JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on October 09, 2019, 06:28:33 PM
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TESTIMONY OF CURTIS LaVERNE CRAFARD-- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/crafard.htm
Was it just filler for the voluminous Warren Report or was there any reason why the Commission would be interested in his childhood history?....his parents history?...his brother and his wife's history?...his sister's family's history?...his wife's family history?..his military history might have been pertinent but it wasn't explored exactly what he did in the Army. He just said 'anti-aircraft' and that was it. Crafard received what used to be called a blue discharge [he only served 13 months]
It seems as one might see it, you could look in the dictionary for the definition of 'drifter' and you would see his picture. [I know..he looks vaguely like Lee Harvey Oswald] He had jobs and wandered around places he had forgotten about. It is not remarkable then that he was married but his wife left him after 6 months---- Mr. HUBERT. What was the cause of your breakup?
Mr. CRAFARD. That, I do not know.
Maybe she no longer wanted to live in his parents basement :-\ But not leaving before she was expecting their child. They tried to reconcile when in Dallas he testified...but by around August of 1963 it was pretty much over.
He ultimately wound up in with a job at the State Fair of Texas which runs for the first three weeks in October...1963. It was then [third day of the fair] that he met Jack Ruby. Mr Ruby had a vision of promoting an idea which ultimately was patented elsewhere called the Twister. Crafard's fair employers went broke even before the fair ended. He was living in a tent on the fair grounds...paid with food, cigarettes, and $5 a day. After staying with some band members, the fair closed and Crafard was broke...he was offered a job working for Jack Ruby. He would do handy man stuff, operate stage lights, set up props, feed the dogs, and kept the Carousel Club clean and tidy. Larry Crafard had a room set up at the club. There he stayed for just a couple of weeks until the day after the assassination...then he skipped town.
Commission Counsel Hubert asked about Ruby associates ...did he ever overhear conversations...was there any relationships with the show girls at the club...about Mr Ruby's sister Eva who managed the nearby Vegas club. It almost seemed like there was a miniature career for Crafard as an employee of Jack Ruby. He had met so many people in only little over a month.
On Nov 23 Larry Crafard walked to the highway stuck out his thumb and hitch-hiked back to Michigan.
He testified that he had been in Chicago on his way to Michigan when he heard that Jack Ruby had shot Oswald to death.
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Notable is the fact that he spent the night on the phone with a girl he never met or previously knew, and then spent the pre dawn hours driving around with jack and George Senator, taking pictures of billboards and other nonesense.
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.. taking pictures of billboards and other nonesense.
With a Polaroid camera. One was an "Impeach Earl Warren" sign. I wonder if Earl was there to hear that ::)
Crafard must have been a real schmoe to hitchhike around the country with his wife and two kids. He said she wanted to ???
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Another weird bit about Crafard’s testimony is, IIRC, he lived in both Dallas, Oregon and Cuba, Kansas.
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Another weird bit about Crafard’s testimony is, IIRC, he lived in both Dallas, Oregon and Cuba, Kansas.
Michael, some "fall out" for ya..... not quite an interview candidate....
Crafard background testimony, provides explanation for discussion @ancestry.com link. :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&relPageId=421
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=26492&p=surnames.johnson
Bottom of page:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390&relPageId=168
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Michael, some "fall out" for ya..... not quite an interview candidate....
Crafard background testimony, provides explanation for discussion @ancestry.com link. :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&relPageId=421
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=26492&p=surnames.johnson
Bottom of page:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390&relPageId=168
So........ was it Crafard or Lovelady who was up there on the 6th floor in that famous film after Jack's whack?
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So........ was it Crafard or Lovelady who was up there on the 6th floor in that famous film after Jack's whack?
Mark, uploading Billy's obit and reporting on Mac Wallace's trial. Are you aware Mac was leader of group of 25 former stoodents of which three were Jesse Core's wife, Lucy, and two CIA-type, India-philes?
