JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:42:04 PM

Title: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:42:04 PM
When reviewing the testimony of William Whaley, the taxi cab driver who the Warren Commission accepted as the cabbie who transported Lee Oswald to Oakcliff, it is obvious that they glossed over or manipulated Whaley's statements.

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

It is a fact that President John Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM 11/22/63......

Since the official tale has Lee Oswald as the arch villain and Lone Nut who murdered JFK.....then he could not have been the passenger in Whaley's cab ......unless Lee Oswald had the ability to be at two different places at the same time.

I've always found Whaley's description of the man he transported to Oakcliff interesting.  Here he clearly thought the man had just got off a Greyhound bus and was a "Wino".......  There isn't a single photo of Lee Oswald in which he looks like Whaley's description.

When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.

Mr. BALL. He didn't run?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?

Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.




Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 01:54:05 PM
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When reviewing the testimony of William Whaley, the taxi cab driver who the Warren Commission accepted s the cabbie who transported Lee Oswald to Oakcliff, it is obvious that they glossed over or manipulated Whaley's statements.

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

It is a fact that President John Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM 11/22/63......

Since the official tale has Lee Oswald as the arch villain and Lone Nut who murdered JFK.....then he could not have been the passenger in Whaley's cab ......unless Lee Oswald had the ability to be at two different places at the same time.

I've always found Whaley's description of the man he transported to Oakcliff interesting.  Here he clearly thought the man had just got off a Greyhound bus and was a "Wino".......  There isn't a single photo of Lee Oswald in which he looks like Whaley's description.

When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.

Mr. BALL. He didn't run?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?

Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.




Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….

The primary statement that changes the entire premise that Whaley transported Lee Oswald is Whaley's statement that the man entered his cab at the Greyhound Bus station at 12:30 PM.

Mr Mytton posted this.....
(https://s17.postimg.org/54pcujepb/flight.gif)

Whaley testified that the man entered his cab at 12:30......    Not 12:48.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Anthony Clayden on February 04, 2018, 08:16:01 PM
Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:12:08 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 04, 2018, 09:12:48 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

Would cars have had a time clock in the early 60's? Taxis must have kept a precise watch on the what hour of day it was.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:22:34 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

Whaley was required o keep a log of his trips.....He said he arrived at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.....and wanted to go inside to buy a package of cigarettes but this young man approached and requested his cab.....

Whaley KNEW that he arrived at 12:30.....  Which was the time of the murder.....  The murderer could not have been entering Whaley's cab and murdering JFK at the same time.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:27:20 PM
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM

Whaley's affidavit reads......."I was sitting at Lamar and Jackson at the Greyhound bus station a 12:30"----

It was NOT 12:48......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:29:41 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.


Exactly, Whaley's times didn't need to be precise.

Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.
Mr. BALL. Anything up to 15 minutes, you say?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I wrote that trip up the same time I wrote the one up from the Continental bus station to the Greyhound, I marked this 12:15 to 12:30 and started 12:30 to 12:45. And the next one starts at 1:15 to 1:30 and it goes on all day long every 15 minutes the time keeps pretty approximate.


Whaley didn't even use a watch.

Mr. BALL. That is right. I am glad you have that copy.
Mr. WHALEY. I thought maybe you might need it. You look down there it says Greyhound, 500 North Beckley, I think it is marked 12:30 to 12:45. Now that could have been 10 minutes off in each direction because I didn't use a watch, I just guess, in other words, all my trips are marked about 15 minutes each.


And Whaley then goes on to explain that the money and the trip meter were all that was required by the city ordinance.

Mr. WHALEY. It is a trip sheet manifest. The company gets the amount of money you have run, your meter reading and all, and they have to keep it because of the city ordinance requirement that the taxis make this kind of manifest.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:32:15 PM
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Whaley's affidavit reads......."I was sitting at Lamar and Jackson at the Greyhound bus station a 12:30"----

It was NOT 12:48......






He said he was sitting there at about 12:30 waiting for a fare.



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 04, 2018, 09:42:43 PM
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DEzRlDyAlE/Tvw__tpBKLI/AAAAAAAABzM/aSzgKugTqUQ/s1200/William-Whaley-Affidavit.gif)


JohnM

Who added the word "around" to the affidavit?

When Frazier made a change to his affidavit he initialed it....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 04, 2018, 09:45:10 PM
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Who added the word "around" to the affidavit?

When Frazier made a change to his affidavit he initialed it....




Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.




JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 09:51:52 PM
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JohnM

He said he was sitting there at about 12:30 waiting for a fare.

Nope!....Whaley said the time was 12:30..... Some Mytton like creature has attempted to insert the word "about".

But even if Whaley had said "about 12:30".....  and the time was actually 12:48. he would probably have said that the time was about 12:45 not 12:30...... 

And if the man entered his cab at 12:48 they could not have traveled the route the Liars said they did and arrived at the rooming house in just 12 minutes.   Even the police cars with lights and sirens took twenty minutes to travel from downtown Dallas to Oakcliff.....                       

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 04, 2018, 10:54:33 PM
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Whaley was required o keep a log of his trips.....He said he arrived at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.....and wanted to go inside to buy a package of cigarettes but this young man approached and requested his cab.....

Whaley KNEW that he arrived at 12:30.....  Which was the time of the murder.....  The murderer could not have been entering Whaley's cab and murdering JFK at the same time.

Very true
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 04, 2018, 11:36:08 PM
Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?

Of course he was, only a fool would believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2018, 11:46:44 PM
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Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?

Of course he was, only a fool would believe otherwise.

If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:14:23 PM
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If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....

While I'm waiting for Mr Mc Breary to gather the courage to answer the question, perhaps Billy Bob will answer the question I asked of him in another thread.... 

I've moved that post into this thread .........

Billy Bob Brown wrote:...

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:36:14 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

That's silly.....  We've been "on the clock" since we became an industrialized nation.   On the farm the clock was unimportant.....   The sun regulated he work day.....  The work day was sunrise to sunset.....

I understand that you'd like us to believe that Whaley paid no attention to the clock....  But in reality he watched the clock very closely.  He knew EXACTLY how long it took to travel between points in Dallas.   

On a different note....
Bookhout wrote, "Following his departure form the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained a transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took the transfer out of his pocket….

Question:  How many transfers did Lee have?   The cops removed one from his pocket at the time of his arrest, and they removed another one from his pocket at about 4:00pm when he was booked.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
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While I'm waiting for Mr Mc Breary to gather the courage to answer the question, perhaps Billy Bob will answer the question I asked of him in another thread.... 

I've moved that post into this thread .........

Billy Bob Brown weote:...

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?

The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point.


So tell me Billy Bob.... HOW did the arch villain learn that "the authorities had learned about him at that point"

Do you believe that in addition to all of the other magical qualities that have been attributed to Lee Oswald,he had the ability to know what was transpiring ( you imagine was transpiring) back at the TSBD??
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 05, 2018, 04:36:28 PM
Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on February 05, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

And not being arrested. Sure.... :D
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 05:39:06 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

Ya....He was really rattled :-\....   Baker must have thought that Lee was the best actor he had  ever seen....  He had just blew JFK's brains out, but he was such a cool actor....that he showed not a hint of excitement or fear when Baker confronted him with his gun drawn...
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
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Being seen by Truly and Baker would have rattled his cage.

Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 05, 2018, 09:59:17 PM
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Walt,

People did not have as much access to time devices in the 60's and often were less precise than people today, who are saturated with time keeping devices (watch, mobile phones, PC's).
12:30 could mean anywhere within 15 mins of that time.

