JFK Assassination Forum

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on September 24, 2019, 09:32:02 PM

Title: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 24, 2019, 09:32:02 PM
By Paul "Word Twister" Trejo:

.....

It took Dallas FBI Agent James Hosty 33 years to publish his book about the JFK assassination: Assignment Oswald (1996).

I reviewed this book last month, and it suddenly struck me that Bill Simpich's recent eBook, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City (2014) offers the best interpretation of James Hosty's biased slant on the JFK murder.

The theme of James Hosty's book is that KGB assassin, Valeriy Kostikov, was the accomplice of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) in Mexico City, and supported LHO in the JFK assassination.  Hosty goes further, and insists that the FBI, the State Department, the CIA and the Secret Service all knew about Kostikov's connection to LHO in 1963, and deliberately kept this information from Hosty.

If these evil US Government forces would have told him the truth, implies Hosty, he could have saved JFK, his beloved President, for whose funeral he wept.  This is the thematic undercurrent of Hosty's 1996 book,  Assignment Oswald, from chapter one to the final chapter.

Starting on page 48 of his book, Hosty sets up the chronology.   In late October, 1963, Jeff Woolsey, INS officer, asked Hosty: "How about Oswald in Mexico City contacting the Russians?"  Hosty replies that he never heard of this, and asked for more information, but Jeff Woolsey exclaimed that he shouldn't have said anything, and hurried away.

Later that week, Hosty claimed that he saw an FBI communique of 10/18/1963 from the CIA, saying that Oswald was in Mexico City and contacted Valeriy Kostikov.  Hosty then asked himself, melodramatically setting up the theme for his book, "Who is the world is Valeriy Kostikov?"

The theme is carried out throughout the book in tiny snippets,  In the center of his book is a photograph of Kostikov, and his text is peppered with allusions to his many murders in Mexico City, and the failure of the FBI and CIA to arrest him.

Hosty concludes that the JFK plot began in Mexico City, not NOLA (as Jim Garrison proposed) and on page 244, in his final chapter, Hosty claims that FBI Directors Clarence Kelly and William Webster both agreed that the FBI failed to give Hosty information about Valeriy Kostikov -- thus confirming Hosty's innocence of any role in the JFK assassination.

The trouble with Hosty's account is seen in vivid color by implication from Bill SImpich's brilliant eBook from 2014, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City.  This eBook is free for the taking on the Mary Ferrell web site, and IMHO one cannot offer an informed opinion about the JFK assassination today without reading this eBook. It's free, so there's really no excuse.

What Bill Simpich shows, by using a careful analysis of recent FOIA releases of CIA documents from 1963, is that the legend that LHO contacted Valeriy Kostikov in Mexico City was started by an underground plot in Mexico City, by somebody who impersonated LHO over the telephone of the Cuban consulate, calling the USSR Embassy, which was the most heavily wire-tapped telephone on the planet in 1963.

Calls on this telephone had to be transcribed into English and placed on the Mexico City CIA Director's Desk within 15 minutes.

When this was done, the conclusion was clear -- the caller was not LHO.  The caller claimed to be LHO, and directly asked the clerk about Valeriy Kostikov -- thereby linking the names of the two men for the record. The CIA concluded that the caller knew that the phone would be tapped -- and therefore the impersonation had to be an inside job.   Somebody in the CIA or in the FBI in Mexico City did this -- as a rogue operation -- as a Mole -- completely unknown to the CIA high-command -- deliberately to link the names of LHO and Kostikov.

Bill Simpich proved that a high-level CIA Mole Hunt emerged from this scenario, and Simpich traces that CIA Mole Hunt for more than a year after this event.  The CIA sought the mole, but never caught the mole.  [...]

[emphasis added]

.....

Okay, thanks, Word Twister.

In my humble opinion, this is where Simpich (and you) go horribly wrong:

The caller did not directly ask "the clerk" about Kostikov -- the "clerk" volunteered Kostikov's radioactive name to the caller!

By actually reading the transcript of the phone call, we can see the the person on the other end of the line, embassy security guard (and suspected KGB officer) Ivan Obyedkov, "suggested" the name "Kostikov" to the Oswald impersonator (whom I believe was Cuban Consulate's Duran and Azcue's "Blond Oswald in Mexico City," KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov).

