JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Brian Doyle on October 01, 2019, 10:27:38 PM

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 01, 2019, 10:27:38 PM
Listen from minute mark 6:55 to 16 minutes in this video of Gary Mack interviewing Frazier in 2002...Frazier describes staying put after the lady came up saying the president was shot...Mack is very inquisitive and gets Frazier to confirm the staying still on the steps after the announcement from the hysterical lady was for 3 or 4 minutes...Frazier then said he tried to follow Lovelady & Shelley up the extension but since they lost him he turned back and went back to the steps...

Frazier then makes clear that the lady he was standing with was still there after this little jaunt up the Elm St extension and return...Frazier then told Sarah his little walk did him no good and then he and Sarah went back inside...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

(Don't think Kamp and his website were not fully aware of all this and holding it back)...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 02, 2019, 01:48:15 AM

This knocks Kamp's selection for Stanton out of contention...Frazier says he and the lady he was standing with stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after the shots...

Kamp's bogus selection for Stanton can't be her because not only is she too far away to speak to but Darnell is 25-30 seconds after the shots and Kamp's Stanton has moved substantially away from the landing...Frazier was clear they both stood there for 3 minutes - so that disproves Kamp's selection for Stanton...Is this part of the "good research" DiEugenio says they are doing on Kamp's site?...Not only that but Stanton is still in the same place when Frazier returns from the extension...That conclusively eliminates Kamp's bogus choice...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 02, 2019, 02:28:52 AM


If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm. Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

Brian,

1) As I've said, five minutes "works" for me.

2) In his 2013 SFM interview, Frazier says he was standing at the corner of Houston Street and Elm Street (i.e., at the corner of the TSBD where the plaque is) when he saw Oswald walking up the TSBD side of Houston Street towards him, that Oswald was within 10 or 12 feet of him when he crosses over to the other side of Houston Street.  Frazier says he watched Oswald start to cross Elm Street ("as though he was going to get a sandwich, or something"), and that he (Frazoer) then turned to answer someone's question and when he looked back towards Elm Street, Oswald "was gone".

Nitpicky Point being: Frazier couldn't have seen Oswald leave the dock area from where he was standing, but did correctly deduce that that was where Oswald had come from.

--  MWT  ;)



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 06:18:52 AM
Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

You’re a liar and a fabricator because you keep claiming that Frazier said they stared at each other for the longest time.

Quote
If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

He didn’t say he saw Oswald “come from the rear exit”. That’s another fabrication.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 06:22:44 AM
This knocks Kamp's selection for Stanton out of contention...Frazier says he and the lady he was standing with stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after the shots...

Another fabrication. He never says that the lady he was with was on the landing at all, much less that she stayed on the landing.

Quote
Kamp's bogus selection for Stanton can't be her because not only is she too far away to speak to but Darnell is 25-30 seconds after the shots and Kamp's Stanton has moved substantially away from the landing...

Bull. You could stand anywhere in the entryway and speak to someone anywhere else in the entryway. You’ve obviously never been there.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 02, 2019, 06:35:15 AM

Why do I get the sense with Iacoletti that he doesn't see himself chasing his own tail like everyone else does?...

I delivered the goods there with Frazier detailing the 3 minute staying still...That's when they stared at each other for the longest time...

We can now consign Iacoletti to the annoying gadfly category since he's not man enough to admit when he's wrong...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 07:06:56 AM
I delivered the goods there with Frazier detailing the 3 minute staying still...That's when they stared at each other for the longest time...

He didn’t say they stayed still for 3 minutes. You fabricated that too. You just can’t help yourself.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 02:15:48 AM
You’re a liar and a fabricator because you keep claiming that Frazier said they stared at each other for the longest time.

He didn’t say he saw Oswald “come from the rear exit”. That’s another fabrication.

You are right again John.

Also, in Buell Frazier's first recorded video he doesn't even remember the name of the woman he said stood next to him. Her name should have been embedded into his brain since that was an important moment in his life. 

And finally what defeats Doyle's phony claim is, every interview that Buell Frazier has given over the years, he always gestures with his left hand to where he says Sarah Stanton was standing. It is never to his right where Doyle falsely claims. Frazier also very clearly says in an interview that Stanton was to his left and he made that very clear. That ends Doyle's phony claim by Buell Frazier himself, since he never said he was "staring for the longest time in shock".That is just more fabrication. We also know that Sarah Stanton's testimony refutes the rest of this tale.   
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 03, 2019, 05:31:47 AM
And if that weren’t enough, Pauline Sanders said that she was on the east end side of the entrance, and that Sanders was next to her. Doyle fails on every count.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 03, 2019, 07:12:27 AM
...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but ..


Okay..... and...?  It is easier read while humming, "Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye Aye"
Quote
https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/dexys-midnight-runners/come-on-eileen (Come on, Eileen) Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye Aye

…...
Quote
07-09-2015, 09:52 PM  #402 (Al)bert Doyle 

FBI is lying Scully. They do so carefully by saying Rizzuto claimed Oswald was in the Village after returning from the Soviet Union. But a look at the claim would reveal the record shows the evidence Rizzuto was telling the FBI actually showed Oswald was in New York in 1961 and 1962 before the defecting Oswald returned from the Soviet Union. The Voice article was based on deceptive disinformation from the FBI in their attempt to discredit Steven Harris Landesberg and his explosive revelation that Oswald was seen with FBI provocateur Steven Richard Landesberg in New York. What FBI did was set-up SH Landesberg as being the same person as the provocateur who used the alias "L'eandes". As the evidence SH Landesberg was trying to reveal shows, L'Eandes was Steven Richard Landesberg. FBI knew this was dangerous so they screwed SH Landesberg and claimed he was L'eandes (As the inaccurate Village​ Voice article relates). That way they could commit him and not investigate the rest of the evidence that showed SR Landesberg was a provocateur who worked with the real Lee Harvey Oswald while a CIA imposter was in Russia.

Read the Education Forum Harvey & Lee thread to catch up.

Quote
http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/01/armstrong-evolving-landesberg-theory.html

John Armstrong and His Evolving Landesberg Theory
January 06, 2017 by W Tracy Parnell

...Armstrong called this revised piece The Story of Two “Steven Landesbergs” because he has now added the late actor Steve Landesberg of Barney Miller fame to his literary lunacy...

....UPDATE: Armstrong has removed all references to the “3 am Interview.”
However, because of an FBI document located by researcher Tom Scully,
.....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
Since a few select people like to loosely and freely bandy about the term truth as if it had no real consequence, well okay then, let us explore that word truth for a little awhile shall we?

Are we to believe that Sarah Stanton didn't know where she was standing at that most memorable point in time and probably the most memorable moment in time in her entire life when the sitting President of the United States was murdered?

Are we also to believe that Sarah Stanton cannot ascertain the difference between actual steps and a flat patio-like landing at her very own very familiar place of employment?

Are we then to further believe that Mrs Stanton had repeatedly and purposely lied outright when she stated on three separate occasions that she was "On the front steps" during the assassination and therefore could not be in and therefore was not in the so called Prayer Woman spot where there are no more steps available?

Are there any more steps available where Prayer Man stands? The short answer to that would be no. He is standing on the flat landing.

Are there any steps available where Sarah Stanton said she was standing on three separate occasions? The short answer to that would be yes, she specifically says she was on the steps and there are steps there.

Should we just throw out all of Sarah's never changing accounting on three separate occasions of exactly where she was standing that day with absolutely no good reason to lie? The short answer to that would be of course not, but if you must entertain the idea that she is in fact lying about where she was standing, then you do so at your own peril and at the lofty cost of your very own credibility.

I am asking the following questions in good faith and it is my hope to garner good faith answers by those who evidently propose Mrs Stanton was lying when she stated she was 'On the front steps' at the time of the assassination.

Questions:

1. Why should we completely discard Sarah Stanton's entire testimony where she says the same exact thing on three separate occasions and therefore basically accuse her of lying?

2. What could she possibly have to gain by lying on three separate occasions about where she was standing on that fateful afternoon?

3. Why or who would or could possibly coerce her to lie and say she was standing on the steps and for what possible purpose would she be coerced into lying?

4. What is it specifically that gives you suspicion and therefore cause to not believe her sworn testimony?

5. Who would know better where they stood that day than the person that was standing there themselves?

6. Can you reliably and with complete certainty place her elsewhere other than where she says she was?

Anyone?

Moving along now to the actual evidence.

Let us now check the actual record and see what Sarah Stanton herself actually has to say about this, you know, the one who was actually there "on the front steps" that day just as she stated at the time of the assassination and therefore was not on and could not be on the flat patio-like landing of those steps back in the corner where Prayer Man stands.

These three following quotes from her actual sworn testimony are brought to you by the courtesy of a poster named John Iacoletti and another poster named Rick Plant who are to be highly commended for their efforts in bringing this testimony forward.

There is no room for conjecture nor is there any room for speculation involved in the testimony that you are about to read by Sarah Stanton herself.

It is not hearsay and therefore cannot be refuted. Any attempt to do so is engaging in a mere masturbatory carnival like folly by those who evidently just like to hear themselves type or just to see their printed comments on a message board.

Take it away Sarah Stanton:

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady. I heard three shots after the President’s car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President’s car at that time. I cannot say positively where the shots came from. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day."

Excellent post Christina. It's amazing how some posters will completely disregard actual documented testimony in favor of their made up fiction pretending that what they claim are facts. Take the case of Sarah Stanton here. She testified to what she actually did on that day describing it in detail to the FBI. She absolutely had no reason to lie and only spoke of what she was doing after she heard the shots. But Doyle needs to disregard what she stated in favor of his theory of her being prayer woman, while adding his own fabricated stories so he can claim he is correct. If you want to be a credible researcher, you can't ignore and disregard what a credible witness testifies to. You certainly can't fabricate or make up stories that don't exist to prove a claim. And that is exactly what we have here.  Don't think they will be answering your questions because it defeats their claim. What Stanton testified to and what Frazier stated in interviews (about Stanton being to his left), puts an end to this Stanton "prayer woman" nonsense.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Matthew Finch on October 03, 2019, 01:04:38 PM
Spot on in every possible way, Christina (and hence Rick and John). At the risk of using one of his own terms against him, Mr. Doyle is completely uncredibele until he can refute each of those points (and er, post photos to confim).
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 03, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
Since a few select people like to loosely and freely bandy about the term truth as if it had no real consequence, well okay then, let us explore that word truth for a little awhile shall we?

Are we to believe that Sarah Stanton didn't know where she was standing at that most memorable point in time and probably the most memorable moment in time in her entire life when the sitting President of the United States was murdered?

Are we also to believe that Sarah Stanton cannot ascertain the difference between actual steps and a flat patio-like landing at her very own very familiar place of employment?

Are we then to further believe that Mrs Stanton had repeatedly and purposely lied outright when she stated on three separate occasions that she was "On the front steps" during the assassination and therefore could not be in and therefore was not in the so called Prayer Woman spot where there are no more steps available?

Are there any more steps available where Prayer Man stands? The short answer to that would be no. He is standing on the flat landing.

Are there any steps available where Sarah Stanton said she was standing on three separate occasions? The short answer to that would be yes, she specifically says she was on the steps and there are steps there.

Should we just throw out all of Sarah's never changing accounting on three separate occasions of exactly where she was standing that day with absolutely no good reason to lie? The short answer to that would be of course not, but if you must entertain the idea that she is in fact lying about where she was standing, then you do so at your own peril and at the lofty cost of your very own credibility.

I am asking the following questions in good faith and it is my hope to garner good faith answers by those who evidently propose Mrs Stanton was lying when she stated she was 'On the front steps' at the time of the assassination.

Questions:

1. Why should we completely discard Sarah Stanton's entire testimony where she says the same exact thing on three separate occasions and therefore basically accuse her of lying?

2. What could she possibly have to gain by lying on three separate occasions about where she was standing on that fateful afternoon?

3. Why or who would or could possibly coerce her to lie and say she was standing on the steps and for what possible purpose would she be coerced into lying?

4. What is it specifically that gives you suspicion and therefore cause to not believe her sworn testimony?

5. Who would know better where they stood that day than the person that was standing there themselves?

6. Can you reliably and with complete certainty place her elsewhere other than where she says she was?

Anyone?

Moving along now to the actual evidence.

Let us now check the actual record and see what Sarah Stanton herself actually has to say about this, you know, the one who was actually there "on the front steps" that day just as she stated at the time of the assassination and therefore was not on and could not be on the flat patio-like landing of those steps back in the corner where Prayer Man stands.

These three following quotes from her actual sworn testimony are brought to you by the courtesy of a poster named John Iacoletti and another poster named Rick Plant who are to be highly commended for their efforts in bringing this testimony forward.

There is no room for conjecture nor is there any room for speculation involved in the testimony that you are about to read by Sarah Stanton herself.

It is not hearsay and therefore cannot be refuted. Any attempt to do so is engaging in a mere masturbatory carnival like folly by those who evidently just like to hear themselves type or just to see their printed comments on a message board.

Take it away Sarah Stanton:

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

"On the front steps"

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady. I heard three shots after the President’s car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President’s car at that time. I cannot say positively where the shots came from. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day."

Can you specify specifically whom you are accusing to have called SarahDeanStanton a liar?

Can you provide specific quoted testimony specifically from SarahDeanStanton stating that she was standing "on the front steps", and not standing on the top step/landing as filmed at aproximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

Can you provide specific PersonImage identity specifically identifying said PersonImage representing SarahDeanStanton standing "on the front steps", and not on the top step/landing in the PrayerPersonImage location as filmed at approximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

And, can you provide specific PersonImage identity specifically indicating said PersonImage representing Mrs TE Saunders standing "on the front steps" at approximately 12:30pm CST, on 11/22/'63?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 03, 2019, 09:11:21 PM
Larry, didn't you read Sarah Stanton's own FBI testimony? Why are you still denying it?

Can you provide specific quoted testimony specifically from SarahDeanStanton stating that she was standing "on the front steps", and not standing on the top step/landing as filmed at aproximately 12:30pm, CST on 11/22/'63?

Sarah Stanton: (3-18-64 statement to the FBI, 22H675) “I was born on 6-9-22..I am a white female...when President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. William Shelley…Mr. Otis Williams…Mrs. T.B. Saunders…and Billy Lovelady.

This is specific quoted testimony from Sarah Stanton herself stating she was standing on the front steps. What more do you want? It specifically states that she was standing on the front steps, not on the top step landing. Not sure why people don't want to accept Stanton's own testimony that she was on the front steps and not on the top landing. Maybe because her testimony refutes their phony theory?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 03, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
 
Quote
    A picture is worth a thousand words but a blurry one is worth millions!

                                                                                Anonymous Individual

Here we go with another million---- Someone has failed to see.....
(https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/6238777_1866389threadclosedpng1560af053613b88c7f861a044fac2bf3_png19dcbd68d9e4f17d8d29e10187645e2a)


Wished it would say "And please don't start another one for crying out loud"
But...whatever gets you off  :-\
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 04, 2019, 07:07:18 PM
Mrs. Stanton's loved ones made every good faith attempt to set you straight, Mr. Doyle, ---->


but 99.9% of what they shared with you fell upon pretend deaf ears...because it did not fit your false narrative.

Specifically they couldn't have been more insistent w/you about in comparison to others that afternoon their loved one was the largest individual on scene in terms of her weight. For clarity sake, that doesn't make her any less of a human being, may G-d rest her soul...but

even the big bad wolf knew at some point--no matter how much he howled or huffed & puffed--that he was incapable of blowing down a solid foundation of brick.

The genuine evidence here is akin to a solid foundation of brick (Mrs. Stanton did not have a receding hairline; moreover, her hair was "white", premature gray on the day of the assassination; and, the genuine Prayer Man fits into her girth several times over).

Moving forward, please leave this family out of your shenanigans. It would be the respectful & responsible thing to do. Rest in Peace, Mrs. Stanton, may G-d rest your soul dear lady. Stand Down, Mr. Doyle, Stand Down!








 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 05, 2019, 04:21:38 AM
  Listen to 1:10 Right off the bat-------
Quote
https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
In case no one noticed...In the video--Wes Frazier said that he "thought the shots came from above".
That is not how he testified before the Commission......
Quote
Mr. BALL - That close. [the shots]
Now, you say you heard these three sounds which you later thought were probably shots, you thought it came from a certain direction.
Can you tell us from what direction as illustrated on the map?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Now I say, you know where it is the straight curve that goes under the underpass.
Mr. BALL - That is the parkway?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. I say it runs over this parkway, you don't have it on here--anyway, I say these railroad tracks there is a series of them that come up over this, up over this overpass there, and from where I was standing, I say, it is my true opinion, that is what I thought, it sounded like it came from over there, in the railroad tracks.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 05, 2019, 06:38:30 AM
Two thumbs up!  Thumb1:
What say ye, Mr. Trotter, How about daring to make some direct responses to more than a few Good Faith questions...

If it is your assertion that SarahDeahStanton testified that she was not on the top step/landing as filmed at about 12:30pm CST, and/or the time of the assassination of JFKSr and wounding of JBCJr, it is you that needs to provide a direct link to her testimony under oath/sworn statement making said claim. ::)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 07, 2019, 05:22:50 PM
If it is your assertion that SarahDeahStanton testified that she was not on the top step/landing as filmed at about 12:30pm CST, and/or the time of the assassination of JFKSr and wounding of JBCJr, it is you that needs to provide a direct link to her testimony under oath/sworn statement making said claim. ::)

On the contrary, it is Not my assertion to deny Mrs. Stanton being up on the front landing....In fact, it is my assertion she was right up there. However, the difference between the plain simple truth and what Mr. Doyle is trying desperately to pass off as "truth" & "evidence" is two different things altogether.

Here's the plain simple truth ----->

1
DL 100-10461
ARS/cms
"March 19, 1964
Dallas, Texas
"I, Mrs . Robert E . (Pauline) Sanders, Sr ., freely
furnish the following statement to Eugene F . Petrakis and A .
Raymond Switzer, who have identified themselves to me as
Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation .
"I am a Caucasian female employed as a clerk acrountant
at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm
Street, Dallas, Texas . I have been so employed for the past
61' years . I reside at 4226 Delmar Street, Dallas, Texas, and
was born November 6, 1908, Moran, Kansas .
"At approximately 12 :20 PM on November 22, 1963,
I left the lunchroom on the second floor of the building and
went out the front entrance to await the arrival of the Presi
dential Motorcade which I knew was due to pass the Depository
building at about 12 :30 PM . I took up a position at the top
of the front steps of the Depository building facing Elm Street .
To the best of my recollection I was standing on the top step
at the east end of the entrance .
"I recall that while standing there I noticed Mrs .
Sarah Stanton standing next to me, but I am unsure as to the
others . Mrs . Stanton is likewise an employee of the Texas
School Book Depository .
"To the best of my recollection I did not see Lee
Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and although
I knew him by sight as an employee of the building I did not
know him by name and had never spoken to him at any time .
"I do not recall seeing any strangers in the Texas
School Book Depository building at any time on the morning
of November 22, 1963 .
"After the motorcade par carrying President John F .
Kennedy passed, I remained a moment on the steps, then walked
out to the concrete island in front of the Depository building
to see what had happened . I remained there a moment and then
returned to the Depository building through the main entrance .
I then walked to the second floor where I usually work .
82
COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1381-Continued
2
DL 100-10461
"At approximately 2 :20 PM, I was told I could
leave the building and after signing out with a police
officer on the first floor, I left and returned to my
residence .
"I have read this and the two preceding pages
of th.s statement, initialed each page and each correction and
find it true and correct to the best of a0' knowledge .
"/s/Mrs . Robert E . Sanders, Sr .
"Witness :
"/s/Eugene F . Petrakis, Special Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas
3/19/64
"/s/A . Raymond Switzer, Special Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas
3/19/64 ."
83

As most of us can clearly comprehend here (because we have no false narrative to push), Mrs. Stanton was nowhere near Prayer Man's specific position over in the opposite corner of where she and Mrs. Sanders (Pauline) stood.

That said, due to three different filming sequences, which all capture Prayer Man continuously holding down his specific position throughout those different filming sequences, Mrs. Stanton cannot be Prayer Man, because she was over in the opposite corner, quote, standing next to me, unquote per Mrs. Sanders.

Where were both these women standing? Take it away once again, Mrs. Sanders -----> the east end of the front entrance, which rules Mrs. Stanton Out as the still unidentified male standing over in the opposite corner of their position.

Mr. Doyle needs to come clean, admit his mistake and move forward with a clean slate. Continuing to shovel horse manure isn't going to change its stench.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 07, 2019, 06:02:55 PM
On the contrary, it is Not my assertion to deny Mrs. Stanton being up on the front landing....In fact, it is my assertion she was right up there. However, the difference between the plain simple truth and what Mr. Doyle is trying desperately to pass off as "truth" & "evidence" is two different things altogether.

Here's the plain simple truth ----->

…...

As most of us can clearly comprehend here (because we have no false narrative to push), Mrs. Stanton was nowhere near Prayer Man's specific position over in the opposite corner of where she and Mrs. Sanders (Pauline) stood.

That said, due to three different filming sequences, which all capture Prayer Man continuously holding down his specific position throughout those different filming sequences, Mrs. Stanton cannot be Prayer Man, because she was over in the opposite corner, quote, standing next to me, unquote per Mrs. Sanders.

Where were both these women standing? Take it away once again, Mrs. Sanders -----> the east end of the front entrance, which rules Mrs. Stanton Out as the still unidentified male standing over in the opposite corner of their position.

Mr. Doyle needs to come clean, admit his mistake and move forward with a clean slate. Continuing to shovel horse manure isn't going to change its stench.

Close the thread, now? No, no, no....all of the witnesses lied!

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MolinaWilliamsSanders.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/MolinaSandersEastSide.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan J. Ford on October 07, 2019, 06:56:30 PM
Mr. Doyle,

Before you even attempt to cower away from or turn a blind eye to Mr. Scully's timely contributions, citing the statements of Mr. Williams and Mr. Molina, just be mindful both of these gentlemen put themselves in close proximity of Mrs. Sanders. Mr. Williams goes even so far as to specifically share his precise whereabouts, quote, "against the railing on the East side of the steps in front of the building".

When we add Mr. Molina placing himself there w/Mr. Williams and Mrs. Sanders, it's clear they are confirming her whereabouts, quote, "the East end" of the front entrance; and, according to Mrs. Sanders' own statement we know specifically where Mrs. Stanton was that afternoon, quote, "standing next to me".

Moreover, albeit somewhat later than the actual assassination sequence, lest you forget, Mr. Lovelady said the following while confirming he was doorway man, quote,  "Several people saw me. That lady shielding her eyes works here on the second floor." He could have only meant Mrs. Sanders or Mrs. Stanton as they were the only two workers standing there who worked upon the second floor. More specifically though, as we all can see in that famous Altgen's photo the lady shielding her eyes is over in the East end of the entrance, whether she be Mrs. Sanders or Mrs. Stanton standing next to her.

Come clean, Mr. Doyle, muster up the decency to admit you are forcing a false narrative to suit your "truth" & "evidence". Explain to the rest of us why we should believe you (someone 55+ years removed from the actual event) over those who were physically present? Are you a time-traveler, Mr. Doyle?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 07, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
Listen from minute mark 6:55 to 16 minutes in this video of Gary Mack interviewing Frazier in 2002...Frazier describes staying put after the lady came up saying the president was shot...Mack is very inquisitive and gets Frazier to confirm the staying still on the steps after the announcement from the hysterical lady was for 3 or 4 minutes...Frazier then said he tried to follow Lovelady & Shelley up the extension but since they lost him he turned back and went back to the steps...

Frazier then makes clear that the lady he was standing with was still there after this little jaunt up the Elm St extension and return...Frazier then told Sarah his little walk did him no good and then he and Sarah went back inside...

Iacoletti has been calling me a liar and fabricator but what you see in this statement is Frazier giving a very precise description of him and Sarah still being on the steps together for 3 minutes following Calvery's announcement that the president has been shot...Sarah is still on the steps when Frazier returns after going up the extension and they then go inside...

If you go to 13:00 you will hear Frazier describe seeing Oswald come from the rear exit and walk up Houston toward Elm...Frazier elaborates to Mack that this was "5 to 10 minutes" after the last shot...

(Don't think Kamp and his website were not fully aware of all this and holding it back)...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

    Let's face it. Frazier is Not a reliable witness. 40 years after the fact Frazier suddenly recalls seeing Oswald walking up Houston St immediately after the assassination? And likewise 40-50 years later Frazier recalls coming close to going toe-to-toe with Fritz on the night of 11/22/63? These most recent Porky Pies coming from Frazier should be put back in the oven. They are Half Baked.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 07, 2019, 08:46:49 PM

BrianDoyle can speak for himself, but I maintain the reached conclusion that PrayerPersonImage most likely represents SarahDeanStanton. And, considering the "east side" top step/landing area likely measured no more than about 21 square feet on 11/22/'63, I believe it is unlikely that SarahDeanStanton and PaulineRebmanSanders were both in the northeast corner of said small area.

I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

In any event, those persons who wish to think otherwise, that of course is their choice. However, any claim that PrayerPersonImage represents LeeHarveyOswald appears to be an assertion beyond evidence.

That said, it would be nice to have a statement by BuellWesleyFrazier indicative of the proper identity of the person represented by PrayerPersonImage for consideration.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 07, 2019, 09:35:39 PM

BrianDoyle can speak for himself, but I maintain the reached conclusion that PrayerPersonImage most likely represents SarahDeanStanton. And, considering the "east side" top step/landing area likely measured no more than about 21 square feet on 11/22/'63, I believe it is unlikely that SarahDeanStanton and PaulineRebmanSanders were both in the northeast corner of said small area.

I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

In any event, those persons who wish to think otherwise, that of course is their choice. However, any claim that PrayerPersonImage represents LeeHarveyOswald appears to be an assertion beyond evidence.

That said, it would be nice to have a statement by BuellWesleyFrazier indicative of the proper identity of the person represented by PrayerPersonImage for consideration.

    Somebody needs to explain why after 55+ years the eyewitnesses that were at Ground Zero on 11/22/63 have Not been sat down and shown JFK Assassination Images and queried as to: (1) What they saw, (2) Who was where, (3) Their itinerary following the kill shot, etc. Methodically doing this with The Newman's, SA Clint Hill, Dave Wiegman, Mary Moorman and others still alive would easily resolve many peripheral issues such as Prayer Man. With Buell Frazier often doing Road Shows makes it a dereliction of duty on the part of the JFK Research Community for an issue such as this to still be knocking around.     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 07, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
I have never felt that PrayerPersonImage's represented person can be positively identified by the filmed/pictured image alone, and rely upon my interpretation of corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information.

There is no “corroborating indicative evidentiary valuable information“.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: George Gustafson on October 09, 2019, 01:39:28 AM
Gentleman,

It appears that the worm has definitely turned on this  non starter of a non issue thread that God only knows why was started in the first place. I am thinking it is a case of glaring ineptitude on the part of some here as to why it was even started to begin with.

Is it April 1st? I know of another thread that was started on April 1 right here on this site as well. I know that thread very, very well as very concise and lengthy evidence was collected from that thread and now this one too I might add.

But the problem here is the evidence and it doesn't go against anyone else but you who even went so far as to have started this thread.

First it was the Prayer Woman thread on this very site that started this garbage, and now this horse shyte of a thread claiming "proof"...what next being forced  to watch someone named Brian Doyle washing cars in the nude?

At this juncture, I do believe I would be well advised to leave the entire Stanton family alone and completely out of this entire JFK picture altogether.

It's very simple. Just never mention their name again and walk away and call it a day.

It is more than abundantly clear what the evidence repeatedly states, both the oral as well as the visual evidence all inclusive.

Frankly it is now bordering on sheer harassment of this entire Stanton family by some here, and a fight or flight sense of one up man ship seems to be the order of the day and by necessity, nefariously leads up the charge.

I strongly suggest that this can no longer continue and will ultimately lead to no where else but a very long and contentious courtroom environment. Please also be advised that you are playing with a raging wildfire here.

Some here are treading on very, very thin ice and if they persist and wish to lose everything under the sun that they may have ever happened to own and have it taken away from them as a part of a court settlement, yet still be indebted to any familial offspring plaintiff in this matter for the rest of their life in the future, then it is crystal clear to the viewing audience that this needs to stop right here and it needs to stop right now.

Cease and Desist.

I am very surprised that the Stanton Family et al  hasn't filed a defamation and slander/libel suit yet, I really am.

Perhaps they aren't aware?

Any US Federal Court Judge in the entire land would see fit to do so if these charges were brought to bare front and center. I guarantee it. Slick as a whistle. Slam dunk case.

Who knows, maybe I'll personally give them a call myself and offer to represent them pro bono should they so desire as compiled from the vast amount of evidence available here at this web site as well as at the Prayer Woman Facebook web site.

An old barrister friend and staunch courtroom opponent of mine that I adored immensely by the way, once said to me - "George? The only evidence at the scene of the crime and the only evidence in the aftermath of the scene of the crime is the evidence we missed, otherwise it's all still there, see, hiding in plain sight, waiting to be found"

My point here is absolutely nothing of value evidence wise was found to be useful with regards to Sarah Stanton as is evidenced by all of the previous posts here. There is nothing more to look for and anything more pertaining to the Stanton name even being mentioned any longer is sheer harassment and can now be proven in a court of law.

There is a lot of potential documented evidence out there on the internet right now being written about the surname Stanton, needlessly to begin with by the way, but now, now it is just pure harassment to continue to even utter the name Stanton on any JFK site ever again nor attempt to contact them at all in any way in the future.

The audacity of some to drag this poor family's name through this muck all over  the internet and for what?!
 
You are most welcome and oh hey, thanks for the free tip blasted all over the internet about the Stanton family name which gave me an idea to check on a potential liability lawsuit on behalf of the Stanton family, and as it turns out, we have a solid case.

I will also have you know, we lawyers can never, ever sleep well at night until we know deep in our grubby little cowardly souls that we have fleeced you and fleeced you until our coffers are overflowing and we can fleece you no more. I do know some real crooked lawyers who would love nothing more than to dig into an impending lawsuit like this one. Real vipers they are. You would be considered a snack, low hanging fruit.

Every man is liable for their own printed word and we have all of it, every bit of it. From the time you type it to the time it makes it to the air in print, we are in there, working overtime in between.

But by all means, go ahead and keep latching on to the Stanton family name and posting it far and wide like some raving lunatics as it only adds fuel to the fire and hundreds of thousands more dollars worth of liability damages. Keep racking up further charges.

So in that regard, by all means, dig in and proceed while I see about getting a little something filed against you who slander the Stanton family name and the technological vehicles in which allow you do it and by extension, the owners of said vehicles.

That is my professional opinion on this matter and the good news for you is that that might normally have cost you $1950 US dollars to even be made personally aware of, but here I am, the good guy that I am, outright giving you this information in this instance for absolutely nothing and completely free of charge in all in an attempt to allow you to save yourselves.

Capisce?

GG
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 10, 2019, 04:25:05 PM

The original post of this thread showed a C-SPAN video where Buell Frazier confirmed that after Calvery got to the steps he and Sarah Stanton stayed still for 3 minutes...

That is proof that Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time in another statement since they are interchangeable...

Which in turn is confirmation and proof that Frazier's staring at Prayer Man in the Darnell clip is Frazier staring at Sarah Stanton as he described...

The Prayer Man people are not credible because they are deliberately ignoring many other examples of proof that Prayer Man is Stanton like her female face in Davidson, wide woman's hips, and exact 5 foot 4 height - not to mention both Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 10, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
The original post of this thread showed a C-SPAN video where Buell Frazier confirmed that after Calvery got to the steps he and Sarah Stanton stayed still for 3 minutes...

That is proof that Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time in another statement since they are interchangeable...

They are not at all interchangeable. Frazier said nothing about them staring at each other. You made that up.

Quote
The Prayer Man people are not credible because they are deliberately ignoring many other examples of proof that Prayer Man is Stanton like her female face in Davidson,

Davidson said he didn’t prove anything.

Quote
wide woman's hips,

You have no proof of that whatsoever.

Quote
and exact 5 foot 4 height

You don’t know Stanton was exactly 5 foot 4. You just made that up. There’s also no evidence that prayerperson is exactly 5 foot 4 anyway.

Quote
- not to mention both Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t place Stanton in the Prayer Man spot. You just made that up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 11, 2019, 07:01:42 PM

I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...

Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...

I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...

It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 11, 2019, 08:25:30 PM
I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...
It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell.
 
So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 11, 2019, 10:02:12 PM
Mrs. Stanton's loved ones made every good faith attempt to set you straight, Mr. Doyle, ---->


but 99.9% of what they shared with you fell upon pretend deaf ears...because it did not fit your false narrative.

Specifically they couldn't have been more insistent w/you about in comparison to others that afternoon their loved one was the largest individual on scene in terms of her weight. For clarity sake, that doesn't make her any less of a human being, may G-d rest her soul...but

even the big bad wolf knew at some point--no matter how much he howled or huffed & puffed--that he was incapable of blowing down a solid foundation of brick.

The genuine evidence here is akin to a solid foundation of brick (Mrs. Stanton did not have a receding hairline; moreover, her hair was "white", premature gray on the day of the assassination; and, the genuine Prayer Man fits into her girth several times over).

Moving forward, please leave this family out of your shenanigans. It would be the respectful & responsible thing to do. Rest in Peace, Mrs. Stanton, may G-d rest your soul dear lady. Stand Down, Mr. Doyle, Stand Down!

I second that Alan.

This "interview" is a disaster. Doyle was unprepared with his questions, he was leading the women with questions and answers, answering for them, arguing over a brand of soda, acting like he knows more than they do. How can Doyle still say he "proved the figure is Sarah Stanton" after this mess?

Doyle's voice became flustered after the women told the real weight of Sarah Stanton that was between over 300-500 pounds. Her hair was also white which Doyle disingenuously tried to claim she colored her hair so he can still claim his phony "Stanton prayer woman" claim. Hearing that recorded was priceless.

After all this mess, we have more real facts from Stanton's family members that easily disproves Doyle's phony claim.

The prayer figure is not 300-500 pounds that Stanton was confirmed to be on that day. Also, the figure has dark colored hair with a receding hairline. The prayer figures hair color matches the dark color hair of Buell Fraizer. Stanton's hair was white on that day confirmed by her family. This prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton.

Buell Fraizer in all his video taped interviews always gestures with his left hand to where he says Stsnton was next to him. He even clearly stated that Stanton was to his left. Never once did Frazier say Stanton was to the right where the prayer figure stands.

Doyle can no longer make his phony "Prayer Woman" claim. He's been refuted by Sarah Stanton herself, Sarah's own family, and Buell Fraizer's recollections.

Case Closed.             
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 12, 2019, 03:27:48 AM
I have Iacoletti and "Bettina" (can she prove that is her real name and that is who she is?) on ignore...

Frazier clearly saying him and Sarah stayed still on the landing for 3 minutes after Calvery arrived is proof that Frazier and Sarah "stared at each other in shock for the longest time" after hearing Calvery announce the president has been shot...

I consider this proven with this evidence and not challenged on any credible level...

It proves Frazier has described staring at Sarah Stanton when you see him staring at Prayer Man in Darnell...

Oh goody. Doyle is back to lie about the evidence some more.

Notice how he doubles down on his lies?  Staying still and staring at each other are two very different things.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 12, 2019, 04:40:25 AM
I second that Alan.

This "interview" is a disaster. Doyle was unprepared with his questions, he was leading the women with questions and answers, answering for them, arguing over a brand of soda, acting like he knows more than they do. How can Doyle still say he "proved the figure is Sarah Stanton" after this mess?

Doyle's voice became flustered after the women told the real weight of Sarah Stanton that was between over 300-500 pounds. Her hair was also white which Doyle disingenuously tried to claim she colored her hair so he can still claim his phony "Stanton prayer woman" claim. Hearing that recorded was priceless.

After all this mess, we have more real facts from Stanton's family members that easily disproves Doyle's phony claim.

The prayer figure is not 300-500 pounds that Stanton was confirmed to be on that day. Also, the figure has dark colored hair with a receding hairline. The prayer figures hair color matches the dark color hair of Buell Fraizer. Stanton's hair was white on that day confirmed by her family. This prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton.

Buell Fraizer in all his video taped interviews always gestures with his left hand to where he says Stsnton was next to him. He even clearly stated that Stanton was to his left. Never once did Frazier say Stanton was to the right where the prayer figure stands.

Doyle can no longer make his phony "Prayer Woman" claim. He's been refuted by Sarah Stanton herself, Sarah's own family, and Buell Fraizer's recollections.

Case Closed.           r

I guess that makes Lee Harvey Oswald the 500-pound gorilla in the house.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 12, 2019, 04:47:45 AM
Oh goody. Doyle is back to lie about the evidence some more.

Notice how he doubles down on his lies?  Staying still and staring at each other are two very different things.

John,

Yup, they could have been doin' that "Virtually-At-My-Elbow" jitterbug thing.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 12, 2019, 03:56:12 PM
So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.

     Any position/belief supported via the ever changing  BS: distributed by Frazier = an immediate Disqualifier.  People for whatever reason shy away from pointing out the obvious. In "63" Frazier would have been called "Off", while today he would be labeled a "Train Wreck". Trust your own Baby Blues along with the Common Sense your parents bestowed upon you.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 12, 2019, 04:26:02 PM
So...what are you saying? Besides, I have proven that Wes Frazier changes his story constantly...so why rely on what he says? Someone please end this draconian blather.

Why rely on Frazier's statement that he and Sarah stayed still on the landing platform after Calvery got to the steps?...

Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 12, 2019, 05:22:12 PM
Why rely on Frazier's statement that he and Sarah stayed still on the landing platform after Calvery got to the steps?...

Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...

The usual Doyle circular argument.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 12, 2019, 07:56:42 PM

Well maybe because you can see what he says verified with your own eyes in the Darnell film perhaps? (duh)...
My vision is poor. Does that make me a complete failure? Regarding the Stanton lady...the big redhead in the [interview] picture? She may have weighed about 200-225 but she didn't weigh any 300-500 lbs whoever mentioned this.. that is completely absurd.
Because it was not posted, I will present the youtube video. I see Roger Craig in the parking lot rather directing his view of the event and cops turning people away from going behind the fence... How come? Then there are more cops scouring the area for what I might guess are bullet shells... How come? Other than that..I have no idea to what I must see with my own eyes [aided with reading glasses :-\] DUH


 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 05:01:51 AM

That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on October 13, 2019, 03:55:33 PM
That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...

     There Is Nothing to document Exactly what Frazier was "staring at" at that Exact point in time. Stop spouting Your Opinion as being fact. We KNOW Frazier is tall. His height, elevated physical position, & unimpeded line-of-sight would have given him a very Wide perspective. Something along the lines of a Light House. Your Opinion that Frazier was Focused at that Exact point in time on an object in his Immediate Proximity is extremely Short sighted. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 13, 2019, 05:43:35 PM
That's not the clip where Frazier is seen standing still and staring at Prayer Man...
You don't put it up and I can't seem to find it and the title of that video is 'Darnell Film' :-\
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 06:31:31 PM

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
     There Is Nothing to document Exactly what Frazier was "staring at" at that Exact point in time. Stop spouting Your Opinion as being fact. We KNOW Frazier is tall. His height, elevated physical position, & unimpeded line-of-sight would have given him a very Wide perspective. Something along the lines of a Light House. Your Opinion that Frazier was Focused at that Exact point in time on an object in his Immediate Proximity is extremely Short sighted.

Nothing except all the statements I have been quoting and film evidence I have been showing...

The Darnell clip clearly shows Frazier looking at Prayer Man for its entire length...

This was proven by the fact Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in their statements...It is also proven by the fact Prayer Man turns towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Sarah Stanton was described doing when she turned to Frazier to relate what Gloria Calvery had shouted on her way to the steps...

It is proven at this point that Prayer Man is Stanton because of this correct evidence...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:01:28 PM

Frazier told us what he was looking at in several interviews...He said after Calvery finished her shouting the president has been shot that he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time...

We know Prayer Man is Stanton because we can see her turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly at the precise time Frazier described Sarah turning towards him to discuss what Calvery had said...

The time frame in Darnell is the exact moment Frazier described himself staring at Sarah...So it is not true that we don't know what Frazier was looking at...He made it more than clear in several statements and no one has the right to ignore it...He said he was staring at Sarah and there we see him doing that in Darnell... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:02:17 PM
Nothing except all the statements I have been quoting and film evidence I have been showing...

The statements you’ve been “quoting” are lies. Frazier didn’t say that he stared at Sarah for the longest time. Neither Frazier or Lovelady ever placed Stanton in the prayerperson position. The Darnell clip doesn’t clearly show Frazierblob looking at Prayerblob. You made it all up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:07:58 PM
The statements you’ve been “quoting” are lies. Frazier didn’t say that he stared at Sarah for the longest time. Neither Frazier or Lovelady ever placed Stanton in the prayerperson position. The Darnell clip doesn’t clearly show Frazierblob looking at Prayerblob. You made it all up.

The video in the original post of this thread proves what you say isn't true...

You were making the same accusations before until I produced the linked video in question...Frazier clearly says he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes after Clavery had finished shouting...There's your proof of Frazier staring at Sarah for the longest time after Calvery finished her shouting...Despite your childish denials, this is proof...

I have repeatedly posted the evidence where Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...If you want to childishly deny it is up to you...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:09:43 PM
Frazier told us what he was looking at in several interviews...He said after Calvery finished her shouting the president has been shot that he and Sarah stared at each other in shock for the longest time...

No he didn’t. You made that up.

Quote
We know Prayer Man is Stanton because we can see her turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly at the precise time Frazier described Sarah turning towards him to discuss what Calvery had said...

Frazier didn’t give a precise time for when he spoke to Stanton. You made that up too.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 09:13:35 PM
The video in the original post of this thread proves what you say isn't true...

Bull. He says nothing in the posted video about staring at each other in shock for the longest time. Or staring at each other at all. You made it all up.

Quote
I have repeatedly posted the evidence where Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...If you want to childishly deny it is up to you...

No, you have never posted evidence of Frazier and Lovelady placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot, because it doesn’t exist. You made it up.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 13, 2019, 09:24:33 PM

I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 13, 2019, 09:47:18 PM
I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

And how can youse assure "youses' readers" it matters what youse opine?