And we are supposed to take your word for this?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 05, 2018, 10:01:26 PM
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Would cars have had a time clock in the early 60's? Taxis must have kept a precise watch on the what hour of day it was.

Whaley testified to keeping a log. How could he do this if he had no way of keeping time? This is a lame defense by a LNer.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 05, 2018, 10:10:30 PM
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Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.




JohnM

This is lame. Wow. 334 posts already.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 05, 2018, 10:14:09 PM
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Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?

Of course he was, only a fool would believe otherwise.

Only a fool would think that their unsupported opinion carries more weight than the actual evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 05, 2018, 11:00:34 PM
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Only a fool would think that their unsupported opinion carries more weight than the actual evidence.

Only a fool would believe that my opinion which is actually a fact is not supported by the actual evidence and only a fool would believe that I would make a statement of fact without actual evidence. Your good at making unsupported opinions by twisting the actual evidence from reality into the fantasy realm in which you reside sir.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 05, 2018, 11:03:58 PM
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Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.

You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of shit stirring.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Paul McBrearty on February 05, 2018, 11:12:39 PM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie?

That's just one of Walt's many fabrications.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 05, 2018, 11:14:51 PM
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Only a fool would believe that my opinion which is actually a fact is not supported by the actual evidence and only a fool would believe that I would make a statement of fact without actual evidence. Your good at making unsupported opinions by twisting the actual evidence from reality into the fantasy realm in which you reside sir.

Cite your evidence then.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:30:15 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of shit stirring.

How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next.

Is this an admission that you don't know what Lee was feeling and thinking?  I'll assume that's what you intended....
So you'd guess that  Lee was guilty despite the fact that he DID NOT fit the description of the man who was dressed in the light colored khaki clothing who eye witnesses had seen behind a window on the sixth floor during the shooting...

And you'd guess despite the fact that you've said... How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? that he himself didn't know what he was going to do next.....  And he had said that he was going to the movies, and that's exactly what he did....  That' a pretty good indication that he knew what he was going to do....

He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows.

Yessiree....  Truly and Baker did see him just seconds after the gruesome murder ....and he wasn't the least bit frightened or nervous....   But you think he was so worried and apprehensive that he was nearly soiling his skivvies and he didn't know what he was going to do next.  I gotta tell ya Mr Anderson....  Your "thinking" isn't the most rational I've ever encountered...

Oh, by the way Mr McBrearty you forgot to answer the question.....

If Lee was the passenger.....What happened to the BLUE  workman's uniform??

Whaley said he man was wearing blue clothing...like a workman's uniform....

Don't be shy Mr Mc Brearty ....answer the question....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 01:04:04 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of shit stirring.


You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie?

  Damned if I know...... But that is what he was reported to have said, and I can't read his mind like some of you folks .

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley?? And as soon as JFK's brains hit the pavement those authorities were off and running so they could arrive at the rooming house ahead of Lee Oswald....

Do I have that right Mr Anderson?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:40:17 AM
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Mr Anderson perhaps you can give Billy Bob Brown a hand......  Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.   Perhaps you could tell Billy Bob how you know that Lee was really rattled when officer Baker confronted him with his gun drawn.  Officer Baker couldn't detect that he had "rattled his (Lee's) cage" ...but if Lee was rattled as you have stated, then perhaps you can help Billy and apprise him of your amazing powers to know what Lee Oswald was feeling and thinking in the half hour after he left the TSBD to go to the movie.


Quote
Billy Bob believes that Lee was apprehensive and worried that the authorities were waiting for him at the rooming house.

That's not at all what I said.

I would call you a liar, but in reality, I believe you just don't understand.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:45:37 AM
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You really believe he left the TSBD to go to a movie? The mind boggles. How would I know what Oswald was feeling and thinking after he left? I'd hazard a guess he didn't expect to get out alive but he did. I'd hazard a guess he didn't know himself what he was going to do next. Knowing if the rifle was found it would be traced back to him it would seem likely he wasn't intending to just carry on with life as normal. Of course if the rifle wasn't found things would be different. We can only speculate. He damn well nearly got out the building unseen despite the odds of that being pretty low. So low a lot of folks won't believe he got down the stairs the way he did. He wasn't quite unseen though because Truly and Baker saw him. Had that not happened Truly may not even have noticed he was missing later who knows. Had that not happened Tippit might not have stopped him and been shot who knows.

Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one. There's not a lot more we can do except speculate regarding a lot of his actions. One thing is for sure though. He didn't go to the cinema because he wanted to watch a movie. You know that. You're up there with Caprio in the land of shit stirring.


Quote
Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

After dealing with the likes of Caklebread, Iacoletti and Weidmann... it is refreshing to see a forum member who accurately states another member's position.

Thanks for that, John.

I basically said Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house to see if it was clear before getting out.  I never said what Cakebread (for some reason) is attributing to me, that Oswald was actually worried that the authorities would be waiting for him there.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 06, 2018, 01:58:46 AM
How does this...

Quote
Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.


...lead you to conclude this....

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So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley??


???
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:37:57 PM
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That's not at all what I said.

I would call you a liar, but in reality, I believe you just don't understand.

I asked you if I had it right.....  And if I didn't, I asked you to explain it to me.... Is your memory that short? I'll find the post....

Ahh.....Here it is......."So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?

"Not at all."

Well perhaps you can explain it for me then.......?


Did you post that Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 12:49:58 PM
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After dealing with the likes of Caklebread, Iacoletti and Weidmann... it is refreshing to see a forum member who accurately states another member's position.

Thanks for that, John.

I basically said Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house to see if it was clear before getting out.  I never said what Cakebread (for some reason) is attributing to me, that Oswald was actually worried that the authorities would be waiting for him there.

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Mr Brown....perhaps you should change your avatar......   A sucker fish would be more fitting....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 11:52:15 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Mr Brown....perhaps you should change your avatar......   A sucker fish would be more fitting....

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 07, 2018, 12:38:39 AM
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Brown's speculation regarding driving past his rooming house to check it was clear, before stopping  is a fair one.

So you also believe that the authorities knew that Lee had a room at 1026 North Beckley?? And as soon as JFK's brains hit the pavement those authorities were off and running so they could arrive at the rooming house ahead of Lee Oswald....

Do I have that right Mr Anderson?

You have some balls commenting on my rational then coming out with manure like this. The rest of your tripe aint worth commenting on.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 07:13:27 AM
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Good one Walt...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/40125635681_5b031f892f_b.jpg)
..and then attempted to delete it

Who attempted to delete what?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
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Who attempted to delete what?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 09:30:38 PM
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that would be YOU
but a quoted copy happened to remain


What the hell are you talking about?  I haven't tried to delete a single thing.

If I "attempted" to delete something, then it would be gone.  But, it's still there.  Right?

Including the old forum, I have been a member here for 9 years with thousands of posts.  I have never deleted any of them in an attempt to hide one, ever.  I'm not sure why you constantly lie.  You lower the general IQ of this forum.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 09:31:59 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him.  Taking the cab three blocks past the rooming house would accomplish this.  Getting out of the cab at Zangs would not accomplish this."

Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?

I'm not concerned with your failure to understand exactly what I said.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:00:44 PM
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I'm not concerned with your failure to understand exactly what I said.

Hey...Billy,   It's a simple question....Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
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Hey...Billy,   It's a simple question....Can you explain how law enforcement could have been there at the rooming house less than 20 minutes after the murder?

