Or do you require a POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, NOTARIZED STATEMENTS, AND DNA SAMPLES?[/size]
I require more than just your say-so. For one thing, why should I believe you when you say that Unger mislabeled anything?
Secondly, why don't you just post the photos and mark who it is you're talking about instead of writing paragraphs and paragraphs of obtuse descriptions?
Thirdly, how does any of this show that the guy next to the Betzner blob is named John Templin?
Iacoletti,
1) In his yellow-labeled Z-151 frame, Robin Unger got six people wrong
2) I already have posted Betzner-3 and Willis-5, Iacoletti. They're in that long article by John Hunt, Jr. at the McAdams website. All you have to do is scroll down and find them.
3) Have you read that 2012 Dallas News article about Templin and Brandt yet, Iacoletti?
How do you imagine that Unger and Roberdeau actually labeled them correctly (they did, btw)?
No, you posted obtuse descriptions of them and links to offsite pages rather than just posting the photos and annotating them with who you are talking about.
And you still have provided ZERO evidence to support your identifications of Templin and Brandt, or how you decided that Templin was standing next to "tall woman" in Zapruder. Nor have you marked where you think you see "glasses" on Betzner-blob.
Indeed I have. All is says is that Brandt "waved around a blurry photo", and that he was wearing a fedora that day. It doesn't say what photo or where he was in the photo. BFD.
I don't know. But if you are going to cite them as authoritative, you better know how they made their determinations. Particularly when you've picking and choosing what they got right and what they got wrong.
According to the Sixth Floor Museum, Dallas News and other sources, 37 year-old Ernest Brandt was wearing his fedora hat while he and his 21 year-old customer, John Templin, were standing together on the sidewalk on the north side of Elm Street, "near the Grassy Knoll."
Interesting, then, that when we look at, in sequence, Altgens-6, Croft, Zapruder, Betzner-3, Willis-5, Bronson-5, and the Bronson film, we do not see two men standing together anywhere on the sidewalk on that side of the street. Not to mention near the GK, and with one wearing a fedora hat! -- Except, of course, for Robin Unger's and Don Roberdeau's correctly-labeled Templin and Brandt.
| (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2438/4515/products/product-image-350339932@2x.jpg) | (http://iacoletti.org/jfk/z130-hat.jpg) |
And regarding Tall Girl's glasses, let me remind you that it was you that noticed them in Betzner-3 (obviously after having suspected them and then enlarging her face to confirm your suspicion) a couple of months ago.
You really don't remember calling her "Glasses Woman," John?
"Wild" guesses?
Yes. Absolutely wild guesses.
"Wild guesses"?Mr Graves:
Iacoletti,
What kind of evidence do you require?
Never mind.
It would appear that a statement made to a smiling and nodding host (Stephen Fagin) while viewing one's "self" wearing a hair-hiding scarf and a figure-hiding raincoat from behind and 54 years after-the-fact is good enough for you.
LOL
-- MWT ;)
It would appear that a statement made to a smiling and nodding host (Stephen Fagin) while viewing one's "self" wearing a hair-hiding scarf and a figure-hiding raincoat from behind and 54 years after-the-fact is good enough for you.
I know the following simplified explanation will probably be "lost" on you, but regarding those two photos (Betzner-3 and Willis-5) which were taken about a second apart and in which the Queen Mary was progressing from right to left and therefore obscuring different spectators from the photographers' lenses as it went along, the point is that by realizing Abraham Zapruder is visible near the center of both photos and, concomitantly, that the two photographers, Betzner and Willis, were standing only a few feet from each other as far as Zapruder's LOS was concerned, ... well, one can easily realize that John Templin is in both photos, standing to the immediate left of your "Glasses Woman" (i.e., the tall black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing gal) in Betzner-3, and standing to the immediate right of his buddy, suit-and-fedora-hat-wearing Ernest Brandt in Willis-5, and that it can therefore be unequivocally stated that that short sequence of spectators on the north side of Elm Street was comprised of, from right to left in Zapruder and obviously with no one else in between them: Ernest Brandt, John Templin, and ... gasp ... (your) "Glasses Woman".
Please note that Ernest Brandt can be seen in Betzner-3 -- or at least the very tip of the peak of his trademark fedora hat, as it peeks up from behind the right shoulder of a SS agent like some kind of strange "bump".
[G]iven that you can?t see ?tall woman? in Willis, or ?hat man? in Betzner, how do you even know it?s the same guy, much less that his name is Templin?
And LOL at the ?trademark fedora hat?. Stop pretending more familiarity with these people than you actually have. We?ve already discussed that ?hat man??s brim is too small to be a fedora.
See that out-of-place dark "bump" on the right shoulder of SS agent William "Tim" McIntyre (standing behind Clint Hill) in Betzner-3, Iacoletti?
Speaking of "fedora," it's not surprising in the least that you, John "Mr. Disingenuous" Iacoletti, would post a photo of the widest-brimmed one you could find.
Here's one with a much narrower brim, wouldn't you agree?
No.
That's what a fedora looks like.
Despite the caption, that's not a fedora, it's a trilby.
Does the top of Mcintyre's right shoulder look normal to you?
Exactly. Now apply that to Tom's "shoulder bump".
If that's the case, then Tommy's "shoulder bump" is not a hat. It's too far away from the guy you keep calling Templin.
So then do it, already. And then explain why you're only looking west.
PS Betzner-3 was taken simultaneously with Z-186/187,
Then why did you post a link to Z-151 to make your case?
Because that's the frame we're all familiar with, compliments of Robin Unger, who tried several years ago to set in stone the identities of the people in it, and got only about half of them right.
Maybe you'll find one in which Templin and Brandt are playing hopscotch or something.
Says you.
