JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:42:04 PM

Title: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:42:04 PM
When reviewing the testimony of William Whaley, the taxi cab driver who the Warren Commission accepted as the cabbie who transported Lee Oswald to Oakcliff, it is obvious that they glossed over or manipulated Whaley's statements.

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

It is a fact that President John Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM 11/22/63......

Since the official tale has Lee Oswald as the arch villain and Lone Nut who murdered JFK.....then he could not have been the passenger in Whaley's cab ......unless Lee Oswald had the ability to be at two different places at the same time.

I've always found Whaley's description of the man he transported to Oakcliff interesting.  Here he clearly thought the man had just got off a Greyhound bus and was a "Wino".......  There isn't a single photo of Lee Oswald in which he looks like Whaley's description.

When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.

Mr. BALL. He didn't run?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?

Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.




Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:54:05 PM
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When reviewing the testimony of William Whaley, the taxi cab driver who the Warren Commission accepted s the cabbie who transported Lee Oswald to Oakcliff, it is obvious that they glossed over or manipulated Whaley's statements.

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

It is a fact that President John Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM 11/22/63......

Since the official tale has Lee Oswald as the arch villain and Lone Nut who murdered JFK.....then he could not have been the passenger in Whaley's cab ......unless Lee Oswald had the ability to be at two different places at the same time.

I've always found Whaley's description of the man he transported to Oakcliff interesting.  Here he clearly thought the man had just got off a Greyhound bus and was a "Wino".......  There isn't a single photo of Lee Oswald in which he looks like Whaley's description.

When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.

Mr. BALL. He didn't run?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?

Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.




Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

Mr Mytton posted this.....
(https://s17.postimg.org/54pcujepb/flight.gif)

Whaley testified that the man entered his cab at 12:30......    Not 12:48.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Anthony Clayden on February 04, 2018, 08:16:01 PM
Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:12:08 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 04, 2018, 09:12:48 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

Would cars have had a time clock in the early 60's? Taxis must have kept a precise watch on the what hour of day it was.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:22:34 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

Whaley was required o keep a log of his trips.....He said he arrived at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.....and wanted to go inside to buy a package of cigarettes but this young man approached and requested his cab.....

Whaley KNEW that he arrived at 12:30.....  Which was the time of the murder.....  The murderer could not have been entering Whaley's cab and murdering JFK at the same time.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:27:20 PM
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM

Whaley's affidavit reads......."I was sitting at Lamar and Jackson at the Greyhound bus station a 12:30"----

It was NOT 12:48......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:29:41 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.


Exactly, Whaley's times didn't need to be precise.

Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.
Mr. BALL. Anything up to 15 minutes, you say?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I wrote that trip up the same time I wrote the one up from the Continental bus station to the Greyhound, I marked this 12:15 to 12:30 and started 12:30 to 12:45. And the next one starts at 1:15 to 1:30 and it goes on all day long every 15 minutes the time keeps pretty approximate.


Whaley didn't even use a watch.

Mr. BALL. That is right. I am glad you have that copy.
Mr. WHALEY. I thought maybe you might need it. You look down there it says Greyhound, 500 North Beckley, I think it is marked 12:30 to 12:45. Now that could have been 10 minutes off in each direction because I didn't use a watch, I just guess, in other words, all my trips are marked about 15 minutes each.


And Whaley then goes on to explain that the money and the trip meter were all that was required by the city ordinance.

Mr. WHALEY. It is a trip sheet manifest. The company gets the amount of money you have run, your meter reading and all, and they have to keep it because of the city ordinance requirement that the taxis make this kind of manifest.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:32:15 PM
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Whaley's affidavit reads......."I was sitting at Lamar and Jackson at the Greyhound bus station a 12:30"----

It was NOT 12:48......






He said he was sitting there at about 12:30 waiting for a fare.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 04, 2018, 09:42:43 PM
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM

Who added the word "around" to the affidavit?

When Frazier made a change to his affidavit he initialed it....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:45:10 PM
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Who added the word "around" to the affidavit?

When Frazier made a change to his affidavit he initialed it....




Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.




JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:51:52 PM
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JohnM

He said he was sitting there at about 12:30 waiting for a fare.

Nope!....Whaley said the time was 12:30..... Some Mytton like creature has attempted to insert the word "about".

But even if Whaley had said "about 12:30".....  and the time was actually 12:48. he would probably have said that the time was about 12:45 not 12:30...... 

And if the man entered his cab at 12:48 they could not have traveled the route the Liars said they did and arrived at the rooming house in just 12 minutes.   Even the police cars with lights and sirens took twenty minutes to travel from downtown Dallas to Oakcliff.....                       

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 04, 2018, 10:54:33 PM
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Whaley was required o keep a log of his trips.....He said he arrived at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.....and wanted to go inside to buy a package of cigarettes but this young man approached and requested his cab.....

Whaley KNEW that he arrived at 12:30.....  Which was the time of the murder.....  The murderer could not have been entering Whaley's cab and murdering JFK at the same time.

Very true
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 04, 2018, 11:36:08 PM
Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?

Of course he was, only a fool would believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 11:46:44 PM
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Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?

Of course he was, only a fool would believe otherwise.

If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:14:23 PM
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If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....

While I'm waiting for Mr Mc Breary to gather the courage to answer the question, perhaps Billy Bob will answer the question I asked of him in another thread.... 

I've moved that post into this thread .........

Billy Bob Brown wrote:...

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:36:14 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

That's silly.....  We've been "on the clock" since we became an industrialized nation.   On the farm the clock was unimportant.....   The sun regulated he work day.....  The work day was sunrise to sunset.....

I understand that you'd like us to believe that Whaley paid no attention to the clock....  But in reality he watched the clock very closely.  He knew EXACTLY how long it took to travel between points in Dallas.   

On a different note....
Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….

Question:  How many transfers did Lee have?   The cops removed one from his pocket at the time of his arrest, and they removed another one from his pocket at about 4:00pm when he was booked.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
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While I'm waiting for Mr Mc Breary to gather the courage to answer the question, perhaps Billy Bob will answer the question I asked of him in another thread.... 

I've moved that post into this thread .........

Billy Bob Brown weote:...

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.


So tell me Billy Bob.... HOW did the arch villain learn that "the authorities had learned about him at that point"

Do you believe that in addition to all of the other magical qualities that have been attributed to Lee Oswald,he had the ability to know what was transpiring ( you imagine was transpiring) back at the TSBD??
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 05, 2018, 04:36:28 PM
Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on February 05, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

And not being arrested. Sure.... :D
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 05:39:06 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

Ya....He was really rattled :-\....   Baker must have thought that Lee was the best actor he had  ever seen....  He had just blew JFK's brains out, but he was such a cool actor....that he showed not a hint of excitement or fear when Baker confronted him with his gun drawn...
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 05, 2018, 11:00:34 PM
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Only a fool would think that their unsupported opinion carries more weight than the actual evidence.

Only a fool would believe that my opinion which is actually a fact is not supported by the actual evidence and only a fool would believe that I would make a statement of fact without actual evidence. Your good at making unsupported opinions by twisting the actual evidence from reality into the fantasy realm in which you reside sir.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 05, 2018, 11:03:58 PM
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Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.

You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of xxxx stirring.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 05, 2018, 11:12:39 PM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie?

That's just one of Walt's many fabrications.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:30:15 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of xxxx stirring.

How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next.

Is this an admission that you don't know what Lee was feeling and thinking?  I'll assume that's what you intended....
So you'd guess that  Lee was guilty despite the fact that he DID NOT fit the description of the man who was dressed in the light colored khaki clothing who eye witnesses had seen behind a window on the sixth floor during the shooting...

And you'd guess despite the fact that you've said... How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? that he himself didn't know what he was going to do next.....  And he had said that he was going to the movies, and that's exactly what he did....  That' a pretty good indication that he knew what he was going to do....

He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows.

Yessiree....  Truly and Baker did see him just seconds after the gruesome murder ....and he wasn't the least bit frightened or nervous....   But you think he was so worried and apprehensive that he was nearly soiling his skivvies and he didn't know what he was going to do next.  I gotta tell ya Mr Anderson....  Your "thinking" isn't the most rational I've ever encountered...

Oh, by the way Mr McBrearty you forgot to answer the question.....

If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 01:04:04 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of xxxx stirring.


You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie?

  Damned if I know...... But that is what he was reported to have said, and I can't read his mind like some of you folks .

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley?? And as soon as JFK's brains hit the pavement those authorities were off and running so they could arrive at the rooming house ahead of Lee Oswald....

Do I have that right Mr Anderson?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:40:17 AM
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Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.


Quote
Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.

That's not at all what I said.

I would call you a liar, but in reality, I believe you just don't understand.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:45:37 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of xxxx stirring.


Quote
Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

After dealing with the likes of Caklebread, Iacoletti and Weidmann... it is refreshing to see a forum member who accurately states another member's position.

Thanks for that, John.

I basically said Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house to see if it was clear before getting out.  I never said what Cakebread (for some reason) is attributing to me, that Oswald was actually worried that the authorities would be waiting for him there.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:58:46 AM
How does this...

Quote
Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.


...lead you to conclude this....

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So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley??


???
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:37:57 PM
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That's not at all what I said.

I would call you a liar, but in reality, I believe you just don't understand.

I asked you if I had it right.....  And if I didn't, I asked you to explain it to me.... Is your memory that short? I'll find the post....

Ahh.....Here it is......."So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?

"Not at all."

Well perhaps you can explain it for me then.......?


Did you post that Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:49:58 PM
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After dealing with the likes of Caklebread, Iacoletti and Weidmann... it is refreshing to see a forum member who accurately states another member's position.

Thanks for that, John.

I basically said Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house to see if it was clear before getting out.  I never said what Cakebread (for some reason) is attributing to me, that Oswald was actually worried that the authorities would be waiting for him there.

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Mr Brown....perhaps you should change your avatar......   A sucker fish would be more fitting....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 11:52:15 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Mr Brown....perhaps you should change your avatar......   A sucker fish would be more fitting....

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 07, 2018, 12:38:39 AM
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Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley?? And as soon as JFK's brains hit the pavement those authorities were off and running so they could arrive at the rooming house ahead of Lee Oswald....

Do I have that right Mr Anderson?

You have some balls commenting on my rational then coming out with manure like this. The rest of your tripe aint worth commenting on.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 07:13:27 AM
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Good one Walt...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/40125635681_5b031f892f_b.jpg)
..and then attempted to delete it

Who attempted to delete what?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
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Who attempted to delete what?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 09:30:38 PM
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that would be YOU
but a quoted copy happened to remain


What the hell are you talking about?  I haven't tried to delete a single thing.

If I "attempted" to delete something, then it would be gone.  But, it's still there.  Right?

Including the old forum, I have been a member here for 9 years with thousands of posts.  I have never deleted any of them in an attempt to hide one, ever.  I'm not sure why you constantly lie.  You lower the general IQ of this forum.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 09:31:59 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?

I'm not concerned with your failure to understand exactly what I said.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:00:44 PM
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I'm not concerned with your failure to understand exactly what I said.

Hey...Billy,   It's a simple question....Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
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Hey...Billy,   It's a simple question....Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?

I have never said that law enforcement could have been at the rooming house less than twenty minutes after the murder.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:19:34 PM
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I have never said that law enforcement could have been at the rooming house less than twenty minutes after the murder.

But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm.... And using your scenario,    AFTER  he would have ridden four blocks past the rooming house ( then got out and paid the driver and started walking AWAY from the rooming house, then reversed his course and walked back to the rooming house .   The time consumed in the above imaginary scenario would have taken about ten minutes...... And since Lee arrived at 1:00 pm the law enforcement officers that you believe could have been there waiting for him would have had to have arrived before 12:50 pm..

And that's twenty minutes after JFK was murdered....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:41:06 PM
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But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm.... And using your scenario,    AFTER  he would have ridden four blocks past the rooming house ( then got out and paid the driver and started walking AWAY from the rooming house, then reversed his course and walked back to the rooming house .   The time consumed in the above imaginary scenario would have taken about ten minutes...... And since Lee arrived at 1:00 pm the law enforcement officers that you believe could have been there waiting for him would have had to have arrived before 12:50 pm..

And that's twenty minutes after JFK was murdered....


Quote
But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee...

No. I didn't.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
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No. I didn't.

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:57:17 PM
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well then..what happened to this post...

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/40125635681_5b031f892f_b.jpg)
..only left as a quote

My post is STILL THERE.

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."

Yes, I posted that and I stand by that.

But, you're mistakenly attributing far more than that to me.

I've already explained this.  Get a clue.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
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Yes, I posted that and I stand by that.

But, you're mistakenly attributing far more than that to me.

I've already explained this.  Get a clue.

What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 12:55:17 AM
Oswald tells the driver to go past his boarding house so he can check it out.
That doesn't mean the cops knew his address that early on.
It means Oswald was being cautious.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 12:58:50 AM
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What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?

I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 01:19:23 AM
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Oswald tells the driver to go past his boarding house so he can check it out.
That doesn't mean the cops knew his address that early on.
It means Oswald was being cautious.

Huh???.....  How could the cops go to any location without knowing the address??

And....   You imagine that Lee was being cautious ..and you ASSUME that he was being cautious because you imagine that he suspected the cops might be there waiting for him.

That idea is utterly nuts!.....   Lee knew that nobody knew that he had a rented room at 1026 N. Beckley.  So WHY would he imagine that the police could have arrived at his room faster than he did???

Has it ever occurred t you that IF IF Lee had been the passenger in Whaley's cab and he was worried about being intercepted and he hesitated to get to his room and out again a fast as possible, he would have been placing himself in greater jeopardy by walking the four blocks , back to the rooming house, right out in the open and wasting that time.


Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 01:34:45 AM
You're waffling man.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 01:42:16 AM
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You're waffling man.

Does "waffling" mean... kickin ass... where you live Mr Anderson?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 09:26:35 AM
London.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:14:58 PM
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What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?

I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.

Do you finally understand, now?  Or, do I need to explain it to you a third time?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 03:43:38 PM
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I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.

Do you finally understand, now?  Or, do I need to explain it to you a third time?

I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

But you fully endorsed  what you imagined Lee Oswald was thinking and the action you imagine he took.....

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

But now that you've been cornered and you realize your imagined scenario is not plausible....you're desperately attempting to wiggle under the door and escape.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
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I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

You still don't get it?

Typical.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 03:57:32 PM
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You still don't get it?

Typical.

Oh I get it alright.....  I know a back pedaler when I see one....   
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:58:59 PM
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Oh I get it alright.....  I know a back pedaler when I see one....

No backpedaling here.

I gotta call it like it is, you're just too damn dumb to understand, even though I have clearly explained it twice.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
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No backpedaling here.

I gotta call it like it is, you're just too damn dumb to understand, even thought I have clearly explained it twice.

No back pedaling?.....Let's take a look.

Billy Bob Brown wrote:...

"The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point. Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense." 

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
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Advice for Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=RfGDzgyeZPc

I think you're right, Steve.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 08, 2018, 07:22:03 PM
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To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

Well, given that you're not a mindreader, you don't actually know what Oswald wanted.  So we're left with deciding whether it even makes sense for Oswald to want to do this, given that nobody knew where he was living.

Or whether it makes more sense that Whaley's passenger told Whaley to take him where he actually was going.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 08:44:38 PM
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Well, given that you're not a mindreader, you don't actually know what Oswald wanted.  So we're left with deciding whether it even makes sense for Oswald to want to do this, given that nobody knew where he was living.

Or whether it makes more sense that Whaley's passenger told Whaley to take him where he actually was going.

AS I recall Whaley's passenger told Whaley he wanted to go to the 500 block of N. Beckley.... but he told Whaley to pull over and let him out before they reached the destination....  Apparently the man was watching the meter and realized that the dollar he had wasn't going to cover the fare to that destination. 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 08, 2018, 10:03:34 PM
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AS I recall Whaley's passenger told Whaley he wanted to go to the 500 block of N. Beckley.... but he told Whaley to pull over and let him out before they reached the destination....  Apparently the man was watching the meter and realized that the dollar he had wasn't going to cover the fare to that destination.

That's not what Whaley said in his affidavit.  He said "when I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped".
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 11:49:22 PM
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That's not what Whaley said in his affidavit.  He said "when I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped".

I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

I just checked.....

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 09, 2018, 12:06:24 AM
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I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 09, 2018, 12:37:28 AM
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In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.

Question:....  Wouldn't you conclude that Whaley's passenger in the blue Workman's clothing was watching the meter and knew he had only a dollar.....which wasn't enough for the fare to the 500 block of Beckley so he told Whaley to pull to the curb and got out a couple of blocks short of the 500 block?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 09, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
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In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Which is just another indication that Whaley was just a simple ( illiterate )cabbie who confused Neely with Neches....