I have never said that law enforcement could have been at the rooming house less than twenty minutes after the murder.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:19:34 PM
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I have never said that law enforcement could have been at the rooming house less than twenty minutes after the murder.

But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm.... And using your scenario,    AFTER  he would have ridden four blocks past the rooming house ( then got out and paid the driver and started walking AWAY from the rooming house, then reversed his course and walked back to the rooming house .   The time consumed in the above imaginary scenario would have taken about ten minutes...... And since Lee arrived at 1:00 pm the law enforcement officers that you believe could have been there waiting for him would have had to have arrived before 12:50 pm..

And that's twenty minutes after JFK was murdered....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:41:06 PM
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But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm.... And using your scenario,    AFTER  he would have ridden four blocks past the rooming house ( then got out and paid the driver and started walking AWAY from the rooming house, then reversed his course and walked back to the rooming house .   The time consumed in the above imaginary scenario would have taken about ten minutes...... And since Lee arrived at 1:00 pm the law enforcement officers that you believe could have been there waiting for him would have had to have arrived before 12:50 pm..

And that's twenty minutes after JFK was murdered....


Quote
But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee...

No. I didn't.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
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No. I didn't.

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:57:17 PM
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well then..what happened to this post...

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/40125635681_5b031f892f_b.jpg)
..only left as a quote

My post is STILL THERE.

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 07, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
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Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

Do you rember posting this on 2 /2/18 @11:03 Mr Brown?

"Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."

Yes, I posted that and I stand by that.

But, you're mistakenly attributing far more than that to me.

I've already explained this.  Get a clue.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
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Yes, I posted that and I stand by that.

But, you're mistakenly attributing far more than that to me.

I've already explained this.  Get a clue.

What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 12:55:17 AM
Oswald tells the driver to go past his boarding house so he can check it out.
That doesn't mean the cops knew his address that early on.
It means Oswald was being cautious.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 12:58:50 AM
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What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?

I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 01:19:23 AM
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Oswald tells the driver to go past his boarding house so he can check it out.
That doesn't mean the cops knew his address that early on.
It means Oswald was being cautious.

Huh???.....  How could the cops go to any location without knowing the address??

And....   You imagine that Lee was being cautious ..and you ASSUME that he was being cautious because you imagine that he suspected the cops might be there waiting for him.

That idea is utterly nuts!.....   Lee knew that nobody knew that he had a rented room at 1026 N. Beckley.  So WHY would he imagine that the police could have arrived at his room faster than he did???

Has it ever occurred t you that IF IF Lee had been the passenger in Whaley's cab and he was worried about being intercepted and he hesitated to get to his room and out again a fast as possible, he would have been placing himself in greater jeopardy by walking the four blocks , back to the rooming house, right out in the open and wasting that time.


Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 01:34:45 AM
You're waffling man.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 01:42:16 AM
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You're waffling man.

Does "waffling" mean... kickin ass... where you live Mr Anderson?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 08, 2018, 09:26:35 AM
London.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:14:58 PM
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What part of ....."Oswald wanted the cab to pass by the rooming house so he could determine if law enforcement was already there waiting for him."...shouldn't be attributed to you... the author?

I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.

Do you finally understand, now?  Or, do I need to explain it to you a third time?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 03:43:38 PM
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I said that, yes.  It's there for all to see (except for Michael Capasse, apparently) and I stand by it.

But that is not what you're claiming I said.  Even though you quote my exact words, you can't seem to grasp exactly what I said.  Strange.

Below is what you seem to think I am saying, even though I have never said it.

"But you did say that they could have arrived before Lee and Lee arrived at 1:00 pm...." - Walt Cakebread


To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

If you feel that someone is saying that the authorities could have been there that quickly, then take it up with the person who is saying such a thing.  I haven't said it.

Do you finally understand, now?  Or, do I need to explain it to you a third time?

I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

But you fully endorsed  what you imagined Lee Oswald was thinking and the action you imagine he took.....

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.

But now that you've been cornered and you realize your imagined scenario is not plausible....you're desperately attempting to wiggle under the door and escape.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
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I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

I never said that I felt the authorities could possibly be there at that early stage.

You still don't get it?

Typical.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 03:57:32 PM
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You still don't get it?

Typical.

Oh I get it alright.....  I know a back pedaler when I see one....   
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 03:58:59 PM
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Oh I get it alright.....  I know a back pedaler when I see one....

No backpedaling here.

I gotta call it like it is, you're just too damn dumb to understand, even though I have clearly explained it twice.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
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No backpedaling here.

I gotta call it like it is, you're just too damn dumb to understand, even thought I have clearly explained it twice.

No back pedaling?.....Let's take a look.

Billy Bob Brown wrote:...

"The only thing that is utter nonsense is your belief that there is no chance in hell that Oswald couldn't know, during his thirty minute trek to Oak Cliff, what the authorities had learned about him by that point. Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense." 

Taking the cab past the rooming house to see if the police were there makes perfect sense.


So on one hand you're saying that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald decided on the spur of the moment to murder JFK....and he had no accomplices ...He was just a lone nut.    Therefore nobody could have been prepared before hand to stop him from assassinating JFK or intercept him after the murder.....

But in this post you're presenting the idea that the cops did know where he lived and they were prepared to intercept him, and he was concerned that they might be waiting for him to show up at the rooming house less than thirty minutes after the murder.

Do I have that right, Billy Bob?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Steve Logan on February 08, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
Advice for Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=RfGDzgyeZPc

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 08, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
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Advice for Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=RfGDzgyeZPc

I think you're right, Steve.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 08, 2018, 07:22:03 PM
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To spell it out for you, I said that Oswald wanted the cab to go past the rooming house so he could see if the authorities were there.

Well, given that you're not a mindreader, you don't actually know what Oswald wanted.  So we're left with deciding whether it even makes sense for Oswald to want to do this, given that nobody knew where he was living.

Or whether it makes more sense that Whaley's passenger told Whaley to take him where he actually was going.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 08:44:38 PM
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Well, given that you're not a mindreader, you don't actually know what Oswald wanted.  So we're left with deciding whether it even makes sense for Oswald to want to do this, given that nobody knew where he was living.

Or whether it makes more sense that Whaley's passenger told Whaley to take him where he actually was going.

AS I recall Whaley's passenger told Whaley he wanted to go to the 500 block of N. Beckley.... but he told Whaley to pull over and let him out before they reached the destination....  Apparently the man was watching the meter and realized that the dollar he had wasn't going to cover the fare to that destination. 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 08, 2018, 10:03:34 PM
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AS I recall Whaley's passenger told Whaley he wanted to go to the 500 block of N. Beckley.... but he told Whaley to pull over and let him out before they reached the destination....  Apparently the man was watching the meter and realized that the dollar he had wasn't going to cover the fare to that destination.

That's not what Whaley said in his affidavit.  He said "when I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped".
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2018, 11:49:22 PM
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That's not what Whaley said in his affidavit.  He said "when I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped".

I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

I just checked.....

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 09, 2018, 12:06:24 AM
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I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 09, 2018, 12:37:28 AM
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In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.

Question:....  Wouldn't you conclude that Whaley's passenger in the blue Workman's clothing was watching the meter and knew he had only a dollar.....which wasn't enough for the fare to the 500 block of Beckley so he told Whaley to pull to the curb and got out a couple of blocks short of the 500 block?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 09, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
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In his first testimony taken on March 12, he said:

"But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there."

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Then they reinterviewed him on April 8 and asked him the same questions again (why?) at which point his memory must have "improved":

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.

Note that Neches doesn't even intersect with Beckley.

