JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Paul May on April 08, 2019, 03:42:54 AM
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Conspiracy theories: Here's what drives people to them, no matter how wacky
William Cummings USA TODAY
Published 6:19 PM EST Jan 15, 2018
Psychologists say belief in conspiracy theories has close ties "with the paranoia spectrum."
RapidEye, Getty Images
Wake up, sheeple.
Right now, there are networks of passionate and committed people across the world working to subvert some of our deepest-held beliefs and upend the established world order.
They're called conspiracy theorists. They walk among us. They could be your friends, neighbors or loved ones. Who knows? You may even be one yourself.
There seems to be a conspiracy being "uncovered" all the time these days, and no matter how outlandish they may be they seem to have no trouble drawing in ardent believers.
Despite the prevalence and pervasiveness of conspiracy theories, the reasons people are drawn to them is a relatively new area of study for psychologists.
Jan-Willem van Prooijen, an associate professor at the Department of Social and Organizational Psychology at VU University Amsterdam, said research into the phenomenon has really only taken off in the last seven years.
According to University of Chicago political science professors Eric Oliver and Thomas Wood, in any given year roughly half of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Their 2014 study found that 19% of Americans believed the U.S. government planned the 9/11 attacks to start a war in the Middle East, 24% believed former president Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and 25% believed Wall Street bankers conspired to cause the financial crisis that began in 2008. Those are high numbers considering there is zero evidence to support any of those theories.
And a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. The number has not dropped below 50% since Gallup began polling on the subject just after the 1963 tragedy.
President Trump himself has expressed a belief in at least two of the above conspiracies at one time or another. He was the most vocal proponent of the baseless claim that Obama was not born in America, and during the 2016 Republican primary campaign, Trump implied Sen. Ted Cruz's father was connected to Oswald and the Kennedy killing. Trump has also said climate change is a Chinese-manufactured hoax meant to hurt U.S. industry. His characterization of Russian election meddling as a "made-up story" designed to discredit his election victory was deemed 2017's lie of the year by fact-checker Politifact last week.
Everyone's a suspect
Conspiracy theorists can be conservative, liberal or any other political stripe ? male or female, rich or poor, well educated or not.
To some extent, the human brain is wired to find conspiracy theories appealing. People are highly evolved when it comes to the ability to draw conclusions and predict consequences based on sensory data and observation. But sometimes those same processes can lead to oversimplifications and misperception through what psychologists refer to as "cognitive bias," van Prooijen said.
Among the cognitive biases Van Prooijen and other psychologists believe contribute to the appeal of conspiracy theories are:
Confirmation bias: People's willingness to accept explanations that fit what they already believe.
Proportionality bias: The inclination to believe that big events must have big causes.
Illusory pattern perception: The tendency to see causal relations where there may not be any.
Yet there are factors that make some people more or less inclined to accept conspiracy theories.
People with greater knowledge of the news media are less likely to believe conspiracy theories, according to a new study, ?News Media Literacy and Conspiracy Theory Endorsement,? in the current issue of Communication and the Public.
?It?s significant that knowledge about the news media ? not beliefs about it, but knowledge of basic facts about structure, content and effects ? is associated with less likelihood one will fall prey to a conspiracy theory, even a theory that is in line with one?s political ideology,? co-author Stephanie Craft, a University of Illinois journalism professor, told the Columbia Journalism Review.
Oliver believes the greatest predictor of people's likelihood to accept conspiracy theories is the degree to which they rely on their intuition over analytical thinking.
"They go with their gut feelings. They?re very susceptible to symbols and metaphors," he said.
Conspiracy theories as coping mechanism?
One reason for the pervasiveness of conspiracy theories is that they serve an important psychological function for people trying to cope with large, stressful events like a terrorist attack.
People "need to blame the anxiety that they feel on different groups and the result is frequently conspiracy theories," van Prooijen said, defining the term as a belief that "a group of actors is colluding in secret in order to reach goals that are considered evil or malevolent."
"People don?t like it when things are really random. Randomness is more threatening than having an enemy. You can prepare for an enemy, you can?t prepare for coincidences."
Conspiracy theories also appeal to people's need to feel special and unique because it gives them a sense of possessing secret knowledge, according to a study in the July 2017 edition of Social Psychology.
Real conspiracies
Of course, sometimes conspiracies turn out to be real.
President Nixon tried to cover up the Watergate break-in; the Reagan administration sold arms to Iran to illegally fund the Contra rebels in Nicaragua, and the CIA really did test LSD on unwitting U.S. citizens.
Of course, one thing those conspiracies have in common is that they all came to light. And that is almost certain to be the case with any large plot like those imagined by conspiracy theorists.
Yes, conspiracies exist, but the real ones usually don't fit the Hollywood mold of films like The Parallax View, The Manchurian Candidate or Oliver Stone's JFK.
They imagine "a secret government employing hundreds of people that operate with supreme efficiency, everybody having the capability of James Bond and never making an error," said Gerald Posner, author of Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK. Posner began the book a believer that the mafia was behind the assassination, but his research led him to conclude that the Warren Commission was right and Oswald acted alone.
"After 54 years, you say, 'Where?s the deathbed confession?'" Posner said of the Kennedy assassination. "Where?s the guilty person with a guilty conscience who comes out? Where?s the diary that?s been left by somebody that has now been unearthed?
"Are there some out there that we never found out about? I?m sure," Posner said. "But at the level of assassinating the president of the United States, with the level of complexity and the number of people that would have had to have been involved, for that to have worked? No."
The long-awaited release this year of nearly 2,900 previously classified records related to the Kennedy assassination also failed to produce any evidence of a conspiracy to kill the president. But a few documents remain classified, which is more than enough mystery to keep the conspiracy theories around the assassination alive.
JFK files: Here are the most interesting records on Kennedy assassination, annotated
More: JFK files: Withheld documents only encourage more conspiracy theories, expert says
An act of faith
The absence of evidence never got in the way of a good conspiracy theory. No matter how unlikely a given imagined conspiracy, and no matter how many facts are produced to disprove it, the true believers never budge.
For example, even when Obama released his birth certificate many "birthers" were still certain he was not a natural-born American citizen. The fact that multitudes of horrified people witnessed the planes fly into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, hasn't stopped conspiracy theorists from insisting the towers collapsed because of a controlled demolition.
And what do you say to the people who still aren't convinced we went to the moon or that the Earth is flat?
"I?ve learned that is there no such thing as evidence that persuades a conspiracy theorist," Posner said. "It?s sort of a psycho-religious belief, in part. They just know it?s true even if they can?t quite prove it."
Van Prooijen also called conspiracy theories a "form of belief."
"It doesn?t matter how much evidence to the contrary you raise, these hardcore conspiracy theories will discredit the source of the evidence," van Prooijen said. "It?s very easy to dismiss evidence as being part of the conspiracy, being part of the coverup. So it?s very hard to disprove a conspiracy theory."
Is social media making it worse?
Social media is often the scapegoat for many of contemporary civilization's ills, but surprisingly there is not yet evidence it is increasing the number of conspiracy theory adherents.
"I?m not yet persuaded that the number of people who actually believe in them has increased due to social media," said van Prooijen, adding that people believed in conspiracies in huge numbers long before the arrival of Facebook and Twitter.
But van Prooijen and Oliver think those sites, as well as anonymous platforms like 4Chan, have increased the number of conspiracy theories out there and allowed them to spread more quickly.
"It was harder to get conspiracy theories to your doorstep 50 years ago than it is now," said Oliver.
A person who might have been handing out fliers on a street corner to get their ideas out in the past might have 200,000 followers on social media today, Oliver said.
So, what's the harm?