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 10, 2018, 02:17:03 PM
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I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

I just checked.....

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?

Since the rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.....It's obvious that the 500 block was five blocks past the rooming house.

If Lee Oswald had been Whaley's passenger  he wouldn't have wasted time by driving five blocks past the rooming house and the walk back those five blocks.....  One block would have been sufficient if the passenger had been Lee Oswald and he wanted to check the area for signs that the faster than a speeding bullet Dallas police were waiting for him....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 10, 2018, 07:39:45 PM
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Since the rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.....It's obvious that the 500 block was five blocks past the rooming house.

If Lee Oswald had been Whaley's passenger  he wouldn't have wasted time by driving five blocks past the rooming house and the walk back those five blocks.....  One block would have been sufficient if the passenger had been Lee Oswald and he wanted to check the area for signs that the faster than a speeding bullet Dallas police were waiting for him....

Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 10, 2018, 08:03:23 PM
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Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.

Yes I know John....But you'd think that they would be smart enough to see how implausible and poorly reasoned their theory is....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 01:12:57 PM
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Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.

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Yes I know John....But you'd think that they would be smart enough to see how implausible and poorly reasoned their theory is....

Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 01:46:14 PM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
( LINK DELETED: Links To Abusive Websites Are Forbidden ) t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes..... 

 

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 05:38:10 PM
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Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
( LINK DELETED: Links To Abusive Websites Are Forbidden ) t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....


Quote
IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....

Nope.  I never said that.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 05:53:20 PM
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Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
( LINK DELETED: Links To Abusive Websites Are Forbidden ) t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....

In his original affdavit Whaley wrote that he was at the Greyhound bus station at 12:20.....

And he said nothing about a lady asking Whaley to call a cab for her.....  Which would have been unnecessary because the area in front of the Greyhound station was a designated Taxi stand.......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 06:11:27 PM
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Nope.  I never said that.

Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)   He would have saved about eight minutes if he had asked to be transported to the 900 block of N. Beckley.

IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

I think the obvious answer is....  Whaley was a bullSitting  cabbie who allowed his BSing to get him involved in a mess that the WC used in a fabricated scenario to frame Lee Oswald.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
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Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)   He would have saved about eight minutes if he had asked to be transported to the 900 block of N. Beckley.

IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

I think the obvious answer is....  Whaley was a bullSitting  cabbie who allowed his BSing to get him involved in a mess that the WC used in a fabricated scenario to frame Lee Oswald.


Quote
Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

Yes.


Quote
500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)

In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


Quote
IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 11, 2018, 11:47:03 PM
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Yes.


In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.



I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:14:30 AM
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Yes.


In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.

Here's what David Belin said....   It's not my suggestion....  Nearly six minutes to walk back to the rooming house and that's not counting the time in the cab or paying the driver, or walking AWAY from the rooming house....

Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

So ten minutes is a reasonable time.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:23:54 AM
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I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM

Mr Mytton you're not worth debating......  You can be shown solid FACTS and you ignore them and offer some stupid theory in rebuttal.  You're intellectually dishonest.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:34:06 AM
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I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM

Look at Whaley's manifest.....The last entry says the passenger paid $1.05 for a 4 mile ride.....

The wino who was wearing the blue Workman's uniform that Whaley transported from the Greyhound bus station to the 700 block of N. Beckley paid a fare of 95 cents and Whaley said the meter was just short of clicking to $1.05 when the man exited his taxi...IOW the trip was just short of 4 miles......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 12, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
And Clinton said  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky''.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:19:58 PM
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Why don't you explain this first?

Quote on

The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and took a bus AND A CAB to get to his rooming house room to retrieve the pistol and jacket.  But as John Mytton showed Captain Will Fritz testified to something else LHO said he did!

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

Quote off

We simply don't know how Lee was transported from the TSBD to the rooming house... to the theater.....

I believe most reasonable and intelligent folks can assimilate the facts and understand that Lee was NOT he passenger in Whaley's taxi.

And the WC lawyers certainly understood that fact because the worked diligently to  warp and twist the facts in this episode. Primarily by presenting the idea that Lee was guilty and needed to be sure here were no police awaiting his arrival at he rooming house.

When that idea is scrutinized it simply doesn't wash......

And neither does this account.....
He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show.

According to the reports filed by the various people at the Saturday interrogation, Lee told them that He had got off the bus and had  taken a taxi and he knew that he had paid 85 cents for that ride.   

IMO the fact that Lee said the fare was 85 cents is a solid indication that he did in fact take a taxi....but it was NOT William Whaley's taxi.

The 85 cent fare would have been the correct fare to transport him from the Greyhound bus depot to the intersection of  Zangs and Beckley.   Recall that Henry Wade told reporters that the cab driver's name was Daryle Glick.....or Click...

The question is:.....Why were the WC lawyers so determined to hide the truth about Lee Oswald's method of transport??? 

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 03:13:18 PM
Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the considerable trouble and risk to make up a bus and cab ride story?  Imagine the risk that entails in convincing random witnesses who are on the bus to confirm (or least not deny) that Oswald got on the bus.  And then a cab driver.  How would the conspirators even have a clue which bus or cab would be in position?  What would be the point since the bus went nowhere?  What if Oswald was seen elsewhere or arrested at the same time he was supposed to be on the bus or cab?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned event.  The only possible explanation in a conspiracy scenario is that the conspirators assisted Oswald in his getaway from the TSBD.  But why would they do this is they wanted him dead?  Why assist him in getting away from the TSBD but then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why take him there to begin with if they are assisting him?  Why not just keep driving for Mexico?  If they are not assisting him, why not just leave him at the TSBD?  If you are not suggesting a conspiracy here but simply that Oswald got to his boardinghouse via some other means on his own, it doesn't seem to matter much.  You are wrong but it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 03:27:18 PM
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Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the considerable trouble and risk to make up a bus and cab ride story?  Imagine the risk that entails in convincing random witnesses who are on the bus to confirm (or least not deny) that Oswald got on the bus.  And then a cab driver.  How would the conspirators even have a clue which bus or cab would be in position?  What would be the point since the bus went nowhere?  What if Oswald was seen elsewhere or arrested at the same time he was supposed to be on the bus or cab?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned event.  The only possible explanation in a conspiracy scenario is that the conspirators assisted Oswald in his getaway from the TSBD.  But why would they do this is they wanted him dead?  Why assist him in getting away from the TSBD but then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why take him there to begin with if they are assisting him?  Why not just keep driving for Mexico?  If they are not assisting him, why not just leave him at the TSBD?  If you are not suggesting a conspiracy here but simply that Oswald got to his boardinghouse via some other means on his own, it doesn't seem to matter much.  You are wrong but it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity.

It is amusing that you keep on asking questions based on the idea that "the conspirators" must have planned everything to minute detail in advance and you don't give a thought to the possibility of a narrative being constructed after the fact and using available (reliable or not) information.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 04:00:13 PM
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It is amusing that you keep on asking questions based on the idea that "the conspirators" must have planned everything to minute detail in advance and you don't give a thought to the possibility of a narrative being constructed after the fact and using available (reliable or not) information.

LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.  In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.  Even Houdini couldn't pull that off.  Did they also have a time machine to go back and figure out which bus and cab would have been in place at the correct times?  And that the bus went nowhere necessitating a fake cab ride.  And who would be on the bus etc.  It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact" as you stupidly suggest unless they had real time knowledge of the bus and cab in place at that moment.  And they could only know that if they planned this in advance.  I know that it is difficult for you to be anything other than a lazy contrarian but assume the fetal position in some dark place and try thinking for once. 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.  In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.  Even Houdini couldn't pull that off.  Did they also have a time machine to go back and figure out which bus and cab would have been in place at the correct times?  And that the bus went nowhere necessitating a fake cab ride.  And who would be on the bus etc.  It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact" as you stupidly suggest unless they had real time knowledge of the bus and cab in place at that moment.  And they could only know that if they planned this in advance.  I know that it is difficult for you to be anything other than a lazy contrarian but assume the fetal position in some dark place and try thinking for once.

LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 04:30:45 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.

Whew.  You are all over the place.  First it was planned after the fact.  Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.  Try to focus.  How would the conspirators know which bus would be in place at the right moment and who was on that bus?  How would they get someone on the bus to lie and confirm that Oswald got on?   How would they keep the others quiet?  Why add all these people to the conspiracy when the bus took Oswald nowhere and advanced his escape not one iota?  If the conspirators wanted Oswald dead, why give him any assistance after the fact and then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why not let him make his own way there or better yet knock him off at the TSBD?  Instead they give him a head start and cover story for how he reaches his boardinghouse necessitating the coordination of a complex web of facts in lightning speed that add multiple parties to the conspiracy at great risk for no apparent purpose except to put Oswald on a bus to nowhere.   Ridiculous.  You should beg forgiveness from intelligent people for even your feeble attempt to validate this nutty theory.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 04:59:04 PM
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Whew.  You are all over the place.  First it was planned after the fact.  Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.  Try to focus.  How would the conspirators know which bus would be in place at the right moment and who was on that bus?  How would they get someone on the bus to lie and confirm that Oswald got on?   How would they keep the others quiet?  Why add all these people to the conspiracy when the bus took Oswald nowhere and advanced his escape not one iota?  If the conspirators wanted Oswald dead, why give him any assistance after the fact and then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why not let him make his own way there or better yet knock him off at the TSBD?  Instead they give him a head start and cover story for how he reaches his boardinghouse necessitating the coordination of a complex web of facts in lightning speed that add multiple parties to the conspiracy at great risk for no apparent purpose except to put Oswald on a bus to nowhere.   Ridiculous.  You should beg forgiveness from intelligent people for even your feeble attempt to validate this nutty theory.

You really are not getting any of this, aren't you?

First it was planned after the fact. 

Now, you are just being plain weird. How in the world can anybody plan something after the fact? You can work with the available information and come up with a narrative, but that's something entirely different than planning something.

Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.

Really? Where did I say that?

The remainder of your last rant isn't worth any reply or discussion for one single reason; all that strawman crap in your head.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 05:26:29 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

Good Question!....  Did Lee have a bus transfer in his pocket when he was dragged from the theater ???...

Some reports say the cops pulled it from his shirt pocket while in the police car on the way to the police station....but the "official" report say it was taken from his pocket at the time he was booked at about 4:30 that afternoon.

Either way that transfer does NOT look like it's been handled roughly as it would have been if it had been in his shirt pocket at the theater......   It's possible that Lee received the transfer when he departed Mc Watter's bus and placed it in his shirt pocket.   Then when he changed shirts at the rooming house he forgot to remove the transfer ( it was useless at that point)  When the cops searched his room they took the reddish brown shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  to police headquarters and discovered the transfer.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 06:40:29 PM
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In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

Good Question!....  Did Lee have a bus transfer in his pocket when he was dragged from the theater ???...

Some reports say the cops pulled it from his shirt pocket while in the police car on the way to the police station....but the "official" report say it was taken from his pocket at the time he was booked at about 4:30 that afternoon.

Either way that transfer does NOT look like it's been handled roughly as it would have been if it had been in his shirt pocket at the theater......   It's possible that Lee received the transfer when he departed Mc Watter's bus and placed it in his shirt pocket.   Then when he changed shirts at the rooming house he forgot to remove the transfer ( it was useless at that point)  When the cops searched his room they took the reddish brown shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  to police headquarters and discovered the transfer.

Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 06:48:29 PM
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Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.


You'll probably need another century to figure it out, but nobody is talking about evidence being faked. Well, uh.... nobody except you!

Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?

Simple answer that will probably confuse you ever more: They didn't create that impression!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 07:22:08 PM
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The WC was stuck with Whaley who the DPD came up with.

The WC (and Whaley) get all entangled in this quarter hour trip time nonsense because BALL/BELIN have to work backwards from a close to one o'clock rooming house arrival. They settle on a Whaley triptime of 5:30, meaning "Oswald" entered cab @12:47/48 and exited @12:54.

Looking at Whaley's trip sheet the WC can't even get their start time inside the window in Whaley's trip sheet (12:30 - 12:45)!

This part of the testimony shows BALL is totally screwed when it comes to actual vs guestimated times:

Mr. WHALEY. 12 o'clock I got a call to the Travis Hotel. I have got it marked 16 which is the Continental bus station, stand No. 15, 55 cents. I unloaded that at 12:15.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go at 12:15 according to you record?
Mr. WHALEY. According to my record I got a pickup at the Continental bus station which is stand 16 and went to the Greyhound which is 55 cents. I unloaded at the Greyhound, I have got it marked 12:30. See there is that 15 minutes you say I am off, I just mark it 15, I don't put the correct time on the sheet because they don't require it, sir, but anywhere approximate.
Mr. BALL. In other words, it took you about 15 minutes to go--
Mr. WHALEY. It actually took about nine minutes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you put the trip ending Greyhound around 12:30?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

BOOM: The pre-"Oswald" trip actually started 12:21 and ended, ACTUALLY, at 12:30 as stated in Whaley's AFFIDAVIT.

Mr. BALL. You remember that trip, do you, you remember the fact that you took the trip to the Greyhound and parked your car at the Greyhound or your cab at the Greyhound, don't you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I remember it.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing at the Greyhound, at your cab stand at the Greyhound, long before you picked up another passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, there was no one at the Greyhound stand and when I unloaded at the door I just pulled up about 30 feet to the stand and stopped and then I wanted a package of cigarettes, I was out so I started to get out and I saw this passenger coming so I waited for him.

"Oswald" was there right after 12:30, just when he also left the TSBD - OOPS.

The Comission tried to dismantle that bomb by calling it speculation but was sunk by Whaley himself:

Speculation.—The log of the cabdriver who took Oswald to North
Beckley Avenue, William W. Whaley, shows that Oswald entered his
cab at 12 :30 p.m. Since this occurred at some distance from the point
of the President's assassination, Oswald could not have shot the
President.
GommAssion finding.—Whaley's log does show 12 :30 p.m., but he has
testified that he was not accurate in logging the time that passengers
entered his cab, that he usually logged them at 15-minute intervals,
and that it was undoubtedly some time later than 12 :30 when Oswald
entered his cab. Sometimes he did not make entries in his logbook
until three or four trips later. The bus transfer in Oswald's possession
was issued after 12 :36 p.m. The Commission has determined that
Oswald probably entered Whaley's cab at about 12 :47 or 12 :48 p.m.^54

NOTE early times in trip sheet where Whaley logs idle time as low as 10 minutes between trips.

BOOM: The pre-"Oswald" trip actually started 12:21 and ended, ACTUALLY, at 12:30 as stated in Whaley's AFFIDAVIT.

I believe Whaley said that he dropped a passenger at the Greyhound bus station at 12:15 and then sat awaiting a call.At 12:20 he was parked in front of the Greyhound Depot and then moved forward to be the next  cab out.....He thought he would have time to step inside  buy a pack of cigarettes when the "wino" who was dressed in blue workman's uniform , and rumpled clothes ( "he looked like he had slept in his clothes" ) hailed him and asked him for a ride.

His handwritten affidavit clearly says it was 12:20 when he was parked an awaiting his turn to be next in line.  The wino in the blue work cloths entered his cab at about 12:30.....he wino was NOT Lee Oswald..,
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 07:47:03 PM
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Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.

Who said anything about the bus transfer being faked as much f the so called evidence is???

Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?

HUH???.....   What the hell you been smokin??   I've never even hinted hat Lee wasn't on Cecil  Mc Watter's bus....( even though I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe)

I'm merely questioning how the transfer entered the evidence stream.....And due to it's pristine condition, I don't believe it was in Lee's pocket when he was dragged from the theater....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:18:31 AM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Whenever you can show that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:21:49 AM
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Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.

Talk about a circular argument!  Assume that Oswald was trying to evade the police in order to show that Oswald was trying to evade the police.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.

What Fantasy Conspirators, Strawman Smith?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:26:59 AM
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Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex?

They use it to make up for their lack of evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
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They use it to make up for their lack of evidence.

Yeah....Well it falls far short.    Mytton is probably the most intellectually dishonest person posting.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 13, 2018, 04:32:08 AM
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Whenever you can show that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that Oswald gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 13, 2018, 04:34:06 AM
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Yeah....Well it falls far short.    Mytton is probably the most intellectually dishonest person posting.

I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 03:43:21 PM
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Talk about a circular argument!  Assume that Oswald was trying to evade the police in order to show that Oswald was trying to evade the police.

Yes!.....But not only circular..... It's not even a sound rational theory......

And the very basic premise is:....Lee Oswald was guilty, and therefore he performed the irrational action depicted in the imaginary nutty scenario.... 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Gary Craig on February 13, 2018, 03:56:31 PM
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I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.

"I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner."

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/34513-see_hear_speak_no_evil.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
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"I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner."

