JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Tom Scully on April 14, 2019, 05:17:21 AM

Title: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 14, 2019, 05:17:21 AM
Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm

Mr. BALL - And give us as much help as you can?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What is your---you have given us your address, haven't you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me something, briefly, about your past life? Where you were born and what your education was and what your occupation has been?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I was born in the country. Town of about 12 miles from Corsicanna, Tex. My father was a doctor down there, and I was a second child; I have a brother older than I am. And then I moved to Ennis, and then come to Dallas and lived here until I was a little girl, 4 or 5 years old, then I went back down to Ennis and my father practiced medicine in Ennis, Tex., and then about---I married then when I was 17, and then I moved around quite a little while I was married, but-and then my husband and I, we had trouble, and I divorced him in-oh, about in 1925, and I raised my two children by myself, and I have been in the place where I live 24 years, and over on the back,

I was--I have been here 43 years in the neighborhood, and I raised both of my boys, and they are grown.
Mr. BALL - Your occupation has been that of a housewife?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes. Well, I had rented rooms, but I had some money my father had given me. I had some money from him.
Mr. BALL - Your present address, you rent rooms, do you? ....

Father:
Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/103030467/john-warren-germany
Dr John Warren Germany
BIRTH   22 Apr 1868
Limestone County, Texas, USA
DEATH   23 Sep 1938 (aged 70)
Ennis, Ellis County, Texas, USA

....Surviving are his wife, a daughter Mrs. Mary Bledsoe, Dallas; two sons, Porter Germany, Houston, and Peter Germany, Ennis; two grandsons, four brothers, and three sisters.

Half-brother:
Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149161859/james-walter-germany
James Walter ?Pete? Germany
BIRTH   17 Oct 1921
Ellis County, Texas, USA
DEATH   20 Sep 1996 (aged 74)
Napa County, California, USA....

Brother:
Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193240658/porter-lee-germany

Porter Lee Germany
BIRTH   26 Mar 1893
Texas, USA
DEATH   15 Nov 1977 (aged 84)
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 14, 2019, 05:20:20 AM
Good catch, Tom.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Bill Chapman on April 14, 2019, 08:39:34 PM
@Newbies: (Psst... she saw Oswald on the bus)

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe, w/f 67, 621 N. Marsalis, Dallas, Texas, Telephone WH2-1985 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Last Friday, November 22, 1963, I went downtown to see the President. I stood on Main Street just across the street from Titche's until the parade passed by. The I walked over to Elm Street and caught a bus to go home. The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus. The traffic was heavy and it took quite sometime [sic] to travel two or three blocks. During that time someone made the statement that the President had been shot and while the bus was stopped due to the heavy traffic, Oswald got off the bus and I didn't see him again. I know this man was Lee Oswald because he lived in my home from October 7, 1963 to October 14, 1963.

/s/ Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 23rd DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 15, 2019, 02:06:00 AM
First cousin of Mary Germany Bledsoe and R.D. Matthews:
Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/87462676/jewell-rawlston-germany
Jewell Rawlston ?Jake? Germany, Jr
Birth  Lubbock, Lubbock County, Texas, USA
Death  23 Feb 1996
Dalzell, Sumter County, South Carolina, USA
?..
December, 1919
(http://jfkforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BledsoeUncleWedToRDMatthewAuntAdelaideCrop.jpg)

In 1930, RD Matthews was residing with his mother Grace and her sister Adelaide, mother of Jewell R Germany, Jr. and...
aunt by marriage, of Mary Germany Bledsoe.
(http://jfkforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census-768x183.jpg)

D91 was the alleged calendar page Oswald wrote on, as sold by Porter Bledsoe. The handwriting was described as too limited for comparison.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58987&relPageId=60&search=bledsoe_and%20hidell
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 15, 2019, 04:03:58 AM
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@Newbies: (Psst... she saw Oswald on the bus)

Bledsoe also saw a picture of his baby before she was even born.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Bill Chapman on April 15, 2019, 05:07:59 AM
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Bledsoe also saw a picture of his baby before she was even born.

You continue to grasp at straws

That was June Oswald she saw, born in Feb 1962
19-month-old children are usually considered to be babies; especially first-born.
Some aren't even talking by that age. In any case, Bledsoe saw her as a baby in the picture Oswald showed her, and that's what counts.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 15, 2019, 05:15:00 AM
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You continue to grasp at straws

That was June Oswald she saw, born in Feb 1962
19-month-old children are usually considered to be babies; especially first-born.
Some aren't even talking by that age.

