JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on April 27, 2019, 12:28:09 PM
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Here's an interesting 17-page HSCA document on the mysterious Tampa Fair Play For Cuba member, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, which wasn't released until 2017.
Page 11 is missing, but two footnotes (65 and 66) that were on it are listed in the appendix, so maybe some information can be gleaned from the 1977 CIA Task Force Report that footnote #66 refers to.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10147-10165.pdf
It's interesting to note that Tampa was the home of Fidel Castro's buddy, Santo Trafficante, and that Policarpo Lopez was classified 4-F by the U.S. Army in 1962, but not for epileptic seizures -- for poor English. (See footnote #49)
(If we're to believe his wife, the poor guy's seizures didn't begin until early 1963, but didn't prevent him from doing construction work in June...)
-- MWT ;)
Edit: His daughter, Lisbette Lundgren, told me today (7/27/19) in an email that he's a mean-spirited and violent man still today, that his family knew that he had lived in Tampa and "Keys," that he'd "been to Laredo, Mexico," that he had been to Communist meetings, that at one point he wanted to go fight in a war in Africa, that he was always very healthy and fit and has never taken medicine for epileptic seizures or anything else.
She also says he often claimed that he was very good at faking epileptic seizures because he didn't want to be drafted into the military, and that he spoke about being "the only passenger on a cargo plane" once, but that he didn't elaborate on the subject.
She says before they left Cuba in 1990 to come to the U.S., three Cuban Intelligence men in black suits came to their apartment to warn them that if he returned to the U.S. he'd be arrested by the U.S. authorities in connection with the JFK assassination.
"He has always said he did not do it but he was always a man who did not talk about anything of his past, not even his childhood. We didn’t even know he had taken his mother, my grandmother’s US citizenship, when we were little. My mom found documents by chance one day."
"He is to the day a very mean and violent man so it would not surprise me if he did but he has never said. I mentioned [in an earlier email] that he said he was the only one in the cargo plane but don’t know why he told us."
And from one of her posts on this thread earlier today:
"He resides in Miami now. He said he left to Havana [from Mexico City?] illegally in a 'cargo plane.'"
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He resides in Miami now. He said he left to Havana illegally in a "cargo plane." Don't know how to post his latest photo.
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He resides in Miami now. He said he left to Havana illegally in a "cargo plane." Don't know how to post his latest photo.
Fascinating stuff, Lisbette!
I wonder if he knows ...
(It'll come to me in a minute or two.)
-- MWT ;)
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Celso Hernandez!
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He is my father
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He is my father
Which one?
-- MWT ;)
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He is my father. He has always been a very mean, aggressive man and a big time communist. Again, he told us how he faked the attacks by holding saliva in his mouth. He wanted to avoid being drafted. He also made sure to say he was the only one in the cargo plane and that is interesting to me because he said it without being asked. Would like to post a picture of him but don’t know how.
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Gilberto Policarpo Lopez.
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Ileana Ros-Lehtinen Wrote a book talking about him and tried to sue it but was not successful.
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He, Gilberto, tried to sue Ileana Ros-Lehtinen because of her book
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Lisbette,
Thanks for the info!
Question: Are there any photos of him from, say, before 1970 that you can share with us?
Thanks,
-- Tom Graves (aka "Mudd Wrassler Tommy")
;)
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Lisbette,
Is this him in the black-and-white photo that was allegedly taken in the Mexico City airport shortly after the assassination of JFK?
(https://gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/gpl1.jpg)
Thanks.
-- MWT ;)
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Yes. That is him in the black and white picture.
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I just wanted to share the little I know. It’s all interesting.
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Yes. That is him in the black and white picture.
Lisbette,
Thanks for confirming that for us.
Since it's impossible to make out much of his facial features in that photo, are there any better ones you can share with us?
(Thanks)
-- MWT ;)
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I do have pictures of him. I’ll have to look for them. I don’t talk to him anymore. I don’t know how to past the pictures though.
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I do have pictures of him. I’ll have to look for them. I don’t talk to him anymore. I don’t know how to post the pictures though.
Lisbette,
Being a very old man, I'm not very good at that stuff, either.
I think you'd have to take them to some place that can "scan" them onto a thumb drive/flash drive for you, and then maybe someone could help you upload them to this forum by using it and a laptop or desktop computer.
I don't know.
Michael Clark or one of the other members could probably tell you.
Edit: Or maybe take photos of them with your android/iPhone, and then upload them to the forum from it?
IDK
-- MWT ;)
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I have them in my phone. But don’t know how to past them in the forum.
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I have them in my phone. But don’t know how to past them in the forum.
Lisbette,
Just out of curiosity, how recent are they?
(The older they are, the better, imho.)
-- MWT ;)
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Lisbette,
Maybe this will help.
(It's the first "thread" in the "Photographic Film Video & Audio Discussion & Debate" section of this forum.)
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,299.0.html
-- MWT ;)
PS You might even consider shooting a private message to Robin Unger and asking him for some help ...
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I have pictures of him from the 60’s 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and a few days ago
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How can I add a photo using my apple phone?
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How can I add a photo using my apple phone?
Lisbette,
Do you know how to send a "private message" to another member (like Robin Unger, or Duncan MacRae, or even computer-guy Michael Clark) here?
-- MWT ;)
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If you want to, just go to their individual "profile page" (by clicking on their name), and then click on "Send PM," and send them a message ...
-- MWT ;)
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If you want to, just go to their individual "profile page" (by clicking on their name), and then click on "Send PM," and send them a message ...
-- MWT ;)
I'll send you a PM with my new e-mail address.
Maybe we can do it by your sending them to me as an e-mail attachment, if that's okay with you.