Now, what's interesting about this is twofold:

1) Obyedkov, mispelled by the "court reporter" or the transcriber as "Byetkov*?" in James Angleton's June 19,1975 Church Committee testimony ...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1447&search=Angleton#relPageId=16&tab=page

... was a KGB triple-agent whom CIA thought it had recruited but who was actually still loyal to the Kremlin, and

2) KGB officer Kostikov's name had already been made Dept. 13 "Radioactive" by another triple-agent, Aleksey Kulak (FBI's "Fedora"), in cahoots with FBI's rather mysterious East German Guenter Schulz ("Tumbleweed"), true Dept.13 officer, Oleg Brykin (who was working undercover at the UN, and Valiery Kostikov, himself, in Mexico City.

--  MWT  ;)

Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on September 28, 2019, 06:04:57 AM
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/ec498402-3465-453a-a17b-5f106a4e85fe/downloads/WHAT%20JANE%20ROMAN%20SAID.pdf?ver=1569647030587
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 07:47:03 AM
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/ec498402-3465-453a-a17b-5f106a4e85fe/downloads/WHAT%20JANE%20ROMAN%20SAID.pdf?ver=1569647030587

Michael,

Point being?

Aren't you able to extrapolate from all of the documents and essays you like to post and synthesize your own ideas and theories out of them and actually communicate them to us?

If you can, then what's the bottom line, Mike?

That we live in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State," controlled by an evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex, just like Donald Sutherland said in JFK?

A military and intelligence complex that we have absolutely no need for, now, except to fight Islamic terrorists, of course, because, hey, "The Cold War Is Over!" ?

That Oswald was held very tightly in a "vest pocket" operation by evil, evil, evil James Angleton and/or the mysterious Special Affairs Staff, not to uncover moles and/or triple-agents in the Soviet Russia Division (George Kisevalter comes to mind as an excellent candidate) mind you, but to patsy, goddammit, in the planned-since-at-least-1947 Assassination of JFK in such a way as to "justify" our nuking the bejesus out of Russia and invading Cuba, too?

And ... shhhhh...... so that George Soros, and the Clintons, and the Koch Bros and their ilk could take over the world, leaving us to read The Warren Report and 1984 over and over and over again?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Which "impressive" document, in lieu of your very own "brainwashed"-by-Morley-and-"Jumbo Duh" half-baked thoughts, are you going to post for us now, Mike?

Something that you've already posted three or four times?

LOL

Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 09:10:02 AM

Excerpt from Morley's What Jane Roman Said:

Paraphrased:  "Some sneaky rotten CIA xxxxxxxx had a closely-held operational interest in Oswald seven weeks before JFK was assassinated."

My comment:  "Okay"

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on September 28, 2019, 12:09:58 PM
Michael,

Point being?

Aren't you able to extrapolate from all of the documents and essays you like to post and synthesize your own ideas and theories out of them and actually communicate them to us?

If you can, then what's the bottom line, Mike?

That we live in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State," controlled by an evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex, just like Donald Sutherland said in JFK?

A military and intelligence complex that we have absolutely no need for, now, except to fight Islamic terrorists, of course, because, hey, "The Cold War Is Over!" ?

That Oswald was held very tightly in a "vest pocket" operation by evil, evil, evil James Angleton and/or the mysterious Special Affairs Staff, not to uncover moles and/or triple-agents in the Soviet Russia Division (George Kisevalter comes to mind as an excellent candidate) mind you, but to patsy, goddammit, in the planned-since-at-least-1947 Assassination of JFK in such a way as to "justify" our nuking the bejesus out of Russia and invading Cuba, too?

And ... shhhhh...... so that George Soros, and the Clintons, and the Koch Bros and their ilk could take over the world, leaving us to read The Warren Report and 1984 over and over and over again?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Which "impressive" document, in lieu of your very own "brainwashed"-by-Morley-and-"Jumbo Duh" half-baked thoughts, are you going to post for us now, Mike?

Something that you've already posted three or four times?

