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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: James Hackerott on April 15, 2019, 03:31:51 AM

Title: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 15, 2019, 03:31:51 AM
This scene is burned in my mind as representing the three women Stella Jacob, Jeanie Holt and Sharon Simmons. The following animation frame count was thinned by about 75% to manage size while still capturing the action which lasts almost 4 seconds in real time. This scene follows the frames included in Denis Morissette's Darnell compilation showing the women while still on the pergola patio, which after duplicate frames are removed lasts a little more than 1.4 seconds.

The women have now left the pergola patio and are on the grass still walking eastward. Off camera to the right there seems to be one or more people interacting with the women. Sharon points with her left hand's index finger over her right shoulder ? perhaps indicating where they stood during the shooting. Karen displays her horror of the event while raising her open right hand to her chest as if to punctuate what she is saying. Stella is more animated yet, boldly splaying her hands while rolling her eyes skyward, seemingly with a slight grin grimace on her face.
(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)

While a little  hard to detect in the very late frames, Darnell and the women stop walking but the women continue to interact with those hidden figures out of frame. Are they being interviewed by reporters or law enforcement? Obviously, I don't know, but at some point Jacob, Holt and Simmons talked with Deputy C.L. ?Lummie? Lewis of the Dallas County Sheriff's Department. In his supplemental investigation report November 23, 1963 he specifically wrote on page 1 that he talked with these three women.

(https://i.imgur.com/kRyVTg2.png)

James
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 15, 2019, 05:01:11 AM
This scene is burned in my mind as representing the three women Stella Jacob, Karen [sic] Holt and Sharon Simmons. The following animation frame count was thinned by about 75% to manage size while still capturing the action which lasts almost 4 seconds in real time. This scene follows the frames included in Denis Morissette's Darnell compilation showing the women while still on the pergola patio, which after duplicate frames are removed lasts a little more than 1.4 seconds.

The women have now left the pergola patio and are on the grass still walking eastward. Off camera to the right there seems to be one or more people interacting with the women. Sharon points with her left hand's index finger over her right shoulder ? perhaps indicating where they stood during the shooting. Karen displays her horror of the event while raising her open right hand to her chest as if to punctuate what she is saying. Stella is more animated yet, boldly splaying her hands while rolling her eyes skyward, seemingly with a slight grin on her face.
(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)

While a little  hard to detect in the very late frames, Darnell and the women stop walking but the women continue to interact with those hidden figures out of frame. Are they being interviewed by reporters or law enforcement? Obviously, I don't know, but at some point Jacob, Holt and Simmons talked with Deputy C.L. ?Lummie? Lewis of the Dallas County Sheriff's Department. In his supplemental investigation report November 23, 1963 he specifically wrote on page 1 that he talked with these three women.

(https://i.imgur.com/kRyVTg2.png)

James

Great post, James.

I'd never seen that clip or that document before.

It makes sense that Lummie would have been talking with them or at least listening to them there.

They were well off the Pergola Patio at the time.

Looks as though Jacob has a scarf around her neck and that she is somewhat "bucktoothed".

Two men pass from left to right behind them. I wonder who they were, and whether or not they were caught in any "time stamped" photographic images around the Grassy Knoll after the assassination?

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 15, 2019, 06:01:22 AM

Behold, I give you (from left to right) Westbrook's "Probably Carol Reed, Definitely Gloria Calvery, and Me, Karen Westbrook!"

LOL

(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 16, 2019, 04:11:38 AM
Behold, I give you (from left to right) Westbrook's "Probably Carol Reed, Definitely Gloria Calvery, and Me, Karen Westbrook!"

Nope. Westbrook didn?t look at the Darnell footage. Try again.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 16, 2019, 06:13:03 AM
Again, Mr. Clueless, nobody is claiming that Calvery is one of the Darnell women.

No, Iacoletti.  You and Westbrook are claiming that Calvery is one of the Darnell gals, but you evidently don't realize it.

The three gals in Towner and the three gals in Darnell are the same people, and they are also visible in Zapruder "by" the Stemmons Sign.  Simmons is the one wearing the blue headscarf, Holt is the one with the strawberry-blond hair, and Jacob is the one with the poofed-up black hair, the dark complexion (as can be seen in Z-60, etc), and the off-white skirt and dark brown jacket.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 16, 2019, 07:54:59 PM
No, Iacoletti.  You and Westbrook are claiming that Calvery is one of the Darnell gals, but you evidently don't realize it.

The three gals in Towner and the three gals in Darnell are the same people,

Says you.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 17, 2019, 12:23:49 AM
7
Why would anybody else share your pareidolia?

All this fuss over this blurry mess:

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/towmer4.gif)

How do you even know Darnell is anywhere near there?

Iacoletti,

When you look at those three gals, can you see that 1) the one on the left has black hair and is wearing a white skirt and a brown coat, 2) the one in the middle has blondish hair and is wearing a dark-colored dress or raincoat, and 3) the one on the right is wearing a dark dress or raincoat and a light-blue headscarf?

Yes or No?

Can you see that they are on the Pergola Patio, near its front edge?

Yes or No?

Can you see that the man who's running as though he wants to interdict them has what could very well be a camera bag bouncing on the right side of his body?

Yes or No?

Or are they all just "blobs" to you?

LOL

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2019, 12:28:45 AM
Iacoletti,

You don't need to put my name in every post.

Quote
When you look at those three gals,

How do you even know they're "gals"?

Quote
can you see that 1) the one on the left has black hair

No.

Quote
and is wearing a white skirt

Possibly.

Quote
and a brown coat,

No.

Quote
2) the one in the middle has blondish hair

No.

Quote
and is wearing dark clothing,

Possibly.

Quote
and 3) the one on the right is wearing a dark raincoat

No.

Quote
and a light-blue headscarf?

Possibly.

Quote
Can you see that they are on the Pergola Patio, near its front edge?

Yes.

Do you know when Darnell took his footage and where he was standing at the time?

Yes or No?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 17, 2019, 12:58:29 AM

How do you even know they're "gals"?

No.

Possibly.

No.

No.

Possibly.

No.

Possibly.

Yes.


Iacoletti,

Why the three wimpy "possiblies"?

Why so oops, sorry tentative?

Don't want to go on record as agreeing with the obvious?

For example, what's preventing you from "stipulating" that the two people on the right in that trio are wearing dark-colored dresses or raincoats?

Do you really think the clothes those two people are wearing might not be dark-colored, or that the garments they're wearing might be trousers, or ... gasp ... Bermuda shorts?

Both?

Tangential question: Do you really think that any or all of those three people could be guys?

Really?

Which ones do you think might be guys, Iacoletti?

1) The one wearing the white skirt?

2) The one with the blondish hair?

3) The one wearing the light-blue headscarf?

-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 17, 2019, 01:07:48 AM
I find it difficult to comprehend any reasoning for a thought process of denial that the PicturedImages represent StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharronSimmons, especially considering available corroboration for said identities. And, I am confident that James is not implying that StellaJacobImage is 'grinning', but is attempting to express her reaction to the astonishing event she has just witnessed.

Thank you Larry. Grinning was a poor choice of wording. Perhaps grimacing is a better choice.

James
 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 17, 2019, 03:25:22 AM
Thanks, and just a guess, but she appears with her eye movement to be describing a head shot. And, my first view as well.
Also, the actions of her hands gave me that same opinion. I had to dig back to 2003 to find that clip.

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2019, 04:32:36 AM
Iacoletti,

You don?t need to put my name in every post.

Quote
Why the three wimpy "possiblies"?

Why so oops, sorry tentative?

Because an unproven conjecture is an unproven conjecture. Even if you express it confidently.

Quote
Don't want to go on record as agreeing with the obvious?

Didn?t you just say it was a mistake to call what you think you see in photographs ?obvious??

Quote
For example, what's preventing you from "stipulating" that the two people on the right in that trio are wearing dark-colored dresses or raincoats?

How did you decide that?s a ?raincoat??

Quote
Do you really think the clothes those two people are wearing might not be dark-colored, or that the garments they're wearing might be trousers, or ... gasp ... Bermuda shorts?

They might be lots of things. How is that helpful?

Quote
Tangential question: Do you really think that any or all of those three people could be guys?

How did you decide they are ?gals? ? without pre-assuming that they are the Zapruder sign people that is?

Quote
Which ones do you think might be guys, Iacoletti?

1) The one wearing the white skirt?

How do you know it?s a skirt?

Quote
2) The one with the blondish hair?

Only ?gals? have lighter-colored hair?

Quote
3) The one wearing the light-blue headscarf?

How do you know it?s a headscarf?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 17, 2019, 05:17:42 AM
Didn?t you just say it was a mistake to call what you think you see in photographs ?obvious??

Yes, Iacoletti, but obviously not really, really, really obvious things, like what I wrote above about the three gals in the Towner film. What I was referring to were things like the not-so-obvious fact that your "Glasses Woman" in Betzner-3 is wearing glasses, and the fact that two fuzzy-but-discernable horizontal bars can been seen in the skirt of your "Glasses Woman" as she's standing on a lower step in Darnell (but if and only if one correctly enlarges the proper frames from the clearest copy of Darnell one can find, and one knows where to look to find the the narrow section of her skirt in that film -- and what to ignore, as well, like the left side of another woman's face that partially obscures it, iirc, etc).

How did you decide that?s a ?raincoat??

Why do you constantly over-exaggerate or under-exaggerate, Iacolletti?  I said dresses or raincoats.  (Can you see bare lower legs?)

They might be lots of things. How is that helpful?

Like what, Iacoletti? Can you think of any plausible alternatives?

How did you decide they are ?gals? ? without pre-assuming that they are the Zapruder sign people that is?

LOL

How do you know it?s a skirt?

LOL

Only ?gals? have lighter-colored hair?

Did I imply that, Iacoletti, or did I say "blondish hair" as a label so you'd know who I was talking about?

How do you know it?s a headscarf?

Can you think of any plausible alternatives, Iacoletti?  If so, what are they?  (I'd love to hear what you've got on that score.)

.......

All-in-all, Typical Iacoletti.

Avoidance.

Deflection.

Agenda.

-- MWT  ;)

.......


Pssst, Iacoletti --

Taking into account the fact we can see the bare lower legs of those three people in the Towner clip, if you had to guess, would you say those three people are men or women?

Or is it impossible for you to discern their bare lower legs because "the images in the clip are too blurry to say anything definite about them; they're just ... blobs"?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2019, 01:44:29 PM
Iacoletti,

You don?t need to put my name in every post.

Quote
In case you missed it, I said "plausible alternatives".

And you?re the arbiter of plausibility?  :D

One thing that seems to have escaped your notice is that the women in the Darnell footage are only seen from the chest up. So what do the alleged bare legs in Towner have to do with anything?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2019, 07:27:31 PM
Anyone who believes the gals in the Tina Towner Trio could actually be guys wearing Bermuda shorts or flesh-colored boots has got to be on some kind of weirdo, agenda-driven "mission".