Irrational conspiracy theories can lead people to not vaccinate their children, to deny the scientific evidence of climate change or to dismiss mass shootings like the one at Sandy Hook Elementary as "false flag" operations meant to spur gun control.
A wildly irrational conspiracy theory that presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was connected to a child-sex ring that was being run out of a Washington pizza shop even led to a man opening fire in the restaurant with a semi-automatic rifle. Fortunately, he shot at the ceiling and not the patrons.
More: 'Pizzagate' gunman attempted to recruit 2 others
Van Prooijen believes such conspiratorial thinking can undermine democracy because it sows distrust and leads to groups perceiving each other as enemies.
Oliver does not believe conspiracy theories have a major impact on politics as much as they are symptomatic of problems with the political system.
"It?s less about the conspiracy theories themselves and it?s more about kind of the flight from reason in political discourse," he said. "American democracy is a product of the Enlightenment, it?s a very explicitly rationalist enterprise."
And if people reject rationality to embrace what they believe over what they can prove, that Democratic enterprise could begin to unravel.
Published 6:19 PM EST Jan 15, 2018
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? Copyright Gannett 2018
https://usat.ly/2C05W73
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^
And the reason is Tommy, to distract us from those who really control things. Keep them angry at the government, meanwhile the heads of these large corporations who are running the show, catch no flack.
Also Paul, without the CT angle, this case is of no interest. So your crusade(if I may call it that) against the kooks is either completely retraded or a bluff.
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According to University of Chicago political science professors Eric Oliver and Thomas Wood, in any given year roughly half of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Their 2014 study found that 19% of Americans believed the U.S. government planned the 9/11 attacks to start a war in the Middle East, 24% believed former president Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and 25% believed Wall Street bankers conspired to cause the financial crisis that began in 2008. Those are high numbers considering there is zero evidence to support any of those theories.
And a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. The number has not dropped below 50% since Gallup began polling on the subject just after the 1963 tragedy.
These guys are not rocket scientists are they...... :D
And the article quotes Posner......known plagiarist.....glad you included the copywrite symbol.
Another puff piece that should be in the off topic section. All the wacky theories have those who believe them in the minority.
Fake Moon landing, flat earth, UFOs, Sasquatch, Kennedy killed by lone Oswald etc......all far less than 50% of population believe. ;D
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And the reason,Tommy, is to distract us from those who really control things. Keep them angry at the government, meanwhile the heads of these large corporations who are running the show, catch no flack.
Also Paul, without the CT angle, this case is of no interest. So your crusade(if I may call it that) against the kooks is either completely retraded or a bluff.
Barry,
Who "really controls things"?
The "KGB" would have us believe that it's the evil, evil, evil CIA and/or "The Deep State".
-- MWT :)
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According to University of Chicago political science professors Eric Oliver and Thomas Wood, in any given year roughly half of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Their 2014 study found that 19% of Americans believed the U.S. government planned the 9/11 attacks to start a war in the Middle East, 24% believed former president Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and 25% believed Wall Street bankers conspired to cause the financial crisis that began in 2008. Those are high numbers considering there is zero evidence to support any of those theories.
And a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. The number has not dropped below 50% since Gallup began polling on the subject just after the 1963 tragedy.
These guys are not rocket scientists are they...... :D
And the article quotes Posner......known plagiarist.....glad you included the copywrite symbol.
Another puff piece that should be in the off topic section. All the wacky theories have those who believe them in the minority.
Fake Moon landing, flat earth, UFOs, Sasquatch, Kennedy killed by lone Oswald etc......all far less than 50% of population believe. ;D
Thumb1: Well said Mr Crow.... I can only echo your words....
a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy[/b]
So 61% of the citizens are Kooks and only a small percentage are totally rational and have complete confidence that the official government approve tale is the gospel truth. We can be sure that of the remaining 39%,... a percentage are agnostic, ( let's say 10%) and another group simply don't care at all ( let's say 10%) ..That reduces the number that accept the official US government approved tale to 19%.
So only around 19% of the people are rational......and 81% are not.....
Unfortunately many of the DON"T GIVE A DAMN group reside in Washington DC..... Denizens of the swamp on the Potomac, and they have the power to control
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Conspiracy theories: Here's what drives people to them, no matter how wacky
William Cummings USA TODAY
Published 6:19 PM EST Jan 15, 2018
~snip~
"...Popular belief in a conspiracy was widespread within a week of Kennedy's murder. Between November 25 and 29, 1963,
University of Chicago pollsters asked more than 1,000 Americans whom they thought was responsible for the president's
death. By then, the chief suspect, Oswald -- a leftist who had lived for a time in Soviet Union -- had been shot dead
while in police custody by Jack Ruby, a local hoodlum with organized crime connections.
While the White House, the FBI, and the Dallas Police Department all affirmed that Oswald had acted alone, 62 percent
of respondents said they believed that more than one person was involved in the assassination. Only 24 percent thought
Oswald had acted alone. Another poll taken in Dallas during the same week found 66 percent of respondents believing that
there had been a plot. There were no JFK conspiracy theories in print at that time..."
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"...many senior U.S. officials concluded that there had been a plot but rarely talked about it openly.
Kennedy's successor, Lyndon Johnson, publicly endorsed the Warren Commissions conclusion that Oswald acted alone. Privately,
LBJ told many people, ranging from Atlantic contributor Leo Janos to CIA director Richard Helms, that he did not believe the
lone-gunman explanation.
The president's brother Robert and widow Jacqueline also believed that he had been killed by political enemies, according to
historians Aleksandr Fursenko and Tim Naftali. In their 1999 book on the Cuban missile crisis, One Hell of a Gamble: Khrushchev,
Castro, and Kennedy, 1958-1964, they reported that William Walton -- a friend of the First Lady -- went to Moscow on a previously
scheduled trip a week after JFK's murder. Walton carried a message from RFK and Jackie for their friend, Georgi Bolshakov, a
Russian diplomat who had served as a back-channel link between the White House and the Kremlin during the October 1962 crisis:
RFK and Jackie wanted the Soviet leadership to know that "despite Oswald's connections to the communist world, the Kennedys
believed that the president was felled by domestic opponents."
In the Senate, Democrats Richard Russell of Georgia and Russell Long of Louisiana both rejected official accounts of the assassination.
In the executive branch, Joseph Califano, the General Counsel of Army in 1963 and later Secretary of Health Education and Welfare,
concluded that Kennedy had been killed by a conspiracy.* In the White House, H.R. Haldeman, chief of staff to President Richard Nixon,
wanted to reopen the JFK investigation in 1969. Nixon wasn't interested.
Suspicion persisted in the upper echelons of the U.S. national security agencies, as well. Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, chief of Pentagon
special operations in 1963 (and later an adviser to Stone), believed that there had been a plot.
Winston Scott, chief of the CIA's station in Mexico City at the time of Kennedy's murder and an ultra-conservative Agency loyalist,
rejected the Warren Commission's findings about a trip that Oswald had taken to Mexico six weeks before the assassination. Scott
concluded in an unpublished memoir that Oswald had, indeed, been just a patsy.
None of these figures was a paranoid fantasist. To the contrary, they constituted a cross section of the American power elite in 1963.
Neither did they talk about a JFK conspiracy for public consumption; they talked about it only reservedly, in confined circles..."
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/the-kennedy-assassination-47-years-later-what-do-we-really-know/66722/
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The "KGB" was an organ of the former USSR. It hasn"t existed since that failed states demise in 1991.
::)
Really?
Ya think that might be why I put it in quotation marks?
Regardless, do you really think "active measures" counterintelligence operations, commingled with "strategic deception" (aka "operational deception") counterintelligence operations, against us and our allies, stopped in 1991?
