JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Walt Cakebread on January 30, 2019, 03:11:46 PM

Title: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 30, 2019, 03:11:46 PM
At about  2:50 pm 11 / 22/ 63 in the basement of the DPD  FBI agent James Hosty told a Dallas P.D. Detective named Jack Revill, that a communist named Lee Oswald was the man who had shot President Kennedy about a little over two hours earlier.  Hosty also told Revill that the FBI knew that Oswald was in Dallas and they knew that he was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.  Revill reported this information immediately to his superior Captain Gannaway,   and was ordered to write a memo to Captain Ganaway. Revill's exact words were...  "Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation was aware of the subject ( LHO) and they had information that this subject (LHO) was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy"


Lee Oswald had been dragged from the Texas Theater about 1: 50 or an hour before Hosty met Revill in the basement of the Police Station. The name Oswald had not been broadcast over the radio because Lee Oswald had not been identified until after he was being questioned in the Police Station at about 2:15 pm. 

 At about 2:30 pm J.Edgar Hoover had called the Dallas SAIC Gordon Shanklin and ordered Shanklin to send FBI agent Hosty over to the DPD to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.  Shanklin called DPD Capt Will Fritz and informed Fritz that they were aware of Oswald's presence in Dallas and one of his agents, James Hosty,  had been "working with these people" and he wanted that agent to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.

Hosty encountered Detective Revill about 15 minutes later in the basement parking garage of the Police Station., and told Revill that Oswald was the assassin and they HAD INFORMATION  the he was capable of assassinating the President.

Those who have seriously studied the case know that there was some sort of tape recording in the hands of the FBI on 11/22/63 ....That tape allegedly was studied to determine if the voice recorded on that tape was the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald.   There is a great deal of confusion and controversy about that tape.. .

 Could it be that Hoover had a recording of Lee Oswald at the Cuban Embassy loudly threatening to shoot JFK?   

But first things first....The question that is the title of this thread.....

How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater ??   Oswald's name wasn't known until about 2:15 and the police weren't certain that the man's true name was Lee Oswald. ....   But J.Edgar Hoover knew.... How'd he know that?   
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 30, 2019, 09:55:39 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
At about  2:50 pm 11 / 22/ 63 in the basement of the DPD  FBI agent James Hosty told a Dallas P.D. Detective named Jack Revill, that a communist named Lee Oswald was the man who had shot President Kennedy about a little over two hours earlier.  Hosty also told Revill that the FBI knew that Oswald was in Dallas and they knew that he was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.  Revill reported this information immediately to his superior Captain Gannaway,   and was ordered to write a memo to Captain Ganaway. Revill's exact words were...  "Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation was aware of the subject ( LHO) and they had information that this subject (LHO) was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy"


Lee Oswald had been dragged from the Texas Theater about 1: 50 or an hour before Hosty met Revill in the basement of the Police Station. The name Oswald had not been broadcast over the radio because Lee Oswald had not been identified until after he was being questioned in the Police Station at about 2:15 pm. 

 At about 2:30 pm J.Edgar Hoover had called the Dallas SAIC Gordon Shanklin and ordered Shanklin to send FBI agent Hosty over to the DPD to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.  Shanklin called DPD Capt Will Fritz and informed Fritz that they were aware of Oswald's presence in Dallas and one of his agents, James Hosty,  had been "working with these people" and he wanted that agent to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.

Hosty encountered Detective Revill about 15 minutes later in the basement parking garage of the Police Station., and told Revill that Oswald was the assassin and they HAD INFORMATION  the he was capable of assassinating the President.

Those who have seriously studied the case know that there was some sort of tape recording in the hands of the FBI on 11/22/63 ....That tape allegedly was studied to determine if the voice recorded on that tape was the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald.   There is a great deal of confusion and controversy about that tape.. .

 Could it be that Hoover had a recording of Lee Oswald at the Cuban Embassy loudly threatening to shoot JFK?   

But first things first....The question that is the title of this thread.....

How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater ??   Oswald's name wasn't known until about 2:15 and the police weren't certain that the man's true name was Lee Oswald. ....   But J.Edgar Hoover knew.... How'd he know that?

This post has garnered 36 reviews but not a single response.....The question at the closing is: How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man ( Lee Oswald) who had been dragged from the Texas theater BEFORE the police had determined the man's identity? 
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on January 31, 2019, 02:16:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This post has garnered 36 reviews but not a single response.....The question at the closing is: How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man ( Lee Oswald) who had been dragged from the Texas theater BEFORE the police had determined the man's identity?

Wonder what has happened to the usual suspects, Walt?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Dale Nason on January 31, 2019, 02:30:58 PM
Walt, that's an excellent question. I have no idea what the answer is. Another question that might follow could be: If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment? I would think that just the opposite would be proper procedure.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on January 31, 2019, 03:39:11 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This post has garnered 36 reviews but not a single response.....The question at the closing is: How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man ( Lee Oswald) who had been dragged from the Texas theater BEFORE the police had determined the man's identity?

That's because, as usual, your post contains a false premise.  Hoover did not know the identity of the person arrested until he was told.  The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.  Nothing you have cited suggests that Hoover knew Oswald's name before he received this information from his agents in Dallas.  There is no mystery here.

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it was approximately 1:30 that we got the report that a police officer had been killed in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, and that the police were surrounding a movie theatre where the suspect was allegedly located.
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 31, 2019, 05:09:08 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Walt, that's an excellent question. I have no idea what the answer is. Another question that might follow could be: If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment? I would think that just the opposite would be proper procedure.

 If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment?

In a nut shell.....  Hoover did know ahead of time....( He was sanctioning the murder)    He panicked when Lee wasn't shot in the TSBD.......  So he notified his SAIC  Gorgon Shanklin immediately upon Lee Oswald arrest in the Theater.....  The problem he created in his panic was the failure to allow the DPD to identify the man prior to notifying Shankiln....

And Shanklin should have told Hosty to keep his mouth shut about the FBI having a recording of Lee Oswald threatening to shoot JFK.....Although Hosty didn't spell it out for Jack Revill when he and Revill met in the DPD, he DID tell Revill that the FBI had information that Oswald was capable of assassinating the President....