-- Tom ;)
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I emailed Tom
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I emailed Tom
K
-- Tom
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Got 'em!
Great photos.
(Please e-mail me more, if you can.)
It'll be interesting to see if he can be spotted in Dealey Plaza.
Imho, he looks sufficiently similar to Oswald as to have been plausibly mistaken for Oswald by Sheriff's Detective Roger Craig ...
Could he whistle loudly, by any chance?
Not every macho guy can, you know. For example I couldn't, even when I still had teeth. LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Not only he whistles loud but he used to call as by whistling. It meant it was time to stop playing and go home.
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Starting from near the top of page 203 in Mark Riebling's 1994 book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA.
To make it easier for you to find in the online version (link, below), it's several pages into Chapter Ten, Sinister Implications)
https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity/page/n381
The FBI similarly failed to follow up on information received by CIA headquarters from its Mexico City Station on December 3, 1963, about the suspicious activities of Gilberto [Policarpo] Lopez, a Cuban-American who left the U.S. for Cuba the day after the assassination. His itinerary was confirmed by several sources, including one who reported hearing, according to a March 20, 1964 memo to the director of CIA from Mexico Station, "that Gilberto Lopez, U.S. citizen, was involved in President Kennedy's assassination." The Lopez case was passed to the FBI, but, as a later CIA memo tersely reported, "FBI furnished no further info on subject." Grilled years later by a Senate committee, the FBI agents handling the Oswald investigation could not account for their failure to follow up on the Lopez lead.
Liason [between CIA and FBI] did improve after Angleton's CI [counter intelligence] Staff took over CIA's assassination probe in early 1964. The move was ordered by Helms, he later said, because the CI Staff "had over the years the responsibility for carrying on liaison with FBI, [and] was in a better position and used to dealing with the Bureau." That was only the official reason for the shift, however. Unofficially, Helms wanted to remove the Agency's Soviet Division, which Angleton believed was penetrated by the KGB, from any direct role in investigating possible KGB complicity in the president's death. ...
(continued ...)
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(continuing, after leaving out about one page, from near the top page 205 in the book...)
Hoover was soothed when [CIA director John] McCone agreed the main responsibility for the investigation fell on the Bureau. If the Bureau said there was no foreign plot, the CIA would play along -- especially since that was the answer the White House wanted publicized.
While the public record was being censored, however, Angleton was considering more carefully, and secretly, the specter of a possible KGB plot. Angleton was bothered by [KGB defector Anatoliy] Golitsyn's ominous [December] 1961warning about the KGB's planning to kill "a Western political leader," by the mystery of Oswald's travels in the USSR, and by other unresolved questions. CIA had heard, for example, that [KGB officer Valiery] Kostikov [believed at that time by FBI and CIA to be in charge of assassinations in the Western Hemisphere] had planned in advance to leave Mexico on November 22, and that a Cubana Airlines flight to Havana was delayed for six hours on the tarmac in Mexico City on the night of the assassination, awaiting an unidentified passenger [Miguel Casas Saez?].
The man had finally arrived at the airport in a twin-engine aircraft, then failed to go through Customs, where he would have had to identify himself by displaying a passport. The Cubana plane took off and the mysterious passenger rode in the cockpit to Havana, precluding any identification by the passengers. Mexican surveillance soon established that Kostikov had remained in Mexico City, but Angleton still wondered who the passenger had been, why he flew to Cuba on the day the president died, and why he had taken such pains to conceal his identity.
Similar questions swirled around Gilberto [Policarpo] Lopez, the Cuban-American who, by some reports to CIA, had been involved in Kennedy's death, and whose actions the FBI inexplicably failed to probe. Lopez had lived in Tampa, which was [rumoured Castro agent] Santo Trafficante's base of operations, and he had visited Cuba for several weeks during May 1962, precisely when Trafficante had claimed to be sending his agents into Cuba to poison Castro.
(continued ...)
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(... continued from the top of page 206 in the book)
Lopez was active in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, whose leaflets Oswald had distributed, and his wife and others characterized Lopez as pro-Castro. It was also known that Lopez had a brother in the Cuban military who was studying in the Soviet Union. On November 17, 1963, the day President Kennedy's Dallas limousine route was announced, Lopez was at a get-together of the Tampa Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, where color slides of Cuba were shown. CIA knew from several informants that Lopez had been at the residence for some time, waiting for an important telephone call -- the "go ahead order" for him to leave the United States. Lopez obtained a Mexican tourist card at the Honorary Consulate of Mexico in Tampa on November 20. Then he had departed for Texas. What he did there was not known. At twelve noon on the day after the assassination, "Lopez entered Mexico on foot from Laredo, Texas ... and proceeded by bus to Mexico [City,] where he entered the Cuban Embassy. On 27 Nov he left Embassy for Cuba on Cubana flight 465 and was the only passenger allowed on the plane."
Thereafter, Lopez was reportedly not working in Cuba, but spent most of his time playing dominoes -- a strange and luxurious treatment, indeed, for a purported dissident who had once defected to Cuba's main enemy.
https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity/page/n381
-- MWT ;)
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Here's a November 1989 article from the evil, evil, evil Washington Post.
(sarcasm)
Is any of it true?
All of it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1989/11/19/did-cuba-murder-jfk/3f511a12-ec16-4cad-b3e8-48ad4d8c858b/?utm_term=.7cbbff18664e
-- MWT ;)
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Here's an interesting 17-page HSCA document on the mysterious Tampa (home of Fidel Castro's buddy, Santo Trafficante) FPCC member Gilberto Policarpo Lopez ...
... which wasn't released until 2017.
Hmmm
Page 11 is missing, but two footnotes (65 and 66) that were on it are listed in the appendix, so maybe some information can be gleaned from the 1977 CIA Task Force Report that fn #66 refers to ...
