JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Brian Doyle on October 01, 2019, 10:27:38 PM

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 01, 2019, 10:27:38 PM
Listen from minute mark 6:55 to 16 minutes in this video of Gary Mack interviewing Frazier in 2002...Frazier describes staying put after the lady came up saying the president was shot...Mack is very inquisitive and gets Frazier to confirm the staying still on the steps after the announcement from the hysterical lady was for 3 or 4 minutes...Frazier then said he tried to follow Lovelady & Shelley up the extension but since they lost him he turned back and went back to the steps...

Frazier then makes clear that the lady he was standing with was still there after this little jaunt up the Elm St extension and return...Frazier then told Sarah his little walk did him no good and then he and Sarah went back inside...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

(Don't think Kamp and his website were not fully aware of all this and holding it back)...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 02, 2019, 01:48:15 AM

This knocks Kamp's selection for Stanton out of contention...Frazier says he and the lady he was standing with stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after the shots...

Kamp's bogus selection for Stanton can't be her because not only is she too far away to speak to but Darnell is 25-30 seconds after the shots and Kamp's Stanton has moved substantially away from the landing...Frazier was clear they both stood there for 3 minutes - so that disproves Kamp's selection for Stanton...Is this part of the "good research" DiEugenio says they are doing on Kamp's site?...Not only that but Stanton is still in the same place when Frazier returns from the extension...That conclusively eliminates Kamp's bogus choice...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 02, 2019, 02:28:52 AM
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If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm. Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

Brian,

1) As I've said, five minutes "works" for me.

2) In his 2013 SFM interview, Frazier says he was standing at the corner of Houston Street and Elm Street (i.e., at the corner of the TSBD where the plaque is) when he saw Oswald walking up the TSBD side of Houston Street towards him, that Oswald was within 10 or 12 feet of him when he crosses over to the other side of Houston Street.  Frazier says he watched Oswald start to cross Elm Street ("as though he was going to get a sandwich, or something"), and that he (Frazoer) then turned to answer someone's question and when he looked back towards Elm Street, Oswald "was gone".

Nitpicky Point being: Frazier couldn't have seen Oswald leave the dock area from where he was standing, but did correctly deduce that that was where Oswald had come from.

--  MWT  ;)



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 06:18:52 AM
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Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

You’re a liar and a fabricator because you keep claiming that Frazier said they stared at each other for the longest time.

Quote
If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

He didn’t say he saw Oswald “come from the rear exit”. That’s another fabrication.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 06:22:44 AM
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This knocks Kamp's selection for Stanton out of contention...Frazier says he and the lady he was standing with stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after the shots...

Another fabrication. He never says that the lady he was with was on the landing at all, much less that she stayed on the landing.

Quote
Kamp's bogus selection for Stanton can't be her because not only is she too far away to speak to but Darnell is 25-30 seconds after the shots and Kamp's Stanton has moved substantially away from the landing...

Bull. You could stand anywhere in the entryway and speak to someone anywhere else in the entryway. You’ve obviously never been there.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 02, 2019, 06:35:15 AM

Why do I get the sense with Iacoletti that he doesn't see himself chasing his own tail like everyone else does?...

I delivered the goods there with Frazier detailing the 3 minute staying still...That's when they stared at each other for the longest time...

We can now consign Iacoletti to the annoying gadfly category since he's not man enough to admit when he's wrong...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 07:06:56 AM
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I delivered the goods there with Frazier detailing the 3 minute staying still...That's when they stared at each other for the longest time...

He didn’t say they stayed still for 3 minutes. You fabricated that too. You just can’t help yourself.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 02:15:48 AM
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You’re a liar and a fabricator because you keep claiming that Frazier said they stared at each other for the longest time.

He didn’t say he saw Oswald “come from the rear exit”. That’s another fabrication.

You are right again John.

Also, in Buell Frazier's first recorded video he doesn't even remember the name of the woman he said stood next to him. Her name should have been embedded into his brain since that was an important moment in his life. 

And finally what defeats Doyle's phony claim is, every interview that Buell Frazier has given over the years, he always gestures with his left hand to where he says Sarah Stanton was standing. It is never to his right where Doyle falsely claims. Frazier also very clearly says in an interview that Stanton was to his left and he made that very clear. That ends Doyle's phony claim by Buell Frazier himself, since he never said he was "staring for the longest time in shock".That is just more fabrication. We also know that Sarah Stanton's testimony refutes the rest of this tale.   
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 03, 2019, 05:31:47 AM
And if that weren’t enough, Pauline Sanders said that she was on the east end side of the entrance, and that Sanders was next to her. Doyle fails on every count.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 03, 2019, 07:12:27 AM
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...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but ..


Okay..... and...?  It is easier read while humming, "Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye Aye"
Quote
https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/dexys-midnight-runners/come-on-eileen (Come on, Eileen) Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye Aye

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…...
Quote
07-09-2015, 09:52 PM  #402 (Al)bert Doyle 

FBI is lying Scully. They do so carefully by saying Rizzuto claimed Oswald was in the Village after returning from the Soviet Union. But a look at the claim would reveal the record shows the evidence Rizzuto was telling the FBI actually showed Oswald was in New York in 1961 and 1962 before the defecting Oswald returned from the Soviet Union. The Voice article was based on deceptive disinformation from the FBI in their attempt to discredit Steven Harris Landesberg and his explosive revelation that Oswald was seen with FBI provocateur Steven Richard Landesberg in New York. What FBI did was set-up SH Landesberg as being the same person as the provocateur who used the alias "L'eandes". As the evidence SH Landesberg was trying to reveal shows, L'Eandes was Steven Richard Landesberg. FBI knew this was dangerous so they screwed SH Landesberg and claimed he was L'eandes (As the inaccurate Village​ Voice article relates). That way they could commit him and not investigate the rest of the evidence that showed SR Landesberg was a provocateur who worked with the real Lee Harvey Oswald while a CIA imposter was in Russia.

Read the Education Forum Harvey & Lee thread to catch up.

Quote
http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/01/armstrong-evolving-landesberg-theory.html

John Armstrong and His Evolving Landesberg Theory
January 06, 2017 by W Tracy Parnell

...Armstrong called this revised piece The Story of Two “Steven Landesbergs” because he has now added the late actor Steve Landesberg of Barney Miller fame to his literary lunacy...

....UPDATE: Armstrong has removed all references to the “3 am Interview.”
However, because of an FBI document located by researcher Tom Scully,
.....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
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Since a few select people like to loosely and freely bandy about the term truth as if it had no real consequence, well okay then, let us explore that word truth for a little awhile shall we?

Are we to believe that Sarah Stanton didn't know where she was standing at that most memorable point in time and probably the most memorable moment in time in her entire life when the sitting President of the United States was murdered?

Are we also to believe that Sarah Stanton cannot ascertain the difference between actual steps and a flat patio-like landing at her very own very familiar place of employment?

Are we then to further believe that Mrs Stanton had repeatedly and purposely lied outright when she stated on three separate occasions that she was "On the front steps" during the assassination and therefore could not be in and therefore was not in the so called Prayer Woman spot where there are no more steps available?

Are there any more steps available where Prayer Man stands? The short answer to that would be no. He is standing on the flat landing.

Are there any steps available where Sarah Stanton said she was standing on three separate occasions? The short answer to that would be yes, she specifically says she was on the steps and there are steps there.

Should we just throw out all of Sarah's never changing accounting on three separate occasions of exactly where she was standing that day with absolutely no good reason to lie? The short answer to that would be of course not, but if you must entertain the idea that she is in fact lying about where she was standing, then you do so at your own peril and at the lofty cost of your very own credibility.

I am asking the following questions in good faith and it is my hope to garner good faith answers by those who evidently propose Mrs Stanton was lying when she stated she was 'On the front steps' at the time of the assassination.

Questions:

1. Why should we completely discard Sarah Stanton's entire testimony where she says the same exact thing on three separate occasions and therefore basically accuse her of lying?

2. What could she possibly have to gain by lying on three separate occasions about where she was standing on that fateful afternoon?

3. Why or who would or could possibly coerce her to lie and say she was standing on the steps and for what possible purpose would she be coerced into lying?

4. What is it specifically that gives you suspicion and therefore cause to not believe her sworn testimony?

5. Who would know better where they stood that day than the person that was standing there themselves?

6. Can you reliably and with complete certainty place her elsewhere other than where she says she was?

Anyone?

Moving along now to the actual evidence.

Let us now check the actual record and see what Sarah Stanton herself actually has to say about this, you know, the one who was actually there "on the front steps" that day just as she stated at the time of the assassination and therefore was not on and could not be on the flat patio-like landing of those steps back in the corner where Prayer Man stands.

These three following quotes from her actual sworn testimony are brought to you by the courtesy of a poster named John Iacoletti and another poster named Rick Plant who are to be highly commended for their efforts in bringing this testimony forward.

There is no room for conjecture nor is there any room for speculation involved in the testimony that you are about to read by Sarah Stanton herself.

It is not hearsay and therefore cannot be refuted. Any attempt to do so is engaging in a mere masturbatory carnival like folly by those who evidently just like to hear themselves type or just to see their printed comments on a message board.

Take it away Sarah Stanton:

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady. I heard three shots after the President’s car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President’s car at that time. I cannot say positively where the shots came from. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day."

Excellent post Christina. It's amazing how some posters will completely disregard actual documented testimony in favor of their made up fiction pretending that what they claim are facts. Take the case of Sarah Stanton here. She testified to what she actually did on that day describing it in detail to the FBI. She absolutely had no reason to lie and only spoke of what she was doing after she heard the shots. But Doyle needs to disregard what she stated in favor of his theory of her being prayer woman, while adding his own fabricated stories so he can claim he is correct. If you want to be a credible researcher, you can't ignore and disregard what a credible witness testifies to. You certainly can't fabricate or make up stories that don't exist to prove a claim. And that is exactly what we have here.  Don't think they will be answering your questions because it defeats their claim. What Stanton testified to and what Frazier stated in interviews (about Stanton being to his left), puts an end to this Stanton "prayer woman" nonsense.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Matthew Finch on October 03, 2019, 01:04:38 PM
Spot on in every possible way, Christina (and hence Rick and John). At the risk of using one of his own terms against him, Mr. Doyle is completely uncredibele until he can refute each of those points (and er, post photos to confim).
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 03, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
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Since a few select people like to loosely and freely bandy about the term truth as if it had no real consequence, well okay then, let us explore that word truth for a little awhile shall we?

Are we to believe that Sarah Stanton didn't know where she was standing at that most memorable point in time and probably the most memorable moment in time in her entire life when the sitting President of the United States was murdered?

Are we also to believe that Sarah Stanton cannot ascertain the difference between actual steps and a flat patio-like landing at her very own very familiar place of employment?

Are we then to further believe that Mrs Stanton had repeatedly and purposely lied outright when she stated on three separate occasions that she was "On the front steps" during the assassination and therefore could not be in and therefore was not in the so called Prayer Woman spot where there are no more steps available?

Are there any more steps available where Prayer Man stands? The short answer to that would be no. He is standing on the flat landing.

Are there any steps available where Sarah Stanton said she was standing on three separate occasions? The short answer to that would be yes, she specifically says she was on the steps and there are steps there.

Should we just throw out all of Sarah's never changing accounting on three separate occasions of exactly where she was standing that day with absolutely no good reason to lie? The short answer to that would be of course not, but if you must entertain the idea that she is in fact lying about where she was standing, then you do so at your own peril and at the lofty cost of your very own credibility.

I am asking the following questions in good faith and it is my hope to garner good faith answers by those who evidently propose Mrs Stanton was lying when she stated she was 'On the front steps' at the time of the assassination.

Questions:

1. Why should we completely discard Sarah Stanton's entire testimony where she says the same exact thing on three separate occasions and therefore basically accuse her of lying?

2. What could she possibly have to gain by lying on three separate occasions about where she was standing on that fateful afternoon?

3. Why or who would or could possibly coerce her to lie and say she was standing on the steps and for what possible purpose would she be coerced into lying?

4. What is it specifically that gives you suspicion and therefore cause to not believe her sworn testimony?

5. Who would know better where they stood that day than the person that was standing there themselves?

6. Can you reliably and with complete certainty place her elsewhere other than where she says she was?

Anyone?

Moving along now to the actual evidence.

Let us now check the actual record and see what Sarah Stanton herself actually has to say about this, you know, the one who was actually there "on the front steps" that day just as she stated at the time of the assassination and therefore was not on and could not be on the flat patio-like landing of those steps back in the corner where Prayer Man stands.

These three following quotes from her actual sworn testimony are brought to you by the courtesy of a poster named John Iacoletti and another poster named Rick Plant who are to be highly commended for their efforts in bringing this testimony forward.

There is no room for conjecture nor is there any room for speculation involved in the testimony that you are about to read by Sarah Stanton herself.

It is not hearsay and therefore cannot be refuted. Any attempt to do so is engaging in a mere masturbatory carnival like folly by those who evidently just like to hear themselves type or just to see their printed comments on a message board.

Take it away Sarah Stanton:

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady. I heard three shots after the President’s car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President’s car at that time. I cannot say positively where the shots came from. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day."

Can you specify specifically whom you are accusing to have called SarahDeanStanton a liar?

Can you provide specific quoted testimony specifically from SarahDeanStanton stating that she was standing "on the front steps", and not standing on the top step/landing as filmed at aproximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

Can you provide specific PersonImage identity specifically identifying said PersonImage representing SarahDeanStanton standing "on the front steps", and not on the top step/landing in the PrayerPersonImage location as filmed at approximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

And, can you provide specific PersonImage identity specifically indicating said PersonImage representing Mrs TE Saunders standing "on the front steps" at approximately 12:30pm CST, on 11/22/'63?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 09:11:21 PM
Larry, didn't you read Sarah Stanton's own FBI testimony? Why are you still denying it?

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Can you provide specific quoted testimony specifically from SarahDeanStanton stating that she was standing "on the front steps", and not standing on the top step/landing as filmed at aproximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady.

This is specific quoted testimony from Sarah Stanton herself stating she was standing on the front steps. What more do you want? It specifically states that she was standing on the front steps, not on the top step landing. Not sure why people don't want to accept Stanton's own testimony that she was on the front steps and not on the top landing. Maybe because her testimony refutes their phony theory?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 03, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
 
Quote
    A picture is worth a thousand words but a blurry one is worth millions!

                                                                                Anonymous Individual

Here we go with another million---- Someone has failed to see.....
(https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/6238777_1866389threadclosedpng1560af053613b88c7f861a044fac2bf3_png19dcbd68d9e4f17d8d29e10187645e2a)


Wished it would say "And please don't start another one for crying out loud"
But...whatever gets you off  :-\
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 04, 2019, 07:07:18 PM
Mrs. Stanton's loved ones made every good faith attempt to set you straight, Mr. Doyle, ---->


but 99.9% of what they shared with you fell upon pretend deaf ears...because it did not fit your false narrative.

Specifically they couldn't have been more insistent w/you about in comparison to others that afternoon their loved one was the largest individual on scene in terms of her weight. For clarity sake, that doesn't make her any less of a human being, may G-d rest her soul...but

even the big bad wolf knew at some point--no matter how much he howled or huffed & puffed--that he was incapable of blowing down a solid foundation of brick.

The genuine evidence here is akin to a solid foundation of brick (Mrs. Stanton did not have a receding hairline; moreover, her hair was "white", premature gray on the day of the assassination; and, the genuine Prayer Man fits into her girth several times over).

Moving forward, please leave this family out of your shenanigans. It would be the respectful & responsible thing to do. Rest in Peace, Mrs. Stanton, may G-d rest your soul dear lady. Stand Down, Mr. Doyle, Stand Down!








 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 05, 2019, 04:21:38 AM
  Listen to 1:10 Right off the bat-------
Quote
https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
In case no one noticed...In the video--Wes Frazier said that he "thought the shots came from above".
That is not how he testified before the Commission......
Quote
Mr. BALL - That close. [the shots]
Now, you say you heard these three sounds which you later thought were probably shots, you thought it came from a certain direction.
Can you tell us from what direction as illustrated on the map?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Now I say, you know where it is the straight curve that goes under the underpass.
Mr. BALL - That is the parkway?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. I say it runs over this parkway, you don't have it on here--anyway, I say these railroad tracks there is a series of them that come up over this, up over this overpass there, and from where I was standing, I say, it is my true opinion, that is what I thought, it sounded like it came from over there, in the railroad tracks.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 05, 2019, 06:38:30 AM
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Two thumbs up!  Thumb1:
What say ye, Mr. Trotter, How about daring to make some direct responses to more than a few Good Faith questions...

If it is your assertion that SarahDeahStanton testified that she was not on the top step/landing as filmed at about 12:30pm CST, and/or the time of the assassination of JFKSr and wounding of JBCJr, it is you that needs to provide a direct link to her testimony under oath/sworn statement making said claim. ::)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 07, 2019, 05:22:50 PM
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If it is your assertion that SarahDeahStanton testified that she was not on the top step/landing as filmed at about 12:30pm CST, and/or the time of the assassination of JFKSr and wounding of JBCJr, it is you that needs to provide a direct link to her testimony under oath/sworn statement making said claim. ::)

On the contrary, it is Not my assertion to deny Mrs. Stanton being up on the front landing....In fact, it is my assertion she was right up there. However, the difference between the plain simple truth and what Mr. Doyle is trying desperately to pass off as "truth" & "evidence" is two different things altogether.

Here's the plain simple truth ----->

1
DL 100-10461
ARS/cms
"March 19, 1964
Dallas, Texas
"I, Mrs . Robert E . (Pauline) Sanders, Sr ., freely
furnish the following statement to Eugene F . Petrakis and A .
Raymond Switzer, who have identified themselves to me as
Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation .
"I am a Caucasian female employed as a clerk acrountant
at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm
Street, Dallas, Texas . I have been so employed for the past
61' years . I reside at 4226 Delmar Street, Dallas, Texas, and
was born November 6, 1908, Moran, Kansas .
"At approximately 12 :20 PM on November 22, 1963,
I left the lunchroom on the second floor of the building and
went out the front entrance to await the arrival of the Presi
dential Motorcade which I knew was due to pass the Depository
building at about 12 :30 PM . I took up a position at the top
of the front steps of the Depository building facing Elm Street .
To the best of my recollection I was standing on the top step
at the east end of the entrance .
"I recall that while standing there I noticed Mrs .
Sarah Stanton standing next to me, but I am unsure as to the
others . Mrs . Stanton is likewise an employee of the Texas
School Book Depository .
"To the best of my recollection I did not see Lee
Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and although
I knew him by sight as an employee of the building I did not
know him by name and had never spoken to him at any time .
"I do not recall seeing any strangers in the Texas
School Book Depository building at any time on the morning
of November 22, 1963 .
"After the motorcade par carrying President John F .
Kennedy passed, I remained a moment on the steps, then walked
out to the concrete island in front of the Depository building
to see what had happened . I remained there a moment and then
returned to the Depository building through the main entrance .
I then walked to the second floor where I usually work .
82
COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1381-Continued
2
DL 100-10461
"At approximately 2 :20 PM, I was told I could
leave the building and after signing out with a police
officer on the first floor, I left and returned to my
residence .
"I have read this and the two preceding pages
of th.s statement, initialed each page and each correction and
find it true and correct to the best of a0' knowledge .
"/s/Mrs . Robert E . Sanders, Sr .
"Witness :
"/s/Eugene F . Petrakis, Special Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas
3/19/64
"/s/A . Raymond Switzer, Special Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas
3/19/64 ."
83

As most of us can clearly comprehend here (because we have no false narrative to push), Mrs. Stanton was nowhere near Prayer Man's specific position over in the opposite corner of where she and Mrs. Sanders (Pauline) stood.

