JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Michael O'Brian on January 31, 2018, 10:40:24 PM

Title: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on January 31, 2018, 10:40:24 PM
https://books.google.ie/books?id=U1IEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
Please read Marina's interview on page 39
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 31, 2018, 11:14:29 PM
Thought I'd provide a screenshot of the relevant passage.

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/marina-life.png)
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on January 31, 2018, 11:23:52 PM
Thanks John
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 01, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
The Tommy Thompson article was submitted before Oswald was murdered with extreme prejudice. Thompson was back in Los Angeles when that happened.

To accommodate the information that Oswald had died, the article text (and I would assume particularly the end portion) was edited. Because of time limitations, it's possible Thompson wasn't involved in the revision.

The original Thompson article was published in a small number of Life issues. I believe it was titled "Assassin: The Man Held for Kennedy's Murder". The banner was then changed and the Jack Beers photo added, along with the story updates.
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Larry Baldwin on February 01, 2018, 08:27:07 PM
There is no direct quote from Marina stating that the last time she saw Lee was the weekend prior to the murder.
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 01, 2018, 08:41:26 PM
There is no direct quote from Marina stating that the last time she saw Lee was the weekend prior to the murder.

Marina is telling it to the journalist, and it is all fresh in her mind at this point, only one or even on the same day of the shootings, why would a reporter add all of the detail such as his plans to get an apartment together with his family and how he laughed and picked up his infant daughter.
You are in extreme denial if you can just dismiss this article.
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Larry Baldwin on February 01, 2018, 08:48:41 PM
Marina is telling it to the journalist, and it is all fresh in her mind at this point, only one or even on the same day of the shootings, why would a reporter add all of the detail such as his plans to get an apartment together with his family and how he laughed and picked up his infant daughter.
You are in extreme denial if you can just dismiss this article.

No denial here.  I do not believe LHO ever fired a shot on 11/22/1963.  The events of their meeting (Marina and Lee) could have easily taken place on the Thursday night before the assassination. However, Marina's conflicting stories render her unreliable and, without a direct quote, we cannot definitively say that she made the claim to the reporter.  You may have the denial locked up on this one.  Sorry to be the bearer of such news.
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 01, 2018, 08:54:09 PM
No denial here.  I do not believe LHO ever fired a shot on 11/22/1963.  The events of their meeting (Marina and Lee) could have easily taken place on the Thursday night before the assassination. However, Marina's conflicting stories render her unreliable and, without a direct quote, we cannot definitively say that she made the claim to the reporter.  You may have the denial locked up on this one.  Sorry to be the bearer of such news.

You are denying that Marina dictated the contents of the article to the journalist, it states he came a week before last, and goes onto say he left for to begin another weeks work, none of this points towards the encounter being on the 21.11.63
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Larry Baldwin on February 02, 2018, 12:47:04 PM
You are denying that Marina dictated the contents of the article to the journalist, it states he came a week before last, and goes onto say he left for to begin another weeks work, none of this points towards the encounter being on the 21.11.63

I am not denying that Marina dictated the content of the article.  We cannot say if she did or not.  It is not substantial enough proof (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 02, 2018, 03:00:15 PM
I am not denying that Marina dictated the content of the article.  We cannot say if she did or not.  It is not substantial enough proof (in my opinion).

It might have been dictated through a Russian translator who dissapeared, afaik Margurette made serious efforts to locate her, for the testimony. If you read the last paragraph it mentions that Marina managed a few words in English! after crying she added that she loved Lee that he was a goodman, and he did not do anything, it goes onto say that his Mother pointed at the tv and said, her son was persecuted, so the interview certainly took place, even the photos exist of them in the room. No mention of him leaving the ring or money or even being there on the 21.11. it's proof enough in my opinion, when all other evidence of his innocence is taken into consideration,
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Michael O'Brian on February 02, 2018, 03:49:50 PM
I am not denying that Marina dictated the content of the article.  We cannot say if she did or not.  It is not substantial enough proof (in my opinion).

Marguerites testimony regarding this interview which was carried out at the Paines home on the 22.11.63 is on page 144 Ruth may well have done the translation https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh1/html/WC_Vol1_0078b.htm

The reporter then called on the 23.11. this time with a Russian translator, see page 148
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 02, 2018, 06:51:57 PM
No denial here.  I do not believe LHO ever fired a shot on 11/22/1963.  The events of their meeting (Marina and Lee) could have easily taken place on the Thursday night before the assassination. However, Marina's conflicting stories render her unreliable and, without a direct quote, we cannot definitively say that she made the claim to the reporter.  You may have the denial locked up on this one.  Sorry to be the bearer of such news.