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10147-10165.pdf
Fwiw, it's interesting that Policarpo Lopez was classified 4-F by the U.S. Army in 1962, but not for epileptic seizures -- for poor English. (See footnote #49)
(If we're to believe his wife, the poor guy's seizures didn't begin until early 1963, but didn't prevent him from doing construction work in June...)
-- MWT ;)
Edit: His daughter told me today (7/27/19) in an email that he is a very mean and violent man still today, that his family knew that he had lived in Tampa and "Keys," that he'd "been to Laredo, Mexico," that he had been to Communist meetings, that at one point he wanted to go fight in a war in Africa, that he was always very healthy and fit and into martial arts, and has never taken medicine for epileptic seizures or anything else.
She also says he often claimed that he was very good at faking epileptic seizures because he didn't want to be drafted into the military, and that he somewhat mysteriously spoke about being "the only passenger on the cargo plane."
She says before they left Cuba to come to the U.S., "three men in black" came to their apartment to warn them that if he returned to the U.S. he'd be arrested by the U.S. authorities in connection with the JFK assassination, and that they almost were not permitted to leave the airport.
-- MWT ;)
PS Also, that even though he didn't talk about his younger days, he did say at least once that "he didn't do it".
"He has always said he did not do it but he was always a man who did not talk about anything of his past, not even his childhood. We didn’t even know he had taken his mother, my grandmother’s US citizenship, when we were little. My mom found documents by chance one day."
"He is to the day a very mean and violent man so it would not surprise me if he did but he has never said. I mentioned he said he was the only one in the cargo plane but don’t know why he told us."
And from one of her posts on this thread earlier today:
"He resides in Miami now. He said he left to Havana [from Mexico City?] illegally in a 'cargo plane.'"
Extensively expanded, and bumped.
-- MWT ;)
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Okay.
I tried.
I don't know how to it.
You wanna walk me through it?
Ball's in your court, Mr. Jeff Stanton.
If not Mr. Jeff Stanton, then ... anybody?
GASP ...... MR. MICHAEL CLARK?
Duncan?
Robin Unger?
I really want to get these four photos uploaded to the forum, but I don't know how to do it ...
-- MWT ;)
PS But if you guys don't want to see them, I totally understand.
After all, he doesn't look THAT much like Lee Harvey Oswald.
What do you think?
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Okay.
I tried.
I don't know how to it.
You wanna walk me through it?
Ball's in your court, Mr. Jeff Stanton.
If not Mr. Jeff Stanton, then ... anybody?
GASP ...... MR. MICHAEL CLARK?
Duncan?
Robin Unger?
I really want to get these four photos uploaded to the forum, but I don't know how to do it ...
-- MWT ;)
PS But if you guys don't want to see them, I totally understand.
After all, he doesn't look THAT much like Lee Harvey Oswald.
What do you think?
I’ll help you out Thomas. What I can do is load the photos and send you links. You would then use the links with the format.
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Hi Thomas, I was very interested to read the posts by Lisbette Lundgren, fascinating stuff, I hope she keeps posting. She certainly sounds genuine and I have absolutely no real reason to doubt her integrity but like me, you've been on these forums a long time so I know you'll understand that I have to ask what you've done to check out her bona fides. No offence to Ms Lundgren intended.
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Hi Denis. I’m not offended. I can only say I found this forum by chance. Any time I google my dad’s name, to see if he is alive, because I cut ties with him, all I see if JFK stuff. I read what was being posted and decided to share the little I know.
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Hi Denis. I’m not offended. I can only say I found this forum by chance. Any time I google my dad’s name, to see if he is alive, because I cut ties with him, all I see if JFK stuff. I read what was being posted and decided to share the little I know.
Hi Lisbette, I'm very glad you found us and I'm genuinely grateful that you're sharing your insights with us. I'm afraid age and bad experiences on these forums have made me extremely careful and very cynical. I'm sure you can understand and appreciate that. :) Lisbette, you wrote "to see if he is alive, because I cut ties with him" and yet in an earlier post you said you had photos of your father from just a few days ago..I'm a little confused.
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Denis,
I’m his youngest daughter. I’m trying to see how to post a few pics I have. I am sharing the little I know mostly to share he still alive. Maybe someone can interview him. He has always said he didn’t do it. I don’t know if he did or not or if he was just unlucky. But aside of that I know he is and has always been a communist and was a mean father. Also a very quiet man. I barely knew about his life because he didn’t share much. We grew up not knowing he was a US citizen. What I heard was conversations from family members and what I experienced I.e., he and all his brothers were very mean angry people and very involved in military stuff.
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Denis,
I’m his youngest daughter. I’m trying to see how to post a few pics I have. I am sharing the little I know mostly to share he still alive. Maybe someone can interview him. He has always said he didn’t do it. I don’t know if he did or not or if he was just unlucky. But aside of that I know he is and has always been a communist and was a mean father. Also a very quiet man. I barely knew about his life because he didn’t share much. We grew up not knowing he was a US citizen. What I heard was conversations from family members and what I experienced I.e., he and all his brothers were very mean angry people and very involved in military stuff.
Lisbette, I'm sure there's many here who would just love to interview your father, I know Thomas certainly would. Do you think he may be up for joining the forum and answering a few questions, very informally and in a polite friendly manner of course?
PS Looking forward to those pics. Thank you.
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I emailed some to Tom. I can’t figure out how to post them here in the forum, using my phone. I don’t know if he would even agree to talking. I have not talked to him since my mother passed away in 2015. I truly had enough of him. He is old and Not very healthy. I can’t imagine it be hard to find him but he is not pleasant.
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He may die and take all the unanswered questions with him.