That said, due to three different filming sequences, which all capture Prayer Man continuously holding down his specific position throughout those different filming sequences, Mrs. Stanton cannot be Prayer Man, because she was over in the opposite corner, quote, standing next to me, unquote per Mrs. Sanders.

Where were both these women standing? Take it away once again, Mrs. Sanders -----> the east end of the front entrance, which rules Mrs. Stanton Out as the still unidentified male standing over in the opposite corner of their position.

Mr. Doyle needs to come clean, admit his mistake and move forward with a clean slate. Continuing to shovel horse manure isn't going to change its stench.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 07, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
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On the contrary, it is Not my assertion to deny Mrs. Stanton being up on the front landing....In fact, it is my assertion she was right up there. However, the difference between the plain simple truth and what Mr. Doyle is trying desperately to pass off as "truth" & "evidence" is two different things altogether.

Here's the plain simple truth ----->

…...

As most of us can clearly comprehend here (because we have no false narrative to push), Mrs. Stanton was nowhere near Prayer Man's specific position over in the opposite corner of where she and Mrs. Sanders (Pauline) stood.

That said, due to three different filming sequences, which all capture Prayer Man continuously holding down his specific position throughout those different filming sequences, Mrs. Stanton cannot be Prayer Man, because she was over in the opposite corner, quote, standing next to me, unquote per Mrs. Sanders.

Where were both these women standing? Take it away once again, Mrs. Sanders -----> the east end of the front entrance, which rules Mrs. Stanton Out as the still unidentified male standing over in the opposite corner of their position.

Mr. Doyle needs to come clean, admit his mistake and move forward with a clean slate. Continuing to shovel horse manure isn't going to change its stench.

Close the thread, now? No, no, no....all of the witnesses lied!

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MolinaWilliamsSanders.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/MolinaSandersEastSide.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 07, 2019, 06:56:30 PM
Mr. Doyle,

Before you even attempt to cower away from or turn a blind eye to Mr. Scully's timely contributions, citing the statements of Mr. Williams and Mr. Molina, just be mindful both of these gentlemen put themselves in close proximity of Mrs. Sanders. Mr. Williams goes even so far as to specifically share his precise whereabouts, quote, "against the railing on the East side of the steps in front of the building".

When we add Mr. Molina placing himself there w/Mr. Williams and Mrs. Sanders, it's clear they are confirming her whereabouts, quote, "the East end" of the front entrance; and, according to Mrs. Sanders' own statement we know specifically where Mrs. Stanton was that afternoon, quote, "standing next to me".

Moreover, albeit somewhat later than the actual assassination sequence, lest you forget, Mr. Lovelady said the following while confirming he was doorway man, quote,  "Several people saw me. That lady shielding her eyes works here on the second floor." He could have only meant Mrs. Sanders or Mrs. Stanton as they were the only two workers standing there who worked upon the second floor. More specifically though, as we all can see in that famous Altgen's photo the lady shielding her eyes is over in the East end of the entrance, whether she be Mrs. Sanders or Mrs. Stanton standing next to her.

Come clean, Mr. Doyle, muster up the decency to admit you are forcing a false narrative to suit your "truth" & "evidence". Explain to the rest of us why we should believe you (someone 55+ years removed from the actual event) over those who were physically present? Are you a time-traveler, Mr. Doyle?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 07, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
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Listen from minute mark 6:55 to 16 minutes in this video of Gary Mack interviewing Frazier in 2002...Frazier describes staying put after the lady came up saying the president was shot...Mack is very inquisitive and gets Frazier to confirm the staying still on the steps after the announcement from the hysterical lady was for 3 or 4 minutes...Frazier then said he tried to follow Lovelady & Shelley up the extension but since they lost him he turned back and went back to the steps...

Frazier then makes clear that the lady he was standing with was still there after this little jaunt up the Elm St extension and return...Frazier then told Sarah his little walk did him no good and then he and Sarah went back inside...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

(Don't think Kamp and his website were not fully aware of all this and holding it back)...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

    Let's face it. Frazier is Not a reliable witness. 40 years after the fact Frazier suddenly recalls seeing Oswald walking up Houston St immediately after the assassination? And likewise 40-50 years later Frazier recalls coming close to going toe-to-toe with Fritz on the night of 11/22/63? These most recent Porky Pies coming from Frazier should be put back in the oven. They are Half Baked.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 07, 2019, 08:46:49 PM

BrianDoyle can speak for himself, but I maintain the reached conclusion that PrayerPersonImage most likely represents SarahDeanStanton. And, considering the "east side" top step/landing area likely measured no more than about 21 square feet on 11/22/'63, I believe it is unlikely that SarahDeanStanton and PaulineRebmanSanders were both in the northeast corner of said small area.

I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

In any event, those persons who wish to think otherwise, that of course is their choice. However, any claim that PrayerPersonImage represents LeeHarveyOswald appears to be an assertion beyond evidence.

That said, it would be nice to have a statement by BuellWesleyFrazier indicative of the proper identity of the person represented by PrayerPersonImage for consideration.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 07, 2019, 09:35:39 PM
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BrianDoyle can speak for himself, but I maintain the reached conclusion that PrayerPersonImage most likely represents SarahDeanStanton. And, considering the "east side" top step/landing area likely measured no more than about 21 square feet on 11/22/'63, I believe it is unlikely that SarahDeanStanton and PaulineRebmanSanders were both in the northeast corner of said small area.

I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

In any event, those persons who wish to think otherwise, that of course is their choice. However, any claim that PrayerPersonImage represents LeeHarveyOswald appears to be an assertion beyond evidence.

That said, it would be nice to have a statement by BuellWesleyFrazier indicative of the proper identity of the person represented by PrayerPersonImage for consideration.

    Somebody needs to explain why after 55+ years the eyewitnesses that were at Ground Zero on 11/22/63 have Not been sat down and shown JFK Assassination Images and queried as to: (1) What they saw, (2) Who was where, (3) Their itinerary following the kill shot, etc. Methodically doing this with The Newman's, SA Clint Hill, Dave Wiegman, Mary Moorman and others still alive would easily resolve many peripheral issues such as Prayer Man. With Buell Frazier often doing Road Shows makes it a dereliction of duty on the part of the JFK Research Community for an issue such as this to still be knocking around.     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 07, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
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I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

There is no “corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information“.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: George Gustafson on October 09, 2019, 01:39:28 AM
Gentleman,

It appears that the worm has definitely turned on this  non starter of a non issue thread that God only knows why was started in the first place. I am thinking it is a case of glaring ineptitude on the part of some here as to why it was even started to begin with.

Is it April 1st? I know of another thread that was started on April 1 right here on this site as well. I know that thread very, very well as very concise and lengthy evidence was collected from that thread and now this one too I might add.

But the problem here is the evidence and it doesn't go against anyone else but you who even went so far as to have started this thread.

First it was the Prayer Woman thread on this very site that started this garbage, and now this horse shyte of a thread claiming "proof"...what next being forced  to watch someone named Brian Doyle washing cars in the nude?

At this juncture, I do believe I would be well advised to leave the entire Stanton family alone and completely out of this entire JFK picture altogether.

It's very simple. Just never mention their name again and walk away and call it a day.

It is more than abundantly clear what the evidence repeatedly states, both the oral as well as the visual evidence all inclusive.

Frankly it is now bordering on sheer harassment of this entire Stanton family by some here, and a fight or flight sense of one up man ship seems to be the order of the day and by necessity, nefariously leads up the charge.

I strongly suggest that this can no longer continue and will ultimately lead to no where else but a very long and contentious courtroom environment. Please also be advised that you are playing with a raging wildfire here.

Some here are treading on very, very thin ice and if they persist and wish to lose everything under the sun that they may have ever happened to own and have it taken away from them as a part of a court settlement, yet still be indebted to any familial offspring plaintiff in this matter for the rest of their life in the future, then it is crystal clear to the viewing audience that this needs to stop right here and it needs to stop right now.

Cease and Desist.

I am very surprised that the Stanton Family et al  hasn't filed a defamation and slander/libel suit yet, I really am.

Perhaps they aren't aware?

Any US Federal Court Judge in the entire land would see fit to do so if these charges were brought to bare front and center. I guarantee it. Slick as a whistle. Slam dunk case.

Who knows, maybe I'll personally give them a call myself and offer to represent them pro bono should they so desire as compiled from the vast amount of evidence available here at this web site as well as at the Prayer Woman Facebook web site.

An old barrister friend and staunch courtroom opponent of mine that I adored immensely by the way, once said to me - "George? The only evidence at the scene of the crime and the only evidence in the aftermath of the scene of the crime is the evidence we missed, otherwise it's all still there, see, hiding in plain sight, waiting to be found"

My point here is absolutely nothing of value evidence wise was found to be useful with regards to Sarah Stanton as is evidenced by all of the previous posts here. There is nothing more to look for and anything more pertaining to the Stanton name even being mentioned any longer is sheer harassment and can now be proven in a court of law.

There is a lot of potential documented evidence out there on the internet right now being written about the surname Stanton, needlessly to begin with by the way, but now, now it is just pure harassment to continue to even utter the name Stanton on any JFK site ever again nor attempt to contact them at all in any way in the future.

The audacity of some to drag this poor family's name through this muck all over  the internet and for what?!
 
You are most welcome and oh hey, thanks for the free tip blasted all over the internet about the Stanton family name which gave me an idea to check on a potential liability lawsuit on behalf of the Stanton family, and as it turns out, we have a solid case.

I will also have you know, we lawyers can never, ever sleep well at night until we know deep in our grubby little cowardly souls that we have fleeced you and fleeced you until our coffers are overflowing and we can fleece you no more. I do know some real crooked lawyers who would love nothing more than to dig into an impending lawsuit like this one. Real vipers they are. You would be considered a snack, low hanging fruit.

Every man is liable for their own printed word and we have all of it, every bit of it. From the time you type it to the time it makes it to the air in print, we are in there, working overtime in between.

But by all means, go ahead and keep latching on to the Stanton family name and posting it far and wide like some raving lunatics as it only adds fuel to the fire and hundreds of thousands more dollars worth of liability damages. Keep racking up further charges.

So in that regard, by all means, dig in and proceed while I see about getting a little something filed against you who slander the Stanton family name and the technological vehicles in which allow you do it and by extension, the owners of said vehicles.

That is my professional opinion on this matter and the good news for you is that that might normally have cost you $1950 US dollars to even be made personally aware of, but here I am, the good guy that I am, outright giving you this information in this instance for absolutely nothing and completely free of charge in all in an attempt to allow you to save yourselves.

Capisce?

GG
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 10, 2019, 04:25:05 PM

The original post of this thread showed a C-SPAN video where Buell Frazier confirmed that after Calvery got to the steps he and Sarah Stanton stayed still for 3 minutes...

That is proof that Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time in another statement since they are interchangeable...

Which in turn is confirmation and proof that Frazier's staring at Prayer Man in the Darnell clip is Frazier staring at Sarah Stanton as he described...

The Prayer Man people are not credible because they are deliberately ignoring many other examples of proof that Prayer Man is Stanton like her female face in Davidson, wide woman's hips, and exact 5 foot 4 height - not to mention both Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 10, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
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The original post of this thread showed a C-SPAN video where Buell Frazier confirmed that after Calvery got to the steps he and Sarah Stanton stayed still for 3 minutes...

That is proof that Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time in another statement since they are interchangeable...

They are not at all interchangeable. Frazier said nothing about them staring at each other. You made that up.

Quote
The Prayer Man people are not credible because they are deliberately ignoring many other examples of proof that Prayer Man is Stanton like her female face in Davidson,

Davidson said he didn’t prove anything.

Quote
wide woman's hips,

You have no proof of that whatsoever.

Quote
and exact 5 foot 4 height

You don’t know Stanton was exactly 5 foot 4. You just made that up. There’s also no evidence that prayerperson is exactly 5 foot 4 anyway.

Quote
- not to mention both Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t place Stanton in the Prayer Man spot. You just made that up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 11, 2019, 07:01:42 PM

I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...

Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...

I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...

It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 11, 2019, 08:25:30 PM
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I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...
It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell.
 
So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 11, 2019, 10:02:12 PM
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Mrs. Stanton's loved ones made every good faith attempt to set you straight, Mr. Doyle, ---->


but 99.9% of what they shared with you fell upon pretend deaf ears...because it did not fit your false narrative.

Specifically they couldn't have been more insistent w/you about in comparison to others that afternoon their loved one was the largest individual on scene in terms of her weight. For clarity sake, that doesn't make her any less of a human being, may G-d rest her soul...but

even the big bad wolf knew at some point--no matter how much he howled or huffed & puffed--that he was incapable of blowing down a solid foundation of brick.

The genuine evidence here is akin to a solid foundation of brick (Mrs. Stanton did not have a receding hairline; moreover, her hair was "white", premature gray on the day of the assassination; and, the genuine Prayer Man fits into her girth several times over).

Moving forward, please leave this family out of your shenanigans. It would be the respectful & responsible thing to do. Rest in Peace, Mrs. Stanton, may G-d rest your soul dear lady. Stand Down, Mr. Doyle, Stand Down!

I second that Alan.

This "interview" is a disaster. Doyle was unprepared with his questions, he was leading the women with questions and answers, answering for them, arguing over a brand of soda, acting like he knows more than they do. How can Doyle still say he "proved the figure is Sarah Stanton" after this mess?

Doyle's voice became flustered after the women told the real weight of Sarah Stanton that was between over 300-500 pounds. Her hair was also white which Doyle disingenuously tried to claim she colored her hair so he can still claim his phony "Stanton prayer woman" claim. Hearing that recorded was priceless.

After all this mess, we have more real facts from Stanton's family members that easily disproves Doyle's phony claim.

The prayer figure is not 300-500 pounds that Stanton was confirmed to be on that day. Also, the figure has dark colored hair with a receding hairline. The prayer figures hair color matches the dark color hair of Buell Fraizer. Stanton's hair was white on that day confirmed by her family. This prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton.

Buell Fraizer in all his video taped interviews always gestures with his left hand to where he says Stsnton was next to him. He even clearly stated that Stanton was to his left. Never once did Frazier say Stanton was to the right where the prayer figure stands.

Doyle can no longer make his phony "Prayer Woman" claim. He's been refuted by Sarah Stanton herself, Sarah's own family, and Buell Fraizer's recollections.

Case Closed.             
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 12, 2019, 03:27:48 AM
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I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...

Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...

I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...

It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell...

Oh goody. Doyle is back to lie about the evidence some more.

Notice how he doubles down on his lies?  Staying still and staring at each other are two very different things.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 12, 2019, 04:40:25 AM
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I second that Alan.

This "interview" is a disaster. Doyle was unprepared with his questions, he was leading the women with questions and answers, answering for them, arguing over a brand of soda, acting like he knows more than they do. How can Doyle still say he "proved the figure is Sarah Stanton" after this mess?

Doyle's voice became flustered after the women told the real weight of Sarah Stanton that was between over 300-500 pounds. Her hair was also white which Doyle disingenuously tried to claim she colored her hair so he can still claim his phony "Stanton prayer woman" claim. Hearing that recorded was priceless.

After all this mess, we have more real facts from Stanton's family members that easily disproves Doyle's phony claim.

The prayer figure is not 300-500 pounds that Stanton was confirmed to be on that day. Also, the figure has dark colored hair with a receding hairline. The prayer figures hair color matches the dark color hair of Buell Fraizer. Stanton's hair was white on that day confirmed by her family. This prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton.

Buell Fraizer in all his video taped interviews always gestures with his left hand to where he says Stsnton was next to him. He even clearly stated that Stanton was to his left. Never once did Frazier say Stanton was to the right where the prayer figure stands.

Doyle can no longer make his phony "Prayer Woman" claim. He's been refuted by Sarah Stanton herself, Sarah's own family, and Buell Fraizer's recollections.

Case Closed.           r

I guess that makes Lee Harvey Oswald the 500-pound gorilla in the house.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 12, 2019, 04:47:45 AM
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Oh goody. Doyle is back to lie about the evidence some more.

Notice how he doubles down on his lies?  Staying still and staring at each other are two very different things.

John,

Yup, they could have been doin' that "Virtually-At-My-Elbow" jitterbug thing.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 12, 2019, 03:56:12 PM
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So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.

     Any position/belief supported via the ever changing  BS: distributed by Frazier = an immediate Disqualifier.  People for whatever reason shy away from pointing out the obvious. In "63" Frazier would have been called "Off", while today he would be labeled a "Train Wreck". Trust your own Baby Blues along with the Common Sense your parents bestowed upon you.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 12, 2019, 04:26:02 PM
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So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.

Why rely on Frazier's statement that he and Sarah stayed still on the landing platform after Calvery got to the steps?...

Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 12, 2019, 05:22:12 PM
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Why rely on Frazier's statement that he and Sarah stayed still on the landing platform after Calvery got to the steps?...

Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...

The usual Doyle circular argument.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 12, 2019, 07:56:42 PM
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Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...
My vision is poor. Does that make me a complete failure? Regarding the Stanton lady...the big redhead in the [interview] picture? She may have weighed about 200-225 but she didn't weigh any 300-500 lbs whoever mentioned this.. that is completely absurd.
Because it was not posted, I will present the youtube video. I see Roger Craig in the parking lot rather directing his view of the event and cops turning people away from going behind the fence... How come? Then there are more cops scouring the area for what I might guess are bullet shells... How come? Other than that..I have no idea to what I must see with my own eyes [aided with reading glasses :-\] DUH


 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 05:01:51 AM

That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 13, 2019, 03:55:33 PM
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That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...

     There Is Nothing to document Exactly what Frazier was "staring at" at that Exact point in time. Stop spouting Your Opinion as being fact. We KNOW Frazier is tall. His height, elevated physical position, & unimpeded line-of-sight would have given him a very Wide perspective. Something along the lines of a Light House. Your Opinion that Frazier was Focused at that Exact point in time on an object in his Immediate Proximity is extremely Short sighted. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 13, 2019, 05:43:35 PM
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That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...
You don't put it up and I can't seem to find it and the title of that video is 'Darnell Film' :-\
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 06:31:31 PM

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
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     There Is Nothing to document Exactly what Frazier was "staring at" at that Exact point in time. Stop spouting Your Opinion as being fact. We KNOW Frazier is tall. His height, elevated physical position, & unimpeded line-of-sight would have given him a very Wide perspective. Something along the lines of a Light House. Your Opinion that Frazier was Focused at that Exact point in time on an object in his Immediate Proximity is extremely Short sighted.

Nothing except all the statements I have been quoting and film evidence I have been showing...

The Darnell clip clearly shows Frazier looking at Prayer Man for its entire length...

This was proven by the fact Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...It is also proven by the fact Prayer Man turns towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Sarah Stanton was described doing when she turned to Frazier to relate what Gloria Calvery had shouted on her way to the steps...

It is proven at this point that Prayer Man is Stanton because of this correct evidence...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:01:28 PM

Frazier told us what he was looking at in several interviews...He said after Calvery finished her shouting the president has been shot that he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time...

We know Prayer Man is Stanton because we can see her turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly at the precise time Frazier described Sarah turning towards him to discuss what Calvery had said...

The time frame in Darnell is the exact moment Frazier described himself staring at Sarah...So it is not true that we don't know what Frazier was looking at...He made it more than clear in several statements and no one has the right to ignore it...He said he was staring at Sarah and there we see him doing that in Darnell... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:02:17 PM
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Nothing except all the statements I have been quoting and film evidence I have been showing...