Apparently Scully spends a lot of time thinking about me...

Probably due to that evidence of Janney being legitimate that he still hasn't answered for 6 years now...None of what he posts there has anything to do with the topic of Mrs Reid...

Well, sport, "youse guys" have been rather hard to miss! Ubiquity on steroids....not to mention, clueless!

Single-handedly, I ended some of this insanity. However, unlike author Janney, youse (unholy trinity) are a much tougher (acutely deluded)
"nut" to crack. What makes youse tick? Who cares!

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
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Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1510708928/ref=acr_dp_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=two_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)

Even a broken clock..... twice a day!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 10:57:03 PM
I didn't read Iacoletti's last 2 posts...I have him on ignore...

In my opinion he is only seeking attention by nay-saying everything I post...

I only “nay-say” the stuff that is false. Which is pretty much everything you post.

Trying to pass off Frazier saying that they stayed where they were for a few minutes as “proof” that he said they “stared at each other for the longest time” isn’t just spin, it’s a blatant lie.

And you have never provided quotes or citations for Frazier or Lovelady “placing Stanton in the Prayer Man position” because that’s a blatant lie too.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 13, 2019, 10:58:49 PM
What self centered, egotistical, narcissistic arrogance.

 Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 13, 2019, 11:03:27 PM
.....
It's all about Brian all the time, right Brian?

I only “nay-say” the stuff that is false. Which is pretty much everything you post.

Trying to pass off Frazier saying that they stayed where they were for a few minutes as “proof” that he said they “stared at each other for the longest time” isn’t just spin, it’s a blatant lie.

And you have never provided quotes or citations for Frazier or Lovelady “placing Stanton in the Prayer Man position” because that’s a blatant lie too.


This is dumb naysay trolling...It's a waste of time and its offerer will never honestly admit facts or evidence...

When you have a simple-minded, dishonest methodology of just naysaying everything like Iacoletti eventually you are going to run in to the a** end of your own denials and I think we have reached that point with trolling Iacoletti...

Iacoletti will never directly address the short-length sweater photogrammetric forensics because he knows it is good...He's not here to admit the good evidence he pretends to call for...He's only here to troll around it...The sweater length on Calvery in Zapruder (Tall Woman) and on the steps is identical...He can't play dumb with it and deny it so he tries to get away with ignoring it...


(https://i.imgur.com/1axf005.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/WEMfzbn.jpg)

It is all about the photogrammetric foreskins .....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 01:12:47 AM
“Photogrammetric forensics” is Doyle-speak for “duh, looks the same to me!”.

Never mind the fact that it hasn’t actually been proven that this is Calvery in the first place.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 01:16:17 AM

The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 02:33:36 AM
It's Calvery on the steps because 25 to 30 seconds after the shots is the exact time it would have taken for Calvery to run to the steps after running from her spot in the spectators...She got there about 5 seconds or so earlier...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 02:47:11 AM
The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

Oh! ...and Albert/Ralph/Brian, to make it crystal clear, I am not picking on you. I push back against anyone who, from my existing body of knowledge and God given, ongoing research abilities, indicates to me is intentionally misleading or diverting the attention of readers. In your case, it seems obvious you are actively doing both. If you have a medical excuse, please accept my apology, and I will also add a disclaimer in posts critical of your "work".

Hey Michael, I expect you have the same disdain for inaccuracy as I do. ….
…...
Quote
...Unfortunately, there are major issues with author DiEugenio's version of Jim Garrison, his investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, and the indictmrnt and prosecution of Clay Shaw that have been presented to Jim DiEugenio and he has failed to address:....
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:18:39 AM
Oh! ...and Albert/Ralph/Brian, to make it crystal clear, I am not picking on you. I push back against anyone who, from my existing body of knowledge and God given, ongoing research abilities, indicates to me is intentionally misleading or diverting the attention of readers. In your case, it seems obvious you are actively doing both. If you have a medical excuse, please accept my apology, and I will also add a disclaimer in posts critical of your "work".

You were wrong on Janney Scully...

If you were really pushing back against what you thought to be deliberately wrong information you would do it directly via the material...

You forfeited credibility when you refused to answer my posted evidence showing why Janney was credible...And you ganged-up with Jim D who was equally silent where it counts - that is, directly, via the material...

Pile-on researchers show a weakness in their character and therefore a subconscious doubting of their own ability... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:26:27 AM
You were wrong on Janney Scully...

If you were really pushing back against what you thought to be deliberately wrong information you would do it directly via the material...

You forfeited credibility when you refused to answer my posted evidence showing why Janney was credible...And you ganged-up with Jim D who was equally silent where it counts - that is, directly, via the material...

Pile-on researchers show a weakness in their character and therefore a subconscious doubting of their own ability...

Maybe you were "out sick" that day, (10-06-2015, 06:27 AM) when I addressed your "concerns"?

(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyDoyleYates100615.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:30:17 AM
You wouldn't dare harass Lauren, Dawn, or Peter like you do me and they agree Janney was credible...

By the way, you posted a thread that was not the evidence I posted...

By the way, the topic is Frazier's video where he said he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes...Your unrelated posting problems are your problem not mine...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:39:26 AM
You wouldn't dare harass Lauren, Dawn, or Peter like you do me and they agree Janney was credible...

By the way, you posted a thread that was not the evidence I posted...

By the way, the topic is Frazier's video where he said he and Sarah stayed still for 3 minutes...Your unrelated posting problems are your problem not mine...

"You" posted, or your Dad posted? It is not "evidence". It is same as what you do here, incessantly opine....

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101818#post101818

Quote
Originally Posted by BrianDoyle  08-07-2015, 02:54 AM

There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility.

These are off the top of my head. If we go back to Janney we'll find more like Angleton's curiosity over Meyer's diary. Angleton was the safe-cracker like with Win Scott who was known to go after dangerous documents personally. Something was going on there and Janney personally witnessed his father faking lack of knowledge of Meyer's death as well as other incriminating timing.

Joe Shimon was practically open about it with his daughter Toni and CIA operatives Janney talked to admitted Mary Meyer was one of their jobs.

I see a similarity in modus operandi between Sirhan and Crump. CIA doesn't give a damn Crump got off. They got what they wanted.

Quote
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/07/peter-janney/the-autodaf-of-lisa-pease-and-jamesdieugenio-tomas-de-torquemada-and-the-spanish-inquisition-return-in-a-new-era-of-suppression-of-freedom-of-thought-and-adherence-to-a-rigid-dogma-namely-thei/
The Autodaf of Lisa Pease and James DiEugenio Tomas de Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition return in a new era of suppression of freedom of thought and adherence to a rigid dogma - namely their own prejudices!
By Peter Janney   July 6, 2012
…….
In addition, Ms. Pease can't even seem to fathom or consider how "Lt. William L. Mitchell," a man who told police he was jogging on the towpath when he passed Mary Meyer — allegedly just before the murder took place — told police that a "Negro male" matching Wiggins' description was following her in an effort to frame Ray Crump. "Mitchell" would then testify against Crump at the murder trial nine months later in July 1965 as part of the CIA's assassination operation. It doesn't seem to matter to Pease that "Mitchell" has never been able to be located since the trial, or that his known address during that time was documented as a "CIA safe house" by three separate former CIA employees. At the time of trial in July 1965, Mitchell told a reporter that he had since retired from the military and was now a mathematics instructor at Georgetown University — yet no record of his employment there could ever be located, nor was there ever any bona-fide military service record located for "Mitchell," either in the Pentagon where he was listed in the directory at the time of the murder, or in the main military data base in St. Louis. This was thoroughly researched by the Peabody Award-winning journalist Roger Charles, as discussed in my book, a fact that Pease fails to mention in one of her many deliberate omissions, which also included Damore's consultation with L. Fletcher Prouty (as documented by Damore's attorney James H. Smith) to finally understand who "Mitchell" was, before Damore confronted him. Of course, Lisa Pease is entitled to whatever flawed point of view she wants to embrace, but she's not entitled to her own set of facts.....

Revised edition of author Peter Janney's book, September, 2013:
…..
Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...

https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT378&lpg=PT378&dq=peter+janney+professor+%22rational+voice%22&source=bl&ots=9nd_cAHycZ&sig=ACfU3U3tHZiBSEeZmuXdmUXGDjKO_5zzhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN4ZiE1__kAhVDT98KHcojB70Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20janney%20professor%20%22rational%20voice%22&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
... Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace: Third Edition Peter Janney ... was Tom Scully, but he would identify himself on Amazon only as “Rational Voice. ... law professor, Scully identified himself as “a moderator at the Internet forum, ...
…….
This is not rocket science. Doyle and "MWT" Graves could grasp the point presented in this post but that would be contrary to the intent of their "participation".

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT411&lpg=PT411&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+"faux+truce"&source=bl&ots=9nd_lvKxcZ&sig=ACfU3U0132kndO3tkmrzE2a6G6TshIo1Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKr8eqwJjlAhVhmuAKHYGZDKsQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20"faux%20truce"&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1510708928/ref=acr_dp_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=two_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 03:49:19 AM

No...There were 3 before that that were more detailed...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 03:58:26 AM
No...There were 3 before that that were more detailed...

Knock yourself out, then.:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101753#post101753

Maybe start a new thread, perhaps on April 1st,  on your "deep state" analysis?

And, let me explain to readers why you are such an annoying and possibly even dangerous nuisance. Author Janney and
his "team" of all star "connected to the intel community" sleuths were unable to find "missing" Lt. William L Mitchell. To paint him
as even more sinister, (He could not be found, they could have accused him of dismembering and eating babies, with no pushback.) they asserted that Mitchell's residence was a "known CIA safehouse". Lt. Mitchell worked ten minutes away in 1965, at the Pentagon. The building he resided in, according to Dovey Roundtree, was called, "The Virginian." Back in August, 2012, when I was still searching for Mitchell, once I found that the NASA Administrator was also a resident of that building, I dismissed the "known CIA safehouse" embellishment as irrelevant. Three years later, you were still chewing on it like a dog on a bone. The CIA HQ is located in Maclean, VA. Does it follow that every house or city government department in Maclean is "spooked up"? ….
You and author Janney are incapacitated by the intensity level of your own suspicions. You've "snuffed out" your own common sense!

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Rosslyn_BriefingBook_May2012.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonHistory1950.jpg)

October 4, 1950 Ad.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonTheVirginian.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on October 14, 2019, 09:51:47 AM
Knock yourself out, then.:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101753#post101753

Maybe start a new thread, perhaps on April 1st,  on your "deep state" analysis?

And, let me explain to readers why you are such an annoying and possibly even dangerous nuisance. Author Janney and
his "team" of all star "connected to the intel community" sleuths were unable to find "missing" Lt. William L Mitchell. To paint him
as even more sinister, (He could not be found, they could have accused him of dismembering and eating babies, with no pushback.) they asserted that Mitchell's residence was a "known CIA safehouse". Lt. Mitchell worked ten minutes away in 1965, at the Pentagon. The building he resided in, according to Dovey Roundtree, was called, "The Virginian." Back in August, 2012, when I was still searching for Mitchell, once I found that the NASA Administrator was also a resident of that building, I dismissed the "known CIA safehouse" embellishment as irrelevant. Three years later, you were still chewing on it like a dog on a bone. The CIA HQ is located in Maclean, VA. Does it follow that every house or city government department in Maclean is "spooked up"? ….
You and author Janney are incapacitated by the intensity level of your own suspicions. You've "snuffed out" your own common sense!

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Rosslyn_BriefingBook_May2012.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonHistory1950.jpg)

October 4, 1950 Ad.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyMitchell1500ArlingtonTheVirginian.jpg)

And I'm afraid the late HP Albarelli helped in egging Peter on as well, Tom.  Amazing how many authors used Hank as a PRIMARY source.  But you knew that.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
The proper word for it is probably Photographic Analysis since what we are talking about is simply identifying the clothing and movement of the persons involved...

No, the proper words are making wild-ass guesses and claiming that you’ve proven something.

Quote
Professional analysis will confirm the green plaid skirt and short length sweater is the same on both persons in the photography making her Gloria Calvery...And next to her in all white is Carol Reed...

There’s no “green plaid skirt” in the black and white Darnell film. You have no evidence what Calvery was wearing that day. Or Carol Reed. This is all make believe.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 14, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
It's Calvery on the steps because 25 to 30 seconds after the shots is the exact time it would have taken for Calvery to run to the steps after running from her spot in the spectators...She got there about 5 seconds or so earlier...

That’s another thing you just made up. How would you know the exact time it would take for Calvery to run somewhere? You haven’t even successfully demonstrated where she was standing.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 04:15:58 PM

If Scully wants to discuss Janney he should do it in a separate thread...

The 3 detailed posts I made to him and Jim D showing the evidence of Janney's credibility still haven't been answered...Anyone can see from Tom's writing that he's full of hot air...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 14, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by (Al)bert Doyle  08-07-2015, 02:54 AM

There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility. These are off the top of my head....

If Scully wants to discuss Janney he should do it in a separate thread...

The 3 detailed posts I made to him and Jim D showing the evidence of Janney's credibility still haven't been answered...Anyone can see from Tom's writing that he's full of hot air...

(http://jfkforum.com/images/RalphYatesWorshippingJanneyCRP.jpg)
Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT411&lpg=PT411&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+"faux+truce"&source=bl&ots=9nd_lvKxcZ&sig=ACfU3U0132kndO3tkmrzE2a6G6TshIo1Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKr8eqwJjlAhVhmuAKHYGZDKsQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20"faux%20truce"&f=false)
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
By the end of the deposition, we had reached a kind of “faux truce” where I admitted that it was highly unlikely that Mr. Mitchell had been the actual assassin in ...

How about a 'faux truce"? Or are you in, "take no prisoners," mode?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 14, 2019, 04:58:54 PM
Goban Saor wrote:

Quote
Looking forward to that. I suppose it’s too much to hope for that Prayer Man will be mentioned. PM wasn’t mentioned in the 2012 edition of Destiny Betrayed, but that was published before the groundbreaking PM thread at the Education Forum appeared in 2013.

That's because Jim D, although he sells what he knows not to be true to the public, knows that Prayer Man as Oswald is silly BS...Jim admitted it was BS and that Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton when he wrote on the Education Forum that "to be honest when I first saw the Prayer Man image I thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald"...That was the last time Jim said that in public because he realized he had come in on my side and since Jim was being given the advantage by dirty moderators who were banning the opposition he stayed quiet and went along with Kamp's mob because Jim D is a dirty political operator who, when his evidence fails, relies on dirty censorship and brute exclusion to avoid admitting he was wrong...So instead of admitting I was right and apologizing for getting me banned on Deep Politics Jim did the opposite and praised the Education Forum moderator for banning me and making a rule excluding my work (which is a direct violation of the research ethics Jim espouses in his work)...When that rule, that was a pure violation of all free speech objective research standards and a thinly veiled vehicle for personal grudge by an incompetent moderator, was implimented Jim posted that it was a good move and he agreed...He did that because it effectively removed one of the best people at showing where Jim was wrong and that's how dirty Jim operates...The real bottom line of internet Kennedy research is a clique of friends who vie for popularity and is not the objective research-based playing field they lie and say is the real bottom line... It's a popularity club of DiEugenio sycophants who don't defend their fellow researchers when they are censored by a rogue moderator for posting the correct evidence...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 15, 2019, 05:51:26 PM

 Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 15, 2019, 08:42:17 PM
Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

Posted @ 11:51:26(am)...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 15, 2019, 08:44:04 PM
Bettina Krotsch

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #80 on: Today at 02:51:50 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

 :D Yeah right.

So if you can't see my posts, then how and why are you responding to them? LarryTrotterImage busy being your cheerleader and your  incognito 'spy' once again?

Is it a clear case of 'If I put my head in the sand then no one can see me"?? You bet it is, "I can't see her so she must not be able to see me" I had a stupid coon-hound once that would hide behind trees in the woods and would not hunt, I took his dumb arse out and shot him the next day.

Posted @ 13:31:23(pm)...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 16, 2019, 07:20:27 PM

There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 16, 2019, 07:54:43 PM
There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...

How does "staying still" equate to "staring at each other"?  Not that Frazier actually said they both stayed still for 3 minutes.  You made that up too.  He just said "the lady I was standing by, we just stayed right there on the steps".

You've been claiming for months, if not years, that Frazier said they "stared at each other for the longest time" and since you could never find a video of him ever saying that, you're trying to substitute a statement that is nothing like that and claiming that they are equivalent.  That's completely absurd and dishonest -- even by your "560 fabrications" standards.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 16, 2019, 07:58:40 PM

John Iacoletti

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #90 on: Today at 07:54:43 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 16, 2019, 08:19:18 PM
Nobody cares what you're ignoring, Doyle.  You can't run from your lies.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Matthew Finch on October 17, 2019, 12:01:42 PM
There's no doubt the 3 minute staying still proves the "staring at each other for the longest time" and is proof...

There absolutely is a lot of doubt. Standing still /= staring at someone.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 17, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
I can't believe that even Doyle is trying to make that argument with a straight face.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 17, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
There absolutely is a lot of doubt. Standing still /= staring at someone.

Except for the fact that you can see them staring at each other in Darnell...

What the Prayer Man deniers are saying is we can see Stanton turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell, and have statements that described Stanton turning towards Frazier in order to communicate what Calvery said, and that somehow equates to doubt...

There is no doubt that standing still for 3 minutes does not conflict with "Staring at each other in shock for the longest time"...And that nothing I've shown conflicts with that...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 17, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Except for the fact that you can see them staring at each other in Darnell...

No you can't.  They are faceless.

Quote
What the Prayer Man deniers are saying is we can see Stanton turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell,

"Towards Frazier".  LOL.

Quote
and have statements that described Stanton turning towards Frazier in order to communicate what Calvery said, and that somehow equates to doubt...

No you don't.  Cite anyone stating that Stanton turned towards Frazier.

Quote
There is no doubt that standing still for 3 minutes does not conflict with "Staring at each other in shock for the longest time"...And that nothing I've shown conflicts with that...

They remain two completely different things.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 19, 2019, 04:54:29 AM

What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 19, 2019, 06:42:55 AM
What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...

You're threatening me? Be sure to include in your civil complaint that a mentally troubled individual has assumed your assumed identity of "Ralph Yates" and the person you are now subjecting to your threats of "taking legal action against," has reasonable cause to believe it is you who has been harrassing him for the past seven years.

Quote
Projection | psychology | Britannica.com
https://www.britannica.com/science/projection-psychology
Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10301-Mary-s-Mosaic-Entering-Peter-Janney-s-World-of-Fantasy&p=101740#post101740
Tom Scully 08-06-2015, 09:45 PM#220   
......
... Will Any Apologies Follow After Mr. Doyle's Long Awaited, Reluctant Admission?

Quote
Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, ...
https://books.google.com (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT378&lpg=PT378&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+rational+voice+law+professor+scully&source=bl&ots=9nd-gxLudW&sig=ACfU3U0Aq7JYiOr2p_CACffuAqu4CqEkbQ&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhuOKO1KflAhVOU98KHebmBvcQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20rational%20voice%20law%20professor%20scully&f=false) › books
Peter Janney - 2016 - ‎History
... himself on Amazon only as “Rational Voice.” Discussing his critical post of Mary's Mosaic in an email to a University of Georgia law professor, Scully identified ...
......
In 2012, Douglas Horne accuses me of working, "for the agency."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RWKKPDXQXFKPD/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
In second page of comments:
Quote
Ralph Yates 5 years agoReport abuse
Fess up Rational Voice. Janney's got the right man. Is it likely an author could openly accuse an emeritus college professor from the University of California of murdering Mary Pinchot Meyer in writing in a book and not have any reaction what so ever? Look at what we are talking about here. A professor of high stature being openly accused of being a CIA agent who murdered Kennedy's mistress in order to cover-up CIA's murder of president Kennedy. Is it likely such a person would react with zero response in that situation if they were falsely accused? This is a serious scandal and perfect opportunity for the media to destroy a nutty conspiracy theorist on the 50th anniversary. Why haven't they?

He's got the right man.

Douglas 7 years ago
... Are you a third party surrogate (or a direct employee) working for the USG whose mission here is to attempt to discredit the confession of a hit-man?......
.......
...........
And in reaction to the same research results....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RHETJR89AG4KJ/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
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H.P. Albarelli Jr.5 years ago In reply toan earlier postReport abuse
It's truly sad that Mr. Scully has "suffered" at the hands of several people. I urge everyone who feels sorry for him to send him flowers.
Leave a reply
Ralph Yates5 years ago (Edited)Report abuse
Some of Janney's evidence is loosely rendered and his affiliation with Ralph Cinque is bizarre to say the least. At minimum it shows extremely bad judgment. However there's some key clues that Janney is keen on like the Rambler having no record of it as if it was a plausibly deniable set-up designed to get a Military Police profile witness in place. I have to temper my Fetzer bs detector because Janney is on the verge of triggering it in several places. However he has a sharp instinct for clues and sees right through many obvious smoking guns like with the diary and Rambler. Janney was there with his hand on the wire when he looked at his father's expression when Mary was killed. Those are things that can't be appreciated by people who didn't experience them. He has a strong case in my opinion because there's no way Crump would have come back 100% clean on the fiber and blood evidence after going through the scene at the canal path.

Janney gains credibility when you consider Crump was confined to the tow path area after the shooting. Therefore it isn't likely the gun would be able to disappear so easily. Even with DiEugenio's criticism of Janney's timing estimates it does look like Crump was captured and in custody when Sylvis saw the man stick his face out from the trees. Something's wrong here because Crump would not be able to hide a gun so easily from his friends and family. The little things are what count here and if Crump had attended a female prior to the incident it would be unlikely he would have attacked Mary Meyer for sexual reasons. There's every reason to suspect a classic plausibly deniable black op here.

There's a couple of things that give Janney credibility, but what Janney calls the master key clinches it. There's no way Wistar could have called Meyer and Bradlee at 2pm if Mary's identity hadn't been determined until 6pm. And don't forget Janney caught his father faking lack of knowledge until the 8pm call from the police informing them of Mary Meyer's murder. Plus there are numerous CIA insiders casually admitting Mary Meyer was one of their jobs off the record.

It's the little things that add up and Mitchell's transfer to England was a way of getting a potential liability near to the wicked domain of MI-6 where he could be taken care of if needed. Mitchell's transformation to a hippy was just a way of diminishing him and his CIA status. Don't forget Mitchell lied about his sponsorship for that trip. Follow the money. The company paid for that relocation. There's no way any innocent emeritus college professor would allow someone to openly accuse him of being the CIA assassin who murdered Mary Meyer in a book without any response. Face it Scully, Janney's got his man.

Did you anticipate your threat would intimidate me sufficiently to beg you or offer you a monetary settlement to dissuade you?
...and, you would have to file a pleading under oath and later, testify under oath. You would have to establish to the court that you are both who you assert you are, and that you are indeed, an injured party! Good luck!

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R8NNVIZE9ITM/ref=cm_cr_othr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
   Douglas
5.0 out of 5 stars A Masterpiece of Biography and a Mesmerizing Detective Story
April 1, 2012
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
Written by Douglas P. Horne, author of "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board".....

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(Al)bert Doyle   09-12-2012

If Mitchell has been located then he should be agitated to find his account of what Janney accuses him of.

Funny, JFK researchers usually aren't shy about this kind of thing.

Jim DiEugenio  09-16-2013
....Albert, and then Horne, really dug this angle. Even though, by reading what Lisa and I wrote about the book, it was clear that neither writer could be trusted since they were so agenda driven. Horne wrote an embarrassing valentine to the book on Amazon and he got it up first. That critique shows us much about his analytical skills as a critic. He bought the whole mess of a book--including Mitchell.

But then, as I warned, that was not actually accurate. There does appear to be a William Mitchell who moved to California after going to Oxford. Therefore, if Janney and Damore could not find the man, it appears they did not look very hard. And that is not good research or writing. Another problem is that Damore and Janney violated another cardinal rule: They trusted their CIA sources all too willingly. Niether Horne nor (Al)bert can find it in their critical canon to mention any of this.

So now, Horne is stung. He looks kind of silly. So what does he say, and (Al)bert now echoes: Well why is this Mitchell guy not up in arms? This transferral is supposed to conceal the fact that Horne got duped in the first place. In other words, it doesn't matter if Mitchell disappeared or if he did not: Horne wants it both ways in order to disguise his gullibility.

The problem is this, and anyone who has done these kinds of searches should be familiar with it--as (Al)bert clearly is not. That name is a very common one. Its not like, say, my name. William Mitchell is almost as generic as Joe Smith. Therefore, although it does appear to be him, you cannot be positive. This is a responsible approach to an issue that Janney polarized without doing due diligence.....
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(Al)bert Doyle  09-17-2012

...That's the trouble with a room full of mirrors is that it is hard to create just one straight image guided by straight logic. Too many words vs a simple solution Mr D. Simply knock on this Mr Mitchell's door and ask him. Otherwise Tom Scully is just an overly informational bringer of wrong information.....
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Jim DiEugenio  09-21-2012

...But A1bert, it was Damore and Janney who made the claim that Mitchell disappeared into the ozone, and that he also lived at a CIA safehouse. They said they could not track him down after his appearance at the trial.

But what this shows is that either they were too trusting of their CIA sources, and/or they did not do very much work trying to track him down.

Let us put it this way: Janney comes from a well off family which has ties to the Rockefellers. Now, if with all those resources, he could not find out that there appears to be a guy who does fit the Mitchell profile, then the obvious question is: Why could Scully do that just using Google, yet Janney and Damore could not do that in 25 years with much more time and money?

I personally will not look the other way on this point. ...
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https://www.amazon.com/review/RMUB7ELJ520CB/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&asin=1616087080&cdForum=Fx3OGYYPX89DVPA&cdMsgID=Mx2BPI47HL288W5&cdMsgNo=3&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx2OREUEHNUHPDT&store=books#Mx2BPI47HL288W5 (click on 7 comments)
Last edited by the author on Aug 16, 2014 2:45:27 PM PDT Ralph Yates says:
Don't listen to Scully. This review section is riddled with places where Scully was asked to live up to the real evidence and never did. He disappears when you attempt to hold him to the real evidence.

Anyone who doesn't see the serious evidence Janney keenly detects is either cognitively impaired or part of the cover-up.

I have posted several times that Leary was documented reacting to Mary Meyer's death when it happened and initiating a documented attempt to investigate what happened to her. There are many more cases such as this that Scully, DiEugenio, and Pease ignore. You can read the reviews to see how Scully ran off each and every time we got to the evidence. I've already posted it several times. You never once made any attempt to answer it. Your attempt to take authority in this thread is laughable considering the level of ignorance you show. Von Pein would be proud of your input since it is almost identical to his own. Some people just don't know evidence of CIA murder when they see it. Fool.

There is an unfortunate situation in the Kennedy assassination community where egotistical pedants are so desperate to push their self-created authority and expertise that they take the result of CIA persecution and use it against the victim like Scully does with Damore. These people don't hesitate and don't consider what a horrific moral violation it is to wage against some of the worst victims and use the damage they suffered against them in order to discredit them so their egotistical doubt with prevail. Meanwhile completely blind Mr Scully with his widely prominent and boldly displayed rump doesn't have any curiosity why an emeritus professor would quietly tolerate public accusations written in a book that he was the CIA assassin of Mary Meyer with not a word of protest or any word in the media about this serious accusation. Mr Scully practices a very loose standard of analysis. A little too loose to be take seriously against what better minds can see Janney shows. Mr Scully is a cartoon character who has blundered into the artwork asking where the art is. A fool.
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Ralph Yates 5 years ago (Edited)Report abuse
You're not answering the points Mr Scully. Frankly I don't think you're quite competent as far as fathoming evidence of CIA intrigue from your input. Talk about getting lost in the nit-picking. Each and every time I tried to show you where you ignored credible evidence of CIA conspiracy you ignored my evidence and once again returned to your specious references. You did it again here. Frank Pace is completely irrelevant. Please to not dump a huge family tree information overload about Pace on us......
Who is "us"? The three of youse?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 20, 2019, 09:26:35 PM

DiEugenio is up to his old tricks again...He's saying Truly made up the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...Jim is misleading the research community and public with that claim and is using unfair banning and censorship to avoid accounting for it...

Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Jim D is either incredibly dumb or working for the other side...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 03:49:20 PM

Because I am being censored I cannot reply to Steve Thomas that the "boss" Harry Holmes was referring to who cleared Oswald as an employee at the front door wasn't Truly...The person who was stopped at the front door was probably the T-shirt Oswald who was just seen by Mrs Reid...The reason Harvey has such a vague recounting of that lobby stop is probably because he was never there...Harvey cut down from his encounter with Truly & Baker to the rear exit and left via Houston street and was seen by Frazier...Lee went through the offices, down the front stairs to the utility closet where he was seen by Campbell, and he was the one who was stopped...He was then cleared by Shelley not Truly and was walked to the rear exit by Shelley to guide him out of the Depository...Frazier was clear in his interview with Gary Mack that Oswald never left by the front door...The Warren Commission muddied up this witnessing and never covered it in detail because it exposed an Intel spook (Shelley) guiding another operative to safety and exposed the conspiracy...That's why there is zero detail from the people involved or the cop at the door and no Commission interview with them...

This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow... 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 21, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Cool fabrication, bro.  Too bad there's no evidence for any of it.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 21, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow...

The wisest thing the EF ever did was banning you and your made-up BS.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 09:19:28 PM
Bart Kamp wrote:

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Meanwhile a certain forum member who we all refer to as "that nut case" has been seriously foaming at his mouth again with the usual Trumpesque ramblings against you and the whole second floor clstrfck of which not one thing sticks due to the usual lack of any evidence. It has been irking him quite a lot that he has not been having his seat at this table for more than two years already. Doyle's pain of missing out on the action is tearing him apart from the inside so it seems.

It appears that on the EF the rules apply to everybody except when the violations are against me...

Kamp is obviously afraid I might come over there and smoke him...The fix is on on the EF because one of Kamp's gang members is in charge and bans anyone who out-argues him.

If I were allowed to post over there I would show where DiEugenio and Kamp are wrong, which is the real reason why I am banned...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 21, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
It is official now...The bullies have taken over the Prayer Man issue on the EF and no alternate explanations are allowed except Jim DiEugenio's backing of Greg Parker...

This was made possible by James Gordon's moderation...

DiEugenio is now an open Kamp gang member and accepts Kamp's rules-violating vulgar attacks on me...Kamp is allowed to break the EF rules openly as long as it is against me and is used to shut down my correct evidence...

The organized Kamp-led cowards are sort of referring to me as a Fetzer-like nut but one thing they won't do is give an honest answer to my evidence...This is a good example of how dangerous Parker's nutty Prayer Man theory is once advocated by DiEugenio who uses dirty methods to ignore those who can disprove him...

DiEugenio wrote:

Quote
Truly got together with the FBI and started this whole second floor lunch encounter that Baker had already denied.

That's a lie...Baker never denied the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...He simply omitted it and changed the floor location...Most likely because the fix was on by that time and he didn't want to exonerate Oswald by placing him in the place he was during the shots...It is also possible that the T-shirt Oswald had exited via Armstrong's passenger elevator escape hatch ruse and got off at the 3rd floor...That Oswald walked across the 3rd floor and met Truly & Baker on the 3rd floor staircase landing and Baker chose that Oswald under orders...Jim D is violating research standards by saying Baker denied the 2nd floor encounter...DiEugenio is a real dirty bastard...This is how he operates...He gets praise from ego-based researchers on his Oliver Stone production and parlays it in to now doubling down on the Prayer Man crap...And make no mistake this is 100% originating from that BS Prayer Man theory because the Prayer Man nuts know they need to get Oswald out of the 2nd floor lunch room because it disproves the Prayer Man theory...That's the only reason they are entering this nutty BS and are so desperate to prove it didn't happen...Jim should be ashamed of himself because he has lowered himself to the trollish level of Bart Kamp and other nutty internet comments section types like Alex Jones etc...And the members of the EF show themselves to be prone to mob-like research and lacking in integrity if they say nothing...

If we put a voice stress analysis on Baker in his CBS interview we would see he is telling the truth...Baker didn't mention the 2nd floor encounter in his affidavit because they didn't know what to do with it at that point so Baker buried it with his 3rd or 4th floor claim...Gilbride showed that Baker told Marvin Johnson that the man in the police station was the man he saw at the Depository...

Shame on DiEugenio because he joins Kamp in his internet troll-level denial of Carolyn Arnold...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 22, 2019, 04:06:25 PM
"voice stress analysis".  LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 22, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
What Scully is doing is a form of stalking and cyber harassment...

I might take legal action against him...

You're threatening me? Be sure to include in your civil complaint that a mentally troubled individual has assumed your assumed identity of "Ralph Yates" and the person you are now subjecting to your threats of "taking legal action against," has reasonable cause to believe it is you who has been harrassing him for the past seven years.
.......

DiEugenio is up to his old tricks again...He's saying Truly made up the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...Jim is misleading the research community and public with that claim and is using unfair banning and censorship to avoid accounting for it...

Truly made sure he caught up to Baker because he was in on the plan and needed to guide Baker in the Depository...Truly got Baker to the elevators where he could shunt Baker up to the set-up zone on the 6th floor and get Baker past Oswald who was in the 2nd floor during the shots...However his plan was foiled by the elevators being stuck upstairs...

Truly then tried to lead Baker past the 2nd floor lunch room but he hadn't planned on Oswald standing in the vestibule door window looking out at the staircase landing to see what the commotion was all about with the shouting for the elevators...Truly tried to ignore Oswald but when Baker turned the corner Oswald flinched back away from the window and that immediately triggered Baker's cop instincts...Baker then pursued Oswald in to the 2nd floor lunch room for a very real encounter...Baker had spoiled the whole set-up with his witnessing and helped establish that Oswald was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Jim D is either incredibly dumb or working for the other side...

Sane isn't a "side". Insanity is often expressed by acting out irrationally.

Because I am being censored I cannot reply to Steve Thomas that the "boss" Harry Holmes was referring to who cleared Oswald as an employee at the front door wasn't Truly...The person who was stopped at the front door was probably the T-shirt Oswald who was just seen by Mrs Reid...The reason Harvey has such a vague recounting of that lobby stop is probably because he was never there...Harvey cut down from his encounter with Truly & Baker to the rear exit and left via Houston street and was seen by Frazier...Lee went through the offices, down the front stairs to the utility closet where he was seen by Campbell, and he was the one who was stopped...He was then cleared by Shelley not Truly and was walked to the rear exit by Shelley to guide him out of the Depository...Frazier was clear in his interview with Gary Mack that Oswald never left by the front door...The Warren Commission muddied up this witnessing and never covered it in detail because it exposed an Intel spook (Shelley) guiding another operative to safety and exposed the conspiracy...That's why there is zero detail from the people involved or the cop at the door and no Commission interview with them...

This is very simple to figure out but it is the last thing the Prayer Man dominators on the Education Forum will allow...

The wisest thing the EF ever did was banning you and your made-up BS.
Bart Kamp wrote:

It appears that on the EF the rules apply to everybody except when the violations are against me...

Kamp is obviously afraid I might come over there and smoke him...The fix is on on the EF because one of Kamp's gang members is in charge and bans anyone who out-argues him.

If I were allowed to post over there I would show where DiEugenio and Kamp are wrong, which is the real reason why I am banned...

You're "over here," threatening and disturbed.... but is anyone here quaking in their boots?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 23, 2019, 07:57:09 PM

Bart Kamp wrote:

Quote
Listen nut case

1/ you have no evidence,let alone any correct evidence. Get that in your thick skull.

2/ I am not afraid of you at any place you bitch, moan and spew your typed up lying excrement. There is however simply no point to engage with you on a normal level any more. You have lied just too many times. The members at where you reside have pointed out numerous times your lies and utter BS, you were rightly kicked out at EF and DPF, do not ever forget that you filthy denier. The current padded cell you are now in allows you to tell your tall unproven and above all made up tales and even from that place you have been dropped more than half a dozen times this year alone already. If you think that is normal then I suggest you get your head checked one more time.

3/ you smoking me? with what? more lies? You could not even take care of a wet dream you loser.

4/ you are a cancer on the JFK research community.

It is correct to say Bart is a coward who only posts at places where the opposition is banned...He is afraid to confront me on a fair playing field where he would be held accountable for his Prayer Man crap and not be able to wiggle out of it with unfair banning...He and DiEugenio have teamed-up and hijacked the Education Forum with a moderator on the inside so they have successfully managed to avoid having to answer the facts that prove Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...Jim D is particularly dishonest because he admitted Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton on the EF when he said he always thought Prayer Man was too stocky to be Oswald...Greg Parker also did everything but directly admit Prayer Man was Stanton on my Facebook Prayer Woman page...

Over the past year the members of the EF have had guilty consciences so they stopped responding to Stancak and Kamp's Prayer Man posts...My being unfairly banned from the DPF and EF boards was directly due to the moderators there seeking favor from the Prayer Man people because of their inability to understand my Prayer Man evidence...

Bart is an uncredible punk who name-calls you a liar but then runs in public from actually walking that back and discussing those so called "lies" via the evidence...All he is doing above is self-excusing and running in front of evidence he's afraid to directly discuss...

Kamp is the liar and even though he said he would reconsider Karen Westbrook's location of Gloria Calvery if new evidence came out, when Moricet got the Depository photos and confirmation from Holt's brother, and Graves proved the 3 Women were Simmons, Holt, and Jacob, Kamp stayed within the cowardly safety of his banning-protected websites and refused to admit the obvious...This is all perfectly OK with Jim D who pretends all this isn't happening and that I was fairly banned for "too much vitriol"...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 23, 2019, 09:00:15 PM
Kamp is exactly right.  All of your so-called "evidence" is the product of lies and fabrications.  560 of them at last count.

The fabrications, fallacies, and falsehoods of Brian Doyle (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1749.0.html)

And you just compound your lies with additional lies.  Holt's brother looked at Darnell, and Westbrook looked at Zapruder.  The two have nothing to do with each other, or with Calvery.  And Calvery's location has nothing to do with Stanton or with prayer-person.  Your entire argument is based on lying about what witnesses said.  You're a charlatan peddling snake oil, and you are the laughing stock of the entire JFK assassination community.  The only question is, how have you managed to keep from getting permanently banned here as well?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on October 24, 2019, 04:15:03 PM
.... Your entire argument is based on lying about what witnesses said.  You're a charlatan peddling snake oil, and you are the laughing stock of the entire JFK assassination community.  The only question is, how have you managed to keep from getting permanently banned here as well?

During the night, I musta fell and hit my head....

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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25901-two-oswalds-in-the-texas-theater/page/34/?tab=comments#comment-407509
Quote
On 10/5/2019 at 3:35 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
Brian Doyle found this image of the theater and ticket booth that appears to be from Nov. 22, 1963 or very close to that date.

US-JFK-195182_020.jpg
   
Ron Bulman  Posted October 6, 2019

Very excellent.  Many thanks to Brian.  This proves it was not the rounded version in your earlier picture.  And I think me wrong.  The ticket booth does not appear detached. Though that is hard to reconcile with the earlier picture you posted where you can see through it I commented on.

Either way how did Julia Postal observe anyone going up the stairs to the balcony Inside from the ticket booth Outside? 

.........
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 04:21:09 PM

John Iacoletti

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2019, 09:00:15 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 04:25:43 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xs81m8tqzizozd1/NotNuts.gif)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 04:31:58 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if Prayer Man's glowing hand is the left hand rather than the right hand because the left hand would be closer to the sun plane border?...

Sarah may have had her left hand on that part of her purse and it overlapped her right hand...


Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 24, 2019, 05:11:36 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if Prayer Man's glowing hand is the left hand rather than the right hand because the left hand would be closer to the sun plane border?...

Sarah may have had her left hand on that part of her purse and it overlapped her right hand...

It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 05:52:06 PM
It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.

Provably wrong Larry...You've gone the wrong way on this I hate to say...

It can't be a cup because if it were we would see the white of the porcelain register when Sarah's hand was in the darker shade as it is in other frames...If that were a cup when Sarah lowers her arm away from the sun plane and in to a darker area of the portal you would still be able to detect the contrast of the difference between the white porcelain and Sarah's skin...There would be a noticeable divide between those different colors...If you look closely you will see no such divide because the glowing object is simply Sarah's hand being illuminated by partial sunlight just back from the sun border...

Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 06:38:19 PM
Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...

Both statements are complete fabrications.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 24, 2019, 09:01:16 PM
Both statements are complete fabrications.

Ah, but he used the word 'behaviorally', which must be worth as many points as 'forensically'  Thumb1:
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 09:52:33 PM
Ah, but he used the word 'behaviorally', which must be worth as many points as 'forensically'  Thumb1:

Translation:   I cannot give any respectful, intelligent answer to your correct observations"...

In April 2014 Kamp wrote on his website:  " I can see now that Prayer Man is obviously manipulating something with both hands  "...

Kamp was correct...Sarah was looking in her purse with both hands...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2019, 10:13:21 PM
Translation:   I cannot give any respectful, intelligent answer to your correct observations"...

In April 2014 Kamp wrote on his website:  " I can see now that Prayer Man is obviously manipulating something with both hands  "...

Kamp was correct...Sarah was looking in her purse with both hands...

I thought she was staring at Frazier for the longest time.  You can't even keep your fabrications straight...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on October 24, 2019, 11:31:45 PM
It is a cup. A purse appears to be attached by strap to her left forearm. IMHO, FWIW.

Provably wrong Larry...You've gone the wrong way on this I hate to say...

It can't be a cup because if it were we would see the white of the porcelain register when Sarah's hand was in the darker shade as it is in other frames...If that were a cup when Sarah lowers her arm away from the sun plane and in to a darker area of the portal you would still be able to detect the contrast of the difference between the white porcelain and Sarah's skin...There would be a noticeable divide between those different colors...If you look closely you will see no such divide because the glowing object is simply Sarah's hand being illuminated by partial sunlight just back from the sun border...

Behaviorally, if you examine the clip with all Prayer Man images you will see Sarah manipulating her purse with both hands in order to look in to it...Her hands are moving as if she is opening and looking in to her purse...She couldn't be doing that while holding a large white cup...

Behaviorally, Sarah had left the 2nd floor lunch room and finished her eating by the time she was filmed in Wiegman...
 