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/34513-see_hear_speak_no_evil.jpg)

Hmmmm.... I was thinkin that Billy Bob hadn't seen Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner due to the location of his head.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 13, 2018, 04:09:52 PM
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What Fantasy Conspirators, Strawman Smith?

If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.  Like the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode away on from Ford's Theatre.  Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt.  When a CTer goes on and on that this cab ride was a fabrication that implies relevance in proving a conspiracy (e.g. it is a cover story for how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the conspirators gave him a ride).  But if you want to concede that the Whaley cab ride has absolutely no implications for proving a conspiracy (whether true or not) that is fine with me.  You can believe he sprouted wings and flew like a fairy.  I don't believe, however, that it what your fellow kooks are suggesting.  They are clearly implying the story was fabricated for some reason relating to the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:21:58 PM
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London.

Now I understand why your vision is so foggy......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 13, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
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Now I understand why your vision is so foggy......

You don't seem to understand much.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:40:35 PM
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If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.  Like the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode away on from Ford's Theatre.  Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt.  When a CTer goes on and on that this cab ride was a fabrication that implies relevance in proving a conspiracy (e.g. it is a cover story for how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the conspirators gave him a ride).  But if you want to concede that the Whaley cab ride has absolutely no implications for proving a conspiracy (whether true or not) that is fine with me.  You can believe he sprouted wings and flew like a fairy.  I don't believe, however, that it what your fellow kooks are suggesting.  They are clearly implying the story was fabricated for some reason relating to the conspiracy.

Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt......

I believe that you are right....   But the question and crucial point is:.....WHY?  WHY did LBJ's Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee  go to such lengths in twisting the facts , and dreaming up scenarios like Lee riding past he rooming house to see if there were police there awaiting his arrival.....as they clearly did.

Obviously they painted him as being guilty and then proceeded to  manipulate the times and chronology for the events between Lee's departure from the TSBD and his arrival at his room.....

They had to have known that Whaley was a BSer and the man he had transported was NOT Lee Oswald...Just as you have acknowledged.....   

What was their reason for framing Lee Oswald?....    Could it be that they talked to Daryl Glick the cabbie who actually transported Lee to the rooming house, and then waited at the curb as he went in and changed his clothes, and then took him to the theater?   

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 05:57:58 PM
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I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.

Mr Mytton posted the hand written affidavit of Bill Whaley......  That hand written affidavit clearly stated that Whaley was parked in front of the Greyhound Bus Station at 12:20 and waiting for a passenger to hire his taxi, and he departed with a passenger at 12:30.

Mr Mytton KNEW that information.....  and yet he argues that Whaley departed with the "Oswald" who was wearing a BLUE workman's uniform at 12:48.     

That is totally intellectually dishonest....  Is it not?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:20:39 PM
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After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that Oswald gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.

That's fine.  You're entitled to your own opinion regardless of how it's arrived at.

After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that there is no good reason whatsoever to assume that Whaley's passenger gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.

Your argument completely rests on this assumption making sense to you.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:23:20 PM
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If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.

Then why do LNers try to prop this up as somehow being evidence that Oswald killed Kennedy?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
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Could it be that they talked to Daryl Glick the cabbie who actually transported Lee to the rooming house

(http://fighttrolls.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aw_jeez.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 08:36:36 PM
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(http://fighttrolls.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aw_jeez.jpg)

Well I'm sure that Lee was NOT Whaley's passenger.....But I does seem that Lee did take a cab to the rooming house because he knew the fare was 85 cents.....   And Henry Wade DID give a name of a cab driver who transported Lee to the rooming house....and that name was NOT  William Whaley.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 08:39:44 PM
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Well I'm sure that Lee was NOT Whaley's passenger.....But I does seem that Lee did take a cab to the rooming house because he knew the fare was 85 cents.....   And Henry Wade DID give a name of a cab driver who transported Lee to the rooming house....and that name was NOT  William Whaley.....

No, he said "in Oak Cliff".

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 11:25:24 PM
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No, he said "in Oak Cliff".


Why did reporters think that Wade said Daryl Click??    How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 11:30:20 PM
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Why did reporters think that Wade said Daryl Click??

Because they didn't have a Youtube video to refer to.

Quote
    How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?

LOL
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 11:48:20 PM
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Because they didn't have a Youtube video to refer to.

LOL

How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?

LOL.... Likely or Logical
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 15, 2018, 04:31:28 PM
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No, he said "in Oak Cliff".


It is a fact that another cabbie was mentioned......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 15, 2018, 08:33:39 PM
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It is a fact that another cabbie was mentioned......

No it's not.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 15, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
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Remembered his watch that day...

Maybe he bought one with that 5 cent tip.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on February 16, 2018, 05:26:33 AM
Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Scully on February 16, 2018, 07:54:03 AM
The word shiny appears in your post seven times but both records of Whaley's 23 November claims do not include that word, at all.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23Nov.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 16, 2018, 01:09:31 PM
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Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.

Pssssst....Zeon...... Anybody who saw this photo saw the bracelet......

(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

There's only the BSer William Whaley's word that he saw a bracelet on his passenger's wrist.  Whaley said that his passenger was wearing BLUE workman's clothing....  A blue jacket and blue trousers.....

Lee Oswald was not wearing a Jacket.....and he was wearing a brown shirt and gray trousers.....

It's possible that Whaley's wino passenger was wearing a bracelet....   But it's equally possible that Whaley saw the photo  and used the bracelet to bolster his BS tale about transporting the killer.

 Whaley could have told his BSin cabbie buddies, "I had no idea he'd just murdered the President...why he could have killed me too"
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on February 17, 2018, 04:15:15 AM
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The word shiny appears in your post seven times but both records of Whaley's 23 November claims do not include that word, at all.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23Nov.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)

Are you implying that Whaleys WC testimony using the word "shiny" was his own embellishment or someone coached him to add the  word?
Or he saw the photo as Walts suggest, later, and that's when Whaley added the word "shiny"?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 17, 2018, 01:44:33 PM
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Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.

Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?

Do any of you amateur Attorney's know what Ball did in asking Whaley the above?   

Clue....   It's called... L------ the witness....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 17, 2018, 05:49:03 PM
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And Clinton said  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky''.

Clinton was an accomplished LNer......  He could tell the most obvious lie and then defend it as if it was the gospel truth...Just like a LNer.

PATHETIC!!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 18, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
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Are you implying that Whaleys WC testimony using the word "shiny" was his own embellishment or someone coached him to add the  word?
Or he saw the photo as Walts suggest, later, and that's when Whaley added the word "shiny"?

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then.
But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed
in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were
khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in
khaki.


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)

He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki.

In the last paragraph of the FBI report notice the FBI changed the color of the trousers that Whaley's passenger was wearing ...Whaley reported that the man was wearing a blue colored jacket and BLUE  trousers ...but the FBI changed Whaley's description  of his passenger's clothes so that the clothes matched the clothes that Lee left in his room after changing his clothes to go to the theater.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 19, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
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Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.


JohnM

If Whaley calculated time in fifteen minute increments and the man who was wearing the BLUE workman's uniform clothing approached his cab at 12:30, he would not have thought it was 12:45.....   

BTW.... Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 19, 2018, 09:51:46 PM
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If Whaley calculated time in fifteen minute increments and the man who was wearing the BLUE workman's uniform clothing approached his cab at 12:30, he would not have thought it was 12:45.....   

BTW.... Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?

 Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 05:46:19 PM
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Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?

Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 06:59:46 PM
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Walt, forget about Mytton, there's no way around "at 12:30".

He also chickened out of his astronomical numbers in the jacket thread.

I'd really like to debate Coward Mytton about William Whaley's hand written affidavits.....But the coward deleted the exhibits.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 07:34:13 PM
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But they will not go away in the Texas archives ;-)

Would you please post them......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 21, 2018, 05:54:33 PM
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Whaley drafts...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340663/?q=William%20whaley

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340356/?q=William%20whaley

Thanks Tom.....

Let's see what Whaley told LBJ's Cover Up committee.......

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500 block of North Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station* * *"
Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?
Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup.
Mr. WHALEY. Well, now, let's get this straight. You are getting me confused.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I will put it this way. There was an FBI reporter, FBI interviewer with you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; there was.
Mr. BELIN. And there was an interview with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes. And Bill Alexander from the district attorney's office was there, also.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now, the last sentence.
Mr. WHALEY. Let me tell you how they fixed this up. They had me in the office saying that. They were writing it out on paper, and they wrote it out on paper, and this officer, Leavelle, I think that is his name, before he finished and before I signed he wanted me to go with him to the lineup, so I went to the lineup, and I come back and he asked me which one it was, which number it was, and I identified the man, and we went back up in the office again, and then they had me sign this. That is as near as I can remember.

It looks to me that Whaley was illiterate...... Leavelle and an FBI agent jotted down what they understood Whaley to say......and Whaley signed the affidavits but could not read what had been written. 

It's very revealing that Whaley told the "stenographers" that he was at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:20 and picked up the man in the BLUE colored workman's clothes at 12:30.    The shyster lawyers on LBJ's Special Select Blue Ribbon Cover up committee  worked diligently to make that man into Lee Oswald and change the time to 12:45.......

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340663/?q=William%20whaley

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340356/?q=William%20whaley
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 21, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
I haven't read all the gibberish here but what exactly is being alleged?  That Whaley was in on the plot?  And his role was to lie about Oswald being in his cab to provide a cover story for Oswald getting to this boarding house for some unknown reason?  If Whaley was in on the plot, then why not actually have him drive Oswald instead of this fabrication?  Why make this up?  If you are not alleging that Whaley was in on the plot and was just mistaken about who he drove, then what difference does it make?  Oswald reached his boarding house via some means.  If there is no conspiratorial angle being alleged, it is just a matter of historical curiosity as to how. Of course, he took Whaley's cab.  But if you want to believe he got there in some other manner that has nothing to do with proving a conspiracy, then knock yourself out.  It's like knowing the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode after the Lincoln assassination.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 21, 2018, 06:26:43 PM
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I haven't read all the gibberish here but what exactly is being alleged?  That Whaley was in on the plot?  And his role was to lie about Oswald being in his cab to provide a cover story for Oswald getting to this boarding house for some unknown reason?  If Whaley was in on the plot, then why not actually have him drive Oswald instead of this fabrication?  Why make this up?  If you are not alleging that Whaley was in on the plot and was just mistaken about who he drove, then what difference does it make?  Oswald reached his boarding house via some means.  If there is no conspiratorial angle being alleged, it is just a matter of historical curiosity as to how. Of course, he took Whaley's cab.  But if you want to believe he got there in some other manner that has nothing to do with proving a conspiracy, then knock yourself out.  It's like knowing the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode after the Lincoln assassination.

If you are not alleging that Whaley was in on the plot and was just mistaken about who he drove, then what difference does it make?

Whaley wasn't "mistaken"  about his passenger ...he KNEW damned well that the man he transported was NOT Lee Oswald.... He was just a cabbie BSer who wanted to impress his fellow cabbies and got himself involved by braggin that he had transported the killer and was damned lucky he wasn't murdered too.

He wasn't "in on the plot".....But the difference it makes.....  Is the FACT that The WC lawyers KNEW that Whaley was FOS.   They weren't stupid.....  But they needed Whaley's account of driving by the rooming house .   That gave them the act to portray Lee Oswald as the guilty assassin who cautiously looked over the area around the rooming house prior to departing from the cab.  It's an absurd idea but many fools actually believe that happened.

Oswald reached his boarding house via some means.  If there is no conspiratorial angle being alleged, it is just a matter of historical curiosity as to how. Of course, he took Whaley's cab.  But if you want to believe he got there in some other manner that has nothing to do with proving a conspiracy,

Oswald reached his boarding house via some means.  If there is no conspiratorial angle being alleged, it is just a matter of historical curiosity as to how.

The conspiracy is revealed by the obvious desperation of the Warren Commission lawyers to portray Lee Oswald as a killer .....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 21, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
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If Whaley calculated time in fifteen minute increments and the man who was wearing the BLUE workman's uniform clothing approached his cab at 12:30, he would not have thought it was 12:45.....   

BTW.... Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?




This is why you fail, the post you replied to hasn't been edited therefore nothing was removed, and btw exactly what's stopping you from posting the written affidavits?



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 21, 2018, 06:33:46 PM
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He also chickened out of his astronomical numbers in the jacket thread.





-sigh- I explained the concept seven ways to Sunday and every time you simply couldn't grasp each detailed explanation, it's always been your problem, not mine.

Btw still going with your "bruise" theory? Hahaha!



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 21, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
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This is why you fail, the post you replied to hasn't been edited therefore nothing was removed, and btw exactly what's stopping you from posting the written affidavits?

JohnM

Do you now deny that you deleted the hand written affidavits because you're a coward who can't defend the information.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 21, 2018, 06:50:55 PM
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Do you now deny that you deleted the hand written affidavits because you're a coward who can't defend the information.



This isn't difficult, I can only delete something if I EDIT my post and the post you replied to wasn't EDITED.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 21, 2018, 09:44:00 PM
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I haven't read all the gibberish here but what exactly is being alleged?  That Whaley was in on the plot?  And his role was to lie about Oswald being in his cab to provide a cover story for Oswald getting to this boarding house for some unknown reason?  If Whaley was in on the plot, then why not actually have him drive Oswald instead of this fabrication?  Why make this up?  If you are not alleging that Whaley was in on the plot and was just mistaken about who he drove, then what difference does it make?  Oswald reached his boarding house via some means.  If there is no conspiratorial angle being alleged, it is just a matter of historical curiosity as to how. Of course, he took Whaley's cab.  But if you want to believe he got there in some other manner that has nothing to do with proving a conspiracy, then knock yourself out.  It's like knowing the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode after the Lincoln assassination.

Here we see Richard's usual approach of "I'm too lazy to read what you wrote, so I'll just make something up to argue against".
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 22, 2018, 12:42:48 AM
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Then it should be no problem to post your numbers. Will you fail, again?



That's illogical, your inability to understand the concept has nothing to do with me, again it's your lack of intellect holding you back and I'm afraid there's no cure for Stupid!



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 22, 2018, 03:24:53 AM
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The Concept was about something being close to astronomical in relation to show-ups.

You claimed this something, a number I assume, was close to astronomical and at the same time said that "astronomical" was a lot more than this something.

That number is?



Stop talking gibberish, you're not making sense!



JohnM

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 22, 2018, 01:09:29 PM
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Why did the WC even bother to ask Whaley if he knew Click if it was just a "transcription error" as claimed?

Mr. BALL. Do you know a taxi driver named Darrell Click?

Mr. WHALEY. I may know his face, sir, but not his name.

Mr. BALL. You don't know his name?

Mr. WHALEY. We go mostly by numbers.

What would be the point?

I believe the Taxi Driver who transported Lee Oswald  was named Glick....  It most certainly was NOT William Whaley!....

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 22, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
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Here we see Richard's usual approach of "I'm too lazy to read what you wrote, so I'll just make something up to argue against".

Don't be to critical of Mr Smith....He's a bit handicapped and can't reason well.  He can't grasp ideas that are the least convoluted.....and the idea that Lee Oswald would have rode past the rooming house to  check to see if the police were there waiting for him is superficially a very simple idea and easily accepted by simple minds....However when that idea is examined rationally it becomes obvious that it's a ludicrous and convoluted irrational theory. 

Ya can't blame Mr Smith for being unable to see the point .....It's beyond his ability......

Mr Smith... The point is:..... The men who "investigated" ( I use the term loosely) the murder of John Kennedy were all well educated men...   They were not stupid....  And yet they spent days (and piles of tax payers dollars ) in "investigating" a BS story of an illiterate Taxi Driver.  WHY?   Did they pick up Whaley's tale and then twist and distort his written record of his activities instead of merely confronting him with that record and challenge his wild tale.

Whaley himself told them that his tale could be ripped apart by any attorney worth his law ticket.

And that brings us to the point.....  Those highly intelligent "investigators"   were hiding something....

I can only speculate that the information they were hiding was the truth about how Lee Oswald was transported from the TSBD to the rooming house to the Texas Theater.

Personally, I believe that Lee did take a taxi from the bus depot to the rooming house,( and possibly a continuation on to the Theater)

I believe those "investigators"  knew who transported Lee in his Taxi..... And Mr " Click" told them that he never took his passenger, Lee Oswald, anywhere near  the Tippit murder scene.....





Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 22, 2018, 06:34:57 PM
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Possibly. If Click didn't exist as the WC defenders claim, why didn't Whaley say this?

Can you accurately transcribe Henry Wade's words?.....  Or post the news paper account of what the reporters heard Wade say?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 22, 2018, 11:17:13 PM
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Your total was?



1/1024.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 22, 2018, 11:55:38 PM
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The Concept was about something being close to astronomical in relation to show-ups.

