JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on November 02, 2019, 08:59:14 PM
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Start with the statements on her obviously concocted and convoluted sworn affidavit....
First ..she states that a man ducked into the theater as the police drove by.
Second..Postal said that her boss [John Callahan] jumped into his car and chases the police ???
I have noted in the past that it was never reported that Mr Callahan ever returned to his theater that was invaded by law enforcement authorities from all over Dallas. Does that strike anyone else as odd? At least extremely curious? What ever happened to Mr Callahan?
Third...back to Julia--As she stepped to the curb [by the way not telling Mr Callahan that a man just sneaked into his theater] she "turned around and saw Johnny Brewer" [who she apparently knew] who asked "did she sell that man a ticket" to which she replied "what man?" ::)
Well, by golly---Brewere would go look for him.
How long would it have taken for Brewer [who seemed more concerned about the sneaker-in than anyone else] to have gone in and searched around for this guy and come back out to give a didn't see him report to Postal?
Next..the individual that Postal mused earlier "what man" becomes a likely fugitive she decided :-\
Further...Julia takes charge and has Warren Burroughs [an usher or THE usher?] and Brewer re-enter the theater and do a thorough search this time. How long would this have taken? Brewer returns and reports that "he just wasn't there" :(
Taking absolute command, Postal orders Brewer and Warren to guard the exits...she would call the cops. She calls the police and "some woman answers" but then..disregarding this woman's gender equality, Postal wants to speak to an "officer". Amazing that over the probable hundreds of calls going into the police switchboard at the time she got through anyway. Maybe she had a hotline 8) This time it's definite...her subject is on the run. He ducked in! Why would the officer ask "did he buy a ticket?" Who buys a ticket and then sneaks in? Maybe he vanished after this. No her "woman's intuition" told her he was still there. She "called the projectionist" [I didn't get his name...did anyone?]
Mrs Postal said that she gave the officer a description of this man that she didn't see. She said that "in a minute or two" officers came in-- motorcycle officers...squad car officers...plain clothes officers...carrying rifles and shotguns. Gee that was fast :o
Strange but Julia didn't mention that the cops would show her this guy they nabbed and ask her "is this your guy?"
They had their man...call it cops intuition ;D
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/1/
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/3/
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Start with the statements on her obviously concocted and convoluted sworn affidavit....
First ..she states that a man ducked into the theater as the police drove by.
Second..Postal said that her boss [John Callahan] jumped into his car and chases the police ???
I have noted in the past that it was never reported that Mr Callahan ever returned to his theater that was invaded by law enforcement authorities from all over Dallas. Does that strike anyone else as odd? At least extremely curious? What ever happened to Mr Callahan?
Third...back to Julia--As she stepped to the curb [by the way not telling Mr Callahan that a man just sneaked into his theater] she "turned around and saw Johnny Brewer" [who she apparently knew] who asked "did she sell that man a ticket" to which she replied "what man?" ::)
Well, by golly---Brewere would go look for him.
How long would it have taken for Brewer [who seemed more concerned about the sneaker-in than anyone else] to have gone in and searched around for this guy and come back out to give a didn't see him report to Postal?
Next..the individual that Postal mused earlier "what man" becomes a likely fugitive she decided :-\
Further...Julia takes charge and has Warren Burroughs [an usher or THE usher?] and Brewer re-enter the theater and do a thorough search this time. How long would this have taken? Brewer returns and reports that "he just wasn't there" :(
Taking absolute command, Postal orders Brewer and Warren to guard the exits...she would call the cops. She calls the police and "some woman answers" but then..disregarding this woman's gender equality, Postal wants to speak to an "officer". Amazing that over the probable hundreds of calls going into the police switchboard at the time she got through anyway. Maybe she had a hotline 8) This time it's definite...her subject is on the run. He ducked in! Why would the officer ask "did he buy a ticket?" Who buys a ticket and then sneaks in? Maybe he vanished after this. No her "woman's intuition" told her he was still there. She "called the projectionist" [I didn't get his name...did anyone?]
Mrs Postal said that she gave the officer a description of this man that she didn't see. She said that "in a minute or two" officers came in-- motorcycle officers...squad car officers...plain clothes officers...carrying rifles and shotguns. Gee that was fast :o
Strange but Julia didn't mention that the cops would show her this guy they nabbed and ask her "is this your guy?"
They had their man...call it cops intuition ;D
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/1/
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/3/
Warren Burroughs and Brewer re-enter the theater and do a thorough search this time. Brewer returns and reports that "he just wasn't there"
Is this a fact..... Did Brewer report that the man he was looking for " Just wasn't there" If that's true.... he must have seen Lee Oswald, and didn't recognize him as the man who he saw sneak into the theater. IOW....Lee was NOT the man he saw earlier window shopping at his shoe store.
Good Job . Jerry!
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Then on to Mrs Postal's contrived testimony before the Commission...
Mr. BALL. Now, did many people go into the theatre from the time you opened at the box office until about 1:15 or so?
Mrs. POSTAL. Some.
Mr. BALL. How many? Can you give me an estimate?
Mrs. POSTAL. I believe 24.
Mr. BALL. Twenty-four?
Mrs. POSTAL. Fourteen or twenty-four. I believe it was 24. Everything was happening so fast.
Mr. BALL. You had sold about that many tickets?
Mrs. POSTAL. That's right.
There should have been an accurate ticket inventory. As far as patrons go...who actually keeps their ticket stubs?
Why did Ball need to know about tickets sold--- "until 1:15"? Why not until 1:30 or before the boss left disappeared?
Mr. BALL. Now, did you see anybody go in the theatre well, did you see any activity on the street?
Mrs. POSTAL. Now, yes, sir; just about the time we opened, my employer had stayed and took the tickets because we change pictures on Thursday and want to do anything, he----and about this time I heard the sirens----police was racing back and forth.
Ball failed to clarify that conflicting statement.
Mr. BALL. Yes; I have seen the theatre.
Mrs. POSTAL. You have? Well, he was coming from east going west. In other words, he ducked right in.
Mr. BALL. Ducked in, what do you mean? He had come around the corner----
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; and when the sirens went by he had a panicked look on his face, and he ducked in.
...
Mr. BALL. Now, as the car went by, you say the man ducked in, had you seen him before the car went by, the police went by?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; I was looking up, as I say, when the cars passed, as you know, they make a tremendous noise, and he ducked in as my boss went that way to get in his car.
Mr. BALL. Who is your boss?
Mrs. POSTAL. Mr. John A. Callahan.
Mr. BALL. Where did you say he was?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; I say, they bypassed each other, actually, the man ducked in this way and my employer went that-a-way, to get in his car.
Mr. BALL. When you say "ducked in," you mean he entered the door from the street?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; just ducked into the other----into the outer part of it.
Mr. BALL. I see, out in the open space?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes, sir; just right around the corner.
Mr. BALL. Just right around the corner?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And your boss passed him, did he?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; they went----one came one way, and one went the other way just at the same time.
Either this guy sneaked in ..panic stricken or not! I would understand that "he ducked in" means that he opened the door of the theater and ...ducked in.
Johnny Brewer could not see the doors of the theater from his position so how would he know if someone went in?
Below is the Texas Theater as it was in Nov. 1963--------------
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/bd/68/2dbd68659d2305edbab2dade6d14e0e4.jpg)
The ticket booth provided a complete view of the foyer and entrance. Johnny Brewer's position according to his testimony placed him about the rear fender of the car.
Mr. BALL. And you didn't see him actually enter the theatre then?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You hadn't seen him go by you?
Mrs. POSTAL. I knew he didn't go by me, because I was facing west, and Johnny, he had come up from east which meant he didn't go back that way. He had come from east going west.
.....................................................................................
Mr. BALL. Did you ask Butch Burroughs if he had seen him?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; I told Johnny this, don't tell him, because he is an excitable person, and just have him, you know, go with you and examine the exits and check real good, so, he came back and said he hadn't seen anything although, he had heard a seat pop up like somebody getting out, but there was nobody around that area, so, I told Johnny about the fact that the President had been assassinated. "I don't know if this is the man they want," I said, "in there, but he is running from them for some reason," and I said "I am going to call the police, and you and Butch go get on each of the exit doors and stay there."
Does this mean that Brewer is to take Warren Burroughs to go and look for someone but don't tell him that they are looking for someone because he is very excitable? ::)
Mrs Postal con't. So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason." And he wanted to know why, and told him because every time the sirens go by he would duck and he wanted to know----well, if he fits the description is what he says. I said, "Let me tell you what he looks like and you take it from there." And explained that he had on this brown sports shirt and I couldn't tell you what design it was, and medium height, ruddy looking to me, and he said, "Thank you," and I called the operator and asked him to look through the little hole .......
Was the police looking for a man wearing a 'brown sport shirt'?
By "the operator" I guess she meant the projectionist who I guess was hiding all this time.
Again...was the projectionist ever identified and again what ever became of the manager-Mr John Callahan?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/postal.htm
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Johnny Brewer's position according to his testimony placed him about the rear fender of the car.
No, Brewer was still in front of his shoe store when the man turned the corner into the recessed entryway of the theater. He was way up the street (Brewer estimated 50 or 60 yards).
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Then on to Mrs Postal's contrived testimony before the Commission...There should have been an accurate ticket inventory. As far as patrons go...who actually keeps their ticket stubs?
Why did Ball need to know about tickets sold--- "until 1:15"? Why not until 1:30 or before the boss left disappeared? Ball failed to clarify that conflicting statement.Either this guy sneaked in ..panic stricken or not! I would understand that "he ducked in" means that he opened the door of the theater and ...ducked in.
Johnny Brewer could not see the doors of the theater from his position so how would he know if someone went in?
Below is the Texas Theater as it was in Nov. 1963--------------
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/bd/68/2dbd68659d2305edbab2dade6d14e0e4.jpg)
The ticket booth provided a complete view of the foyer and entrance. Johnny Brewer's position according to his testimony placed him about the rear fender of the car. Does this mean that Brewer is to take Warren Burroughs to go and look for someone but don't tell him that they are looking for someone because he is very excitable? ::)Was the police looking for a man wearing a 'brown sport shirt'?
By "the operator" I guess she meant the projectionist who I guess was hiding all this time.
Again...was the projectionist ever identified and again what ever became of the manager-Mr John Callahan?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/postal.htm
Mrs. POSTAL. You have? Well, he was coming from east going west. In other words, he ducked right in.
Mr. BALL. Ducked in, what do you mean? He had come around the corner----
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; and when the sirens went by he had a panicked look on his face, and he ducked in.
Didn't Brewer ask her if she saw the guy who ducked into the theater?...And didn't she tell him that she had not seen the guy.
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/juliapostal.gif)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/juliapostal1.gif)
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No, Brewer was still in front of his shoe store when the man turned the corner into the recessed entryway of the theater. He was way up the street (Brewer estimated 50 or 60 yards).
I was rather going by his affidavit..." I followed the man up the street and he went into the theater. I asked the girl if she had sold the man a ticket and she replied that she did not think so, that she had been listening to the radio and did not remember."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer1.htm
Anyway you shake it...it doesn't bake ::) Notice that the 'faulty memory' developed into 'your guy is here'.
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According to the last lines of her testimony [posted above] Postal stated that she did not know about a policeman getting shot until after Oswald was arrested. Earlier [if one reads] she stated that she was listening to her transistor radio to KLIF. Johnny Brewer was also listening [and intently heard about the cop]...according to his testimony/affidavit to KLIF. Very odd that they didn't hear the same information or mutually communicate this news :-\
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Besides, there's no sign of a announcement of a cop's shooting prior to Oswald's arrest in the existing KLIF recordings.
https://archive.org/details/KennedyAssassination-Klif-amDallas-FridayNovember221963 (https://archive.org/details/KennedyAssassination-Klif-amDallas-FridayNovember221963)
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.... appeared Johnny Calvin Brewer w/m/22 of 512 N. Lancaster, Apt. 102, WH1 4793. Bus: 213 W. Jefferson, Hardy Shoe Store
I had heard on the radio that the President had been shot, also that a policeman had been shot in Oak Cliff. About 1:30 pm I saw a man standing in the lobby of the shoe store. This man was wearing a brown sport shirt.------ The reason I noticed the man in front of the store was because he acted so nervous, and I thought at the time he might be the man that had shot the policeman. /s/ Johnny C. Brewer
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 6 DAY OF December A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer1.htm
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According to the last lines of her testimony [posted above] Postal stated that she did not know about a policeman getting shot until after Oswald was arrested. Earlier [if one reads] she stated that she was listening to her transistor radio to KLIF. Johnny Brewer was also listening [and intently heard about the cop]...according to his testimony/affidavit to KLIF. Very odd that they didn't hear the same information or mutually communicate this news :-\
Where did Brewer state in his affidavit or testimony that he was listening to KLIF? I don't see it.
Affidavit: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer1.htm
Testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm
The odd thing to me is that Lee Oswald showed no interest in what happened to the president - he was apparently shot right outside the building where he worked - that he left the building without trying to find out what happened, and he never showed at any time the slightest interest in finding out what happened to the president.
For a political person like Oswald that's pretty odd behavior.
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Besides, there's no sign of a announcement of a cop's shooting prior to Oswald's arrest in the existing KLIF recordings.
https://archive.org/details/KennedyAssassination-Klif-amDallas-FridayNovember221963 (https://archive.org/details/KennedyAssassination-Klif-amDallas-FridayNovember221963)
On part 2 --the bulletin comes at 2:47 minutes/secs into the recording--"THREE shots ..reportedly... were fired at the motorcade...." I've always wondered who provided that exact number so quickly. The recording actually starts at 12:37PM [according to the time stamp at 1:17 min/sec] At or before and after 1:00PM it is repeatedly reported that police are looking for just one guy with a description that could fit any 5000 guys in the general downtown vicinity. 36:45 min/sec a guy @Field and Elm was arrested...I wonder what what was up there? @42:37 min/sec "Dallas Police reported that a Secret Service agent had been killed". @52:15 min/sec---erroneously reported that Vice President Johnson was shot. @55:18 min/sec a report came in that ..."indications now are that more than one assailant was involved". What were those 'indications'?
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Where did Brewer state in his affidavit or testimony that he was listening to KLIF? I don't see it.
On Nov 22 1963 everybody was listening to KLIF...even me. They reported the shooting of the policeman at 1:55PM [or 18 minutes into part 3.] This would have been after Oswald was arrested anyway which makes Brewer a liar whether he was listening to KLIF or Radio Moscow.
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On Nov 22 1963 everybody was listening to KLIF...even me.
Everybody? There was only one radio station in Dallas?
JohnM
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They had their man...call it cops intuition ;D
If a man punches a cop for no reason and then produces a revolver and attempts to kill a Police Officer, how does "intuition" figure into the cops behaviour?
JohnM
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As far as I know, nobody has ever located any radio broadcast that mentioned Tippit's shooting before 1:30. Even Dale Myers acknowledged that.
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If a man punches a cop for no reason and then produces a revolver and attempts to kill a Police Officer,
Yeah, but since nobody actually did that, what's the point of this hypothetical?
how does "intuition" figure into the cops behaviour?
Oswald was searched, beaten up, and arrested for murder with no probable cause.
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Yeah, but since nobody actually did that, what's the point of this hypothetical?
Oswald was searched, beaten up, and arrested for murder with no probable cause.
John,
LOL!
-- MWT ;)
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Yeah, but since nobody actually did that, what's the point of this hypothetical?
Oswald was searched, beaten up, and arrested for murder with no probable cause.
but since nobody actually did that
Yawn!
Oswald was searched, beaten up, and arrested for murder with no probable cause.
As soon as you punch a cop, you give up all your rights.
JohnM
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As far as I know, nobody has ever located any radio broadcast that mentioned Tippit's shooting before 1:30. Even Dale Myers acknowledged that.
So now you trust Dale Myers?, I'm sure he and his 3D model of Dealey Plaza will be most pleased! Thumb1:
JohnM
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Made sure they got pictures of the scratches on McD's face on 11/22/63.
Took em till 12/03/63 to get their stories straight.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mcdonaldsface.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mcdonaldstory1.gif)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mcdonaldstory2.gif)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mcdonaldstory.gif)
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If a man punches a cop for no reason and then produces a revolver and attempts to kill a Police Officer, how does "intuition" figure into the cops behaviour?
Well...your intuition is absolutely worthless. "I had my gun drawn...I was ready for trouble" :DEverybody? There was only one radio station in Dallas?
No but no one listened to them not that day. In fact KRLD news radio didn't report the Tippit shooting until after 2PM...Same with WBAP not only that but no one reported the policeman dead until nearly 2:30 PM.
As soon as you punch a cop, you give up all your rights.
Maybe in your country. Looks like Mytton is against the ropes again.
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/liveroundsa.jpg)
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Yawn!
As soon as you punch a cop, you give up all your rights.
Not in this country. Or I doubt even in Australia.
Also why would anybody take the word of serial embellisher, Nick McDonald?
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...Brewer, a manager at a shoe store located about 90 steps from the Oak Cliff neighborhood theater, was listening to news reports about the president's assassination when he heard reports that a Dallas police officer, J.D. Tippit, had just been killed a few blocks away. A man whose behavior seemed suspicious then walked into the foyer of the shoe store. Brewer said the man stared at the display in the window and acted scared as police cars with blaring sirens raced by.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/johnny-calvin-brewer-man-helped-catch-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald-honored-dallas-police-article-1.981586
See how the story went? Brewer was so involved with claims of his heroism that the facts didn't matter. Brewer 'helped catch' no one. Tippit wasn't reported dead on the radio until 2:30PM or so.
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Not in this country. Or I doubt even in Australia.
Also why would anybody take the word of serial embellisher, Nick McDonald?
Not in this country. Or I doubt even in Australia.
Go and punch a cop in the face and let's see what happens.
Also why would anybody take the word of serial embellisher, Nick McDonald?
An officer approached him and he hit the officer and knocked him back.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer1.htm
JohnM
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Well...your intuition is absolutely worthless. "I had my gun drawn...I was ready for trouble" :D No but no one listened to them not that day. In fact KRLD news radio didn't report the Tippit shooting until after 2PM...Same with WBAP not only that but no one reported the policeman dead until nearly 2:30 PM.