.....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40196#relPageId=2&tab=page
(wife of) Jesse CORE was one of a suspect political group, Dallas County Volunteers for RAINEY, which was of interest to the Security Office in 1956-1957 because
Jesse CORE, then Lucy RUGGLES, the daughter of William RUGGLES, an editorial writer on the Dallas Morning News, was particularly active) is said to have ....CIA employee Michael Charles Pearson #62901 and his friend, John Max Rosenfield, #21044 , a former OSS man... (Scully sez.. my research indicates Rosenfield was the son of the DMN music columnist...)
........
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MacWallaceTrial.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Lovelady1979.jpg)
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Mark, uploading Billy's obit and reporting on Mac Wallace's trial. Are you aware Mac was leader of group of 25 former stoodents of which three were Je8sse Core's wife, Lucy, and two CIA-type, India-philes?
Gee, I read that he was as suspected Commie while he was at U.T.
-- MWT ;)
PS Probably just pretendin' to be one for the evil, evil, evil CIA, huh?
Him and GdM ...
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Gee, I read that he was as suspected Commie while he was at U.T.
-- MWT ;)
PS Probably just pretendin' to be one for the evil, evil, evil CIA, huh?
Him and GdM ...
For me, it was love, at first sight.:
https://twitter.com/commiegirl1?lang=en
Yup, CIA suspected Jesse's wife of being a commie, but gave her bud, Pearson, "occifer" status, and her future husband, Jesse,
Dept. of State consul status in Madras....
Emm-Dubbya… kinda like Christmas morning.... just after I posted (see below) on an evil, evil, CIA infiltrated forum....
Did you ever see the faces of the children
They get so excited
Waking up on Christmas morning
Hours before the winter sun's ignited
They believe in dreams and all they mean
Including heaven's generosity
Peeping round the door
To see what parcels are for free
In curiosity
And Tommy doesn't know what day it is
He doesn't know who Jesus was
Or what praying is....
(And Dulles taught in India in 1914...)
Posted by Tom Scully
Oswald is established as a lone nut?
William Ruggles in 1963 wrote the editorials of the Dallas Morning News.
His daughter Marilou Ruggles Core was linked in a CIA report to a former O.S.S. officer who became an India scholar at Harvard
and was the son of the Dallas Morning News music columnist. Marilou Ruggles married Jesse R Core III, a recent DMN reporter,
in 1950.
Marilou, in that same CIA report, is linked to two CIA officers who served in India, as well as her husband Jesse who admitted to
being a CIA asset. That CIA report describes Jesse as serving in Calcutta with one of those two linked CIA officers, David G Baldwin.
Kerry Thornley claimed his mentor, Clint Bolton, a former AP journalist reporting from India, was a close friend of Jesse Core.
J Walton Moore served in India in 1950, Ann Goodpasture in 1954.
Clay Shaw hired Baldwin as Trade Mart PR director upon his return from Calcutta in 1952 and in 1955 hired Jesse Core as Baldwin's
replacement. David G Baldwin informed Clay Shaw a week after Shaw was arrested that he (Baldwin), was godfather and first cousin of Liz Ziegler, wife of Jim Garrison.
Jesse Core reported to the FBI observing Oswald handing out fliers near the Trade Mart. Oswald is accused of firing a shot through
a window at 4011 Turtle Creek Blvd.
The thread at this link, https://www.jfkassassinationforum.co...html#msg516681 ("lost in the data vanished") is not very long. Please read it.:
J.F. Stuart Arthur rented in 1962 the home he owned (since 1940) at 4011 Turtle Creek Blvd. to Edwin Walker.
Lucy Ruggles and Jesse R Core, III were feted, prenuptially, in that very house by the Arthurs, circa 1950!
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Walker4011StuartArthurJesseCore.jpg)
....Next:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?11626-Clay-Shaw&p=121962#post121962
11-22-2017, 11:50 AM
#64 Paz Marverde Member
Join Date Oct 2016 Posts 25
The Italian newspaper L'Antidiplomatico published today a worldwide exclusive, by Michele Metta: inside Centro Mondiale Commerciale-Permindex in Rome, there was not only Clay Shaw but also Gershon Peres, brother of Shimon Peres, President of Israel from 2007 to 2014.
http://www.lantidiplomatico.it/dettn...nnedy/6_22228/
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. . .
