JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on February 13, 2019, 09:56:38 PM

Title: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 13, 2019, 09:56:38 PM
  Radio calls made from and to [87] Ptm R C Nelson Nov 22 1963
  From 12:40 to 1:44 From the internet transcripts...
   http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm

 ***********************************************************
 12:40   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87 clear.
         Dispatcher    87 clear. 12:40.
 12:45   Dispatcher    87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.    
          78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.           
       **********************************************************
 Perhaps Tippit meant Kiest and Sunnyvale which becomes Bonnie View a mile further
 south at Loop 12 or perhaps he was elsewhere?

   **********************************************************    
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87's going north on Marsalis at     

         R.L. Thornton. [I35E]   
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   12:47   101 (Ptm. B.L. Bass)    87 [probably should read 101] I'm on south end Houston       
         Street viaduct.
 **********************************************************
  That is where some confusion lies and would require listening to the actual tape recording.
  The south end of the Houston St Viaduct at a gas station, is where Tippit was reported seen by
  those who knew him and at this particular time. So where was Ptm Bass really and
  where was Ptm Nelson really?

 *******************************************************        
       Dispatcher    10-4.
 12:52   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    87 out down here.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   
 ***********************************************************
    The Dallas Police are supposed to be looking for a gunman.
  This means that Ptm Nelson got out of his car for some reason.
   "Out down"- where? Simply isn't specified.
   Could he have gone to get a coffee and donut? It was about half an hour before
  he is heard from again.

  **********************************************************
  1:20   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    I'm in my car here at Elm and Houston.
  **************************************************************
  Who ordered Nelson to Elm and Houston? He was told to move into Central Oak Cliff.
   The official report defenders might claim that it was because the police chief orderd all
   available officers to Dealey plaza. Then why didn't Tippit go there too?

  ****************************************************************
    Do you want me over there?         
      Dispatcher    87, report to 4340 West Davis at the service station for information regarding
       suspect on this Signal 19 of the President.   
     87    4340.         
      Dispatcher    Code 3. 
      1:24   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. (Siren)         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    Was that 4340 West Davis?         
      Dispatcher    Yes.         
      87    10-4.         
      Dispatcher    Somebody pulled in there and bought some gas; driving a white Pontiac '61 or '62 station
        wagon with  the prefix P(ecos) E(llis). He had a rifle laying on the seat.         
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    10-4. 
         Dispatcher    Have a citizen following this car at this time, unknown direction.          
        *****************************************************************
   Ptm Nelson was sent to the Cockrell Hill part of Oak Cliff. Perhaps 2 miles
   WEST of the Texas Theater. Code 3 means engage siren and lights. Signal 19 means
   discharge of a firearm. Apparently, Nelson got there from Dealey Plaza? [supposedly]
   and received information on the incident in a remarkable 3 minutes!!

     ********************************************************************* 
   1:27   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    A white station wagon believed to be P (Paul) E     
        (Ellis) 3435, unknown make or model, late model, occupied by two
         white males, left this fellow's station going east on Davis and
         believed they had a shotgun or rifle laying in the back seat.       
     Dispatcher    Received, 87.         
      87    87 en route down there on Jefferson.         
      Dispatcher    87, when you get down there see if you can
            find that car down there at the scene.         
      87    10-4, Code 2. (Beeps)         
      Dispatcher    3.         
      87    10-4.     
 *****************************************************************
   Code 2 means regular urgent but he is told to go ahead and hit
     the lights and siren.
    For some reason, Nelson's pursuit of the reported vehicle appears abandoned.

  *********************************************************************
      1:32   111    They say he's running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.  (Other voices) 
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87, 10-4.
  1:34   1:34    Dispatcher    Return to service. 1:34.
         Dispatcher    87.
         87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.
         Dispatcher    P (Paul) E (Ellis) 3435, C.E. Storey, 5317 
          Goodman, 1961 Falcon (four door?).         
      87    He wasn't sure of the license number.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.          
  *******************************************************
  From 1:34-1:35 an amazing 144 calls were listed on channel one.
  Probably an error in transcript? Nelson calls in
  twice-no reply. At 1:35 channel 2 took over all calls. At 1:43 channel 1 returns 
  Could be an apparent error in the time stamp 

 *******************************************************
   1:43  Dispatcher    87.         
     87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
     Dispatcher    87, was that a Pontiac or Falcon?
       He didn't say what kind of car it'd be         
       It was a white car with a luggage rack on the top. 
     wasn't sure of the model; it was a big car though.      
     Dispatcher    10-4.
  1:44  87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. What was the last location           
       anybody had on that suspect out here in Oak Cliff?
        Dispatcher    Running north on Patton.
   **********************************************************************
  North on Patton was the complete opposite direction from the Texas Theater.
   *********************************************************************
        YouTube recordings  ....   
       [Incomplete]
   David Von Pein channel police audio tape link.....[incomplete]
   
    Transcript supplied by the police chief.....[no time stamps]--
     http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf           
*******************************************************************
       
Quote
JFK?s assassination had many witnesses, but one never spoke about the chaos 
       and confusion that followed the President?s killing; Until this year. In an exclusive
       interview with CBS Miami, retired Dallas police officer R.C. Nelson is talking about
       what he saw and heard after the JFK assassination for the very first time.
       "In a chilling account, Nelson says he was on the overpass across from
        the Texas Book Depository ? the building from which Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly
        fired his fatal shots ? when he heard gun fire."
       "Nelson didn?t know it at the time, but those shots were the ones that Lee Harvey Oswald
        allegedly fired to assassinate the President as his motorcade went down Dealy Plaza in Dallas."
        "The retired officer says he was at the scene within two minutes and asked a
        motorcycle patrolman what had happened. Nelson said the motorman told him,
        ?Somebody shot and killed Kennedy. He was up there (pointing to [the] book depository).
         I saw the rifle in the window when I looked up.?
        ?I saw Kennedy?s head blown off.? When Nelson called a superior asking how to proceed,
        he was to told to just stay in place to supervise the area."
        Shortly after JFK?s assassination, a second call came in informing officers of another shooting.
        This time the victim was Nelson?s partner, J.D. Tippit. The two were not paired together that day.   
        Nelson says he can?t imagine Tippit pulling Oswald over. He believes that things happened the
        other way around and Oswald flagged Tippit over.
        The fact that Tippit was shot in the temple, suggests to Nelson that he was looking away,
        and Oswald was the one who approached and shot him.
        We heard someone had gone into the Texas (movie) theater without paying,?
        Nelson recalls. ?It was about three blocks away and we converged on the Texas theater.?
        The movie theater was only two blocks away from where J.D. Tippit was shot by Oswald. <<<<<BUNK
         That is not where the JFK assassination and Nelson?s connection to it ended...
         Two days later, as the nation tried to come to terms with the death of the President, 
         Nelson was assigned to city hall?s basement main door entrance.
         As officers were going through the basement Nelson once again heard shots ring out as
         he stood 20-feet away from the spot in which Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.
         Nelson remembers seeing Ruby bent over, as police officers tried to subdue him and
         someone yelled, ?Get his gun!?
         ?I grabbed for his hands and didn?t find a gun,? Nelson said. ?But I managed to
          manhandle him into the basement jail house office and handcuffed him.?
          ___________________________________________________________________
         https://www.inquisitr.com/1037935/jfk-assassination-witness-speaks-out-for-first-time/

        R C Nelson..... Another really very busy guy back then.
         Another Mr Everywhere wherever he was needed.
        Maybe there were two of them?
           