LOL
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
-- MWT :)
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
These conspiracies to lynch were very well organised, and documented, a very similar scenario was in operation on the day J.F.K was murdered, with the full backing of the majority of people in the city of hate, a conspiracy no doubts about it.
Terror lynchings were horrific acts of violence whose perpetrators were never held accountable. Indeed, some public spectacle lynchings were attended by the entire white community and conducted as celebratory acts of racial control and domination.
J.F.K's death in Texas was a public execution almost like a lynching only another method of death was used, not a theory but a reality based on historical facts
In the midst of this growing instability, officials struggled to control increasingly violent and lawless groups of white supremacists in their states. Beginning as disparate ?social clubs? of former Confederates, these groups morphed into large paramilitary organizations that drew thousands of members from all sectors of white society.
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
These conspiracies to lynch were very well organised, and documented, a very similar scenario was in operation on the day J.F.K was murdered, with the full backing of the majority of people in the city of hate, a conspiracy no doubts about it.
Terror lynchings were horrific acts of violence whose perpetrators were never held accountable. Indeed, some public spectacle lynchings were attended by the entire white community and conducted as celebratory acts of racial control and domination.
J.F.K's death in Texas was a public execution almost like a lynching only another method of death was used, not a theory but a reality based on historical facts
In the midst of this growing instability, officials struggled to control increasingly violent and lawless groups of white supremacists in their states. Beginning as disparate ?social clubs? of former Confederates, these groups morphed into large paramilitary organizations that drew thousands of members from all sectors of white society.
Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
Don't forget mention where you stole this from.
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Ever hear of an investigative journalist named Gary Webb? He wrote a series of reports on CIA activities involving drug trafficking and the Contra in the mid-nineties [Bill Clinton era]
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Gary-Webb
Apparently, his publicized story may have cost him his life. Webb was found dead in his Carmichael home on December 10, 2004, with two gunshot wounds to the head. His death was ruled a suicide by the Sacramento County coroner's office.[67] After a local paper reported that he had died from multiple gunshots, the coroner's office received so many calls asking about Webb's death that Sacramento County Coroner Robert Lyons issued a statement confirming Webb had committed suicide.[68] When asked by local reporters about the possibility of two gunshots being a suicide, Lyons replied: "It's unusual in a suicide case to have two shots, but it has been done in the past, and it is in fact a distinct possibility." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb#Death
A result no doubt of a 'magic trigger finger' ::) Remember that Marilyn Monroe also died of a 'suicide'. The LA coroner obviously held a seance and established her erratic frame of mind.
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My daughter who is 34 recently had a baby shower. 40-50 people there, majority millennials in her age range. As I walked around devouring food and drink, I engaged in a few conversations and several times asked a group: ?Did Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald or Jim Garrison shoot JFK?? The responses: 4 people said Ruby. 5 people said Oswald. 11 people said Garrison. 21 people said ?no idea and I really don?t care?. It gets less important with each passing generation.
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Fake Moon landing, flat earth, UFOs, Sasquatch, Kennedy killed by lone Oswald etc......all far less than 50% of population believe. ;D
Yeah, the argument here seems to be:
"Look at all those crazy flat-earthers! Aren't they crazy? Therefore, Oswald killed JFK".
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My daughter who is 34 recently had a baby shower. 40-50 people there, majority millennials in her age range. As I walked around devouring food and drink, I engaged in a few conversations and several times asked a group: ?Did Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald or Jim Garrison shoot JFK?? The responses: 4 people said Ruby. 5 people said Oswald. 11 people said Garrison. 21 people said ?no idea and I really don?t care?. It gets less important with each passing generation.
It gets less important with each passing generation.
Or it just simply shows how ignorant and badly educated the younger generations have become.
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It gets less important with each passing generation.
Or it just simply shows how ignorant and badly educated the younger generations have become.
Or Paul?s daughter?s friends aren?t a representative sample.
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
Don't forget mention where you stole this from.
Brilliantly addressed by Billie Holiday:
Strange Fruit
Southern trees bear strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees
Pastoral scene of the gallant south
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh
Here is fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop
Songwriters: Lewis Allan / Maurice Pearl / Dwayne P Wiggins
Strange Fruit lyrics ? Warner/Chappell Music, Inc
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What would be a representative sample? My daughter is a clinical psychologist, her husband an Asst.DA and most of their friends similarly educated. So, what are they missing?
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What would be a representative sample? My daughter is a clinical psychologist, her husband an Asst.DA and most of their friends similarly educated. So, what are they missing?
what are they missing
What no one outside these forums gives a crap about.
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Really?
Ya think that might be why I put it in quotation marks?
Regardless, do you really think "active measures" counterintelligence operations, commingled with "strategic deception" (aka "operational deception") counterintelligence operations, against us and our allies, stopped in 1991?
LOL
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
-- MWT :)
Right, you're the smart guy here. ::)
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My daughter who is 34 recently had a baby shower. 40-50 people there, majority millennials in her age range. As I walked around devouring food and drink, I engaged in a few conversations and several times asked a group: ?Did Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald or Jim Garrison shoot JFK?? The responses: 4 people said Ruby. 5 people said Oswald. 11 people said Garrison. 21 people said ?no idea and I really don?t care?. It gets less important with each passing generation.
As I walked around devouring food and drink,
21 people said ?no idea and I really don?t care?. It gets less important with each passing generation.
You've hit the nail on the head.... As long as the pissants are fat dumb and happy.... Nobody is going to give a damn....That's the American way.
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As I walked around devouring food and drink,
21 people said ?no idea and I really don?t care?. It gets less important with each passing generation.
You've hit the nail on the head.... As long as the pissants are fat dumb and happy.... Nobody is going to give a damn....That's the American way.
It was almost 60 years ago. It really doesn?t matter anymore. Even if there was a conspiracy, everybody involved is dead or dying. It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.? Historical events loose their impact as time progresses.
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It was almost 60 years ago. It really doesn?t matter anymore. Even if there was a conspiracy, everybody involved is dead or dying. It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.? Historical events loose their impact as time progresses.
Agreed. Now that GHWB is dead, I'm going to call this one a successful coup d'etat and a bonafide win for the conspirators. Congrats to all the LNer shills for all their decades of hapless work toeing the WC party line. Suckas!
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It was almost 60 years ago. It really doesn?t matter anymore. Even if there was a conspiracy, everybody involved is dead or dying. It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.? Historical events loose their impact as time progresses.
If it doesn't matter anymore.....Then WHY does the government continue to lie, and withhold evidence and information??
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If it doesn't matter anymore.....Then WHY does the government continue to lie, and withhold evidence and information??
When was the last time the US gov even mentioned the JFK case?
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When was the last time the US gov even mentioned the JFK case?
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/nr18-45 (https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/nr18-45)
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The "kids" don't remember where they were when they learned JFK, MLK, and RFK were assassinated.
BTW, a reminder we aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto!
Sixteen hours ago, testifying to a congressional body.:
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1904/10/cnr.04.html
CNN NEWSROOM
William Barr's Testimony Before the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired April 10, 2019 - 10:30 ET
?...
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: reviewing both the genesis and the conduct of intelligence activities directed at the Trump campaign during 2016. And a lot has already been -- a lot of this has already been investigated and a substantial portion of it has been investigated and is being investigated by the Office of Inspector General at the department.
But one of things I want to do is pull together all the information from the various investigations that have gone on including on the Hill and in the department and see if there any remaining questions to be addressed.
SHAHEEN: And can you share with us why you feel a need to do that?
BARR: Well, you know, for the same -- well for the same reason were worried about foreign influence in elections we want to make sure that during a -- I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal, it's a big deal. The generation I grew up in which is the Vietnam War period, people were all concerned about spying on antiwar people and so forth by the government and there were a lot of rules put in place to make sure that there's an adequate basis before -- before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance.