In any case, Bledsoe saw her as a baby in the picture Oswald showed her, and that's what counts.

 :D :D :D

Nice try, Chapman.

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And so, that give me a lead, something to talk about, and I said, "Well, what kind of work do you do? "Oh, I do electronics," he said, and I said, "Well, there is some good jobs because you are young, and you can get a good job a young man like you."
And then went on. Then something about him being in the Marines, and I said, "Well, that is wonderful. My son was in the Navy." And talking about him, you know, just getting to know him, and--but, "here is a picture of my wife, and picture of the girl, and the baby."
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Bill Chapman on April 15, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
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:D :D :D

Nice try, Chapman.

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And so, that give me a lead, something to talk about, and I said, "Well, what kind of work do you do? "Oh, I do electronics," he said, and I said, "Well, there is some good jobs because you are young, and you can get a good job a young man like you."
And then went on. Then something about him being in the Marines, and I said, "Well, that is wonderful. My son was in the Navy." And talking about him, you know, just getting to know him, and--but, "here is a picture of my wife, and picture of the girl, and the baby."

My analysis is based on a more accurate Bledsoe statement, given the fact that Rachel had yet to be born:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
Bledsoe: And then we got inside the house and he had a thing where this---pictures of his wife and baby, and he said he was in the Marine Corps, and I tried to be nice.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 15, 2019, 07:59:30 PM
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My analysis is based on a more accurate Bledsoe statement, given the fact that Rachel had yet to be born:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
Bledsoe: And then we got inside the house and he had a thing where this---pictures of his wife and baby, and he said he was in the Marine Corps, and I tried to be nice.

a more accurate Bledsoe statement

If Bledsoe gave "more accurate" statements, she also must have given less accurate statements, right?

Wait? Doesn't that, by definition, make her an unreliable witness?
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 15, 2019, 08:17:14 PM
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My analysis is based on a more accurate Bledsoe statement, given the fact that Rachel had yet to be born:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
Bledsoe: And then we got inside the house and he had a thing where this---pictures of his wife and baby, and he said he was in the Marine Corps, and I tried to be nice.

Chapman, who is your intended audience? Mrs. Bledsoe's first cousin Jake Germany, Jr. was first cousin of notorious  Dallas / Las Vegas enforcer and
alleged hit man Russell Douglas Matthews, associated with Jack Ruby through organized crime activity.

Dallas SAIC Sorrels had current access to SS protective research in the wake of recent, fatal presidential visit to Dallas. Consider that he had
access to much of the following detail....but not only permitted Mrs. Bledsoe to testify, anyway. In fact, he encouraged her!

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
?...
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I thought, "Well, he is gone," and forgot it.
Mr. BALL - But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I forget what I have to say.
Mr. BALL - When did you make those notes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - What day did I make them?
Miss DOUTHIT - When Mr. Sorrels and I were talking about her going to Washington, he made the suggestion that she put all the things down on paper because she might forget something, and I said, "Mary, you put everything on a piece of paper so that you can remember it and you won't forget anything, you know, what happened," and that's when she started making notes.
Mr. BALL - You have made the notes in the last week?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT - At my suggestion and Mr. Sorrels.
Mr. BALL - You didn't make any notes during the week he was there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't pay any attention to him. ?.

Her father, Dr. John W Germany, married the first cousin of Mary Bledsoe's ex, 24 years Dr. Germany's junior.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/132359761/icie-elizabeth-germany
Icie Elizabeth Bledsoe Germany born 12 Aug,, 1892

Mary as a witness is confused, unpersuasive exactly where you discern clear meaning?

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
?Mr. JENNER - And--when and if he obtained employment?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - And so, that give me a lead, something to talk about, and I said, "Well, what kind of work do you do? "Oh, I do electronics," he said, and I said, "Well, there is some good jobs because you are young, and you can get a good job a young man like you."
And then went on. Then something about him being in the Marines, and I said, "Well, that is wonderful. My son was in the Navy." And talking about him, you know, just getting to know him, and--but, "here is a picture of my wife, and picture of the girl, and the baby." And I said, "Oh, she has got a baby, hasn't she?" And he said, "Yes."
And everything he said, I had to pull it out of him to talk about something for him to say what it was.
Mr. JENNER - But, he volunteered the picture of his wife and child?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; he did that. Showed me that picture.
Mr. JENNER - Was that an ordinary snapshot picture? ...