I'm convinced that the "information" Hosty was referring to was the tape recording of Lee yelling at the Cuban ambassador...." Somebody should shoot that SOB Kennedy"  ( Lee was desperate to get a Visa and blurted out that hollow threat ) Hoover had intended to introduce that into the evidence stream after Lee's bulllet riddle body had been carried from the TSBD.... hadn't intended to put that into the evidence stream until  later when he could claim that they had just learned that Oswald had threaten the President in October when he was in Mexico City.  ( And in doing so Hoover avoided the responsibility for allowing Oswald to be at large in Dallas)

Hosty exacerbated the situation when he told Captain Fritz to ask Oswald about Mexico City ( which was a veiled reference to Oswald's outburst at the Cuban Embassy)   Lee Knew exactly what Hosty was referring to and he lost his kool, and exploded at Hosty....
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 31, 2019, 05:15:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's because, as usual, your post contains a false premise.  Hoover did not know the identity of the person arrested until he was told.  The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.  Nothing you have cited suggests that Hoover knew Oswald's name before he received this information from his agents in Dallas.  There is no mystery here.

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it was approximately 1:30 that we got the report that a police officer had been killed in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, and that the police were surrounding a movie theatre where the suspect was allegedly located.
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit.

The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.


Then explain why the DPD didn't know Lee's identity until about 2:30.....And during the 3:00pm interrogation Fritz asked Lee If his name was OH Lee.....
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Agee on January 31, 2019, 05:25:38 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's because, as usual, your post contains a false premise.  Hoover did not know the identity of the person arrested until he was told.  The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.  Nothing you have cited suggests that Hoover knew Oswald's name before he received this information from his agents in Dallas.  There is no mystery here.

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it was approximately 1:30 that we got the report that a police officer had been killed in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, and that the police were surrounding a movie theatre where the suspect was allegedly located.
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit.

Excellent post Richard, yes, there's no mystery here. Note that most of the mentioned times are estimates.


At about 2:50 pm 11/22/63 in the basement of the DPD  FBI agent James Hosty told a Dallas P.D. Detective named Jack Revill, that a communist named Lee Oswald was the man who had shot President Kennedy about a little over two hours earlier. Hosty also told Revill that the FBI knew that Oswald was in Dallas and they knew that he was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.  Revill reported this information immediately to his superior Captain Gannaway, and was ordered to write a memo to Captain Ganaway. Revill's exact words were...  "Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation was aware of the subject ( LHO) and they had information that this subject (LHO) was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy"

Lee Oswald had been dragged from the Texas Theater about 1: 50 or an hour before Hosty met Revill in the basement of the Police Station. The name Oswald had not been broadcast over the radio because Lee Oswald had not been identified until after he was being questioned in the Police Station at about 2:15 pm. 

At about 2:30 pm J.Edgar Hoover had called the Dallas SAIC Gordon Shanklin and ordered Shanklin to send FBI agent Hosty over to the DPD to be present during the interrogation of Oswald. Shanklin called DPD Capt Will Fritz and informed Fritz that they were aware of Oswald's presence in Dallas and one of his agents, James Hosty, had been "working with these people" and he wanted that agent to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.

Hosty encountered Detective Revill about 15 minutes later in the basement parking garage of the Police Station., and told Revill that Oswald was the assassin and they HAD INFORMATION  the he was capable of assassinating the President.

Those who have seriously studied the case know that there was some sort of tape recording in the hands of the FBI on 11/22/63 ....That tape allegedly was studied to determine if the voice recorded on that tape was the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald. There is a great deal of confusion and controversy about that tape.. .

Could it be that Hoover had a recording of Lee Oswald at the Cuban Embassy loudly threatening to shoot JFK?   

But first things first....The question that is the title of this thread.....

How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater ??   Oswald's name wasn't known until about 2:15 and the police weren't certain that the man's true name was Lee Oswald. ....   But J.Edgar Hoover knew.... How'd he know that?   
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Steve Logan on January 31, 2019, 05:32:17 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment?

In a nut shell.....  Hoover did know ahead of time....( He was sanctioning the murder)    He panicked when Lee wasn't shot in the TSBD.......  So he notified his SAIC  Gorgon Shanklin immediately upon Lee Oswald arrest in the Theater.....  The problem he created in his panic was the failure to allow the DPD to identify the man prior to notifying Shankiln....

And Shanklin should have told Hosty to keep his mouth shut about the FBI having a recording of Lee Oswald threatening to shoot JFK.....Although Hosty didn't spell it out for Jack Revill when he and Revill met in the DPD, he DID tell Revill that the FBI had information that Oswald was capable of assassinating the President....

I'm convinced that the "information" Hosty was referring to was the tape recording of Lee yelling at the Cuban ambassador...." Somebody should shoot that SOB Kennedy"  ( Lee was desperate to get a Visa and blurted out that hollow threat ) Hoover had intended to introduce that into the evidence stream after Lee's bulllet riddle body had been carried from the TSBD.... hadn't intended to put that into the evidence stream until  later when he could claim that they had just learned that Oswald had threaten the President in October when he was in Mexico City.  ( And in doing so Hoover avoided the responsibility for allowing Oswald to be at large in Dallas)

Hosty exacerbated the situation when he told Captain Fritz to ask Oswald about Mexico City ( which was a veiled reference to Oswald's outburst at the Cuban Embassy)   Lee Knew exactly what Hosty was referring to and he lost his kool, and exploded at Hosty....
There's at least 15 of Wally's Meadow Muffins in this load of crap here . Great stuff.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 31, 2019, 05:41:37 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Excellent post Richard, yes, there's no mystery here. Note that most of the mentioned times are estimates.


At about 2:50 pm 11/22/63 in the basement of the DPD  FBI agent James Hosty told a Dallas P.D. Detective named Jack Revill, that a communist named Lee Oswald was the man who had shot President Kennedy about a little over two hours earlier. Hosty also told Revill that the FBI knew that Oswald was in Dallas and they knew that he was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.  Revill reported this information immediately to his superior Captain Gannaway, and was ordered to write a memo to Captain Ganaway. Revill's exact words were...  "Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation was aware of the subject ( LHO) and they had information that this subject (LHO) was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy"

Lee Oswald had been dragged from the Texas Theater about 1: 50 or an hour before Hosty met Revill in the basement of the Police Station. The name Oswald had not been broadcast over the radio because Lee Oswald had not been identified until after he was being questioned in the Police Station at about 2:15 pm. 

At about 2:30 pm J.Edgar Hoover had called the Dallas SAIC Gordon Shanklin and ordered Shanklin to send FBI agent Hosty over to the DPD to be present during the interrogation of Oswald. Shanklin called DPD Capt Will Fritz and informed Fritz that they were aware of Oswald's presence in Dallas and one of his agents, James Hosty, had been "working with these people" and he wanted that agent to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.

