JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Paul May on May 07, 2019, 10:25:03 PM

Title: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Paul May on May 07, 2019, 10:25:03 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/cynthia-thomas-state-department-widow-who-won-presidential-apology-dies-at-82/2019/03/20/4bd2aaf2-4938-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 01:07:15 AM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/cynthia-thomas-state-department-widow-who-won-presidential-apology-dies-at-82/2019/03/20/4bd2aaf2-4938-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html

Interesting article, Paul. Thank you for posting it.

As you probably know, James Angleton suspected that the KGB and the DGI were behind the assassination, and we now know that the Soviet Embassy "security guard" who volunteered, over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline, the radioactive name Kostikov to an Oswald imposter on 10/02/63, Ivan Obyedkov, was a triple-agent still loyal to the Kremlin.

-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Paul May on May 08, 2019, 01:31:26 AM
Thanks for your comment Thomas. It?s a fascinating human interest story about one family and how the events of that era may or may not have destroyed a man. Cynthia Thomas was an extraordinary woman. She deserved recognition. As there are so few actual researchers on this forum I?m hardly surprised at the lack of comments. It?s much easier for most to simply argue the same crap day after day.
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Charles Collins on May 08, 2019, 01:57:10 AM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/cynthia-thomas-state-department-widow-who-won-presidential-apology-dies-at-82/2019/03/20/4bd2aaf2-4938-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html

Thanks for the link to the article Paul. Hugh Aynesworth writes in his book ?November 22, 1963 Witness to History? (page 109) that Joe Hosty said that there were some aspects concerning that trip to Mexico worth investigating.
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Paul May on May 08, 2019, 02:37:09 AM
Charles, I agree with Hosty. MC is one part of the Oswald story I cannot reconcile. I doubt I ever will.
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 03:40:04 AM
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Charles, I agree with Hosty. MC is one part of the Oswald story I cannot reconcile. I doubt I ever will.

Paul and Charles,

As for a possible reason for CIA's and FBI's not "following up" in Mexico City in a timely manner (and actually covering up, instead), please see my most recent post in the Photo and Film section on the thread titled Have Doyle and Graves Proven That These Are The Same People?

As a footnote, it's interesting to note that Richard Helms' right-hand man, Thomas Karamessines, practically peed his pants when he found out that the Mexican Police were interrogating Sylvia Duran, and Helms, himself, was anxious as hell that Ambassador Mann not push his "Castro Did it" suspicions too hard.

-- MWT   ;)
   
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Tom Scully on May 08, 2019, 06:48:44 AM
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Thanks for your comment Thomas. It?s a fascinating human interest story about one family and how the events of that era may or may not have destroyed a man. Cynthia Thomas was an extraordinary woman. She deserved recognition. As there are so few actual researchers on this forum I?m hardly surprised at the lack of comments. It?s much easier for most to simply argue the same crap day after day.

Charles  Thomas had served 18 years in the foreign service at the time of his involuntary seperation from the Dept. of State...
Page 6 of 6:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263513.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MacomberCynthiaThomas.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/DevineMacomberBestMan.jpg)

Quote
https://books.google.com/books?id=jRvdwoKQOgQC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=george+bush+devine+bemis+meeting&source=bl&ots=u7Yvu_GF9z&sig=16xsVqU5CrpyRAZn1Q7pKu0XPcI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUqe7Rk6zLAhXrlIMKHYevB60Q6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=george%20bush%20devine%20bemis%20meeting&f=false
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a ?
Jeffrey A. Engel ? 2011 ? ‎History
The Making of a Global President Jeffrey A. Engel ? Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future?very thoughtful of them.5 All I know ?

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.....
First, the core accusation, hyper curiousity displayed by team Bush towards Lord knowledge, as the HSCA geared up
and it had become clear republicans would lose control of the presidency and of the CIA. This answers the question
of why risk rattling Billy Lord's cage if you were among the innermost Bush circle?

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BillyLordLetterDescriptionCrop.jpg)
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 03:38:42 PM
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.....

