JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Walt Cakebread on February 24, 2019, 03:44:06 PM

Title: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 24, 2019, 03:44:06 PM
C' mon Vonzie ...Tell us how YOU can determine the caliber, the groove width,  the twist rate, and the proof that the bullet in the photo was fired from the TSBD carcano... 

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread

You can just skip the BS text....and look at the pretty picture.....

Referring to the pic on the right....How wide is the groove that is clearly visible on the copper jacket....(hint....There is a scale right there....)
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: David Von Pein on February 24, 2019, 03:47:43 PM
That's what the EXPERTS are paid to do, Cakebread. I'm not an FBI "expert" in firearms. But Robert A. Frazier was in 1963.

What makes YOUR (idiotic) opinion on the bullet fragments so much better and authoritative than the opinion of the firearms expert in the case?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 24, 2019, 04:13:23 PM
That's what the EXPERTS are paid to do, Cakebread. I'm not an FBI "expert" in firearms. But Robert A. Frazier was in 1963.

What makes YOUR (idiotic) opinion on the bullet fragments so much better and authoritative than the opinion of the firearms expert in the case?

Mr Von P...A person does not have to be an expert to measure the width of the groove in the bullet jacket in the photo.....Even you should be able to use the scale provided and find the width of that groove which was made by the lands in the barrel of the rifle from which the bullet was fired.

Can anybody help Vonzie perform this simple task?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 24, 2019, 11:28:34 PM
Mr Von P...A person does not have to be an expert to measure the width of the groove in the bullet jacket in the photo.....Even you should be able to use the scale provided and find the width of that groove which was made by the lands in the barrel of the rifle from which the bullet was fired.

Can anybody help Vonzie perform this simple task?

Hey Vonzie....I guess that it's too difficult for you to use the scale and determine dimensions of the bullet Jacket in the picture.....Here's something even a elementary school kid can do.....( so you may? be able to find the simple solution)   

Was the bullet fired from a barrel with a right hand or left hand twist rifling?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Ross Lidell on February 25, 2019, 07:20:12 AM
Mr Von P...A person does not have to be an expert to measure the width of the groove in the bullet jacket in the photo.....Even you should be able to use the scale provided and find the width of that groove which was made by the lands in the barrel of the rifle from which the bullet was fired.

Can anybody help Vonzie perform this simple task?

Ballistics experts match a specimen bullet with a sample test bullet using a comparison microscope... not measurements from photographs.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 25, 2019, 01:32:30 PM
Ballistics experts match a specimen bullet with a sample test bullet using a comparison microscope... not measurements from photographs.

That's true..... But  they also measur and weigh the bullet....So why don't you humor me and measure the groove width on that jacket......Or aren't you smart enough to read a scale?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 26, 2019, 09:09:06 PM
Frazier lined up the marks of the mutilated fragments in his mind, even though they did not actually physically line up in the microscope.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 26, 2019, 09:19:26 PM
Frazier lined up the marks of the mutilated fragments in his mind, even though they did not actually physically line up in the microscope.

John, can you use the metric scale provided in the photo and measure the width of the groove on that copper jacket?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 12:09:38 AM
Frazier lined up the marks of the mutilated fragments in his mind, even though they did not actually physically line up in the microscope.

Frazier lined up the marks of the mutilated fragments in his mind,

ROTFLMAO!.....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Ross Lidell on February 27, 2019, 12:53:50 AM
That's true..... But  they also measur and weigh the bullet....So why don't you humor me and measure the groove width on that jacket......Or aren't you smart enough to read a scale?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread

Walt,

You cannot humor a man who does not have a sense of humor!
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 01:12:58 AM
Walt,

You cannot humor a man who does not have a sense of humor!