No, Tom.
I was referring to the horn-rimmed-glasses-wearing guy whose fingerprint was allegedly found on one of the Sniper's Nest boxes.
"Mac" something or other ...
-- MWT ;)
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Michael, some "fall out" for ya..... not quite an interview candidate....
Crafard background testimony, provides explanation for discussion @ancestry.com link. :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&relPageId=421
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=26492&p=surnames.johnson
Bottom of page:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390&relPageId=168
Tom,
Thank you for that chronology. I had not seen that yet.
Mike
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That Crafard was quite the one for thumbing rides ...one might recall the story of Ralph Leon Yates.
For a detailed story concerning Yates it has been discussed on this forum and this link also--
http://www.dcdave.com/article5/120418.htm
Here are a couple of interesting excerpts from his statement to the FBI---
image 23. In his first FBI interview, Ralph Yates said the man raised a question that (if seen later in retrospect) would suggest a connection between the hitchhiker and Jack Ruby: “Yates stated as they drove along, the man had asked him if he knew a certain party, whose name Yates cannot recall now, and he had indicated to this man he did not. He said the man then asked if he had ever been to the Carousel Club [owned by Jack Ruby] and Yates had replied that he had serviced refrigerators in the past in a number of clubs and that possibly he had been to this one, but he did not recall.” Ibid., image 22.
In his second FBI interview, in which he made and signed a first-person statement, Yates remembered that the “certain party” mentioned by the hitchhiker was in fact Jack Ruby: “The man then asked me if I knew a Jack Rubenstein, and I said, ‘Who?’ The man then said that Jack Rubenstein was more commonly known as Jack Ruby, and Ruby ran the Carousel Club. I then asked the man if Ruby ran Jack’s Branch Office Lounge on Industrial, and the man said that he didn’t. I told the man that I had serviced refrigerators in a number of clubs, in the past, and had possibly been to the Carousel Club, but did not remember it.” Yates, December 10, 1963, image 24.
The hitchhiker’s remarks pointing toward Ruby, whether implicitly or explicitly, were apparently part of the fallback, Mob-connected part of the scenario. The purpose, as we shall see, was to draw on Ruby’s Mob involvements to implicate Organized Crime as a second-level (false) sponsor of the assassination. A Mob conspiracy to kill Kennedy was then used to replace the first-level, lone-assassin portrayal of Oswald when it inevitably fell to pieces. The “exposure” of a Mob plot, with Ruby and Oswald as its tools, would again leave the CIA and the Cold War system it represented safely in the shadows.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
Yates stated that the hitch-hiker strongly resembled Oswald.
I would liked to have asked Yates for a more thorough description of his passenger especially-was he possibly missing his front teeth?
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When Ralph Yates returned to his workplace at the Texas Butcher Supply Company, he told his co-worker, Dempsey Jones, about his strange conversation with the man he picked up in Oak Cliff and dropped off at Elm and Houston who was carrying the package. Dempsey Jones thereby became a supporting witness to Yates's account.
He confirmed in an FBI interview that it was before President Kennedy was assassinated that Yates described picking up the hitchhiker, "who discussed the fact with him that one could be in a building and shoot the President as he, the President, passed by."
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When Ralph Yates returned to his workplace at the Texas Butcher Supply Company, he told his co-worker, Dempsey Jones, about his strange conversation with the man he picked up in Oak Cliff and dropped off at Elm and Houston who was carrying the package. Dempsey Jones thereby became a supporting witness to Yates's account.
He confirmed in an FBI interview that it was before President Kennedy was assassinated that Yates described picking up the hitchhiker, "who discussed the fact with him that one could be in a building and shoot the President as he, the President, passed by."
The polygraph request of Yates by FBI executive level was in reaction to Yates's employer providing record indicating a different employee made the repair call Yates claimed he made, positioning Yates geographically, in the course of his work day, to be believably a driver who picked up a hijacker carrying what the hitchhiker described to Yates as "window shades".
