JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Colin Crow on May 05, 2019, 12:07:20 PM

Title: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 05, 2019, 12:07:20 PM
"Vice-President Nixon, who portrayed himself in his memoirs as one of the original architects of the plan to overthrow Castro, proposed to the CIA that they support "goon squads and other direct action groups" inside and outside of Cuba. The Vice President repeatedly sought to interfere in the invasion planning.  Through his national security aide, Nixon demanded that William Pawley, "a big fat political cat," as Nixon?s aide described him to the CIA, be given briefings and access to CIA officers to share ideas. Pawley pushed the CIA to support untrustworthy exiles as part of the effort to overthrow Castro. ?Security already has been damaged severely,"the head of the invasion planning reported, about the communications made with one, Rubio Padilla, one of Pawley's favorite militants."

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB355/index.htm (https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB355/index.htm)
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 05, 2019, 10:26:09 PM
"President Kennedy?s former press secretary, Pierre Salinger, said Maheu told him the CIA-Mafia plots against Castro were authorized by Nixon:

I knew Maheu well. He told me [in 1968, when Salinger was soliciting Maheu?s boss, Howard Hughes, for a campaign contribution to Robert Kennedy?s White House bid] about his meetings with the Mafia. He said he had been in contact with the CIA, that the CIA had been in touch with Nixon, who had asked them to go forward with this project . . . It was Nixon who had him [Maheu] do a deal with the Mafia in Florida to kill Castro.?"

http://www.thehistoryreader.com/contemporary-history/nixons-bay-pigs-secrets/ (http://www.thehistoryreader.com/contemporary-history/nixons-bay-pigs-secrets/)
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 06, 2019, 02:55:58 AM
The issue of Cuba came up in the 1960 presidential debates.
Nixon about choked when he heard JFK mention something that he was supposed to have been briefed on and apparently wasn't.
There was a plan to invade Cuba and Kennedy let something about incursion blurt out. I can't recall exactly when...but here is the second of four debates in Oct 1960 & starting around 3:02 ---

Notice that there were no women reporters asking the questions back then :-\
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 06, 2019, 04:43:36 AM
Hi Jerry,

I seem to remember that Kennedy managed to "out-hawk" Nixon on Cuba before the election. This was of much concern to Nixon, after all the Cuba invasion etc were his, yet he was hamstrung at the time of the debates. I had thought it was the during the 4th debate, probably faulty memory.

Clearly the BOP operation and the CIA/Mafia based Castro assassination plots originated with Nixon. After all he was the "President-in-waiting". The blame for CIA/Mafia usually falls to Bissell, but such actions surely required at least WH approval.

Does any evidence exist that the incoming Pres was briefed and approved of the Castro plots?
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 07, 2019, 01:22:53 AM
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Does any evidence exist that the incoming Pres was briefed and approved of the Castro plots?
There is no such evidence because he wasn't briefed on any plot against Castro or any plans to invade Cuba since everyone thought that Richard Nixon would certainly win the election anyway and it wouldn't be necessary.
 Laughable- that Nixon played footsie with Batista but suggested that he didn't consider him a dictator [or if he did ...El Presidente was our dictator] so then he wasn't so bad.
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Richard Rubio on May 07, 2019, 01:38:51 AM
Quote
On October 26, 2017, declassified documents revealed that US Attorney General Robert Kennedy hesitated to recruit the Mafia in assassination attempts on Castro due to his push against organized crime.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fidel_Castro

This sure rings a bell, it would've gone against the trend of what we, the USA, did back in those days.
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 07, 2019, 04:46:40 AM
The relevant document referred to in the wiki entry appears to be this......

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32112745.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32112745.pdf)

A report by David Belin from 1975 (Rockefeller Commission). The faulty memories of Bissell and Edwards, trying to move the Castro plots to the Kennedy administration, are noted. From what I have read so far, RFK was only briefed about the Mafia plots in May 1962 after Houston tells Edwards that the Attorney General should be told the whole story. According to Houston, RFK was displeased about any Mafia involvement and he was to be informed before any such undertakings were proposed in the future. RFK sent a memo to that extent on May 9 to FBI Director Hoover.

It would appear that activity until that time was undertaken by the CIA via the original previous administration approval (read Nixon!).
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Tom Scully on May 07, 2019, 07:32:38 AM
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The relevant document referred to in the wiki entry appears to be this......