You claimed this something, a number I assume, was close to astronomical and at the same time said that "astronomical" was a lot more than this something.

That number is?

There are lies, damned lies, and John Mytton's made up statistics.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 22, 2018, 11:59:52 PM
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Can you accurately transcribe Henry Wade's words?.....  Or post the news paper account of what the reporters heard Wade say?

Listen for yourself:


"caught a taxi cab driver . . . in Oak Cliff"
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 23, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
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There are lies, damned lies, and John Mytton's made up statistics.

Don't mind his made up lies and statistics he is just another one.
http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Mytton
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 07:45:19 AM
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Didn't you have a total of six witnesses?


Yep.

The first witness has a choice of 1 in 4 of choosing No.2.
The second witness has a choice of 1 in 4 of choosing No.2
And so on, for all 6 witness's.

The amount of options therefore is 4 raised to the 6th power.

4/4 to the 6th power = 1/4 to the 5th power = 1/1024



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 08:15:34 AM
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4^6 equals 4096, so only one of the 4096 options is correct, right?

Not sure what you're expressing in your last line...



The first person can pick any random number then the next 5 have a 1 in 4 chance of picking the first persons random number hence we are left with a 1 in 4^5 chance of all the people picking the same number.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 09:34:14 AM
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They can not be dependent. Oswald's position in each lineup can be any one of four. Each witness has a 1/4 probability of a random correct pick.




Do you dispute the 6 eyewitnesses 1 in 1024 chance of all randomly picking Oswald?



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 23, 2018, 05:18:26 PM
Nobody claimed that the lineup picks were random events.  Nor were they even independent events.  That's where your statistical analysis fails.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 05:46:50 PM
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Nobody claimed that the lineup picks were random events. 



Well duh, of course there was nothing random about picking Oswald, he was the man they all saw.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 23, 2018, 06:15:07 PM
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Well duh, of course there was nothing random about picking Oswald, he was the man they all saw.

I know that's what you believe, but your bogus argument here is that either Oswald was the man they all saw, or they all randomly picked the same guy.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 07:36:37 PM
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As you state it yes, they are four times worse.

Like six persons rolling a four-sided dice looking for exactly one combination.

Probability of choosing the same number

Q. Assume n people choose a number between 1 and k uniformly at random, simultaneously. What is the probability that any two of the n people get the same number?
I tried: The probability that two people choose the same number is 1k. There are (n/2) different pairs. How to proceed from this?

Thanks.


A.(https://s17.postimg.org/49zqfl5i7/probability_k_n.jpg)
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/509679/probability-of-choosing-the-same-number




Probability of choosing same number

Q. There are four friends – Adam, Bella, Christopher and Drew. All of them are asked to choose any number in their mind. Now what is the probability that every one of them has the same number in mind? The chosen number must be in between 1 to 5 (including 1 and 5).

A1. Without loss of generality, let's say Adam picks first. The probability that the other 3 choose the exact same number as Adam is 1/5∗1/5∗1/5, which gives the result of 1/125.

Note: this answer presumes that the numbers are chosen at random.

A2. Another way to see the problem.
Total number of outcomes when 4 people are free to choose a number between 1 and 5 are equal to 5^4 (or 625)
Outcomes when everyone chooses the same number are 5.
Hence, probability = 5/625 = 1/125

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1384661/probability-of-choosing-same-number


JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 23, 2018, 11:24:31 PM
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https://mathflight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/4-4-multiplication-rule-basics.pdf

Please view page 4, example "homicide case".



If that's a legitimate source then I can't argue with that, it certainly fits all the parameters.

Ironically I first wrote down 1 in 4096 because that was the amount of options and then because I'm a bit rusty I thought I'd better check and came up with many examples similar to my post above which seem to make sense?

Q. There are four friends – Adam, Bella, Christopher and Drew. All of them are asked to choose any number in their mind. Now what is the probability that every one of them has the same number in mind? The chosen number must be in between 1 to 5 (including 1 and 5).

A1. Without loss of generality, let's say Adam picks first. The probability that the other 3 choose the exact same number as Adam is 1/5∗1/5∗1/5, which gives the result of 1/125.

Note: this answer presumes that the numbers are chosen at random.




JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 24, 2018, 02:15:47 PM
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If that's a legitimate source then I can't argue with that, it certainly fits all the parameters.

Ironically I first wrote down 1 in 4096 because that was the amount of options and then because I'm a bit rusty I thought I'd better check and came up with many examples similar to my post above which seem to make sense?

Q. There are four friends – Adam, Bella, Christopher and Drew. All of them are asked to choose any number in their mind. Now what is the probability that every one of them has the same number in mind? The chosen number must be in between 1 to 5 (including 1 and 5).

A1. Without loss of generality, let's say Adam picks first. The probability that the other 3 choose the exact same number as Adam is 1/5∗1/5∗1/5, which gives the result of 1/125.

Note: this answer presumes that the numbers are chosen at random.


JohnM

because I'm a bit rusty 

 You sure are!.....  You should be this candid more often.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2018, 01:23:32 PM
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I think you selected the right solution to the wrong problem, I've underlined the culprit.

In our case this translates to the 6 witnesses all selecting the same person in the lineup but NOT restricted to Oswald.

The best analogy I can come up with is putting four numbered balls in a jar and let 6 persons in turn pick a ball, announce the number and puts the ball back. In your example Adam picks first and the rest must comply with Adam's choice, all ones, twos etc. There are four valid outcomes. Probability is 1/4^5 = 1/1024.

In the correct solution one red ball (Oswald) and three blue balls (the fillers) are put in a jar. Each person in turn picks a ball, announces the color and puts the ball back. Only one outcome is valid: all red. No numbering of each person in the lineup is needed as we're only interested in wheather red (Oswald) is picked or not. Probability is 1/4^6 = 1/4096.

Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--what I want to know is, before you went down, had they already put on there a statement that the man you saw was the No. 8 man in the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.
Mr. BELIN. Did they have any statements on there before you went down to the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I never saw what they had in there. It was all written out by hand. The statement I saw, I think, was this one, and that could be writing. I might not even seen this one yet. I signed my name because they said that is what I said.
Mr. BELIN. Well, Mr. Whaley---
Mr. WHALEY. I know, sir, but I don't think you can understand what I had to put up with that afternoon.

Whaley was illiterate and had no idea what they had written...

"I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2018, 01:48:59 PM
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Whaley was illiterate and had no idea what they had written...

But he did fill out a trip sheet, we're told...

Yes....... he could record numbers from the odometer and keep a record .....

This is strange......  Belin asks Whaley if the "stenographers" had placed the suspect's ID number on the affidavit PRIOR to his viewing the line up...

Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--what I want to know is, before you went down, had they already put on there a statement that the man you saw was the No. 8 man in the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
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Have a look at Montgomery's report, top paragraph...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190215/m1/5/?q=montgomery%20report

I believe that this is the affidavits that Whaley saw and recognized as writing but couldn't read what was written....

Whaley drafts...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340663/?q=William%20whaley

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340356/?q=William%20whaley
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2018, 03:35:39 PM
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Have a look at Montgomery's report, top paragraph...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190215/m1/5/?q=montgomery%20report

Yes..... Originally Whaley said that he picked up the "Wino" in the BLUE workman's clothing at 12:30 and deposited him 15 minutes later at 12:45 in Oakcliff.

The Lawyers on LBJ's  Special Select Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee KNEW that Bull Shipper Bill Whaley had not transported Lee Oswald.....  but rather than challenge him and dismiss his BS tale they HELPED him fabricate the lie.

Do you know WHEN  Henry Wade gave the reporters the information about a cab driven by Darrel Click?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
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Do you know WHEN  Henry Wade gave the reporters the information about a cab driven by Darrel Click?

No, but I seem to recall the newspaper article was posted on the forum before it got blasted. Someone should know where to find it.

Did Wade refer to the taxi PRIOR to 12:00 pm Noon Saturday?......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 26, 2018, 02:30:54 PM
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Do you know WHEN  Henry Wade gave the reporters the information about a cab driven by Darrel Click?

No, but I seem to recall the newspaper article was posted on the forum before it got blasted. Someone should know where to find it.


I believe that someone posted a video of Henry Wade talking to reporters after the  midnight exhibition of Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald .....   And I believe that it was during that briefing that Wade mentioned the taxi driver Darrel Click.  ......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 26, 2018, 03:40:23 PM
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I believe that someone posted a video of Henry Wade talking to reporters after the  midnight exhibition of Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald .....   And I believe that it was during that briefing that Wade mentioned the taxi driver Darrel Click.  ......

Was there any "Darrel Click" registered as a cab driver in the Dallas area? 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 26, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
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Was there any "Darrel Click" registered as a cab driver in the Dallas area?

Good question......   Do you know if there would be any record?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 26, 2018, 10:42:50 PM
Mark Lane tried to find out. 

"I spoke with a Mr. Roseboro of the Teamsters Union--they have organized the taxi drivers in Dallas--and asked him if he knew--if he could give me any information about a Daryl Click. He said he did not have the name in his files. but Texas being a right-to-work law State, it is possible, he said, that Mr. Click was a driver but not a member of that union. He referred me to the personnel department of the City Transportation Co., which he told ,he was the one company monopoly running all the taxis in Dallas.
I spoke with the City Transportation Co. personnel office, Mr. Pott, as I recalled, who checked the records, and indicated to me that there was no Daryl Click who drove a taxi in Dallas."
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
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The audio has been posted already, but that could have been edited. Furthermore, I can't imagine an outfit as big as the NYT relying on a transcrber's copy when they had at least one person there (probably more).

This isn't a huge issue that is why Mark Lane dropped it. There is no evidence showing that LHO ever took a cab. If we are going to believe in things that have no supporting evidence then it is just as likely that he received a car ride to his rooming house.

Perhaps it's not a huge issue but LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Cover up Committee certainly worked hard to obfuscate the issue.....

It should be obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that William Whaley's tale was nothing but a simpleton's BS.....And Whaley admitted it.

Lee Oswald was NOT the "Wino" who was dressed in BLUE workman's clothing that Whaley picked up at the bus station at 12:30 and dropped at Beckley and Neely at 12:45 and who he charged 95 cents for the ride.....

Lee Oswald knew he had paid 85 cents for the taxi to the rooming house......And he was NOT at the bus station at 12:30 and he was NOT dressed in Blue Workman's clothing,....

Let's imagine that Lee took a taxi to the rooming house.....looked at the meter and saw the fare was 85 cents..... and gave the driver five dollars and asked him to wait five minutes because he wanted to continue the trip to the theater after he changed his clothes.

(Whaley said that the request for five dollars was a routine practice)

But when Lee came out of the rooming house the driver had left and basically stolen $4.15.....   That driver wouldn't want to expose himself as a thief.......so he wouldn't tell anybody that Lee Oswald had planned to go to the theater and was no where near the Tippit murder scene.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 27, 2018, 06:24:48 PM
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The audio has been posted already, but that could have been edited. Furthermore, I can't imagine an outfit as big as the NYT relying on a transcrber's copy when they had at least one person there (probably more).

This isn't a huge issue that is why Mark Lane dropped it. There is no evidence showing that LHO ever took a cab. If we are going to believe in things that have no supporting evidence then it is just as likely that he received a car ride to his rooming house.

"No evidence" except Oswald's admission that he took a cab and the confirmation of the cab driver. LOL.  What else could there ever be to confirm such a fact except the admission of the only two people on planet Earth in the cab?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2018, 08:08:34 PM
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"No evidence" except Oswald's admission that he took a cab and the confirmation of the cab driver. LOL.  What else could there ever be to confirm such a fact except the admission of the only two people on planet Earth in the cab?

"No evidence" except Oswald's admission that he took a cab and the confirmation of the cab driver.

It does appear to be a fact that Lee said he took a cab when the bus became stalled in traffic......All of the reports of the men in the Homicide off allude to Lee taking a cab to the rooming house and he paid 85 cents for the ride.

the confirmation of the cab driver.

Only a person who lacks the guts to face reality or the ability to reason would deduce that Whaley "confirmed" that Lee Oswald was his passenger. 


Whaley DESCRIBED a man who clearly was NOT Lee Oswald who he picked up at the bus depot at 12:30 ( just as the shots were being fired) and Whaley said the man did NOT go to the rooming house and the man's fare was 95 cents.  

I can't imagine how Lee would have known that the fare from the bus depot to the rooming house as 85 cents....unless he actually paid that fare.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 27, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
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I can't imagine how Lee would have known that the fare from the bus depot to the rooming house as 85 cents....unless he actually paid that fare.

I don't recall you ever actually demonstrating that the fare from the bus depot to the rooming house would have been 85 cents.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2018, 11:01:43 PM
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I don't recall you ever actually demonstrating that the fare from the bus depot to the rooming house would have been 85 cents.

It was 95 cents to Beckley and Neeley.....  A quarter mile back the fare would have been 85 cents.....Is this too complicated for you?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 27, 2018, 11:14:05 PM
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It was 95 cents to Beckley and Neeley.....  A quarter mile back the fare would have been 85 cents.....Is this too complicated for you?

Sure, once you demonstrate that the fare to Beckley and Neeley (Whaley originally said 500 block of Beckley) actually would have been 95 cents and that it was 10 cents for an additional quarter mile.  Besides,the difference is actually 0.4 miles.  You're just pulling numbers out of your ass.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Scully on February 28, 2018, 12:23:29 AM
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Sure, once you demonstrate that the fare to Beckley and Neeley (Whaley originally said 500 block of Beckley) actually would have been 95 cents and that it was 10 cents for an additional quarter mile.  Besides,the difference is actually 0.4 miles.  You're just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Since 1937, there was only one city council authorized taxi cab operator in Dallas.:

Soooo....it is supported below that the initial fare of 2/5 mile was 45 cents and add'l 2/5 mile was 10 cents. 95 cents bought 10 - 5ths,
i.e., 2 miles. From June 15, 1964, increased initial fare of 1/3 mile was 45 cents and add'l 1/3 mile was 10 cents. $1.05 bought 6 - 3rds,
i.e., 2 miles.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/DallasCabFare1963_1of2.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/DallasCabFare1963_2of2.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 28, 2018, 12:30:35 AM
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Sure, once you demonstrate that the fare to Beckley and Neeley (Whaley originally said 500 block of Beckley) actually would have been 95 cents and that it was 10 cents for an additional quarter mile.  Besides,the difference is actually 0.4 miles.  You're just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Which is greater 1/4  mile  or 4/10 mile?.....   .250   or .40....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 28, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
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Sure, once you demonstrate that the fare to Beckley and Neeley (Whaley originally said 500 block of Beckley) actually would have been 95 cents and that it was 10 cents for an additional quarter mile.  Besides,the difference is actually 0.4 miles.  You're just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Do you deny that Lee told the interrogators that the taxi fare was 85 cents?.....   I don't have to prove why the fare was 85 cents.   

But ....based on William Whaley's testimony and records .....I believe that 85 cents was a logical fare to the rooming house.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 28, 2018, 06:10:56 PM
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Which is greater 1/4  mile  or 4/10 mile?.....   .250   or .40....

You apparently think they're equal since you claimed it's a quarter mile from Beckley and Neeley to the rooming house.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 28, 2018, 06:12:48 PM
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Do you deny that Lee told the interrogators that the taxi fare was 85 cents?.....   I don't have to prove why the fare was 85 cents.   

Yes you do.  You're the one who claimed that the fare would have been 85 cents from the bus station to the rooming house.  It doesn't matter what Oswald may or may not have told the interrogators.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 28, 2018, 06:28:35 PM
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Soooo....it is supported below that the initial fare of 2/5 mile was 45 cents and add'l 2/5 mile was 10 cents. 95 cents bought 10 - 5ths,
i.e., 2 miles. From June 15, 1964, increased initial fare of 1/3 mile was 45 cents and add'l 1/3 mile was 10 cents. $1.05 bought 6 - 3rds, i.e., 2 miles.

Thanks Tom.  Google Maps shows Whaley's route to be 2.1 miles to the rooming house, 2.5 miles to Beckley and Neeley, and 2.6 miles to 500 N Beckley.

Your numbers give us 87.5 cents to rooming house, 97.5 cents to Beckley and Neeley and $1.00 to 500 N Beckley.

Your second screenshot got cut off.  Can you confirm the 10 cents for additional 2/5 mile?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 28, 2018, 08:18:31 PM
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Thanks Tom.  Google Maps shows Whaley's route to be 2.1 miles to the rooming house, 2.5 miles to Beckley and Neeley, and 2.6 miles to 500 N Beckley.

Your numbers give us 87.5 cents to rooming house, 97.5 cents to Beckley and Neeley and $1.00 to 500 N Beckley.

Your second screenshot got cut off.  Can you confirm the 10 cents for additional 2/5 mile?