Maybe in your country. Looks like Mytton is against the ropes again.
Well...your intuition is absolutely worthless. "I had my gun drawn...I was ready for trouble"
Are you saying McDonald had his gun drawn?
No but no one listened to them not that day.
On a scale of 1 to 10 of self serving assumptions, that's an 11!
Maybe in your country. Looks like Mytton is against the ropes again.
So in your country, you can punch a cop and he usually says "thanks"?
JohnM
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Mr. HUTSON. I saw this person stand up, and McDonald and him became engaged in a struggle.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see who hit whom first?
Mr. HUTSON. No.
Mr. BELIN. You are shaking your head, no.
Mr. HUTSON. No, I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Okay.
Mr. HUTSON. The lights were down. The lights were on in the theatre, but it was dark.
Hutson was in the next row of seats. Brewer was on the stage by the back door.
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute. I can't follow you when you say it was "this way," sir. You told me that this officer asked Oswald to stand up?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did he stand up?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL - Then did he put his hand some place on Oswald?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; along about
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess about his hips.
Mr. BALL - Then what did Oswald do?
Mr. APPLIN - He took a right-hand swing at him.
Mr. BALL - What did the officer do?
Mr. APPLIN - The officer grabbed him then.
"Took a swing", not punched. And if he did take a swing it was in self defense, after he was assaulted by an officer who had no right to touch him.
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So in your country, you can punch a cop and he usually says "thanks"?
You said you "give up all your rights". Perhaps you're confused about what "rights" means.
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You said you "give up all your rights". Perhaps you're confused about what "rights" means.
Why would any rational person engage this Mytton cretin in a debate? Or even give him the time of day....
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Are you saying McDonald had his gun drawn?
He did...open your eyes....Where have you been?
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f58/19/52/40/87/tm/housto12.jpg)
I was crouching low and holding my gun in case any trouble came I wanted to be ready for it.
M.N. McDonald
Questions...McDonald wasn't the first cop there. Why did the other cops wait for him to show up before the big move was made? Who was the mysterious tipster?
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Why would any rational person engage this Mytton cretin in a debate? Or even give him the time of day....
We are to pray for those who are misled.
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He did...open your eyes....Where have you been?
Questions...McDonald wasn't the first cop there. Why did the other cops wait for him to show up before the big move was made? Who was the mysterious tipster?
I don’t know, but Lyin’ Nick says it was someone sitting near the front. That wouldn’t have been Brewer.
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He did...open your eyes....Where have you been?
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f58/19/52/40/87/tm/housto12.jpg)
M.N. McDonald
You said he had his gun drawn?
This cop has his hand on his gun.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/14/15672773_b76ec2b7a3_z.jpg)
This cop has his gun drawn
(https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/original_/5/d/5d982f13-f3a2-4736-8c51-6816a0b21d0e/B822574236Z.1_20160622065809_000_G1F1MMVFJ.1_Gallery.jpg)
Btw Jerry, if the cops were gunning for Oswald the cops had the perfect opportunity to kill Oswald in a dark theater but instead they went out of their way to keep him alive so they could let him have a midnight conference in front of the worlds media. Some conspiracy.
JohnM
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"Took a swing", not punched.
Hilarious, your desperation reeks!
JohnM
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Why would any rational person engage this Mytton cretin in a debate? Or even give him the time of day....
Is that a promise?
JohnM
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Hilarious, your desperation reeks!
What’s reeks is McDonald inventing a punch in order to desperately excuse his police brutality.
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"An assault can be committed without a battery and battery can occur without an assault preceding it. For example, swinging at someone and missing is an assault but not a battery"
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/tortpersonalinjury/lawarticle-194/intentional-torts.aspx
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What’s reeks is McDonald inventing a punch in order to desperately excuse his police brutality.
Yet he let Oswald live, go figure.
JohnM
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You said he had his gun drawn?
You are swinging and missing. I wasn't there and neither were you.
I was crouching low and holding my gun in case any trouble came
How can someone be 'holding' their gun if they don't 'draw' it first? You are flustered. Hence you start posting pictures that prove nothing.
You start asking questions instead of answering them. Typical chronic Mytton-itus. Dreadful.
BTW McDonald seemed like a Dilbert Fudd. He blew his assignment. So they had to give their friend Jack a call.
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You are swinging and missing. I wasn't there and neither were you.How can someone be 'holding' their gun if they don't 'draw' it first? You are flustered. Hence you start posting pictures that prove nothing.
You start asking questions instead of answering them. Typical chronic Mytton-itus. Dreadful.
BTW McDonald seemed like a Dilbert Fudd. He blew his assignment. So they had to give their friend Jack a call.
You people can't seem to make up your minds, why didn't "Dilbert Fudd" and his Keystone Kops kill Oswald when they had the perfect opportunity?
But two days later after Oswald had access to the media, they suddenly decide Oswald must die?
And how did Postal and Brewer become involved and why, another question that will never receive an answer, it seems that everyone but Oswald was involved up to their eyeballs.
Threads like this which make pointless unprovable accusations shows just how stagnated and worthless the conspiracy movement has become.
JohnM
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What’s reeks is McDonald inventing a punch in order to desperately excuse his police brutality.
John,
There must have been police brutality because that's what a self-described Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald, yelled out, right?
-- MWT ;)
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Threads like this which make pointless unprovable accusations shows just how stagnated and worthless......
Indeed...I noticed the stagnation of the thread begin when you started posting :D
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Indeed...I noticed the stagnation of the thread begin when you started posting :D
I noticed you edited out the stuff that you couldn't deal with, typical.
But let's go there again, you seem to be claiming that this was all pre-meditated by the Police yet they let Oswald live and for some reason known only to yourselves Postal and Brewer became involved, how and why?
JohnM
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I noticed you edited out the stuff that you couldn't deal with, typical.
What 'stuff'? Your maniacal nonsense?
Postal and Brewer became involved, how and why?
How should I know? I just read their garbage that you might call 'testimony' and didn't believe it for the points I noted.
Go back and read it...start at the first post. Think about it.. :'(...no don't do that now--try. Brewer stated that he heard that the cop got shot over the radio. I don't believe it because the Oak Cliff shooting was not reported on the radio until after the police had arrested Oswald. Supposedly anyway he thinks this guy that he saw was involved. He goes in after him. Seriously? Someone that has a pistol and had gunned down a cop [supposedly] and what is Brewer going to do? Go find him and kick his ass?
-
What 'stuff'? Your maniacal nonsense?
How should I know? I just read their garbage that you might call 'testimony' and didn't believe it for the points I noted.
Go back and read it...start at the first post. Think about it.. :'(...no don't do that now--try. Brewer stated that he heard that the cop got shot over the radio. I don't believe it because the Oak Cliff shooting was not reported on the radio until after the police had arrested Oswald. Supposedly anyway he thinks this guy that he saw was involved. He goes in after him. Seriously? Someone that has a pistol and had gunned down a cop [supposedly] and what is Brewer going to do? Go find him and kick his ass?
How should I know?
Don't they need some sort of motivation but why worry about that because it's just fun to kick a Hero! Sicko.
I just read their garbage that you might call 'testimony' and didn't believe it for the points I noted.
I read ALL the testimony and found them to be as honest as they could be, you want to crucify these overwhelmed people because of some flaw that you think you see? You want a conspiracy so bad that you're seeing ghosts, step back and figure out where all your evidence goes, k?
Go back and read it...start at the first post.
No, I went back further and read the original testimony and as I said they sound like they were simply a little overwhelmed, and understandably, the President was shot, a cop was shot near by, the killer was there, there was a load of Police, a huge crowd outside etc etc, a lot to digest.
Think about it.. :'(...no don't do that now--try.
I don't need your pissweak Caprio level analysis.
Brewer stated that he heard that the cop got shot over the radio. I don't believe it because the Oak Cliff shooting was not reported on the radio until after the police had arrested Oswald.
Again we don't know because we don't know what radio station that Brewer was listening to but speculate away. Also consider that Kennedy's shooting was all over the radio and Brewer saw someone who was definitely suspicious and when added to Postals observations, they rang the cops and the cops knowing that Tippit was shot nearby decided to investigate because that's what they do. And as for Brewer he also had a lot to comprehend and if his timeline about Tippit on the radio was in fact a little out, then give the guy a break, he was trying to remember hundreds of little details
Supposedly anyway he thinks this guy that he saw was involved.
This is pretty much how Brewer describes Oswald's highly incriminating actions, what would have you done? Be a Hero or be a Zero?
(https://i.postimg.cc/k4KLppxm/Oswald-Brewer.gif)
Seriously? Someone that has a pistol and had gunned down a cop [supposedly] and what is Brewer going to do? Go find him and kick his ass?
People ran up the grassy knoll to supposedly kick ass, didn't they?
JohnM
-
People ran up the grassy knoll to supposedly kick ass, didn't they?
So you do acknowledge there were assailants behind the Grassy Knoll...He sees the light friends!
-
"An assault can be committed without a battery and battery can occur without an assault preceding it. For example, swinging at someone and missing is an assault but not a battery"
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/tortpersonalinjury/lawarticle-194/intentional-torts.aspx
Thanks for the helpful reference to Canadian law. But in the Texas Penal Code, there is no “battery”. It’s all assault.
-
People ran up the grassy knoll to supposedly kick ass, didn't they?
The people who ran up the grassy knoll actually saw a crime committed.
-
There must have been police brutality because that's what a self-described Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald, yelled out, right?
What the hell does being a Marxist have to do with anything?
Here's your evidence of police brutality.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/oswald-cut.jpg)
Mr. McDONALD - Yes. I went at him with this hand, and I believe I struck him on the face, but I don't know where.
. . .
Mr. BALL - What did he say about police brutality?
Mr. McDONALD - One thing, "Don't hit me any more." I remember that.
Mr. BALL - Did somebody hit him?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; I guess they did.
Mr. BALL - Who hit him, do you know?
Mr. McDONALD - No, sir; I don't, other than myself.
Mr. BALL - You know you hit him?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
-------
Mr. BALL - Did you see any officers strike him?
Mr. APPLIN - I seen one strike him with a shotgun.
Mr. BALL - How did he do it?
Mr. APPLIN - He grabbed the muzzle of the gun and drawed it back and swung and hit him in the back.
Mr. BALL - With what?
Mr. APPLIN - With the butt end of the gun.
Mr. BALL - Looked like a hard blow?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; it--I guess-it was. You could--yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And he struck Oswald where?
Mr. APPLIN - In the back.
Mr. BALL - What part of the back?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, somewheres along in the middle of the back, somewheres.
Mr. BALL - With the butt end of a shotgun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
-
The people who ran up the grassy knoll actually saw a crime committed.
John,
Interesting usage of the passive voice.
Question: Did they see anyone commit the criminal act?
-- MWT ;)
-
What the hell does being a Marxist have to do with anything?
Here's your evidence of police brutality.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/oswald-cut.jpg)
Mr. McDONALD - Yes. I went at him with this hand, and I believe I struck him on the face, but I don't know where.
. . .
Mr. BALL - What did he say about police brutality?
Mr. McDONALD - One thing, "Don't hit me any more." I remember that.
Mr. BALL - Did somebody hit him?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; I guess they did.
Mr. BALL - Who hit him, do you know?
Mr. McDONALD - No, sir; I don't, other than myself.
Mr. BALL - You know you hit him?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
-------
Mr. BALL - Did you see any officers strike him?
Mr. APPLIN - I seen one strike him with a shotgun.
Mr. BALL - How did he do it?
Mr. APPLIN - He grabbed the muzzle of the gun and drawed it back and swung and hit him in the back.
Mr. BALL - With what?
Mr. APPLIN - With the butt end of the gun.
Mr. BALL - Looked like a hard blow?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; it--I guess-it was. You could--yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And he struck Oswald where?
Mr. APPLIN - In the back.
Mr. BALL - What part of the back?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, somewheres along in the middle of the back, somewheres.
Mr. BALL - With the butt end of a shotgun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Stupid cops.
They were supposed to kill him!
-
Stupid cops.
They were supposed to kill him!
Says who?
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Stupid cops. They were supposed to kill him!
Says who? -- John Iacoletti, 11/07/19
Gasp ... that's what Roger Stone, Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum told me!
.....
The people who ran up the grassy knoll actually saw a crime committed.
John,
Interesting usage of the passive voice.
Question: Did they see anyone commit the criminal act?
-- MWT ;)
-
On Nov 22 1963 everybody was listening to KLIF...even me. They reported the shooting of the policeman at 1:55PM [or 18 minutes into part 3.] This would have been after Oswald was arrested anyway which makes Brewer a liar whether he was listening to KLIF or Radio Moscow.
Nobody listened to other stations? And no other station made an announcement about a shooting of an officer?
A report that an officer was shot came across the radio dispatch/communications at about 1:16. I would guess - that's all it is - that many news organizations were listening in to the radio communications and overheard this. In any case, several reporters who were at the TSBD said they heard the announcement over the police radio and rushed to the scene.
I'll offer - and try to find support for it - that a radio announcement of the shooting was broadcast well before 1:55.
From Myer's book on the Tippit shooting: "The exact time that Brewer heard the radio broadcast on the shooting of Office Tippit is not known, although it was very likely broadcast at about 1:31 p.m. over KBOX radio. There were five major radio stations covering the Dallas area - WFAA (570 AM), WPBAP (820 AM), KRLD (1080 AM), KBOX (1480 AM) and KLIF (1190 AM). All of them routinely monitored the Dallas police radio."
Again, you wrote that he stated in his affidavit/testimony about listening to KLIF. Where did he say this? I can't find it.
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Yawn!
As soon as you punch a cop, you give up all your rights.
JohnM
Of course, Well, not all of your rights. He was detained as a suspect in a shooting. Another person was briefly detained for the shooting as well. In fact, Brewer was also briefly detained when police opened the back of the theater.
If these other two individuals pulled a gun out and fought with the police they too would have been brought in. Apparently the view is that Oswald should have been released.
This is silly. The endless excuses for Oswald are just absurd.
-
Lee Bowers saw people standing behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
Railroad workers standing on the triple overpass heard shots and and saw smoke coming from the grassy knoll fence line.
The HSCA sound tests on the open mike police recording determined there was at least one shot from the approximate spot on the knoll fence line indicated by the railroad workers.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/Altgens7crop_1.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/fencebell.jpg)
-
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Decker_Ex_5323.pdf
DECKER EXHIBIT No. 5323
-snip-
"As I heard the
first retort, I looked back over my shoulder and saw
what appeared to me to be a spray of water come out of
the rear seat of the President's car . At this same
moment, Mr . Lawson said, "Let's get out of here and
get to the nearest hospital". When I heard the shots
I noted motorcycle officers coming off their cycles
and running up the embankment on Dealey Plaza."
-snip-
--------------------------
Before me,the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November 23, 1963
personally appeared Hugh William Betzner, Jr. Address 5922 Velasco, Dallas
Age 22
-snip-
"Then the President's car sped on
under the underpass . Police and a lot of spectators started running up
the hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood . I
assumed that that was where the shot was fired from at that time . I kept
watching the crowd."
-snip-
--------------------------
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November 22, l963
personally appeared S . M. Holland Address 1119 Lucille, Irvin
-snip-
"I looked over toward the arcade and trees and saw a puff of
smoke come from the trees and I heard three more shots after the first
Shot but that was the only puff of smoke I saw . I immediately ran around
to where I could see behind the arcade and did not see anyone running
from there . But the puff of smoke I saw definitely came from behind
the arcade through the trees."
-snip-
--------------------------
Before me, the undersigned authority. on this the 22nd day of November 23, 1963
personally appeared William Eugene Newman
-snip-
"Then the car sped away and
everybody in that area had run upon top of that little mound . I thought the
shots had come from the garden directly behind me, that was on an elevation
from where I was as I was right on the curb. I do not recall looking toward
the Texas School Book Depository . I looked back in the vacinity of the Garden."
-snip-
-----------------------------------------
Before me, the undersigned authority. on this the 22nd day of November 1963
petsonally appeared Mr J.C. Price Address 9602 Astor, Dallas
"This day at about 1235 PM I was on the roof of the Termaniel Annex Bldg on the
NE Corner when the presidential Motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on
Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded West on Elm and was
just a short distance from the Tripple underpass, when I saw Gov Connelly
slump over . I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my
view under the underpass . There was a volley of shots, I think five and then
much later, maybe as much as five minutes later another one . I saw one man
run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots.
This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki colored trousers . His hair
appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 25 yrs of
age. He had something in his hand."
-snip-
----------------------------------------
Before me. the undersigned Authority, on this the 23rd day of November 1963
personally appeared Malcolm Summers.
"Yesterday, November 22, 1963, I was standing on the terrace of the
small park on Elm Street to watch the President's motorcade . The
President's car had just come up in front of me when I heard a shot
and aaw the President slump down in the car and beard Mrs . Kennedy
say, "Oh, no" ., then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I
realized these were shots . Then all of the people started running
up the terrace away from the President's car and I got up and started
running also, not realizing what had happened . In just a few moments
the President's car sped off and everybody was just running around
towards the railroad tracks and I knew that they had somebody trapped
up there."
-snip-
--------------------------------
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION . REPORT
Name of Complainant
PRESIDENT JOHN F . KENNEDY
ASSASSINATION
-snip-
"I ran around the Corner and directly across the street across the Dealy
Plaza to the Elm street side of the triple underpass . As we were
running across the street, we could see the presidential car pulling away
under the underpass and we cintinued on to the immediate area. Some stopped
to talk to people standing there as there were a number of women who
were hysterical. We could not get any information except that the
President had been shot, Several of the other officers in the group ran
on into the freight yards."
-snip-
----------------------------
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Officer A . D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office .
Ralph Walters
"I heard a retort and immediately recognized it as the sound of a rifle. I started running around the corner where I knew the
President's car should be and in a matter of a few seconds heard a second shot and then a third shot, I, along with other
officers who had been standing near me, all started running and I rushed towards the park and saw people running towards
the railroad yards beyond Elm street..."
-snip-
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Decker_Ex_5323.pdf
-
From Myer's book on the Tippit shooting: "The exact time that Brewer heard the radio broadcast on the shooting of Office Tippit is not known, although it was very likely broadcast at about 1:31 p.m. over KBOX radio.