Since it's all assumptions made from squinting at a blurry, enlarged video, and no other evidence, any assumption about their apparel is no more or less weird than any other.  Your assumptions aren't automatically more plausible just because you made them.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 17, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
Since it's all assumptions made from squinting at a blurry, enlarged video, and no other evidence, any assumption about their apparel is no more or less weird than any other.  Your assumptions aren't automatically more plausible just because you made them.

Iacoletti,

You're a L-I-A-R if you say you can't see the bare lower legs of those three gals in Towner.

Synonyms: Prevaricator, Teller Of Non-Truths.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Do you actually enjoy making a fool of yourself "in public" like this?

LOL
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2019, 09:43:38 PM
Iacoletti,

You're a L-I-A-R if you say you can't see the bare lower legs of those three gals in Towner.

Synonyms: Prevaricator, Teller Of Non-Truths.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Do you actually enjoy making a fool of yourself "in public" like this?

LOL

Do you actually think that these insults make your argument any better?

LOL
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 18, 2019, 12:40:50 AM
Do you actually think that these insults make your argument any better?

LOL

Iacoletti,

My argument regarding the three gals' in Towner being, from left to right, Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons doesn't need to be any better. Either you are sufficiently open-minded (and have something less-than-blindness visual acuity) to be able to "see" it, or you aren't.

I'm convinced that you, short of my providing you with DNA samples and notarized statements, never will, and that you will continue to hold back and confuse "newbies" as well as more seasoned students regarding the true identities of Westbrook's from-behind-and-54-years-after-the-fact "Probably Carol Reed, Definitely Gloria Calvery, and Definitely Me, Karen Westbrook!" in the Z-film (and, concomitantly, in a from-the-front, but in-the-distance, photographic image).

Factoid: Westbrook was so confused with smiling-and-nodding Fagin in 2017 that she thought both of her colleagues by the name of "Carol" had watched the motorcade with her.

Factoid:  It's interesting that Fagin mentioned that Calvery's own son disagreed with Westbrook about her woebegone "identification" of his mother in the Z-film (probably because he'd correctly spotted her in Betzner-3 and realized that she couldn't simultaneously be in the clutch of women down "by" the Stemmons Sign in that photo).

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 18, 2019, 05:16:01 AM
Iacoletti,

You don?t need to put my name in every post.

Quote
My argument regarding the three gals' in Towner being, from left to right, Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons doesn't need to be any better.

Yes it does. The idea that you can get identities out of that indistinct mess is absurd.

Quote
Either you are sufficiently open-minded (and have something less-than-blindness visual acuity) to be able to "see" it, or you aren't.

Open-mindedness has nothing to do with it. You can either prove who they are (without just assuming they are the same people in black & white footage taken by somebody else) or you can?t. Appealing to ?visual acuity? is just a cop out.

Quote
I'm convinced that you, short of my providing you with DNA samples and notarized statements, never will,

Why should anyone just accept your handwaving ?looks like them to me? argument? Because you have nothing better?

Quote
and that you will continue to hold back and confuse "newbies" as well as more seasoned students regarding the true identities of Westbrook's from-behind-and-54-years-after-the-fact "Probably Carol Reed, Definitely Gloria Calvery, and Definitely Me, Karen Westbrook!" in the Z-film (and, concomitantly, in a from-the-front, but in-the-distance, photographic image).

Says the guy who thinks Towner is conclusive?  :D

Quote
Factoid: Westbrook was so confused with smiling-and-nodding Fagin in 2017 that she thought both of her colleagues by the name of "Carol" had watched the motorcade with her.

And you think you know differently? Which one of you was there?

Quote
Factoid:  It's interesting that Fagin mentioned that Calvery's own son disagreed with Westbrook about her woebegone "identification" of his mother in the Z-film (probably because he'd correctly spotted her in Betzner-3 and realized that she couldn't simultaneously be in the clutch of women down "by" the Stemmons Sign in that photo).

You mean the son who was born in 1977?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 18, 2019, 05:26:17 AM
You mean the son who was born in 1977?

Iacoletti (your name has such a nice "ring" to it),

You're full of ca-ca, dude, and you're stinkin' the place up.

Take, for example, your last "point".

When you were ... uh ... growing up (LOL!), didn't you ever see any photographs of your mother when she was in her late teens or early twenties?

What, they didn't let you see them?

-- MWT  ;)



Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 18, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Iacoletti (your name has such a nice "ring" to it),

Thanks, but you don?t need to put my name in every post.

Quote
You're full of ca-ca, dude, and you're stinkin' the place up.

Another solid evidence-based argument from the mud wrassler.

Quote
When you were ... uh ... growing up (LOL!), didn't you ever see any photographs of your mother when she was in her late teens or early twenties?

As a matter of fact, an old friend of my mom?s once sent me an old group photo ? blurry and taken at a distance ? and he said that one of the figures in the photo was my mom. Although I took his word for it (because he was there and he knew her at that time), if a narcissist stranger who had never known ( or even seen) my mom had shown me the same picture and asked if that figure is my mom, all I could say would be, ?I don?t know. It looks like her from a height/profile standpoint?. No way would that constitute a ?confirmation?.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 18, 2019, 04:00:54 PM
Thank you so much for this Darnell clip I?ve never seen before! Where did you find it? Great to see Gloria Holt, Ms Jacob and Nelson.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 18, 2019, 05:15:08 PM
It is Deputy Sheriff Lummie Lewis in the background.

https://imgur.com/a/KFBkSer

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 18, 2019, 05:23:57 PM
It is Deputy Sheriff Lummie Lewis in the background.

https://imgur.com/a/KFBkSer

Don't tell Tom Graves.  He'll insist that the "fedora" proves that it's Ernest Brandt.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 18, 2019, 05:42:28 PM
Jim, I added your clip to my compilation:
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 18, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
Thank you so much for this Darnell clip I?ve never seen before! Where did you find it? Great to see Gloria Holt, Ms Jacob and Nelson.

Denis/Dennis,

Thank you for "weighing in" on this.

It should be obvious to anyone with an open mind and reasonably good eyesight that those three people in the Towner film are women, that one of them is wearing a light blue headscarf and a dark-colored dress or raincoat, that another one has blondish-colored hair, and the third one is wearing a "white" skirt and a brown jacket and has a head full of black hair.

Just like the trio in Zapruder, standing "by" the Stemmons Sign.

What are the odds that there were two groups of gals who looked that way in Dealey Plaza between 12:30 and, say, 12:45 that afternoon?

Answer: "Slim and none."

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 18, 2019, 06:25:09 PM
Denis gave you multiple chances to behave like a decent human being.  But that's beyond your skill level.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 18, 2019, 06:29:04 PM
Denis gave you multiple chances to behave like a decent human being.  But that's beyond your skill level.

Well said. If he becomes a new man, a new person, I may remove the ban. I hope he gets all the help he needs.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 18, 2019, 06:33:57 PM
Well said. If he becomes a new man, a new person, I may remove the ban.

Yeah, that would last about 3 minutes...
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 18, 2019, 06:36:50 PM
He might apologize to me someday.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 18, 2019, 10:01:52 PM
Thank you so much for this Darnell clip I?ve never seen before! Where did you find it? Great to see Gloria Holt, Ms Jacob and Nelson.
Denis, thank you for your reply. After two or three campaigns to locate that clip I finally found it this week on a video CD (320x240 and highly compressed). The source was a MSNBC special around the 40th anniversary, and titled ?The Day That Changed America?. Beware-there are several specials over the years with similar titles. I think it was re-broadcast at a later date as ?Celebrities Remember?.
James

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 18, 2019, 10:06:11 PM
Jim, I added your clip to my compilation:
That looks good Denis. I appreciate your making the compilation. Ms. Sitzman looks nicely placed too now  Thumb1: 
James
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 19, 2019, 01:14:33 AM
James, I found this. Do you have the full show on CD?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3341739/ns/msnbc-jfk_the_day_that_changed_america/t/jfk-day-changed-america/#.XLkSwDBKjIU
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 19, 2019, 02:40:24 AM
James, I found this. Do you have the full show on CD?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3341739/ns/msnbc-jfk_the_day_that_changed_america/t/jfk-day-changed-america/#.XLkSwDBKjIU

Yes, that is the same show and yes all is on the CD. Even Judge Judy is there too along with commercials. There are not any ending credits and I don't know if they were even broadcast with the show or the recording stopped early. I wonder if that scene is included the copy the Sixth Floor has for viewing. I want to see that copy...maybe this year.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 19, 2019, 06:09:15 PM
That looks good Denis. I appreciate your making the compilation. Ms. Sitzman looks nicely placed too now  Thumb1: 
James

It's funny how Iacoletti's "Gloria Calvery" in Darnell doesn't look anything like Gloria Calvery, but does look like a different Gloria -- Gloria Holt.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 19, 2019, 06:12:24 PM
By looking at the Darnell girl, Steve of the 6FM would tell you she is not Westbrook.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 19, 2019, 07:46:08 PM
By looking at the Darnell girl, Steve of the 6FM would tell you she is not Westbrook.

Steve?

Steve who?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 19, 2019, 07:52:49 PM
Steve?

Steve who?

-- MWT   ;)

Stephen Fagin who interviewed Karen.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 19, 2019, 08:34:44 PM
Stephen Fagin who interviewed Karen.

Has he told you that?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 19, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
Has he told you that?

Yes, he did. He says the Darnell frame shows she has bangs but Karen in the color 1963 photos does not, a fact that nobody can deny. I mean nobody credible.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 20, 2019, 01:28:21 AM
Yes, he did. He says the Darnell frame shows she has bangs but Karen in the color 1963 photos does not, a fact that nobody can deny. I mean nobody credible.

Very interesting.

Nice "catch" on his part.

Thanks for the feedback, Denis.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 20, 2019, 03:47:33 AM
Sharon Simmons did have bangs a few years prior...
http://imgur.com/a/26u6ThN
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 20, 2019, 03:50:05 AM
I added some bangs to Sharon.
http://imgur.com/a/WlkxxT2
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 20, 2019, 04:02:26 AM
I flipped the Darnell frame horizontally. The left is right and the right is left.
https://imgur.com/a/vMO2T8t
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 20, 2019, 05:32:50 AM
It's funny how Iacoletti's "Gloria Calvery" in Darnell doesn't look anything like Gloria Calvery, but does look like a different Gloria -- Gloria Holt.

Iacoletti never claimed that anyone in Darnell is Calvery.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 20, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Sharon Simmons did have bangs a few years prior...
http://imgur.com/a/26u6ThN

Denis, I don?t believe that?s the right Sharon Simmons. The one I found fits her age better.

Adamson High, 1962

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/sharon-simmons-adamson-high-1962.png)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 20, 2019, 05:45:17 AM
Close match. I had forgotten about that one.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 21, 2019, 03:22:57 AM
Why would anybody else share your pareidolia?

All this fuss over this blurry mess:

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/towmer4.gif)

How do you even know Darnell is anywhere near there?
Darnell running in Dealey Plaza on a different day. Generally looks the same.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 21, 2019, 11:27:33 PM
Darnell running in Dealey Plaza on a different day. Generally looks the same.

Thanks, Denis.

