JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on September 24, 2019, 02:52:30 AM
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Four years ago, the great Linda Giovanna Zambanini posted, at the so-called Education Forum, a contrast-adjusted version of Betzner-2 which I believe shows Mrs. Robert A. Reid (aka Jeraldean Bray Reid) wearing glasses, not unlike the way Betzner-3 shows Gloria Calvery wearing them on Elm Street.
Jeraldean is standing directly above Mr. Towner's left shoulder, just to the left of white-blouse-wearing Betty Dragoo.
To see Linda's contrast-adjusted version, scroll 1/3 of the way down on page ten. It's the photo that has both red and white labeling on it:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22100-where-was-roy-truly-right-after-the-last-shot-was-fired/page/10/
-- MWT ;)
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Betzner-2:
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/BetznerCrop.jpg)
But Mrs Reid said in her testimony that she was standing "directly in front of the main entrance". This particular blob is not directly in front of the main entrance.
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Betzner-2:
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/BetznerCrop.jpg)
But Mrs Reid said in her testimony that she was standing "directly in front of the main entrance". This particular blob is not directly in front of the main entrance.
John,
Mrs. Reid, and the two "Khaki Guys," and Stetson Man, and Lupe "Lucy" Marciel Witaker, and Patricia Ann Lawrence (now Donaldson), and Virgie Rackley Baker, and Helen Dragoo, and Carolyn Arnold, and Bonnie Richey, and Ochus Campbell, and Roy "Shortie" Truly (on the sidewalk behind them?), et al., were standing in a curved line in the street that stretched from the tip of the "island" to EDIT: a point in the street constituting a part of the virtual Houston Street curb if Elm Street Extension didn't exist.
Even Don Roberdeau's "updated" map shows the line I'm talking about, although he obviously has some of the people on the "island" and in the line out of place:
So yes, she was pretty much standing directly in front of the TSBD entrance.
-- MWT ;)
Scroll down to almost the halfway point to see the Wiegman enlargement (on which Linda Giovanna Zambanini has labeled six people in this line), and notice the car parked at the Elm Street Extension curb in the background, proving that these people aren't standing on the sidewalk.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22100-where-was-roy-truly-right-after-the-last-shot-was-fired/page/9/
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In Betzner 2 above you can see the end of the building with the sign listing the book publishers. The blob that is supposedly Reid in Betzner 2 is not in front of the entrance.
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In Betzner 2 above you can see the end of the building with the sign listing the book publishers. The blob that is supposedly Reid in Betzner 2 is not in front of the entrance.
John,
You need to find a "bird's eye" graphic representation of Dealey Plaza showing how that curving line of people stretched from the tip of the "island" to EDIT: a point in the street where the Houston Street curb would be if Elm Street Extension didn't exist. Check it out on Don Roberdeau's "updated" map. Roberdeau does have a few people on the "island" out of place, but, "miracles never cease," he does have "Stetson Man" and Reid marked correctly.
Watching the Towner film as the limo is going around the curve, and noticing "Stetson Man" and dark-clad Lucy Whitaker and Patricia Ann Lawrence (now Donaldson) to the right of "Stetson Man" in the background might help you, too. Iirc, you can watch a relatively clear and slow-mo version of Towner in the National Geographic's youtube video, "The Lost Bullet".
That's how I spotted "Stetson Man" and the others in the background, and started realizing that they weren't standing on the sidewalk or on the "island," after all, but in that curving line I've been referring to.
-- MWT ;)
PS Taking dressed-in-white "Stetson Man" as a good "landmark," let me ask you a question:
Where do you believe he was standing in Wiegman?
1) On the "island"?
2) On the sidewalk in front of the TSBD?
3) In the street?
4) ?
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Check it out on Don Roberdeau's "updated" map. Roberdeau does have a few people on the "island" out of place, but, "miracles never cease," he does have "Stetson Man" and Reid marked correctly.
The “Reid” on that map is neither in front of the entrance nor next to the people labeled Truly and Campbell.
So the question is, what’s the reason for thinking it’s Reid?
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The “Reid” on that map is neither in front of the entrance nor next to the people labeled Truly and Campbell.
So the question is, what’s the reason for thinking it’s Reid?