Which is just another indication that Whaley was just a simple ( illiterate )cabbie who confused Neely with Neches....

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 10, 2018, 02:17:03 PM
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I did not review Whaley's testimony but I thought he said that when the man in the blue workmans uniform entered his cab at 12:30, the man gave him a destination of 500 block of N Beckley.....but the man told Whaley to pull over to the curb and he got out of the taxi in the 700 block.....

I just checked.....

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?

Since the rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.....It's obvious that the 500 block was five blocks past the rooming house.

If Lee Oswald had been Whaley's passenger  he wouldn't have wasted time by driving five blocks past the rooming house and the walk back those five blocks.....  One block would have been sufficient if the passenger had been Lee Oswald and he wanted to check the area for signs that the faster than a speeding bullet Dallas police were waiting for him....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 10, 2018, 07:39:45 PM
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Since the rooming house was at 1026 N Beckley.....It's obvious that the 500 block was five blocks past the rooming house.

If Lee Oswald had been Whaley's passenger  he wouldn't have wasted time by driving five blocks past the rooming house and the walk back those five blocks.....  One block would have been sufficient if the passenger had been Lee Oswald and he wanted to check the area for signs that the faster than a speeding bullet Dallas police were waiting for him....

Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 10, 2018, 08:03:23 PM
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Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.

Yes I know John....But you'd think that they would be smart enough to see how implausible and poorly reasoned their theory is....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 01:12:57 PM
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Right.  That's just a lame attempt from the LN crowd to desperately inject a "consciousness of guilt" because they don't have any real evidence.

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Yes I know John....But you'd think that they would be smart enough to see how implausible and poorly reasoned their theory is....

Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 01:46:14 PM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes..... 

 

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 05:38:10 PM
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Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....


Quote
IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....

Nope.  I never said that.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 05:53:20 PM
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Whaley then drove Oswald over to Oak Cliff and, according to his testimony of March 12th, 1963, dropped him at the 500 block of North Beckley. The Warren Commission became incredibly preoccupied with the timings involved in this cab ride because Oswald needed to be at his rooming house at 1:00pm so he could set off on time for his rendezvous with Officer J.D. Tippit. Unfortunately, in William Whaley’s first round of testimony that he gave in Washington D.C. he threw a spanner in the works. He stated under oath that the journey from the Greyhound station to the 500 block of North Beckley took “nine minutes.” The cab driver of 37 years was adamant that the journey took nine minutes. The Warren Commission had to get Oswald from the bus to the Greyhound station between 12:44pm and 12:47pm. Three minutes to walk three blocks. Remember Whaley stated that Oswald “slowly” walked up to the taxi so it gives the appearance that Oswald was quite casual in his approach. If Oswald did make the three blocks whilst slowly walking from Elm Street to Lamar in three minutes then a nine minute taxi ride to Oak Cliff would have dropped him at the 500 block of Beckley at 12:56. He now has to walk 5 blocks in less than 4 minutes. The Warren Commission got around this by getting Whaley back on the stand on April 8th, 1963. Whaley now u-turned on his testimony that he gave the previous month. The Commission, prior to this “new” testimony got Whaley to accompany a Secret Service driver and do a “new” set of re-enactments. The journey now took, not 9 minutes, but “a little more than 5 minutes.” Not only did the “new” re-enactments come in significantly lower than the “old” set that Whaley had performed with the FBI but the location where Oswald got out had also changed. Whaley now claimed that Oswald got out at the 700 block of North Beckley. Oswald was now in the taxi for three and half minutes less time AND he was closer to the boarding house. Job done. Or so it would seem.  copied from an internet site.....
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t505-william-whaley-cab-36-and-lee-oswald


Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

The time of nine minutes for the trip may be a bit low also..... It all depends on the speed that Whaley traveled.... 
If Whaley drove 30 MPH he elapsed time for the trip would have been about 11 minutes.....

So for the sake of easy arithmetic let's say the trip from the bus depot to the 700 block of N. Beckley took 10 minutes.

Then Lee would have had to walk back to the rooming house and Belin said they timed that walk at nearly 6 minutes.

Lee arrived at the rooming house at 1:00 pm .....so if he had been Whaley's passenger he would have passed by the rooming house at about 12:52pm... ( accounting for the time for the cab to travel three blocks and  paying the fare and disembarking)

IOW....  Mr Brown believes that the police could have determined that the assassin was the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald, and discovered that the villain was living at 1026 N Beckley and then traveled too that Beckley address in less than 22 minutes.....

In his original affdavit Whaley wrote that he was at the Greyhound bus station at 12:20.....

And he said nothing about a lady asking Whaley to call a cab for her.....  Which would have been unnecessary because the area in front of the Greyhound station was a designated Taxi stand.......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 11, 2018, 06:11:27 PM
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Nope.  I never said that.

Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)   He would have saved about eight minutes if he had asked to be transported to the 900 block of N. Beckley.

IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

I think the obvious answer is....  Whaley was a bullSitting  cabbie who allowed his BSing to get him involved in a mess that the WC used in a fabricated scenario to frame Lee Oswald.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 11, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
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Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)   He would have saved about eight minutes if he had asked to be transported to the 900 block of N. Beckley.

IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

I think the obvious answer is....  Whaley was a bullSitting  cabbie who allowed his BSing to get him involved in a mess that the WC used in a fabricated scenario to frame Lee Oswald.


Quote
Really?.....   Didn't you say that Lee Oswald was Whaley's passenger and he told Whaley that he wanted to go to the 500 block of N Beckley?

Yes.


Quote
500 N.Beckley was  FIVE  blocks past the rooming house....  And according to the official tale Lee was in a hurry....and yet he would have wasted time by riding FIVE blocks past the rooming house just so he could see if there were any police waiting for him at the rooming house.... If Lee had been in Whaleys cab he could have given Whaley the 900 block of N.Beckley as his destination and accomplished what you believe he did..( assuring himself that there were no police waiting for him)

In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


Quote
IOW....He would have arrived at he rooming house at about 12:50  instead of 1:00 pm.....and that would have had him departing the Greyhound bus station at about 12:40....ooops!....Big Problem here....He was on Mc Watters bus at 12:40.

First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Mytton on February 11, 2018, 11:47:03 PM
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Yes.


In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.



I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:14:30 AM
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Yes.


In my opinion, Oswald exited the cab three blocks south of the rooming house (instead of just one block) in an attempt to distance himself from the rooming house in case Whaley somehow came to realize who he gave a ride to at a point in time before the authorities were aware of the rooming house.  In other words, I think Oswald was covering all the possibilities at both ends of the spectrum (make sure the police weren't at the rooming house AND don't let a cab driver know his true address).  Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.


First of all, at one minute per block, how does walking four extra blocks equate to saving ten minutes?

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.

Anyway, I believe Oswald, seeing that there were no police cars at the rooming house, decided to exit the cab just three blocks past the house, not five.  So your scenario of having Oswald exit the cab in the 900 block would have saved him two blocks, which is only two minutes of walking time, not the ten minutes like you suggest above.

Here's what David Belin said....   It's not my suggestion....  Nearly six minutes to walk back to the rooming house and that's not counting the time in the cab or paying the driver, or walking AWAY from the rooming house....

Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30 seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and let the record further show that Dr: Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at the residence at 1026 North Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

So ten minutes is a reasonable time.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:23:54 AM
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I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM

Mr Mytton you're not worth debating......  You can be shown solid FACTS and you ignore them and offer some stupid theory in rebuttal.  You're intellectually dishonest.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:34:06 AM
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I reckon that Oswald told Whaley that his address was on the 500 block of Beckley and Whaley wrote down the 500 block of Beckley but Oswald realizing that the coast was clear got off at 700, and as the day wore on and Oswald became a just a distant memory, Whaley later referred to his written notes to refresh his memory and saw the 500 block.
And the extra distance of the fare would be probably favourable for his time sheet?

(http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/CE%20382-Whaleys_taxi_manifest.jpg)

At a google type of every day walking it takes about 7 minutes but we know from Roberts that Oswald came in a rush.

(https://s17.postimg.org/kqzny9aq7/oswaldoutcab.jpg)

Btw I don't know where the CTs are going with this because the much more powerful evidence is that Earlene Roberts saw Oswald at about 1PM and that's enough time for Oswald to to meet Tippit at the corner of Patton and Tenth



JohnM

Look at Whaley's manifest.....The last entry says the passenger paid $1.05 for a 4 mile ride.....

The wino who was wearing the blue Workman's uniform that Whaley transported from the Greyhound bus station to the 700 block of N. Beckley paid a fare of 95 cents and Whaley said the meter was just short of clicking to $1.05 when the man exited his taxi...IOW the trip was just short of 4 miles......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 12, 2018, 04:30:55 AM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Why don't you explain this first?

Quote on

The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and took a bus AND A CAB to get to his rooming house room to retrieve the pistol and jacket.  But as John Mytton showed Captain Will Fritz testified to something else LHO said he did!

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

Quote off
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 12, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
And Clinton said  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky''.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 12:19:58 PM
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Why don't you explain this first?

Quote on

The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and took a bus AND A CAB to get to his rooming house room to retrieve the pistol and jacket.  But as John Mytton showed Captain Will Fritz testified to something else LHO said he did!

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

Quote off

We simply don't know how Lee was transported from the TSBD to the rooming house... to the theater.....

I believe most reasonable and intelligent folks can assimilate the facts and understand that Lee was NOT he passenger in Whaley's taxi.

And the WC lawyers certainly understood that fact because the worked diligently to  warp and twist the facts in this episode. Primarily by presenting the idea that Lee was guilty and needed to be sure here were no police awaiting his arrival at he rooming house.

When that idea is scrutinized it simply doesn't wash......

And neither does this account.....
He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show.

According to the reports filed by the various people at the Saturday interrogation, Lee told them that He had got off the bus and had  taken a taxi and he knew that he had paid 85 cents for that ride.   

IMO the fact that Lee said the fare was 85 cents is a solid indication that he did in fact take a taxi....but it was NOT William Whaley's taxi.

The 85 cent fare would have been the correct fare to transport him from the Greyhound bus depot to the intersection of  Zangs and Beckley.   Recall that Henry Wade told reporters that the cab driver's name was Daryle Glick.....or Click...

The question is:.....Why were the WC lawyers so determined to hide the truth about Lee Oswald's method of transport??? 

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 03:13:18 PM
Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the considerable trouble and risk to make up a bus and cab ride story?  Imagine the risk that entails in convincing random witnesses who are on the bus to confirm (or least not deny) that Oswald got on the bus.  And then a cab driver.  How would the conspirators even have a clue which bus or cab would be in position?  What would be the point since the bus went nowhere?  What if Oswald was seen elsewhere or arrested at the same time he was supposed to be on the bus or cab?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned event.  The only possible explanation in a conspiracy scenario is that the conspirators assisted Oswald in his getaway from the TSBD.  But why would they do this is they wanted him dead?  Why assist him in getting away from the TSBD but then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why take him there to begin with if they are assisting him?  Why not just keep driving for Mexico?  If they are not assisting him, why not just leave him at the TSBD?  If you are not suggesting a conspiracy here but simply that Oswald got to his boardinghouse via some other means on his own, it doesn't seem to matter much.  You are wrong but it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 03:27:18 PM
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Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the considerable trouble and risk to make up a bus and cab ride story?  Imagine the risk that entails in convincing random witnesses who are on the bus to confirm (or least not deny) that Oswald got on the bus.  And then a cab driver.  How would the conspirators even have a clue which bus or cab would be in position?  What would be the point since the bus went nowhere?  What if Oswald was seen elsewhere or arrested at the same time he was supposed to be on the bus or cab?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned event.  The only possible explanation in a conspiracy scenario is that the conspirators assisted Oswald in his getaway from the TSBD.  But why would they do this is they wanted him dead?  Why assist him in getting away from the TSBD but then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why take him there to begin with if they are assisting him?  Why not just keep driving for Mexico?  If they are not assisting him, why not just leave him at the TSBD?  If you are not suggesting a conspiracy here but simply that Oswald got to his boardinghouse via some other means on his own, it doesn't seem to matter much.  You are wrong but it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity.

It is amusing that you keep on asking questions based on the idea that "the conspirators" must have planned everything to minute detail in advance and you don't give a thought to the possibility of a narrative being constructed after the fact and using available (reliable or not) information.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 04:00:13 PM
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It is amusing that you keep on asking questions based on the idea that "the conspirators" must have planned everything to minute detail in advance and you don't give a thought to the possibility of a narrative being constructed after the fact and using available (reliable or not) information.

LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.  In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.  Even Houdini couldn't pull that off.  Did they also have a time machine to go back and figure out which bus and cab would have been in place at the correct times?  And that the bus went nowhere necessitating a fake cab ride.  And who would be on the bus etc.  It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact" as you stupidly suggest unless they had real time knowledge of the bus and cab in place at that moment.  And they could only know that if they planned this in advance.  I know that it is difficult for you to be anything other than a lazy contrarian but assume the fetal position in some dark place and try thinking for once. 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.  In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.  Even Houdini couldn't pull that off.  Did they also have a time machine to go back and figure out which bus and cab would have been in place at the correct times?  And that the bus went nowhere necessitating a fake cab ride.  And who would be on the bus etc.  It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact" as you stupidly suggest unless they had real time knowledge of the bus and cab in place at that moment.  And they could only know that if they planned this in advance.  I know that it is difficult for you to be anything other than a lazy contrarian but assume the fetal position in some dark place and try thinking for once.

LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 12, 2018, 04:23:50 PM
The WC was stuck with Whaley who the DPD came up with.

The WC (and Whaley) get all entangled in this quarter hour trip time nonsense because BALL/BELIN have to work backwards from a close to one o'clock rooming house arrival. They settle on a Whaley triptime of 5:30, meaning "Oswald" entered cab @12:47/48 and exited @12:54.

Looking at Whaley's trip sheet the WC can't even get their start time inside the window in Whaley's trip sheet (12:30 - 12:45)!

This part of the testimony shows BALL is totally screwed when it comes to actual vs guestimated times:

Mr. WHALEY. 12 o'clock I got a call to the Travis Hotel. I have got it marked 16 which is the Continental bus station, stand No. 15, 55 cents. I unloaded that at 12:15.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go at 12:15 according to you record?
Mr. WHALEY. According to my record I got a pickup at the Continental bus station which is stand 16 and went to the Greyhound which is 55 cents. I unloaded at the Greyhound, I have got it marked 12:30. See there is that 15 minutes you say I am off, I just mark it 15, I don't put the correct time on the sheet because they don't require it, sir, but anywhere approximate.
Mr. BALL. In other words, it took you about 15 minutes to go--
Mr. WHALEY. It actually took about nine minutes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you put the trip ending Greyhound around 12:30?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

BOOM: The pre-"Oswald" trip actually started 12:21 and ended, ACTUALLY, at 12:30 as stated in Whaley's AFFIDAVIT.