That may be true....( but I doubt it) ... But anybody who has read my posts certainly is aware that I have a sense of humor....   Although You and I probably don't agree on what is humorous... But an example of my sense of humor is shown in my reply to a poster who said that Mrs Reid saw Lee entering the office area after the shooting and he was carrying a coke and was wearing ONLY a Tee shirt.    In my mind that is hilarious.....  and I replied that I'm sure that Mrs Reid would definitely remember that....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Ross Lidell on February 27, 2019, 01:26:14 AM
That may be true....( but I doubt it) ... But anybody who has read my posts certainly is aware that I have a sense of humor....   Although You and I probably don't agree on what is humorous... But an example of my sense of humor is shown in my reply to a poster who said that Mrs Reid saw Lee entering the office area after the shooting and he was carrying a coke and was wearing ONLY a Tee shirt.    In my mind that is hilarious.....  and I replied that I'm sure that Mrs Reid would definitely remember that....

She meant "ONLY a T-shirt" as an above-waist garment. She observed that Oswald was not wearing another shirt or a jacket over the T-shirt. I have no sense of humor!!!
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 01:35:22 AM
She meant "ONLY a T-shirt" as an above-waist garment. She observed that Oswald was not wearing another shirt or a jacket over the T-shirt. I have no sense of humor!!!

Psssst..Dumbass.... I know what the poster intended to convey... But that's NOT what he wrote..... 

When the person hearing a joke isn't smart enough to appreciate the joke and it needs to be explained to the dolt ...the joke loses it's humor....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Paul May on February 27, 2019, 01:51:18 AM
One cannot read this thread without shaking their heads in amazement.  I?m guessing the best 3 years of Walt?s life was 4th grade.

Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 01:54:34 AM
One cannot read this thread without shaking their heads in amazement.  I?m guessing the best 3 years of Walt?s life was 4th grade.

Oh WOW!!.... One Dolt supporting another Dolt.....  Talk about "amazing"
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Paul May on February 27, 2019, 02:07:35 AM
Oh WOW!!.... One Dolt supporting another Dolt.....  Talk about "amazing"

You don?t know this case. You don?t understand the evidence. You cannot articulate anything relevant and believe ?dolt? is an intelligent response.  You show your ignorance to all by challenging an authority, one DVP and seeking confirmation bias from like minded ?dolts?.  Trust me Walt, only Caprio daily, displays your level of ignorance.  That indeed is a special club.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 02:15:55 AM
You don?t know this case. You don?t understand the evidence. You cannot articulate anything relevant and believe ?dolt? is an intelligent response.  You show your ignorance to all by challenging an authority, one DVP and seeking confirmation bias from like minded ?dolts?.  Trust me Walt, only Caprio daily, displays your level of ignorance.  That indeed is a special club.

Show us that you're not a Dolt, Mr May....  Use the scale in the photo and measure the width of the groove on the copper jacket in the photo.....

This is your big day.... so be careful....  show the world how smart you are....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 27, 2019, 06:10:02 PM
Show us that you're not a Dolt, Mr May....  Use the scale in the photo and measure the width of the groove on the copper jacket in the photo.....

This is your big day.... so be careful....  show the world how smart you are....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread

I believe the groove width on the copper jacket measures 1.5 mm across......   
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 28, 2019, 12:49:04 PM
I believe the groove width on the copper jacket measures 1.5 mm across......

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 28, 2019, 10:32:07 PM
I believe the groove width on the copper jacket measures 1.5 mm across......

What say you?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 02, 2019, 09:06:39 PM
Show us that you're not a Dolt, Mr May....  Use the scale in the photo and measure the width of the groove on the copper jacket in the photo.....

This is your big day.... so be careful....  show the world how smart you are....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread

Hello.... Paul....  Hello??   Hmmmmm...I guess he chickened out.....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Peter Kleinschmidt on March 03, 2019, 04:55:20 AM
She meant "ONLY a T-shirt" as an above-waist garment. She observed that Oswald was not wearing another shirt or a jacket over the T-shirt. I have no sense of humor!!!
Believe it or not, you don't need a sense of humor to understand. Just the fact that you felt the need to clarify what Mrs. Reid observed shows you're way behind and suggests you have no sense at all.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 03, 2019, 04:03:01 PM
Believe it or not, you don't need a sense of humor to understand. Just the fact that you felt the need to clarify what Mrs. Reid observed shows you're way behind and suggests you have no sense at all.

