RFK Jnr has called for a new investigation
He told the Washington Post that once he saw the autopsy report, "I didn't feel it was something I could dismiss. I was disturbed that the wrong person might have been convicted of killing my father."
I guess he means the part where Dr. Thomas T. Noguchi concluded the fatal shot came at point blank range ... 1 or 2 inches away. And no one saw Sirhan get up close and in RFK's personal space.
*spoiler* Thane Eugene Cesar, did it.
To those conspiracy types at the ED Forum, this is a big deal. The very idea that Congress would even attempt to reopen and re-examine any of these cases is beyond absurd. Most of Congress, not unlike the American population today was not yet born during these events. They don?t care, again not unlike most Americans. So, a letter signed by main stream conspiracy nuts will go no place. Rightfully so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_PelosiSpeaker Pelosi currently can persuade any of her Dem caucus to vote as she suggests and is the second oldest speaker in history.:
Nancy Patricia Pelosi .....; born March 26, 1940)
The oldest Member to hold the office of Speaker of the House was Sam Rayburn of Texas, who was elected Speaker for the 10th and final time at age 78, in 1961. Speaker Rayburn passed away later that Congress, two months short of his 80th birthday.
Speaker of the House Fast Facts | US House of Representatives ...
https://history.house.gov/Institution/Firsts-Milestones/Speaker-Fast-Facts/
The 115th Congress is among the oldest in history | Quorum
https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congress-is-among-the-oldest-in-history/175/
Today, the average age of a Representative is 57 and the average of a Senator is 61. This prompted us to take a further look at those graying averages.
Noguchi is on record for saying "Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/6126892/Dr-Thomas-Noguchi-LA-coroner-confidential.html
"Even now, Noguchi is unsure what really happened. His professional instinct, he says, tells him that Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own. ?Based on the available information, I?m certain there was just one gunman, but I?m also aware that, like theories of the universe, things keep changing."
https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2019/01/kentucky-diocese-apologizes-after-videos-show-students-in-maga-hats-mocking-native-americans.html
....According to the "Indian Country Today" website, Phillips is an Omaha elder and Vietnam veteran who holds an annual ceremony honoring Native American veterans at Arlington National Cemetery.
"When I was there singing, I heard them saying 'Build that wall, build that wall,'" Phillips said, as he wiped away tears in a video posted on Instagram. "This is indigenous lands. We're not supposed to have walls here. We never did."
He said he wished the group would put their energy into "making this country really great."...
To those conspiracy types at the ED Forum, this is a big deal. The very idea that Congress would even attempt to reopen and re-examine any of these cases is beyond absurd. Most of Congress, not unlike the American population today was not yet born during these events. They don?t care, again not unlike most Americans. So, a letter signed by main stream conspiracy nuts will go no place. Rightfully so.
I think the newly sworn in House has its hands full, as far as investigations for this term. Reelection season begins in earnest in about 14 months,
so nothing non-contemporary will likely fit on their plates that is not already anticipated by relevant committee chairs.
Aside from that, Senate majority leader McConnell is in his mid 70's and has the power but no interest, and minority leader Schumer
might be interested but has no power to initiate any Senate committee investigation.
Speaker Pelosi currently can persuade any of her Dem caucus to vote as she suggests and is the second oldest speaker in history.:
Her father and her brother were Baltimore mayors. She is famously politically strategic. She was elected speaker this time on the first
vote, entirely by newly elected or reelected Democrats, not requiring Republican votes to attract the 220 votes of 434 seated members.
The newly elected in the House are younger and troublingly, too many blue dogs who will soon abandon her direction because the majority of them
come from districts Trump/Putin messaging "won" in 2016. So, Pelosi might persuade them to support such JFK/RFK/MLK reinvestigation in the
near term, but Pelosi avoids doing anything risking stupid and now is not the time to be distracted by debating such a proposal.
The Senate remains ossified..... Pence is scarier and is icing on the cake. The cake is the lessons learned from the failed actual impeachment Senate votes
attempting to oust Andrew Johnson who reached far to make an America of purely white race governance and Clinton, who only grew more popular
as the impeachment attempt ran its course.
