JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on September 29, 2019, 06:43:17 PM
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The mad charade by Garrison in New Orleans never made any sense to me. I just finished reading an eye opening book by Patricia Lambert: “False Witness” that tells the real story of Jim Garrison’s investigation and Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.”
If you have read this book, I would be interested in your thoughts about it. If not, I highly recommend this book.
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The mad charade by Garrison in New Orleans never made any sense to me. I just finished reading an eye opening book by Patricia Lambert: “False Witness” that tells the real story of Jim Garrison’s investigation and Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.”
If you have read this book, I would be interested in your thoughts about it. If not, I highly recommend this book.
It's a pretty stunning look into the recklessness of Garrison as it details the almost weekly absurd claims that he made as to who was behind the assassination. I didn't learn much of anything new but it's remarkable reading the book how easily Garrison jumped from claim to claim. She has a section near the end where she chronicles the wild theories that he put forth. It's interesting that in all of his claims Garrison never once connected organized crime to the murder. Pretty interesting.
And if I recall correctly she believed there was a conspiracy behind the assassination of JFK and that the mob was involved. So she wasn't a lone assassin believer (Lambert died I believe either this year or last year).
As to the Shaw matter: This never made a lick of sense to me. Garrison's claim was that Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald first planned the assassination at a party that they attended. Apparently they discussed it openly with all sorts of people around them. No they wouldn't. Then somehow these three individuals got major elements of the CIA to go along with their scheme. No they wouldn't either. Then after pulling this all off Shaw calls an attorney (Dean Andrews) and requests that he defend Oswald. No he wouldn't.
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It is a pretty stunning look into the recklessness of Garrison as it details the almost weekly absurd claims that he made as to who was behind the assassination. I didn't learn much of anything new but it's remarkable reading the book how easily Garrison jumped from claim to claim. She has a section near the end where she chronicles the wild theories that he put forth. It's interesting that in all of his claims Garrison never once connected organized crime to the murder. Pretty interesting.
And if I recall correctly she believed there was a conspiracy behind the assassination of JFK and that the mob was involved. So she wasn't a lone assassin believer (Lambert died I believe either this year or last year).
As to the Shaw matter: This never made a lick of sense to me. Garrison's claim was that Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald first planned the assassination at a party that they attended. Apparently they discussed it openly with all sorts of people around them. No they wouldn't. Then somehow these three individuals got major elements of the CIA to go along with their scheme. No they wouldn't either. Then after pulling this all off Shaw calls an attorney (Dean Andrews) and requests that he defend Oswald. No he wouldn't.
Patricia Lambert sets the record straight by citing what really happened and backing up her accounts with proper documentation.
Garrison is exposed for what he really was. Here is a passage that I have to agree with (after reading her book):
...Shaw was acquitted. But Garrison launched a new offensive. Judge Christenberry ended the game and convicted Garrison. But Garrison turned to his typewriter and reinterpreted his fall. Examining the real record of Jim Garrison’s investigation is like viewing up close the mangled wreckage of a high-speed car crash. In his book, Garrison reshaped that wreckage into a brand new vehicle, the latest model, irresistible, gleaming on the showroom floor. Oliver Stone climbed in and drove it home.
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Patricia Lambert sets the record straight by citing what really happened and backing up her accounts with proper documentation.
Garrison is exposed for what he really was. Here is a passage that I have to agree with (after reading her book):
...Shaw was acquitted. But Garrison launched a new offensive. Judge Christenberry ended the game and convicted Garrison. But Garrison turned to his typewriter and reinterpreted his fall. Examining the real record of Jim Garrison’s investigation is like viewing up close the mangled wreckage of a high-speed car crash. In his book, Garrison reshaped that wreckage into a brand new vehicle, the latest model, irresistible, gleaming on the showroom floor. Oliver Stone climbed in and drove it home.
The irony is that Stone's movie "JFK" led to the congressional act which in turn led to the release of many of the Garrison files on his investigation into the assassination (or whatever the hell he was doing). And Lambert (and others) have used those files to reveal the absurdities that Garrison went through. So some of Garrison's undoing can be directly traced to Olive Stone's efforts (and remember: Garrison said that Shaw conspired with Oswald - Lee Oswald - to kill JFK. Nowhere in Stone's movie does he mention this).
To be fair to the conspiracy crowd (some of them), many of the leading conspiracy authors like Lifton and Weisberg and even Mark Lane (probably the most dishonest of all of the conspiracy believers) criticized Garrison's investigation.
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The irony is that Stone's movie "JFK" led to the congressional act which in turn led to the release of many of the Garrison files on his investigation into the assassination (or whatever the hell he was doing). And Lambert (and others) have used those files to reveal the absurdities that Garrison went through. So some of Garrison's undoing can be directly traced to Olive Stone's efforts (and remember: Garrison said that Shaw conspired with Oswald - Lee Oswald - to kill JFK. Nowhere in Stone's movie does he mention this).
To be fair to the conspiracy crowd (some of them), many of the leading conspiracy authors like Lifton and Weisberg and even Mark Lane (probably the most dishonest of all of the conspiracy believers) criticized Garrison's investigation.
Yes, Patricia does a good job of pointing out the ironies too. Stone’s film did what you said. Ironically, the reason that it succeeded in that is because so many people believe that the story that the film told is true!
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Oh boy! Another book..another distraction. Reminds me of the guy that jumped off a 20 story building--19 floors down he says to himself "I don't see any problems so far" ;)
Garrison demonstrated in court that the Warren Report was a lie. It was.
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Oh boy! Another book..another distraction. Reminds me of the guy that jumped off a 20 story building--19 floors down he says to himself "I don't see any problems so far" ;)
Garrison demonstrated in court that the Warren Report was a lie. It was.
This book was first published in 1998. If you want to learn about the real investigation, it is well worth a read. Garrison only demonstrated in court that he was out of his mind.
Edit: Additionally, Judge Herbert W. Christenberry, in 1971, enjoined Orleans Parish District Attorney Jim Garrison from continuing to prosecute Clay L. Shaw for alleged perjury and other criminal charges after Garrison's unsuccessful trial of Shaw for conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy on grounds that Garrison was engaging in unconstitutional prosecutorial misconduct.
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This book was first published in 1998. If you want to learn about the real investigation, it is well worth a read. Garrison only demonstrated in court that he was out of his mind.
I didn't claim it was a new book. I only mention that it was just another one. Milton Brener's The Garrison Case came out in 1969...said essentially the same thing 22 years earlier. Yeah...the Garrison case was a fiasco. Take a look at politics today and someone tell me it isn't upside down, inside out, and totally backwards. The back stabbing has only just begun.
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I didn't claim it was a new book. I only mention that it was just another one. Milton Brener's The Garrison Case came out in 1969...said essentially the same thing 22 years earlier. Yeah...the Garrison case was a fiasco. Take a look at politics today and someone tell me it isn't upside down, inside out, and totally backwards. The back stabbing has only just begun.
Here is the conclusion of W. Tracy Parnell’s review of the book “False Witness” by Patricia Lambert. I found the review on the jfkassassination.net website. I wholeheartedly agree with the review, especially the conclusion that it should be required reading.
Parnell,s Conclusion:
Patricia Lambert has done a tremendous service with the publication of False Witness. This book should be required reading for anyone seeing JFK; in fact, they should sell it at Blockbuster Video. I believe that the opinion of Stone and his film among the general public would be much different if it were. Stone knew, however, that the average movie-goer (especially generation “X” types) would not be knowledgeable about the subject, and he would be free to rewrite history.
Stone’s motive in all this? Money, of course, but also he sought in this film (as he had in Nixon and Born on the Fourth of July, among others) to inject meaning into his own Vietnam experience. Garrison’s motive in prosecuting Shaw in the first place? Most likely, he sought publicity that he hoped would help him attain higher office.
In addition to the material discussed in this review, Lambert adds a full chapter on the Christenberry decision in which Garrison was prevented from further prosecution of Shaw. Also included is an appendix, which lists the many lies and distortions of Garrison’s book On the Trail of the Assassins.
In False Witness, Lambert shows without a doubt that Jim Garrison’s case against Clay Shaw was completely without merit. She also demonstrates that any film based on this miscarriage of justice would be congenitally flawed This is a landmark work and should be required reading for anyone studying the assassination of John F. Kennedy, particularly Garrison’s investigation.
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Patricia Lambert sets the record straight by citing what really happened and backing up her accounts with proper documentation.
Garrison is exposed for what he really was. Here is a passage that I have to agree with (after reading her book):
...Shaw was acquitted. But Garrison launched a new offensive. Judge Christenberry ended the game and convicted Garrison. But Garrison turned to his typewriter and reinterpreted his fall. Examining the real record of Jim Garrison’s investigation is like viewing up close the mangled wreckage of a high-speed car crash. In his book, Garrison reshaped that wreckage into a brand new vehicle, the latest model, irresistible, gleaming on the showroom floor. Oliver Stone climbed in and drove it home.
Charles,
Would that be Oliver "I Like KGB-Boy Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone?
-- MWT ;)
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Charles,
Would that be Oliver "I Like KGB-Boy Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone?
-- MWT ;)
In my opinion, Oliver Stone’s film “JFK” has more in common with Milos Foreman’s film “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” than the JFK assassination. I have wondered if Oliver Stone has read Patricia Lambert’s book “False Witness.”
I am in the process of writing a letter to Ken Burns requesting that he consider producing a new documentary about the Garrison investigation and recommending Patricia Lambert’s excellent book as a reference. I think that his work would reach a much larger audience than the book. And I believe that would be a good “antidote” to Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.” He is very busy though, and I think that additional similar requests might help the chances of this becoming a reality. So please consider making your own request to Ken Burns. The address is:
Florentine Films
PO Box 613
Walpole, NH 03608
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Oh boy! Another book..another distraction. Reminds me of the guy that jumped off a 20 story building--19 floors down he says to himself "I don't see any problems so far" ;)
Garrison demonstrated in court that the Warren Report was a lie. It was.
In court, Garrison claimed that Oswald conspired with Shaw and Ferrie and unnamed others to murder JFK.
None of that is true. There is/was no even remotely credible evidence that Garrison presented that those three planned to murder JFK at some party with people listening in (unless you believe one of Perry Russo's ever-changing stories). It's absurd to think that anyone would do such a reckless and stupid thing. Plan to kill the president with strangers listening? And then actually do it? C'mon.
I don't think you believe any of that.
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The mad charade by Garrison in New Orleans never made any sense to me. I just finished reading an eye opening book by Patricia Lambert: “False Witness” that tells the real story of Jim Garrison’s investigation and Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.”
If you have read this book, I would be interested in your thoughts about it. If not, I highly recommend this book.
It is fairly obvious that Garrison suffered from mental illness. He paranoid and delusional. He was also a narcissist with a desire for attention. The real irony with Garrison is that he engaged in all the misconduct that CTers allege that the WC did in confirming Oswald's guilt. He coerced witnesses, lied, knowingly used perjured testimony, and even facilitated such when it suited his purposes. A complete and disgraceful abuse of power. Even many CTers have come to recognize the harm he has done to their cause with his nonsense which is saying a great deal given how far out many such individuals are in their own beliefs.
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It is fairly obvious that Garrison suffered from mental illness. He paranoid and delusional. He was also a narcissist with a desire for attention. The real irony with Garrison is that he engaged in all the misconduct that CTers allege that the WC did in confirming Oswald's guilt. He coerced witnesses, lied, knowingly used perjured testimony, and even facilitated such when it suited his purposes. A complete and disgraceful abuse of power. Even many CTers have come to recognize the harm he has done to their cause with his nonsense which is saying a great deal given how far out many such individuals are in their own beliefs.
Some of the same people who complain about Oswald's "rights" being denied him, about not being allowed a defense by the Warren Commission have no problem apparently with Garrison stating in open court that Oswald was one of the murderers conspirators involved in the murder of JFK.
Garrison made all sorts of bizarre claims out of court about Oswald - that he was gay (not something you'd want to be called in 1967), that he was part of a "homosexual thrill kill", that he was really a secret neo-Nazi fascist - and the Oswald defenders still defend Garrison.
But again to be fair: some of the leading conspiracy authors like Lifton and Lane condemned what he did.
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It is fairly obvious that Garrison suffered from mental illness. He paranoid and delusional. He was also a narcissist with a desire for attention. The real irony with Garrison is that he engaged in all the misconduct that CTers allege that the WC did in confirming Oswald's guilt. He coerced witnesses, lied, knowingly used perjured testimony, and even facilitated such when it suited his purposes. A complete and disgraceful abuse of power. Even many CTers have come to recognize the harm he has done to their cause with his nonsense which is saying a great deal given how far out many such individuals are in their own beliefs.
More than fairly obvious. The military records show that he was definitely diagnosed as having mental problems.
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More than fairly obvious. The military records show that he was definitely diagnosed as having mental problems.