The only reason Myers considers this "likely" is because KBOX is the only major station with no existing recordings of what was broadcast that day.
Again, you wrote that he stated in his affidavit/testimony about listening to KLIF. Where did he say this? I can't find it.
This is all I could find:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16235#relPageId=9&tab=page (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16235#relPageId=9&tab=page)
Griggs: I know this is a crazy question but is there any way of recalling which programme, which station, you were listening to?
Brewer: A Dallas station. I have a feeling it may have been KLIF. That would be one of the stations that I would ordinarily be listening to, but I honestly don't know. It was just the normal run of the motorcade and all of a sudden you hear all the commotion and then you hear something about shots being fired and then - you know.
Griggs: So it was actually being broadcast live. I see. What about Tippit's murder?
Brewer: I also - now that was just a few blocks away. But I heard there was a shooting in the Oak Cliff area - now they didn't say anything about who it was. I don't recall that it was said that there was a policeman down, or what, but I do recall hearing something about a shooting in the Oak Cliff area. And just very shortly after that, the sirens of the cars all converging on Zangs and Jefferson or just going towards it.
-
Of course, he was detained as a suspect in a shooting. Another person was briefly detained for the shooting as well. In fact, Brewer was also briefly detained when police opened the back of the theater.
They would have to have had probable cause to detain somebody as a suspect in a shooting. Looking funny to a shoe salesman is not probable cause of a murder having been committed.
If these other two individuals pulled a gun out and fought with the police they too would have been brought in. Apparently the view is that Oswald should have been released.
Oswald was arrested for murder, not for pulling a gun out and fighting with police.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/lho-arrest-report.png)
Note that the boxes for "resisted" and "fought" are not checked. And the box for "officer(s) injured" was not checked.
-
Lee Bowers saw people standing behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
Railroad workers standing on the triple overpass heard shots and and saw smoke coming from the grassy knoll fence line.
The HSCA sound tests on the open mike police recording determined there was at least one shot from the approximate spot on the knoll fence line indicated by the railroad workers.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/Altgens7crop_1.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/fencebell.jpg)
If so, then I guess we now know what Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, Miguel Casas Saez, and Igor Vaganov were doing that day.
-- MWT ;)
-
Again, you wrote that he stated in his affidavit/testimony about listening to KLIF. Where did he say this? I can't find it.
I'll offer - and try to find support for it - that a radio announcement of the shooting was broadcast well before 1:55.
If it was up your backside could you find it? Here I'll help you out....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUF_mQgKpqDBPDWF-pHRTMgg
AGAIN listening to the KLIF broadcast the first announcement came at 1:55PM CST that a policeman had been SHOT [did not say killed]
It was reported that Brewer heard the cop had been killed @1:30
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/johnny-calvin-brewer-man-helped-catch-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald-honored-dallas-police-article-1.981586
-
Lee Bowers saw people standing behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
Railroad workers standing on the triple overpass heard shots and and saw smoke coming from the grassy knoll fence line.
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/med_res/)
-
It was reported that Brewer heard the cop had been killed @1:30
It was announced at 1:37 PM CST that the president had died. Announced by WBAP radio at 1:56 that a Dallas policeman had been shot and killed.
I will let whoever wants to check the math.
-
KBOX AM RADIO reported the death of a Dallas patrolman as well as a Secret Service man at 1:52 PM CST...
-
Thanks for the helpful reference to Canadian law. But in the Texas Penal Code, there is no “battery”. It’s all assault.
Cool. But note that I underlined 'swinging at someone and missing is an assault'
If I was addressing 'battery' I would included that the underline.
You seemed to be dismissing Oswald's swing as being non-actionable, since he missed..
-
Cool. But note that I underlined 'swinging at someone and missing is an assault'
If I was addressing 'battery' I would included that the underline.
Cool. Your citation of Canadian law would be helpful if the Texas Theater had been in Canada.
Meanwhile, groping somebody’s hips is also assault — even if you’re a cop.
You seemed to be dismissing Oswald's swing as being non-actionable, since he missed..
No, it’s non-actionable because it’s self-defense.
-
Cool. Your citation of Canadian law would be helpful if the Texas Theater had been in Canada.
Meanwhile, groping somebody’s hips is also assault — even if you’re a cop.
No, it’s non-actionable because it’s self-defense.
I once worked with an ex-cop.....He enjoyed talking about his days as a cop. One of the things he told me was; that they would sometimes grab and squeeze a suspect's testicles while going through the suspects pockets. He said that would make the suspect much more cooperative....
-
More on the KBOX clip above @ 42:45 min/sec or around 2:00 PM....
Detective J D Tippit along with his partner M N McDonald [tipped off by an usher at the Texas Theater] fought with a man...believed to be the assassin of [the president]...they bravely entered with guns drawn....two shots were fired.. Tippit fired into the air...[suspect] shot Tippit killing him..the man was arrested and believed to be the prime suspect in the assassination...
Where did that information come from?
-
More on the KBOX clip above @ 42:45 min/sec or around 2:00 PM.... Where did that information come from?
OMG!.... They must have brought Tippit back to life so he could be shot by the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssssswald in the theater.
-
Cool. Your citation of Canadian law would be helpful if the Texas Theater had been in Canada.
>>> Show us where throwing punches at people is any different in Texas
Texas Law_Assault https://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-assault-and-battery-laws.html
Meanwhile, groping somebody’s hips is also assault — even if you’re a cop.
>>> 'Groping' is a term more applicable to Trump. And you're the one reaching here...
No, it’s non-actionable because it’s self-defense.
>>> Resisting arrest is actionable.
-
Detective J D Tippit along with his partner M N McDonald [tipped off by an usher at the Texas Theater] fought with a man...believed to be the assassin of [the president]...they bravely entered with guns drawn....two shots were fired.. Tippit fired into the air...[suspect] shot Tippit killing him..the man was arrested and believed to be the prime suspect in the assassination...
More on the KBOX clip above @ 42:45 min/sec or around 2:00 PM.... Where did that information come from?
At 44:30 min/sec it was reported...--the 25 yr old suspect wanted for shooting J D Tippit at the Texas Theater told police "I killed a president and a cop and all I need is two more----"
-
At 49:10 ..the suspect was declared the assassin by KBOX news...and then completely mis-identifies Lee Harvey Oswald as being 30 yrs old, blonde, 165 lbs, 5' 10'' etc :-\
-
Johnny Brewer got an award for lying...
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2011/11/johnny-calvin-brewer-man-who-helped.html
-
>>> Resisting arrest is actionable.
A) they had no cause to arrest him when they approached him in the theater. Or even cause to search him.
B) you can’t “resist arrest” before you are actually being arrested.
C) the “resisted” box is unmarked on the arrest report.
-
A) they had no cause to arrest him when they approached him in the theater. Or even cause to search him.
B) you can’t “resist arrest” before you are actually being arrested.
C) the “resisted” box is unmarked on the arrest report.
John,
How many people do you figure were involved in setting Oswald up?
Paine, Truly, Campbell, Baker, Reid, Sawyer, Brewer, Postal, McDonald, ...
The list goes on and on, right?
Iirc, you don't believe Oswald owned that rifle or that revolver.
Do you think Fritz "made up" Oswald's saying, "You know how boys are -- they just like to have a gun with them," or words to that effect?
Do you think McDonad scratched his own face, or had someone other than Oswald do it for him?
etc.
erc.
-- MWT ;)
.
-
I think a better question is, how long will Tommy be allowed to troll the forum with his inane loaded questions?
-
I think a better question is, how long will Tommy be allowed to troll the forum with his inane loaded questions?
John,
What's your definition of "a loaded question"?
One that's difficult for you to answer?
Why are those questions so difficult for you to answer?
Regarding the forum, one wonders why you aren't frequently banned for calling another member a liar.
-- MWT ;)
PS What's inane about those questions?
Are you sure you aren't "projecting," again?
Do those questions make you feel uncomfortable?
-
You people can't seem to make up your minds, why didn't "Dilbert Fudd" and his Keystone Kops kill Oswald when they had the perfect opportunity?
But two days later after Oswald had access to the media, they suddenly decide Oswald must die?
And how did Postal and Brewer become involved and why, another question that will never receive an answer, it seems that everyone but Oswald was involved up to their eyeballs.
Threads like this which make pointless unprovable accusations shows just how stagnated and worthless the conspiracy movement has become.
JohnM
This is a textbook example of how conspiracists and Oswald defenders want to examine everyone's behavior except for Oswald's.
As in: What the heck was Oswald doing going to a movie (with a fully loaded revolver and five extra bullets in his pocket?) when the president was just shot - apparently - outside the building where he worked? He had no interest at all in what happened? This was a political person. It's absurd to think that suddenly he became apolitical at 12:30 on November 22, 1963.
But let's not look at why he was at the theater. Let's look at Brewer's behavior. And Postal's. And everyone else. Because if you try to understand Oswald's behavior that leads to the conclusion that he was in flight.
-
Being in a theater means you’re in flight? What were Applin, Gibson, and the pregnant lady fleeing from?
Funny how they didn’t “find” those “five extra bullets in his pocket” until a couple of hours after his arrest.
-
Being in a theater means you’re in flight? What were Applin, Gibson, and the pregnant lady fleeing from?
Funny how they didn’t “find” those “five extra bullets in his pocket” until a couple of hours after his arrest.
Funny how the Police themselves said they failed to search Oswald, when was being honest about your own actions a crime and where does that go?
Oswald was alrady arrested with a loaded weapkn how is 5 bullets going to help the case against Oswald? Do you people ever think through your theories?
JohnM
-
Sure, “Mytton”. They forgot to search the pockets of a murder suspect before putting him in a jail cell.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that it took about 2 hours for the revolver to emerge from Hill’s pocket, the Davis shells to show up, and the extra bullets to be found in Oswald’s pocket.
-
Sure, “Mytton”. They forgot to search the pockets of a murder suspect before putting him in a jail cell.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that it took about 2 hours for the revolver to emerge from Hill’s pocket, the Davis shells to show up, and the extra bullets to be found in Oswald’s pocket.
The only way you know about Oswald's pockets is because the Police said so, why would they plant evidence and dob on themselves at the same time? Isnt honesty the best policy?
Youre obsessed with time, everything doesnt happen instantaneously.
JohnM
-
Being in a theater means you’re in flight? What were Applin, Gibson, and the pregnant lady fleeing from?
Funny how they didn’t “find” those “five extra bullets in his pocket” until a couple of hours after his arrest.
John,
How many people do you figure were in on the conspiracy in one way or another?
The whole Deep State?
-- MWT ;)
-
The only way you know about Oswald's pockets is because the Police said so, why would they plant evidence and dob on themselves at the same time? Isnt honesty the best policy?
Youre obsessed with time, everything doesnt happen instantaneously.
JohnM
Can you believe ?...Mytton asked... "Isnt honesty the best policy?" Mytton is probably the most dishonest poster in this group.
-
I never said anything about a “deep state”.
Yet another inane, loaded question from Graves.
-
I never said anything about a “deep state”.
Yet another inane, loaded question from Graves.
John,
Did I say or even imply that you'd said "Deep State"?
Your overreaction is telling.
-- MWT ;)
-
John,
How many people do you figure were involved in setting Oswald up?
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/Off_Topic.gif)
Thomas----Come on!
-
One key element -- It has been demonstrated [in this thread] that Johnny Brewer could not possibly have heard about the shooting of a local policeman on the radio before 1:30PM Dallas time. Such a broadcast was not made until after Oswald was actually confronted in the Texas Theater. The Brewer story is just one example of the fake news surrounding the assassination.
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One key element -- It has been demonstrated [in this thread] that Johnny Brewer could not possibly have heard about the shooting of a local policeman on the radio before 1:30PM Dallas time. Such a broadcast was not made until after Oswald was actually confronted in the Texas Theater. The Brewer story is just one example of the fake news surrounding the assassination.
The Brewer story is just one example of the fake news surrounding the assassination.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that Brewer was part of the conspiracy. The authorities ( conspirators) used the idiots like Brewer .....They knew that at any tragic event there are people who will say things that they can use. ....and there are other witnesses that they want to keep from talking to reporters. One of the primary witnesses at the Tippit murder scene was Helen Markham..... She was hysterical and worthless as a witness...but they knew they could manipulate her and scare her into refusing to talk to reporters......or so they thought..... But she enjoyed being in the limelight and wasn't smart enough to keep her mouth shut.....So they only recourse was to call her before the WC and manipulate her and make her appear to be a nut. The WC also used Howard Brennan......But he wasn't quite as easy to manipulate as Markham. One of the witnesses that they wanted to keep away from reporters was Domingo Benavides....because he refused to identify Lee Oswald as the killer.
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One key element -- It has been demonstrated [in this thread] that Johnny Brewer could not possibly have heard about the shooting of a local policeman on the radio before 1:30PM Dallas time. Such a broadcast was not made until after Oswald was actually confronted in the Texas Theater. The Brewer story is just one example of the fake news surrounding the assassination.
Where did Brewer say he heard the announcement before 1:30? From what I've read he gave no time - approximate or otherwise - as to when he heard it on the radio. My mistake: He told the 6th Floor Museum in an interview that he said he heard about the shooting of an officer BEFORE Oswald showed up in front of the store. That was, if I have it right, about 1:36. So he would have heard a broadcast report about a shooting before that time.
Myers says that KBOX made an announcement at about 1:31 that an officer was killed. Oswald was arrested in the theater at approximately 1:52. That is the time when Sgt. Hill radioed in that a suspect was apprehended.
Radio transcript is here: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm
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(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/Off_Topic.gif)
Thomas----Come on!
Does Tommy ever make an on-topic post?
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Myers says that KBOX made an announcement at about 1:31 that an officer was killed. Oswald was arrested in the theater at approximately 1:52. That is the time when Sgt. Hill radioed in that a suspect was apprehended.
Myers doesn’t have evidence of a 1:31 KBOX announcement. He assumes there was one because he believes Brewer’s story and KBOX is the only station that hasn’t already been ruled out.
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John,
How many people do you figure were involved in setting Oswald up?
Paine, Truly, Campbell, Baker, Reid, Sawyer, Brewer, Postal, McDonald, ...
The list goes on and on, right?
Iirc, you don't believe Oswald owned that rifle or that revolver, correct?
Do you think Fritz "made up" Oswald's saying, "You know how boys are -- they just like to have a gun with them," or words to that effect?
Do you think McDonad scratched his own face, or had someone other than Oswald do it for him?
etc.
erc.
-- MWT ;)
.
The list goes on and on, right?
Yep, you can also add, Day, Hill, Brennan, Markham, Scoggins, Callaway, The Davis sisters, Randle, Marina, Waldman, Mrs de Mohrenschildt, The WC, Earlene Roberts, Bledsoe, etc etc... In other words everybody in Dallas but Saint Oswald.
JohnM
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Yep, you can also add, Day, Hill, Brennan, Markham, Scoggins, Callaway, The Davis sisters, Randle, Marina, Waldman, Mrs de Mohrenschildt, The WC, Earlene Roberts, Bledsoe, etc etc... In other words everybody in Dallas but Saint Oswald.
Nice strawman.
Next.
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Myers doesn’t have evidence of a 1:31 KBOX announcement. He assumes there was one because he believes Brewer’s story and KBOX is the only station that hasn’t already been ruled out.
You can rule it out too.Myers says that KBOX made an announcement at about 1:31 that an officer was killed. Oswald was arrested in the theater at approximately 1:52. That is the time when Sgt. Hill radioed in that a suspect was apprehended. Myers says that KBOX made an announcement at about 1:31 that an officer was killed.
Dale Myers is a snowflake ---don't be one too. Sit down and listen to the KBOX recording yourself....
At 1:31PM--- every report..every announcement...and every ear was glued to the news of Pres Kennedy's condition. The president was pronounced dead at 1:37 a good 15 minutes was spent on this disclosure.
Anyone who even halfway claims to be a researcher would check on this [the Tippit shooting]........ Any takers?
Unfortunately KBOX part one below begins a couple of minutes after the president is declared dead @1:37 PM CST.
However there is still enough info there to glean that there was no report of the Oak Cliff shooting of Tippit until 24:30 m/s into the recording that still puts it around 2:00 PM [or after really]
Brewer was/is a liar...Myers is full of it too.
You will find..@5:25 cops say they have a suspect in custody [no idea who this might have been]
12:28 Repeats that and are looking for another guy
13:44-14:25 Shots were reported as coming from the grassy knoll...the president was shot in the right temple....a Dallas detective was dead at Parkland Hosp. of a gunshot [no other info]
24:30 MOMENTS AGO a policeman reported shot in Oak Cliff 10th and Patton [no description of any assailant was given at that time]
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You will find..@5:25 cops say they have a suspect in custody [no idea who this might have been]
12:28 Repeats that and are looking for another guy
13:44-14:25 Shots were reported as coming from the grassy knoll...the president was shot in the right temple....a Dallas detective was dead at Parkland Hosp. of a gunshot [no other info]
24:30 MOMENTS AGO a policeman reported shot in Oak Cliff 10th and Patton [no description of any assailant was given at that time]
25:12 "The assailant of officer Tippit captured in the Texas Theater on west Jefferson".
JohnM
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A) they had no cause to arrest him when they approached him in the theater. Or even cause to search him.
>>> https://johnhelms.attorney/how-long-can-the-police-detain-me/
"When police officers detain someone, they have not yet made an arrest. However, when someone is detained by the police, they are not free to simply walk away. Police may detain people in a variety of situations."
Law Office of John M. Helms
8100 John W. Carpenter Fwy.
Suite #201, Dallas, TX 75247
October 21, 2019 by johnhelmslaw
Oswald had his 4th Amendment right to ask why he was being detained, searched or even questioned. He could have done this calmly. Instead, he decided to duke it out for some strange reason:
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you see?
Mr. BREWER - Well, I saw this policeman approach Oswald, and Oswald stood up and I heard some hollering. I don't know exactly what he said, and this man hit Patrolman McDonald.
Mr. BELIN - You say this man hit Patrolman McDonald. Did you know it was Patrolman McDonald?
Mr. BREWER - I didn't know his name, but I had seen him quite a few times around Oak Cliff. But I didn't know his name.
Mr. BELIN - Then you later found out this was Patrolman McDonald?
