JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Eddie Simmonds on January 22, 2019, 10:30:57 PM

Title: Headshot bullet
Post by: Eddie Simmonds on January 22, 2019, 10:30:57 PM
Was the headshot bullet found?
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Louis Earl on January 22, 2019, 11:51:28 PM
Yes and no.  It disintegrated upon impact.  Some fragments were found in the limo and some very small pieces are visible in the XRays of JFK's head.  I don't know the weight of those pieces but it's safe to say that not "all" of the bullet was recovered. 
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Anthony Clayden on January 23, 2019, 03:26:08 AM
It is one of the oddities that two bullets (presumably of the same make and fired from the same gun) had such different outcomes, furthermore the bullet that impacted at a greater distance (and therefore slightly slower velocity on impact) is demolished and the other is almost pristine.

Of course the response is that a direct skull impact had a much greater impact than multiple soft tissue impact.

I have seen videos that show how the magic bullet travelled and may have been largely undamaged.
I have seen a video of the head shot bullet causing the head damage.

Has anyone done a video that simultaneously, covers the magic bullet path/lack of damage and the disintegration of the head impact bullet?
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Jerry Freeman on January 23, 2019, 03:41:26 AM
It seems to me [has for years] that JFK was shot twice in the head simultaneously. Based on my study of the Zapruder film, and autopsy pictures... a shot from the rear throws his head forward and a shot from the right ahead throws him back and to the left instantly afterwards.
Based on what I've read, there was no interest by the authorities in locating any bullets that struck Kennedy and remained inside him.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Gary Craig on January 23, 2019, 05:33:49 AM
It seems to me [has for years] that JFK was shot twice in the head simultaneously. Based on my study of the Zapruder film, and autopsy pictures... a shot from the rear throws his head forward and a shot from the right ahead throws him back and to the left instantly afterwards.
Based on what I've read, there was no interest by the authorities in locating any bullets that struck Kennedy and remained inside him.

Witnesses close to JFK's limo at Z-313 thought he was hit in the side of the head.

The autopsy doctors, who held his skull in their hands, and the WC said the entrance wound was slightly to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance (EOP). The small bump on lower back of the skull.

The Clark Panel, the Rockefeller Commission and the HSCA said the autopsy doctors got it wrong. They put the entrance wound four inches higher on the cowlick. Largely based on a particle trail of a disintegrated projectile across the top part of JFK's skull.

The photos of the inside and outside of the entrance wound in the skull bone, taken at the autopsy, that depicted cratering and the direction and location of the EOP entrance wound are not among the autopsy materials in the Archive.

Critics had pointed out, before the Clark Panel was formed and changed the location of the head wound to the cowlick, that the EOP entrance didn't work with the official narrative of a shot from the 6th floor SE corner TSBD.

Cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 23, 2019, 03:33:02 PM
Witnesses close to JFK's limo at Z-313 thought he was hit in the side of the head.

The autopsy doctors, who held his skull in their hands, and the WC said the entrance wound was slightly to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance (EOP). The small bump on lower back of the skull.

The Clark Panel, the Rockefeller Commission and the HSCA said the autopsy doctors got it wrong. They put the entrance wound four inches higher on the cowlick. Largely based on a particle trail of a disintegrated projectile across the top part of JFK's skull.

The photos of the inside and outside of the entrance wound in the skull bone, taken at the autopsy, that depicted cratering and the direction and location of the EOP entrance wound are not among the autopsy materials in the Archive.

Critics had pointed out, before the Clark Panel was formed and changed the location of the head wound to the cowlick, that the EOP entrance didn't work with the official narrative of a shot from the 6th floor SE corner TSBD.

Cognitive dissonance.

       The relocation of the head wound due to it not meeting the 6th Floor downward angle narrative = a carbon copy of Gerry Ford moving the JFK Back Wound UP to the base of the neck. 
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 23, 2019, 04:26:06 PM
It seems to me [has for years] that JFK was shot twice in the head simultaneously. Based on my study of the Zapruder film, and autopsy pictures... a shot from the rear throws his head forward and a shot from the right ahead throws him back and to the left instantly afterwards.
Based on what I've read, there was no interest by the authorities in locating any bullets that struck Kennedy and remained inside him.

Jerry, I believe what you perceive as two shots might be the results of a single bullet....The tangential strike on JFK's right temple and the much greater impact on the interior of his skull....
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 23, 2019, 04:45:06 PM
Jerry, I believe what you perceive as two shots might be the results of a single bullet....The tangential strike on JFK's right temple and the much greater impact on the interior of his skull....

    Or possibly the result of being struck with the ammo of an AR-15.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 23, 2019, 05:03:07 PM
    Or possibly the result of being struck with the ammo of an AR-15.