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I’ll help you out Thomas. What I can do is load the photos and send you links. You would then use the links with the format.
Michael,
Thanks for offering to help.
Please bear a couple of things in mind:
1) I'll be doing this from my small android.
2) Unlike you, I'm not real good with computer terminology and computer procedures
3) In the interest of my determination to voluntarilly honor her privacy, I'm not willing to let her email address become known to you or anyone else at this forum (unless she says otherwise, of course) ...
Well, I may be wrong, but isn't #3, above, a big hurdle, logistics-wise?
.....
Hypothetical question: If you only had access to your small Samsung android today,
... and if she'd sent you, not me, the four photos, ...
... and if she had sent them to your gmail address...
... and you wanted to upload them to a particular thread at the world-famous JFK Assassination Forum website ...
How would you begin?
Thanks,
-- Tom
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Michael,
Thanks for offering to help.
Please bear a couple of things in mind:
1) I'll be doing this from my small android.
2) Unlike you, I'm not real good with computer terminology and computer procedures
3) In the interest of my determination to voluntarilly honor her privacy, I'm not willing to let her email address become known to you or anyone else at this forum (unless she says otherwise, of course) ...
Well, I may be wrong, but isn't #3, above, a big hurdle, logistics-wise?
.....
Hypothetical question: If you only had access to your small Samsung android today,
... and if she'd sent you, not me, the four photos, ...
... and if she had sent them to your gmail address...
... and you wanted to upload them to a particular thread at the world-famous JFK Assassination Forum website ...
How would you begin?
Thanks,
-- Tom
I would be using an iPhone but your process, I am sure, would be quite similar.
Keep in mind that a “tap”, as described below, on your phone, may be a long touch, or double tap, or something like that.
-tap the photo in the email so it opens
-tap the photo and save it to your photos
-go to your photo library
-find the photo
-open the photo
-tap the photo such that you get some options
-one option should be a square with an up arrow
-tap that square with the up arrow
-you should see options, like email, messaging etc
-select email
-that will open a new email with the photo attached
-enter my email addy, and send it
I’ll share my email addy when you think you are all set, and have no more questions.
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Michael,
Sorry to cover your new post (I haven't read it yet but I can see the warning notice in red), but wouldn't it be much easier if you, having promised to honour and protect her privacy, were to be sent, by her, the four photos?
-- Tom
Edit: Or maybe even if the four photos were forwarded to you, by me, with her permission?
If I'm even capable of doing that, that is? (LOL)
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Michael,
Sorry to cover your new post (I haven't read it yet but I can see the warning notice in red), but wouldn't it be much easier if you, having promised to honour and protect her privacy, were to be sent, by her, the four photos?
-- Tom
Edit: Or maybe even if said four photos were forwarded to you, by me, with her permission?
If I'm even capable of doing that, that is? (LOL)
edited and bumped
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I would be using an iPhone but your process, I am sure, would be quite similar.
Keep in mind that a “tap”, as described below, on your phone, may be a long touch, or double tap, or something like that.
-tap the photo in the email so it opens
-tap the photo and save it to your photos
-go to your photo library
-find the photo
-open the photo
-tap the photo such that you get some options
-one option should be a square with an up arrow
-tap that square with the up arrow
-you should see options, like email, messaging etc
-select email
-that will open a new email with the photo attached
-enter my email addy, and send it
I’ll share my email addy when you think you are all set, and have no more questions.
I misread your question. I gave instructions on how to send my the pic without forwarding the email.
A brief answer to your actual question, but which is not an option for you unless you create a photo bucket account or the like, or create a site on which you can host the photo, is that I would load the photo to a site (photo bucket or other site), then open the photo from that site, tap and save the link; then, on the world famous JFK Assassination forum I would create a post and use the (http://link-that-I-saved) tags, surrounding my link, and post my reply.
In the case that you sent me the the photo, I would load it to the hosting site and send a link back to you, which you could use to post on said world-famous JFK Assassination forum.
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Michael,
Sorry to cover your new post (I haven't read it yet but I can see the warning notice in red), but wouldn't it be much easier if you, having promised to honour and protect her privacy, were to be sent, by her, the four photos?
-- Tom
Edit: Or maybe even if the four photos were forwarded to you, by me, with her permission?
If I'm even capable of doing that, that is? (LOL)
I don’t see a red warning notice, but I am curious what it is.
Yes, that would be easier.
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I misread your question. I gave instructions on how to send my the pic without forwarding the email.
A brief answer to your actual question, but which is not an option for you unless you create a photo bucket account or the like, or create a site on which you can host the photo, is that I would load the photo to a site (photo bucket or other site), then open the photo from that site, tap and save the link; then, on the world famous JFK Assassination forum I would create a post and use the (http://link-that-I-saved) tags, surrounding my link, and post my reply.
In the case that you sent me the the photo, I would load it to the hosting site and send a link back to you, which you could use to post on said world-famous JFK Assassination forum.
Michael,
Are you saying that, pending 1) your promising to honour her privacy, and 2) her giving me permission to do so, I can simply forward to you the email (with photo attachments, of course) she sent me yesterday?
If I'm capable of doing that, that is?
And that then you could upload said photos to the forum (sans insightful "comments" or "guidelines") and do so without revealing her email address to the whole wide world?
-- Tom
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I don’t see a red warning notice, but I am curious what it is.
Yes, that would be easier.
Michael,
Haven't you ever seen a red (or pinkish) warning notice (when you've finished composing a post on this forum, and you've just now clicked on the "post" button or whatever it's called to post said post), but some other member on that same thread has posted a new post while you were still composing your post, and it basically gives you the option to go ahead and post your post before you've read the other guy's intervening post, or to take a break from the torrid, torrid action and actually go and read the other guy's post, first? Before you actually post your new post, that is?