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 13, 2019, 10:59:12 PM
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  Radio calls made from and to [87] Ptm R C Nelson Nov 22 1963
  From 12:40 to 1:44 From the internet transcripts...
   http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm

 ***********************************************************
 12:40   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87 clear.
         Dispatcher    87 clear. 12:40.
 12:45   Dispatcher    87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.    
          78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.           
       **********************************************************
 Perhaps Tippit meant Kiest and Sunnyvale which becomes Bonnie View a mile further
 south at Loop 12 or perhaps he was elsewhere?

   **********************************************************    
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87's going north on Marsalis at     

         R.L. Thornton. [I35E]   
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   12:47   101 (Ptm. B.L. Bass)    87 [probably should read 101] I'm on south end Houston       
         Street viaduct.
 **********************************************************
  That is where some confusion lies and would require listening to the actual tape recording.
  The south end of the Houston St Viaduct at a gas station, is where Tippit was reported seen by
  those who knew him and at this particular time. So where was Ptm Bass really and
  where was Ptm Nelson really?

 *******************************************************        
       Dispatcher    10-4.
 12:52   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    87 out down here.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   
 ***********************************************************
    The Dallas Police are supposed to be looking for a gunman.
  This means that Ptm Nelson got out of his car for some reason.
   "Out down"- where? Simply isn't specified.
   Could he have gone to get a coffee and donut? It was about half an hour before
  he is heard from again.

  **********************************************************
  1:20   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    I'm in my car here at Elm and Houston.
  **************************************************************
  Who ordered Nelson to Elm and Houston? He was told to move into Central Oak Cliff.
   The official report defenders might claim that it was because the police chief orderd all
   available officers to Dealey plaza. Then why didn't Tippit go there too?

  ****************************************************************
    Do you want me over there?         
      Dispatcher    87, report to 4340 West Davis at the service station for information regarding
       suspect on this Signal 19 of the President.   
     87    4340.         
      Dispatcher    Code 3. 
      1:24   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. (Siren)         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    Was that 4340 West Davis?         
      Dispatcher    Yes.         
      87    10-4.         
      Dispatcher    Somebody pulled in there and bought some gas; driving a white Pontiac '61 or '62 station
        wagon with  the prefix P(ecos) E(llis). He had a rifle laying on the seat.         
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    10-4. 
         Dispatcher    Have a citizen following this car at this time, unknown direction.          
        *****************************************************************
   Ptm Nelson was sent to the Cockrell Hill part of Oak Cliff. Perhaps 2 miles
   WEST of the Texas Theater. Code 3 means engage siren and lights. Signal 19 means
   discharge of a firearm. Apparently, Nelson got there from Dealey Plaza? [supposedly]
   and received information on the incident in a remarkable 3 minutes!!

     ********************************************************************* 
   1:27   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    A white station wagon believed to be P (Paul) E     
        (Ellis) 3435, unknown make or model, late model, occupied by two
         white males, left this fellow's station going east on Davis and
         believed they had a shotgun or rifle laying in the back seat.       
     Dispatcher    Received, 87.         
      87    87 en route down there on Jefferson.         
      Dispatcher    87, when you get down there see if you can
            find that car down there at the scene.         
      87    10-4, Code 2. (Beeps)         
      Dispatcher    3.         
      87    10-4.     
 *****************************************************************
   Code 2 means regular urgent but he is told to go ahead and hit
     the lights and siren.
    For some reason, Nelson's pursuit of the reported vehicle appears abandoned.

  *********************************************************************
      1:32   111    They say he's running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.  (Other voices) 
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87, 10-4.
  1:34   1:34    Dispatcher    Return to service. 1:34.
         Dispatcher    87.
         87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.
         Dispatcher    P (Paul) E (Ellis) 3435, C.E. Storey, 5317 
          Goodman, 1961 Falcon (four door?).         
      87    He wasn't sure of the license number.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.          
  *******************************************************
  From 1:34-1:35 an amazing 144 calls were listed on channel one.
  Probably an error in transcript? Nelson calls in
  twice-no reply. At 1:35 channel 2 took over all calls. At 1:43 channel 1 returns 
  Could be an apparent error in the time stamp 

 *******************************************************
   1:43  Dispatcher    87.         
     87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
     Dispatcher    87, was that a Pontiac or Falcon?
       He didn't say what kind of car it'd be         
       It was a white car with a luggage rack on the top. 
     wasn't sure of the model; it was a big car though.      
     Dispatcher    10-4.
  1:44  87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. What was the last location           
       anybody had on that suspect out here in Oak Cliff?
        Dispatcher    Running north on Patton.
   **********************************************************************
  North on Patton was the complete opposite direction from the Texas Theater.
   *********************************************************************
        YouTube recordings  ....   
       [Incomplete]
   David Von Pein channel police audio tape link.....[incomplete]
   
    Transcript supplied by the police chief.....[no time stamps]--
     http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf           
*******************************************************************
                 ___________________________________________________________________
         https://www.inquisitr.com/1037935/jfk-assassination-witness-speaks-out-for-first-time/

        R C Nelson..... Another really very busy guy back then.
         Another Mr Everywhere wherever he was needed.
        Maybe there were two of them?
           

There's an amazing similarity between Mc Donald's latter day tale and Nelson's latter day tale....They both were a nothing but bare faced liars....Making up tales to insert themselves into the action.....
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 14, 2019, 12:16:02 AM
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There's an amazing similarity between Mc Donald's latter day tale and Nelson's latter day tale....They both were a nothing but bare faced liars....Making up tales to insert themselves into the action.....
Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
 
Quote
Dispatcher    78.         
     78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    78.         
     Dispatcher    You are in the Oak Cliff area, are you not?         
     78    Lancaster and Eighth. .......[Just a couple of blocks from where he was shot]        
     Dispatcher    You will be at large for any emergency that comes in.          
     78    10-4.
Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 14, 2019, 01:05:44 AM
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Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
  Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Helen Markham said that Tippit was shot at 1:06....  So this call would have been at about 12:50....
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 14, 2019, 01:34:48 AM
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Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
  Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Tippit and Nelson were both told to go to Oak Cliff by Jackson. From memory Nelson was already out of his assigned area and in south Oak Cliff at the time of that transmission. Nelson simply went to Dealy Plaza.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 14, 2019, 07:42:48 AM
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Tippit and Nelson were both told to go to Oak Cliff by Jackson. From memory Nelson was already out of his assigned area and in south Oak Cliff at the time of that transmission. Nelson simply went to Dealy Plaza.
From memory? Whose memory? Anyway, Nelson was not told to go to Dealey Plaza.
At 12:45 Nelson said he was at Marsalis and Thornton Freeway. That is near the Dallas Zoo. If he was out that way, he could not possibly have heard the shots downtown that he claimed he did in that interview.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 14, 2019, 08:40:51 AM
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From memory? Whose memory? Anyway, Nelson was not told to go to Dealey Plaza.
At 12:45 Nelson said he was at Marsalis and Thornton Freeway. That is near the Dallas Zoo. If he was out that way, he could not possibly have heard the shots downtown that he claimed he did in that interview.