Hosty encountered Detective Revill about 15 minutes later in the basement parking garage of the Police Station., and told Revill that Oswald was the assassin and they HAD INFORMATION  the he was capable of assassinating the President.

Those who have seriously studied the case know that there was some sort of tape recording in the hands of the FBI on 11/22/63 ....That tape allegedly was studied to determine if the voice recorded on that tape was the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald. There is a great deal of confusion and controversy about that tape.. .

Could it be that Hoover had a recording of Lee Oswald at the Cuban Embassy loudly threatening to shoot JFK?   

But first things first....The question that is the title of this thread.....

How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater ??   Oswald's name wasn't known until about 2:15 and the police weren't certain that the man's true name was Lee Oswald. ....   But J.Edgar Hoover knew.... How'd he know that?   


There's no mystery here

Thank You, Mr Agee..... You're right.....  The title asks the question ....   And the text provides the answer....  so you're right.... There's no mystery here.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 01, 2019, 06:06:14 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Walt, that's an excellent question. I have no idea what the answer is. Another question that might follow could be: If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment? I would think that just the opposite would be proper procedure.

If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment?

There were three of Hoover's agents in the Texas Theater at the time Lee Oswald was arrested ....  What were they doing there?    How long had they been there?

Hoover knew the identity of the man before the Dallas Police had reached DPD headquarters with Lee Oswald in handcuffs.... 

It doesn't take a genius to see that Hoover was the mastermind who set Lee Oswald up ......

This is NOT to say that Hoover was a conspirator who plotted to murder JFK...  But he certainly played a key role.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 01, 2019, 11:36:42 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.


Then explain why the DPD didn't know Lee's identity until about 2:30.....And during the 3:00pm interrogation Fritz asked Lee If his name was OH Lee.....

Another false premise.  Bill Shelley confirmed his identity the moment the DPD brought him in a couple minutes after two.

Mr. BROWN. Yes; Detective Senkel and I took these employees to the city hall, and in this group of employees I was talking to a Mr. Shelley, and got an affidavit from him, when the officers brought in Lee Harvey Oswald.
And there were several cameramen following these boys also in front of them, and they opened the door to where I was interviewing; Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 01, 2019, 11:47:49 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Another false premise.  Bill Shelley confirmed his identity the moment the DPD brought him in a couple minutes after two.

Mr. BROWN. Yes; Detective Senkel and I took these employees to the city hall, and in this group of employees I was talking to a Mr. Shelley, and got an affidavit from him, when the officers brought in Lee Harvey Oswald.
And there were several cameramen following these boys also in front of them, and they opened the door to where I was interviewing; Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."


I doubt that Shelly said anything to the cops....   But even if he did, Hoover knew the man's identity before the police arrived at DPD headquarters....
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 01, 2019, 11:51:06 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Let's start with who they were and how you came to know this.

Jeeez!... It gets my goat when a lazy ass who hasn't done his homework, sits on his butt and says " Show Me"....  And then 95% of the time the lazy ass will argue about it, even after they've been taken by the hand like little kid.

FBI Agent James Hosty told me.....And you too can confirm that FBI agents Bob Barrett, Jim Swinford, and Bardwell Odum were there at the rear of the theater when Lee Oswald was slugged in the eye and piled on by four of Dallas's finest....  Just read page 63 of James Hosty's,... Assignment : Oswald ......

Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.  Keep in mind this is the same guy who questions how Hoover found out Oswald's identity while here noting the presence of FBI agents at the scene of his arrest.  It is truly bizarre.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 01, 2019, 11:57:51 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I doubt that Shelly said anything to the cops....   But even if he did, Hoover knew the man's identity before the police arrived at DPD headquarters....

Wrong.

Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 02, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.  Keep in mind this is the same guy who questions how Hoover found out Oswald's identity while here noting the presence of FBI agents at the scene of his arrest.  It is truly bizarre.

Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.

HUH??? Were Hoover's Extra Special Special Agents clairvoyant ??  How did they know that the man who had sneaked into the theater was "responsible for assassinating the president" There was a call that a man had entered the theater without buying a ticket....Now I ask you.....Is that a good reason for three FEDERAL agents to be there in the theater...   

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Steve Logan on February 02, 2019, 01:09:39 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.

HUH??? Were Hoover's Extra Special Special Agents clairvoyant ??  How did they know that the man who had sneaked into the theater was "responsible for assassinating the president" There was a call that a man had entered the theater without buying a ticket....Now I ask you.....Is that a good reason for three FEDERAL agents to be there in the theater...   
Lying again huh Wally? So that's why Julia Postal called the police, because a man snuck in without paying for a ticket? You didn't happen to leave out any other information from Postal's affidavit did you. Wow you're like a puppy that keeps peeing in the house. Somebody needs to roll up a newspaper and whack you on the snout. What a friggin liar you are.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 02, 2019, 03:44:53 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.

HUH??? Were Hoover's Extra Special Special Agents clairvoyant ??  How did they know that the man who had sneaked into the theater was "responsible for assassinating the president" There was a call that a man had entered the theater without buying a ticket....Now I ask you.....Is that a good reason for three FEDERAL agents to be there in the theater...   

Random citizens standing outside the theater believed Oswald to be the assassin, but you think the FBI agents had to be "clairvoyant" to reach that same conclusion? LOL.  That sounds like something Caprio would conjure up after his original claims were proven demonstrably false as yours have been.  Do you still believe the DPD and FBI had no way to know Oswald's identity until 2:30 or later even though he had ID on him and someone he worked with had confirmed who he was the moment he was brought in?  Whew.  That is Bigfoot stuff.  You should be ashamed to peddle that nonsense.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 02, 2019, 04:04:54 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Random citizens standing outside the theater believed Oswald to be the assassin, but you think the FBI agents had to be "clairvoyant" to reach that same conclusion? LOL.  That sounds like something Caprio would conjure up after his original claims were proven demonstrably false as yours have been.  Do you still believe the DPD and FBI had no way to know Oswald's identity until 2:30 or later even though he had ID on him and someone he worked with had confirmed who he was the moment he was brought in?  Whew.  That is Bigfoot stuff.  You should be ashamed to peddle that nonsense.

Random citizens standing outside the theater believed Oswald to be the assassin,

That's Utter Bull Stuff!!....   

I've seen photos that were taken outside the Theater.... The crowd were just gawking with bewildered looks on their faces....

For decades,  The liars have been floating the lie that the crowd were trying to get at Lee Oswald so they could lynch him ...  Whatta gargantuan Lie!

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 02, 2019, 11:10:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.

At the time they swarmed the Texas Theater, there was no reason to suspect that this man had assassinated the president.