I wonder if Darnell filmed Iacoletti's "Three Men Wearing Flesh-Colored, Thigh-High Boots" leaving the Pergola Patio (and then walking across the grass) with the same camera?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 21, 2019, 11:36:59 PM
I wonder if Tommy is ever going to make a valid argument. About anything.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 22, 2019, 01:22:58 AM
I wonder if Tommy is ever going to make a valid argument. About anything.

Iacoletti,

Or was it one woman wearing a white skirt with a brown jacket, and two men wearing boardshorts?

Impossible to say?  So much onanism on full-moon nights in the garden that all you can see now are "blobs"?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 22, 2019, 06:44:29 PM
Iacoletti,

Or was it one woman wearing a white skirt with a brown jacket, and two men wearing boardshorts?

-- MWT   ;)

Okay, how about one man wearing white boardshorts and two men wearing dark ones?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 22, 2019, 08:25:26 PM
Darnell running in Dealey Plaza on a different day. Generally looks the same.

    I believe we need to keep the time frame of the above images in mind when naming the suited man running across the Knoll as Darnell. Darnell took a while to cross Elm St to its' (N) side. He then at some point traveled well behind the Pergola to film the railroad cars area and the Throng of people that were Already situated back there, and traveling back and forth up/down The Steps. Plus, there was already a heavy contingent of law enforcement back behind the Pergola at this point in time. When you consider some of these enforcement officers were initially examining the man hole cover on the South side of Elm and then Eventually went across Elm and Then focused their attention on the railroad car area behind the Pergola = a serious amount of time passing for Darnell to possibly film all of this and then be sprinting across the Knoll. Sitzman is a good person to use as a rough time stamp for this footage. Sitzman is also photographed in front of the TSBD shortly after the assassination. If that is Darnell running across the Knoll in the footage above, then I believe the photos of Sitzman in front of the TSBD would have to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 hour or more after the assassination. I do not believe those photos of Sitzman are close to that long after the assassination. Therefore, I do Not believe we are seeing Darnell in the footage above running across the Knoll. The cavalierly accepted time stamping of film and still images of the JFK Assassination continues to hinder this investigation.     
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 22, 2019, 08:32:29 PM
I specified in the caption that this clip is of a different day.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 22, 2019, 08:38:53 PM
I specified in the caption that this clip is of a different day.

Denis,

I don't think he's referring to that clip.

He's talking about people and events photographed or filmed right after the assassination.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on April 22, 2019, 08:40:57 PM
Denis,

I don't think he's referring to that clip.

He's talking about people and events photographed or filmed right after the assassination.

-- MWT   ;)

Thanks.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 22, 2019, 08:42:54 PM
I specified in the caption that this clip is of a different day.

    Yeah Denis I understood that. I am referring to the B/W footage showing a man in a suit running across the Knoll. If that is Sitzman in the background, then I do Not believe that suited running man is Darnell. Darnell did not have the time to travel/film all the stuff behind the Pergola and get into the position of this suited running man. I believe Sitzman still being beside the Pedestal eliminates Darnell as being this guy. When Sitzman was interviewed by Tink Thompson for "Six Seconds In Dallas", she told Thompson that she conversed with a credentialed G-Man at the top of the Knoll. This suited man we are seeing running across the Knoll could very easily be the G-Man that Sitzman told Thompson she spoke with. 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 22, 2019, 11:09:06 PM
    Yeah Denis I understood that. I am referring to the B/W footage showing a man in a suit running across the Knoll. If that is Sitzman in the background, then I do Not believe that suited running man is Darnell. Darnell did not have the time to travel/film all the stuff behind the Pergola and get into the position of this suited running man. I believe Sitzman still being beside the Pedestal eliminates Darnell as being this guy. When Sitzman was interviewed by Tink Thompson for "Six Seconds In Dallas", she told Thompson that she conversed with a credentialed G-Man at the top of the Knoll. This suited man we are seeing running across the Knoll could very easily be the G-Man that Sitzman told Thompson she spoke with.

Royell,

Wonderful analysis.

Who, then, with something big and white in his right coat pocket do you figure filmed Jacob, Holt and Simmons as they stepped onto the grass from the Pergola Patio (and then as they were walking across the grass in the direction of the TSBD) a "few" minutes after the assassination?

-- MWT   ;)

PS  Something I just thought of:  What did Lummie Lewis do after he spoke with those three gals?

Can you photographically time-stamp his movements?

Is Lummie visible in the Tina Towner clip?

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 23, 2019, 12:04:56 AM
Royell,

Wonderful analysis.

Who, then, with something big and white in his right coat pocket do you figure filmed Jacob, Holt and Simmons as they stepped onto the grass from the Pergola Patio (and then as they were walking across the grass in the direction of the TSBD) a "few" minutes after the assassination?

-- MWT   ;)

PS  Something I just thought of:  What did Lummie Lewis do after he spoke with those three gals?

Can you photographically time-stamp his movements?

Is Lummie visible in the Tina Towner clip?

    I do Not know who may have shot that footage based on it Currently being time stamped as happening just a Few minutes after the assassination. Based on the protracted journey Darnell took, and the crowds of people he filmed that were Already milling around Behind the Pergola, in addition to his also filming law enforcement Already being back there, (notably Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig who initially examined the man hole cover area on the South side of Elm), = No Way the time stamping of the footage being "A few minutes" matches up with having been done by Darnell. Sitzman being captured on the footage also would DQ Darnell having filmed her only a Few Minutes after the assassination. 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 12:09:40 AM
    I do Not know who may have shot that footage based on it Currently being time stamped as happening just a Few minutes after the assassination. Based on the protracted journey Darnell took, and the crowds of people he filmed that were Already milling around Behind the Pergola, in addition to his also filming law enforcement Already being back there, (notably Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig who initially examined the man hole cover area on the South side of Elm), = No Way the time stamping of the footage being "A few minutes" matches up with having been done by Darnell. Sitzman being captured on the footage also would DQ Darnell having filmed her only a Few Minutes after the assassination.

No idea, huh?

-- MWT   ;)

PS 

1) Are you absolutely sure that all of your approximations are correct?

2) Do you seriously doubt that those three gals are, from left to right, Jacob, Holt and Simmons?


Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 23, 2019, 12:59:36 AM
No idea, huh?

-- MWT   ;)

PS 

1) Are you absolutely sure that all of your approximations are correct?

2) Do you seriously doubt that those three gals are, from left to right, Jacob, Holt and Simmons?

    (1) Well, for the moment, let's just focus on Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig. How long after the Kill Shot do You think it would take Craig to: (1) Arrive at the Man Hole Cover area on the (S) side of Elm ST, (2) Examine that Man Hole Cover Area, and (3) cross Elm St and walk back to the railroad car area well behind the Pergola where he is allegedly filmed by Darnell?  That Darnell footage clearly reveals the railroad car area to already be a beehive of activity at that point in time.

    (2) I believe the on-going squabbling regarding the ID of those 3 women is non-productive.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 01:09:58 AM
    (1) Well, for the moment, let's just focus on Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig. How long after the Kill Shot do You think it would take Craig to: (1) Arrive at the Man Hole Cover area on the (S) side of Elm ST, (2) Examine that Man Hole Cover Area, and (3) cross Elm St and walk back to the railroad car area well behind the Pergola where he is allegedly filmed by Darnell?  That Darnell footage clearly reveals the railroad car area to already be a beehive of activity at that point in time.

    (2) I believe the on-going squabbling regarding the ID of those 3 women is non-productive.

Royell,

You don't think the correct identification of Gloria Calvery (i.e., not Westbrook's "Calvert" (sic)) in Zapruder -- and on the TSBD steps in Darnell -- has a bearing on Shelly's and Lovelady's and Vicki Adams' and Lee Harvey Oswald's actions after the assassination, and their respective statements about same?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 23, 2019, 02:10:21 AM
Royell,

You don't think the correct identification of Gloria Calvery (i.e., not Westbrook's "Calvert" (sic)) in Zapruder and on the TSBD steps in Darnell has a bearing on Shelly's and Lovelady's and Vicki Adams' and Lee Harvey Oswald's actions after the assassination, and their respective statements about same?

-- MWT   ;)

      Conflicting eyewitness statements can be debated until the cows come home. To this day we remain unsure as to what Darnell actually did and did not film. Correctly time stamping assassination images is invaluable.  For close to 40 years it was falsely believed that the Wiegman Film was shot continuously and the timelines of other assassination images were accordingly assigned. The inaccurate JFK assassination image time lines that were merely rubber stamped by the Old Guard JFK Research Community continue to dog this case.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 02:20:55 AM
      Conflicting eyewitness statements can be debated until the cows come home. To this day we remain unsure as to what Darnell actually did and did not film. Correctly time stamping assassination images is invaluable.  For close to 40 years it was falsely believed that the Wiegman Film was shot continuously and the timelines of other assassination images were accordingly assigned. The inaccurate JFK assassination image time lines that were merely rubber stamped by the Old Guard JFK Research Community continue to dog this case.

Royell,

What makes you think your approximations are particularly accurate?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 06:50:55 AM
For possible "timestamping" purposes, what's the guy in the foreground holding at the end of the Towner GIF?  An umbrella?

-- MWT   ;)

Edit:  Upon further review, it looks as though it could be a scratch in the film.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1303.0.html

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
Royell,

How many minutes between the fatal headshot and Darnell's filming of Sitzman smoking a cigarette and talking to that man do you figure Darnell would have needed to do all of the things he did?

-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
deleted by MWT
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Larry Trotter on April 23, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
Dear "Battles" Royell,

The more thought I give your "analysis," the more I realize just how full of beans you are.

Given the circumstances, it's easy to understand that James Darnell did not take his own sweet time to go where he went, and to film the things he filmed.

Not only that, but you've probably misidentified Sitzman in at least one image (where is she in the Dorman film, btw?).

You do agree that Darnell filmed Sitzman as she was smoking a cigarette and talking to that man, don't you?

Bottom line: That's James Darnell running across the grass towards Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons on the Pergola Patio (getting ready to step down onto the grass) in the Towner film, the same three gals who were filmed from behind "by" the Stemmons Sign by Zapruder, and photographed from the front by Betzner in Betzner-3.

Get over it and live to battle another day.

-- MWT  ;)

Mr Graves;

Remembering that the DallasCountySheriff's Office Building being located on Main St at Houston St, places it just across the street from DealeyPlaza, and with DCS Deputies standing on the corner of Main at Houston allowed for quick area access for them to the scene.

I believe that MarilynSitzmanImage is pictured being interviewed
  by DCS Deputy John"Bill"WisemanImage.

And, I believe that StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharronSimmons had been, or were, interviewed by DCS Deputy CL"Lummie"Lewis soon after the shootings of JFK Sr and JBC Jr.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lewis_cl.htm
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 10:45:24 PM
Mr Graves;

Remembering that the DallasCountySheriff's Office Building being located on Main St at Houston St, places it just across the street from DealeyPlaza, and with DCS Deputies standing on the corner of Main at Houston allowed for quick area access for them to the scene.

I believe that MarilynSitzmanImage is pictured being interviewed
  by DCS Deputy John"Bill"WisemanImage.