I'm not suggesting that those rules were violated but I think it's important to look at that and I'm not -- I'm not talking about the FBI necessarily but intelligence agencies more broadly.
Two weeks ago the IG of DOJ released this report of investigation...On page 30:
https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2019/o1901.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BarrDragnet1992approvalDEAsecret.png)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BarrDragnet1992approvalDEAsecret_2of3.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BarrDragnet1992approvalDEAsecret_3of3.jpg)
William Barr Helped Build America's Surveillance State | American ...
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/william-barr-helped-build-americas-surveillance
January 9, 2019 | 3:30 PM ... In 1992, he and his then-deputy Robert Mueller authorized the Drug Enforcement Administration to begin ... The DEA program ultimately became a model for the NSA's phone records collection program under the ?
Watchdog report critiques DEA program Barr approved 27 years ago ...
https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2019/03/28/barr-dea-program-1242118
Mar 28, 2019 - Watchdog report critiques DEA program Barr approved 27 years ago ... a practice similar to the National Security Agency snooping program revealed in ... program back in January 1992: the attorney general at the time, Barr.
U.S. secretly tracked billions of calls for decades - USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/07/dea-bulk-telephone-surveillance-operation/70808616/
Apr 7, 2015 - The Justice Department revealed in January that the DEA had collected ... It was a model for the massive phone surveillance system the NSA ... The data collection began in 1992 during the administration of ... In 1992, in the last months of Bush's administration, Attorney General William Barr and his chief ..
SHAHEEN: So you're not -- you're not suggesting though that spying occurred?
BARR: I don't -- well I guess you could -- I -- I think there is spying did occur. Yes, I think spying did occur.
SHAHEEN: Well let me...
BARR: But the question is whether it was predicated -- adequately predicated and I'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated but I need to explore that. I think it's my obligation. Congress is usually very concerned about intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies staying in their proper lane and I want to make sure that happened. We have a lot of rules about that and I want to say that -- that I've said I'm reviewing this. I am going -- I haven't set up a team yet but I do have in mind having some colleagues help me pull all this information together and -- and let me know whether there are some areas that should be looked at.
And I also want to make clear is not launching an investigation of the FBI. I -- frankly I'm, to the extent there were there were any issues at the FBI, I do not view it as a problem that's endemic to the FBI. I think there was probably a failure among a group of leaders there at the upper echelon and so I don't like to hear attacks about the FBI because I think the FBI is an outstanding organization and I think Chris Wray is a great partner for mayhem(ph). I'm very pleased that he's there as the director.
If it becomes necessary to -- to look over some former official's activities I expect that I'll be relying heavily on Chris and -- and work closely with him in looking at that information. But that's what I'm doing. I -- I feel I have an obligation to make sure that government power is not abused. I mean I think that's one of the principal roles of the attorney general....
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So Bernie takes it up the kazoo at the convention and the Marxist in Chief spies on Trump and she STILL lost. I smell 4 more years coming.
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So Bernie takes it up the kazoo at the convention and the Marxist in Chief spies on Trump and she STILL lost. I smell 4 more years coming.
That is one putrid smell.
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That is one putrid smell.
Start holding your breath.
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Brilliantly addressed by Billie Holiday:
Strange Fruit
Southern trees bear strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees
Pastoral scene of the gallant south
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh
Here is fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop
Songwriters: Lewis Allan / Maurice Pearl / Dwayne P Wiggins
Strange Fruit lyrics ? Warner/Chappell Music, Inc
Jussie Smollett did a nice version also.
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What would be a representative sample? My daughter is a clinical psychologist, her husband an Asst.DA and most of their friends similarly educated. So, what are they missing?
You cannot get into decent positions like that unless you are well versed in towing the line. From kindergarten we are told to behave ourselves or become separated from the group and this continues throughout our lives. Start doing your own research and come to class with awkward questions(I mean REALLY awkward) and once again you'll become ostracized, get fed up or frustrated and drop out or at the v least have this troublemaker label forever on your record. Also, when you train to become somebody and hold down a decent job and raise a family you just don't have the time to study this crap.
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What drives people to conspiracy theory?
I do my best to avoid generalizations and I can only give you my experience.
Nothing drove me to it, it just came to me after seeing a documentary on the case, the head-shot(b&ttl)and the whole grassy knoll "evidence", I just thought, there's clearly something wrong here and of course, you say, wow, "they"'ve been lying to us...
Coming online and seeing the whole community so into it, it's great, for so many reasons. You learn how to evaluate evidence properly, to question and research correctly too, to admit when you are wrong like it's nothing and personally, to come to respect and value both sides after realizing we are ultimately on the same team and a very, very small section of society.
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And a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. The number has not dropped below 50% since Gallup began polling on the subject just after the 1963 tragedy.
People don't believe the "official" explanations when they do NOT make sense. But not believing the official explanations does NOT prove what DID happen.
So to SOLVE the JFK assassination "mystery", you MUST be able to identify the valid evidence and reject the invalid evidence.
For example, the JFK assassination evidence has evidence wich indicates there was a LARGE exit wound in the right posterior of JFK's head. Other "evidence" clearly shows there was NO large exit wound in the back of JFK's head. The multi-million dollar question is WHICH set of evidence is correct? And which is invalid? Were these conflicts caused by simple mistakes OR was a large amount of invalid evidence forged?
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXcg5vLL/Back-head-JFK.jpg)
To answer these questions correctly is NOT conceptually difficult. If you have a grasp of basic high school level math, you can understand HOW to answer these questions correctly. Once you have done that, you can see how easily the JFK assassination can be solved.
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It was almost 60 years ago. It really doesn?t matter anymore. Even if there was a conspiracy, everybody involved is dead or dying. It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.? Historical events loose their impact as time progresses.
It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.?
How do you know that "it didn't change anything"?
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And a whopping 61% said they do not believe the official conclusion of the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. The number has not dropped below 50% since Gallup began polling on the subject just after the 1963 tragedy.
People don't believe the "official" explanations when they do NOT make sense. But not believing the official explanations does NOT prove what DID happen.
So to SOLVE the JFK assassination "mystery", you MUST be able to identify the valid evidence and reject the invalid evidence.
For example, the JFK assassination evidence has evidence wich indicates there was a LARGE exit wound in the right posterior of JFK's head. Other "evidence" clearly shows there was NO large exit wound in the back of JFK's head. The multi-million dollar question is WHICH set of evidence is correct? And which is invalid? Were these conflicts caused by simple mistakes OR was a large amount of invalid evidence forged?
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXcg5vLL/Back-head-JFK.jpg)
To answer these questions correctly is NOT conceptually difficult. If you have a grasp of basic high school level math, you can understand HOW to answer these questions correctly. Once you have done that, you can see how easily the JFK assassination can be solved.
Virtually ALL of the witnesses in Dallas at Parkland....( about thirty people) said that JFK had a huge hole in the back of his skull.....
You're right, the case is no big mystery....But it requires guts to face the truth... And that's the problem. Far too many cannot accept the truth, and would rather accept a lie .....
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It didn?t change anything and neither will ?knowing? the ?truth.?
How do you know that "it didn't change anything"?
Actually the coup d e'tat changed the course of history.... I doubt that nearly 60,000 young Americans would have been killed in Vietnam if JFK had not been murdered.... IMO 60,000 young men is significant.... And that's only one of the things that resulted from of the murder....
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Virtually ALL of the witnesses in Dallas at Parkland....( about thirty people) said that JFK had a huge hole in the back of his skull.....
You're right, the case is no big mystery....But it requires guts to face the truth... And that's the problem. Far too many cannot accept the truth, and would rather accept a lie .....