The statements you’ve been “quoting” are lies. Frazier didn’t say that he stared at Sarah for the longest time. Neither Frazier or Lovelady ever placed Stanton in the prayerperson position. The Darnell clip doesn’t clearly show Frazierblob looking at Prayerblob. You made it all up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:07:58 PM
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The statements you’ve been “quoting” are lies. Frazier didn’t say that he stared at Sarah for the longest time. Neither Frazier or Lovelady ever placed Stanton in the prayerperson position. The Darnell clip doesn’t clearly show Frazierblob looking at Prayerblob. You made it all up.

The video in the original post of this thread proves what you say isn't true...

You were making the same accusations before until I produced the linked video in question...Frazier clearly says he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes after Clavery had finished shouting...There's your proof of Frazier staring at Sarah for the longest time after Calvery finished her shouting...Despite your childish denials, this is proof...

I have repeatedly posted the evidence where Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...If you want to childishly deny it is up to you...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:09:43 PM
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Frazier told us what he was looking at in several interviews...He said after Calvery finished her shouting the president has been shot that he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time...

No he didn’t. You made that up.

Quote
We know Prayer Man is Stanton because we can see her turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly at the precise time Frazier described Sarah turning towards him to discuss what Calvery had said...

Frazier didn’t give a precise time for when he spoke to Stanton. You made that up too.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:13:35 PM
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The video in the original post of this thread proves what you say isn't true...

Bull. He says nothing in the posted video about staring at each other in shock for the longest time. Or staring at each other at all. You made it all up.

Quote
I have repeatedly posted the evidence where Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...If you want to childishly deny it is up to you...

No, you have never posted evidence of Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot, because it doesn’t exist. You made it up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:24:33 PM

I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 13, 2019, 09:47:18 PM
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I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

And how can youse assure "youses' readers" it matters what youse opine?

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Apparently Scully spends a lot of time thinking about me...

Probably due to that evidence of Janney being legitimate that he still hasn't answered for 6 years now...None of what he posts there has anything to do with the topic of Mrs Reid...

Well, sport, "youse guys" have been rather hard to miss! Ubiquity on steroids....not to mention, clueless!

Single-handedly, I ended some of this insanity. However, unlike author Janney, youse (unholy trinity) are a much tougher (acutely deluded)
"nut" to crack. What makes youse tick? Who cares!

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT411&lpg=PT411&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+"faux+truce"&source=bl&ots=9nd_lvKxcZ&sig=ACfU3U0132kndO3tkmrzE2a6G6TshIo1Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKr8eqwJjlAhVhmuAKHYGZDKsQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20"faux%20truce"&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1510708928/ref=acr_dp_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=two_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)

Even a broken clock..... twice a day!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 10:57:03 PM
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I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

I only “nay-say” the stuff that is false. Which is pretty much everything you post.

Trying to pass off Frazier saying that they stayed where they were for a few minutes as “proof” that he said they “stared at each other for the longest time” isn’t just spin, it’s a blatant lie.

And you have never provided quotes or citations for Frazier or Lovelady “placing Stanton in the Prayer Man position” because that’s a blatant lie too.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 10:58:49 PM
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What self centered, egotistical, narcissistic arrogance.

 Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 13, 2019, 11:03:27 PM
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.....
It's all about Brian all the time, right Brian?

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I only “nay-say” the stuff that is false. Which is pretty much everything you post.

Trying to pass off Frazier saying that they stayed where they were for a few minutes as “proof” that he said they “stared at each other for the longest time” isn’t just spin, it’s a blatant lie.

And you have never provided quotes or citations for Frazier or Lovelady “placing Stanton in the Prayer Man position” because that’s a blatant lie too.

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This is dumb naysay trolling...It's a waste of time and its offerer will never honestly admit facts or evidence...

When you have a simple-minded, dishonest methodology of just naysaying everything like Iacoletti eventually you are going to run in to the a** end of your own denials and I think we have reached that point with trolling Iacoletti...

Iacoletti will never directly address the short-length sweater photogrammetric forensics because he knows it is good...He's not here to admit the good evidence he pretends to call for...He's only here to troll around it...The sweater length on Calvery in Zapruder (Tall Woman) and on the steps is identical...He can't play dumb with it and deny it so he tries to get away with ignoring it...


(https://i.imgur.com/1axf005.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/WEMfzbn.jpg)

It is all about the photogrammetric foreskins .....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 01:12:47 AM
“Photogrammetric forensics” is Doyle-speak for “duh, looks the same to me!”.

Never mind the fact that it hasn’t actually been proven that this is Calvery in the first place.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 01:16:17 AM

The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 02:33:36 AM
It's Calvery on the steps because 25 to 30 seconds after the shots is the exact time it would have taken for Calvery to run to the steps after running from her spot in the spectators...She got there about 5 seconds or so earlier...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 02:47:11 AM
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The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

Oh! ...and Albert/Ralph/Brian, to make it crystal clear, I am not picking on you. I push back against anyone who, from my existing body of knowledge and God given, ongoing research abilities, indicates to me is intentionally misleading or diverting the attention of readers. In your case, it seems obvious you are actively doing both. If you have a medical excuse, please accept my apology, and I will also add a disclaimer in posts critical of your "work".

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Hey Michael, I expect you have the same disdain for inaccuracy as I do. ….
…...
Quote
...Unfortunately, there are major issues with author DiEugenio's version of Jim Garrison, his investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, and the indictmrnt and prosecution of Clay Shaw that have been presented to Jim DiEugenio and he has failed to address:....
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:18:39 AM
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Oh! ...and Albert/Ralph/Brian, to make it crystal clear, I am not picking on you. I push back against anyone who, from my existing body of knowledge and God given, ongoing research abilities, indicates to me is intentionally misleading or diverting the attention of readers. In your case, it seems obvious you are actively doing both. If you have a medical excuse, please accept my apology, and I will also add a disclaimer in posts critical of your "work".

You were wrong on Janney Scully...

If you were really pushing back against what you thought to be deliberately wrong information you would do it directly via the material...

You forfeited credibility when you refused to answer my posted evidence showing why Janney was credible...And you ganged-up with Jim D who was equally silent where it counts - that is, directly, via the material...

Pile-on researchers show a weakness in their character and therefore a subconscious doubting of their own ability... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:26:27 AM
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You were wrong on Janney Scully...

If you were really pushing back against what you thought to be deliberately wrong information you would do it directly via the material...

You forfeited credibility when you refused to answer my posted evidence showing why Janney was credible...And you ganged-up with Jim D who was equally silent where it counts - that is, directly, via the material...

Pile-on researchers show a weakness in their character and therefore a subconscious doubting of their own ability...

Maybe you were "out sick" that day, (10-06-2015, 06:27 AM) when I addressed your "concerns"?

(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyDoyleYates100615.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:30:17 AM
You wouldn't dare harass Lauren, Dawn, or Peter like you do me and they agree Janney was credible...

By the way, you posted a thread that was not the evidence I posted...

By the way, the topic is Frazier's video where he said he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes...Your unrelated posting problems are your problem not mine...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:39:26 AM
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You wouldn't dare harass Lauren, Dawn, or Peter like you do me and they agree Janney was credible...

By the way, you posted a thread that was not the evidence I posted...

By the way, the topic is Frazier's video where he said he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes...Your unrelated posting problems are your problem not mine...

"You" posted, or your Dad posted? It is not "evidence". It is same as what you do here, incessantly opine....

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101818#post101818

Quote
Originally Posted by BrianDoyle  08-07-2015, 02:54 AM

There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility.

These are off the top of my head. If we go back to Janney we'll find more like Angleton's curiosity over Meyer's diary. Angleton was the safe-cracker like with Win Scott who was known to go after dangerous documents personally. Something was going on there and Janney personally witnessed his father faking lack of knowledge of Meyer's death as well as other incriminating timing.

Joe Shimon was practically open about it with his daughter Toni and CIA operatives Janney talked to admitted Mary Meyer was one of their jobs.

I see a similarity in modus operandi between Sirhan and Crump. CIA doesn't give a damn Crump got off. They got what they wanted.

Quote
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/07/peter-janney/the-autodaf-of-lisa-pease-and-jamesdieugenio-tomas-de-torquemada-and-the-spanish-inquisition-return-in-a-new-era-of-suppression-of-freedom-of-thought-and-adherence-to-a-rigid-dogma-namely-thei/
The Autodaf of Lisa Pease and James DiEugenio Tomas de Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition return in a new era of suppression of freedom of thought and adherence to a rigid dogma - namely their own prejudices!
By Peter Janney   July 6, 2012
…….
In addition, Ms. Pease can't even seem to fathom or consider how "Lt. William L. Mitchell," a man who told police he was jogging on the towpath when he passed Mary Meyer — allegedly just before the murder took place — told police that a "Negro male" matching Wiggins' description was following her in an effort to frame Ray Crump. "Mitchell" would then testify against Crump at the murder trial nine months later in July 1965 as part of the CIA's assassination operation. It doesn't seem to matter to Pease that "Mitchell" has never been able to be located since the trial, or that his known address during that time was documented as a "CIA safe house" by three separate former CIA employees. At the time of trial in July 1965, Mitchell told a reporter that he had since retired from the military and was now a mathematics instructor at Georgetown University — yet no record of his employment there could ever be located, nor was there ever any bona-fide military service record located for "Mitchell," either in the Pentagon where he was listed in the directory at the time of the murder, or in the main military data base in St. Louis. This was thoroughly researched by the Peabody Award-winning journalist Roger Charles, as discussed in my book, a fact that Pease fails to mention in one of her many deliberate omissions, which also included Damore's consultation with L. Fletcher Prouty (as documented by Damore's attorney James H. Smith) to finally understand who "Mitchell" was, before Damore confronted him. Of course, Lisa Pease is entitled to whatever flawed point of view she wants to embrace, but she's not entitled to her own set of facts.....

Revised edition of author Peter Janney's book, September, 2013:
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…..
Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...

https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT378&lpg=PT378&dq=peter+janney+professor+%22rational+voice%22&source=bl&ots=9nd_cAHycZ&sig=ACfU3U3tHZiBSEeZmuXdmUXGDjKO_5zzhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN4ZiE1__kAhVDT98KHcojB70Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20janney%20professor%20%22rational%20voice%22&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
... Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace: Third Edition Peter Janney ... was Tom Scully, but he would identify himself on Amazon only as “Rational Voice. ... law professor, Scully identified himself as “a moderator at the Internet forum, ...
…….
This is not rocket science. Doyle and "MWT" Graves could grasp the point presented in this post but that would be contrary to the intent of their "participation".

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT411&lpg=PT411&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+"faux+truce"&source=bl&ots=9nd_lvKxcZ&sig=ACfU3U0132kndO3tkmrzE2a6G6TshIo1Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKr8eqwJjlAhVhmuAKHYGZDKsQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20"faux%20truce"&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1510708928/ref=acr_dp_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=two_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:49:19 AM

No...There were 3 before that that were more detailed...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:58:26 AM
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No...There were 3 before that that were more detailed...

Knock yourself out, then.:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101753#post101753

Maybe start a new thread, perhaps on April 1st,  on your "deep state" analysis?

And, let me explain to readers why you are such an annoying and possibly even dangerous nuisance. Author Janney and
his "team" of all star "connected to the intel community" sleuths were unable to find "missing" Lt. William L Mitchell. To paint him
as even more sinister, (He could not be found, they could have accused him of dismembering and eating babies, with no pushback.) they asserted that Mitchell's residence was a "known CIA safehouse". Lt. Mitchell worked ten minutes away in 1965, at the Pentagon. The building he resided in, according to Dovey Roundtree, was called, "The Virginian." Back in August, 2012, when I was still searching for Mitchell, once I found that the NASA Administrator was also a resident of that building, I dismissed the "known CIA safehouse" embellishment as irrelevant. Three years later, you were still chewing on it like a dog on a bone. The CIA HQ is located in Maclean, VA. Does it follow that every house or city government department in Maclean is "spooked up"? ….
You and author Janney are incapacitated by the intensity level of your own suspicions. You've "snuffed out" your own common sense!

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Rosslyn_BriefingBook_May2012.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonHistory1950.jpg)

October 4, 1950 Ad.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonTheVirginian.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on October 14, 2019, 09:51:47 AM
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Knock yourself out, then.:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101753#post101753

Maybe start a new thread, perhaps on April 1st,  on your "deep state" analysis?

And, let me explain to readers why you are such an annoying and possibly even dangerous nuisance. Author Janney and
his "team" of all star "connected to the intel community" sleuths were unable to find "missing" Lt. William L Mitchell. To paint him
as even more sinister, (He could not be found, they could have accused him of dismembering and eating babies, with no pushback.) they asserted that Mitchell's residence was a "known CIA safehouse". Lt. Mitchell worked ten minutes away in 1965, at the Pentagon. The building he resided in, according to Dovey Roundtree, was called, "The Virginian." Back in August, 2012, when I was still searching for Mitchell, once I found that the NASA Administrator was also a resident of that building, I dismissed the "known CIA safehouse" embellishment as irrelevant. Three years later, you were still chewing on it like a dog on a bone. The CIA HQ is located in Maclean, VA. Does it follow that every house or city government department in Maclean is "spooked up"? ….
You and author Janney are incapacitated by the intensity level of your own suspicions. You've "snuffed out" your own common sense!

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Rosslyn_BriefingBook_May2012.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonHistory1950.jpg)

October 4, 1950 Ad.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonTheVirginian.jpg)

And I'm afraid the late HP Albarelli helped in egging Peter on as well, Tom.  Amazing how many authors used Hank as a PRIMARY source.  But you knew that.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
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The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

No, the proper words are making wild-ass guesses and claiming that you’ve proven something.

Quote
Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

There’s no “green plaid skirt” in the black and white Darnell film. You have no evidence what Calvery was wearing that day. Or Carol Reed. This is all make believe.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
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It's Calvery on the steps because 25 to 30 seconds after the shots is the exact time it would have taken for Calvery to run to the steps after running from her spot in the spectators...She got there about 5 seconds or so earlier...

That’s another thing you just made up. How would you know the exact time it would take for Calvery to run somewhere? You haven’t even successfully demonstrated where she was standing.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 04:15:58 PM

If Scully wants to discuss Janney he should do it in a separate thread...

The 3 detailed posts I made to him and Jim D showing the evidence of Janney's credibility still haven't been answered...Anyone can see from Tom's writing that he's full of hot air...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by (Al)bert Doyle  08-07-2015, 02:54 AM

There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility. These are off the top of my head....

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If Scully wants to discuss Janney he should do it in a separate thread...

The 3 detailed posts I made to him and Jim D showing the evidence of Janney's credibility still haven't been answered...Anyone can see from Tom's writing that he's full of hot air...

(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)
Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT411&lpg=PT411&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+"faux+truce"&source=bl&ots=9nd_lvKxcZ&sig=ACfU3U0132kndO3tkmrzE2a6G6TshIo1Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKr8eqwJjlAhVhmuAKHYGZDKsQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20"faux%20truce"&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

How about a 'faux truce"? Or are you in, "take no prisoners," mode?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 04:58:54 PM
Goban Saor wrote:

Quote
Looking forward to that. I suppose it’s too much to hope for that Prayer Man will be mentioned. PM wasn’t mentioned in the 2012 edition of Destiny Betrayed, but that was published before the groundbreaking PM thread at the Education Forum appeared in 2013.

That's because Jim D, although he sells what he knows not to be true to the public, knows that Prayer Man as Oswald is silly BS...Jim admitted it was BS and that Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton when he wrote on the Education Forum that "to be honest when I first saw the Prayer Man image I thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald"...That was the last time Jim said that in public because he realized he had come in on my side and since Jim was being given the advantage by dirty moderators who were banning the opposition he stayed quiet and went along with Kamp's mob because Jim D is a dirty political operator who, when his evidence fails, relies on dirty censorship and brute exclusion to avoid admitting he was wrong...So instead of admitting I was right and apologizing for getting me banned on Deep Politics Jim did the opposite and praised the Education Forum moderator for banning me and making a rule excluding my work (which is a direct violation of the research ethics Jim espouses in his work)...When that rule, that was a pure violation of all free speech objective research standards and a thinly veiled vehicle for personal grudge by an incompetent moderator, was implimented Jim posted that it was a good move and he agreed...He did that because it effectively removed one of the best people at showing where Jim was wrong and that's how dirty Jim operates...The real bottom line of internet Kennedy research is a clique of friends who vie for popularity and is not the objective research-based playing field they lie and say is the real bottom line... It's a popularity club of DiEugenio sycophants who don't defend their fellow researchers when they are censored by a rogue moderator for posting the correct evidence...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 15, 2019, 05:51:26 PM

 Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 15, 2019, 08:42:17 PM
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Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

Posted @ 11:51:26(am)...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 15, 2019, 08:44:04 PM
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Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

 :D Yeah right.

So if you can't see my posts, then how and why are you responding to them? LarryTrotterImage busy being your cheerleader and your  incognito 'spy' once again?

Is it a clear case of 'If I put my head in the sand then no one can see me"?? You bet it is, "I can't see her so she must not be able to see me" I had a stupid coon-hound once that would hide behind trees in the woods and would not hunt, I took his dumb arse out and shot him the next day.

Posted @ 13:31:23(pm)...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 16, 2019, 07:20:27 PM

There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 16, 2019, 07:54:43 PM
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There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...

How does "staying still" equate to "staring at each other"?  Not that Frazier actually said they both stayed still for 3 minutes.  You made that up too.  He just said "the lady I was standing by, we just stayed right there on the steps".

You've been claiming for months, if not years, that Frazier said they "stared at each other for the longest time" and since you could never find a video of him ever saying that, you're trying to substitute a statement that is nothing like that and claiming that they are equivalent.  That's completely absurd and dishonest -- even by your "560 fabrications" standards.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 16, 2019, 07:58:40 PM

John Iacoletti

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #90 on: Today at 07:54:43 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 16, 2019, 08:19:18 PM
Nobody cares what you're ignoring, Doyle.  You can't run from your lies.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Matthew Finch on October 17, 2019, 12:01:42 PM
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There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...

There absolutely is a lot of doubt. Standing still /= staring at someone.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 17, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
I can't believe that even Doyle is trying to make that argument with a straight face.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 17, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
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There absolutely is a lot of doubt. Standing still /= staring at someone.

Except for the fact that you can see them staring at each other in Darnell...

What the Prayer Man deniers are saying is we can see Stanton turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell, and have statements that described Stanton turning towards Frazier in order to communicate what Calvery said, and that somehow equates to doubt...

There is no doubt that standing still for 3 minutes does not conflict with "Staring at each other in shock for the longest time"...And that nothing I've shown conflicts with that...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 17, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
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Except for the fact that you can see them staring at each other in Darnell...

No you can't.  They are faceless.

Quote
What the Prayer Man deniers are saying is we can see Stanton turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell,

"Towards Frazier".  LOL.

Quote
and have statements that described Stanton turning towards Frazier in order to communicate what Calvery said, and that somehow equates to doubt...

No you don't.  Cite anyone stating that Stanton turned towards Frazier.

Quote
There is no doubt that standing still for 3 minutes does not conflict with "Staring at each other in shock for the longest time"...And that nothing I've shown conflicts with that...

They remain two completely different things.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 19, 2019, 04:54:29 AM

What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 19, 2019, 06:42:55 AM
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What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...

You're threatening me? Be sure to include in your civil complaint that a mentally troubled individual has assumed your assumed identity of "Ralph Yates" and the person you are now subjecting to your threats of "taking legal action against," has reasonable cause to believe it is you who has been harrassing him for the past seven years.

Quote
Projection | psychology | Britannica.com
https://www.britannica.com/science/projection-psychology
Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101740#post101740
Tom Scully 08-06-2015, 09:45 PM#220   
......
... Will Any Apologies Follow After Mr. Doyle's Long Awaited, Reluctant Admission?