Leave it to Tom Scully to barge in and muck everything up.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on May 08, 2019, 05:54:34 PM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/cynthia-thomas-state-department-widow-who-won-presidential-apology-dies-at-82/2019/03/20/4bd2aaf2-4938-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html
Philip Shenon focuses major parts of his book on the WC, "A Cruel and Shocking Act", on Charles Thomas' concerns that the government didn't fully look into allegations that Oswald was seen with Cuban officials when he went to Mexico City. Thomas was convinced that Oswald did indeed go there, that Oswald wasn't impersonated, but didn't think that what Oswald did there was looked into completely. But Thomas admitted that even if the reports were true, e.g, the so-called "Twist Party" where Oswald was allegedly seen with Cuban officials, it didn't indicate there was a conspiracy.

As he (Thomas) said in a memo in 1969 to then Secretary of State William Rogers, "Even if all of the allegations in the attached memo are true, they would not, in themselves, prove there was a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy." But he said that if the allegations were revealed to the public that "those who have tried to discredit the Warren Commission would have a field day in speculating about their implications."

For what it's worth, I think Oswald did attend that party - Silvia Duran lied about it - and probably did meet with either Cuban officials or pro-Cuban people who may have helped fuel his anti-JFK views regarding Cuba. But connecting those conversations with the events in Dallas two months later is a reach.

Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 07:23:20 PM
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Philip Shenon focuses major parts of his book on the WC on Charles Thomas' concerns that the government didn't fully look into allegations that Oswald was seen with Cuban officials when he went to Mexico City. Thomas was convinced that Oswald did indeed go there, that Oswald wasn't impersonated, but didn't think what he did there wasn't looked into adequately. But Thomas admitted that even if the reports were true, e.g, the so-called "Twist Party" where Oswald was allegedly seen with Cuban officials, it didn't indicate there was a conspiracy.

As he (Thomas) said in a memo in 1969 to then Secretary of State William Rogers, "Even if all of the allegations in the attached memo are true, they would not, in themselves, prove there was a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy." But he said that if the allegations were revealed to the public that "those who have tried to discredit the Warren Commission would have a field day in speculating about their implications."

For what it's worth, I think Oswald did attend that party - Silvia Duran lied about it - and probably did meet with either Cuban officials or pro-Cuban people who may have helped fuel his anti-JFK views regarding Cuba. But connecting those conversations with the events in Dallas two months later is a reach.

Dear Steven,

It's pretty widely accepted by John Newman, et al., that Oswald was impersonated over the phone in Mexico City on 9/28/63 and on 10/02/63 by ... gasp ... the evil, evil, evil CIA.

I agree that Oswald was impersonated over the phone in Mexico City, but by the CIA???

If so, how then are we to explain the fact that the "Oswald" Sylvia Duran claimed, during her right-after-the-assassination interrogations by the Mexican Police, to have dealt with on 9/27/63 was "short" (Duran was 5' 3.5" --  Leonov was 5' 7" -- Oswald was 5' 9.5") and "blond"? 

And the fact that she elaborated on that a bit in her 1978 HSCA testimony when she said he was "blue or green-eyed, skinny, and blond-haired"?

And then, of course, there's Eusebio Azcue's HSCA description of "Oswald," which leaves no doubt that he's fingering skinny, 35 year-old, blond-haired, suit-wearing, very thin-faced KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov -- for having provided Duran and himself, either directly or through a DGI surrogate, with instructions and a passport-sized photo (or two) of sweater-vest-wearing Oswald that was taken of Oswald while he was still in the USSR ...

Edit:  And that the Soviet Embassy "security guard" who "volunteered" the KGB-made-radioactive name "Kostikov" to the playing-along, over-the-phone Oswald impostor on 10/02/63 was no e other than triple-agent (i.e., still loyal to the Kremlin) Ivan Obyedkov?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Paul May on May 08, 2019, 07:36:16 PM
Good posting.  Loaded with information.
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 08:25:28 PM
Philip Shenon focuses major parts of his book on the WC on Charles Thomas' concerns that the government didn't fully look into allegations that Oswald was seen with Cuban officials when he went to Mexico City. Thomas was convinced that Oswald did indeed go there, that Oswald wasn't impersonated, but didn't think what he did there wasn't looked into adequately. But Thomas admitted that even if the reports were true, e.g, the so-called "Twist Party" where Oswald was allegedly seen with Cuban officials, it didn't indicate there was a conspiracy.