Mr. BREWER - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Did you say this man was the same man?
Mr. BREWER - The same man that had stood in my lobby that I followed to the show.
Mr. BELIN - Who hit who first?
Mr. BREWER - Oswald hit McDonald first, and he knocked him to the seat.
C) the “resisted” box is unmarked on the arrest report.
>>> Judge Johnny: Mr Oswald, were all the right boxes checked on the arrest report?
Mr. Oswald: No, sir.
Judge Johnny: Okay, you're free to go.
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A) they had no cause to arrest him when they approached him in the theater. Or even cause to search him.
>>> https://johnhelms.attorney/how-long-can-the-police-detain-me/
"When police officers detain someone, they have not yet made an arrest. However, when someone is detained by the police, they are not free to simply walk away. Police may detain people in a variety of situations."
Did you actually read the article or just do another one of your legendary ignorant cut and paste jobs?
Not only does “looking funny to a shoe salesman” not constitute reasonable suspicion of murder, but the reasonable suspicion standard didn’t even exist yet in 1963.
Oswald had his 4th Amendment right to ask why he was being detained, searched or even questioned. He could have done this calmly. Instead, he decided to duke it out for some strange reason:
I don’t think there’s anything in the 4th amendment that says “cops can make people do anything they damn well please”, Canuck.
C) the “resisted” box is unmarked on the arrest report.
>>> Judge Johnny: Mr Oswald, were all the right boxes checked on the arrest report?
Mr. Oswald: No, sir.
Judge Johnny: Okay, you're free to go.
Judge: why does the official arrest report not mention Oswald assaulting an officer, or resisting arrest, or that an officer was injured?
McDonald: well, your honor, at that time I hadn’t made up that particular story yet.
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Did you actually read the article or just do another one of your legendary ignorant cut and paste jobs?
>>> By all means feel free to show how my 'c&p jobs' qualify as 'ignorant'
Not only does “looking funny to a shoe salesman” not constitute reasonable suspicion of murder, but the reasonable suspicion standard didn’t even exist yet in 1963.
>>> Brewer was an alert citizen who became reasonably suspicious without needing to wait for permission from any law.
I don’t think there’s anything in the 4th amendment that says “cops can make people do anything they damn well please”, Canuck.
>>> 'Canuck', LOL... you wouldn't be trying to claim my cite was from Canadian Law, now would you, JudgeJohhny?
My cite is from an American lawyer, Tex.
Law Office of John M. Helms
8100 John W. Carpenter Fwy.
Suite #201, Dallas, TX 75247
October 21, 2019 by johnhelmslaw
Judge: why does the official arrest report not mention Oswald assaulting an officer, or resisting arrest, or that an officer was injured?
McDonald: well, your honor, at that time I hadn’t made up that particular story yet.
>>> JudgeJohnny: All the witnesses were lying anyway. I know that because I said so.
EDIT (TYPO): 'Damn well please'
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Those DPD were crackerjack alright. JFK gets shot at 12.30 and they apprehended Oswald 1 hour later in the theater. Fritz was a fricken genius!
Doesn't anyone else think the discovery of the murder weapon and converging on Oswald at the theater was a bit too expedient, especially for the Keystone Cop DPD?
ETA: How the hell did Hoover know so much about everything less than 24 hrs after the Big Event?
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Those DPD were crackerjack alright. JFK gets shot at 12.30 and they apprehend Oswald 1 hour later in the theater. Fritz was a fricken genius!
Doesn't anyone else think the discovery of the murder weapon and converging on Oswald at the theater was a bit too expedient, especially for the Keystone Cop DPD?
ETA: How the hell did Hoover know so much about everything less than 24 hrs after the Big Event?
It must have been a conspiracy!
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It must have been a conspiracy!
Or Fritz was a genius who handled crucial evidence with his bare hands and staged the crime scene of the century...or the evil evil KGB did it. Which way are you leaning Tommy?
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Or Fritz was a genius who handled crucial uhcevidence with his bare hands and staged the crime scene of the century...or the evil evil KGB did it. Which way are you leaning Tommy?
Jack,
I thought I'd posted somewhere that I believe Oswald, being more Marxist-Leninist than Khrushchev, himself, and being thoroughly fed up with life in the USSR and in America (and maybe even at being "used" by both CIA-FBI and the KGB), decided to take matters into his own hands and ... gasp ... advance "The Dialectic," which, of course, the KGB has been more than happy over the years to blame on Far-Right Southern Oilmen and The Minutemen, and/or the Military Industrial Complex, and/or the Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex, and/or Rogue Elements In The CIA And The Whole Dallas Police Department, and/or The All-Encompassing FBI-and-CIA-Enforced "Deep State," or on Reptile Aliens and Jimi Hendrix Haters, ... or some-such thing.
Whatever could best serve the promulgation of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories in general, the concomitant dumbing down of American society, and the paving of the way to our eventually "electing" a pro-Kremlin useful idiot like Donald Trump to the Presidency so that he or she could (unwittingly, I guess) lead us into a Full-On Bump-Stocked Civil War?
D'oh
-- MWT ;)
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Did you actually read the article or just do another one of your legendary ignorant cut and paste jobs?
>>> By all means feel free to show how my 'c&p jobs' qualify as 'ignorant'
As in this case, you paste something that doesn’t even address the point being made. Strike 1. (do Canadians understand baseball metaphors?)
Not only does “looking funny to a shoe salesman” not constitute reasonable suspicion of murder, but the reasonable suspicion standard didn’t even exist yet in 1963.
>>> Brewer was an alert citizen who became reasonably suspicious without needing to wait for permission from any law.
How does that have anything to do with probable cause to search or arrest someone for murder? Strike 2.
I don’t think there’s anything in the 4th amendment that says “cops can make people do anything they da hmn well please”, Canuck.
>>> 'Canuck', LOL... you wouldn't be trying to claim my cite was from Canadian Law, now would you, JudgeJohhny?
Why, no, I wouldn’t. I was referring to your pontification about the United States Constitution. And I didn’t say “da hmn well please”. How dare you alter the blue box? This is an outrage. Strike 3.
>>> JudgeJohnny: All the witnesses were lying anyway. I know that because I said so.
Is that supposed to be me? I never said that all the witnesses were lying. That would be strike 4, but you’re already out.
On the other hand, you’re cherry-picking one witness on the other side of a dark theater because you like what he claimed.
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What say you-Warren bible thumpers? About your chief witness Johnny Brewer talking out of his backside.
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.
-Aldous Huxley
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As in this case, you paste something that doesn’t even address the point being made. Strike 1. (do Canadians understand baseball metaphors?)
>>> Of course not: It snows year-around in Canada, and we all live in igloos.
How does that have anything to do with probable cause to search or arrest someone for murder? Strike 2.
>>> Oswald probably caused his own demise ;)
Why, no, I wouldn’t. I was referring to your pontification about the United States Constitution. And I didn’t say “da hmn well please”. How dare you alter the blue box? This is an outrage. Strike 3.
>>> Even your supporters will ::) at that charge.
Is that supposed to be me? I never said that all the witnesses were lying. That would be strike 4, but you’re already out.
>>> So does that include Brewer? ???
On the other hand, you’re cherry-picking one witness on the other side of a dark theater because you like what he claimed.
>>> Actually I like that Brewer was an alert citizen in a see/say sense. And he would have the best chance of the ID-ing the guy he saw in his window and followed down the street.
'dark theater'
>>> Not quite:
Mr. BREWER - Yes; and she called the police, and we went----Butch went to the front exit, and I went down by the stage to the back exit and stood there until the police came.
Mr. BELIN - Then what happened?
Mr. BREWER - Well, just before they came, they turned the house lights on, and I looked out from the curtains and saw the man
As much as you seem to want to be the umpire around here, you've only managed to misrepresent most 'balls' as 'strikes'
In fact, you're way out in left field..
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/juliapostal2.jpg)
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/juliapostal2.jpg)
Julia Postal said that she told the police " I have a man in the theater who is running from you for some reason"
But prior to the phone call to the police she had requested that Johnny Brewer go inside the theater to see if he could locate the man that he had seen duck into the theater....And when Brewer came out and reported that he hadn't seen the man inside Postal then requested that Warren Burroughs and Johnny Brewer both go inside and "look real good, and also check the lounges" to see if they could find the man.... Brewer again reported to Postal, that the man wasn't in the theater.
But Postal called the police and told them the man was in the theater......A lie.
I find it curious that JD Tippit was tailing a man who obviously was a desperate fugitive ....because when Tippit got out of his car and started to approach the man , the man shot him without hesitation. This man was NOT Lee Oswald...but he was a cold blooded killer and on the run... ( You can bet that this was not the first time the man had murdered a human. ) I would not be surprised that Brewer saw the same man and became suspicious .....
The question is....Was the man ( a cold blooded killer ) involved in the murder of JFK? or was he running from some other crime?
It seems a little too co-incidental that Tippit was murdered not far from Mrs Bledsoe's rooming house ( Where Lee had lived a short time earlier ) and also a bit too co-incidental that the man lead the police toward the Texas Theater. It seems to me that the man was following orders when he killed Tippit and then deliberately and unhurriedly lead witnesses who were watching his casual "escape". He may or may not have known that the patsy was in the Texas Theater ....
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How does that have anything to do with probable cause to search or arrest someone for murder? Strike 2.
>>> Oswald probably caused his own demise ;)
Case in point. A “response” that’s completely unrelated to what’s being responded to.
'dark theater'
>>> Not quite:
Yes, quite.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see who hit whom first?
Mr. HUTSON. No.
Mr. BELIN. You are shaking your head, no.
Mr. HUTSON. No, I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Okay.
Mr. HUTSON. The lights were down. The lights were on in the theatre, but it was dark.
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Case in point. A “response” that’s completely unrelated to what’s being responded to.
Yes, quite.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see who hit whom first?
Mr. HUTSON. No.
Mr. BELIN. You are shaking your head, no.
Mr. HUTSON. No, I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Okay.
Mr. HUTSON. The lights were down. The lights were on in the theatre, but it was dark.
Hutson, eh. Cool..
Now stop squirming: Brewer is the one I'm talking about.
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Hutson. Cool..
Now stop squirming: Brewer is the one I'm talking about.
Brewer didn’t say whether it was dark or not.
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One key element -- It has been demonstrated [in this thread] that Johnny Brewer could not possibly have heard about the shooting of a local policeman on the radio before 1:30PM Dallas time. Such a broadcast was not made until after Oswald was actually confronted in the Texas Theater. The Brewer story is just one example of the fake news surrounding the assassination.
Not only would it have been impossible for Brewer to have heard the news about a Dallas police officer being shot in Oak cliff .....He lied when he said that he followed the man and then talked to "Julie" and asked her if she had sold a ticket to the man. Brewer told Ian Griggs that he stepped out onto the sidewalk and watched the man disappear from his view into the foyer of the Texas theater....Brewer said that at that point he went back inside his show store to lock up so he could go to the theater. For all Brewer knew the man could easily have left the foyer while he was locking up his shoe store......AND Butch Burroughs said that nobody had entered the theater at the time .......
Mr. BREWER - He walked into the Texas Theatre and I walked up to the theatre, to the box office and asked Mrs. Postal if she sold a ticket to a man who was wearing a brown shirt, and she said no, she hadn't. She was listening to the radio herself. And I said that a man walked in there, and I was going to go inside and ask the usher if he had seen him.
So I walked in and Butch Burroughs.----
Mr. BELIN - Who was Burroughs?
Mr. BREWER - He was behind the counter. He operated the concession and takes tickets. He was behind the concession stand and I asked him if he had seen a man in a brown shirt of that description, matching that description, and he said he had been working behind the counter and hadn't seen anybody.
P.S. I'd like to read Brewer's affidavit..... Where can I find it?
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(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340123/m1/1/med_res_d/)
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(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340123/m1/1/med_res_d/)
Thank you for posting Brewer's affidavit..... Clearly there are contradictions between Brewer's affidavit, his Warren Commission testimony and his latter day stories.
Probably the most revealing piece of information is that Brewer never waivers in saying that the man looked scared.....Well I'm her to tell ya...Based on Brewers steadfast statement that the man was scared....The guy was NOT Lee Oswald. All of you know for a fact that everybody who encountered Lee Oswald after 12:30 that afternoon reported that he was calm and normal acting. Starting with Marrion Baker and Roy Truly.....This encounter occurred just secconds after the shooting, at a time when a killer would be highly nervous...... But what did Baker say?.... He said that Lee Oswald was calm and normal, not nervous or afraid.... Then He encountered his foreman outside the TSBD and he acted totally normal....Then he encountered his Landlady Mr Roberts and again he acted normal...In a hurry but normal...Then Johnny Jump Up see a man that is acting scared and we are supposed to believe that the man was Lee Oswald.... I'm sorry Johnny...but your tale does NOT fit Lee Oswald.
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(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340123/m1/1/med_res_d/)
Notice that Brewer says that he had heard on the radio that the president had been shot ( Not that the President had died which was announced at 1:30pm) ) and he also heard that a policeman had been shot in Oak Cliff..... We know for a fact that Brewer could NOT have heard about the shooting of Tippit before 1:30....or for that matter he probably couldn't have heard about the shooting of a policeman AT ALL.... Because by his own account he was off to the theater chasing a scared man and away from the radio....So how could he have heard the radio announce the shooting of a policeman ???
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340123/m1/1/med_res_d/)
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Brewer didn’t say whether it was dark or not.
Exactly.
He said this:
Mr. BREWER - Yes; and she called the police, and we went----Butch went to the front exit, and I went down by the stage to the back exit and stood there until the police came.
Mr. BELIN - Then what happened?
Mr. BREWER - Well, just before they came, they turned the house lights on, and I looked out from the curtains and saw the man
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Exactly.
He said this:
Mr. BREWER - Yes; and she called the police, and we went----Butch went to the front exit, and I went down by the stage to the back exit and stood there until the police came.
Mr. BELIN - Then what happened?
Mr. BREWER - Well, just before they came, they turned the house lights on, and I looked out from the curtains and saw the man
So why do you think Brewer’s testimony contradicts Hutson, who said it was still dark in the theater?
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Mrs Roberts said that Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00pm..... So he couldn't have been buying a ticket at the theater at that time.......
I've never considered Johnny Brewer to have been involved as part of the conspiracy..... But one has to wonder what his motive was for making up the tale about hearing that a police officer had been shot in Oak Cliff. He obviously made up that story, because the shooting of Tippit was not broadcast until AFTER Johnny Brewer had left the shoe store where he had been listening to the radio......
I would guess that it was an after-the-fact constructed memory to justify why he followed and then had Julia Postal call the cops on a guy who he didn't see do anything wrong.
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I would guess that it was an after-the-fact constructed memory to justify why he followed and then had Julia Postal call the cops on a guy who he didn't see do anything wrong.
You may be right.... Perhaps Brewer was simply playing Dick Tracy that day....... But here's what bothers me.... He had just bought a New Ford Fairlane and he had it parked in front of the shoe store. He told Griggs hat he really didn't want to be there at the store that day, because he wanted to go riding in his new car. But his associate called in and said the baby was sick so he wouldn't be at the store that day, which forced Brewer to be there. Brewer could easily have hung an "out to lunch" sign on the door of the shop and took a lunchtime drive in his new car.....
There's something that don't quite mesh with Johnny Brewer tale..... And I doubt that anybody will argue that his tale is full of inconsistencies
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Go and punch a cop in the face and let's see what happens.
An officer approached him and he hit the officer and knocked him back.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer1.htm
JohnM
The reason I noticed the man in front of the store was because he acted so nervous, and I thought at the time he might be the man that had shot the policeman..... John Brewer
The problem with Brewers statement is:...... There is no way that Brewer could have known that a policeman had been shot at the time he claims that he saw the nervous acting man who was window shopping at his shoe store.
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You may be right.... Perhaps Brewer was simply playing Dick Tracy that day....... But here's what bothers me.... He had just bought a New Ford Fairlane and he had it parked in front of the shoe store. He told Griggs hat he really didn't want to be there at the store that day, because he wanted to go riding in his new car. But his associate called in and said the baby was sick so he wouldn't be at the store that day, which forced Brewer to be there. Brewer could easily have hung an "out to lunch" sign on the door of the shop and took a lunchtime drive in his new car.....
There's something that don't quite mesh with Johnny Brewer tale..... And I doubt that anybody will argue that his tale is full of inconsistencies
I think you are the one who should hang an "out to lunch" sign. Why does any of this nonsense make any difference? If you are not alleging that Brewer decided to follow Oswald as part of a plot, then it seemingly doesn't matter why he did so. If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody, what difference does it make? The bottom line is that Oswald entered the TT without buying a ticket. He was arrested there after hitting a police officer. He had the pistol that he used to kill Tippit. He is stone cold guilty regardless of any real or imagined minor ambiguities in the memories of witnesses.
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I think you are the one who should hang an "out to lunch" sign. Why does any of this nonsense make any difference? If you are not alleging that Brewer decided to follow Oswald as part of a plot, then it seemingly doesn't matter why he did so. If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody, what difference does it make? The bottom line is that Oswald entered the TT without buying a ticket. He was arrested there after hitting a police officer. He had the pistol that he used to kill Tippit. He is stone cold guilty regardless of any real or imagined minor ambiguities in the memories of witnesses.
If you are not alleging that Brewer decided to follow Oswald as part of a plot, then it seemingly doesn't matter why he did so. If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody, what difference does it make? The bottom line is that Oswald entered the TT without buying a ticket. He was arrested there after hitting a police officer. He had the pistol that he used to kill Tippit. He is stone cold guilty regardless of any real or imagined minor ambiguities in the memories of witnesses.
If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody,
I'll let Brewer answer that question....
So you asked Julie ( Julia Postal) to contact the police ?....And tell them what?
Johnny Brewer... "Just that there was a suspicious person in there. I still had no reason to have somebody call the police. I'm not sure what the hell I was doing here to start with. "
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If you are not alleging that Brewer decided to follow Oswald as part of a plot, then it seemingly doesn't matter why he did so. If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody, what difference does it make? The bottom line is that Oswald entered the TT without buying a ticket. He was arrested there after hitting a police officer. He had the pistol that he used to kill Tippit. He is stone cold guilty regardless of any real or imagined minor ambiguities in the memories of witnesses.