Mr. BALL. You remember that trip, do you, you remember the fact that you took the trip to the Greyhound and parked your car at the Greyhound or your cab at the Greyhound, don't you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I remember it.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing at the Greyhound, at your cab stand at the Greyhound, long before you picked up another passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, there was no one at the Greyhound stand and when I unloaded at the door I just pulled up about 30 feet to the stand and stopped and then I wanted a package of cigarettes, I was out so I started to get out and I saw this passenger coming so I waited for him.

"Oswald" was there right after 12:30, just when he also left the TSBD - OOPS.

The Comission tried to dismantle that bomb by calling it speculation but was sunk by Whaley himself:

Speculation.—The log of the cabdriver who took Oswald to North
Beckley Avenue, William W. Whaley, shows that Oswald entered his
cab at 12 :30 p.m. Since this occurred at some distance from the point
of the President's assassination, Oswald could not have shot the
President.
GommAssion finding.—Whaley's log does show 12 :30 p.m., but he has
testified that he was not accurate in logging the time that passengers
entered his cab, that he usually logged them at 15-minute intervals,
and that it was undoubtedly some time later than 12 :30 when Oswald
entered his cab. Sometimes he did not make entries in his logbook
until three or four trips later. The bus transfer in Oswald's possession
was issued after 12 :36 p.m. The Commission has determined that
Oswald probably entered Whaley's cab at about 12 :47 or 12 :48 p.m.^54

NOTE early times in trip sheet where Whaley logs idle time as low as 10 minutes between trips.
 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 04:30:45 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.

Whew.  You are all over the place.  First it was planned after the fact.  Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.  Try to focus.  How would the conspirators know which bus would be in place at the right moment and who was on that bus?  How would they get someone on the bus to lie and confirm that Oswald got on?   How would they keep the others quiet?  Why add all these people to the conspiracy when the bus took Oswald nowhere and advanced his escape not one iota?  If the conspirators wanted Oswald dead, why give him any assistance after the fact and then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why not let him make his own way there or better yet knock him off at the TSBD?  Instead they give him a head start and cover story for how he reaches his boardinghouse necessitating the coordination of a complex web of facts in lightning speed that add multiple parties to the conspiracy at great risk for no apparent purpose except to put Oswald on a bus to nowhere.   Ridiculous.  You should beg forgiveness from intelligent people for even your feeble attempt to validate this nutty theory.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 04:59:04 PM
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Whew.  You are all over the place.  First it was planned after the fact.  Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.  Try to focus.  How would the conspirators know which bus would be in place at the right moment and who was on that bus?  How would they get someone on the bus to lie and confirm that Oswald got on?   How would they keep the others quiet?  Why add all these people to the conspiracy when the bus took Oswald nowhere and advanced his escape not one iota?  If the conspirators wanted Oswald dead, why give him any assistance after the fact and then abandon him at his boardinghouse?  Why not let him make his own way there or better yet knock him off at the TSBD?  Instead they give him a head start and cover story for how he reaches his boardinghouse necessitating the coordination of a complex web of facts in lightning speed that add multiple parties to the conspiracy at great risk for no apparent purpose except to put Oswald on a bus to nowhere.   Ridiculous.  You should beg forgiveness from intelligent people for even your feeble attempt to validate this nutty theory.

You really are not getting any of this, aren't you?

First it was planned after the fact. 

Now, you are just being plain weird. How in the world can anybody plan something after the fact? You can work with the available information and come up with a narrative, but that's something entirely different than planning something.

Now there were multiple plans in place beforehand.

Really? Where did I say that?

The remainder of your last rant isn't worth any reply or discussion for one single reason; all that strawman crap in your head.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 05:26:29 PM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.

Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex? 

Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly. 

Really? It seems to me they had two possible scenarios from the beginning; the first one was a bus/taxi scenario and the second one was a guy being picked up by a car on Elm street.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

It is somewhat difficult to understand how that narrative could have been constructed "after the fact"

Well it requires the use of a functional brain... perhaps that's your problem.

In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

Good Question!....  Did Lee have a bus transfer in his pocket when he was dragged from the theater ???...

Some reports say the cops pulled it from his shirt pocket while in the police car on the way to the police station....but the "official" report say it was taken from his pocket at the time he was booked at about 4:30 that afternoon.

Either way that transfer does NOT look like it's been handled roughly as it would have been if it had been in his shirt pocket at the theater......   It's possible that Lee received the transfer when he departed Mc Watter's bus and placed it in his shirt pocket.   Then when he changed shirts at the rooming house he forgot to remove the transfer ( it was useless at that point)  When the cops searched his room they took the reddish brown shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  to police headquarters and discovered the transfer.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 12, 2018, 06:40:29 PM
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In fact, they were so efficient that Oswald had a bus transfer in his pocket when arrested.

Did he?

Good Question!....  Did Lee have a bus transfer in his pocket when he was dragged from the theater ???...

Some reports say the cops pulled it from his shirt pocket while in the police car on the way to the police station....but the "official" report say it was taken from his pocket at the time he was booked at about 4:30 that afternoon.

Either way that transfer does NOT look like it's been handled roughly as it would have been if it had been in his shirt pocket at the theater......   It's possible that Lee received the transfer when he departed Mc Watter's bus and placed it in his shirt pocket.   Then when he changed shirts at the rooming house he forgot to remove the transfer ( it was useless at that point)  When the cops searched his room they took the reddish brown shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  to police headquarters and discovered the transfer.

Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on February 12, 2018, 06:48:29 PM
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Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.


You'll probably need another century to figure it out, but nobody is talking about evidence being faked. Well, uh.... nobody except you!

Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?

Simple answer that will probably confuse you ever more: They didn't create that impression!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 07:22:08 PM
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The WC was stuck with Whaley who the DPD came up with.

The WC (and Whaley) get all entangled in this quarter hour trip time nonsense because BALL/BELIN have to work backwards from a close to one o'clock rooming house arrival. They settle on a Whaley triptime of 5:30, meaning "Oswald" entered cab @12:47/48 and exited @12:54.

Looking at Whaley's trip sheet the WC can't even get their start time inside the window in Whaley's trip sheet (12:30 - 12:45)!

This part of the testimony shows BALL is totally screwed when it comes to actual vs guestimated times:

Mr. WHALEY. 12 o'clock I got a call to the Travis Hotel. I have got it marked 16 which is the Continental bus station, stand No. 15, 55 cents. I unloaded that at 12:15.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go at 12:15 according to you record?
Mr. WHALEY. According to my record I got a pickup at the Continental bus station which is stand 16 and went to the Greyhound which is 55 cents. I unloaded at the Greyhound, I have got it marked 12:30. See there is that 15 minutes you say I am off, I just mark it 15, I don't put the correct time on the sheet because they don't require it, sir, but anywhere approximate.
Mr. BALL. In other words, it took you about 15 minutes to go--
Mr. WHALEY. It actually took about nine minutes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you put the trip ending Greyhound around 12:30?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

BOOM: The pre-"Oswald" trip actually started 12:21 and ended, ACTUALLY, at 12:30 as stated in Whaley's AFFIDAVIT.

Mr. BALL. You remember that trip, do you, you remember the fact that you took the trip to the Greyhound and parked your car at the Greyhound or your cab at the Greyhound, don't you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I remember it.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing at the Greyhound, at your cab stand at the Greyhound, long before you picked up another passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, there was no one at the Greyhound stand and when I unloaded at the door I just pulled up about 30 feet to the stand and stopped and then I wanted a package of cigarettes, I was out so I started to get out and I saw this passenger coming so I waited for him.