From my memory when I looked into this years ago. There was a substantial thread on this on the old forum before the crash and all was lost.

Dispatcher   87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.       
    78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)   I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.       
    87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)   87's going north on Marsalis at R.L. Thornton.

The instruction from Murray Jackson seems clear to Tippit and Nelson. Both appear acknowledge Jackson with their position. Nelson simply went to Dealey Plaza. Jackson?s excuse that they were bleeding Oak Ciiff disproportionally at that time was bogus. Menzel (91) had claimed he was out to lunch just before the shots rang out. It was his patrol district.....one guy was deemed sufficient before the shots and yet Jackson felt suddenly two officers were needed. A bit strange.

Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 14, 2019, 12:30:34 PM
From Marsalis/RL Thornton (12.45) to South end of Houston St viaduct (12.49) is 7.9 miles (google maps).

I have been generous with the times and is ikely a minute less.....

In any event.....Nelson does it in at least 120mph.....maybe 160mph! Not originally in his assigned district too (from my fading memory).
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 14, 2019, 01:50:50 PM
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From my memory when I looked into this years ago. There was a substantial thread on this on the old forum before the crash and all was lost.

Dispatcher   87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.       
    78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)   I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.       
    87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)   87's going north on Marsalis at R.L. Thornton.

The instruction from Murray Jackson seems clear to Tippit and Nelson. Both appear acknowledge Jackson with their position. Nelson simply went to Dealey Plaza. Jackson?s excuse that they were bleeding Oak Ciiff disproportionally at that time was bogus. Menzel (91) had claimed he was out to lunch just before the shots rang out. It was his patrol district.....one guy was deemed sufficient before the shots and yet Jackson felt suddenly two officers were needed. A bit strange.


"Armed with is thought to be a 30-30 rifle".....   

A 30-30 is a Lever action rifle designed by Winchester.... There's no way a full wooden stock, mannlicher carcano, could be mistaken for a 30-30 Winchester.

Sorry to jump off topic... but since the police dispatcher describes the suspect as someone other than Lee Oswald and the weapon that is NOT a carcano, on this tape I wanted to call attention to this fact. 
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 14, 2019, 01:55:40 PM
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From Marsalis/RL Thornton (12.45) to South end of Houston St viaduct (12.49) is 7.9 miles (google maps).
I have been generous with the times and is likely a minute less.....
In any event.....Nelson does it in at least 120mph.....maybe 160mph! Not originally in his assigned district too (from my fading memory).
I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 14, 2019, 02:30:19 PM
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I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 

My error on the distance....in any event Nelson was out of assigned district at the time and although acknowledging Jackson's directive by calling his location, ignored it by continuing onto the TSBD.

Jackson?s reason for calling them into Oak Cliff was bogus.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 14, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
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I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 

Jerry, perhaps you're looking at his from the wrong perspective.....Nelson said that he heard the shots, and talked to a cop who had witnessed the shooting....

Is it possible that he wasn't in Oakcliff at Thornton at Marsalis....  Could he have been in Dealey??
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 14, 2019, 08:36:06 PM
From the lead post------ Nelson's interview....
         
Quote
Nelson remembers seeing Ruby bent over, as police officers tried to subdue him and
         someone yelled, ?Get his gun!?
         ?I grabbed for his hands and didn?t find a gun,? Nelson said. ?But I managed to
          manhandle him into the basement jail house office and handcuffed him.?

Awesome! However, I fail to see Nelson's name on the arrest form. I would like to see his picture at the Oswald shooting.
Think we can find one?

PS  I made an error in linking Ruby's arrest report. Here is all I can find so far....
 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/21/2113-001.gif
Jack Leaville, LC Graves, and Blackie Harrison are Jack Ruby's arresting officers of record.

Quote
Is it possible that he wasn't in Oakcliff at Thornton at Marsalis?
Then he lied about it. A liar anyway you slice it. R C Nelson, W R Westbrook and friends...all peas in a pod that day.
Of course I can't prove any involvement with the Tippit crime...but I am suspicious.  [/size]
   
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 14, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
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  although acknowledging Jackson's directive by calling his location, ignored it by continuing onto the TSBD. Jackson?s reason for calling them into Oak Cliff was bogus.
Then he disobeyed a directive and would have been subject to discipline. How would we know that he did this...because he said so? How do we know Jackson's reason?
 
 
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 14, 2019, 09:42:50 PM
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Then he disobeyed a directive and would have been subject to discipline. How would we know that he did this...because he said so? How do we know Jackson's reason?
 

I believe Jackson?s call was inserted after the event to explain away Tippit's movement out of district.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 15, 2019, 10:21:23 AM
I found some of my old stuff on this.......starts with Michael Griffith and Duke Lane

From Michael Griffith's review of "with Malice"

Full article here http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/the_critics/griffith/With_Malice.html "Why Tippit Was in Central Oak Cliff and Not in His Assigned Area When He Allegedly "Stopped" Oswald     

There is a severe problem with Myers' explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff. Tippit's assigned area was miles from central Oak Cliff. Myers quotes dispatcher Murray Jackson's story that he assigned Tippit to central Oak Cliff because "we were draining the Oak Cliff area" and because he supposedly realized there wouldn't be any policeman there if anything happened there (pp. 43-44). But, this won't work: There was already a patrol car assigned there.     Tippit was gunned down in District 91. Officer Mentzel was already assigned there. John Wassell says the police tape for Channel 1 contains a transmission at about 12:33 in which Mentzel asks for permission to take a break. Wassell says Mentzel was on a lunch break from about 12:33 to 1:07. The dispatcher made no effort to contact Mentzel during this period. Wassell further says the dispatcher acknowledged without comment a check-in transmission from Mentzel at 1:07.     

One could argue that technically District 91 was "uncovered" during this time. But in the aftermath of the assassination Districts 88, 89, and 98 also appear to have been "uncovered." Also, many patrol cars appear to have been covering two districts. So why would central Oak Cliff have been singled out for such special attention? Moreover, it should be kept in mind that just moments before the belatedly discovered 12:45 instruction for Officers Tippit and Nelson to move to central Oak Cliff, the dispatcher had radioed "all squads" to proceed to Dealey Plaza: Attention all squads, report to downtown area code 3 to Elm and Houston, with caution. (CE 705, p. 8, 17 H 397) In light of the these facts, it is very hard to understand why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why would TWO out-of-area patrol cars have been sent to central Oak Cliff when all squads had just been ordered to go to Dealey Plaza (i.e., Elm and Houston), and when there was already a patrol car assigned to that area? Is it sheer coincidence that Oswald "just happened" to live in central Oak Cliff?     