LOL

Thomas, you really a rotten thread-mate. I WAS being low Key and onobtrusive.

Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Walton on September 28, 2019, 03:26:36 PM
Good to see Clark and Graves sharing the love on here. LOL
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
Thomas, you really a rotten thread-mate. I WAS being low Key and onobtrusive.

Michael,

Yeah, you're right.

I can't  do anything right by you, can I.

Your buddy, Mudd Wrassler Tommy  ;)

PS  That all you got?
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on September 28, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
Michael,

.........

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Which "impressive" document, in lieu of your very own "brainwashed"-by-Morley-and-"Jumbo Duh" half-baked thoughts, are you going to post for us now, Mike?

Something that you've already posted three or four times?

LOL

And it is fantastically rich that you accuse me of posting the same thing repeatedly.

For three years no one has heard anything from you except: “... but, but, but Bagely... he’s so, so, so.. well-endowed. Just look! And, and, and,... there is this video you should watch.”

Your desperate attempts to be either relevant or annoying, come hell or high-water, are hopefully going to become a thing of the past soon. Take pottery classes or something, please.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 07:59:29 PM
And it is fantastically rich that you accuse me of posting the same thing repeatedly.

For three years no one has heard anything from you except: “... but, but, but Bagely... he’s so, so, so.. well-endowed. Just look! And, and, and,... there is this video you should watch.”


Michael,

Thanks for reminding me (and confessing that you haven't watched John Newman's two-part 2018 "Spy Wars" video in its entirety yet) --

Did you ever finish that letter to Newman and Professor Scott?  You know, the one in which you're gonna set 'em straight about your hero, false-defector Yuri Nosenko?

--  MWT   ;)



Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
That two-part John Newman youtube video is too convoluted, too complicated, it has way too many Russian names in it, and, most importantly of all, it doesn't portray James Angleton as an evil, evil man,Tennent H. Bagley as the sadistic incompetent he obviously was, and Anatoliy Golitsyn as an over-the-top Paranoiac Delusional ...

... so there's really no reason for you to watch it, right?

Especially since you already know everything there is to know about the humanitarian organization formerly known as the KGB!

THE COLD WAR IS OVER!

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on September 28, 2019, 09:35:22 PM
Michael,

Thanks for reminding me (and confessing that you haven't watched John Newman's two-part 2018 "Spy Wars" video in its entirety yet) --

Did you ever finish that letter to Newman and Professor Scott?  You know, the one in which you're gonna set 'em straight about your hero, false-defector Yuri Nosenko?

--  MWT   ;)

Like I said........
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on September 28, 2019, 09:36:59 PM
That two-part John Newman youtube video is too convoluted, too complicated, it has way too many Russian names in it, and, most importantly of all, it doesn't portray James Angleton as an evil, evil man,Tennent H. Bagley as the sadistic incompetent he obviously was, and Anatoliy Golitsyn as an over-the-top Paranoiac Delusional ...

... so there's really no reason for you to watch it, right?

Especially since you already know everything there is to know about the humanitarian organization formerly known as the KGB!

THE COLD WAR IS OVER!

LOL

-- MWT  ;)


The same tired song.... over and over and over and over again...

Yawn.....
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on September 28, 2019, 11:15:20 PM

The same tired song.... over and over and over and over again...

Yawn.....


Poor Michael Clark, who, like most Americans, is incredibly ignorant on matters KGB because he not only refuses to read what I've suggested to him and won't watch a two-part video by CTer extraordinaire John Newman, but has swallowed the message of Oliver Stone's JFK so "hook, line and sinker" that he believes we were living in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State" until the Ruskies helped Donald Trump get "elected," or at least doesn't realize that they did.

Sad.  Very, very sad ...

--  MWT  ;)

PS  What's older and more tiring than the "The Military-Industrial-Intelligence-Community-Complex Murdered JFK" song?
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on October 02, 2019, 09:54:18 PM
Poor Michael Clark, who, like most Americans, is incredibly ignorant on matters KGB because he not only refuses to read what I've suggested to him and won't watch a two-part video by CTer extraordinaire John Newman, but has swallowed the message of Oliver Stone's JFK so "hook, line and sinker" that he believes we were living in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State" until the Ruskies helped Donald Trump get "elected," or at least doesn't realize that they did.