Yes, but as Lambert pointed out he had a lot of people going along with him. It wasn't just him.
If you read the notes/accounts of the conferences he had with his assistants/staff, it's bizarro land. He makes these outrageous claims - based on the latest "witness" he met or heard from - and everyone else in the room just goes along. Even though the latest claim is completely at odds with what he claimed the month before. A few of his people got fed up and left; but most of them just merrily went along.
As a side note: I know we don't want to get into politics here but Donald Trump sounds a lot like Garrison. Sorry to the Trump supporters but that's how I see it.
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Yes, but as Lambert pointed out he had a lot of people going along with him. It wasn't just him.
If you read the notes/accounts of the conferences he had with his assistants/staff, it's bizarro land. He makes these outrageous claims - based on the latest "witness" he met or heard from - and everyone else in the room just goes along. Even though the latest claim is completely at odds with what he claimed the month before. A few of his people got fed up and left; but most of them just merrily went along.
As a side note: I know we don't want to get into politics here but Donald Trump sounds a lot like Garrison. Sorry to the Trump supporters but that's how I see it.
Lambert’s book indicates to me that Sciambra was more than just going along. In my opinion, he might have even been as guilty of misconduct as Garrison.
I stay away from politics discussions. However, I come from a part of the country where Trump is a hero and can do no wrong. So it all depends on who’s propaganda you pay attention to...
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Clay Shaw was not found to be involved in a conspiracy... therefore there was no conspiracy. What an excellent analogy.
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Fred Litwin's upcoming Garrison book should be a real hum-dinger. He's been sharing some outstanding document finds on Facecrook. Looking forward to his findings.
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Fred Litwin's upcoming Garrison book should be a real hum-dinger. He's been sharing some outstanding document finds on Facecrook. Looking forward tot his findings.
Thanks
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However, I come from a part of the country where Trump is a hero and can do no wrong. So it all depends on who’s propaganda you pay attention to...
Presumably from alligator and snake country.....a Moot point?
Clinton almost impeached for one and now Trump for Whistle blow job.
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In my opinion, Oliver Stone’s film “JFK” has more in common with Milos Foreman’s film “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” than the JFK assassination. I have wondered if Oliver Stone has read Patricia Lambert’s book “False Witness.”
I am in the process of writing a letter to Ken Burns requesting that he consider producing a new documentary about the Garrison investigation and recommending Patricia Lambert’s excellent book as a reference. I think that his work would reach a much larger audience than the book. And I believe that would be a good “antidote” to Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.” He is very busy though, and I think that additional similar requests might help the chances of this becoming a reality. So please consider making your own request to Ken Burns. The address is:
Florentine Films
PO Box 613
Walpole, NH 03608
I am wondering if your opinion of author Lambert and her book, "False Witness," flies in the face of the facts...
https://web.archive.org/web/20161103035104/tomscully.com/node/17
Has Everyone Sold Out? More Questions than Answers About George White and James Phelan, et al
Submitted by Tom Scully on Sun, 01/17/2016 - 02:19
.....
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/10/news/mn-30846
James Phelan; Investigative Reporter, Author
September 10, 1997
....
"He was a dying breed," writer Patricia Lambert, a close friend, ... "The world is a sadder, barren place" without him.
..........
Cliff Notes version: The belief systems of both LNs and CTs are unresponsive to the actual evidence. No one even wants to discuss this entirely reasonable conclusion despite the actual facts. And you certainly do not want to discuss or even evaluate these underpinnings of your own belief system. You are typical and no serious inquiry/evaluation can take place, so any further progress is highly unlikely.
…….
IOW, Garrison may have been investigating something, and Clay Shaw may have been a defendant, but neither, when you actually look under the hood, actually acted their part.
Posted by (The late, perceptive) Thomas H. Purvis July 19, 2013
.....The "power structure" within New Orleans lies not with those who are currently in what is some temporary political position.
It lies with those who possess the capability to place these persons in the various political positions.
Therefore, Jim Garrison, not unlike any other political figure in New Orleans, did what he was instructed to do or else he suffered the consequences....
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Presumably from alligator and snake country.....a Moot point?
Clinton almost impeached for one and now Trump for Whistle blow job.
Not to be too pedantic but Clinton was impeached. The House of Representatives impeaches - that is, brings up charges that are deemed worthy of removal; that is indicts the person - and the Senate then has a trial over those charges. Andrew Johnson was the other president to be impeached. But like Clinton he was acquitted by the Senate (by one vote).
Most people think the same will happen here since the Republicans control the Senate and it will be difficult to find the 20 or votes needed to convict (conviction requires 2/3s vote).
The country doesn't need this but democracy is never going to be pretty (Brexit anyone?). As the saying goes, fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy flight.
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Not to be too pedantic but Clinton was impeached. The House of Representatives impeaches - that is, brings up charges that are deemed worthy of removal; that is indicts the person - and the Senate then has a trial over those charges. Andrew Johnson was the other president to be impeached. But like Clinton he was acquitted by the Senate (by one vote).
Most people think the same will happen hear since the Republicans control the Senate and it will be difficult to find 20 votes to convict (conviction requires 2/3s vote).
Thanks for correcting me Steve, I should have researched and not relied on memory......not sure what is the scarier outcome in this instance.
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Thanks for correcting me Steve, I should have researched and not relied on memory......not sure what is the scarier outcome in this instance.
No problem, many Americans - even reporters - make the same mistake all of the time. It's an odd word to use - impeachment - when it's really just indictment.
The scariest for me is that he's convicted and then runs for the Presidency again and is elected. The Senate can disqualify an officer (President, Judge) from holding future office; so we may see them try to do this (swell).
The Founders were brilliant men (yes, they compromised over the evil of slavery but what was the alternative at that time?) but would be perplexed at how to handle constitutionally someone like Trump. He's clearly unsuited for office, is a disgrace, a narcissitic thug, but I'm not quite persuaded that his acts warrant removal. I'd like him out of office but I want to do so in a fair manner. His supporters are wrong; but they're Americans too who have a voice in this.
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Thanks for correcting me Steve, I should have researched and not relied on memory......not sure what is the scarier outcome in this instance.
Colin, an opportunity has presented itself here to have a facts supported discussion centering on Garrison, his investigation, and the money that supported it.
I hope you will participate in your evenhanded, scholarly way I appreciate is unusual around here.
1938... Willard E Robertson was a 30 year old store clerk selling suits adjacent to the Yale Univ. campus in Connecticut.
1944... Willard E Robertson, after brief stints managing a sandwich shop and then a tavern, both adjacent to the Yale Univ. campus in Connecticut,
Robertson was listed in the regional directory employed as a "woodworker" at a defense plant owned by Allen Dulles Princeton, 1914, classmate, Jack Churchward, located in an adjacent town.
Hypothetically, o'course!.....(Just talking "out of school")
I have always thought. "Follow the Money" was basic, obvious. Oliver Stone spent $43 million, Harold Weissberg authored
book after book. Then came Davy, Mellen, DiEugenio, and Morley. Which of them, if any, delved into the money behind both INCA
and the Garrison investigation and prosecution of Clay Shaw?...
…..
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/219917526/
Willard E. Robertson SHREVEPORT Private Kimilv services (or Willord E. Robertson, a recent resident o Shreveport, were held at 11 a m, on Mondav October 31, at the tomilv home Grevstone on Beaver Lake near Rogers, Ark. Mr Robertson died at Ochsner Foundation Hosoitol in New Orleans ot 10 a m on Saturday, October 29. 1983, (oliowingashort Illness Interment will be in the family mausoleum. Mr. Robertson, born on May 16, 1908 in Conwov, NH, was a well-known business and civic leader in Shreveport as well as in Rogers, Ark. and New Orleans, La. He was educated in Exeter, N.H. and Northeast University of Low in Boston, Mass. Mr. Robertson wos assistant to the president ot Church, Ward & Co. in New Haven, Conn. In 1948.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardChurchwardDulles.jpg)
…..
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No problem, many Americans - even reporters - make the same mistake all of the time. It's an odd word to use - impeachment - when it's really just indictment.
The scariest for me is that he's convicted and then runs for the Presidency again and is elected.
The Founders were brilliant men (yes, they compromised over the evil of slavery but what was the alternative at that time?) but would be perplexed at how to handle constitutionally someone like Trump. He's clearly unsuited for office, is a disgrace, a narcissitic thug, but I'm not quite persuaded that his acts warrant removal. I'd like him out of office but I want to do so in a fair manner. His supporters are wrong; but they're Americans too who have a voice in this.
Looking from afar I wonder how you go from "ask not what your country...." and "we choose to go to the moon..." to the self serving gibberish of the present occupant? As an Australian I apologise for the influence of Rupert on all of us.
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Colin, an opportunity has presented itself here to have a facts supported discussion centering on Garrison, his investigation, and the money that supported it.
I hope you will participate in your evenhanded, scholarly way I appreciate is unusual around here.
1938... Willard E Robertson was a 30 year old store clerk selling suits adjacent to the Yale Univ. campus in Connecticut.
1944... Willard E Robertson, after brief stints managing a sandwich shop and then a tavern, both adjacent to the Yale Univ. campus in Connecticut,
Robertson was listed in the regional directory employed as a "woodworker" at a defense plant owned by Allen Dulles Princeton, 1914, classmate, Jack Churchward, located in an adjacent town.
Apologies for the derail Tom....I will not comment further in this thread about Trump.
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Apologies for the derail Tom....I will not comment further in this thread about Trump.
Colin, I am not in "monitor mode"....I was inclined to point out to you the fact Steve posted of. My comment to you
was a plea. Posters here willing to discuss the dubious (uncorroborated) claims of Patsy Ruth Billings Lambert....
(anyone ever seen a pic or vid of her or point me to any live presentation by this evidently highly regarded author?)
....but no discussion ever ensues in reaction to what I actually have proven. In fact, DiEugenio, instead of arguing facts I unearthed, which are impossible to refute, instead associated me with Max Holland.
I genuinely seek your reaction to my facts suggesting Garrison and Shaw may have been on the same side!
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Colin, I am not in "monitor mode"....I was inclined to point out to you the fact Steve posted of. My comment to you
was a plea. Posters here willing to discuss the dubious (uncorroborated) claims of Patsy Ruth Billings Lambert....
(anyone ever seen a pic or vid of her or point me to any live presentation by this evidently highly regarded author?)
....but no discussion ever ensues in reaction to what I actually have proven. In fact, DiEugenio, instead of arguing facts I unearthed, which are impossible to refute, instead associated me with Max Holland.
I genuinely seek your reaction to my facts suggesting Garrison and Shaw may have been on the same side!
To be honest Tom I have never delved much into the Garrison case much at all. I have focussed much of my efforts on the key witness documents that are available to all at NARA. I know that you are suspicious of his motivation. I am aware of some of the various components of Garrison's work, through the works of Anthony Summers, eg the 544 Camp St./Bannister/Ferrie claims and Clinton sighting.
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To be honest Tom I have never delved much into the Garrison case much at all. I have focussed much of my efforts on the key witness documents that are available to all at NARA. I know that you are suspicious of his motivation. I am aware of some of the various components of Garrison's work, through the works of Anthony Summers, eg the 544 Camp St./Bannister/Ferrie claims and Clinton sighting.
Colin, I appreciate your reply. Maybe my nose is simply too sensitive. Author Lambert has been quite close to two people. Lifton and Phelan.
Phelan was taught the newspaper biz by his employer of ten years, by 1945, an uncle of Clark Clifford.
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Alton Evening Telegraph ? 21 December 1950 ? Page 18
....Miss Margaret Clifford Weds in Chevy Chase The marriage of Lt. William
Henry Lanagan, jr., United States Marine Corps, and Miss Margaret
Pepperell Clifford, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Clark, McAdams Clifford, were
married Wednesday at 4 o'clock in All Saints Episcopal Church, Chevy
Chase, Md. A reception was held at the recently acquired estate of the
Cliffords, 8551 Rockville Pike, Bethesda, Md., after the wedding. Guests
included the bride's paternal grandmother, Mrs. Frank A. Clifford of St.
Louis, and uncle, William D. McAdams of New York.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/16331176/
ALTON EVENING TELEGRAPH WEDNESDAY. DECEMBER 24, 1941, PAGE EIGHTEEN A Very To Everyone From the ENTIRE STAFF Executives Paul B. Cousley Paul S. Cousley John D. McAdams, Jr. Henry McAdams Advertising Department L A. Sharkey Averil Schenk Richard Cousley R. H. Howscr Harold Brand William Bierbaum William Dale Robert Scott |H| Business ^ Office Alice Schreibcr Frances Haxelton Dorothy Gibbons Nina Dale Meszaros Ceraldine Mawdsley News Office Mildred West Amelia Ringemann Fred Norton J. j. Dromgoolc Ruth HaRoram William Ryan L. M. f aggart Cut Tibbitt Ernest Potts George Leighty Walter Tietsort Robert Craul Leland Heppner W. D. Brunner Mary Pfeiffenberger James Phelan Circulation Department Richard Howser Sam Seibold Ted Lane Ray Smith Carl Clark Richard McLarte George White Ted Catt John White Paul Vine A. r Wilson B. M. Harrod F. M. Sanders Also 175 Carriers and Agents Mechanical Department....