So, we disagree! Don't you agree? It is my conclusion that a hand held cup/mug is glowing due to receiving reflected sunlight, instead of direct sunlight. And, said cup/mug contains a beverage, or possibly soup. However, simply a conclusion based on observation and image interpretation. No scientific indications involved. ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 24, 2019, 11:34:54 PM

No...The evidence disproves there being a cup in Sarah's hand...

If there was a white porcelain cup you would see the divide between the white of the cup and Sarah's skin when she was in shade but you don't see it because the glowing object is her hand...

I'm beginning to think the glowing hand is her left hand because it would be on the closer side of the sun plane...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 07:37:45 AM
Nope...You're wrong...

Check it out with a pro photo analyzer and it will check out...If it were a white cup you would see it contrast with the skin and you would see a divide line where the two met while the hand was further back in to the darker areas of the portal...

I know my stuff...It is quite foolish to doubt me on this...

You can't see any white cup in the Wiegman frame where Sarah has her hands in the lower position...



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2019, 02:46:55 PM
I know my stuff...It is quite foolish to doubt me on this...

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/roflmao.gif)

The fabrications, fallacies, and falsehoods of Brian Doyle (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1749.0.html)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 04:25:59 PM

I take it back...The glowing hand is Sarah's right hand... I looked at it and realized her right hand is holding her purse open so it is crossed across her body and holding the purse open and is stuck further towards the sun plane...I could get a woman to demonstrate and you would see why her right hand is the one that is poking further towards the sun plane and is therefore illuminated...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
I take it back...The glowing hand is Sarah's right hand... I looked at it and realized her right hand is holding her purse open so it is crossed across her body and holding the purse open and is stuck further towards the sun plane...I could get a woman to demonstrate and you would see why her right hand is the one that is poking further towards the sun plane and is therefore illuminated...

Who are you kidding?  What woman would want to get near you?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 25, 2019, 06:59:36 PM

Her right hand was holding the far side of her purse open and her left hand was closer to her chest holding the other side of her purse open in order to look in to it...

This brought her right hand across her body and out in to the sun plane and drew the left hand back and towards her chest...

This explains why Sarah's right hand was glowing and closer to the sun/shade border...



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on October 26, 2019, 05:39:23 PM
Her right hand was holding the far side of her purse open and her left hand was closer to her chest holding the other side of her purse open in order to look in to it...

This brought her right hand across her body and out in to the sun plane and drew the left hand back and towards her chest...

This explains why Sarah's right hand was glowing and closer to the sun/shade border...

Another 'remote viewing' gone wrong by Mssr. Doyle.  Better practice some more on your goats, sir.  Workin' at the Car Wash.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 03:47:50 PM

There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 28, 2019, 04:08:08 PM
There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

I have warm memories of your assuring us, via Ms Debra Conway, that Mr Frazier had categorically identified Ms Stanton as PrayerPerson
---------------only to be forced to admit following a conversation with Mr Frazier that he could make no such identification!   :D

PrayerPerson in Wiegman is not Ms Stanton, who was to Mr Frazier's left at the time. It's Mr Bill Shelley.

PrayerPerson in Darnell is not Ms Stanton. We've known that since at least your sourcing of a contemporaneous photo of her.

Another surge of warm memories! This is what your forensic photogrammetric codification skills had predicted she'd look like:

(https://i.imgur.com/yLAyVdO.jpg)

And this is what she actually looked like!

(https://i.imgur.com/Sg1AFIn.jpg)

Yet you still carried on flogging your wretched dead horse...

And then this turned up!

(https://i.imgur.com/NJYO3s9.jpg)

 :D

Who is PrayerPerson in Darnell? Well, six years on, no candidate better than Mr Oswald has turned up------------------which is just horrible for you, for Mr Oswald is the one person you (a CTer!) don't on any account want to have been out front!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 04:19:48 PM
There's no doubt Frazier confirms he stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery made her announcement...

That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...

LOL. Non-sequitur of the year.

Quote
It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...

No Doyle. “Standing still” is not the same thing as “staring at each other”. By the way, Frazier didn’t even say he stood still for 3 minutes. That’s yet another thing you just made up.

Quote
There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

You either have a lousy memory or you are a pathological liar. Or both. Transcribe Frazier’s actual words in the video and you’ll see why. But you never provide exact quotes for a reason.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 04:20:24 PM
Denny Zartman should ask why he agrees with me that Prayer Man is Stanton yet says nothing about the dirty group that ganged up with James Gordon and banned me on false grounds when my evidence was correct...

Those liars are trying to say I used too much vitriol but any honest look shows Kamp is guilty of much worse and they don't have any problem with it...

They are lying and using that as an excuse to not admit the correct evidence I proved against the 95% board majority who fell for Greg Parker's nutty Tom Sawyer evidence hacking...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 04:22:05 PM
Denny Zartman should ask why he agrees with me that Prayer Man is Stanton yet says nothing about the dirty group that ganged up with James Gordon and banned me on false grounds when my evidence was correct...

Probably because nobody but you thinks that’s the reason you were banned.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 06:18:46 PM
We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...

Davidson proved that Prayer Man has a female face at the exact time that the witnesses were saying Stanton was in that spot...

None of the Prayer Man people can show where Stanton is in the photography...

That is because she is Prayer Man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2019, 06:37:06 PM
We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

No, you just lied about what Frazier and Lovelady actually said. And who’s “we”?

Quote
We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...

You haven’t proven squat. You’ve merely claimed it.

Quote
Davidson proved that Prayer Man has a female face at the exact time that the witnesses were saying Stanton was in that spot...

No, what Davidson actually said was that he hasn’t proven anything.

Quote
None of the Prayer Man people can show where Stanton is in the photography...

Actually, they have identified somebody else who could be Stanton. So has Stancek.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:25:52 PM
That proves Prayer Man is Stanton...
:D

Sarah Stanton was 300-500 pounds with white hair according to her family in your interview. Does the figure appear to look 300-500 pounds with white hair?

It also proves Frazier said he and Sarah stared at each other for the longest time in shock because that 3 minutes of standing still is proof of it...
Where is your proof? Frazier never said that.  Frazier always gestures to his LEFT where he says Stanton was standing.  Stanton's statement to the FBI places her INSIDE after hearing 3 explosions.

There are dishonest people who accused me of making this up but there is Frazier saying it in the linked video in the original post...Those people did not come back and admit they were wrong...

Where is this video? Post it here.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:35:00 PM
We've proven that two witnesses, Frazier and Lovelady, placed Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of the motrorcade...

Who is "we've"? Frazier placed Stanton to his LEFT in all his interviews not his RIGHT. Stanton said she IMMEDIATELY went INSIDE after hearing three explosions. This is not Stanton.

We've proven Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips and obese forearm, as well as 5 foot 4 height...
Who's "we've"? Don't you mean you? Stanton's family said Sarah was 300-500 pounds with white hair. Prayer Man does not fit that description. 

That is because she is Prayer Man...

 :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 08:52:09 PM
The glowing light appears to be coming from Prayer man's right wrist that would indicate a man's watch.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 09:06:33 PM
:D

Sarah Stanton was 300-500 pounds with white hair according to her family in your interview. Does the figure appear to look 300-500 pounds with white hair?
Where is your proof? Frazier never said that.  Frazier always gestures to his LEFT where he says Stanton was standing.  Stanton's statement to the FBI places her INSIDE after hearing 3 explosions.

Where is this video? Post it here.

You don't realize your responses are proof my claim is correct...

If Sarah was that big then you should have no trouble pointing her out to Frazier's left in Darnell or Altgens...The reason you can't do that is because Prayer Man is Stanton...

The video is linked in the original post in this thread...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 09:59:04 PM

I can't believe the research community is letting Kamp put out another Prayer Man paper next year that he is currently working on when they know Prayer Man isn't Oswald...

Zartman said himself that he thought I was correct and Prayer Man was Stanton...

The way the research community works is Zartman stays quiet even though he publicly disagrees with Kamp and I remain banned...

That's not very credible...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 28, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
You don't realize your responses are proof my claim is correct...

If Sarah was that big then you should have no trouble pointing her out to Frazier's left in Darnell or Altgens...The reason you can't do that is because Prayer Man is Stanton...

The video is linked in the original post in this thread...



How is your claim correct when the figure is not that big and does not have white hair? This disproves your claim.

Where does Frazier always gesture to where he says Stanton was standing? To his left. The figure is to his right. 

You're going to tell us a much smaller person with black hair is still Stanton?   

 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 28, 2019, 11:05:42 PM


How is your claim correct when the figure is not that big and does not have white hair? This disproves your claim.

Nothing but nothing has permission to disprove a Doyle Claim, sir-------------a Doyle Claim has a reality all of its own that transcends mere facts!  :D

Quote
You're going to tell us a much smaller person with black hair is still Stanton?

Yes, that's the dead horse the poor demented man has gone on beating since he himself published the photo of Ms Stanton!

She looked just like he'd said she would!  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/64QA43P.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 28, 2019, 11:40:00 PM
Nothing but nothing has permission to disprove a Doyle Claim, sir-------------a Doyle Claim has a reality all of its own that transcends mere facts!  :D

Yes, that's the dead horse the poor demented man has gone on beating since he himself published the photo of Ms Stanton!

She looked just like he'd said she would!  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/64QA43P.jpg)

You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...The eyes are close together and the nose and mouth are the same small size...It would also grab the pudgy face surrounding those features too...

If you notice Ford is not pointing out Stanton to the left of Frazier...That's because he can't and she's not there...

Stanton is Prayer Man, as Ford's lack of any credible answers to the real evidence shows...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 12:20:39 AM
You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...

 :D

Let’s see one.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 02:08:55 AM
If you notice Ford is not pointing out Stanton to the left of Frazier...That's because he can't and she's not there...
Brian, you can't point out Stanton to the right of Frazier when Frazier says Stanton was to his left. Any figure to the right of Frazier is not Stanton.

Stanton is Prayer Man, as Ford's lack of any credible answers to the real evidence shows...
Brian, because you claim Stanton is the figure that makes it a fact? Basically this is what you are arguing.

Wait a minute here, you've avoided the pertinent questions to your claim by not answering them. Your Stanton claim is invalid unless you answer these questions.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 29, 2019, 09:57:12 AM
You are too unskilled to realize good facial recognition technology would probably match those two faces...The eyes are close together and the nose and mouth are the same small size...It would also grab the pudgy face surrounding those features too...

Thank you so much for this, Mr Doyle, I needed a good bellylaugh!  :D
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 29, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
Sarah Stanton was somewhere out on the front entrance landing in Weigman film BEFORE any shots are fired, correct?

So where does Alan and others think is the most probable place for a 300 lb, 5'4" woman to have been standing at the time of Wiegmans camera panning past at about just a couple seconds before the 1st shot is fired?

If Stanton were standing behind BWF and others and right beside Pauline Sanders, and did not move either right, nor left, then Stanton would have had Baker run right into her, and its doubtful Stanton would have failed to mention such meeting.

If Stanton had immediately opened the door and gone into the lobby just after 3rd shot is fired,its difficult  to understand how BWF could have glanced at Stanton which only occurs AFTER Gloria Cavalry has reached the front lower step and is talking to Joe Molina there.

So the only place really left is where prayer person appears to be, in that corner, out of the way of other people,thus not being an obstacle and also, able to sip the white coffee mug most likely that came from the 2nd floor lunchroom.

This about the only point i disagree with Mr.Doyle is  what the white object is. He apparently thinks it Stanton's hand in the sunlight, but thats curious since the hand changes position being raised to mouth level, and thats why imo,its probably a white cup.

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 03:29:20 PM
Thank you so much for this, Mr Doyle, I needed a good bellylaugh!  :D

Laughing while not being able to point-out Stanton to Frazier's left isn't very credible...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 03:46:29 PM
Laughing while not being able to point-out Stanton to Frazier's left isn't very credible...

What’s not credible is the guy with 560 falsehoods and fabrications.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 03:55:16 PM
It seems like there's a new power structure at the Education Forum where Bart Kamp and Jim DiEugenio are now running the forum with the assistance of the moderation...

Bart Kamp came in and spoke down to Micah Mileto saying that Von Pein's banning was morally justified because he had copied debates where he was clearly losing and re-posted them in a context that made it look like he was winning...

Well, what about Kamp himself and his banning anyone who posts the correct evidence for Prayer Man from his website?...

Kamp is being assisted by the EF moderation in sheer hypocrisy because by banning and censoring the correct evidence he is doing the exact same thing as Von Pein...

In fact, what Kamp is doing is worse because Kamp them returns to the EF and bullies people around and makes obnoxious snipes at them and threatens their membership with the moderator's full unprofessional approval...

Kamp was disproven by myself and even DiEugenio and Zartman admitted it...So while Kamp accuses Von Pein of violating his moral sensibilities for creating false wins through dirty tactics, Kamp himself is much more guilty of the same thing yet somehow he gets the support of the EF moderation...

So while the EF moderation is helping Kamp with this gross hypocrisy and unprofessionally attacking Mileto for perhaps voicing this dilemma like a sound membership should, that moderation doesn't realize they are only proving Mileto's point by responding that way...

Competent moderation would not attack Mileto for asking for accountability from the EF moderation, it would cite Kamp for his hypocrisy...

Competent moderation would point-out to DiEugenio and Zartman that they both posted things that inferred they agreed Prayer Man was Stanton...Both those men stayed silent when Kamp attacked Von Pein...

Because of this new political power structure with its moderator enforcers the EF has lowered itself to a bully clique where apparently Bart Kamp now thinks he is running the show and the mods pretty much agree...

Unlike Kamp, Von Pein never got a good researcher banned for the crime of posting the correct evidence on Prayer Man that Kamp is currently rigging the system through banning and censorship to continue posting the wrong evidence over...

The cheapest, most immoral, most cowardly thing you can do is ban a person for posting the correct evidence and Kamp and the Education Forum are guilty of that...As Mileto suggests, they are in no position to judge Von Pein or unprofessionally tell people to go elsewhere for the crime of pointing it out...

What kind of example is the EF membership showing to the public by leaving Mileto alone with no support while the wolves circle their next victim?...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 04:15:30 PM
“Correct evidence”. LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
It seems like there's a new power structure at the Education Forum where Bart Kamp and Jim DiEugenio are now running the forum with the assistance of the moderation...

Bart Kamp came in and spoke down to Micah Mileto saying that Von Pein's banning was morally justified because he had copied debates where he was clearly losing and re-posted them in a context that made it look like he was winning...

Well, what about Kamp himself and his banning anyone who posts the correct evidence for Prayer Man from his website?...

Kamp is being assisted by the EF moderation in sheer hypocrisy because by banning and censoring the correct evidence he is doing the exact same thing as Von Pein...

In fact, what Kamp is doing is worse because Kamp them returns to the EF and bullies people around and makes obnoxious snipes at them and threatens their membership with the moderator's full unprofessional approval...

Kamp was disproven by myself and even DiEugenio and Zartman admitted it...So while Kamp accuses Von Pein of violating his moral sensibilities for creating false wins through dirty tactics, Kamp himself is much more guilty of the same thing yet somehow he gets the support of the EF moderation...

So while the EF moderation is helping Kamp with this gross hypocrisy and unprofessionally attacking Mileto for perhaps voicing this dilemma like a sound membership should, that moderation doesn't realize they are only proving Mileto's point by responding that way...

Competent moderation would not attack Mileto for asking for accountability from the EF moderation, it would cite Kamp for his hypocrisy...

Competent moderation would point-out to DiEugenio and Zartman that they both posted things that inferred they agreed Prayer Man was Stanton...Both those men stayed silent when Kamp attacked Von Pein...

Because of this new political power structure with its moderator enforcers the EF has lowered itself to a bully clique where apparently Bart Kamp now thinks he is running the show and the mods pretty much agree...

Unlike Kamp, Von Pein never got a good researcher banned for the crime of posting the correct evidence on Prayer Man that Kamp is currently rigging the system through banning and censorship to continue posting the wrong evidence over...

The cheapest, most immoral, most cowardly thing you can do is ban a person for posting the correct evidence and Kamp and the Education Forum are guilty of that...As Mileto suggests, they are in no position to judge Von Pein or unprofessionally tell people to go elsewhere for the crime of pointing it out...

What kind of example is the EF membership showing to the public by leaving Mileto alone with no support while the wolves circle their next victim?...

Brian, are you ignoring these questions on purpose? You can't say you posted the correct evidence when these questions still remain. Please answer them.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 09:15:07 PM
Sarah Stanton was somewhere out on the front entrance landing in Weigman film BEFORE any shots are fired, correct?

So where does Alan and others think is the most probable place for a 300 lb, 5'4" woman to have been standing at the time of Wiegmans camera panning past at about just a couple seconds before the 1st shot is fired?

If Stanton were standing behind BWF and others and right beside Pauline Sanders, and did not move either right, nor left, then Stanton would have had Baker run right into her, and its doubtful Stanton would have failed to mention such meeting.

If Stanton had immediately opened the door and gone into the lobby just after 3rd shot is fired,its difficult  to understand how BWF could have glanced at Stanton which only occurs AFTER Gloria Cavalry has reached the front lower step and is talking to Joe Molina there.

So the only place really left is where prayer person appears to be, in that corner, out of the way of other people,thus not being an obstacle and also, able to sip the white coffee mug most likely that came from the 2nd floor lunchroom.

This about the only point i disagree with Mr.Doyle is  what the white object is. He apparently thinks it Stanton's hand in the sunlight, but thats curious since the hand changes position being raised to mouth level, and thats why imo,its probably a white cup.

The prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton for a number of reasons I've already pointed out. Stanton never mentioned Buell Frazier in her FBI statement and she stated she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went upstairs to the second floor to look out the window. If she was "staring in shock" with Frazier she would have said that. Her own statement already disqualifies her to be the figure. Funny how Doyle and you want to ignore what this woman says thinking you know more than she did. She went through the whole ordeal, you two didn't.  Her appearance also disqualifies her. The figure is not a 300+ pound person with white hair as her family recalled her being on that day. Buell Fraizer always says Stanton is to his left when the figure is to the right.  When you look at all this evidence it is obvious this figure is not Sarah Stanton. You guys are making the Stanton claim,  so since it's been established that the figure is not Sarah Stanton, you need to locate her somewhere else.   
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 29, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
Brian, are you ignoring these questions on purpose? You can't say you posted the correct evidence when these questions still remain. Please answer them.

1. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when Frazier says Stanton was standing to his left?

2. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure doesn't have white hair?

3. How can you claim Stanton is the figure when the figure is not near 300-500 pounds?
 

1)  I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...Kamp and the Prayer Man people are pretty dumb because they claimed Lovelady was about to say Oswald was behind them when he was cut off - only if you look at the photo evidence Prayer Man wasn't behind Lovelady, he was to Lovelady's right where he placed Stanton...The photography shows Frazier was behind Lovelady as he later confirmed...In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady said Sarah was against the west wall of the portal with him when the motorcade passed...The Hughes film shows Lovelady right where he said he was and Prayer Man is directly behind him...Frazier confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot when he said he was talking to Sarah when Gloria Calvery got to the steps...Couch/Darnell shows Calvery at the steps...Frazier is clearly staring at Prayer Man for the entire duration of Couch/Darnell...There is zero doubt that this is the exact same time that Frazier repeatedly described staring at Sarah in multiple interviews and statements...That makes Stanton Prayer Man beyond any reasonable doubt...

Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography - especially the clear photography of the Altgens image...You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly - yet we don't see Stanton there...But probably the firmest proof that Stanton is not to Frazier's left is the fact I asked you to show Stanton to Frazier's left in my last post and you responded by once again claiming Stanton was to Frazier's left but flagrantly avoided showing us so in the photography like I asked you...You can't do it...So you are the one failing to answer the questions here not me...

2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

3) I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform, and we have identified Sanders, that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee (Oswald had a break in color fabric from his shirt to his pants)...I'm sorry but ignoring my previous post and asking the same disproven questions again does not serve as any valid response to my previous post whose points you are obviously evading with your pretend demands...

Can you prove you are really "Rick Plant" and not a Kamp alias?

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 29, 2019, 10:56:10 PM
1)  I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...

Every single bit of this is made up BS.

Quote
Kamp and the Prayer Man people are pretty dumb because they claimed Lovelady was about to say Oswald was behind them when he was cut off - only if you look at the photo evidence Prayer Man wasn't behind Lovelady, he was to Lovelady's right

He was both to the right and behind.

Quote
In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady said Sarah was against the west wall of the portal with him when the motorcade passed...

No, he did not. You just made that up.

Quote
The Hughes film shows Lovelady right where he said he was and Prayer Man is directly behind him...

The Hughes film doesn’t show prayerperson.

Quote
Frazier confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot when he said he was talking to Sarah when Gloria Calvery got to the steps...

He didn’t say anything about where she was standing at that time.

Quote
Couch/Darnell shows Calvery at the steps...

Unproven.

Quote
Frazier is clearly staring at Prayer Man for the entire duration of Couch/Darnell...

He’s not clearly doing anything of the kind. His face isn’t even visible.

Quote
There is zero doubt that this is the exact same time that Frazier repeatedly described staring at Sarah in multiple interviews and statements...

He, in fact, hasn’t said this in even a single video. You made it up.

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Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...

That does nothing to prove that you are correct.

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You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography - especially the clear photography of the Altgens image...You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly

Bull. Half of the entryway is blocked by Secret Service agents in the foreground.

It’s actually true that Frazier said the lady who worked in the office was standing on his left. Everything you’ve claimed that he said is made-up BS.

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2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...

Or it could be that you’re full of crap.

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However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...

LOL. Another one for the fabrications list.

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Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

You haven’t proven squat. A much more “explainable cause” is that it’s not Stanton.

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3) I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...

No we do not know that. You made it up.

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We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...

Well at least you’re not still falsely claiming that he placed her “peeking” over Shelley’s shoulder like you used to.

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I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform,

Bull. We don’t know that. You made it up.

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and we have identified Sanders,

Who’s “we”?

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that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips... Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate this other than to claim it. You don’t even know how wide her hips were. Or how tall she was.

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And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate that it’s even a dress, much less a “uniform color”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 29, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
I've already repeatedly answered this and you repeatedly ignored the answer...Yes, Stanton was to Frazier's left and over by Pauline Sanders when she first came out to the steps...Only she moved to Frazier's right by the time of the Prayer Man shots...We know this is true because Lovelady said Stanton was in the Prayer Man position twice...He said it in his Commission testimony where he named those from his left to his right...He named Shelley to his left (as can be seen in Altgens), Stanton to his right, and he later clarified around the time of HSCA that he was about to say Frazier was behind him...
What about what Sarah Stanton said to the FBI in her testimony? Why you do completely ignore what she says in favor of other people? Sarah Stanton never testified to any of this. Why don't you ever believe what Sarah Stanton said? Sarah Stanton never testified to being in that location. She said she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went upstairs to the second floor looking out the window to see what was happening. Does that sound like she would be to the right?   

Why would Stanton be to the left of Frazier, hear the shots, move all the way over to the opposite side, then "stare at Frazier in shock"? This makes no sense. Fraizer and Stanton never stated this in testimony or interviews. Yeah, this really disqualifies Stanton as the prayer figure.   

Proof that Prayer Man is Stanton is the fact that even though you have been asked repeatedly to show Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography you can't do it...
Blurry pictures are not good for a positive identification. All the accumulated evidence proves Stanton is not the prayer figure. All the proof you claim has been disqualified based on appearance, Buell Fraizer's recollections, and Stanton's own FBI statement.   

You are claiming massive obese weights for Stanton...
I'm claiming a massive obese weight for Stanton? Sarah's family members said she was 300-500 pounds with white hair on that day in your interview. Did you forget what her family told you about her weight and hair color? You sounded flustered when they volunteered that information to you. That description disqualifies her as the prayer figure. Prayer figure is not obese and there is no white hair. 

Well if she's that heavy you should have no problem pointing her out to Frazier's left in the photography -
The question is why are you trying to claim an obese woman is a figure that is not obese? That automatically disqualifies your claim. Why do you continue repeating a false claim?

You guys are full of disingenuous questions but you come up a little short in the showing Stanton to Frazier's left in the photography department...
Doyle, you came up short by a country mile trying to claim Stanton is prayer man in the photography department. You're trying to downsize an obese woman into a smaller male figure. Doesn't work out too well for you. How is it disingenuous to ask serious questions when there is a major conflict with your claim?


That should be easy to do in Altgens because Altgens shows the area directly to Frazier's left very clearly - yet we don't see Stanton there...But probably the firmest proof that Stanton is not to Frazier's left is the fact I asked you to show Stanton to Frazier's left in my last post and you responded by once again claiming Stanton was to Frazier's left but flagrantly avoided showing us so in the photography like I asked you...You can't do it...So you are the one failing to answer the questions here not me...
We already know that the figure you claim is not Stanton based on appearance. How can you claim this is still Stanton when the figure is much much smaller and is a man?

Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...
Now you're just making absurd stuff up. The prayer figure is not wearing a hat or a wig. We can see the figure has no hat on in the photo. Sarah's family said she didn't wear wigs. Sarah had white hair according to her family and the prayer figure has black or dark colored hair. This easily disqualifies Stanton as the prayer figure. 

Let's forget about the hair color, ok? You have a serious problem with the figure's weight. The figure is not the obese weight stated by Sarah's family, so you haven't 'proven beyond any doubt' since this major weight conflict disqualifies Stanton to be the figure. How can a much much larger woman be a much much smaller figure as you claim?     

I don't know what Stanton weighed but you are obnoxiously avoiding that I pointed-out to you in my last post that we know Stanton worked at the Depository whatever she weighed...
How would you not know what Sarah Stanton weighed when you interviewed her family? They told you how much she weighed. Did you forget what they told you? They said 300 pounds at first and then said she weighed even more, maybe 500. This account of her weight disqualifies her as the prayer figure. We know where she worked. After she heard three explosions, Sarah immediately went inside the building up to the second floor to look out the window to see what was happening. She went to the restroom and returned to her desk. This comes directly from her statement to the FBI. How can she be to the right of Frazier "staring in shock" when she never gave a statement as to doing this? Why do you dismiss her testimony in favor of a story you make up?     


And we know she was on the landing platform on the Depository front steps...We also know that Stancak correctly located Pauline Sanders as a petite, diminutive woman over by the east side of the front door with her back against the glass...I pointed-out that since we know there were only two women on the landing platform, and we have identified Sanders, that means that since you cannot locate Stanton that she has to be Prayer Man because Prayer Man has Stanton's wide women's hips...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese stocky arms like DiEugenio admitted...Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...And Prayer Man has a uniform color in her dress that goes from shoulder to knee (Oswald had a break in color fabric from his shirt to his pants)...I'm sorry but ignoring my previous post and asking the same disproven questions again does not serve as any valid response to my previous post whose points you are obviously evading with your pretend demands...

Your argument is already invalid on just what you are writing. Stanton doesn't "have to be" prayer man just because you say it is. The appearance alone already disqualifies her and the figure is wearing a man's shirt not a dress. You can see it is a man's short sleeve shirt where it cuts off at the waist. If Stanton was the figure, the hips would be even more wider and the arms would be even bigger with her obese weight. Why are you not giving a valid response to the fact that Stanton would be even larger than the prayer figure? Why would you downsize Stanton's weight on purpose just so you can still make your claim? A much larger figure can't be downsized on purpose Doyle, that makes your claim invalid. Are you purposely still trying to make Stanton weigh less than she really did?   

Can you prove you are really "Rick Plant" and not a Kamp alias?
Look me up on Facebook. Why are you always so obsessed with Kamp and all these other people? 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 05:11:47 PM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 05:50:30 PM

Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 30, 2019, 05:56:11 PM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

If you don’t want your postings “f***ed” with, then stop spreading lies and misinformation.

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Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...

The misquotes that you offer certainly don’t.

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I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...

If you want answers for what Bart says, then freaking ask Bart.

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That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reason you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

No, there’s no automatic default. You need to prove your own claims.

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Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t describe her there.

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nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...

That’s your most ridiculous fabrication yet. She stood there because she wasn’t “pretty” enough? Who are you to decide who’s pretty, topless car wash boy?

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In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...

Because he didn’t say that.

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You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...

Says the guy who (mis)quotes Lovelady’s FBI statement.

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On that one count alone I win this debate...

You can’t debate your way out of a wet paper sack. Certainly not by lying and making things up.

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Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...

More made-up nonsense. You know nothing about Sarah Stanton.

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You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...

Circular. You’ve done nothing to prove that Frazier was even talking to Stanton at this particular time.

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In any case, in the video linked at the beginning Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps

No he doesn’t. You either have a lousy memory or you are flat out lying.

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- so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...

Standing still and staring at each other are two different things no matter how many mental gymnastics you go through to try to equate them.

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Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...

Bull. There are a lot of people on the steps who aren’t visible in Altgens. Besides, we’re talking about Darnell, not Altgens.

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You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...

No she wasn’t. You made that up.

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You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...

WTF? Do you ever listen to yourself?

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You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...

No we don’t. You made that up.

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Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...

Then let’s see the “skilled analysis”.

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Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...

I thought she was wearing a wig because ”that would make sense in a professional situation”. You come up with the most ridiculous lame excuses to justify your fabrications.

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Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...

Not when your “evidence” is all made-up crap.

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You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate.

You’ve done nothing to demonstrate that any of this is true. You’ve just claimed it.

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We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...

Circular. Again. You claim to “see” lots of bizarre things.

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As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...

A one second clip shows someone staring for 3 minutes and then going inside. This would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

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Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...

How do you know what shirt Oswald wore that day?

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You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...

You have neither demonstrated that prayerperson is 5’ 4”, nor that Sarah Stanton was 5’ 4”.

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We proved that in comparison to Frazier...

Who’s “we”, and where is this proof?

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You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...

Why should anybody pay attention to your fantasy about what a good scan would show?

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And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...

How could you possibly know that?

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Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

He’s not the one who should quit this.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 30, 2019, 10:36:17 PM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Brian, I don't see your posting as being serious. I've asked you for an honest answer and you came up preposterous theories. Saying she isn't pretty enough would make her change positions is the worst comment I've ever read.  Not to mention blonde hair turning jet black in the shadows is another one. Your answer for her being heavy because she is an employee is not a serious answer. Where did you come up with these? All you've posted is inadequate answers to prove your claim.

You still haven't posted a valid response to my question. Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says? You take Buell Fraizer at his word, Lovelady and the rest, but you automatically reject Sarah Stanton's own testimony. Why is that?   

Of course my statement it is sincerely offered, that's why I asked you, but you didn't answer it. Why are you avoiding this question? It makes no sense that you use the testimony of everybody else but you automatically reject Sarah Stanton's own testimony when she honestly gave her statement.

 It appears you are holding a serious grudge against other people and your whole mission is to prove them wrong at any cost. Well, your evidence fails to live up to the claims you make. You don't post serious answers to serious questions.

In order to firmly you state you've proven something, there must be solid evidence that leaves no doubt. You've failed to answer the fact that Sarah Stanton had white hair and you saying she was wearing a hat or wig isn't a valid answer. The figure is not wearing a hat and the figure has a receding hairline with a part on the right side. This also eliminates Stanton to be the figure.

It makes no sense for Stanton to squeeze by all those people just to move to the right to "stare at Frazier".  Frazier never said Stanton squeezed by him to move to the right. Stanton never even mentioned Buell Frazier in her statement. This is a direct conflict with your claims that do not pass the smell test.

Why do you avoid the fact that Sarah Stanton never mentions witnessing Buell Fraizer in her statement?

Your claim is that Sarah Stanton is the prayer figure. You've been shown evidence that makes your claim invalid. Now it's up to you to prove your claim, not making others to prove your claim.

I've never stated Oswald is the prayer figure so you haven't won the debate. All I'm stating is the prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton for obvious reasons.

You were told by Sarah Stanton's family that she was much much bigger and had white hair. The figure you are claiming does not match that description. How can you still say the figure is Stanton?

How can you honestly still try to make an invalid claim when you know the truth about Stanton not matching the figure?

Honestly, I think you have invested too much in this theory and you are too ashamed to admit you are wrong so you are just going to keep up with it as long as you can.               
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 30, 2019, 10:39:47 PM
Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

How can you firmly state you've proven Stanton to be prayer man when you are still unsure of her weight and hair color? There are major conflicts that you have not proven yet. Those still need to be answered until you can say you've proven anything.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 30, 2019, 11:49:56 PM
How can you firmly state you've proven Stanton to be prayer man when you are still unsure of her weight and hair color? There are major conflicts that you have not proven yet. Those still need to be answered until you can say you've proven anything.

It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 30, 2019, 11:51:17 PM

OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 12:08:52 AM
It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D

Ford isn't answering what was said...

If Stanton was so obvious and so obese she should be easy to find in the photography...

Ford mocks and ridicules but he comes up a little short in the credible response department and we still await Ford's showing us where Stanton was on the steps?...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 12:24:36 AM
It's not that Mr Doyle has not proven that Prayer Man is Ms Stanton, it's that he has proven that she's not Prayer Man
-------------Mr Doyle, let us recall with irrepressible amusement, is the one who (with more than a little advance help from Ms Linda Zambanini) sourced the photograph of white-haired, obese Ms Stanton!  :D

Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...

You “ignore” everybody who refutes your made-up nonsense, because you certainly can’t respond to any of it.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:12:28 AM
OK, I read the first two paragraphs of Rick's response and I am no longer going to open his posts that I already had on ignore...

Brian Doyle just has admitted defeat by ignoring the serious questions for his invalid claims. He is afraid to answer any serious questions for his prayer woman claim. Any serious researcher would be able to answer the claims they make. Obviously Doyle is unable to give me a valid answer. Doyle is unable to answer why the prayer figure doesn't match the description given by Stanton's family. Doyle is also unable to answer why he doesn't believe Sarah Stanton's own testimony but has no problem using other people's testimony. Doyle is also unable to answer why he gives preposterous answers for serious questions. Funny how Doyle calls other people cowards claiming they are afraid to debate him, but ducks my questions for debate and slinks away into the abyss. Brian Doyle can no longer prove his bogus prayer woman claim since serious questions still remain that Brian refuses to answer. Brian Doyle can't answer these questions because it will prove his Stanton claim to be invalid. This is the reason he hides away on ignore so he won't have to answer serious questions. Sarah's testimony and physical appearance eliminates her as a prayer man candidate for eternity. Brian Doyle has no real evidence to disprove what i just stated. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:14:05 AM
Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.

Yep, he's quite shameless. And yep, that interview was quite something!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:14:36 AM
Kamp is a coward who only posts in places where the moderation protects him with banning and censorship...

He's afraid to confront me face to face like a man because he knows I will absolutely shred him...

For over a year now his Prayer Man BS is being ignored on the Education Forum and no one is answering it...

That's because the membership there knows I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton but they aren't honest enough to admit it...

The moderator there said "It is all about how you treat people" but she didn't answer how ignoring my correct evidence and banning me for posting it treated me or lived up to fair debate standards...

:D

Says the guy who puts people on ignore who already shredded him more than once.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 01:19:25 AM
Linda did all the work to find Rosa and Wanda too, and then Doyle swooped in to do his horrible interview where he told them where Sarah was standing and what it was Sarah actually told them.

Worst interview I've ever heard. Doyle still pretends he doesn't know Stanton's weight or white hair. Then Doyle argued with the woman saying she wore wigs or colored her hair so he could still make his bogus claim. The wig claim still is a lot better than the shadows or she wasn't pretty enough to be standing to the right. Most absurd comment I've ever heard. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:25:59 AM
Ford isn't answering what was said...

If Stanton was so obvious and so obese she should be easy to find in the photography...

Ford mocks and ridicules but he comes up a little short in the credible response department and we still await Ford's showing us where Stanton was on the steps?...

She may be down in the street, she may have already gone back inside, she may own one of the heads in the entranceway identified by Mr Stancak or Mr Kamp.

But who cares where she is in Darnell? She's not PrayerMan, as you yourself proved!  Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:30:11 AM
Worst interview I've ever heard. Doyle still pretends he doesn't know Stanton's weight or white hair. Then Doyle argued with the woman saying she wore wigs or colored her hair so he could still make his bogus claim. The wig claim still is a lot better than the shadows or she wasn't pretty enough to be standing to the right. Most absurd comment I've ever heard.

Indeed------the only thing Mr Doyle got right was to record the interview, which let us all hear his manipulativeness and incompetence!  Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 01:36:42 AM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Good God, imagine what it must be like to be Mr Brian Doyle 24/7!  :-X
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 31, 2019, 02:16:22 AM
I would be interested is seeing a picture of Ms Stanton around that time. 3-5 hundred lbs would seem totally obvious-- esp. with white hair which.... [as was mentioned] prayer person does not have. I don't believe this woman weighed any 500 lbs. I also don't think that prayer person was a woman. It looks like a guy that could be eating a sandwich and drinking a soda 
The blur just makes the figure appear larger--- which anyone should  be able to see  :-\
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 02:26:43 AM
Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Why?

Quote
Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

Talk about creating a pseudo-problem!

Quote
So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Nothing to 'resolve'!

Quote
Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

You obviously haven't looked very carefully at the Darnell footage!

Quote
This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.

Question for you, Mr Mason! How many people still on the crowded steps did notice Officer Baker rushing past?

Quote
And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too,

 :D

Quote
thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

I fear we must diagnose a case of severe Doylitis here, nurse!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 03:41:16 AM
Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

2. it would be improbable for Stanton to remain in a position where she is blocking the door AND also has her LOS mostly blocked. Surely she is aware of her own girth and coupled with being in front of the door and having LOS blocked, she being a reasonable intelligent woman likely would move to some spot a little less conspicuously in the way, and affords her a MUCH BETTER LOS to Elm St.

3. IF that white object in the hand, (and imo it IS an object and NOT a hand itself in sunlight) the white object being raised to the mouth level indicates the probability of a white coffee mug, of the sort that have been captured in a photo of the 2nd floor lunchroom, thus Stanton might have taken such porcelain type mug out with her to the front entrance. In which case, all the more reason to find a position where she could drink from such mug with less probability of someone inadvertantly bumping her, while doing so, which could result in the mug being dropped and shattering on the front entrance level she is standing on.

4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

5. It has NOT been established that Sarah Stanton LEFT the entrance landing between Wiegman film panning past and Couch/Darnell films starting 20 seconds approximately after Wiegman

6. It IS reasonably probable that Sarah Stanton WAS on the front steps just a few seconds BEFORE Wiegman starts since the JFK limo is passing by in the Hughes film, and no shots fired, so no reason for Stanton to have left and returned into the front lobby even as late as the start of the Weigman film.




Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 03:56:34 AM
Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

And why, pray, can't that be the argument? Or why can't Ms Stanton have gone down into the street? And can you show us where you have refuted the Stanton-ID claims of Messrs Stancak and Kamp?

More to the point, why should we care? We know that Ms Sarah Stanton is not PrayerMan in either Wiegman or Darnell, so she's of no intrinsic interest here. Your and Mr Doyle's obsession with this quite secondary figure is just a way of not looking honestly at the short-receding-dark haired PrayerManInDarnell. Which is why, of course, you feel the need to call him Prayerblob, so that you can keep up this silly Anybody-But-LHO charade!  :D

Quote
My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/O5ZcitU.jpg)

Quote
1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

More Doylesque nonsense!

Quote
4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

But she has been excluded as Prayer Man beyond reasonable doubt, so you can relax and stop agonising over the matter.  :)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:17:21 AM
Why, Alan asks, is it necessary to show  where exactly Sarah Stanton is?

Because if prayblob is NOT Stanton, then Stanton must be somewhere ELSE on that entrance landing, unless the argument is that Stanton has returned into TSBD front lobby, sometime just after Weigman pans past but just before Couch/Darnell film starts.

My reasons for why Prayerblob MAY be Sarah Stanton

1. The corner being a very logical place for a larger woman of 300 lbs and short height of 5'4" to stand, out of the way, not blocking the front door.

2. it would be improbable for Stanton to remain in a position where she is blocking the door AND also has her LOS mostly blocked. Surely she is aware of her own girth and coupled with being in front of the door and having LOS blocked, she being a reasonable intelligent woman likely would move to some spot a little less conspicuously in the way, and affords her a MUCH BETTER LOS to Elm St.

3. IF that white object in the hand, (and imo it IS an object and NOT a hand itself in sunlight) the white object being raised to the mouth level indicates the probability of a white coffee mug, of the sort that have been captured in a photo of the 2nd floor lunchroom, thus Stanton might have taken such porcelain type mug out with her to the front entrance. In which case, all the more reason to find a position where she could drink from such mug with less probability of someone inadvertantly bumping her, while doing so, which could result in the mug being dropped and shattering on the front entrance level she is standing on.

4. No other figure on the steps or entrance landing has been identified as Sarah Stanton beyond reasonable doubt.

5. It has NOT been established that Sarah Stanton LEFT the entrance landing between Wiegman film panning past and Couch/Darnell films starting 20 seconds approximately after Wiegman

6. It IS reasonably probable that Sarah Stanton WAS on the front steps just a few seconds BEFORE Wiegman starts since the JFK limo is passing by in the Hughes film, and no shots fired, so no reason for Stanton to have left and returned into the front lobby even as late as the start of the Weigman film.

You're missing the point along with Doyle. Both of you are making up bogus scenarios for your claims. Stanton's testimony already disqualifies her as the figure. Stanton's appearance disqualifies her as the figure. Buell Frazier's interviews disqualifies her as the figure.  Why make up stuff for your claim?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:21:35 AM
And why, pray, can't that be the argument? Or why can't Ms Stanton have gone down into the street? And can you show us where you have refuted the Stanton-ID claims of Messrs Stancak and Kamp?

More to the point, why should we care? We know that Ms Sarah Stanton is not PrayerMan in either Wiegman or Darnell, so she's of no intrinsic interest here. Your and Mr Doyle's obsession with this quite secondary figure is just a way of not looking honestly at the short-receding-dark haired PrayerManInDarnell. Which is why, of course, you feel the need to call him Prayerblob, so that you can keep up this silly Anybody-But-LHO charade!  :D

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/O5ZcitU.jpg)

More Doylesque nonsense!