If you want to believe Brewer was just a paranoid busybody,
I'll let Brewer answer that question....
So you asked Julie ( Julia Postal) to contact the police ?....And tell them what?
Johnny Brewer... "Just that there was a suspicious person in there. I still had no reason to have somebody call the police. I'm not sure what the hell I was doing here to start with. "
Again, what difference does it make why Brewer decided to follow Oswald if you are not alleging he was acting as part of a plot? Let's say for the sake of discussion that Brewer had no reasonable basis whatsoever to find Oswald suspicious. For some inexplicable reason, however, he decided to follow him and believed he had entered the TT without buying a ticket. So what? All that matters is that Oswald entered the theatre, when the police came in response to a call, Oswald decided to hit one of them and was arrested. They discovered a pistol on him and given the proximity to the Tippit murder he becomes an obvious suspect for further investigation. Minor ambiguities in the testimony or statements of Brewer and Postal make little difference in that context.
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Again, what difference does it make why Brewer decided to follow Oswald if you are not alleging he was acting as part of a plot? Let's say for the sake of discussion that Brewer had no reasonable basis whatsoever to find Oswald suspicious. For some inexplicable reason, however, he decided to follow him and believed he had entered the TT without buying a ticket. So what? All that matters is that Oswald entered the theatre, when the police came in response to a call, Oswald decided to hit one of them and was arrested. They discovered a pistol on him and given the proximity to the Tippit murder he becomes an obvious suspect for further investigation. Minor ambiguities in the testimony or statements of Brewer and Postal make little difference in that context.
We know that Lee Oswald was in the theater.... We know that all of the people who encountered him said that he was just calm and normal acting. EXCEPT Johnny Brewer who did not know Lee Oswald said that the man that he saw was acting "scared" and "nervous"
Question: Can you explain why Lee would suddenly become scared ?..... He showed no signs of being frightened when Marrion Baker encountered him drinking a coke in the second floor lunchroom which was just seconds after the murder of JFK. Do you suppose that maybe the guy that Brewer saw was not Lee Oswald?
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We know that Lee Oswald was in the theater.... We know that all of the people who encountered him said that he was just calm and normal acting. EXCEPT Johnny Brewer who did not know Lee Oswald said that the man that he saw was acting "scared" and "nervous"
Question: Can you explain why Lee would suddenly become scared ?..... He showed no signs of being frightened when Marrion Baker encountered him drinking a coke in the second floor lunchroom which was just seconds after the murder of JFK. Do you suppose that maybe the guy that Brewer saw was not Lee Oswald?
Who encountered Oswald in the theatre and said he was calm and normal acting? Oswald was sitting in the dark while other patrons were watching a movie and had little cause to notice him. Why did he suddenly become scared and attack the police? Are you kidding'? That is a question you should ask yourself since you think he is innocent. His actions are entirely consistent with those of a guilty person who realizes the jig is up. He just murdered a cop and the president. He knows that the police are there for him and he still has the murder weapon on him. His goose is cooked. So you think Brewer followed a guy who wasn't Oswald, turns out unlucky Oswald was in that theater, and for some inexplicable reason Brewer identified Oswald as the person he saw. Wow. Poor Lee. Always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Who encountered Oswald in the theatre and said he was calm and normal acting? Oswald was sitting in the dark while other patrons were watching a movie and had little cause to notice him. Why did he suddenly become scared and attack the police? Are you kidding'? That is a question you should ask yourself since you think he is innocent. His actions are entirely consistent with those of a guilty person who realizes the jig is up. He just murdered a cop and the president.] He knows that the police are there for him and he still has the murder weapon on him. His goose is cooked. So you think Brewer followed a guy who wasn't Oswald, turns out unlucky Oswald was in that theater, and for some inexplicable reason Brewer identified Oswald as the person he saw. Wow. Poor Lee. Always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Who encountered Oswald in the theatre and said he was calm and normal acting? Did He have ample opportunity to have his gun in his hand ( Assuming he had a gun) so that when Nick da mick approached he could have snuffed him just as you think he did Tippit? What did he do, He sat there calmly and waited for the police to come to his row......Which is hardly the action of a scared man.
Oswald was sitting in the dark while other patrons were watching a movie This is an utterly STUPID statement from a halfwit.... Were the other Patrons in a different theater??
Wasn't everybody there in the dark and watching the movie? LOL!
He just murdered a cop and the president. If that was true, why would he not try to take a couple more cops...He certainly would have had the opportunity ( IF IF he actually had a gun. Yer not the sharpest knife in the drawer are ya Mr "Smith"?
He knows that the police are there for him and he still has the murder weapon on him. IF ...IF ...He had a gun on him that had been used to kill Tippit he would have been even dumber than you.... Check the records...One of the first things a killer does after he has murdered a person is; get rid of the weapon.....
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/J_D_Tippit_historical_marker.jpg/640px-J_D_Tippit_historical_marker.jpg)
The T.H.C. has pretty well conformed to the official yarn with their markers.
Originally the plaque was smaller---
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSLS1r51orQX6N4rNKaLVGcv_1PAPND8SKkgeMncRoyFeDPyhtT)
(https://assets.dmagstatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/tx-theatre-677x451.jpg)
The Texas Theater marker was also revised. It originally stated that Oswald was arrested there for the murder of JFK.
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We know that Lee Oswald was in the theater.... We know that all of the people who encountered him said that he was just calm and normal acting. EXCEPT Johnny Brewer who did not know Lee Oswald said that the man that he saw was acting "scared" and "nervous"
Question: Can you explain why Lee would suddenly become scared ?..... He showed no signs of being frightened when Marrion Baker encountered him drinking a coke in the second floor lunchroom which was just seconds after the murder of JFK. Do you suppose that maybe the guy that Brewer saw was not Lee Oswald?
Could we have a serious discussion about Johnny Brewer's tale?.... Something smells a bit fishy about his story.....
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Could we have a serious discussion about Johnny Brewer's tale?.... Something smells a bit fishy about his story.....
From an earlier post---Brewer, a manager at a shoe store located about 90 steps from the Oak Cliff neighborhood theater, was listening to news reports about the president's assassination when he heard reports that a Dallas police officer, J.D. Tippit, had just been killed a few blocks away. A man whose behavior seemed suspicious then walked into the foyer of the shoe store. Brewer said the man stared at the display in the window and acted scared as police cars with blaring sirens raced by.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/johnny-calvin-brewer-man-helped-catch-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald-honored-dallas-police-article-1.981586
Brewer lied plain and simple. His "honors' are based on fraud. KLIF...KBOX...KRLD..WFAA..WBAP Dallas radio broadcasts of Nov 22 1963 12:30 onward were all recorded and available on youtube. One can listen for themselves.
The uninformed disbelievers can do nothing but scatter the straw on this one.
See how the story went? Brewer was so involved with claims of his heroism that the facts didn't matter. Brewer 'helped catch' no one. Tippit wasn't reported DEAD on any radio station until 2:30PM or so. He was only reported SHOT after Oswald had already been arrested.
By now this smells a lot more than "a little fishy" ..It smells like a sewer full of dead fish.
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From an earlier post---https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/johnny-calvin-brewer-man-helped-catch-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald-honored-dallas-police-article-1.981586
Brewer lied plain and simple. His "honors' are based on fraud. KLIF...KBOX...KRLD..WFAA..WBAP Dallas radio broadcasts of Nov 22 1963 12:30 onward were all recorded and available on youtube. One can listen for themselves.
The uninformed disbelievers can do nothing but scatter the straw on this one.
See how the story went? Brewer was so involved with claims of his heroism that the facts didn't matter. Brewer 'helped catch' no one. Tippit wasn't reported DEAD on any radio station until 2:30PM or so. He was only reported SHOT after Oswald had already been arrested.
By now this smells a lot more than "a little fishy" ..It smells like a sewer full of dead fish.
Yes, I completely agree, Jerry...... Brewer lied plain and simple.... But WHY?? WHO wanted him to concoct the tale? I'd guess it was an FBI agent, who told him to tell the tale about seeing a "frightened man" walk by his store and duck into the theater. Everybody who knew Lee Oswald by sight said that he appeared completely normal after 12:30 that afternoon. Starting with Roy Truly who encountered Lee in the second floor lunch room just seconds after the murder.....Truly said that lee looked normal, but possibly a bit startled by the sudden appearance of a big motorcycle cop who was holding a revolver in his hand.
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Everybody who knew Lee Oswald by sight said that he appeared completely normal after 12:30 that afternoon.
Thats not true. And you know its not true.
His old landlady Mary Bledsoe saw him on the bus and said he looked "like a maniac".
She did not say that he appeared completely normal.
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Thats not true. And you know its not true.
His old landlady Mary Bledsoe saw him on the bus and said he looked "like a maniac".
She did not say that he appeared completely normal.
I'm sorry Mr Sheilds.... But I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe was a rational witness.... I strongly suspect that she was suffering from Alzheimers .....
You're free to believe anything you want, but if you're honest with yourself and study Mrs Bledsoe....I'm sure that you'll find that she was rowing with only one oar in the water.
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Start with the statements on her obviously concocted and convoluted sworn affidavit....
First ..she states that a man ducked into the theater as the police drove by.
Second..Postal said that her boss [John Callahan] jumped into his car and chases the police ???
I have noted in the past that it was never reported that Mr Callahan ever returned to his theater that was invaded by law enforcement authorities from all over Dallas. Does that strike anyone else as odd? At least extremely curious? What ever happened to Mr Callahan?
Third...back to Julia--As she stepped to the curb [by the way not telling Mr Callahan that a man just sneaked into his theater] she "turned around and saw Johnny Brewer" [who she apparently knew] who asked "did she sell that man a ticket" to which she replied "what man?" ::)
Well, by golly---Brewere would go look for him.
How long would it have taken for Brewer [who seemed more concerned about the sneaker-in than anyone else] to have gone in and searched around for this guy and come back out to give a didn't see him report to Postal?
Next..the individual that Postal mused earlier "what man" becomes a likely fugitive she decided :-\
Further...Julia takes charge and has Warren Burroughs [an usher or THE usher?] and Brewer re-enter the theater and do a thorough search this time. How long would this have taken? Brewer returns and reports that "he just wasn't there" :(
Taking absolute command, Postal orders Brewer and Warren to guard the exits...she would call the cops. She calls the police and "some woman answers" but then..disregarding this woman's gender equality, Postal wants to speak to an "officer". Amazing that over the probable hundreds of calls going into the police switchboard at the time she got through anyway. Maybe she had a hotline 8) This time it's definite...her subject is on the run. He ducked in! Why would the officer ask "did he buy a ticket?" Who buys a ticket and then sneaks in? Maybe he vanished after this. No her "woman's intuition" told her he was still there. She "called the projectionist" [I didn't get his name...did anyone?]
Mrs Postal said that she gave the officer a description of this man that she didn't see. She said that "in a minute or two" officers came in-- motorcycle officers...squad car officers...plain clothes officers...carrying rifles and shotguns. Gee that was fast :o
Strange but Julia didn't mention that the cops would show her this guy they nabbed and ask her "is this your guy?"
They had their man...call it cops intuition ;D
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/1/
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338516/m1/3/
Thanks for the wealth of information that poses many questions....
Brewer [who seemed more concerned about the sneaker-in than anyone else] GOOD POINT!..... Why was Brewer so damned obsessed with the sneaker?
We now know that He couldn't have known about the shooting of Tippit at that time.... So what the hell was he so concerned about??
Brewer returns and reports that "he just wasn't there" :( Taking absolute command, Postal orders Brewer and Warren to guard the exits...she would call the cops.
Really??.... Brewer tells Julie that the man IS NOT IN THE THEATER , But she tells Brewer to block the exits while she calls the police to report a man who Brewer had just told her was NOT IN THE THEATER??? Do you know if Julie smoked the wacky weed?
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Thats not true. And you know its not true.
His old landlady Mary Bledsoe saw him on the bus and said he looked "like a maniac". She did not say that he appeared completely normal.
You can't pick and choose whatever testimony might support your Oswald did it belief. Then what about the --after the bus story ...that Oswald calmly walked up and caught a taxi even offering a woman the cab if she wanted it? Why not address the subject above instead of sundering off into a strawman rabbit hole?
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You can't pick and choose whatever testimony might support your Oswald did it belief. Then what about the --after the bus story ...that Oswald calmly walked up and caught a taxi even offering a woman the cab if she wanted it? Why not address the subject above instead of sundering off into a strawman rabbit hole?
offering a woman the cab if she wanted it?
I believe this bit of the tale is an invention of the conspirators. It was invented to lend credence to Whaley's tale.....
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offering a woman the cab if she wanted it?
I believe this bit of the tale is an invention of the conspirators. It was invented to lend credence to Whaley's tale.....
It could be ...but then why? I don't want to drift off topic. Anyway the testimony seemed so spontaneous-- ---
Mr. BALL. Let's take the 12:30 trip, tell me about that, what the passenger said.
Mr. WHALEY. He said, "May I have the cab?"
I said, "You sure can. Get in." And instead of opening the back door he opened the front door, which is allowable there, and got in.
Mr. BALL. Got in the front door?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. The front seat. And about that time an old lady, I think she was an old lady, I don't remember nothing but her sticking her head down past him in the door and said, "Driver, will you call me a cab down here?"
She had seen him get this cab and she wanted one, too, and he opened the door a little bit like he was going to get out and he said, "I will let you have this one," and she says, "No, the driver can call me one."
So, I didn't call one because I knew before I could call one would come around the block and keep it pretty well covered.
Mr. BALL. Is that what you said?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that is not what I said, but that is the reason I didn't call one at the time and I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North Beckley."
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It could be ...but then why? I don't want to drift off topic. Anyway the testimony seemed so spontaneous-- ---
I believe that you are misunderstanding..... I don't doubt that a woman approached Whaley's cab at the bus station.....I'm just sure that Lee Oswald was NOT in that cab....
Lee Could have "admitted" that a lady came up to the cab simply to give himself an alibi that he was in Whaley's cab, which would have covered up the fact that he traveled to the rooming house by some other means.... Like a light green colored Rambler station wagon ......
If Lee said that the lady came up to the taxi....I don't know Lee's motive for "confirming" that incident...but I'm sure he was NOT in Whaley's taxi......
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People who did not follow the game plan would soon find out that they should tell the story that fit the script or they would possibly be lacking enough oxygen to maintain life . Look what they did to those who wanted to buck the system and tell what they actually saw . Domingo Benavides , Dallas Drs. and especially Roger Craig !
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Thanks for the wealth of information that poses many questions....
Brewer [who seemed more concerned about the sneaker-in than anyone else] GOOD POINT!..... Why was Brewer so damned obsessed with the sneaker? We now know that He couldn't have known about the shooting of Tippit at that time.... So what the hell was he so concerned about?
One thing...Brewer did not submit an affidavit until two weeks after the event.
The cops had practically everybody else submitting affidavits that very day! Yet Brewer had a command position [supposedly] to ID a suspect right then and there at the theater. However, the cops made no attempt to further solicit his information at that time [apparently]
The Commission's chief bulldog [David Belin] seemed just chomping at the bit to interview this 'key' witness.
Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
I don't remember hearing any newscast about 'Secret Service rumors' :-\ Perhaps...but I doubt that anyone connected with the government inquiry reviewed the radio broadcasts concerning the policeman's shooting.
If I somehow fell asleep while listening or had an abundance of wax in my ears I want to know..If someone can locate when & where the announcement-of the patrolman's shooting-& or death- was made-prior to 1:45 please call this to our attention.
From Myer's book on the Tippit shooting: "The exact time that Brewer heard the radio broadcast on the shooting of Office Tippit is not known, although it was very likely broadcast at about 1:31 p.m. over KBOX radio. There were five major radio stations covering the Dallas area - WFAA (570 AM), WPBAP (820 AM), KRLD (1080 AM), KBOX (1480 AM) and KLIF (1190 AM). All of them routinely monitored the Dallas police radio. Again, you wrote that he stated in his affidavit/testimony about listening to KLIF. Where did he say this? I can't find it."
Again ...I did not write that :) Throw straw all over the place but you can't change the facts. The [pretty much] exact time was stated by Brewer---1:30--But that was still even before the announcement of the president's death.
Dale Myers did not have the recordings that we do now.
You do the math..beginning at the link the time was 1:37 CST [the official announcement of JFK's passing]
At 0:40 there is a suspect in custody [not Oswald] then they report a Dallas [police] Detective DOA at Parkland Hospital [hardly a suggestion of Tippit in Oak Cliff is it?] By 15:00 he apparently became a Secret Service man.
Certainly there was confusion that day and police were swarming all over Jefferson Blvd but not before the announcement of President Kennedy's death.
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I'm sorry Mr Sheilds.... But I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe was a rational witness.... I strongly suspect that she was suffering from Alzheimers .....
You're free to believe anything you want, but if you're honest with yourself and study Mrs Bledsoe....I'm sure that you'll find that she was rowing with only one oar in the water.
He had the bus transfer in his pocket. He was on the bus.
What was he doing on the bus 10 minutes after the president was shot outside of his building? Why didn't he wait around for his ride home with Frazier?
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Why didn't he wait around for his ride home with Frazier?
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/Off_Topic.gif)
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He had the bus transfer in his pocket. He was on the bus.
What was he doing on the bus 10 minutes after the president was shot outside of his building? Why didn't he wait around for his ride home with Frazier?
I've never understood the CTer desire to cast doubt on Oswald's presence on the bus. The bus went nowhere. It accomplishes nothing in a conspiracy scenario to frame him. It doesn't even explain how he gets to his boardinghouse since it doesn't take him there. Imagine the conspirators creating a plan that involves faking Oswald's presence on a bus that goes nowhere, convince random folks on that bus (and which bus in Dallas do they select for this purpose?) of his presence or at least not to dispute he got on the bus. All this for no apparent purpose since he has to get off the bus and then take a cab. Wow. What a plan. Add a superfluous bus ride to the laundry list of random witnesses and events the conspirators have to conjure up to frame Oswald.
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He had the bus transfer in his pocket. He was on the bus.
What was he doing on the bus 10 minutes after the president was shot outside of his building? Why didn't he wait around for his ride home with Frazier?