I gotta admit....Mrs Reid might not have thought it hilarious to see Lee Oswald enter the Office area carrying a coke and wearing only a Tee Shirt .....But the mental projection of that image strikes me as hilarious....  And I can guarantee Mrs Reid would damned sure have remember it!!....

And I was simply being flippant ........I never thought that I'd have to explain myself.

But the bottom line is:.... I seriously doubt Mrs Reid's tale.....   And I don't believe that she was a malicious liar.....  She simply told a Texas tale and never dreamed that it would blow up in her face.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jerry Freeman on March 03, 2019, 07:55:51 PM
David is attached wrists and ankles to the lone gunman theory.
This much is exposed on the edforum. However a lot of things are just simply ignored.
He has devoted the last two decades compiling stuff.
David Von Pein go to this post and please explain it as there has been no other intelligent response to this discrepancy.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1352.msg44653.html#msg44653
Reply 191
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Peter Kleinschmidt on March 03, 2019, 08:16:16 PM
I gotta admit....Mrs Reid might not have thought it hilarious to see Lee Oswald enter the Office area carrying a coke and wearing only a Tee Shirt .....But the mental projection of that image strikes me as hilarious....  And I can guarantee Mrs Reid would damned sure have remember it!!....

And I was simply being flippant ........I never thought that I'd have to explain myself.

But the bottom line is:.... I seriously doubt Mrs Reid's tale.....   And I don't believe that she was a malicious liar.....  She simply told a Texas tale and never dreamed that it would blow up in her face.
No, you have to let the serious guy Ross decide, after all, if you were to say it's partly cloudy he may correct you by saying it's partly sunny
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 01:15:54 AM
That's true..... But  they also measur and weigh the bullet....So why don't you humor me and measure the groove width on that jacket......Or aren't you smart enough to read a scale?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Walt+Cakebread

Anybody?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 05, 2019, 06:31:16 AM
I believe the groove width on the copper jacket measures 1.5 mm across......


It is 3.3mm
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 05, 2019, 02:26:48 PM
Anybody?

The picture you are referencing is not the groove. It is the land. The land measures 1.8 mm just like Frazier stated a carcano barrel's lands and grooves are supposed to be. The barrel's groove is 3.3 mm

Frazier referring to a carcano's lands and grooves while discussing the Walker Bullet. The same as the barrel cast from CE 139

Mr. EISENBERG - Can you describe the general rifling characteristics which you referred to?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes. They consist of impressions from four lands and grooves. The bullet is mutilated on a portion of its surface. However, it can be determined that there were four land impressions and four groove impressions originally on this bullet.
The width of the land impression is 7/100ths of an inch, that is 0.07 inch--whereas the width of the groove impression is 0.13 inch, or 13/100ths of an inch.
The bullet is flattened so that it was not possible to measure its diameter. However, by adding the land width to the groove width, and multiplying by the number of lands and grooves, you can determine the circumference of the bullet and mathematically determine its diameter, which in this case corresponds to 6.5 mm. ammunition, or approximately .267 inch.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was the direction of the twist?
Mr. FRAZIER - To the right.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 04:45:24 PM

It is 3.3mm

Where are you measuring?   That 3.3 cannot be ACROSS the groove......
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
The picture you are referencing is not the groove. It is the land. The land measures 1.8 mm just like Frazier stated a carcano barrel's lands and grooves are supposed to be. The barrel's groove is 3.3 mm

Frazier referring to a carcano's lands and grooves while discussing the Walker Bullet. The same as the barrel cast from CE 139

Mr. EISENBERG - Can you describe the general rifling characteristics which you referred to?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes. They consist of impressions from four lands and grooves. The bullet is mutilated on a portion of its surface. However, it can be determined that there were four land impressions and four groove impressions originally on this bullet.
The width of the land impression is 7/100ths of an inch, that is 0.07 inch--whereas the width of the groove impression is 0.13 inch, or 13/100ths of an inch.
The bullet is flattened so that it was not possible to measure its diameter. However, by adding the land width to the groove width, and multiplying by the number of lands and grooves, you can determine the circumference of the bullet and mathematically determine its diameter, which in this case corresponds to 6.5 mm. ammunition, or approximately .267 inch.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was the direction of the twist?
Mr. FRAZIER - To the right.