But she has been excluded as Prayer Man beyond reasonable doubt, so you can relax and stop agonising over the matter.  :)

Based on this photo we all can Sarah Stanton is not Prayer Man. Sarah's family said she was larger than in this photo which was taken a few years after. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:25:56 AM
Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

:D

This isn't how it works. It's up to you guys to prove your claim. All the evidence proves it to be invalid.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 04:40:33 AM
Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps,

I can’t believe you’re falling for Doyle’s BS.

Where did Molina say he was when he talked to Calvery?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on October 31, 2019, 04:53:42 AM
Rick - I don't believe your statement "Why don't you believe what Sarah Stanton says" is sincerely offered...I don't think you honestly mean it...What I do think is your posting isn't serious and is just meant, like Iacoletti, to constantly take a contrary or doubting position just for the sake of f***ing with me and my postings...

Your offering here is kind of silly because the quote you offer doesn't have any evidentiary bearing on where Sarah was standing before she went inside...I also pointed-out last time that if you are saying Sarah went back inside immediately then you are also saying Bart Kamp's position for Sarah down on the east steps is impossible...You avoid answering that...That means Kamp has failed to find Stanton and therefore Stanton automatically defaults to be Prayer Man for all the reasons you are obnoxiously ignoring that I posted in my last post...

Your questioning of why would Stanton move to Frazier's right side is also silly and possesses no reasoning to show why she didn't...It also doesn't honestly answer that if Stanton was to Frazier's left you would be able to point her out in the photography - especially Altgens...You failed to answer that and your substance-free pondering is not any adequate replacement for the evidence you are badly failing to answer in public...Your questioning of why would she move to Frazier's right side doesn't live up to the evidence I posted of Frazier and Lovelady describing her there nor does it make the identifying features I described, and you ignored, go away...Stanton would move to Frazier's right because, psychologically, she wasn't pretty to look at and the spot in the shadow was open because it wasn't a good spot to see the limousine...In any case you ignored that Frazier said he and Sarah were "deepest in to the shadows" and Prayer Man and Frazier are deepest in to the shadows...You are flagrantly ignoring evidence you know you can't answer in your responses...

You also just referenced the FBI as trustworthy and are taking them at their word...On that one count alone I win this debate...Sarah was obviously a god-fearing, law abiding Texan who obviously told FBI of her experience seeing Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room itching to get back in there...They omitted it because it exonerated Oswald and they knew that was where he was...If you take their word straight you are simply discrediting yourself and I don't have to do much work...

You are not telling the truth when you say Frazier never said that...He said it clearly when he described Sarah telling him that Calvery said the president has been shot...There's some dishonesty going on on the Education Forum where moderator Mark Knight said Frazier was not looking at Prayer Man in Darnell...If Sarah was talking to Frazier and telling him what Calvery said then she was looking at him...The EF has violated its code of conduct towards oversight of fair academic debate...The moderator in charge said "If you don't like it there are plenty of other websites you can go to"...I find that boorish and uncredible...Wrongful moderation is being stood by because the persons involved don't want to admit they were wrong or their oversight wasn't that smart...In any case, in the video linked at the beginning of this thread Frazier says he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes after Calvery got to the steps - so Frazier's staring at Sarah in shock is confirmed there for any honest person who is honestly seeking the facts...It is not true that Frazier didn't say it because he is saying right there and you are ignoring it because you know that I'm right...

Altgens is not blurry...If Sarah were to Frazier's left you would see her there in Altgens...You are uncredibly ignoring that Altgens is close enough in time to both Hughes and Darnell that we already know Sarah was described as being in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Altgens...The reason you can't find her to Frazier's left and are making excuses with blurry photos is because we both know she is over in the Prayer Man spot at that time as both Frazier and Lovelady made clear...

You're evading the point...Stanton was as heavy as she was because she was hired and was an employee...You are evading answering the common sense point that whatever weight she was we know Stanton was an employee and we know she was out on the landing platform...So your not being able to find her to Frazier's left, as well as your visibly evading my point here, shows why I've won this debate and proven Prayer Man is Stanton...Thank you for losing so badly...

Any skilled analysis of the Prayer Man figure shows obese features...She has wide hips and she has an obese forearm...The reason the glowing hand is so visible is because it is Sarah's large fat hand...Prayer Man also has chubby cheeks in Davidson...You are not telling the truth when you say Prayer Man is not obese...But, again, you are failing to answer the point and are publicly evading it...The fatter you make Stanton the less excuse you have for not finding her to Frazier's left...The more you fail to do that, and the more you make up clearly inadequate excuses to get around it like you do here, the more I resoundingly win this debate like I am doing...

Who do you think you are fooling Rick?...The only reason you are conceding the hair color issue is because you know I am correct that blond hair can appear dark in certain conditions like shadow...So in other words your original point was bogus and you are now backing off of it...I have proven Prayer Man is Stanton...So therefore whatever color her hair appears in Darnell is explained by something because you can see it with your own eyes...You guys have reality issues because you think you can BS your way around what you can see with your own eyes...

Your point is silly (I am avoiding saying "idiotic" for site rules reasons)...None of what you write overturns any of the evidence I posted...Your point that if Sarah was to Frazier's right she would have said it to FBI is silly...She had no reason to detail which side of Frazier she was standing on at the time...Sarah obviously condensed her standing with Frazier to "going right back inside"...You are uncredibly ignoring that Darnell is 30 seconds after the shots and after Calvery finished her shouting and talking to Lovelady & Shelley...We see Sarah is still there in Darnell so that shows Frazier's version is accurate...We know Frazier's version of he and Sarah staying still for 3 minutes is accurate because we can see it in the reality of the film...You are obviously desperately trying to force falsely-interpreted testimony over what you can see with your own eyes and that makes you uncredible...It also gives me a win...As the film evidence shows, Stanton stayed staring at Frazier for 3 minutes and then went inside...You are also uncredibly not answering that the first 30 seconds after the shots that is shown in Darnell is all we need to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...This means you are not really seeking the evidence...

Rick - you said in public that Prayer Man has Oswald's "short shirt sleeve"...However the shirt Oswald wore that day was a long-sleeved shirt...This is a good example of the sloppy recklessness that is visible in your offerings and disqualifies you from being taken seriously...

You ignored two things...You flagrantly ignored that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...We proved that in comparison to Frazier...You also ignored that once we get a good scan of the Darnell original that it will even more clearly show, than it already does, that the fabric of Prayer Man's garment does not change color from Prayer Man's shoulder to her knees...That is because it is Sarah Stanton's short-sleeved dress from that day...If it were Oswald wearing a shirt and pants you would see the divide between them...And Oswald would not have his shirt hanging out like a slob in front of the president...Your stuff isn't cutting it Rick...You should really quit this...

Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 interview with FBI agent Nat Pinkston recounted in an 11-29-63 memo found in the Dallas FBI files at the Weisberg Archives) "she was standing on the front steps of the building as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions, however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator and went to the second floor offices and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."

(11-23-63 interview recounted in 12-10-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) “Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter, she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk.”

This disqualifies Sarah Stanton as the figure.

Your stuff hasn't proved your theory and you're just grasping at straws now. Stanton had white hair not blonde, that would not turn jet black in a shadow. Absolutely ridiculous claim. Stanton said she had no idea what was going on. That also eliminates her as prayer man since prayer man knew what was happening. The figure is not wearing a dress. Again, you discredit Sarah Stanton's own testimony for your own made up stories about what you think she was doing. Well, she would know more about what she was doing than you would. Sarah's family said she was much bigger than the figure, so that overturns all your claims. You thought the figure was wearing a hat, wig, or hair piece holding a purse with a dress on so you have no idea what you are looking at.   

Sarah Stanton went inside after the shots. You are posting false claims here. What does her being an employee have to do with her being extra large? You say she isn't pretty enough and that means she needs to move to the right? More ridiculous stuff coming from you. Where did I ever say it was Oswald? So, it's you that isn't being taken seriously making silly assumptions.

Why don't you believe what Sarah says?     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 04:20:57 PM
You're missing the point along with Doyle. Both of you are making up bogus scenarios for your claims. Stanton's testimony already disqualifies her as the figure. Stanton's appearance disqualifies her as the figure. Buell Frazier's interviews disqualifies her as the figure.  Why make up stuff for your claim?

fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 04:58:13 PM

I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...

FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...So FBI either omitted or altered the two statements of the witnesses who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room, which is a sure sign of guilt...

Rick Plant, of course, plays dumb, ignores this, and takes the side of the proven liars (the FBI) and quotes their reports as the credible source...

Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...We see Prayer Man making that exact turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Frazier described Sarah as doing...No person who was honestly evaluating the evidence would not give that the significance it obviously deserves...Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...No serious researcher would ignore this...So counter to what Rick Plants says, the opposite is true and Frazier's statements leave no doubt Prayer Man is Stanton - as well as the obese female features, woman's face in Davidson, and Sarah's 5 foot 4 height that Plant ignores in his one line answer...

To this Zeon replies "Fair enough" and gives Plant credit he doesn't deserve and hasn't earned by his material...

I have Plant on ignore exactly for this reason...The only reason I responded was because Zeon quoted him...
 


 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 05:16:49 PM
I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...

You haven’t proven squat.

Quote
FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...

Fabricated with no evidence.

Quote
Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...

Frazier never described Sarah being in the prayerman spot. You just made that up.

Quote
Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...

He didn’t say she turned to him. You just made that up.

Quote
Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...

Frazier didn’t say that he and Sarah stood still for 3 minutes. You just made that up.

Quote
Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still

This is ridiculous, even for you. Darnell shows everybody standing still. It’s a one second view of the entryway.

Why do you continue to repeat the same falsehoods over and over again?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 31, 2019, 05:44:13 PM
I can’t believe you’re falling for Doyle’s BS.

Where did Molina say he was when he talked to Calvery?

Mr. BALL. Now, November 22, 1963, the place you worked was in the second floor of this School Book Depository Building.
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you go out on the street to see the motorcade?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. I was standing on the front steps.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. MOLINA. Right next left of me was Mr. Williams and close to there was Mrs. Sanders.
Mr. BALL. Pauline Sanders.

Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Roy Truly?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes; he was standing with Mr. Campbell; they were going out to lunch.
Mr. BALL. They were in front of you were they?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You saw the Presidents car pass?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I heard the shots.
Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound?
Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I just stood there, everybody was running and I didn't know what to do actually, because what could I do. I was just shocked.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Yes, this fellow come to me---Mr. Williams said, somebody said, somebody was shooting at the President, somebody, I don't know who it was. There was some shooting, you know, and this fellow said "What can anybody gain
371


by that"; he just shook his head and I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to .think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.

Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. MOLINA. No.

Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.

Mr. BALL. What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 05:53:38 PM

Molina is talking about after he came back from the Knoll when he saw Calvery in the lobby...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2019, 06:32:13 PM
LOL. He didn’t say anything about talking to her on the steps. When she came up to him to tell him about the shooting they were in the lobby.

Therefore these blobs are not Calvery and Molina.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on October 31, 2019, 09:03:18 PM

Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on October 31, 2019, 11:09:47 PM
fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

Mr Stancak's reconstruction offers only one (and IMO an unnecessarily awkward) posture for PrayerMan.

Perfectly possible that PrayerMan has both feet on the first step down. Or----------one foot on the first step down and the toes of the other foot resting on the landing.

No problem, nice and comfortable, you're welcome! Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 12:11:58 AM
Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...

No, we don’t know that Lovelady is on his way up the extension. There’s no definitive proof that’s Lovelady.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 04:32:42 PM
Mr Stancak's reconstruction offers only one (and IMO an unnecessarily awkward) posture for PrayerMan.

Perfectly possible that PrayerMan has both feet on the first step down. Or----------one foot on the first step down and the toes of the other foot resting on the landing.

No problem, nice and comfortable, you're welcome! Thumb1:

Nope, it's not possible that Prayer Man had both feet on the step...

If so then by Stancak's own shadow analysis when Prayer Man has his shoulders squared forward in Wiegman his left side would necessarily have to be in sun...

I have been posting for years that Stancak intentionally avoided doing any graphic for Wiegman because he realized it disproved his foot on the step claim for the reason above...

Because it proved Prayer Man isn't Oswald it was ignored but that doesn't mean it isn't good proof...

Prayer Man can't have both feet on the step or even one foot on the step because then the 5 foot 9 Oswald would be 6 inches shorter than Frazier and what we see in Wiegman and Darnell is a 5 foot 4 Stanton who is 8 inches shorter...

 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 04:38:44 PM
Because it proved Prayer Man isn't Oswald it was ignored but that doesn't mean it isn't good proof...

“Doyle said so” doesn’t constitute “good proof”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 07:27:29 PM
fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

Oswald isn't the factor in this current situation.  The fact of the matter is that the prayer figure is not Stanton for all the obvious reasons which Doyle refuses to acknowledge.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Molina was the man in front of Calvery on the steps in Darnell...

We know that because Lovelady is on his way up the extension in Darnell so therefore he can't be that man...

Brian, I remain unable to conclude that the Person/Image, in front of GloriaCalvery/Image as she is entering the stairway, as not representing KarenWestbrook.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 08:18:29 PM
I've already proven Sarah Stanton is Prayer Man...
:D  :D  :D
Brian, in order to say you've proven something everyone should be agreeing with you. So far, I haven't see one person agree with your faux Stanton claim. You haven't proven anything, since there are major conflicts that you still refuse to acknowledge. You hide away from me on ignore so you don't have to. That's not what a confident "researcher" who says they've proven something would do.     

FBI is lying and they omitted Stanton's witnessing of Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room...The obvious reason is because Stanton told them the original fresh memory version as she heard it and told FBI Oswald said he was going back in to the break room...FBI also altered Carolyn Arnold's witnessing because she then saw Oswald in the place he told Stanton he was going (the 2nd floor "break room")...So FBI either omitted or altered the two statements of the witnesses who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room, which is a sure sign of guilt...
Brian, the only reason you're saying the FBI is lying is because Sarah Stanton's FBI testimony completely destroys your faux Stanton claim. This is the precise reason you ignore her solid testimony. Have it your way Brian, you can no longer use any FBI statements for any of the witnesses, since you say the FBI is lying. Hopefully, all the posters will continue to remind you of that.   

Rick Plant, of course, plays dumb, ignores this, and takes the side of the proven liars (the FBI) and quotes their reports as the credible source...

Stanton's FBI testimony is only one aspect of your seriously flawed claim. You still have a major problem with Stanton's weight, hair color, and with Buell Frazier's recollections. Trying to discredit the FBI testimony doesn't get you anywhere since you still have major problems. As I just mentioned above, you can no longer use any FBI witness statements for anything you write since you say they are all liars. Hopefully, the other posters will hold you accountable for your position on the FBI not being credible as you just stated. 

Rick Plant writes that Buell Frazier's interviews disqualify Stanton as Prayer Man...I mean that is just out-right t*****ing, because any objective interpretation of Frazier's interviews and statements shows the exact opposite and shows that Frazier clearly described Sarah as being in the Prayer Man spot...
Frazier always gestures to his left where Stanton is standing. He never puts her to his right where you are claiming. Looks like you've added another falsehood to your list. In order for Stanton to be in the position you claim, she would've had to squeezed through all those people with her large weight then get into position to "stare" which is not accurate since Stanton was to the left of Frazier where he was talking to her. There wouldn't be enough time for her to move all the way to the opposite side. It also makes no sense for her to do that. You still haven't answered this as you hide away on ignore so you won't have to.         

Rick is silly making that claim when all the evidence says the opposite...
Which evidence says the opposite? You've never posted any evidence.

What Rick hasn't credibly answered is the fact Frazier clearly described Sarah turning to him to tell him what Calvery had said...
Stanton was to his left. You still haven't answered how an extra large woman could squeeze her way all the way over to the other side to get into position in order for all this to happen. There would be no time and it makes no sense for her to move all the way over when she was already in perfect position. 

We see Prayer Man making that exact turn towards Frazier from Wiegman to Darnell exactly as Frazier described Sarah as doing...
Prayer man is not facing Frazier. Prayer man is partially turned which again refutes your faux claim. 

No person who was honestly evaluating the evidence would not give that the significance it obviously deserves...
You're embellishing the body position of prayer man in order to make your faux claim.

Also, as the video in the original post in this thread shows, Frazier confirmed that Sarah and he stood still for 3 minutes after hearing Calvery...Darnell shows Frazier and Prayer Man looking at each other and standing still exactly as Frazier described Sarah and he as doing...

Prayer man and Frazier are not "looking at each other". You still haven't answered how an extra large woman could squeeze her way all the way over to the opposite side in order for all this to happen. There wouldn't be enough time since she was already in position to the left of Frazier.   


No serious researcher would ignore this...

No serious researcher would make the absurd claims as you do.

So counter to what Rick Plants says, the opposite is true and Frazier's statements leave no doubt Prayer Man is Stanton - as well as the obese female features, woman's face in Davidson, and Sarah's 5 foot 4 height that Plant ignores in his one line answer...
:D  :D  :D

You haven't countered anything except to list your same faux claims. You still haven't answered all the major conflicts that is still present. You have no way to measure that prayer figure is 5' 4". Stanton's was more obese than the figure, so you still have a major problem that you refuse to acknowledge. We haven't seen a woman's face in Davidson, even he doesn't fully support your faux claim.

To this Zeon replies "Fair enough" and gives Plant credit he doesn't deserve and hasn't earned by his material...

Your "material" is laughed at by everyone, so I'm not sure why you have the faux attitude. The only thing you've earned is 560 falsehoods that continues to grow each time you post. 

I have Plant on ignore exactly for this reason...The only reason I responded was because Zeon quoted him...

You have me on ignore since you're unable to answer for your faux claims, so you choose to hide away so you won't have to answer for your obvious lies.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 01, 2019, 08:21:00 PM
Nope, it's not possible that Prayer Man had both feet on the step...

If so then by Stancak's own shadow analysis when Prayer Man has his shoulders squared forward in Wiegman his left side would necessarily have to be in sun...

But I thought you didn't accept Mr Stancak's shadow analysis?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 08:43:36 PM
2) Stanton could be wearing a hat, scarf, hairpiece, or wig...However I suspect Darnell's film and equipment ended up registering Stanton's blonde hair as dark shaded because Stanton was "deepest in to shadows on the steps" as Frazier described...Prayer Man is deepest in to the shadows...With some film and photography shadow can make blond hair look darker than it is...In any case I have proven beyond any doubt that Prayer Man is Stanton so how her blond hair appears is moot and obviously due to some explainable cause...

:D :D :D

This is the absurd bunk you came up with? You gotta be joking. Wigs? Scarfs? Hats? Hairpieces? Shadows? Are you serious Doyle? How long did it take you to think this up?

Point out for us the wig, scarf, hat, or hairpiece you see on prayer man. The man is not wearing anything since a receding hairline is visible. Where you see these ornaments adorned on prayer man's head?

White hair is never going to turn jet black. 

You haven't proven anything, you're posting more fallacious comments for absurd theory.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 08:45:07 PM
fair enough, Rick. But I equally am not convince prayerblob is Oswald either, since i do not find the awkward standing position of one foot on the landing and one foot on lower step explanation for only 5'3" height to be very plausible or why even someone would attempt to maintain such position when standing with both feet on the landing gives the person same LOS to Elm st.

I suppose the question for me is, and has been for awhile now, what is Mr Stancak's reasoning that caused the "placed" mannequin to be male, positioned in that exact location, and with an awkward stance?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
:D :D :D

This is the absurd bunk you came up with? You gotta be joking. Wigs? Scarfs? Hats? Hairpieces? Shadows? Are you serious Doyle? How long did it take you to think this up?

Point out for us the wig, scarf, hat, or hairpiece you see on prayer man. The man is not wearing anything since a receding hairline is visible. Where you see these ornaments adorned on prayer man's head?

White hair is never going to turn jet black. 

You haven't proven anything, you're posting more fallacious comments for absurd theory.

You're being way too kind to Mr Doyle, Mr Plant----------------he has proven something, namely that PrayerMan cannot be Ms Sarah Stanton. He's just too incompetent (and mad) to see the fact the rest of us saw many moons ago!  Thumb1:
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 08:53:34 PM
Brian, I remain unable to conclude that the Person/Image, in front of GloriaCalvery/Image as she is entering the stairway, as not representing KarenWestbrook.

It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

Plus he said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal in his testimony...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 01, 2019, 08:57:06 PM
Prayer Man not having both feet on the step is provable by looking at Stancak's overhead graphic...

If you pivot Prayer Man to have both feet on the step in that overhead graphic you can see his left shoulder would have to be lit by sun...

Stancak realized this which is why he didn't offer any graphic for Wiegman...

Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

Not only does Ford show the methodology of the Prayer Man people but he shows that he can't answer the evidence for Prayer Man being Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

If you look closely and then invent a bunch of made-up BS.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 01, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
Prayer Man not having both feet on the step is provable by looking at Stancak's overhead graphic...

If you pivot Prayer Man to have both feet on the step in that overhead graphic you can see his left shoulder would have to be lit by sun...

Stancak realized this which is why he didn't offer any graphic for Wiegman...

Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

Not only does Ford show the methodology of the Prayer Man people but he shows that he can't answer the evidence for Prayer Man being Stanton...

:D

If prayer man is lit up in the sun that means the shadows wouldn't be as dark, correct?

That means the deep shadows wouldn't be dark to make prayer man's hair black as you said. 

This proves that Stanton still would be seen with white hair and not black as you claimed.

This means Brian, you proved for us with this revelation, that Sarah Stanton is not Prayer Man. Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2019, 09:14:27 PM
Ford is ignoring clearly spelled-out photogrammetric evidence and measurements...He names calls instead of answering firm science...

A baseless claim by a lying hack about what a photo shows is neither “photogrammetric evidence” nor “firm science”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 09:42:52 PM
Well if some of the CTs here are still not convinced that Sarah Stanton is Prayerblob, then you must show where you think Sarah ACTUALLY is on the entrance steps or behind everyone else on the landing.

Yes, we all know that Pauline Sanders at one point was beside Sarah Stanton or "with her" at least for some period of time, but if Sarah did NOT move away from Pauline, then Sarah would be blocking the front entrance door.

So how do you resolve Baker going past Pauline Sanders but not bumping into Sarah Stanton?

Baker had to have gone up the right side of the stairs, otherwise, he would have barged right into Gloria Cavalry talking to Joe Moline at the bottom of the LEFT side of the railing steps, and also gone right IN FRONT of Buell W. Frazier too, before ever getting to the front door.

This is improbable  to have missed imo, if Baker had used the left side of the steps.
 
But if Baker used the right side, then it becomes more probable for Cavalry, Molina, BW Frazier to have not seen or not notice Baker going around and behind them using the right side steps.

And it is a logical reason why Prayerblob just might be Sarah Stanton too, thus Sarah did not mention ever seeing Baker either. She would be in that corner, and she is looklng down at Cavalry and glanced at BWF (according to BWF)  and others are blocking Stanton's LOS to the front door and the right side of the entrance steps enough to be plausibly missing seeing Baker.

Great observations, and well stated. IIRC, about 6 years ago, some 50 years, a half century, after 11/22/'63, "someone" decided to "claim" that an image of a person, not properly identified, without any corroborating eyewitness confirmation, represented the most famous accused LoneGunmanAssassin in history, LeeHarveyOswald. Said Person/Image's identity , aka PrayerPerson, had not been an issue prior to "someone's claim", IIRC.

After research, and research studies, it became my drawn conclusion that the utmost likely person represented by PrayerPerson/Image, is the now deceased SarahDeanStanton, then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who like so many others, had simply gone outside during lunch time to view the passing JFK Motorcade.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 01, 2019, 09:54:15 PM
It's Molina...You can see his bald pate and head shape if you look closely...

Plus he said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal in his testimony...

I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 02, 2019, 12:43:03 AM
After research, and research studies, it became my drawn conclusion that the utmost likely person represented by PrayerPerson/Image, is the now deceased SarahDeanStanton, then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who like so many others, had simply gone outside during lunch time to view the passing JFK Motorcade.

“Research”. LOL.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Zeon Mason on November 02, 2019, 01:10:31 AM
I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.

Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 02, 2019, 03:55:10 AM
Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

 :D

(https://i.imgur.com/U99Kgib.jpg)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 02, 2019, 02:52:48 PM
I have looked closely, and what I "see" is the back of a head scarf attired head of a Person/Image, likely female. And, IIRC, KW has not been identified elsewhere during DFilm of the entrance portal area.

I thought that too until Graves pointed me to a close up done by Larsen...You can see eyes and mouth on that person...You can see the shape of Molina's head and its balding pattern...

Molina said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal right after the shots...

It is 100% Molina...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 02, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
I thought that too until Graves pointed me to a close up done by Larsen...You can see eyes and mouth on that person...You can see the shape of Molina's head and its balding pattern...

 BS:

You and Graves think you see all kinds of things that you can never demonstrate.

Quote
Molina said he drifted over towards the limousine side of the portal right after the shots...

No he didn’t. That’s another thing you made up. What he actually said was,

“Just after his car disappeared from my view I heard 3 shots. I moved from my position on the steps in the direction of where the Presidential car was proceeding.”

Moved from my position on the steps. This figure is on the steps.

And as I keep reminding you, Molina said he talked to Calvery inside the lobby.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 02, 2019, 05:45:56 PM

The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The Prayer Man people who are led by Bart Kamp are ignoring the proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and are pushing their false theory despite the evidence that disproved it...

The Prayer Man people are ignoring that the other two people who witnessed the same interview wrote that the Coke on the 2nd floor part was in reference to the time period when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

In Fritz and Bookhout's notes the Coke on the 2nd floor part was clearly in reference to when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

This is covered in Hosty's notes as going to the 2nd floor to get a Coke...

If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going down to the 1st floor so they mirror the chronology of Fritz and Bookhout's notes exactly...

The Fritz and Bookhout notes then have Oswald going out with Bill Shelley in front and low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going outside to watch the presidential parade...

All 3 of those notes of the same interview have the same chronology and that chronology starts with the Baker lunch room encounter 75 seconds after the last shot...

These Prayer Man nuts have been poisoning the research field with this Greg Parker-hatched Prayer Man crap ever since 2013...

Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 02, 2019, 07:49:32 PM
Well idk if its a scarf, but the volume of hair or whatever it is back of prayerblobs head is too much volume to be the tapered trim hairline of Oswald, imo.

Zeon, actually Brian and I are discussing the Person/Image in DarnellFilm seen, partially, about midway up the stairs and just in front of GloriaCalvery/Image, likely about 20 seconds post shooting. Unfortunately, we both could be wrong, but only one of us can be correct.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 02, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The Prayer Man people who are led by Bart Kamp are ignoring the proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and are pushing their false theory despite the evidence that disproved it...

The Prayer Man people are ignoring that the other two people who witnessed the same interview wrote that the Coke on the 2nd floor part was in reference to the time period when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

In Fritz and Bookhout's notes the Coke on the 2nd floor part was clearly in reference to when Baker & Truly entered the lunch room...

This is covered in Hosty's notes as going to the 2nd floor to get a Coke...

If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going down to the 1st floor so they mirror the chronology of Fritz and Bookhout's notes exactly...

The Fritz and Bookhout notes then have Oswald going out with Bill Shelley in front and low and behold the Hosty notes then have Oswald going outside to watch the presidential parade...

All 3 of those notes of the same interview have the same chronology and that chronology starts with the Baker lunch room encounter 75 seconds after the last shot...

These Prayer Man nuts have been poisoning the research field with this Greg Parker-hatched Prayer Man crap ever since 2013...

Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...

Are there any indications as to exactly when FBI SA JamesHosty's notes were transcribed?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 04:26:02 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5114787ee4b0807f570d7372/1468887598860-UKTKZZRO34RO36JHWPYH/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kJcjAgNXXIx78eP5oxMAaMhZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVF7lRD0kTV_jCIdadZiyILdMnbld6C889x5bxbOSo9o42YPfIniGCpLu0rKCrZrb0k/image-asset.jpeg)(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SHO9wpdnpDA/WRkmKAz5pVI/AAAAAAABLyM/os_Yt3txEGcD-j_HxcvC47olVjbx4wYIACLcB/s530/TSBD-06.png)

It appears to me that Frazier [who is very tall] is standing at the very top of the landing. Prayer person [obviously somewhat shorter] is standing yea much down on the steps. Seemingly leaning somewhat [if you will] against the wall. Seldom do women stand like that. Frazier had jet black hair. Prayer person has somewhat medium dark hair. It is certainly not white nor does Prayer-person weigh in excess of 200 lbs. If a picture is worth a thousand words this one is now only worth a couple of dozen.
Quote
The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

                                                                              Brian Doyle

About the notes...who knows? Members here have the right to ignore or accept what they choose.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 03, 2019, 05:11:47 AM
The Hosty notes are NOT new evidence of Prayer Man being Oswald nor do you have a right to ignore the serious evidence I uncovered that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

You haven’t “uncovered” or “proven” squat. You’ve just lied and made up a bunch of nonsense.

Quote
If you look at Fritz and Bookhout's notes Oswald then goes down to the 1st floor AFTER the Baker lunch room encounter...

Your cherry-picking is shameless. If you look at Fritz’s and Bookhout’s notes, Oswald said he was on the first floor when the motorcade went by.

Quote
Oswald was in the lunch room during the shots, as my more important discovery of Sarah Stanton's relatives proved...

Stanton’s relatives didn't place Oswald in the lunch room during the shots. That was just your made-up BS.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
According to her affidavit ...Sarah Stanton was on the steps. The unfortunately blurry Weigman photo still shows her location---

(https://gaylenixjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/weigman-crop-of-sarahstanton.jpg)

Quote
Stanton’s relatives didn't place Oswald in the lunch room during the shots.
   The relatives were not witnesses to anything nor did they testify to anything. The claim that Mrs Stanton weighed 3-5 hundred lbs is obviously bogus.
https://gaylenixjackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/sarahstanton.png
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 03, 2019, 03:45:01 PM

Thread hijack...

No serious researcher would ignore that both Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton over on the west side of the portal when the limousine passed...

Prayer Man doesn't have a woman's face for no reason in the Davidson enhancement...

The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 09:21:48 PM
The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...

  This face...wearing glasses from "The Matrix"?

 (https://i.imgur.com/Wqaemtc.jpg)

Brian ...you are cracking me up :D
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 03, 2019, 09:49:34 PM

That's not the female face in Davidson...

I drew that in fall 2016 before I managed to get Stanton's photo...That was just to show how well the face accommodated female features...

If you are going to show an image please show the one that was referenced...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2019, 10:01:10 PM
That's not the female face in Davidson...I drew that in fall 2016 before I managed to get Stanton's photo...That was just to show how well the face accommodated female features...If you are going to show an image please show the one that was referenced...
I do not know where that is. Until it is found for me...I am stuck with the trans-sexual Prayer Person above.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 04:06:03 AM
Thread hijack...

No serious researcher would ignore that both Frazier and Lovelady placed Stanton over on the west side of the portal when the limousine passed...

No they didn’t. You just made it up.

Quote
Prayer Man doesn't have a woman's face for no reason in the Davidson enhancement...

The female face on Prayer Man in Davidson is Sarah Stanton...

“Doyle said so” isn’t evidence.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 04, 2019, 03:02:56 PM

It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Larry Trotter on November 04, 2019, 05:40:31 PM

It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...

It continues to be my belief, my visual interpretation, that the Person/Image, aka PrayerPerson, is facing the camera and is not looking slightly to said Person/Image's left. And, that does indicate that the Person/Image's facial right side is in shadow, but therefor does not indicate dark hair on the back of the head.

However, my visual interpretation indicates the beginning of a slight head turn to Person/Image's left, or the end of a head turn back from said left.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on November 04, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
It continues to be my belief, my visual interpretation, that the Person/Image, aka PrayerPerson, is facing the camera and is not looking slightly to said Person/Image's left. And, that does indicate that the Person/Image's facial right side is in shadow, but therefor does not indicate dark hair on the back of the head.

However, my visual interpretation indicates the beginning of a slight head turn to Person/Image's left, or the end of a head turn back from said left.

Larry,

You need to change the 3 in Brian's post to a 6.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 06:58:51 PM
It is the 8th image in the original post in Duncan's Prayer Woman thread that is locked on page 6 of this forum...

Still can’t figure out how to post images, huh?

I think that’s what got your thread locked in the first place.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 04, 2019, 07:30:43 PM

I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 04, 2019, 09:46:50 PM
I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...

 :D

Sarah Stanton's face does not appear in "Davidson's enhancement". Even Davidson doesn't believe it does.

It doesn't "have to be" Stanton since no real evidence points that way. All the real evidence proves the opposite of your foolish claim. Prayer Man is not Stanton.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 10:31:15 PM
I guess Jerry isn't interested in the evidence he called for...

That referenced image shows Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man from Davidson's enhancement of the Wiegman image...

No, it shows an image that looks nothing like Sarah Stanton.

Quote
This proves that Prayer Man is Stanton because Stancak identified Pauline Sanders so if we have another woman in the spot Frazier and Lovelady said Stanton was in then it has to be Stanton...

Frazier and Lovelady didn’t say that Stanton was in that spot. That’s another Doyle lie.

Also, Stancak identified Stanton as being in a different spot, so if you’re going to name-drop him don’t twist what he said.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 04, 2019, 10:33:03 PM
:D

Sarah Stanton's face does not appear in "Davidson's enhancement". Even Davidson doesn't believe it does.

It doesn't "have to be" Stanton since no real evidence points that way. All the real evidence proves the opposite of your foolish claim. Prayer Man is not Stanton.

Doyle thinks that if he repeats the same falsehoods over and over again, they will somehow become true. He is the worst kind of charlatan.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 04, 2019, 11:30:40 PM
Still can’t figure out how to post images, huh?

I think that’s what got your thread locked in the first place.
Actually, it [Prayer Woman] was Duncan MacRae's thread. Brian zealously hijacked it..... Some 4970 posts--- 4900 of them were Brian's ::)
Each thread post has a number starting with a Post # 1 Prayer Woman [Duncan's]..... Not everybody has the same number of posts to a page. I for example have 25 to a page. You can have 10-50 if you select it so in your profile. If I have to search all day for Brian's ideas...count me out.
I give up. Prayer Person can be whoever anyone wants. If it is not Oswald, it will still not change my mind that he was set up. 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 12:38:03 AM
The reason that thread is so long is because there are certain nay-sayers who are impervious to evidence who just post negative comments to whatever is shown...

In any case the Davidson enhancement was posted in Duncan's original post and it showed Sarah Stanton's female face on Prayer Man...

Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 12:49:54 AM

Kamp wrote:

Quote
Greg made mention of this thread in the McAdams Google group
And the village idiot walked in as well (ScrumDrum) and where there are other wastes of space who gather to spew their vitriolic rubbish as well.
What a pathetic lot over there, Greg did the right thing over there and leave those losers to themselves.......
Doyle cuts a sorry figure as always as even the trash over there makes fun of him and his retarded observations.
That clown could not even deliver a bottle of milk.

Greg left because he knew I shredded his Prayer Man crap and he couldn't respond...

Greg knows Prayer Man is Stanton...He practically admitted so on my Prayer Woman Facebook page...

Who does Kamp think he's fooling?...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 05, 2019, 01:54:18 AM
One thing not to do...try and add something that isn't there. So trying to draw over the face just isn't Kosher. Drawing arrows is OK.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/asg9gdlar/Darnell.jpg)

After further review--I would say that Prayer Person looks like-could be-- [somewhat]....a woman with a big butt wearing a dress. I don't think it is Scarf Lady. The rear-end sticks over from the white blob under the right elbow to under the left elbow.
It also looks like someone who is holding a coffee cup in their right hand.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 03:32:20 PM
One thing not to do...try and add something that isn't there. So trying to draw over the face just isn't Kosher. Drawing arrows is OK.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/asg9gdlar/Darnell.jpg)

After further review--I would say that Prayer Person looks like-could be-- [somewhat]....a woman with a big butt wearing a dress. I don't think it is Scarf Lady. The rear-end sticks over from the white blob under the right elbow to under the left elbow.
It also looks like someone who is holding a coffee cup in their right hand.

Nobody says anything when the Prayer Man people impose Oswald's face over the face of Prayer Man...

You are correct when you say you see a woman with a big butt and dress in Darnell...That's correct and when Bill Miller was given the sole spot on arguing against Prayer Man by Gordon who acts as a dictator, who arbitrarily selects who is allowed to talk about the subject and who isn't, the main thing he pointed-out was that Prayer Man had noticeably wide hips...Jim D is one of the most dishonest people in Kennedy research because he made a public statement saying when he first saw the Prayer Man image he thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald...Jim stopped saying that because Jim is a dirty political bas**** who, when he knows something he said proves somebody right, stops saying it in order to sustain the unfair persecution of that person for posting correct evidence...Jim has a whole bag full of dirty tricks and whole slew of sycophants that help him achieve that to make sure the guy who posted the correct evidence is punished and driven off the Kennedy internet so his buddy Bart Kamp can continue to post wrong evidence...

The Prayer Man crowd is a nasty group that uses some very dirty tactics to destroy anyone who dares point-out they are stupidly wrong on the Prayer Man theory and that some very simple evidence makes it more than clear that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...This Prayer Man issue represents something very ugly...It represents a movement of unskilled hacks hijacking and taking over the JFK internet under the control of corrupted and ignorant moderators on the DPF and EF who succeeded in getting anyone who opposed them banned by that insider dirty moderator...When I posted a crop of Altgens that had Lovelady labeled Oswald in order to show Lovelady's height Gordon came in and said that image represented my being an incompetent and that he was going to use it as a basis for my banning...It was obvious I did not create that image and was only using it because it was the best image I could find of Lovelady's height, but the power-abusing Gordon had found his excuse...When I pointed-out to Gordon that Bill Miller had used the exact same image with no such protest from himself, Gordon answered "Bill Miller is a long term accepted EF poster" so it was OK for him...Obviously Gordon makes up the rules as he goes along and rides the back of certain members from the cowardly safety of his moderator position...I was banned shortly after with Gordon saying he didn't have to explain why with none of the Prayer Man people I was handily disproving complaining...So while the JFK research community sells itself as a principled group that calls out the government on its abuse of power and corruption it actually practices much worse and does so for the sake of a spoiled core of favored insider members who all collectively don't want to admit they were wrong on Prayer Man...Jim D is the kind of guy who lets an innocent person be hanged for his own wrongdoing and then agrees with the dirty hangman the whole time only doing it so an effective critic of his wrong claims can be removed using dirty tactics delivered by a total incompetent mod...

Sarah was obese so if you have skill you can see that obese left forearm and its thickness in Darnell...Sarah had big obese hands, so what you are seeing is not a cup it is Sarah's obese right hand glowing in partial sun...

The proving of Prayer Man being Stanton serves two important causes...It breaks up the dirty group that has hijacked the JFK internet and uses the Prayer Man issue in order to get around their basic lack of skill...And it also sends Oswald back up to his true location in the 2nd floor lunch room and gets the evidence back on track...

I'll leave it to others to figure out the cowardly lack of integrity of the JFK research community that they would let someone suffer such a disgraceful removal for the crime of standing up for the correct evidence...Then going on their merry way and pretending nothing happened while the nasty's continue to get away with their abuse...   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 09:55:00 PM
Nobody says anything when the Prayer Man people impose Oswald's face over the face of Prayer Man...

You are correct when you say you see a woman with a big butt and dress in Darnell...That's correct and when Bill Miller was given the sole spot on arguing against Prayer Man by Gordon who acts as a dictator, who arbitrarily selects who is allowed to talk about the subject and who isn't, the main thing he pointed-out was that Prayer Man had noticeably wide hips...Jim D is one of the most dishonest people in Kennedy research because he made a public statement saying when he first saw the Prayer Man image he thought the person was too stocky to be Oswald...Jim stopped saying that because Jim is a dirty political bas**** who, when he knows something he said proves somebody right, stops saying it in order to sustain the unfair persecution of that person for posting correct evidence...Jim has a whole bag full of dirty tricks and whole slew of sycophants that help him achieve that to make sure the guy who posted the correct evidence is punished and driven off the Kennedy internet so his buddy Bart Kamp can continue to post wrong evidence...

The Prayer Man crowd is a nasty group that uses some very dirty tactics to destroy anyone who dares point-out they are stupidly wrong on the Prayer Man theory and that some very simple evidence makes it more than clear that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...This Prayer Man issue represents something very ugly...It represents a movement of unskilled hacks hijacking and taking over the JFK internet under the control of corrupted and ignorant moderators on the DPF and EF who succeeded in getting anyone who opposed them banned by that insider dirty moderator...When I posted a crop of Altgens that had Lovelady labeled Oswald in order to show Lovelady's height Gordon came in and said that image represented my being an incompetent and that he was going to use it as a basis for my banning...It was obvious I did not create that image and was only using it because it was the best image I could find of Lovelady's height, but the power-abusing Gordon had found his excuse...When I pointed-out to Gordon that Bill Miller had used the exact same image with no such protest from himself, Gordon answered "Bill Miller is a long term accepted EF poster" so it was OK for him...Obviously Gordon makes up the rules as he goes along and rides the back of certain members from the cowardly safety of his moderator position...I was banned shortly after with Gordon saying he didn't have to explain why with none of the Prayer Man people I was handily disproving complaining...So while the JFK research community sells itself as a principled group that calls out the government on its abuse of power and corruption it actually practices much worse and does so for the sake of a spoiled core of favored insider members who all collectively don't want to admit they were wrong on Prayer Man...Jim D is the kind of guy who lets an innocent person be hanged for his own wrongdoing and then agrees with the dirty hangman the whole time only doing it so an effective critic of his wrong claims can be removed using dirty tactics delivered by a total incompetent mod...

Sarah was obese so if you have skill you can see that obese left forearm and its thickness in Darnell...Sarah had big obese hands, so what you are seeing is not a cup it is Sarah's obese right hand glowing in partial sun...

The proving of Prayer Man being Stanton serves two important causes...It breaks up the dirty group that has hijacked the JFK internet and uses the Prayer Man issue in order to get around their basic lack of skill...And it also sends Oswald back up to his true location in the 2nd floor lunch room and gets the evidence back on track...

I'll leave it to others to figure out the cowardly lack of integrity of the JFK research community that they would let someone suffer such a disgraceful removal for the crime of standing up for the correct evidence...Then going on their merry way and pretending nothing happened while the nasty's continue to get away with their abuse...   

Nobody cares about the beef you have with others on various forums.