Psssst Johnny.....  I believe the half cent coin was discontinued many decades prior to 1963.....(discontinued 1857).   And the meters in taxis did not increment by less than five cents.....   So only a loon would believe that Lee paid 87 1/2 cents .......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 28, 2018, 10:05:29 PM
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Psssst Johnny.....  I believe the half cent coin was discontinued many decades prior to 1963......   And the meters in taxis did not increment by less than five cents.....   So only a loon would believe that Lee paid 87 1/2 cents .......

LOL.  I don't believe that Lee paid 87 1/2 cents.  I'm sure it got rounded.  So yeah, it's plausible that he could have been charged 85 cents had he caught a cab from the Greyhound stand to the rooming house.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 12:02:59 AM
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LOL.  I don't believe that Lee paid 87 1/2 cents.  I'm sure it got rounded.  So yeah, it's plausible that he could have been charged 85 cents had he caught a cab from the Greyhound stand to the rooming house.

Plausible.....And that is what Lee said he paid the driver ( Darrel Click ?) .....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 01:06:01 PM
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LOL.  I don't believe that Lee paid 87 1/2 cents.  I'm sure it got rounded.  So yeah, it's plausible that he could have been charged 85 cents had he caught a cab from the Greyhound stand to the rooming house.

Very good.....   So we agree that Lee Oswald's statement that he paid a taxi fare of 85 cents is plausible.....and he was NOT the "wino" in the BLUE WORKMAN'S CLOTHING that paid Bull Shipper Bill Whaley 95 cents for the ride that took him nearly  half mile PAST the rooming house
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 01, 2018, 05:21:16 PM
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Plausible.....And that is what Lee said he paid the driver ( Darrel Click ?) .....

There was no freakin' Darrel Click, FFS.

Just as plausible: he looked at the meter as he passed the rooming house and saw that it said 85 cents.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 06:16:33 PM
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There was no freakin' Darrel Click, FFS.

Just as plausible: he looked at the meter as he passed the rooming house and saw that it said 85 cents.

Yeah right!!....  You believe that Lee Oswald who looked to Whaley like a "wino" who was dressed in Blue Workman's clothes ( of which he owned none) was worried that the police might be at the rooming house  would be equally worried about the taxi meter.....

Thanks for demonstrating your inability to reason rationally......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 01, 2018, 07:13:57 PM
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Yeah right!!....  You believe that Lee Oswald who looked to Whaley like a "wino" who was dressed in Blue Workman's clothes ( of which he owned none) was worried that the police might be at the rooming house  would be equally worried about the taxi meter.....

When did I ever say I believe that?

Quote
Thanks for demonstrating your inability to reason rationally......

The guy with 85 fabrications and who believes in a fantasy cab driver named Darrel Click is hardly a standard of rationality.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 07:54:34 PM
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When did I ever say I believe that?

The guy with 85 fabrications and who believes in a fantasy cab driver named Darrel Click is hardly a standard of rationality.

C'mon Johnny...... You should know that ad hominem  isn't very effective....and it reveals that the person using it has just been knocked on his arse....and is desperately trying to respond....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 01, 2018, 10:02:58 PM
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C'mon Johnny...... You should know that ad hominem  isn't very effective....and it reveals that the person using it has just been knocked on his arse....and is desperately trying to respond....

And you telling me that some crap that you invented as my belief demonstrates my inability to reason is not ad hominem?  You think that anybody who doesn't swallow your fabrications is irrational.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 10:39:52 PM
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And you telling me that some crap that you invented as my belief demonstrates my inability to reason is not ad hominem?  You think that anybody who doesn't swallow your fabrications is irrational.

Oh No, that's not true.....But when facts are presented ( like the 85 cent fare) that is Not a fabrication... whereas the official tale that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger IS a fabrication....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 01, 2018, 10:46:47 PM
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Oh No, that's not true.....But when facts are presented ( like the 85 cent fare) that is Not a fabrication... whereas the official tale that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger IS a fabrication....

There's no evidence beyond Oswald's say so that he paid an 85 cent fare to anybody.  Just like there's no evidence beyond Oswald's say so that he changed his shirt.  You're free to speculate and assume, but don't go calling them facts.  You're doing just what the LNers do.

I have no trouble with the postulation that Whaley's passenger was somebody else -- his story is full of inconsistencies.  That doesn't entitle you to make stuff up to support it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 01, 2018, 11:15:11 PM
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There's no evidence beyond Oswald's say so that he paid an 85 cent fare to anybody.  Just like there's no evidence beyond Oswald's say so that he changed his shirt.  You're free to speculate and assume, but don't go calling them facts.  You're doing just what the LNers do.

I have no trouble with the postulation that Whaley's passenger was somebody else -- his story is full of inconsistencies.  That doesn't entitle you to make stuff up to support it.

Let me get this straight..... You accept the nonsense handed to you by the authorities and do not call them fabrications ...even though an intelligent and reasoning person can clearly see that they are fabrications.....

But if someone exposes their lie by producing plausible evidence that they were lying like the 85 cent taxi fare then that person id "making stuff up"....   Do I have this right? 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 02, 2018, 12:08:49 AM
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But if someone exposes their lie by producing plausible evidence that they were lying like the 85 cent taxi fare then that person id "making stuff up"....   Do I have this right?

No, not even close.  What you call "plausible evidence" is just stuff that you completely invent out of whole cloth because you think it's "reasonable".  Like the whole Brennan west window thing.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 02, 2018, 01:16:58 PM
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No, not even close.  What you call "plausible evidence" is just stuff that you completely invent out of whole cloth because you think it's "reasonable".  Like the whole Brennan west window thing.

So you accept the fabricated tale that was created by LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Committee that was based on William Whaley's obvious Bull Stuff.....   While rejecting  the statement of Lee Oswald that he paid a taxi driver 85 cents to transport him to the rooming house even though Lee would have had no reason to invent the taxi ride.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 02, 2018, 10:54:06 PM
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So you accept the fabricated tale that was created by LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Committee that was based on William Whaley's obvious Bull Stuff.....   While rejecting  the statement of Lee Oswald that he paid a taxi driver 85 cents to transport him to the rooming house even though Lee would have had no reason to invent the taxi ride.

Who said I accept the WC version?  That doesn't automatically mean that your fabricated tales win.  Do you have some evidence that Oswald paid anyone 85 cents for a taxi ride?  Who was this cab driver (and don't say Darrel Click)?  Where is his log sheet?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 03, 2018, 01:12:02 AM
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Who said I accept the WC version?  That doesn't automatically mean that your fabricated tales win.  Do you have some evidence that Oswald paid anyone 85 cents for a taxi ride?  Who was this cab driver (and don't say Darrel Click)?  Where is his log sheet?

Who was this cab driver (and don't say Darrel Click)?  Where is his log sheet?

Are you really this naive and obtuse?

The authorities were not interested in verifying anything Lee Oswald told them.....  In their warped and biased minds he was a cop killer and  they only wanted evidence that supported their accusations.....even if they had to fabricate that evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 05, 2018, 11:09:35 PM
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Who was this cab driver (and don't say Darrel Click)?  Where is his log sheet?

Are you really this naive and obtuse?

The authorities were not interested in verifying anything Lee Oswald told them.....  In their warped and biased minds he was a cop killer and  they only wanted evidence that supported their accusations.....even if they had to fabricate that evidence.

So no evidence then.  And anyone should believe your evidence-less made up story because...?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2018, 12:24:40 AM
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So no evidence then.  And anyone should believe your evidence-less made up story because...?

Because the official tale is utter BS.......  You can see that...Can't you?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2018, 07:50:03 PM
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Because the official tale is utter BS.......  You can see that...Can't you?

The way to counter a BS story is not to create another BS story.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2018, 08:33:32 PM
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The way to counter a BS story is not to create another BS story.

How do you propose to expose the truth?   It should be obvious that the conspirators and the investigators were one and the same....    After the murder they "investigated" and any evidence that didn't implicate their patsy Lee Harrrrrvey  Osssswald was obscured or destroyed  ( Dr Pepper bottle, Viceroy cigarette package) .....and evidence that did implicate Lee Oswald was fabricated....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2018, 10:26:49 PM
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How do you propose to expose the truth?   It should be obvious that the conspirators and the investigators were one and the same....    After the murder they "investigated" and any evidence that didn't implicate their patsy Lee Harrrrrvey  Osssswald was obscured or destroyed  ( Dr Pepper bottle, Viceroy cigarette package) .....and evidence that did implicate Lee Oswald was fabricated....

At some point we have to just accept that the quality of the evidence that we do have is not sufficient to render a conclusion.  At least until something new turns up.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2018, 12:00:50 AM
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At some point we have to just accept that the quality of the evidence that we do have is not sufficient to render a conclusion.  At least until something new turns up.

At least until something new turns up.

How naive can you be?   The conspirators went through the evidence with a fine tooth comb.....  They destroyed anything that implicated them in the murder.  There's not going to be anything "turn up"....    And there are far too many suckers like you who lack the guts to use their own God given brain.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 07, 2018, 12:12:06 AM
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At least until something new turns up.

How naive can you be?   The conspirators went through the evidence with a fine tooth comb.....  They destroyed anything that implicated them in the murder.  There's not going to be anything "turn up"....    And there are far too many suckers like you who lack the guts to use their own God given brain.

And by "use their own God given brain", you mean fabricate stories that you have no evidence for.

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2018, 12:43:31 AM
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And by "use their own God given brain", you mean fabricate stories that you have no evidence for.

YES!!    That's right......  But It takes a wee bit of guts to challenge the official BS and present alternative more plausible scenarios.....

The tale of the taxi ride is one of the easiest official tales to expose as utter BS.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Scully on March 07, 2018, 03:17:01 AM
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Who said anything about the bus transfer being faked as much f the so called evidence is???

Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?

HUH???.....   What the hell you been smokin??   I've never even hinted hat Lee wasn't on Cecil  Mc Watter's bus....( even though I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe)

I'm merely questioning how the transfer entered the evidence stream.....And due to it's pristine condition, I don't believe it was in Lee's pocket when he was dragged from the theater....

There is no record of Whaley's professed award of the Navy Cross. Whaley was born in June, 1908 as recently as in the information displayed on
his son William W Whaley, Jr's 1931 birth certificate, but since then he was born in 1905 although his parents married in 1907 according to Hopkins
County, TX records and the same familoy bible that describes Whaley's birth as in 1908.

His son and namesake William's 1997 obit lists William Jr's aunt Alice Patterson as his mother and mentions no father.
Whaley Sr's obit does not mention his namesake son, William, Jr.

Mary Bledsoe and RD Matthews have the same first cousin, Jewell Ralston Germany, Jr. because Matthews's mother's sister Adelaide married Mary Bledsoe's
uncle, Jewell Ralston Germany, Sr.  in 1919.:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,305.msg8410.html#msg8410
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census.jpg)

Quote
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=165942208
Matthews, RD (Russell D.) 92, A WWII, 2nd Marine Division, veteran, who was awarded The Navy Cross and The Purple Heart. RD will be missed by his wife of 40 years, Linda, daughter, Peggy and grandsons.

Published in Dallas Morning News on July 21, 2013
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2018, 04:36:50 PM
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There is no record of Whaley's professed award of the Navy Cross. Whaley was born in June, 1908 as recently as in the information displayed on
his son William W Whaley, Jr's 1931 birth certificate, but since then he was born in 1905 although his parents married in 1907 according to Hopkins
County, TX records and the same familoy bible that describes Whaley's birth as in 1908.

His son and namesake William's 1997 obit lists William Jr's aunt Alice Patterson as his mother and mentions no father.
Whaley Sr's obit does not mention his namesake son, William, Jr.

Mary Bledsoe and RD Matthews have the same first cousin, Jewell Ralston Germany, Jr. because Matthews's mother's sister Adelaide married Mary Bledsoe's
uncle, Jewell Ralston Germany, Sr.  in 1919.:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,305.msg8410.html#msg8410
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census.jpg)

There is no record of Whaley's professed award of the Navy Cross.

If the illiterate bull slingin cabbie had received the Navy Cross there definitely would be a record....

The fact that there is no record is a good illustration that Whaley was a a blatant bull slinger, that those naive and gullible souls who believe his wild tale about transporting Lee Oswald to a point nearly a half mile beyond the rooming house might use as a wake up to reality call.   Bill Whaley was a bull slinger that meant no harm.....He simply allowed his mouth to run wild and say things that his brain couldn't validate....

The Lawyers and "investigators on LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committe knew damned well that Whaley was a liar...  But rather than challenge him and expose his lies...they bolstered his tale to divert any inquiries into How did Lee Oswald travel to the Rooming house and the Theater?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2018, 05:21:10 PM
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Who said I accept the WC version?  That doesn't automatically mean that your fabricated tales win.  Do you have some evidence that Oswald paid anyone 85 cents for a taxi ride?  Who was this cab driver (and don't say Darrel Click)?  Where is his log sheet?

Here's a question for you Johnny.....

It's part of the official tale that Whaley's "wino" passenger who was wearing blue workman's clothing told Whaley  when he got into Whaley's taxi, to take him to 500 N. Beckley.

If the man had been Lee Oswald who "wanted to pass by the rooming house"   ...HOW would he have known that Whaley would take a route that would pass by the rooming house??     
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 07, 2018, 06:05:05 PM
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Here's a question for you Johnny.....

It's part of the official tale that Whaley's "wino" passenger who was wearing blue workman's clothing told Whaley  when he got into Whaley's taxi, to take him to 500 N. Beckley.

If the man had been Lee Oswald who "wanted to pass by the rooming house"   ...HOW would he have known that Whaley would take a route that would pass by the rooming house??     

I agree.  Perhaps you never noticed that I argued against the "wanted to pass by the rooming house to see if the cops were there" assumption on many occasions.  It doesn't make sense on multiple levels.

And please stop calling me "Johnny", Mervin.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2018, 07:21:32 PM
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I agree.  Perhaps you never noticed that I argued against the "wanted to pass by the rooming house to see if the cops were there" assumption on many occasions.  It doesn't make sense on multiple levels.

And please stop calling me "Johnny", Mervin.

Shirley you would rather be called Johnny......  Right?

I argued against the "wanted to pass by the rooming house to see if the cops were there" assumption on many occasions.  It doesn't make sense on multiple levels.

Yes and if it is obvious as you and I can see that it is..... Then the liars on LBJ's Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee also knew that Whaley's tale was utter bull stuff.....

And it was they who invented the ridiculous idea that Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald was in Whaley's taxi and wanted to ride by the rooming house to see if the police were there waiting for him.....

Those lawyers and FBI men weren't stupid ......  They had to have known how fantastic their fabrication was, but in their arrogance and conceit they simply assumed us piss ants ( as LBJ called us) were too stupid to question their fabrications.



Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 11, 2018, 11:08:32 AM
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If the man had been Lee Oswald who "wanted to pass by the rooming house"   ...HOW would he have known that Whaley would take a route that would pass by the rooming house??     

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I agree.  Perhaps you never noticed that I argued against the "wanted to pass by the rooming house to see if the cops were there" assumption on many occasions.  It doesn't make sense on multiple levels.

The desperation never ends with you guys.

The most direct route from the Greyhound Station to 500 North Beckley was to cross the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley.  This route passes the rooming house BEFORE reaching the 500 block of North Beckley.

Would either one of you two care to post an alternate route which is even remotely close to the same (in terms of time or distance) as the one I mention above?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 11, 2018, 08:13:24 PM
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The desperation never ends with you guys.

The most direct route from the Greyhound Station to 500 North Beckley was to cross the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley.  This route passes the rooming house BEFORE reaching the 500 block of North Beckley.

Would either one of you two care to post an alternate route which is even remotely close to the same (in terms of time or distance) as the one I mention above?

That's irrelevant...   The point is...  How would the passenger know what route the Taxi would travel?

Whaley could have exited the Houston street viaduct at Marsallis and then turned west on 7th . 8th. 9th,......

But the FACT remains  Whaley's "wino" passenger who was dressed in blue workman's clothes could not know what route Whaley would travel.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 11, 2018, 08:35:32 PM
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That's irrelevant...   The point is...  How would the passenger know what route the Taxi would travel?

Whaley could have exited the Houston street viaduct at Marsallis and then turned west on 7th . 8th. 9th,......

But the FACT remains  Whaley's "wino" passenger who was dressed in blue workman's clothes could not know what route Whaley would travel.

Given the fact that Whaley stated he heard sirens and that the housekeeper at Oswald's residence reported him coming home, changing, and then leaving doesn't look good for Oswald. Whaley was obviously wrong about the time. The fact is Oswald was at the North Beckley resident at around 1:00 pm according to Earlene Roberts.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 11, 2018, 10:25:23 PM
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Given the fact that Whaley stated he heard sirens and that the housekeeper at Oswald's residence reported him coming home, changing, and then leaving doesn't look good for Oswald. Whaley was obviously wrong about the time. The fact is Oswald was at the North Beckley resident at around 1:00 pm according to Earlene Roberts.