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32112745.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32112745.pdf)

A report by David Belin from 1975 (Rockefeller Commission). The faulty memories of Bissell and Edwards, trying to move the Castro plots to the Kennedy administration, are noted.....

It would appear that activity until that time was undertaken by the CIA via the original previous administration approval (read Nixon!).

I believe you are an academic located in a Commonwealth nation. Macomber facilitated (and more) E Howard Hunt's attempt, while of the Nixon white house, to use classified State Dept cables to and from the US embassy in Saigon, Hunt altered to shift blame for the
assassination of South Vietnamese political leadership, attempting to fraudulantly shift blame to the by then deceased Kennedy brothers.

Do you detect a positive contribution, an example of why republicans on the national political stage have served a useful purpose
beneficial to Americans generally, because I am not finding one, except perhaps for whatever limiting influence on democrats knowing
they are being carefully watched, to be held accountable justifiably at times, at other times, not. The only positive thing that comes to mind
is that the sudden deaths of JFK, MLK, and RFK in rather rapid succession were lucky breaks politically and ideologically for Bushes and their
water boys, but apparently not appreciated enough to prevent the recruitment of Bush Hand Macomber to help drive one more ole rusty
nail with Hunt's hammer, into the coffins of those Kennedy brothers.

Will any in a long series of lucky breaks ever be enough to influence deradicalization of US republican or libertarian right?
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 07, 2019, 07:55:32 AM
"As Vice President, Nixon had chaired Special Group 54-12 that coordinated the actions of the CIA and military intelligence during the latter years of the Eisenhower Administration (Groden & Livingstone, I990, p  316). The Special Group or Committee was established by President Eisenhower to serve as a watchdog by monitoring all covert activities. The 54-12 Committee or Special Group included the Director of the CIA, the President's special assistant for national security. the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Undersecretary of State, and by 1957, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (Roberts, I994, p. 97). Nixon was directly involved in the initial planning ofthe Bay of Pigs invasion."

RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, By H. R. Underwood

I can't find any "official" references to the statement that Nixon chaired the Special Group however I did find this which tends to contradict that notion.

"President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/NSChistory.htm#Eisenhower (https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/NSChistory.htm#Eisenhower)
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Tom Scully on May 07, 2019, 09:42:04 AM
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"As Vice President, Nixon had chaired Special Group 54-12 that coordinated the actions of the CIA and military intelligence during the latter years of the Eisenhower Administration (Groden & Livingstone, I990, p  316). The Special Group or Committee was established by President Eisenhower to serve as a watchdog by monitoring all covert activities. The 54-12 Committee or Special Group included the Director of the CIA, the President's special assistant for national security. the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Undersecretary of State, and by 1957, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (Roberts, I994, p. 97). Nixon was directly involved in the initial planning ofthe Bay of Pigs invasion."

RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, By H. R. Underwood

I can't find any "official" references to the statement that Nixon chaired the Special Group however I did find this which tends to contradict that notion.

"President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/NSChistory.htm#Eisenhower (https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/NSChistory.htm#Eisenhower)

Some say 5412 was a deflection and an attempt to discourage the suspicion Majestik-12 had some ufo aliens details it was
holding close. 54 was the year of creation/distraction and 12 was retained from Majestik-12. Nixon being a chair of either 12 group
was unlikely because the purpose of the panel was to fashion a wall of fall guys affording the political leadership, VP and  POTUS,
plausible deniability as to any emerging details of government sponsored dirty work. Majestik-12 and its successor 5412 allegedly authorized all approved Ops in advance. POTUS and VP were always officially out of the loop. The thinness of supporting sources claiming
Nixon chaired either Special  Group is scant, shallow, unimpressive. Plausible deniability at the highest levels is intended to be challenging
to dismantle.
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 08, 2019, 01:41:56 AM
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Macomber facilitated (and more) E Howard Hunt's attempt, while of the Nixon white house, to use classified State Dept cables to and from the US embassy in Saigon, Hunt altered to shift blame for the
assassination of South Vietnamese political leadership, attempting to fraudulantly shift blame to the by then deceased Kennedy brothers.