Virtually ALL of the witnesses at Parkland:
(https://i.postimg.cc/HsZ55ZM2/Back-head-JFK.jpg)
You don't have to look at only Parkland to find witnesses who said there was a MASSIVE hole in the right posterior of JFK's head. Some of the witnesses shown above were in Dealey Plaza, some at Parkland and some at Bethesda.
What would be the odds that so many witnesses who saw JFK's head would say that there was a large hole in the rear of it wasn't actually there? The obvious answer is that the odds of so many people who never talked with each other describing similar things would NEVER be expected to happen.
At this point it would seem to me that no reasonable person would believe that a conspiracy didn't exist.
The US government's version of the condition of the back of JFK's head is based in large part on the autopsy information that was developed at Bethesda.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKbNh5L3/JFK_back_of_head.jpg)
The scenario of a small entrance wound in the rear of JFK's head as shown on the left of the image was always controlled by the US gov't. Because all of the medical personnel at Bethesda were initially given orders that they couldn't talk about the case, it shows that the US gov't could control what people said and what information was shown to the public. In other words, it would have been possible for the US gov't to have FORGED/ALTERED/DESTROYED evidence as necessary to show a small bullet hole instead of the large wound that was actually there.
At this point, it is easy to ask a few questions:
1. WHO had the power to organize a team to kill the President of the United States?
2. WHO had the power to "fix" the investiation so that the autopsy photographs could be forged to hide the truth? (The actual photographs were NOT shown until 1988 on the 25th anniversary of the brutal murder)
https://vimeo.com/130545091 (https://vimeo.com/130545091) about time 29 the documentary talks about the doctors finally sllowed to review the autopsy photographs
3. What would be the most likely motive for the US gov't to have forged autopsy information? The answer to that question is rather easy.
Getting back on topic to this thread, no reasonable person who has reviewed the JFK assassination information about the autopsy should be able to say CONSPIRACY THEORY. Instead, the most likely answer at this point is CONSPIRACY FACT!
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Virtually ALL of the witnesses at Parkland:
(https://i.postimg.cc/HsZ55ZM2/Back-head-JFK.jpg)
You don't have to look at only Parkland to find witnesses who said there was a MASSIVE hole in the right posterior of JFK's head. Some of the witnesses shown above were in Dealey Plaza, some at Parkland and some at Bethesda.
What would be the odds that so many witnesses who saw JFK's head would say that there was a large hole in the rear of it wasn't actually there? The obvious answer is that the odds of so many people who never talked with each other describing similar things would NEVER be expected to happen.
At this point it would seem to me that no reasonable person would believe that a conspiracy didn't exist.
The US government's version of the condition of the back of JFK's head is based in large part on the autopsy information that was developed at Bethesda.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKbNh5L3/JFK_back_of_head.jpg)
The scenario of a small entrance wound in the rear of JFK's head as shown on the left of the image was always controlled by the US gov't. Because all of the medical personnel at Bethesda were initially given orders that they couldn't talk about the case, it shows that the US gov't could control what people said and what information was shown to the public. In other words, it would have been possible for the US gov't to have FORGED/ALTERED/DESTROYED evidence as necessary to show a small bullet hole instead of the large wound that was actually there.
At this point, it is easy to ask a few questions:
1. WHO had the power to organize a team to kill the President of the United States?
2. WHO had the power to "fix" the investiation so that the autopsy photographs could be forged to hide the truth? (The actual photographs were NOT shown until 1988 on the 25th anniversary of the brutal murder)
https://vimeo.com/130545091 (https://vimeo.com/130545091) about time 29 the documentary talks about the doctors finally sllowed to review the autopsy photographs
3. What would be the most likely motive for the US gov't to have forged autopsy information? The answer to that question is rather easy.
Getting back on topic to this thread, no reasonable person who has reviewed the JFK assassination information about the autopsy should be able to say CONSPIRACY THEORY. Instead, the most likely answer at this point is CONSPIRACY FACT!
These BOH eyewitnesses are not consistent.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5rdGK8z/Lee-Kaniasbohwitness-zpsdrftrhuu.gif)
The first day DP eyewitnesses are all consistent because they can only honestly say what they saw.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hPxfzKjP/Dealey-Plaza-Eyewitnesses2-zpsc1d78c8b.gif)
Many eyewitnesses agree 100% with the first day DP eyewitnesses, the unaltered Zapruder film, the X rays, the autopsy photos, etc..
(https://i.postimg.cc/k4jHqr8x/alotofevidenceh.jpg)
A lot of the autopsy photos were taken in stereo pairs which eliminates any photographic manipulation.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbWLrXvJ/JFKBOHlatest-HD4-zps1159966c.gif)
JohnM
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The FBI were the "cleaners" of the coup and they focused on pushing the LNer narrative and erased any contradictions. They hoped JFK was killed before reaching the turkey shoot point so the umbrella man wouldn't have to signal Greer to slow down the limo so they could finish him off.
The FBI's main objectives were to erase all signs of shots from the front and side and speeding up the limo in the Z-film. They also had to deal with near simultaneous blow-outs at JFK's right temple and the back of his head, which occurred when Greer slowed down the limo at the turkey shoot point where several near simultaneous shots sounded like a single shot from Oswald.
One of the things that was altered in the Z-film was the gaping hole in the back of JFK's head. Especially frame 323:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/323.png)
If you look closely there is a blacked out spot which covers the occipital region of JFK's head . The following graphic shows the trajectory of the bullet that caused all that damage:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)
There is the obvious postmortem surgery to hide the entrance wound:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/postmortemsurgery.png)
Then there is the simultaneous shot from the side with a frangible bullet that created JFK's right temple blow-out:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_temple_blowout2.jpg)
A shooter from the 6th floor of the TSBD couldn't possibly have created all these wounds with a single FMJ bullet.
Which leads us inexorably to the conclusion that ALL the autopsy photos were BS, which includes this one:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_backwound.jpg)
Good thing for the LNers this autopsy photo is fake because there is no trajectory from the TSBD into JFK's back, out his throat and into Conally's armpit. Otherwise, I challenge the LNers (especially Mytton) to demonstrate one. Until then, the best hypothesis is that the autopsy photos were faked, the Z-film was edited and the JFK assassination was a coup d'etat. Show me otherwise.
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The FBI were the "cleaners" of the coup and they focused on pushing the LNer narrative and erased any contradictions. They hoped JFK was killed before reaching the turkey shoot point so the umbrella man wouldn't have to signal Greer to slow down the limo so they could finish him off.
The FBI's main objectives were to erase all signs of shots from the front and side and speeding up the limo in the Z-film. They also had to deal with near simultaneous blow-outs at JFK's right temple and the back of his head, which occurred when Greer slowed down the limo at the turkey shoot point where several near simultaneous shots sounded like a single shot from Oswald.
One of the things that was altered in the Z-film was the gaping hole in the back of JFK's head. Especially frame 323:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/323.png)
If you look closely there is a blacked out spot which covers the occipital region of JFK's head . The following graphic shows the trajectory of the bullet that caused all that damage:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)
There is the obvious postmortem surgery to hide the entrance wound:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/postmortemsurgery.png)
Then there is the simultaneous shot from the side with a frangible bullet that created JFK's right temple blow-out:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_temple_blowout2.jpg)
A shooter from the 6th floor of the TSBD couldn't possibly have created all these wounds with a single FMJ bullet.
Which leads us inexorably to the conclusion that ALL the autopsy photos were BS, which includes this one:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_backwound.jpg)
Good thing for the LNers this autopsy photo is fake because there is no trajectory from the TSBD into JFK's back and out his throat in into Conally's armpit. Otherwise, I challenge the LNers to demonstrate one. Until then, the best hypothesis is that the autopsy photos were faked, the Z-film was edited and the JFK assassination was a coup coup d'etat. Show me otherwise.
signal Greer to slow down the limo
Yeah sure, Greer knew that he was driving into a turkey shoot and fully accepted the mission, how absurd!