A bus transfer in pristine condition ( nor wrinkled or rumpled from being in the pocket of a shirt that was stretched and torn by the police when they dragged Lee from the theater ) is not very convincing evidence that Lee Oswald was aboard Mc Watter's bus..... Mc Watter's himself said that he was mistaken about the identity of the young man who was on his bus.
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A bus transfer in pristine condition ( nor wrinkled or rumpled from being in the pocket of a shirt that was stretched and torn by the police when they dragged Lee from the theater ) is not very convincing evidence that Lee Oswald was aboard Mc Watter's bus..... Mc Watter's himself said that he was mistaken about the identity of the young man who was on his bus.
Explain to me the logic and benefit of faking that he was on the bus?
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People who did not follow the game plan would soon find out that they should tell the story that fit the script or they would possibly be lacking enough oxygen to maintain life . Look what they did to those who wanted to buck the system and tell what they actually saw . Domingo Benavides , Dallas Drs. and especially Roger Craig !
Look what they did to those who wanted to buck the system and tell what they actually saw . Domingo Benavides , Dallas Drs. and especially Roger Craig !
You've overlooked the most graphic demonstration for those who had witnessed something that contradicted the official tale... The lynching of Lee Oswald on live television, while in the "custody" of the the Dallas Police. That demonstration convinced many witnesses to keep their mouths shut.
Howard Brennan saw the murder of a man (Lee Oswald) that he had told the police was NOT the 175 pound man who was dressed in light colored Khaki clothing that he had seen aiming a rifle out of a TSBD window. When Brennan saw the murder of Lee Oswald on TV he knew that he had better not buck the authorities.
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People who did not follow the game plan would soon find out that they should tell the story that fit the script or they would possibly be lacking enough oxygen to maintain life . Look what they did to those who wanted to buck the system and tell what they actually saw . Domingo Benavides , Dallas Drs. and especially Roger Craig !
Tell us why you enter a space between punctuation marks and the words they follow.
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Explain to me the logic and benefit of faking that he was on the bus?
The plot that Lee was involved in used the same basic MO that he had used at Walker's house in April of 63. The bullet through the window was intended to by graphic evidence that he had tried to kill Walker, although commonsense would tell any intelligent person that if he had intended to KILL walker he could very easily have done that by simply firing a couple more shots ( The liars have said that he fired three shots in six seconds during the ambush of JFK) He had no intention of killing Walker.and the same is true of JFK. He was involved in a hoax that was intended to make it appear that he had shot at JFK. He was working with "FBI men" who he trusted, but those "FBI men" were merely playing him for a sucker ( patsy)
Back in the early 60's American Motors (AMC) had hugh contracts with the US Government to produce vehicles for the government. AMC produced thousands of AMC Ramblers for ol Unca Sam. They were all painted a light pastel green.... Those Ramblers went into government motor pools all over the world......Any US Government agency could use those cars..... I believe that the light colored Rambler that Roger Craig saw pick up a young man who looked like Lee Oswald was probably on loan to the "FBI men" who were setting Lee up ........ Naturally Lee wouldn't want to spill the beans and announce that he was involved in a hoax, with some FBI men, that was designed to get him welcomed to Castro's Cuba. And It was an FBI Rambler that had picked him up in front of the GK in Dealy Plaza.
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The plot that Lee was involved in used the same basic MO that he had used at Walker's house in April of 63. The bullet through the window was intended to by graphic evidence that he had tried to kill Walker, although commonsense would tell any intelligent person that if he had intended to KILL walker he could very easily have done that by simply firing a couple more shots ( The liars have said that he fired three shots in six seconds during the ambush of JFK) He had no intention of killing Walker.and the same is true of JFK. He was involved in a hoax that was intended to make it appear that he had shot at JFK. He was working with "FBI men" who he trusted, but those "FBI men" were merely playing him for a sucker ( patsy)
Back in the early 60's American Motors (AMC) had hugh contracts with the US Government to produce vehicles for the government. AMC produced thousands of AMC Ramblers for ol Unca Sam. They were all painted a light pastel green.... Those Ramblers went into government motor pools all over the world......Any US Government agency could use those cars..... I believe that the light colored Rambler that Roger Craig saw pick up a young man who looked like Lee Oswald was probably on loan to the "FBI men" who were setting Lee up ........ Naturally Lee wouldn't want to spill the beans and announce that he was involved in a hoax, with some FBI men, that was designed to get him welcomed to Castro's Cuba. And It was an FBI Rambler that had picked him up in front of the GK in Dealy Plaza.
OK. Theres no evidence for this apart from Roger Craig. Who is a dubious witness at best.
That doesn't explain the logic in faking him getting on the bus, off the bus, and having the bus transfer in his pocket. Which the cops presumably stuffed into his pocket without him knowing? Which he then didn't deny.
So now we have a dated bus transfer with a distinctive punchmark, conclusively linked to that driver, and a landlady who are in on it too? Maybe the bus company aswell? Why? Him being or not being on the bus doesn't prove or disprove anything.
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He had the bus transfer in his pocket. He was on the bus.
What was he doing on the bus 10 minutes after the president was shot outside of his building? Why didn't he wait around for his ride home with Frazier?
He had a curtain-rod fitting to take of elsewhere, followed by what he thought was a free movie.
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OK. Theres no evidence for this apart from Roger Craig. Who is a dubious witness at best.
That doesn't explain the logic in faking him getting on the bus, off the bus, and having the bus transfer in his pocket. Which the cops presumably stuffed into his pocket without him knowing? Which he then didn't deny.
So now we have a dated bus transfer with a distinctive punchmark, conclusively linked to that driver, and a landlady who are in on it too? Maybe the bus company aswell? Why? Him being or not being on the bus doesn't prove or disprove anything.
OK. Theres no evidence for this apart from Roger Craig. Who is a dubious witness at best.
There are several corroborating accounts, and photographs, that a light colored Rambler picked up a young man who looked like Lee Oswald.
So now we have a dated bus transfer with a distinctive punchmark, conclusively linked to that driver,
What does that prove??... The FACT that the transfer is in pristine condition tells us that it was NOT in Lee's shirt pocket at the Texas Theater. And although I haven't measured the reansfer....I believe it would have protruded out of the shirt pocket and been visible if it had been in his pocket at the theater.
That transfer could very easily have been produced while Mc Watter's was being questioned at the DPD .
Mr Shields I'm not going to take your hand and lead you along.... I'll give you information and you'll have to assimilate it....
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Tell us why you enter a space between punctuation marks and the words they follow.
Tell us why you're here.
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OK. Theres no evidence for this apart from Roger Craig. Who is a dubious witness at best.
There are several corroborating accounts, and photographs, that a light colored Rambler picked up a young man who looked like Lee Oswald.
Penn Jones?
So now we have a dated bus transfer with a distinctive punchmark, conclusively linked to that driver,
What does that prove??... The FACT that the transfer is in pristine condition tells us that it was NOT in Lee's shirt pocket at the Texas Theater. And although I haven't measured the reansfer....I believe it would have protruded out of the shirt pocket and been visible if it had been in his pocket at the theater.
That transfer could very easily have been produced while Mc Watter's was being questioned at the DPD .
Mr Shields I'm not going to take your hand and lead you along.... I'll give you information and you'll have to assimilate it....
You're not giving me any information, just your unsubstantiated opinion.
"That transfer could very easily have been produced while Mc Watter's was being questioned at the DPD ."
"And although I haven't measured the reansfer....I believe it would have protruded out of the shirt pocket and been visible if it had been in his pocket at the theater."
So you haven't measured the transfer or his pocket, but you believe the transfer is bigger than the pocket. Thats very weird. You don't know!
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What does that prove??... The FACT that the transfer is in pristine condition tells us that it was NOT in Lee's shirt pocket at the Texas Theater.
(https://i.imgur.com/cz4F5A5.jpg)
Pristine? I don't think so.
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None of Walt's longwinded ramblings provides an explanation for why the conspirators would go to the considerable trouble and risk of faking Oswald's presence on a bus. Trying to decipher a coherent narrative from Walt's nonsense is extremely difficult but he dimly seems to be proposing that the bus ride was an attempt to cover up Oswald getting a ride to his boardinghouse from his co-conspirators. The same conspirators who apparently want Oswald to be framed for the JFK assassination and killed are assisting in his escape for some unknown reason. Putting that aside, however, the bus takes him nowhere rendering that narrative entirely pointless in explaining how he reaches his boardinghouse. Round and round in circles it goes. And we get bizarre claims like the bus transfer was "pristine" to change the topic from the obvious logical fallacies of his claims.
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You're not giving me any information, just your unsubstantiated opinion.
Says the guy with the unsubstantiated opinion that Jack Ruby should have known the survival rate of abdominal gunshot wounds.
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And we get bizarre claims like the bus transfer was "pristine" to change the topic from the obvious logical fallacies of his claims.
"Bizarre"? That is what your use of that word is...and the topic here [Back to the movies] has already bizarrely changed half a dozen times. >:(
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None of Walt's longwinded ramblings provides an explanation for why the conspirators would go to the considerable trouble and risk of faking Oswald's presence on a bus. Trying to decipher a coherent narrative from Walt's nonsense is extremely difficult but he dimly seems to be proposing that the bus ride was an attempt to cover up Oswald getting a ride to his boardinghouse from his co-conspirators. The same conspirators who apparently want Oswald to be framed for the JFK assassination and killed are assisting in his escape for some unknown reason. Putting that aside, however, the bus takes him nowhere rendering that narrative entirely pointless in explaining how he reaches his boardinghouse. Round and round in circles it goes. And we get bizarre claims like the bus transfer was "pristine" to change the topic from the obvious logical fallacies of his claims.
If you have 2 people in auto's behind the Rambler corroborating Roger Craig's account of Ozzie being picked up by an apparent accomplice, you can't patsy him as a LN assassin.
At 5:06 Curry says they have reports LHO was picked up by a Negro in a car.
LHO is arrested @ approximately 1:55pm.
He is searched @ 4:05pm and five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells are found in his left front pocket.
So apparently LHO wasn't searched for the first 2hrs. 10min. he was in custody?
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/13/1372-001.gif
-snip-
"At approximately 1:55pm Friday, November 22, 1963, I was in the vicinity
of the Texas Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, looking for the suspect
in the slaying of officer J.D. Tippit."
-snip-
"I joined the other officers in attempting to complete the arrest"
-snip-
"succeeded in subduing the suspect, and while the other officers held the suspect, Officer Ray Hawkins and I handcuffed the suspect."
-snip-
---------------------------
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1538-004.gif
-snip-
"At 4:05pm Sims, Boyd, and Det. M.C. Hall took Oswald down to the holdover in the jail
office for a show-up. Down in the hold over, Boyd searched Oswald and found
five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells in his left front pocket. Sims
found a bus transfer slip in Oswald's shirt pocket."
-snip-
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If you have 2 people in auto's behind the Rambler corroborating Roger Craig's account of Ozzie being picked up by an apparent accomplice, you can't patsy him as a LN assassin.
At 5:06 Curry says they have reports LHO was picked up by a Negro in a car.
LHO is arrested @ approximately 1:55pm.
He is searched @ 4:05pm and five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells are found in his left front pocket.
So apparently LHO wasn't searched for the first 2hrs. 10min. he was in custody?
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/13/1372-001.gif
-snip-
"At approximately 1:55pm Friday, November 22, 1963, I was in the vicinity
of the Texas Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, looking for the suspect
in the slaying of officer J.D. Tippit."
-snip-
"I joined the other officers in attempting to complete the arrest"
-snip-
"succeeded in subduing the suspect, and while the other officers held the suspect, Officer Ray Hawkins and I handcuffed the suspect."
-snip-
---------------------------
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1538-004.gif
-snip-
"At 4:05pm Sims, Boyd, and Det. M.C. Hall took Oswald down to the holdover in the jail
office for a show-up. Down in the hold over, Boyd searched Oswald and found
five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells in his left front pocket. Sims
found a bus transfer slip in Oswald's shirt pocket."
-snip-
If you have 2 people in auto's behind the Rambler corroborating Roger Craig's account of Ozzie being picked up by an apparent accomplice, you can't patsy him as a LN assassin.
All we can say is that Roger Craig's report was corroborated.... But we can't say that the man that climbed into the Light colored Rambler was in fact Lee Oswald....
However....It is more than a little strange that the driver appeared to be a Negro ... And the young man was white.... This in Dallas 1963....Very Unusual.
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Says the guy with the unsubstantiated opinion that Jack Ruby should have known the survival rate of abdominal gunshot wounds.
Oh if he was the expert hitman people think he was then he would have. Which is why killers shoot people in the head! Or the heart. Or both.
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If you have 2 people in auto's behind the Rambler corroborating Roger Craig's account of Ozzie being picked up by an apparent accomplice, you can't patsy him as a LN assassin.
At 5:06 Curry says they have reports LHO was picked up by a Negro in a car.
LHO is arrested @ approximately 1:55pm.
He is searched @ 4:05pm and five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells are found in his left front pocket.
So apparently LHO wasn't searched for the first 2hrs. 10min. he was in custody?
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/13/1372-001.gif
-snip-
"At approximately 1:55pm Friday, November 22, 1963, I was in the vicinity
of the Texas Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, looking for the suspect
in the slaying of officer J.D. Tippit."
-snip-
"I joined the other officers in attempting to complete the arrest"
-snip-
"succeeded in subduing the suspect, and while the other officers held the suspect, Officer Ray Hawkins and I handcuffed the suspect."
-snip-
---------------------------
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1538-004.gif
-snip-
"At 4:05pm Sims, Boyd, and Det. M.C. Hall took Oswald down to the holdover in the jail
office for a show-up. Down in the hold over, Boyd searched Oswald and found
five live rounds of .38 calibre pistol shells in his left front pocket. Sims
found a bus transfer slip in Oswald's shirt pocket."
-snip-
That is a largely incoherent hodgepodge of nonsense. Again, my point here is that even if you believe (as Walt apparently does) that Oswald got a ride with some conspirator to his boardinghouse that DOES NOT explain the need to fake his bus ride. WHY? Pay attention here: the bus did not take him anywhere! Thus, it is entirely pointless to have faked Oswald's presence on the bus. I can't simplify it any further than that. This is not rocket science.
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That is a largely incoherent hodgepodge of nonsense. Again, my point here is that even if you believe (as Walt apparently does) that Oswald got a ride with some conspirator to his boardinghouse that DOES NOT explain the need to fake his bus ride. WHY? Pay attention here: the bus did not take him anywhere! Thus, it is entirely pointless to have faked Oswald's presence on the bus. I can't simplify it any further than that. This is not rocket science.
if you believe (as Walt apparently does) that Oswald got a ride with some conspirator to his boardinghouse that DOES NOT explain the need to fake his bus ride. WHY?
Mr "Smith"... Yer such a dumbass..... I believe nothing of the kind.... I do believe that Roger Craig saw a young man climb into a light colored Rambler.....( He was probably one of the assassination team) But I doubt that the man was Lee Oswald....BECAUSE ...Mrs Roberts said that Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm . SO if Lee had been the man who climbed into the Rambler he would have arrived at the rooming house well before 1:00pm. And Lee himself said that he got off a bus and caught a CITY CAB to the rooming house and his fare was 85 cents.
BUT..... Lee was NOT in Whaley's Cab....
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if you believe (as Walt apparently does) that Oswald got a ride with some conspirator to his boardinghouse that DOES NOT explain the need to fake his bus ride. WHY?
Mr "Smith"... Yer such a dumbass..... I believe nothing of the kind.... I do believe that Roger Craig saw a young man climb into a light colored Rambler.....( He was probably one of the assassination team) But I doubt that the man was Lee Oswald....BECAUSE ...Mrs Roberts said that Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm . SO if Lee had been the man who climbed into the Rambler he would have arrived at the rooming house well before 1:00pm. And Lee himself said that he got off a bus and caught a CITY CAB to the rooming house and his fare was 85 cents.
BUT..... Lee was NOT in Whaley's Cab....
So Oswald was on the bus or not?
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So Oswald was on the bus or not?
Lee was on a bus.....At least he said he was, and I have no reason to doubt it. Was it Mc Watter's bus?? The bus transfer would seem to indicate that it was Mc Watter's bus....But there is reason to doubt that the transfer is an authentic piece of evidence. I simply cannot accept that the transfer was in his shirt pocket when he was dragged from the Theater. But the bus issue isn't really vital ..... What does it prove??.... That Lee left the area of the TSBD where confusion, pandemonium and speculation reigned. ( nobody knew what the hell had happened at the time Lee left the area)
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Oh if he was the expert hitman people think he was then he would have. Which is why killers shoot people in the head! Or the heart. Or both.
Who said that Jack Ruby was an "expert hitman"?
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That is a largely incoherent hodgepodge of nonsense. Again, my point here is that even if you believe (as Walt apparently does) that Oswald got a ride with some conspirator to his boardinghouse that DOES NOT explain the need to fake his bus ride. WHY? Pay attention here: the bus did not take him anywhere! Thus, it is entirely pointless to have faked Oswald's presence on the bus. I can't simplify it any further than that. This is not rocket science.
Without Bledsoe's manipulated identification of the shirt with the hole in the sleeve, you can't place Oswald in the arrest shirt at the time of the assassination and the similar fibers supposedly taken from the butt plate of the rifle supposedly found on the sixth floor take on even less importance than they already have.
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Without Bledsoe's manipulated identification of the shirt with the hole in the sleeve, you can't place Oswald in the arrest shirt at the time of the assassination and the similar fibers supposedly taken from the butt plate of the rifle supposedly found on the sixth floor take on even less importance than they already have.
And Bledsoe just happened to be the niece of Russell Douglas Matthews' aunt, Matthews mother's sister, but who is keeping score, anyway?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanSon1919AdelaideSenterSSapp.jpg)
Ida Senter, listed under RD Matthews' aunt Adelaide Germany and her sister, Grace, who was Matthews' mother, was the grandmother of Matthews and his first cousin, Jewell Germany. Jr., who was also Mary Bledsoe's first cousin, because Jewell Germany, Sr. was Mary Bledsoe's father's brother, AKA her uncle.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census.jpg)
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/62-117290/062-117290%20Volume%2024/62-117290P24b.pdf
Matthews 1975 FBI criminal record
Excerpt from "Crossfire" by the late Jim Marrs :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BledsoeUncleJewellRDmatthewsCrossfire.jpg)
http://jfkforum.com/2018/03/
......