There will be no impeachment if anyone chosen by Trump, oldest POTUS in US history, sits in the V.P. chair. Pelosi does not do stupid or senseless politics.
The Senate has not changed much in average age, but the new House average age has dropped almost ten years. Stats from last Congress.:
The Republican breitbart contingent postures that the Democrats are the Deep State conspiracy and Trump is not bashful pounding the conspiracy
drum if he feels it is useful to his breitbart wing. Ironically, if the House had not shifted this term to a Democratic majority, it might not have been as
difficult as it is now to propose reinvestigation if Trump, Ryan, McConnell, and the freedumb caucus were persuaded that it could be steered in ways
embarrassing to their Deep State bogeymen.... Weren't JFK, RFK, and MLK all Democrats likely rubbed out by lefties? Just persuade the breitbart hacks
to conjure up such drivel, and it becomes so.
Noguchi is on record for saying "Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/6126892/Dr-Thomas-Noguchi-LA-coroner-confidential.html
"Even now, Noguchi is unsure what really happened. His professional instinct, he says, tells him that Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own. ?Based on the available information, I?m certain there was just one gunman, but I?m also aware that, like theories of the universe, things keep changing."
Along with samples of blood, the internal organs were sent off for toxicology tests. Several hours after he had completed the autopsy, Noguchi received the toxicology report. The tests on the blood showed 8.0 mg per cent of chloral hydrate ? another sleeping pill ? while the liver tests revealed 13.0 mg per cent of pentobarbital (or Nembutal). Both of these were well above the fatal dose.
However, Noguchi admits he made a mistake at this point. The toxicology tests had only been performed on the blood and the liver ? not on the other internal organs. He should, he feels now, have insisted that all the organs were examined. ?I am sure that this could have cleared up a lot of the subsequent controversy, but I didn?t follow through as I should have.? As a junior member of staff, he says, he didn?t want to risk displeasing anyone.
At a press conference later that day, his boss, Dr Curphey, announced that Monroe had committed suicide. Noguchi did not disagree with his conclusion. None the less, he was sufficiently troubled by the oversight to go back to the toxicology lab a few weeks later and ask if they could test the other organs that he?d sent over. But when he did, he was told that the organs had already been disposed of as the case had been marked as closed.
?I think that was a great shame,? he says, speaking very deliberately. ?Not suspicious. I?m not saying that; it was a perfectly normal procedure. But still a shame.?
Even now, Noguchi is unsure what really happened. His professional instinct, he says, tells him that Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own. ?Based on the available information, I?m certain there was just one gunman, but I?m also aware that, like theories of the universe, things keep changing.?
The article you linked is fascinating. The editorial commentary inserts in each case this article covers cleverly steer the reader away from 'a conspiracy'. It doesn't go any further in revealing the background of several statements. This is something I've only really recently began to be careful of when reading articles in MSM. I guess living in the fake news era has better informed me to be much more cautious and cynical when reading articles.
For instance ... from the article re Marilyn Monroe's autopsy.
The editorial comment I've underlined and bolded, above, this is what fascinates me most. Presumably, Noguchi, made the point to the interviewer that he was a junior member of staff, a reason/excuse for his inability to perform his full duties? it doesn't get expanded upon!?!?! why not --- surely this is the most interesting fact during the whole article. Why did Noguchi risk displeasing, editorial comment inserts Noguchi didn't want to risk displeasing 'anyone' --- if he insisted that all the organs were examined? Who was pressuring Noguchi to conduct the autopsy a certain way? conduct the autopsy in a way that didn't actually fulfill his duties in examining every vital organ. Did Noguchi during this interview reveal who was displeased with Noguchi's attempts to conduct a thorough autopsy investigation? is there a full transcript of this interview?.
Would Noguchi allow 'anyone' to steer his autopsy had the deceased person on the slab been a random Joe Bloggs?. What type of pressure was being put upon Noguchi not to thoroughly investigate the death of Marilyn Monroe? These are the questions that any real journalist would surely be asking? Or does the Telegraph editorial not really care? This is why there's a market, even a need, for conspiracy genre when we've been spoon fed by the MSM bullcrap investigative journalism. Zero willingness to investigate/print truth.