And, I believe that StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharronSimmons had been, or were, interviewed by DCS Deputy CL"Lummie"Lewis soon after the shootings of JFK Sr and JBC Jr.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lewis_cl.htm

Thanks Larry.

Yes, Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman.

In his 11/23 report he said Sitzman told him (near the pedestal?) that Zapruder had captured the assassination on film, and he said that both "a man lying on the ground" (Bill Newman?) and Sitzman told him the shots had come from the TSBD, and that when Sitzman told him this, he ran "at once" to the TSBD and entered it.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/wiseman.htm

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 23, 2019, 10:49:36 PM
Mr Graves;

Remembering that the DallasCountySheriff's Office Building being located on Main St at Houston St, places it just across the street from DealeyPlaza, and with DCS Deputies standing on the corner of Main at Houston allowed for quick area access for them to the scene.

I believe that MarilynSitzmanImage is pictured being interviewed
  by DCS Deputy John"Bill"WisemanImage.

And, I believe that StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharronSimmons had been, or were, interviewed by DCS Deputy CL"Lummie"Lewis soon after the shootings of JFK Sr and JBC Jr.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lewis_cl.htm

    Mmmm. Specifically what attracted mass numbers of law enforcement standing on the corner of Houston/Main to the railroad car area well behind Zapruder/The Pergola?  How does this same area somehow become "The Scene" as you call it? 
    Regarding Darnell, it took him an extended amount of time to progress down Elm St . The recently discovered Darnell film snippet shows both Press Buses on Houston St well Behind Darnell.  From the (S) side of Elm St, Darnell allegedly filmed the lead Press Buss going under the Triple Underpass. We know this portion of the JFK Motorcade came to an absolute Dead Stop immediately following the Kill Shot.  How is it the Lead Press Bus after sitting at a Dead Stop somehow managed to PASS Darnell on Elm St? Darnell on foot & unimpeded progressed down Elm St at an extremely slow pace. Darnell's "snails pace" needs to be considered when time stamping the alleged footage he captured of the railroad car/Pergola area. 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 23, 2019, 11:11:48 PM
    Mmmm. Specifically what attracted mass numbers of law enforcement standing on the corner of Houston/Main to the railroad car area well behind Zapruder/The Pergola?  How does this same area somehow become "The Scene" as you call it? 
    Regarding Darnell, it took him an extended amount of time to progress down Elm St . The recently discovered Darnell film snippet shows both Press Buses on Houston St well Behind Darnell.  From the (S) side of Elm St, Darnell allegedly filmed the lead Press Buss going under the Triple Underpass. We know this portion of the JFK Motorcade came to an absolute Dead Stop immediately following the Kill Shot.  How is it the Lead Press Bus after sitting at a Dead Stop somehow managed to PASS Darnell on Elm St? Darnell on foot & unimpeded progressed down Elm St at an extremely slow pace. Darnell's "snails pace" needs to be considered when time stamping the alleged footage he captured of the railroad car/Pergola area.

Battles,

Point being?

That James Darnell was wrongly credited with filming Jacob, Holt, and Simmons as they stepped down from something (the Pergola Patio?), and as they were walking across the grass towards the TSBD?

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Larry Trotter on April 23, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
Mr Graves;

Remembering that the DallasCountySheriff's Office Building being located on Main St at Houston St, places it just across the street from DealeyPlaza, and with DCS Deputies standing on the corner of Main at Houston allowed for quick area access for them to the scene.

I believe that MarilynSitzmanImage is pictured being interviewed
  by DCS Deputy John"Bill"WisemanImage.

And, I believe that StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharronSimmons had been, or were, interviewed by DCS Deputy CL"Lummie"Lewis soon after the shootings of JFK Sr and JBC Jr.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lewis_cl.htm

Thanks Larry.

Yes, Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman.

In his 11/23 report he said Sitzman told him (near the pedestal?) that Zapruder had captured the assassination on film, and he said that both "a man lying on the ground" (Bill Newman?) and Sitzman told him the shots had come from the TSBD, and that when Sitzman told him this, he ran "at once" to the TSBD and entered it.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/wiseman.htm

-- MWT   ;)


    Mmmm. Specifically what attracted mass numbers of law enforcement standing on the corner of Houston/Main to the railroad car area well behind Zapruder/The Pergola?  How does this same area somehow become "The Scene" as you call it? 
    Regarding Darnell, it took him an extended amount of time to progress down Elm St . The recently discovered Darnell film snippet shows both Press Buses on Houston St well Behind Darnell.  From the (S) side of Elm St, Darnell allegedly filmed the lead Press Buss going under the Triple Underpass. We know this portion of the JFK Motorcade came to an absolute Dead Stop immediately following the Kill Shot.  How is it the Lead Press Bus after sitting at a Dead Stop somehow managed to PASS Darnell on Elm St? Darnell on foot & unimpeded progressed down Elm St at an extremely slow pace. Darnell's "snails pace" needs to be considered when time stamping the alleged footage he captured of the railroad car/Pergola area. 

For one thing, to me the two mentioned Deputies does not mean "mass numbers of law enforcement standing on the corner of Main/Houston" being "attracted to the railroad car area well behind Zapruder/The Pergola", as your question asks. What "same area somehow becomes" what "The Scene as I call it"? Your timing statements need a little more corroboration, and try to remember, "Motorcades" tend to move along much faster than "Parades", and pedestrians. And, the first thing I recall noticing about DealeyPlaza was the 'smallness' in person compared to film and photos.

Maybe you failed to notice, Mr Storing, but my post, and Mr Graves post, both provided corroboration for what we both posted.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 02:19:35 AM
Why would anybody else share your pareidolia?

All this fuss over this blurry mess:

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/towmer4.gif)

How do you even know Darnell is anywhere near there?

To whom it may concern --

Darnell is probably turning/swiveling/switching lenses on his 16mm "news" camera while he's running.

-- MWT   ;)


Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 02:50:04 AM

... Which, if true (i.e., he's getting his camera set up to take some relatively close-up shots of Jacob, Holt and Simmons), may be a clue that he had just come from the parking lot, or some other place where he used a "farther away" lens, not the close-up Sitzman-Wiseman scene.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 02:56:29 AM

Which becomes the question:

Would he have used the same focal-length lens to film the Sitzman-Wiseman scene and the Jacob-Holt-Simmons scene?

My theory, above, is based on the assumption that he would have used the same focal-length lens for both scenes.

If I'm right, then it could very well be that he filmed the Sitzman-Wiseman clip before the parking lot clip, and the J-H-S clips after the parking lot clip.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 24, 2019, 05:11:50 AM
To whom it may concern --

Darnell is probably turning/swiveling/switching lenses on his 16mm "news" camera while he's running.

-- MWT   ;)
Thomas,
I showed in another thread that Darnell used the same lens for both Sitzman and the three women. I think it is more likely he was winding the spring as he was chugging along, imo. ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 07:19:40 AM
Thomas,
I showed in another thread that Darnell used the same lens for both Sitzman and the three women. I think it is more likely he was winding the spring as he was chugging along, imo. ;)

James,

1) Just curious -- How did you go about showing that?

2) If Darnell was changing lenses in Towner, could said action while running, and at a distance look similar to windin' 'er up?

3) Do you think the "clips" in Denis' recent youtube video "Darnell Film Compilation, April 18, 2019" are in the correct sequence, particularly "Parking Lot" then "Cop at the Fence/Crowd at the Base of the Grassy Knoll" then "Sitzman/Wiseman" then "Jacob/Holt/Simmons Stepping Down From The Pergola Patio" then "Jacob/Holt/Simmons Walking On The Grass Towards The TSBD"?

--  MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: James Hackerott on April 24, 2019, 04:36:31 PM
James,

1) Just curious -- How did you go about showing that?

2) If Darnell was changing lenses in Towner, could said action while running, and at a distance look similar to windin' 'er up?

3) Do you think the "clips" in Denis' recent youtube video "Darnell Film Compilation, April 18, 2019" are in the correct sequence, particularly "Parking Lot" then "Cop at the Fence/Crowd at the Base of the Grassy Knoll" then "Sitzman/Wiseman" then "Jacob/Holt/Simmons Stepping Down From The Pergola Patio" then "Jacob/Holt/Simmons Walking On The Grass Towards The TSBD"?

--  MWT   ;)
Thomas,
1)
All of the scenes, except for the rail yard/parking area, were created and compared in my 3D model, in which I tweaked various camera locations while varying lens focal length. The Sitzman and Team JHS scenes were particularly useful as they both contained Pergola cutouts in the background that assisted in placing both the subjects, background, and camera distances. I can post those scene recreations if you like.

2)
Sure, with the video resolution we have of that Towner film he could be rotating the lens turret, winding the camera spring, or just holding the camera while jogging. The point I was wanting to make was that per (1) above the lens was not changed from Sitzman to JHS scenes. If he was playing Russian Roulette with the turret then by chance the same lens ended up in the same place :).

3)
The only scene sequences I am 100% confident are the scenes as Darnell first strolls down Elm and the Sitzman/JHS scenes. The Sitzman/JHS dots are connected by Darnell in the Tina Towner film. After crossing Elm I'm not positive about his path and continue to try to figure it out.

James

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 05:20:23 PM
Thomas,
1)
All of the scenes, except for the rail yard/parking area, were created and compared in my 3D model, in which I tweaked various camera locations while varying lens focal length. The Sitzman and Team JHS scenes were particularly useful as they both contained Pergola cutouts in the background that assisted in placing both the subjects, background, and camera distances. I can post those scene recreations if you like.

2)
Sure, with the video resolution we have of that Towner film he could be rotating the lens turret, winding the camera spring, or just holding the camera while jogging. The point I was wanting to make was that per (1) above the lens was not changed from Sitzman to JHS scenes. If he was playing Russian Roulette with the turret then by chance the same lens ended up in the same place :).

3)
The only scene sequences I am 100% confident are the scenes as Darnell first strolls down Elm and the Sitzman/JHS scenes. The Sitzman/JHS dots are connected by Darnell in the Tina Towner film. After crossing Elm I'm not positive about his path and continue to try to figure it out.

James

Thanks James.

You wrote: "The Sitzman/JHS dots are connected by Darnell in the Tina Towner film."

Question:  Other than the fact that he used the same lens for Sitzman and for the two JHS segments, how do we know for sure that Sitzman then JHS is the correct sequence, with no other segment intervening? 

Just because in Towner we see him coming from the area where Sitzman was "captured" talking with Wiseman?

Couldn't he have been coming directly from a different scene (like the "parking lot" or the "cop at the fence") in which he'd used a longer focal-length lens?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 24, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
For one thing, to me the two mentioned Deputies does not mean "mass numbers of law enforcement standing on the corner of Main/Houston" being "attracted to the railroad car area well behind Zapruder/The Pergola", as your question asks. What "same area somehow becomes" what "The Scene as I call it"? Your timing statements need a little more corroboration, and try to remember, "Motorcades" tend to move along much faster than "Parades", and pedestrians. And, the first thing I recall noticing about DealeyPlaza was the 'smallness' in person compared to film and photos.