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=165942208
Matthews, RD (Russell D.) 92, A WWII, 2nd Marine Division, veteran, who was awarded The Navy Cross and The Purple Heart. RD will be missed by his wife of 40 years, Linda, daughter, Peggy and grandsons.
Published in Dallas Morning News on July 21, 2013
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/two-line-obituary-doesnt-do-justice-to-shadowy-r-d-matthews/
Two-line obituary doesn’t do justice to shadowy R.D. Matthews
By JOHN L. SMITH LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
July 23, 2013 – 5:10 am
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2000/oct/03/charges-leveled-in-stupak-incident/
Tuesday, Oct. 3, 2000 | 11:12 a.m.
Misdemeanor charges were expected to be filed today against an 80-year-old man who allegedly assaulted gambling figure Bob Stupak at an upscale restaurant in August.
Chief Deputy District Attorney David Barker said R.D. Matthews will be charged with battery, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.
According to police reports, Stupak, 58, was dining at Piero’s on Convention Center Drive Aug. 25 when Matthews grabbed Stupak by the arm and said he wanted to talk to him outside.
At the same time, Benny Binion Behnen, son of Horseshoe hotel-casino owner Becky Behnen, and an unnamed man reportedly began slapping Stupak about the head and face……
……Consider R.D. Matthews, who died recently at age 92, one of the most formidable apparitions from our gambling past. He was a ranking and respected member of what journalists once called the sporting crowd, which was a playful euphemism for the gamblers, hustlers, party girls and killers who lived by night on the edge of polite society.
Russell Douglas Matthews passed away in near anonymity — just a two-line obituary in a Dallas newspaper. It might have been the way he wanted it, but that quiet exit doesn’t do justice to the mystery that accompanied his long and reputedly violent life as a trusted friend of the late downtown casino legend Benny Binion. The fact you’ve never read much about Matthews in the local press makes a statement in itself.
He was born in Aspermont, Texas, on July 26, 1920. Matthews enlisted in the Marines after Pearl Harbor and was awarded a Navy Cross and Purple Heart. He is said to have inflicted more than his share of wounds in underworld wars after returning home. A member of the notorious Hollis de Lois Green gang of Texas, he was a Dallas bookmaker, nightclub manager and was known on the street as a stealthy enforcer.
Matthews was so well- acquainted with the inside players associated with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy that he rated mention in the Warren Commission Report and was interviewed at length in 1978 by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. (His attorney was Binion friend and future U.S. District Judge Harry Claiborne.)
Matthews intrigued investigators because of his intimate familiarity with the gambling underworld in Dallas, Las Vegas and Cuba, where he had lived for a time after the war. He also had a long friendship with Jack Ruby. But, then, Matthews knew most of the players in the Oswald-Ruby matrix.
Back in October 1963, Ruby placed a call to the Matthews home. A day later, according to one account, Ruby was in touch with Oswald. The connection has intrigued officials and fascinated assassination theorists for decades.
Not long after returning from the war, Matthews reacquainted himself with the Dallas underworld, where being an expert with a firearm guaranteed employment and respect. New Orleans prosecutor Jim Garrison once described Matthews as “a longtime heavy in the Southwest, having been linked with Benny “Cowboy” Binion, the Dallas racketeer now in Las Vegas.”
Officially, Matthews worked for Binion starting in the late 1970s, but multiple sources confirm they knew each other well decades earlier in Dallas, where Cowboy Benny was known as a rackets king and Matthews’ reputation for getting things done was well- established. Matthews, who wore an eye patch but never seemed to miss much around the Horseshoe, was considered a dear friend and protector of the Binion family.
………..
His street reputation was so well-known to the Las Vegas sporting crowd that a single slap from the then 80-year-old Matthews sent maverick casino man Bob Stupak into a panic. The incident occurred in August 2000 at Piero’s restaurant at a time Stupak was at odds with the new ownership of the Horseshoe led by Becky Binion Behnen.
No stranger to controversy during his extremely colorful career as the owner of Vegas World and big-idea man behind the Stratosphere tower, Stupak was so unnerved by the encounter with Matthews that he only stammered at my question and quickly declined comment.
R.D. Matthews was a ghost of Las Vegas past, but even as an octogenarian he was capable of stepping from the shadows and haunting the present.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6382620
Grace Senter Freeman
BIRTH 3 Feb 1900
DEATH 28 Apr 2002 (aged 102)
BURIAL
Sparkman Hillcrest Memorial Park
Dallas, Dallas County, Texas, USA
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20316-rd-matthews-from-steve-thomas/
………
A recently deceased friend, Dallas Attorney Spider Bynum lived across the street
from R.D. Matthews’ mother and more or less took care of her in her late years
and kept in touch with R.D. , always by telephone. He flew into Dallas on a
private airplane at 2:10 a.m. the following day after his mother’s death, met
with the funeral director at Love Field, completed his business and flew back
to Las Vegas a few hours later.
Spider tried on many occasions to ascertain what R.D. was so frightened of in
Dallas, but he refused to talk about it. I do know Spider, who did a lot of
legal work for the Campisi family and offered to accompany Joe ( Joseph) Campisi
to Washington when he was called to test ify before the House Select Committee
on Assassinations . Joe told him it was not necessary, but if R.D. Matthews was
called, he sure might need him and may never see Dallas again.
Spider swore to the day he died, R.D. Matthews was somehow involved in Kennedy’s
assassination, I guess we will never know now.
Funny how evil people live so damn long—————- “
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Without Bledsoe's manipulated identification of the shirt with the hole in the sleeve, you can't place Oswald in the arrest shirt at the time of the assassination and the similar fibers supposedly taken from the butt plate of the rifle supposedly found on the sixth floor take on even less importance than they already have.
"Without Bledsoe's manipulated identification of the shirt with the hole in the sleeve, you can't place Oswald in the arrest shirt at the time of the assassination and the similar fibers supposedly taken from the butt plate of the rifle"
Yer absolutely right Mr I..... Mrs Bledsoe was shown the shirt with the hole in the sleeve several days after 11/22/63.... When the FBI visited her at her home and asked her to identify the shirt. At that time the FBI was caught in a conundrum...... they had identified the fibers from the butt of the carcano as having come from the shirt ( CE150) that Lee was wearing at the time of his arrest at the Theater. BUT.... Lee was NOT wearing that shirt at the time of the coup d e'tat ...He was wearing a reddish colored shirt (CE 151) with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR so if the tuft of fibers matched the arrest shirt they had to have been deposited on the butt of the rifle AFTER both the shirt and the rifle were in the hands of the police.
Thus the FBI were desperate to have the senile Mary Bledsoe positively identify the arrest shirt as the shirt that she saw Lee wearing on Mc Watter's bus.
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So the plan was to fake an Oswald bus trip to put a bus transfer in his pocket to demonstrate that this was the shirt he was wearing during the assassination? Thus linking Oswald to the rifle via the shirt fibers. But wait. These same CTers argue using the WC testimony that this shirt is not linked to the rifle via the fibers. LOL. Which is it? Do the fibers link this shirt to the rifle or do they not? If you went through all that trouble to link Oswald to the bus, the bus to the shirt, the shirt to the assassination, the assassination to his rifle, the rifle to the fibers from the shirt, then wouldn't you at least put on a witness that says definitely that the fibers found on the rifle match this specific shirt? Hilarious. What a plan! Round and round it goes. Of course if the fibers matched those found on the rifle, it would be a simple matter to presume that since Oswald was arrested in that shirt it was the same one he wore earlier and that he lied about changing shirts. You would not need to concoct an entire fake bus story with all the risk and trouble that entails to explain that. And even if there were doubt about whether Oswald wore that shirt during the assassination, he could be linked to the rifle via the shirt fibers by having worn it on a prior occasion when he handled the rifle. The important point is to link Oswald to the rifle. It's absurd to suggest this had to be done in such a roundabout way via a fake bus ride.
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If you went through all that trouble to link Oswald to the bus, the bus to the shirt, the shirt to the assassination, the assassination to his rifle, the rifle to the fibers from the shirt, then wouldn't you at least put on a witness that says definitely that the fibers found on the rifle match this specific shirt? Hilarious. What a plan!
It was enough to fool you.
Round and round it goes. Of course if the fibers matched those found on the rifle, it would be a simple matter to presume that since Oswald was arrested in that shirt it was the same one he wore earlier and that he lied about changing shirts.
Sure, it you are a fan of circular arguments.
The important point is to link Oswald to the rifle. It's absurd to suggest this had to be done in such a roundabout way via a fake bus ride.
The WC had other agendas. One of which was to quash any hint that Oswald was ever in cahoots with another person in any possible way.
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So the plan was to fake an Oswald bus trip to put a bus transfer in his pocket to demonstrate that this was the shirt he was wearing during the assassination? Thus linking Oswald to the rifle via the shirt fibers. But wait. These same CTers argue using the WC testimony that this shirt is not linked to the rifle via the fibers. LOL. Which is it? Do the fibers link this shirt to the rifle or do they not? If you went through all that trouble to link Oswald to the bus, the bus to the shirt, the shirt to the assassination, the assassination to his rifle, the rifle to the fibers from the shirt, then wouldn't you at least put on a witness that says definitely that the fibers found on the rifle match this specific shirt? Hilarious. What a plan! Round and round it goes. Of course if the fibers matched those found on the rifle, it would be a simple matter to presume that since Oswald was arrested in that shirt it was the same one he wore earlier and that he lied about changing shirts. You would not need to concoct an entire fake bus story with all the risk and trouble that entails to explain that. And even if there were doubt about whether Oswald wore that shirt during the assassination, he could be linked to the rifle via the shirt fibers by having worn it on a prior occasion when he handled the rifle. The important point is to link Oswald to the rifle. It's absurd to suggest this had to be done in such a roundabout way via a fake bus ride.
The important point is to link Oswald to the rifle.
Why?.... The Carcano was NOT the murder weapon....There were NO bullets found in the victims that could be traced to the carcano. And the wounds were not consistent with those that are caused by FMJ projectiles. Not to mention the bore of the carcano was dirty and rusty, which means it was not fired that day.And the way the Carcano was hidden indicates that it had to have been hidden beneath that pallet with the boxes of books stacked on it PRIOR to the shooting, because Baker and Truly were there on the 6th floor just a couple of minutes after the shooting and they saw nobody in the area at the top of the stairs where the rifle had been carefully hidden..
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if... you are a fan of circular arguments.
It's Elementary Trolling 101
(https://i2.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/oswalds-shirt.jpg?resize=768%2C393)
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It was enough to fool you.
Sure, it you are a fan of circular arguments.
The WC had other agendas. One of which was to quash any hint that Oswald was ever in cahoots with another person in any possible way.
Similar to the "library books" on another thread, which were returned by......??? while Oswald was at least 500 to 1000 miles away.
Anyway, "back to the movies", per the thread title, you have the assistant D.A. (Alexander) and an army of police, and media, to investigate a - possible - theater ticket evader?
Ok. Pull the other one, as the saying goes.
Johnny Brewer. Had not heard of Tippit's death on the radio.
Julia Postal. Did not see Oswald. ( per her statements)
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Similar to the "library books" on another thread, which were returned by......??? while Oswald was at least 500 to 1000 miles away.
Anyway, "back to the movies", per the thread title, you have the assistant D.A. (Alexander) and an army of police, and media, to investigate a - possible - theater ticket evader?
Ok. Pull the other one, as the saying goes.
Johnny Brewer. Had not heard of Tippit's death on the radio.
Julia Postal. Did not see Oswald. ( per her statements)
Johnny Brewer. Had not heard of Tippit's death on the radio.
This is a fact.... But Brewer was instrumental in leading the police to the theater.... Can you offer an plausible explanation for Brewers actions?
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Johnny Brewer. Had not heard of Tippit's death on the radio.
This is a fact.... But Brewer was instrumental in leading the police to the theater.... Can you offer an plausible explanation for Brewers actions?
Brewer had heard of Tippit's shooting on the radio.
The president had just been shot and maybe killed 2 miles away.
There was a manhunt on for the killer.
A man with "His hair was sort of messed up and looked like he had been running, and he looked seared, and he looked funny" was dodging police cars in Brewers shop window.
The same man ducked into a cinema without paying.
Brewer not following the man and reporting what he saw would've been implausible.
Are we claiming Brewer is in on it too?
How far reaching is this conspiracy?
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Brewer had heard of Tippit's shooting on the radio.
The president had just been shot and maybe killed 2 miles away.
There was a manhunt on for the killer.
A man with "His hair was sort of messed up and looked like he had been running, and he looked seared, and he looked funny" was dodging police cars in Brewers shop window.
The same man ducked into a cinema without paying.
Brewer not following the man and reporting what he saw would've been implausible.
Are we claiming Brewer is in on it too?
How far reaching is this conspiracy?
Brewer not following the man and reporting what he saw would've been implausible.
Are we claiming Brewer is in on it too?
That's what we're trying to determine..... We know that he was lying about hearing reports of Tippit's murder on the Radio.... WHY was he lying?
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That's what we're trying to determine..... We know that he was lying about hearing reports of Tippit's murder on the Radio.... WHY was he lying?
How do we know he was lying? Its perfectly possible that when the shooting report went out on the police radio that the news picked it up and reported it on the radio station Brewer was listening to before Oswald ducked into his store. KBOX Radio reported it very quickly.
Its also possible that he heard it later that day. After Oswalds arrest. He may have been mistaken. He may not have been.
Are we claiming Brewer was in on some plot?
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How do we know he was lying? Its perfectly possible that when the shooting report went out on the police radio that the news picked it up and reported it on the radio station Brewer was listening to before Oswald ducked into his store. KBOX Radio reported it very quickly.
Its also possible that he heard it later that day. After Oswalds arrest. He may have been mistaken. He may not have been.
Are we claiming Brewer was in on some plot?
There is evidence - I think proof - that the shooting was broadcast over the police radio and that numerous radio stations and news organizations listened in to the police radio. They did that regularly and in particular that day. They would hear the report of the shooting over the radio.
The next question is when did they - or one of them - report on the shooting? It's very different to tell when because the radio broadcasts were not updating the time. But it was clearly reported.
Mr. Cakebread shows every day here that he is grossly misinformed on the assassination. Frankly, it's not much benefit to try and respond to him. But it's your call.
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There is evidence - I think proof - that the shooting was broadcast over the police radio and that numerous radio stations and news organizations listened in to the police radio. They did that regularly and in particular that day. They would hear the report of the shooting over the radio.
The next question is when did they - or one of them - report on the shooting? It's very different to tell when because the radio broadcasts were not updating the time. But it was clearly reported.
Mr. Cakebread shows every day here that he is grossly misinformed on the assassination. Frankly, it's not much benefit to try and respond to him. But it's your call.
Oh it was 100% broadcast and you're right - anyone could listen in to the police radio back then. Up until relatively recently actually. I used to!
Im just curious to what the theory is? Do people think Brewer is somehow part of a plot. That the plotters knew Oswald was going to duck into the store. And told Brewer to lie about Oswald looking suspicious? Or did Oswald not duck into the store and Brewer made it up being part of a plot?
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How do we know he was lying? Its perfectly possible that when the shooting report went out on the police radio that the news picked it up and reported it on the radio station Brewer was listening to before Oswald ducked into his store. KBOX Radio reported it very quickly.
Its also possible that he heard it later that day. After Oswalds arrest. He may have been mistaken. He may not have been.
Are we claiming Brewer was in on some plot?
Are we claiming Brewer was in on some plot?
Why would Brewer lie and say that he had heard about the shooting of an officer on the radio.....when there had been no radio reports of an officer shot?
He claimed that he had heard of the shooting before the man who appeared to be scared, looked in the window of his shoe store. He said that he stepped outside to see where the scared looking man was going, and saw him "duck into the theater."....
In reality Brewer could NOT have seen where the man went when he stepped into the foyer of the Theater..... Brewer went back into his store and he could not have known if the man actually entered the theater. ( Butch Burroughs said that nobody entered the theater at that time)
We do know that Lee Oswald was in the theater..... and at least one FBI agent was also in the theater.....
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Oh it was 100% broadcast and you're right - anyone could listen in to the police radio back then. Up until relatively recently actually. I used to!
Im just curious to what the theory is? Do people think Brewer is somehow part of a plot. That the plotters knew Oswald was going to duck into the store. And told Brewer to lie about Oswald looking suspicious? Or did Oswald not duck into the store and Brewer made it up being part of a plot?
Brewer is somehow part of a plot. That the plotters knew Oswald was going to duck into the store. And told Brewer to lie about Oswald looking suspicious? Or did Oswald not duck into the store and Brewer made it up being part of a plot?
Now your asking the same questions that I ask...... And it all stems from Brewer saying that he heard about the shooting of the officer at a time that the shooting had not yet been reported.
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Oh it was 100% broadcast and you're right - anyone could listen in to the police radio back then. Up until relatively recently actually. I used to!
Im just curious to what the theory is? Do people think Brewer is somehow part of a plot. That the plotters knew Oswald was going to duck into the store. And told Brewer to lie about Oswald looking suspicious? Or did Oswald not duck into the store and Brewer made it up being part of a plot?
I'm not sure what the idea is regarding Brewer and Postal. Some Oswald defenders say Oswald was fleeing the scene, the TSBD, because he believed he was going to be accused of the assassination. He realized he was set up.
So if he was indeed in flight - for innocent reasons - then it makes sense that Brewer saw a frightened or worried or desperate (whatever one wants to call it) Oswald. Oswald is, in this theory, afraid and that's what Brewer saw.
But the Oswald defenders want to see conspiracies everywhere EVEN IF the facts support their "Oswald was in flight because he was framed" theory. If one truly believed Oswald was in flight for his life then Brewer's description fits into that theory. Why refute it? It helps you theory.
Some conspiracy advocates are reasonable and thoughtful; some are not. This is an example of the latter.
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I'm not sure what the idea is regarding Brewer and Postal. Some Oswald defenders say Oswald was fleeing the scene, the TSBD, because he believed he was going to be accused of the assassination. He realized he was set up.