The LAND in the barrel creates a GROOVE in the projectile as the projectile is fired through the barrel.   

The GROOVE on the jacket is called a GROOVE .....  And that's what I'm referring to. 

I simply asked for anybody to use the scale and measure the width of the groove....Simple..... If you can't do that then ....move on.....
I had hoped that an honest person would simply measure the distance ACROSS the groove on the copper jacket.....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 05, 2019, 06:15:38 PM
The LAND in the barrel creates a GROOVE in the projectile as the projectile is fired through the barrel.   

The GROOVE on the jacket is called a GROOVE .....  And that's what I'm referring to. 

I simply asked for anybody to use the scale and measure the width of the groove....Simple..... If you can't do that then ....move on.....
I had hoped that an honest person would simply measure the distance ACROSS the groove on the copper jacket.....


Cakebread: ...."The lands in the rifling of a Mannlicher Carcano barrel measure 2 mm across...  This bullet was NOT fired from a Mannlicher Carcano."


No, it is very specific.  The nomenclature does not change because you don't know what you are talking about. The "land impression" on the bullet fragment measures approximately(.07 inches) 1.8 mm.  The "groove impression" measures approximately(.13 inches) 3.3mm. Because you can't read a ruler doesn't mean Frazier could not. If you can read the "land impression" is 1.5mm it is only because you want to. Frazier made a Sulphur cast of CE 139's barrel he knew exactly the dimensions of the rifle's lands and grooves.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 06:27:26 PM

Cakebread: ...."The lands in the rifling of a Mannlicher Carcano barrel measure 2 mm across...  This bullet was NOT fired from a Mannlicher Carcano."


No, it is very specific.  The nomenclature does not change because you don't know what you are talking about. The "land impression" on the bullet fragment measures approximately(.07 inches) 1.8 mm.  The "groove impression" measures approximately(.13 inches) 3.3mm. Because you can't read a ruler doesn't mean Frazier could not. If you can read the "land impression" is 1.5mm it is only because you want to. Frazier made a Sulphur cast of CE 139's barrel he knew exactly the dimensions of the rifle's lands and grooves.

Jack...Your desperation is hangin out a country mile....  The lands in the barrel create the grooves on the projectile ...Just as the treads on a tire create the track in the dirt....   Now go play marbles on the freeway....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 05, 2019, 11:00:22 PM
What are the units on the scale?  Is there an uncropped photo available?
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 11:04:49 PM
What are the units on the scale?  Is there an uncropped photo available?

What are the units on the scale?

OMG!!.... Even an elementary school kid knows that the metric system is based on units of ten....  Get your head out and LOOK....

Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 06, 2019, 12:43:59 AM
Jack...Your desperation is hangin out a country mile....  The lands in the barrel create the grooves on the projectile ...Just as the treads on a tire create the track in the dirt....   Now go play marbles on the freeway....

Cakebread Original Post: "Referring to the pic on the right....How wide is the groove that is clearly visible on the copper jacket....(hint....There is a scale right there...."

Seems you have lost your train of thought. Must be because of how lame this whole thread is to begin with and what a lame explanation you just provided instead of explain your numbers and the proper names of what is being discussed.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 12:54:48 AM
Cakebread Original Post: "Referring to the pic on the right....How wide is the groove that is clearly visible on the copper jacket....(hint....There is a scale right there...."

Seems you have lost your train of thought. Must be because of how lame this whole thread is to begin with and what a lame explanation you just provided instead of explain your numbers and the proper names of what is being discussed.

If it's a lame thread....Why the hell did you feel compelled to show the world how stupid you are?   I clearly asked for the width of the groove in the copper jacket.