There wasn't even any reason to suspect that this man had shot Tippit.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 02, 2019, 11:15:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Random citizens standing outside the theater believed Oswald to be the assassin,

That's Utter Bull Stuff!!....   

I've seen photos that were taken outside the Theater.... The crowd were just gawking with bewildered looks on their faces....

For decades,  The liars have been floating the lie that the crowd were trying to get at Lee Oswald so they could lynch him ...  Whatta gargantuan Lie!

Why would anyone lie about what those in the crowd were doing?  When all else fails suggest everyone is lying even when they had no apparent reason to lie.  You should be ashamed.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 02, 2019, 11:34:00 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Why would anyone lie about what those in the crowd where doing?  When all else fails suggest everyone is lying even when they had no apparent reason to lie.  You should be ashamed.

"Why would anyone lie about what those in the crowd where doing?"

Oh , Thank you so much for displaying your obtuseness....  Even a elementary school kid can answer that question....

They would lie to fool the unwary into thinking that the crowd knew exactly what was going on, and the crowd knew that Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald ( Boooooo Hissss) was a arch villain and a maniac who had murdered President Kennedy and Officer JD Tippit...When in reality the photos that were taken outside the theater, show the looks on the faces of the crowd, and it's clear that the crowd is bewildered and puzzled about what's going on.   
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 03, 2019, 10:27:14 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Why would anyone lie about what those in the crowd where doing?"

Oh , Thank you so much for displaying your obtuseness....  Even a elementary school kid can answer that question....

They would lie to fool the unwary into thinking that the crowd knew exactly what was going on, and the crowd knew that Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald ( Boooooo Hissss) was a arch villain and a maniac who had murdered President Kennedy and Officer JD Tippit...When in reality the photos that were taken outside the theater, show the looks on the faces of the crowd, and it's clear that the crowd is bewildered and puzzled about what's going on.   

LOL.  That is tinfoil hat nonsense.  There was no reason to lie about what the crowd was doing.   Those who were present confirm that folks in the crowd believed Oswald was linked to the assassination.  That was a logical inference based on what they knew.  The president had been assassinated a short distance away.  The police were looking for the assassin.  A large number of officers could be seen responding to the TT.  Anyone with a functioning brain could have made the connection. 
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 04, 2019, 12:42:12 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
  There was no reason to lie about what the crowd was doing.   Those who were present confirm that folks in the crowd believed Oswald was linked to the assassination.  That was a logical inference based on what they knew
Based on...being mentioned by policemen that were there...proof that Oswald was set up.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 04, 2019, 03:16:31 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Based on...being mentioned by policemen that were there...proof that Oswald was set up.

On page 152 & 153 of THE SEARCH FOR LHO  there are a couple of photos that show the countenance of the crowd that had been attracted by the police cars at the Theater, ....  They clearly are gawking and wondering what the hell's going on.....  If Dickie "Smith" had his head on his shoulders he could also see the pictures.... 
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Paul May on February 05, 2019, 01:35:51 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Why would anyone lie about what those in the crowd where doing?  When all else fails suggest everyone is lying even when they had no apparent reason to lie.  You should be ashamed.

Ashamed? Walt? You jest.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 05, 2019, 01:48:21 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
On page 152 & 153 of THE SEARCH FOR LHO  there are a couple of photos that show the countenance of the crowd that had been attracted by the police cars at the Theater, ....  They clearly are gawking and wondering what the hell's going on.....  If Dickie "Smith" had his head on his shoulders he could also see the pictures....

Wow.  You realize there is no sound in a still photo and that it captures only a brief instance of time?  You don't think people in that crowd had any reasonable basis to suspect that the person being arrested by a large police presence might be the assassin?  That doesn't mean the suspect had to be the assassin just that it could be presumed based on the theater being only a couple of miles away from the assassination site and the large police presence.  If not, what do you think those in the crowd believed was going on to create such a scene?  This is all rabbit hole nonsense.  The original point was that the FBI agents had an understandable interest in the manhunt for the assassin.  Their presence along with the DPD during that manhunt is completely understandable and not the subject of any mystery as Walt stupidly suggested.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2019, 02:36:06 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Wow.  You realize there is no sound in a still photo and that it captures only a brief instance of time?  You don't think people in that crowd had any reasonable basis to suspect that the person being arrested by a large police presence might be the assassin?  That doesn't mean the suspect had to be the assassin just that it could be presumed based on the theater being only a couple of miles away from the assassination site and the large police presence.  If not, what do you think those in the crowd believed was going on to create such a scene?  This is all rabbit hole nonsense.  The original point was that the FBI agents had an understandable interest in the manhunt for the assassin.  Their presence along with the DPD during that manhunt is completely understandable and not the subject of any mystery as Walt stupidly suggested.

There are several photos, .... They all show the crowd with puzzled and bewildered looks and body language.   I know that you can't see that because of your acute case of cranialrectalitis.....
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 05, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There are several photos, .... They all show the crowd with puzzled and bewildered looks and body language.   I know that you can't see that because of your acute case of cranialrectalitis.....

Mrs. POSTAL. That is when I really started shaking. I had never seen a live mob scene, that----
Mr. BALL. Well----
Mrs. POSTAL. They said, "What is going on?" And someone said, "Suspect," and they started in this way, just about that time I got out to the box office, back to the box office, and they stared screaming profuse language and----"Kill the so-and-so," and trying to get to him, and this and that and the officers were trying to hold on to Oswald----when I say, "Oswald," that man, because as I said, I didn't know who he was at that time and they was trying to hold him, because he was putting up a struggle, and then trying to keep the public off, and on the way to the car, parked right out front, one of the officers was----at that time I thought he was putting his hat on the man's face to try to keep the public from grabbing him by the hair, but I later read in the paper it was to cover his face and then he got him in the ear, and all bedlam, so far as the public, broke.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2019, 03:35:32 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Mrs. POSTAL. That is when I really started shaking. I had never seen a live mob scene, that----
Mr. BALL. Well----
Mrs. POSTAL. They said, "What is going on?" And someone said, "Suspect," and they started in this way, just about that time I got out to the box office, back to the box office, and they stared screaming profuse language and----"Kill the so-and-so," and trying to get to him, and this and that and the officers were trying to hold on to Oswald----when I say, "Oswald," that man, because as I said, I didn't know who he was at that time and they was trying to hold him, because he was putting up a struggle, and then trying to keep the public off, and on the way to the car, parked right out front, one of the officers was----at that time I thought he was putting his hat on the man's face to try to keep the public from grabbing him by the hair, but I later read in the paper it was to cover his face and then he got him in the ear, and all bedlam, so far as the public, broke.