Hunt's actions might have be some sort of "insurance policy" should leaks of Nixon's involvement with the 1959 Castro plots break before the '72 election. However his attempt to get the story published would indicates a more offensive motivation rather than defensive. Note timing of other "dirty tricks", eg Canuck letter of Feb 1972.
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 08, 2019, 02:48:32 AM
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The thinness of supporting sources claiming
Nixon chaired either Special  Group is scant, shallow, unimpressive. Plausible deniability at the highest levels is intended to be challenging
to dismantle.

Tend to agree about the "plausible deniability" concept should things go south (rather ironic though with Nixon/Watergate don't you think, in the end hard to hold onto).

We do have this on the NSC and structures supporting it's operation under Eisenhower.

"The genesis of the new NSC system was a report prepared for the President in March 1953 by Robert Cutler, who became the President's Special Assistant for National Security Affairs. Cutler proposed a systematic flow of recommendation, decision, and implementation that he later described as the "policy hill" process. At the bottom of the hill, concerned agencies such as State and Defense produced draft policy recommendations on specific topics and worked for consensus at the agency level. These draft NSC papers went up the hill through the Planning Board, created to review and refine the recommendations before passing them on for full NSC consideration. The NSC Planning Board met on Tuesday and Friday afternoons and was composed of officials at the Assistant Secretary level from the agencies with permanent or standing representation on the Council, as well as advisers from the JCS and CIA. Hundreds of hours were spent by the Board reviewing and reconstructing proposed papers for the NSC. Cutler resigned in 1958 in exhaustion. The top of the foreign policy-making hill was the NSC itself, chaired by the President, which met regularly on Thursday mornings.

The Council consisted of the five statutory members: the President, Vice President, Secretaries of State and Defense, and Director of the Office of Defense Mobilization. Depending on the subject under discussion, as many as a score of other senior Cabinet members and advisers, including the Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the JCS, and the Director of Central Intelligence, attended and participated. The agenda included regular briefings by the Director of Central Intelligence on worldwide developments affecting U.S. security, and consideration of the policy papers advanced by the Planning Board. The upshot of the discussions were recommendations to the President in the form of NSC Actions. The President, who participated in the discussion, normally endorsed the NSC Action, and the decision went down the hill for implementation to the Operations Coordinating Board.

President Eisenhower created the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB) to follow up on all NSC decisions. The OCB met regularly on Wednesday afternoons at the Department of State, and was composed of the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Directors of CIA, USIA, and ICA, and the Special Assistants to the President for National Security Affairs and Security Operations Coordination. The OCB was the coordinating and implementing arm of the NSC for all aspects of the implementation of national security policy. NSC action papers were assigned to a team from the OCB for follow-up. More than 40 interagency working groups were established with experts for various countries and subjects. This 24-person staff of the OCB supported these working groups in which officials from various agencies met each other for the first time.

The President's Special Assistant for National Security Affairs, a post held under Eisenhower by Cutler, Dillon Anderson, William H. Jackson, and Gordon Gray, oversaw the flow of recommendations and decisions up and down the policy hill, and functioned in Council meetings to brief the Council and summarize the sense of discussion. The Special Assistant was an essential facilitator of the decision-making system, but, unlike the National Security Adviser created under Kennedy, had no substantive role in the process. The NSC staff managed by the Special Assistant grew during the Eisenhower years, but again had no independent role in the policy process.

President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

and this.....

"Secretary of State Dulles, on the other hand, had reservations about the NSC system. He was the strongest personality in the Eisenhower Cabinet and jealously guarded his role as principal adviser to the President on foreign policy. He had constant, direct access to the President and did not feel that some of the most sensitive issues should be discussed in groups as large as were involved in most NSC meetings. He drew a sharp line between the NSC policy review process and the day-to-day operations of foreign policy, which he maintained were the province of the Department of State. Dulles and his deputies were not comfortable with the scope the NSC review system gave to Secretary of the Treasury George Humphrey, another strong figure in the Cabinet, to intrude budgetary limitations into policy considerations. And Dulles successfully resisted a proposal to substitute the Vice President for the Under Secretary of State as chairman of the OCB, arguing that such a change would impinge on his role as principal adviser to the President on foreign policy."

One wonders who proposed that Nixon should chair the OCB and when things changed after the resignation (April 15) and death (May 24) of Dulles in 1959. Did Nixon assume the chair following the Dulles departure and his expectation as "President in waiting"? I assume this would be a battle between Eisenhower/Nixon and Christian Herter/C. Douglas Dillon.