No denial here.  I do not believe LHO ever fired a shot on 11/22/1963.

If you read the article ( I have that copy of LIFE)  It's clearly obvious that they were heavily biased against Lee.  The article paints him as the murderer without any real justification.

P.S.   This story in a national publication (LIFE) was obviously intended to convict Lee Oswald in the public's mind....

Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Zeon Wasinsky on February 03, 2018, 06:40:15 AM
There is one way to prove beyond doubt that Oswald could not have been on the 6th floor at time of shooting, and that is Dorothy Garner.

If she is still alive, a simple question could be asked: Did you hear V Adams and  Sandra Styles voices on the staircase, when you came out of the 4th floor office?

Mrs Garners statement to Barry Ernest, author of the book "The Girl on the Stairs" was that she did not actually see Adams and Styles when exiting the 4th floor office, but she "heard" them on the staircase.

Given that Adams and Styles did not run into Baker and Truly, or vis versa, means A&S had to have left the 4th floor office by 10 sec post shots, in order to make it to the 1st floor by 60 sec post shots, and exit out an open roll up door by the elevators. Baker and Truly are crossing the 1st floor surely by 65 sec post shots, to reach the rear stairs and elevators by 70 sec post shots, thus would surely have seen A&S arriving any later than 60 sec to the 1st floor.

Mrs Dorothy Garners statement to Barry Ernest was that she followed A&S "almost immediately" and "right behind" them. But she also did not "see" them when she exited the office, so that defacto means Garner delayed at least 15 seconds after A&S exited, which is the time required for A&S to have crossed about 70 ft of floor and go down partway the 1st half of the staircase and be out of LOS of Garner, when she exits the office.

To have missed seeing Oswald on the 4th floor landing however, Mrs Garner would have had to delay approx 43 seconds from when A&S exited the office (they exited at 10 sec post shots), because it would take Oswald at least 50 seconds to reach the 4th floor staircase, and 3 sec more to go down it far enough  to be out of LOS of Garner.
 
If Garner heard "the voices of the girls" on the stairs, that conclusively would prove Garner  exited office WELL BEFORE 53 second post shots, because at 53 sec post shots, Adams and Styles have almost reached  1st floor and thats 4 floors of sound separation thus improbable  that Garner would have  heard their voices.

Barring such a definitive statement from Garner, leaves only the probability of which time is more probable to match best with Dorothy Garners statement of following "immediately" and "right behind" A&S. 15 secs later?  or 43 seconds later?



Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Jerry Organ on February 03, 2018, 03:11:20 PM
No denial here.  I do not believe LHO ever fired a shot on 11/22/1963.

If you read the article ( I have that copy of LIFE)  It's clearly obvious that they were heavily biased against Lee.  The article paints him as the murderer without any real justification.

P.S.   This story in a national publication (LIFE) was obviously intended to convict Lee Oswald in the public's mind....

There's a book called "JFK First Day Evidence" you might want to peruse.
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 03, 2018, 05:12:00 PM
There's a book called "JFK First Day Evidence" you might want to peruse.

I bought the book at the Adolphus in Dallas in 93....Rusty Livingston autographed it at the time...My copy of that book is
now somewhat worn ....but what exactly are you referring to.....

Are you referring to the photo on page 193 ? Which is a photo of the box the "subject sat on"  ....At least that's what RL Studebaker wrote on the box on 11 /22/63.....

The note on the box reads....."from top of box subject sat on " The note and the "LEFT PALM" print are on the NW corner of the box ......so if the subject  ( the arch villainm Lee Harrrrrvey Osssswald ) actually sat on that box he was facing North ..but the astute investigators imagined that he had sat on that box and aimed the rifle from the SOUTH window...

Question.... How the hell could the arch villain been facing NORTH while aiming a rifle SOUTH?
Title: Re: Most significant proof of innocence
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2018, 10:02:03 PM
There is one way to prove beyond doubt that Oswald could not have been on the 6th floor at time of shooting, and that is Dorothy Garner.

If she is still alive, a simple question could be asked: Did you hear V Adams and  Sandra Styles voices on the staircase, when you came out of the 4th floor office?

Sadly, she is not.

(https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2013/294/119126510_138245741530.jpg)