It's a pity that you can't see the photos.... As the old adage says.....  "One picture is better than ten thousand words."...

Now then...Back to the subject ....   How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who had been dragged from the theater BEFORE any police officer had even  looked through the man's wallet in search of some Identification card.  ?????
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 05, 2019, 06:50:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Now then...Back to the subject ....   How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who had been dragged from the theater BEFORE any police officer had even  looked through the man's wallet in search of some Identification card.  ?????

Brutal.  Even if you type that statement over and over it is still a false premise.  You have cited zero evidence that would somehow prove that Hoover knew Oswald's identity before the police looked through his wallet.  Oswald was arrested at about 1:50.  He had multiple IDs in the name LHO.  When he is taken in, Shelley sees him and confirms it is Oswald.  Oswald confirms to CT Walker that he is not Hidell.  All this takes places shortly after 2.  Hosty is informed of the identity of assassin as LHO around this time and a call is immediately made to FBI HQ with that information.  So Hoover has that information shortly after 2PM.  Now show us your evidence that Hoover made reference to Oswald before the police searched his wallet.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2019, 07:12:54 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Brutal.  Even if you type that statement over and over it is still a false premise.  You have cited zero evidence that would somehow prove that Hoover knew Oswald's identity before the police looked through his wallet.  Oswald was arrested at about 1:50.  He had multiple IDs in the name LHO.  When he is taken in, Shelley sees him and confirms it is Oswald.  Oswald confirms to CT Walker that he is not Hidell.  All this takes places shortly after 2.  Hosty is informed of the identity of assassin as LHO around this time and a call is immediately made to FBI HQ with that information.  So Hoover has that information shortly after 2PM.  Now show us your evidence that Hoover made reference to Oswald before the police searched his wallet.

Page 16  Assignment : Oswald   Written by FBI Agent James Hosty.... ( You may recall that Hosty was in the thick of it)

TIME 2:15 P. M.    A hand clutched my elbow. I spun, Howe was in my face.  "They've just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they're booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff.   Officer's name was Tippit.

From this tidbit of information we can learn that Howe had learned of a telephone call  call prior to informing Hosty....so Agent Howe probably learned the man's was Lee Oswald at approximately 2:05 P.M.    ......   But at 2:05 P.M. the suspect was in a police car being transported to police headquarters and nobody had identified him.
 But according to Hosty Howe told him the suspect's name at 2:15..... 

At the bottom of page 16....the conversation between Howe and Hosty, is wrapped up....  Howe told me to go talk to Shanklin... "Shanklin is on the telephone with FBI headquarters"   Shanklin was standing behind his desk, still on the phone.  -------Some extraneous text about Shanklin's personal appearance  deleted -----  Shanklin said "Headquarters wants YOU Hosty to get down to the police department and take part in the interrogation of Oswald."

So it's obvious that FBI headquarters in Washington DC knew far in advance that the man's name was Lee Oswald .....FBI Headquarters knew the identity before the Dallas police knew......

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 05, 2019, 08:35:37 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Page 16  Assignment : Oswald   Written by FBI Agent James Hosty.... ( You may recall that Hosty was in the thick of it)

TIME 2:15 P. M.    A hand clutched my elbow. I spun, Howe was in my face.  "They've just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they're booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff.   Officer's name was Tippit.

From this tidbit of information we can learn that Howe had learned of a telephone call  call prior to informing Hosty....so Agent Howe probably learned the man's was Lee Oswald at approximately 2:05 P.M.    ......   But at 2:05 P.M. the suspect was in a police car being transported to police headquarters and nobody had identified him.
 But according to Hosty Howe told him the suspect's name at 2:15..... 

At the bottom of page 16....the conversation between Howe and Hosty, is wrapped up....  Howe told me to go talk to Shanklin... "Shanklin is on the telephone with FBI headquarters"   Shanklin was standing behind his desk, still on the phone.  -------Some extraneous text about Shanklin's personal appearance  deleted -----  Shanklin said "Headquarters wants YOU Hosty to get down to the police department and take part in the interrogation of Oswald."

So it's obvious that FBI headquarters in Washington DC knew far in advance that the man's name was Lee Oswald .....FBI Headquarters knew the identity before the Dallas police knew......

How exactly does any of that make it obvious that FBI HQ knew "far in advance" that the suspect was LHO?  LOL.  That is funniest thing I've read in a long time.  Even the stuff you made up doesn't support your desired outcome.  It's a simple linear sequence of events that presents no great mystery:

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it was approximately 1:30 that we got the report that a police officer had been killed in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, and that the police were surrounding a movie theatre where the suspect was allegedly located.
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.


Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 05, 2019, 10:25:55 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How exactly does any of that make it obvious that FBI HQ knew "far in advance" that the suspect was LHO?  LOL.  That is funniest thing I've read in a long time.  Even the stuff you made up doesn't support your desired outcome.  It's a simple linear sequence of events that presents no great mystery:

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it was approximately 1:30 that we got the report that a police officer had been killed in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, and that the police were surrounding a movie theatre where the suspect was allegedly located.
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.


Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit.

Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald  ( Shortly after 2 o'clock)

Ahh... But my dear Mr "Smith".... The official story (tale) says that Captain Fritz had not determined the Identity of the suspect  and was trying to determine if the man's name was A.J. hidell, Lee Harvey Oswald, or OH Lee....    And YOU  yourself Mr "Smith" have used this very argument when you have argued that Lee Oswald had several alias.   So since Fritz hadn't determined the man's name at 2:30....How the hell could the FBI have known...Hmmmmmmm?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 05, 2019, 11:33:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Oswald confirms to CT Walker that he is not Hidell.  All this takes places shortly after 2.

How do you know when this alleged conversation about "Hidell" took place?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 07, 2019, 02:08:11 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald  ( Shortly after 2 o'clock)

Ahh... But my dear Mr "Smith".... The official story (tale) says that Captain Fritz had not determined the Identity of the suspect  and was trying to determine if the man's name was A.J. hidell, Lee Harvey Oswald, or OH Lee....    And YOU  yourself Mr "Smith" have used this very argument when you have argued that Lee Oswald had several alias.   So since Fritz hadn't determined the man's name at 2:30....How the hell could the FBI have known...Hmmmmmmm?

Again, Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.  You are erroneously and stupidly implying that because Oswald was asked later about his use of an alias that they didn't know his real name.  That is simply demonstrably false. 

Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of card it was?
Mr. WALKER. Just an identification card. I don't recall what it was.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And I told him, "That is your real name, isn't it?"
Mr. BELIN. He - had he earlier told you his name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALKER. I believe he had.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And he said, "No, that is not my real name."
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2019, 02:42:38 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.  You are erroneously and stupidly implying that because Oswald was asked later about his use of an alias that they didn't know his real name.  That is simply demonstrably false. 

Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of card it was?
Mr. WALKER. Just an identification card. I don't recall what it was.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And I told him, "That is your real name, isn't it?"
Mr. BELIN. He - had he earlier told you his name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALKER. I believe he had.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And he said, "No, that is not my real name."

 Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.

 Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest. 

Really?  TEN  ID's...   List them.....

He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.

Please provide the tape recording in which Shelley says anything at the time Lee is brought into the police station....Photos show Shelley just sitting there like a toad in the sun, and saying nothing to anybody.

He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.

Thank you for exaggerating ( aka lying) Walker didn't immediately ask Lee to identify himself.... He allegedly searched through Lee's Wallet and claimed he found ID's with different names on them ...and THAT'S when he asked Lee to identify himself....  It was probably around 2:15 at that time.....And J.Edgar Hoover had already called his SAIC  in Dallas, Gordon Shanklin and told Shankiln to send Hosty over to the DPD to interrogate Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald  because Hosty had been "working with these people" ( and he knew how the frame was supposed to be set up)   
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2019, 04:21:45 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.  You are erroneously and stupidly implying that because Oswald was asked later about his use of an alias that they didn't know his real name.  That is simply demonstrably false. 

Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of card it was?
Mr. WALKER. Just an identification card. I don't recall what it was.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And I told him, "That is your real name, isn't it?"
Mr. BELIN. He - had he earlier told you his name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALKER. I believe he had.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WALKER. And he said, "No, that is not my real name."

FBI agent James Hosty wrote: Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name.

One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald  ( Shortly after 2 o'clock)

Page 16  Assignment : Oswald   Written by FBI Agent James Hosty.... ( You may recall that Hosty was in the thick of it)

TIME 2:15 P. M.    A hand clutched my elbow. I spun, Howe was in my face.  "They've just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they're booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff.   Officer's name was Tippit.

He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time. 

Let's see if we can get the chronology in order..... 

At about 2:05 Hoover calls His Dallas FBI office and tells SAIC Gordon Shanklin to send Hosty over to the DPD, to assist in the interrogation of Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald, Because Hosty had been "working with these people" ( LHO and ???)     Obviously Hoover had to have known the identity of the man who had been taken alive at the Texas theater prior to making the 2:05 call.   So even if Walker determined that the man's name was Lee Oswald .....J.Edgar Hoover knew it before Walker had asked Lee any questions.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 04:36:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.

Again, how do you know this this occurred "at that time"?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 07, 2019, 05:15:11 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest.  He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.  He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.

 Oswald had ten IDs in his own name upon arrest. 

Really?  TEN  ID's...   List them.....

He was immediately identified by Bill Shelley as LHO when he was brought in at around 2PM.

Please provide the tape recording in which Shelley says anything at the time Lee is brought into the police station....Photos show Shelley just sitting there like a toad in the sun, and saying nothing to anybody.

He arrived at the DPD at 2PM or just a couple minutes later.  Oswald admits his identity to CT Walker at that time.

Thank you for exaggerating ( aka lying) Walker didn't immediately ask Lee to identify himself.... He allegedly searched through Lee's Wallet and claimed he found ID's with different names on them ...and THAT'S when he asked Lee to identify himself....  It was probably around 2:15 at that time.....And J.Edgar Hoover had already called his SAIC  in Dallas, Gordon Shanklin and told Shankiln to send Hosty over to the DPD to interrogate Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald  because Hosty had been "working with these people" ( and he knew how the frame was supposed to be set up)

Whew.  So much nonsense and falsehoods in one short post.  Here is the list of the contents of Oswald's wallet:  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf


The rest of your rambling nonsense is based on a false premise.  The sequence of events is that Oswald is identified (he has multiple IDs in his name, a co-worker confirms his identity, and Oswald confirms his name to CT Walker), an agent calls the Dallas FBI with that information ("shortly after 2"), Hosty recognizes Oswald's name, Dallas FBI then "immediately" inform FBI HQ of the suspect's name and that they have a file on him.  Hosty, as the agent in charge of Oswald's file, is then understandably dispatched to attend his interrogation.  There is no mystery there. 

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Whew.  So much nonsense and falsehoods in one short post.  Here is the list of the contents of Oswald's wallet:  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf

I only count 9.  Which of his 5 wallets was that though?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2019, 07:56:33 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Whew.  So much nonsense and falsehoods in one short post.  Here is the list of the contents of Oswald's wallet:  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf


The rest of your rambling nonsense is based on a false premise.  The sequence of events is that Oswald is identified (he has multiple IDs in his name, a co-worker confirms his identity, and Oswald confirms his name to CT Walker), an agent calls the Dallas FBI with that information ("shortly after 2"), Hosty recognizes Oswald's name, Dallas FBI then "immediately" inform FBI HQ of the suspect's name and that they have a file on him.  Hosty, as the agent in charge of Oswald's file, is then understandably dispatched to attend his interrogation.  There is no mystery there.

Errrr.... Mr "Smith"....Perhaps you should take a refresher course in elementary arithmetic....basic counting.....Because either you can't count ...or you're a liar....

This list shows Seven ( 7 ) ID cards that have the name Lee Oswald ( or the initials LH Oswald)  written on them.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf

The sequence of events is that Oswald is identified (he has multiple IDs in his name, a co-worker confirms his identity, and Oswald confirms his name to CT Walker), an agent calls the Dallas FBI with that information ("shortly after 2"), Hosty recognizes Oswald's name, Dallas FBI then "immediately" inform FBI HQ of the suspect's name and that they have a file on him.  Hosty, as the agent in charge of Oswald's file, is then understandably dispatched to attend his interrogation.

On page 16 of the book  Assignment : Oswald  Written by FBI Agent James Hosty.... ( You may recall that Hosty was in the thick of it)

Hosty wrote....TIME 2:15 P. M.    "A hand clutched my elbow. I spun, Howe was in my face.  "They've just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they're booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff.   Officer's name was Tippit."   Hosty said that Shanklin was still on on the phone with Alan Belmont at FBI Headquarters in Washington DC. who had told Shanklin that Oswald had been arrested by the DPD, and Shanklin was ordered to send HOSTY over to the DPD.