INGERSOLL BUYS ALTON TELEGRAPH - Chicago Tribune
https://www.chicagotribune.com › ct-xpm-1985-05-23-8502010803-story
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1985-05-23-8502010803-story.html
May 23, 1985 - The Cousleys have controlled the 150-year-old Telegraph since 1889, while the ... the Alton Telegraph, the 14th-largest daily newspaper in Illinois. ... in the Alton Telegraph Printing Co. in January from the McAdams family, ...
That uncle, was the brother of William D. McAdams.
McAdams's widowed wife, in 1964, just happened to be married to Marina and Priscilla's bodyguard, furnished by Priscilla's first cousin, CIA officer David C Davenport (according to Sam Ballen, supported by description in Davenport's own obit of a "career in intelligence").
Without Reservations: From Harlem to the End of the Santa Fe ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=Yix6AAAAMAAJ&q=same+ballen+%22david+davenport+was+a+former+cia+man%22&dq=same+ballen+%22david+davenport+was+a+former+cia+man%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixyoWluoDlAhUHOa0KHeV1CZkQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg)
Samuel B. Ballen - 2001 -
Found inside - Page 265
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBallen.jpg)
December, 1964 photo:
'Marina and Lee' author, 85, one of few that knew both ...
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293
Nov 21, 2013 - Marina Oswald (left), widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, with friend Jerre Hastings (center) and Priscilla Johnson McMillan. McMillan befriended ...
1940 U.S. Census snippet of a household in New Trier (Winnetka)Illinois:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tXbbdVGZ0gk/UYOxgcMPHSI/AAAAAAAABB8/3vCZ7manKpc/s1280/PriscillaHastyMcAdams1940CensusNewTrierILL.jpg)
Clark Clifford's first cousin, Joan McAdams, in 1965:
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/35602601/
….Miss Me Adams, who is not represented by an attorney in the suit
relates in the complaint that she had come to Santa Fe to visit her
mother, Mrs. Marguerite McAdams Hasty, and her mother’s husband, Jerome
Hasty, and David Davenport, a friend of Hasty, induced her to consult Dr.
Roscnbaum. As a result, she claims, the sheriff of Sazita Fc County, Perez
Roybal, arrested her without a warrant and she was transported lo
the-State Hospital at Las- Vegas, where she \vas incaceratcd from July 28,
1965 to August 15, …
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QP7Y7FFiUSU/UXDF-gVFmBI/AAAAAAAAA8M/G8lNTcIcos4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyLawsuit1967_1of2.jpg)
(http://1954 Obit:)
Notice a name discrepancy, Hasty vs Hastings? Covered!: (in 1966)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qdSAs_XwtTc/UXIny-MCVFI/AAAAAAAAA8s/1q5I4NBVwU4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyToHastingsNameChangeNotice100366.jpg)
Here is an recent article on the man who bought the Mary Ferrell archive and loaned David Lifton many thousands for a still never published book.
This "generous" tycoon-buffoon is the son of a Kodak Research Laboratory director.
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/11/16/oliver-curme-marijuana-hearing-mocks-cancer-ptsd/
Boston Millionaire Mocks Cancer Patients, PTSD, and the Disabled at Medical Marijuana Hearing
-
Colin, ?I appreciate your reply. Maybe my nose is simply too sensitive. Author Lambert has been quite close to two people. Lifton and Phelan.
Phelan was taught the newspaper biz by his employer of ten years, by 1945, an uncle of Clark Clifford. That uncle, was the brother of William D. McAdams.
McAdams's widowed wife, in 1964, just happened to be married to Marina and Priscilla's bodyguard, furnished by Priscilla's first cousin, CIA officer David C Davenport (according to Sam Ballen, supported by description in Davenport's own obit of a "career in intelligence).
Here is an recent article on the man who bought the Mary Ferrell archive and loaned David Lifton many thousands for a still never published book.
This "generous" tycoon-buffoon is the son of a Kodak Research Laboratory director.
Tom: These "connections" are potentially interesting but Lambert's claims in her book stand or fall based on the evidence she presents and not whether she had some sort of relationship with "X" or "Y."
I think your theory that, if I understand it, Garrison's investigation was some sort of deliberate "sham" meant to distract or divert attention from the real murderers and/or a real investigation is incredibly weak.
Assuming for the sake of your argument that it WAS intended to divert attention away from a followup investigation to the WC how is Lambert exposing Garrison's investigation as a fraud more than 30 years later part of this, well, conspiracy? Doesn't her exposure support your theory that Garrison never intended to go after the "real murderers" of JFK? And exposing him three decades later? For what purpose? I don't see how her work supports your hypothesis.
As to Lambert: I believe she died last year from cancer. Or perhaps this year. Recently.
-
Tom: These "connections" are potentially interesting but Lambert's claims in her book stand or fall based on the evidence she presents and not whether she had some sort of relationship with "X" or "Y."
I think your theory that, if I understand it, Garrison's investigation was some sort of deliberate "sham" meant to distract or divert attention from the real murderers and/or a real investigation is incredibly weak.
Assuming for the sake of your argument that it WAS intended to divert attention away from a followup investigation to the WC how is Lambert exposing Garrison's investigation as a fraud more than 30 years later part of this, well, conspiracy? Doesn't her exposure support your theory that Garrison never intended to go after the "real murderers" of JFK? And exposing him three decades later? For what purpose? I don't see how her work supports your hypothesis.
As to Lambert: I believe she died last year from cancer. Or perhaps this year. Recently.
Sorry, Steve, considering my well documented research results, I do not know what else is to be made of this....for example, Shaw's silence in reaction to Baldwin's advice about Garrison's background, Baldwin's close friend, Jesse Core's counter advice to Garrison, Joan Mellen/Sklar & Stone lack of awareness the two Baldwin brothers were related to Garrison's wife, a fact disclosed to Shaw by Baldwin in the same week Shaw was arrested and charged...
….and Nicholas B Lemann's 1991 attack article published in GQ magazine. Lemann certainly did not disclose that the only paternal grandma he ever knew,
was David Baldwin's wife's mother, who was the step-sister of Lemann's father, Thomas, and Nicholas's uncle, Stephen, the alleged "CIA paymaster in NOLA" who
Jesse Core was urging in mid-1966 to be exposed on NBC by Garrison via the appeal to the FCC commissioner under the "equal time" doctrine.
This letter was published in the Times-Picayune before Jesse Core wrote the letter in the image below to Willard Robertson:
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62423&search=garrison_and+rosel#relPageId=175&tab=page
1of2 Pg. 20 Sec. 1 – Times Picayune New Orleans, LA
Garrison Files FCC Complaint Accusing NBC
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62423&search=garrison_and+rosel#relPageId=176&tab=page
2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
(Top of right side column)
…It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members
of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously
been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….
Fresh out of Harvard in 1975, Nicholas B Lemann became the office mate and friend of Tom Bethel at the Washington Monthly!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knckgt3ASNI/Vrd2i7xQ1aI/AAAAAAAACvc/m_y25b9LkuA/s512-Ic42/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vuym6rw9doQ/Vrdqs-3WcEI/AAAAAAAACu0/OK-mVPFKpW0/s512-Ic42/BaldwinCousinDonaldCarpenterFootnote.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Man-Million-Fragments-True-Story/dp/0692226419/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
Man of a Million Fragments: The True Story of Clay Shaw (Paperback)
by Donald H. Carpenter
Page 156 –
......
......
DiEugenio and Mellen have it wrong. Garrison deceived Mellen and Sklar. I have presented the proof meticulously supporting that conclusion, multiple times.
Baldwin was warning Shaw his prosecution by Garrison was a secret family matter of the Baldwin Ziegler Garrison Lemann family.
Baldwin's CIA buddy, Jesse Core (both hired by Shaw) was urging the opposite...telling Garrison through Willard Robertson, to go on the offensive
against Shaw at the same time Baldwin was advising Shaw of his family ties to Garrison's wife.:
June 30, 1967:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonJessCoreVsShawAndBaldwin.jpg)
......
........
-
Colin, I am not in "monitor mode"....I was inclined to point out to you the fact Steve posted of. My comment to you
was a plea. Posters here willing to discuss the dubious (uncorroborated) claims of Patsy Ruth Billings Lambert....
(anyone ever seen a pic or vid of her or point me to any live presentation by this evidently highly regarded author?)
....but no discussion ever ensues in reaction to what I actually have proven. In fact, DiEugenio, instead of arguing facts I unearthed, which are impossible to refute, instead associated me with Max Holland.
I genuinely seek your reaction to my facts suggesting Garrison and Shaw may have been on the same side!
I genuinely seek your reaction to my facts suggesting Garrison and Shaw may have been on the same side!
On the same side??!
Here is an excerpt from “False Witness:”
“...That job began the day Shaw’s attorneys made their last-ditch plea to federal court and it landed on Christenberry’s docket. Their request was unusual, for federal courts rarely intervene in ongoing state cases, and are barred from doing so by federal statute, except in certain “special circumstances.” Edward Wegmann, the only attorney on Shaw’s team whose practice was limited to civil law, conceived this creative strategy. He also penned the twenty-four-page complaint. That document, infused with Edward Wegmann’s indignation, smoldering since Shaw’s arrest, asserted in part that Garrison, acting in “bad faith,” had misused and abused his powers, particularly “in the prosecution of innocent citizens,” including Shaw. That he had conspired with members of Truth and Consequences “to accomplish his illegal purposes” and “harassed and intimidated” Shaw and others who incurred “his wrath.” That he had engaged in an “illegal and useless” investigation of the assassination for “his own personal aggrandizement.” Used the criminal courts of New Orleans “as a forum for his activities and as a shield” against those who disagreed. Unlawfully prosecuted Shaw for no “legitimate purposes.” Published a book that gave him “a financial interest” in Shaw’s continued prosecution. “Created an atmosphere of fear and terror in the community.” And violated Shaw’s rights to free speech, due process, and equal protection under the constitution. The longstanding allegations of wrongdoing by Garrison at long last had been expressed in a court of law. But Judge Christenberry first rejected the plea, partly because the perjury trial was so imminent. Shaw’s attorneys then appealed and won. That set the stage for the defining moment of this case, Judge Christenberry and his hearing, when all the chickens came home to roost. For some reason, this remarkable three-day proceeding has been virtually overlooked. Students of the case often have never heard of it. Even the transcript at first seemed to be unavailable. I traced it to a branch of the National Archives in Fort Worth, Texas, and in 1995 obtained a copy.”
The same side my foot!!!
-
I genuinely seek your reaction to my facts suggesting Garrison and Shaw may have been on the same side!
On the same side??!
Here is an excerpt from “False Witness:”
.......
The same side my foot!!!
I guess the way this actually smelled is unfamiliar to you? Reread what covert CIA agent, David Baldwin wrote to Shaw in March, 1967, displayed in an image in my earlier post....IOW, Shaw literally kept Garrison's secret, a secret not even shared with Garrison autobiography editor and "JFK, the Movie," co-screenplay writer (with Stone) Zachary Sklar.
http://www.assassinationweb.com/roseb1.htm
INCA DINKA DO*
by Jerry D. Rose
This article originally published in The Fourth Decade Vol. 4, #3, Mar. 1997.
.....For all these and other instances of Garrison-bashing by INCA, there is nothing in the published record (that I know of) to indicate that Garrison ever did contemplate prosecution and/or public vilification of INCA. In neither of Garrison's two books on the assassination is there any mention of INCA, Butler or Ochsner (and even the name Bringuier does not appear in the index to the second book). (22) Are we dealing, then, with a case of severe paranoia (or a guilty conscience) on the part of INCA; or, perhaps, with an actual co-optation of the Garrison investigation by INCA? Let us explore for a bit this second possibility.