Sad.  Very, very sad ...

--  MWT  ;)

PS  What's older and more tiring than the "The Military-Industrial-Intelligence-Community-Complex Murdered JFK" song?
You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Michael Clark on October 03, 2019, 12:33:23 AM
You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Thomas believes in the “Monster Plot”. He likes the Newman Video because, at the time, Newman believed Nosenko to be a a false defector. Nosenko claimed that the KGB had no interest in Oswald. Thomas believes that LHO didit, at the behest of the KGB.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 03, 2019, 01:46:42 AM
Thomas believes in the “Monster Plot”. He likes the Newman Video because, at the time, Newman believed Nosenko to be a a false defector. Nosenko claimed that the KGB had no interest in Oswald. Thomas believes that LHO didit, at the behest of the KGB.

Michael,

"At the time," as in March, 2018?  Gasp ... a whole year-and-a-half ago?

Has Professor John Newman changed his mind back to believing Yuri Nosenko was a true defector?  (If he ever believed that, that is.)

Where can I read his saying that, or watch him say that in a more recent video, Mike?

Gasp ... Did you finally send him that letter informing him about Richards J. Heuer's essay and ... gasp ... HSCA perjurer John L. Hart's full 187-page, unredacted report that wasn't released until 2017?

LOL

Or did you just make that up, when you used the past tense and put in the phrase "at the time"?

Regarding LHO, not necessarily. Being a true (although underinformed) Marxist or Marxist-Leninist, and being fed up with both Soviet and U.S. culture and society, and maybe fed up with being used as a pawn by both the KGB and the CIA/FBI, he may have given them both the middle finger salute and taken matters into his own hands -- to speed up the "Dialectics".

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Do you believe we live in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State," Mike?

I do. 

Well, at least a stupid, stupid, stupid country (the U.S.) that's manipulated by the evil, evil, evil Deep State that used to be called the KGB (and the GRU), but nowadays is called the FSB and the SVR (they sound so nice, da?). 

And the good-old GRU, of course, home of the 13 Ruskie "Guccifer 2.0" hackers and DNCLeaks denizens who helped bring Donad "Useful Idiot" Trump to power.

Possible civil war looming now in the U.S., and First Chief Directorate Counterintelligence Division Lieutenant-Colonel (Ret.) multi-multi-billionaire Vladimir Putin is jumping for joy.

Keep up the good work, Mike, I'm pretty sure Vladimir loves what you, and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum, et al., do.

PPS  Did you know that on page 407-408 of his 1994 book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA, Mark Riebling says that by the end of 1993, almost 94 percent of the falsifiabe things Nosenko's nemesis, Anatoliy Golitsyn, had predicted in his 1984 "Monster Plot" book, New Lies for Old, had already come true?
https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity

Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 03, 2019, 04:47:34 AM

You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on October 03, 2019, 05:27:20 PM
Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.

Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 03, 2019, 07:40:52 PM
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.

Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on October 06, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
I am brainwashed by Newman and Simpich et al? I am not the person citing their opinions to support my conspiracy view. That would be you.

To be explicit about my view: Lee Oswald shot JFK. We'll never understand his motives (those went with him) but they were probably, in part, because of JFK's covert war on Castro and Cuba. And also because of his extreme hatred of the US system in general and because he wanted to become a historic figure.

About 10 days before the assassination he visits the FBI headquarters in Dallas and leaves a rather "provocative" note. That's not the act of someone conspiring to kill the president ten days later. He's drawing attention to himself. The day before the assassination he retrieves his old rifle. He has to get a ride the next day from a co-worker.

These are the acts of a desperate person, working on his own, using his meager resources. It's not the act of any conspiracy. Where is the help?

Norman Mailer interviewed several dozen former KGB agents when he went to Minsk. These were the men assigned to the Oswald matter. All said that Oswald was viewed as a crank, an unstable person and they didn't want anything to do with him. He was simply not someone they could use. Mailer also interviewed many of Oswald's colleagues, associates and co-workers. None describe him as being missing for any length of time where he would have received this KGB training.