If nothing else, dispatcher Jackson would have known that Mentzel would be back in his patrol car soon. There was no need to send two additional patrol cars to central Oak Cliff.     Myers fails to explain why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why the need for THREE patrol cars in the one area where, by cosmic coincidence, Oswald "just happened" to live, especially given the fact that there had been no disturbance of the peace in that area whatsoever, and that during this same time officers from the outermost areas were being sent to the Book Depository?     Disturbingly, nowhere in his section on why Tippit was in central Oak Cliff does Myers mention that Officer Mentzel was already in District 91. Not one solitary word. Why not? Because that would cast doubt on his explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff?     Myers discusses a number of things that policemen and others said were broadcast over the police radio but which are not found on the existing police tapes. Interesting. This raises the possibility that the tapes have been altered or faked. Critics have long suspected that the 12:45 order sending Tippit and Nelson to central Oak Cliff was dubbed onto the tape after the fact. No such order appeared in the first Dallas police transcript of the police dispatch tapes, even though that transcript was prepared with the instruction to note all transmissions that related to the deaths of Tippit and Kennedy.     Former HSCA deputy chief counsel Gary Cornwell points out that the police tapes in question might be copies (REAL ANSWERS, p. 113). So does Carl Oglesby (THE JFK ASSASSINATION: THE FACTS AND THE THEORIES, p. 251). Says Oglesby, . . . there are indications that other police dictabelts were tampered with (in connection with Patrolman J. D. Tippit) and the NAS panel did not look into these. Third, the chain of custody of this particular piece of evidence, this particular dictabelt, leaves its authenticity open to challenge. One of the committee's scientific experts said outright, though not for attribution, that the discovery of the apparently simultaneous voice transmission from one minute after the transmission means that this dictabelt could not be the original. (THE JFK ASSASSINATION, p. 251)" So it appears that at 12.33 Mentzel in the turmiol that is happening in downtown Dallas.....just has to grab a burger and some donuts and returns half an hour later. Evoking common sense and logic 101.

From Duke Lane....... "Another coincidence is that Mentzel and Tippit were not the only patrol officers in the district at that time, compounding the question as to why Tippit needed to be assigned there. In point of fact, another officer had radioed in that he was "clear [of the car] for five [minutes]" on "East Jefferson" - which is only in Oak Cliff - less than one minute before Tippit was first contacted and ordered into the very same district (along with RC Nelson, who disregarded his orders and broadcast the fact - unchallenged - even as he was doing so). That officer was at least 10 miles from his assigned patrol area (if he was, in fact, the officer assigned to that number). Mentzel, (co)incidentally, finished his lunch and went back on patrol immediately before Tippit's shooting, and was then ordered to investigate an accident on West Davis, which he failed to find. So to summarize:

 ?WD Mentzel, assigned to districts 93 and 94, took lunch just about the time that JFK's motorcade was going through downtown Dallas; he was the only patrol officer to go on lunch at this critical time (this based on the assumption of a 30- to 45-minute lunch break that he completed at about 1:00, the time of his next broadcast, and his 12:25 broadcast that he was "clear" following having been "on traffic" and his next transmission just before 1:07). It is likewise presumed that he went to lunch prior to 12:30 since he later stated that he did not hear about the downtown shooting until he was finishing lunch, thus did not hear it on the radio;

?At 12:28, Unit 56 (WP Parker, in far SE Dallas, by the Garland and Mesquite town lines) radios in about "traffic" involving a '56 Chevy. Dispatch attempts to respond shortly thereafter, but does not get an answer, prompting the question from dispatch: "Anyone know where 56 is?" ?At 12:44, Unit 56 (Parker?) reports that he's "clear for five," and dispatch asks his location. He responds that he's at "East Jefferson" (which is only in Oak Cliff) in patrol district 94 (Mentzel's), 10 miles from his own patrol district;

?At 12:45 - just seven broadcasts from dispatch later - the dispatcher radios Tippit, who reports being at Kiest and Bonnieview, to "move into central Oak Cliff" because - according to the dispatcher's later comments - "resources were being drained from Oak Cliff" ?At 12:54, Tippit is again contacted and reports being at "Lancaster and Eighth," which coincidentally can be reached at normal speed in about eight-and-a-half minutes driving up Bonnieview (which becomes 8th) from Kiest. ?Meanwhile, Harry Olsen is out on the sidewalk in front of an "estate" he's guarding on 8th "a couple of blocks from Stemmons" (Lancaster is two blocks off of the highway) and "receives a phone call" from a friend of an "elderly aunt" of a motorcycle cop assigned to the motorcade (which aunt years later becomes a deceased man whose identity is unknown); ?Sometime between 1:00 and 1:04, dispatch asks Tippit (who is supposed to be patrolling "at large") for his location. Tippit does not respond.

?At 1:04, Mentzel finishes lunch and radios being "clear" following his lunch; ?At 1:11, Mentzel responds to a "Signal 7" (accident) at 817 W Davis (point "B" on the map), about 10 blocks (1.2 miles) from 10th & Patton (point "C"). Unit 222, VR Nolan, also responds from his location at Sylvan & Colorado (point "A") less than a mile away; ?At 1:16, Tippit's shooting is reported by TF Bowley on Channel 1. Tippit has been dead for several minutes at this time.

?Unit 56 (Parker?) does not broadcast again at any time through 2:13. Later reports indicate that the officer(s) assigned to District 56 remained in that district setting up roadblocks following Kennedy's assassination. So some reasonable questions would seem to be: ?Why was WD Mentzel the only officer at lunch while Kennedy's motorcade was travelling through Dallas? ?Why was #56 in Oak Cliff? And where did he go afterward? ?After not hearing from #56 for 16 minutes and then asking his location, why would a dispatcher not realize that he was in Oak Cliff and far from his assigned area?

?Why after hearing that #56 was in Oak Cliff would a dispatcher "realize" that resources were being "drained" from that area and assign two other officers, both from other districts farther south, into it?

?Why was Oak Cliff the only patrol district throughout the city that was assigned "additional" coverage when most other districts' officers responded to the "Signal 19" (shooting) call to "all units" to "report downtown?"