Interesting to see the following in the Belin, Rockefeller Report.

"C. Douglas Dillon, a member of this Commission, stated that while he served as Under Secretary of State from June 1959 until early January 1961, he heard no discussion of assassination attempts against anyone, except discussions which occurred in late July or early August of 1960 at a meeting at the Pentagon which covered  a great variety of matters in which "...a question regarding the possibility of an assassination attempt against Lumumba was briefly raised. The CIA representative indicated that the Agency did not undertake this sort of operation. This ended consideration of this subject." 
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 08, 2019, 06:14:53 AM
From Belin's Report (Rockefeller Commission 1875)

"The Executive Director requested complete access to papers of the National Security Council including papers of the Forty Committee and its predecessors and papers of any special groups? or special operating groups.? Such access was not granted.  Also, time did not permit examination of documents that might be available in the Eisenhower, Kennedy or Johnson presidential libraries. Consequently, the investigation is not complete with regard to the question of who, if anyone outside the CIA, authorized or directed the planning of any assassination attempts against foreign leaders. However, with particular reference to the plans directed against Fidel Castro, the investigation is sufficiently complete to show that plans were undertaken by the CIA."

Obviously authorization of any plot to assassinate must come from the WH but the limitations placed upon Belin made it impossible to provide those specific when and who details. Given the mid-1959 timing of the "go-ahead" to discuss with Roselli, does anyone think the "Pres in waiting" Nixon was not all over this thing?
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Tom Scully on May 09, 2019, 01:02:44 AM
Colin, what if this excerpt from your last post is a summation of the introduction to explaining why, and Billy Lord outing
"Beamis" aka Fitzgerald Bemiss in 1977 providing a complementary conclusion. (With Macomber carrying water for the principals.)

Of course, this town being the summer home since boyhood of Bush & Bemiss sure doesn't hurt this tale, and neither does the fact Henry Hurt's new father-in-law happened to be a Bemiss relative who was the brother of Freeport Sulphur chairman, Langbourne M Williams.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/HenryHurtKennebunkport.jpg)

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......
President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

and this.....

"Secretary of State Dulles, on the other hand, had reservations about the NSC system. He was the strongest personality in the Eisenhower Cabinet and jealously guarded his role as principal adviser to the President on foreign policy. He had constant, direct access to the President and did not feel that some of the most sensitive issues should be discussed in groups as large as were involved in most NSC meetings. He drew a sharp line between the NSC policy review process and the day-to-day operations of foreign policy, which he maintained were the province of the Department of State. Dulles and his deputies were not comfortable with the scope the NSC review system gave to Secretary of the Treasury George Humphrey, another strong figure in the Cabinet, to intrude budgetary limitations into policy considerations. And Dulles successfully resisted a proposal to substitute the Vice President for the Under Secretary of State as chairman of the OCB, arguing that such a change would impinge on his role as principal adviser to the President on foreign policy."

One wonders who proposed that Nixon should chair the OCB and when things changed after the resignation (April 15) and death (May 24) of Dulles in 1959. Did Nixon assume the chair following the Dulles departure and his expectation as "President in waiting"? I assume this would be a battle between Eisenhower/Nixon and Christian Herter/C. Douglas Dillon.

Interesting to see the following in the Belin, Rockefeller Report.

"C. Douglas Dillon, a member of this Commission, stated that while he served as Under Secretary of State from June 1959 until early January 1961, he heard no discussion of assassination attempts against anyone, except discussions which occurred in late July or early August of 1960 at a meeting at the Pentagon which covered  a great variety of matters in which "...a question regarding the possibility of an assassination attempt against Lumumba was briefly raised. The CIA representative indicated that the Agency did not undertake this sort of operation. This ended consideration of this subject."

In 1963, Phyllis Bernau and William Macomber married...

https://eisenhower.archives.gov/Research/Finding_Aids/pdf/Dulles_John_Foster_Papers/Special_Assistants_Chronological_Series.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FosterDullesAssistantsPhyllisBernauMacomber.jpg)

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP75-00149R000200440037-5.pdf
Washington Star Nov. 4, 1956
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FosterDullesEmergencyNov1956MacomberBernau.jpg)

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Thanks for your comment Thomas. It?s a fascinating human interest story about one family and how the events of that era may or may not have destroyed a man. Cynthia Thomas was an extraordinary woman. She deserved recognition. As there are so few actual researchers on this forum I?m hardly surprised at the lack of comments. It?s much easier for most to simply argue the same crap day after day.