No one "leaked" a 27 inch length description, and Yates is reported to have described a package length of at least four feet, aka 48".
November 25, 1963 - FIND OSWALD PALM PRINTS ON ...
https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/search/#query=window+shades&ymd=1963-11-25
Wife Adds Evidence. Oswald told this neighbor the package contained "window shades." His wife, Marina, later told police Oswald had the rifle at the house on ..
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57739&search=yates_and+polygraph#relPageId=93&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/YatesEmployerRepairCallPolygraph.jpg)
Right ::) From that report... Ideal but not usual.
I would refer to the Jeffery Epstein matter [which was summarily dismissed]
A usual patronizing statement.
Unsupported --regarding the Yates story [yes actually moot now]
What other kind of support would be required?
Right before I finished typing this, the name Dempsey Jones is mentioned in the above post.
Jerry, I have come to expect responses such as yours, in reaction to my frequent presentation of verifiable fact that collides with believe systems. Presenting unwelcome, unappreciated verifiable facts to readers who claim to be truth seekers but are actually only seeking confirmation of their biases has cost me much more than I can describe here, now. I guess I continue to do it because a very few, like Mark O'Blazney, thank me, and because I have an inspiration to do it that I have not been able to shut off. "Quickly Wipe that Weapon," Jerry! IOW, just tune out what I bring to these threads.
Ask yourself if you response to my post shares the "tone" of ARRB's Douglas Horne, reacting to facts "unkind" to his ridiculous book review, which he could have revised or deleted,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R8NNVIZE9ITM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
in reaction to presentation of newer facts.:
Douglas Horne:
http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyHorneReacts.jpg
....Your citations seem to me like the detailed biographical information that would be maintained by the same "outfit"....
IOW, Jerry, you only directed a flesh wound at me in response to the facts I shared with you that you also had the option of reacting to with a more appreciative or a neutral tone. Mr. Horne reacted to my message by firing a bazooka round, given the weight of the reputation he had built for himself. Consider also that Mark O'Blazney was Leo Damore's researcher and Damore's and Mark's efforts were foundational for Peter Janney's claims in the initial, 2012 edition of "Mary's Mosaic". There are 493 Amazon reviews of the book. Five star reviews have continued to pour in, ignoring the weight of the facts I presented in August, 2012...that Janney's "not to be found since 1965" (allegedly after his Crump murder trial testimony) "CIA wet work" assassin of Mary Meyer, had been living openly, pursuing a PhD in Berkeley, CA, and afterward, a long teaching career at UC, Hayward, CA.
Jerry, what you describe as my patronizing is possibly confused with sarcasm / amusement in reaction to cult level ignorance fueled narrow vision and arrogance. Consider also that Mr. Simkin, Ed Forum founder, overrode the disciplinary steps he himself had instituted to provide a wall of integrity between himself and moderating decisions when he summarily "busted me" from Ed Forum moderator to "guest" with no posting privileges, remarking that he had failed to "protect" his friend, author Peter Janney, from the impact to his new book my facts caused, (LOL) . IOW, it is easy for you to tell me I am patronizing. Patronizing, compared to what?
Yates's mother was one month pregnant with Yates when her toddler suddenly died. The only reason I looked at this witness's mother was because of his plaintive poem describing her, more than thirty years later. A double "whammy" was that his mother abandoned Ralph Yates. If you have not, consider what Yates's own relatives said about him, combined with the history of mental illness in his family. If I seem patronizing, possibly it is in reaction to the rarity of ANY presentation of original research or INTEREST in such, because the vast majority exhibiting interest in the Kennedy Assassination are more committed to defending an assumption Oswald was "framed" than they are in exploring the question of "how do I know what I know." via pursuit of primary sources, such as the Willcuts Report ( http://jamesforrestal.ariwatch.com/WillcuttsReport.htm ) compared to the "sources" DCdave supports his Ralph Yates presentation with.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/health/death-loved-one-during-pregnancy-may-affect-child-mental-health-study-says/T2Myg2dVJ4BGR6gWs5CrgL/
HEALTH April 08, 2018
By Najja Parker, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Grieving the death of a loved one can affect an entire family, including babies. In fact, losing a relative during pregnancy may affect the mental health of a child later in life, according to a new report.