?Why did RC Nelson disregard his order to move into central Oak Cliff, and why did dispatch not say anything when Nelson told them that he was crossing the viaduct into downtown (away from Oak Cliff) and later that he was "out down here" at TSBD in blatant disregard of his orders? ?Why was dispatch concerned with Tippit's location when he was only supposed to be patrolling "at large" around central Oak Cliff? The questions lead to more, including whether the killer was aware of Tippit's being in Oak Cliff because the killer himself was a cop (or was brought there by a cop) who was listening to his own police radio, and thus could be assured that no other police cruisers would come along? Was Tippit in fact having a dalliance with someone who lived three houses from where Scoggins - who "just saw him every day" - was having lunch, and two houses away from the Davis sisters-in-law, one of whom said that he'd been shot "in front of the hedgerow between the house next door and the one he lives in," and if so, were others aware of it (as former officer Tom Tilson has claimed)? Was Tippit ordered into Oak Cliff because it was assumed that, given the chance to be "at large," he would attempt to visit his paramour? Was the killer "killing time" walking around the area waiting for Tippit to finally show up, thus explaining both why neither Scoggins nor Markham noticed him cross Patton and why he was apparently seen by Jimmy Burke (and Markham's son) walking west from Denver Street? Was Tippit in the act of pulling over in front of his paramour's house when he saw someone he recognized and acted as if he was pulling over not to visit his girlfriend, but to greet - "real friendly like" - said unexpected acquaintence? Who was the woman standing on the porch of her home that Frank Wright said had exclaimed "oh, they've shot him!" before going back inside ... perhaps said presumed paramour who may have reconciled with her estranged husband later that very same day? Was Tippit's shooting merely a personal grudge that was carried out serendipitously, the act of a desperate assassin afraid of apprehension, or perhaps a deliberate - and quite successful - attempt to divert police attention away from Dealey Plaza as "one of their own" was shot in the line of duty? Nothing, no other crime of any magnitude, has the emotional impact of a cop-killing and will evoke a massive response by other officers to the exclusion of any other duty; it would have been the most perfect diversion possible. If that's so, who planned it and ordered that Tippit be sent to his death? Is it plausible that it was serendipity that a cop - Tippit - showed up where a shooter was in the simple hope that one could be shot and draw a massive response of cops to the one area of town where a missing TSBD employee happened to live? Or did Oswald do it?"


Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 15, 2019, 10:32:08 AM
The work I did on Jackson's call does not align with his reasoning provided for the call at 12.45. Most will be aware of the controversial instruction of dispatcher Murray Jackson to Tippit and Nelson to move from their assigned patrol districts to Oak Cliff around 12.45. This instruction was absent from the original police transcripts prepared for the WC (Sawyer Exhibits A&B) that were supposed to contain all relevant communications relating to the assassination and Tippit. After some months the call appeared in subsequent transcripts. This call allayed concerns of the WC about why Tippit would be so far outside his assigned district when shot.  In order to get a clearer picture of whether Oak Cliff was indeed being drained of police presence following the call for all units to proceed down town I used the following documents. CE2645 -an FBI report dated June 1964 that outlined each patrol assignment for that day and what their response was. This report was prepared to determine if any patrol car could have been responsible for the sighting of a car at 1026 North Beckley around 1pm as claimed by Mrs Roberts. Interestingly the one officer excluded from this summary is Tippit!  Putnam Exhibit 1 is a map of the patrol districts.  The transcripts that appear at John McAdams site http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm  From these I prepared the following map.

(http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/col_crow/jackson.jpg)

Those units who were reported to attend downtown in response to the call are indicated in red and are positioned in the district allocated prior to the shooting. Cars containing 2 officers are indicated by circles and those with one are squares. There were some cars instructed to stay in their district and some of them were instructed to set up road blocks. All roadblocks were to the North and north-east of the city. Officers instructed to stay in their areas are indicated in blue. There are some officers that require attention. Parker, Nelson, Menzel and Tippit.  Officer Parker (56)  Parker was assigned districts 56 and 58. After making a call at 12.28 Parker disappears for a period "anyone know where 56 is? However the transcripts indicate he radioed in his position to dispatch around 12.44 that he was on East Jefferson. This is within the Oak Cliff district and it appears he has not responded to the downtown call. In CE2645 it is stated he remained in his allocated district. This is clearly wrong and Jackson knows he is in Oak Cliff. His position at this time is indicated on the map. Parker does not broadcast again until 2.13! CE2645 claims he remained in his district about 10 miles away the whole time.  Officer Nelson (87) It appears that Nelson probably responded to the downtown call as he is well north of his assigned district when he calls his position to Jackson at 12.45. He was at RL Thornton and Marsalis, many miles North of district 87. He is closer to Oak Cliff at this time than Tippit. Apparently he ignores this call from Jackson and continues to the TSBD. In CE2645 it simply states he proceeded downtown as instructed. No mention of the Jackson instruction to patrol Oak Cliff.  Officer Walker   He is instructed to remain in districts 85 and 86 south of Oak Cliff.  Officer Menzel (91) Menzel assigned district 91 and 92, reports clear at 12.28. It appears he heads for lunch at a diner at 430 West Jefferson. It would seem strange he hears nothing on the radio about the shooting on the radio 2minutes later. He seems to be the only officer who takes a lunch break at this time. He does not report back until after one and in CE 2645 it states he repeatedly tried to call by phone but couldn't get through. Obviously no news of the shooting had reached him in nearly 40 minutes. Believable? No attempt by dispatch to contact him in this time to help patrol Oak Cliff. Strange, given Jackson's concern about draining the area of resources.  Officer Tippit (78) It might appear that he too was responding to the downtown call but certainly at a slower pace than Nelson. He reports he is at Keinst and Bonnie View at 12.45 and his position on the map reflects this. However we know that there are 5 witnesses that put him at the Gloco station around this time.  So does it appear that Jackson's justification for ordering Tippit and Neslon to Oak Cliff is logical from the evidence? It certainly appears to me  that there are large areas of Dallas devoid of police. In fact apart from those downtown at the TSBD, Oak Cliff is blessed with police. An update to the original post having trawled through the transcripts and listened to the calls. Comments in chronological order.

1. There is a call of 78 (Tippit) at 12.29 one minute before the shots. it is not clear if this it Tippit or Dispatch.

 2. At 12.30 91(Menzel) calls clear twice. The second time is just 5 seconds before sirens are clearly heard on the radio. Menzel does not get confirmation of clear from dispatch? Apparently he goes to lunch.

 3.At 12.36 93 is called from dispatch and reports at 12.36 at Sylvan and Fort Worth? This appears to be way outside the assigned district. Assists an ambulance by blocking a road. 

4. Who is 97 that called in at 12.41? Reports in at Westmoreland and Fort Worth less about 5 minutes from 1026 North Beckley. Dispatch seems suprised 97 is in service.

5. The 12.41 call for squads in down town area to code 3 elm and Houston. Note the call is for local units only.

6. Unit 43 already there at the jail.  Unit 233 is already at Elm and Houston.  Unit 61 is close by.

Then 77 responds from the district west of Tippit. He does not get confirmed by dispatch for this. 

Then Unit 63, I have no idea who that is but district 63 is close to the scene.  Then dispatch calls 76 in.  Then 97, again no idea who 97 is but district 97 is west of Oak Cliff, is called by dispatch.  Then 60, 80, and 100 are called by dispatch to attend (Sgts. Putnam, Davis and Jennings). 