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT378&lpg=PT378&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+rational+voice+law+professor+scully&source=bl&ots=9nd-gxLudW&sig=ACfU3U0Aq7JYiOr2p_CACffuAqu4CqEkbQ&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhuOKO1KflAhVOU98KHebmBvcQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20rational%20voice%20law%20professor%20scully&f=false) › books
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
... himself on Amazon only as “Rational Voice.” Discussing his critical post of Mary's Mosaic in an email to a University of Georgia law professor, Scully identified ...
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......
In 2012, Douglas Horne accuses me of working, "for the agency."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RWKKPDXQXFKPD/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
In second page of comments:
Quote
Ralph Yates 5 years agoReport abuse
Fess up Rational Voice. Janney's got the right man. Is it likely an author could openly accuse an emeritus college professor from the University of California of murdering Mary Pinchot Meyer in writing in a book and not have any reaction what so ever? Look at what we are talking about here. A professor of high stature being openly accused of being a CIA agent who murdered Kennedy's mistress in order to cover-up CIA's murder of president Kennedy. Is it likely such a person would react with zero response in that situation if they were falsely accused? This is a serious scandal and perfect opportunity for the media to destroy a nutty conspiracy theorist on the 50th anniversary. Why haven't they?

He's got the right man.

Douglas 7 years ago
... Are you a third party surrogate (or a direct employee) working for the USG whose mission here is to attempt to discredit the confession of a hit-man?......
.......
...........
And in reaction to the same research results....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RHETJR89AG4KJ/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
Quote
H.P. Albarelli Jr.5 years ago In reply toan earlier postReport abuse
It's truly sad that Mr. Scully has "suffered" at the hands of several people. I urge everyone who feels sorry for him to send him flowers.
Leave a reply
Ralph Yates5 years ago (Edited)Report abuse
Some of Janney's evidence is loosely rendered and his affiliation with Ralph Cinque is bizarre to say the least. At minimum it shows extremely bad judgment. However there's some key clues that Janney is keen on like the Rambler having no record of it as if it was a plausibly deniable set-up designed to get a Military Police profile witness in place. I have to temper my Fetzer bs detector because Janney is on the verge of triggering it in several places. However he has a sharp instinct for clues and sees right through many obvious smoking guns like with the diary and Rambler. Janney was there with his hand on the wire when he looked at his father's expression when Mary was killed. Those are things that can't be appreciated by people who didn't experience them. He has a strong case in my opinion because there's no way Crump would have come back 100% clean on the fiber and blood evidence after going through the scene at the canal path.

Janney gains credibility when you consider Crump was confined to the tow path area after the shooting. Therefore it isn't likely the gun would be able to disappear so easily. Even with DiEugenio's criticism of Janney's timing estimates it does look like Crump was captured and in custody when Sylvis saw the man stick his face out from the trees. Something's wrong here because Crump would not be able to hide a gun so easily from his friends and family. The little things are what count here and if Crump had attended a female prior to the incident it would be unlikely he would have attacked Mary Meyer for sexual reasons. There's every reason to suspect a classic plausibly deniable black op here.

There's a couple of things that give Janney credibility, but what Janney calls the master key clinches it. There's no way Wistar could have called Meyer and Bradlee at 2pm if Mary's identity hadn't been determined until 6pm. And don't forget Janney caught his father faking lack of knowledge until the 8pm call from the police informing them of Mary Meyer's murder. Plus there are numerous CIA insiders casually admitting Mary Meyer was one of their jobs off the record.

It's the little things that add up and Mitchell's transfer to England was a way of getting a potential liability near to the wicked domain of MI-6 where he could be taken care of if needed. Mitchell's transformation to a hippy was just a way of diminishing him and his CIA status. Don't forget Mitchell lied about his sponsorship for that trip. Follow the money. The company paid for that relocation. There's no way any innocent emeritus college professor would allow someone to openly accuse him of being the CIA assassin who murdered Mary Meyer in a book without any response. Face it Scully, Janney's got his man.

Did you anticipate your threat would intimidate me sufficiently to beg you or offer you a monetary settlement to dissuade you?
...and, you would have to file a pleading under oath and later, testify under oath. You would have to establish to the court that you are both who you assert you are, and that you are indeed, an injured party! Good luck!

Quote
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R8NNVIZE9ITM/ref=cm_cr_othr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
   Douglas
5.0 out of 5 stars A Masterpiece of Biography and a Mesmerizing Detective Story
April 1, 2012
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
Written by Douglas P. Horne, author of "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board".....

Quote
Quote
(Al)bert Doyle   09-12-2012

If Mitchell has been located then he should be agitated to find his account of what Janney accuses him of.

Funny, JFK researchers usually aren't shy about this kind of thing.

Jim DiEugenio  09-16-2013
....Albert, and then Horne, really dug this angle. Even though, by reading what Lisa and I wrote about the book, it was clear that neither writer could be trusted since they were so agenda driven. Horne wrote an embarrassing valentine to the book on Amazon and he got it up first. That critique shows us much about his analytical skills as a critic. He bought the whole mess of a book--including Mitchell.

But then, as I warned, that was not actually accurate. There does appear to be a William Mitchell who moved to California after going to Oxford. Therefore, if Janney and Damore could not find the man, it appears they did not look very hard. And that is not good research or writing. Another problem is that Damore and Janney violated another cardinal rule: They trusted their CIA sources all too willingly. Niether Horne nor (Al)bert can find it in their critical canon to mention any of this.

So now, Horne is stung. He looks kind of silly. So what does he say, and (Al)bert now echoes: Well why is this Mitchell guy not up in arms? This transferral is supposed to conceal the fact that Horne got duped in the first place. In other words, it doesn't matter if Mitchell disappeared or if he did not: Horne wants it both ways in order to disguise his gullibility.

The problem is this, and anyone who has done these kinds of searches should be familiar with it--as (Al)bert clearly is not. That name is a very common one. Its not like, say, my name. William Mitchell is almost as generic as Joe Smith. Therefore, although it does appear to be him, you cannot be positive. This is a responsible approach to an issue that Janney polarized without doing due diligence.....
Quote
(Al)bert Doyle  09-17-2012

...That's the trouble with a room full of mirrors is that it is hard to create just one straight image guided by straight logic. Too many words vs a simple solution Mr D. Simply knock on this Mr Mitchell's door and ask him. Otherwise Tom Scully is just an overly informational bringer of wrong information.....
Quote
Jim DiEugenio  09-21-2012

...But A1bert, it was Damore and Janney who made the claim that Mitchell disappeared into the ozone, and that he also lived at a CIA safehouse. They said they could not track him down after his appearance at the trial.

But what this shows is that either they were too trusting of their CIA sources, and/or they did not do very much work trying to track him down.

Let us put it this way: Janney comes from a well off family which has ties to the Rockefellers. Now, if with all those resources, he could not find out that there appears to be a guy who does fit the Mitchell profile, then the obvious question is: Why could Scully do that just using Google, yet Janney and Damore could not do that in 25 years with much more time and money?

I personally will not look the other way on this point. ...
Quote
https://www.amazon.com/review/RMUB7ELJ520CB/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&asin=1616087080&cdForum=Fx3OGYYPX89DVPA&cdMsgID=Mx2BPI47HL288W5&cdMsgNo=3&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx2OREUEHNUHPDT&store=books#Mx2BPI47HL288W5 (click on 7 comments)
Last edited by the author on Aug 16, 2014 2:45:27 PM PDT Ralph Yates says:
Don't listen to Scully. This review section is riddled with places where Scully was asked to live up to the real evidence and never did. He disappears when you attempt to hold him to the real evidence.

Anyone who doesn't see the serious evidence Janney keenly detects is either cognitively impaired or part of the cover-up.

I have posted several times that Leary was documented reacting to Mary Meyer's death when it happened and initiating a documented attempt to investigate what happened to her. There are many more cases such as this that Scully, DiEugenio, and Pease ignore. You can read the reviews to see how Scully ran off each and every time we got to the evidence. I've already posted it several times. You never once made any attempt to answer it. Your attempt to take authority in this thread is laughable considering the level of ignorance you show. Von Pein would be proud of your input since it is almost identical to his own. Some people just don't know evidence of CIA murder when they see it. Fool.

There is an unfortunate situation in the Kennedy assassination community where egotistical pedants are so desperate to push their self-created authority and expertise that they take the result of CIA persecution and use it against the victim like Scully does with Damore. These people don't hesitate and don't consider what a horrific moral violation it is to wage against some of the worst victims and use the damage they suffered against them in order to discredit them so their egotistical doubt with prevail. Meanwhile completely blind Mr Scully with his widely prominent and boldly displayed rump doesn't have any curiosity why an emeritus professor would quietly tolerate public accusations written in a book that he was the CIA assassin of Mary Meyer with not a word of protest or any word in the media about this serious accusation. Mr Scully practices a very loose standard of analysis. A little too loose to be take seriously against what better minds can see Janney shows. Mr Scully is a cartoon character who has blundered into the artwork asking where the art is. A fool.
Quote
Ralph Yates 5 years ago (Edited)Report abuse
You're not answering the points Mr Scully. Frankly I don't think you're quite competent as far as fathoming evidence of CIA intrigue from your input. Talk about getting lost in the nit-picking. Each and every time I tried to show you where you ignored credible evidence of CIA conspiracy you ignored my evidence and once again returned to your specious references. You did it again here. Frank Pace is completely irrelevant. Please to not dump a huge family tree information overload about Pace on us......
Who is "us"? The three of youse?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 20, 2019, 09:26:35 PM

DiEugenio is up to his old tricks again...He's saying Truly made up the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...Jim is misleading the research community and public with that claim and is using unfair banning and censorship to avoid accounting for it...

Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Jim D is either incredibly dumb or working for the other side...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 03:49:20 PM

Because I am being censored I cannot reply to Steve Thomas that the "boss" Harry Holmes was referring to who cleared Oswald as an employee at the front door wasn't Truly...The person who was stopped at the front door was probably the T-shirt Oswald who was just seen by Mrs Reid...The reason Harvey has such a vague recounting of that lobby stop is probably because he was never there...Harvey cut down from his encounter with Truly & Baker to the rear exit and left via Houston street and was seen by Frazier...Lee went through the offices, down the front stairs to the utility closet where he was seen by Campbell, and he was the one who was stopped...He was then cleared by Shelley not Truly and was walked to the rear exit by Shelley to guide him out of the Depository...Frazier was clear in his interview with Gary Mack that Oswald never left by the front door...The Warren Commission muddied up this witnessing and never covered it in detail because it exposed an Intel spook (Shelley) guiding another operative to safety and exposed the conspiracy...That's why there is zero detail from the people involved or the cop at the door and no Commission interview with them...

This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 21, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
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Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Cool fabrication, bro.  Too bad there's no evidence for any of it.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 21, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
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This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow...

The wisest thing the EF ever did was banning you and your made-up BS.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 09:19:28 PM
Bart Kamp wrote:

Quote
Meanwhile a certain forum member who we all refer to as "that nut case" has been seriously foaming at his mouth again with the usual Trumpesque ramblings against you and the whole second floor clstrfck of which not one thing sticks due to the usual lack of any evidence. It has been irking him quite a lot that he has not been having his seat at this table for more than two years already. Doyle's pain of missing out on the action is tearing him apart from the inside so it seems.

It appears that on the EF the rules apply to everybody except when the violations are against me...

Kamp is obviously afraid I might come over there and smoke him...The fix is on on the EF because one of Kamp's gang members is in charge and bans anyone who out-argues him.

If I were allowed to post over there I would show where DiEugenio and Kamp are wrong, which is the real reason why I am banned...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
It is official now...The bullies have taken over the Prayer Man issue on the EF and no alternate explanations are allowed except Jim DiEugenio's backing of Greg Parker...

This was made possible by James Gordon's moderation...

DiEugenio is now an open Kamp gang member and accepts Kamp's rules-violating vulgar attacks on me...Kamp is allowed to break the EF rules openly as long as it is against me and is used to shut down my correct evidence...

The organized Kamp-led cowards are sort of referring to me as a Fetzer-like nut but one thing they won't do is give an honest answer to my evidence...This is a good example of how dangerous Parker's nutty Prayer Man theory is once advocated by DiEugenio who uses dirty methods to ignore those who can disprove him...

DiEugenio wrote:

Quote
Truly got together with the FBI and started this whole second floor lunch encounter that Baker had already denied.

That's a lie...Baker never denied the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...He simply omitted it and changed the floor location...Most likely because the fix was on by that time and he didn't want to exonerate Oswald by placing him in the place he was during the shots...It is also possible that the T-shirt Oswald had exited via Armstrong's passenger elevator escape hatch ruse and got off at the 3rd floor...That Oswald walked across the 3rd floor and met Truly & Baker on the 3rd floor staircase landing and Baker chose that Oswald under orders...Jim D is violating research standards by saying Baker denied the 2nd floor encounter...DiEugenio is a real dirty bastard...This is how he operates...He gets praise from ego-based researchers on his Oliver Stone production and parlays it in to now doubling down on the Prayer Man crap...And make no mistake this is 100% originating from that BS Prayer Man theory because the Prayer Man nuts know they need to get Oswald out of the 2nd floor lunch room because it disproves the Prayer Man theory...That's the only reason they are entering this nutty BS and are so desperate to prove it didn't happen...Jim should be ashamed of himself because he has lowered himself to the trollish level of Bart Kamp and other nutty internet comments section types like Alex Jones etc...And the members of the EF show themselves to be prone to mob-like research and lacking in integrity if they say nothing...

If we put a voice stress analysis on Baker in his CBS interview we would see he is telling the truth...Baker didn't mention the 2nd floor encounter in his affidavit because they didn't know what to do with it at that point so Baker buried it with his 3rd or 4th floor claim...Gilbride showed that Baker told Marvin Johnson that the man in the police station was the man he saw at the Depository...

Shame on DiEugenio because he joins Kamp in his internet troll-level denial of Carolyn Arnold...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 22, 2019, 04:06:25 PM
"voice stress analysis".  LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 22, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
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What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...

You're threatening me? Be sure to include in your civil complaint that a mentally troubled individual has assumed your assumed identity of "Ralph Yates" and the person you are now subjecting to your threats of "taking legal action against," has reasonable cause to believe it is you who has been harrassing him for the past seven years.
.......

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DiEugenio is up to his old tricks again...He's saying Truly made up the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...Jim is misleading the research community and public with that claim and is using unfair banning and censorship to avoid accounting for it...

Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Jim D is either incredibly dumb or working for the other side...

Sane isn't a "side". Insanity is often expressed by acting out irrationally.

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Because I am being censored I cannot reply to Steve Thomas that the "boss" Harry Holmes was referring to who cleared Oswald as an employee at the front door wasn't Truly...The person who was stopped at the front door was probably the T-shirt Oswald who was just seen by Mrs Reid...The reason Harvey has such a vague recounting of that lobby stop is probably because he was never there...Harvey cut down from his encounter with Truly & Baker to the rear exit and left via Houston street and was seen by Frazier...Lee went through the offices, down the front stairs to the utility closet where he was seen by Campbell, and he was the one who was stopped...He was then cleared by Shelley not Truly and was walked to the rear exit by Shelley to guide him out of the Depository...Frazier was clear in his interview with Gary Mack that Oswald never left by the front door...The Warren Commission muddied up this witnessing and never covered it in detail because it exposed an Intel spook (Shelley) guiding another operative to safety and exposed the conspiracy...That's why there is zero detail from the people involved or the cop at the door and no Commission interview with them...

This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow...

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The wisest thing the EF ever did was banning you and your made-up BS.
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Bart Kamp wrote:

It appears that on the EF the rules apply to everybody except when the violations are against me...

Kamp is obviously afraid I might come over there and smoke him...The fix is on on the EF because one of Kamp's gang members is in charge and bans anyone who out-argues him.

If I were allowed to post over there I would show where DiEugenio and Kamp are wrong, which is the real reason why I am banned...

You're "over here," threatening and disturbed.... but is anyone here quaking in their boots?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 23, 2019, 07:57:09 PM

Bart Kamp wrote:

Quote
Listen nut case

1/ you have no evidence,let alone any correct evidence. Get that in your thick skull.

2/ I am not afraid of you at any place you bitch, moan and spew your typed up lying excrement. There is however simply no point to engage with you on a normal level any more. You have lied just too many times. The members at where you reside have pointed out numerous times your lies and utter BS, you were rightly kicked out at EF and DPF, do not ever forget that you filthy denier. The current padded cell you are now in allows you to tell your tall unproven and above all made up tales and even from that place you have been dropped more than half a dozen times this year alone already. If you think that is normal then I suggest you get your head checked one more time.

3/ you smoking me? with what? more lies? You could not even take care of a wet dream you loser.

4/ you are a cancer on the JFK research community.

It is correct to say Bart is a coward who only posts at places where the opposition is banned...He is afraid to confront me on a fair playing field where he would be held accountable for his Prayer Man crap and not be able to wiggle out of it with unfair banning...He and DiEugenio have teamed-up and hijacked the Education Forum with a moderator on the inside so they have successfully managed to avoid having to answer the facts that prove Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...Jim D is particularly dishonest because he admitted Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton on the EF when he said he always thought Prayer Man was too stocky to be Oswald...Greg Parker also did everything but directly admit Prayer Man was Stanton on my Facebook Prayer Woman page...

Over the past year the members of the EF have had guilty consciences so they stopped responding to Stancak and Kamp's Prayer Man posts...My being unfairly banned from the DPF and EF boards was directly due to the moderators there seeking favor from the Prayer Man people because of their inability to understand my Prayer Man evidence...

Bart is an uncredible punk who name-calls you a liar but then runs in public from actually walking that back and discussing those so called "lies" via the evidence...All he is doing above is self-excusing and running in front of evidence he's afraid to directly discuss...

Kamp is the liar and even though he said he would reconsider Karen Westbrook's location of Gloria Calvery if new evidence came out, when Moricet got the Depository photos and confirmation from Holt's brother, and Graves proved the 3 Women were Simmons, Holt, and Jacob, Kamp stayed within the cowardly safety of his banning-protected websites and refused to admit the obvious...This is all perfectly OK with Jim D who pretends all this isn't happening and that I was fairly banned for "too much vitriol"...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 23, 2019, 09:00:15 PM
Kamp is exactly right.  All of your so-called "evidence" is the product of lies and fabrications.  560 of them at last count.

The fabrications, fallacies, and falsehoods of Brian Doyle (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1749.0.html)

And you just compound your lies with additional lies.  Holt's brother looked at Darnell, and Westbrook looked at Zapruder.  The two have nothing to do with each other, or with Calvery.  And Calvery's location has nothing to do with Stanton or with prayer-person.  Your entire argument is based on lying about what witnesses said.  You're a charlatan peddling snake oil, and you are the laughing stock of the entire JFK assassination community.  The only question is, how have you managed to keep from getting permanently banned here as well?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 24, 2019, 04:15:03 PM
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.... Your entire argument is based on lying about what witnesses said.  You're a charlatan peddling snake oil, and you are the laughing stock of the entire JFK assassination community.  The only question is, how have you managed to keep from getting permanently banned here as well?

During the night, I musta fell and hit my head....

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Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25901-two-oswalds-in-the-texas-theater/page/34/?tab=comments#comment-407509
Quote
On 10/5/2019 at 3:35 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
Brian Doyle found this image of the theater and ticket booth that appears to be from Nov. 22, 1963 or very close to that date.

US-JFK-195182_020.jpg
   
Ron Bulman  Posted October 6, 2019

Very excellent.  Many thanks to Brian.  This proves it was not the rounded version in your earlier picture.  And I think me wrong.  The ticket booth does not appear detached. Though that is hard to reconcile with the earlier picture you posted where you can see through it I commented on.

Either way how did Julia Postal observe anyone going up the stairs to the balcony Inside from the ticket booth Outside? 