My comments in this direction revolve largely around the unusual composition of the group of New Orleans "citizens" who, in early 1967, formed a group called Truth and Consequences (T&C) which would provide private funding for Garrison in his investigation. (23) Peter Dale Scott long ago pointed out the anomaly that two of the three leaders of T&C, Willard Robertson and Cecil Shilstone, were in fact founding members of INCA. (24) Robertson was an especially active member. When INCA opened its 'truth tapes" operation in 1961, Robertson was prominent in the dedication ceremonies and had donated, for INCA's use in local fund-raising, a "bright red, sound-equipped station wagon." (25) (presumably a Volkswagen, since Robertson had the VW dealership in the New Orleans area). For this generosity (and, no doubt for other services rendered), he was given an INCA Fighter for Freedom Award at an INCA ceremony on December 11, 1963. (26) Actually, the INCA ties to T&C (and to Jim Garrison) go considerably beyond the Robertson/Shilstone connection noted by Scott. The third (and usually considered the leading) founder of T&C, oil tycoon Joseph Rault, Jr., arguably had ties to INCA as well ... he certainly was close to Ochsner. Although I have not found that Rault was an INCA member, there is a letter in the Ochsner papers soliciting Rault for a contribution. (27) In 1965, when Ochsner was chairman of the New Orleans Inter-American Municipal Organization, he brought in Rault as a temporary director. (28) The man who ultimately replaced Rault was a Bay of Pigs veteran, Cuban exile Alberto Fowler, has been described as a sometime investigator for Jim Garrison. (29) Finally, Rault was, in one account, (30) present with Senator Russell Long when the idea was planted in Garrison's mind that the Warren Commission had done a faulty investigation. The Long connection to Garrison and Ochsner is an interesting one. A biography of Ochsner shows a surprising friendship between Ochsner and Long - surprising considering that, early in Ochsner's career in the Tulane Medical School (around 1930), Ochsner had a bitter confrontation with Long's father Huey Long over questions of leadership at the Charity Hospital in New Orleans. (31) Surprising, then, that Russell Long once praised Ochsner in noting a controversy about Huey's medical treatment at the time of his assassination, saying to Ochsner "You know, if my father had had you to take care of him, he would be alive today." To this, Ochsner "modestly" replied "I didn't know Russell realized this." (32)
Beyond the T&C connections to INCA represented by Robertson, Shilstone and Raul, there is at least one other likely connection. In reporting the formation of T&C, James and Wardlaw mention a few additional members, namely Eberhard Deutsch, John Mmahat, Edmond G. Miranne, Harold Cook and Lawrence Merrigan. (33) The name of Deutsch jumps out of that list, since he is an attorney whose name appears on the letterhead of the Directors of INCA. (34) Deutsch has been described by Scott (who was probably unaware of his T&C connection) as the General Counsel of Standard Fruit and as "Jim Garrison's former law partner and political mentor." (35)
Do we start to get the picture? INCA, which was supposedly in mortal combat with the Garrison investigation, has at least 4 of its associates among the leaders of Truth and Consequences, the money bag outfit for the Garrison investigation. Did T&C "get" what it may have been "paying" for? - i.e., immunity for INCA from Garrison prosecution? Certainly those INCA people who were T&C-involved were not ostracized by INCA for "sleeping with the enemy." In fact, two of them - Robertson and Shilstone - were re-elected as INCA directors in September, 1968, after T&C had been operating for a year and a half. (36) Certainly, I haven't proven that the Garrison investigation was INCA co-opted, but there seems to be quite a bit pointing in that direction.
*Revision of a paper delivered at the First Research Conference of the Fourth Decade at Fredonia, New York, June, 1996.
Notes....
Charles, I began my inquiry in fall, 2015, originally looking only into Ed Butler. I shared my research as i went, in posts in comments at jfkfacts.org, where I had just assumed responsibilities of comments editor on that website. i stumbled onto the fact that David Baldwin and his brother Edward were first cousins of Garrison's wife, via a 1968 obit of Herbert Ziegler, naming his surviving siblings, sister, "Adele Raworth". I have the kind of memory that caused that name to ring a bell....where had I seen it before? It was the name of Badwin's mother in his 1945 wedding announcement. I then confirmed that Joan Mellen was unaware of this....and off I went!
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. …. and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
……..
JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.…
The NOLA CIA/DCO included four CIA names, William Burke retired in 1962, turning management of that office to Ray.
Both of their obits include their membership in the New Orleans Country Club, managed by Willard Robertson's father-in-law
and business partner, Ernest Gossom, from 1925 to the mid-1960s
Leake and Shilstone were friends, with same best man, William P. Hagerty,
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-week-21-9/#comment-883978
in their respective weddings, an exceeding popular fellow. Dorothy Brandao of that office;
......
.....….and there were three CIA officers in the NOLA domestic contacts office. One was Dorothy Brandao. She went to college in Garrison's home town, Des Moines.
She married once, in 1939, later divorcing. : https://jfkfacts.org/comment-week-21-5/#comment-875347
This is her husband John Miceli's brother, teamed with former Garrison law partner/mentor.:
https://casetext.com/case/standard-fruit-and-steamship-co-v-hampton
STANDARD FRUIT and STEAMSHIP COMPANY, Appellant, v. … Deutsch, Kerrigan Stiles, New Orleans, La., Eberhard P. Deutsch, Augusto P. Miceli,…..
https://jfkfacts.org/hardway-declaration-cia-stonewalled-jfk-investigation/#comment-880760
Tom S. 2016/06/06 at 10:45 pm
…..
Beyond the T&C connections to INCA represented by Robertson, Shilstone and Rault, there is at least one other likely connection. In reporting the formation of T&C, James and Wardlaw mention a few additional members, namely Eberhard Deutsch,…. (33) The name of Deutsch jumps out of that list, since he is an attorney whose name appears on the letterhead of the Directors of INCA. (34) Deutsch has been described by Scott… as the General Counsel of Standard Fruit and as “Jim Garrison’s former law partner and political mentor.” (35)..
Garrison beat all criminal charges and his career was not markedly impeded, in the long run, by any of the controversies....
How do you explain New Hampshire native, Willard E Robertson's transformation from a 36 year old, New Haven, CT, defense plant woodworker in 1944 with a wife and two kids, to President of soon bankrupt Steelcraft boats of the South, to tycoon kingmaker of Louisiana governor and DA Garrison by the early 60s, flying the new governor around in his private plane?
I believe the explanation/funding/an outsider navigating of Louisiana politics centers around Ernest Gossom and Robertson's relationship with Shaw from late 1940's. Dulles classmate, Jack Churchward took woodworker Willard off the production line of his defense plant and made him his special assistant, and dispatched him to NOLA.
-
I guess the way this actually smelled is unfamiliar to you? Reread what covert CIA agent, David Baldwin wrote to Shaw in March, 1967, displayed in an image in my earlier post....IOW, Shaw literally kept Garrison's secret, a secret not even shared with Garrison autobiography editor and "JFK, the Movie," co-screenplay writer (with Stone) Zachary Sklar.
Charles, I began my inquiry in fall, 2015, originally looking only into Ed Butler. I shared my research as i went, in posts in comments at jfkfacts.org, where I had just assumed responsibilities of comments editor on that website. i stumbled onto the fact that David Baldwin and his brother Edward were first cousins of Garrison's wife, via a 1968 obit of Herbert Ziegler, naming his surviving siblings, sister, "Adele Raworth". I have the kind of memory that caused that name to ring a bell....where had I seen it before? It was the name of Badwin's mother in his 1945 wedding announcement. I then confirmed that Joan Mellen was unaware of this....and off I went!
The NOLA CIA/DCO included four CIA names, William Burke retired in 1962, turning management of that office to Ray.
Both of their obits include their membership in the New Orleans Country Club, managed by Willard Robertson's father-in-law
and business partner, Ernest Gossom, from 1925 to the mid-1960s
Leake and Shilstone were friends, with same best man, William P. Hagerty,
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-week-21-9/#comment-883978
in their respective weddings, an exceeding popular fellow. Dorothy Brandao of that office;
Garrison beat all criminal charges and his career was not markedly impeded, in the long run, by any of the controversies....
How do you explain New Hampshire native, Willard E Robertson's transformation from a 36 year old, New Haven, CT, defense plant woodworker in 1944 with a wife and two kids, to President of soon bankrupt Steelcraft boats of the South, to tycoon kingmaker of Louisiana governor and DA Garrison by the early 60s, flying the new governor around in his private plane?
I believe the explanation/funding/an outsider navigating of Louisiana politics centers around Ernest Gossom and Robertson's relationship with Shaw from late 1940's. Dulles classmate, Jack Churchward took woodworker Willard off the production line of his defense plant and made him his special assistant, and dispatched him to NOLA.
I have a late great aunt that used to cook for the Kennedys. She had residences in Massachusetts and West Palm Beach. She would migrate between her houses each year to stay close to her clients. She used to tell us kids that the super rich people were not the happiest of people. She left her two nephews (my father and uncle) a considerable sum of money and nothing much to her immediate family.
Maybe you can find out if there was something sinister about that mystery.
-
Charles, your response (Mark Knight redux) is beneath what I expected from you. Consider how similar your shallow ridicule today is, compared to Mark Knight's, seven years ago. IOW, your discouraging words are the rule rather than the exception. You, as do authors Janney and DiEugenio actually appreciate not knowing!
The story I related is true. I am showing that it is often feasible to find some innocent relationship between people. However, it usually doesn’t mean that something sinister is afoot.
Sure... but please try to appreciate the difference between sharing the story you related, with me, vs using it on me....
Example:
Where is the wedding announcement circa 1950 that confirms that Ruth Paine once lived next door to someone who was related to an individual who once was the best man at the wedding of someone who went to school with someone who once knew the son of Allen Dulles? Thereby somehow proving that Paine was the master spy/suburban housewife behind the assassination of JFK. I can just imagine old Ruth baking up some brownies while on the phone to J. Edgar plotting the sinister deed.
The mad charade by Garrison in New Orleans never made any sense to me. I just finished reading an eye opening book by Patricia Lambert: “False Witness” that tells the real story of Jim Garrison’s investigation and Oliver Stone’s film “JFK.”
If you have read this book, I would be interested in your thoughts about it. If not, I highly recommend this book.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1999-05-02-9904300760-story.html
AS JFK LORE, WITNESS RINGS FALSE
JOAN MELLEN The Baltimore Sun SUN-SENTINEL
FALSE WITNESS: The Real Story of Jim Garrison's Investigation and Oliver Stone's Film JFK. Patricia Lambert. M. Evans. $24.95. 352 pp.
As New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison's biographer, I confess to an interest in Patricia Lambert's False Witness. Jim Garrison, who in 1969 prosecuted Clay Shaw unsuccessfully for conspiracy to murder President Kennedy, was a complex man and no saint.
False Witness, alas, is little more than an unpleasant one-sided diatribe, a belated, curious valentine to the elusive Shaw. Lambert's named sources (most are unidentified) are primarily Shaw's own lawyers. Her tone is venomous, the word "fraud" a verbal tic. "Reportedly" is a constant adverb....
.....Shaw declared emphatically that he did not. Recognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation titled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs) was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.
Ever more shrill, Lambert accuses film director Oliver Stone of being no better than "a believer in Hitler."
The author description on the book jacket and press release describes Lambert, cryptically, as a "writer/editor." Yet no book that she ever wrote is mentioned. Not a single magazine or newspaper article is cited. Her book twists the facts, suppresses an enormous amount of material, and offers so distorted a picture as to render it of scant historical merit.
https://web.archive.org/web/20161103035104/tomscully.com/node/17
Has Everyone Sold Out? More Questions than Answers About George White and James Phelan, et al
Submitted by Tom Scully on Sun, 01/17/2016 - 02:19
.....
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/10/news/mn-30846
James Phelan; Investigative Reporter, Author
September 10, 1997
....
"He was a dying breed," writer Patricia Lambert, a close friend, ... "The world is a sadder, barren place" without him.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=153687&relPageId=12
cia documents released on april 26, 2018/
pdfPDF version: 942KNARA Record Number: 104-10122-10141
MEMO RE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CIA AND ROBERT MAHEU, PREPARED FOR DCI.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonLambertPhelanMaheu.jpg)
https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_7022729c-95bf-5fc7-b9ab-8000e1336f6a.html
In the death of Doctor Mary Sherman, strange myths pale next to stranger facts
NOLA.com | The Times-Picayune JUL 19, 2014 - 2:30 AM
...His (Garrison's) theory connects Sherman to Lee Harvey Oswald's alleged associate David Ferrie and a vast government cover-up, but ends with a theory on the advent of the AIDS virus.