Even a elementary school kid can understand what's being asked.....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 06, 2019, 02:29:05 PM
If it's a lame thread....Why the hell did you feel compelled to show the world how stupid you are?   I clearly asked for the width of the groove in the copper jacket.

Even a elementary school kid can understand what's being asked.....
It is an incredibly lame thread. The premise is somehow you have managed to convince yourself you are smarter than you really are. You asked "Anybody" for the width but apparently you don't like the correct answer. The "land impression" not groove on the bullet fragment measures 1.8mm which is what Frazier stated it would measure. Not your 1.5mm or the width of the lands are really 2mm.

How about contain your lack of knowledge to this thread. This nonsense came from the Oswald Rifle Capability thread.

(Cakebread)"Take a look at the fragments....  The width of the groove on the copper jacket measures 1.5mm across.....The lands in the rifling of a Mannlicher Carcano barrel measure 2 mm across...  This bullet was NOT fired from a Mannlicher Carcano."

Unbelievably in your mind this pathetic nonsense is not wrong,  it is all part of the Walt Cakebread genius.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 03:35:16 PM
It is an incredibly lame thread. The premise is somehow you have managed to convince yourself you are smarter than you really are. You asked "Anybody" for the width but apparently you don't like the correct answer. The "land impression" not groove on the bullet fragment measures 1.8mm which is what Frazier stated it would measure. Not your 1.5mm or the width of the lands are really 2mm.

How about contain your lack of knowledge to this thread. This nonsense came from the Oswald Rifle Capability thread.

(Cakebread)"Take a look at the fragments....  The width of the groove on the copper jacket measures 1.5mm across.....The lands in the rifling of a Mannlicher Carcano barrel measure 2 mm across...  This bullet was NOT fired from a Mannlicher Carcano."

Unbelievably in your mind this pathetic nonsense is not wrong,  it is all part of the Walt Cakebread genius.

Did I ask anybody to refer to any testimony ...Or did I ask the reader to measure the width of the groove.....  Only Jack Nessan was too stupid to know what was being asked....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 06, 2019, 07:33:24 PM
Did I ask anybody to refer to any testimony ...Or did I ask the reader to measure the width of the groove.....  Only Jack Nessan was too stupid to know what was being asked....
My mistake, I assumed a thinking person would automatically conclude a carcano bullet is going to fired down a carcano barrel with carcano rifling. Guess what, that is what Frazier, Cunningham, and Killion independantly concluded and verified. Once again we have a group of people who do not know what a Walt Cakebread is and how seriously mentally messed up he is.

Do you need to be told I measured it and came up with approximately what Frazier did or can I assume you can think beyond your nose? Remembering  back at your past posts and realizing you don't seem to ever get it, your right I should have told you it is near 1.8mm, like Frazier.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 08:15:34 PM
My mistake, I assumed a thinking person would automatically conclude a carcano bullet is going to fired down a carcano barrel with carcano rifling. Guess what, that is what Frazier, Cunningham, and Killion independantly concluded and verified. Once again we have a group of people who do not know what a Walt Cakebread is and how seriously mentally messed up he is.

Do you need to be told I measured it and came up with approximately what Frazier did or can I assume you can think beyond your nose? Remembering  back at your past posts and realizing you don't seem to ever get it, your right I should have told you it is near 1.8mm, like Frazier.

You're a liar and a Stupid one at that....  You admit you made a mistake, when you said ......
"No, it is very specific.  The nomenclature does not change because you don't know what you are talking about. The "land impression" on the bullet fragment measures approximately(.07 inches) 1.8 mm.  The "groove impression" measures approximately(.13 inches) 3.3mm. Because you can't read a ruler doesn't mean Frazier could not. If you can read the "land impression" is 1.5mm it is only because you want to. Frazier made a Sulphur cast of CE 139's barrel he knew exactly the dimensions of the rifle's lands and grooves."

The rifling grooves do not leave a deep impression on the projectile makes light contact with the barrel when the projectile is fired.....because the diameter of the projectile is the same size as the barrel......ie; The rifle is designed to fire a projectile that is 6.5mm in diameter, and that's the inside diameter of the barrel. 