Maybe you failed to notice, Mr Storing, but my post, and Mr Graves post, both provided corroboration for what we both posted.

    The film footage attributed to Darnell which shows Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig in the train car area behind the Pergola also shows numerous/"Mass" members of law enforcement also being back there. This is Not in dispute.  It is your "smallness" of Dealey Plaza and the minimum length of distance from the corner of Elm/Houston down to the The Steps which ran down from the Shelter that stood immediately behind Zapruder, which makes it obvious that for whatever reason Darnell was progressing down Elm St at a snails pace. Darnell should have easily been able to go from the corner of Elm/Houston down to The Steps area and Not be passed by a Press Bus which was Sitting at a Dead Stop and well Behind him on Houston St. The footage of Deputy Roger Craig behind the Pergola in the railroad car area amidst that throng of law enforcement already back there makes its' accepted timeline as being Bogus. Remember, Deputy Craig examined the Man Hole Cover area on the (S) side of Elm St. BEFORE he crossed Elm and went back behind the Pergola into the train car area where we see him on the film footage. Another consideration is that we really do Not know if we are seeing the film footage in the chronological order it was actually filmed. Is it possible that the filming of the 3 ladies walking across the Knoll, and that of Sitzman standing by the Zapruder Perch were actually filmed Before the Deputy Roger Craig segment?. Much of the current film footage attributed to Darnell has been discovered in bits and pieces and patched together over the course of 55+ years 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 24, 2019, 06:13:30 PM
    The film footage attributed to Darnell which shows Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig in the train car area behind the Pergola also shows numerous/"Mass" members of law enforcement also being back there. This is Not in dispute.  It is your "smallness" of Dealey Plaza and the minimum length of distance from the corner of Elm/Houston down to the The Steps which ran down from the Shelter that stood immediately behind Zapruder, which makes it obvious that for whatever reason Darnell was progressing down Elm St at a snails pace. Darnell should have easily been able to go from the corner of Elm/Houston down to The Steps area and Not be passed by a Press Bus which was Sitting at a Dead Stop and well Behind him on Houston St. The footage of Deputy Roger Craig behind the Pergola in the railroad car area amidst that throng of law enforcement already back there makes its' accepted timeline as being Bogus. Remember, Deputy Craig examined the Man Hole Cover area on the (S) side of Elm St. BEFORE he crossed Elm and went back behind the Pergola into the train car area where we see him on the film footage. Another consideration is that we really do Not know if we are seeing the film footage in the chronological order it was actually filmed. Is it possible that the filming of the 3 ladies walking across the Knoll, and that of Sitzman standing by the Zapruder Perch were actually filmed Before the Deputy Roger Craig segment?. Much of the current film footage attributed to Darnell has been discovered in bits and pieces and patched together over the course of 55+ years

Battles Royell,

Just curious: Are you an Alterationist?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 27, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
This scene is burned in my mind as representing the three women Stella Jacob, Karen Holt and Sharon Simmons. The following animation frame count was thinned by about 75% to manage size while still capturing the action which lasts almost 4 seconds in real time. This scene follows the frames included in Denis Morissette's Darnell compilation showing the women while still on the pergola patio, which after duplicate frames are removed lasts a little more than 1.4 seconds.

The women have now left the pergola patio and are on the grass still walking eastward. Off camera to the right there seems to be one or more people interacting with the women. Sharon points with her left hand's index finger over her right shoulder ? perhaps indicating where they stood during the shooting. Karen displays her horror of the event while raising her open right hand to her chest as if to punctuate what she is saying. Stella is more animated yet, boldly splaying her hands while rolling her eyes skyward, seemingly with a slight grin grimace on her face.
(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)

While a little  hard to detect in the very late frames, Darnell and the women stop walking but the women continue to interact with those hidden figures out of frame. Are they being interviewed by reporters or law enforcement? Obviously, I don't know, but at some point Jacob, Holt and Simmons talked with Deputy C.L. ?Lummie? Lewis of the Dallas County Sheriff's Department. In his supplemental investigation report November 23, 1963 he specifically wrote on page 1 that he talked with these three women.

(https://i.imgur.com/kRyVTg2.png)

James

Bumped.

To break the "Who took this film of Amos Euins" monotony, and because it's another excellent Iacoletti-deflating post by James Hackerott.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Bill Chapman on April 28, 2019, 11:23:14 PM
So do it, already!

Repeating a claim doesn't make it more true.

So who's "we"? No answer?

He, himself, and him
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 29, 2019, 05:09:23 AM
Isn't it funny how everything looks blob-ish to Iacoletti?

No, just blobs.

Isn?t funny how much detail Graves pretends to see in blobs?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 29, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
No, just blobs.

Isn?t funny how much detail Graves pretends to see in blobs?

Iacoletti,

Thank you for admitting that your vision is even worse than it's widely suspected to be.

-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 29, 2019, 04:37:58 PM
Thank you for admitting that your vision is even worse than it's widely suspected to be.

The last refuge of someone driven by pareidolia.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 29, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
Isn't it funny how everything looks blob-ish to Iacoletti?

-- MWT   ;)

    This is the same Group Think that resulted in the Old Guard JFK Research Community committing Boner-After-Boner.  Sit around and talk a subject to death until a gaggle goes bobble head and simply nods in agreement. They then repeatedly rubber stamp that Opinion as being a FACT. The McKinnon/Mumford botched ID that stood for roughly 40 years should be a wake up call. Instead, we currently have lemmings marching toward this same cliff.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 29, 2019, 10:57:35 PM
Dear Battles Royell,

I wrote:

"Isn't it funny how everything looks blob-ish to Iacoletti?"


This is the same Group Think that resulted in the Old Guard JFK Research Community committing Boner-After-Boner.  Sit around and talk a subject to death until a gaggle goes bobble head and simply nods in agreement. They then repeatedly rubber stamp that Opinion as being a FACT. The McKinnon/Mumford botched ID that stood for roughly 40 years should be a wake up call. Instead, we currently have lemmings marching toward this same cliff.

How does your post relate to what I wrote?

-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 30, 2019, 06:04:52 AM
Dear Battles Royell,

Those who have good arguments make them. Those who don?t resort to nicknames and sarcasm.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 30, 2019, 01:46:16 PM
There?s a guy who used to post here who would take every Dealey plaza picture he could find and blow them up and look for any shape or anomaly he could find anywhere and he would circle them and declare that they were ?gunmen?. There were ?gunmen? everywhere: in the bushes by the peristyle, on top of the pergola, and even on the pillar in front of the TSBD. He thought they were ?obvious? too, and that people must be ?blind? not to see them.

You?re a lot like that guy.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 30, 2019, 05:27:38 PM
There?s a guy who used to post here who would take every Dealey plaza picture he could find and blow them up and look for any shape or anomaly he could find anywhere and he would circle them and declare that they were ?gunmen?. There were ?gunmen? everywhere: in the bushes by the peristyle, on top of the pergola, and even on the pillar in front of the TSBD. He thought they were ?obvious? too, and that people must be ?blind? not to see them.

You?re a lot like that guy.

Funny how you had to overly blow-up Calvery's face in Betzner-3 in order to not see her glasses.

LOL

-- MWT   ;)

PS  Didn't your mother ever tell you that back-in-the-day, men wore trousers and women wore dresses, especially while watching a presidential motorcade in late November in Texas?

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 30, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
This is what Tommy has spent hours and hours of time and multiple forum threads obsessing over:

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/towner-blobs.png)

Seriously Tommy, just let your obsession with these 3 people go.  It really has nothing to do with the assassination.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on April 30, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Seriously Tommy, just let your obsession with these 3 people go.  It really has nothing to do with the assassination.

You're absolutely right.

Except for the fact that those three people on the Pergola Patio in the Towner film are the same three people that James Darnell filmed as they were stepping down from said patio (and as they were walking across the grass in the direction of the TSBD), and that, by matching the garments they were wearing in that Towner film with the garments (dark-complected) Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt and Sharron Simmons were wearing in Zapruder and Betzner and Bronson as they were standing next to other, that these three people must be the same people who were photographically captured "by" the Stemmons Sign by Zapruder and Betzner and Bronson during the motorcade, and that, by looking at the faces of those three gals in the recently augmented Darnell clip, we can now say that your Karen Westbrook was "all wet" when she, from behind and 54 years after-the-fact, attempted to identify herself as the blue headscarf-wearing one (in reality Sharon Simmons), and the average-height, strawberry-blond-blond gal standing next to her as Gloria Calvert (sic), and that since strawberry-blond, glasses-free Gloria HOLT isn't big, tall, glasses-wearing Gloria CALVERY, then Westbrook and Calvery must have been standing somewhere else, with their two colleagues Karan Hicks and Sharon Reed (where are they, according to your Karen "All Wet" Westbrook, btw?) and "about halfway between Houston Street and The Triple Underpass, on the north side of Elm Street," and that the four consecutive headscarf-wearing gals in Zapruder are the most likely candidates for that four-woman group, and yep, that big tall one who's wearing the black blouse (or sweater) and the black headscarf next to John Templin in Zapruder (and who can be seen wearing glasses in Betzner-3) is the best candidate for big, tall, stylin' glasses-wearin' Gloria Calvery, and how, lo-and-behold, she can be seen in close proximity to her all-in-white colleague in Couch-Darnell as she's talking with Billy Lovelady (or maybe Joe Molina) about 25 seconds after the assassination.

That's all, you, you, you ... colorblind, weak-sighted NAYSAYER, you.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 30, 2019, 07:24:59 PM
Only 5 small problems with your contrived narrative.

- You haven't demonstrated that Darnell took his footage at or near the same time as your blobby Towner clip

- You haven't actually "matched" anyone's garments -- you've just engaged in a lot of wishful thinking.

- You think your wishful thinking trumps somebody who was there that day.

- You think that repeating the same claims over and over again will somehow make them true.

- You won't ever just let it go.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on April 30, 2019, 08:13:19 PM
This is what Tommy has spent hours and hours of time and multiple forum threads obsessing over:

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/towner-blobs.png)

Seriously Tommy, just let your obsession with these 3 people go.  It really has nothing to do with the assassination.

   I am interested in Who-Is-Who in assassination images as well as their itinerary after the Kill Shot. More important than that is the Time Stamping of assassination images along with Specifically WHO is responsible for having captured said image(s).  It seems Darnell is being given credit for every single assassination image in which the filmer is Unknown/in question. This is not just Wrong, it is flat-out Lazy for JFK Assassination Researchers to do such. Who knows, maybe there was someone or multiple people inside Dealey Plaza capturing images that we do Not know about to this day?  The ID of the Babushka Lady immediately comes to mind and we Know she had a camera of some sort. There were many people capturing images that day, and many of these people were common folk that scare easily. Bill Newman now admits to sleeping with a gun on 11/22/63 after realizing what his family had jumped into with their eyewitness account.  The recent discovery of the Hosty Notes inside the National Archives shows that there is still JFK Assassination Evidence we are unaware of 55+ years after the fact.

                                         - JOHN -
 Nicknames have never bothered me. Anyone resorting to that is short on substance.