"Oswald" was there right after 12:30, just when he also left the TSBD - OOPS.

The Comission tried to dismantle that bomb by calling it speculation but was sunk by Whaley himself:

Speculation.—The log of the cabdriver who took Oswald to North
Beckley Avenue, William W. Whaley, shows that Oswald entered his
cab at 12 :30 p.m. Since this occurred at some distance from the point
of the President's assassination, Oswald could not have shot the
President.
GommAssion finding.—Whaley's log does show 12 :30 p.m., but he has
testified that he was not accurate in logging the time that passengers
entered his cab, that he usually logged them at 15-minute intervals,
and that it was undoubtedly some time later than 12 :30 when Oswald
entered his cab. Sometimes he did not make entries in his logbook
until three or four trips later. The bus transfer in Oswald's possession
was issued after 12 :36 p.m. The Commission has determined that
Oswald probably entered Whaley's cab at about 12 :47 or 12 :48 p.m.^54

NOTE early times in trip sheet where Whaley logs idle time as low as 10 minutes between trips.

BOOM: The pre-"Oswald" trip actually started 12:21 and ended, ACTUALLY, at 12:30 as stated in Whaley's AFFIDAVIT.

I believe Whaley said that he dropped a passenger at the Greyhound bus station at 12:15 and then sat awaiting a call.At 12:20 he was parked in front of the Greyhound Depot and then moved forward to be the next  cab out.....He thought he would have time to step inside  buy a pack of cigarettes when the "wino" who was dressed in blue workman's uniform , and rumpled clothes ( "he looked like he had slept in his clothes" ) hailed him and asked him for a ride.

His handwritten affidavit clearly says it was 12:20 when he was parked an awaiting his turn to be next in line.  The wino in the blue work cloths entered his cab at about 12:30.....he wino was NOT Lee Oswald..,
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 12, 2018, 07:47:03 PM
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Finally we reach the Alamo defense.  THE EVIDENCE was faked.  LOL.  Just answer one simple question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?  Necessitating somehow knowing which bus to place him on, convincing those on the bus not to say otherwise (or to confirm his presence), and then to forever keep quiet.  Spin us a yarn.  Martin has embarrassed himself.  But maybe you can explain it.

Who said anything about the bus transfer being faked as much f the so called evidence is???

Why would your fantasy conspirators go to the trouble and risk to create the impression that Oswald was on a bus that took him absolutely nowhere?

HUH???.....   What the hell you been smokin??   I've never even hinted hat Lee wasn't on Cecil  Mc Watter's bus....( even though I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe)

I'm merely questioning how the transfer entered the evidence stream.....And due to it's pristine condition, I don't believe it was in Lee's pocket when he was dragged from the theater....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:18:31 AM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Whenever you can show that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:21:49 AM
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Remember, Oswald first walked south after exiting Whaley's cab to throw off Whaley about his true destination.

Talk about a circular argument!  Assume that Oswald was trying to evade the police in order to show that Oswald was trying to evade the police.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
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LOL.  That is because you can't follow along as usual.  Your fantasy conspirators must have been fast to construct this "after the fact" since Oswald's cab and bus ride became known pretty quickly.

What Fantasy Conspirators, Strawman Smith?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 12:26:59 AM
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Why is it that nearly all (if not all) LNs have this massive superiority complex?

They use it to make up for their lack of evidence.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
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They use it to make up for their lack of evidence.

Yeah....Well it falls far short.    Mytton is probably the most intellectually dishonest person posting.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 13, 2018, 04:32:08 AM
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Whenever you can show that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that Oswald gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Bill Brown on February 13, 2018, 04:34:06 AM
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Yeah....Well it falls far short.    Mytton is probably the most intellectually dishonest person posting.

I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 13, 2018, 05:09:16 AM
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Whenever either of you two can show something which casts doubt on the theory that Oswald had the cab go past the rooming house so that he could determine if the authorities were already there, then I'll be glad to have a look.

Was it unusual for Oswald to pass his rooming house on his way home?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 03:43:21 PM
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Talk about a circular argument!  Assume that Oswald was trying to evade the police in order to show that Oswald was trying to evade the police.

Yes!.....But not only circular..... It's not even a sound rational theory......

And the very basic premise is:....Lee Oswald was guilty, and therefore he performed the irrational action depicted in the imaginary nutty scenario.... 
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Gary Craig on February 13, 2018, 03:56:31 PM
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I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.

"I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner."

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/34513-see_hear_speak_no_evil.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
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"I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner."

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/34513-see_hear_speak_no_evil.jpg)

Hmmmm.... I was thinkin that Billy Bob hadn't seen Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner due to the location of his head.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 13, 2018, 04:09:52 PM
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What Fantasy Conspirators, Strawman Smith?

If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.  Like the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode away on from Ford's Theatre.  Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt.  When a CTer goes on and on that this cab ride was a fabrication that implies relevance in proving a conspiracy (e.g. it is a cover story for how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the conspirators gave him a ride).  But if you want to concede that the Whaley cab ride has absolutely no implications for proving a conspiracy (whether true or not) that is fine with me.  You can believe he sprouted wings and flew like a fairy.  I don't believe, however, that it what your fellow kooks are suggesting.  They are clearly implying the story was fabricated for some reason relating to the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:21:58 PM
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London.

Now I understand why your vision is so foggy......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Anderson on February 13, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
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Now I understand why your vision is so foggy......

You don't seem to understand much.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 04:40:35 PM
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If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.  Like the name of the horse John Wilkes Booth rode away on from Ford's Theatre.  Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt.  When a CTer goes on and on that this cab ride was a fabrication that implies relevance in proving a conspiracy (e.g. it is a cover story for how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the conspirators gave him a ride).  But if you want to concede that the Whaley cab ride has absolutely no implications for proving a conspiracy (whether true or not) that is fine with me.  You can believe he sprouted wings and flew like a fairy.  I don't believe, however, that it what your fellow kooks are suggesting.  They are clearly implying the story was fabricated for some reason relating to the conspiracy.

Whether Oswald took Whaley's cab or some other cab makes not much difference as to his guilt......

I believe that you are right....   But the question and crucial point is:.....WHY?  WHY did LBJ's Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee  go to such lengths in twisting the facts , and dreaming up scenarios like Lee riding past he rooming house to see if there were police there awaiting his arrival.....as they clearly did.

Obviously they painted him as being guilty and then proceeded to  manipulate the times and chronology for the events between Lee's departure from the TSBD and his arrival at his room.....

They had to have known that Whaley was a BSer and the man he had transported was NOT Lee Oswald...Just as you have acknowledged.....   

What was their reason for framing Lee Oswald?....    Could it be that they talked to Daryl Glick the cabbie who actually transported Lee to the rooming house, and then waited at the curb as he went in and changed his clothes, and then took him to the theater?   

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 05:57:58 PM
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I have never seen John Mytton post anything in a dishonest manner.

Mr Mytton posted the hand written affidavit of Bill Whaley......  That hand written affidavit clearly stated that Whaley was parked in front of the Greyhound Bus Station at 12:20 and waiting for a passenger to hire his taxi, and he departed with a passenger at 12:30.

Mr Mytton KNEW that information.....  and yet he argues that Whaley departed with the "Oswald" who was wearing a BLUE workman's uniform at 12:48.     

That is totally intellectually dishonest....  Is it not?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:20:39 PM
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After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that Oswald gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.