You still haven't proved anything since Sarah Stanton is not the prayer figure.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 09:56:20 PM
Doyle thinks that if he repeats the same falsehoods over and over again, they will somehow become true. He is the worst kind of charlatan.

He certainly is but he is also proven wrong over and over again.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 05, 2019, 10:12:13 PM

Rick Plant

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #220 on: Today at 09:55:00 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 10:17:20 PM
Rick Plant

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #220 on: Today at 09:55:00 PM »
ReplyQuote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
:D   :D  :D

Still hiding on ignore eh? Still afraid to defend your bogus claims? You should since they are ridiculous and all have been disproven. 

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 05, 2019, 10:35:57 PM
I only mention that it LOOKS like a coffee cup. See Brian... you are changing a statement from 'looks like' to a statement where I say 'it is'.
 Is that not what you gripe about in your rant about other posters in other forums?
Prayer Person looks like they are holding something ----TO ME. I mean who stands like that with their hands like a praying mantis?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable.gif) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable2.gif)

There was a clip posted by Barry Pollard---At the very end of it you can see a large woman with a big butt as she turns to her left and looks back. Her right hand has that very same look is Prayer Person & dress about the same shade.....if so ergo !!

(http://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2016_12/58585469cf867_couchloveladyshelley7l8kc9.gif(GIFImage518346pixels).gif.805da2f5805e3e2ebd8a78c992f6b7af.gif)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 05, 2019, 11:24:46 PM
I only mention that it LOOKS like a coffee cup. See Brian... you are changing a statement from 'looks like' to a statement where I say 'it is'.
 Is that not what you gripe about in your rant about other posters in other forums?
Prayer Person looks like they are holding something ----TO ME. I mean who stands like that with their hands like a praying mantis?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable.gif) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerstable2.gif)

There was a clip posted by Barry Pollard---At the very end of it you can see a large woman with a big butt as she turns to her left and looks back. Her right hand has that very same look is Prayer Person & dress about the same shade.....if so ergo !!

(http://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2016_12/58585469cf867_couchloveladyshelley7l8kc9.gif(GIFImage518346pixels).gif.805da2f5805e3e2ebd8a78c992f6b7af.gif)

Brian isn't even sure himself of what he wants to claim.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 12:59:14 AM

Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...

It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 02:29:57 AM
Mark A. Oblazney

Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
« Reply #227 on: Today at 02:11:55 AM »
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You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 02:31:13 AM
Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...
I see someone's head go by as that lady is turning...you see a purse? "Both hands" huh?
Brian ...you must have Z ray vision. Superman has nothing on you!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 02:42:15 AM
I knew I got that 'coffee cup' idea from somewhere....

(https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/prayer-man-in-wiegman-gif.gif?w=612&h=465)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 03:52:02 AM
I see someone's head go by as that lady is turning...you see a purse? "Both hands" huh?
Brian ...you must have Z ray vision. Superman has nothing on you!

No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 06, 2019, 04:36:53 AM
Sarah is manipulating her purse with both hands in that clip...

Therefore common sense tells you she doesn't have a big porcelain cup in her hands when doing it...

It's her big chubby hand...

In Wiegman she's raising her purse to her face in order to look in to it...(Or lowering it according to the film sequence timing)...

A purse Brian? World's smallest purse. Your fake claims become worse by the day.


No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...
 
:D :D :D

Hilarious Brian
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 04:50:37 AM
No, I just have skill...

Not everyone has it...

Yes, you’re very skilled at making up crap and lying about what witnesses said.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 09:05:33 AM
It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 03:21:03 PM
It is a dude taking pictures with a camera, Mr. Chubby Hands.....
It does look like [it could be] someone with a camera taking a picture.
The questions that it would raise are... Why are they so far back into a corner where there would be such a poor field of lens vision? Why not step out further to get a better picture? Also--what ever happened to the picture or pictures they took?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 06, 2019, 03:29:29 PM

My opinion is that the best intelligent technical analysis and the proof it gains should not be allowed to be violated by persons who ignore it and post obviously inferior viewpoints or material...

What is the point of developing the best evidence if people are going to ignore it and therefore undermine and insult its value?...

It can't be a "dude" if Davidson proved Prayer Man had a woman's face...When we got to proving Davidson people got weird and avoided admitting the clearly-shown proof...It is my opinion that they shouldn't be allowed to do that because it damages board quality...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on November 06, 2019, 04:31:04 PM
It does look like [it could be] someone with a camera taking a picture.
The questions that it would raise are... Why are they so far back into a corner where there would be such a poor field of lens vision? Why not step out further to get a better picture? Also--what ever happened to the picture or pictures they took?

Thanks for agreeing to that as a possibility, sir.  I'm afraid it wasn't LHO, though.  He was busy upstairs on the 6th floor killing the president.  This whole thing has become a parlour game of sorts.  According to Patrick Collins, there are approximately 260 pieces of evidence that just about proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the little marxist pig shot Kennedy.  Take 250 away, the evidence still remains, whether he had help or not (including all the voices in his tiny little head).  And there was ONLY one Oswald (sorry, john armstrong.  money can make people believe what they should not).
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 05:47:29 PM
Thanks for agreeing to that as a possibility, sir.  I'm afraid it wasn't LHO, though.  He was busy upstairs on the 6th floor killing the president.  This whole thing has become a parlour game of sorts.  According to Patrick Collins, there are approximately 260 pieces of evidence that just about proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the little marxist pig shot Kennedy.

LOL.  Does he specify what they are?  Even more ridiculous than Bugliosi's "53", no doubt.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2019, 05:52:31 PM
It can't be a "dude" if Davidson proved Prayer Man had a woman's face...

But he didn't.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/50390f82525f5158db33acb14cb03b36/tenor.gif)
I didn't prove anything, yet.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 06, 2019, 05:58:22 PM
Quote
260 pieces of evidence
LOL.  Does he specify what they are?  Even more ridiculous than Bugliosi's "53", no doubt.
I was wondering about that too. I have never heard of this Patrick Collins but I concede that he is entitled to his opinion. I believe it has been demonstrated that the Warren Commission's case does not nearly equal the some of it's parts...not even close :-\
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 22, 2019, 04:28:35 PM

Stan Dane wrote:

Quote
Sean Murphy went dark six years ago on the 50th anniversary.

How time flies.

Murphy scooted when Frazier went to the 6th Floor Museum and told them Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton...

Murphy realized he had teamed-up with a nut in Greg Parker and promoted a garbage theory...

He got out of town before he had to admit it...

No credible researcher with a credible theory cuts and runs and abandons it...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 22, 2019, 07:29:43 PM
Steely Dan wrote:

Quote
You should have no trouble producing the clip were BWF calls PM Stanton...no wait!...you'll claim it's been deleted. Very Happy
Whatever your height...that's how high shit can be stacked.

You see the level of basic rigor over at Bart's forum is zero because it is kept that way on purpose through banning whenever someone posts the correct evidence on Prayer Man...

Because of that Steely Dan is allowed to ignore that the evidence he calls for has been repeatedly posted on this and other websites since 2016...

Because there is a rogue double standard on the Prayer Man issue Steely Dan is allowed to post idiotic gutter trolling in response to serious arguments...

In the below clip at 33:50 Frazier not only makes clear Prayer Man was Stanton by name but he also gestures back and forth to his right where Prayer Man was standing when talking about speaking with Sarah over what Calvery had said...

The persons with the problem responding and producing evidence are Kamp and Steely Dan who both stay moronically and dishonestly silent in reaction to this crushing confirming proof...


Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 22, 2019, 08:26:13 PM
Steely Dan wrote:

Quote
At no point does BWF state that PM is Stanton...you lied...again Very Happy
You don't have the chops for this Brian.
Still waiting to hear from your lawyer btw... was that yet another lie?

When Frazier says he was talking to Sarah about what Calvery said when she ran up he is identifying Sarah as Prayer Man because the Darnell film shows Frazier talking to Prayer Man right after the time Calvery got to the steps...

The video at the beginning of this thread even further confirms it by showing Frazier adding the additional information that he and Sarah stood there fore 3 minutes after hearing it...

You also dishonestly ignored that Frazier twice gestured to his right towards where Prayer Man was standing when referring to Sarah in the posted video...

When Frazier says "So we stood there for a few minutes" there is no doubt what so ever that when he rocks his hand back and forth between himself and the Prayer Man position he is directly referring to Sarah Stanton and her location to his right in the Prayer Man spot...

Frazier very much does say Prayer Man is Stanton by doing that...

So not only does the Darnell film show Frazier staring in shock at Sarah for the long period described in the video at the top of this thread, but Frazier's clear hand gestures also confirm it...

You're beaten Steely Dan and trolling it instead of admitting the obvious only digs your lack of credibility hole deeper...

The trolls on Kamp's website are losers because they need to ban to make their bogus theories work...
 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 22, 2019, 08:45:55 PM
In the below clip at 33:50 Frazier not only makes clear Prayer Man was Stanton by name

He does nothing of the kind.  That's just another Doyle falsehood.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-1/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-1 (https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-1/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-1)

At 53:18:

Mack: was there anyone back there with you?

Frazier: uh, yes.  There was a lady that worked up in one of the offices.  And I do not remember her name. 

Mack: Was she off to your right, or off to your left?

Frazier: Left.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 22, 2019, 10:35:51 PM

Steely Dan wrote:

Quote
Total and utter bullshit Brian...

-  she was never in the PM position

Steely Dan offers only self-referenced denials but never once attempts to give any credible answer to the technical details I posted as proof...

What that tells you is he knows he can't directly or honestly answer my evidence...

There's no doubt that anyone who watches the posted video will see Frazier wag is hand back and forth to the right where Prayer Man was when talking about Sarah...

Frazier is clearly indicating by gesture that Sarah was to his right at the time of Darnell and that is where we see Prayer Man with his obese arm and wide woman's hips, as well as woman's face as seen in Davidson...

I think we know who is offering the "bullshit" here Steely and it isn't me, since you are obviously unable to answer valid evidence when shown...

Steely is just in open flagrant denial and contempt of the cited evidence and what can clearly be seen in the referenced videos...



Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 23, 2019, 12:14:31 AM

Steely Dan wrote:

Quote
The "technical details" you "posted as proof" consist of a photo of a fat lady with grey hair...who you long to pass off as LHO. You did get one thing right though. I, and the rest of the planet, are in contempt of your "evidence" I'm a smartass &
As for BWF' hand movements...make no mistake...if he met you in real life he'd give you the finger Laughing 
Still no lawyer I see...

I clearly referenced a posted video and the time marks where the evidence was...

What Steely Dan is telling people here is the degenerate trolls over at Kamp's website cannot credibly discuss evidence...

Steely Dan is trolling my proof and its clearly referenced details because he knows he can't acknowledge it without conceding its realness and validity...

OK, so Steely Dan is an uncredible troll who can't discuss proof when shown...

OK, the internet is full of those types of crazies...

What I don't understand is why, when this is so obvious and the Kamp people fold so badly when asked to discuss the proof, that they somehow still get the approval of the otherwise intelligent members of the JFK research community?...

There it is, Steely Dan was shown undeniable proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and couldn't answer it in public...

What Steely Dan offers is idiotic trolling by any standard and the JFK research community continues to practice a rogue double standard on Prayer Man because it refuses to admit it was wrong...

I spoke to Buell Frazier...It was actually you Prayer Man crazies that he emphasized were nuts...



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 23, 2019, 05:33:39 AM
Steely Dan wrote:

Steely Dan offers only self-referenced denials but never once attempts to give any credible answer to the technical details I posted as proof...

What that tells you is he knows he can't directly or honestly answer my evidence...

There's no doubt that anyone who watches the posted video will see Frazier wag is hand back and forth to the right where Prayer Man was when talking about Sarah...

That’s not evidence — that’s your overactive imagination.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 23, 2019, 07:47:55 AM
Steely Dan wrote:

When Frazier says he was talking to Sarah about what Calvery said when she ran up he is identifying Sarah as Prayer Man because the Darnell film shows Frazier talking to Prayer Man right after the time Calvery got to the steps...

The video at the beginning of this thread even further confirms it by showing Frazier adding the additional information that he and Sarah stood there fore 3 minutes after hearing it...

You also dishonestly ignored that Frazier twice gestured to his right towards where Prayer Man was standing when referring to Sarah in the posted video...

When Frazier says "So we stood there for a few minutes" there is no doubt what so ever that when he rocks his hand back and forth between himself and the Prayer Man position he is directly referring to Sarah Stanton and her location to his right in the Prayer Man spot...

Frazier very much does say Prayer Man is Stanton by doing that...

So not only does the Darnell film show Frazier staring in shock at Sarah for the long period described in the video at the top of this thread, but Frazier's clear hand gestures also confirm it...

You're beaten Steely Dan and trolling it instead of admitting the obvious only digs your lack of credibility hole deeper...

The trolls on Kamp's website are losers because they need to ban to make their bogus theories work...

You might want to dial back the bravado Mr. Doyle. At 34:06 Frazier says, "The lady I was standing next to" and he gestures with his left hand. His left hand gesture is obvious. At no time does Frazier state Stanton was to his right. Stanton went back inside the building after that and was not staring at anybody in shock.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 23, 2019, 07:53:25 AM
Steely Dan wrote:

I clearly referenced a posted video and the time marks where the evidence was...

What Steely Dan is telling people here is the degenerate trolls over at Kamp's website cannot credibly discuss evidence...

Steely Dan is trolling my proof and its clearly referenced details because he knows he can't acknowledge it without conceding its realness and validity...

OK, so Steely Dan is an uncredible troll who can't discuss proof when shown...

OK, the internet is full of those types of crazies...

What I don't understand is why, when this is so obvious and the Kamp people fold so badly when asked to discuss the proof, that they somehow still get the approval of the otherwise intelligent members of the JFK research community?...

There it is, Steely Dan was shown undeniable proof that Prayer Man is Stanton and couldn't answer it in public...

What Steely Dan offers is idiotic trolling by any standard and the JFK research community continues to practice a rogue double standard on Prayer Man because it refuses to admit it was wrong...

I spoke to Buell Frazier...It was actually you Prayer Man crazies that he emphasized were nuts...
:D :D :D

Don't forget to watch 34:06 when Frazier gestures with his left hand. You're wrong again.

You spoke to Stanton's family and they told you Sarah was 300-500 pounds with white hair and you argued that she wore a wig. That description disqualifies Stanton as prayer man.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 23, 2019, 08:05:54 AM
Steely Dan wrote:

Steely Dan offers only self-referenced denials but never once attempts to give any credible answer to the technical details I posted as proof...

What that tells you is he knows he can't directly or honestly answer my evidence...

There's no doubt that anyone who watches the posted video will see Frazier wag is hand back and forth to the right where Prayer Man was when talking about Sarah...

Frazier is clearly indicating by gesture that Sarah was to his right at the time of Darnell and that is where we see Prayer Man with his obese arm and wide woman's hips, as well as woman's face as seen in Davidson...

I think we know who is offering the "bullshit" here Steely and it isn't me, since you are obviously unable to answer valid evidence when shown...

Steely is just in open flagrant denial and contempt of the cited evidence and what can clearly be seen in the referenced videos...
:D :D :D

Are you talking about your usual made up evidence like your 600 falsehoods?

You're the one offering the bunk Brian because Frazier clearly indicated that Stanton was to his left when he gestures at 34:06 as he does in all his video taped interviews. You might want to watch those videos to refresh your memory because Frazier never places Stanton to the right.  It is always to the left like he gestured at 34:06 in this video taped interview.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 23, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
No serious observer would ignore that Frazier clearly calibrates when his description of Sarah happened when he details that it was when Calvery said the president was shot before Lovelady & Shelley went up the extension...

You can see in Darnell that Lovelady & Shelley are about 3 seconds up the extension after leaving the front steps...

Therefore the time period in Darnell is shortly after Calvery had finished her shouting the president has been shot and telling Lovelady & Shelley about it at the base of the steps...

There is no doubt about this from the film so that means what we see in Darnell is definitely the time period where Frazier describes turning to Sarah and discussing what Calvery had said followed by staying still for 3 minutes, as described in the video at the top of this thread...

With all this in mind Frazier, without a doubt, rocks his hand back and forth to his right side when discussing Sarah...

Davidson shows, without a doubt, a woman's face on Prayer Man...

And Darnell shows Frazier facing and talking to Prayer Man at a time where he clearly described talking to Stanton...

No honest person would deny that the Darnell film shows Frazier facing Prayer Man for its entirety at the time he tells Fagin he was talking to Sarah...

Time for you Prayer Man crazies to give this one up and admit Prayer Man is Stanton...

It is amazing you would try to get away with denying Davidson clearly showing a woman's face on Prayer Man after all the other evidence was already proven...

It is amazing you would deceive yourselves that you were getting away with ignoring Frazier's clear description of Calvery's timing vs Sarah's location that he more than spells-out...

This is booby, kiddie stuff (yet seems to get the preferred support of the Education Forum and its head has a preferred open seat at that forum while its leader claims he is sensitive to conduct and quality of content)...

It is the job description of Gordon and Lauren Johnson as moderators to judge the evidence presented by members and see if good evidence is being denied or ignored and defend it according to their own rules and the purpose of their websites...

Both those individuals did the opposite and attacked the truth-teller for the purpose of defending their site favorites and their own incompetency for not noticing they had hosted a bogus theory and allowed members to violate their own site rules...


Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 24, 2019, 03:52:53 PM
This is all fabricated nonsense. Darnell doesn’t show anybody facing and talking to anybody. That’s just Doyle’s wishful thinking.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 29, 2019, 05:01:51 PM

What Oliver Stone is doing with Judyth Baker is exactly what DiEugenio and the research community is doing with Prayer Man...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 29, 2019, 07:53:06 PM
To show how dishonest Bart Kamp is he ignores that Frazier confirms Sarah was to his right in the Prayer Man spot with his clear gestures to his right in the linked video at 34:38 and 34:46...

No doubt about it...

If Frazier gestured to his left for Stanton it was because he was remembering where she was when she first came out to the steps...

Using the Greg Parker method of analysis the Prayer Man people cherry pick Frazier telling of when Sarah first came out and was to Frazier's left...Only they aren't sophisticated and disciplined enough to realize Sarah shifted to the Prayer Man spot by the time of Darnell...

Also, "So we stood there for a few minutes" destroys Kamp's nutty choice for Stanton down the east steps:




 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 29, 2019, 08:44:02 PM
The video image here has been flipped, no?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 29, 2019, 09:37:02 PM
To show how dishonest Bart Kamp is he ignores that Frazier confirms Sarah was to his right in the Prayer Man spot with his clear gestures to his right in the linked video at 34:38 and 34:46...

No doubt about it...

If Frazier gestured to his left for Stanton it was because he was remembering where she was when she first came out to the steps...

Using the Greg Parker method of analysis the Prayer Man people cherry pick Frazier telling of when Sarah first came out and was to Frazier's left...Only they aren't sophisticated and disciplined enough to realize Sarah shifted to the Prayer Man spot by the time of Darnell...

Also, "So we stood there for a few minutes" destroys Kamp's nutty choice for Stanton down the east steps:



You are lying. Frazier always gestures to his left and has said in a video where he says "left". No amount of trickery can make Stanton "prayer man" when the physical features,  her FBI statement, and Frazier's recollections never have her in that location.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 29, 2019, 10:18:03 PM
You are lying. Frazier always gestures to his left and has said in a video where he says "left". No amount of trickery can make Stanton "prayer man" when the physical features,  her FBI statement, and Frazier's recollections never have her in that location.

I am not lying...The gestures I referenced are as I said at the time marks I indicated...

It is not true that Fazier "always gestures to his left" because you can see him only gesturing to his right in the above citations...He is clearly gesturing that Sarah was to his right in the Prayer Man spot at the time marks I indicated (and you ignored)...

There is a simple explanation why Frazier sometimes locates Stanton to his left...That is because when she first came out to the landing that is where she stood until she moved to the Prayer Man spot...If you don't comprehend that you probably don't belong in research...

It is simply false that no "physical features" place Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...Davidson proved beyond a doubt that Prayer Man had a woman's face in Wiegman...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese hips, arms, and hands...Prayer Man is Stanton's exact 5 foot 4 height...

Kamp failed to locate Stanton to Frazier's left in any photography...

The blurry figure Kamp falsely identified as Stanton couldn't be her because, in this linked video, Frazier said Stanton stood next to him up on the platform for several minutes after Darnell...

Frazier's recollections place Stanton exactly in the Prayer Man spot when he speaks of talking to Stanton about what Calvery had said...Darnell shows Frazier facing and talking to Prayer Man at that precise time...

 




Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Duncan MacRae on November 29, 2019, 10:20:21 PM
The video image here has been flipped, no?

Yes, I've removed it, I've been duped. I wonder who made the flipped Video, and for what purpose.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on November 29, 2019, 10:28:23 PM
Yes, I've removed it, I've been duped. I wonder who made the flipped Video, and for what purpose.

Thank you, Mr MacRae, your integrity here is appreciated!  Thumb1:
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 29, 2019, 10:41:22 PM

Bart Kamp wrote: 

Quote
The weasel is zombie lying on a matter that has already been solved yonks ago, but the twat gives it another go. Brian Doyle is the scum that deserves to be at JudyCon.

Kamp answered the evidence I just posted above...

If you'll notice Kamp avoids mentioning the specific evidence I cited because he knows it is correct so he doesn't want to mention it...

It is actually Kamp who belongs at the Judy Baker site because, like Judy, he's pushing a false claim that he refuses to admit the correct evidence on when shown...

And he gets the weird approval of otherwise well known credible Kennedy Assassination figures like Judyth...

Show me any respected accomplished Kennedy author, researcher, or source that writes the punkish stupidity Kamp writes above...

Yet somehow Kamp gets preferred status from many prominent researchers in the community...

He gets recommendation from DiEugenio and Gordon...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 30, 2019, 03:35:55 AM
There is a simple explanation why Frazier sometimes locates Stanton to his left...That is because when she first came out to the landing that is where she stood until she moved to the Prayer Man spot...If you don't comprehend that you probably don't belong in research...

A “simple explanation” that is a complete Doyle fabrication. That’s not “research”.

Quote
It is simply false that no "physical features" place Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...Davidson proved beyond a doubt that Prayer Man had a woman's face in Wiegman...

False. Chris Davidson specifically said that he didn’t prove anything.

Quote
Prayer Man has Stanton's obese hips, arms, and hands...

Doyle fabrication. This has not been demonstrated in any way — just claimed.

Quote
Prayer Man is Stanton's exact 5 foot 4 height...

Fabrication. There is no evidence that Stanton was exactly 5 foot 4, and Doyle hasn’t even demonstrated that prayerperson is 5 foot 4.

Quote
Kamp failed to locate Stanton to Frazier's left in any photography...

False. But even if this was true, it tells you nothing about who Prayerperson is. This is simply fallacious reasoning.

Quote
The blurry figure Kamp falsely identified as Stanton couldn't be her because, in this linked video, Frazier said Stanton stood next to him up on the platform for several minutes after Darnell...

False. This is a complete fabrication.

Quote
Frazier's recollections place Stanton exactly in the Prayer Man spot when he speaks of talking to Stanton about what Calvery had said...Darnell shows Frazier facing and talking to Prayer Man at that precise time...

False. Darnell doesn’t show anybody facing and talking to anybody. That’s pure wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 30, 2019, 07:17:32 AM
I am not lying...The gestures I referenced are as I said at the time marks I indicated...

It is not true that Fazier "always gestures to his left" because you can see him only gesturing to his right in the above citations...He is clearly gesturing that Sarah was to his right in the Prayer Man spot at the time marks I indicated (and you ignored)...

At 34:06 Frazier says : "The lady I was standing next to", and then he gestures with his left hand like he does in all his video taped interviews.  He never gestured with his right. He just had his right hand up while he was talking. Frazier said he was talking to Stanton to his left. Why would she move all the way over to his right father away while they were in conversation?  Stanton never mentioned Frazier in her FBI statement and you ignore that.

 
There is a simple explanation why Frazier sometimes locates Stanton to his left...That is because when she first came out to the landing that is where she stood until she moved to the Prayer Man spot...If you don't comprehend that you probably don't belong in research.

A person who makes up 600 lies and fabrications doesn't belong in research. Where is your proof of this? Frazier never said Stanton was to his right. Frazier is on another video specifically saying "left". Why would she move all the way over to the right when she was in a perfectly good position? Stanton never gave a statement putting herself in that position. You ignore that. 

It is simply false that no "physical features" place Stanton in the Prayer Man spot...Davidson proved beyond a doubt that Prayer Man had a woman's face in Wiegman...Prayer Man has Stanton's obese hips, arms, and hands...Prayer Man is Stanton's exact 5 foot 4 height...

Your interview with Stanton's family put her at 300-500 pounds with white hair. Those are not the physical features of prayer man. Where is the white hair on prayer man?  That figure is not obese as Stanton's family said she was. Davidson doesn't even agree with that.  Nobody knows the exact height for prayer man.

Frazier's recollections place Stanton exactly in the Prayer Man spot when he speaks of talking to Stanton about what Calvery had said...Darnell shows Frazier facing and talking to Prayer Man at that precise time...

The distance to the right between prayer man and Frazier is too far to be talking. Stanton was to his left like Frazier always states and then she went inside the building as she told the FBI in her statement. Stanton never mentions Frazier in her FBI statement or places herself in that prayer man position. Frazier never places Stanton in that position either.  He is in several interviews and always gestures or says the word "left". 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 30, 2019, 01:25:15 PM
Nice try Rick...

I actually agree that Frazier gestures left at 34:06...But he is doing it because he's mixing memories of when Sarah first came out to the landing and stood to his left...

You Prayer Man zealots have lowered the quality of JFK assassination evidence analysis...That's because you're begging false conclusions from the evidence and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear...

Rick shows a good example of how the Prayer Man people violate the rules of evidence...They see Frazier point left and that's all they need...However more skilled analyzers realize that Frazier is talking about the time period after Lovelady & Shelley left the steps when Calvery arrived at the steps...

Rick is clearly claiming that Stanton is over to Frazier's left at this time because that is the time period that Frazier is referring to no doubt...The reason Rick and the Prayer Man fantasists violate the rules of evidence is because we would have to be able to see Sarah if she was over to Frazier's left...

However we don't...Darnell is the time period in question and where is Rick Plant's Stanton over to Frazier's left in Darnell?...Rick and Kamp make bizarre claims but then they don't follow them through in the evidence...

Rick Plant never answers for the fact Chris Davidson proved beyond a doubt that Prayer Man had a woman's face in Wiegman...Since we know Pauline Sanders is the tiny face between Lovelady & Shelley in Altgens that means the only other woman had to be Stanton...Again - Rick Plant fails the rules of evidence by not following through or recognizing other proven evidence...Here you have the Greg Parker/Bart Kamp method of research poisoning the quality of research in the community...Those two are not man enough to admit they were wrong...

Rick Plant is telling a brazen non-truth when he says Frazier never gestures to his right...If we could run Frazier's gesture at 34:46 by a public survey and have them recognize that Frazier was specifically talking about his conversation with Stanton at that moment there is absolutely no doubt that his hand goes back and forth between himself and Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Darnell...That's proof that there is no looking back from, despite the brazen childish denials of the Prayer Man crazies...
 
Quote
Your interview with Stanton's family put her at 300-500 pounds with white hair. Those are not the physical features of prayer man. Where is the white hair on prayer man?  That figure is not obese as Stanton's family said she was. Davidson doesn't even agree with that.  Nobody knows the exact height for prayer man.

This excuse-making doesn't make the wide hips, obese arm and hand, uniform color dress from shoulder to knees, and 5 foot 4 height go away that you still haven't answered for...You once again show a preference for specious see what you want to see logic while ignoring confirming evidence...That is a pure violation of the normal rules of evidence and evidence vetting...It is possible that blonde hair appeared dark in the shadows with Darnell's film equipment...It is possible Sarah had a scarf like the other women...

Prayer Man comes up to the chin of Frazier with both feet on the landing platform, counter to Stancak's false claim that he has a foot on the step...Since Frazier is 6 foot 1/2 inch that means Prayer Man is about 5 foot 4 - which is Stanton's exact height...And is too short to be Oswald's 5 foot 9 height...

You've failed here Rick because I have condemning other evidence that Stanton is to Frazier's right and in the Prayer Man spot...Especially Davidson...You and Kamp on the other hand fail on all counts in producing evidence that Stanton is to Frazier's left at the time of Wiegman and Darnell...You can't just ignore that...

The members of the Education Forum are too cowardly and dishonest to stand up to a power-abusing bully moderator who banned an innocent person for proving the correct evidence...Some example they make of a research community that says it is standing up to the government...They'll gladly turn over one of their own for banning execution as long as they don't have to admit wrongness...Why bother defending JFK at that point?...At Jim DiEugenio's guidance they still haven't publicly admitted that they were wrong and Prayer Man is Stanton...They know this is true because Kamp is now being ignored - but those spine-less ***tards still haven't admitted they banned a brilliant researcher who is capable of disproving a 95% conspiracy researcher majority or felt shame for it...When they get an incompetent dummy like Gordon to censor their disprover they keep the dirty win and accept his moderator abuse based on personal grudge...And these people are asking the public to take them seriously when they ask their trust to go take on the government...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on November 30, 2019, 08:27:47 PM
Stancak just posted a new image of Oswald as Prayer Man on the Education Forum...

He has Oswald making a ridiculous contortion of his left foot in a way that is anatomically impossible and obviously so uncomfortable that no one would stand that way, but that doesn't stop him from presenting it with a straight face...

Stancak has refuted his own claim but, once again, doesn't notice...

This is the type of research Gordon promotes and protects on the Education Forum...

The members know it is ridiculous but they don't say anything...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on November 30, 2019, 08:48:17 PM
Stancak just posted a new image of Oswald as Prayer Man on the Education Forum...

He has Oswald making a ridiculous contortion of his left foot in a way that is anatomically impossible and obviously so uncomfortable that no one would stand that way, but that doesn't stop him from presenting it with a straight face...

Stancak has refuted his own claim but, once again, doesn't notice...

This is the type of research Gordon promotes and protects on the Education Forum...

The members know it is ridiculous but they don't say anything...

Luckily, that's not a problem on this forum. But we certainly still have our hands full, don't we?
Some of the big box stores and amazon are offering great discounts, Monday, on self-awareness ! http://prayerwoman.com 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on November 30, 2019, 11:35:11 PM
Nice try Rick...

I actually agree that Frazier gestures left at 34:06...But he is doing it because he's mixing memories of when Sarah first came out to the landing and stood to his left...

"Mixing memories" you say when Frazier always clearly states left and never says right? Where is your proof of this? Where does Frazier ever say Statnton abruptly moved from her position to the left and moved to a new position farther on the right? Where does Sarah Stanton say that she was in that position at that time? I would like to see it. Why would Stanton leave a perfectly good position to move to a worse position?

You Prayer Man zealots have lowered the quality of JFK assassination evidence analysis...That's because you're begging false conclusions from the evidence and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear...

Rick shows a good example of how the Prayer Man people violate the rules of evidence...They see Frazier point left and that's all they need...However more skilled analyzers realize that Frazier is talking about the time period after Lovelady & Shelley left the steps when Calvery arrived at the steps...


Wrong. You're begging the false conclusions especially when you say Fraizer is gesturing with his right hand. He never does. When a man gestures to his left and says "left" in his video taped interviews that is all I need. You're making assumptions for what you're trying to claim. Where does Frazier say Stanton moved all the way over farther to his right? Where does Sarah Stanton ever say she was in that position? 

Rick is clearly claiming that Stanton is over to Frazier's left at this time because that is the time period that Frazier is referring to no doubt...The reason Rick and the Prayer Man fantasists violate the rules of evidence is because we would have to be able to see Sarah if she was over to Frazier's left...

Where does Frazier say Stanton abruptly moved mid conversation from her position to his left to stand farther away to his right?  Why does Sarah Stanton herself never place herself in that position? Stanton said she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions. How does Sarah end up to Frazier's right when both Frazier and Sarah herself never put herself in that spot?  How are you putting Sarah in PM's spot when Frazier never puts her there? How are you putting Sarah in PM's spot when Sarah herself never stated she was there? How are you getting your facts by putting her in a false location?

However we don't...Darnell is the time period in question and where is Rick Plant's Stanton over to Frazier's left in Darnell?...Rick and Kamp make bizarre claims but then they don't follow them through in the evidence...


Bizarre? How? Explain to me where Frazier said: "Sarah was to my left and then moved all the way over to my right farther away in a worse location". Where is a statement from Sarah Stanton that puts her in that exact prayer man position? She stated she went inside the building after hearing three explosions. Why would Sarah Stanton lie about that?       

Rick Plant never answers for the fact Chris Davidson proved beyond a doubt that Prayer Man had a woman's face in Wiegman...Since we know Pauline Sanders is the tiny face between Lovelady & Shelley in Altgens that means the only other woman had to be Stanton...Again - Rick Plant fails the rules of evidence by not following through or recognizing other proven evidence...Here you have the Greg Parker/Bart Kamp method of research poisoning the quality of research in the community...Those two are not man enough to admit they were wrong...

You mean the blob that nobody can make out? You mean the image that Davidson doesn't fully endorse? That one? What other proven evidence do you have besides your false assumptions and the creation of your own facts?

Rick Plant is telling a brazen non-truth when he says Frazier never gestures to his right...If we could run Frazier's gesture at 34:46 by a public survey and have them recognize that Frazier was specifically talking about his conversation with Stanton at that moment there is absolutely no doubt that his hand goes back and forth between himself and Stanton in the Prayer Man spot at the time of Darnell...That's proof that there is no looking back from, despite the brazen childish denials of the Prayer Man crazies...

Let's do that public survey. Set it up. People will all agree that no gestures to the right were made. Where does Frazier say Stanton abruptly moved from her position to his left all the way over farther to his right? 

Frazier raised his right hand speaking in conversation. He wasn't gesturing she was to his right. Where does Frazier ever state Stanton moved from his left all the way over to his right farther away from him? Frazier never made a statement confirming Stanton moved from her position to his right. Stanton never made any statement about Buell Frazier or being to his left or right. 

This excuse-making doesn't make the wide hips, obese arm and hand, uniform color dress from shoulder to knees, and 5 foot 4 height go away that you still haven't answered for...You once again show a preference for specious see what you want to see logic while ignoring confirming evidence...That is a pure violation of the normal rules of evidence and evidence vetting...It is possible that blonde hair appeared dark in the shadows with Darnell's film equipment...It is possible Sarah had a scarf like the other women...

Are you ignoring what you were told by Stanton's family just so you still can make her the prayer man? Sounds like it to me. You were told that Stanton was between 300-500 pounds with white hair by her family. Why are you ignoring this admission? No it's not possible that white hair can become black in a shadow. Why are you saying "blonde" hair when her family stated "white" hair? Scarf you say? The prayer man has nothing on his head. All I see is black hair with a part and a receding hair line. Where do you see a scarf on prayer man? Please identify a scarf for me.  Prayer Man is not wearing a dress. This is a man's short sleeve shirt. Have you measured the prayer figure to know the figure is exactly 5' 4"? How can you even make a claim like that?

Prayer Man comes up to the chin of Frazier with both feet on the landing platform, counter to Stancak's false claim that he has a foot on the step...Since Frazier is 6 foot 1/2 inch that means Prayer Man is about 5 foot 4 - which is Stanton's exact height...And is too short to be Oswald's 5 foot 9 height.


More assumptions and no facts. Stanton's family said Sarah was 300-500 pounds on that day. Where are the 300-500 pounds on the prayer man? Her family told you that in your interview. Why are you ignoring it?

You've failed here Rick because I have condemning other evidence that Stanton is to Frazier's right and in the Prayer Man spot...Especially Davidson...You and Kamp on the other hand fail on all counts in producing evidence that Stanton is to Frazier's left at the time of Wiegman and Darnell...You can't just ignore that...

Where is this other condemning evidence? Post it. You fail for placing a 300-500 pound woman in a smaller man's body. We never have Frazier commenting Stanton ever moved from his left to stand farther away to his right. We never have Stanton putting herself in that position. That's condemning evidence against your theory. You've never answered as to why Stanton would leave her position to Frazier's left in mid conversation to move farther to his right making it more difficult to communicate. People don't generally do that when they are talking to someone.     



Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on December 01, 2019, 01:58:53 AM

Frazier is bouncing his hand back and forth between himself and Sarah who is to his right in the Prayer Man position at time mark 34:46...

Anyone who denies this isn't being honest...

Rick is going back on ignore...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on December 01, 2019, 03:36:57 AM
Frazier is bouncing his hand back and forth between himself and Sarah who is to his right in the Prayer Man position at time mark 34:46...

Anyone who denies this isn't being honest...

Rick is going back on ignore...
:D

No he isn't. That's another one of your made up fabrications. Frazier never once said Stanton was to his right. Running and hiding again from the questions that defeat your false Sarah Stanton claim?  No answer for why Frazier never stated that Stanton moved to his right? No answer for why Sarah Stanton never places herself in the PM position? You can ignore me all you want. The mere fact you never answer the simple questions for your Stanton claim proves you have a failed claim. A real researcher would stay and answer the questions. You run and hide refusing to answer anything.     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on December 01, 2019, 03:53:24 AM
Sarah Stanton's family told Doyle in his interview that Sarah Stanton had white hair. Brian Doyle falsely said PM was wearing a scarf. There is no scarf on PM.

Sarah Stanton's family told Brian Doyle in his interview that Sarah Stanton was between 300-500 pounds on that day. PM is not 300-500 pounds.

Buell Frazier never once has put Sarah Stanton in the PM position. He always gestures to his left and clearly states "left" verbally.

Sarah Stanton in her FBI statement never even mentions Buell Frazier's name and said she "immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went upstairs to the second floor to look out the window to see what was happening". Doyle ignores this and adds his own claims instead.   

Doyle refuses to answer these simple questions: Why would Sarah Stanton move all the way over to Fraizer's right in a worse position while talking in mid conversation when she was in a good position already?  Why does Sarah Stanton never place herself in that position?  Why would Sarah Stanton lie about going inisde the building?   

Stanton's physical appearance told by her family, Stanton's FBI statement, and Frazier's recollections all disqualify Stanton as PM until Doyle can give some answers.   
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on December 01, 2019, 02:46:53 PM

Stancak once again refutes himself on the Education Forum by posting an image of Oswald as Prayer Man standing in a ridiculously awkward position that no one would stand in with a scrunched left leg and bent foot...

Because the going level of rigor on the James Gordon-overseen forum is limited to "how you treat people" no one chimes-in and tells Stancak he's full of it and only refuting himself...

Instead of giving Stancak what anyone who dared post such garbage would normally receive the EF members stay quiet and don't answer...That way they can avoid admitting they were wrong on Prayer Man while still keeping their dirty ban...

Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton and she has both feet on the landing...

Ask Stancak to do a graphic for Wiegman and you will quickly see why Stancak has been avoiding doing that graphic...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on December 01, 2019, 04:47:27 PM
Stancak once again refutes himself on the Education Forum by posting an image of Oswald as Prayer Man standing in a ridiculously awkward position that no one would stand in with a scrunched left leg and bent foot...

Because the going level of rigor on the James Gordon-overseen forum is limited to "how you treat people" no one chimes-in and tells Stancak he's full of it and only refuting himself...

Instead of giving Stancak what anyone who dared post such garbage would normally receive the EF members stay quiet and don't answer...That way they can avoid admitting they were wrong on Prayer Man while still keeping their dirty ban...

Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton and she has both feet on the landing...

Ask Stancak to do a graphic for Wiegman and you will quickly see why Stancak has been avoiding doing that graphic...

Ask Doyle to do a graphic for HIMSELF.  You can't even post images to back up your claims.  What a total loser+
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 14, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Bart Kamp wrote:

Quote
The world had no idea that these notes existed at all. That was until Feb. 2019 when I visited Malcolm Blunt’s archives and found a folder entitled “Hosty”. This folder at Malcolm Blunt’s archives was filled with more than 200 pages. I only published the one page as it had the most revealing sentence regarding to Oswald’s actions just before the motorcade passed by the T.S.B.D. “Then went outside to watch the P. parade“. That passage reconciles with the handwritten Fritz notes phrase “Out with Bill Shelley, in front”.

Typical of begging-the-point Kamp in his effort to squeeze faulty meaning out of the evidence he ends up proving the opposite when his offering is analyzed correctly...

Kamp admits at the end of his typical Parker-like misconstruing of evidence that "Went outside to watch the P. parade" reconciles with "Out with Bill Shelley in front"...

But what Kamp dishonestly doesn't tell the reader is that Hosty's notes prior to that passage exactly reconciles with the parts of Fritz's and Bookhout's notes where Oswald says the chronology starts with Baker confronting him in the 2nd floor lunch room...

When Hosty's notes are honestly appraised, instead of trying to force Prayer Man like Kamp always does, they chronologically line-up perfectly with Fritz and Bookhout's notes that start in time at the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...

Kamp knows this, he's just dishonestly not telling the readers because he knows it works against what he's trying to fool them with...

All 3 of the sets of notes from Fritz's interrogation of Oswald all line up with starting at the 2nd floor lunch room encounter...

They then go to the 1st floor to eat lunch...

And all 3 end up outside on the front steps many minutes after the last shot...

In no way can the Hosty notes be used to say Oswald was out on the front steps during the shots...In fact any credible, competent analysis of them shows that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots as any correct interpretation of them would indicate...That's why all 3 sets of notes start at the lunch room encounter 75 seconds after the last shot and long after Prayer Man was seen on the steps...

Because the JFK research community practices a boyish bias towards Kamp and Murphy they are uncredibly ignoring the more accurate interpretation of what is going on here in Hosty's notes...

The reason Oswald or the note-takers lied and said Oswald ate lunch on the 1st floor is because Oswald was seen eating lunch by Carolyn Arnold in the 2nd floor lunch room (as well as Sarah Stanton who saw Oswald itching to get back in to that lunch room)(Also ignored by the booby clique)...

Oswald or the note-takers lied about Oswald eating on the 1st floor because they were avoiding showing evidence that Oswald was allowed to eat in the white collar lunch room because Truly knew he was a spook...Also they needed to keep people from realizing Oswald was there during the shots like he told Fritz...