You clearly didn't know that the LANDS in the barrel create the GROOVE on the jacket of the projectile ......  And you have demonstrated that you're too stupid to use the scale in the photo.

Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 06, 2019, 08:37:11 PM
I believe the groove width on the copper jacket measures 1.5 mm across......

I bet you do.

BALLISTICS DISCOVERY BY CALIFORNIA RESEARCHER INDICATES "STRETCHER BULLET THEORY" MAY BE A LIE (BECAUSE WC EXHIBIT 399 COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FIRED FROM THE CE 139 MANNLICHER-CARCANO), AND THAT APPARENTLY A DIFFERENT "EVIDENCE" BULLET WAS SUBSTITUTED BY THE GOVERNMENT (http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Cakebread%20Walt/Item%2001.pdf)

Back to Walt's study of the Warren volumes:

Walt made a mental note of the four-groove/four-land barrel configuration of the alleged murder weapon. Subsequent research by Walt showed that the four-groove barrel is standard for all Mannlicher-Carcano rifles.

Imagine Walt's surprise, then, when in Volume xvii came upon a large , clear FBI photograph of CE 399, and to his practised hunter's eye he saw that pictured on page 49 WAS NOT A FOUR-GROOVE BULLET, BUT ONE WITH MORE THAN FOUR GROOVES, POSSIBLY FIVE OR SIX!....

....In the HSCA report, Volume vii, figure 6A, he came upon the House Committee's photograph of CE 399, apparently taken by the Metropolitan Police Department of Washington, D.C.

To his astonishment, in this photo the Magic Bullet had transformed itself from the six-(or five)-groove bullet of the Warren Commission into A FOUR-GROOVE BULLETTHAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE CE139 RIFLE AND THE TESTIMONY OF FRAZIER.

To Walt, this discovery was just as chilling as his first. It meant that the bullet originally pictured by the Warren Commission had disappeared, and that sometime between 1963 and 1978 THE GOVERNMENT CREATED A NEW BULLET TRACEABLE TO CE139, AND SUBSTITUTED IT AS THE "OFFICIAL" CE399!
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Jack Nessan on March 06, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
You're a liar and a Stupid one at that....  You admit you made a mistake, when you said ......
"No, it is very specific.  The nomenclature does not change because you don't know what you are talking about. The "land impression" on the bullet fragment measures approximately(.07 inches) 1.8 mm.  The "groove impression" measures approximately(.13 inches) 3.3mm. Because you can't read a ruler doesn't mean Frazier could not. If you can read the "land impression" is 1.5mm it is only because you want to. Frazier made a Sulphur cast of CE 139's barrel he knew exactly the dimensions of the rifle's lands and grooves."

The rifling grooves do not leave a deep impression on the projectile makes light contact with the barrel when the projectile is fired.....because the diameter of the projectile is the same size as the barrel......ie; The rifle is designed to fire a projectile that is 6.5mm in diameter, and that's the inside diameter of the barrel. 

You clearly didn't know that the LANDS in the barrel create the GROOVE on the jacket of the projectile ......  And you have demonstrated that you're too stupid to use the scale in the photo.
Let us see. On one hand is a certified firearms experts who testifies in court and he refers to it as a "groove impression", on the other hand a complete flake who knows absolutely nothing about a firearm who is randomly talking about grooves and oblivious to the fact the lands are one width and the grooves another.

Maybe look into what impression means. Frazier obviously felt it was important to properly refer to it. I think I will refer to it as a "groove impression" because that is what the expert refers to it as.

Mr. FRAZIER .....The width of the land impression is 7/100ths of an inch, that is 0.07 inch--whereas the width of the groove impression is 0.13 inch, or 13/100ths of an inch.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:23:13 PM
BALLISTICS DISCOVERY BY CALIFORNIA RESEARCHER

More recently seen in South Sioux City, Nebraska.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:26:44 PM
Let us see. On one hand is a certified firearms experts who testifies in court and he refers to it as a "groove impression", on the other hand a complete flake who knows absolutely nothing about a firearm who is randomly talking about grooves and oblivious to the fact the lands are one width and the grooves another.