.........
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 04:21:09 PM

John Iacoletti

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2019, 09:00:15 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 04:25:43 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xs81m8tqzizozd1/NotNuts.gif)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 04:31:58 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if Prayer Man's glowing hand is the left hand rather than the right hand because the left hand would be closer to the sun plane border?...

Sarah may have had her left hand on that part of her purse and it overlapped her right hand...


Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 24, 2019, 05:11:36 PM
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I'm beginning to wonder if Prayer Man's glowing hand is the left hand rather than the right hand because the left hand would be closer to the sun plane border?...

Sarah may have had her left hand on that part of her purse and it overlapped her right hand...

It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 05:52:06 PM
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It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.

Provably wrong Larry...You've gone the wrong way on this I hate to say...

It can't be a cup because if it were we would see the white of the porcelain register when Sarah's hand was in the darker shade as it is in other frames...If that were a cup when Sarah lowers her arm away from the sun plane and in to a darker area of the portal you would still be able to detect the contrast of the difference between the white porcelain and Sarah's skin...There would be a noticeable divide between those different colors...If you look closely you will see no such divide because the glowing object is simply Sarah's hand being illuminated by partial sunlight just back from the sun border...

Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 06:38:19 PM
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Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...

Both statements are complete fabrications.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 24, 2019, 09:01:16 PM
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Both statements are complete fabrications.

Ah, but he used the word 'behaviorally', which must be worth as many points as 'forensically'  Thumb1:
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 09:52:33 PM
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Ah, but he used the word 'behaviorally', which must be worth as many points as 'forensically'  Thumb1:

Translation:   I cannot give any respectful, intelligent answer to your correct observations"...

In April 2014 Kamp wrote on his website:  " I can see now that Prayer Man is obviously manipulating something with both hands  "...

Kamp was correct...Sarah was looking in her purse with both hands...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 10:13:21 PM
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Translation:   I cannot give any respectful, intelligent answer to your correct observations"...

In April 2014 Kamp wrote on his website:  " I can see now that Prayer Man is obviously manipulating something with both hands  "...

Kamp was correct...Sarah was looking in her purse with both hands...

I thought she was staring at Frazier for the longest time.  You can't even keep your fabrications straight...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 24, 2019, 11:31:45 PM
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It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.

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Provably wrong Larry...You've gone the wrong way on this I hate to say...

It can't be a cup because if it were we would see the white of the porcelain register when Sarah's hand was in the darker shade as it is in other frames...If that were a cup when Sarah lowers her arm away from the sun plane and in to a darker area of the portal you would still be able to detect the contrast of the difference between the white porcelain and Sarah's skin...There would be a noticeable divide between those different colors...If you look closely you will see no such divide because the glowing object is simply Sarah's hand being illuminated by partial sunlight just back from the sun border...

Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...
 

So, we disagree! Don't you agree? It is my conclusion that a hand held cup/mug is glowing due to receiving reflected sunlight, instead of direct sunlight. And, said cup/mug contains a beverage, or possibly soup. However, simply a conclusion based on observation and image interpretation. No scientific indications involved. ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 11:34:54 PM

No...The evidence disproves there being a cup in Sarah's hand...

If there was a white porcelain cup you would see the divide between the white of the cup and Sarah's skin when she was in shade but you don't see it because the glowing object is her hand...

I'm beginning to think the glowing hand is her left hand because it would be on the closer side of the sun plane...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 24, 2019, 11:42:30 PM
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No...The evidence disproves there being a cup in Sarah's hand...

If there was a white porcelain cup you would see the divide between the white of the cup and Sarah's skin when she was in shade but you don't see it because the glowing object is her hand...

I'm beginning to think the glowing hand is her left hand because it would be on the closer side of the sun plane...

Moving on...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 07:37:45 AM
Nope...You're wrong...

Check it out with a pro photo analyzer and it will check out...If it were a white cup you would see it contrast with the skin and you would see a divide line where the two met while the hand was further back in to the darker areas of the portal...

I know my stuff...It is quite foolish to doubt me on this...

You can't see any white cup in the Wiegman frame where Sarah has her hands in the lower position...



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2019, 02:46:55 PM
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I know my stuff...It is quite foolish to doubt me on this...

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/roflmao.gif)

The fabrications, fallacies, and falsehoods of Brian Doyle (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1749.0.html)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 04:25:59 PM

I take it back...The glowing hand is Sarah's right hand... I looked at it and realized her right hand is holding her purse open so it is crossed across her body and holding the purse open and is stuck further towards the sun plane...I could get a woman to demonstrate and you would see why her right hand is the one that is poking further towards the sun plane and is therefore illuminated...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
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I take it back...The glowing hand is Sarah's right hand... I looked at it and realized her right hand is holding her purse open so it is crossed across her body and holding the purse open and is stuck further towards the sun plane...I could get a woman to demonstrate and you would see why her right hand is the one that is poking further towards the sun plane and is therefore illuminated...

Who are you kidding?  What woman would want to get near you?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 06:59:36 PM

Her right hand was holding the far side of her purse open and her left hand was closer to her chest holding the other side of her purse open in order to look in to it...

This brought her right hand across her body and out in to the sun plane and drew the left hand back and towards her chest...

This explains why Sarah's right hand was glowing and closer to the sun/shade border...



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on October 26, 2019, 05:39:23 PM
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Her right hand was holding the far side of her purse open and her left hand was closer to her chest holding the other side of her purse open in order to look in to it...

This brought her right hand across her body and out in to the sun plane and drew the left hand back and towards her chest...

This explains why Sarah's right hand was glowing and closer to the sun/shade border...

Another 'remote viewing' gone wrong by Mssr. Doyle.  Better practice some more on your goats, sir.  Workin' at the Car Wash.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 03:47:50 PM

There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 28, 2019, 04:08:08 PM
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There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

I have warm memories of your assuring us, via Ms Debra Conway, that Mr Frazier had categorically identified Ms Stanton as PrayerPerson
---------------only to be forced to admit following a conversation with Mr Frazier that he could make no such identification!   :D

PrayerPerson in Wiegman is not Ms Stanton, who was to Mr Frazier's left at the time. It's Mr Bill Shelley.

PrayerPerson in Darnell is not Ms Stanton. We've known that since at least your sourcing of a contemporaneous photo of her.

Another surge of warm memories! This is what your forensic photogrammetric codification skills had predicted she'd look like:

(https://i.imgur.com/yLAyVdO.jpg)

And this is what she actually looked like!

(https://i.imgur.com/Sg1AFIn.jpg)

Yet you still carried on flogging your wretched dead horse...

And then this turned up!

(https://i.imgur.com/NJYO3s9.jpg)

 :D

Who is PrayerPerson in Darnell? Well, six years on, no candidate better than Mr Oswald has turned up------------------which is just horrible for you, for Mr Oswald is the one person you (a CTer!) don't on any account want to have been out front!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 04:19:48 PM
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There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

LOL. Non-sequitur of the year.

Quote
It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

No Doyle. “Standing still” is not the same thing as “staring at each other”. By the way, Frazier didn’t even say he stood still for 3 minutes. That’s yet another thing you just made up.

Quote
There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

You either have a lousy memory or you are a pathological liar. Or both. Transcribe Frazier’s actual words in the video and you’ll see why. But you never provide exact quotes for a reason.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 04:20:24 PM
Denny Zartman should ask why he agrees with me that Prayer Man is Stanton yet says nothing about the dirty group that ganged up with James Gordon and banned me on false grounds when my evidence was correct...

Those liars are trying to say I used too much vitriol but any honest look shows Kamp is guilty of much worse and they don't have any problem with it...

They are lying and using that as an excuse to not admit the correct evidence I proved against the 95% board majority who fell for Greg Parker's nutty Tom Sawyer evidence hacking...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 04:22:05 PM
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Denny Zartman should ask why he agrees with me that Prayer Man is Stanton yet says nothing about the dirty group that ganged up with James Gordon and banned me on false grounds when my evidence was correct...

Probably because nobody but you thinks that’s the reason you were banned.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 06:18:46 PM
We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...

Davidson proved that Prayer Man has a female face at the exact time that the witnesses were saying Stanton was in that spot...

None of the Prayer Man people can show where Stanton is in the photography...

That is because she is Prayer Man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 06:37:06 PM
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We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

No, you just lied about what Frazier and Lovelady actually said. And who’s “we”?

Quote
We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...

You haven’t proven squat. You’ve merely claimed it.

Quote
Davidson proved that Prayer Man has a female face at the exact time that the witnesses were saying Stanton was in that spot...

No, what Davidson actually said was that he hasn’t proven anything.

Quote
None of the Prayer Man people can show where Stanton is in the photography...

Actually, they have identified somebody else who could be Stanton. So has Stancek.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:25:52 PM
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That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...
:D

Sarah Stanton was 300-500 pounds with white hair according to her family in your interview. Does the figure appear to look 300-500 pounds with white hair?

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It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...
Where is your proof? Frazier never said that.  Frazier always gestures to his LEFT where he says Stanton was standing.  Stanton's statement to the FBI places her INSIDE after hearing 3 explosions.

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There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

Where is this video? Post it here.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:35:00 PM
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We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

Who is "we've"? Frazier placed Stanton to his LEFT in all his interviews not his RIGHT. Stanton said she IMMEDIATELY went INSIDE after hearing three explosions. This is not Stanton.

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We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...
Who's "we've"? Don't you mean you? Stanton's family said Sarah was 300-500 pounds with white hair. Prayer Man does not fit that description. 

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That is because she is Prayer Man...

 :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:52:09 PM
The glowing light appears to be coming from Prayer man's right wrist that would indicate a man's watch.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 09:06:33 PM
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:D

Sarah Stanton was 300-500 pounds with white hair according to her family in your interview. Does the figure appear to look 300-500 pounds with white hair?
Where is your proof? Frazier never said that.  Frazier always gestures to his LEFT where he says Stanton was standing.  Stanton's statement to the FBI places her INSIDE after hearing 3 explosions.

Where is this video? Post it here.

You don't realize your responses are proof my claim is correct...

If Sarah was that big then you should have no trouble pointing her out to Frazier's left in Darnell or Altgens...The reason you can't do that is because Prayer Man is Stanton...

The video is linked in the original post in this thread...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 09:59:04 PM

I can't believe the research community is letting Kamp put out another Prayer Man paper next year that he is currently working on when they know Prayer Man isn't Oswald...

Zartman said himself that he thought I was correct and Prayer Man was Stanton...

The way the research community works is Zartman stays quiet even though he publicly disagrees with Kamp and I remain banned...

That's not very credible...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
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You don't realize your responses are proof my claim is correct...

If Sarah was that big then you should have no trouble pointing her out to Frazier's left in Darnell or Altgens...The reason you can't do that is because Prayer Man is Stanton...

The video is linked in the original post in this thread...



How is your claim correct when the figure is not that big and does not have white hair? This disproves your claim.

Where does Frazier always gesture to where he says Stanton was standing? To his left. The figure is to his right. 

You're going to tell us a much smaller person with black hair is still Stanton?   

 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 28, 2019, 11:05:42 PM
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How is your claim correct when the figure is not that big and does not have white hair? This disproves your claim.

Nothing but nothing has permission to disprove a Doyle Claim, sir-------------a Doyle Claim has a reality all of its own that transcends mere facts!  :D

Quote
You're going to tell us a much smaller person with black hair is still Stanton?

Yes, that's the dead horse the poor demented man has gone on beating since he himself published the photo of Ms Stanton!

She looked just like he'd said she would!  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/64QA43P.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 11:40:00 PM
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Nothing but nothing has permission to disprove a Doyle Claim, sir-------------a Doyle Claim has a reality all of its own that transcends mere facts!  :D

Yes, that's the dead horse the poor demented man has gone on beating since he himself published the photo of Ms Stanton!

She looked just like he'd said she would!  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/64QA43P.jpg)

You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...The eyes are close together and the nose and mouth are the same small size...It would also grab the pudgy face surrounding those features too...

If you notice Ford is not pointing out Stanton to the left of Frazier...That's because he can't and she's not there...

Stanton is Prayer Man, as Ford's lack of any credible answers to the real evidence shows...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 12:20:39 AM
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You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...

 :D

Let’s see one.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 02:08:55 AM
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If you notice Ford is not pointing out Stanton to the left of Frazier...That's because he can't and she's not there...
Brian, you can't point out Stanton to the right of Frazier when Frazier says Stanton was to his left. Any figure to the right of Frazier is not Stanton.

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Stanton is Prayer Man, as Ford's lack of any credible answers to the real evidence shows...
Brian, because you claim Stanton is the figure that makes it a fact? Basically this is what you are arguing.

Wait a minute here, you've avoided the pertinent questions to your claim by not answering them. Your Stanton claim is invalid unless you answer these questions.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 29, 2019, 09:57:12 AM
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You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...The eyes are close together and the nose and mouth are the same small size...It would also grab the pudgy face surrounding those features too...

Thank you so much for this, Mr Doyle, I needed a good bellylaugh!  :D
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 29, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
Sarah Stanton was somewhere out on the front entrance landing in Weigman film BEFORE any shots are fired, correct?

So where does Alan and others think is the most probable place for a 300 lb, 5'4" woman to have been standing at the time of Wiegmans camera panning past at about just a couple seconds before the 1st shot is fired?

If Stanton were standing behind BWF and others and right beside Pauline Sanders, and did not move either right, nor left, then Stanton would have had Baker run right into her, and its doubtful Stanton would have failed to mention such meeting.

If Stanton had immediately opened the door and gone into the lobby just after 3rd shot is fired,its difficult  to understand how BWF could have glanced at Stanton which only occurs AFTER Gloria Cavalry has reached the front lower step and is talking to Joe Molina there.

So the only place really left is where prayer person appears to be, in that corner, out of the way of other people,thus not being an obstacle and also, able to sip the white coffee mug most likely that came from the 2nd floor lunchroom.

This about the only point i disagree with Mr.Doyle is  what the white object is. He apparently thinks it Stanton's hand in the sunlight, but thats curious since the hand changes position being raised to mouth level, and thats why imo,its probably a white cup.

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 03:29:20 PM
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Thank you so much for this, Mr Doyle, I needed a good bellylaugh!  :D

Laughing while not being able to point-out Stanton to Frazier's left isn't very credible...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 03:46:29 PM
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Laughing while not being able to point-out Stanton to Frazier's left isn't very credible...

What’s not credible is the guy with 560 falsehoods and fabrications.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 03:55:16 PM
It seems like there's a new power structure at the Education Forum where Bart Kamp and Jim DiEugenio are now running the forum with the assistance of the moderation...

Bart Kamp came in and spoke down to Micah Mileto saying that Von Pein's banning was morally justified because he had copied debates where he was clearly losing and re-posted them in a context that made it look like he was winning...

Well, what about Kamp himself and his banning anyone who posts the correct evidence for Prayer Man from his website?...

Kamp is being assisted by the EF moderation in sheer hypocrisy because by banning and censoring the correct evidence he is doing the exact same thing as Von Pein...

In fact, what Kamp is doing is worse because Kamp them returns to the EF and bullies people around and makes obnoxious snipes at them and threatens their membership with the moderator's full unprofessional approval...

Kamp was disproven by myself and even DiEugenio and Zartman admitted it...So while Kamp accuses Von Pein of violating his moral sensibilities for creating false wins through dirty tactics, Kamp himself is much more guilty of the same thing yet somehow he gets the support of the EF moderation...

So while the EF moderation is helping Kamp with this gross hypocrisy and unprofessionally attacking Mileto for perhaps voicing this dilemma like a sound membership should, that moderation doesn't realize they are only proving Mileto's point by responding that way...

Competent moderation would not attack Mileto for asking for accountability from the EF moderation, it would cite Kamp for his hypocrisy...

Competent moderation would point-out to DiEugenio and Zartman that they both posted things that inferred they agreed Prayer Man was Stanton...Both those men stayed silent when Kamp attacked Von Pein...

Because of this new political power structure with its moderator enforcers the EF has lowered itself to a bully clique where apparently Bart Kamp now thinks he is running the show and the mods pretty much agree...

Unlike Kamp, Von Pein never got a good researcher banned for the crime of posting the correct evidence on Prayer Man that Kamp is currently rigging the system through banning and censorship to continue posting the wrong evidence over...

The cheapest, most immoral, most cowardly thing you can do is ban a person for posting the correct evidence and Kamp and the Education Forum are guilty of that...As Mileto suggests, they are in no position to judge Von Pein or unprofessionally tell people to go elsewhere for the crime of pointing it out...

What kind of example is the EF membership showing to the public by leaving Mileto alone with no support while the wolves circle their next victim?...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 04:15:30 PM
“Correct evidence”. LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
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It seems like there's a new power structure at the Education Forum where Bart Kamp and Jim DiEugenio are now running the forum with the assistance of the moderation...

Bart Kamp came in and spoke down to Micah Mileto saying that Von Pein's banning was morally justified because he had copied debates where he was clearly losing and re-posted them in a context that made it look like he was winning...

Well, what about Kamp himself and his banning anyone who posts the correct evidence for Prayer Man from his website?...

Kamp is being assisted by the EF moderation in sheer hypocrisy because by banning and censoring the correct evidence he is doing the exact same thing as Von Pein...

In fact, what Kamp is doing is worse because Kamp them returns to the EF and bullies people around and makes obnoxious snipes at them and threatens their membership with the moderator's full unprofessional approval...

Kamp was disproven by myself and even DiEugenio and Zartman admitted it...So while Kamp accuses Von Pein of violating his moral sensibilities for creating false wins through dirty tactics, Kamp himself is much more guilty of the same thing yet somehow he gets the support of the EF moderation...

So while the EF moderation is helping Kamp with this gross hypocrisy and unprofessionally attacking Mileto for perhaps voicing this dilemma like a sound membership should, that moderation doesn't realize they are only proving Mileto's point by responding that way...

Competent moderation would not attack Mileto for asking for accountability from the EF moderation, it would cite Kamp for his hypocrisy...

Competent moderation would point-out to DiEugenio and Zartman that they both posted things that inferred they agreed Prayer Man was Stanton...Both those men stayed silent when Kamp attacked Von Pein...

Because of this new political power structure with its moderator enforcers the EF has lowered itself to a bully clique where apparently Bart Kamp now thinks he is running the show and the mods pretty much agree...

Unlike Kamp, Von Pein never got a good researcher banned for the crime of posting the correct evidence on Prayer Man that Kamp is currently rigging the system through banning and censorship to continue posting the wrong evidence over...

The cheapest, most immoral, most cowardly thing you can do is ban a person for posting the correct evidence and Kamp and the Education Forum are guilty of that...As Mileto suggests, they are in no position to judge Von Pein or unprofessionally tell people to go elsewhere for the crime of pointing it out...

What kind of example is the EF membership showing to the public by leaving Mileto alone with no support while the wolves circle their next victim?...

Brian, are you ignoring these questions on purpose? You can't say you posted the correct evidence when these questions still remain. Please answer them.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 09:15:07 PM
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Sarah Stanton was somewhere out on the front entrance landing in Weigman film BEFORE any shots are fired, correct?

So where does Alan and others think is the most probable place for a 300 lb, 5'4" woman to have been standing at the time of Wiegmans camera panning past at about just a couple seconds before the 1st shot is fired?

If Stanton were standing behind BWF and others and right beside Pauline Sanders, and did not move either right, nor left, then Stanton would have had Baker run right into her, and its doubtful Stanton would have failed to mention such meeting.

If Stanton had immediately opened the door and gone into the lobby just after 3rd shot is fired,its difficult  to understand how BWF could have glanced at Stanton which only occurs AFTER Gloria Cavalry has reached the front lower step and is talking to Joe Molina there.