That's possible....  But it seems more likely that JFK was hit by a custom bullet.....( not custom caliber)

It seems to me that the bullet disintegrated and dissolved inside JFK's skull.   One substance that immediately comes to mind is mercury...however a projectile filled with water might also have caused the massive damage.....
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Gary Craig on January 23, 2019, 05:22:47 PM
       The relocation of the head wound due to it not meeting the 6th Floor downward angle narrative = a carbon copy of Gerry Ford moving the JFK Back Wound UP to the base of the neck.

In both instances photographs taken at the autopsy showing the location of the wounds and indicating the direction the projectiles were traveling vanished.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 23, 2019, 05:24:45 PM
That's possible....  But it seems more likely that JFK was hit by a custom bullet.....( not custom caliber)

It seems to me that the bullet disintegrated and dissolved inside JFK's skull.   One substance that immediately comes to mind is mercury...however a projectile filled with water might also have caused the massive damage.....

     I do Not believe the Hickey AR-15 issue has thoroughly been researched and discussed in general or specifically on this Forum.  The AR-15 is usually immediately dismissed as out-of-hand. The discussion on another thread on this forum regarding the smell of gun powder inside Dealey Plaza would easily be explained by the AR-15 having been fired and then put in motion inside the Queen Mary as it traveled down Elm St and then onto the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp. The only other option explaining gun powder being smelled: (1) around the TSBD, (2) down Elm St, (3) in the parking lot behind the picket fence, and (4) on  the railroad bridge running across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp = Many shooters. I believe that the gun powder odor being smelled by the DPD cop positioned on that railroad bridge, (which is a good distance from Dealey Plaza), would point toward the gunpowder odor following along with the JFK Motorcade = The Queen Mary. The Hickey issue with the gunpowder odor also in mind merits being completely fleshed out.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 23, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
     I do Not believe the Hickey AR-15 issue has thoroughly been researched and discussed in general or specifically on this Forum.  The AR-15 is usually immediately dismissed as out-of-hand. The discussion on another thread on this forum regarding the smell of gun powder inside Dealey Plaza would easily be explained by the AR-15 having been fired and then put in motion inside the Queen Mary as it traveled down Elm St and then onto the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp. The only other option explaining gun powder being smelled: (1) around the TSBD, (2) down Elm St, (3) in the parking lot behind the picket fence, and (4) on  the railroad bridge running across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp = Many shooters. I believe that the gun powder odor being smelled by the DPD cop positioned on that railroad bridge, (which is a good distance from Dealey Plaza), would point toward the gunpowder odor following along with the JFK Motorcade = The Queen Mary. The Hickey issue with the gunpowder odor also in mind merits being completely fleshed out.

Nobody on Elm street would have smelled the gunsmoke if the shots had been fired from six stories up and 150 feet to the rear of the Lincoln....
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 23, 2019, 10:43:39 PM
Nobody on Elm street would have smelled the gunsmoke if the shots had been fired from six stories up and 150 feet to the rear of the Lincoln....

      Based on the direction of the wind, smelling gunsmoke down on Elm St would Not happen. Sen Yarborough smelling gunsmoke while traveling down Elm inside LBJ's Car, (directly behind the Queen Mary) is compelling.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Andrew Mason on January 24, 2019, 01:18:42 PM
      Based on the direction of the wind, smelling gunsmoke down on Elm St would Not happen. Sen Yarborough smelling gunsmoke while traveling down Elm inside LBJ's Car, (directly behind the Queen Mary) is compelling.
The barrel gases were escaping the muzzle at 1000 fps in the direction of "down Elm St.".  The wind was a minor factor compared to that.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 24, 2019, 03:12:41 PM
The barrel gases were escaping the muzzle at 1000 fps in the direction of "down Elm St.".  The wind was a minor factor compared to that.

     When 3 shots are fired from the TSBD into-the-wind from a height of 6 stories, and a gunpowder odor is smelled all the way down Elm St close to the Triple Underpass, in addition to being smelled at the Railroad Overpass which extends across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp, that gunpowder odor is Not emanating from the TSBD.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Steve Logan on January 24, 2019, 05:08:04 PM
     I do Not believe the Hickey AR-15 issue has thoroughly been researched and discussed in general or specifically on this Forum.  The AR-15 is usually immediately dismissed as out-of-hand. The discussion on another thread on this forum regarding the smell of gun powder inside Dealey Plaza would easily be explained by the AR-15 having been fired and then put in motion inside the Queen Mary as it traveled down Elm St and then onto the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp. The only other option explaining gun powder being smelled: (1) around the TSBD, (2) down Elm St, (3) in the parking lot behind the picket fence, and (4) on  the railroad bridge running across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp = Many shooters. I believe that the gun powder odor being smelled by the DPD cop positioned on that railroad bridge, (which is a good distance from Dealey Plaza), would point toward the gunpowder odor following along with the JFK Motorcade = The Queen Mary. The Hickey issue with the gunpowder odor also in mind merits being completely fleshed out.
There's been a book.
There's been lawsuits.
There's been a movie.
?
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 24, 2019, 07:37:50 PM
There's been a book.
There's been lawsuits.
There's been a movie.
?