But he "owns several Carcanos" and has a "practised hunter's eye"!
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
By the way, here's what caught Mervin's "practised hunter's eye".

(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0038a.jpg)
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 11:39:16 PM
By the way, here's what caught Mervin's "practised hunter's eye".

(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0038a.jpg)
The author said that I have a "practiced hunter's eye"... that was his observation.... and since he saw my carcanos he acknowledged that I own several....

Thank you for posting the photo of CE 399....

(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0038a.jpg)

Anybody can see that the bullet appears to have been fired from a rifle with a barrel with more than four grooves.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:45:17 PM
The author said that I have a "practiced hunter's eye"... that was his observation.... and since he saw my carcanos he acknowledged that I own several....

I guess he forgot to put that in the article. Unless it's on the same page where he said that Bledsoe identified a button down shirt.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
I bet you do.

BALLISTICS DISCOVERY BY CALIFORNIA RESEARCHER INDICATES "STRETCHER BULLET THEORY" MAY BE A LIE (BECAUSE WC EXHIBIT 399 COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FIRED FROM THE CE 139 MANNLICHER-CARCANO), AND THAT APPARENTLY A DIFFERENT "EVIDENCE" BULLET WAS SUBSTITUTED BY THE GOVERNMENT (http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Cakebread%20Walt/Item%2001.pdf)

Back to Walt's study of the Warren volumes:

Walt made a mental note of the four-groove/four-land barrel configuration of the alleged murder weapon. Subsequent research by Walt showed that the four-groove barrel is standard for all Mannlicher-Carcano rifles.

Imagine Walt's surprise, then, when in Volume xvii came upon a large , clear FBI photograph of CE 399, and to his practised hunter's eye he saw that pictured on page 49 WAS NOT A FOUR-GROOVE BULLET, BUT ONE WITH MORE THAN FOUR GROOVES, POSSIBLY FIVE OR SIX!....

....In the HSCA report, Volume vii, figure 6A, he came upon the House Committee's photograph of CE 399, apparently taken by the Metropolitan Police Department of Washington, D.C.

To his astonishment, in this photo the Magic Bullet had transformed itself from the six-(or five)-groove bullet of the Warren Commission into A FOUR-GROOVE BULLETTHAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE CE139 RIFLE AND THE TESTIMONY OF FRAZIER.

To Walt, this discovery was just as chilling as his first. It meant that the bullet originally pictured by the Warren Commission had disappeared, and that sometime between 1963 and 1978 THE GOVERNMENT CREATED A NEW BULLET TRACEABLE TO CE139, AND SUBSTITUTED IT AS THE "OFFICIAL" CE399!


Imagine Walt's surprise, then, when in Volume xvii came upon a large , clear FBI photograph of CE 399, and to his practised hunter's eye he saw that pictured on page 49 WAS NOT A FOUR-GROOVE BULLET, BUT ONE WITH MORE THAN FOUR GROOVES, POSSIBLY FIVE OR SIX!....

The author clearly did not fully understand what I told him.....I was particularly disgusted with this statement...." POSSIBLY FIVE OR SIX!"    I never ever told him the bullet appeared to have six grooves.... 

 I had measured the width of the land/ groove combination of the bullet in the photo ....and found it to be 4mm.   

4mm X 4 = 16mm    But the circumference of a 6.5 mm bullet is 20.4mm....  WHOA wait jist a doggone minute .....Sumpthin's wrong with my calculator.....

Oh now I get it....The bullet in the photo has FIVE grooves..... 5 grooves  X 4mm =20mm  ...... Yes the circumference of the bullet should be 20.4 mm  But I believe that we can dismiss the missing .4 mm  due to a bit of inaccuracy of taking the measurements from a photo......

After the article was published I wondered if the author had put that SIX grooves in there to discredit the entire presentation....Or was he simply that dumb?