 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Duncan MacRae on May 01, 2019, 06:02:06 PM
A reminder, to whom it may concern:

"Posts which contain member directed mocking nicknames towards other members may be deleted. The offender may receive a posting suspension"
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 06, 2019, 09:17:50 AM
You have no freakin' clue how much time it would take Calvery to run from the Tall Woman location to the steps.

Iacoletti,

How long do you think it would have taken you to run from where your "Glasses Woman" "Tall Woman" is standing in Betzner-3 to the TSBD steps, about 50 yards away?

Two minutes?

Three?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on May 06, 2019, 01:51:41 PM
Get a life, Tommy.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 06, 2019, 07:46:53 PM
And again, again, well vetted timing indicative information with multiple puzzle pieces of the situational events as they occurred involving various PersonImages as seen, and also including testimony confirming actions and reactions of various Persons matching Image indications of occurrences during and in the immediate aftermath of the fatal shooting of PresidentKennedy and critical wounding of GovernorConnally, should provide reliable evidence that GloriaCalveryImage reached the TSBD Bldg Elm St entrance stairway at about 20 seconds after said shooting(s).

     We hear from eyewitness after eyewitness immediately after the Kill Shot people were hitting the ground or generally stunned and milling around wondering what they had just witnessed. This oft repeated description of the eyewitnesses inside Dealey Plaza flies in the face of those claiming Calvery Immediately left her motorcade viewing position and made a 20 second Bee Line back to the TSBD and sprinted up the steps to where Ol' Buell could stare her down. I'm not saying this was impossible to have happened, but in the face of what we Know as being Fact, it don't fit. Now, if the currently accepted Time Lines of people we see on JFK Assassination images are incorrect, then the alleged Calvery Time Line could have credibility. 
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 09, 2019, 07:48:25 PM
The testimony/statement regarding positioning, and relative timing, for DPD Motorcycle Patrol Officer, and MotorcadeEscort MarrionBaker, by then on foot after parking his Motorcycle, has to corroborate an approximate 20 second time element for GloriaCalvery to reach the TSBD Stairway, and allows for GloriaCalveryImage to be seen there just ahead of MarrionBakerImage.

Baker, himself, said he spent a few seconds at his motorcycle, looking down the street and listening to his radio, before dashing towards the front steps.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 09, 2019, 08:28:23 PM
The testimony/statement regarding positioning, and relative timing, for DPD Motorcycle Patrol Officer, and MotorcadeEscort MarrionBaker, has to corroborate an approximate 20 second time element for GloriaCalvery to reach the TSBD Stairway, and allows for GloriaCalveryImage to be seen there just ahead of MarrionBakerImage.

    Again. The time stamping of JFK assassination images and the characters contained within them is critical. Time stamping the alleged "IMAGE" of Calvery is also contingent upon the currently accepted Time Stamp of Officer Baker. This current time stamping is a house of cards = one domino dependent on the other in order for Everything/Everybody we see to neatly fit the accepted narrative. This "domino" Faulty time lining also involves the Wiegman Film and the characters contained within it. The Old Guard JFK Research Community for Over 30 years cavalierly accepted that film having been shot "continuously". Time lines of individuals in this film were assigned based on this False "continuous" belief. We Now KNOW the Wiegman Film was Not filmed continuously which renders the time lines that were erroneously assigned to individuals contained within it Wrong. I believe the 3 camera cars and every other vehicle behind those 3 vehicles were at a Dead Stop longer than is currently accepted. This is why guys like Wiegman, Darnell, etc were jumping out of their camera cars. Wiegman jumped out of his camera car, ran down Elm St, meandered up the Knoll, saw SA Lem Johns up there, (Not contained on his film for some reason), films the alleged Hesters up there, ambles down the Knoll arriving at the Officer Hargis Light Pole, films the Newman Family, and Then sees his camera car is STILL Behind him coming down Elm St? Jesse Owens, (google it), could Not have done all of this in the meager time frame assigned to Wiegman and his Camera Car #1 coming down Elm St.  This longer Stop would also explain why Elm St was Wide Open ahead of Camera Car #1, (Wiegman's car), when it eventually did travel down Elm St.  Camera Car #1 could have fired a cannon from its' front bumper and hit Nothing in front of it on Elm St.     
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Larry Trotter on May 09, 2019, 08:33:20 PM
Baker, himself, said he spent a few seconds at his motorcycle, looking down the street and listening to his radio, before dashing towards the front steps.

-- MWT  ;)

I didn't recall reading that, but if so a good reason 20 second GCI to arrive ahead of MBI, and yet for him to still make the timing needed for the SFLRE about 60/90 seconds later. Just simply MyTake.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 09, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
I didn't recall reading that, but if so a good reason 20 second GCI to arrive ahead of MBI, and yet for him to still make the timing needed for the SFLRE about 60/90 seconds later. Just simply MyTake.

     This is the ongoing problem for 55+ years. People simply Accepting whatever it takes to Make-It-Fit the accepted narrative vs relying on Fact(s).
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 09, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
     This is the ongoing problem for 55+ years. People simply Accepting whatever it takes to Make-It-Fit the accepted narrative vs relying on Fact(s).

Why don't you look into it, Royell, and try to prove me wrong?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 09, 2019, 11:00:24 PM
Why don't you look into it, Royell, and try to prove me wrong?

-- MWT   ;)

             FACT 1 - The actual Image is inconclusive.
             FACT 2 - Buell Frazier is Alive and has been telling an ever evolving story for 55+ years. Over these 55+ years he has Not ID'd the Inconclusive Image as being Calvery.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 12:08:52 AM
             FACT 1 - The actual Image is inconclusive.
             FACT 2 - Buell Frazier is Alive and has been telling an ever evolving story for 55+ years. Over these 55+ years he has Not ID'd the Inconclusive Image as being Calvery.

No, Royell.

I was referring to my allegation that Marion Baker took a few seconds to look down the street and to listen to his radio before starting to run towards the front steps, thereby giving tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery plenty of time to run the fifty yards or so to said steps, and to be "caught" on film there by Darnell while Baker was still running towards the steps, some 25 seconds after the assassination.

Why don't you look into it if you don't trust me?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 10, 2019, 04:12:04 PM
No, Royell.

I was referring to my allegation that Marion Baker took a few seconds to look down the street and to listen to his radio before starting to run towards the front steps, thereby giving tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery plenty of time to run the fifty yards or so to said steps, and to be "caught" on film there by Darnell while Baker was still running towards the steps, some 25 seconds after the assassination.

Why don't you look into it if you don't trust me?

-- MWT   ;)

     Until you cite an actual Source for your Claim, there is Nothing to respond to. No source = hearsay/opinion. I took a look at Baker's WC Testimony and what You are claiming is Not in Baker's sworn WC testimony. Baker does mention glancing toward the Triple Underpass. (He makes No mention of listening to his radio). Baker also claims he saw 500 -600 people in the general area in front of the TSBD which we know for a Fact is wildly incorrect.  The problem I have with Officer Baker's WC story is it was Rehearsed Numerous Times with the Warren Comm mouthpiece before being given under oath before the Comm.  Again, this is one of many dominoes which have been painstakingly constructed to fit the overall narrative. Officer Baker did Not just walk up cold and tell his tale to the Warren Comm. He was physically walked through it/spoon fed it Before taking the oath. I do like that You are Now lengthening the currently accepted Time Line. This is a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
     Until you cite an actual Source for your Claim, there is Nothing to respond to. No source = hearsay/opinion. I took a look at Baker's WC Testimony and what You are claiming is Not in Baker's sworn WC testimony. Baker does mention glancing toward the Triple Underpass. (He makes No mention of listening to his radio). Baker also claims he saw 500 -600 people in the general area in front of the TSBD which we know for a Fact is wildly incorrect.  The problem I have with Officer Baker's WC story is it was Rehearsed Numerous Times with the Warren Comm mouthpiece before being given under oath before the Comm.  Again, this is one of many dominoes which have been painstakingly constructed to fit the overall narrative. Officer Baker did Not just walk up cold and tell his tale to the Warren Comm. He was physically walked through it/spoon fed it Before taking the oath. I do like that You are Now lengthening the currently accepted Time Line. This is a step in the right direction.

What's the "currently accepted timeline" regarding how long after the final shot Baker began sprinting towards the TSBD steps?

20 seconds?

More?

Less?

What, exactly?

--  MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 06:27:45 PM
Regardless, I ran the 40-yard dash in 4.7 seconds (and the 100-yard dash in 10.8 seconds) in high school, and I was no speed merchant.

Big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery was only about 50 yards from the steps, and should have been able to get there in fifteen seconds or so, well before Darnell started filming that scene.

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 10, 2019, 08:04:47 PM
So, do we have a claim that then Dallas PD MotorcyclePatrolOfficer, JFK MotorcadeEscort, future resident of Buffalo, TX, now deceased, MarrionLewisBaker, lied in his testimony about his experience(s) during and after the JFK Sr Assassination and JBC Jr Critical Wounding?

I do not recognize any valid reasong for claiming that OfficerBaker's claim of seeing 500-600 people in the general area in front of the TSBD to be a Fact that we know to be wildly incorrect. Whoever the we are, me aren't.
 >:(

    The Tina Towner film shows the JFK Limo making the complete turn from Houston onto and down Elm St. There are not even 100 people in the area in front of the TSBD. Stop horsing around and try addressing the Facts surrounding this case.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 10, 2019, 08:05:47 PM
Regardless, I ran the 40-yard dash in 4.7 seconds (and the 100-yard dash in 10.8 seconds) in high school, and I was no speed merchant.

Big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery was only about 50 yards from the steps, and should have been able to get there in fifteen seconds or so, well before Darnell started filming that scene.

-- MWT   ;)

      Again, Time Line issues abound.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 10, 2019, 08:30:40 PM
I stand by my Reply as posted. And, my participation in this conversation is complete.

    Of course You are done. The Towner Film exposes your short comings with regard to your knowledge of the Evidence surrounding this case. Please do some of your own research before popping off. It will help you avoid having to walk away with your head down.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 09:23:49 PM
      Again, Time Line issues abound.

Only if you're a tinfoil hat-wearing photo and film "alterationist".

-- MWT   ;)

PS  Where is Sitzman and/or Zapruder in the Paschall film, btw?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on May 10, 2019, 09:51:35 PM
Only if you're a tinfoil hat-wearing photo and film "alterationist".

-- MWT   ;)

PS  Where is Sitzman and/or Zapruder in the Paschall film, btw?

    Do Not get your feelings hurt and lash out. That achieves nothing. Do some serious research and then we can have a legit conversation.
   
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Duncan MacRae on May 10, 2019, 09:54:32 PM
Where is Sitzman and/or Zapruder in the Paschall film, btw?

They are where they have always been in the Paschall film.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/ZapSitz.gif)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 10:00:31 PM
They are where they have always been in the Paschall film.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/ZapSitz.gif)

Which of those people are Sitzman and Zapruder?

(Don't ask Iacoletti. They be little bloblets to him.)