Oswald or the note-takers lied about Oswald going out front to watch the "P. parade" or standing with Shelley because the real truth was Oswald was stopped at the front door by a cop and was cleared by Shelley who then escorted him out the rear loading dock exit...

Kamp is an embarrassing punk who is way over his head in assassination research and won't admit he made a fool out of himself...Despite this obvious evidence Kamp and his booby cronies insist on hijacking the entire community and bullying those who see this correct evidence off the internet...To this day Kamp continues to make a mockery of himself by promoting this already-refuted farce of a theory even though it is clear he's promoting an already-lost cause with everyone afraid to inform him...



 

 
 

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 14, 2020, 07:20:00 PM

Kamp's response:

Quote
Keep on smoking that Sanibel Gold crazy Doyle, you demented lying twat.

Like I said, a degenerate punk who is over his head in JFK research and evidence analysis...

And this t****ish level of input vs the evidence I discussed gets favored access to the Education Forum while I get forcefully removed by an obvious Kamp crony pretending to be a credible moderator named James Gordon...

Probably the most important putting of the final pieces of the puzzle together gets intentionally ignored so Kamp can continue to post an obviously debunked claim...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 15, 2020, 01:35:09 AM
Doyle thinks that if he continues to lie about the evidence and fabricating stories with no basis in reality, that he will somehow turn into a respected researcher.

Don’t be like Doyle.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 15, 2020, 05:19:33 PM

Over on the Education Forum Kamp has linked another one of his garbage Prayer Man articles from his Prayer Man website...

There is not one person in the entire community that has the integrity or common decency to challenge the bully embargo imposed by the Kamp/Murphy mob and point out to Kamp that he's flagrantly, dishonestly ignoring my discovery of Sarah Stanton seeing Oswald waiting to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room out on the 2nd floor staircase landing...This sob Kamp is overwriting history with the aid of his personal bully moderator assistant James Gordon and getting away with ignoring vital evidence that disproves the assertion he is deliberately misleading the community over...There is no doubt that Stanton witnessed an Oswald who told him he intended to go back in to the "break room"...This is proven by the fact Carolyn Arnold witnessed Oswald in that same break room shortly after...Kamp is deliberately ignoring this because he knows it disproves his false interpretation of the Fritz interrogation and there's not one member on that rotten EF forum that has the decency or honesty to stand up and point this out...False evidence is assisted and guided by that ***hole Gordon and brilliantly skilled researchers and their break-through discoveries are censored and removed from the community all so idiots who have no idea what they are doing research-wise can maintain their social status in this farce of an internet research community...

Also - there's no doubt Fritz was telling the Commission Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...The Commission did a full screeching stop after Fritz told them that and forced Fritz back on the official story track...So what we have here is Kamp taking the firm side of the FBI/Commission liars and their false story with the community uncredibly ignoring the correct evidence that exposes it...

Just like my interview with Stanton never happened with Gordon having no accountability for banning the one person with the correct evidence...   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on January 15, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Over on the Education Forum Kamp has linked another one of his garbage Prayer Man articles from his Prayer Man website...
........

Contrast the efforts of Mr. Kamp, with your own. Kamp was committed enough to his research results to obtain a domain name relevant to the subject matter and went about presenting all of his collected evidence and other details at one, independent web destination.

You, OTOH, presented your contrary "research" and other details at destinations across the web in a scatter shot manner, wholly dependent on those named and accused in your immediately prior post, which I did not quote in this reply, owing to the vitriol you elected to inject into it. So you are reduced to complaining about your access at web destinations you chose to present on, but never managed or controlled.

Meanwhile, your inattention, lack of expertise, or simple unwillingness to put your money where you mouth is, left the ideal domain name you could have purchased and arranged hosting services for to do what Kamp has done, be the master of your own destiny, beholden to no one as you go about the storing and presentation of your "forensic linguine," literally "ripe for the taking," and so it was.... http://prayerwoman.com . Man up and quit your incessant whining!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 15, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
There is not one person in the entire community that has the integrity or common decency to challenge the bully embargo imposed by the Kamp/Murphy mob and point out to Kamp that he's flagrantly, dishonestly ignoring my discovery of Sarah Stanton seeing Oswald waiting to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room out on the 2nd floor staircase landing...

Speaking of dishonest...

There is NO evidence that Sarah Stanton saw Oswald waiting to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room out on the 2nd floor staircase landing.  You fabricated it.

Quote
Also - there's no doubt Fritz was telling the Commission Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Bull.  Fritz misspoke and corrected himself immediately after examining his interrogation report.  Every interrogation report has Oswald claiming to be on the first floor.  Your claim is false and highly dishonest.

Quote
Just like my interview with Stanton never happened with Gordon having no accountability for banning the one person with the correct evidence...

 :D

You didn't interview Stanton.  She died in 1992.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 15, 2020, 06:16:12 PM
Contrast the efforts of Mr. Kamp, with your own. Kamp was committed enough to his research results to obtain a domain name relevant to the subject matter and went about presenting all of his collected evidence and other details at one, independent web destination.

Doyle thinks he's entitled to spew his false nonsense at other people's expense.

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 15, 2020, 06:35:15 PM
Contrast the efforts of Mr. Kamp, with your own. Kamp was committed enough to his research results to obtain a domain name relevant to the subject matter and went about presenting all of his collected evidence and other details at one, independent web destination.

You, OTOH, presented your contrary "research" and other details at destinations across the web in a scatter shot manner, wholly dependent on those named and accused in your immediately prior post, which I did not quote in this reply, owing to the vitriol you elected to inject into it. So you are reduced to complaining about your access at web destinations you chose to present on, but never managed or controlled.

Meanwhile, your inattention, lack of expertise, or simple unwillingness to put your money where you mouth is, left the ideal domain name you could have purchased and arranged hosting services for to do what Kamp has done, be the master of your own destiny, beholden to no one as you go about the storing and presentation of your "forensic linguine," literally "ripe for the taking," and so it was.... http://prayerwoman.com . Man up and quit your incessant whining!

You're not answering the point Scully...

First of all don't pretend you are sensitive to vitriol or personal insult because your boy Kamp there is probably one of the worst violators of that standard than anybody...

You are not seriously trying to get away with that domain name diversion instead of answering what I wrote?

You're making excuses...Credible researchers would not ignore such objectively important evidence...They would seek it out for the sake of its objective importance...

The only reason they are ignoring it is because they are acting like children and trying to burn me because I disproved their silly Greg Parker-based Prayer Man nuttery...

You're failing to mention the most important thing here Scully...I've proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton and Kamp is ignoring the proof and promoting a false theory...None of your obvious excuses are good enough and you have failed to answer to the damage it has caused to your own so-called mission to promote correct evidence or the greater community in general...

Credible moderation on the EF would make the true violators answer the facts instead of protecting their friends and their excuses...

 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 15, 2020, 06:43:20 PM
Oswald or the note-takers lied about Oswald eating on the 1st floor because they were avoiding showing evidence that Oswald was allowed to eat in the white collar lunch room because Truly knew he was a spook...Also they needed to keep people from realizing Oswald was there during the shots like he told Fritz...

Is there any actual evidence that the Depository employees weren't allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room, or is this yet another Doyle fabrication?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 16, 2020, 04:14:48 PM

When you make a good point Scully ignores it and doesn't respond...

He then makes a thread saying good arguments and evidence should be responded to...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 16, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
When you make a good point Scully ignores it and doesn't respond...

What "good point" have you EVER made?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on January 16, 2020, 05:51:47 PM
What "good point" have you EVER made?

Give it up, Brian..... (bytheway, I 'PeopleWhizzed' your name....... verrry interestink !!!)  And for that matter, I looked up mine, too !!  I'm a clean machine, Gene !!!
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on January 16, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
When you make a good point Scully ignores it and doesn't respond...

He then makes a thread saying good arguments and evidence should be responded to...

That's exactly what you do Doyle, except you whine and claim you "put me on ignore."   

Doyle still has not responded to how he claims Sarah Stanton got in the PM position when nobody places her there. Her own FBI statement refutes Doyle's made up PW claim. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on March 26, 2020, 03:39:15 AM
Prayer Man comes up to the chin of Frazier with both feet on the landing platform, counter to Stancak's false claim that he has a foot on the step...Since Frazier is 6 foot 1/2 inch that means Prayer Man is about 5 foot 4 - which is Stanton's exact height...And is too short to be Oswald's 5 foot 9 height...

Oswald was an atheist anyway, so he couldn't be prayer man.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 26, 2020, 03:44:15 AM
Oswald was an atheist anyway, so he couldn't be prayer man.

Citation, please.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 01, 2020, 01:24:49 AM
Citation, please.

Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir; it was those interests. My first memory of him is that one afternoon he was sitting on a bucket out in front of a hut, an inverted bucket, with some other Marines. They were discussing religion. I entered the discussion. It was known already in the outfit that I was an atheist.
Immediately somebody pointed out to me that Oswald was also an atheist.
Mr. JENNER. Did they point that out to you in his presence?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What reaction did he have to that?
Mr. THORNLEY. He said, "What do you think of communism?" and I said--
Mr. JENNER. He didn't say anything about having been pointed out as being an atheist?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; he wasn't offended at this at all. He was--it was done in a friendly manner, anyway, and he just said to me the first thing he said to me was with his little grin; he looked at me and he said, "What do you think of communism?" And I replied I didn't think too much of communism, in a favorable sense, and he said, "Well, I think the best religion is communism." And I got the impression at the time that he said this in order to shock. He was playing to the galleries, I felt.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 01, 2020, 03:54:21 PM
Obviously one of the Oswald's in character playing the role of sincere communist for sheep-dipping purposes...

However it is still a troll point being used to sidetrack the thread in to inanity...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 01, 2020, 11:09:03 PM
The thread started out as an inanity.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 04, 2020, 07:00:01 PM
Kamp recently found an interview with Dougherty where Dougherty said in no uncertain terms that he witnessed Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room...Kamp insults the intelligence of the JFK research community by responding to this damning evidence with one of his classic Rube Goldberg excuse making exercises explaining how this additional witness to Oswald being in the lunch room actually indicates that Oswald was Prayer Man...It is quite obvious to credible researchers that Dougherty’s witnessing represents yet another of many witnesses to Oswald being in the lunch room during the shots...Because Kamp enjoys the corrupted protection of Gordon on the Education Forum he is allowed to ignore that this latest witness to Oswald being in the 2nd floor lunch room corroborates Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold’s witnessing of Oswald being in that lunch room...Kamp is allowed to ignore those other witnesses and how they bear on Dougherty’s witnessing and the others assist him with their silence...After all, when the tyrant Gordon orders that my good evidence be rogue-ishly ignored they obey...It is plainly obvious to any credible, thinking researcher that the reason Mrs Reid did not tell the Commission the names of the other ladies in the lunch room with her is because she was deliberately omitting the names of those who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room like Stanton and now its seems Dougherty...Kamp is allowed to ignore that he has been saying for years that Dougherty did not descend to the lower floors until after the shots...The community allows Kamp to get away with the murder of ignoring the obvious...It is quite clear that Dougherty was kept off the record because he had witnessed Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room eating lunch just like Carolyn Arnold...Kamp’s scribblings on this are visibly incoherent because of his need within the text to avoid the majority of the evidence he conspicuously omits...Truly defamed Dougherty as mentally slow in order to discredit him and his potential witnessing...Kamp is too brainwashed by his own theory to admit that the obvious reason Dougherty was diminished in the investigation was because of this witnessing...Kamp is in delusional denial to the obvious fact that Dougherty is just another witness to Oswald being in the lunch room during the shots...Under Gordon’s farcical captaincy the Education Forum isn’t embarrassed by the lack of discussion on this...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Tom Scully on April 04, 2020, 07:11:37 PM
Is there any actual evidence that the Depository employees weren't allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room, or is this yet another Doyle fabrication?

John, Brian must have overlooked your recent question....

Quote
http://web.archive.org/web/20070407094020/http://www.dealeyplazauk.co.uk/Meeting%20Warren%20Caster.htm
Meeting Warren Caster - by Rick Caster

....The meeting
 
On our arrival in Dallas on Monday 5th June 1996, I telephoned David, Warren’s son, to confirm that everything was going to plan.....

....Warren battled his way through the traffic jams and eventually managed to reach home. Like millions of fellow Americans and others throughout the world he then followed the continuous TV coverage as more information and events began to unfold. It soon became apparent that a suspect had been arrested - and he was named as Lee Harvey Oswald. Warren knew him and he told me: “I used to see him frequently, eating his lunch in the lunchroom, but he was a  weird sort of guy and he kept himself to himself.” (The second floor lunchroom was close to Warren’s office.)

The last time Warren could recall having see Oswald was two days before when Oswald had been one of that small group of TSBD employees who were examining Warren’s two newly-purchased rifles before returning to work after their lunch break......
...Warren continued to work at the TSBD for a further eight years, being promoted to the position of Manager of the Southwestern Publishing Company. He eventually moved on to become the Regional Vice-President before retiring in 1983....
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 04, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
It shows how twisted Iacoletti is in his denial trolling that he doesn’t realize it isn’t me who said workers were not allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room it was Kamp and Parker...But I guess when your entire effort is just sloppy denial trolling like Iacoletti does you don’t pay attention to those details...There were two lady secretaries who said they saw Oswald regularly eating in the same booth seat Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating in...Additionally Karen Westbrook made quite clear in her 6th Floor Museum interview that she witnessed Oswald regularly sitting in that same spot by himself...The research community unquestioningly swallowed the crap claim from Greg Parker and Sean Murphy that no blue collar workers were allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room...Kamp is too unsophisticated a researcher to realize Oswald ate in that lunch room because he and the management knew he wasn’t a normal worker but was instead an Intel plant...Ever since those other lady’s witnessing was shown Parker and Kamp dropped that BS claim and haven’t made it since (But never admitted they were wrong or misled the public)...That makes no difference on the Gordon-overseen EF where it is ignored and Kamp is still allowed to post his BS unchallenged...This is not a very credible research community...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 05, 2020, 04:17:35 PM
And now for the actual truth.

- The Dougherty interview excerpt doesn’t say that he saw Oswald at the time of the shots, it says he saw Oswald when he came down for lunch.

- Dougherty testified that he came down at noon.

- There’s no evidence that Stanton ever saw Oswald in the second floor lunchroom.

- There’s no evidence that Reid deliberately omitted anybody’s name.

- There’s no evidence that Dougherty was “kept off the record”.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 05, 2020, 04:26:01 PM
It shows how twisted Iacoletti is in his denial trolling that he doesn’t realize it isn’t me who said workers were not allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room it was Kamp and Parker...

That doesn’t answer the question. What is the evidence Depository employees weren't allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room? You’re the one who made the claim here. You don't get to attack their character day in and day out and then appeal to them when it’s convenient.

Quote
There were two lady secretaries who said they saw Oswald regularly eating in the same booth seat Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating in...

No there weren’t. That’s yet another thing you just made up.

Quote
Additionally Karen Westbrook made quite clear in her 6th Floor Museum interview that she witnessed Oswald regularly sitting in that same spot by himself...

No she didn’t. That’s yet another thing you just made up.

Quote
Oswald ate in that lunch room because he and the management knew he wasn’t a normal worker but was instead an Intel plant...

No evidence for this either, and what does being an “intel plant” have to do with where you eat lunch? What a load of nonsense.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 05, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
Stancak is ignoring what we already discussed and is re-posting his same pseudo-analysis BS with the help of clueless Gordon who seems to think his job is to keep the door open for endless time-wasting BS instead of moderating according to good evidence...

Stancak has posted a computer graphic on the Education Forum showing Pauline Sanders' face in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens and claiming it is Stanton...

We've been through this before and all Stancak's so called "work" is is wishful thinking cartoons where he forges what he wants to be in order to make Oswald Prayer Man and tries to pass it off as advanced computer graphic analysis...

Stancak has no skill what so ever at photo analysis and fails to realize that Pauline Sanders' face that appears between Lovelady and Shelley is actually behind Shelley and in the spot where Sanders is seen in Stancak's other images of Sanders...

Stancak is well aware that what he is posting is garbage because he includes the disclaimer "I know some others might disagree" etc...

In his misleading false graphics Stancak fails to tell the reader that at the exact time he is allegedly showing Stanton to Frazier's left in Altgens Lovelady is on record describing Stanton as being in the Prayer Man spot...In his combined Commission testimony and HSCA tape Lovelady described Shelley to his left (as we see in Altgens), and Frazier to his rear, which leaves the Prayer Man spot to his right the only place to place Stanton, whom he also describes...

In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady clearly indicated that Stanton was over to the far right of the entranceway with him...Hughes shows Lovelady leaning against the west wall at the time Lovelady indicated (when the limousine passed)...So 9 seconds before Altgens Lovelady confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot...

9 seconds after Stanton was confirmed to be all the way to the right of the portal Davidson discovered the undeniable face of a woman on Prayer Man in Wiegman...

The JFK research community fails to inform Stancak that the compression factor on Altgen's lens was high and made objects appear closer to each other on the depth scale than they were...

The little eyes and forehead seen in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens are not in between Lovelady and Shelley as Stancak incompetently portrays...That little face is back behind Shelley in the exact spot that Stancak's other Darnell image places Pauline Sanders...So in effect Stancak is pointing-out Pauline Sanders as being Stanton and is ignoring all the other evidence that refutes it...

For anyone with common sense, as is usual, when the Prayer Man believers claims are competently analyzed they actually prove Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The wit and wisdom of one James Gordon sees fit to ban and censor those who possess the correct evidence and go out of his way to make sure this laughable garbage is protected and given a safe place to deceive...

We also have damning new evidence of Dougherty witnessing Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room that is going undiscussed on that Prayer Man-pirated board that Gordon and the members are not ashamed of the delinquent lack of honest discussion over...

Still waiting for Stancak to do a computer graphic of Wiegman which will automatically show that Prayer Man could not have had his foot on the step (which is why Stancak avoided it)...

 



Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 05, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Stancak is ignoring what we already discussed and is re-posting his same pseudo-analysis BS

Says the guy who has posted his same Sarah Stanton pseudo-analysis BS thousands of times.

Quote
Stancak has posted a computer graphic on the Education Forum showing Pauline Sanders' face in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens and claiming it is Stanton...

So what? You claim that Prayerman is Stanton without so much as a computer graphic, except for the one Duncan posted that looks nothing like Stanton.

Quote
We've been through this before and all Stancak's so called "work" is is wishful thinking cartoons where he forges what he wants to be in order to make Oswald Prayer Man and tries to pass it off as advanced computer graphic analysis...

Says the guy who calls it a “fact” that photo experts will someday confirm what he believes.

Quote
Stancak has no skill what so ever at photo analysis and fails to realize that Pauline Sanders' face that appears between Lovelady and Shelley is actually behind Shelley and in the spot where Sanders is seen in Stancak's other images of Sanders...

Says the guy who doesn’t even have the skills to post photos, much less analyze them.

Quote
In his misleading false graphics Stancak fails to tell the reader that at the exact time he is allegedly showing Stanton to Frazier's left in Altgens Lovelady is on record describing Stanton as being in the Prayer Man spot...

Lovelady isn’t on record saying that. You made it up.

Quote
In his combined Commission testimony and HSCA tape Lovelady described Shelley to his left (as we see in Altgens),

Nope. He describes Shelley to his left in neither place.

Quote
and Frazier to his rear,

Nope. He describes Frazier to his rear in neither place.

Quote
which leaves the Prayer Man spot to his right the only place to place Stanton,

Nope. There are several spots that could be described as “next to” or “with” besides those two.

Quote
In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady clearly indicated that Stanton was over to the far right of the entranceway with him...

No he didn’t. You just made it up. Furthermore, you’ve accused the FBI of falsifying statements, so you don’t get to use them.

Quote
Hughes shows Lovelady leaning against the west wall at the time Lovelady indicated (when the limousine passed)...So 9 seconds before Altgens Lovelady confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot...

Hughes doesn’t show anybody leaning against anything, and it doesn’t show prayerman at all.

Quote
9 seconds after Stanton was confirmed to be all the way to the right of the portal Davidson discovered the undeniable face of a woman on Prayer Man in Wiegman...

Davidson said he didn’t prove anything.

Quote
The little eyes and forehead seen in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens are not in between Lovelady and Shelley as Stancak incompetently portrays...

What “little eyes and forehead”?

Quote
We also have damning new evidence of Dougherty witnessing Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room

There’s nothing “damning” about that. In this little interview snippet, Dougherty says that he saw Oswald when he went down for lunch. Dougherty testified that he went down for lunch at noon.

Quote
Still waiting for Stancak to do a computer graphic of Wiegman which will automatically show that Prayer Man could not have had his foot on the step (which is why Stancak avoided it)...

Why don’t you don’t do your own graphics that will support your empty claims, instead of just whining?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 06, 2020, 01:00:15 PM
In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady clearly indicated that Stanton was over to the far right of the entranceway with him...Hughes shows Lovelady leaning against the west wall at the time Lovelady indicated (when the limousine passed)...So 9 seconds before Altgens Lovelady confirmed Stanton was in the Prayer Man spot...

In her 1963 and 1964 FBI statement, Sarah Stanton clearly stated that she immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went up the elevator to the second floor to look out the window to see what was happening. So, Sarah Stanton clearly stated that she wasn't in the Prayer Man spot. Brian Doyle refuses to believe Sarah Stanton's own FBI statement where he says "the FBI changed her words", but somehow Doyle manages to use Lovelady's FBI statement and fabricates his words. Brian Doyle isn't allowed to use FBI statements because he says they changed what the witnesses said. Doyle doesn't get to pick and choose which FBI statement to use for his failed PW theory.           

9 seconds after Stanton was confirmed to be all the way to the right of the portal Davidson discovered the undeniable face of a woman on Prayer Man in Wiegman...

Another fabrication from Brian Doyle. Davidson did not discover the "undeniable face of a woman". What appeared was a heavily distorted smeared image of what resembles the face of an unidentified Muppet. Even Davidson never 100% confirmed it is a woman. Doyle takes everything out of context for these absurd claims of his.     
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 06, 2020, 06:01:12 PM
Bart Kamp wrote:

Quote
Further down in that same interview Dougherty claims that Oswald was eating his lunch in the second floor lunch room, which isn’t true at all. If he sees Oswald in the second floor lunch room after he has finished his lunch (what was the reason for him to go to the second fl lunch room after his lunch in the first place when he was going for the sixth).
But then changes his mind to  seeing him on two while Dougherty went downstairs. Quite a changeover. But that only says he sees him on the second floor, where Oswald went to get his coke for his lunch.
If Oswald at that time was eating his lunch n the second floor then he would have been spotted by many office workers. Yet no one did.
 
Q:         Did anybody tell you, for instance, you like Oswald probably if he was up on the sixth floor headed truly downstairs too, cause someone saw him down there on second floor, pretty fast
JD:       Yes, they had to, but I don’t know who it was.
Q:         You don’t know what?
JD:       I don’t know who it was, who saw him come down.
Q:         Did you see him at all that day do you remember?
JD:       Well, just downstairs in the lunch room, was about all.
Q:         But that was when you were having lunch right?
JD:       Yes, uh huh.
Q:         And he was having lunch in there too?
JD:       No, I was downstairs having lunch and he was having lunch upstairs on two.
Q:         Oh he had lunch on two? And you had lunch on one?
JD:       Yes.
Q:         And did you see him have lunch before you had it or after?
JD:       That was after.
Q:         You had your lunch first and then you saw him at lunch?
JD:       Well, I come down and I saw him on two see and then I went downstairs and had mine.
Q:         And he was already in eating?
JD:       Yes uh huh.

Here you have Kamp coming in and pronouncing to the public that Dougherty's witnessing of Oswald in the lunch room "Isn't true at all"...Why?...Simply because Kamp says so in order to desperately preserve his debunked Prayer Man claim...

This moronic dictation is typical of Greg Parker's forum that is an evidence hacker's boiler room where Greg is going to dig in to the evidence and tell you what's what...It is incredible that otherwise intelligent researchers are dumb enough to allow Parker/Kamp and their crony moderators to get away with that and not see it for what it is...

The reason Kamp's writing in the above post is visibly incoherent is because he's struggling with the fact he knows this evidence is the final nail in the coffin for the Prayer Man theory...The trauma of this realization takes up all of Kamp's energy so when he gets to typing his excuses he doesn't have enough strength to make up his lies convincingly...

The current internet JFK research community is criminal...They know this destroys the Prayer Man theory once and for all so having banned all the people who point this out they grant themselves the privilege of ignoring it...They are not embarrassed by the fact that there is no discussion of this on the Education Forum...Under Kamp, DiEugenio, and Gordon the Education Forum can now be accurately described as a place that avoids discussing correct evidence...

What Kamp and the rest are avoiding discussing is Kamp himself has been posting for years that Dougherty came down late around the time of the shooting...What Kamp avoids in his incoherent mumblings above is the fact he hasn't reconciled his own claims with this damning new evidence...The reason Kamp offers that deficient response is because he knows he can't explain Dougherty seeing Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room just like Arnold, Baker, and Truly did...He's knows it is damning corroboration so he deals with it in arrogant Parker style with a hand wave...

At the very minimum Dougherty came down immediately after Baker & Truly went upstairs...So at the very least this would be proof that the 2nd floor lunch room encounter was real...Hence the reason for Kamp's information-short response...

If Dougherty came down before Baker & Truly then he joined Carolyn Arnold in seeing Oswald set-up and eating in the same booth seat several other Depository secretaries stated Oswald regularly ate lunch in...This is game, set, and match and Kamp knows it...

Being an arrogant liar Kamp is hoping you don't notice that Dougherty's clearly specific statement that "Oswald was up having lunch on two" directly corroborates Carolyn Arnold whom Kamp took the side of FBI against and accused of lying...It also corroborates Will Fritz who said directly that Oswald told him he was having lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...

Yes Bart - if Oswald was in there before 12:20 he would have been seen by Mrs Reid and the other ladies...So what does that tell you?...It tells you that Dougherty's witnessing happened after that at the same time Kamp himself has Dougherty descending from the upper floors...Kamp (and his practiced censorship) grant themselves the right to ignore that Sarah Stanton witnessed the timing of all this when she saw Oswald itching to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room... 

"No one spotted Oswald" - Except for Stanton, Carolyn Arnold, Dougherty, and Baker, & Truly of course, all of whom Kamp pronounces are either lying or got their story wrong...What a coincidence that they all spotted Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room (or about to)...

We'll see if that exemplary author and famous researcher Jim DiEugenio covers this in one of his Kennedy's And King articles...

When I tried to make the members of Moricet's Facebook photo page answer this Moricet made Iacoletti moderator and I was promptly banned before Iacoletti was forced to account for this...     
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on April 06, 2020, 06:38:34 PM
John, Brian must have overlooked your recent question....

As stated before, Tom....... this shall never end.  ('Waiting for Godot' by Sammy or 'My Song' by Pinder'?  Your choice, master.  Thou art the potter, I am the clay (Isaiah 64:8)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 07, 2020, 06:53:06 PM

When the research community ignores this damning proof of Dougherty seeing Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room it forfeits on credibility and concedes the Prayer Man issue...

No one on the Education Forum is embarrassed about the uncredible lack of discussion of this important evidence...

The trolls on Kamp's website don't cut and paste it because they know it destroys them...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 07, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
When I tried to make the members of Moricet's Facebook photo page answer this Moricet made Iacoletti moderator and I was promptly banned before Iacoletti was forced to account for this...     

Doyle got himself banned from yet another discussion group because he simply cannot behave in a civil manner. What a surprise.

Account for what? In that interview snippet, Dougherty says he “came down and saw him on two”. Dougherty testified that he came down for lunch at noon. If Oswald was there eating lunch at noon, what do you think that proves exactly?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 08, 2020, 11:38:41 PM

The JFK research community is trying to ignore Kamp's discovery of Dougherty saying he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...

There is no discussion anywhere of this because the Prayer Man hijackers know it destroys the Prayer Man theory so they stay quiet on their Prayer Man dominated websites and harvest the ill reward of censorship...

There's no discussion of what possible time this could have occurred because they are well aware the only possible time would be around the time of the shots or shortly after...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 08, 2020, 11:42:38 PM
The JFK research community is trying to ignore Kamp's discovery of Dougherty saying he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...

There is no discussion anywhere of this because the Prayer Man hijackers know it destroys the Prayer Man theory

And now for the truth:

It tells you absolutely nothing about who prayerman is or is not.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 09, 2020, 10:36:17 AM
The JFK research community is trying to ignore Kamp's discovery of Dougherty saying he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...

There is no discussion anywhere of this because the Prayer Man hijackers know it destroys the Prayer Man theory so they stay quiet on their Prayer Man dominated websites and harvest the ill reward of censorship...

Funny how Doyle wants to have a discussion on the movements of Oswald but refuses to discuss the "movements" of Sarah Stanton where Doyle claims she moved to the Prayer Man position from the left side of Frazier.

p.s. Buell Frazier never stated Stanton moved from his left side over to the right side Prayer Man position. Buell Frazier was unable to identify the Prayer Man when he was shown the photograph. This proves Prayer Man is not Sarah Stanton. 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 09, 2020, 05:41:46 PM
Dougherty's Commission testimony:

Quote
Mr. BALL - Did you see him again that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; just one more time.
Mr. BALL - Where was that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That was on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - On the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - About what time of day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was about 11 o'clock-that was the last time I saw him.
Mr. BALL - What was he doing up there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, as far as I could tell, he was getting some stock---as far as I could tell.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was getting some stock also.
Mr. BALL - And were there some other workmen up there at the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Not that I know of.
Mr. BALL - Well, do you remember Shelley, Dan Arce, Bonnie Williams, Bill Lovelady, and Charlie Givens who were working up there that morning---laying floor on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes; they were laying floor---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And were they there at the time you were there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes, sir; they were there---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Is that the same time you saw Oswald?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir; just about that time.
Mr. BALL - And how long were you on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, just long enough to get some stock.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I went to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - What did you do then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I went to the fifth floor to get some stock also on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Then, just about that time---I thought I heard---
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you go to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I went back downstairs to eat lunch---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, it was 12 o'clock.
Mr. BALL - When you talked to the FBI men, I've got a statement here dated the 19th of December 1963, a statement from Special Agent William O. Johnson, and he reports that you told him that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald at approximately 8 a.m. when he, Oswald, arrived.

It is quite clear Dougherty has been gotten to and is lying...He has to be lying because his statement to Gill Toff that he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room directly contradicts what Dougherty is telling the Commission...Once again - Kamp knows he's in trouble so he tries his little boy hiding from the truth routine and tries to get away with ignoring it...But no credible researcher would dare ignore this and dare show their face to the community and claim they were credible...Jim D escoriates Lifton but doesn't say a word to his favorite punk boy Kamp...

You can see Dougherty giving this away in his linguistic forensics when he says "I went back down"...Dougherty gives the game away here because what he is signaling there is he did indeed eat lunch at 12 but then went back upstairs...It is when Dougherty went "back down" he's talking about the second trip back downstairs where he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room since we know Oswald wasn't in the 2nd floor lunch room at noon...Oswald could not have been in the second floor lunch room at noon for four reasons...The first being that the lady secretaries would have seen him...The second being that Carolyn Arnold saw him in there at 12:25 and that would have meant Oswald was eating lunch for a half hour which is too long...The third being that other workers said Oswald stayed behind upstairs when they went down at noon...And the fourth being that Sarah Stanton saw Oswald raring to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room on the staircase landing...Kamp and the rest of the dishonest ****s who call themselves the research community moronically ask you to ignore all this while they pretend it doesn't exist and they ignore it...No credible researcher would ever dare get away with that but what we are really talking about is dishonest schoolboys reducing this to a personal level and holding a grudge against someone who refuted them...Kamp pretends he is getting away with saying Dougherty went downstairs upon hearing the shots and saying Dougherty went down at noon at the same time...This is where the schoolboys who call themselves the current research community exert their intentional ignoring the hardest because they know they can't touch this without proving themselves wrong...Nobody is brave enough to ask Jim why he stays quiet...

When this touchy subject comes up Ball makes sure Dougherty remembers the FBI and reminds him immediately after Dougherty says "Oh, it was 12 o'clock"...Ball is making Dougherty remember the FBI when giving the time of going down to eat lunch...

Quote
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - That you saw Oswald again at approximately 11 a.m. on the sixth floor?.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - But you didn't see him again after that, is that your testimony?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Is that the truth?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - And it also says, this report from Mr. Johnson, states that you told him that just prior to 12 noon you and five other men were working on the sixth floor. Were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; we were working on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was getting some stock off of the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - You weren't helping the men lay floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - To what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - The first floor.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well---used the elevator.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down alone or with someone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I went down alone.
Mr. BALL - Where did you eat your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - In the domino room.
Mr. BALL - Now, what time did you go back to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, at 12:30.

 Dougherty exposes himself once more when he says he went downstairs alone...He also exposes himself when he gives the ridiculous time of 12:30 for returning to work...We know he's lying because he couldn't have gone back upstairs at that time...

Also if Dougherty was in the Domino Room prior to 12:30 Oswald would have mentioned him along with Jarman and Norman...This reinforces Oswald seeing the two negro workers coming up in the elevators and not being in the actual Domino Room when he witnessed them...Kamp remains moronically and dishonestly mute on this because he knows it works against him...In any case this does bring Dougherty in the vicinity of the 2nd floor lunch room around the time of Carolyn Arnold's witnessing...







Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 09, 2020, 06:01:42 PM
It is quite clear Dougherty has been gotten to and is lying...He has to be lying because his statement to Gill Toff that he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room directly contradicts what Oswald is telling the Commission...

Oswald didn't tell the Commission anything.  He was dead.

Quote
You can see Dougherty giving this away in his linguistic forensics when he says "I went back down"...

Here we go again with Doyle's made-up "linguistic forensics".   ::)

Quote
Dougherty gives the game away here because what he is signaling there is he did indeed eat lunch at 12 but then went back upstairs...It is when Dougherty went "back down" he's talking about the second trip back downstairs where he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room since we know Oswald wasn't in the 2nd floor lunch room at noon...

We don't know anything of the kind.

Quote
Oswald could not have been in the second floor lunch room at noon for four reasons...The first being that the lady secretaries would have seen him...

Who says the "lady secretaries" were all in there at noon?

Quote
The second being that Carolyn Arnold saw him in there at 12:25 and that would have meant Oswald was eating lunch for a half hour which is too long...

Says who?

Quote
The third being that other workers said Oswald stayed behind upstairs when they went down at noon...

None of the other workers said they went down at noon.

Quote
And the fourth being that Sarah Stanton saw Oswald raring to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room on the staircase landing...

Except you just made that up.  4 falsehoods and fabrications all in a row this time.  You're up to 673 now.

Quote
Also if Dougherty was in the Domino Room prior to 12:30 Oswald would have mentioned him along with Jarman and Norman...This reinforces Oswald seeing the two negro workers coming up in the elevators and not being in the actual Domino Room when he witnessed them...

Huh?  How the hell would Oswald have seen them coming up the elevators from the 2nd floor lunchroom?

Quote
Kamp remains moronically and dishonestly mute on this because he knows it works against him...In any case this does bring Dougherty in the vicinity of the 2nd floor lunch room around the time of Carolyn Arnold's witnessing...

"Around the time".  LOL.  Dougherty said he went down at noon.  All the rest is pure Doyle fabrication.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 09, 2020, 06:16:47 PM
Dougherty's Commission Testimony:

Quote
Mr. BALL - Did you know that the President was going to pass in a motorcade that noon?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, they said something about it.
Mr. BALL - Did you intend to go out and watch him?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I would have loved to have went out and watched him but the steps were so crowded---there was no way in the world I could get out there.
Mr. BALL - Did you take a look at it---did you go out and take a look at it, or didn't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well---no, sir.
Mr. BALL - Now, you were on the first floor in the domino room when you finished your lunch, didn't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And did you stay there any length of time after you finished your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir---just a short length of time.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then, I went back to work.
Mr. BALL - And where did you go to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let me see---oh, up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - Did you go to the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - About what time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - At about 12:40---it was about 12:40.
Mr. BALL - Had you heard any shots before that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---I heard one---it sounded like a backfire.
Mr. BALL - Where were you when you heard that shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - You were on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Now, When you left your lunch, did you go to the fifth floor or the sixth floor to go back to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I went on the fifth floor when I was getting ready to go down to eat lunch.
Mr. BALL - Yes; and then what happened?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, at that time--I was about 10 feet away---
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you hear the shots before or after you had your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Before---before I ate my lunch.
Mr. BALL - You heard shots before you ate your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see---yes, I believe I did.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, you remember having your lunch, do you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Do you remember after you had your lunch, you went back to work that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - When you talked on the day this accident happened, on the 22d of November 1963, in a statement made to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and, Mr. Dougherty, you told them you went down to the first floor to eat your lunch?

Dougherty slips up here and mentions the steps being crowded...Ball catches it and detects that in order for Dougherty to know the steps were crowded he would have to have seen them...Dougherty realizes his mistake and says no he didn't go out there...Ball backs off and doesn't pursue it and gets Dougherty back in to the Domino Room...

Dougherty screws up again and tells Ball he went back upstairs at 12:40...Ball pursues him and asks Dougherty if he heard any shots before 12:40...Dougherty answers yes but then says he was on the 5th floor when he heard the shot before 12:40...But he can't hear the shot on the 5th floor and not have come up from the Domino Room until 12:40...Dougherty compounds this screw up by saying he heard the shot before he ate his lunch...Obviously Dougherty can't keep his story straight because he's lying...

Look at what Ball does here...He knows Dougherty has screwed up big time but instead of nailing Dougherty on it and pursuing it like any good lawyer would he gets away from it and once again inserts another reminder about FBI...

In light of the Gill Toff interview it is very possible that Dougherty was about to say he was about 10 feet away from Oswald when he saw him in the 2nd floor lunch room...Ball quickly interjects "Wait a minute!" and stops him...


Quote
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - And that you went back to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And you told him on the 19th day of December, Mr. Johnson, that you went back to work on the sixth floor, and as soon as you arrived on the sixth floor, you went down to the fifth floor to get some stock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir; that's right.
Mr. BALL - And while you were on the fifth floor, you heard a loud noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right---it sounded like a car backfiring.
Mr. BALL - And did you hear more than one loud explosion or noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No; that was the only one I heard.
Mr. BALL - You only heard one?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And where did it sound like it came from?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It sounded like it came from overhead somewhere.
Mr. BALL - From overhead?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - How did you get to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Elevator.
Mr. BALL - You were on the fifth floor when you heard this, were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you take?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you see, there's one on this side and one on this side the one on this side is the one I took.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side," doesn't mean much when it's written down.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I know it.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me whether it was the east side or the west side elevator?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - East side.
Mr. BALL - Is it the one that you punch a button on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Or the one that you use a control on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It's the one you push a button on.
Mr. BALL - The one you push a button on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - I believe that is the west side, isn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I believe it is.
Mr. BALL - Now, that's the one you took up?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you take that---to what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I took it up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when I got through getting stock off of the sixth floor, I came back down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - What did you do on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I got some stock.
Mr. BALL - Then what happened then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes."
Mr. BALL - You didn't say--did you say, 'Has the President been shot?"---you told the FBI agent that you went down to the first floor and you saw a man named Eddie Piper and asked him if he heard a loud noise.

Here's where we hit pay dirt and see Ball trying to get Dougherty back on the track of the pre-scripted story...It is clear from this statement that Dougherty ate lunch prior to going back upstairs...Ball has Dougherty finished with lunch and back upstairs when he hears the shots...Well there we are...The only way this is possible is if Dougherty goes back upstairs prior to 12:30...   

Dougherty screws up again when he tells Ball "This is the one [elevator] I took down"...You see this links up with Dougherty telling FBI that when he heard the shot he went downstairs and asked Eddie Piper if he heard a loud noise...So what we are seeing here is two clearly defined separate trips downstairs that Kamp plays dumb and doesn't put together...This is the second trip that Kamp mentions on his Prayer Man website of Dougherty going downstairs when he hears the shot...But it is clearly a second trip after having gone down to eat lunch and came back upstairs afterwards as he clearly elaborated to Ball...Ball, of course, stays clear of these damning contradictions because, like Kamp, he knows where they will lead if he honestly pursues them...

The silence is deafening on Kamp's website...And how dare Gordon show his face and offer himself as a credible moderator after helping the evidence scofflaws avoid this damning proof...

Look at the creeps avoiding the obvious that Dougherty saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room either when he went back upstairs at 12:25 or when he went back downstairs after the shots...We know Dougherty is covering this up with Ball because he lied and told Ball the last time he saw Oswald was at 11am upstairs...The pattern of this deception is more than clear in Dougherty's Commission testimony...

If Dougherty saw Oswald when he went back downstairs then that proves the context of the Fritz interrogation, as well as Bookhout's and Hosty's notes, and proves Oswald did not go downstairs to the 1st floor after getting his soda...And therefore the timing for Oswald being out front with Shelley during the shots is impossible...It proves the lunch room encounter was real too which is why that squirming weasel Kamp avoids it...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 09, 2020, 06:33:06 PM
None of Doyle's tortuous hoop-jumping does a single thing to show that Dougherty saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom at 12:25 or around the time of the shots at all.  It's all fabrication and speculation.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 10, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
And the fourth being that Sarah Stanton saw Oswald raring to go back in to the 2nd floor lunch room on the staircase landing...Kamp and the rest of the dishonest ****s who call themselves the research community moronically ask you to ignore all this while they pretend it doesn't exist and they ignore it...

Credible researchers ignore it because there isn't any truth to it. There's no evidence that Stanton saw Oswald anywhere. 

No credible researcher would ever dare get away with that but what we are really talking about is dishonest schoolboys reducing this to a personal level and holding a grudge against someone who refuted them...

Yawn! You're still holding the grudge. Who's always whining in every thread about the EF, Kamp, etc. in endeless word salad posts? You!     

I've never seen you refute anybody except your own false claims that you fabricate. 
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 10, 2020, 09:05:38 PM
Doughtery's Commission Testimony:

Quote
Mr. BALL - And how long were you on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, just long enough to get some stock.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I went to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - What did you do then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I went to the fifth floor to get some stock also on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Then, just about that time---I thought I heard---
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you go to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I went back downstairs to eat lunch---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, it was 12 o'clock.
Mr. BALL - When you talked to the FBI men, I've got a statement here dated the 19th of December 1963, a statement from Special Agent William O. Johnson, and he reports that you told him that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald at approximately 8 a.m. when he, Oswald, arrived.


