JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on September 27, 2019, 02:02:13 PM
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Was the paper (or the finished bag, itself) ever folded in such a way as to make it easier for Oswald to put it under his belt or in his pocket, etc, to smuggle out of the building?
If not, wouldn't it suggest that the evil, evil, evil CIA or Dallas Police or somebody planted that bag in the sniper's nest?
But wait a second, if they smuggled it in, wouldn't they have had to fold it up?
(It was determined that that paper was from the TSBD, right?)
-- MWT ;)
PS I know! It was Roy Truly or Jack Dougherty!
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Was the paper (or the finished bag, itself) ever folded in such a way as to make it easier for Oswald to put it under his belt or in his pocket, etc, to smuggle out of the building?
If not, wouldn't it suggest that the evil, evil, evil CIA or Dallas Police or somebody planted that bag in the sniper's nest?
But wait a second, if they smuggled it in, wouldn't they have had to fold it up?
(It was determined that that paper was from the TSBD, right?)
-- MWT ;)
PS I know! It was Roy Truly or Jack Dougherty!
If you didn't post so damned much and used the time to research the case, you might learn a few facts.....Colin Crow and another member (Tony Fratini) discussed the creation of the bag and arrived a a solid conclusion......
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If you didn't post so damned much and used the time to research the case, you might learn a few facts.....Colin Crow and another member (Tony Fratini) discussed the creation of the bag and arrived a a solid conclusion......
Walter,
Oh?
What did they find out?
Killer Oswald had rolled the paper into a tube?
-- MWT ;)
PS Why so friendly?
PSS You have a typo.
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Walter,
Oh?
What did they find out?
Killer Oswald had rolled the paper into a tube?
-- MWT ;)
PS Why so friendly?
PSS You have a typo.
Perhaps Colin will enlighten you....I have no desire to start any exchange with you. Perhaps you can search through the posts from a couple of years ago....
But even if you find Fratini's post you probably won't accept his finding.....
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What did they find out?
Killer Oswald had rolled the paper into a tube
Notice how nutters can’t discuss any evidence without injecting propaganda like “Killer Oswald” or “Dirty Harvey” or “Oswald’s rifle” into the discussion as if it was just a given?
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Notice how nutters can’t discuss any evidence without injecting propaganda like “Killer Oswald” or “Dirty Harvey” or “Oswald’s rifle” into the discussion as if it was just a given?
Dirty Harry: "Smith, Wesson... and me"
Dirty Harvey: Smith, Wesson... and Lee
;)
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Dirty Harry: "Smith, Wesson... and me"
Dirty Harvey: Smith, Wesson... and Lee
;)
It's sad to think that poor little Hungarian boy had to take the rap.
-- MWT Walk:
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It sure looks to me that there are folds in the bag.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eSB3HYpevE0/T3oIdYEqRtI/AAAAAAAAHJM/qCyDjxVjJUw/s1600/LD-Montgomery-Holds-Brown-Paper-Bag.jpg)
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Notice how nutters can’t discuss any evidence without injecting propaganda like “Killer Oswald” or “Dirty Harvey” or “Oswald’s rifle” into the discussion as if it was just a given?
John, Don't you understand that these guys lack the guts to face reality, and they thrive on the BS that they believe is reality.
The Government ( LBJ's administration ) presented a fairy tale (the WR) for the simple minded piss ants ( the name LBJ used to refer to the working class) and some folks like Mr Graves, Chapman, Brown, and many others, accepted that fairy tale, and they simply lack the guts to accept the bitter truth.
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John, Don't you understand that these guys lack the guts to face reality, and they thrive on the BS that they believe is reality.
The Government ( LBJ's administration ) presented a fairy tale (the WR) for the simple minded piss ants ( the name LBJ used to refer to the working class) and some folks like Mr Graves, Chapman, Brown, and many others, accepted that fairy tale, and they simply lack the guts to accept the bitter truth.
You nailed it, Walter.
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Was the paper (or the finished bag, itself) ever folded in such a way as to make it easier for Oswald to put it under his belt or in his pocket, etc, to smuggle out of the building?
If not, wouldn't it suggest that the evil, evil, evil CIA or Dallas Police or somebody planted that bag in the sniper's nest?
But wait a second, if they smuggled it in, wouldn't they have had to fold it up?
(It was determined that that paper was from the TSBD, right?)
-- MWT ;)
PS I know! It was Roy Truly or Jack Dougherty!
Oswald had 4" of bag to fold over the 34" disassembled rifle, with the useless scope. Why aren't you asking yourself how Oswald managed to dissemble the rifle, place it into the bag, smuggle it into the TSBD, re-assemble it in the SN, fire it 3 times (bypassing the useless scope), ditch it behind some boxes, without leaving a single print on the rifle. Tell me how that was possible before you drone on about how the evil evil CIA folded the paper sack.
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Oswald had 4" of bag to fold over the 34" disassembled rifle, with the useless scope. Why aren't you asking yourself how Oswald managed to dissemble the rifle, place it into the bag, smuggle it into the TSBD, re-assemble it in the SN, fire it 3 times (bypassing the useless scope), ditch it behind some boxes, without leaving a single print on the rifle. Tell me how that was possible before you drone on about how the evil evil CIA folded the paper sack.