    Not sure how you would consider "A Book", "A Movie", or "Lawsuits" as qualifying as DISCUSSION on the AR-15 issue. The Book and Movie are 1 sided Presentations, while the law suits pertain to The Law.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Andrew Mason on January 24, 2019, 11:42:25 PM
     When 3 shots are fired from the TSBD into-the-wind from a height of 6 stories, and a gunpowder odor is smelled all the way down Elm St close to the Triple Underpass, in addition to being smelled at the Railroad Overpass which extends across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp, that gunpowder odor is Not emanating from the TSBD.
You may be right. What do you base that on?  Many people on Elm St. said they smelled a gunpowder smell.  They were some distance from any gun, regardless of where you think it was.  Barrel gases are moving pretty fast when they leave the muzzle and they are rather concentrated.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 25, 2019, 12:07:46 AM
You may be right. What do you base that on?  Many people on Elm St. said they smelled a gunpowder smell.  They were some distance from any gun, regardless of where you think it was.  Barrel gases are moving pretty fast when they leave the muzzle and they are rather concentrated.

Barrel gases are moving pretty fast when they leave the muzzle and they are rather concentrated.

Yes you're right...BUT they are hot gases.......They cool and shrink and dissipate rapidly and they are not a solid so they don't travel far ......
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 25, 2019, 12:43:19 AM
You may be right. What do you base that on?  Many people on Elm St. said they smelled a gunpowder smell.  They were some distance from any gun, regardless of where you think it was.  Barrel gases are moving pretty fast when they leave the muzzle and they are rather concentrated.

     How far were these people from the AR-15 that was inside the Queen Mary as it traveled down Elm St? Plus, SA Hickey had the AR-15 raised UP in the back seat while the car was in Motion.
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 25, 2019, 01:25:09 AM
     How far were these people from the AR-15 that was inside the Queen Mary as it traveled down Elm St? Plus, SA Hickey had the AR-15 raised UP in the back seat while the car was in Motion.

SA Hickey had the AR-15 raised UP in the back seat while the car was in Motion.

Yes, you're right,  Hickey pulled out the AR AFTER the shooting....  There isn't a photo that shows Hickey with a weapon prior to, or during the shooting....And no witness reported seeing Hickey with a weapon during the shooting...  The muzzle blast from an AR-15 would definitely have drew some attention....
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Royell Storing on January 25, 2019, 04:59:19 AM
SA Hickey had the AR-15 raised UP in the back seat while the car was in Motion.

Yes, you're right,  Hickey pulled out the AR AFTER the shooting....  There isn't a photo that shows Hickey with a weapon prior to, or during the shooting....And no witness reported seeing Hickey with a weapon during the shooting...  The muzzle blast from an AR-15 would definitely have drew some attention....

      With regard to the AR-15 muzzle blast Not drawing attention, there are many things that also were allegedly in motion that also failed to draw anyone's attention and were Not captured on Any of the Images taken before, during, or immediately following the Kill Shot.  #1 would be SA Lem Johns jumping out of the LBJ SS Follow-Up Car and running down Elm St toward the LBJ Convertible. Not a single eyewitness on Elm St saw the alleged action of Lem Johns jumping out of a car in the JFK Motorcade and then running down the middle of Elm St. This extended action also is Not on 1 single assassination Image taken that day. There was only 1 car separating/between The Queen Mary which carried the AR-15 and the LBJ SS Follow-Up Car carrying SA Lem Johns. If eyewitnesses could miss seeing Lem Johns doing his thing in the middle of Elm St, they could also easily miss an AR-15 muzzle blast INSIDE the confines of the Queen Mary. 
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Susan Wilde on January 27, 2019, 08:42:41 AM
Nobody on Elm street would have smelled the gunsmoke if the shots had been fired from six stories up and 150 feet to the rear of the Lincoln....

Agree  entirely,  Walt.  In addition, several films and photos during the assassination document that the wind was blowing northeastward;  blowing  from  the triple overpass,  towards  the Depository.  (and the 12:30 P.M. Dallas weather documented at, IIRC,  Love Field,  also documents the northeastward blowing wind)
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Jon Banks on January 27, 2019, 02:11:15 PM
Based on trajectory and the disintegration of the bullet, Iíve never been convinced that the head-shot originated from the Book Depository.

Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Dale Nason on January 27, 2019, 10:48:15 PM
I suspect that the " fatal shot" was fairly close range and high velocity with a fragmenting bullet. IMO....it was from the right front. Previous shots had been fired. One had hit. The other possibly missed. And....another, or possibly two had hit Connelly. 5 shots. Coming from multiple locations. My best guess. I'm not into the " conspiracy " thing. But, I think the obvious is the obvious. There was more than one shooter. At least two. Maybe 3?
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Andrew Mason on January 28, 2019, 06:59:37 PM
Agree  entirely,  Walt.  In addition, several films and photos during the assassination document that the wind was blowing northeastward;  blowing  from  the triple overpass,  towards  the Depository.  (and the 12:30 P.M. Dallas weather documented at, IIRC,  Love Field,  also documents the northeastward blowing wind)
Wouldn't you have to know how far and how fast gunsmoke (muzzle gases) travel if there was no wind?  And then account for how the wind would affect that? The muzzle gases explode out of the end of the barrel traveling at up to 2200 feet per second.  Elm St. was only 60 feet away. 
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 28, 2019, 08:15:25 PM
I suspect that the " fatal shot" was fairly close range and high velocity with a fragmenting bullet. IMO....it was from the right front. Previous shots had been fired. One had hit. The other possibly missed. And....another, or possibly two had hit Connelly. 5 shots. Coming from multiple locations. My best guess. I'm not into the " conspiracy " thing. But, I think the obvious is the obvious. There was more than one shooter. At least two. Maybe 3?

I'm not into the " conspiracy " thing. But, I think the obvious is the obvious. There was more than one shooter. At least two. Maybe 3?

Your "problem", Mr Nason is;.....You're too honest and intelligent.....  Your intellect tells you that the official tale is BS....and your honesty compels you to reject that BS 
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Jerry Freeman on February 08, 2019, 01:49:30 AM
The Warren Commission sure swallowed a team of horses when they confirmed Oswald's sniper ability especially with the junk gun they were given. If he did keep a rifle...[Based only on Marina's say so]  Where did he practice? When did he go shooting? How did he get there? Where was his ammo? His gun cleaning supplies?  The HSCA merely echoed the WC conclusions [the BY picture...the 'palm print' the 'paper bag'] ..without any further logical supporting evidence mentioned above. Real experts agree ---------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6761&relPageId=71&search=oswald_marksman
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Walt Cakebread on February 08, 2019, 07:21:45 PM
The Warren Commission sure swallowed a team of horses when they confirmed Oswald's sniper ability especially with the junk gun they were given. If he did keep a rifle...[Based only on Marina's say so]  Where did he practice? When did he go shooting? How did he get there? Where was his ammo? His gun cleaning supplies?  The HSCA merely echoed the WC conclusions [the BY picture...the 'palm print' the 'paper bag'] ..without any further logical supporting evidence mentioned above. Real experts agree ---------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6761&relPageId=71&search=oswald_marksman

HSCA merely echoed the WC conclusions

THe HSCA was nothing more than a continuation of the BS tale that LBJ's Special Select Blue Ribbon committee dumped on us pissants in September of 1964.

A lot of information had popped to the surface after the Warren Report was released, and  our ol Unca Sammy knew that we pissants couldn't be trusted with the truth.....  So he gave us the HSCA .....
Title: Re: Headshot bullet
Post by: Jack Trojan on February 08, 2019, 08:56:39 PM
The Warren Commission sure swallowed a team of horses when they confirmed Oswald's sniper ability especially with the junk gun they were given. If he did keep a rifle...[Based only on Marina's say so]  Where did he practice? When did he go shooting? How did he get there? Where was his ammo? His gun cleaning supplies?  The HSCA merely echoed the WC conclusions [the BY picture...the 'palm print' the 'paper bag'] ..without any further logical supporting evidence mentioned above. Real experts agree ---------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6761&relPageId=71&search=oswald_marksman

Exactly. Any marksman will tell you that you must constantly practice with a familiar weapon and most importantly, with a scope that has been "sighted-in". So when did Oswald do any of that? Marina said that he went out one time and was target shooting at leaves. LOL. Then why didn't he sight-in the scope during his leaf hunt?

Are we expected to believe that Oswald used an untested rifle that he had reassembled in the TSBD, which included a useless scope and after the 1st shot thru the scope missed he made an executive decision to switch to the iron sights and scored a 2 for 3, including a dead center head shot, that disintegrated in JFK's head, all in under 8 seconds, with a piece of crap rifle?

You just have ask yourself, if there was an unpracticed marksman THAT skilled, then why did he use a crap rifle with a wonky scope and why didn't he take the shot when JFK's limo turned onto Elm when he was a sitting duck? Oswald could have even used the wonky scope and scored at 60 feet. Instead he waited 8+ secs to take the 1st shot. How come?

ETA: where were Oswald's freaking fingerprints on the rifle that he practically made love to? Or did Oswald not have fingerprints?