The FBI's main objectives were to erase all signs of shots from the front and side and speeding up the limo in the Z-film.
How pray tell did they "speed" up the Limo in the Zapruder film? This will be good!
And as for the rest, typical Trojan BS, what a clown!
JohnM
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Yeah sure, Greer knew that he was driving into a turkey shoot and fully accepted the mission, how absurd!
You don't think Greer was confident that sharpshooters wouldn't kill him with Connally as a buffer?
How pray tell did they "speed" up the Limo in the Zapruder film? This will be good!
You actually know squat about film editing, don't you?
And as for the rest, typical Trojan BS, what a clown!
Still waiting for your 2 laser re-enactment of the magic bullet Myttonhead. I know you've done it, so where's the beef? :D
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You don't think Greer was confident that sharpshooters wouldn't kill him with Connally as a buffer?
You actually know squat about film editing, don't you?
Still waiting for your 2 laser re-enactment of the magic bullet Myttonhead. I know you've done it, so where's the beef? :D
You don't think Greer was confident that sharpshooters wouldn't kill him with Connally as a buffer?
I know that I wouldn't knowingly drive into your triangulation of snipers, would you?
You actually know squat about film editing, don't you?
The proof of my film editing competence is on display in hours of Youtube videos and you?
And in addition, here on this site I have posted a stack of video gifs which all require some form of editing, from editing out redundant scenes, editing together time sensitive video collages all the way through to speed manipulation and you?
Anyway enough of your amateur gibberish, in Zapruder the reality is we are left with sequential film frames of Zapruder's pan which are all mathematically measurable from frame to frame and even with 1 frame removed the sequence instantly has a staccato effect.
Herbert an old member made a claim that the following woman had a frame removed at the time of the headshot but as can be seen in the video I edited and composited together, as soon as even 1 frame is removed it's instantly detectable. How about you prove your observations with something similar?
(https://i.postimg.cc/j23WyYkq/zapz313in-out1-zpsfe80c426.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4NzyJtXN/zapz313in-out-zps2e876720.gif)
Still waiting for your 2 laser re-enactment of the magic bullet Myttonhead. I know you've done it, so where's the beef? :D
What? It's your claim and so far all you've got is some 2d stickman representation that isn't even remotely Kennedy's position. I thought you were some sort of photogrammetry wizard, this sort of stuff should be a walk in the park?
JohnM
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I know that I wouldn't knowingly drive into your triangulation of snipers, would you?
No, I wouldn't. But what does that have to do with Greer's "orders" and whether he complied?
The proof of my film editing competence is on display in hours of Youtube videos and you?
And in addition, here on this site I have posted a stack of video gifs which all require some form of editing, from editing out redundant scenes, editing together time sensitive video collages all the way through to speed manipulation and you?
:D Everyone knows you are merely an armchair photoshopper with zero training in photogrammetry. So you equate video gifs with 8mm film? For that alone, you fail.
Anyway enough of your amateur gibberish, in Zapruder the reality is we are left with sequential film frames of Zapruder's pan which are all mathematically measurable from frame to frame and even with 1 frame removed the sequence instantly has a staccato effect.
I espouse professional gibberish, thank you very much. Unlike you, I actually put in the time to learn geomatics and photogrammetry, which I apply to my work every day. That's why I know you are a joke. Staccato effect, right! :D
Do you believe any frames are missing in this sequence? I set the animated gif to real time, which has Greer facing forward faster than the blink of your beady eye, mate.
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
Herbert an old member made a claim that the following woman had a frame removed at the time of the headshot but as can be seen in the video I edited and composited together, as soon as even 1 frame is removed it's instantly detectable. How about you prove your observations with something similar?
So you are comparing 1 copy of the Z film vs another? :D Axe yourself why the FBI returned a copy to Zapruder and kept the original, which they sure as hell edited. There are at least 3 splices which cannot be attributed to Zapruder.
What? It's your claim and so far all you've got is some 2d stickman representation that isn't even remotely Kennedy's position. I thought you were some sort of photogrammetry wizard, this sort of stuff should be a walk in the park?
I know you are dumb, but not that dumb. You know damn well how the re-enactment works and you have already done it and were heartbroken at your results. It's the reason you stopped posting here, otherwise, you would have posted your results faster than a magic bullet.
Here are my results, sucka:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/Dal-Tex.jpg)
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
Don't forget mention where you stole this from.
Now now Robocop I did not steal it, I only shared the information, and can you tell me why you snoop on what webpages I visit for my research? Do you have a warrant?
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No, I wouldn't. But what does that have to do with Greer's "orders" and whether he complied?
:D Everyone knows you are merely an armchair photoshopper with zero training in photogrammetry. So you equate video gifs with 8mm film? For that alone, you fail.
I espouse professional gibberish, thank you very much. Unlike you, I actually put in the time to learn geomatics and photogrammetry, which I apply to my work every day. That's why I know you are a joke. Staccato effect, right! :D
Do you believe any frames are missing in this sequence? I set the animated gif to real time, which has Greer facing forward faster than the blink of your beady eye, mate.
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
So you are comparing 1 copy of the Z film vs another? :D Axe yourself why the FBI returned a copy to Zapruder and kept the original, which they sure as hell edited. There are at least 3 splices which cannot be attributed to Zapruder.
I know you are dumb, but not that dumb. You know damn well how the re-enactment works and you have already done it and were heartbroken at your results. It's the reason you stopped posting here, otherwise, you would have posted your results faster than the blink of an eye.
Here are my results, sucka:
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/Dal-Tex.jpg)
No, I wouldn't.
Exactly.
But what does that have to do with Greer's "orders" and whether he complied?
His orders from whom, wasn't his boss JFK? Do you think JFK told Greer to slow down?
:D Everyone knows you are merely an armchair photoshopper with zero training in photogrammetry.
WOW!
Give me one example of a professional photoshopper that required training in photogrammetry.
Btw you do know what "photogrammetry" is right? and if you do then please tell us how the 2 correlate?
So you equate video gifs with 8mm film? For that alone, you fail.
Yes, we're talking about film editing and to construct a video gif takes a lot of careful editing.
No one has edited film the old fashioned way for decades but the basic principle never changes, therefore any example I have and I have plenty as opposed to you having none, will logically be based in the digital realm. But at the end of the day we're talking about taking a piece of film and altering it as you say to "speed up the Limo" but how you go about this you haven't yet explained.
Btw in my teen years I made and edited together a few 8mm sfx films with tabletop sets and spaceships, gorey make-up, stop motion and other dorky cool stuff and let me tell you working with tiny film is a pain in the ass and I would love for you finally to explain what they did. And what would be a neat experiment for a "photogrammetrist", is to grab some 8mm film clips that were taken with Zapruder's type of camera from Youtube then extract the frames and then speed up a random object in the clip and with the benefit of digital editing let's see what you can come up with?
(https://grantsnaithyr1.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/soviet-montage.jpg?w=840)
Do you believe any frames are missing in this sequence? I set the animated gif to real time, which has Greer facing forward faster than the blink of your beady eye, mate.
Real time? The alternating clip you've borrowed from somewhere on the internet has totally eliminated frames 318 and 319 and is in no way real time, you can't be serious, you obviously don't understand any of these concepts and with each post you just dig a deeper hole but by all means keep digging and you might actually learn something, eventually?
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
So you are comparing 1 copy of the Z film vs another? :D
It doesn't matter what film it is, the fact that when you remove even 1 frame from a continuous piece of film, it's always easy to spot.