In August 1964, investigators systematically dismantled Sherman's apartment. They took note of the black-and-white dotted dress she had laid out before her murder, and pulled aside objects they wanted to put into evidence. But not before a thorough walkthrough by the executor of Sherman's estate, described in the report as attorney John L. Glover, who worked for the New Orleans' firm Monroe & Lemann. Partner Stephen B. Lemann has been alleged by JFK theorists to have been chief over all New Orleans-based CIA operatives.....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)
Full text of “Courtbouillon Vol 23 No 1” – Internet Archive
https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=ssl&ei=SOegVpOsLtaK-gXojp6gCA#q=monte+children+thomas+%22*He+married+a+second+time%3B+Mildred+Lyons%2C+Oc-+tober+11%2C+1947.%22 (https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=ssl&ei=SOegVpOsLtaK-gXojp6gCA#q=monte+children+thomas+%22*He+married+a+second+time%3B+Mildred+Lyons%2C+Oc-+tober+11%2C+1947.%22)
https://archive.org/…/courtbouillon_vol23_no1031_djv…
Internet Archive
MONTE M. LEMANN … Children by his first mar- riage were Thomas Berthelot and Stephen Berthelot. He married a second time; Mildred Lyons, Oc- tober 11, 1947.
http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/obits/1/l-11.txt
003004 Lemann – Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann, A Homemaker, Died Friday At Her Home In New Orleans. She
Was 94. Mrs. Lemann Was A Lifelong Resident Of New Orleans. … In 1929, She Worked At Metairie Park
Country Day School, Where She Coordinated The School’s Non-Academic Activities. Survivors Include A Daughter,
Mildred Lyons Baldwin;
A Sister, Ethel Crumb Brett; Two Stepsons, Thomas B. Lemann, And Stephen B. Lemann; …. Times Picayune 01-14-1990
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7jZCbvMQ5sWnXtnyXAgxY2gfGLSM34dsgPOdCG53h1qw1aqqv9i88-UF9ZYFA8S1pyxPeHLIlmKTKZkstt27oNz6p_aRkeSDSnPOxw-gCRj8atYDc8XXYlZ4Vd6vV6yLJTUWUq07CBd7jAh1hAhLMLs39puuERLmo7jIBX5I55wI-kPRZSBqulwZHKwaCpy07xf8kJHUbYpU0K4XCMwYpW_1sbbOgZ_tXa04tnrZAw2bimxkAGQfh-mmFYh_wbnY4_ekUrrdulkeVaQCVckg55avm5CT-8tMzWGycbWxS68mz5sLIxWTX5Jo4fCOWGc1DJ_U72uVXAfDxPYLeMtTvKqdPTwH9v-yoLToSFktq3tTsk7Dwgs128Mz5WwUeKgJUb-m1X3mZe7qISqdKEs1Ep7MEWfwvWMpxT68f_PX6d3qKOLBj9xiMVdOXm3YbAsjH6HqJ-cw03z1eO6y2Ss6GbSvDx-7uIvgRFb4DJ3F05tzg6NDNPoEmzkMiavGPzFrGT13LJJoyk08Aj8TW7NtqIF9APaykHg-j015bUHi-qPupjZComuD-QPNp5gaPL6AL35BXXwbdRthZO65K7FO7rubdkVZ21aUzTsGADU-Tg1GDjMXqcL4Jtps-ehBo6HHf9SFDYb3fqzQn3mHu0G_3HiaBT5x5pO6M4w6lJfZkOCDKgK2awu5smbATsLzR5QrBi9J55dxcycJjkwiWrBMIsgVm7d2_rWMmX2_-SRMvXdY=w347-h809-no)
Sooooo.... Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann just happened (and of course, those belittling my methodology see no reason to point this out...) just happened to be step-mother of Stephen and Thomas Lemann, mother of their step-sister, Mildred Lyons Baldwin, (wife of Garrison's wife's godfather/first cousin David G Baldwin) mother-in-law of David G Baldwin, and step-grandmother of Nicholas B Lemann, Dean Emeritus of Columbia Graduate School of Journalism.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G.
Politics
By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ....
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2009/11/01/windmills-revisited/
Windmills, Revisited
by Nicholas Lemann November 1, 2009
I reported for duty at the Washington Monthly on July 1, 1976. ....The Monthly, methodologically, was
always reportorial, and it was never conservativebut, when I joined the magazine, the other editorial employee besides me and Charlie was Tom Bethell, an actual conservative, and it seemed as if the magazine devoted its main energies to attacking conventional liberal positions....
20 Years After Dallas - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1983/11/20/20-years-after-dallas/3f048775-d891-4097-b32d-c5bac324e98f/
Nov 20, 1983 - By Nicholas Lemann; Nicholas Lemann is a national correspondent of .... Jim Garrison, announced that he was investigating the question of ...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DavidBaldwin0755JessePrinceMirza.jpg)
New Orleans, Mon Amour - AEI
http://www.aei.org/publication/new-orleans-mon-amour/
Mar 23, 2007 - Tom Bethell, dismayed by media coverage, traveled back to the beautiful and ....Later, I would go uptown to see Brown, who is a part-owner of the Maple Leaf Bar, a prominent venue for live music. But as a preliminary step I paid a call on an old acquaintance, Thomas B. Lemann , a lawyer well known to the city’s establishment. . ... the consumption ofoystersnow requires a trek into the French Quarter.
-
Sure... but please try to appreciate the difference between sharing the story you related, with me, vs using it on me....
Example:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7jZCbvMQ5sWnXtnyXAgxY2gfGLSM34dsgPOdCG53h1qw1aqqv9i88-UF9ZYFA8S1pyxPeHLIlmKTKZkstt27oNz6p_aRkeSDSnPOxw-gCRj8atYDc8XXYlZ4Vd6vV6yLJTUWUq07CBd7jAh1hAhLMLs39puuERLmo7jIBX5I55wI-kPRZSBqulwZHKwaCpy07xf8kJHUbYpU0K4XCMwYpW_1sbbOgZ_tXa04tnrZAw2bimxkAGQfh-mmFYh_wbnY4_ekUrrdulkeVaQCVckg55avm5CT-8tMzWGycbWxS68mz5sLIxWTX5Jo4fCOWGc1DJ_U72uVXAfDxPYLeMtTvKqdPTwH9v-yoLToSFktq3tTsk7Dwgs128Mz5WwUeKgJUb-m1X3mZe7qISqdKEs1Ep7MEWfwvWMpxT68f_PX6d3qKOLBj9xiMVdOXm3YbAsjH6HqJ-cw03z1eO6y2Ss6GbSvDx-7uIvgRFb4DJ3F05tzg6NDNPoEmzkMiavGPzFrGT13LJJoyk08Aj8TW7NtqIF9APaykHg-j015bUHi-qPupjZComuD-QPNp5gaPL6AL35BXXwbdRthZO65K7FO7rubdkVZ21aUzTsGADU-Tg1GDjMXqcL4Jtps-ehBo6HHf9SFDYb3fqzQn3mHu0G_3HiaBT5x5pO6M4w6lJfZkOCDKgK2awu5smbATsLzR5QrBi9J55dxcycJjkwiWrBMIsgVm7d2_rWMmX2_-SRMvXdY=w347-h809-no)
Sooooo.... Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann just happened (and of course, those belittling my methodology see no reason to point this out...) just happened to be step-mother of Stephen and Thomas Lemann, mother of their step-sister, Mildred Lyons Baldwin, (wife of Garrison's wife's godfather/first cousin David G Baldwin) mother-in-law of David G Baldwin, and step-grandmother of Nicholas B Lemann, Dean Emeritus of Columbia Graduate School of Journalism.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DavidBaldwin0755JessePrinceMirza.jpg)
Recognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation titled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs) was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.
So the above is the closest thing (that I saw in your post) to a claim by Joan that there is something incorrect in “False Witness.” Yet it’s only innuendo.
I grew tired of conjecture and innuendo years ago after reading the umpteenth conspiracy book. I think that it isn’t that some of us “don’t want to know.” But rather we recognize it for what it is: innuendo. And we are not interested in innuendo.
By the way, I failed to mention that my great aunt’s brother was a federal marshal and his wife worked for the FBI. Coincidentally, I am planning a trip to D.C. soon and will be seeing their daughter for the first time since childhood. We plan to visit their gravesites along with the unknown soldier’s and JFK’s all in Arlington National Cemetery.
-
Recognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation titled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs) was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.
So, the above is the closest thing (that I saw in your post) to a claim by Joan that there is something incorrect in “False Witness.” Yet it’s only innuendo.
I grew tired of conjecture and innuendo years ago after reading the umpteenth conspiracy book. I think that it isn’t that some of us “don’t want to know.” But rather we recognize it for what it is: innuendo. And we are not interested in innuendo.
Charles,
One can only wonder what else Evert was approved for that Clay wasn't.
(Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs, etc, etc ...)
-- MWT ;)
-
Recognizing that researchers now know that Shaw was a member of a CIA operation titled QK/ENCHANT, Lambert preposterously argues, using "one unofficial account" as her source, that QK/ENCHANT was "nothing more than a program for routine debriefing of individuals involved in international trade." Yet, interestingly, Watergate mastermind and CIA spook E. Howard Hunt (Guatemala, the Bay of Pigs) was also approved for QK/ENCHANT, and he was no businessman.
So the above is the closest thing (that I saw in your post) to a claim by Joan that there is something incorrect in “False Witness.” Yet it’s only innuendo.
I grew tired of conjecture and innuendo years ago after reading the umpteenth conspiracy book. I think that it isn’t that some of us “don’t want to know.” But rather we recognize it for what it is: innuendo. And we are not interested in innuendo.
By the way, I failed to mention that my great aunt’s brother was a federal marshal and his wife worked for the FBI. Coincidentally, I am planning a trip to D.C. soon and will be seeing their daughter for the first time since childhood. We plan to visit their gravesites along with the unknown soldier’s and JFK’s all in Arlington National Cemetery.
Charles, resorting to tactics of a scoundrel is also an indication no reader will actually learn anything from your posts, in this thread, anyway! IOW, it is your prerogative to attempt to diminish me, if you actually have nothing else to present, but you will not diminish the facts I am presenting. Author Lambert does mention Nicholas Lemann in her poorly researched book, but nothing connecting him to his actual, conflicted, non-disclosed, ethics issues.
I freely share my research and the predictable reactions of disdain laced with impatience almost always accompanies the ridicule.... IOW, you do not actually want to know what you were sure you knew, but actually did not know, and now, almost seem to resent being informed of....
P.D. Scott had it right, but he certainly did not dive deep enough. There were four CIA officers in the NOLA DCO until William P Burke retired in 1962. Burke's boss was Edwin "Squirrel" Ashcraft, DCO/CIA chief. I have linked Ashcraft to his Princeton '29 classmate, Herbert Seay, and to a fellow Princeton Triangle Player associated with the wife of William P Burke. Herbert Seay's Princeton roommate was Tilbury O. "Buck" Freeman. Freeman's signature appears on the Naturalization paper of Elsa Bouhe, because Freeman was married to Elsa's daughter, Irina. Buck Freeman and his wife, Irina, lived in Plainfield, NJ, the town the SS Death Index indicates Irina's brother, George Bouhe received his final SS monthly retirement benefit in, circa 1980. Buck Freeman and Squirrel Ashcraft were still attending Princeton class of '29 reunions into the 1960's. You couldn't miss Squirrel, as he entertained his fellow alumni as the piano player and most prominent member of the jazz band, members of which had played together from their days at Princeton. (Supporting Details at bottom of this post)
Despite all of the detail above, and the fact that William P Hagerty was best man in the weddings of both of the two other male officers in Burke's CIA DCO, Lloyd Ray and Hunter Leake, II, and also an usher in the wedding party of Cecil Shilstone, the existing CIA documents "scream" an impression that the CIA did not know what "rogue" NOLA D.A. was actually up to, or what the implications/consequences of his investigation and his prosecution of Clay Shaw, would be!
Besides Shilstone, Ray, Leake, and Hagerty, the group of pals consistently included Mac (Michael Whittington) Burke, (no direct relation to William P Burke)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCecilShilstoneLloydRayHunterLeakeWilliamHaggertyMacBurke.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonWillard1944.jpg)
Willard E Robertson, New England defense plant woodworker in 1944, NOLA tycoon, political king maker by 1961!
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonShilstoneTruthConsequences26Jan1971_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonShilstoneTruthConsequences26Jan1971_2of2.jpg)
http://www.assassinationweb.com/roseb1.htm
INCA DINKA DO*
by Jerry D. Rose
This article originally published in The Fourth Decade Vol. 4, #3, Mar. 1997.
.....For all these and other instances of Garrison-bashing by INCA, there is nothing in the published record (that I know of) to indicate that Garrison ever did contemplate prosecution and/or public vilification of INCA. In neither of Garrison's two books on the assassination is there any mention of INCA, Butler or Ochsner (and even the name Bringuier does not appear in the index to the second book). (22) Are we dealing, then, with a case of severe paranoia (or a guilty conscience) on the part of INCA; or, perhaps, with an actual co-optation of the Garrison investigation by INCA? Let us explore for a bit this second possibility.