Dr-Thomas-Noguchi's willingness to follow orders under pressure from higher ups obviously marked him out. His willingness to not conduct a full autopsy investigation into the death of Marilyn Monroe would have made him the perfect choice to then conduct an autopsy of RFK --- should his death need to be not fully investigated. Or am I missing something? You actually think this man is not just some helpful idiot in the plot(s)?
Dr-Thomas-Noguchi knows he was a participant in the cover up. Obviously he cannot say it was suspicious. He admits to being a junior member of staff, he didn?t want to risk displeasing anyone (in authority)
@ Dennis, You are simply quoting the editorial commentary of the Telegraph when you copy paste 'Even now, Noguchi is unsure what really happened. His professional instinct, he says, tells him that Sirhan Sirhan carried out the assassination on his own'
The text you copy and pasted from the article reads as follows. And is complete Telegraph editor commentary.
Are you even aware of what you copy and pasted? the significance of that first sentence? The Telegraph doesn't even seem to be concerned with it, so I doubt many of their readers cared (back in 2009).
Even now, Noguchi is unsure what really happened
Profoundly the point. All except the powers that be. Those people that were displeased with Noguchi. Who are the people that could have seen to it that the truth is brought forwards?. Why isn't journalist John Preston, of the Telegraph, concerned with finding out who pressured Noguchi and then printing those names in the article?.
[quote Tom Scully
BTW, Denis.... will your Orange occupiers "wall off" Derry?
Tom, I'm sure you're saying something extremely profound here but frankly, I haven't a clue what it is!! Are you under the impression I'm a Catholic from Ireland? Would you care to try again in Queens English or at least when sober?
Denis, not profound, merely attempted a pragmatic reply to the premise of the thread. I only assumed you are informed of the Irish backstop
issue which is symbolic of the consequence of the Putin influenced/assisted, Brexit vote result. I do not assume more awareness of your circumstances
than my assumption you reside somewhere in the UK.
JFK was assassinated because, contrary to what is emphasized by the haves, violence has been the historical norm to achieve a desired political outcome.
The English commonwealth and the U.S. are under attack by Putin's Russia and it is silly to discuss the possibility of U.S. legislative reinvestigation of
assassinations of JFK, RFK, or MLK. We in the U.S. no longer are reasonable enough to pursue fact finding because the weight of any evidence would
be marginalized to discredit it.
Racism and xenophobia are the dominant forces today as they were in the Dallas JFK had the misfortune of visiting in late 1963.
The European Union and a U.S. liberal immigration policy were meaningful enhancements while they lasted but they were not directly achieved
by violent means and did not last.
My mother's people migrated from Nazeing, Essex in 1632, my father's mother was born in Scotland (of Ayrshire and Midlothian parents), migrated
to New York in 1913 and married a US immigrant of Northumberland born parents of Southern Ireland origin who worked in Northumberland chemical plants because Irish were not locally regarded as suitable for employment in coal mining.
The good guys do not generally win, in the end. The Ed Forum posters and single issue CTs posting here should understand that the founding
fathers of the U.S., the Haganah of King David Hotel notoriety, and the IRA owed their success by resorting to violence. Hitler was not talked off
his perch.
Summing up, the forces resulting in Trump and Brexit and those who covered up the facts related to the three 1960s US assassinations are winning,
so far. Trump and Brexit are threats dwarfing threats stemming from 50 years old US assassinations.
Well stated Tom.
Outside another yellow moon
Has punched a hole in the nighttime, yes
I climb through the window and down the street
I'm shining like a new dime.....
- Tom Waits
Paul, glad to see you "get" it. BTW, I am in the preliminary planning stages of creating a site patterned after MF.org.