113 is enroute 113 is downtown close already. I could not find a listing for 113. Is it car 113 (Woods) in district 68 or Osburn as indicated on McAdams site. The position called, Gaston and Haskell is North of Fort worth? Strange.

66 calls enroute, again no idea who 66 is.

At 12.42 81 Calls he is at Corinth and 8th this is in northeastern oak cliff 56 reports East Jefferson again in Oak Cliff 12.45 suspect description is broadcast and 233 broadcasts the suspect is in the TSBD

81 has moved north on industrial moving closer to the TSBD. This call triggers 78 and 87 immediately.

There is almost no gap between the 10-4 call from the previous call and the instruction to Tippit and Nelson to move. Why? Surely no drain of Oak Cliff has occurred. There is no indication that dispatch even knows that Menzel is at lunch. Also. there is no 10-4 call from Tippit or Nelson to this instruction, merely a call of current postion. No 78 for Tippit is audible.

79 (Anglin) calls a position of 1400 Corinth this is after - so dispatch doesn't know he left his Oak Cliff district until now. Then 93 calls asks where to go dispatch says TSBD he is also originally assigned to Oak Cliff 12.46 77 assigned to Oak Cliff asks where to report and is told the TSBD

12.48 81 arrives at the TSBD and calls out to dispatch 12.52 79 (Anglin) calls he will be out at underpass

Then 87 (Nelson) calls out down here (TSBD).

THis is when it would be apparent Oak Cliff is possibly needing backup. Could he have made a call at this point for Tippit to move there and it has been moved up? Finally, Jackson's strange 12.55 call to confirm Tippit is in Oak Cliff and at to be at large for any emergency. It seemed to me the "78" on this recording sounds different to Jackson's previous 78. No so much pronounced Southern twang. When analyzed in sequence I find no evidence that a call should be made at 12.45. Possibly 10 minutes later. Initially only downtown squads were asked and reported to the scene. It was not until later that Units such as 81 responded or asked if they should attend.  Who is car 97? Even dispatch is suprised by that call.

Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 15, 2019, 11:19:36 AM
It is claimed that around the time the shots were ringing out in DP, Officer Mentzel, who was assigned the Oak Cilff patrol decided to go to lunch. Apparently dining at a cafe at 430 W. Jefferson. He claims not to have been aware of the President's shooting until 1.07pm when he returned to his car. There are a few individuals whose actions are strange at about the time JFK passed through DP and in the half hour or so after. Oswald (and a few other TSBD employees), Tippit and Mentzel is another. Even if we allow for the fact that he most likely requested a lunch break before the shots, (can anyone imagine asking for a lunch break over the radio just after this event!!!). He is supposed to have gone to a cafe........at 430 W Jefferson. Until now I had no idea how close this is to the other key locations involving Oswald's escape. Remember Tippit visited the Top Ten Record store sometime shortly before 1pm. This is only a block from Mentzel's Cafe!!.

Another point.....does it make sense to anyone that an officer would be in a cafe for nearly 40 minutes  and be totally unaware of the assassination? Pure BS in my view. Scogging went to a club and knew all about the shooting before Oswald shot Tippit. Why would an officer on lunch, in a cafe, when hearing of the shooting not report in immediately? Of course he would. Unless he was waiting for someone. In my view Mentzel and Tippit's actions are highly suspicious. Just using common sense and all.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Colin Crow on February 15, 2019, 11:22:24 AM
Colin Crow: I came across this from a poster "Raymond"on the AAJU forum relating to Tippit's presence in Oak Cliff.....  From "Reasonable Doubt" by Henry Hurt:     "The Warren Commission continued to struggle with the problem throughout the spring. It heard testimony from three supervisors from the  Dallas Police Dept. who tried to explain why Tippit was in the wrong place. The reasons were purely speculative, vaguely suggesting the demonstrably absurd possibility that Tippit was heading for Dealey Plaza four miles away to be of assistance there. During this testimony, there never was any reference to the possibility that Tippit might have been ordered to central Oak Cliff by the radio dispatcher. And, of course, the three supervisors were quite aware of the intense effort being made to find an answer to the riddle.   "The mystery remained unsolved until finally, in the spring, the WC requested and received a verbatim transcript - not one edited to include only transmissions related to Kennedy and Tippit. The Commission hoped that such a transcript might yield the elusive answer.    " It must have been a stunning revelation for the commission to discover that the new transcripts contained, at least, the badly needed answer to the puzzle. According to the transcript - and supported by the actual tape-there was an order given to Tippit at 12:45 p.m., an inexplicable instruction believed to be unique in the  Dallas Police Dept., it also had not been in the first transcript. Moreover, none of the police supervisors who testified earlier indicated that they knew anything about it. " (Hurt, p.160)    The first transcript submitted to the WC was SAWYER EXHIBIT A. There is no recognizable mention of Tippit or an order to "move into the Oak Cliff area."    The second transcript submitted , the 12:45 order directing him  Oak Cliff was CE 705. It simply says: " 87-78  move into Central Oak Cliff." There is no response by either officer." Do we have a dyslexic dispatcher here? Evidence suggests that dyslexia results from differences in how the brain processes written and/or spoken  language.    The strange thing about the order is that Officer R.C. Nelson, No 87, is also instructed to move into Central Oak Cliff along with Tippit. Why  would these two policemen be singled out to patrol a district that was already being patrolled by Officer Wm. D. Mentzel.    Also strange about the dispatch; neither officer responded to the dispatcher that they heard the order.  The next time Nelson is heard from is at 12:52 when he signaled the dispatcher and informed him that he is " Out down here." At 1:22 Nelson again reports that he is at Elm and Houston, the site of the assassination.    In 1984, Henry Hurt interviewed R.C. Nelson in a parking lot in Corsicana, Texas, where Nelson was then in private business. Nelson told the author that he had waited a long time to tell his story for the public record, but not without payment.    When Hurt asked Nelson: "Did you hear the dispatcher's order telling you to go there ?" Nelson replied, "I'm not sure what you mean. I had rather not talk about that." He then told Hurt that he considered that to be part of the story he was willing to negotiate. Hurt never did get an answer. He was not willing to pay Nelson. ( HURT, pp.  161-62-63)    Sgt. Calvin Owens, J.D.'s supervisor for ten years was no help in explaining the officer's movements. Owens , who was in his car at 12:45, when the order was allegedly given, did not know that Tippit had been moved. He was surprised to learn that J.D.was in District 91 and went there when the officer was shot. At 1:33 Owens contacted the dispatcher and asked him :" Do you know what kind of a call he was on?" The dispatcher answered "What kind of what?" Owens asked, "Was he on a call or anything?"  The dispatcher answered, "NO."   The only reasonable answer to the tape discrepancies is that the tapes were altered to place Tippit in the district where he died without admitting his reason for being there.
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 15, 2019, 05:53:56 PM
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The work I did on Jackson's call does not align with his reasoning provided for the call at 12.45. Most will be aware of the controversial instruction of dispatcher Murray Jackson to Tippit and Nelson to move from their assigned patrol districts to Oak Cliff around 12.45. This instruction was absent from the original police transcripts prepared for the WC (Sawyer Exhibits A&B) that were supposed to contain all relevant communications relating to the assassination and Tippit. After some months the call appeared in subsequent transcripts. This call allayed concerns of the WC about why Tippit would be so far outside his assigned district when shot.  In order to get a clearer picture of whether Oak Cliff was indeed being drained of police presence following the call for all units to proceed down town I used the following documents. CE2645 -an FBI report dated June 1964 that outlined each patrol assignment for that day and what their response was. This report was prepared to determine if any patrol car could have been responsible for the sighting of a car at 1026 North Beckley around 1pm as claimed by Mrs Roberts. Interestingly the one officer excluded from this summary is Tippit!  Putnam Exhibit 1 is a map of the patrol districts.  The transcripts that appear at John McAdams site http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm  From these I prepared the following map.