Quote
https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/tn-chestnutridgecousins@rootsweb.com/thread/31425012/

28. James Eulys BLEDSOE (Marion Fletcher, John Wiseman, Aaron,
Jacob, Aaron, Abraham, George) was born on 23 Sep 1891 in Petersburg,
Lincoln Co., TN. He died on 20 Feb 1993 in El Paso, TX.

He was slim, 5'll" tall, and elegant with auburn hair and green
eyes. He moved from TN with his family to TX
around 1910. He divorced his first wife because while he travelled
in his job for Southern Pacific Railroad, she
played around and got pregnant. He gave the child his name, but the
marriage was over. Died of a stroke.

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
?I married then when I was 17, and then I moved around quite a little while I was married, but-and then my husband and I, we had trouble, and I divorced him in-oh, about in 1925, and I raised my two children by myself, and I have been in the place where I live 24 years, and over on the back, I was--I have been here 43 years in the neighborhood, and I raised both of my boys, and they are grown. ?.

James married (1) Mary Esther GERMANY on 7 Oct 1913. The marriage
ended in divorce.Mary was born in 1896 in Chatfield, TX.

They had the following children:

+ 42 M i. James Eulys "Dick" BLEDSOE Jr. was born on
28 Aug 1914. He died about 1980.
43 M ii. Porter BLEDSOE was born about 1925.

He is a child of another man, not James Eulys BLEDSOE.

James married (2) Neta Luceale THOMASON on 23 Sep 1933. Neta was
born on 23 May 1908 in Clovis, NM. She died ?.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Bill Chapman on April 15, 2019, 09:30:06 PM
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Chapman, who is your intended audience? Mrs. Bledsoe's first cousin Jake Germany, Jr. was first cousin of notorious  Dallas / Las Vegas enforcer and
alleged hit man Russell Douglas Matthews, associated with Jack Ruby through organized crime activity.

Dallas SAIC Sorrels had current access to SS protective research in the wake of recent, fatal presidential visit to Dallas. Consider that he had
access to much of the following detail....but not only permitted Mrs. Bledsoe to testify, anyway. In fact, he encouraged her!
 
Her father, Dr. John W Germany, married the first cousin of Mary Bledsoe's ex, 24 years Dr. Germany's junior.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/132359761/icie-elizabeth-germany
Icie Elizabeth Bledsoe Germany born 12 Aug,, 1892

Mary as a witness is confused, unpersuasive exactly where you discern clear meaning?


James married (1) Mary Esther GERMANY on 7 Oct 1913. The marriage
ended in divorce.Mary was born in 1896 in Chatfield, TX.

They had the following children:

+ 42 M i. James Eulys "Dick" BLEDSOE Jr. was born on
28 Aug 1914. He died about 1980.
43 M ii. Porter BLEDSOE was born about 1925.

He is a child of another man, not James Eulys BLEDSOE.

James married (2) Neta Luceale THOMASON on 23 Sep 1933. Neta was
born on 23 May 1908 in Clovis, NM. She died ?.

My intended audience is John I. Why are you wasting bandwidth when in fact Bledsoe saw Oswald on the bus (affidavit)
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Louis Earl on April 15, 2019, 09:41:55 PM
"The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus."

Where is Murphy Street? 
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 15, 2019, 10:05:10 PM
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My intended audience is John I. Why are you wasting bandwidth when in fact Bledsoe saw Oswald on the bus (affidavit)

in fact Bledsoe saw Oswald on the bus

That's only a "fact" when you believe and rely on an unreliable witness.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Rob Caprio on April 15, 2019, 10:23:35 PM
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@Newbies: (Psst... she saw Oswald on the bus)


There is no evidence in the 26 volumes that supports the claim that LHO stayed at Bledsoe's boarding house. If you disagree then cite it.

There is a document that could show that either LHO or a double did stay there, but it would also show that he would have known Jack Ruby too since it shows he was fighting with him on October 11, 1963.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 16, 2019, 12:26:57 AM
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My analysis is based on a more accurate Bledsoe statement, given the fact that Rachel had yet to be born:

How does that change the fact that Bledsoe claimed to see a picture of his baby (not June) before she was born?
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Michael Walton on April 16, 2019, 12:35:43 AM
Bill Chapman is a biased researcher. I've called him out on it time and again here.