Happens to me quite often.
Regardless, bearing in mind that Lisbette hasn't quite yet given me permission to forward her email to you (at your email address, or to your message thingy, here?), do you promise to abide by the conditions I set out for you above -- i.e., protecting her privacy and canning any insightful / incitefull comments you might be tempted to make with the initial posting, by you, of the photos on this forum?
If and when, that is, she gives me said permission?
-- Tom
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Michael,
Haven't you ever seen a red (or pinkish) warning notice (when you've finished composing a post on this forum, and you've just now clicked on the "post" button or whatever it's called to post said post), but some other member on that same thread has posted a new post while you were still composing your post, and it basically gives you the option to go ahead and post your post before you've read the other guy's intervening post, or to take a break from the torrid, torrid action and actually go and read the other guy's post, first? Before you actually post your new post, that is?
Happens to me quite often.
Regardless, bearing in mind that Lisbette hasn't given me permission to forward her email to you (at your email address, or to your message thingy, here?), yet, do you promise to abide by the conditions I set out for you above -- protecting her privacy and canning any insightful / incitefull comments you might be tempted to made with the posting, by you, of the photos on this, [addendum: or any other forum], if and when she gives me said permission?
-- Tom
Thomas, thanks for the explanation on the red warning. It’s something I never see.
Regarding the photos:
I would like to remove myself from the privacy chain as much as possible. It should be pretty easy for me to avoid ever having her email address and actually posting the images on the forum.
Save the photo to your phone
Tap and send it to me
I send a link back to you
You post the link in your post
I will remove the photo from the hosting platform at yours or her request, at any time.
That will disable the link.
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https://support.google.com/mail/answer/30719?co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid&hl=en
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Michael,
You wrote:
"Save the photo [sic] to your phone. Tap and send it to me [where, Michael?]. I send a link back to you. You post the link in your post. I will remove the photo from the hosting platform at yours or her request, at any time. That will disable the link."
1) You're a (sorry, Mike) computer nerd who's very familiar with iPhone procedures, but evidently not so familiar with android procedures,
2) I ain't got an iPhone, I got a stinking little android,
3) I'm almost 70 years old, and
4) I don't really know how to use the little MoFo, obviously
5) I understand about 20% of what you're telling me to do, and, most importantly ...
6) The Agency told me to elaborate on this evil, evil, evil Deep State ruse for as long as possible, including ... gasp ... mastering photoshopping, next!
Got Any Other Ideas?
Question: If Lisbette were willing to send you those photos as email attachments to your forum private message thingy ... would that work?
-- MWT Walk:
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Here's a short/brief summary of the allegations/claims made about Lopez and any alleged involvement in the assassination. It's from Gus Russo's book "Live by the Sword." It begins below with "next day at noon" with "next day" being the day after the assassination. The border between the US and Mexico had been closed right after JFK's assassination.
Russo makes several claims here that I don't think are warranted. I see no connection between Lopez, the Tampa branch of the FPCC, and Oswald. Where is it?
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c6d0/v3owsm4wvk4jgsazg.jpg)
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Michael,
I just now noticed your googlehelplinkthingy.
Thanks.
Maybe I'll do that later today, ... or tomorrow ...
If I do, will you promise to post the photos on the forum with no "He don't look like that guy in the CIA doc photo!," or "He don't look like Oswald!", or [fill in the blank] helpful, guiding comments / instructions/ suggestions?
In other words, that you'll just post the frickin' photos, and let other members and guests figure them out for themselves?
-- Tom. Walk:
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Here's a short/brief summary of the allegations/claims made about Lopez and any alleged involvement in the assassination. It's from Gus Russo's book "Live by the Sword." It begins below with "next day at noon" with "next day" being the day after the assassination. The border between the US and Mexico had been closed right after JFK's assassination.
Russo makes several claims here that I don't think are warranted. I see no connection between Lopez, the Tampa branch of the FPCC, and Oswald. Where is it?
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c6d0/v3owsm4wvk4jgsazg.jpg)
Steve M. Galbraith,
Which claims or allegations in the page you posted do you believe are unwarranted by the author?
Can you be specific?
-- MWT ;)
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It's interesting that a thread (currently on the front page at that other forum) titled List Of Nefarious Characters Possibly Present In Dallas on 11/22/1963, lists oodles and gobs of evil, evil, evil Deep State CIA-types, but nary a mention is made of Gilberto Policarpo Lopez or Miguel Casas Saez, as far as I can see.
Hmm
Did I miss something?
Or is this further confirmation that we've been brainwashed by 98 years of Cheka "active measures," artfully interwoven for the last 60 years with "KGB-Within-The KGB", Second Chief Directorate Dept. 14 "strategic deceptions"?
D'oh
-- MWT ;)
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Gilberto Policarpo Lopez
This image was sent to me via email by his youngest daughter, Lisbette Lundgren, who is a member of this forum.
She has sent me a few other photos showing him as an older man, but has asked me to hold off on posting them until he has passed away.
Edit: Lisbette believes that this is his passport photo, and that it was in the 1960s ...
(https://i.imgur.com/4EOOml1.jpg)
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Steve M. Galbraith,
Which claims or allegations in the page you posted do you believe are unwarranted by the author?
Can you be specific?
-- MWT ;)
It's been a couple of hours now, and all I hear are crickets ...
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It's been a couple of hours now, and all I hear are crickets ...