My comments in this direction revolve largely around the unusual composition of the group of New Orleans "citizens" who, in early 1967, formed a group called Truth and Consequences (T&C) which would provide private funding for Garrison in his investigation. (23) Peter Dale Scott long ago pointed out the anomaly that two of the three leaders of T&C, Willard Robertson and Cecil Shilstone, were in fact founding members of INCA. (24) Robertson was an especially active member. When INCA opened its 'truth tapes" operation in 1961, Robertson was prominent in the dedication ceremonies and had donated, for INCA's use in local fund-raising, a "bright red, sound-equipped station wagon." (25) (presumably a Volkswagen, since Robertson had the VW dealership in the New Orleans area). For this generosity (and, no doubt for other services rendered), he was given an INCA Fighter for Freedom Award at an INCA ceremony on December 11, 1963. (26) Actually, the INCA ties to T&C (and to Jim Garrison) go considerably beyond the Robertson/Shilstone connection noted by Scott.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCecilShilstoneWedIntro_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCecilShilstoneWed_2of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonHaggertyHunterCLeakeWed071336CRP.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonLloydRayWeddingNames15July1938.jpg)
The third (and usually considered the leading) founder of T&C, oil tycoon Joseph Rault, Jr., arguably had ties to INCA as well ... he certainly was close to Ochsner. Although I have not found that Rault was an INCA member, there is a letter in the Ochsner papers soliciting Rault for a contribution. (27) In 1965, when Ochsner was chairman of the New Orleans Inter-American Municipal Organization, he brought in Rault as a temporary director. (28) The man who ultimately replaced Rault was a Bay of Pigs veteran, Cuban exile Alberto Fowler, has been described as a sometime investigator for Jim Garrison. (29) Finally, Rault was, in one account, (30) present with Senator Russell Long when the idea was planted in Garrison's mind that the Warren Commission had done a faulty investigation. The Long connection to Garrison and Ochsner is an interesting one. A biography of Ochsner shows a surprising friendship between Ochsner and Long - surprising considering that, early in Ochsner's career in the Tulane Medical School (around 1930), Ochsner had a bitter confrontation with Long's father Huey Long over questions of leadership at the Charity Hospital in New Orleans. (31) Surprising, then, that Russell Long once praised Ochsner in noting a controversy about Huey's medical treatment at the time of his assassination, saying to Ochsner "You know, if my father had had you to take care of him, he would be alive today." To this, Ochsner "modestly" replied "I didn't know Russell realized this." (32)
Beyond the T&C connections to INCA represented by Robertson, Shilstone and Raul, there is at least one other likely connection. In reporting the formation of T&C, James and Wardlaw mention a few additional members, namely Eberhard Deutsch, John Mmahat, Edmond G. Miranne, Harold Cook and Lawrence Merrigan. (33) The name of Deutsch jumps out of that list, since he is an attorney whose name appears on the letterhead of the Directors of INCA. (34) Deutsch has been described by Scott (who was probably unaware of his T&C connection) as the General Counsel of Standard Fruit and as "Jim Garrison's former law partner and political mentor." (35)
Do we start to get the picture? INCA, which was supposedly in mortal combat with the Garrison investigation, has at least 4 of its associates among the leaders of Truth and Consequences, the money bag outfit for the Garrison investigation. Did T&C "get" what it may have been "paying" for? - i.e., immunity for INCA from Garrison prosecution? Certainly those INCA people who were T&C-involved were not ostracized by INCA for "sleeping with the enemy." In fact, two of them - Robertson and Shilstone - were re-elected as INCA directors in September, 1968, after T&C had been operating for a year and a half. (36) Certainly, I haven't proven that the Garrison investigation was INCA co-opted, but there seems to be quite a bit pointing in that direction.
*Revision of a paper delivered at the First Research Conference of the Fourth Decade at Fredonia, New York, June, 1996.
Notes....
A summary.... full text is a click away....
General Discussion & Debate / Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« by Tom Scully on July 11, 2019, 11:40:49 PM »
...... Seay's, and Freeman's class of 1929 was Squiirrel Ashcraft, William Burke's and Lloyd Ray's longtime boss at ............ Stewart ’32 was an early vocalist), "Squirrel" Ashcraft ’29 and Bill Priestley ’29, as well as Ron ............ (Freeman's roommate Burt Seay likely knew Squirrel Ashcraft well, in 1928) with CIA's Chief of Domestic ............ , Edwin Squirrel Ashcraft, may lie in the keepsakes or memories of this man, ............ -friendship-kindnesses-hank-oneal-recalls-squirrel-ashcraft-nov-2-2018/ HOT MUSIC, GOOD STORIES, LASTING ............ , KINDNESSES: HANK O’NEAL RECALLS SQUIRREL ASHCRAFT (Nov. 2, 2018) Posted on January 28, 2019 | 3 ............ they don’t wilt with a second telling: SQUIRREL ASHCRAFT September 20, 1905 – January 18, 1981 Edwin ............ Ashcraft III, better known as “Squirrel”, is the least ............ to the CIA’s Office of Operations, where Squirrel Ashcraft was the Director....... .....World War II closed ............ , or anything else.... Quote Edwin "Squirrel" Ashcraft was head of CIA Domestic Contacts, his deputy ............ and fellow Triangle Club member of Edwin Squirrel Ashcraft, Herbert Seay, and John Coxe, was briefly first ............ both members of Princeton Glee Club. Squirrel Ashcraft was Triangle Club V.P. and credited withmoving ............ . As recently as the 45th reunion of class of '29, Ashcraft was leading a jazz ensemble as reunion musical ............ a Princeton classmate of Burke's boss, Squirrel Ashcraft, and both were classmates of George W. Dodge, or ......
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Here is what Lambert wrote in her book about Shaw and QK/ENCHANT. She qualifies her statements with an acknowledgement that the "full extent" of Shaw's involvement in/with the CIA was "unclear." I see no dishonesty or inaccuracy in this at all.
"His" is referring to Shaw.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8f19/b0p5k61dkb8d0286g.jpg)
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Here is what Lambert wrote in her book about Shaw and QK/ENCHANT. "His" is referring to Shaw.
.....
Steve, not trying to do anything to you or Charles other than to encourage a frank discussion from either or, even better,
from both of you. I have presented facts and I seek analysis that actually takes the facts I share, into account.
(BTW, was Kerry Thornley an intel Op? See bottom of this post.)
I readily concede Ms. Mellen, critic of Ms. Lambert's book, did no real service to this controversy, other than to divert. I hope you
will consider the facts I presented and offer a similar conclusion about Ms. Lambert's effort; that she may have also done more harm than good. Both authors, actual facts indicate, missed the forest, for the trees.
I'm coming back to support these points, but I want to get this out. Recently I posted some of this on Dr. McAdams' google news group. The only "taker" was Marsh, and he quickly withdrew. Dr. McAdams had no response, despite literally looking over my shoulder, https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/ and https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-15/...
...as I uncovered the bulk of these facts and posted them in real time, hoping as always for collaboration.
Shaw hired both Baldwin and Core. (I did not watch "JFK the Movie" until 2013). Garrison hired Jesse Core as his NODA campaign comms director. Harold Weissberg developed a "man crush" on Core.
Ms. Mellen first met Jim Garrison just after the Shaw trial and was acquainted with him from then on, yet she wrote.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –
JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….
However, David Baldwin, his brother, Edward, Clay Shaw, and Jim Garrison knew this. Ms. Mellen, Zachary Sklar, and Oliver Stone, did not!
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
Tom S. April 12, 2016 at 1:25 pm
.....Using only internet resources and in the course of a couple of weeks of part time research I shared in comments on this website, (see- https://jfkfacts.org/assassination/review/who-was-the-only-man-to-ever-face-legal-charges-in-jfks-assassination/#comment-856847 )
I found these details, not published or mentioned, ever, by Joan Mellen.
In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw, Donald H Carpenter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knckgt3ASNI/Vrd2i7xQ1aI/AAAAAAAACvc/m_y25b9LkuA/s512-Ic42/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6e7iexAG0lM/Vrds4GJIGUI/AAAAAAAACvM/3WomDDWJrMw/s512-Ic42/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)
https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq=%22joan+mellen%22+stephen+lemann&source=bl&ots=JQ0cQ7W_xe&sig=zjEbm-HJgiFBiqsZJ_VSNijJh0U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAvsOe1YnMAhVLHD4KHdSUDKoQ6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=%22joan%20mellen%22%20stephen%20lemann&f=false
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GZrK_WPfSzA/Vw06hhXEywI/AAAAAAAADkU/0gWaG25SGZYMTm1iWWqe9j98H7CPpMLCQCCo/s800-Ic42/MellenStephenLemann.jpg)
The best face I can put on this is that Garrison misled and failed to disclose to his friend, Joan Mellen, and editor of his own book, the co-writer of the JFK the movie screenplay, Zachary Sklar.
The most troubling thing I’ve learned is that almost no one seems to appreciate being exposed to this new information. They already knew what they knew and indicate a preference of not having to consider Garrison’s actual proximity to those even he described as CIA sponsored adversaries.
Garrison’s silence on this also provided an opening (unanswered by Garrison) for the belligerent nephew of Stepen B. Lemann who is also the step-nephew of wife of Lee Garrison’s first cousin and godfather David Baldwin.:
continued……
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30153#relPageId=4&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CoreBaldwinCalcutta.jpg)
From Ms. Mellen's book....
https://books.google.com/books?... (https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT105&dq=joan+mellen+shoe+leather&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwh_mU24XlAhUJbq0KHezcCYsQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=joan%20mellen%20shoe%20leather&f=false)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCoreShoeLeather.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MellenJesseShoeleather.jpg)
.....
You really need to work on your overabundance of shallowness!
Thornley mentor, Clint Bolton had worked for AP in India, Core and Baldwin, India, the two men associated with Core's wife, Pearson and Rosenfield= India.
ALLEN DULLES IN INDIA | CIA FOIA (foia.cia.gov)
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp70-00058r000100130048-4
Approved For Release %W/PB/3%$CIA-RDP70-00058ROO01001 WASTUNCIldft STAX M MNJMTs in India NEW DELHI. India, Sept. 13 ).'1').-A11en W. Dulles ...
My posts are well documented, well supported, reliable reference material....an actual forum resource.
.....
Was Garrison's actual purpose to make the prospects of renewed
federal JFK Assassination investigation look ridiculous? The demands for renewed federal investigation of 1966-67
were neutralized until the Senate Church Committee, more than seven years later.
Kerry Thornley, under oath, in his own words.:
Page 68 of 96 :
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Thornley.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CoreThornley.jpg)
Kerry Thornley claimed Clint Bolton changed his life, in the spring of 1963.:
Page 16 of 51:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Thornley%20Kerry%
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CoreThornleyBoltonSpring1963.jpg)
Mardi Gras Memories - Ann Cavitt Fisher
https://anncavittfisher.com/2016/02/27/mardi-gras-memories/
......This is the third of three posts concerning Clint Bolton. He was a journalist who lived in New Orleans from the early 1950’s until his death in April of 1980. He was born James Clinton Bolton in New Jersey in 1908. He lived a full and interesting life: acting in summerstock plays with Humphrey Bogart, running away from Princeton to work on a tramp steamer to India, cutting his journalism chops in India to become an writer for the Associated Press, interviewing Gandhi during one of his early hunger strikes, working in New York as a journalist, serving in the Coast Guard in World War II. And finally, taking me under his wing in his last year.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40196
(wife of) Jesse CORE was one of a suspect political group, Dallas County Volunteers for RAINEY, which was of interest to the Security Office in 1956-1957 because
Jesse CORE, then Lucy RUGGLES, the daughter of William RUGGLES, an editorial writer on the Dallas Morning News, was particularly active) is said to have ....CIA employee Michael Charles Pearson #62901 and his friend, John Max Rosenfield, #21044 , a former OSS man... (Scully sez.. my research indicates Rosenfield was the son of the DMN music columnist...)
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/#comment-855227
Tom S. January 31, 2016 at 5:39 pm
......
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/10/obituaries/271659ce-1ceb-4fc1-89ea-5865a900c0d2/
August 10, 2002
Michael Charles Pearson
CIA Analyst
Michael Charles Pearson, 79, a Mideast and Far East specialist who retired in 1978 as a senior analyst at the…
Aug. 6 at the Cameron Glen Care Center in Reston….
Dr. Pearson, …. began his intelligence career in 1949. He was posted by the CIA
to India, Iraq and Libya. Earlier, he taught history and political science at Williams College in Massachusetts.
He was a native of Dallas and a graduate of the University of Texas.
….and the former O.S.S. man named in the page linked in the MFF.org link above Pearson’s obit.:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/wickedlocal-cambridgechronicle/obituary.aspx?pid=168604635
John Max Rosenfield of Cambridge, Massachusetts,.. died …on December 16, 2013. He served at Harvard University for more than twenty-five years as professor and curator… In 1971 he was appointed Abby Aldrich Rockefeller Professor of East Asian Art. With special interest in Buddhist arts, he traveled frequently in India,…..
And the then 36 year old, Willard E Robertson rose from defense plant "woodworker" in 1944. to assistant to the President of that company, Jack Churchward, who dispatched Willard to NOLA, in 1948.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/history/us-history-biographies/allen-welsh-dulles
......
Dulles attended Princeton from 1910 to 1914, graduating with a B.A. in philosophy; after teaching in India for a year, he returned to Princeton, and in 1916 he received an M.A. in international law...
......