Charles  Thomas had served 18 years in the foreign service at the time of his involuntary seperation from the Dept. of State...
Page 6 of 6:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263513.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MacomberCynthiaThomas.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/DevineMacomberBestMan.jpg)

Quote
https://books.google.com/books?id=jRvdwoKQOgQC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=george+bush+devine+bemis+meeting&source=bl&ots=u7Yvu_GF9z&sig=16xsVqU5CrpyRAZn1Q7pKu0XPcI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUqe7Rk6zLAhXrlIMKHYevB60Q6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=george%20bush%20devine%20bemis%20meeting&f=false
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a ?
Jeffrey A. Engel ? 2011 ? ‎History
The Making of a Global President Jeffrey A. Engel ? Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future?very thoughtful of them.5 All I know ?

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.....
First, the core accusation, hyper curiousity displayed by team Bush towards Lord knowledge, as the HSCA geared up
and it had become clear republicans would lose control of the presidency and of the CIA. This answers the question
of why risk rattling Billy Lord's cage if you were among the innermost Bush circle?

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BillyLordLetterDescriptionCrop.jpg)

If placing all of the above details in one post seems a leap, consider Priscilla Johnson had only one CIA handler, Garry Coit, on
the day of the JFK Assassination.
On April 25, 1963, two weeks after the shooting attempt against Gen. Edwin Walker, close Roschester, NY friends Tom Devine and
Joseph F Dryer, Jr., held seperate meetings in NYC with George DeMohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles.  Devine was posing as
a businessman while taking direction from and providing feedback on George DeM to CIA. Dryer, Jr. claimed to be read in to the degree
he had received a tip the secretary traveling with George DeM and Clemard Joseph Charles was reporting to CIA.

In 1977, Dryer, Jr. was presented to HSCA by James Kelsey Cogswell, III. This resulted in Dryer, Jr. testifying about his business
activities in Haiti and Cuba and his knowledge of DeMohrenschildt. Cogswell was employed in Cuba and HSCA showed him an
artist rendering of Maurice Bishop and asked Cogswell if the drawing resembled his recollection of Bishop.

Cogswell was linked to CIA, had been married to Will Farish's first cousin (daughter of Stephen Farish).
Quote
In 1953, Cogswell, III marries for a second time, to Joan Farish, daughter of Stephen Power Farish, uncle of Bush friend, Will Farish III. Cogswell's best man was George O. Walbridge, 2d.

Walbridge turns up in a 1955 newspaper photo, standing in Havana, next to his boss, Lem Billings of Emerson Drug Co., and the former Cuban dictator Prio's former press secretary.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellBillingsWalbridge.jpg)

It turns out that both Lem Bilings and Walbridge are very close to, and employed by the grandson of the Emerson Drug Co. founder, who also is the nephew by the marriage of Nina McaDoo TO George DeM's late uncle, Ferdinand DeMohrenschildt.

Later reports, including by the HSCA, are that Cogswell, III worked for the CIA, raised money to finance at least one plot to assassinate Castro, knew and socialized with George DeM. and with DeM's other contact, Joseph F. Dryer, was a friend of AMRAZZ-1, aka Joaquin Godoy, and with Antonio Veciana, and had an only sister, Theodora, described in an HSCA report as being acquainted with "Livingston" aka Mitchell Werbell.
Cogswell grew up one mile away
from F Scott Fitzgerald's literary agent, Harold Ober. Cogswell attended Phillips Exeter at the same time as Ober's son, Richard, the future CIA agent close to Angleton. Cogswell first marriage, in 1945, was to the daughter of Cornelius Van Ness. a friend of Fitzgerald in Minnesota, early in his writing career.
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/23/books/the-other-sides-of-paradise.html
The Other Sides of Paradise
By BROOKE ALLEN JULY 23, 1995
...Two new books throw light on the well-known material by telling the life stories of supporting actors in the drama: the Fitzgeralds' daughter, Frances Scott, and the woman with whom Fitzgerald spent the last three years of his life, the Hollywood gossip columnist Sheilah Graham. Both books, oddly enough, are written by their subjects' children....