Thomas, I'm sure Steve will get back to you with his concerns when ready. Meanwhile, here's a couple of mine; Russo claims Lopez and Oswald had links "to the same branch of the FPCC" that's blatantly incorrect, Lopez had no known link to the New Orleans branch and Oswald had no known link to the Tampa branch, so how do they both have links to the same branch? Also, in the same paragraph, Russo claims Oswald's first contact with pro-Castro Cubans was in Los Angeles, Russo nor anyone else has enough information on Oswald's movements to make that claim. Seems to me Russo at best, can be criticized for exaggerating, at worst for writing outright lies.
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Dear Denis,
I don't claim to speak for Gus Russo, nor Daffy Duck, for that matter.
I can imagine, though, that by "Oswald's connection to the Tampa Chapter," Russo was referring to the fact that Oswald had communicated with V.T. Lee, the founder of said chapter.
What year did Oswald visit the Cuban Consulate in L.A., Denis? 1959, or so?
Do you think he started rubbing elbows with Castroites prior to that?
Did I post the page from Live By the Sword, here, Denis?
I hope I'm not obligated to support everything Russo says in the book.
For example, he believes Oswald went to Mexico City!
Do you think Russo "exaggerated or blatantly lied" about everything?
If so, for what purpose?
Are there some kernels of truth in the book, even for very highly knowledgeable and discerning people like you?
LOL
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Dear Denis,
I don't claim to speak for Gus Russo, nor Daffy Duck, for that matter.
I would imagine, though, that by "Oswald's connection to the Tampa Chapter," he was referring to the fact that Oswald had communicated with V.T. Lee, the founder of said chapter.
What year did Oswald visit the Cuban Consulate in L.A.?
Do you think he started rubbing elbows with Castroites prior to that?
-- MWT ;)
Did I post the page from Live By the Sword, here?
Am I obligated to try to support everything he says in the book?
LOL
No one said you were "obligated" to do anything so don't start getting stroppy. You asked what the concerns were on the Russo page posted so I told you. OK. Got it?
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You asked what the concerns were on the Russo page posted so I told you.
Dear Denis,
Was V. T. Lee the founder of the Tampa Chapter? Did Lee Harvey Oswald correspond with V. T. Lee?
When did Oswald start visiting the Cuban Consulate in Los Angeles? Wasn't it in 1959?
Did Oswald have much of an opportunity to rub elbows with Castroites before that?
While only sixteen in New Orleans, perhaps?
What's your take on the subject of this thread, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez?
Patsied by the CIA?
Victim of circumstances?
A violence-prone, hard-core Commie (according to Lisbette) who had the distinct penchant of being in the wrong place at the wrong time before, during, and after the assassination?
Immediately after the assassination, he stays for three days in the Mexico City Cuban embassy, and then ... he's the only passenger on a largish plane to Havana?
What's up with that?
Bragged about being able to fake epileptic seizures, according to his daughter, Lisbette.
Hmm
Healthy and fit, took no medicines, according to Lisbette. Epileptic seizures? Ex wife said he was working construction just fine.
Did he sufficiently resemble Oswald to plausibly fool Sheriff's Detective Roger Craig, unintentionally or otherwise?
Told his relatives he was the only passenger on the plane, leaving them mystified as to what, exactly, he was talking about. Interesting "CIA" photo of him wearing shades inside the M.C. airport, yes?
According to his daughter, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez could whistle real loud-like, and did it quite often. Could he have been the "Oswald" that Sheriff Detective Craig saw running down the grass, whistling for the "getaway car"?
(Will anyone ask Marina if her first hubby could whistle like that?)
Lisbette says he was such a gung-ho Commie, he wanted to fight for Castro in Africa!
From the "Before I Forget Department": Lisbette wants everyone to know that her father, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, has always denied doing it.
Factoid: Lisbette says Gilberto's oldest brother (Rafael?) served as a Cuban military attache in the USSR -- she remembers seeing photos to that effect -- and she knows that Gilberto, himself, was in East Germany at some point.
Believe it or not, I could on a bit more ...
But to bring closure, Russo is probably spot on, at least on that one page of his that you "critiqued," Denis.
IMHO
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As I stated: "I see no connection between Lopez, the Tampa branch of the FPCC, and Oswald. Where is it?"
Oswald had no contacts, as far as I've seen, with the Tampa branch/delegation of the FPCC. He did correspond with Lee but that is not connecting him (Oswald) to the Tampa branch.
And how is Lopez visiting Tampa connecting him (Lopez) to the Tampa branch? He visited the city. Nowhere does Russo state or provide evidence that Lopez met Lee.
Russo provides no evidence that Oswald was connected to the Tampa branch; no evidence that Lopez was connected to the Tampa branch; and no evidence that Oswald and Lopez knew each other through that branch (or anything else).
And I'll conclude that if Lopez was somehow involved that it completely blows out of the water your claims that Khrushchev and the KGB were behind the assassination.
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Thomas, I'm sure Steve will get back to you with his concerns when ready. Meanwhile, here's a couple of mine; Russo claims Lopez and Oswald had links "to the same branch of the FPCC" that's blatantly incorrect, Lopez had no known link to the New Orleans branch and Oswald had no known link to the Tampa branch, so how do they both have links to the same branch? Also, in the same paragraph, Russo claims Oswald's first contact with pro-Castro Cubans was in Los Angeles, Russo nor anyone else has enough information on Oswald's movements to make that claim. Seems to me Russo at best, can be criticized for exaggerating, at worst for writing outright lies.
Denis: As you stated, Oswald formed his own New Orleans branch/delegation/chapter of the FPCC (it had one member: himself). He had no contacts with the Tampa chapter. He did correspond with Lee when Lee was head at that time of the national FPCC. Lee had been the former head of the Tampa chapter but from what I've read he had left it in 1962. Lee told him not to form a NO chapter since the conditions weren't good. Oswald ignored him.