The fact is Oswald was at the North Beckley resident at around 1:00 pm according to Earlene Roberts.

Based on Whaley's description of his passenger .....That passenger was NOT Lee Oswald.   But Lee did apparently acknowledge that he had hired  a Taxi and paid that driver 85 cents for the ride.....   Whaley said he charged his "wino" passenger 95 cents.


Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 11, 2018, 10:46:00 PM
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That's irrelevant...   The point is...  How would the passenger know what route the Taxi would travel?

Whaley could have exited the Houston street viaduct at Marsallis and then turned west on 7th . 8th. 9th,......

But the FACT remains  Whaley's "wino" passenger who was dressed in blue workman's clothes could not know what route Whaley would travel.


Quote
That's irrelevant...   The point is...  How would the passenger know what route the Taxi would travel?

No, it's not irrelevant at all.

Oswald was obviously very familiar with the area in question, as was Whaley.


Quote
Whaley could have exited the Houston street viaduct at Marsallis and then turned west on 7th . 8th. 9th,......

Use all of the side streets versus simply staying on Zang.  Riiiight.

A cab located on the Houston Street viaduct at Marsallis would reach 500 North Beckley twice as fast if it took the viaduct to Zang to Beckley than it would if it exited the viaduct at Marsallis and took any of those side streets west.

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley on it's way to the 500 block.

Common sense told Whaley to take the viaduct to Zang to Beckley on his way to the 500 block.

I don't expect you to understand.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 12, 2018, 02:18:34 PM
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No, it's not irrelevant at all.

Oswald was obviously very familiar with the area in question, as was Whaley.


Use all of the side streets versus simply staying on Zang.  Riiiight.

A cab located on the Houston Street viaduct at Marsallis would reach 500 North Beckley twice as fast if it took the viaduct to Zang to Beckley than it would if it exited the viaduct at Marsallis and took any of those side streets west.

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley on it's way to the 500 block.

Common sense told Whaley to take the viaduct to Zang to Beckley on his way to the 500 block.

I don't expect you to understand.

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley on it's way to the 500 block.

Billy Bob..... You've stated that you believe that Lee Oswald was desperately fleeing the scene and if that were true He most certainly would have had other thoughts going through his mind then wondering about what route he cab woul take to Oakcliff.   

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley

Are you referring to the "wino" in the blue workman's clothing ?

Commonsense would dictate that Lee Oswald who was not a "wino" and was dressed in a brown shirt and gray trousers, that he didn't need to worry about he police waiting a the rooming house, because he knew that nobody knew where he was living.         
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 02:23:41 PM
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Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley on it's way to the 500 block.

Billy Bob..... You've stated that you believe that Lee Oswald was desperately fleeing the scene and if that were true He most certainly would have had other thoughts going through his mind then wondering about what route he cab woul take to Oakcliff.   

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley

Are you referring to the "wino" in the blue workman's clothing ?

Commonsense would dictate that Lee Oswald who was not a "wino" and was dressed in a brown shirt and gray trousers, that he didn't need to worry about he police waiting a the rooming house, because he knew that nobody knew where he was living.       


Quote
You've stated that you believe that Lee Oswald was desperately fleeing the scene...

I don't recall ever saying that.


Quote
...and if that were true He most certainly would have had other thoughts going through his mind then wondering about what route he cab woul take to Oakcliff.

I don't believe Oswald was "wondering about what route" the cabbie would take.  The proper route is pretty much a given and therefore, no "wondering" necessary.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 12, 2018, 03:50:07 PM
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I don't recall ever saying that.


I don't believe Oswald was "wondering about what route" the cabbie would take.  The proper route is pretty much a given and therefore, no "wondering" necessary.

Psssst Billy Bob.....  Lee told the interrogators that the taxi ride to the Rooming house was the first time that he'd used a taxi to travel in Dallas.   So how the hell would he know ( or care) what route the driver took?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 12, 2018, 04:11:15 PM
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The fact is Oswald was at the North Beckley resident at around 1:00 pm according to Earlene Roberts.

Based on Whaley's description of his passenger .....That passenger was NOT Lee Oswald.   But Lee did apparently acknowledge that he had hired  a Taxi and paid that driver 85 cents for the ride.....   Whaley said he charged his "wino" passenger 95 cents.

Walt, that is a pretty thin argument. If I was a prosecuting attorney I would take that evidence: Oswald said he took a taxi home, Whaley id'ed Oswald as the man he gave a ride to, Earlene Roberts said Oswald came home around 1:00 pm. That places Oswald in the area Tippit was murdered. And when you throw in the evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder, it doesn't look good. Would you like to be in the defendant's chair?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 12, 2018, 08:56:05 PM
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Walt, that is a pretty thin argument. If I was a prosecuting attorney I would take that evidence: Oswald said he took a taxi home, Whaley id'ed Oswald as the man he gave a ride to, Earlene Roberts said Oswald came home around 1:00 pm. That places Oswald in the area Tippit was murdered. And when you throw in the evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder, it doesn't look good. Would you like to be in the defendant's chair?

Oswald said he took a taxi home, ....That's true....But Lee said he paid 85 cents for the taxi ride, whereas Whaley said his wino passenger paid 95 cents.
Whaley id'ed Oswald as the man he gave a ride to,  That means nothing  Of course Whaley said that Lee was his passenger ( that was the BS he fed his fellow cabbies) But he couldn't describe the clothes that Lee was wearing....Whaley said his passenger looked like a wino and he was wearing a blue workman's uniform and the jacket and trousers made up the uniform.

Earlene Roberts said Oswald came home around 1:00 pm. So what???....That doesn't mean that he rode in Whaley's taxi.

That places Oswald in the area Tippit was murdered.  No it does NOT   Lee was a mile away at the rooming house.

 And when you throw in the evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder, it doesn't look good.    But the evidence is very very weak.....Dom Benavides watched the killer empty the spent shells from the revolver.....The killer was NOT using a Smith and Wesson....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 12, 2018, 09:13:04 PM
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Oswald said he took a taxi home, ....That's true....But Lee said he paid 85 cents for the taxi ride, whereas Whaley said his wino passenger paid 95 cents.
Whaley id'ed Oswald as the man he gave a ride to,  That means nothing  Of course Whaley said that Lee was his passenger ( that was the BS he fed his fellow cabbies) But he couldn't describe the clothes that Lee was wearing....Whaley said his passenger looked like a wino and he was wearing a blue workman's uniform and the jacket and trousers made up the uniform.

Earlene Roberts said Oswald came home around 1:00 pm. So what???....That doesn't mean that he rode in Whaley's taxi.

That places Oswald in the area Tippit was murdered.  No it does NOT   Lee was a mile away at the rooming house.[/b

 And when you throw in the evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder, it doesn't look good.    But the evidence is very very weak.....Dom Benavides watched the killer empty the spent shells from the revolver.....The killer was NOT using a Smith and Wesson....

Walt come on. You are not going to give me the old "the killer used a semi-auto pistol" are you? Not all revolvers are Smith & Wesson's Walt. When you add in that Barbara and Virginia Davis both saw the killer walk across the property they were living at emptying the shells too, which supports Dom's statement, and that the Davis women both id'ed Oswald in a line-up then your argument just disappears. Are you trying to say that Dom and the Davis sister-in-laws were part of the conspiracy? LMAO.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 09:14:44 PM
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Psssst Billy Bob.....  Lee told the interrogators that the taxi ride to the Rooming house was the first time that he'd used a taxi to travel in Dallas.   So how the hell would he know ( or care) what route the driver took?

So one must take a taxi in order to learn the streets.  Got it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 09:21:49 PM
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Walt come on. You are not going to give me the old "the killer used a semi-auto pistol" are you? Not all revolvers are Smith & Wesson's Walt.

Walt's point is that Oswald's revolver was indeed a .38 Smith & Wesson.  Walt is mistakenly claiming that the killer was not using the same kind of revolver taken from Oswald at the theater.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 12, 2018, 09:28:34 PM
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Walt's point is that Oswald's revolver was indeed a .38 Smith & Wesson.  Walt is mistakenly claiming that the killer was not using the same kind of revolver taken from Oswald at the theater.

 Even then his argument isn't valid. How could Dom know at a glance what type of revolver? Was Dom an expert on revolvers? Did Dom say it was a different type of revolver? Dom had just witnessed a policeman being murdered in front of him. I doubt he was really that concerned if it was a Smith&Wesson.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 09:35:43 PM
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Even then his argument isn't valid. How could Dom know at a glance what type of revolver? Was Dom an expert on revolvers? Did Dom say it was a different type of revolver? Dom had just witnessed a policeman being murdered in front of him. I doubt he was really that concerned if it was a Smith&Wesson.

You're correct... and no, Benavides did not attempt to state the make and model used by the killer.

However, Walt believes that the weapon was not a .38 Special Smith & Wesson (like Oswald's was) based on the eyewitness testimony describing the manner in which the killer ejected the shells.

Walt is wrong, of course, but that is the argument he has made in the recent past.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 12, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
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You're correct... and no, Benavides did not attempt to state the make and model used by the killer.

However, Walt believes that the weapon was not a .38 Special Smith & Wesson (like Oswald's was) based on the eyewitness testimony describing the manner in which the killer ejected the shells.

Walt is wrong, of course, but that is the argument he has made in the recent past.

Thanks Bill.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 09:48:22 PM
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Thanks Bill.

No problem.

Whew, that was surreal... I felt like Cakebread there for a second.  Please don't do that to me again.  Ha ha
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 12, 2018, 09:52:58 PM
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No problem.

Whew, that was surreal... I felt like Cakebread there for a second.  Please don't do that to me again.  Ha ha

I promise not to do it again.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 12, 2018, 10:01:26 PM
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So one must take a taxi in order to learn the streets.  Got it.

Got what?....   Dementia?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 12, 2018, 10:07:24 PM
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You're correct... and no, Benavides did not attempt to state the make and model used by the killer.

However, Walt believes that the weapon was not a .38 Special Smith & Wesson (like Oswald's was) based on the eyewitness testimony describing the manner in which the killer ejected the shells.



Walt believes that the weapon was not a .38 Special Smith & Wesson (like Oswald's was) based on the eyewitness testimony describing the manner in which the killer ejected the shells.

That's correct...Several witnesses saw the killer removing spent shells from the revolver at various places in the vicinity of the murder..... Those witnessrs DESCRIBED    DESCRIBED a man removing spent shells from the revolver ONE SHELL AT A TIME.....  The S&W extracts all the shells at the same time......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 12, 2018, 10:29:41 PM
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Walt believes that the weapon was not a .38 Special Smith & Wesson (like Oswald's was) based on the eyewitness testimony describing the manner in which the killer ejected the shells.

That's correct...Several witnesses saw the killer removing spent shells from the revolver at various places in the vicinity of the murder..... Those witnessrs DESCRIBED    DESCRIBED a man removing spent shells from the revolver ONE SHELL AT A TIME.....  The S&W extracts all the shells at the same time......

The shells expanded after firing and had to be removed manually, one at a time.  I explained all of this to you and Prudhomme before the forum crashed.  You simply ignored it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 13, 2018, 12:14:26 AM
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The shells expanded after firing and had to be removed manually, one at a time.  I explained all of this to you and Prudhomme before the forum crashed.  You simply ignored it.

No, you didn't "explain it" you tried to blow smoke  and only an ignoramus who knows nothing about the S&W would be taken in by your BS.

You know damned well that FBI agent Cortland Cunningham demonstrated the removal of the spent shells from "Oswald's" Smith and Wesson......And he extracted them all in one swell poop.... You're simply a moron who would do well to keep his mouth shut about that which he knows nothing.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 13, 2018, 03:18:27 AM
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No, you didn't "explain it" you tried to blow smoke  and only an ignoramus who knows nothing about the S&W would be taken in by your BS.

You know damned well that FBI agent Cortland Cunningham demonstrated the removal of the spent shells from "Oswald's" Smith and Wesson......And he extracted them all in one swell poop.... You're simply a moron who would do well to keep his mouth shut about that which he knows nothing.

Your memory is pathetic. Re-read Cunningham's testimony. Try to focus on what you read.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 13, 2018, 04:28:34 AM
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Your memory is pathetic. Re-read Cunningham's testimony. Try to focus on what you read.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 13, 2018, 05:18:52 AM
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Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley on it's way to the 500 block.

Billy Bob..... You've stated that you believe that Lee Oswald was desperately fleeing the scene and if that were true He most certainly would have had other thoughts going through his mind then wondering about what route he cab woul take to Oakcliff.   

Common sense told Oswald that the cabbie would take the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley

Are you referring to the "wino" in the blue workman's clothing ?

Commonsense would dictate that Lee Oswald who was not a "wino" and was dressed in a brown shirt and gray trousers, that he didn't need to worry about he police waiting a the rooming house, because he knew that nobody knew where he was living.       

'he didn't need to worry about he police waiting a the rooming house, because he knew that nobody knew where he was living'

Why take the chance?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 13, 2018, 05:41:24 AM
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Exactly.

Smith & Wesson and..wait for it.. Lee.


How about 'Dirty Harvey'
A perfect fit

 ;)


Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on March 13, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
Okay, if the premise is, that Oswald was directing William Whaley which way to go, and Oswald knew the streets, and Oswald does not want be seen getting out near his boarding house, then why get out on the MAIN STREET going past his boarding house?

Wouldn some other less conspicuous less traffic side street several blocks away be better thatn getting out in view of potential lot more cars traveling the main street route?

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 13, 2018, 01:56:27 PM
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Your memory is pathetic. Re-read Cunningham's testimony. Try to focus on what you read.


Timmy,  perhaps you should "focus on what you read.!"...."Your memory is pathetic." and your buddy Billy Bob is an idiot...

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 13, 2018, 02:00:37 PM
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Okay, if the premise is, that Oswald was directing William Whaley which way to go, and Oswald knew the streets, and Oswald does not want be seen getting out near his boarding house, then why get out on the MAIN STREET going past his boarding house?

Wouldn some other less conspicuous less traffic side street several blocks away be better thatn getting out in view of potential lot more cars traveling the main street route?

Oswald was directing William Whaley which way to go,

The "wino" in the blue workman's clothing .....was NOT talking to Whaley.....  Whaley said the "wino" didn't seem to be interested in conversation.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 13, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
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No, you didn't "explain it" you tried to blow smoke  and only an ignoramus who knows nothing about the S&W would be taken in by your BS.

You know damned well that FBI agent Cortland Cunningham demonstrated the removal of the spent shells from "Oswald's" Smith and Wesson......And he extracted them all in one swell poop.... You're simply a moron who would do well to keep his mouth shut about that which he knows nothing.

'one swell poop' lol
No need to tell us about the state of your bowel movements

Try 'one fell swoop' next time

Dirty Harvey's revolver was a six shot weapon
Not sure any eyewitness saw him eject shells all at once.
No one said they heard six shots, did they?


Table of Contents, Appendix IX, Appendix XI
Appendix X - Expert Testimony
Firearms And Firearms Identification
Cite: MacAdams

To extract empty cartridge cases, the cylinder is swung out and an ejector rod attached to the cylinder is pushed, simultaneously ejecting all the cartridge cases (and cartridges) in the cylinder. If both live cartridges and expended cartridge cases are in the cylinder, before pushing the ejection rod one can tip the cylinder and dump the live cartridges into his hand. The cartridge cases will not fall out, because they are lighter than the cartridges, and when fired they will have expanded so as to tightly fit the chamber walls.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 13, 2018, 05:54:48 PM
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Oswald was directing William Whaley which way to go,

The "wino" in the blue workman's clothing .....was NOT talking to Whaley.....  Whaley said the "wino" didn't seem to be interested in conversation.....

Tell us how a request to stop qualifies as a conversation, exactly...
Since when did Dirty Harvey ever want to engage with strangers (let alone fellow employees)

That home schoolin' just hasn't worked out for ya, has it Waldo...
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 13, 2018, 06:48:57 PM
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Tell us how a request to stop qualifies as a conversation, exactly...
Since when did Dirty Harvey ever want to engage with strangers (let alone fellow employees)

That home schoolin' just hasn't worked out for ya, has it Waldo...

Learn the FACTS ....Moron....  FBI agent Cortland cunning ham DEMONSTRATED the removal of the spent cases from the revolver they said was Lee Oswald's gun.   Cunningham ejected all five of them with one push of the extractor rod.
Is this too difficult for you to understand?


Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 13, 2018, 06:50:12 PM
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'one swell poop' lol
No need to tell us about the state of your bowel movements

Try 'one fell swoop' next time


Dirty Harvey's revolver was a six shot weapon
Not sure any eyewitness saw him eject shells all at once.
No one said they heard six shots, did they?


Table of Contents, Appendix IX, Appendix XI
Appendix X - Expert Testimony
Firearms And Firearms Identification
Cite: MacAdams

To extract empty cartridge cases, the cylinder is swung out and an ejector rod attached to the cylinder is pushed, simultaneously ejecting all the cartridge cases (and cartridges) in the cylinder. If both live cartridges and expended cartridge cases are in the cylinder, before pushing the ejection rod one can tip the cylinder and dump the live cartridges into his hand. The cartridge cases will not fall out, because they are lighter than the cartridges, and when fired they will have expanded so as to tightly fit the chamber walls.

Try 'one fell swoop' next time

The faux pas was deliberate.....Idiot!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 14, 2018, 01:42:46 AM
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Learn the FACTS ....Moron....  FBI agent Cortland cunning ham DEMONSTRATED the removal of the spent cases from the revolver they said was Lee Oswald's gun.   Cunningham ejected all five of them with one push of the extractor rod.
Is this too difficult for you to understand?


Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.

Did you understand what Cunningham said, Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 14, 2018, 02:52:19 AM
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Timmy,  perhaps you should "focus on what you read.!"...."Your memory is pathetic." and your buddy Billy Bob is an idiot...

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.

Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 14, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
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Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.



So what Timmy??.......There's not enough information here to know If Cunningham loaded a single bullet into the cylinder and fired just that single cartridge..... and I doubt that he did that.    But that wouldn't change anything, because Tippit's killer did not load one round and fire his revolver in that weird manner....

The fact remains that Tippit's killer fired at least four shots rapidly.....  He then walked away from the scene extracting one spent shell at a time and tossing them over a wide area.   The spent shells were found not in a group as Cunningham described but scattered around the area.  They were not found in a group s they would have been if Tippit's killer had been using the Smith and Wesson that Cortland Cunningham used for the demonstration. The killer was not using a Smith and Wesson revolver like  the one they said was Lee Oswald's.

The conclusion is.....Lee Oswald did not shoot JD Tippit.....

Is this too difficult for you Timmy?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 14, 2018, 09:27:48 PM
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Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.


Are you aware that it would be very very difficult to remove spent shells from the S&W that had been expanded ( bulged)
without using the extractor rod ( which removes all of the cartridges at once with a single stroke) 

Anybody attempting to remove the shells one at a time would have to have some sort of a tool to pry them out of the cylinder.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 15, 2018, 12:26:06 PM
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So what Timmy??.......There's not enough information here to know If Cunningham loaded a single bullet into the cylinder and fired just that single cartridge..... and I doubt that he did that.    But that wouldn't change anything, because Tippit's killer did not load one round and fire his revolver in that weird manner....

The fact remains that Tippit's killer fired at least four shots rapidly.....  He then walked away from the scene extracting one spent shell at a time and tossing them over a wide area.   The spent shells were found not in a group as Cunningham described but scattered around the area.  They were not found in a group s they would have been if Tippit's killer had been using the Smith and Wesson that Cortland Cunningham used for the demonstration. The killer was not using a Smith and Wesson revolver like  the one they said was Lee Oswald's.

The conclusion is.....Lee Oswald did not shoot JD Tippit.....

Is this too difficult for you Timmy?


You never answered, Timmy.....   Do you now understand why Lee Oswald could not have been the killer who Domingo Benavides saw shoot JD Tippit...  The revolver that made it's debut at the Texas Theater was a Smith & Wesson, and the man who shot J.D. Tippit was NOT using a Smith & Wesson.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 15, 2018, 04:53:30 PM
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Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.



It is a fact that President John Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM 11/22/63......

Since the official tale has Lee Oswald as the arch villain and Lone Nut who murdered JFK.....then he could not have been the passenger in Whaley's cab ......unless Lee Oswald had the ability to be at two different places at the same time.

I've always found Whaley's description of the man he transported to Oakcliff interesting.  Here he clearly thought the man had just got off a Greyhound bus and was a "Wino".......  There isn't a single photo of Lee Oswald in which he looks like Whaley's description.

When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.

Mr. BALL. He didn't run?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?

Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.


Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 15, 2018, 09:44:39 PM
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Tell us how a request to stop qualifies as a conversation, exactly...
Since when did Dirty Harvey ever want to engage with strangers (let alone fellow employees)

That home schoolin' just hasn't worked out for ya, has it Waldo...
 

Hello Chappy Coward.....  Hello....Where are you Chappy??.....   Did you let your alligator mouth overload yer tadpole arse again ?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 15, 2018, 11:17:40 PM
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The desperation never ends with you guys.

I think the desperation is the claim that Whaley's passenger told him to go to the 500 block of North Beckley so that he could check if cops were there.

Quote
The most direct route from the Greyhound Station to 500 North Beckley was to cross the Houston Street viaduct to Zang to Beckley.  This route passes the rooming house BEFORE reaching the 500 block of North Beckley.

Since when do cab drivers always take the most direct route?  Besides, Whaley said that he didn't take the most direct route leaving the station because he was timing the lights.

Mr. WHALEY. I turned to the left off Lamar onto Jackson, went one block to Austin, then from Austin I turned to the left again and went one block over to Wood Street.
Now, the reason for that is if you catch this light right at Lamar and Jackson, this other light turns green as you make your turn here and the other one turns green as you make your turn at Wood. You just move through traffic. That was my reason for making the turn.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 15, 2018, 11:19:10 PM
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When you add in that Barbara and Virginia Davis both saw the killer walk across the property they were living at emptying the shells too,

The Davises didn't see anybody kill anybody.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 15, 2018, 11:22:54 PM
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'he didn't need to worry about he police waiting a the rooming house, because he knew that nobody knew where he was living'

Why take the chance?

What if police came in unmarked cars and were inside waiting for him?  What if police were on their way to the rooming house when Oswald decided to sprint back up Beckley to the rooming house?

Why don't you guys see how colossally stupid this argument is?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 15, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
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I think the desperation is the claim that Whaley's passenger told him to go to the 500 block of North Beckley so that he could check if cops were there.

Since when do cab drivers always take the most direct route?  Besides, Whaley said that he didn't take the most direct route leaving the station because he was timing the lights.

Mr. WHALEY. I turned to the left off Lamar onto Jackson, went one block to Austin, then from Austin I turned to the left again and went one block over to Wood Street.
Now, the reason for that is if you catch this light right at Lamar and Jackson, this other light turns green as you make your turn here and the other one turns green as you make your turn at Wood. You just move through traffic. That was my reason for making the turn.


Quote
I think the desperation is the claim that Whaley's passenger told him to go to the 500 block of North Beckley so that he could check if cops were there.

Explain how that is desperate.


Quote
Since when do cab drivers always take the most direct route?  Besides, Whaley said that he didn't take the most direct route leaving the station because he was timing the lights.

Mr. WHALEY. I turned to the left off Lamar onto Jackson, went one block to Austin, then from Austin I turned to the left again and went one block over to Wood Street.
Now, the reason for that is if you catch this light right at Lamar and Jackson, this other light turns green as you make your turn here and the other one turns green as you make your turn at Wood. You just move through traffic. That was my reason for making the turn.

You post something Whaley said about the route he took while still in Dallas and is absolutely unrelated to the obvious route Whaley would take once he was crossing the Houston Street viaduct into Oak Cliff.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 16, 2018, 12:06:43 AM
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What if police came in unmarked cars and were inside waiting for him?  What if police were on their way to the rooming house when Oswald decided to sprint back up Beckley to the rooming house?

Why don't you guys see how colossally stupid this argument is?

Why don't you guys see how colossally stupid this argument is?

Thank you, john.....   The theory is so stupid that even an elementary school kid could understand the absurdity....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 16, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
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Explain how that is desperate.

Because you don't have any real evidence so you have to make up this "consciousness of guilt" garbage.  It's desperate.

Quote
You post something Whaley said about the route he took while still in Dallas and is absolutely unrelated to the obvious route Whaley would take once he was crossing the Houston Street viaduct into Oak Cliff.

The point was that Whaley didn't always take the most direct route to get where he was going.  Why would you assume that he would?  Why would Oswald (if Oswald was even his passenger)?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 16, 2018, 06:06:53 PM
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Because you don't have any real evidence so you have to make up this "consciousness of guilt" garbage.  It's desperate.

The point was that Whaley didn't always take the most direct route to get where he was going.  Why would you assume that he would?  Why would Oswald (if Oswald was even his passenger)?

Unscrupulous  cabbies have been known to give a sucker a tour....    If the passenger isn't familiar with the area a cabbie will sometimes take the long way to the destination.....Particularly if the passenger is in a hurry to keep an appointment or is running late to catch a plane.....   

Some unscrupulous drivers will promise to get the sucker to his destination if the passenger will pay an added charge. The driver will then take the long way and drive fast to earn the added bonus.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 16, 2018, 08:24:57 PM
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Because you don't have any real evidence so you have to make up this "consciousness of guilt" garbage.  It's desperate.

No.

The desperation is calling another's simple opinion "desperate".
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 16, 2018, 08:37:30 PM
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No.

The desperation is calling another's simple opinion "desperate".

You mean like this?

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The desperation never ends with you guys.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 16, 2018, 08:47:10 PM
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You mean like this?

No.

There's a difference between being of the opinion that Oswald gave the 500 N. Beckley destination because he wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could determine if anyone was there waiting for him... and ridiculing that opinion by saying that Oswald couldn't be sure what route Whaley would take, since once on the viaduct, the route to Beckley is VERY obvious.

That is why you're overly desperate.  You don't have to accept it, but you are indeed.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on March 16, 2018, 09:31:01 PM
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The Davises didn't see anybody kill anybody.





How to get away with Murder.
by John Iacoletti.

1. Kill a man on the street in broad daylight in front of Eyewitnesses.
2. Insinuate that the regular Employed Female Eyewitness who saw me Murder had taken "Crazy Sauce".
3. The Witnesses who saw me moving away from the crime scene while emptying my weapon and didn't see the murder needs to pointed out again and again.
4. The innocent People who saw me acting all suspicious and rang the Police just happened to be a part some imagined conspiracy.
5. My trying to kill the arresting Officers was just my weapon innocently going off.
6. My admission of actually carrying the Tippit Murder weapon as recollected by seemingly unconnected interrogators will be explained, ....eventually!

And yes Iacoletti is serious!



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 20, 2018, 08:08:14 PM
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No.

There's a difference between being of the opinion that Oswald gave the 500 N. Beckley destination because he wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could determine if anyone was there waiting for him... and ridiculing that opinion by saying that Oswald couldn't be sure what route Whaley would take, since once on the viaduct, the route to Beckley is VERY obvious.

That is why you're overly desperate.  You don't have to accept it, but you are indeed.

The only difference is that you think your own personal assumptions are "obvious".
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 20, 2018, 08:16:17 PM
How to convict someone of murder.
by "John Mytton".

1. Keep claiming over and over that he's a murderer and that there is a "mountain of evidence"
2. Make up a whole bunch of statements that somebody never actually said in order to make a fallacious appeal to ridicule, instead of discussing this alleged "mountain".
3. Make up a whole bunch of claims about the evidence that aren't actually true or demonstrated to be true (like "trying to kill the arresting Officers", and "admission of actually carrying the Tippit Murder weapon")
4. Go to step 1.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 20, 2018, 08:51:57 PM
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The only difference is that you think your own personal assumptions are "obvious".

Although I don't know how "obvious" any given route would be to the rooming house.....But I do know that simply because a driver was on the viaduct the route to 500 N. Beckley would  be obvious.   Whaley could have taken the Marsalis exit and traveled any route he chose.

There was nothing that compelled him to take any given route.   It seems to be true that Whaley did travel the route he testified to.....But any passenger getting in his cab would not know what route the driver would take.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 21, 2018, 02:14:17 PM
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Although I don't know how "obvious" any given route would be to the rooming house.....But I do know that simply because a driver was on the viaduct the route to 500 N. Beckley would  be obvious.   Whaley could have taken the Marsalis exit and traveled any route he chose.

There was nothing that compelled him to take any given route.   It seems to be true that Whaley did travel the route he testified to.....But any passenger getting in his cab would not know what route the driver would take.

any passenger getting in his cab would not know what route the driver would take.

This is the crux of the debate.....   And it should be obvious that any passenger getting into Whaley's taxi at the bus depot and telling the driver to take him to 500 N. Beckley would have no assurance about any route Whaley might take.

The passenger couldn't possibly know what route the driver would take

So the whole story is based on an assumption that the passenger would know that the taxi would pass by the rooming house.   You're bright enough to understand this aren't you Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 22, 2018, 02:22:11 PM
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any passenger getting in his cab would not know what route the driver would take.

This is the crux of the debate.....   And it should be obvious that any passenger getting into Whaley's taxi at the bus depot and telling the driver to take him to 500 N. Beckley would have no assurance about any route Whaley might take.

The passenger couldn't possibly know what route the driver would take

So the whole story is based on an assumption that the passenger would know that the taxi would pass by the rooming house.   You're bright enough to understand this aren't you Billy Bob?

Bill, do you know if Whaley said anything about his "WINO" passenger changing his clothes in the cab?

I'm curious because, the cops never found any of the blue workman's clothing in Lee Oswald's room.....and since Whaley said that his Oswald who got in his cab at 12:30 was wearing blue workman's uniform clothing never left that clothing at the rooming house.  Maybe he changed clothes in Whaley's taxi.....   Whadda ya think?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 22, 2018, 04:12:52 PM
He couldn't tell time, figure out what block he let his passenger off at, remember the actual name of the cross street, and his observational skills were lousy.

But when he pointed out the guy in an unfair lineup . . . well, you can take that to the bank!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 22, 2018, 05:51:59 PM
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He couldn't tell time, figure out what block he let his passenger off at, remember the actual name of the cross street, and his observational skills were lousy.

But when he pointed out the guy in an unfair lineup . . . well, you can take that to the bank!

Would you be referring to the line up in which Whaley recognized that  quote "They were trying to frame him" unquote  ??
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 22, 2018, 06:04:38 PM
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Would you be referring to the line up in which Whaley recognized that  quote "They were trying to frame him" unquote  ??

The lineup where Whaley reported Oswald saying that they were trying to railroad him -- which they were.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 22, 2018, 06:16:32 PM
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The lineup where Whaley reported Oswald saying that they were trying to railroad him -- which they were.

No......Oswald didn't say they were trying to railroad him.....  That was Whaley's observation and Whaley's opinion.

"He knew they were trying to railroad him".... and he was protesting...   Whaley's testimony.

Mr. WHALEY. He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what he thought about them. They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.

They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him

The above is Whaley's opinion.....and he recognized that Lee was being railroaded.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 22, 2018, 09:09:46 PM
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No......Oswald didn't say they were trying to railroad him.....  That was Whaley's observation and Whaley's opinion.

"He knew they were trying to railroad him".... and he was protesting...   Whaley's testimony.

Mr. WHALEY. He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what he thought about them. They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.

They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him

The above is Whaley's opinion.....and he recognized that Lee was being railroaded.....

He told them what he thought about them:  they knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 22, 2018, 10:12:19 PM
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He told them what he thought about them:  they knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.

Lee told the police what he thought of them..... 

Yes, I'll bet he did....   and I wouldn't blame him. He knew that the line ups were rigged and he stuck out like a dandelion on a putting green ......

they knew what they were doing

"They knew what they were doing".....    Did the cops tell Whaley "what they were doing"  ( rigging the line up)  or was that Whaley's observation?

they were trying to railroad him    Did Lee tell the cops and the viewers of the line up that they were railroading him? ...or was that Whaley's observation?     Personally, I doubt that Lee would have told the cops that they were railroading him....I believe that was Whaley's observation ( And a blind man could have seen that the lineup was rigged.)

He wanted his lawyer     Since Lee had also said this at the midnight parade in which Ruby couldn't get close enough to kill Lee Oswald ...I have no doubt that Whaley did hear Lee protesting his rights to legal representation.

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 01:47:50 AM
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Personally, I doubt that Lee would have told the cops that they were railroading him.

Why?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Mark Valenti on March 23, 2018, 02:22:37 AM
Oswald was indeed worried about being railroaded when he bitterly complained that he was wearing a t-shirt for the lineup, when others were not. That his shirt had already been seen, that the lineup was rigged.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 23, 2018, 07:15:46 PM
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Why?

Personally, I doubt that Lee would have told the cops that they were railroading him.

Why?

Simply because It doesn't sound like Lee's words.....