If you are sharp you'll see serious evidence of a coached story appearing in Dougherty's Commission Interview...

In the above Ball is asking Dougherty where he was and what he was doing when Kennedy was assassinated...The context of Dougherty's answer is that he saw the floor crew up there doing their work before 12 noon but he was not with them...It is important to note that Ball has established with Dougherty that Dougherty broke off his work on the 5th floor and went down to eat lunch in the Domino Room at 12 noon...With this in mind Dougherty starts to tell Ball that when he was on the 5th floor, right before going down to lunch, he heard a shot: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Then, just about that time---I thought I heard---"...Ball abruptly stops him from saying it because he knows Dougherty is about to create timing conflicts he doesn't want to sort out the details of:  "Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you go to lunch?"...

The mistake Dougherty almost made was he was about to tie in one part of the coached story with another that was out of context as far as timing...Dougherty forgot he was talking about breaking off and going down for lunch at 12 noon and almost inserted hearing the shot before he went down...Ball saw what was coming and cut him off...Dougherty screwed up and forgot he was about to detail a shot that went off a half hour after the time period he was talking about...Ball then quickly switches the subject in order to escape this obvious gaffe...


Quote
Mr. BALL - Now, you were on the first floor in the domino room when you finished your lunch, didn't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And did you stay there any length of time after you finished your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir---just a short length of time.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then, I went back to work.
Mr. BALL - And where did you go to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let me see---oh, up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - Did you go to the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - About what time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - At about 12:40---it was about 12:40.
Mr. BALL - Had you heard any shots before that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---I heard one---it sounded like a backfire.
Mr. BALL - Where were you when you heard that shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - You were on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Now, When you left your lunch, did you go to the fifth floor or the sixth floor to go back to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I went on the fifth floor when I was getting ready to go down to eat lunch.
Mr. BALL - Yes; and then what happened?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, at that time--I was about 10 feet away---
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you hear the shots before or after you had your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Before---before I ate my lunch.
Mr. BALL - You heard shots before you ate your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see---yes, I believe I did.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, you remember having your lunch, do you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Do you remember after you had your lunch, you went back to work that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - When you talked on the day this accident happened, on the 22d of November 1963, in a statement made to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and, Mr. Dougherty, you told them you went down to the first floor to eat your lunch?


This follow-up of the previous passage exposes the problem even more clearly when Dougherty details that he ate lunch in the Domino Room and then went back upstairs at 12:40...Ball asks Dougherty if he heard any shots before going back up to the 6th floor at 12:40 and Dougherty tells him he did...Ball asks Dougherty where he was when he heard that shot and Dougherty tells him he was on the 5th floor (finishing what he was about to say in the previous passage when Ball cut him off)...The obvious problem with this is Dougherty can't be eating lunch in the Domino Room until 12:40 and then hear the shot on the 5th floor like he told Ball...

Here is where we unlock the evidence that Dougherty has been coached because he screws up and tries to cycle in his hearing the shot on the 5th floor before going down to eat lunch - only Dougherty forgets he already established he went down from the 5th floor to the Domino Room to eat lunch at 12 noon - a half hour before the shot...Most likely Dougherty is about to say he was 10 feet from the elevator on the 5th floor when he heard the shot:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, at that time--I was about 10 feet away---"...Ball knows what is coming and cuts Dougherty off again: "Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you hear the shots before or after you had your lunch?"...Dougherty responds: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Before---before I ate my lunch." (Dougherty has totally screwed up at this point because he fails to realize he just placed hearing the shot at 12 noon according to his previous testimony)...Ball counters: "Mr. BALL - You heard shots before you ate your lunch?"...Dougherty then realizes he needs to keep within the pre-arranged story so he backs off and doesn't commit: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see---yes, I believe I did."...

Ball can work with this so he backtracks in order to control the damage: "Mr. BALL - Well, now, you remember having your lunch, do you?"...Sensing what is expected of him Dougherty complies and allows himself to be led:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes."...Ball then guides Dougherty back on to the pre-established story:  "Mr. BALL - Do you remember after you had your lunch, you went back to work that day?"... Dougherty complies again:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes."...  Ball then avoids the whole issue by citing Dougherty's claim that he ate lunch in the Domino Room in a manner that is divorced from the timing problem he is correcting:  "Mr. BALL - When you talked on the day this accident happened, on the 22d of November 1963, in a statement made to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and, Mr. Dougherty, you told them you went down to the first floor to eat your lunch?"...

To summarize, Dougherty has been coached to avoid telling the Commission what he told Toff...Obviously if Dougherty told Toff he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room he told FBI as well...It is quite apparent that the reason Dougherty is screwing up the context of his witnessing is because he's having trouble remembering and sticking to the script...It is quite easy to conclude from Dougherty's statement that he went down to the Domino Room at noon and ate his lunch...In order to be on the 5th floor when he heard the shot he would have to have gone back upstairs from the Domino Room sometime around 12:25...This would have been the most likely time Dougherty saw Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room...

What Ball is obviously helping conceal, and guiding the testimony to keep Dougherty from mentioning, is the fact that after Dougherty went back upstairs after eating lunch he then heard the shot while on the 5th floor and went back downstairs to see what it was... "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes." "...This passage reveals the source of the timing problem and clearly illustrates that Dougherty went back downstairs a second time...(Dougherty may have been on the 6th floor and was told to say 5th)...Not only would Dougherty be in the time window for Oswald running down the stairs with this timing but he would also be the the time window for Baker & Truly...

It is more than obvious that Ball is avoiding sorting out the timing problem that centers around what time exactly Dougherty left the Domino Room to go back upstairs and when exactly he heard the shot...The reason for this is Ball is avoiding having the tongue-slipping Dougherty get in to a conversation that involves a time period that is too close to the time Dougherty saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...Ball just drops it in order to keep Dougherty from making another gaffe that would cause further looking in to this highly incriminating moment that Dougherty would later reveal to Toff...

Both the Education Forum and Warren Commissioner Ball show equal fear and silence over this evidence...

   

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 11, 2020, 12:08:51 AM
"No one spotted Oswald" - Except for Stanton, Carolyn Arnold, Dougherty, and Baker, & Truly of course, all of whom Kamp pronounces are either lying or got their story wrong...What a coincidence that they all spotted Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room (or about to)... 

When did Stanton say she saw Oswald? I haven't seen any statement by her saying that.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 11, 2020, 12:33:57 AM
Doughtery's Commission Testimony:

If you are sharp you'll see serious evidence of a coached story appearing in Dougherty's Commission Interview...

In the above Ball is asking Dougherty where he was and what he was doing when Kennedy was assassinated...The context of Dougherty's answer is that he saw the floor crew up there doing their work before 12 noon but he was not with them...It is important to note that Ball has established with Dougherty that Dougherty broke off his work on the 5th floor and went down to eat lunch in the Domino Room at 12 noon...With this in mind Dougherty starts to tell Ball that when he was on the 5th floor, right before going down to lunch, he heard a shot: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Then, just about that time---I thought I heard---"...Ball abruptly stops him from saying it because he knows Dougherty is about to create timing conflicts he doesn't want to sort out the details of:  "Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you go to lunch?"...

The mistake Dougherty almost made was he was about to tie in one part of the coached story with another that was out of context as far as timing...Dougherty forgot he was talking about breaking off and going down for lunch at 12 noon and almost inserted hearing the shot before he went down...Ball saw what was coming and cut him off...Dougherty screwed up and forgot he was about to detail a shot that went off a half hour after the time period he was talking about...Ball then quickly switches the subject in order to escape this obvious gaffe...

Doyle is just speculating with his own opinion. This is not evidence.

This follow-up of the previous passage exposes the problem even more clearly when Dougherty details that he ate lunch in the Domino Room and then went back upstairs at 12:40...Ball asks Dougherty if he heard any shots before going back up to the 6th floor at 12:40 and Dougherty tells him he did...Ball asks Dougherty where he was when he heard that shot and Dougherty tells him he was on the 5th floor (finishing what he was about to say in the previous passage when Ball cut him off)...The obvious problem with this is Dougherty can't be eating lunch in the Domino Room until 12:40 and then hear the shot on the 5th floor like he told Ball...

Here is where we unlock the evidence that Dougherty has been coached because he screws up and tries to cycle in his hearing the shot on the 5th floor before going down to eat lunch - only Dougherty forgets he already established he went down from the 5th floor to the Domino Room to eat lunch at 12 noon - a half hour before the shot...Most likely Dougherty is about to say he was 10 feet from the elevator on the 5th floor when he heard the shot:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, at that time--I was about 10 feet away---"...Ball knows what is coming and cuts Dougherty off again: "Mr. BALL - Wait a minute---did you hear the shots before or after you had your lunch?"...Dougherty responds: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Before---before I ate my lunch." (Dougherty has totally screwed up at this point because he fails to realize he just placed hearing the shot at 12 noon according to his previous testimony)...Ball counters: "Mr. BALL - You heard shots before you ate your lunch?"...Dougherty then realizes he needs to keep within the pre-arranged story so he backs off and doesn't commit: "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see---yes, I believe I did."...

Ball can work with this so he backtracks in order to control the damage: "Mr. BALL - Well, now, you remember having your lunch, do you?"...Sensing what is expected of him Dougherty complies and allows himself to be led:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes."...Ball then guides Dougherty back on to the pre-established story:  "Mr. BALL - Do you remember after you had your lunch, you went back to work that day?"... Dougherty complies again:  "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes."...  Ball then avoids the whole issue by citing Dougherty's claim that he ate lunch in the Domino Room in a manner that is divorced from the timing problem he is correcting:  "Mr. BALL - When you talked on the day this accident happened, on the 22d of November 1963, in a statement made to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and, Mr. Dougherty, you told them you went down to the first floor to eat your lunch?"...

To summarize, Dougherty has been coached to avoid telling the Commission what he told Toff...Obviously if Dougherty told Toff he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room he told FBI as well...It is quite apparent that the reason Dougherty is screwing up the context of his witnessing is because he's having trouble remembering and sticking to the script...It is quite easy to conclude from Dougherty's statement that he went down to the Domino Room at noon and ate his lunch...In order to be on the 5th floor when he heard the shot he would have to have gone back upstairs from the Domino Room sometime around 12:25...This would have been the most likely time Dougherty saw Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room...

What Ball is obviously helping conceal, and guiding the testimony to keep Dougherty from mentioning, is the fact that after Dougherty went back upstairs after eating lunch he then heard the shot while on the 5th floor and went back downstairs to see what it was... "Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes." "...This passage reveals the source of the timing problem and clearly illustrates that Dougherty went back downstairs a second time...(Dougherty may have been on the 6th floor and was told to say 5th)...Not only would Dougherty be in the time window for Oswald running down the stairs with this timing but he would also be the the time window for Baker & Truly...

It is more than obvious that Ball is avoiding sorting out the timing problem that centers around what time exactly Dougherty left the Domino Room to go back upstairs and when exactly he heard the shot...The reason for this is Ball is avoiding having the tongue-slipping Dougherty get in to a conversation that involves a time period that is too close to the time Dougherty saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...Ball just drops it in order to keep Dougherty from making another gaffe that would cause further looking in to this highly incriminating moment that Dougherty would later reveal to Toff...

Both the Education Forum and Warren Commissioner Ball show equal fear and silence over this evidence...

And more opinions and speculation from Doyle. There isn't any evidence here. Doyle makes it up and claims it's "evidence". 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 11, 2020, 02:12:57 AM
When did Stanton say she saw Oswald? I haven't seen any statement by her saying that.

Doyle did a horrible interview with Stanton's daughter-in-law and granddaughter, in which the daughter-in-law said that Sarah told her of seeing Oswald on some unspecified staircase at some unspecified time, holding a Pepsi before saying that he was going back upstairs.

Doyle fabricated that into Sarah seeing him out on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room at 12:18.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 11, 2020, 02:15:40 AM
Doyle's has to fabricate stories about everything -- he can't help himself.

Dougherty was not operating with a full deck.  Example:

Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.
Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.
Mr. BALL - You didn't ever go outside the country to Europe?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, no.
Mr. BALL - Or to the South Seas?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You stayed in this country all the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 11, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
Doyle did a horrible interview with Stanton's daughter-in-law and granddaughter, in which the daughter-in-law said that Sarah told her of seeing Oswald on some unspecified staircase at some unspecified time, holding a Pepsi before saying that he was going back upstairs.

Doyle fabricated that into Sarah seeing him out on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room at 12:18.


This was an awful interview by Doyle, but Stanton's family blows Doyle's failed Sarah Stanton as Prayer Woman Theory out of the water with their confirmations.

The fun starts at 15:22 to 21:28

15:48
Doyle: I don't think she's over 300.
Granddaughter: Oh, yes she was!   

18:22
Doyle: Do you think maybe she dyed her hair darker when she was working? 
Daughter in law: No

21:20
Granddaughter: That woman there, do you think that looks like Grandma Sarah?
Daughter in law: No     
Granddaughter: No

Confirmations from both women:

Both said Stanton was 300-500 pounds
Huge on the bottom
Stanton was "very big" when the assassination happened.
Stanton was bigger on the day of the assassination than in the photo Doyle posted.
Stanton became the Mother in law in March 1963
Stanton needed a special car because she was too huge.
Stanton couldn't get out of a car because she was too huge and had to stay inside the car at a funeral.
Stanton had all gray or light hair.

Doyle's failed Stanton PW theory is completely blown out of the water.

Facts:
The Prayer figure is not 300-500 pounds.
The Prayer figure is not "huge on the bottom".
Stanton was fat in the photo Doyle posted and her family said she was even bigger on the day of the assassination.
The Prayer figure is not obese and would not need a special car to fit inside.
Stanton's family revealed that Sarah Stanton could not get out of a car because she was too big. She had to stay in the car during a funeral
Sarah Stanton had all gray or very light hair.
The Prayer figure has dark hair and is not a 300-500 obese woman.
Both women said the image is not Sarah Stanton in the so called "Davidson Enhancement" that shows a distorted Muppet face.

All this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Prayer figure is not Sarah Stanton as confirmed by Stanton's family.               
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 11, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
Doyle did a horrible interview with Stanton's daughter-in-law and granddaughter, in which the daughter-in-law said that Sarah told her of seeing Oswald on some unspecified staircase at some unspecified time, holding a Pepsi before saying that he was going back upstairs.

Doyle fabricated that into Sarah seeing him out on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room at 12:18.

That explains why i've never heard of it. A garbage "sighting".
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 11, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
The reason you haven't heard of it is because the clique at the Education Forum silenced it while selling themselves as people who promote and expose serious assassination evidence...The Education Forum is just a friend's club of insiders...It isn't a serious or credible assassination research discussion site...It is run by a dummy names James Gordon who runs the site for his own power and ego and not for evidence content even though he lies and says he does...

Don't listen to Iacoletti's description of anything...Gerry, Iacoletti doesn't respect you or your intelligence and isn't telling you the truth...Iacoletti is just denial trolling good evidence and shouldn't be taken seriously...

My interview with Wanda Daniel and Sarah Stanton's daughter in law Rosa was not my only phone call with Wanda...In another call Wanda told me she heard Sarah say Oswald told her that he was going back in to the break room and not back upstairs like Iacoletti falsely suggests...This makes sense because Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald in that 2nd floor lunch room "break room" shortly after Stanton...You'll never see Iacoletti answer the question "How does Oswald go back upstairs if Carolyn Arnold sees him in the 2nd floor lunch room?"...Nor will you see him admit that hypothetically, if Oswald did go back upstairs, he would have done it from the NW staircase - right?...You won't see him answer that the Coke Baker saw was the same one Sarah saw...When Iacoletti has Oswald going back upstairs he assumes a hard core FBI/Lone Nutter position...

The reason you haven't heard any of this is because it disproves the Prayer Man theory so the low-lives on the Education Forum got their dummy insider moderator James Gordon to permanently ban me when it was becoming clear I had refuted the Murphy Prayer Man theory Gordon's website had hosted...Up to 95% of the membership had fallen for that bogus theory that was supported by nuts like Bart Kamp so they were not about to admit someone they had ridiculed had smoked them...This kind of rampant dishonesty is the specialty of Jim DiEugenio who rallies that dishonest mob and exploits censorship of those who prove him and his giant ego wrong...

In any case what Iacoletti is dishonestly not informing you of and therefore has no respect for you over is the fact Sarah almost certainly took the elevator downstairs since she said she took it upstairs when she came back in...There was a partition between that passenger elevator and the front stairs so Sarah never made it to the front stairs, therefore excluding them from being where she spoke to Oswald...It is more than obvious that Oswald was standing in the NW staircase landing area waiting for Mrs Reid and the other ladies to leave...If you look at what Iacoletti offers it is always deliberately undetailed and over-simplified in order to avoid that which shows the opposite of what he is trying to mislead you with...The obvious truth is Stanton saw Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room waiting to go back in to it...Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald a few minutes later when he did...A more honest researcher than the trolling/misleading-type Iacoletti represents would automatically realize the fact FBI omitted this from Stanton's FBI statement tells you it is true...The Conspiracy community at the EF is damned because they betrayed and left a seriously skilled one of their own out to flap in the wind and be nipped by trolls all for the reason of childishly wanting to protect the silly Prayer Man theory...They act like children and are willing to ignore a solving of the case for their own petty egotistical interests...

Their latest effort at ignoring is over Kamp's recent discovery of an interview Jack Dougherty did with Gill Toff...In it Dougherty said in plain language that he had seen Oswald eating lunch in that same 2nd floor lunch room...Kamp knows he is in trouble so he exploits the automatic agreement of his sycophants and deals with it by a hand wave where he pronounces that Dougherty is wrong...No reasoning needed with the Prayer Man cult...Kamp pronounces - they obey...However, as I have shown and no credible researcher was able to answer (I am not opening or reading Iacoletti or Plant's posts because I consider them trolls), Dougherty's Warren Commission testimony shows serious evidence that his citing of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room was manipulated and deliberately omitted in order to stick to a pre-scripted story...There's a very simple way to determine if this has merit...The Education Forum is categorically ignoring it and unaccountably not discussing it even though it is red hot new evidence that 100% backs my case and yet again shows Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room and was not Prayer Man...The hijackers know they have been blown out of the water and their nutty Prayer Man theory has been thoroughly torpedo-ed and sunk, which is why they use the embarrassingly childish tactic of ignoring even though the evidence is so overwhelming at this point that they know they can't get away with it...

So Mr Down, you still haven't answered the point...Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room...A few minutes later Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald sitting eating lunch in that same lunch room...Around 12:25, when Dougherty was headed back upstairs after eating lunch in the Domino Room he also saw Oswald sitting eating lunch in the same spot as Carolyn Arnold...6 minutes after Carolyn Arnold, Baker & Truly saw Oswald's lunch in that same spot after Baker had seen Oswald flinch away from the Vestibule door window and chased him back in to the lunch room...Mrs Reid then saw Oswald exit from that lunch room after Baker & Truly saw him there...

FBI dealt with this by criminally suborning perjury and either altering or outright omitting these important witnessings from the record...None of this, of course, being of any interest to the airheads over at the EF who are content swallowing Kamp's obvious evasions and lies and heeling to Gordon's arrogant moderation in order to get free posting space like cowards...They are so uncredible they allow Bart to post unchallenged that workers were not allowed to eat in the 2nd floor lunch room right in the face of the multiple witnesses that were uncovered in the last two years that spoke openly of Oswald being seen eating in there regularly...Lies are OK for the hijacking Prayer Man mob...This is how the dark Fagan Gordon moderates his uncredible website...

A good way to tell this is correct is to consider the trolls over at Bart's website don't cut and paste it over there because they know it refutes them and they don't want to expose it...

 


 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 12, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
The hijackers know they have been blown out of the water and their nutty Prayer Man theory has been thoroughly torpedo-ed and sunk, which is why they use the embarrassingly childish tactic of ignoring even though the evidence is so overwhelming at this point that they know they can't get away with it...

 :D :D :D

Doyle, you were blown out of the water with your own awful interview with Stanton's family. Both women disagreed with you when you tried to downlay Stanton's weight. The information they told you about her obese weight of 300-500 pounds does not match the physical features of the Prayer figure. I've already detailed that above.     

Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room...

Nobody ever said Oswald was "itching to get back into the 2nd floor lunchroom". Another fabrication made up by you.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 12, 2020, 04:02:36 AM
Don't listen to Iacoletti's description of anything...Gerry, Iacoletti doesn't respect you or your intelligence and isn't telling you the truth...Iacoletti is just denial trolling good evidence and shouldn't be taken seriously...

Gerry is quite capable of listening for himself.

Quote
My interview with Wanda Daniel and Sarah Stanton's daughter in law Rosa was not my only phone call with Wanda...In another call Wanda told me she heard Sarah say Oswald told her that he was going back in to the break room and not back upstairs like Iacoletti falsely suggests...

"Falsely suggests"?  It's right there in your recorded interview of Rosa.  You can't deny that.  As for what was said in your alleged "unrecorded other phone call", why would anybody just take your word for that?  You have 675 falsehoods and fabrications that say your word isn't worth squat.

Quote
This makes sense because Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald in that 2nd floor lunch room "break room" shortly after Stanton...

"Shortly after"?  Wanda and Rosa never said what time this alleged sighting occurred.

Quote
You'll never see Iacoletti answer the question "How does Oswald go back upstairs if Carolyn Arnold sees him in the 2nd floor lunch room?"...

Uh, is there something preventing him from going upstairs after a sighting on an unspecified staircase at an unspecified time?  Rosa and Wanda never said 2nd floor staircase.  You made that up.

Quote
Nor will you see him admit that hypothetically, if Oswald did go back upstairs, he would have done it from the NW staircase - right?...

Why?  Again, they didn't say what staircase or what time.

Quote
You won't see him answer that the Coke Baker saw was the same one Sarah saw...

How would you possibly know that?  You don't.  You just made it up.

Quote
The reason you haven't heard any of this is because it disproves the Prayer Man theory so the low-lives on the Education Forum got their dummy insider moderator James Gordon to permanently ban me when it was becoming clear I had refuted the Murphy Prayer Man theory Gordon's website had hosted...

Why would you even assume that Gerry reads the Education Forum?  You've been banned from every other forum and group for your behavior, so this is the only remaining place you can still spew your garbage.

Quote
In any case what Iacoletti is dishonestly not informing you of and therefore has no respect for you over is the fact Sarah almost certainly took the elevator downstairs since she said she took it upstairs when she came back in...

How is that a "fact"?  Just because you made it up?

Quote
There was a partition between that passenger elevator and the front stairs so Sarah never made it to the front stairs, therefore excluding them from being where she spoke to Oswald...

Rosa and Wanda never said that the Oswald sighting was at the time Sarah was going downstairs to see the parade.

Quote
It is more than obvious that Oswald was standing in the NW staircase landing area waiting for Mrs Reid and the other ladies to leave...

How is that obvious?  Because you made it up?

Quote
If you look at what Iacoletti offers it is always deliberately undetailed and over-simplified in order to avoid that which shows the opposite of what he is trying to mislead you with...The obvious truth is Stanton saw Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room waiting to go back in to it...Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald a few minutes later when he did...

Again, Rosa and Wanda didn't say where or at what time this sighting occurred.

Quote
A more honest researcher than the trolling/misleading-type Iacoletti represents would automatically realize the fact FBI omitted this from Stanton's FBI statement tells you it is true...

How is that a "fact"?  Because you made it up?

Quote
Their latest effort at ignoring is over Kamp's recent discovery of an interview Jack Dougherty did with Gill Toff...In it Dougherty said in plain language that he had seen Oswald eating lunch in that same 2nd floor lunch room...

He said it was when he went down to lunch.  Dougherty testified that he went down to lunch at noon.  How does that help?

Quote
(I am not opening or reading Iacoletti or Plant's posts because I consider them trolls),

And yet somehow you know what we're saying.  You can't even tell the truth about that.  You pretend to ignore us because we expose how utterly phony and bankrupt your arguments are.

Quote
The Education Forum is categorically ignoring it and unaccountably not discussing it even though it is red hot new evidence that 100% backs my case and yet again shows Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room and was not Prayer Man...

The Toff interview snippet is not "red hot", nor does it tell you a single thing about who prayerman is.

Mrs. Reid also did not see Oswald exit from that lunch room.  You made that up too.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 12, 2020, 04:05:45 AM
Doyle, you were blown out of the water with your own awful interview with Stanton's family. Both women disagreed with you when you tried to downlay Stanton's weight. The information they told you about her obese weight of 300-500 pounds does not match the physical features of the Prayer figure. I've already detailed that above.   

He told them upfront that he had identified Sarah in NBC footage of the steps (which was a lie), and even argued with them when they said Sarah saw him holding a Pepsi.  Worst.  Interview.  Ever.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 12, 2020, 05:30:14 AM
He told them upfront that he had identified Sarah in NBC footage of the steps (which was a lie), and even argued with them when they said Sarah saw him holding a Pepsi.  Worst.  Interview.  Ever.

Of course Doyle did. Not only that, he was leading them with his questions and putting answers in their mouth. When he didn't like what he heard, he tried arguing with them. Perfect examples were when Doyle said "Stanton didn't weigh 300 pounds" and Wanda said she did. The other was Doyle trying to claim "Stanton dyed her hair" and Rosa said "no". He confused them with the soda, the steps, and the lunchroom with his propaganda. The description both women gave does not match the physical appearance of the Prayer figure.       
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 12, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
My interview with Wanda Daniel and Sarah Stanton's daughter in law Rosa was not my only phone call with Wanda...In another call Wanda told me she heard Sarah say Oswald told her that he was going back in to the break room and not back upstairs like Iacoletti falsely suggests...This makes sense because Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald in that 2nd floor lunch room "break room" shortly after Stanton.

Hi Brian, thanks for that info. Can you post a transcript of your interview with Rosa and Wanda?

In his book "JFK Absolute Proof" Robert Groden talks about a new witness he interviewed that puts Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the time of the assassination. Is his material the same as yours?

Their latest effort at ignoring is over Kamp's recent discovery of an interview Jack Dougherty did with Gill Toff...In it Dougherty said in plain language that he had seen Oswald eating lunch in that same 2nd floor lunch room...Kamp knows he is in trouble so he exploits the automatic agreement of his sycophants and deals with it by a hand wave where he pronounces that Dougherty is wrong.

Is a transcript of this interview available online?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 12, 2020, 04:44:55 PM
I didn't make a transcript...The interview is the one posted in the video in this thread...

I think the witness Groden is talking about is a second Mrs Reid...Groden thinks he interviewed a second Mrs Reid who stayed behind and didn't go outside to watch the motorcade...Groden said this Mrs Reid was giving Oswald change for the Coke machine in the 2nd floor offices when they heard the shots go off...Wanda Daniel gave me a photo of this alleged second Mrs Reid that came from Sarah Stanton's photo album of her fellow Depository workers...There was no progress on this new evidence because the usual suspects came in and trolled it and shut it down...It got no traction on the Education Forum where the main interest of the booby membership is enforcing childish grudges even if at the expense of the most incredible evidence to emerge in years...The photo of Mrs Reid that Wanda sent me does appear to be a different person from the Mrs Reid seen in other assassination photos...

In any case, it is quite clear that Sarah repeatedly told her relatives that she witnessed Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunch room prior to the assassination...It is quite obvious from the rest of what we know that Oswald was out there on the 2nd floor staircase landing waiting for Mrs Reid and the other ladies to leave the 2nd floor lunch room so he could go back inside...Wanda told me she heard Sarah tell the story and thought that Sarah said Oswald said he intended to go back in to the break room...That makes sense because Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald in that very break room at 12:25...It is common sense at this point that Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing because those were the stairs just outside the 2nd floor lunch room...You can ignore the nuts who ride my back on every post and try to deny this...Oh, also, the reason why Sarah kept repeating this story to her relatives is because she realized she had told this account to the FBI but it disappeared and never showed up in any assassination reports or articles...So she was making sure people knew it because she knew it was an important witnessing...

So now we have yet another witness to Oswald being in the second floor lunch room - Sarah Stanton, Carolyn Arnold, and now Jack Dougherty...A look at the FBI statements record shows FBI either altered or omitted all of these damning witnessings...And as I have outlined, Warren Commissioner Ball led Jack Dougherty in his Commission testimony in order to walk him around this...There is no discussion of this on Kamp's website or on the Education Forum because the crooks who oversee the forum along with the membership know it destroys the Prayer Man theory and validates myself so they ignore it like 12 year olds...Dougherty obviously saw Oswald when he went back upstairs around 12:25...

Interestingly enough Rob Clark has found a photo of what may be Jack Dougherty on the front steps of the Depository after the assassination...Whoever it is he has a brown jacket which forces me to point-out that he fits the description of the man Baker & Truly saw walking away from the 3rd floor staircase for whatever it is worth... - Zero discussion of this on the Prayer Man-hijacked JFK internet...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 12, 2020, 07:25:21 PM
Groden was punked. He thought that Jeraldean Reid was a different person from “Mrs Robert Reid” (she wasn’t), and that Mrs Robert Reid was named “Delores”. No such person. Groden said he couldn’t tell her story until she died, but Jeraldean Reid died in 1973.

And the rest is more made-up Doyle BS. There’s no evidence whatsoever that his “ Mrs Reid seen in other assassination photos” is anybody named Reid.

Doyle’s incensed that nobody in the forums he has been banned from for his behavior is discussing his ideas. But people don’t take his ideas seriously, because it’s all fabricated nonsense. Listen to the interview. At no point does Rosa say that the alleged Oswald sighting occurred on the second floor or at the time that Sarah left to go downstairs. Doyle fabricated all of that.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 13, 2020, 05:48:44 AM
Groden was punked. He thought that Jeraldean Reid was a different person from “Mrs Robert Reid” (she wasn’t), and that Mrs Robert Reid was named “Delores”. No such person. Groden said he couldn’t tell her story until she died, but Jeraldean Reid died in 1973.

I think Groden is inclined to believe anything that points towards a conspiracy.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 13, 2020, 04:43:25 PM
I think Groden is inclined to believe anything that points towards a conspiracy.

The photo of Jeraldean Reid from Sarah Stanton's photo album does look like it could be a different person than the darker Mrs Reid in the other assassination photos and sitting next to Leavelle...

Sarah Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in the the "break room"...Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating lunch in that 2nd floor break room at 12:25...And now it seems Jack Dougherty did too on his way back upstairs around 12:25...Baker & Truly saw Oswald in that same spot 6 minutes later at 12:31...

Proof that this is true is the evidence hoaxer Bart Kamp is unaccountably avoiding any discussion of the new Dougherty evidence that he discovered...And the dummies over there are assisting him by practicing hateful spite and ignoring instead of credible inquiry...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 13, 2020, 05:43:59 PM
Proof that this is true is the evidence hoaxer Bart Kamp is unaccountably avoiding any discussion of the new Dougherty evidence that he discovered...And the dummies over there are assisting him by practicing hateful spite and ignoring instead of credible inquiry...

I've heard this Bart Kamp has a website. What is the address?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 14, 2020, 01:19:43 AM
The photo of Jeraldean Reid from Sarah Stanton's photo album does look like it could be a different person than the darker Mrs Reid in the other assassination photos and sitting next to Leavelle...

There is no evidence whatsoever that the woman sitting next to Leavelle in a clip from Sunday is name Reid.  None.

Quote
Sarah Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in the the "break room"...

Complete Doyle fabrication.  Rosa and Wanda didn't say that.

Quote
Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating lunch in that 2nd floor break room at 12:25...And now it seems Jack Dougherty did too on his way back upstairs around 12:25...

Another Doyle fabrication.  Dougherty didn't say "on his way back upstairs" or "12:25".

Quote
Baker & Truly saw Oswald in that same spot 6 minutes later at 12:31...

What "same spot"?  Over by the Coke machine?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 14, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
Andrej Stancak wrote:

Quote
Debates and disputes require tolerance and graciousness toward opponents and their work else a discussion comes to a halt.

When I first posted the evidence that Prayer Man was not Oswald Andrej teamed-up with the other brainwashed Prayer Man supporters and wrote "I'm surprised you are even allowed to post here"...The rank hypocrisy Stancak represents here is backed by the bum James Gordon to whom Stancak was sending PM's telling him to moderate me when I was trying to show the Education Forum the correct evidence on Prayer Man...What Stancak and Gordon do is turn up the emphasis on manners because they are trying to avoid being held accountable for evidence they are ignoring...It is a cheap trick they use in order to accuse you of being impolite when the real offense is them ignoring good evidence...Andrej quickly left my Prayer Woman page saying I was impossible and wasn't following his arguments when any credible interpretation of what was going on would show it was actually Andrej who was failing to follow my good evidence...Andrej is a hack pseudo-analyst who tries to force everything towards Prayer Man and then takes on the role of well-reasoned technical expert when it is clear he is trying to buffalo people with false graphics that are based on fabricating positions for non-existent persons...His latest effort is trying to convert Pauline Sanders in Altgens in to Stanton in order to get her away from her true Prayer Man position...The EF members know Stancak is full of it and they haven't taken his posts seriously for years - but they still don't give me credit for disproving Stancak, which is quite dishonest and directly leads to Stancak still pumping out BS pseudo-analysis on Prayer Man...The Prayer Man people cannot survive on a fair playing field where their use of biased moderators and censorship doesn't help them like everywhere else they post...

While politeness is nice, what counts the most is good evidence being acknowledged and its denial not being tolerated (as the rank hypocrite Stancak suggests above but doesn't really practice himself)...

Stancak never posted a single word about the new Dougherty witnessing of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room and it isn't very "gracious" for him to ignore it...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 14, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZvgVRGFNUdKRW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 14, 2020, 07:02:19 PM
The only hack pseudo-analyst here is Doyle and his false and fabricated nonsense.

Stancak can speak for himself.

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 15, 2020, 04:00:29 PM

Lifton is failing to counter Bojczuk with Dennis David's witnessing of an entry wound in the front right temple...

This witnessing is key evidence supporting his alteration claim...

The only way Pitzer could have documented that wound is if he had filmed it by remote filming equipment at Bethesda...

This would therefore prove that the conspirators rushed JFK to a covert autopsy room not realizing Pitzer had wired it for remote filming...

I hope Lifton is not pulling out this evidence sword because he intends to save it for his book...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 15, 2020, 11:19:33 PM

From Gill Toff Interview With Jack Dougherty:

Quote
Further down in that same interview Dougherty claims that Oswald was eating his lunch in the second floor lunch room, which isn’t true at all. If he sees Oswald in the second floor lunch room after he has finished his lunch (what was the reason for him to go to the second fl lunch room after his lunch in the first place when he was going for the sixth).
But then changes his mind to  seeing him on two while Dougherty went downstairs. Quite a changeover. But that only says he sees him on the second floor, where Oswald went to get his coke for his lunch.
If Oswald at that time was eating his lunch n the second floor then he would have been spotted by many office workers. Yet no one did.
 
Q:         Did anybody tell you, for instance, you like Oswald probably if he was up on the sixth floor headed truly downstairs too, cause someone saw him down there on second floor, pretty fast
JD:       Yes, they had to, but I don’t know who it was.
Q:         You don’t know what?
JD:       I don’t know who it was, who saw him come down.
Q:         Did you see him at all that day do you remember?
JD:       Well, just downstairs in the lunch room, was about all.
Q:         But that was when you were having lunch right?
JD:       Yes, uh huh.
Q:         And he was having lunch in there too?
JD:       No, I was downstairs having lunch and he was having lunch upstairs on two.
Q:         Oh he had lunch on two? And you had lunch on one?
JD:       Yes.
Q:         And did you see him have lunch before you had it or after?
JD:       That was after.
Q:         You had your lunch first and then you saw him at lunch?
JD:       Well, I come down and I saw him on two see and then I went downstairs and had mine.
Q:         And he was already in eating?
JD:       Yes uh huh.

This seems unlikely because allegedly Oswald stayed upstairs and the others went down for lunch first...

If you are sharp you'll notice Dougherty says he saw Oswald on the 2nd floor when he came down for lunch...

But Dougherty told Ball he went down to eat lunch at noon...

Toff then asks Dougherty if he saw Oswald eating lunch on the 2nd floor before or after Dougherty ate lunch and Dougherty says "after"...

Here is Dougherty telegraphing his lies once again because he has just finished explaining in the very same interview that he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room on his way down to the Domino Room to eat...(That's "before")...

In my opinion it takes real nerve to refer to yourselves as the established main researchers in the Kennedy Assassination and ignore this and give it no discussion...

It is clear as day that Dougherty saw Oswald sitting eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room right about the same time as Carolyn Arnold on his way back upstairs after eating his own lunch in the Domino Room...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 15, 2020, 11:32:55 PM
This seems unlikely because allegedly Oswald stayed upstairs and the others went down for lunch first...

The others went downstairs around 11:50, not noon.

Quote
If you are sharp you'll notice Dougherty says he saw Oswald on the 2nd floor when he came down for lunch...

But Dougherty told Ball he went down to eat lunch at noon...

Toff then asks Dougherty if he saw Oswald eating lunch on the 2nd floor before or after Dougherty ate lunch and Dougherty says "after"...

But then he says, "I saw him on two see and then I went downstairs and had mine."  Dougherty is a confused witness.  He contradicts himself all over his WC testimony too.

Quote
It is clear as day that Dougherty saw Oswald sitting eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room right about the same time as Carolyn Arnold on his way back upstairs after eating his own lunch in the Domino Room...

There is exactly NOTHING in the Toff interview that would lead you to "about the same time as Carolyn Arnold".  That's pure Doyle fabrication.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 19, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
From Gill Toff Interview With Jack Dougherty:

Q:         Did anybody tell you, for instance, you like Oswald probably if he was up on the sixth floor headed truly downstairs too, cause someone saw him down there on second floor, pretty fast
JD:       Yes, they had to, but I don’t know who it was.
Q:         You don’t know what?
JD:       I don’t know who it was, who saw him come down.
Q:         Did you see him at all that day do you remember?
JD:       Well, just downstairs in the lunch room, was about all.
Q:         But that was when you were having lunch right?
JD:       Yes, uh huh.
Q:         And he was having lunch in there too?
JD:       No, I was downstairs having lunch and he was having lunch upstairs on two.
Q:         Oh he had lunch on two? And you had lunch on one?
JD:       Yes.
Q:         And did you see him have lunch before you had it or after?
JD:       That was after.
Q:         You had your lunch first and then you saw him at lunch?
JD:       Well, I come down and I saw him on two see and then I went downstairs and had mine.
Q:         And he was already in eating?
JD:       Yes uh huh.

Do you know where the complete Gill Toff interview can be got? And details like what year it was taken?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 19, 2020, 06:28:54 PM
No...

And the source, Bart Kamp, will avoid it with the assistance of his dark accomplice James Gordon...

Any review of that interview and Dougherty's admission that he saw Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room will confirm it corroborates Carolyn Arnold and therefore Kamp's entire "Prayer Man" business will be proven to be the bunk it is...

Kamp ignored it with a "It couldn't be" hand-wave and then also ignored all the corroborating evidence that proves it like Ball's obvious guidance around it in Dougherty's Commission testimony...

Toff should have asked Dougherty how his admission conflicted with his "last saw Oswald at 11am" statement?...

Look at the sh*t-heels on the Education Forum playing dumb over this and avoiding it while still pretending they have credibility under their dark lord Gordon...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on April 19, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
No...

And the source, Bart Kamp, will avoid it with the assistance of his dark accomplice James Gordon...

Any review of that interview and Dougherty's admission that he saw Oswald eating in the 2nd floor lunch room will confirm it corroborates Carolyn Arnold and therefore Kamp's entire "Prayer Man" business will be proven to be the bunk it is...

Kamp ignored it with a "It couldn't be" hand-wave and then also ignored all the corroborating evidence that proves it like Ball's obvious guidance around it in Dougherty's Commission testimony...

Toff should have asked Dougherty how his admission conflicted with his "last saw Oswald at 11am" statement?...

Look at the sh*t-heels on the Education Forum playing dumb over this and avoiding it while still pretending they have credibility under their dark lord Gordon...

That is a pain. Hiding eyewitness testimony from the rest of us.

Though i wouldn't be surprised if he made the testimony up out of thin air just to seem like a big shot that he had access to some of these witnesses.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 19, 2020, 09:11:19 PM
That is a pain. Hiding eyewitness testimony from the rest of us.

Though i wouldn't be surprised if he made the testimony up out of thin air just to seem like a big shot that he had access to some of these witnesses.

I assumed it was real and came from Kamp's Malcolm Blunt Archives...A simple search shows Toff is a real JFK researcher...No one challenged it...

It doesn't change Ball's guiding of Dougherty in his Commission interview that I outlined that backs Toff's discovery...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 19, 2020, 09:20:18 PM

DiEugenio wrote:

Quote
William Weston has done a really interesting revision of his original articles about the famous Glaze letters that a reporter  tried to get out to the media and the HSCA in the seventies.

With,  predictably, no success.  Its really bad that the HSCA did nothing with this communication.  It seemed to me to be a very interesting lead about how the TSBD operated.

Bill notes that now its too late to even talk to Glaze since the guy has passed on recently. Anyway, this is another interesting lead that has gone by the wayside. More interesting than most I think.


Jim is not mentioning the fact that he was directly responsible for my own important new Depository evidence not being recognized and openly called for it being censored on the Education Forum...

Jim also directly lied about my communication with Oliver Stone's producer Rob Wilson...That lie resulted in the NBC newsreel film scans not being acquired...The same scans Jim himself was calling for...When I proved Jim was lying by showing the e-mails it was ignored...

My very important leads that Jim actively participated in suppressing are some of the most important evidence in assassination history...

Like many guilty persons, Jim's guilty conscious leaks out in hypocritical posts like this one...There is obviously a decent person inside Jim's psyche that doesn't like the other bully hypocrite who lives in there with him...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 19, 2020, 11:22:27 PM
Jim is not mentioning the fact that he was directly responsible for my own important new Depository evidence not being recognized and openly called for it being censored on the Education Forum...

You have no important new Depository evidence. You have 675 falsehoods and fabrications.

Quote
Jim also directly lied about my communication with Oliver Stone's producer Rob Wilson...