And yes, Bill, it *does* make a difference when you're biased.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Mytton on April 16, 2019, 12:41:12 AM
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe, w/f 67, 621 N. Marsalis, Dallas, Texas, Telephone WH2-1985 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Last Friday, November 22, 1963, I went downtown to see the President. I stood on Main Street just across the street from Titche's until the parade passed by. The I walked over to Elm Street and caught a bus to go home. The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus. The traffic was heavy and it took quite sometime [sic] to travel two or three blocks. During that time someone made the statement that the President had been shot and while the bus was stopped due to the heavy traffic, Oswald got off the bus and I didn't see him again. I know this man was Lee Oswald because he lived in my home from October 7, 1963 to October 14, 1963.

/s/ Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 23rd DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


Mary Bledsoe the very next day said while on Elm street that Oswald got on and off after a few blocks , was this public knowledge?
Also that the bus was stalled in traffic?
And that her bus that went to her house just happened to be in the location she said it was?
Or that while the bus was stalled that someone said the President was shot.

JohnM
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 16, 2019, 01:25:07 AM
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in fact Bledsoe saw Oswald on the bus

That's only a "fact" when you believe and rely on an unreliable witness.

That's only a "fact" when you believe and rely on an unreliable witness.

Yes... And Mary Bledsoe was definitely unreliable....    She said that she was on the first car ( she thought she was riding in a street car)  that passed through the intersection of Houston And Elm after the murder of JFK and she notice the tellow police barricade tapes and the police had the killer in handcuffs and leading him away form the area....And they looked up to where the shots had came from....

She knew all of this before any of these "facts" were know to the police......
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: John Mytton on April 16, 2019, 03:58:19 AM
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in fact Bledsoe saw Oswald on the bus

That's only a "fact" when you believe and rely on an unreliable witness.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xj59j1GV/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 16, 2019, 04:37:33 AM
Look familiar? Obviously preserved for posterity before witness McWatters had been "squared away" as to what
was appropriate to recall vs. what was not.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338646/m1/1
(http://jfkforum.com/images/McWattersI.png)
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 16, 2019, 11:08:21 AM
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??...

Mary Bledsoe the very next day said while on Elm street that Oswald got on and off after a few blocks , was this public knowledge?
Also that the bus was stalled in traffic?
And that her bus that went to her house just happened to be in the location she said it was?
Or that while the bus was stalled that someone said the President was shot.

JohnM

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_2170.pdf

The last question in CE2170, a transcript of a brief TV interview of Henry Wade in the morning of Sat., Nov., 23,
asks D.A. Wade if this was the first time Dallas Transit had been used as a get away car. The alleged bus escape
was already part of the local lore despite your discounting of any possibility witness Mary was a coerced or directed disinfo presence
or a lonely, mixed up old lady who was watching too much TV

Mary Bledsoe's aunt Adelaide Senter Germany just happened to be RD Matthews' mother's sister.

Dial Ryder just happened to be the uncle of assistant art director Jack Leslie Bowen's AKA John Caesar Grossi's son.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/29053767/fleta-l.-mantooth   Ironically, Grossi was arrested impersonating the man
his son Glenn Lewis Bowen took the name of, Mantooth.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldBowenLibraryCard.jpg)
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on April 18, 2019, 06:26:04 AM
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"The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus."

Where is Murphy Street?
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7796946,-96.8016234,19z?hl=en
It used to be a through street but a lot has changed downtown.
Title: Re: Mary Bledsoe's reading her testimony from a cue card and makes a small omission.
Post by: Tom Scully on April 20, 2019, 11:30:54 AM
Lola Mellen at age 21 married Russell Douglas Matthews in 1940. A year later their daughter Peggy Ann was born and father Russell was
about to enlist in the USMC. Twenty years later, in 1961, Lola seems to have had the worst but reasonable opinion, considering, of her ex-husband
Russell Matthews despite living a thousand miles distant, in Burlingame. CA.

Reading this for the first time earlier this week, I was moved to ask myself if Matthews gave the impression he was ruthless to the point of depravity
and could impose his will on anyone, if the concerns about his own daughter memorialized below are an indication.

Matthews seems like someone capable of directing cousin Mary Bledsoe to mislead DPD and SS and of dispatching Ruby to the DPD's basement's "Sunday service"
by making an offer to Ruby he couldn't refuse, like the continued health and safety of Ruby siblings and their kids.

Lola Margaret Mellen Dougherty's name was misppelled by DPD in 1961. I checked for any link between her husband Hubert Dougherty,
a California native, and Jack E Dougherty, and found no common ancestors or living relations.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/73975629/lola-margaret-dougherty
Lola Margaret ?Peggy? Mellen Dougherty

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=115165&relPageId=10&search=doherty
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MatthewsLolaDPD1961TurnOutPeggy.jpg)