(http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/col_crow/jackson.jpg)

Those units who were reported to attend downtown in response to the call are indicated in red and are positioned in the district allocated prior to the shooting. Cars containing 2 officers are indicated by circles and those with one are squares. There were some cars instructed to stay in their district and some of them were instructed to set up road blocks. All roadblocks were to the North and north-east of the city. Officers instructed to stay in their areas are indicated in blue. There are some officers that require attention. Parker, Nelson, Menzel and Tippit.  Officer Parker (56)  Parker was assigned districts 56 and 58. After making a call at 12.28 Parker disappears for a period "anyone know where 56 is? However the transcripts indicate he radioed in his position to dispatch around 12.44 that he was on East Jefferson. This is within the Oak Cliff district and it appears he has not responded to the downtown call. In CE2645 it is stated he remained in his allocated district. This is clearly wrong and Jackson knows he is in Oak Cliff. His position at this time is indicated on the map. Parker does not broadcast again until 2.13! CE2645 claims he remained in his district about 10 miles away the whole time.  Officer Nelson (87) It appears that Nelson probably responded to the downtown call as he is well north of his assigned district when he calls his position to Jackson at 12.45. He was at RL Thornton and Marsalis, many miles North of district 87. He is closer to Oak Cliff at this time than Tippit. Apparently he ignores this call from Jackson and continues to the TSBD. In CE2645 it simply states he proceeded downtown as instructed. No mention of the Jackson instruction to patrol Oak Cliff.  Officer Walker   He is instructed to remain in districts 85 and 86 south of Oak Cliff.  Officer Menzel (91) Menzel assigned district 91 and 92, reports clear at 12.28. It appears he heads for lunch at a diner at 430 West Jefferson. It would seem strange he hears nothing on the radio about the shooting on the radio 2minutes later. He seems to be the only officer who takes a lunch break at this time. He does not report back until after one and in CE 2645 it states he repeatedly tried to call by phone but couldn't get through. Obviously no news of the shooting had reached him in nearly 40 minutes. Believable? No attempt by dispatch to contact him in this time to help patrol Oak Cliff. Strange, given Jackson's concern about draining the area of resources.  Officer Tippit (78) It might appear that he too was responding to the downtown call but certainly at a slower pace than Nelson. He reports he is at Keinst and Bonnie View at 12.45 and his position on the map reflects this. However we know that there are 5 witnesses that put him at the Gloco station around this time.  So does it appear that Jackson's justification for ordering Tippit and Neslon to Oak Cliff is logical from the evidence? It certainly appears to me  that there are large areas of Dallas devoid of police. In fact apart from those downtown at the TSBD, Oak Cliff is blessed with police. An update to the original post having trawled through the transcripts and listened to the calls. Comments in chronological order.

1. There is a call of 78 (Tippit) at 12.29 one minute before the shots. it is not clear if this it Tippit or Dispatch.

 2. At 12.30 91(Menzel) calls clear twice. The second time is just 5 seconds before sirens are clearly heard on the radio. Menzel does not get confirmation of clear from dispatch? Apparently he goes to lunch.

 3.At 12.36 93 is called from dispatch and reports at 12.36 at Sylvan and Fort Worth? This appears to be way outside the assigned district. Assists an ambulance by blocking a road. 

4. Who is 97 that called in at 12.41? Reports in at Westmoreland and Fort Worth less about 5 minutes from 1026 North Beckley. Dispatch seems suprised 97 is in service.

5. The 12.41 call for squads in down town area to code 3 elm and Houston. Note the call is for local units only.

6. Unit 43 already there at the jail.  Unit 233 is already at Elm and Houston.  Unit 61 is close by.

Then 77 responds from the district west of Tippit. He does not get confirmed by dispatch for this. 

Then Unit 63, I have no idea who that is but district 63 is close to the scene.  Then dispatch calls 76 in.  Then 97, again no idea who 97 is but district 97 is west of Oak Cliff, is called by dispatch.  Then 60, 80, and 100 are called by dispatch to attend (Sgts. Putnam, Davis and Jennings). 

113 is enroute 113 is downtown close already. I could not find a listing for 113. Is it car 113 (Woods) in district 68 or Osburn as indicated on McAdams site. The position called, Gaston and Haskell is North of Fort worth? Strange.

66 calls enroute, again no idea who 66 is.

At 12.42 81 Calls he is at Corinth and 8th this is in northeastern oak cliff 56 reports East Jefferson again in Oak Cliff 12.45 suspect description is broadcast and 233 broadcasts the suspect is in the TSBD

81 has moved north on industrial moving closer to the TSBD. This call triggers 78 and 87 immediately.

There is almost no gap between the 10-4 call from the previous call and the instruction to Tippit and Nelson to move. Why? Surely no drain of Oak Cliff has occurred. There is no indication that dispatch even knows that Menzel is at lunch. Also. there is no 10-4 call from Tippit or Nelson to this instruction, merely a call of current postion. No 78 for Tippit is audible.

79 (Anglin) calls a position of 1400 Corinth this is after - so dispatch doesn't know he left his Oak Cliff district until now. Then 93 calls asks where to go dispatch says TSBD he is also originally assigned to Oak Cliff 12.46 77 assigned to Oak Cliff asks where to report and is told the TSBD

12.48 81 arrives at the TSBD and calls out to dispatch 12.52 79 (Anglin) calls he will be out at underpass

Then 87 (Nelson) calls out down here (TSBD).

THis is when it would be apparent Oak Cliff is possibly needing backup. Could he have made a call at this point for Tippit to move there and it has been moved up? Finally, Jackson's strange 12.55 call to confirm Tippit is in Oak Cliff and at to be at large for any emergency. It seemed to me the "78" on this recording sounds different to Jackson's previous 78. No so much pronounced Southern twang. When analyzed in sequence I find no evidence that a call should be made at 12.45. Possibly 10 minutes later. Initially only downtown squads were asked and reported to the scene. It was not until later that Units such as 81 responded or asked if they should attend.  Who is car 97? Even dispatch is suprised by that call.