Since Howe told Hosty that Oswald had been arrested for shooting JD Tippit ( which was NOT under FBI jurisdiction)  that information had to have been received by Shanklin in Dallas from FBI headquarters in Wash DC at no later than 2:10 and about five minutes prior to Howe telling Hosty that Lee Oswald had been arrested. 

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 07, 2019, 08:43:43 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Errrr.... Mr "Smith"....Perhaps you should take a refresher course in elementary arithmetic....basic counting.....Because either you can't count ...or you're a liar....

This list shows Seven ( 7 ) ID cards that have the name Lee Oswald ( or the initials LH Oswald)  written on them.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf



Wrong again.  How do you get seven from that list?  There are nine IDs in Oswald's name on that list (#1-5, 8-9, and 14-15).  My recollection from Dale Myers' book is that there were ten.  I'll take a look again to confirm but does it really matter whether Oswald had nine or ten IDs in his own name for purposes of the DPD confirming his identity?  Oswald had multiple IDs in his own name upon arrest.  His co-workers were also present when Oswald was brought in and Shelley confirmed his identity as LHO at time.  In addition, Oswald confirmed his identity to CT Walker.  As a result, his identity was quickly ascertained. 

The only possible source of any confusion are the two IDs in the Hidell name.  But many CTers dispute those as being his - right?  They contend these were planted by nefarious conspirators and the DPD had to be complicit in that frame up since they controlled the evidence/arrest wallet in which they were found.  So if the Hidell IDs were planted in Oswald's arrest wallet taken from his pocket, as some CTers fantasize, the DPD would have no reason to be confused about his actual identity.  Oswald was the guy they were framing if they planted the Hidell IDs on him. Are you acknowledging that Oswald used the Hidell alias and that the fake Hidell IDs in his wallet belonged to him and were not planted?  The same alias used to buy the MC rifle.  The alias he denied any knowledge of.  I wonder why he would do that?  Interesting. 
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2019, 08:57:36 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Wrong again.  How do you get seven from that list?  There are nine IDs in Oswald's name on that list (#1-5, 8-9, and 14-15).  My recollection from Dale Myers' book is that there were ten.  I'll take a look again to confirm but does it really matter whether Oswald had nine or ten IDs in his own name for purposes of the DPD confirming his identity?  Oswald had multiple IDs in his own name upon arrest.  His co-workers were also present when Oswald was brought in and Shelley confirmed his identity as LHO at time.  In addition, Oswald confirmed his identity to CT Walker.  As a result, his identity was quickly ascertained. 

The only possible source of any confusion are the two IDs in the Hidell name.  But many CTers dispute those as being his - right?  They contend these were planted by nefarious conspirators and the DPD had to be complicit in that frame up since they controlled the evidence/arrest wallet in which they were found.  So if the Hidell IDs were planted in Oswald's arrest wallet taken from his pocket, as some CTers fantasize, the DPD would have no reason to be confused about his actual identity.  Oswald was the guy they were framing if they planted the Hidell IDs on him. Are you acknowledging that Oswald used the Hidell alias and that the fake Hidell IDs in his wallet belonged to him and were not planted?  The same alias used to buy the MC rifle.  The alias he denied any knowledge of.  I wonder why he would do that?  Interesting.

does it really matter whether Oswald had nine or ten IDs in his own name for purposes of the DPD confirming his identity?

You're the one who posted the diversion ......Because the crux of my post has nothing to do with how many Id's may have been in Lee's wallet....

My post was focused on HOW did FBI headquarters in Washington DC  know the identity of the man who had been dragged from the theater BEFORE the Dallas police knew his identity???
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 08:58:56 PM
"Richard" --

a) When did anybody in the police ever say anything on 11/22 about being confused about his identity?

b) How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?  Because 2 days later, Fritz had some photos of things that were not in a wallet?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 07, 2019, 09:54:54 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Richard" --

a) When did anybody in the police ever say anything on 11/22 about being confused about his identity?

b) How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?  Because 2 days later, Fritz had some photos of things that were not in a wallet?

How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?  Because 2 days later, Fritz had some photos of things that were not in a wallet?

Mr "Smith" is attempting to employ the list of ID's in Lee's wallet that was reported by FBI Agent Manning C. Clements on Saturday the 23rd of November. ( see WR page 614)

We have no way of knowing which ID's were in Lee's wallet at the time of his arrest.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 08, 2019, 01:31:30 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?  Because 2 days later, Fritz had some photos of things that were not in a wallet?

Mr "Smith" is attempting to employ the list of ID's in Lee's wallet that was reported by FBI Agent Manning C. Clements on Saturday the 23rd of November. ( see WR page 614)

We have no way of knowing which ID's were in Lee's wallet at the time of his arrest.

As that report clearly states, the list reflects the items contained in the wallet of Lee Harvey Oswald "at the time of his arrest, November 22, 1963."  I'm not sure why Dishonest John is babbling about other wallets or that the photographs of the items were sent to the FBI on Nov. 24.  What difference does that make?  The items from Oswald's arrest wallet were removed and photographed.  Those photographs were sent to the FBI two days later.  How does that cast any doubt on the contents of the wallet?  How else could this be documented?  Absent a time machine, what you and Dishonest John are suggesting is that nothing could ever be proven because it can be rebutted by the mere baseless and unsupported allegation that it could have been faked.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf


 

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 08, 2019, 02:02:11 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As that report clearly states, the list reflects the items contained in the wallet of Lee Harvey Oswald "at the time of his arrest, November 22, 1963."  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1986.pdf
All that stuff and no money? Nothing torn in half?

 
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2019, 03:11:03 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
All that stuff and no money? Nothing torn in half?

There was a KEY......
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2019, 06:36:39 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Richard" --

a) When did anybody in the police ever say anything on 11/22 about being confused about his identity?

b) How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?  Because 2 days later, Fritz had some photos of things that were not in a wallet?

 How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?

Excellent question.....  And personally I seriously doubt that the Hidell ID was in Lee's wallet on Friday 11/22/63......
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 08, 2019, 09:36:03 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How do you know the Hidell ID was ever in Oswald's arrest wallet?

Excellent question.....  And personally I seriously doubt that the Hidell ID was in Lee's wallet on Friday 11/22/63......

LOL.  The Hidell IDs form the basis of your OP premise that the DPD would have been delayed in determining Oswald's identity.  And therefore could have not have provided his name to Hoover/FBI prior to Hoover making reference to him.  Whew.  If the Hidell IDs were not in the wallet, then there would be no reason for the DPD not know Oswald's identity from the time they checked his wallet just after his arrest at 1:50.  So you have to make a decision here - either the Hidell IDs were in the wallet (creating some ambiguity/delay as to his identity or they were not in which case there would no delay in identifying the suspect and providing that info to Hoover).