So the only place really left is where prayer person appears to be, in that corner, out of the way of other people,thus not being an obstacle and also, able to sip the white coffee mug most likely that came from the 2nd floor lunchroom.

This about the only point i disagree with Mr.Doyle is  what the white object is. He apparently thinks it Stanton's hand in the sunlight, but thats curious since the hand changes position being raised to mouth level, and thats why imo,its probably a white cup.

The prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton for a number of reasons I've already pointed out. Stanton never mentioned Buell Frazier in her FBI statement and she stated she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went upstairs to the second floor to look out the window. If she was "staring in shock" with Frazier she would have said that. Her own statement already disqualifies her to be the figure. Funny how Doyle and you want to ignore what this woman says thinking you know more than she did. She went through the whole ordeal, you two didn't.  Her appearance also disqualifies her. The figure is not a 300+ pound person with white hair as her family recalled her being on that day. Buell Fraizer always says Stanton is to his left when the figure is to the right.  When you look at all this evidence it is obvious this figure is not Sarah Stanton. You guys are making the Stanton claim,  so since it's been established that the figure is not Sarah Stanton, you need to locate her somewhere else.   
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
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Brian, are you ignoring these questions on purpose? You can't say you posted the correct evidence when these questions still remain. Please answer them.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
 

1)  I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...Kamp and the Prayer Man people are pretty dumb because they claimed Lovelady was about to say Oswald was behind them when he was cut off - only if you look at the photo evidence Prayer Man wasn't behind Lovelady, he was to Lovelady's right where he placed Stanton...The photography shows Frazier was behind Lovelady as he later confirmed...In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady said Sarah was against the west wall of the portal with him when the motorcade passed...The Hughes film shows Lovelady right where he said he was and Prayer Man is directly behind him...Frazier confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot when he said he was talking to Sarah when Gloria Calvery got to the steps...Couch/Darnell shows Calvery at the steps...Frazier is clearly staring at Prayer Man for the entire duration of Couch/Darnell...There is zero doubt that this is the exact same time that Frazier repeatedly described staring at Sarah in multiple interviews and statements...That makes Stanton Prayer Man beyond any reasonable doubt...

Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography - especially the clear photography of the Altgens image...You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly - yet we don't see Stanton there...But probably the firmest proof that Stanton is not to Frazier's left is the fact I asked you to show Stanton to Frazier's left in my last post and you responded by once again claiming Stanton was to Frazier's left but flagrantly avoided showing us so in the photography like I asked you...You can't do it...So you are the one failing to answer the questions here not me...

2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

3) I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform, and we have identified Sanders, that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee (Oswald had a break in color fabric from his shirt to his pants)...I'm sorry but ignoring my previous post and asking the same disproven questions again does not serve as any valid response to my previous post whose points you are obviously evading with your pretend demands...

Can you prove you are really "Rick Plant" and not a Kamp alias?

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 10:56:10 PM
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1)  I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...

Every single bit of this is made up BS.

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Kamp and the Prayer Man people are pretty dumb because they claimed Lovelady was about to say Oswald was behind them when he was cut off - only if you look at the photo evidence Prayer Man wasn't behind Lovelady, he was to Lovelady's right

He was both to the right and behind.

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In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady said Sarah was against the west wall of the portal with him when the motorcade passed...

No, he did not. You just made that up.

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The Hughes film shows Lovelady right where he said he was and Prayer Man is directly behind him...

The Hughes film doesn’t show prayerperson.

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Frazier confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot when he said he was talking to Sarah when Gloria Calvery got to the steps...

He didn’t say anything about where she was standing at that time.

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Couch/Darnell shows Calvery at the steps...

Unproven.

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Frazier is clearly staring at Prayer Man for the entire duration of Couch/Darnell...

He’s not clearly doing anything of the kind. His face isn’t even visible.

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There is zero doubt that this is the exact same time that Frazier repeatedly described staring at Sarah in multiple interviews and statements...

He, in fact, hasn’t said this in even a single video. You made it up.

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Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...

That does nothing to prove that you are correct.

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You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography - especially the clear photography of the Altgens image...You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly

Bull. Half of the entryway is blocked by Secret Service agents in the foreground.

It’s actually true that Frazier said the lady who worked in the office was standing on his left. Everything you’ve claimed that he said is made-up BS.

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2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...

Or it could be that you’re full of crap.

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However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...

LOL. Another one for the fabrications list.

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Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

You haven’t proven squat. A much more “explainable cause” is that it’s not Stanton.

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3) I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...

No we do not know that. You made it up.

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We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...

Well at least you’re not still falsely claiming that he placed her “peeking” over Shelley’s shoulder like you used to.

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I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform,

Bull. We don’t know that. You made it up.

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and we have identified Sanders,

Who’s “we”?

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that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips... Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate this other than to claim it. You don’t even know how wide her hips were. Or how tall she was.

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And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate that it’s even a dress, much less a “uniform color”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
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I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...
What about what Sarah Stanton said to the FBI in her testimony? Why you do completely ignore what she says in favor of other people? Sarah Stanton never testified to any of this. Why don't you ever believe what Sarah Stanton said? Sarah Stanton never testified to being in that location. She said she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went upstairs to the second floor looking out the window to see what was happening. Does that sound like she would be to the right?   

Why would Stanton be to the left of Frazier, hear the shots, move all the way over to the opposite side, then "stare at Frazier in shock"? This makes no sense. Fraizer and Stanton never stated this in testimony or interviews. Yeah, this really disqualifies Stanton as the prayer figure.   

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Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...
Blurry pictures are not good for a positive identification. All the accumulated evidence proves Stanton is not the prayer figure. All the proof you claim has been disqualified based on appearance, Buell Fraizer's recollections, and Stanton's own FBI statement.   

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You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...
I'm claiming a massive obese weight for Stanton? Sarah's family members said she was 300-500 pounds with white hair on that day in your interview. Did you forget what her family told you about her weight and hair color? You sounded flustered when they volunteered that information to you. That description disqualifies her as the prayer figure. Prayer figure is not obese and there is no white hair. 

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Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography -
The question is why are you trying to claim an obese woman is a figure that is not obese? That automatically disqualifies your claim. Why do you continue repeating a false claim?

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You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...
Doyle, you came up short by a country mile trying to claim Stanton is prayer man in the photography department. You're trying to downsize an obese woman into a smaller male figure. Doesn't work out too well for you. How is it disingenuous to ask serious questions when there is a major conflict with your claim?


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That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly - yet we don't see Stanton there...But probably the firmest proof that Stanton is not to Frazier's left is the fact I asked you to show Stanton to Frazier's left in my last post and you responded by once again claiming Stanton was to Frazier's left but flagrantly avoided showing us so in the photography like I asked you...You can't do it...So you are the one failing to answer the questions here not me...
We already know that the figure you claim is not Stanton based on appearance. How can you claim this is still Stanton when the figure is much much smaller and is a man?

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Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...
Now you're just making absurd stuff up. The prayer figure is not wearing a hat or a wig. We can see the figure has no hat on in the photo. Sarah's family said she didn't wear wigs. Sarah had white hair according to her family and the prayer figure has black or dark colored hair. This easily disqualifies Stanton as the prayer figure. 

Let's forget about the hair color, ok? You have a serious problem with the figure's weight. The figure is not the obese weight stated by Sarah's family, so you haven't 'proven beyond any doubt' since this major weight conflict disqualifies Stanton to be the figure. How can a much much larger woman be a much much smaller figure as you claim?     

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I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...
How would you not know what Sarah Stanton weighed when you interviewed her family? They told you how much she weighed. Did you forget what they told you? They said 300 pounds at first and then said she weighed even more, maybe 500. This account of her weight disqualifies her as the prayer figure. We know where she worked. After she heard three explosions, Sarah immediately went inside the building up to the second floor to look out the window to see what was happening. She went to the restroom and returned to her desk. This comes directly from her statement to the FBI. How can she be to the right of Frazier "staring in shock" when she never gave a statement as to doing this? Why do you dismiss her testimony in favor of a story you make up?     


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And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform, and we have identified Sanders, that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee (Oswald had a break in color fabric from his shirt to his pants)...I'm sorry but ignoring my previous post and asking the same disproven questions again does not serve as any valid response to my previous post whose points you are obviously evading with your pretend demands...

Your argument is already invalid on just what you are writing. Stanton doesn't "have to be" prayer man just because you say it is. The appearance alone already disqualifies her and the figure is wearing a man's shirt not a dress. You can see it is a man's short sleeve shirt where it cuts off at the waist. If Stanton was the figure, the hips would be even more wider and the arms would be even bigger with her obese weight. Why are you not giving a valid response to the fact that Stanton would be even larger than the prayer figure? Why would you downsize Stanton's weight on purpose just so you can still make your claim? A much larger figure can't be downsized on purpose Doyle, that makes your claim invalid. Are you purposely still trying to make Stanton weigh less than she really did?   

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Can you prove you are really "Rick Plant" and not a Kamp alias?
Look me up on Facebook. Why are you always so obsessed with Kamp and all these other people? 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 05:11:47 PM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 05:50:30 PM

Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 30, 2019, 05:56:11 PM
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Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

If you don’t want your postings “f***ed” with, then stop spreading lies and misinformation.

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Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...

The misquotes that you offer certainly don’t.

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I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...

If you want answers for what Bart says, then freaking ask Bart.

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That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reason you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

No, there’s no automatic default. You need to prove your own claims.

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Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t describe her there.

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nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...

That’s your most ridiculous fabrication yet. She stood there because she wasn’t “pretty” enough? Who are you to decide who’s pretty, topless car wash boy?

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In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...

Because he didn’t say that.

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You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...

Says the guy who (mis)quotes Lovelady’s FBI statement.

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On that one count alone I win this debate...

You can’t debate your way out of a wet paper sack. Certainly not by lying and making things up.

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Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...

More made-up nonsense. You know nothing about Sarah Stanton.

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You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...

Circular. You’ve done nothing to prove that Frazier was even talking to Stanton at this particular time.

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In any case, in the video linked at the beginning Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps

No he doesn’t. You either have a lousy memory or you are flat out lying.

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- so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...

Standing still and staring at each other are two different things no matter how many mental gymnastics you go through to try to equate them.

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Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...

Bull. There are a lot of people on the steps who aren’t visible in Altgens. Besides, we’re talking about Darnell, not Altgens.

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You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...

No she wasn’t. You made that up.

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You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...

WTF? Do you ever listen to yourself?

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You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...

No we don’t. You made that up.

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Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...

Then let’s see the “skilled analysis”.

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Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...

I thought she was wearing a wig because ”that would make sense in a professional situation”. You come up with the most ridiculous lame excuses to justify your fabrications.

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Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...

Not when your “evidence” is all made-up crap.

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You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate.

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate that any of this is true. You’ve just claimed it.

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We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...

Circular. Again. You claim to “see” lots of bizarre things.

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As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...

A one second clip shows someone staring for 3 minutes and then going inside. This would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

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Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...

How do you know what shirt Oswald wore that day?

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You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...

You have neither demonstrated that prayerperson is 5’ 4”, nor that Sarah Stanton was 5’ 4”.

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We proved that in comparison to Frazier...

Who’s “we”, and where is this proof?

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You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...

Why should anybody pay attention to your fantasy about what a good scan would show?

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And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...

How could you possibly know that?

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Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

He’s not the one who should quit this.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 30, 2019, 10:36:17 PM
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Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Brian, I don't see your posting as being serious. I've asked you for an honest answer and you came up preposterous theories. Saying she isn't pretty enough would make her change positions is the worst comment I've ever read.  Not to mention blonde hair turning jet black in the shadows is another one. Your answer for her being heavy because she is an employee is not a serious answer. Where did you come up with these? All you've posted is inadequate answers to prove your claim.

You still haven't posted a valid response to my question. Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says? You take Buell Fraizer at his word, Lovelady and the rest, but you automatically reject Sarah Stanton's own testimony. Why is that?   

Of course my statement it is sincerely offered, that's why I asked you, but you didn't answer it. Why are you avoiding this question? It makes no sense that you use the testimony of everybody else but you automatically reject Sarah Stanton's own testimony when she honestly gave her statement.

 It appears you are holding a serious grudge against other people and your whole mission is to prove them wrong at any cost. Well, your evidence fails to live up to the claims you make. You don't post serious answers to serious questions.

In order to firmly you state you've proven something, there must be solid evidence that leaves no doubt. You've failed to answer the fact that Sarah Stanton had white hair and you saying she was wearing a hat or wig isn't a valid answer. The figure is not wearing a hat and the figure has a receding hairline with a part on the right side. This also eliminates Stanton to be the figure.

It makes no sense for Stanton to squeeze by all those people just to move to the right to "stare at Frazier".  Frazier never said Stanton squeezed by him to move to the right. Stanton never even mentioned Buell Frazier in her statement. This is a direct conflict with your claims that do not pass the smell test.

Why do you avoid the fact that Sarah Stanton never mentions witnessing Buell Fraizer in her statement?

Your claim is that Sarah Stanton is the prayer figure. You've been shown evidence that makes your claim invalid. Now it's up to you to prove your claim, not making others to prove your claim.

I've never stated Oswald is the prayer figure so you haven't won the debate. All I'm stating is the prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton for obvious reasons.

You were told by Sarah Stanton's family that she was much much bigger and had white hair. The figure you are claiming does not match that description. How can you still say the figure is Stanton?

How can you honestly still try to make an invalid claim when you know the truth about Stanton not matching the figure?

Honestly, I think you have invested too much in this theory and you are too ashamed to admit you are wrong so you are just going to keep up with it as long as you can.               
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 30, 2019, 10:39:47 PM
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Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

How can you firmly state you've proven Stanton to be prayer man when you are still unsure of her weight and hair color? There are major conflicts that you have not proven yet. Those still need to be answered until you can say you've proven anything.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 30, 2019, 11:49:56 PM
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How can you firmly state you've proven Stanton to be prayer man when you are still unsure of her weight and hair color? There are major conflicts that you have not proven yet. Those still need to be answered until you can say you've proven anything.

It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 11:51:17 PM

OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 12:08:52 AM
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It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D

Ford isn't answering what was said...

If Stanton was so obvious and so obese she should be easy to find in the photography...

Ford mocks and ridicules but he comes up a little short in the credible response department and we still await Ford's showing us where Stanton was on the steps?...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 12:24:36 AM
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It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D

Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
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OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...

You “ignore” everybody who refutes your made-up nonsense, because you certainly can’t respond to any of it.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:12:28 AM
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OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...

Brian Doyle just has admitted defeat by ignoring the serious questions for his invalid claims. He is afraid to answer any serious questions for his prayer woman claim. Any serious researcher would be able to answer the claims they make. Obviously Doyle is unable to give me a valid answer. Doyle is unable to answer why the prayer figure doesn't match the description given by Stanton's family. Doyle is also unable to answer why he doesn't believe Sarah Stanton's own testimony but has no problem using other people's testimony. Doyle is also unable to answer why he gives preposterous answers for serious questions. Funny how Doyle calls other people cowards claiming they are afraid to debate him, but ducks my questions for debate and slinks away into the abyss. Brian Doyle can no longer prove his bogus prayer woman claim since serious questions still remain that Brian refuses to answer. Brian Doyle can't answer these questions because it will prove his Stanton claim to be invalid. This is the reason he hides away on ignore so he won't have to answer serious questions. Sarah's testimony and physical appearance eliminates her as a prayer man candidate for eternity. Brian Doyle has no real evidence to disprove what i just stated. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:14:05 AM
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Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.

Yep, he's quite shameless. And yep, that interview was quite something!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:14:36 AM
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Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

:D

Says the guy who puts people on ignore who already shredded him more than once.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:19:25 AM
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Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.

Worst interview I've ever heard. Doyle still pretends he doesn't know Stanton's weight or white hair. Then Doyle argued with the woman saying she wore wigs or colored her hair so he could still make his bogus claim. The wig claim still is a lot better than the shadows or she wasn't pretty enough to be standing to the right. Most absurd comment I've ever heard. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:25:59 AM
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Ford isn't answering what was said...

If Stanton was so obvious and so obese she should be easy to find in the photography...

Ford mocks and ridicules but he comes up a little short in the credible response department and we still await Ford's showing us where Stanton was on the steps?...

She may be down in the street, she may have already gone back inside, she may own one of the heads in the entranceway identified by Mr Stancak or Mr Kamp.

But who cares where she is in Darnell? She's not PrayerMan, as you yourself proved!  Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:30:11 AM
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Worst interview I've ever heard. Doyle still pretends he doesn't know Stanton's weight or white hair. Then Doyle argued with the woman saying she wore wigs or colored her hair so he could still make his bogus claim. The wig claim still is a lot better than the shadows or she wasn't pretty enough to be standing to the right. Most absurd comment I've ever heard.

Indeed------the only thing Mr Doyle got right was to record the interview, which let us all hear his manipulativeness and incompetence!  Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:36:42 AM
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Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Good God, imagine what it must be like to be Mr Brian Doyle 24/7!  :-X
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 31, 2019, 02:16:22 AM
I would be interested is seeing a picture of Ms Stanton around that time. 3-5 hundred lbs would seem totally obvious-- esp. with white hair which.... [as was mentioned] prayer person does not have. I don't believe this woman weighed any 500 lbs. I also don't think that prayer person was a woman. It looks like a guy that could be eating a sandwich and drinking a soda 
The blur just makes the figure appear larger--- which anyone should  be able to see  :-\
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 02:26:43 AM
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Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Why?

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Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

Talk about creating a pseudo-problem!

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So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Nothing to 'resolve'!

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Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

You obviously haven't looked very carefully at the Darnell footage!

Quote
This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.

Question for you, Mr Mason! How many people still on the crowded steps did notice Officer Baker rushing past?

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And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too,

 :D

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thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

I fear we must diagnose a case of severe Doylitis here, nurse!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 03:41:16 AM
Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

2. it would be improbable for Stanton to remain in a position where she is blocking the door AND also has her LOS mostly blocked. Surely she is aware of her own girth and coupled with being in front of the door and having LOS blocked, she being a reasonable intelligent woman likely would move to some spot a little less conspicuously in the way, and affords her a MUCH BETTER LOS to Elm St.

3. IF that white object in the hand, (and imo it IS an object and NOT a hand itself in sunlight) the white object being raised to the mouth level indicates the probability of a white coffee mug, of the sort that have been captured in a photo of the 2nd floor lunchroom, thus Stanton might have taken such porcelain type mug out with her to the front entrance. In which case, all the more reason to find a position where she could drink from such mug with less probability of someone inadvertantly bumping her, while doing so, which could result in the mug being dropped and shattering on the front entrance level she is standing on.

4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

5. It has NOT been established that Sarah Stanton LEFT the entrance landing between Wiegman film panning past and Couch/Darnell films starting 20 seconds approximately after Wiegman

6. It IS reasonably probable that Sarah Stanton WAS on the front steps just a few seconds BEFORE Wiegman starts since the JFK limo is passing by in the Hughes film, and no shots fired, so no reason for Stanton to have left and returned into the front lobby even as late as the start of the Weigman film.




Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 03:56:34 AM
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Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

And why, pray, can't that be the argument? Or why can't Ms Stanton have gone down into the street? And can you show us where you have refuted the Stanton-ID claims of Messrs Stancak and Kamp?

More to the point, why should we care? We know that Ms Sarah Stanton is not PrayerMan in either Wiegman or Darnell, so she's of no intrinsic interest here. Your and Mr Doyle's obsession with this quite secondary figure is just a way of not looking honestly at the short-receding-dark haired PrayerManInDarnell. Which is why, of course, you feel the need to call him Prayerblob, so that you can keep up this silly Anybody-But-LHO charade!  :D

Quote
My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/O5ZcitU.jpg)

Quote
1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

More Doylesque nonsense!