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/219917526/
Willard E. Robertson SHREVEPORT Private Kimilv services (or Willord E. Robertson, a recent resident o Shreveport, were held at 11 a m, on Mondav October 31, at the tomilv home Grevstone on Beaver Lake near Rogers, Ark. Mr Robertson died at Ochsner Foundation Hosoitol in New Orleans ot 10 a m on Saturday, October 29. 1983, (oliowingashort Illness Interment will be in the family mausoleum. Mr. Robertson, born on May 16, 1908 in Conwov, NH, was a well-known business and civic leader in Shreveport as well as in Rogers, Ark. and New Orleans, La. He was educated in Exeter, N.H. and Northeast University of Low in Boston, Mass. Mr. Robertson wos assistant to the president ot Church, Ward & Co. in New Haven, Conn. In 1948.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardChurchwardDulles.jpg)
he went to New Orleans with Church, Ward & Co., as marine engineer. In 1949, he entered the automobile business in New Orleans and for 22 vear s was a Volkswogen distributor, covering the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee, with 68 dealers. For 4 years he was the Porsche and Audi distributor for the some territory, with 14 dealers. In addition to business affiliations, he was involved in public and civic organizations, to list a few:....
-
Steve, not trying to do anything to you or Charles other than to encourage a frank discussion from either or, even better,
from both of you. I have presented facts and I seek analysis that actually takes the facts I share, into account.
(BTW, was Kerry Thornley an intel Op? See bottom of this post.)
I readily concede Ms. Mellen, critic of Ms. Lambert's book, did no real service to this controversy, other than to divert. I hope you
will consider the facts I presented and offer a similar conclusion about Ms. Lambert's effort; that she may have also done more harm than good. Both authors, actual facts indicate, missed the forest, for the trees.
I'm coming back to support these points, but I want to get this out. Recently I posted some of this on Dr. McAdams' google news group. The only "taker" was Marsh, and he quickly withdrew. Dr. McAdams had no response, despite literally looking over my shoulder, https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/ and https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-15/...
...as I uncovered the bulk of these facts and posted them in real time, hoping as always for collaboration.
Shaw hired both Baldwin and Core. (I did not watch "JFK the Movie" until 2013). Garrison hired Jesse Core as his NODA campaign comms director. Harold Weissberg developed a "man crush" on Core.
Ms. Mellen first met Jim Garrison just after the Shaw trial and was acquainted with him from then on, yet she wrote.:
However, David Baldwin, his brother, Edward, Clay Shaw, and Jim Garrison knew this. Ms. Mellen, Zachary Sklar, and Oliver Stone, did not!
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30153#relPageId=4&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CoreBaldwinCalcutta.jpg)
From Ms. Mellen's book....
https://books.google.com/books?... (https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT105&dq=joan+mellen+shoe+leather&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwh_mU24XlAhUJbq0KHezcCYsQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=joan%20mellen%20shoe%20leather&f=false)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCoreShoeLeather.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MellenJesseShoeleather.jpg)
And the then 36 year old, Willard E Robertson rose from defense plant "woodworker" in 1944. to assistant to the President of that company, Jack Churchward, who dispatched Willard to NOLA, in 1948.
Tom: You are citing connections/associations - mostly of a social type, e.g., weddings - among people and then concluding solely from these connections that these same individuals conspired/worked together to do "X" or "Y".
Showing that person "A" knew person "B" does not prove that "A" and "B" got together to do "X". You just show they may have known one another.
In my view, you have presented no evidence that the Garrison investigation was a deliberate sham - done with Garrison's cooperation - designed to divert attention away from a serious followup investigation.
As to Lambert and QK/ENCHANT: I think her characterization of it and Shaw's role (if any) was fair and honest. Mellen's criticism - and she's a Garrisonite - was wrong. But in my view nearly everything Mellen says about the assassination is wrong (the Trade Mart was NOT, in my opinion, run by CIA operatives). She is right that JFK was killed in Dallas, though.
As to Lambert and her book on Garrison: She provides a great deal of documentation and sourcing for nearly all of her claims that Garrison was reckless in his investigation of Shaw. Conspiracy authors who worked with Garrison - Lifton and others - also said that they found Garrison to be reckless. I simply don't see where Lambert's work - done some 30 years later - can be some sort of deliberate effort directed by others to impeach Garrison's investigation. Why now? For what purpose?
-
Tom: You are citing connections/associations - mostly of a social type, e.g., weddings - among people and then concluding solely from these connections that these same individuals conspired/worked together to do "X" or "Y".
Showing that person "A" knew person "B" does not prove that "A" and "B" got together to do "X". You just show they may have known one another.
In my view, you have presented no evidence that the Garrison investigation was a deliberate sham - done with Garrison's cooperation - designed to divert attention away from a serious followup investigation.
As to Lambert and QK/ENCHANT: I think her characterization of it and Shaw's role (if any) was fair and honest. Mellen's criticism - and she's a Garrisonite - was wrong. But in my view nearly everything Mellen says about the assassination is wrong (the Trade Mart was NOT, in my opinion, run by CIA operatives). She is right that JFK was killed in Dallas, though.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4471-rex/
Tom Purvis - Posted 20 July, 2005
.....Maids....
....Of course, other Queens of COMUS include the daughter of General Robert E. Lee as well as the daughter of Jefferson Davis
Post #5:
Robert Howard: Would you care to elaborate?
Tom Purvis: Only the daughters of the uppermost "Southern Elite" secured such positions.
Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!
The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News | The Harvard Crimson
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
Feb 6, 1974 - The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. Politics. By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ... Garrison became the district attorney in New Orleans in 1962, .
If you were to ask yourself, what has Scully presented and ACTUALLY CLAIMED that is impeachable? If you can answer that question and stop failing to weigh and then take into account what I have presented in this thread, (your responses indicate to me you have not; in fact you seem to cling to conclusions I believe I have impeached. Case in point is non-disclosure of exactly the same things by Shaw, Garrison, and by Nicholas B Lemann) your replies will strike me as much less "canned".
Perry Russo was ably represented in that his counsel must have demanded/conducted discovery, per Civil Procedure, considering that Russo was obviously deposed. Read the decision by Fed. Judge Charles Schwartz in Russo v. Conde Nast, and then weigh this.;
I made smalll typo, I meant it to read, Liz Ziegler Garrison.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/transaction-man-nicholas-lemann.html
Sept., 10, 2019
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonNicholasNYTimesComment100519.jpg)
https://www.leagle.com/decision/19921409806fsupp60311312
.....
....When Russo was questioned in deposition as to whether he had any reason to believe that Lemann or any one at GQ harbored any animosity toward him, he essentially admitted that he had no reason to believe that either were out to hurt him, to wit:
Q. Do you have any reason to believe that Mr. Lemann has any animosity toward you or bad feelings toward you other than the fact, the mere fact of publication of the article?
A. As a personal thing, no, but I've always felt that those that were — that would purport to write stories of Garrison's case were after Garrison. And to be after Garrison meant to attack whatever Garrison based his case upon. And one of the witnesses in that case is myself — in that case was myself. And so to dismiss me as a grifter, he had no personal thing against me but he does intend to destroy Garrison's image or the legacy of Garrison. And so the best way would be to destroy me in the process.
Q. Well, do you have any facts upon which you base you suggestion that Mr. Lemann was out to destroy Garrison's image other than this article?
A. No.
Q. And how about G.Q. Magazine? Do you know or have you ever had any dealings with anybody connected with G.Q. Magazine or the people that publish G.Q. Magazine that would lead you to believe that they had anything in for you or that they had any reason to try to hurt you?
A. No.8.....
Steve, if after reading the rather brief Russo court decision material to my argument I linked to and excerpted of and still believe Russo would not have answered differently if "journalist" Nicholas Lemann had disclosed his conflict of interests at some point (at any point) before Russo was deposed, I anticipate we have nothing more to attempt agreement about. Consider, too if Lemann, with no post graduate degree and this ongoing disclosure "lapse", was a choice as Dean of CGSJ that is actually fair to those Columbia grad school students or to ethical journalism in the US, generally?
Addressing your reiterated point, I strive to take a reasonable approach. It seems fair to share with you that I counted 348 other students in that Princeton U. sophomore class aside from members Churchward and Dulles, BUT:
there must be some reasonable explanation for how New Hampshire born, New Haven, CT resident Willard E Robertson went from former men's attire salesclerk, to sandwich shop mgr, to small tavern mgr., to Jack Churchward's "woodworker" at age 36, in 1944, to multi-millionaire of 1961, in the 17 years between woodworker and foreign automobile S.E. US import/magnate, and kingmaker of Louisiana political contenders, including Mayor Schiro, Gov. McKeithen, NODA Garrison...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardAndGov1964Vacation.jpg)
We are considering a New England guy with a wife, two kids, and an undercapitalized economic venture supporting his arrival in NOLA in 1948. Jack Churchward filed for bankruptcy later that same year and SteelCraft boats of the S.E. piloted by Willard Robertson never took off.
How does a middleaged man of limited means and resume, set back by very recent divorce involving children come to learn enough about Louisiana politics to both be quite effective at the same time he is also suddenly building a business empire, with no visible ties to the financing required... getting the financing, local political savvy, and the local connections and management organization to do, in 8 short years, by 1961, the factual details represent Willard Robertson as having done?
IOW, Robertson's gargantuan reversals, on all fronts, even as literally a stranger in a strange land, are less reasonable than my introduction of two of 350 Princeton sophomores, "into the mix"!
Willard....Willard, who?
All of the other Volkswagen regional distributors were, to say the least, a cut above Robertson, both in wealth and in imported automobile marketing and servicing.
Charles Urschel, Jr. was step-brother of Tom and Earl F Slick. Willard E Robertson, Jr. was the employee of failing Steelcraft Boats of West Haven, CT in 1952. He is buried in New Hampshire.
Getting the Bugs Out: The Rise, Fall, and Comeback of Volkswagen in ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0471263044 (https://books.google.com/books?id=HP7vfgqDkzIC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=kiley+"Luther+Johnson+(brothers)+in+Oakland,+California;+William*"&source=bl&ots=Yg2GLWIvAI&sig=ACfU3U2DVAQTdt-eBhXHf2-WXngPZixknw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFmvSJkIjlAhUISK0KHa-cCcQQ6AEwAHoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=kiley%20"Luther%20Johnson%20(brothers)%20in%20Oakland%2C%20California%3B%20William*"&f=false)
David Kiley - 2002 - Business & Economics
... Luther Johnson (brothers) in Oakland, California; William Boeing, Jr. (aircraft ... and Indiana; Charles Urschel, Jr., in San Antonio, Texas; Willard Robertson in ... the Delta states and Tennessee; and Jack Pry in Washington, D.C.13 Van de ...
However, Robertson seperated and divorced from wife Sally and later court proceedings indicate also, from their two children, as well. Robertson and his office secretary at Steelcraft S.E., 17 years his junior, married in 1953. In 1959, Marie Gossom Robertson's death resulted in an auto accident riding in a vehicle driven by Willard Robertson.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonWillardRobertsonWifeObit1959.jpg)
This is a deliberative, thoughtful, methodical inquiry I stumbled into by accident in late fall, 2015. As long as it continues to bear fruit, why would I stop?
His daughter's death in a car driven by Robertson had no averse effect on the growing business ties with Gossom and his
two sons. Ernest Gossom had been manager of the NOLA CC since the early 1920s. Burke's golf tournament participation can be documented to 1925 and Burke's obit, as well as Lloyd Ray's include that club membership. Burke's daughter's findagrave entry documents her selection as Comus's queen in the 1950 carnival. Comus remains anonymous.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardGossomBurke.jpg)
The 1949 host of Burke's daughters buffet, batchelor Spencer, was Burke's best man in 1927. Spencer and Burke demonstrate lasting friendship, and Spencer's Hill School (Pottstown, PA) classmate and Princeton roommate was, by 1954, Allen Dulles's Science Officer.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WBSpencerBurkeBuffet.jpg)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100520469/constance-ivy-fedoroff
Constance Ivy Burke Fedoroff
...Daughter of Mrs. William P. Burke
Queen MKC 1950.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistick_Krewe_of_Comus
The Mistick Krewe of Comus, founded in 1856, is a New Orleans, Louisiana Carnival krewe. It is the oldest continuous organization of New Orleans Mardi Gras festivities.
.....
Carnival secrecy and exclusivity
Comus has jealously guarded the identities of its membership and the privacy of its activities (other than its parade), perhaps even more than the other Carnival organizations subscribing to the traditional code of secrecy.
-
Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!
If you were to ask yourself, what has Scully presented and ACTUALLY CLAIMED that is impeachable? If you can answer that question and stop failing to weigh and then take into account what I have presented in this thread, (your responses indicate to me you have not; in fact you seem to cling to conclusions I believe I have impeached. Case in point is non-disclosure of exactly the same things by Shaw, Garrison, and by Nicholas B Lemann) your replies will strike me as much less "canned".