...DURING her teen-age years in the 1930's, Scottie was fortunate enough to have surrogate parents in the form of Fitzgerald's agent, Harold Ober, and his wife, Anne. She attended Vassar, wrote short stories for several magazines (including The New Yorker) at a precocious age, and in 1943 married Samuel Jackson Lanahan, a law student who came from a well-to-do Baltimore family. The couple moved to Washington, where Lanahan joined the Justice Department. There they became one of the best-and-brightest glamour couples of the heady 50's and 60's. ...
Quote
Fitzgerald conference offers many perspectives on a literary giant ...
https://www.twincities.com/2017/06/28/f-scott-fitzgerald-conference/
Jun 28, 2017 - As president of the organization Fitzgerald in St. Paul, Wilson, joined by his ... During a noon signing, about 30 books were sold, and Page and ... Kilmarnok was opened in 1921 by Cornelius Van Ness, who had no interest in ...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellVanNessNyTimes1943.jpg)

Quote
Operation CHAOS - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS
Operation CHAOS or Operation MHCHAOS was the code name (CIA cryptonym) of a United ... under Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) Richard Helms by chief of counter-intelligence James Jesus Angleton, and headed by Richard Ober.

From late August, 1944 until 1946, Tom Devine, Garry Coit, and 16 others were housemates in the Sigma Chi fraternity house on M.I.T. campus.

There were seven Warren Commissioner. The republican, Yale Skull n Bones representation among the seven of the WC, Kentucky
US Senator, John Sherman Cooper, employed Macomber on his Senate staff before Macomber was hired by CIA. Sen. Cooper's wife.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/McAdooLorraineRowanCooper.jpg)
Quote
Lorraine Cooper, 79, Leader In Washington Society, Dies - The ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1985/02/06/lorraine-cooper-79-leader-in-washington-society-dies/87bfe959-8e89-40ad-b03c-1e348a68bcde/?utm_term=.decce2c2be16
Feb 6, 1985 - Lorraine Rowan Cooper, 79, a personality of intelligence and ... Her marriages to Robert McAdoo and Thomas Shevlin Jr. ended in divorce.

Continued.....
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Tom Scully on May 09, 2019, 01:58:36 AM
Continued from last post, Post 2 of 2.

A 1966 dated document:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellAuntVeciana1966.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38109&relPageId=2&search=leslie_and%20cogswell
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellLeslieRiceGodoy1961.jpg)

A 1961 dated document.:
Quote
https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/charles-leslie-rice-jr-?41 (https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/charles-leslie-rice-jr-?41)
Les Rice died Feb. 11, 1997, in Red Bank, N.J.

...Following the war, Dean Mathey '12, Princeton's patron-saint trustee, benefactor, and Wall St. magician, recruited Les as his protege. Having learned much from Mathey at Empire Trust Co., Les set out on his own. He was president and CEO of Gulf States Land & Industries, Inc., working in Texas and living in New Jersey. He retired in 1980 and continued to be active in his Mandan Corp. in Red Bank and in a host of local charities....

Interlock: Art, Conspiracy, and the Shadow Worlds of Mark Lombardi (https://books.google.com/books?id=w1a1CgAAQBAJ&pg=PT112&lpg=PT112&dq=james+baker%27s+family.+charles+leslie+rice&source=bl&ots=TzIuzE1VO3&sig=ACfU3U2KTuIkoDng0HC_zVGcsPIR1ewuCw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ2NbVn43iAhXSl-AKHat-DAQQ6AEwD3oECA8QAQ#v=onepage&q=james%20baker's%20family.%20charles%20leslie%20rice&f=false)
By Patricia Goldstone
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellRiceMathey_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellRiceMathey_2of2.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/6968037613_3da089f463_b.jpg)

Of course, Brunie was best man in John McCloy's 1930 wedding and then McCloy's Fairfield County, CT next
door neighbor.

Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 09, 2019, 02:50:38 AM

Fascinating stuff, Mr. Scully.

(LOL)

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on May 09, 2019, 05:42:25 AM
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Obviously authorization of any plot to assassinate must come from the WH but the limitations placed upon Belin made it impossible to provide those specific when and who details. Given the mid-1959 timing of the "go-ahead" to discuss with Roselli, does anyone think the "Pres in waiting" Nixon was not all over this thing?