Quote
4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

But she has been excluded as Prayer Man beyond reasonable doubt, so you can relax and stop agonising over the matter.  :)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:17:21 AM
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Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

2. it would be improbable for Stanton to remain in a position where she is blocking the door AND also has her LOS mostly blocked. Surely she is aware of her own girth and coupled with being in front of the door and having LOS blocked, she being a reasonable intelligent woman likely would move to some spot a little less conspicuously in the way, and affords her a MUCH BETTER LOS to Elm St.

3. IF that white object in the hand, (and imo it IS an object and NOT a hand itself in sunlight) the white object being raised to the mouth level indicates the probability of a white coffee mug, of the sort that have been captured in a photo of the 2nd floor lunchroom, thus Stanton might have taken such porcelain type mug out with her to the front entrance. In which case, all the more reason to find a position where she could drink from such mug with less probability of someone inadvertantly bumping her, while doing so, which could result in the mug being dropped and shattering on the front entrance level she is standing on.

4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

5. It has NOT been established that Sarah Stanton LEFT the entrance landing between Wiegman film panning past and Couch/Darnell films starting 20 seconds approximately after Wiegman

6. It IS reasonably probable that Sarah Stanton WAS on the front steps just a few seconds BEFORE Wiegman starts since the JFK limo is passing by in the Hughes film, and no shots fired, so no reason for Stanton to have left and returned into the front lobby even as late as the start of the Weigman film.

You're missing the point along with Doyle. Both of you are making up bogus scenarios for your claims. Stanton's testimony already disqualifies her as the figure. Stanton's appearance disqualifies her as the figure. Buell Frazier's interviews disqualifies her as the figure.  Why make up stuff for your claim?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:21:35 AM
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And why, pray, can't that be the argument? Or why can't Ms Stanton have gone down into the street? And can you show us where you have refuted the Stanton-ID claims of Messrs Stancak and Kamp?

More to the point, why should we care? We know that Ms Sarah Stanton is not PrayerMan in either Wiegman or Darnell, so she's of no intrinsic interest here. Your and Mr Doyle's obsession with this quite secondary figure is just a way of not looking honestly at the short-receding-dark haired PrayerManInDarnell. Which is why, of course, you feel the need to call him Prayerblob, so that you can keep up this silly Anybody-But-LHO charade!  :D

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/O5ZcitU.jpg)

More Doylesque nonsense!

But she has been excluded as Prayer Man beyond reasonable doubt, so you can relax and stop agonising over the matter.  :)

Based on this photo we all can Sarah Stanton is not Prayer Man. Sarah's family said she was larger than in this photo which was taken a few years after. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:25:56 AM
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Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

:D

This isn't how it works. It's up to you guys to prove your claim. All the evidence proves it to be invalid.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 04:40:33 AM
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Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps,

I can’t believe you’re falling for Doyle’s BS.

Where did Molina say he was when he talked to Calvery?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:53:42 AM
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Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

(11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

This disqualifies Sarah Stanton as the figure.

Your stuff hasn't proved your theory and you're just grasping at straws now. Stanton had white hair not blonde, that would not turn jet black in a shadow. Absolutely ridiculous claim. Stanton said she had no idea what was going on. That also eliminates her as prayer man since prayer man knew what was happening. The figure is not wearing a dress. Again, you discredit Sarah Stanton's own testimony for your own made up stories about what you think she was doing. Well, she would know more about what she was doing than you would. Sarah's family said she was much bigger than the figure, so that overturns all your claims. You thought the figure was wearing a hat, wig, or hair piece holding a purse with a dress on so you have no idea what you are looking at.   

Sarah Stanton went inside after the shots. You are posting false claims here. What does her being an employee have to do with her being extra large? You say she isn't pretty enough and that means she needs to move to the right? More ridiculous stuff coming from you. Where did I ever say it was Oswald? So, it's you that isn't being taken seriously making silly assumptions.

Why don't you believe what Sarah says?     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 04:20:57 PM
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You're missing the point along with Doyle. Both of you are making up bogus scenarios for your claims. Stanton's testimony already disqualifies her as the figure. Stanton's appearance disqualifies her as the figure. Buell Frazier's interviews disqualifies her as the figure.  Why make up stuff for your claim?

fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 04:58:13 PM

I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...

FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...So FBI either omitted or altered the two statements of the witnesses who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room, which is a sure sign of guilt...

Rick Plant, of course, plays dumb, ignores this, and takes the side of the proven liars (the FBI) and quotes their reports as the credible source...

Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...We see Prayer Man making that exact turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Frazier described Sarah as doing...No person who was honestly evaluating the evidence would not give that the significance it obviously deserves...Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...No serious researcher would ignore this...So counter to what Rick Plants says, the opposite is true and Frazier's statements leave no doubt Prayer Man is Stanton - as well as the obese female features, woman's face in Davidson, and Sarah's 5 foot 4 height that Plant ignores in his one line answer...

To this Zeon replies "Fair enough" and gives Plant credit he doesn't deserve and hasn't earned by his material...

I have Plant on ignore exactly for this reason...The only reason I responded was because Zeon quoted him...
 


 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 05:16:49 PM
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I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...

You haven’t proven squat.

Quote
FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...

Frazier never described Sarah being in the prayerman spot. You just made that up.

Quote
Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...

He didn’t say she turned to him. You just made that up.

Quote
Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...

Frazier didn’t say that he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes. You just made that up.

Quote
Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still

This is ridiculous, even for you. Darnell shows everybody standing still. It’s a one second view of the entryway.

Why do you continue to repeat the same falsehoods over and over again?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 05:44:13 PM
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I can’t believe you’re falling for Doyle’s BS.

Where did Molina say he was when he talked to Calvery?

Mr. BALL. Now, November 22, 1963, the place you worked was in the second floor of this School Book Depository Building.
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you go out on the street to see the motorcade?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. I was standing on the front steps.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. MOLINA. Right next left of me was Mr. Williams and close to there was Mrs. Sanders.
Mr. BALL. Pauline Sanders.

Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Roy Truly?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes; he was standing with Mr. Campbell; they were going out to lunch.
Mr. BALL. They were in front of you were they?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You saw the Presidents car pass?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I heard the shots.
Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound?
Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I just stood there, everybody was running and I didn't know what to do actually, because what could I do. I was just shocked.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Yes, this fellow come to me---Mr. Williams said, somebody said, somebody was shooting at the President, somebody, I don't know who it was. There was some shooting, you know, and this fellow said "What can anybody gain
371


by that"; he just shook his head and I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to .think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.

Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. MOLINA. No.

Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.

Mr. BALL. What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 05:53:38 PM

Molina is talking about after he came back from the Knoll when he saw Calvery in the lobby...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 06:32:13 PM
LOL. He didn’t say anything about talking to her on the steps. When she came up to him to tell him about the shooting they were in the lobby.

Therefore these blobs are not Calvery and Molina.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 09:03:18 PM

Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 11:09:47 PM
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fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

Mr Stancak's reconstruction offers only one (and IMO an unnecessarily awkward) posture for PrayerMan.

Perfectly possible that PrayerMan has both feet on the first step down. Or----------one foot on the first step down and the toes of the other foot resting on the landing.

No problem, nice and comfortable, you're welcome! Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 12:11:58 AM
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Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...

No, we don’t know that Lovelady is on his way up the extension. There’s no definitive proof that’s Lovelady.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 04:32:42 PM
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Mr Stancak's reconstruction offers only one (and IMO an unnecessarily awkward) posture for PrayerMan.

Perfectly possible that PrayerMan has both feet on the first step down. Or----------one foot on the first step down and the toes of the other foot resting on the landing.

No problem, nice and comfortable, you're welcome! Thumb1:

Nope, it's not possible that Prayer Man had both feet on the step...

If so then by Stancak's own shadow analysis when Prayer Man has his shoulders squared forward in Wiegman his left side would necessarily have to be in sun...

I have been posting for years that Stancak intentionally avoided doing any graphic for Wiegman because he realized it disproved his foot on the step claim for the reason above...

Because it proved Prayer Man isn't Oswald it was ignored but that doesn't mean it isn't good proof...

Prayer Man can't have both feet on the step or even one foot on the step because then the 5 foot 9 Oswald would be 6 inches shorter than Frazier and what we see in Wiegman and Darnell is a 5 foot 4 Stanton who is 8 inches shorter...

 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 04:38:44 PM
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Because it proved Prayer Man isn't Oswald it was ignored but that doesn't mean it isn't good proof...

“Doyle said so” doesn’t constitute “good proof”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 07:27:29 PM
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fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

Oswald isn't the factor in this current situation.  The fact of the matter is that the prayer figure is not Stanton for all the obvious reasons which Doyle refuses to acknowledge.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
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Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...

Brian, I remain unable to conclude that the Person/Image, in front of GloriaCalvery/Image as she is entering the stairway, as not representing KarenWestbrook.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 08:18:29 PM
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I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...
:D  :D  :D
Brian, in order to say you've proven something everyone should be agreeing with you. So far, I haven't see one person agree with your faux Stanton claim. You haven't proven anything, since there are major conflicts that you still refuse to acknowledge. You hide away from me on ignore so you don't have to. That's not what a confident "researcher" who says they've proven something would do.     

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FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...So FBI either omitted or altered the two statements of the witnesses who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room, which is a sure sign of guilt...
Brian, the only reason you're saying the FBI is lying is because Sarah Stanton's FBI testimony completely destroys your faux Stanton claim. This is the precise reason you ignore her solid testimony. Have it your way Brian, you can no longer use any FBI statements for any of the witnesses, since you say the FBI is lying. Hopefully, all the posters will continue to remind you of that.   

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Rick Plant, of course, plays dumb, ignores this, and takes the side of the proven liars (the FBI) and quotes their reports as the credible source...

Stanton's FBI testimony is only one aspect of your seriously flawed claim. You still have a major problem with Stanton's weight, hair color, and with Buell Frazier's recollections. Trying to discredit the FBI testimony doesn't get you anywhere since you still have major problems. As I just mentioned above, you can no longer use any FBI witness statements for anything you write since you say they are all liars. Hopefully, the other posters will hold you accountable for your position on the FBI not being credible as you just stated. 

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Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...
Frazier always gestures to his left where Stanton is standing. He never puts her to his right where you are claiming. Looks like you've added another falsehood to your list. In order for Stanton to be in the position you claim, she would've had to squeezed through all those people with her large weight then get into position to "stare" which is not accurate since Stanton was to the left of Frazier where he was talking to her. There wouldn't be enough time for her to move all the way to the opposite side. It also makes no sense for her to do that. You still haven't answered this as you hide away on ignore so you won't have to.         

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Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...
Which evidence says the opposite? You've never posted any evidence.

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What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...
Stanton was to his left. You still haven't answered how an extra large woman could squeeze her way all the way over to the other side to get into position in order for all this to happen. There would be no time and it makes no sense for her to move all the way over when she was already in perfect position. 

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We see Prayer Man making that exact turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Frazier described Sarah as doing...
Prayer man is not facing Frazier. Prayer man is partially turned which again refutes your faux claim. 

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No person who was honestly evaluating the evidence would not give that the significance it obviously deserves...
You're embellishing the body position of prayer man in order to make your faux claim.

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Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...

Prayer man and Frazier are not "looking at each other". You still haven't answered how an extra large woman could squeeze her way all the way over to the opposite side in order for all this to happen. There wouldn't be enough time since she was already in position to the left of Frazier.   


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No serious researcher would ignore this...

No serious researcher would make the absurd claims as you do.

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So counter to what Rick Plants says, the opposite is true and Frazier's statements leave no doubt Prayer Man is Stanton - as well as the obese female features, woman's face in Davidson, and Sarah's 5 foot 4 height that Plant ignores in his one line answer...
:D  :D  :D

You haven't countered anything except to list your same faux claims. You still haven't answered all the major conflicts that is still present. You have no way to measure that prayer figure is 5' 4". Stanton's was more obese than the figure, so you still have a major problem that you refuse to acknowledge. We haven't seen a woman's face in Davidson, even he doesn't fully support your faux claim.

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To this Zeon replies "Fair enough" and gives Plant credit he doesn't deserve and hasn't earned by his material...

Your "material" is laughed at by everyone, so I'm not sure why you have the faux attitude. The only thing you've earned is 560 falsehoods that continues to grow each time you post. 

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I have Plant on ignore exactly for this reason...The only reason I responded was because Zeon quoted him...

You have me on ignore since you're unable to answer for your faux claims, so you choose to hide away so you won't have to answer for your obvious lies.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 01, 2019, 08:21:00 PM
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Nope, it's not possible that Prayer Man had both feet on the step...

If so then by Stancak's own shadow analysis when Prayer Man has his shoulders squared forward in Wiegman his left side would necessarily have to be in sun...

But I thought you didn't accept Mr Stancak's shadow analysis?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 08:43:36 PM
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2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

:D :D :D

This is the absurd bunk you came up with? You gotta be joking. Wigs? Scarfs? Hats? Hairpieces? Shadows? Are you serious Doyle? How long did it take you to think this up?

Point out for us the wig, scarf, hat, or hairpiece you see on prayer man. The man is not wearing anything since a receding hairline is visible. Where you see these ornaments adorned on prayer man's head?

White hair is never going to turn jet black. 

You haven't proven anything, you're posting more fallacious comments for absurd theory.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 08:45:07 PM
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fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

I suppose the question for me is, and has been for awhile now, what is Mr Stancak's reasoning that caused the "placed" mannequin to be male, positioned in that exact location, and with an awkward stance?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
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:D :D :D

This is the absurd bunk you came up with? You gotta be joking. Wigs? Scarfs? Hats? Hairpieces? Shadows? Are you serious Doyle? How long did it take you to think this up?

Point out for us the wig, scarf, hat, or hairpiece you see on prayer man. The man is not wearing anything since a receding hairline is visible. Where you see these ornaments adorned on prayer man's head?

White hair is never going to turn jet black. 

You haven't proven anything, you're posting more fallacious comments for absurd theory.

You're being way too kind to Mr Doyle, Mr Plant----------------he has proven something, namely that PrayerMan cannot be Ms Sarah Stanton. He's just too incompetent (and mad) to see the fact the rest of us saw many moons ago!  Thumb1:
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 08:53:34 PM
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Brian, I remain unable to conclude that the Person/Image, in front of GloriaCalvery/Image as she is entering the stairway, as not representing KarenWestbrook.

It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

Plus he said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal in his testimony...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 08:57:06 PM
Prayer Man not having both feet on the step is provable by looking at Stancak's overhead graphic...

If you pivot Prayer Man to have both feet on the step in that overhead graphic you can see his left shoulder would have to be lit by sun...

Stancak realized this which is why he didn't offer any graphic for Wiegman...

Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

Not only does Ford show the methodology of the Prayer Man people but he shows that he can't answer the evidence for Prayer Man being Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
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It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

If you look closely and then invent a bunch of made-up BS.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
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Prayer Man not having both feet on the step is provable by looking at Stancak's overhead graphic...

If you pivot Prayer Man to have both feet on the step in that overhead graphic you can see his left shoulder would have to be lit by sun...

Stancak realized this which is why he didn't offer any graphic for Wiegman...

Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

Not only does Ford show the methodology of the Prayer Man people but he shows that he can't answer the evidence for Prayer Man being Stanton...

:D

If prayer man is lit up in the sun that means the shadows wouldn't be as dark, correct?

That means the deep shadows wouldn't be dark to make prayer man's hair black as you said. 

This proves that Stanton still would be seen with white hair and not black as you claimed.

This means Brian, you proved for us with this revelation, that Sarah Stanton is not Prayer Man. Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 09:14:27 PM
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Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

A baseless claim by a lying hack about what a photo shows is neither “photogrammetric evidence” nor “firm science”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 09:42:52 PM
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Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

Great observations, and well stated. IIRC, about 6 years ago, some 50 years, a half century, after 11/22/'63, "someone" decided to "claim" that an image of a person, not properly identified, without any corroborating eyewitness confirmation, represented the most famous accused LoneGunmanAssassin in history, LeeHarveyOswald. Said Person/Image's identity , aka PrayerPerson, had not been an issue prior to "someone's claim", IIRC.

After research, and research studies, it became my drawn conclusion that the utmost likely person represented by PrayerPerson/Image, is the now deceased SarahDeanStanton, then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who like so many others, had simply gone outside during lunch time to view the passing JFK Motorcade.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 09:54:15 PM
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It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

Plus he said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal in his testimony...

I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 02, 2019, 12:43:03 AM
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After research, and research studies, it became my drawn conclusion that the utmost likely person represented by PrayerPerson/Image, is the now deceased SarahDeanStanton, then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who like so many others, had simply gone outside during lunch time to view the passing JFK Motorcade.

“Research”. LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on November 02, 2019, 01:10:31 AM
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I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.

Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 02, 2019, 03:55:10 AM
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Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/U99Kgib.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 02, 2019, 02:52:48 PM
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I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.

I thought that too until Graves pointed me to a close up done by Larsen...You can see eyes and mouth on that person...You can see the shape of Molina's head and its balding pattern...

Molina said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal right after the shots...

It is 100% Molina...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 02, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
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I thought that too until Graves pointed me to a close up done by Larsen...You can see eyes and mouth on that person...You can see the shape of Molina's head and its balding pattern...

 BS:

You and Graves think you see all kinds of things that you can never demonstrate.

Quote
Molina said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal right after the shots...

No he didn’t. That’s another thing you made up. What he actually said was,

“Just after his car disappeared from my view I heard 3 shots. I moved from my position on the steps in the direction of where the Presidential car was proceeding.”

Moved from my position on the steps. This figure is on the steps.

And as I keep reminding you, Molina said he talked to Calvery inside the lobby.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 02, 2019, 05:45:56 PM

The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The Prayer Man people who are led by Bart Kamp are ignoring the proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and are pushing their false theory despite the evidence that disproved it...

The Prayer Man people are ignoring that the other two people who witnessed the same interview wrote that the Coke on the 2nd floor part was in reference to the time period when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

In Fritz and Bookhout's notes the Coke on the 2nd floor part was clearly in reference to when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

This is covered in Hosty's notes as going to the 2nd floor to get a Coke...

If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going down to the 1st floor so they mirror the chronology of Fritz and Bookhout's notes exactly...

The Fritz and Bookhout notes then have Oswald going out with Bill Shelley in front and low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going outside to watch the presidential parade...

All 3 of those notes of the same interview have the same chronology and that chronology starts with the Baker lunch room encounter 75 seconds after the last shot...

These Prayer Man nuts have been poisoning the research field with this Greg Parker-hatched Prayer Man crap ever since 2013...

Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 02, 2019, 07:49:32 PM
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Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

Zeon, actually Brian and I are discussing the Person/Image in DarnellFilm seen, partially, about midway up the stairs and just in front of GloriaCalvery/Image, likely about 20 seconds post shooting. Unfortunately, we both could be wrong, but only one of us can be correct.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 02, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
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The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The Prayer Man people who are led by Bart Kamp are ignoring the proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and are pushing their false theory despite the evidence that disproved it...

The Prayer Man people are ignoring that the other two people who witnessed the same interview wrote that the Coke on the 2nd floor part was in reference to the time period when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

In Fritz and Bookhout's notes the Coke on the 2nd floor part was clearly in reference to when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

This is covered in Hosty's notes as going to the 2nd floor to get a Coke...

If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going down to the 1st floor so they mirror the chronology of Fritz and Bookhout's notes exactly...

The Fritz and Bookhout notes then have Oswald going out with Bill Shelley in front and low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going outside to watch the presidential parade...

All 3 of those notes of the same interview have the same chronology and that chronology starts with the Baker lunch room encounter 75 seconds after the last shot...

These Prayer Man nuts have been poisoning the research field with this Greg Parker-hatched Prayer Man crap ever since 2013...

Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...