......
To do so, they examined Swedish infants born between 1973 and 2011 whose mother lost a close relative, such as a sibling, parent, maternal grandparent, the child’s father or her own older child, during her pregnancy.>> Breast cancer patients may help boost survival chances by building muscle, study says They followed those children through adulthood, comparing their health outcomes to kids whose maternal relatives died in the year after their birth. They gathered the data from their medical records and Sweden’s novel prescription drug registry, which contains all prescription drug purchases.Lastly, they considered the impact the death may have had on the fetus, including fetal exposure to maternal stress from bereavement and even changes to family resources or household composition.>> On AJC.com: Is light drinking while pregnant really dangerous?
After analyzing their results, they found that “that prenatal exposure to the death of a maternal relative increases take-up of ADHD medications during childhood and anti-anxiety and depression medications in adulthood,” the researchers wrote in a statement.Furthermore, they discovered the death of a relative up to three generations apart during pregnancy can also create consequences. ...
And Jerry, and Joe.....
Tom Scully 08-09-2015, 11:31 PM#120
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I tnink I'm finally getting the hang of this. Whatever your interpretation of and weighting of this information is, IS WHAT IT IS. If you decide an FBI agent has used wording that fits your beliefs, it
is rock solid, take it to the bank evidence. If the wording in an FBI report seems to undermine your beliefs, you point out it is sourced from the corrupt, malevolent FBI. A newspaper report is worded in
a way you object to, and.....it was planted by the CIA. Heads you win, tails I lose! This is fun......for you......
Rock solid, a game changer weight= a gazillion lbs.: (It is an inaccurate recollection, Yates was still making a pest and a spectacle of himself ten days later, but that must be beside the point?)
(From James Douglass's book...)
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
Yates had still not been discredited. But there was more to come.
During his final, January 4 trip to the FBI office, Ralph Yates was accompanied by his wife, Dorothy. He had asked her to come with him. In an interview forty-two years later, she told me what happened next to her husband. After he completed his (inconclusive) lie-detector test, she said, the FBI told him he needed to go immediately to Woodlawn Hospital, the Dallas hospital for the mentally ill. He drove there with Dorothy. He was admitted that evening as a psychiatric patient. From that point on, he spent the remaining eleven years of his life as a patient in and out of mental health hospitals.[775]
Meaningless, weight= ZERO:
His uncle, J. O. Smith, who went with him on his first trip to the FBI office, said of his nephew’s story, “I really thought that was all just imagination.”[784]
It is an FBI report, it is not signed by Yates, but the wording in it is unique, and it fits the belief system. (J.O. Smith, isn't that the uncle quoted in 2006?)
Rock solid, a game changer weight= a gazillion lbs.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406&search=yates_and+shades#relPageId=422&tab=page
This is a page of an FBI report. It is counter to certain belief systems. FBI is corrupt, untrustworthy, malevolent. Scully, why do you bother to post FBI reports? Are you an FBI defender?
Meaningless, weight= ZERO:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406&relPageId=425&search=yates_and%20shades
Is it penetrating my thick skull? Scully, if we find it disagreeable, you are suspect for even posting it, don't you know the CIA and FBI planted fake reports and newspaper articles and discredited witnesses they happened to just not kill, outright?
If we find it agreeable, as the unique "curtain rod" wording in FBI agent Ben S. Harrison's 27 November reporting of his 26 November Yates interview, it is heartily received, heavily weighted, proclaimed as unimpeachable.
Pardon me, but there are no solid conclusions to be drawn in this instance because all Ralph Yates quotes are sourced from FBI reports and the 42 year old recollections of Yates's widow and uncle conflict with each other. The resolute postures of those who post in this thread and maintain that they know what is definitive and what is not, are unreasonable.