He said stuff like... "I emphatically deny these charges"  and "They've arrested me because I lived in Russia"

"I want a jacket like these boys are wearing"  and "I've been denied legal representation"

The sum total of the outbursts from Lee added up to being railroaded ....and Whaley recognized that Lee was being railroaded, and he told the WC lawyer that.   
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 23, 2018, 09:55:22 PM
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Oswald was indeed worried about being railroaded when he bitterly complained that he was wearing a t-shirt for the lineup, when others were not. That his shirt had already been seen, that the lineup was rigged.

"Oswald was indeed worried about being railroaded"

I believe that's true.....But that's not the point.    My contention is that I doubt that Lee would have used words like...."These cops are railroading me"....or..." I'm being railroaded"   These sound like the words of a taxi driver.....

Lee had earlier told reporters that he'd been denied legal representation.....   He never said...."I'm being railroaded.



Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 24, 2018, 10:41:08 PM
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"Oswald was indeed worried about being railroaded"

I believe that's true.....But that's not the point.    My contention is that I doubt that Lee would have used words like...."These cops are railroading me"....or..." I'm being railroaded"   These sound like the words of a taxi driver.....

Lee had earlier told reporters that he'd been denied legal representation.....   He never said...."I'm being railroaded.

Bill....  would you mind telling me again how the man in the blue workman's clothes ( who you believe was Lee Oswald) would know that he taxi driver would take a route that passed by the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley?       
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on March 25, 2018, 06:24:04 AM
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Bill....  would you mind telling me again how the man in the blue workman's clothes ( who you believe was Lee Oswald) would know that he taxi driver would take a route that passed by the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley?     

Look at a map.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 25, 2018, 02:11:42 PM
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Look at a map.

My map shows a Marsalias street exit off the viaduct ......  How would Whaley's passenger in the blue work clothes know that Whaley wouldn't exit.?



 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 30, 2018, 01:30:37 PM
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Look at a map.

The map shows that the majority of the traffic would exit at Marsalias.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 03, 2018, 02:36:30 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of xxxx stirring.

This was reply # 27. I highlighted the only parts of it that I agreed with.
Folks say we can only speculate and then speculate further on :-\

This is from reply # 68...[got the thread back on track]
by John Iacoletti
Quote
In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.
 
Perhaps they should have brought Whaley in and had Oswald identify him   ;)
The interrogation notes states that Oswald admitted taking a cab.
He said he paid $.85 cents.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29104#relPageId=6&tab=page
[Pages 6 & 7]
The cabbie [affidavit] said that the charge was $.95 and that his fare gave him a dollar and he could just go ahead and keep it. The cab driver stated [affidavit] that his fare told him 500 N Beckley. The reason why [even if Oswald was the passenger] remains a mystery.
If it was a conspirator then he might have gone the few blocks over to shoot Tippit.
Wm Whaley was killed in a head on collision in 1965.

  Take a look at some more of Whaley's April 8 testimony....
If one hasn't read this...how could they truly say they have researched this case?
From what I understand of David Belin, he was a real prick.

Quote
Mr. BELIN. Now I notice in the statement there it says that you traveled Wood Street to Houston Street, turned left and went over the viaduct to Zangs Boulevard. You see that statement there?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. "Traveled Zangs to Beckley and turned left and traveled on Beckley until I reached the 500 block of North Beckley. When I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped."
Now is that what you told them on that day?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is what I told them on that day.
Mr. BELIN. Well, was that the fact that you drove until you reached the 500 block, or not?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500 block of North Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station* * *"
Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?

Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup.
Mr. WHALEY. Well, now, let's get this straight. You are getting me confused.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I will put it this way. There was an FBI reporter, FBI interviewer with you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; there was.
Mr. BELIN. And there was an interview with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes. And Bill Alexander from the district attorney's office was there, also.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now, the last sentence.
Mr. WHALEY. Let me tell you how they fixed this up. They had me in the office saying that. They were writing it out on paper, and they wrote it out on paper, and this officer, Leavelle, I think that is his name, before he finished and before I signed he wanted me to go with him to the lineup, so I went to the lineup, and I come back and he asked me which one it was, which number it was, and I identified the man, and we went back up in the office again, and then they had me sign this. That is as near as I can remember.
My recollection for that afternoon in that office was very disturbed because everytime they would open the door, some flash camera would flash in your face and everybody coming in and out and asking you questions.
Mr. BELIN. You mean reporters?
Mr. WHALEY. I made this statement more to Bill Alexander, because I tried to talk to him more. Everybody was trying to talk to me at once.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw the statement the first time, did you see the statement before you went down to see the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. No; I didn't see the statement. I don't think I did. I am not for sure.
I think I signed it after I came back. It was on paper. They were writing it up on paper.
Mr. BELIN. They were writing?
Mr. WHALEY. Before I left there, I signed this typewritten, because they had to get, a stenographer typed it up. I had to wait.
Mr. BELIN. But was this before or after you saw the lineup.
Mr. WHALEY. After she typed it up. It was after.
Mr. BELIN. It was after?
Mr. WHALEY. That is when I signed it, after.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--what I want to know is, before you went down, had they already put on there a statement that the man you saw was the No. 8 man in the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.
Whaley couldn't seem to remember if he did or didn't sign a statement before the line-up?  #8 man? What is Belin talking about?
***************************************************************************
 
Quote
Mr. WHALEY. When she wanted to know if she could have the cab, I don't know, but I got a faint hunch he did tell her she could have this one, or something like that. What it was, I was watching my left-hand side. I wanted to pull out when the light changed.
Mr. BELIN. Now when you saw a lineup down at the police station----
Mr. WHALEY. He didn't have on the same clothes. He had on a white T-shirt and black pants, and that is all he had on.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember now whether the man that you saw there was the No. 2 or the No. 3 man?
Mr. WHALEY. I will admit he was No. 2.
Mr. BELIN. No. 2 from your left, or from your right?
Mr. WHALEY. He was the third man out in the line of four as they walked out in a line. They put the first man out on the right, and the last one on my left, and as near as I can remember, he was No. 2, but it was the man I hauled.
Mr. BELIN. It says here the No. 3.
Mr. WHALEY. Well, I am not trying to mix nobody up. I'm giving it to you to the best of my ability.
Mr. BELIN. Your memory right now is that it was the No. 2 man?
Mr. WHALEY. That is the way it is right now. I don't think it will change again. But on that afternoon, all I saw was the man that I hauled up there, and they asked me which number he was, and I said No. 2. I am almost sure I did, but I couldn't get up to swear to it that I did, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Just one more minute, if you would, please? Mr. Whaley, earlier in your testimony here you said that Lee Harvey Oswald was No. 3. Do you remember saying that?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; but I meant that he was the third one out when they walked out with him. I said from my right.
Mr. BELIN. From your right he was No. 3?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What number was over his head?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, they--when they walked over the line and they stopped him, No. 2 was over his head, but he was pulling on both of the other men on each side and arguing with this detective, so he didn't stay under any certain number.
He was moving like that.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him later on television?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; I didn't.
Yeah right
********************************************
Quote
Mr. BELIN. You never did see his picture in the paper?
Mr. WHALEY. I saw his picture in the paper the next morning, sir.
Mr. BELIN. That would have been Sunday morning, the 24th?
Mr. WHALEY. I guess it was, if you say it was, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I don't want to---
Mr. WHALEY. I don't want to get you mixed up and get your whole investigation mixed up through my ignorance, but a good defense attorney could take me apart. I get confused. I try to tell you exactly what happened, to the best of my ability, when they brought Oswald out in the lineup of four. He was the third man out. I don't know which way they count them.
"Defense attorney"? Oswald was dead
**********************************************************
Quote
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. What day of the week did you take this cab passenger, on a Friday or Saturday?
Mr. WHALEY. I would have to see my trip sheet.
Mr. BELIN. You don't remember?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was it the day of the motorcade?
Mr. WHALEY. The day of the President's parade, yes, sir.
So rattled, he didn't know what day it was
**************************************************
Quote
Mr. BELIN. When we went out there today, when we started the stopwatch from the Greyhound bus station to the 700 block of North Beckley, do You know about how many minutes that was on the stop watch?
Mr. WHALEY. A little more than 5 minutes, between 5 and 6 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Would your trip that day, on November 22, have been longer or shorter, or about the same time as the trip we took today?
Mr. WHALEY. It would be approximately the same time, sir, give or take a few seconds, not minutes. Because the man drove just about as near to my driving as possible. We made every light that I made, and we stopped on the lights that I stopped on.
Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride.............................
Yeah, let's shave every minute ...every second we can to make things work :-\
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on June 03, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
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This was reply # 27. I highlighted the only parts of it that I agreed with.
Folks say we can only speculate and then speculate further on :-\

This is from reply # 68...[got the thread back on track]
by John Iacoletti   
Perhaps they should have brought Whaley in and had Oswald identify him   ;)
The interrogation notes states that Oswald admitted taking a cab.
He said he paid $.85 cents.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29104#relPageId=6&tab=page
[Pages 6 & 7]
The cabbie [affidavit] said that the charge was $.95 and that his fare gave him a dollar and he could just go ahead and keep it. The cab driver stated [affidavit] that his fare told him 500 N Beckley. The reason why [even if Oswald was the passenger] remains a mystery.
If it was a conspirator then he might have gone the few blocks over to shoot Tippit.
Wm Whaley was killed in a head on collision in 1965.

  Take a look at some more of Whaley's April 8 testimony....
If one hasn't read this...how could they truly say they have researched this case?
From what I understand of David Belin, he was a real prick.
Whaley couldn't seem to remember if he did or didn't sign a statement before the line-up?  #8 man? What is Belin talking about?
***************************************************************************
  Yeah right
********************************************"Defense attorney"? Oswald was dead
**********************************************************So rattled, he didn't know what day it was
**************************************************Yeah, let's shave every minute ...every second we can to make things work :-\


Jerry...I believe that you're on the right track.....Lee Oswald was not guilty and he was a naive dupe who was used by Hoover's "Extra Special" Special agents as the patsy that Lee Oswald recognized he was.

The Warren Commission was nothing but a Special Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee which was composed of shyster lawyers.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Scully on September 22, 2018, 12:05:40 AM
Hugh Aynesworth reporting on 28 November, 1963 about Whaley and his Navy Cross combat award.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleyAynesworth26Nov63.jpg)
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There is no available record, so far, of Whaley's professed award of the Navy Cross.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleyNavyCrossList.jpg)

Whaley was born in June, 1908 as recently as in the information displayed on his son William W Whaley, Jr's 1931 birth certificate, but since then he was born in 1905 although his parents married in 1907 according to Hopkins County, TX records and the same familoy bible that describes Whaley's birth as in 1908.
UPDATED: Whaley's 1942 Selective Service document indicates he may have written his birth date as June 19, 1908,
three years later than the date on his death certificate and gravestone.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleyDOB1940DraftCard.jpg)
His son and namesake William's 1997 obit lists William Jr's aunt Alice Patterson as his mother and mentions no father.
Whaley Sr's obit does not mention his namesake son, William, Jr.

UPDATE:
Quote
Quote
Albuquerque Journal from Albuquerque, New Mexico on October 30 ...
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/157414971/

Oct 30, 1984 - SEALES Mr. Alvin S. Seales, age 73 and a resident here 21 years, died Monday in a local hospital following an illness. He is survived by his wife, Alice; a son William W. Whaley and wife Dorothy; granddaughter Jamy Whaley; grandson, William W. Whaley Jr. and wife Nancy, all of Albuquerque; a brother ..

Quote
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/157070315/
June 24, 1997........
WHALEY William Wayne Whaley, 65, passed away unexpectedly on June 18, 1997 in Michigan while on vacation. Husband of 43 years to Dorothy; father and father-in-law of Jamy and Gregg Peevy and Bill Jr. and Dee Whaley, all of Albuquerque; son of Alice (Pat) Scales of Albuquerque. Mr. Whaley retired from Us Alamos National Ubs in 1993 after 17 years. A memorial service will be held Wednesday, 3:00 p.m. at French Mortuary, Umas Blvd. Chapel, 10500 Umas NE. Cremation has taken place. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to Noonday Ministry, P.O. Box 8769, Albuquerque, NM 87198 or New Mexico Boys and Girls Ranch, 6209 Hendrix NE, Albuquerque, NM 87110. French Mortuary, 10500 Umas NE. Church with Rev. Archie Parker officiating. Interment to follow at Santa Fe National Cemetery with Wilson Cox Jr., David Cox, David O'Dell Jr., Timoth O'Dell, Patrick O'Dell and Jon Palmer serving as pallbearers......

Quote
ABQJournal Online - Albuquerque Journal Obituaries
obits.abqjournal.com/obits/show/124434 (https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&ei=zfKHWsDqFOTMjwTE4LKIBA&q=ALVIN+S+SEALES+WILLIAM+WHALEY&oq=ALVIN+S+SEALES+WILLIAM+WHALEY&gs_l=psy-ab.12...14605.14926.0.20638.2.2.0.0.0.0.123.236.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.a4iRnsG_0xY)
Jan 30, 1999 - Seales -- Alice (Pat) Seales, passed away Wednesday morning, January 27, 1999, at Sunrise Mission Manor Care and Rehabilitation. She was 91 years old. She was preceded in death by her husband, Alvin S. Seales; and her son, William Whaley. She is survived by her daughter-in-law, Dorothy Whaley; ...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleySonSS1997.jpg)
.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on September 22, 2018, 02:56:14 AM
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Hugh Aynesworth reporting on 28 November, 1963 about Whaley and his Navy Cross combat award.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleyAynesworth26Nov63.jpg)
UPDATE:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WhaleySonSS1997.jpg)
.....

This newspaper story is one of the biggest distortions and exaggeration of the facts I've ever seen....It's a CROCK!

But...There is one thing that Aynesworth attributes to William Whaley that Whaley reiterated during his WC testimony.... Whaley said; "I didn't notice anything particularly unusual, ( because the guy was just another wino ) "I've hauled a lot of winos in my time"

Whaley made this same statement to the WC....  IOW..The man was NOT Lee Oswald because Lee sure as hell did not look like a wino.

Another point that refutes Ayneworth's fairy tale ....Lee departs the bus....Aynesworth writes..."The time is now approximately 12:42 to 12:45. Oswald hurries south across Elm to Lamar, then two blocks south to to the Greyhound Bus Terminal on the corner of Lamar and Commerce. " CAN I TAKE THIS CAB" he shouts to the driver.

According to Aynesworth, Lee would have arrived at the Taxi Stand at the Bus Station at about 12:50  ....Hmmmmm  William Whaley said that the man who looked like a "wino" and was dressed in BLUE work uniform got in his cab at 12:30.....And the man did NOT shout at him....Whaley said that the man simply asked if he could have the cab.....

With liars like Aynesworth reporting the news....( His imaginary news)  it's no wonder that the readers thought that Lee Oswald really was a killer.

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on September 22, 2018, 10:55:26 PM
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This newspaper story is one of the biggest distortions and exaggeration of the facts I've ever seen....It's a CROCK!

But...There is one thing that Aynesworth attributes to William Whaley that Whaley reiterated during his WC testimony.... Whaley said; "I didn't notice anything particularly unusual, ( because the guy was just another wino ) "I've hauled a lot of winos in my time"

Whaley made this same statement to the WC....  IOW..The man was NOT Lee Oswald because Lee sure as hell did not look like a wino.

Another point that refutes Ayneworth's fairy tale ....Lee departs the bus....Aynesworth writes..."The time is now approximately 12:42 to 12:45. Oswald hurries south across Elm to Lamar, then two blocks south to to the Greyhound Bus Terminal on the corner of Lamar and Commerce. " CAN I TAKE THIS CAB" he shouts to the driver.

According to Aynesworth, Lee would have arrived at the Taxi Stand at the Bus Station at about 12:50  ....Hmmmmm  William Whaley said that the man who looked like a "wino" and was dressed in BLUE work uniform got in his cab at 12:30.....And the man did NOT shout at him....Whaley said that the man simply asked if he could have the cab.....

With liars like Aynesworth reporting the news....( His imaginary news)  it's no wonder that the readers thought that Lee Oswald really was a killer.

Aynesworth declares that he had "retraced" the arch Villain's foot steps after the coup d e'tat and timed the villain's movements as he "escaped'   

Aynesworth wrote:....'More than 30 minutes had elapsed since the assassination.  Oswald was still only four blocks away."


Aynesworth retraced Lee's footsteps ....Then why doesn't his reenactment concur with the story that LBJ's Cover Up committee dumped on us??

The Committee's official tale says that Lee Oswald departed Whaley's taxi about twenty minutes after the assassination, but Aynesworth says that Lee was in Whaley's Taxi just four blocks away from the TSBD " more than 30 minutes"
 after the shooting

The Fact is....Lee Oswald was never in William Whaley's taxi...