:D Axe yourself why the FBI returned a copy to Zapruder and kept the original, which they sure as hell edited.
Being sure is not the same as giving us an technical explanation, which for a man in your position should be quite easy? Hehehe.
Anyway besides the gory headshot Life Magazine printed almost all the key frames and a lot of interconnected images meaning that your FBI had just a few days to alter a sequence of hundreds of 8mm film frames and then on top of that produce a photo realistic result, you're lack of knowledge allows you to dream but the real world simply doesn't work like that. In the following Zapruder clip I edited in the Life frames showing how any alteration is only possible in the imagination of a "photogrammetrist".
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZmjYfwR/life-nov-29-1963-1-copy-zpsda75052e.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdw1JShx/life-nov-29-1963-2-copy-zpsb77337a3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmyqMzjK/Zap-life.gif)
There are at least 3 splices which cannot be attributed to Zapruder.
Show us and let's compare what's happening within the frames and see what's cut out.
JohnM
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Exactly.
His orders from whom, wasn't his boss JFK? Do you think JFK told Greer to slow down?
I suppose I'm expected to respond to your ramblings. And yes, I think JFK told Greer to slow down so someone could blow his head off. ::)
WOW!
Give me one example of a professional photoshopper that required training in photogrammetry.
Btw you do know what "photogrammetry" is right? and if you do then please tell us how the 2 correlate?
You are no professional photoshopper let alone a photogrammetrist. And yes, I do know what photogrammetry means, you obviously don't.
Yes, we're talking about film editing and to construct a video gif takes a lot of careful editing.
Don't embarrass yourself further.
No one has edited film the old fashioned way for decades but the basic principle never changes, therefore any example I have and I have plenty as opposed to you having none, will logically be based in the digital realm. But at the end of the day we're talking about taking a piece of film and altering it as you say to "speed up the Limo" but how you go about this you haven't yet explained.
Why do you refuse to learn anything? You speed up the limo by decimating frames of course. Make a copy of a film using an optical printer and you can build the copy 1 frame at a time and edit each frame any way you like. That's how they've made films since the 1920s, capeesh?
Btw in my teen years I made and edited together a few 8mm sfx films with tabletop sets and spaceships, gorey make-up, stop motion and other dorky cool stuff and let me tell you working with tiny film is a pain in the ass and I would love for you finally to explain what they did. And what would be a neat experiment for a "photogrammetrist", is to grab some 8mm film clips that were taken with Zapruder's type of camera from Youtube then extract the frames and then speed up a random object in the clip and with the benefit of digital editing let's see what you can come up with?
All you have is experience farting around with images, but what have you learned from it?
Real time? The alternating clip you've borrowed from somewhere on the internet has totally eliminated frames 318 and 319 and is in no way real time, you can't be serious, you obviously don't understand any of these concepts and with each post you just dig a deeper hole but by all means keep digging and you might actually learn something, eventually?
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
See, you don't understand the significance of anything. I created that gif and I set the speed of the frames at 18 fps, which was supposedly the speed of the Z-film. You need to understand this stuff to analyse film. If my gif is in real time then there appears to be frames missing, capeesh?
It doesn't matter what film it is, the fact that when you remove even 1 frame from a continuous piece of film, it's always easy to spot.
Evidently not for some.
Being sure is not the same as giving us an technical explanation, which for a man in your position should be quite easy? Hehehe.
What I'm sure of is that you know squat about film and image analysis.
Anyway besides the gory headshot Life Magazine printed almost all the key frames and a lot of interconnected images meaning that your FBI had just a few days to alter a sequence of hundreds of 8mm film frames and then on top of that produce a photo realistic result, you're lack of knowledge allows you to dream but the real world simply doesn't work like that. In the following Zapruder clip I edited in the Life frames showing how any alteration is only possible in the imagination of a "photogrammetrist".
Show us and let's compare what's happening within the frames and see what's cut out.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, for some.
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
Don't forget mention where you stole this from.
Now now Robocop I did not steal it, I only shared the information, and can you tell me why you snoop on what webpages I visit for my research? Do you have a warrant?
I am waiting on you reply, as to why/how you snoop on what research pages I look at?
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I suppose I'm expected to respond to your ramblings. And yes, I think JFK told Greer to slow down so someone could blow his head off. ::)
You are no professional photoshopper let alone a photogrammetrist. And yes, I do know what photogrammetry means, you obviously don't.
Don't embarrass yourself further.
Why do you refuse to learn anything? You speed up the limo by decimating frames of course. Make a copy of a film using an optical printer and you can build the copy 1 frame at a time and edit each frame any way you like. That's how they've made films since the 1920s, capeesh?
All you have is experience farting around with images, but what have you learned from it?
See, you don't understand the significance of anything. I created that gif and I set the speed of the frames at 18 fps, which was supposedly the speed of the Z-film. You need to understand this stuff to analyse film. If my gif is in real time then there appears to be frames missing, capeesh?
Evidently not for some.
What I'm sure of is that you know squat about film and image analysis.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, for some.
Far out Brussel sprout, you can't even fake you way out of a wet paper bag.
Why do you refuse to learn anything? You speed up the limo by decimating frames of course. Make a copy of a film using an optical printer and you can build the copy 1 frame at a time and edit each frame any way you like. That's how they've made films since the 1920s, capeesh?
1. The straight from the camera Zapruder film displays typical 8mm film grain that btw we can all analyse from the official digital reproductions, but what makes your theory so stupid is as soon as you copy the film even once you have twice the amount of film grain, then with each further edit you create even more film grain, until you have a muddy mess.
For instance, in the following two frames from the 70mm film The Black Hole, we can see close to original camera output as compared to the effect of multiple optical printer passes and the image becomes softer and less distinct with each pass, this is just basic 101 stuff. Also note how each sfx shot within the film is mostly locked off or very minimal movement because that was the limit at the time then compare this to the jerky handheld footage that Zapruder made.
(http://notonbluray.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Black-Hole-Laser-duel.png)
(http://notonbluray.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Black-Hole-Happy-Endings.png)
2. You are still stuck with the original 486 frames which must have shown harmonious motion at some stage but you reckon they took various elements and edited it all back together and created a photorealistic result straight from the camera that still shows no signs of alteration even 50+ years later? And don't forget each element had its own motion blur which when compounded with Zapruder's jerky motion make separating individual elements a feat only capable with digital manipulation.
3. The ghost images in the sprocket area are intrinsically linked to the images in the actual film which adds another layer if impossible complexity to your silly make believe.
4. We've already discussed and I have demonstrated that even removing one frame shows instantly but you now believe that they decimated the film and removed every 2nd or 3rd frame and somehow from a film which averaged 18.3 frames a second still had enough information to create a mathematically fluid piece of film?
From a technical position, Jack, you again are way out of your depth.
See, you don't understand the significance of anything. I created that gif and I set the speed of the frames at 18 fps, which was supposedly the speed of the Z-film. You need to understand this stuff to analyse film. If my gif is in real time then there appears to be frames missing, capeesh?
No, ffs Jack this is beyond Cinque and is just further proof of your utter incompetence, you removed frames 318 and 319, which of course will show an increased speed between movements, just what are you trying to prove?
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
JohnM
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1. The straight from the camera Zapruder film displays typical 8mm film grain that btw we can all analyse from the official digital reproductions, but what makes your theory so stupid is as soon as you copy the film even once you have twice the amount of film grain, then with each further edit you create even more film grain, until you have a muddy mess.
BS. Film isn't VHS.
2. You are still stuck with the original 486 frames which must have shown harmonious motion at some stage but you reckon they took various elements and edited it all back together and created a photorealistic result straight from the camera that still shows no signs of alteration even 50+ years later? And don't forget each element had its own motion blur which when compounded with Zapruder's jerky motion make separating individual elements a feat only capable with digital manipulation.