Are there any indications as to exactly when FBI SA JamesHosty's notes were transcribed?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 04:26:02 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5114787ee4b0807f570d7372/1468887598860-UKTKZZRO34RO36JHWPYH/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kJcjAgNXXIx78eP5oxMAaMhZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVF7lRD0kTV_jCIdadZiyILdMnbld6C889x5bxbOSo9o42YPfIniGCpLu0rKCrZrb0k/image-asset.jpeg)(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SHO9wpdnpDA/WRkmKAz5pVI/AAAAAAABLyM/os_Yt3txEGcD-j_HxcvC47olVjbx4wYIACLcB/s530/TSBD-06.png)

It appears to me that Frazier [who is very tall] is standing at the very top of the landing. Prayer person [obviously somewhat shorter] is standing yea much down on the steps. Seemingly leaning somewhat [if you will] against the wall. Seldom do women stand like that. Frazier had jet black hair. Prayer person has somewhat medium dark hair. It is certainly not white nor does Prayer-person weigh in excess of 200 lbs. If a picture is worth a thousand words this one is now only worth a couple of dozen.
Quote
The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

                                                                              Brian Doyle

About the notes...who knows? Members here have the right to ignore or accept what they choose.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 03, 2019, 05:11:47 AM
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The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

You haven’t “uncovered” or “proven” squat. You’ve just lied and made up a bunch of nonsense.

Quote
If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Your cherry-picking is shameless. If you look at Fritz’s and Bookhout’s notes, Oswald said he was on the first floor when the motorcade went by.

Quote
Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...

Stanton’s relatives didn't place Oswald in the lunch room during the shots. That was just your made-up BS.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
According to her affidavit ...Sarah Stanton was on the steps. The unfortunately blurry Weigman photo still shows her location---

(https://gaylenixjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/weigman-crop-of-sarahstanton.jpg)

Quote
Stanton’s relatives didn't place Oswald in the lunch room during the shots.
   The relatives were not witnesses to anything nor did they testify to anything. The claim that Mrs Stanton weighed 3-5 hundred lbs is obviously bogus.
https://gaylenixjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/sarahstanton.png
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 03, 2019, 03:45:01 PM

Thread hijack...

No serious researcher would ignore that both Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton over on the west side of the portal when the limousine passed...

Prayer Man doesn't have a woman's face for no reason in the Davidson enhancement...

The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 09:21:48 PM
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The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...

  This face...wearing glasses from "The Matrix"?

 (https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

Brian ...you are cracking me up :D
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 03, 2019, 09:49:34 PM

That's not the female face in Davidson...

I drew that in fall 2016 before I managed to get Stanton's photo...That was just to show how well the face accommodated female features...

If you are going to show an image please show the one that was referenced...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 10:01:10 PM
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That's not the female face in Davidson...I drew that in fall 2016 before I managed to get Stanton's photo...That was just to show how well the face accommodated female features...If you are going to show an image please show the one that was referenced...
I do not know where that is. Until it is found for me...I am stuck with the trans-sexual Prayer Person above.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 04:06:03 AM
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Thread hijack...

No serious researcher would ignore that both Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton over on the west side of the portal when the limousine passed...

No they didn’t. You just made it up.

Quote
Prayer Man doesn't have a woman's face for no reason in the Davidson enhancement...

The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...

“Doyle said so” isn’t evidence.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 04, 2019, 03:02:56 PM

It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 04, 2019, 05:40:31 PM
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It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...

It continues to be my belief, my visual interpretation, that the Person/Image, aka PrayerPerson, is facing the camera and is not looking slightly to said Person/Image's left. And, that does indicate that the Person/Image's facial right side is in shadow, but therefor does not indicate dark hair on the back of the head.

However, my visual interpretation indicates the beginning of a slight head turn to Person/Image's left, or the end of a head turn back from said left.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on November 04, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
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It continues to be my belief, my visual interpretation, that the Person/Image, aka PrayerPerson, is facing the camera and is not looking slightly to said Person/Image's left. And, that does indicate that the Person/Image's facial right side is in shadow, but therefor does not indicate dark hair on the back of the head.

However, my visual interpretation indicates the beginning of a slight head turn to Person/Image's left, or the end of a head turn back from said left.

Larry,

You need to change the 3 in Brian's post to a 6.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 06:58:51 PM
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It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...

Still can’t figure out how to post images, huh?

I think that’s what got your thread locked in the first place.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 04, 2019, 07:30:43 PM

I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 04, 2019, 09:46:50 PM
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I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...

 :D

Sarah Stanton's face does not appear in "Davidson's enhancement". Even Davidson doesn't believe it does.

It doesn't "have to be" Stanton since no real evidence points that way. All the real evidence proves the opposite of your foolish claim. Prayer Man is not Stanton.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 10:31:15 PM
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I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

No, it shows an image that looks nothing like Sarah Stanton.

Quote
This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t say that Stanton was in that spot. That’s another Doyle lie.

Also, Stancak identified Stanton as being in a different spot, so if you’re going to name-drop him don’t twist what he said.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 10:33:03 PM
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:D

Sarah Stanton's face does not appear in "Davidson's enhancement". Even Davidson doesn't believe it does.

It doesn't "have to be" Stanton since no real evidence points that way. All the real evidence proves the opposite of your foolish claim. Prayer Man is not Stanton.

Doyle thinks that if he repeats the same falsehoods over and over again, they will somehow become true. He is the worst kind of charlatan.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 04, 2019, 11:30:40 PM
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Still can’t figure out how to post images, huh?

I think that’s what got your thread locked in the first place.
Actually, it [Prayer Woman] was Duncan MacRae's thread. Brian zealously hijacked it..... Some 4970 posts--- 4900 of them were Brian's ::)
Each thread post has a number starting with a Post # 1 Prayer Woman [Duncan's]..... Not everybody has the same number of posts to a page. I for example have 25 to a page. You can have 10-50 if you select it so in your profile. If I have to search all day for Brian's ideas...count me out.
I give up. Prayer Person can be whoever anyone wants. If it is not Oswald, it will still not change my mind that he was set up. 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 12:38:03 AM
The reason that thread is so long is because there are certain nay-sayers who are impervious to evidence who just post negative comments to whatever is shown...

In any case the Davidson enhancement was posted in Duncan's original post and it showed Sarah Stanton's female face on Prayer Man...

Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 12:49:54 AM

Kamp wrote:

Quote
Greg made mention of this thread in the McAdams Google group
And the village idiot walked in as well (ScrumDrum) and where there are other wastes of space who gather to spew their vitriolic rubbish as well.
What a pathetic lot over there, Greg did the right thing over there and leave those losers to themselves.......
Doyle cuts a sorry figure as always as even the trash over there makes fun of him and his retarded observations.
That clown could not even deliver a bottle of milk.

Greg left because he knew I shredded his Prayer Man crap and he couldn't respond...

Greg knows Prayer Man is Stanton...He practically admitted so on my Prayer Woman Facebook page...

Who does Kamp think he's fooling?...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 05, 2019, 01:54:18 AM
One thing not to do...try and add something that isn't there. So trying to draw over the face just isn't Kosher. Drawing arrows is OK.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/asg9gdlar/Darnell.jpg)

After further review--I would say that Prayer Person looks like-could be-- [somewhat]....a woman with a big butt wearing a dress. I don't think it is Scarf Lady. The rear-end sticks over from the white blob under the right elbow to under the left elbow.
It also looks like someone who is holding a coffee cup in their right hand.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 03:32:20 PM
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One thing not to do...try and add something that isn't there. So trying to draw over the face just isn't Kosher. Drawing arrows is OK.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/asg9gdlar/Darnell.jpg)

After further review--I would say that Prayer Person looks like-could be-- [somewhat]....a woman with a big butt wearing a dress. I don't think it is Scarf Lady. The rear-end sticks over from the white blob under the right elbow to under the left elbow.
It also looks like someone who is holding a coffee cup in their right hand.

Nobody says anything when the Prayer Man people impose Oswald's face over the face of Prayer Man...

You are correct when you say you see a woman with a big butt and dress in Darnell...That's correct and when Bill Miller was given the sole spot on arguing against Prayer Man by Gordon who acts as a dictator, who arbitrarily selects who is allowed to talk about the subject and who isn't, the main thing he pointed-out was that Prayer Man had noticeably wide hips...Jim D is one of the most dishonest people in Kennedy research because he made a public statement saying when he first saw the Prayer Man image he thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald...Jim stopped saying that because Jim is a dirty political bas**** who, when he knows something he said proves somebody right, stops saying it in order to sustain the unfair persecution of that person for posting correct evidence...Jim has a whole bag full of dirty tricks and whole slew of sycophants that help him achieve that to make sure the guy who posted the correct evidence is punished and driven off the Kennedy internet so his buddy Bart Kamp can continue to post wrong evidence...

The Prayer Man crowd is a nasty group that uses some very dirty tactics to destroy anyone who dares point-out they are stupidly wrong on the Prayer Man theory and that some very simple evidence makes it more than clear that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...This Prayer Man issue represents something very ugly...It represents a movement of unskilled hacks hijacking and taking over the JFK internet under the control of corrupted and ignorant moderators on the DPF and EF who succeeded in getting anyone who opposed them banned by that insider dirty moderator...When I posted a crop of Altgens that had Lovelady labeled Oswald in order to show Lovelady's height Gordon came in and said that image represented my being an incompetent and that he was going to use it as a basis for my banning...It was obvious I did not create that image and was only using it because it was the best image I could find of Lovelady's height, but the power-abusing Gordon had found his excuse...When I pointed-out to Gordon that Bill Miller had used the exact same image with no such protest from himself, Gordon answered "Bill Miller is a long term accepted EF poster" so it was OK for him...Obviously Gordon makes up the rules as he goes along and rides the back of certain members from the cowardly safety of his moderator position...I was banned shortly after with Gordon saying he didn't have to explain why with none of the Prayer Man people I was handily disproving complaining...So while the JFK research community sells itself as a principled group that calls out the government on its abuse of power and corruption it actually practices much worse and does so for the sake of a spoiled core of favored insider members who all collectively don't want to admit they were wrong on Prayer Man...Jim D is the kind of guy who lets an innocent person be hanged for his own wrongdoing and then agrees with the dirty hangman the whole time only doing it so an effective critic of his wrong claims can be removed using dirty tactics delivered by a total incompetent mod...

Sarah was obese so if you have skill you can see that obese left forearm and its thickness in Darnell...Sarah had big obese hands, so what you are seeing is not a cup it is Sarah's obese right hand glowing in partial sun...

The proving of Prayer Man being Stanton serves two important causes...It breaks up the dirty group that has hijacked the JFK internet and uses the Prayer Man issue in order to get around their basic lack of skill...And it also sends Oswald back up to his true location in the 2nd floor lunch room and gets the evidence back on track...

I'll leave it to others to figure out the cowardly lack of integrity of the JFK research community that they would let someone suffer such a disgraceful removal for the crime of standing up for the correct evidence...Then going on their merry way and pretending nothing happened while the nasty's continue to get away with their abuse...   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 09:55:00 PM
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Nobody says anything when the Prayer Man people impose Oswald's face over the face of Prayer Man...

You are correct when you say you see a woman with a big butt and dress in Darnell...That's correct and when Bill Miller was given the sole spot on arguing against Prayer Man by Gordon who acts as a dictator, who arbitrarily selects who is allowed to talk about the subject and who isn't, the main thing he pointed-out was that Prayer Man had noticeably wide hips...Jim D is one of the most dishonest people in Kennedy research because he made a public statement saying when he first saw the Prayer Man image he thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald...Jim stopped saying that because Jim is a dirty political bas**** who, when he knows something he said proves somebody right, stops saying it in order to sustain the unfair persecution of that person for posting correct evidence...Jim has a whole bag full of dirty tricks and whole slew of sycophants that help him achieve that to make sure the guy who posted the correct evidence is punished and driven off the Kennedy internet so his buddy Bart Kamp can continue to post wrong evidence...

The Prayer Man crowd is a nasty group that uses some very dirty tactics to destroy anyone who dares point-out they are stupidly wrong on the Prayer Man theory and that some very simple evidence makes it more than clear that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...This Prayer Man issue represents something very ugly...It represents a movement of unskilled hacks hijacking and taking over the JFK internet under the control of corrupted and ignorant moderators on the DPF and EF who succeeded in getting anyone who opposed them banned by that insider dirty moderator...When I posted a crop of Altgens that had Lovelady labeled Oswald in order to show Lovelady's height Gordon came in and said that image represented my being an incompetent and that he was going to use it as a basis for my banning...It was obvious I did not create that image and was only using it because it was the best image I could find of Lovelady's height, but the power-abusing Gordon had found his excuse...When I pointed-out to Gordon that Bill Miller had used the exact same image with no such protest from himself, Gordon answered "Bill Miller is a long term accepted EF poster" so it was OK for him...Obviously Gordon makes up the rules as he goes along and rides the back of certain members from the cowardly safety of his moderator position...I was banned shortly after with Gordon saying he didn't have to explain why with none of the Prayer Man people I was handily disproving complaining...So while the JFK research community sells itself as a principled group that calls out the government on its abuse of power and corruption it actually practices much worse and does so for the sake of a spoiled core of favored insider members who all collectively don't want to admit they were wrong on Prayer Man...Jim D is the kind of guy who lets an innocent person be hanged for his own wrongdoing and then agrees with the dirty hangman the whole time only doing it so an effective critic of his wrong claims can be removed using dirty tactics delivered by a total incompetent mod...

Sarah was obese so if you have skill you can see that obese left forearm and its thickness in Darnell...Sarah had big obese hands, so what you are seeing is not a cup it is Sarah's obese right hand glowing in partial sun...

The proving of Prayer Man being Stanton serves two important causes...It breaks up the dirty group that has hijacked the JFK internet and uses the Prayer Man issue in order to get around their basic lack of skill...And it also sends Oswald back up to his true location in the 2nd floor lunch room and gets the evidence back on track...

I'll leave it to others to figure out the cowardly lack of integrity of the JFK research community that they would let someone suffer such a disgraceful removal for the crime of standing up for the correct evidence...Then going on their merry way and pretending nothing happened while the nasty's continue to get away with their abuse...   

Nobody cares about the beef you have with others on various forums.

You still haven't proved anything since Sarah Stanton is not the prayer figure.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 09:56:20 PM
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Doyle thinks that if he repeats the same falsehoods over and over again, they will somehow become true. He is the worst kind of charlatan.

He certainly is but he is also proven wrong over and over again.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 10:12:13 PM

Rick Plant

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #220 on: Today at 09:55:00 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 10:17:20 PM
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Rick Plant

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #220 on: Today at 09:55:00 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
:D   :D  :D

Still hiding on ignore eh? Still afraid to defend your bogus claims? You should since they are ridiculous and all have been disproven. 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 05, 2019, 10:35:57 PM
I only mention that it LOOKS like a coffee cup. See Brian... you are changing a statement from 'looks like' to a statement where I say 'it is'.
 Is that not what you gripe about in your rant about other posters in other forums?
Prayer Person looks like they are holding something ----TO ME. I mean who stands like that with their hands like a praying mantis?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable.gif) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable2.gif)

There was a clip posted by Barry Pollard---At the very end of it you can see a large woman with a big butt as she turns to her left and looks back. Her right hand has that very same look is Prayer Person & dress about the same shade.....if so ergo !!

(http://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2016_12/58585469cf867_couchloveladyshelley7l8kc9.gif(GIFImage518346pixels).gif.805da2f5805e3e2ebd8a78c992f6b7af.gif)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 11:24:46 PM
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I only mention that it LOOKS like a coffee cup. See Brian... you are changing a statement from 'looks like' to a statement where I say 'it is'.
 Is that not what you gripe about in your rant about other posters in other forums?
Prayer Person looks like they are holding something ----TO ME. I mean who stands like that with their hands like a praying mantis?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable.gif) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable2.gif)

There was a clip posted by Barry Pollard---At the very end of it you can see a large woman with a big butt as she turns to her left and looks back. Her right hand has that very same look is Prayer Person & dress about the same shade.....if so ergo !!

(http://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2016_12/58585469cf867_couchloveladyshelley7l8kc9.gif(GIFImage518346pixels).gif.805da2f5805e3e2ebd8a78c992f6b7af.gif)

Brian isn't even sure himself of what he wants to claim.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 12:59:14 AM

Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
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Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...

It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 02:29:57 AM
Mark A. Oblazney

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #227 on: Today at 02:11:55 AM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 02:31:13 AM
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Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...
I see someone's head go by as that lady is turning...you see a purse? "Both hands" huh?
Brian ...you must have Z ray vision. Superman has nothing on you!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 02:42:15 AM
I knew I got that 'coffee cup' idea from somewhere....

(https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/prayer-man-in-wiegman-gif.gif?w=612&h=465)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 03:52:02 AM
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I see someone's head go by as that lady is turning...you see a purse? "Both hands" huh?
Brian ...you must have Z ray vision. Superman has nothing on you!

No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 06, 2019, 04:36:53 AM
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Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...

A purse Brian? World's smallest purse. Your fake claims become worse by the day.


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No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...
 
:D :D :D

Hilarious Brian
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 04:50:37 AM
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No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...

Yes, you’re very skilled at making up crap and lying about what witnesses said.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 09:05:33 AM
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It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 03:21:03 PM
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It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
It does look like [it could be] someone with a camera taking a picture.
The questions that it would raise are... Why are they so far back into a corner where there would be such a poor field of lens vision? Why not step out further to get a better picture? Also--what ever happened to the picture or pictures they took?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 03:29:29 PM

My opinion is that the best intelligent technical analysis and the proof it gains should not be allowed to be violated by persons who ignore it and post obviously inferior viewpoints or material...

What is the point of developing the best evidence if people are going to ignore it and therefore undermine and insult its value?...

It can't be a "dude" if Davidson proved Prayer Man had a woman's face...When we got to proving Davidson people got weird and avoided admitting the clearly-shown proof...It is my opinion that they shouldn't be allowed to do that because it damages board quality...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 04:31:04 PM
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It does look like [it could be] someone with a camera taking a picture.
The questions that it would raise are... Why are they so far back into a corner where there would be such a poor field of lens vision? Why not step out further to get a better picture? Also--what ever happened to the picture or pictures they took?

Thanks for agreeing to that as a possibility, sir.  I'm afraid it wasn't LHO, though.  He was busy upstairs on the 6th floor killing the president.  This whole thing has become a parlour game of sorts.  According to Patrick Collins, there are approximately 260 pieces of evidence that just about proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the little marxist pig shot Kennedy.  Take 250 away, the evidence still remains, whether he had help or not (including all the voices in his tiny little head).  And there was ONLY one Oswald (sorry, john armstrong.  money can make people believe what they should not).
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 05:47:29 PM
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Thanks for agreeing to that as a possibility, sir.  I'm afraid it wasn't LHO, though.  He was busy upstairs on the 6th floor killing the president.  This whole thing has become a parlour game of sorts.  According to Patrick Collins, there are approximately 260 pieces of evidence that just about proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the little marxist pig shot Kennedy.

LOL.  Does he specify what they are?  Even more ridiculous than Bugliosi's "53", no doubt.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 05:52:31 PM
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It can't be a "dude" if Davidson proved Prayer Man had a woman's face...

But he didn't.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/50390f82525f5158db33acb14cb03b36/tenor.gif)
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I didn't prove anything, yet.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 05:58:22 PM
Quote
260 pieces of evidence
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LOL.  Does he specify what they are?  Even more ridiculous than Bugliosi's "53", no doubt.
I was wondering about that too. I have never heard of this Patrick Collins but I concede that he is entitled to his opinion. I believe it has been demonstrated that the Warren Commission's case does not nearly equal the some of it's parts...not even close :-\