(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0038a.jpg)

Would someone  please post a color photo of the CE 399 that is now in the archives....
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: David Von Pein on March 07, 2019, 09:42:58 PM
Would someone  please post a color photo of the CE 399 that is now in the archives....

Why on Earth Walter can't locate this easy-to-find Ferrell stuff that's been posted hundreds of times before is beyond me. But apparently he's incapable of locating it....

https://www.maryferrell.org/photos.html?set=NARA-CE399
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2019, 10:49:18 PM
Why on Earth Walter can't locate this easy-to-find Ferrell stuff that's been posted hundreds of times before is beyond me. But apparently he's incapable of locating it....

https://www.maryferrell.org/photos.html?set=NARA-CE399

You posted a LINK....I wanted a photo of CE 399 and the Copper jacket that you have on your WS......  On the same page. side by side, for easy comparison.

https://goldinauctions.com/_The_Magic_Bullet__Replica_Display_of_CE_399_Bulle-LOT27742.aspx
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 08, 2019, 02:28:20 PM
You posted a LINK....I wanted a photo of CE 399 and the Copper jacket that you have on your WS......  On the same page. side by side, for easy comparison.

https://goldinauctions.com/_The_Magic_Bullet__Replica_Display_of_CE_399_Bulle-LOT27742.aspx

Chief Curry had a "replica of CE 399".....   and it does look similar to CE 399..... Can anybody venture a guess about  how many attempts it took to create that replica by shooting two men ??   
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 08, 2019, 05:58:33 PM
Chief Curry had a "replica of CE 399".....   and it does look similar to CE 399..... Can anybody venture a guess about  how many attempts it took to create that replica by shooting two men ??

The article accompanying the pictures says that the rifle was only fired three times ( The rifling marks on the bullet do appear to have been made by a barrel that was in excellent condition,...... probably new..)    So it's obvious that the rifle was fired into a bullet trap and the bullet that looks very much like CE 399 was recovered from the bullet trap.    Hmmmmmm     And we're supposed to believe that CE 399 traveled through two men and hit a rib and shattered it, and then struck a dense wrist bone and shattered it but remained in virtually the same condition as the bullet that Curry had fired into a bullet trap.....   

If anybody actually believes the twins were not created under comparable situations....they should seek psychiatric help...... because both bullets appear to have been fired into a bullet trap.
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 09, 2019, 02:48:11 PM
The article accompanying the pictures says that the rifle was only fired three times ( The rifling marks on the bullet do appear to have been made by a barrel that was in excellent condition,...... probably new..)    So it's obvious that the rifle was fired into a bullet trap and the bullet that looks very much like CE 399 was recovered from the bullet trap.    Hmmmmmm     And we're supposed to believe that CE 399 traveled through two men and hit a rib and shattered it, and then struck a dense wrist bone and shattered it but remained in virtually the same condition as the bullet that Curry had fired into a bullet trap.....   

If anybody actually believes the twins were not created under comparable situations....they should seek psychiatric help...... because both bullets appear to have been fired into a bullet trap.

Mr Howard wrote:  I originally made 5 examples but only 3 were successful. In turn I sold one of the successful examples to Stanley J. Szerszen.?

Turns out Mr Howard was able to duplicate CE 399 three times with five cartridges....  Good Lord... How many men did he shoot?    Did he really shoot 10 men to create the conditions under which we are told CE 399 was created?   WHO believes this?    Is there a single LNer who will step up and defend CE 399 ??   

How about you Von P??   
Title: Re: Paging Von P..... Hello Von P....??
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 10, 2019, 04:25:37 PM
Chief Curry had a "replica of CE 399".....   and it does look similar to CE 399..... Can anybody venture a guess about  how many attempts it took to create that replica by shooting two men ??


How did Mr Howard successfully duplicate CE 399 three times with five cartridges when dozens of other students have tried diligently to duplicate the Magic Bullet by shooting into simulated flesh and bone, and not one has been able to duplicate CE 399....