All of this evidence that Begley ignores completely undermines his argument that Nosenko was a triple agent or a "fake" defector. Even assuming for the sake of it that Nosenko was a false defector, it's an absurd leap to argue that because he said the KGB never used Oswald that in fact Oswald was a trained KGB operative sent back to the US. You need proof of this training and there isn't any.

Finally, no on here responds to your posts because you come across as not exactly the type of guy a person wants as his neighbor. In other words, you need to work on your charm and charisma if you want people to talk with you.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
I am brainwashed by Newman and Simpich et al? I am not the person citing their opinions to support my conspiracy view. That would be you.

To be explicit about my view: Lee Oswald shot JFK. We'll never understand his motives (those went with him) but they were probably, in part, because of JFK's covert war on Castro and Cuba. And also because of his extreme hatred of the US system in general and because he wanted to become a historic figure.

About 10 days before the assassination he visits the FBI headquarters in Dallas and leaves a rather "provocative" note. That's not the act of someone conspiring to kill the president ten days later. He's drawing attention to himself. The day before the assassination he retrieves his old rifle. He has to get a ride the next day from a co-worker.

These are the acts of a desperate person, working on his own, using his meager resources. It's not the act of any conspiracy. Where is the help?

Norman Mailer interviewed several dozen former KGB agents when he went to Minsk. These were the men assigned to the Oswald matter. All said that Oswald was viewed as a crank, an unstable person and they didn't want anything to do with him. He was simply not someone they could use. Mailer also interviewed many of Oswald's colleagues, associates and co-workers. None describe him as being missing for any length of time where he would have received this KGB training.

All of this evidence that Begley ignores completely undermines his argument that Nosenko was a triple agent or a "fake" defector. Even assuming for the sake of it that Nosenko was a false defector, it's an absurd leap to argue that because he said the KGB never used Oswald that in fact Oswald was a trained KGB operative sent back to the US. You need proof of this training and there isn't any.

Finally, no on here responds to your posts because you come across as not exactly the type of guy a person wants as his neighbor. In other words, you need to work on your charm and charisma if you want people to talk with you.

Steven,

Glad to see you and I agree that Oswald shot JFK.

My hero, your Tennent H. Begley [sic], was, by all accounts, not a student of the assassination. He was intrigued, however, by the fact that false defector Yuri Nosenko not only implausibly claimed to have been in charge of Oswald's KGB file three or four times (and to have been the one who recommended his not being allowed to stay in the USSR, etc), but that the KGB hadn't even interviewed the former Marine Corps radar operator.

Newman, trusting (hopefully not on all things!) KGB Colonel Oleg Nechiporenko, believes KGB interviewed Oswald twice.

Meebe more.

(I can't find it now, but I've read somewhere that Bagley believed Nosenko's implausible statement indicated that the KGB had had a prior relationship with Oswald.)

Bagley's main concern was trying to protect the CIA (and the FBI, too, I suppose) from being penetrated by Soviet intelligence, and for his employer, the CIA, to penetrate Soviet intelligence. As a result of his very thorough "studying" and with a little help from James Angleton (who insisted he read Golitsyn's file right after he and fluent Russian-speaker George Kisevalter had interviewed Nosenko five times in Geneva in 1962) he became convinced that Golitsyn was a true defector and Nosenko a false one.

Bagley, no "sadistic incompetent" as Michael Clark claims, realized that Anatoliy Golitsyn and Pyotr Deriabin and a few others were true defectors, and that Aleksey Kulak (FBI's Fedora) and Dimitri Polyakov (FBI's Top Hat; CIA's Bourbon) and several others were triple-agents, that Yuri Nosenko and a few others were false defectors, and that never-uncovered Edward Ellis Smith (and probably someone in the SR Division he helped KGB to recruit), and a never-uncovered code-clerk called "Jack" by the KGB, and possibly one or two others (my personal favorite: Bagley's erstwhile colleague in interviewing Nosenko -- George Kisevalter) were "moles".

As far as the JFK assassination was concerned, he, like you, was what people in the so-called research community call a "Lone Nutter".