Would you be open at all to considering a collaboration?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FBIvaultJohnWilkesBooth1923_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FBIvaultJohnWilkesBooth1923_2of2.jpg)
Update: I was impressed that the FBI investigation of alleged presidential assassin JW Booth to the
extent I subjected myself just now to a two hour crash course on the Lincoln Assassination controversy, resulting in this new thread.:
Lincoln Assassination Status: a Still Open or Reopenable FBI Investigation?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1657.0.html
Denis, not profound, merely attempted a pragmatic reply to the premise of the thread. I only assumed you are informed of the Irish backstop
issue which is symbolic of the consequence of the Putin influenced/assisted, Brexit vote result. I do not assume more awareness of your circumstances
than my assumption you reside somewhere in the UK.
Well stated Tom.Paul: I assume that was tongue in cheek? Or that you are saying it was a well stated argument but not one you believe in? Certainly you don't think Trump and Putin and "their forces" have been covering up what happened to JFK in Dallas in 1963? Earl Warren and Putin?
Paul, glad to see you "get" it. BTW, I am in the preliminary planning stages of creating a site patterned after MF.org.
Would you be open at all to considering a collaboration?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FBIvaultJohnWilkesBooth1923_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FBIvaultJohnWilkesBooth1923_2of2.jpg)
Update: I was impressed that the FBI investigation of alleged presidential assassin JW Booth to the
extent I subjected myself just now to a two hour crash course on the Lincoln Assassination controversy, resulting in this new thread.:
Lincoln Assassination Status: a Still Open or Reopenable FBI Investigation?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1657.0.html
Explain in a message Tom. Thanks.
The controversies/questions still lingeringing over "what really happened" with regard to who was responsible for killing President Lincoln...(continued
below book page image)
Abraham Lincoln's Execution (https://books.google.com/books?id=bFI9CkR8LzgC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=neff+philadelphia+tannic+acid+invisible&source=bl&ots=2R59R98QZH&sig=ACfU3U0mD2Q-FcoQ2i6jFYcFhtXfAovpQQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU3b7TgIjgAhULd6wKHRFWA4wQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=neff%20philadelphia%20tannic%20acid%20invisible&f=false)
By Griffin, John Chandler (Book published in 2006 by South Carolina college professor. Image below describes aftermath of Neff's 1957 discovery)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JFKLincolnLCbakerNeff.jpg)
....indicate the deep seated concerns about the Assassination of JFK.....55 years on....are now extremely unlikely to ever be resolved among those
most concerned and troubled about what really happened, vs. official and MSM story lines.
Meanwwhile, there is a rapid, worldwide rise of authoritarianism. In the U.S. and in the U.K. there is a deep divide over what really happened with regard to
the Brexit and the 2016 US presidential votes. Our institutions cannot determine what really happened two years ago. Truth is elusive and the victors
write the history. I am not the elementary school student I was in 1963. We should be concentrating our attention on the degree of outside influences that
have dramatically set back the recent progress resulting in an open border between the UK and the Irish Republic and the European continent and
the election, two times, of America's first president not a caucasian male. We can also investigate and push back against the rise of an oligarchical class
and its political influence, worldwide.
Certainly we have the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time, but the present landscape outlined in the preceding paragraph comprise daunting challenges.
If by some miracle unimpeachable truth emerges pinpointing ultimate responsibility fot the assassinations of Lincoln, JFK, RFK, and MLK, and the institutions
presiding to consider the evidence are the Trump, Putin, post Merkel (she embraced Emma Lazarus's poem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus)), and post Brexit UK governments, will the main question be, if a tree falls in the forest but no one hears it fall....etc.?
We can honor them, at this point, by instilling their ideals in the present.
Paul: I assume that was tongue in cheek? Or that you are saying it was a well stated argument but not one you believe in? Certainly you don't think Trump and Putin and "their forces" have been covering up what happened to JFK in Dallas in 1963? Earl Warren and Putin?
Connecting events today, Brexit, Trump et cetera, to the events a half a century ago is nonsensical. It's projecting one's personal grievances today of Trump et al onto the shooting of JFK.