The rough wood of the stock wouldn't "take" a print very well, and he could have wiped down the metal parts with his other shirt before putting it back on.
Anyway, a palm print of his was found on the rifle.
http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-fingerprintpalmprint-evidence
-- MWT ;)
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Anyway, a palm print of his was found on the rifle.
No, a partial palmprint showed up a week later on an index card.
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No, a partial palmprint showed up a week later on an index card.
John,
Are you a Conspiracy Theorist, or just an over-the-top Oswald defender?
-- MWT ;)
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John,
Are you a Conspiracy Theorist, or just an over-the-top Oswald defender?
-- MWT ;)
Or just a realist who is correct....
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Or just a realist who is correct....
Marty,
Oh yeah?
Correct about what?
That Oswald was "innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent!" ?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Tom is either utterly clueless or he’s strawmanning again (or both).
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Marty,
Oh yeah?
Correct about what?
That Oswald was "innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent!" ?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
Correct about what?
If that needs to be explained to you, perhaps you should look for something else to occupy your pastime.
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Correct about what?
If that needs to be explained to you, perhaps you should look for something else to occupy your pastime.
Nice dissembling answer, Marty.
Correct about everything?
Even when he says Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt and SHaron Simmons on the Pergola Patio in Towner might actually have been men wearing Bermuda shorts, with one of them holding a "Baby Boy Blue"-colored helium-filled balloon?
-- MWT ;)
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Except I never said that. That’s the story you made up to compensate for your lack of evidence (and decency).
Tom turns every single thread into his unhealthy obsession.
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No, a partial palmprint showed up a week later on an index card.
a partial palmprint showed up a week later on an index card.
That's true, but that's not the first appearance of the 3 X 5 index card. That so called "palm Print" which was nothing but an unidentifiable smudge that Lt Day imagined to be a palm print when he first saw it on the wooden foregrip of the rifle. Day knew that the wood would absorb what he thought might be a print so he lifted it just minutes after the rifle was retrieved from BENEATH the pallet. Tom Alyea watched as Day lifted that smudge and placed it on the 3 X 5 card...
That card is listed among the evidence that was turned over to the FBI at mid-night on 11 / 22 /63.
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That's true, but that's not the first appearance of the 3 X 5 index card.
Yes it was.
That card is listed among the evidence that was turned over to the FBI at mid-night on 11 / 22 /63.
No, it was on an undated list that you like to pretend was turned over to the FBI on 11/22. The index card was sent separately, days after the other fingerprint evidence was turned over.
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Yes it was.
No, it was on an undated list that you like to pretend was turned over to the FBI on 11/22. The index card was sent separately, days after the other fingerprint evidence was turned over.
Would you please post the two evidence lists , so we can compare them and discuss them.....
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Would you please post the two evidence lists , so we can compare them and discuss them.....
Nothing to discuss. They are undated. Period.
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Nothing to discuss. They are undated. Period.
The original list that was compiled on the evening of 11 / 22/ 63 is not dated....But any intelligent person can determine that it was typed up that evening by comparing the two lists.
The photocopy ( altered) of the evidence inventory list can be seen on page 260 of Vol 24......
Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXIV
Page 260 of 929
250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269
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How does it’s being altered tell you anything about when the first one was written?
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The rough wood of the stock wouldn't "take" a print very well, and he could have wiped down the metal parts with his other shirt before putting it back on.
Another coulda-woulda-shoulda...Saw all that in some kind of a transcendental vision? Or is it just the adventitious conjecture of the Oswald did it puppets?
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Another coulda-woulda-shoulda...Saw all that in some kind of a transcendental vision? Or is it just the adventitious conjecture of the Oswald did it puppets?
Yes, it's one in a long series of Lame LN excuses (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=100.0).
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The rough wood of the stock wouldn't "take" a print very well, and he could have wiped down the metal parts with his other shirt before putting it back on.
Anyway, a palm print of his was found on the rifle.
http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-fingerprintpalmprint-evidence
-- MWT ;)
The rough wood of the stock wouldn't "take" a print very well,
This is a false statement that is rarely challenged.... The wood of stock of C2766 was NOT "rough ".....It's true that the wood was not highly polished, but it was not "rough". There are many photos of the rifle and it's obvious that the wood isn't rough.
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Anyway, a palm print of his was found on the rifle....
http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-fingerprintpalmprint-evidence
I thought this thread was about the 'bag'. Tommy wanders off again. The link doesn't work BTW...and it wasn't an official link anyway. Try it again 8)
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The rough wood of the stock wouldn't "take" a print very well, and he could have wiped down the metal parts with his other shirt before putting it back on.
Anyway, a palm print of his was found on the rifle.
http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-fingerprintpalmprint-evidence
-- MWT ;)
Makes sense that rifles and hand guns would have roughened surfaces, in order to grip more solidly.