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IOW, Jerry, you only directed a flesh wound at me
Flesh wound? Wow are you ever wound up. All I wrote was a couple of words something like--'wishing I could have asked Yates something'
Jerry, what you describe as my patronizing is possibly confused with sarcasm.
OK well I won't do that any more ::)
The resolute postures of those who post in this thread and maintain that they know what is definitive and what is not, are unreasonable.
Well that happens sometimes.
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Jerry, this is your post. Own it!
Actually, it was my thread on Larry Crafard...then this entire page was consumed by your [apparent] rebuttal of the Yates story.
Which is OK. I am always open to scrutiny-examination and stuff. One thing is that concerning the Yates report...of course...if true.. the FBI could have absolutely none of it. So in light of everything else--it had to be not true.
Polygraphs :-\ Ever taken one? I have and they yield some surprising results sometimes.
Another thing is why would Mr Yates have lied? He suffered a possible inherited mental condition the FBI wanted all to think.
His aunt and uncle were considered a couple of wackos so he must be too? From what I understand, Mr Yates and his family underwent an incredible ordeal. Did Mr Yates report the incident because he was mental or did the entire episode drive him mental?
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Actually, it was my thread on Larry Crafard...then this entire page was consumed by your [apparent] rebuttal of the Yates story.
Which is OK. I am always open to scrutiny-examination and stuff. One thing is that concerning the Yates report...of course...if true.. the FBI could have absolutely none of it. So in light of everything else--it had to be not true.
Polygraphs :-\ Ever taken one? I have and they yield some surprising results sometimes.
Another thing is why would Mr Yates have lied? He suffered a possible inherited mental condition the FBI wanted all to think.
His aunt and uncle were considered a couple of wackos so he must be too? From what I understand, Mr Yates and his family underwent an incredible ordeal. Did Mr Yates report the incident because he was mental or did the entire episode drive him mental?
Jerry, did anyone other, aside from you or I, post links to reference materials about Crafard, in this thread?
Jerry, have you ever taken a polygraph and the operator could establish no baseline because you registered no emotion? If not, I do not see your point. If you cannot dismiss Yates because you believe the FBI, his co-worker, Jones, his employer, the Meat Market customer of his employer, Yate's uncle, at least one cousin, doctors at Parkland, and at mental institutions were ALL(even if independently) "doing things" to marginalize the sensational claims of Ralph Yates by "reducing Yates" to a blithering idiot, I am not all that frustrated about your indifference to major things I have proven.
You seem impressed, somehow, with Yates's claims. I have proven Priscilla testified to HSCA that her father's death in 1969 was a "concealed suicide," and independent of her testimony, but the reason I noticed it, is because the last person to see Stuart Johnson alive and later reported him missing, James A Thomas, Jr., of Locust Valley, was a cousin of Allen Dulles.
http://archive.is/esTuB
I have proven the man sitting between Marina and Priscilla in December, 1963, was married to the aunt of this man.:
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293
‘Marina and Lee’ author, 85, one of few that knew both President Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald
.....
https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/UuJA-4OVzv28nAJ90cPS2F04I-Q=/800x632/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AO5DI73QWP3ZLDK6IREGY55SIM.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Clifford
Chair of the President's Intelligence Advisory Board
In office April 23, 1963 – February 29, 1968
I have also proven that the uncle of this same "Chair" employed James Phelan as a journalist from 1932 to 1947 at the Alton Evening Telegraph.
But let us all dwell instead on Ralph Yates, on "Rapidly wiping a weapon", and on Mrs. Robert A Reid! What say you, Jerry?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57760&search=yates#relPageId=6&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesPolygraph.jpg)
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
...Other relatives and friends dismissed Ralph’s account of the Oswald-like hitchhiker with the curtain rods package as pure fantasy.
His uncle, J. O. Smith, who went with him on his first trip to the FBI office, said of his nephew’s story, “I really thought that was all just imagination.”[784]
His cousin, Ken Smith, remembers Ralph before Kennedy’s death as nothing more than “a chain-smoker who watched football games.”[785] Once Ralph had what he thought was his Oswald experience, Ken said, he became a man obsessed:
“He wouldn’t let it go. He believed it to be true. This consumed Ralph. His thinking didn’t go beyond that afterwards. This just totally destroyed his life.