Different question: Who's the person wearing red?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Larry Trotter on May 10, 2019, 10:14:42 PM
     Until you cite an actual Source for your Claim, there is Nothing to respond to. No source = hearsay/opinion. I took a look at Baker's WC Testimony and what You are claiming is Not in Baker's sworn WC testimony. Baker does mention glancing toward the Triple Underpass. (He makes No mention of listening to his radio). Baker also claims he saw 500 -600 people in the general area in front of the TSBD which we know for a Fact is wildly incorrect.  The problem I have with Officer Baker's WC story is it was Rehearsed Numerous Times with the Warren Comm mouthpiece before being given under oath before the Comm.  Again, this is one of many dominoes which have been painstakingly constructed to fit the overall narrative. Officer Baker did Not just walk up cold and tell his tale to the Warren Comm. He was physically walked through it/spoon fed it Before taking the oath. I do like that You are Now lengthening the currently accepted Time Line. This is a step in the right direction.

So, do we have a claim that then Dallas PD MotorcyclePatrolOfficer, JFK MotorcadeEscort, future resident of Buffalo, TX, now deceased, MarrionLewisBaker, lied in his testimony about his experience(s) during and after the JFK Sr Assassination and JBC Jr Critical Wounding?

I do not recognize any valid reasong for claiming that OfficerBaker's claim of seeing 500-600 people in the general area in front of the TSBD to be a Fact that we know to be wildly incorrect. Whoever the we are, me aren't.
 >:(

    The Tina Towner film shows the JFK Limo making the complete turn from Houston onto and down Elm St. There are not even 100 people in the area in front of the TSBD. Stop horsing around and try addressing the Facts surrounding this case.

I stand by my Reply as posted. And, my participation in this conversation is complete.

    Of course You are done. The Towner Film exposes your short comings with regard to your knowledge of the Evidence surrounding this case. Please do some of your own research before popping off. It will help you avoid having to walk away with your head down.

Strictly as a reminder, I was discussing OfficerBaker's "general area" count that you stated was "wildly incorrect", not what is seen on the corner in the TownerFilm. In any event, don't be concerned about my head until you locate your own, and locate a place to store your insults.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 10, 2019, 10:56:27 PM

Ladies and Gentleman (and John Iacoletti, who apparently doesn't know how to tell them apart), I give you, from left to right:

Self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob,  and her two Texas School Book Depository colleagues -- Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons, the same three women who were "captured" standing by the Stemmons Sign in the Zapruder film.

(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)


-- MWT   ;)

Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Larry Trotter on May 11, 2019, 07:52:58 PM
Ladies and Gentleman (and John Iacoletti, who apparently doesn't know how to tell them apart), I give you, from left to right:

Self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob,  and her two Texas School Book Depository colleagues -- Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons, the same three women who were "captured" standing by the Stemmons Sign in the Zapruder film.

(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)


-- MWT   ;)

I have to say Mr Graves, considering the available corroborating indicative information relative to the identification of StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharonSimmons as the persons representing said three LadyImages, any dispute should have corroborating indicative information relative to any alternate image identity in order to be credible.

Just offering MyTake, as I acknowledge that you do not need my help with said subject.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 12, 2019, 12:08:59 AM
I have to say Mr Graves, considering the available corroborating indicative information relative to the identification of StellaJacob, GloriaHolt, and SharonSimmons as the persons representing said three LadyImages, any dispute should have corroborating indicative information relative to any alternate image identity in order to be credible.

Just offering MyTake, as I acknowledge that you do not need my help with said subject.

Larry,

No, but believe it or not I do appreciate your moral support.

You're right, of course. Iacoletti's unwillingness or inability to connect the dots that have been laid out for him and explained to him ad nauseam, and to instead irrationally rely on the corrupted-by-time, obviously misplaced memories of Westbrook (whose putative alter ego "Karen Westbrook" is conveniently wearing a hair-hiding headscarf and a figure-hiding raincoat in the Z-film), from behind and 54 years after-the-fact, is ?ber-lame, especially in Iacoletti's continuing glaring refusal to offer any corroborating evidence that the gal in the middle of the ZapruderTrio is real-deal tall, large, dark red-haired Gloria Calvery.

-- MWT  :)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Robin Unger on May 18, 2019, 01:34:32 AM
Towner GIF

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oJAH7w2nK6c/W64xZN5PTYI/AAAAAAAACaE/VGiAC_fLrDoCNKqFjvEYTDe4pRnSSrHdgCLcBGAs/s1600/towmer.gif)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Robin Unger on May 18, 2019, 01:40:10 AM
Nice post James Hackerott  Thumb1:
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 19, 2019, 09:07:04 PM
Nice post James Hackerott  Thumb1:

Thanks, Robin!

PS  -- Do you agree with me that the three people on the Pergola Patio are:

1) gasp ...Women?

2) And ... gasp ...that they are the same three women whom Karen Westbrook, in 2017, "identified" in the Zapruder film as "probably Carol Reed, Gloria Cavery, and me, Karen Westbrook!"?

-- MWT  :)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on June 08, 2019, 10:08:48 PM


     Nobody knows for a Fact that the man running across the Knoll is Darnell. You are assuming the 3 Women did Not Stop while walking across the Knoll. Foolish assumption. To this point, No One has been able to explain Why there is a time gap between the film snippet showing the 3 Women at the Top of the Knoll vs the film snippet showing them at the Bottom of the Knoll. 2 Different people filming the 3 Women with different cameras/film would explain the Time Gap between the 2 snippets + the Definition difference between the 2 film snippets.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 08, 2019, 10:29:08 PM

     Nobody knows for a Fact that the man running across the Knoll is Darnell. You are assuming the 3 Women did Not Stop while walking across the Knoll. Foolish assumption. To this point, No One has been able to explain Why there is a time gap between the film snippet showing the 3 Women at the Top of the Knoll vs the film snippet showing them at the Bottom of the Knoll. 2 Different people filming the 3 Women with different cameras/film would explain the Time Gap between the 2 snippets + the Definition difference between the 2 film snippets.

Storing,

What makes you think the three women (Jacob, Holt and Simmons) are "at the Bottom of the Knoll" in either of those two "snippets"?

-- MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on June 08, 2019, 10:56:10 PM
Storing,

What makes you think the three women (Jacob, Holt and Simmons) are "at the Bottom of the Knoll" in either of those two "snippets"?

-- MWT   ;)

   Without getting into your covert ID Quest, the length of the wall extending Down from the Pergola Shelter behind the 3 Women = a rough idea as to their location on the Knoll.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 08, 2019, 11:35:53 PM
   Without getting into your covert ID Quest, the length of the wall extending Down from the Pergola Shelter behind the 3 Women = a rough idea as to their location on the Knoll.

Storing,

Do you believe the three women we're talking about were on or near the Elm Street sidewalk in the second "snippet"?

If so, then what is the woman on the right stepping down from?

-- MWT   :)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on June 09, 2019, 03:24:17 AM
Storing,

Do you believe the three women we're talking about were on or near the Elm Street sidewalk in the second "snippet"?

If so, then what is the woman on the right stepping down from?

-- MWT   :)

      I believe You are confusing the 2 film snippets of the 3 Women. In chronological order the "2nd Snippet" would be the latter film footage with "MSNBC" printed on it. In that 2nd snippet you can see the wall that extends Down from the Pergola Shelter to Elm St. The snippet that You mentioned showing, "the woman on the right stepping down" would be the "1st Snippet" which I believe was filmed when the 3 Women were at the Top of the Knoll and very close to/on the the concrete steps in front of the Pergola. There is a Not-Filmed Time Gap between the 1st and the 2nd snippets. Snippet #1 shows the 3 women near/on the concrete steps close to the Pergola at the Top of the Knoll. Snippet #2 "MSNBC" suddenly shows the 3 Women at the Bottom of the Knoll. I believe the reason for this Not-Filmed Time Gap between the 2 snippets is due to their being filmed by 2 different camera MEN. One of the Camera MEN was positioned at the Top of the Knoll and filmed the 3 Women Up there.  He Stopped his filming as the 3 Women began heading Down the Knoll toward Elm ST.  (After the woman on the (R) "stepped down" from the concrete step). The 2nd cameraman Began his filming at the point the 3 Women were close to/at the bottom of the Knoll. 2 Camera Men filming these 3 Women at different points in time explains the Not-Filmed Time Gap BETWEEN Snippet #1 and Snippet #2. The disparity in the Visual Definition between these 2 film snippets is also explained by 2 Camera Men filming with 2 different cameras/film.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 09, 2019, 10:02:40 AM
      I believe You are confusing the 2 film snippets of the 3 Women. In chronological order the "2nd Snippet" would be the latter film footage with "MSNBC" printed on it. In that 2nd snippet you can see the wall that extends Down from the Pergola Shelter to Elm St. The snippet that You mentioned showing, "the woman on the right stepping down" would be the "1st Snippet" which I believe was filmed when the 3 Women were at the Top of the Knoll and very close to/on the the concrete steps in front of the Pergola. There is a Not-Filmed Time Gap between the 1st and the 2nd snippets. Snippet #1 shows the 3 women near/on the concrete steps close to the Pergola at the Top of the Knoll. Snippet #2 "MSNBC" suddenly shows the 3 Women at the Bottom of the Knoll. I believe the reason for this Not-Filmed Time Gap between the 2 snippets is due to their being filmed by 2 different camera MEN. One of the Camera MEN was positioned at the Top of the Knoll and filmed the 3 Women Up there.  He Stopped his filming as the 3 Women began heading Down the Knoll toward Elm ST.  (After the woman on the (R) "stepped down" from the concrete step). The 2nd cameraman Began his filming at the point the 3 Women were close to/at the bottom of the Knoll. 2 Camera Men filming these 3 Women at different points in time explains the Not-Filmed Time Gap BETWEEN Snippet #1 and Snippet #2. The disparity in the Visual Definition between these 2 film snippets is also explained by 2 Camera Men filming with 2 different cameras/film.

In the clip that James shared with us recently (the one in which the woman on the left is gesturing with her hands and rolling her eyed eyes skyward) where do you believe those three women are walking at the moment:

1)  across the Pergola Patio

2)  across the grass after having left the patio

3) or neither?

Edit:  What makes you think the women are "at the bottom of the knoll in the second clip (the one James provided to us recently), and not on the grass higher up?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on June 09, 2019, 02:41:12 PM
In the clip that James shared with us recently (the one in which the woman on the left is gesturing with her hands and rolling her eyed eyes skyward) where do you believe those three women are walking at the moment:

1)  across the Pergola Patio

2)  across the grass after having left the patio

3) or neither?

Edit:  What makes you think the women are "at the bottom of the knoll in the second clip (the one James provided to us recently), and not on the grass higher up?