So if he was indeed in flight - for innocent reasons - then it makes sense that Brewer saw a frightened or worried or desperate (whatever one wants to call it) Oswald. Oswald is, in this theory, afraid and that's what Brewer saw.
But the Oswald defenders want to see conspiracies everywhere EVEN IF the facts support their "Oswald was in flight because he was framed" theory. If one truly believed Oswald was in flight for his life then Brewer's description fits into that theory. Why refute it? It helps you theory.
Some conspiracy advocates are reasonable and thoughtful; some are not. This is an example of the latter.
Lee wasn't "in flight".... He knew the plan called for him to meet his FBI handler in the Theater. And that's where he was going.
When Ian Griggs talked to Johnny Brewer in 1996, Griggs asked Brewer this question: So you asked Julie to contact the police and tell them what?
Brewer replied:...Just that there was a suspicious person in there. I still had no reason to have somebody call the police. I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing here to start with.
He hadn't seen the "frightened man" in the theater when he and Butch Burroughs searched the theater just minutes earlier....So why would he tell Julia Postal to call the police???
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There is evidence - I think proof - that the shooting was broadcast over the police radio and that numerous radio stations and news organizations listened in to the police radio. They did that regularly and in particular that day. They would hear the report of the shooting over the radio.
The next question is when did they - or one of them - report on the shooting? It's very different to tell when because the radio broadcasts were not updating the time. But it was clearly reported.
Mr. Cakebread shows every day here that he is grossly misinformed on the assassination. Frankly, it's not much benefit to try and respond to him. But it's your call.
The radio broadcasts DID update the time. The radio broadcasts are linked here in the thread and on youtube. Do you have a watch? Just count the minutes.
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program,
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men
I could not locate that statement on the recordings.Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
I have asked that if this was indeed announced on the radio recording before Oswald's arrest, that the timing be diligently pinpointed on the link. So far--no takers.
Mr. BELIN - All right, would you describe what happened after you heard on the radio that an officer had been shot?
Mr. BREWER - Well, there was heard a siren coming down East Jefferson headed toward West Jefferson.
Yet...according to the Dallas Police radio transcript.. no mention of any possible suspect was made around Brewer's area until @1:45
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm
I am not saying that Brewer was part of a plot. I am just saying that his story is obviously contrived and the Warren Commission went with it anyway.
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The radio broadcasts DID update the time. The radio broadcasts are linked here in the thread and on youtube. Do you have a watch? Just count the minutes. I could not locate that statement on the recordings.I have asked that if this was indeed announced on the radio recording before Oswald's arrest, that the timing be diligently pinpointed on the link. So far--no takers.Yet...according to the Dallas Police radio transcript.. no mention of any possible suspect was made around Brewer's area until @1:45
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm
I am not saying that Brewer was part of a plot. I am just saying that his story is obviously contrived and the Warren Commission went with it anyway.
I have asked that if this was indeed announced on the radio recording before Oswald's arrest, that the timing be diligently pinpointed on the link.
Both Domingo Benavides and Bowley used Tippit's police band radio before 1:15..... They spoke plain English and said that a policeman had been shot, so anybody monitoring the police radio would have heard their broadcast. Reporters routinely monitor the police radio, so a reporter could have learned about the Tippit shooting and could have announced it over a public broadcast before 1:30. But I don't believe there is a record of that happening.
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Nobody has ever found a radio announcement of Tippit’s shooting prior to Oswald’s arrest.
I believe that it was Brewer’s after-the-fact rationalization for why he would find this person at his store front suspicious.
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Nobody has ever found a radio announcement of Tippit’s shooting prior to Oswald’s arrest.I believe that it was Brewer’s after-the-fact rationalization for why he would find this person at his store front suspicious.
Whereas I don't believe Brewer saw Lee Harvey Oswald acting suspiciously or even saw him at all.
I think Johnny Brewer was directed to follow an individual that he was told sneaked into the theater. He did not get that good of look at him and that is why he didn't find him when he he first looked around. When the cops finally came, he was prompted to point out Oswald by this same individual. I still wonder what ever happened to the manager of that theater who left to go see what the cops were looking for. Why did he never show back up when the cops were all over his theater there?
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Whereas I don't believe Brewer saw Lee Harvey Oswald acting suspiciously or even saw him at all.
I think Johnny Brewer was directed to follow an individual that he was told sneaked into the theater. He did not get that good of look at him and that is why he didn't find him when he he first looked around. When the cops finally came, he was prompted to point out Oswald by this same individual. I still wonder what ever happened to the manager of that theater who left to go see what the cops were looking for. Why did he never show back up when the cops were all over his theater there?
I don't believe Brewer saw Lee Harvey Oswald acting suspiciously or even saw him at all.
IF?? IF?? Brewer saw Lee walk by his store, his tale about Him appearing scared simply clashes with all witnesses who recognized Lee Oswald and saw him after 12:30. All of those who knew Lee by sight said that he acted completely normal. Of course people like Brewer who want to convict Lee Oswald try to paint him as being scared and in flight......
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I don't believe Brewer saw Lee Harvey Oswald acting suspiciously or even saw him at all.
IF?? IF?? Brewer saw Lee walk by his store, his tale about Him appearing scared simply clashes with all witnesses who recognized Lee Oswald and saw him after 12:30. All of those who knew Lee by sight said that he acted completely normal.
"He looked like a maniac" is not completely normal.
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"He looked like a maniac" is not completely normal.
If you choose to accept the word of a senile old busybody ( Mary Bledsoe) ....then it's your problem to wrestle with..... Mrs Bledsoe may not have been on Mc Watter's bus... Because she said that the bus she was on passed through the intersection of Houston & Elm AFTER the yellow barricade tapes were up ....And she saw the police taking a suspect away in handcuffs.... These events happened happened at about 1:00 O'clock.
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Lee wasn't "in flight".... He knew the plan called for him to meet his FBI handler in the Theater. And that's where he was going.
When Ian Griggs talked to Johnny Brewer in 1996, Griggs asked Brewer this question: So you asked Julie to contact the police and tell them what?
Brewer replied:...Just that there was a suspicious person in there. I still had no reason to have somebody call the police. I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing here to start with.
He hadn't seen the "frightened man" in the theater when he and Butch Burroughs searched the theater just minutes earlier....So why would he tell Julia Postal to call the police???
I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing here to start with. ...... John Calvin Brewer
Brewer told Ian Griggs that he was confused about "what the hell he was doing there in the theater, and telling Julia Postal to call the police....
IOW.... Brewer didn't know how he had got involved..... We know that he didn't hear any radio report about an officer being shot in the area. So WHAT caused him to leave his store and investigate the man that he said walked by his store.
A theory for consideration..... Is it possible that an FBI agent visited Brewers store on Friday morning and showed Brewer a photo of Lee Oswald and asked if he had seen this man ? ????..... If so.... then Brewer would have been alert to the fact that the FBI was looking for Oswald, so when Lee walked by Brewer wanted to see where he went, so he could notify the police. I believe that Lee was supposed to meet his FBI handler in the Theater....and Lee would probably walk by Brewer's shoe store on the way to the theater. So that FBI man could easily have alerted Brewer to be on the lookout for the fugitive ......
I would remind those who doubt .... That at 2:45 pm 11/22/63, FBI agent James Hosty told DPD Detective Jack Revill that " A communist named Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President" (This happened less than an hour after Lee was dragged from the Texas theater. ) There had been NO investigation at all and yet Hosty was sent to the DPD by Hoover to sit in on the interrogation of Oswald.
It seems clear that Hoover was the puppet master who was controlling the puppets......
It should be obvious that Hosty knew that Lee Oswald was the sucker who was going to be blamed for the murder.....
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One thing...Brewer did not submit an affidavit until two weeks after the event.
The cops had practically everybody else submitting affidavits that very day! Yet Brewer had a command position [supposedly] to ID a suspect right then and there at the theater. However, the cops made no attempt to further solicit his information at that time [apparently]
The Commission's chief bulldog [David Belin] seemed just chomping at the bit to interview this 'key' witness.I don't remember hearing any newscast about 'Secret Service rumors' :-\ Perhaps...but I doubt that anyone connected with the government inquiry reviewed the radio broadcasts concerning the policeman's shooting.
If I somehow fell asleep while listening or had an abundance of wax in my ears I want to know..If someone can locate when & where the announcement-of the patrolman's shooting-& or death- was made-prior to 1:45 please call this to our attention. Again ...I did not write that :) Throw straw all over the place but you can't change the facts. The [pretty much] exact time was stated by Brewer---1:30--But that was still even before the announcement of the president's death.
Dale Myers did not have the recordings that we do now.
You do the math..beginning at the link the time was 1:37 CST [the official announcement of JFK's passing]
At 0:40 there is a suspect in custody [not Oswald] then they report a Dallas [police] Detective DOA at Parkland Hospital [hardly a suggestion of Tippit in Oak Cliff is it?] By 15:00 he apparently became a Secret Service man.
Certainly there was confusion that day and police were swarming all over Jefferson Blvd but not before the announcement of President Kennedy's death.
.Brewer did not submit an affidavit until two weeks after the event.
One would suspect that an affidavit that was taken two weeks after the event would be for the benefit of the "investigators".... And such an affidavit would be worthless......
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George Applin....Theater patron
It has been asked-- Why did Oswald go to the movies if he wasn't on the run as claimed. Why did any of the people that were there go to see a cartoon and a war movie? George Applin stated that before he entered the Texas Theater he had heard that JFK had been shot.
Didn't stop him.
Take a glance at his affidavit taken that afternoon...
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Eunice Sorrels, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared George Jefferson Applin, Jr., w/m [white male] 21, of 3423 Weisenberger Drive, Dallas, Dallas County, Texas who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
On Friday evening, November 22, 1963 at about 1:45 p.m., I was seated on the main floor of the Texas Theater on West Jefferson in Dallas, Texas. As I watched the movie I saw an officer walking down the isle [sic] with a riot gun and about that time the light came on in the theater. One of the patrolmen walked down to the front of the theater and walked back up the isle [sic] and I got up and started walking toward the front of the theater. I saw the officer shake two men down and then asked a man sitting by himself to stand up. As the officer started to shake him down, and when he did, this boy took a swing at the officer and then the next thing I could see was this boy had his arm around the officer's left shoulder and had a pistol in his hand. I heard the pistol snap at least once. Then I saw a large group of officers subdue this boy and arrest him.
/s/ George Jefferson Applin Jr.
3423 Weisenberger Drive
Dallas 12, Texas
FE7-3491
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22nd DAY OF November A.D. 1963
s/ Eunice Sorrels
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
Three weeks later according to an interview with the FBI...Applin had a more vivid and damning recollection regarding Oswald----
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=73&tab=page
In that FBI report it was told that Applin said when the cops came down the isles ...he got up and went to the lobby. Now wasn't that action what you might think... suspicious?
But the cops didn't notice that?
Also, there is no mention of Brewer and his searching around. According to Applin there were only 5 or 6 people sitting downstairs.
So what was Brewer's problem? And also, no mention of Brewer up on the screen stage pointing out a suspect.
Applin testified Apr 2 '64....
Mr. BALL - Now, November 22, 1963, were you in Dallas?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes; I believe I was.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing here?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, I was working for the Rollform Corp.
Mr. BALL - How do you spell it?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, I have got one of their checks--check stubs here in my pocket, I believe. At least I think I have. Here it is [indicating].
Mr. BALL - What were you doing in Dallas?
Mr. APPLIN - Working.
Mr. BALL - Working here in Dallas?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What kind of work?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, I was working as, open-head crane operator, and painter and front-end loader.
Mr. BALL - Did you go to the picture show that afternoon?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to be off duty that day?
Mr. APPLIN - They was installing a new cutting press for the rollers, and they did not need me, so, they let me off for 2 days.
Applin couldn't spell the name of his own company--- ROLLFORM :-\
He "believed" he was in Dallas Nov 22. I absolutely know for sure I was. I guess he was nervous.
Mr. BALL - What time of day did you go there?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, actually, I went to---I was over in Oak Cliff, around about, I guess, about 12 o'clock, I imagine is what time it was. I was there and the show hadn't opened up, so, I was sitting in my car listening to the radio up until the time that the show opened.
Mr. BALL - You went in the show when it opened?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Paid your way?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And where did you take your seat? What part of the theatre?
Mr. APPLIN - About six rows down, I got in the middle aisle, about the middle of the chairs.
Mr. BALL - Middle aisle, six rows from the rear?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And you were how far from the middle aisle into the row of seats?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, about--seemed quite a little while since I thought about this. I guess I was about four or five seats over from the aisle.
Mr. BALL - From the aisle. Now, did something happen there during that showing of that picture that you remember?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, I know this much, Audie Murphy introduced the picture.
Mr. BALL - Then some police officers came in there?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; the lights came on.
Audie Murphy was there?
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes; I believe he had a shotgun. Might have been a rifle.
Mr. BALL - What else did you see?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, when I seen him, I was wondering what was the matter and what about the lights.
Mr. BALL - You got up and ran up to the front?
Mr. APPLIN - Went to the front to find out what was happened--was happened-- happening. As I was going up an officer passed me going down and I stopped to find out.
Mr. BALL - Did you ask him?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; he passed me before I got a chance to ask him.
?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, he stopped and asked two boys sitting down in the front, asked them to stand up and----
Mr. BALL - Did he search them?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; they shuffled them down.
Mr. BALL - Did he search you?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; they came on up to Oswald, where he was sitting.
Mr. BALL - Where was he sitting?
Mr. APPLIN - I--he was sitting, I guess, about 3 or 4 rows down.
Mr. BALL - You mean from the rear of the theatre?
Mr. APPLIN - From the rear.
If the cops were looking for one guy and Applin, a young male, being perhaps who they were looking for...well, do you wonder?
And then why would the cops "shake down" a couple of kids when they were searching for this one 5'10" @30 yrs old 165 lbs guy?
Mr. BALL - Then, you were about four rows away from where Oswald was----
Mr. APPLIN - Apprehended.
Mr. BALL - And did you hear the officer, what he said?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; heard mainly what both of them said.
Mr. BALL - What did the officer say?
Mr. APPLIN - The officer said, "Will you stand up, please."
Mr. BALL - What did the man say?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, he just stood up.
Mr. BALL - Did he say anything?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; I didn't hear him say anything at that time.
Mr. BALL - And what happened then?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, when he stood up, the officer stepped over to search him down. The officer, Oswald, or the man, took a swing at him. When he did, the officer grabbed him.
Mr. BALL - Took a swing at him with his fist?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL - With his left or right?
Mr. APPLIN - Right fist.
Mr. BALL - Took a swing at him and what happened then?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, the officer, I heard him say, "Here he is." And during the proceeding of that, I guess about 5 or 10 seconds later, there was another--I think it was two officers, or one, passed me and ran down there to him.
Mr. BALL - Did you see a gun?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, the gun didn't come into view until after about four or five officers were there.
Mr. BALL - Then did you see a gun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; but only--there was one gun. The pistol. It came into view before any of the other officers got there.
Mr. BALL - That is what I mean. What do you say happened about that? Who pulled a gun?
"Will you stand up please"
We have a more polite altercation than was stated in the FBI report.
Well, the gun didn't come into view until after about four or five officers were there.
A different reaction than was in the FBI report...where the narrative was "Oswald instantly drew a pistol and fired point blank at a cop and the pistol just clicked harmlessly"
Mr. BALL - Who pulled the pistol?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess it was Oswald, because--for one reason, that he had on a short sleeve shirt, and I seen a man's arm that was connected to the gun.
Mr. BALL - What did the officer do?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, the officer was scuffling with him there, and----
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anything?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, about the only thing I heard was the snap of the gun and the officer saying, "Here he is."
Mr. BALL - You heard the snap of a gun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Once again we see that the FBI changed or someone else changed a report to further incriminate Oswald.
"I guess it was Oswald"
By testimony time it was just so much guesswork anyway.
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George Applin....Theater patron
It has been asked-- Why did Oswald go to the movies if he wasn't on the run as claimed. Why did any of the people that were there go to see a cartoon and a war movie? George Applin stated that before he entered the Texas Theater he had heard that JFK had been shot.
Didn't stop him.
Take a glance at his affidavit taken that afternoon...
Three weeks later according to an interview with the FBI...Applin had a more vivid and damning recollection regarding Oswald----
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=73&tab=page
In that FBI report it was told that Applin said when the cops came down the isles ...he got up and went to the lobby. Now wasn't that action what you might think... suspicious?
But the cops didn't notice that?
Also, there is no mention of Brewer and his searching around. According to Applin there were only 5 or 6 people sitting downstairs.
So what was Brewer's problem? And also, no mention of Brewer up on the screen stage pointing out a suspect.
Applin testified Apr 2 '64....Applin couldn't spell the name of his own company--- ROLLFORM :-\
He "believed" he was in Dallas Nov 22. I absolutely know for sure I was. I guess he was nervous.Audie Murphy was there? ?If the cops were looking for one guy and Applin, a young male, being perhaps who they were looking for...well, do you wonder?
And then why would the cops "shake down" a couple of kids when they were searching for this one 5'10" @30 yrs old 165 lbs guy?"Will you stand up please"
We have a more polite altercation than was stated in the FBI report.
Well, the gun didn't come into view until after about four or five officers were there.
A different reaction than was in the FBI report...where the narrative was "Oswald instantly drew a pistol and fired point blank at a cop and the pistol just clicked harmlessly"
Once again we see that the FBI changed or someone else changed a report to further incriminate Oswald.
"I guess it was Oswald"
By testimony time it was just so much guesswork anyway.
Mr. BALL - Who pulled the pistol?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess it was Oswald, because--for one reason, that he had on a short sleeve shirt, and I seen a man's arm that was connected to the gun.
Hmmmm.... Did Lee change his shirt again before leaving the theater??.... I believe the photos of Lee being dragged from the theater show that he was wearing a LONG SLEEVED SHIRT......
Soooo...WHO was wearing a short sleeved shirt and holding a revolver?
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Brewer had heard of Tippit's shooting on the radio.
Find that spot on the audio transcripts and you win ;D
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Those DPD were crackerjack alright. JFK gets shot at 12.30 and they apprehended Oswald 1 hour later in the theater.
1 hour later
50 minutes or less till on their way with Oswald to the jailhouse according to testimony already posted.