“Ralph blamed himself for Kennedy’s assassination. He said, ‘I was the reason the President got killed.’
“If he had shut up, his life wouldn’t have been so bad. Everybody thought he was crazy. So he became crazy.”[786]
Even Ralph’s co-worker and corroborating witness, Dempsey Jones, who confirmed to the FBI that Yates told him at least one day before the assassination about the hitchhiker’s talk on shooting the president, was skeptical. As the FBI liked to point out, he added a disclaimer: “[Jones] said Yates is a big talker who always talks about a lot of foolishness.”[787]
...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95617&relPageId=21&search=dempsey_jones%20and%20ralph
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesDempseyJones.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95617&search=dempsey_jones+and+ralph#relPageId=23&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesBoss.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57760&relPageId=145&search=dempsey_and%20yates
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesRevisedDempseyJones.jpg)
On January 3, 1964, Yates made a claim that was soon refuted by two employees of the business Yates claimed he picked up
a "small check" from, allegedly on behalf of his employer.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=21&tab=page
Statement of employee of Charlies Meat Market:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=22&tab=page
Statement of employee of Charlies Meat Market:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=23&tab=page
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Jerry, have you ever taken a polygraph and the operator could establish no baseline because you registered no emotion?
Polygraph analysis depends very much on the skill of the examiner.
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Mr Crafard's short tour of milatary duty was not fully explained in his testimony....
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you get basic training?
Mr. CRAFARD. Fort Ord.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I was in Fort Ord for 2 months and then I went to Presidio, San Francisco, where I was stationed at an air defense school for a period of 2 months and then I was assigned to D Battery, 2d Missile Battalion, San Francisco Defense Organization.
From there I went to Germany in April of 1959. I was transferred to Germany to Deisley Kersne, and I was stationed with the D Battery, 2d Missile Battalion there. I stayed there until November of 1959 then I was transferred back to the United States where I was discharged November 10, 1959.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you serve altogether?
Mr. CRAFARD. Thirteen months.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that the usual tour?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir. The usual tour is 3 to 4 years.
Mr. HUBERT. Well now, what caused you to get out sooner?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I understand it is the next thing to a medical discharge.
Mr. HUBERT. What was it based upon, do you know?
Mr. CRAFARD. General, under honorable conditions.
Mr. HUBERT. You have a discharge reading general, under honorable conditions and you are now taking from your pocket a document which is a photostatic copy, I take it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; DD214.
Crafard did not state the specific reason for his release and counsel did not press him on it [Don't ask Don't tell?] Because of that, I suspect it could have been due to sexual conduct.
Originally, individuals were not removed from service because of their sexual orientation; it was the sexual act of sodomy (anal and oral sex between two men) that was the crime and justification for dismissal from military service... During the 1940s, the military used psychiatry's determination of homosexuality as a mental illness to justify discharging gay soldiers; in the 1950s, homosexuals were determined to be particularly vulnerable to blackmail and thus a threat to national security.. Although men were being discharged for homosexual behavior during these early years, there was no clear guidance on the matter and thus commanders were imposing the discharges at their own discretion.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918360903054137
Jack Ruby had a reputation around town of being gay/bi....had a liaison with George Senator [his room mate]
Was the Ruby/Crafard relationship all it was cracked up to be and again...Why did Crafard skip town the day after the assassination?
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.Why did Crafard skip town the day after the assassination?
It’s been a hunch of mine that he left town with Igor Vaganov. Vaganov was a telecommunications technician. It has also been a hunch of mine that Ruby used these guys to collect information, and build telecom channels out of the Carousel. This is highly speculative stuff, to be sure.
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Thank you!
Hey Michael, I expect you have the same disdain for inaccuracy as I do. It warmed my heart to read your recently posted advice to an Ed Forum member to pursue original sources to learn more, instead of relying on the details Kennedy Assassination book authors elect to publish. (and then to stubbornly stand by, likely out of profit and perceived reputation preservation, considerations.)