I?m still waiting for a coherent argument that these people are even named Templin and Brandt. Just because there?s a hat?
Iacoletti,
Do you see two white guys standing together anywhere else on the north side of Elm Street, and at a point that could be even remotely called "halfway," and with the older of the two wearing a "fedora" hat?
PS Along the same lines, did you ever find (light-complected) Karan Hicks and Carol Reed "interspersed" with the non-South West Publishing Company employees in the crowd near the mythological "halfway point"? (Unless, of course, you agree with Westbrook that the dark-complected, poofed-up-black-hair gal "next to" the Stemmons Sign is, ".. uhh, probably Carol Reed", in which case you only need to find Hicks.)
You really don?t need to put my name in every post.
So many assumptions...
How do you know Templin and Brandt were white?
How do you know they were on the north side of Elm street?
How do you know they were at a point that could remotely be called halfway?
How do you know that hat man is older?
How do you know that hat man is wearing a fedora?
From behind and 56 years later? :D
You keep forgetting that Karen Westbrook:
- was there
- was good friends with Gloria Calvery and saw her every day
- also identified herself from the front in Willis 5 (or as you call it "Willis 3")
On the other hand, your only source regarding the identification of Gloria Calvery in Zapruder is:
Oh yeah, and from the minusculeWillis-5Willis-3 images of, in reality, blue-headscarf-wearing Sharron Simmons, strawberry blondish-haired Gloria Holt, and self-described American Indian, Stella Mae Jacob.
In that equally great identification of herself inWillis-5Willis-3, she was obviously confusing the very light blue headscarf she wore that day with Sharron Simmons' light blue one.
PS Westbrook remembered her old buddy Gloria Calvery so incredibly well that she referred to her as "Gloria Calvert" (sic) at least once in that interview, IIRC.
It's not just people's names you chronically get wrong. You can only see "blue-scarf-lady" in Willis FIVE. And Simmons is SHARON.
Too bad you don't actually know what color scarf Simmons was wearing. Or how "light" Westbrook's scarf was. You're just making it all up.
Says the guy who knows these people so well that he calls them John Fagin, Sharron Simmons, etc.
Iacoletti,
But thanks for implying that my... gasp ... horrendous mistakes are as momentous (or as "grave," if you will) as Karen Westbrook's all-time xxxx-up in her Sixth Floor Museum interview has turned out to be.
Speaking of mistakes, please tell us once again why you changed your mind about "Glasses Woman" in Betzner-3.
Maybe you should just start 5 new threads about it.
Iacoletti,
1) In your desperation to not have to follow my lead by (gasp) referring to her as "black blouse - black headscarf woman" (or some-such thing),
and your "fortuitously" noticing that she was possibly wearing glasses in that photo, and (hooray!) confirming for yourself by enlarging her face a bit that she really was wearing glasses ...
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
No, but you wouldn't be here effing-up gullible newbies, those who can't see very well, and even "established researchers" who ... uhh ... can't think very critically.
Because Graves says so? :D
Iacoletti,
John Templin, Ernest Brandt, Jean Newman, and June Dishong are four of the very few people, along with A. J. Millican and journalists Aurelia Lorenzo, Mary Woodward, Ann Donaldson, and Maggie Brown, and, down the street, the Newmans and the Chisms, that Robin Unger and (in his early map) Don Roberdeau actually got right on the north side of Elm Street sidewalk.
John Iacoletti denies that it can be proved from the photos and films that his "Glasses Woman" in Betzner-3 is Big-Tall, Black-Blouse And Black-Headscarf-Wearing Woman (Gloria Calvery) in the Zapruder film.
However ...
If he were to were to read Dallas News' November 2012 article https://www.dallasnews.com/news/downtown-dallas/2012/11/22/two-eyewitnesses-reunite-once-a-year-on-anniversary-of-kennedys-death about JFK assassination witnesses Ernest Brandt and John Templin, ...
... and if he were to look at Robin Unger's infamous yellow-labeled Zapruder-151 frame and at Don Roberdeau's Map and find in them (gasp ... correctly-labeled!) Ernest Brand standing next to his (gasp ... correctly labeled!) 21 year-old friend John Templin, ...
... and if he were to look at the people, cars, and background in Betzner-3 and compare them with the people, cars, and background in Willis-5, ...
... Scrolling down until he finds said photos, and then enlarge them to his heart's content --
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bunched3.htm
... taking special care to notice that John Templin is in both Betzner-3 and Willis-5), ...
... and if he were to take into consideration the fact that Hugh Betzner -- whose "Betzner-3" was taken simultaneously with Z-187 and 0.874/second before "Willis-5" -- was standing on the other side of Elm Street, about 30 feet behind and a little to the left of Phil Willis (per Zapruder's LOS at Z-187) on the other side of Elm Street, ...
... and if he were to realize that Robin Unger's seriously mislabeled Zapruder frame is Z-151, and that Betzner-3 was taken simultaneously with Zapruder-187, and that Willis-5 was taken simultaneously with Zapruder-202, ...
... and if he were to realize that Abraham Zapruder can be seen standing on his pedestal and very near the L-R center point of both Willis-3 and Betzner-5 ( http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bunched3.htm ; ignore the red circle around so-called Black Dog Man in Willis-5), ...
... and if he were to realize that both Phil Willis and Hugh Betzner are visible in the background of Unger's yellow-labeled Z-151 frame (or at least in a clearer frame near it), ...
... well gosh, taking all of the above together (I mean he IS capable of doing that sort of thing, isn't he?), ...
... he'd realize thatfedora-wearingtrilby-wearing Ernest Brandt can be seen standing next to John Templin in Willis-5, and that John Templin can be seen standing next to your "Glasses Woman" (Gloria Calvery) in Betzner-3.
-- MWT :)