As he (Thomas) said in a memo in 1969 to then Secretary of State William Rogers, "Even if all of the allegations in the attached memo are true, they would not, in themselves, prove there was a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy." But he said that if the allegations were revealed to the public that "those who have tried to discredit the Warren Commission would have a field day in speculating about their implications."

For what it's worth, I think Oswald did attend that party - Silvia Duran lied about it - and probably did meet with either Cuban officials or pro-Cuban people who may have helped fuel his anti-JFK views regarding Cuba. But connecting those conversations with the events in Dallas two months later is a reach.


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Dear Steven,

It's pretty widely accepted by John Newman, et al., that Oswald was impersonated over the phone in Mexico City on 9/28/63 and on 10/02/63 by ... gasp ... the evil, evil, evil CIA.

I agree that Oswald was impersonated over the phone in Mexico City, but by the CIA???

And regarding the possibility that Oswald really was at the Cuban Consulate on 9/28/63, or that he was somehow physically impersonated there by the evil, evil, evil CIA, how are we to explain the fact that the "Oswald" Sylvia Duran claimed (during her right-after-the-assassination interrogations by the Mexican Police) to have dealt with was "short" (Duran was 5' 3.5" --  KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov was 5' 7" -- Oswald was 5' 9.5") and "blond"?  And that she elaborated on that a bit in her HSCA testimony when she said he was "blue or green-eyed, skinny, and blond-haired"?

And then, of course, there's Eusebio Azcue's HSCA description of "Oswald," which leaves no doubt that he's fingering the aforementioned skinny, 35 year-old, blond-haired, suit-wearing, very thin-faced Leonov -- for having provided Duran and himself, either directly or through a DGI surrogate, with instructions and a passport-sized photo (or two) of sweater vest-wearing Oswald that very well could have been taken of Oswald while he was still in the USSR ...

Edit:  And that the Soviet Embassy "security guard" who "volunteered," over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline, the KGB-made-radioactive name "Kostikov" to the playing-along, Oswald impersonator on 10/02/63 was none other than triple-agent (i.e., still loyal to the Kremlin) Ivan Obyedkov?

-- MWT   ;)

Edited and bumped for Steven M. Galbraith, et al.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 08, 2019, 11:34:41 PM
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Good posting.  Loaded with information.

Thanks, Paul.

Unfortunately, none of the "LNers" (like yourself), or traditional "The Evil, Evil, Evil CIA and the Deep State Did It!" CTers (like James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the EF) are willing to touch this stuff (what I've written above is just the tip of the iceberg, btw) with a ten-foot pole, and yet we wonder how we ended up with 50-plus years of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories (on many more subjects than just the JFK Assassination), and pro-Putin "useful idiot" Donald Trump as president?

LOL

-- MWT   ;)


 
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 09, 2019, 07:55:55 AM

Crickets ... as is to be expected ... especially from Steven M. Galbraith.

LOL

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 20, 2019, 05:48:57 AM
Quote
The Thomas family acknowledges that theirs is a bizarre and complicated story. But they are convinced with good reason, given what they have discovered that if Thomass personnel records were misfiled it was intentional, and that it was never the real reason for his firing. They are certain that Thomas lost his career and ultimately his will to live because senior officials were determined to shut down his persistent, unwelcome and ultimately fruitless effort to reopen an investigation of JFKs murder.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/22/jfk-documents-could-show-the-truth-about-a-diplomats-death-47-years-ago
 
Title: Re: Cynthia Thomas dreaded being labeled an assassination CT
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on October 20, 2019, 02:15:34 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/22/jfk-documents-could-show-the-truth-about-a-diplomats-death-47-years-ago
His efforts were based on his suspicion that either the Soviets or Cubans were involved in the assassination. Thomas said he believed Oswald shot JFK but that there was evidence, based on Oswald's activities in Mexico City, that he was working with/for either Castro of Moscow.