From Belin's Report (Rockefeller Commission 1975)

Bissell states that plans were developed to assassinate Lamumba and Sukarno. No assassination plans would be undertaken without authorization outside the Agency.
With respect to Castro??Therefore, the CIA, with appropriate authorization, undertook the development of an operation in support of Cuban exiles seeking to overthrow the Castro Government, the culmination of which became the Bay of Pigs disaster in April 1961.?

Also the CIA supported a late 1959 attempt against Castro via snipers. The Castro assassination attempts originated under the Eisenhower administration.

There are other comments in the Belin Report that back up the obvious.....any such action (ie. assassination) must have WH approval of some sort even allowing for plausible denial.

And this gives a clue as how there was a dual mechanism for dealing with issues, some under the larger NSC and others by a select smaller group.

"An examination of several of the major foreign policy problems that confronted the Eisenhower administration reveals that the NSC system was used to manage some and was virtually bypassed in others. When the question involved a policy debate between departments with strongly-held, contending positions, as it did in the case of the debate between the Departments of State and Defense in 1956(1957 over whether to introduce a more modern generation of weapons into Korea, the NSC process focused debate and produced an agreed decision after discussion of three draft policy papers.

Crisis situations, however, such as the Suez crisis of 1956, the off-shore island crises of 1955 and 1958, and the Lebanon crisis of 1958, were typically managed through telephone conversations between Eisenhower, Dulles, and other principal advisers, and through small meetings with the President in the White House, normally involving Dulles and other concerned advisers. Eisenhower sometimes used trusted NSC staffers to serve as an intermediary to gain information outside the chain of command as he did with Colonel Goodpaster during the Quemoy crisis in 1955."

Therefore the assassination discussions would have been via a select group and not the NSC or associated committees. This explains the comments of Dillon mentioned earlier. he was not "in the loop".

"C. Douglas Dillon, a member of this Commission, stated that while he served as Under Secretary of State from June 1959 until early January 1961, he heard no discussion of assassination attempts against anyone, except discussions which occurred in late July or early August of 1960 at a meeting at the Pentagon which covered  a great variety of matters in which "...a question regarding the possibility of an assassination attempt against Lumumba was briefly raised. The CIA representative indicated that the Agency did not undertake this sort of operation. This ended consideration of this subject." 
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Colin Crow on June 20, 2019, 10:18:49 PM
Some familiar characters involved in this one......

Gerald Ford White House Altered Rockefeller Commission Report in 1975; Removed Section on CIA Assassination Plots

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/intelligence/2016-02-29/gerald-ford-white-house-altered-rockefeller-commission-report (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/intelligence/2016-02-29/gerald-ford-white-house-altered-rockefeller-commission-report)
Title: Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
Post by: Tom Scully on June 30, 2019, 06:23:25 PM
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.....
Cogswell grew up one mile away from F Scott Fitzgerald's literary agent, Harold Ober. Cogswell attended Phillips Exeter at the same time as Ober's son, Richard, the future CIA agent close to Angleton. Cogswell first marriage, in 1945, was to the daughter of Cornelius Van Ness. a friend of Fitzgerald in Minnesota, early in his writing career.
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/23/books/the-other-sides-of-paradise.html
The Other Sides of Paradise
By BROOKE ALLEN JULY 23, 1995
...Two new books throw light on the well-known material by telling the life stories of supporting actors in the drama: the Fitzgeralds' daughter, Frances Scott, and the woman with whom Fitzgerald spent the last three years of his life, the Hollywood gossip columnist Sheilah Graham. Both books, oddly enough, are written by their subjects' children....

...DURING her teen-age years in the 1930's, Scottie was fortunate enough to have surrogate parents in the form of Fitzgerald's agent, Harold Ober, and his wife, Anne. She attended Vassar, wrote short stories for several magazines (including The New Yorker) at a precocious age, and in 1943 married Samuel Jackson Lanahan, a law student who came from a well-to-do Baltimore family. The couple moved to Washington, where Lanahan joined the Justice Department. There they became one of the best-and-brightest glamour couples of the heady 50's and 60's. ...
......