Russo presents no evidence that Lopez had contacts with the Tampa branch of the FPCC or with Lee. He cites Lopez visiting Tampa but that is all. And his Oswald connection to the Tampa branch/chapter is with Lee. That's a connection with Lee not the chapter.
So, as you point out: where's the connection between Lopez and Oswald through the Tampa chapter? There isn't any.
And to the Cuban matter: Oswald's fellow Marine Nelson Delgado suggested something along these lines. He said he and Oswald were admirers of Castro and wanted to go to Cuban to help the revolution. But once Castro attained power and started imposing his dictatorship that he soured on Castro. However, according to Delgado Oswald continued to support Castro.
Here's his account of Oswald meeting Cuban embassy people:
Mr. DELGADO - ....[H]e kept on asking me about how about--how he could go about helping the Castro government. I didn't know what to tell him, so I told him the best thing that I know was to get in touch with a Cuban Embassy, you know. But at that time that I told him this we were on friendly terms with Cuba, you know, so this wasn't no subversive or malintent, you know. I didn't know what to answer him. I told him go see them.
After a while he told me he was in contact with them.
Mr. LIEBELER - With the Cuban Embassy?
Mr. DELGADO - Right. And I took it to be just a---one of his, you know, lies, you know, saying he was in contact with them, until one time I had the opportunity to go into his room, I was looking for--I was going out for the weekend, I needed a tie, he lent me the tie, and I seen this envelope in his footlocker, wall-locker, and it was addressed to him, and they had an official seal on it, and as far as I could recollect that was mail from Los Angeles, and he was telling me there was a Cuban Consul. And just after he started receiving these letters--you see, he would never go out, he'd stay near the post all the time. He always had money. That's why.
V.T. Lee's testimony is here: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lee_v1.htm
Delgado's is here:
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If Lopez was somehow involved that it completely blows out of the water your claims that Khrushchev and the KGB were behind the assassination.
Dear Steve M.,
Not sure that it matters to you, but I usually say Khrushchev and/or Castro, or the KGB and/or the DGI.
Regardless, please expound on your ludicrous ... pronouncement.
(You do realize, don't you, that the KGB worked "hand in glove" with the DGI?)
-- MWT ;)
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Ileana Ros-Lehtinen wrote a book talking about him and he tried to sue it, but was not successful.
Lisbette,
That's very interesting.
I'll have to try to find her book, now.
Have you read it?
-- Tom
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It's been a couple of hours now, and all I hear are crickets ...
I'd get used to that sound if I was you. I can't imagine any member here bothering to discuss anything with you ever again. You're too rude and arrogant. Mr Graves, you have the social skills of a pig. No reply required.
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I'd get used to that sound (of crickets) if I was you. I can't imagine any member here bothering to discuss anything with you ever again. You're too rude and arrogant. Mr Graves, you have the social skills of a pig. No reply required.
Denis,
Thank you for setting me straight (and for bumping this thread).
-- MWT ;)
PS By the way, which charm school did you graduate from?
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The difference between Tom Graves's Russian theory and the State Secret theory is this. SS is very close to home. In other words, we can track what exactly happened to Oswald from the time he false defected to Russia, all the way to 11/24 when he was murdered.
In addition, there are too many coincidences in Oswald's narrative for it to just be a run of the mill guy going on with his life and leading to what happens to him.
Meanwhile, Tom Graves never - EVER - rebuts SS and the reason for that is this - he can't. How can you rebut something when it's actually documented the way it is in SS and elsewhere?
Tom Graves, when you tell him that his Russia theory holds no water, falls back on his usual tropes. Did you read Bagley's book? Did you know Simpich agreed with me? Did you know Newman admitted something or other to me?
What Tom Graves does not understand is this - just because there was come collateral incident that took place, he lumps that together and uses it as "See? I'm right." It's not true. As an example, suppose on opposite ends of the street a Mom gives her kid candy and then on the other end a guy keels over and dies. In the center of this street is a tree. Just because that tree was there does NOT mean it had an impact on either of the events at opposite ends.
Another huge issue with Graves is he's highly biased in this case. He hates Russia, hates people who support the JFK case being an inside job. This is not xxxx stirring either - he actually admitted this on another thread in this forum. So in Tom's mind, his bias clouds his thought process with the JFK case. It's like the cop who hates prostitutes but has to investigate their murder grudgingly and with disdain. That prostitute is not going to get a fair shake.
I've read and seen plenty of true crime events to know that when an investigator comes in and for whatever reason doesn't "like" the victim, they're not going to get a fair investigation. The same with Tom Graves and this case. It's just gotta be Russia. I have even seen him lump Putin in here, not because Putin was involved [he was 10 years old in 1963], but because of the Russian vitriole.
State Secret is the closest thing we'll ever have to totally understand what happen with Oswald, how he was steered into the book building to take the fall for 11/22. He even admitted as much ("I didn't shoot anyone -- I'm a patsy").
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[...]
Michael,
Does the fact that my hero, Tennent H. Bagley, believed that neither the Russians nor the Cubans had anything to do with the assassination of JFK make the prospect of reading his book Spy Wars any less abhorrent to you?
Or do you look so kindly on the actions of the KGB and the GRU and/or look so unfavorably on those of the CIA in trying to protect America and its allies from their depredations that it's still a revolting proposition?
Too revolting for you to even contemplate? A total waste of time? Surely just more "Mockingbird" or "Deep State" propaganda?
If so, then all that can be said is that 98 years of "active measures," artfully interwoven with 60 years of "strategic deceptions," really had their desired effect on you, my friend.
And it's sad, very sad, indeed -- for you, but more importantly, for our country -- that younger people like you are unwilling to endure a few Russian names and ... gasp ... the complexity of it all and actually read Bagley's truly illuminating 2007 book, Spy Wars.