I know from reading a recent Ed Forum post by you that you will understand why this will be perceived as "rain" on the recently announced, "The Counter Revolution Has Begun," parade. No malice intended, merely posted in service to the truth owed to the readers of this Yahoo News announcement.
Destiny Betrayed: JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case
https://books.google.com.... (https://books.google.com/books?id=Gcf19iJnAk4C&pg=PT423&dq=dieugenio+destiny+betrayed+david+baldwin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi45qu7yJrlAhUFd6wKHXtLBUAQ6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=dieugenio%20destiny%20betrayed%20david%20baldwin&f=false)
James DiEugenio - 2012
Found inside
JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case James DiEugenio ... William Martin had learned from Clay Shaw's friend David Baldwin, that some of the money for Sheridan's show was being funneled through the large law firm of Monroe and Lemann in ...
AGC Television Picks up Worldwide on Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK: Destiny Betrayed’
Variety
John Hopewell
VarietyOctober 13, 2019
First comment, below the above article
I like Jim DiEugenio personally, and I think he usually does good work, but in this instance, Jim is actually protecting Nicholas B. Lemann, author of the 1992 article published in GQ Magazine attacking, Garrison and co-screenplay writers of "JFK the Movie, Oliver Stone and Zachary Sklar. Sklar also served as editor of Garrison's autobiography. Garrison failed to reveal to Sklar or to author Joan Mellen a detail Clay Shaw had learned in March, 1967, from former CIA agent and Shaw Trademart employee, David G. Baldwin, III, that Garrison's wife, "Liz" Ziegler Garrison, was first cousin of Baldwin and his brother, Edward, and godchild of David. David G. Baldwin's wife was step-sister of WDSU outside counsel Garrison informed the FCC in a June, 1967, letter, was distributing Central Intelligence Agency funds to attorneys representing subjects of interest in Garrison's investigation. This WDSU counsel, Stephen B. Lemann, and his brother Thomas, were on file with the WDSU, FCC license application as each owning ten perecent or more of Royal Street, the holding company owning WDSU. Thomas B. Lemann happens to be the father of Nicholas B. Lemann.
Unfortunately, there are major issues with author DiEugenio's version of Jim Garrison, his investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, and the indictmrnt and prosecution of Clay Shaw that have been presented to Jim DiEugenio and he has failed to address.: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?17025-The-Crimes-of-Quillette&p=126009#post126009
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LemannWDSUFCC022067.jpg)
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
Tom S. April 12, 2016 at 1:25 pm
Although I am credited as a contributor to Ms. Mellen’s book, “Our Man in Haiti,” my entire body of research results influence me to share an opinion that the description of Joan Mellen in this article is overdone….
She first met Jim Garrison just months after the Clay Shaw trial in 1969 and described interviewing more than 1200 people before publishing her book on Jim Garrison, “Farewell to Justice.”
More than 30 years after she first met Jim Garrison and in addition to much other research and interviewing 1200 people, this was the crux and the emphasis of Joan Mellen’s presentation on the best supported CIA influences/interference on Garrison’s investigation and his prosecution of Clay Shaw.
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –
JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….
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It’s been a hunch of mine that he left town with Igor Vaganov. Vaganov was a telecommunications technician. It has also been a hunch of mine that Ruby used these guys to collect information, and build telecom channels out of the Carousel. This is highly speculative stuff, to be sure.
OK I'll bite. Where does Crafard play into it?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10415#relPageId=11&tab=page
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OK I'll bite. Where does Crafard play into it?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10415#relPageId=11&tab=page
Well, It’s so speculative that I should not have shared it. I tried to come up with a good response but I can’t really cover the ground that led had me thinking that 2 years ago. I have forgotten what led me to that hunch. I did try to share my thoughts on Crafard at the ED forum on this thread... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23787-phone-lines-crafard-and-senator-at-the-carousel/.
I did not tie Vaganov into it very much, if at all, at that time. Thanks for the recent post on Vaganov.