I vacillate between being a "Lone Nutter" and a "Conspiracy Theorist," but that doesn't mean I sometimes believe Oswald conspired with the evil, evil, evil CIA, or the Mafia, or The Minutemen.  If he conspired at all, it was with the likes of Igor Vaganov, Miguel Casas Saez, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, and/or long-term KGB "illlegal" George DeMohrenschildt (yes, I know he wasn't in town at the time, but still ...)

Have a nice day, and I mean it goddammit.

Your buddy,
Mudd Wrassler Tommy  ;)

PS  If I were in my "Oswald Was Trained Or Programmed By The KGB" mode right now, in answer to your demand that I produce evidence of same, I would either refer you to Ion Pacepa's book, or would reply to you that I'm seriously thinking about filing some "Freedom of Information" requests in that highly transparent country known as The Great Russian Empire.

A little sarcasm, there, Steven. To brighten up your day. Please don't run away, now ...

LOL

PPS  I moved to the Czech Republic in 1993, and I detected paranoia among many of the older people who were living there.

One can only wonder at how paranoid (and controlled?) Mailer's interviewees were in 1992, or whenever.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 07, 2019, 02:43:19 PM
Glad to see you and I agree that Oswald shot JFK. -- LOL
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 03:27:37 PM
Glad to see you and I agree that Oswald shot JFK. -- LOL

Otto,

Well at least you read my post, so there's hope for you yet that you might eventually learn something real.

Btw, are you saying that Steven M. Galbraith doesn't believe Oswald killed JFK?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 07, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
Certainly not, from what I've seen, Galbraith is firmly rooted in the Von P landfill, like this one

The more evidence of Oswald's guilt is, for the conspiracy advocates, more evidence of his innocence. Why? Because it's faked and, thus, evidence of a conspiracy.

When Garrison said that you have to think that "Up is down and down is up" he was revealing how conspiracists look at this event. A thousand pieces of evidence that Oswald shot JFK is, for them, a thousand pieces of evidence that he didn't.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
Certainly not, from what I've seen, Galbraith is firmly rooted in the Von P landfill, like this one

Otto,

It's a pity (British English) you're so ignorant on matters JFK Assassination, even though you've probably got xxxxxxxxxx memorized by heart.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 07, 2019, 06:21:09 PM
Otto,

It's a pity (British English) you're so ignorant on matters JFK Assassination, even though you've probably got xxxxxxxxxx memorized by heart.

-- MWT  ;)

I'm not sure what "matter" you're referring to as the case, IMO, is so vast that a single person can not be expected to cover everything even in a lifetime.

Good luck with your Galbraith buddy project!
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 08:19:36 PM
I'm not sure what "matter" you're referring to as the case, IMO, is so vast that a single person can not be expected to cover everything even in a lifetime.

Good luck with your Galbraith buddy project!

Otto,

My android ran out of juice and then I forgot that I wanted to fill "xxxxxxxxxxxx," above (couldn't remember the title at the time).

CROSSFIRE: THE PLOT THAT KILLED KENNEDY, by Jim Marrs.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 07, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
Otto,

My android ran out of juice and then I forgot that I wanted to fill "xxxxxxxxxxxx," above (couldn't remember the title at the time).

CROSSFIRE: THE PLOT THAT KILLED KENNEDY, by Jim Marrs.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

Well, since we now have the substitution in place I kinda hate break it to you: your assumption was wrong.

Don't let it ruin your day ;-)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 10:39:04 PM
Well, since we now have the substitution in place I kinda hate break it to you: your assumption was wrong.

Don't let it ruin your day ;-)

Hey Otto.

What's with the attitude?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  What brought you to this forum?

1)  Oliver Stone's  JFK

or

2)  General hatred of the USA?
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 07, 2019, 10:59:04 PM
Hey Otto.

What's with the attitude?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  What brought you to this forum?

1)  Oliver Stone's  JFK

or

2)  General hatred of the USA?

Neither.
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 07, 2019, 11:55:32 PM
Neither.

Perfect Engish.

Tak.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
Post by: Otto Beck on October 08, 2019, 05:53:41 AM
Perfect Engish.

Tak.

-- MWT  ;)

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