    The clip/snippet supplied by James is also referred to as the "MSNBC" snippet due to that Logo being placed in the bottom (R) corner of the footage. That same clip/snippet is also referred to as Snippet #2 due to it chronologically having occurred After Snippet #1. I think Snippet #2 was filmed close to/at the Bottom of the Knoll due to seeing in the background:(1) the Pergola Shelter closest to the TSBD, (2) the concrete abutment which The Steps run Down from (the same Steps that the Woman on the (R) steps Down from at the end of Snippet #1), (3) the concrete Wall extending Down to Elm St from that same Pergola Shelter, (4) the Hedges/Foliage which hug that same Wall all the way Down to Elm St, and (5) People using the Walkway which runs parallel to the Wall extending Down to Elm St. ALL of this is Now behind the 3 Women in the "MSNBC" snippet #2 supplied by James. Remember, the Low Grade Definition of Snippet #1 shows the Woman on the (R) stepping Down from The Steps which are close to the Pergola at the Top of the Knoll. In the clip/snippet supplied by James, those Steps at the Top portion of the Knoll is well to the Rear the 3 Women. With Snippet #1 showing the woman on the (R) stepping down from the Steps, and the James snippet/#2 suddenly showing the 3 women Now close to/at the bottom of the Knoll, there is obviously an Un-Filmed Time Gap in the journey of these 3 women as they traveled Down the Knoll. I think the reason for this Un-Filmed Time Gap is 2 different camera men filmed each of these snippets. Each camera man was filming at a different point in time and capturing a different portion of the journey the 3 Women took Down the Knoll. The Definition Difference we see in the footage of these 2 Snippets further supports this idea.   
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on June 10, 2019, 11:02:55 AM
If you’re in Dallas go to the Research Room in the TSBD and ask to see the complete Darnell film.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on June 11, 2019, 12:45:59 AM
I wish I had the complete film. I’ll be able to see it in 10 years, if health permits.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on June 11, 2019, 04:30:50 AM
    If the technology used by Oliver Stone actually cleaned up the alleged Darnell snippet he used in "JFK", why is this same technology Not currently being used on ALL the film Darnell shot, as well as other fuzzy/low definition film footage that was shot that day? There is a Significant definition difference between ALL the fuzzy Darnell footage we have seen thus far vs that 3 Women snippet from "JFK" the movie. The recently discovered Darnell snippet which showed both Press Buses on Houston St and and the Pool area across from the TSBD would certainly be interesting to see in the same clarity with which we are seeing the 3 Women on the Knoll. Likewise, vastly improving the clarity of images showing the Steps in front of the TSBD would help resolve many questions attached to that area.   
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 12, 2019, 06:37:37 PM

Behold, I give you (from left to right) Westbrook's "Uhh ... Probably Carol Reed, Definitely Gloria Calvery, and Me, Karen Westbrook!"

LOL

(https://i.imgur.com/1yviAtz.gif)

-- MWT   ;)

Bumped, in a probably futile attempt to get this thread back on track.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 20, 2019, 12:11:49 AM
The alleged identities of the women in the Darnell clip [Jacob, Holt and Simmons] tell you exactly nothing about who is who in Zapruder, who "tall woman" is, or where Oswald was at the time of the shots.

Iacoletti,

I does to a non-agended-up, reasonable person with reasonably good eyesight, based on his or her own probability-based and made-sense-of "life experiences".

D'oh

I guess nerdish geeks tend to miss out on that sort of thing, huh?

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 20, 2019, 12:23:30 AM
I does to a non-agended-up, reasonable person with reasonably good eyesight, based on his or her own probability-based and made-sense-of "life experiences".

That's your evidence?  "Life experiences".  LOL.

How about Karen Westbrook's life experience of actually being there that day?

You're a hoot.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on June 20, 2019, 07:25:45 AM
How about Karen Westbrook's life experience of actually being there that day?

Iacoletti, you poor misguided thing, you.

Taking into consideration:

1) The very high likelihood that the three gals filmed by Darnell as they stepped down from the Pergola Patio are the same three gals who were filmed walking towards the edge of the Pergola Patio by Tina Towner's father a few minutes after the assassination

2) The very high likelihood, based on normal human visual observation, that the three gals in the Towner film are the same three gals who were standing near the Stemmons Sign in Zapruder (dark brown jacket and white skirt on the black-haired gal on the left in both instances, blondish hair and dark raincoat or long-sleeved full-length dress on the gal next to her, and light-blue headscarf and dark raincoat or long-sleeved full-length dress on the gal next to her

3) the fact that the gal Westbrook "identified" as herself in the Zapruder film was wearing a hair-hiding (light-blue) headscarf and a figure-hiding (dark-colored) raincoat

4) The fact that Westbrook made said "identification" 54 years after-the-fact and from behind

Leads the "reasonable man" to conclude that your beloved Karen Westbrook Pillbox is full of beans.

Period.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 25, 2019, 07:01:32 PM
(https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/twitter/185/yawning-face_1f971.png)

"high likelihood" defined as Thomas Graves' wild-ass guesses.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on September 30, 2019, 11:03:37 PM
I was hoping that the ladies of a specific group in the Z-film would turn their head at one point. And they did. The results are not great, though. One of the ladies has lots of hair like Mrs. Westbrook had. I'll try later to find a better image.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0NpPSfQp/Untitled-3.jpg)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on October 01, 2019, 03:36:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVwHP5qx/Untitled-4.jpg)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 01, 2019, 09:40:56 PM
Not your/ThomasGraves' "wild ass guesses", but high likelihood of identity determined by open minded, fact seeking research and/or research studies.

Thanks for the moral support, Larry!

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 01, 2019, 09:47:50 PM
I was hoping that the ladies of a specific group in the Z-film would turn their head at one point. And they did. The results are not great, though. One of the ladies has lots of hair like Mrs. Westbrook had. I'll try later to find a better image.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0NpPSfQp/Untitled-3.jpg)

Great work, Denis.

Question:  Do you think it's fair to say that the woman to her left (tall, dark-haired Karen Westbrook, imho) is wearing a very light-blue colored headscarf (which might explain Westbrook's confusing Sharon Simmons' darker blue headscarf for her own, from behind, and 54 years after-the-fact)? 

(Especially visible in the top frame you posted.)

--  MWT   ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Denis Morissette on October 01, 2019, 10:48:12 PM
Great work, Denis.

Question:  Do you think it's fair to say that the woman to her left (tall, dark-haired Karen Westbrook, imho) is wearing a very light-blue colored headscarf (which might explain Westbrook's confusing Sharon Simmons' darker blue headscarf for her own, from behind, and 54 years after-the-fact)? 

(Especially visible in the top frame you posted.)

--  MWT   ;)

It totally makes sense.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 02, 2019, 02:48:22 PM
“Very light blue”. LOL.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 02, 2019, 10:25:33 PM
“Very light blue”. LOL.

Well, John, it certainly isn't a medium blue, like that of Sharron Simmons, the gal standing next to the Stemmons sign in Zapruder.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 05, 2019, 05:44:24 AM
Well, John, it certainly isn't a medium blue, like that of Sharron Simmons, the gal standing next to the Stemmons sign in Zapruder.

No such person.

And the woman (what the hell is a “gal”?) who appears to be next to the sign in Zapruder is Karen Westbrook.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 05, 2019, 06:42:08 AM
No such person.

And the woman (what the hell is a “gal”?) who appears to be next to the sign in Zapruder is Karen Westbrook.

John,

You and Westbrook have a lot of damn gall to call the medium-blue-headscarf-wearing gal "Karen Westbrook," when in reality she's Sharon Simmons, work colleague of Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Holt.

Tell me this, Mister Rational -- If that's Westbrook and if the gal to her immediate left is Gloria Calvery, and if the gal to her left is " uhh ... probably Carol Reed," then where the hell are Jacob, Holt and Simmons, all three of whom said they were watching the motorcade together, about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass?

And for that matter, seein' as how the gal on the left can't possibly be light-complected Reed, where the hell is she and Karan Hicks?

Partial answer: Hicks is running down Elm Extension, towards the TSBD, in Couch-Darnell ...

D'oh

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on October 05, 2019, 03:37:21 PM
John,

You and Westbrook have a lot of damn gall to call the medium-blue-headscarf-wearing gal "Karen Westbrook," when in reality she's Sharon Simmons, work colleague of Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Holt.

Tell me this, Mister Rational -- If that's Westbrook and if the gal to her immediate left is Gloria Calvery, and if the gal to her left is " uhh ... probably Carol Reed," then where the hell are Jacob, Holt and Simmons, all three of whom said they were watching the motorcade together, about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass?

And for that matter, seein' as how the gal on the left can't possibly be light-complected Reed, where the hell is she and Karan Hicks?

Partial answer: Hicks is running down Elm Extension, towards the TSBD, in Couch-Darnell ...

D'oh

-- MWT  ;)

    Kindly help me out here.  The Elm Extension runs alongside/parallel to the front of the TSBD. Anyone/Hicks "running Down Elm Extension" in either direction can Not be running "TOWARDS the TSBD" as you state above. Please clarify what you are getting at.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 07, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
You and Westbrook have a lot of damn gall to call the medium-blue-headscarf-wearing gal "Karen Westbrook," when in reality she's Sharon Simmons, work colleague of Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Holt.

You have a lot of damn gall to call the blue-headscarf-wearing woman "Sharon Simmons," when in reality she's Karen Westbrook.

You also have a lot of damn gall referring to women as “gals”.

Quote
Tell me this, Mister Rational -- If that's Westbrook and if the gal to her immediate left is Gloria Calvery, and if the gal to her left is " uhh ... probably Carol Reed," then where the hell are Jacob, Holt and Simmons, all three of whom said they were watching the motorcade together, about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass?

I could make up names and assign them to blobs like you do, but I’m too honest.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 08, 2019, 07:28:00 AM
    Kindly help me out here.  The Elm Extension runs alongside/parallel to the front of the TSBD. Anyone/Hicks "running Down Elm Extension" in either direction can Not be running "TOWARDS the TSBD" as you state above. Please clarify what you are getting at.

Storing,

Funny that you're the first person to complain about that during the five years or so "researchers" have been talking about the people in the synchronized Couch-Darnell clips.

How about "the gal (Karan Hicks) running from left-to-right on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell"?

That work for you?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Should I have said, "running towards the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street," instead?
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Thomas Graves on October 08, 2019, 07:43:19 AM
You have a lot of damn gall to call the blue-headscarf-wearing woman "Sharon Simmons," when in reality she's Karen Westbrook.

You also have a lot of damn gall referring to women as “gals”.

I could make up names and assign them to blobs like you do, but I’m too honest.

John,

Do you think I "made up" the names of Texas School Book Company employees Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons?

Blobs?  What blobs? 

(You really should stop performing that nasty ritual in the garden every night.)

John Iacoletti:  "I'm honest".

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: Royell Storing on October 08, 2019, 03:25:49 PM
Storing,

Funny that you're the first person to complain about that during the five years or so "researchers" have been talking about the people in the synchronized Couch-Darnell clips.

How about "the gal (Karan Hicks) running from left-to-right on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell"?

That work for you?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Should I have said, "running towards the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street," instead?

     Your defensive hostility is unwarranted. Most of us come to this forum in the hopes of gathering New Information and exploring JFK assassination concepts we are unfamiliar with.  Sorry I bothered You.
Title: Re: More Darnell Film of the Three Young Women
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 08, 2019, 11:37:54 PM
Do you think I "made up" the names of Texas School Book Company employees Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons?

Blobs?  What blobs? 

The blobs you keep assigning names to, like you know for a fact who they are.