John,
Question: Did I say Roberdeau got "Stetson Man" and Reid right?
Answer: Yes, I did.
Question: Did I say Roberdeau got everybody we've been talking about right?
Answer: No, I didn't.
-- MWT ;)
PS If you were standing were Roberdeau has "Reid" marked, and you had to tell the FBI where you were standing, wouldn't you be inclined to say, "In front of the TSBD entrance," or would you be concerned that you'd be charged with perjury or some-such thing if you said that?
LOL
PPS Do you fancy yourself the world's greatest criminal defense attorney, tryin' to get your client (Oswald) "off" by blinding the jury with nitpicky objections to every single thing so that it (the jury) will be severly challenged to remember the overall, incriminating pattern of evidence in the deliberation room?
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PS If you were standing were Roberdeau has "Reid" marked, and you had to tell the FBI where you were standing, wouldn't you be inclined to say, "In front of the TSBD entrance,"
No. I would be inclined to say I stood in front of the entrance if I stood in front of the entrance.
And if I were Campbell, I would be inclined to say that Reid was at my elbow if she was at my elbow.
PPS Do you fancy yourself the world's greatest criminal defense attorney, tryin' to get your client (Oswald) "off" by blinding the jury with nitpicky objections to every single thing so that it (the jury) will be severly challenged to remember the overall, incriminating pattern of evidence in the deliberation room?
What are you babbling about now? What does Jeraldean Reid’s location have to do with getting Oswald off?
Should a jury or anyone else just accept that this person is Mrs Reid because “Tommy says so”?
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No. I would be inclined to say I stood in front of the entrance if I stood in front of the entrance.
John,
If you were standing where Roberdeau has "Reid" on his map, and you had to describe to the FBI where you were standing, how would you put it?
-- MWT ;)
PS Clarification: In her March 1964 statement to the FBI, Reid didn't say she was standing "in front of the entrance," she said she was standing "in front of the Texas School Book Company building." Period.
Go to page 79 of the document for her statement:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
-- MWT ;D
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Mr. BELIN. Well, turning to Exhibit 361, the top of Exhibit 361 faces south and this is Houston Street, here is the School Book Depository Building that I am pointing to.
Can you give any estimate as to where you were with relation to this, well, I will call it a peninsula of land between the parkway and the building.
Mrs. REID. You have got me turned around.
Mr. BELIN. The parade was coming along Houston.
Mrs. REID. I was standing about along in here, in here.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing a little bit to the north of the spot marked "B" on Exhibit 361.
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And you would be directly in front of the main entrance of the School Book Depository, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is correct
Mr. BELIN. Now, by "B" I am referring to, on Exhibit 361, I am referring to the pen ink--pen and ink "B" which is directly to the east of what I will call the traffic light on that peninsula of land as Elm goes into the parkway there. All right, what did you see?
Unfortunately, it's not really clear where the "B" is in CE 361. Or the "T" that Truly supposedly put there.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/CE361.jpg)
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Mr. BELIN. Well, turning to Exhibit 361, the top of Exhibit 361 faces south and this is Houston Street, here is the School Book Depository Building that I am pointing to.
Can you give any estimate as to where you were with relation to this, well, I will call it a peninsula of land between the parkway and the building.
Mrs. REID. You have got me turned around.
Mr. BELIN. The parade was coming along Houston.
Mrs. REID. I was standing about along in here, in here.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing a little bit to the north of the spot marked "B" on Exhibit 361.
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And you would be directly in front of the main entrance of the School Book Depository, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is correct
Mr. BELIN. Now, by "B" I am referring to, on Exhibit 361, I am referring to the pen ink--pen and ink "B" which is directly to the east of what I will call the traffic light on that peninsula of land as Elm goes into the parkway there. All right, what did you see?
Unfortunately, it's not really clear where the "B" is in CE 361. Or the "T" that Truly supposedly put there.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/CE361.jpg)
John,
1) She evidently was lousy at directions and "spatial reasoning"
2) Belin led her
3) "B" as in blob?
-- MWT ;)
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Thanks. Useful as ever.
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Thanks. Useful as ever.
You got it, John.
Anytime.
-- MWT ;)