There is no doubt, however, that the Hidell IDs were in the wallet.  They are listed on the FBI report as items taken from his arrest wallet on Nov. 22.  In addition, there is the confirmation of those in the car who checked Oswald's wallet.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2019, 09:57:58 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
LOL.  The Hidell IDs form the basis of your OP premise that the DPD would have been delayed in determining Oswald's identity.  And therefore could have not have provided his name to Hoover/FBI prior to Hoover making reference to him.  Whew.  If the Hidell IDs were not in the wallet, then there would be no reason for the DPD not know Oswald's identity from the time they checked his wallet just after his arrest at 1:50.  So you have to make a decision here - either the Hidell IDs were in the wallet (creating some ambiguity/delay as to his identity or they were not in which case there would no delay in identifying the suspect and providing that info to Hoover).

There is no doubt, however, that the Hidell IDs were in the wallet.  They are listed on the FBI report as items taken from his arrest wallet on Nov. 22.  In addition, there is the confirmation of those in the car who checked Oswald's wallet.

 The Hidell IDs form the basis of your OP premise that the DPD would have been delayed in determining Oswald's identity.

No, it does not..... I clearly said that Hoover at FBI headquarters in Wash. DC knew the identity of the man that the Dallas Police dragged from the Texas Theater before the police had established his identity.    I did say that Fritz asked him if he used an alias ....Fritz asked Lee about the AJ Hidell name on SATURDAY  11/23/63

If the Hidell card had been in Lee's wallet on Friday 11/22/63 Fritz would have asked about it because he did ask Lee if he used the name OH LEE......AND according to the FBI memo of James Bookhout for Saturday November 23rd ...

...quote...." Oswald declined to explain his possession of a photograph of a selective service card in the name of ALEK JAMES HIDELL"...unquote

So the first appearance of the name Hidell was on Saturday....  And Bookhout described the item as a PHOTOGRAPH of a selective service card.... And even a dimwit would know that a PHOTOGRAPH of a Selective service card is NOT an ID card anymore than a PHOTOGRAPH of a hundred dollar bill is legal tender.

Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 09, 2019, 03:51:24 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Hidell IDs form the basis of your OP premise that the DPD would have been delayed in determining Oswald's identity.

No, it does not..... I clearly said that Hoover at FBI headquarters in Wash. DC knew the identity of the man that the Dallas Police dragged from the Texas Theater before the police had established his identity.    I did say that Fritz asked him if he used an alias ....Fritz asked Lee about the AJ Hidell name on SATURDAY  11/23/63

If the Hidell card had been in Lee's wallet on Friday 11/22/63 Fritz would have asked about it because he did ask Lee if he used the name OH LEE......AND according to the FBI memo of James Bookhout for Saturday November 23rd ...

...quote...." Oswald declined to explain his possession of a photograph of a selective service card in the name of ALEK JAMES HIDELL"...unquote

So the first appearance of the name Hidell was on Saturday....  And Bookhout described the item as a PHOTOGRAPH of a selective service card.... And even a dimwit would know that a PHOTOGRAPH of a Selective service card is NOT an ID card anymore than a PHOTOGRAPH of a hundred dollar bill is legal tender.

The question is:....   How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater BEFORE the police had determined his identity?
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 10, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The question is:....   How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater BEFORE the police had determined his identity?

He didn't.  Again, this is a false premise that you have failed to prove.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Richard Smith on February 10, 2019, 04:39:47 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Hidell IDs form the basis of your OP premise that the DPD would have been delayed in determining Oswald's identity.

No, it does not..... I clearly said that Hoover at FBI headquarters in Wash. DC knew the identity of the man that the Dallas Police dragged from the Texas Theater before the police had established his identity.    I did say that Fritz asked him if he used an alias ....Fritz asked Lee about the AJ Hidell name on SATURDAY  11/23/63

If the Hidell card had been in Lee's wallet on Friday 11/22/63 Fritz would have asked about it because he did ask Lee if he used the name OH LEE......AND according to the FBI memo of James Bookhout for Saturday November 23rd ...

...quote...." Oswald declined to explain his possession of a photograph of a selective service card in the name of ALEK JAMES HIDELL"...unquote

So the first appearance of the name Hidell was on Saturday....  And Bookhout described the item as a PHOTOGRAPH of a selective service card.... And even a dimwit would know that a PHOTOGRAPH of a Selective service card is NOT an ID card anymore than a PHOTOGRAPH of a hundred dollar bill is legal tender.

Whew.  Completely incoherent nonsense.  Try this.  If Oswald did not have the Hidell IDs in his wallet upon arrest, his only IDs would have been those in the name of LHO.  Right?  As a result, there would have been no possible confusion or ambiguity about his identity as of the moment the DPD examined the contents of his wallet in the car just after his arrest at about 1:50PM.  As a result, unless you can show that Hoover knew Oswald's identity prior to 1:50PM, then there is no basis to claim that Hoover had advanced knowledge of Oswald's identity.  Without the Hidell IDs in Oswald's wallet, it is impossible to make any such claim.  Previously, you had suggested that it took the DPD until 2:30PM or later to confirm Oswald's identity and that Hoover had mentioned his name prior to this.  That is erroneous as well, but if you are now contending there was no Hidell ID in Oswald's wallet, then your entire premise is DOA because the DPD would have confirmed his identity at about 1:50.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 10, 2019, 05:42:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
At the time they swarmed the Texas Theater, there was no reason to suspect that this man had assassinated the president.

There wasn't even any reason to suspect that this man had shot Tippit.

At the time they swarmed the Texas Theater, there was no reason to suspect that this man had assassinated the president.

There wasn't even any reason to suspect that this man had shot Tippit.

Excellent point!....But it's obvious that the cops were determined that they were going to take Oswald....They knew that Oswald was their man...

You may recall that the police dismissed others because they weren't the man....  Recall the man who dashed into the Library....His actions were far more suspicious than Lee Oswald but they dismissed him ....and there were a couple of incudents near the TSBD in which the cops simply released the suspect .   But At the theater they grabbed Lee Oswald who was simply sitting in the theater and waiting for the movie to begin.
Title: Re: How'd He Do That?
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 12, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As that report clearly states, the list reflects the items contained in the wallet of Lee Harvey Oswald "at the time of his arrest, November 22, 1963."

Well, I guess if it's in an FBI report from 2 days later, written by a guy who didn't examine a wallet, then it must be true.

 ::)