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Makes sense that rifles and hand guns would have roughened surfaces, in order to grip more solidly.
I know without any doubt and from personal experience , that the wood of the military carcano is no more rough than the heavy brown paper, and cardboard that the police and FBI said they found prints on. IMO the wooden stock of the carcano is actually smoother than the brown paper.
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I know without any doubt and from personal experience.....
But that is overruled by advanced conjecture, expert guesswork and professional speculation.
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I know without any doubt and from personal experience , that the wood of the military carcano is no more rough than the heavy brown paper, and cardboard that the police and FBI said they found prints on. IMO the wooden stock of the carcano is actually smoother than the brown paper.
Which Carcano? Yours?
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Which Carcano? Yours?
I own several....And I've seen hundreds....
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Which Carcano? Yours?
Why argue and make a bigger fool of yourself?.... When you can go to any gun shop and look at the old WWII military rifles....NONE of them have "ROUGH" wooden stocks....None of them have highly polished stocks ( because that surface would reflect sunlight and that could spell disaster for the soldier carrying the weapon.)
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Why argue and make a bigger fool of yourself?.... When you can go to any gun shop and look at the old WWII military rifles....NONE of them have "ROUGH" wooden stocks....None of them have highly polished stocks ( because that surface would reflect sunlight and that could spell disaster for the soldier carrying the weapon.)
When you can go to any gun shop and look at the old WWII military rifles
You don't really expect that Chapman would do some actual research, do you?
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When you can go to any gun shop and look at the old WWII military rifles
You don't really expect that Chapman would do some actual research, do you?
No....That was silly of me. But I felt compelled to refute the statement that the stock of the carcano was ROUGH wood..... when in fact it is SMOOTH.
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It's sad to think that poor little Hungarian boy had to take the rap.
-- MWT Walk:
It's sad to think that poor little Hungarian American boy ( Who fancied himself to be a budding Herb Phibrick , and thought that he was working undercover for the FBI) had to take the rap.
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But that is overruled by advanced conjecture, expert guesswork and professional speculation.
You forgot pompous arrogance...... which allows the elitist to believe that he is far superior to the average person.....which LBJ called piss ants.
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Nothing to discuss. They are undated. Period.
They are undated....But that doesn't prevent us from determining when the original inventory list (Document "A") was created..... As a matter of fact it is rather easy to determine when the Original evidence list was created by comparing the original List "A" with the photo copy "B" which is altered.
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I own several....And I've seen hundreds....
What's important is what you can do with these rifles that actually contributes in a real way to the forum.
Meanwhile, do you have an MC stock you can sell me? (Just the stock; the 34.8" thing). I'm serious. I need one for the next stage of a project I'm working on.
And just wiping the stock would be more than sufficient to smudge/smear fingerprints.
And as far as that goes, even just handling the rifle would cause overlaps, yielding smudged/smeared areas one would think. Authorities on the subject say there's about a 5% chance of finding usable prints on a murder weapon anyway.
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What's important is what you can do with these rifles that actually contributes in a real way to the forum.
Meanwhile, do you have an MC stock you can sell me? (Just the stock; the 34.8" thing). I'm serious. I need one for the next stage of a project I'm working on.
And just wiping the stock would be more than sufficient to smudge/smear fingerprints.
And as far as that goes, even just handling the rifle would cause overlaps, yielding smudged/smeared areas one would think. Authorities on the subject say there's about a 5% chance of finding usable prints on a murder weapon anyway.
Meanwhile, do you have an MC stock you can sell me? (Just the stock; the 34.8" thing). I'm serious. I need one for the next stage of a project I'm working on.
Wow... Chapman actually doing research? Nah.... what are the odds?
It sounds like a lot of hot air, but if he's serious, I'll send him a MC rifle, free or charge. All he needs to do is contact me by private mail........
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With a rifle to bring into the TSBD in a long enough bag it was no big deal for Malcolm " Mac the fingerprint " Wallace to walk in with a few minutes to spare since the President was coming by the ambush site and every ones thoughts were on the tour route . As bad a shot as Wallace was , he might have been the one who ricocheted the bullet off the curb with a piece that gave Tague a close shave . The rifle that LHO was to have brought in would still have been too long with the rifle broken down and the stock being the longest piece for that bag ! LHO did not do it !
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Buy some camping equipment, you couldn't tell the difference.
:D
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Why argue and make a bigger fool of yourself?.... When you can go to any gun shop and look at the old WWII military rifles....NONE of them have "ROUGH" wooden stocks....None of them have highly polished stocks ( because that surface would reflect sunlight and that could spell disaster for the soldier carrying the weapon.)
Show us where fingerprints on any murder weapon are easy to find
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Chapman doesn't need an MC
34.8" is 34.8", no matter what object one uses
In addition, a (estimated) 27" measure gets no where close to be 'almost touching the ground'
The WCR dismissed Randle's length claim based on the latter claim.
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Buy some camping equipment, you couldn't tell the difference.
You're probably adept at recognizing the difference, given both items are in abundance around trailer parks, I hear.
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Michael Paine couldn't.
Incredible !.....and unbelievable.