I have an honest question, for you, Michael:
Are you, like James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio, a Trump supporter by any chance? I rather doubt it, but still ... And how ironic and sad it would be if you actually now supported the "useful idiot" that KGB-boy Vladimir Putin and his virtual agent, Julian Assange, installed as our president in January of 2017.
-- MWT ;)
PS I read State Secret years ago, before you joined the EF, iirc. Haven't you seen my old pro-Simpich posts about it, there?
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Here's an interesting 17-page HSCA document on the mysterious Tampa (home of Fidel Castro's buddy, Santo Trafficante) FPCC member Gilberto Policarpo Lopez ...
... which wasn't released until 2017.
Hmmm
Page 11 is missing, but two footnotes (65 and 66) that were on it are listed in the appendix, so maybe some information can be gleaned from the 1977 CIA Task Force Report that fn #66 refers to ...
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10147-10165.pdf
Fwiw, it's interesting that Policarpo Lopez was classified 4-F by the U.S. Army in 1962, but not for epileptic seizures -- for poor English. (See footnote #49)
(If we're to believe his wife, the poor guy's seizures didn't begin until early 1963, but didn't prevent him from doing construction work in June...)
-- MWT ;)
Edit: His daughter told me today (7/27/19) in an email that he is a very mean and violent man still today, that his family knew that he had lived in Tampa and "Keys," that he'd "been to Laredo, Mexico," that he had been to Communist meetings, that at one point he wanted to go fight in a war in Africa, that he was always very healthy and fit and has never taken medicine for epileptic seizures or anything else.
She also says he often claimed that he was very good at faking epileptic seizures because he didn't want to be drafted into the military, and that he spoke about being "the only passenger on a cargo plane" once, but that he didn't elaborate on the subject.
She says before they left Cuba in 1990 to come to the U.S., three Cuban Intelligence men in black suits came to their apartment to warn them that if he returned to the U.S. he'd be arrested by the U.S. authorities in connection with the JFK assassination.
"He has always said he did not do it but he was always a man who did not talk about anything of his past, not even his childhood. We didn’t even know he had taken his mother, my grandmother’s US citizenship, when we were little. My mom found documents by chance one day."
"He is to the day a very mean and violent man so it would not surprise me if he did but he has never said. I mentioned [in an earlier email] that he said he was the only one in the cargo plane but don’t know why he told us."
And from one of her posts on this thread earlier today:
"He resides in Miami now. He said he left to Havana [from Mexico City?] illegally in a 'cargo plane.'"
Douglas Caddy posted this newspaper article today at the EF:
https://nypost.com/2019/08/24/the-cuban-expat-who-may-have-helped-lee-harvey-oswald-assassinate-jfk/?utm_source=facebook_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site+buttons&utm_campaign=site+buttons&fbclid=IwAR2wRw48el57Iv9jVVhLHE-xp4WeZPM3gYkCURfJ1qE6JjNiMJSvzV21LfE
-- MWT ;)
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I was trying to find the book but I cannot find it. I remember his version was in Spanish. May I had the wrong author.
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I was trying to find the book but I cannot find it. I remember his version was in Spanish. May I had the wrong author.
Thanks for the feedback, Lisbette.
Have you seen this National Enquirer article, yet?
I believe there are several misstatments and misconceptions in it.
For example, on a "philosophical" level, I believe it was clearly shown in The lost Bullet that the fatal head shot came from the rear -- the mist consisting of blood and bits of JFK's brain can be seen going forward in the scanned and digitally-enhanced Orville Nix (iirc) film when viewed in slow motion.
https://www.pressreader.com/
-- MWT ;)
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It must have gotten lost in all of your inane references to Bermuda shorts.
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It must have gotten lost in all of your inane references to Bermuda shorts.
Iacoletti,
Wasn't it you who posted a photo, on another thread, of five or six really cute dudes wearing 'em in you vain effort to show that the three people wearing skirts and calf-length raincoats over dresses on the Pergola Patio in Towner might actually be men?
-- MWT ;)
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No, that was the thing you made up to be sarcastic and obnoxious.
It’s amusing though that William is repetitively harping on you the way you repetitively harp on others. Taste of your own medicine.
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No, that was the thing you made up to be sarcastic and obnoxious.
Iacoletti,
Are you saying it was I who posted that GQ (or whatever) photo of those Bermuda shorts-wearing dudes?
To "prove" that the three people with bare lower legs on the Pergola Patio in Towner could be men?
And the photo of the guy wearing Bermuda shorts in the snow to "prove" that it wasn't really unusual for guys to be wearing them on a cool and blustery day ... in late November in conservative 1963 Dallas?
It was I who did that?
Question: Have you always been a teller of non-truths?
-- MWT ;)
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Have the Russkies landed yet?
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Have the Russkies landed yet?
You tell me, John.
Joined QAnon, yet?
Aids was developed at Fort Detrick to decimate the Black population, right?
Hillary and Bill still runnin' that pedophile ring outta Cosmo Pizza?
Ukraine is a Fascist country and it was torturing those poor ethnic Russians in the Donbas and Crimea!
The FSB, SVR and GRU are humanitarian organizations.
We live in an evil, evil, evil Deep State.
(They killed Seth Rich, right?)
THE COLD WAR IS OVER AND WE WON!
-- MWT ;)
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(https://giantbomb1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/0/6507/369043-abe_simpson.gif)
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(https://giantbomb1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/0/6507/369043-abe_simpson.gif)
That's what eating rotten potatoes and drinking cheap Russian vodka will do to you, John, and ritualistic Onanism in the garden won't help you one measly bit, no matter how often you do it.
-- MWT ;)