FWIW.....  Colin.....The map that you posted shows that JD Tippit was not far from Red Bird airport.   It's been reported that the residents near Red bird called the DPD about suspicious aircraft activity immediately following the Coup d e'tat......
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 15, 2019, 11:55:47 PM
Earlier.. I made an error in linking Ruby's arrest report. Here is all I can find so far....
 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/21/2113-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/21/2134-001.gif
Jack Leaville, LC Graves, and Blackie Harrison are Jack Ruby's arresting officers of record.
 
Title: Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 16, 2019, 02:47:56 AM
Tippit's movements...............

According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers.......

Quote
Tippit was most likely involved in the conspiracy and knew both Ruby and Oswald. Tippit was what is referred to, as a redneck and also a corrupt cop. Although Tippit was also a womanizer, I will leave out the possible repercussions to Tippit in this regards.

An undercover narcotics officer working for Sheriff Bill Decker, was also working as a musician in various night clubs, including Jack Ruby's. He claims that Tippit was one of the Dallas Police Officers closest to Ruby and who performed tasks for him.

Mack Pate, owner of a garage, who knew a large number of the Dallas police heard from several of them who took their cars to him, that Tippit was a "dirty cop." A friend of Tippit's own mother also confirms this.

Mack Pate's mechanic, T. F. White, who was interviewed by the FBI, spotted a car parked at the El Chico restaurant, across from their garage, just after the shooting at Dealey Plaza. White insisted the man sitting in the car was Oswald.

Mack Pate and Wes Wise checked around Oak Cliff for some time and found quite a number of people who had seen Ruby and Oswald together on many occasions during the weeks preceding the assassination. (Wes Wise later became Mayor of Dallas.)

Earl Crater of the Pig and Whistle restaurant said that LHO, Ruby and Tippit had breakfast there on a number of occasions at 7:00 A.M. Crater said that LHO never had more then a cup of coffee.

It is believed that Tippit went home for lunch on the 22nd. Then, about 12:45, 15 minutes after JFK was shot, Tippit was parked at the south end of the Houston Street Viaduct, in North Oak Cliff, facing the cars coming off the viaduct....presumably watching for someone.

Several employees of the Good Luck Gas Station saw Tippit sitting there for several minutes. Then he was observed driving away from the gas station at a high rate of speed, at about 12:50 and headed south. Tippits radio call at 12:54 places him at E. 8th and Lancaster, a few blocks south of the service station

At no time that afternoon was Tippit in his assigned district and he was always in North Oak Cliff. That district was assigned to Officer William D. Mentzel.

Tippit made a call from Top Ten Records on Jefferson, a few blocks west of 12th and Marsalis, around 1:00 P.M. When he came out, he was agitated and drove off fast. Tippits movements and actions appeared to be as though frantically looking for someone.

Tippit then, cut off a car driven by an Insurance salesman, James Andrews, who was headed west on 10th Street about eight blocks west of where Tippit would be killed. Tippit, also driving west behind the salesman's car passed him, pulled to the right in front of him, blocking him in. Tippit then rushed to the drivers side of the car and looked at the floor between the seats. Tippit apparently did not see what he was looking for, jumped back in his patrol car and drove away quickly, reversing his direction and heading back east.

The salesman who experienced this incident, James Andrews, worked for American National LIfe Insurance, which had not long before also employed Roscoe White, until he began at the Police Dept. Roscoe White and Tippit knew each other.lived near each other and their families were connected. Mrs Tippit had been a bridesmaid at Whites wedding to Geneva.

According to DPD personnel records, starting in 1956, Tippit worked security at the Stevens Park Theater, which showed both English and Spanish speaking films. The owner, Manuel Avila, was allegedly involved in prostitution, in the hispanic community and ran a well-known Latin Club. Avila had ties to anti-Castro Cubans. Before coming to Dallas, Avila had been a CBS correspondent in Mexico and was the Dallas Spanish Language Voice of America correspendent.

Dallas researcher, Prof. Bill Pulte says:

"There can be little doubt that Avila knew Ruby, given the proximity of Avila's theater to downtown Dallas, where Ruby's clubs were located plus given the mutual interest in prostitution of Avila and Ruby. Tippit worked for Avila for several years. Ralph Paul owned the Miramar Restaurant, catty-corner to Avila's theater and Tippit got to know Paul.

A good friend of Paul's was Austin Cook owner of Auston's Barbeque. This may have been how Tippit took a second part-time moonlighting job, at Austins. In addition, Ralph Paul was Ruby's backer and silent partner. The Warren Commission also raised quesations about the possibility that Tippit was involved with drugs."

Little has been mentoned or known about Tippit working for Avila. The focus has been on his moonlighting as security at Austin's Barbeque.

Tippit had a close friend, Officer Billy Anglin, and both had adjoining patrol areas which included Harendale--the sreet in East Oak Cliff where a house full of violent Cuban conspirators involved in the anti-Castro movement (SNFE/Alpha 66) and arms smuggling was located.

Anglin last saw Tippit on the morning he was killed, having had coffee at "The Old Drive-In" about 11:30-11:45. The Warren Commission never called any relative, associate or police officer who worked with Tippit to testify. Even the HSCA wondered why not!

What was Tippit doing in the section of North Oak Cliff where Ruby and Oswald both lived--not his assigned district--when most other police were concerned with the assassination and in Dealey Plaza? Oak Cliff was Tippits district, although three miles away and primarily the downtown police officers were called to Dealey Plaza. Dispatcher, Jim Bowles (later Sheriff) said that Tippit was in his assigned district. Although he didn't seem to be, he was apparently several miles from where he was supposed to be. He was ordered to move into "Central Oak Cliff" at 12:45 p.m.This order was not in the first transcript produce by the DPD and then suddenly appeared in a later transcript. This has caused many reserchers to speculate this order was later dubbed into the tape by the police friends of Tippit.

There was no reason for Tippit to be moved to that area, which was far from his assigned area. Yet it is believed he strayed over to that area many tiimes. Many witnesses say they saw Tippit in that area quite often, and in fact some thought he even lived in that area....particularly around the area where he was killed.

It is quite possible that the Cubans were directed to rent a house in Tippit's or Anglin's district to provide them with protection and a blind eye to the arms going in and out. If perhaps as some believe, Oswald was an undercover agent reporting on illegal arms to law enforcement agents or perhaps to the Dodd Committee, then Oswald would be targeted by the Cubans, if perhaps they were on to him. There is some belief that Oswald had been to the house at 3126 Harlendale too.

A group of Mexican-Americans were involved with the Cubans and acted as translators, some provided by Manuel Avila, who most probably knew Jack Ruby, also involved in ilegal arms sales. Avila was a honcho in the Mexican-Americamn community, and he employed J D Tippit, in a part-time security job.

Working for Avila gave Tippit knowledge of the Latin underworld and the fringe of the Cuban undergound. The Mexican-American group moved into the 3200 block of Harlendale about the same time that the Cubans moved into 3126 Harlendale.[/size][/b]

Compiled [by Dixie Dea] from information in Harrison Livingstone's, The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy....(2004)
Some observations are dubious. Others have been verified.