Quote
Suzy Says
DeMohrenschildt Mystery
By Suzy Knickerbocker
4/16/77 DMN

....De Mohrenschildt is constantly referred to as a mystery man and reputed member of Russian nobility.
He was neither.....In fact, this self-proclaimed society-hater, a geologist who insisted he was most comfortable amongst
intellectuals spent a lot of time hanging around the Racquet Club, the exclusive New York male
stronghold with Edward Hooker (the son of his stepaunt, the Countess Dimitri de Mohrenschildt)
and such sound social chaps as Staley Tregellas and Jake Cogswell.....
...According to family and friends DeMohrenschildt was undoubtedly a CIA stringer and periodically
made unexplained trips abroad. His Socially Registered confidant Jake Cogswell, another CIA
stringer, who established residence in Cuba before Castro. He barely made it out before the ax fell.

I have been searching for confirmation the Cogswells were familiar with the Obers for 5+ years. Earlier today, Eureka!
James (Jack aka Jake) K Cogswell III, Richard Ober, and Nick Katzenbach all simultaneously attended Phillips Exeter School.
Jackie was hired as a book editor by Tom Guinzberg after her return from Greece. Patsy Southgate, maid of owner in Nathan Ober wedding in image below, married Guinzberg Yale  roommate Peter Mathiessen who worked side by side with John Train and George Plimpton at Paris
Review in early 1950s.



Quote
https://www.theparisreview.org/letters-essays/6069/thomas-guinzburg-peter-matthiessen
Peter Matthiessen ISSUE 195, WINTER 2010
1926–2010

What great good luck for our nebulous and as yet unnamed Paris Review when Tom Guinzburg, all unsuspecting of the role he was to play, turned up in Paris in the spring of 1952, shortly after Bill Styron made his ­appearance. The president-to-be of The Viking Press, the eminent house founded by his father, Harold Guinzburg, Tom had served as managing editor of the Yale Daily News under Wm. Buckley (whose sister Jane was the main reason Tom had come to Paris) and as a senior-year roommate of the undersigned, who could confidently recommend his character, intelligence, and humor—a man, in short, whose sociability could be counted on (though not, it must be said, invariably; in one of his rare “surls,” he turned so dark of visage as to win the sobriquet “Black Tom”). With Bill and George, too, “Guinzo,” aka “Tombo,” was to become a lifelong friend. Board president from 2003 to 2006, he remained ever loyal to The Paris Review, which he served well for more than fifty years.

—PETER MATTHIESSEN

When Tom Guinzburg became president of The Viking Press in 1961, its editors and other staff were, of course, people his father had hired. But Tom rapidly put his own personal stamp on Viking. No books were signed up that he didn’t personally approve, no advances against earnings offered that he didn’t authorize, no publicity plans and marketing arrangements plotted without his knowledge. And he made the often humdrum procedures quite dashing, being dashing himself.

His big corner office had a rather opulent, slightly louche air that ­suited this big handsome man with his well-cut suits, boldly striped shirts, huge hands, and dazzling, rare smile. On a windowsill sat an enormous horned Viking helmet. A dartboard on one wall, to which he’d pin photos of agents and book reviewers who’d irritated him, was positioned so that he could take aim right from his desk.....

(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellGuestAtNathanOber1950Wed1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellGuestAtNathanOber1950Wed2of2.jpg)

George Ohrstrom was an usher in Peter Matthiessen's (of the Paris Review and the CIA) wedding, as was the sister-in-law of Richard Ober of CIA. Usher Thomas Guinzburg would later hire Jackie Onassis. He was Matthiessen's Yale roommate and presented as not being witty to Matthiessen's CIA affiliation, but Guinzburg's father was OSS minister of propaganda (OWI) (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17731&view=findpost&p=228078) and immediately after WWII led a US intelligence program intended to influence what would and would not be suitable subject matter for publication

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zVY3EmENmro/T4GpnHE-bII/AAAAAAAAAAg/yGlFBTGgm9Y/s638/OhrstromMatthiessen.jpg)

In 1937 Ohrstrom's father George was suspended from bond dealing and other financial brokerage activity by SEC on fraud accusations.
By 1943, Prescott Bush and others accomplished a messy rehab of Ohrstrom restoring his financial business license but not his reputation.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BushOhrstromVigorousDissent102943.jpg)

CAROLINE MORGAN I5 MARRIED HERE
Bride at S. James' of John DeWitt Macomber—Couple Attended by Twenty-two
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MacomberMorganWedding1956.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/CogswellAuntVeciana1966.jpg)