Perry Russo was ably represented in that his counsel must have demanded/conducted discovery, per Civil Procedure, considering that Russo was obviously deposed. Read the decision by Fed. Judge Charles Schwartz in Russo v. Conde Nast, and then weigh this.;
I made smalll typo, I meant it to read, Liz Ziegler Garrison.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/transaction-man-nicholas-lemann.html
Sept., 10, 2019
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonNicholasNYTimesComment100519.jpg)
https://www.leagle.com/decision/19921409806fsupp60311312
.....
....When Russo was questioned in deposition as to whether he had any reason to believe that Lemann or any one at GQ harbored any animosity toward him, he essentially admitted that he had no reason to believe that either were out to hurt him, to wit:
Steve, if after reading the rather brief Russo court decision material to my argument I linked to and excerpted of and still believe Russo would not have answered differently if "journalist" Nicholas Lemann had disclosed his conflict of interests at some point (at any point) before Russo was deposed, I anticipate we have nothing more to attempt agreement about. Consider, too if Lemann, with no post graduate degree and this ongoing disclosure "lapse", was a choice as Dean of CGSJ that is actually fair to those Columbia grad school students or to ethical journalism in the US, generally?
Addressing your reiterated point, I strive to take a reasonable approach. It seems fair to share with you that I counted 348 other students in that Princeton U. sophomore class aside from members Churchward and Dulles, BUT:
there must be some reasonable explanation for how New Hampshire born, New Haven, CT resident Willard E Robertson went from former men's attire salesclerk, to sandwich shop mgr, to small tavern mgr., to Jack Churchward's "woodworker" at age 36, in 1944, to multi-millionaire of 1961, in the 17 years between woodworker and foreign automobile S.E. US import/magnate, and kingmaker of Louisiana political contenders, including Mayor Schiro, Gov. McKeithen, NODA Garrison...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardAndGov1964Vacation.jpg)
We are considering a New England guy with a wife, two kids, and an undercapitalized economic venture supporting his arrival in NOLA in 1948. Jack Churchward filed for bankruptcy later that same year and SteelCraft boats of the S.E. piloted by Willard Robertson never took off.
How does a middleaged man of limited means and resume, set back by very recent divorce involving children come to learn enough about Louisiana politics to both be quite effective at the same time he is also suddenly building a business empire, with no visible ties to the financing required... getting the financing, local political savvy, and the local connections and management organization to do, in 8 short years, by 1961, the factual details represent Willard Robertson as having done?
IOW, Robertson's gargantuan reversals, on all fronts, even as literally a stranger in a strange land, are less reasonable than my introduction of two of 350 Princeton sophomores, "into the mix"!
Willard....Willard, who?
However, Robertson seperated and divorced from wife Sally and later court proceedings indicate also, from their two children, as well. Robertson and his office secretary at Steelcraft S.E., 17 years his junior, married in 1953. In 1959, Marie Gossom Robertson's death resulted in an auto accident riding in a vehicle driven by Willard Robertson.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonWillardRobertsonWifeObit1959.jpg)
This is a deliberative, thoughtful, methodical inquiry I stumbled into by accident in late fall, 2015. As long as it continues to bear fruit, why would I stop?
His daughter's death in a car driven by Robertson had no averse effect on the growing business ties with Gossom and his
two sons. Ernest Gossom had been manager of the NOLA CC since the early 1920s. Burke's golf tournament participation can be documented to 1925 and Burke's obit, as well as Lloyd Ray's include that club membership. Burke's daughter's findagrave entry documents her selection as Comus's queen in the 1950 carnival. Comus remains anonymous.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardGossomBurke.jpg)
The 1949 host of Burke's daughters buffet, batchelor Spencer, was Burke's best man in 1927. Spencer and Burke demonstrate lasting friendship, and Spencer's Hill School (Pottstown, PA) classmate and Princeton roommate was, by 1954, Allen Dulles's Science Officer.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WBSpencerBurkeBuffet.jpg)
"Club membership", indeed, Tom. Thanks for all your digging. You've been at this a while. As Einstein said, "Everything in the universe is subject to change. And everything is on schediule".
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"Club membership", indeed, Tom. Thanks for all your digging. You've been at this a while. As Einstein said, "Everything in the universe is subject to change. And everything is on schediule".
Thank you, Mark. BTW aren't you being, "rather hard on the beaver" (aka "bertie" D.?) Ghost town here, owing possibly to the
irresistible "draw" of "Wipe that Rifle" and of course, TSBD threshhold "doings"...six years on, with no resolution and obviously no resolution even possicble?
In the, GEE, "this smells like horse poop," category.... Lloyd Ray convinces visiting CIA Asst. Counsel that the "fifedom" of
Garrison Investigation Robertson/Gossom financiers is a more secure location to discuss classified matters than in the NOLA CIA DCO! I have a bridge to sell you if your rigidity of belief is not at least slightly thawed in reaction to presentation of facts.:
1965 Announcement:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardGossomClub1965.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardErnestGossomVP.jpg)
Assistant General Counsel, John K Greaney memo, May 13, 1967:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=101367&relPageId=3
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonCIAcounselMeetRayCountryClubGossom.jpg)
FYI, I am awaiting Dr. John M.'s approval of this post to his google news group, earlier this A.M.:
(Steve, if you prefer, I will promptly remove this quote of your comment in our parallel discussion.)
Steve M. Galbraith - Posted October 6, 2019 @ alt.assassination.jfk
> How is Lemann's critical work about Garrison some 30 years *after* the
> investigation evidence of some collaboration *with* Garrison?
>
> Your claim is, I believe, that Garrison's investigation was a sham
> conducted - with Garrison's cooperation - to divert attention away from a
> real subsequent investigation to the WC. So Garrison was "hand waving"
> people to look at his little game and not to look at what really happened.
>
> So again what does Lemann have to do with this? How does what he wrote
> after Garrison's investigation - which he called a farce - help Garrison
> divert attention?
>
> If the Garrison/Shaw investigation was a diversion, isn't Lemann exposing
> it as a fraud undermining the diversion and not helping it?
>
> I can't see how you go from ushers and best men to woodworkers to cousins
> of inlaws to this plot that Garrison went along with to conduct a farce to
> help the real killers of JFK escape.
My reply to Steve, earlier today.:
Steve, I lost my enthusiasm for debating my research results with you because you continue to ridicule the very means I employ to produce these research details... primarily details wedding and funeral announcements that provide material leads, and your transforming what I shared with you more than once, into what you described dismissively as "thirty years later". The fact I shared with you was that Nicholas Lemann began his Garrison bashing, which is just as likely a disinfo OP component, as soon after the Shaw trial as Lemann was able to project from a considerable pulpit, nearly 28 years earlier than you emphasized, and actually, just five years after the Shaw trial verdict.:
The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News | The Harvard Crimson
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
Feb 6, 1974 - By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ... to put together this mythical coalition, but Jim Garrison, the six-and-a-half foot tall New Orleans district ...
AND:
20 Years After Dallas - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1983/11/20/20-years-after-dallas/3f048775-d891-4097-b32d-c5bac324e98f/
By Nicholas Lemann; Nicholas Lemann is a national correspondent of The Atlantic and. author of "Out of the Forties." November 20, 1983 .... Jim Garrison, announced that he was investigating the question of who really had murdered
Kennedy ...
And, in Russo v. Conde Nast, Lemann deprived Perry Russo of candid discovery, i.e., that he was not simply a journalist, NOLA native who believed Garrison was an embarrassment to Lemann's city. In 1967, Garrison accused Lemann's uncle
of distributing CIA funds to pay lawyers shielding subject's of Garrison's investigatory interest, or that his father's and his uncle's step-sister was married to godfather/first cousin, David Baldwin, of Garrison's wife and that Baldwin was fired covert CIA hired by Shaw as trademart PR flack.
ONE MORE TIME: It defies credulity that Lemann was writing about Garrison for 28 years (correction, 17 years) by the time of Russo v. Conde Nast, had worked at Washington Monthly with Tom Bethell in 1976, served two terms as dean of a prestigious graduate school of journalism despite having no graduate level degree, himself, yet was not witting of his own family connections I described a few sentences above this sentence. As I have said before, Garrison and his wife's Baldwin/Lemann family relations could have resolved their differences after diiner at a family holiday table, IF THE GARRISON INVESTIGATION AND SHAW PROSECUTION WAS REALLY AS PRESENTED. NOLA CIA DCO officers were not actually in the dark, as CIA docs, famously the Rocca meeting. Ray, Leake, and Cecil Shilstone had common member in all of their wedding parties, William P Hagerty, (Lloyd Ray reported his link to Shilstone, (see doc image below this quote box...) but no record of Leake disclosure) and Dorothy Brandao had been married to United Fruit brother, John Miceli, of Garrison mentor, Deutsch's United Fruit co-counsel. Augusto Miceli =inside counsel, Deutsch =outside counsel. Brandao's 1939 wedding announcement image link.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonDeutschDorothyBrandaoWed.jpg)
....And mob ties related to the Miceli siblings.:
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-week-21-5/#comment-875347
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=66155&relPageId=2
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonLloydRayShilstone.jpg)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=12700&relPageId=2
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonNOLAciaStaffRayLeakeBrandao.jpg)
June 3, 1976 :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16299&search=garrison_and+walton#relPageId=2
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonJwaltonMooreConcerns.jpg)
-
-
Funny, I thought he said, "You're the cop. You figure it out."
Or was that in the hallway?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
-
Funny, I thought he said, "You're the cop. You figure it out."
Or was that in the hallway?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
Linked to Case Closed.....so I cant verify the authenticity.
The police ran him into an elevator and took him to a third-floor office. He was put into a small interrogation room, with several men standing guard, as they waited for the chief of homicide, Captain Will Fritz. Suddenly, another homicide detective, Gus Rose, entered the room. He had the suspect’s billfold in his hand, and he pushed two plastic cards forward. “One says Lee Harvey Oswald and one says Alek Hidell. Which one are you?”
A smirk again crossed his face. “You figure it out,” he said.
-
Linked to Case Closed.....so I cant verify the authenticity.
The police ran him into an elevator and took him to a third-floor office. He was put into a small interrogation room, with several men standing guard, as they waited for the chief of homicide, Captain Will Fritz. Suddenly, another homicide detective, Gus Rose, entered the room. He had the suspect’s billfold in his hand, and he pushed two plastic cards forward. “One says Lee Harvey Oswald and one says Alek Hidell. Which one are you?”
A smirk again crossed his face. “You figure it out,” he said.
Colin,
I guess you missed my ensuing post.
-- MWT ;)
PS Do you automatically distrust most everything in Case Closed?
Product of the evil, evil, evil CIA and FBI-controlled "Deep State"?
-
Colin,
I guess you missed my ensuing post.
-- MWT ;)
PS Do you automatically distrust most everything in Case Closed?
Product of the evil, evil, evil CIA and FBI-controlled "Deep State"?
I guess I was researching the quote when you posted. No I don’t automatically distrust, I prefer verification where possible.
PS. I don’t believe "the CIA" was behind him (or the assassination for that matter).
-
Interesting, Colin, but I would also enjoy reading your take on this sign of seemingly clueless lack of self awareness!
Interview with George H.W. and Barbara Bush - CNN.com
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/22/lkl.01.html
CNN LARRY KING LIVE. Interview with George H.W. and Barbara Bush. Aired November 22, 2010 - 21:00 ET. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY ...
.....
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global ...
https://books.google.com › books (https://books.google.com/books?id=jRvdwoKQOgQC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=bush+china+lias+devine+bemis&source=bl&ots=u8ZxxXKI1z&sig=ACfU3U0-OBjqZYDbNbRFNb7Dc_Z4gXb2Lg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_6sPZ4e_kAhVQxVkKHVszDakQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=bush%20china%20lias%20devine%20bemis&f=false)
Jeffrey A. Engel - 2011 - History
Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know now is to do the best job one can here. There is no ...
Billy Joe Lord describes "Bemis" to President Carter:
............
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Interesting, Colin, but I would also enjoy reading your take on this sign of seemingly clueless lack of self awareness!
Billy Joe Lord describes "Bemis" to President Carter:
............
Skip to "My Lou, my darling"........ I HATE listening to this traitor. This is why transcripts of video/audio are so preferable, a time-saving tool...... kinda like the current sitting president's mumblings...... just sayin'.
Another good post, Tom. Thank you for your time and consideration. Tommy's responses remind me of your EF days when you were an 'administrator', oui? I can always tell when a poster has been 'enabled' by Mssr. Johnnie Walker..... ouch !!! Takes one to know one..... King's interview reminds me of Hersch's public rantings. When Leo Damore committed suicide, See-More just sat right down and posted me a letter ......... says it right there in the footnotes of......... well....... where's the missing .38, bytheway?? 55 years ago today+ RIP, Mary.....