Wow. Did your gut tell you all this BS?
3. The ghost images in the sprocket area are intrinsically linked to the images in the actual film which adds another layer if impossible complexity to your silly make believe.
The only editing done to the Z-film was decimating a few frames, some splicing and maybe touching up a few frames. WTF does that have to do with the images between the sprockets?
4. We've already discussed and I have demonstrated that even removing one frame shows instantly but you now believe that they decimated the film and removed every 2nd or 3rd frame and somehow from a film which averaged 18.3 frames a second still had enough information to create a mathematically fluid piece of film?
..mathematically fluid piece of film? :D
From a technical position, Jack, you again are way out of your depth.
Versus someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about? I would fire you if you worked for me, but there is no way I'd hire you in the 1st place.
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
No, ffs Jack this is beyond Cinque and is just further proof of your utter incompetence, you removed frames 318 and 319, which of course will show an increased speed between movements, just what are you trying to prove?
:D Go ahead and add frames 318 and 319 to the gif and repost it if you like (if you can). Those frames were a blur which is why I left them out. But I made sure to set the time interval between frames 317 and 320 to 3 frames @ 18 fps = 0.17 sec. (which is twice as fast as the typical eye blink @ 0.33 sec).
You absolutely must learn this simple basic stuff before posting, else look the fool, yet again.
JTrojan
PS. When are you going to post your 2 laser re-enactment showing the path of the MB thru JFK? ;)
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Real time? The alternating clip you've borrowed from somewhere on the internet has totally eliminated frames 318 and 319 and is in no way real time, you can't be serious, you obviously don't understand any of these concepts and with each post you just dig a deeper hole but by all means keep digging and you might actually learn something, eventually?
He is serious. But he's also clueless.
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BS. Film isn't VHS.
Wow. Did your gut tell you all this BS?
The only editing done to the Z-film was decimating a few frames, some splicing and maybe touching up a few frames. WTF does that have to do with the images between the sprockets?
..mathematically fluid piece of film? :D
Versus someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about? I would fire you if you worked for me, but there is no way I'd hire you in the 1st place.
:D Go ahead and add frames 318 and 319 to the gif and repost it if you like (if you can). Those frames were a blur which is why I left them out. But I made sure to set the time interval between frames 317 and 320 to 3 frames @ 18 fps = 0.17 sec. (which is twice as fast as the typical eye blink @ 0.33 sec).
You absolutely must learn this simple basic stuff before posting, else look the fool, yet again.
JTrojan
PS. When are you going to post your 2 laser re-enactment showing the path of the MB thru JFK? ;)
BS. Film isn't VHS.
I don't know how that relates to what I said?
Instead of your blurry mess, here is a very high definition digital reproduction from Zapruder and the basic 8mm film grain structure can be easily seen and can be compared to a very well known standard, too bad this goes right over your head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFQx4s4v/veryhdzap.jpg)
The only editing done to the Z-film was decimating a few frames, some splicing and maybe touching up a few frames.
Hahaha, so removing a few frames is what you think dramatically increased the speed of the limo, no wonder you hid your theory! LOL! And then you go on to the vague "splicing and touching up" nonsense which means nothing to no one!
WTF does that have to do with the images between the sprockets?
Well at least now you acknowledge that there can be images between the sprockets, how far we have come young grasshopper.
The images between the sprockets are derived from information from the previous and next frames and shows that beyond doubt that no frames were removed.
(http://the-puzzle-palace.com/z212fld.jpg)
..mathematically fluid piece of film?
Yes the angle of Zapruder's camera can be mathematically plotted from frame to frame and a missing frame disrupts this logical natural flow.
I would fire you if you worked for me, but there is no way I'd hire you in the 1st place.
Geez, another manager, too bad you know squat about what your profession actually does.
:D Go ahead and add frames 318 and 319 to the gif and repost it if you like (if you can). Those frames were a blur which is why I left them out. But I made sure to set the time interval between frames 317 and 320 to 3 frames @ 18 fps = 0.17 sec. (which is twice as fast as the typical eye blink @ 0.33 sec).
You absolutely must learn this simple basic stuff before posting, else look the fool, yet again.
What the heck are you babbling about, your ripped off alternating gif shows ZERO time between frames 317 and 320 and completely dishonest.
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
You keep trying to bluff your way through this but you can't because you're too stoopid!
PS. When are you going to post your 2 laser re-enactment showing the path of the MB thru JFK? ;)
Ask your bro Weidmann, he did the actual experiment in Dealey Plaza and he swears on his pinky that it's impossible.
JohnM
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He is serious. But he's also clueless.
Thumb1:
JohnM
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Historical facts such as what happened during the period between the Civil War and World War II, thousands of African Americans were lynched in the United States. Lynchings were violent and public acts of torture that traumatised black people throughout the country and were largely tolerated by state and federal officials. These lynchings were terrorism. ?Terror lynchings? peaked between 1880 and 1940 and claimed the lives of African American men, women, and children who were forced to endure the fear, humiliation, and barbarity of this widespread phenomenon unaided.
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
Don't forget mention where you stole this from.
Now now Robocop I did not steal it, I only shared the information, and can you tell me why you snoop on what webpages I visit for my research? Do you have a warrant?
I am waiting on you reply, as to why/how you snoop on what research pages I look at?
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Now now Robocop I did not steal it, I only shared the information, and can you tell me why you snoop on what webpages I visit for my research? Do you have a warrant?
I am waiting on you reply, as to why/how you snoop on what research pages I look at?
Feel that lump on your shoulders? It's hollow.
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Feel that lump on your shoulders? It's hollow.
What are you talking about? why and how are you looking at pages I visit for research????
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He is serious. But he's also clueless.
Maybe you no-nothings (including Myttonhead & Lamson) can straighten me out then. Given the Z-film speed of approx. 18 fps, what time interval should I set between those 2 frames to display the gif in real time? Why don't 1 of you dufuses add those missing frames to the gif and set the time interval to 1/18th sec instead of 3/18th sec. Otherwise, you and Myttonhead obviously know nothing about film so everything you guys post is more LNer BS:
Still waiting for your 2 laser re-enactment. Myttonhead has done it and now he plays dumb, which he is very good at. Because if either of you had proof it was possible both of you would post your results faster than a MB.
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/Dal-Tex.jpg)
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Maybe you no-nothings (including Myttonhead & Lamson) can straighten me out then. Given the Z-film speed of approx. 18 fps, what time interval should I set between those 2 frames to display the gif in real time? Why don't 1 of you dufuses add those missing frames to the gif and set the time interval to 1/18th sec instead of 3/18th sec. Otherwise, you and Myttonhead obviously know nothing about film so everything you guys post is more LNer BS:
Earth to Jack
Earth to Jack
Your gif shows ZERO seconds between frames Z317 and Z320.
Here's your gif with the movement isolated, do you understand now?
(https://i.postimg.cc/RV7zyWBy/stoopidjacka.gif)
JohnM
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Do you believe any frames are missing in this sequence? I set the animated gif to real time, which has Greer facing forward faster than the blink of your beady eye, mate.
(http://www.readclip.com/images/Z317_Z320.gif)
Do you believe any frames are missing in this sequence?
Yes. In your alternating GIF there is two missing frames.
In the following GIF centered on Greer's head, I went back a little further to see the position of Greer's torso and as can be easily seen Greer's entire upper half is turned sharply inward towards Kennedy, so your entire premise is based on deception, Greer is not turning his head 180 like Linda Blair but all Greer is doing is a 90 degree turn across his body in the timeframe of about 4 frames
(https://i.postimg.cc/RF22pnJ0/greer-head-turn-z314-z320a.gif)
JohnM