That's fine.  You're entitled to your own opinion regardless of how it's arrived at.

After reviewing every aspect, it's my opinion that there is no good reason whatsoever to assume that Whaley's passenger gave Whaley the 500 North Beckley destination so that he could determine if law enforcement was at 1026 North Beckley.  Nothing you have posted comes close to swaying my opinion on that.

Your argument completely rests on this assumption making sense to you.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:23:20 PM
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If CTers are not alleging some type of conspiracy involvement but merely that Oswald made his way to the boardinghouse via some means other than Whaley's cab, it has little relevance other than as an historical curiosity.

Then why do LNers try to prop this up as somehow being evidence that Oswald killed Kennedy?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
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Could it be that they talked to Daryl Glick the cabbie who actually transported Lee to the rooming house

(http://fighttrolls.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aw_jeez.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 08:36:36 PM
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(http://fighttrolls.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aw_jeez.jpg)

Well I'm sure that Lee was NOT Whaley's passenger.....But I does seem that Lee did take a cab to the rooming house because he knew the fare was 85 cents.....   And Henry Wade DID give a name of a cab driver who transported Lee to the rooming house....and that name was NOT  William Whaley.....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 08:39:44 PM
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Well I'm sure that Lee was NOT Whaley's passenger.....But I does seem that Lee did take a cab to the rooming house because he knew the fare was 85 cents.....   And Henry Wade DID give a name of a cab driver who transported Lee to the rooming house....and that name was NOT  William Whaley.....

No, he said "in Oak Cliff".

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 11:25:24 PM
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No, he said "in Oak Cliff".


Why did reporters think that Wade said Daryl Click??    How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 13, 2018, 11:30:20 PM
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Why did reporters think that Wade said Daryl Click??

Because they didn't have a Youtube video to refer to.

Quote
    How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?

LOL
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2018, 11:48:20 PM
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Because they didn't have a Youtube video to refer to.

LOL

How do you know the recording hasn't been tampered with?

LOL.... Likely or Logical
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 15, 2018, 04:31:28 PM
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No, he said "in Oak Cliff".


It is a fact that another cabbie was mentioned......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 15, 2018, 08:33:39 PM
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It is a fact that another cabbie was mentioned......

No it's not.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 15, 2018, 08:44:49 PM
Remembered his watch that day...

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 15, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
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Remembered his watch that day...

Maybe he bought one with that 5 cent tip.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on February 16, 2018, 05:26:33 AM
Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Scully on February 16, 2018, 07:54:03 AM
The word shiny appears in your post seven times but both records of Whaley's 23 November claims do not include that word, at all.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23Nov.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 16, 2018, 01:09:31 PM
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Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.

Pssssst....Zeon...... Anybody who saw this photo saw the bracelet......

(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

There's only the BSer William Whaley's word that he saw a bracelet on his passenger's wrist.  Whaley said that his passenger was wearing BLUE workman's clothing....  A blue jacket and blue trousers.....

Lee Oswald was not wearing a Jacket.....and he was wearing a brown shirt and gray trousers.....

It's possible that Whaley's wino passenger was wearing a bracelet....   But it's equally possible that Whaley saw the photo  and used the bracelet to bolster his BS tale about transporting the killer.

 Whaley could have told his BSin cabbie buddies, "I had no idea he'd just murdered the President...why he could have killed me too"
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on February 17, 2018, 04:15:15 AM
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The word shiny appears in your post seven times but both records of Whaley's 23 November claims do not include that word, at all.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23Nov.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)

Are you implying that Whaleys WC testimony using the word "shiny" was his own embellishment or someone coached him to add the  word?
Or he saw the photo as Walts suggest, later, and that's when Whaley added the word "shiny"?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 17, 2018, 01:44:33 PM
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Whaley is the only witness to have noticed the shiny wrist bracelet that Oswald was wearing.

All those other witnesses at the Tippet shooting scene, NONE mention seeing any bracelet. Even though they saw the shooter emptying his shells out and waving his gun in the air, ALL of them apparently failed to see the shiny bracelet.

Even AFTER Oswald (or another shooter) has apparently ditched his jacket under a car , no other witnesses saw a bracelet either. Not Johnny Brewer, not the ticket girl, not Butch Burroughs, not ANY apparently of the other people in the Texas Theater saw Oswalds shiny, bracelet.

Not even the struggling McDonald mentions seeing Oswald wearing a bracelet


(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/11/14/1114-lee-harvey-oswald-1963-ap-3.jpg)

But Whaley saw the bracelet:


Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

So a rather noticeable shiny bracelet, according to Whaley, which was unnoticed by all the Tippet scene witnesses, and all the other witness afterwards, even McDonald standing right next to Oswald in the Texas Theater.

This seems remarkable imo, it seems to defy probability.

Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?

Do any of you amateur Attorney's know what Ball did in asking Whaley the above?   

Clue....   It's called... L------ the witness....
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 17, 2018, 05:49:03 PM
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And Clinton said  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky''.

Clinton was an accomplished LNer......  He could tell the most obvious lie and then defend it as if it was the gospel truth...Just like a LNer.

PATHETIC!!
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 17, 2018, 07:25:26 PM
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And Clinton said  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky''.

And who was your comment directed at?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 18, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
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Are you implying that Whaleys WC testimony using the word "shiny" was his own embellishment or someone coached him to add the  word?
Or he saw the photo as Walts suggest, later, and that's when Whaley added the word "shiny"?

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then.
But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed
in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were
khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in
khaki.


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=whaley#relPageId=174&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/Whaley23NovFBI.jpg)

He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki.

In the last paragraph of the FBI report notice the FBI changed the color of the trousers that Whaley's passenger was wearing ...Whaley reported that the man was wearing a blue colored jacket and BLUE  trousers ...but the FBI changed Whaley's description  of his passenger's clothes so that the clothes matched the clothes that Lee left in his room after changing his clothes to go to the theater.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 19, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
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Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip when I picked up at the Greyhound I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.


JohnM

If Whaley calculated time in fifteen minute increments and the man who was wearing the BLUE workman's uniform clothing approached his cab at 12:30, he would not have thought it was 12:45.....   

BTW.... Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 19, 2018, 09:51:46 PM
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If Whaley calculated time in fifteen minute increments and the man who was wearing the BLUE workman's uniform clothing approached his cab at 12:30, he would not have thought it was 12:45.....   

BTW.... Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?

 Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 05:46:19 PM
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Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?

Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 20, 2018, 06:52:19 PM
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Mr Mytton, why did you delete Whaley's hand written affidavits ??.....  Do you lack the guts to debate those hand written affidavits?

Walt, forget about Mytton, there's no way around "at 12:30".

He also chickened out of his astronomical numbers in the jacket thread.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 06:59:46 PM
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Walt, forget about Mytton, there's no way around "at 12:30".

He also chickened out of his astronomical numbers in the jacket thread.

I'd really like to debate Coward Mytton about William Whaley's hand written affidavits.....But the coward deleted the exhibits.
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 20, 2018, 07:04:41 PM
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I'd really like to debate Coward Mytton about William Whaley's hand written affidavits.....But the coward deleted the exhibits.

But they will not go away in the Texas archives ;-)

Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 20, 2018, 07:34:13 PM
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But they will not go away in the Texas archives ;-)

Would you please post them......
Title: Re: Was Lee Oswald the passenger in Whaley's Taxi?
Post by: Tom Sorensen on February 20, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Whaley drafts...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340663/?q=William%20whaley

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340356/?q=William%20whaley