No, you lied about what DiEugenio said.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 20, 2020, 04:29:03 PM
Now Jim is saying Shelley's being CIA at the Depository is interesting...

But typical of Jim he's not mentioning my post about the evidence showing Shelley helping one of the Oswald's out the back after being stopped at the front door...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on April 21, 2020, 02:47:30 PM
Now Jim is saying Shelley's being CIA at the Depository is interesting...

But typical of Jim he's not mentioning my post about the evidence showing Shelley helping one of the Oswald's out the back after being stopped at the front door...

What a Bothsoon they be, Mc Gee !!   Get a real job at Deliveroo. No, wait......
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Royell Storing on April 21, 2020, 03:46:56 PM
  I watched a video on You Tube that Lifton did roughly 3 years ago. This was before You Tube disappeared a ton of material there. Lifton filmed 2 witnesses claiming that they saw the JFK Limo STOP on the Stemmons FWY On-Ramp after it went under the Stemmons Fwy and after making that curving turn. There is a grass section over there upon which these 2 people were allegedly standing. They said the Limo was forced to STOP due to a hysterical Jackie doing all she could to bail out of the car. SS Agents were all over the Limo trying to get Jackie back inside it. If Lifton has another book coming out, I hope these witnesses and their detailed story is included. The Officer Chaney/Lead Car Incident would have had an ample opportunity to have occurred during this alleged Limo Stoppage. 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 22, 2020, 01:41:42 AM
Now Jim is saying Shelley's being CIA at the Depository is interesting...

But typical of Jim he's not mentioning my post about the evidence showing Shelley helping one of the Oswald's out the back after being stopped at the front door...

That’s because you just made it up. Why would anybody else mention your fabrications, other than to mock you?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 22, 2020, 07:15:39 PM

A newbie has made the mistake of posting on Prayer Man on the Education Forum...

A brave poster named Jonathan Cohen has come in and stated the obvious - that Oswald wasn't out there...

The hypocritical regulars are staying silent because they don't dare post what they know to be untrue...

They feel guilty because they know they have blood on their hands for banning an innocent person whose evidence was correct...

They don't really believe the Prayer Man theory...
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on April 24, 2020, 08:11:26 PM

David Josephs' Prayer Man image in the Education Forum Prayer Man thread shows Sarah Stanton's obese forearm that is obviously way to thick to be the thin Oswald's...

The giant mitt-sized hand is proof enough and is visibly too large to be Oswald's hand...

It is obviously the obese hand of Sarah Stanton...

The only reason this hasn't been recognized is because of the technical incompetence of that website as well as its hijacking by the Prayer Man crazies...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on April 24, 2020, 09:50:45 PM
David Josephs' Prayer Man image in the Education Forum Prayer Man thread shows Sarah Stanton's obese forearm that is obviously way to thick to be the thin Oswald's...

The giant mitt-sized hand is proof enough and is visibly too large to be Oswald's hand...

It is obviously the obese hand of Sarah Stanton...

The only reason this hasn't been recognized is because of the technical incompetence of that website as well as its hijacking by the Prayer Man crazies...


Prayer Man has black hair and Sarah Stanton had light hair.

Sarah Stanton was between 300-500 pounds as confirmed by her family.  The Prayer Man is not 300-500 pounds.

Buell Frazier was shown the photograph and he had no clue who the Prayer Figure is. If it was Stanton he would have confirmed it.

Your theory = fail.   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 26, 2020, 07:32:04 PM
What “giant mitt-sized hand”?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on May 04, 2020, 04:51:55 PM

Let it be noted that the JFK research community avoided any discussion of the Gill Toff Dougherty interview because it made clear that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots like Dougherty witnessed in that interview...

When I showed reinforcing evidence that Ball helped Dougherty avoid his witnessing of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room it was ignored...

Let it be known that those who control the JFK internet are in contempt of honest discussion...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Martin Weidmann on May 04, 2020, 07:49:39 PM
For what it's worth; at 34:10 Frazier talks about "the lady standing next to me" adding at 34:35; "I turned to Sarah"

Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on May 04, 2020, 10:52:59 PM
For what it's worth; at 34:10 Frazier talks about "the lady standing next to me" adding at 34:35; "I turned to Sarah"

Yep - I've been pointing people to that quote for several years now...

Darnell is the exact moment he is speaking of there and when you look at the Darnell clip it shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man at the exact time he is referencing when he said he had turned to Sarah...

That is PROOF that Sarah is Prayer Man...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Martin Weidmann on May 04, 2020, 11:42:32 PM
Yep - I've been pointing people to that quote for several years now...

Darnell is the exact moment he is speaking of there and when you look at the Darnell clip it shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man at the exact time he is referencing when he said he had turned to Sarah...

That is PROOF that Sarah is Prayer Man...

It's evidence but not proof. There is a difference.

All Frazier's comments indicate is that there was a lady standing next to him (at some point) and that he (at some point) turned to Sarah. Frazier's comments do not exclude the possibility that the lady standing next to him was Sarah and that the Sarah he is talking about is indeed Sarah Stanton, but you can not jump to the conclusion that the lady standing next to Frazier was indeed Sarah Stanton without more evidence.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 04, 2020, 11:54:42 PM
Yep - I've been pointing people to that quote for several years now...

Darnell is the exact moment he is speaking of there and when you look at the Darnell clip it shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man at the exact time he is referencing when he said he had turned to Sarah...

That is PROOF that Sarah is Prayer Man...

Let me know how Sarah Stanton with her 300-500 pounds ended up to the right of Frazier when he always stated she was to his left and never moved.

Also explain why Buell Frazier could not identify the prayer figure when he was shown the photograph. If he "turned to Stanton to his right" he easily would have  identified the prayer figure as Stanton. He said he "had no idea who it was because he was watching the parade."

Also, Sarah Stanton makes very clear she "immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions" and never mentions Buell Frazier in her FBI testimony.

And the appearance of Sarah Stanton as described by her own family does not match the appearance of the prayer figure. Stanton was 300-500 -pounds with light hair and the figure is not 300-500 pounds and has black hair.

Doyle keeps going with this fake theory that's been refuted by Buell Frazier..             
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Martin Weidmann on May 05, 2020, 12:30:20 AM
No, it is PROOF...

We know it has to be Sarah Stanton because there were only two ladies on the landing platform...Stancak already found Pauline Sanders in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens so the only other possibility is Sarah Stanton...

Frazier said before Lovelady and Shelley went down to the railyard that Gloria Calvery came up shouting the president has been shot...

Pay attention to Frazier's hand gesture in your video...He rocks his hand back and forth towards his right (the Prayer Man spot) when describing Sarah's location...

In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady described Stanton as being next to him by the west wall of the portal when the limousine passed the steps...The Hughes film shows Lovelady in that exact spot...That was 9 seconds before Altgens and showed Prayer Man in that same spot...

Close analysis of the infamous Prayer Man shot in Darnell will show Sarah's Stanton's exact 5 foot 4 height and obese forearm and hand on Prayer Man...The hand is like a huge mitt...One look at Stanton's family photo shows that exact same hand...

Stanton said she could not see the limousine at the time of the shots...The west wall of the portal is blocking Prayer Man's view of the limo during the shots...

Altgens shows the people on the portal landing clearly...Stanton is not to Frazier's left...That is proof that she moved to where Lovelady said she was by the west wall (the Prayer Man spot)...

It is PROOF...

No, it is PROOF...

Which only tells me that you don't know the difference between evidence and proof.

We know it has to be Sarah Stanton because there were only two ladies on the landing platform...Stancak already found Pauline Sanders in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens so the only other possibility is Sarah Stanton... 

"has to be" is not proof... It's at best a conclusion based on circumstantial evidence.

I don't know how many women were on the steps.

Frazier said before Lovelady and Shelley went down to the railyard that Gloria Calvery came up shouting the president has been shot...

Now, this is evidence which can be considered to be conclusive proof since Lovelady and Shelley have corroborated this sequence of events.

Pay attention to Frazier's hand gesture in your video...He rocks his hand back and forth towards his right (the Prayer Man spot) when describing Sarah's location...

If you consider the interpretation of a hand movement evidence, then you and I have a completely different opinion about what evidence actually is.

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 05, 2020, 12:44:23 AM
Lovelady was a proven liar whose testimony couldn't be trusted because we know from the Darnell film that he and Shelley left the steps and went up to the railyard about 20 seconds after the last shot...

In his 1964 FBI statement Lovelady described Stanton as being next to him by the west wall of the portal when the limousine passed the steps...The Hughes film shows Lovelady in that exact spot...That was 9 seconds before Altgens and showed Prayer Man in that same spot.

Here's how dishonest Brian Doyle is where he cherry picks witness testimony for his failed PW theory. 

Doyle states Lovelady is a "proven liar whose testimony couldn't be trusted". Now he's trying to use Lovelady's testimony for his failed PW theory because it fits his narrative.

Not only is this dishonest, but Doyle is using the testimony from a man he says is a "proven liar". Doyle refutes his own claim in contradiction.

Also, Doyle says the FBI "changed witness testimony" and Doyle refuses to accept Sarah Stanton's own FBI statement where she clearly stated that she "immediately went inside the building after hearing three explosions and went up to the second floor to look out the window to see what was happening."

Sarah Stanton never mentions Buell Frazier in her FBI statements.

Another fail for Doyle.                 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on May 05, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
What time was the prayer man photo (footage) taken?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on May 05, 2020, 02:11:09 AM
From 25 seconds after the last shot to 30 seconds...

Thanks. Does that mean Baker and Truly have gone in at that stage?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 05, 2020, 09:21:41 AM
No, it is PROOF...

No, it is not proof. It's your usual made up fabrications.

We know it has to be Sarah Stanton because there were only two ladies on the landing platform...Stancak already found Pauline Sanders in between Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens so the only other possibility is Sarah Stanton...

No Doyle, it does not have to be Sarah Stanton. Frazier stated there was several women out there and the Prayer figure is not a woman no matter now hard you try to say it is. 

Pay attention to Frazier's hand gesture in your video...He rocks his hand back and forth towards his right (the Prayer Man spot) when describing Sarah's location...


More Doyle fabrications. Frazier was doing no such thing. He was not describing Stanton's spot because he never said she was to his right.   

Stanton is not to Frazier's left...

Well Doyle, Frazier said Stanton was to his left 



Start watching the video at 53:11 where you will see Buell Frazier refuting Brian Doyle's b.s. Sarah Stanton as Prayer Man claim.     

@53:31
Mack: Was she off to your right or your left?
Frazier: Left (pointing left @53:35   

Frazier stated several women from the offices were out there with him.

@54:30 Frazier also stated he wasn't outside very long and it was only a short time. So, there wasn't any time for Frazier to be speaking with Stanton for a very long time and he never stated anything about Stanton being to his right or her moving from his left side to move to the PM position over to the right.

Frazier's own interview refutes Doyle's failed Stanton as Prayer Man claim for good.         

We can finally end this Stanton as Prayer Man nonsense once and for all.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on May 05, 2020, 01:01:57 PM
They are right there in the Darnell film...

Baker is running up to the sidewalk in front of the Depository in the film...

Do the prayer man group believe that the Baker/Truly/Oswald encounter occurred in the 2nd floor lunch room 90 seconds after the shots had been fired?

If so i presume they think prayer man went up the front stairs to the 2nd floor and down the hallway to the 2nd floor lunch room. Only of course Geneva Hine was there at that time and did not see Oswald.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on May 05, 2020, 01:17:44 PM
Do the prayer man group believe that the Baker/Truly/Oswald encounter occurred in the 2nd floor lunch room 90 seconds after the shots had been fired?

No, they don't!

Quote
If so i presume they think prayer man went up the front stairs to the 2nd floor and down the hallway to the 2nd floor lunch room. Only of course Geneva Hine was there at that time and did not see Oswald.

Nor did she see Mrs Reid!

 Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on May 05, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
No, they don't!

You're joking. That's how crazy the prayer man group are?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on May 05, 2020, 04:02:32 PM
You're joking. That's how crazy the prayer man group are?

Why does that make them crazy, Mr Down?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Gerry Down on May 05, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
Why does that make them crazy, Mr Down?

It requires Truly, Baker and the DPD (because Oswald admitted to it in questioning after his arrest) to have invented the 2nd floor lunchroom incident out of thin air. And also Mrs Reid too to be involved as Oswald came out of the lunch room shortly after the incident and walked through her office.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Alan Ford on May 05, 2020, 04:35:54 PM
It requires Truly, Baker and the DPD (because Oswald admitted to it in questioning after his arrest) to have invented the 2nd floor lunchroom incident out of thin air. And also Mrs Reid too to be involved as Oswald came out of the lunch room shortly after the incident and walked through her office.

Here's what Mr Oswald 'admitted' to in questioning after his arrest:

(https://i.imgur.com/DI9O7iE.jpg)

Notice anything?

And here's what Officer Baker stated that same day:

(https://i.imgur.com/DIcuamc.jpg)

And DPD were telling the press that day that Mr Oswald was stopped at the building's front entrance. Nothing about a lunchroom.

As for Mrs Reid, how come Ms Hine didn't see her or her encounter with Mr Oswald?

 Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Ray Mitcham on May 05, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
It requires Truly, Baker and the DPD (snip) to have invented the 2nd floor lunchroom incident out of thin air.

You got it in one, Gerry.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Martin Weidmann on May 05, 2020, 09:19:25 PM
It requires Truly, Baker and the DPD (because Oswald admitted to it in questioning after his arrest) to have invented the 2nd floor lunchroom incident out of thin air. And also Mrs Reid too to be involved as Oswald came out of the lunch room shortly after the incident and walked through her office.

You may recall that Baker initially said he encountered a man on the 3rd or 4th floor..... Only later did it become the 2nd floor lunchroom.

How do you know for sure what Oswald "admitted to" when there is no verbatim record of his interrogation?

Mrs Reid only saw Oswald coming down the hallway. She had no way of knowing if he had come out of the lunchroom or from the stairs.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 05, 2020, 10:14:23 PM
Buell Frazier refutes Brian Doyle's absurd Prayer Woman Theory as he makes clear that Sarah Stanton was standing to his left. 


Start watching the video at 53:11 where you will see Buell Frazier refuting Brian Doyle's b.s. Sarah Stanton as Prayer Man claim.     

@53:31
Mack: Was she off to your right or off to your left?
Frazier: Left (pointing left) @53:35   

Several women were outside watching the parade and Frazier states he was out there for not very long. Never said Stanton was to his right.

Sarah Stanton is not the prayer figure as confirmed by Buell Frazier.   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 06, 2020, 10:22:13 PM
Brian Doyle isn't going to address Buell Frazier clearly stating that Sarah Stanton was to his left and is not the Prayer Figure after Doyle  claimed he "proved" that it was?   

Pay attention to Frazier's hand gesture in your video...He rocks his hand back and forth towards his right (the Prayer Man spot) when describing Sarah's location...


 :D :D :D

More Doyle  BS:

Frazier was doing that with his hand through the entire video.


Look at 34:06 when Frazier says "the lady I was standing next to" and again Frazier gestures to his left where Stanton was standing.

This is the second time Frazier makes certain that Stanton was to his left. In the video posted above, Frazier clearly states "left" where Stanton was standing.

Sarah Stanton is not the prayer figure.   
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Rick Plant on May 11, 2020, 10:50:54 AM
Yep - I've been pointing people to that quote for several years now...

Darnell is the exact moment he is speaking of there and when you look at the Darnell clip it shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man at the exact time he is referencing when he said he had turned to Sarah...

That is PROOF that Sarah is Prayer Man...

Buell Wesley Fraizer refuted your claims Brian. He said Sarah Stanton was to his LEFT and not to his right as you claimed you "proved" . Care to discuss to this or are you going to pretend you still solved the case? 
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 25, 2020, 09:34:03 PM
You may recall that Baker initially said he encountered a man on the 3rd or 4th floor..... Only later did it become the 2nd floor lunchroom.

How do you know for sure what Oswald "admitted to" when there is no verbatim record of his interrogation?

Mrs Reid only saw Oswald coming down the hallway. She had no way of knowing if he had come out of the lunchroom or from the stairs.

I think you're mistaken.

I think Mrs. Reid said that shortly after she entered her large office by its front door, she watched Oswald enter it through the other door (the one nearest the Lunch Room) and walk past her and exit through the door she'd just come through.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on May 25, 2020, 09:51:15 PM
Ron Bulman wrote:

Quote
Going back to Shelley...  I know I've read this before but forgot it I guess.  I came across it a couple of weeks ago in Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After The Fact, laid another book on top of it and forgot about it.  On page 73, from Shelley's affidavit on 11/22/63 (CE 2003, p. 59).

"I heard what sounded like three shots. . . I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. . . I Went Back To the Building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened.  I was on the first floor and I stayed at the elevator.

 . ."Nothing about the rail road yard or side door like he told the Warren Omission.  If he ran across the street to the crying girl then went back in the front door he was not to the elevator about a minute after the assassination when Vicki Adams came down.

He changed his story to fit what was needed, at the behest of someone else.  Kind of like Vicki had her testimony changed to say she had seen Shelley when she came off the stairs on the first floor per Barry Ernst's interview of her in the 90's.


The girl whom Shelley ran in to at the concrete island (Elm St extension) was Carol Reed as can be seen in the Couch/Darnell clip...

Frazier confirmed that Lovelady & Shelley went down to the railyard...

You can see them heading down there in Couch/Darnell...

When Shelley says he went back in to the building he is condensing his going around the west side of the Depository by the railyard and back in to the Depository that way...

The reason Shelley is being so vague about what he did is because after he went back in through the rear he came up to the Lobby and cleared Oswald with a cop and then led him out the back by the Domino Room...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on May 27, 2020, 08:50:24 PM
The girl whom Shelley ran in to at the concrete island (Elm St extension) was Carol Reed as can be seen in the Couch/Darnell clip...

Doyle fabrication.  Shelley said he ran into Gloria Calvery.  There's no evidence in Couch/Darnell or anywhere that Shelley ran into Reed.

Quote
Frazier confirmed that Lovelady & Shelley went down to the railyard...

You can see them heading down there in Couch/Darnell...

You've never proven these figures are Lovelady & Shelley.

Quote
When Shelley says he went back in to the building he is condensing his going around the west side of the Depository by the railyard and back in to the Depository that way...

Pure Doyle fabrication.

Quote
The reason Shelley is being so vague about what he did is because after he went back in through the rear he came up to the Lobby and cleared Oswald with a cop and then led him out the back by the Domino Room...

More pure Doyle fabrication.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on May 29, 2020, 07:37:29 PM
Gordon put Kamp on a posting freeze and Kamp responded by demanding his account be deleted (to which Gordon complied)...

My opinion is that Gordon should have done this sooner when I was posting the correct Prayer Man evidence and ended up getting banned for it under false pretenses...

But the ultimate way to consider this is Gordon is practicing the long-disliked EF tendency to ban in response to issues that could be dealt with otherwise while still preserving good information...

Gordon and the EF are banning themselves in to a corner of uncredibility and damaging their website and its best posters...

So much for JFK research's Enfant Terrible...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on May 29, 2020, 08:44:48 PM
Hello,

Who is this "Gordon" and "Kamp" you always refer to? Do they post here? I have never seen their names on here before. Where can I talk to them? Thanks.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on May 30, 2020, 02:28:28 PM
This is the only place that Doyle hasn’t been permanently banned from, so he uses it as his own personal sounding board about what goes on in every other JFK forum.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on May 31, 2020, 06:09:47 AM
Gordon put Kamp on a posting freeze and Kamp responded by demanding his account be deleted (to which Gordon complied)...

My opinion is that Gordon should have done this sooner when I was posting the correct Prayer Man evidence and ended up getting banned for it under false pretenses...

But the ultimate way to consider this is Gordon is practicing the long-disliked EF tendency to ban in response to issues that could be dealt with otherwise while still preserving good information...

Gordon and the EF are banning themselves in to a corner of uncredibility and damaging their website and its best posters...

So much for JFK research's Enfant Terrible...

Listen.

That you refuse to see evidence for what it is, actual evidence, which he has countered your false claims with, and you, having absolutely nothing backing you up but your innuendos and contrivances of evidence multitudes of times, you know what?

That is solely your fault and no one else's.

You are screaming into the sky now and you can't accept the actual evidence, so you modify your tall tale to make it fit "your" scenario and "your" evidence.

Not the way it works.

And one more item, please stop your incessantly whining about other forums and other forum members along with your little sniveling sessions that get you through the day, as you feel you were somehow "slighted" from being "famous" for your "pioneering research" so you lash out like a small child.

It really isn't a good look for a man of your age to act like a spoiled little brat who never heard the word no as a kid. Grow up already for Chrissakes.

It makes you look like a sniveling, snot nosed spoiled child.

And you are how old?

56?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 31, 2020, 06:46:51 AM
Listen.

That you refuse to see evidence for what it is, actual evidence, which he has countered your false claims with, and you, having absolutely nothing backing you up but your innuendos and contrivances of evidence multitudes of times, you know what?

That is solely your fault and no one else's.

You are screaming into the sky now and you can't accept the actual evidence, so you modify your tall tale to make it fit "your" scenario and "your" evidence.

Not the way it works.

And one more item, please stop your incessantly whining about other forums and other forum members along with your little sniveling sessions that get you through the day, as you feel you were somehow "slighted" from being "famous" for your "pioneering research" so you lash out like a small child.

It really isn't a good look for a man of your age to act like a spoiled little brat who never heard the word no as a kid. Grow up already for Chrissakes.

It makes you look like a sniveling, snot nosed spoiled child.

And you are how old?

56?

Rinaldi,

Listen.

You, with your clever phraseology and insulting attitude, are the Grand Arbiter of what is true and what is not regarding the identity of Prayer Person, etc?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

PS  With whom do you believe black-top and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery is speaking on a lower step in Couch-Darnell?

Lovelady? 

Molina? 

Someone else?

You don't think that's Calvery?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on May 31, 2020, 01:58:32 PM
And you are how old?

56?

60 in September. And still living at his mother’s house.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 31, 2020, 08:00:46 PM
Rinaldi,

Listen.

You, with your clever phraseology and insulting attitude, are the Grand Arbiter of what is true and what is not regarding the identity of Prayer Person, etc?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

PS  With whom do you believe black-top and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery is speaking on a lower step in Couch-Darnell?

Lovelady? 

Molina? 

Someone else?

You don't think that's Calvery?

Rinaldi?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on June 01, 2020, 07:22:15 PM
Rinaldi,

Listen.

You, with your clever phraseology and insulting attitude, are the Grand Arbiter of what is true and what is not regarding the identity of Prayer Person, etc?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

PS  With whom do you believe black-top and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery is speaking on a lower step in Couch-Darnell?

Lovelady? 

Molina? 

Someone else?

You don't think that's Calvery?

You ask too many inane question to be taken seriously. Sorry, it just is what it is. You're a wild eyed child dabbling in JFK Assassination Research, just like your buddy Brian Doyle.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 01, 2020, 08:52:01 PM
You ask too many inane question to be taken seriously. Sorry, it just is what it is. You're a wild eyed child dabbling in JFK Assassination Research, just like your buddy Brian Doyle.

Dear Roman,

Can't you be nice?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on June 01, 2020, 09:25:17 PM
Dear Roman,

Can't you be nice?

--  MWT  ;)

JFK Assassination research is no place to be "nice" especially to someone like you who believes the CIA propaganda line from Nov 23rd on..."The Russians Did It"

You locked onto the very first story the CIA Counter Intel people put out, that "Russia Did It" courtesy of David Atlee Phillips.

Feeling duped yet?
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 01, 2020, 09:32:51 PM

Roman proves the validity of my evidence by being unable to touch it...

His posts are purely ad hom, which is his way of telegraphing that he can't touch my stuff...

Like the Kamp/Parker group he calls clearly seen evidence in photos "innuendos and contrivances"...

No, it is exactly as I describe it as anyone can see...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Otto Beck on June 02, 2020, 10:28:26 AM
Roman proves the validity of my evidence by being unable to touch it...

His posts are purely ad hom, which is his way of telegraphing that he can't touch my stuff...

Like the Kamp/Parker group he calls clearly seen evidence in photos "innuendos and contrivances"...

No, it is exactly as I describe it as anyone can see...

Nobody in their right mind would touch your stuff.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 02, 2020, 06:35:51 PM
I've never heard of "Otto Beck" in the JFK research community...

The more you are incapable of directly addressing my evidence the more you are confirming its un-answerability...

Anyone can see in the photo evidence with their own eyes that it is exactly as I describe it...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Otto Beck on June 02, 2020, 07:32:51 PM
I've never heard of "Otto Beck" in the JFK research community...

The more you are incapable of directly addressing my evidence the more you are confirming its un-answerability...

Anyone can see in the photo evidence with their own eyes that it is exactly as I describe it...

"Photo evidence" -- LOL

Is "my evidence" stuff on this list?

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1749.0.html
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 02, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
JFK Assassination research is no place to be "nice" especially to someone like you who believes the CIA propaganda line from Nov 23rd on..."The Russians Did It"

You locked onto the very first story the CIA Counter Intel people put out, that "Russia Did It" courtesy of David Atlee Phillips.

Feeling duped yet?

Dear Roman,

Oh no, didn't you know the Kremlin had figured it all out within six months, and knew, within an hour of his arrest, that their boy Oswald hadn't done it?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 02, 2020, 08:03:13 PM
Lovelady & Shelley can be seen moving quickly towards the railyard in Couch/Darnell...

I am only looking for serious responses that actually respect and discuss the evidence...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
Roman proves the validity of my evidence by being unable to touch it...

His posts are purely ad hom, which is his way of telegraphing that he can't touch my stuff...

Why would anybody have the desire to touch your steaming pile of BS?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2020, 05:41:29 PM
Lovelady & Shelley can be seen moving quickly towards the railyard in Couch/Darnell...

No, some figures you claim without evidence to be Lovelady and Shelley can be seen in Couch/Darnell.

Quote
I am only looking for serious responses that actually respect and discuss the evidence...

Says the guy with 720 falsehoods and fabrications that he refers to as "evidence".
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 04, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
Lovelady & Shelley can be seen moving quickly towards the railyard in Couch/Darnell...

I am only looking for serious responses that actually respect and discuss the evidence...

Brian,

I believe that if you look very closely at Gerda Dunckel's Couch-Darnel GIF, you can see "Lovelady and Shelly" starting to cross over Elm Street Extension towards the island.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22038-gerda-dunckels-synchronized-couch-and-darnell-clips/

Hard to see in this format.  I'll try to find the blow-up of the split-second "continuation" of the Darnell part that shows this.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 04, 2020, 06:10:15 PM
Brian,

I believe that if you look very closely at Gerda Dunckel's Couch-Darnel GIF, you can see "Lovelady and Shelly" starting to cross over Elm Street Extension towards the island.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22038-gerda-dunckels-synchronized-couch-and-darnell-clips/

Hard to see in this format.  I'll try to find the blow-up of the split-second "continuation" / "overlap" of the Darnell(?) part that shows this.

--  MWT  ;)

Dupe.

Sorry.

--  MWT  ;)

PS  A few minutes ago I came across a post at the EF which shows a slow-motion enlargement of Darnell in which we can see Lovelady turning his head to his right (i.e., towards Prayer Person), and Prayer Person turning his or her head to their left (i.e., towards Lovelady) while Gloria Calvery is talking with a man (Molina?) on a lower step.

I'l try to find it, again, and post the whole thread, if I have to, here.

--  MWT  ;)

Regarding Lovelady and/or Shelley's crossing over Elm Street Extension towards the island in Couch-Darnell, Clive Largey posted that section of Dunckel's GIF at the very top of page five of this thread.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22197-did-gloria-calvery-almost-catch-up-to-marion-baker/page/5/
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 04, 2020, 06:33:51 PM

Lovelady & Shelley are headed up the extension because they are headed towards the Knoll and the place where Gloria Calvery just told them she saw JFK's head blown-off...

Frazier said he tried to follow them but they went so fast up the extension that they lost him so he doubled back to Stanton on the steps to tell her that he didn't find anything out...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 04, 2020, 06:36:22 PM
Lovelady & Shelley are headed up the extension because they are headed towards the Knoll and the place where Gloria Calvery just told them she saw JFK's head blown-off...

Frazier said he tried to follow them but they went so fast up the extension that they lost him so he doubled back to Stanton on the steps to tell her that he didn't find anything out...

Brian,

Edit: Which were they going to first:

1) The Grassy Knoll?

-- or --

2) The place where JFK got his head blown off?

Regardless, why would they walk all the way down Elm Street Extension towards the parking lot /railway yard if one of those two places was their destination?

Isn't that what you're saying?

...

Look at the section of Couch-Darnell that Clive Largey posted at the EF a few years ago (see my previous post), and try not to be so dogmatic.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 04, 2020, 07:57:14 PM

There's a better copy on You Tube...

There's no doubt Lovelady & Shelley were bookin it up to the rail yard because of what they learned from Calvery at the steps...

Frazier said in plain language that they went up there and when he tried to catch up he couldn't...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 04, 2020, 08:02:45 PM
Brian,

Edit: Which were they going to first:

1) The Grassy Knoll?

-- or --

2) The place where JFK got his head blown off?

Regardless, why would they walk all the way down Elm Street Extension towards the parking lot /railway yard if one of those two places was their destination?

Isn't that what you're saying?

...

Look at the section of Couch-Darnell that Clive Largey posted at the EF a few years ago (see my previous post), and try not to be so dogmatic.

--  MWT  ;)

edited

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 04, 2020, 08:05:54 PM
There's a better copy on You Tube...

There's no doubt Lovelady & Shelley were bookin it up to the rail yard because of what they learned from Calvery at the steps...

Frazier said in plain language that they went up there and when he tried to catch up he couldn't...

You got a link you can share with us?

--  MWT  ;)


Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 04, 2020, 09:27:26 PM

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2020, 10:26:35 PM
Frazier said he tried to follow them but they went so fast up the extension that they lost him so he doubled back to Stanton on the steps to tell her that he didn't find anything out...

Bull.  Frazier said nothing of the kind.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2020, 10:27:32 PM
Doesn't even look like they're walking together...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 12:28:44 AM

Brian,

You don't seem to understand the concept.

Whether the clip you posted above was shot by Couch or by Darnell (I tend to get them confused), there is a spit-second continuation of "Lovelady's and/or Shelley's" journey which was filmed by the other photographer (Couch? Darnell??), which very short "segment" can really only be noticed when the Gerda Dunckel combined-combo GIF is viewed in slow motion ... and it appears to show them starting to cross over Elm Street Extension towards the island.

... OR, IF YOU PREFER, BY LOOKING AT THE VERY FIRST "GIF" ON THIS PARTICULAR EDUCATION FORUM PAGE:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22197-did-gloria-calvery-almost-catch-up-to-marion-baker/page/5/

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 01:03:56 AM
Brian,

You don't seem to understand the concept.

Whether the clip you posted above was shot by Couch or by Darnell (I tend to get them confused), there is a spit-second continuation of "Lovelady's and/or Shelley's" journey which was filmed by the other photographer (Couch? Darnell??), which very short "segment" can really only be noticed when the Gerda Dunckel combined-combo GIF is viewed in slow motion ... and it appears to show them starting to cross over Elm Street Extension towards the island.

EDIT: ... OR, IF YOU PREFER, BY LOOKING AT THE VERY FIRST "GIF" ON THIS PARTICULAR EDUCATION FORUM PAGE --

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22197-did-gloria-calvery-almost-catch-up-to-marion-baker/page/5/

-- MWT  ;)

EDITED FOR BRIAN DOYLE

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 05, 2020, 04:05:38 PM

Thomas:    Lovelady & Shelley are headed up the extension in that film clip...

What we are dealing with is the Greg Parker factor where people are entering his crap as the given evidence...

What happened was Gloria Calvery came back hysterical and told the pair she had just seen Kennedy's head blown off and they headed up there in reaction...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
Thomas:    Lovelady & Shelley are headed up the extension in that film clip...

What we are dealing with is the Greg Parker factor where people are entering his crap as the given evidence...

What happened was Gloria Calvery came back hysterical and told the pair she had just seen Kennedy's head blown off and they headed up there in reaction...

Brian,

I'm sorry, but I think you need to deal with the two men crossing over Elm Street Extension in the very short segment of Couch or Darnell that I provided you with.

In it in the background, we can still see "Running Women" (probably Karan Hicks), "booking it" from left to right towards the TSBD, probably to take refuge there and to rendezvous with two of her motorcade-watching colleagues, Gloria Calvery and Carol Reed, both of whom you and I and ... gasp ... Alan Ford ... (and a few others) realize are already on the steps.

Visually-speaking, the timing is perfect for those two guys' being "Lovelady and Shelley".

Since in that very short segment we can no longer see "Lovelady and Shelley" walking / running from right to left in the background, who else could these two guys be?

Hey!  Maybe they decided to make a little detour to the island before resuming their trek down Elm Street Extension to the railway yard / parking lot!

LOL

I don't know what the implications of that (i.e., Lovelady and Shelly crossing over towards the island "about 30 seconds after the assassination") are to all the various conspiracy theories floating around out there regarding Vicki Adams, Sandra Styles, Marion Baker, Roy Truly, Mrs Robert A. Reid, Carolyn Arnold, Big John Dougherty, Manny Moe and Jack, THE VESTIBULE, yadda yadda yadda, but I think you need to look at it it again and "deal with it," even if it does blow your John Armstrong-based theory out of the water.

(Thank God For Small Miracles)

Once again, the Couch-Darnell segment I'm talking about is the very first GIF on this EF page, and thanks to Clive Largey wherever he is for having posted it there a few years ago.

[I will be putting that  "link" here in a few seconds ...]

Here it is:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22197-did-gloria-calvery-almost-catch-up-to-marion-baker/page/5/

--  MWT
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on June 05, 2020, 05:28:42 PM
Brian,

You don't seem to understand the concept.

Whether the clip you posted above was shot by Couch or by Darnell (I tend to get them confused), there is a spit-second continuation of "Lovelady's and/or Shelley's" journey which was filmed by the other photographer (Couch? Darnell??), which very short "segment" can really only be noticed when the Gerda Dunckel combined-combo GIF is viewed in slow motion ... and it appears to show them starting to cross over Elm Street Extension towards the island.

... OR, IF YOU PREFER, BY LOOKING AT THE VERY FIRST "GIF" ON THIS PARTICULAR EDUCATION FORUM PAGE:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22197-did-gloria-calvery-almost-catch-up-to-marion-baker/page/5/

-- MWT  ;)

"Brian,

You don't seem to understand the concept."

Imagine that, Graves telling Doyle that he just doesn't seem to understand the concept.

Pure comedic gold. Thanks for that Tommy.

No really, thank you for that laugh. lol
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 06:36:16 PM
"Brian,

You don't seem to understand the concept."

Imagine that, Graves telling Doyle that he just doesn't seem to understand the concept.

Pure comedic gold. Thanks for that Tommy.

No really, thank you for that laugh. lol

Dear Roman,

(Is your real name Michael "Scumbag" Clark?)

Apparently you can't deal with the substance of the post.

Why is that?

Never heard of Billy Lovelady or Bill Shelley?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  Did you used to read the pro-Communist Italian newspaper Paese Sera, the one the KGB ran disinformation in in 1967 to get Jim Garrison to change the subject of his filmscript-in-progress from "It Was a Homosexual Thrill Kill Conspiracy!" to "The Evil Evil Evil CIA Murdered JFK!"?

If not, you can read about it in this fine article:

https://quillette.com/2018/09/27/the-soviets-and-the-jfk-conspiracy-theorists/

PPS  Do you consider yourself a troll?
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 05, 2020, 06:58:24 PM
Thomas:   That GIF shows Lovelady & Shelley going up to the rail yard as Lovelady & Shelley told of as well as Buell Frazier...

The idea that they went to the concrete island is due to corruption of the evidence caused by Shelley's loose descriptions and Parker's evidence fantasizing...

The reason all this is important is because once you affirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley it precisely orients the timing for Frazier speaking to Stanton...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2020, 07:27:11 PM
The idea that they went to the concrete island is due to corruption of the evidence caused by Shelley's loose descriptions and Parker's evidence fantasizing...

Bull.

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mr. SHELLEY - That little, old side street runs in front of our building and Elm Street.
Mr. BALL - It dead ends?
Mr. SHELLEY - There's concrete between the two streets.
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 07:41:15 PM
Thomas:   That GIF shows Lovelady & Shelley going up to the rail yard as Lovelady & Shelley told of as well as Buell Frazier...

The idea that they went to the concrete island is due to corruption of the evidence caused by Shelley's loose descriptions and Parker's evidence fantasizing...

The reason all this is important is because once you affirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley it precisely orients the timing for Frazier speaking to Stanton...

Dear Brian,

Don't you trust your own eyes in this instance?

Who else could those two guys in that short segment of Couch-Darnell that I posted -- well, gave an EF link to, actually, because I don't know how "copy and paste" Clive Largey's EF GIF here, directly -- (is it even possible, Roman Rinaldi?) -- BE, if not the same "Lovelady and Shelley" we see walking/running down Elm Street Extension immediately before that?

As far as the "timing" is concerned, regardless of anyone's faulty memory (aka "sinister intent"), AND DESPITE WHAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE SAID, why couldn't Lovelady and Shelley have still been on the steps (or have just left them but still been within earshot of what was bellowed out there) when Big Gloria Calvery (with Carol Reed perhaps trailing a little behind) ran up to the TSBD and started belting out what she'd witnessed to practically-bald Joe Molina on a lower step -- and all the others assembled there (including up there on the left, B. W. Frazier and "Prayer Person" Stanton, whom we can see turning their heads towards each other a few seconds after Lovelady and Shelley had left the steps) in a slow-motion enlargement of that Couch-Darnell-captured scene?

Because you think Marion Baker must have immediately started running towards the steps just as soon as he got his motorcycle parked?  Is that it?

Anything else?
...

I reiterate:

Who else to those two guys be?

Please prove it to me that they were Abbott and Costello, or The Lone Ranger and Tonto ...

... OR WHOMEVER ... even "somebody else"!

I really don't care who they turn out to be if not L and S.

Since I'm not a tinfoil hat-wearing Conspiracy Theorist (like you), why should I have a dog in this fight as to who they "really are"?

In a way, I'm just like non-committal John "It Isn't Real Evidence if it Tends to Implicate Oswald" Iacoletti -- except that I really AM just trying to get to the cold, hard facts of the case as open-mindely as I can.

I other words -- I try to NOT throw the baby out with the dirty, dirty bathwater.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 05, 2020, 08:26:46 PM

We need to put an end to the endless t****ing and Greg Parker-based questioning of the plainly evident in the Darnell film...

The men seen going up the extension in Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...

Larsen matched the plaid bars in the man's shirt to Lovelady's plaid bars on his shirt...Kamp matched the bald spot...There's no doubt it is Lovelady...

The man who pulls-up and talks to Karen Hicks as she darts by is Shelley...In the best close-up copies you can see Shelley's duck's ass and white shirt collar on this man...

Shelley claimed the person he spoke to by the concrete island was Calvery but it was actually Hicks...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 08:34:18 PM
We need to put an end to the endless t****ing and Greg Parker-based questioning of the plainly evident in the Darnell film...

The men seen going up the extension in Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...

Larsen matched the plaid bars in the man's shirt to Lovelady's plaid bars on his shirt...Kamp matched the bald spot...There's no doubt it is Lovelady...

The man who pulls-up and talks to Karen Hicks as she darts by is Shelley...In the best close-up copies you can see Shelley's duck's ass and white shirt collar on this man...

Shelley claimed the person he spoke to by the concrete island was Calvery but it was actually Hicks...

Dear Brian,

I'm knockin' myself out here, and you give me a non-responsive answer?

What's up with that?

Once again, who could those two guys be (in Clive Largey's or whomever's Couch-Darnell GIF that I gave you a "link" to, above), Brian Doyle?

I'm afraid you're losing some credibility, here, dude.

(sarcasm)

And it's all because you're wedded to "Harvey and Lee," really.

As in ... welded.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 05, 2020, 09:02:24 PM

The men seen briskly walking up the Elm St extension in Couch/Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...

They are headed to the rail yard by the parking lot...

They then went back in to the Depository via the back NW rear entrance...
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 05, 2020, 09:07:40 PM
The men seen briskly walking up the Elm St extension in Couch/Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...

They are headed to the rail yard by the parking lot...

They then went back in to the Depository via the back NW rear entrance...

Dear Brian,

Have you watched Clive Largey's very short Couch-Darnell GIF?

I've posted the EF "link" to it a couple of times, already, on this thread.

Shall I post it here, again?

Couldn't Lovelady and Shelley (if that's who those two guys are -- and, fwiw, I believe it is) have taken a really, really short little detour to "the island" before they continued on down Elm Street Extension the way you want them to?

What's wrong with that?

Fatal to your Tinfoil-Hat, John Armstrong-based Conspiracy Theory for some reason?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2020, 09:08:28 PM
We need to put an end to the endless t****ing and Greg Parker-based questioning of the plainly evident in the Darnell film...

Just because your made-up BS is “plainly evident” to you doesn’t mean that it’s true.


Quote
The man who pulls-up and talks to Karen Hicks as she darts by is Shelley...

You have exactly ZERO evidence that Shelley talked to Karan Hicks. It’s just made-up Doyle BS.
Title: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Brian Doyle on June 05, 2020, 10:52:14 PM
Couldn't Lovelady and Shelley (if that's who those two guys are -- and, fwiw, I believe it is) have taken a really, really short little detour to "the island" before they continued on down Elm Street Extension the way you want them to?

What's wrong with that?

They would not have been inspired by Calvery to go see where the president's head was blown off, and possibly see what agency connections may have been exposed, only to take a useless detour to the concrete island...

They are bookin it to the rail yard because of what Calvery told them but also because the crowd was swarming there...

They returned quickly inside because that was where they worked but also where Shelley knew he had to do spook duties...

Title: Re: Proof Sarah Stanton Is Prayer Man
Post by: Roman Rinaldi on June 05, 2020, 11:18:01 PM
The men seen briskly walking up the Elm St extension in Couch/Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...

They are headed to the rail yard by the parking lot...

They then went back in to the Depository via the back NW rear entrance...

Nope. It's Billy Lovelady and Danny Arce. Now prove to us that it isn't.