This, at bottom, is the main problem with the conspiracy believers: they are using the shooting of JFK as a vehicle to express their anger/dislike with people, e.g., LBJ or Hoover of "them", and institutions today. Or more accurately, projecting their dislike of people today BACK on events a half century ago.
The only hatred in Dallas in 1963 that led to JFK's assassination was the personal hatred of the world of one Lee Harvey Oswald. He hated the US, he hated JFK, and he wanted to strike back at those entities.
@Tom ... Your Brexit conspiracies trigger me. The linking of Brexit's coming to fruition (17m people voting for it) to Putin, specifically. I used to have long debates with my dad about the EU, or EC ... as it was then. He was youngish in 75, and he he participated in the first EVER referendum, for the people, to decide the direction this country will take. He voted Yes, to enter. He would go into great length about all the pros and cons he was subjected to in the media, just like we were bombarded with in the second referendum. In his later years the biggest gripe he's had with the EU was that he feels they've 'taking over' the country. Literally ruling us from offshore. That we're being ruled by unelected foreigners - which is mostly true. And he'd not signed onto this plan. Especially as the majority of those EU politicians ruling the parliament are extreme liberal-minded morons. One of the most interesting slogans for the Yes campaign I found when I decided to review all my dad told me about the first referendum was this one ... "Better to lose a little national sovereignty than a son or daughter". The proposition we'll be safer, no more wars! This was brought up a lot during the EC/EU 75 referendum, apparently. My dad might have missed that beauty, he obviously didn't notice he'd signed onto relieving parliament of its duties to the people.
Well the truth is we might not have had wars with our neighbours. But the UK, the people, have been subjected to countless psychological wars, since. The IRA. Home-grown radicalized Islamic terrorists (because two pricks decided to lead our two nations into places we had no business being there). Mass immigration - firstly with Eastern Europeans coming into UK by the many thousands, very cheap labor, working class people, mid to low skilled. Running a lot of British trades people out of work. My own parents employed two Polish girls. They were hard workers and never complained or gave any hassle. The mass immigration never ends. Countless wars in the middle east have flooded Europe with real refugees, fact. But it's also attracted many millions of freeloading economic predators from around the world that are simply milking the system. Eroding our social welfare system many of you in the USA would probably benefit from. The housing in UK is completely at a standstill. But yet we accept more and more migrants. Free housing is issued to them, sometimes, as a priority over nationals that have been on housing lists for a few years. Not fair. Our capital is almost the crime capital on the planet. Knife crime, acid attacks, muggings, shootings, drug gangs, etc. This country feels like it's sliding into an abyss. If we continue to allow an offshore 'parliament' ran by alcoholic morons like Juncker. Be honest, can you believe this guy is the President of the European Commission? an unelected elitist - he supported the destruction of Libya - enabling many of the migrant crisis we see in the mediterranean. The son of a war-time nazi. He and many of the fellow EU parliamentarians sowed the destruction of the EU. the imperialist actions in Libya have opened the floodgates of African migrants to Europe. Hence the Italians - Salvini.
I work with a Polish chap, and we discussed Brexit ... he's making plans to live and work in Germany. He think's it will be too expensive for him to live here. He's lived in the UK for 14 years, he was one of the original Polish 700,000 to come in the early 2000's. So he's seen pretty much all the debates about how migration and immigrants have affected UK. Well he said to me that he's now got a lot of sympathy for UK people, he can respect our hostility towards the great changes that have visited our shores. Because he recently traveled back to Poland to visit the family. He couldn't believe the changes. 1.7 million Ukrainian refugees have been accepted by Poland (courtesy of you know who). My workmate told me there are the exact same tensions going on in Poland, now, Polish people are angry with the rate of changes to their neighborhoods. They are increasingly hostile to the 'newcomers'. Cheap labor, running down rates, pushing out the locals, crime, everything the Brits were lambasted for complaining about when it came to mass immigration, that we've been subjected to. His family back home in Poland have been affected by the change and he is fearful for what will happen there.
The simple truth is Europeans ... per se ... are each grumbling about the EU parliament's bumbling idiot leaders always getting it wrong. People are getting sick and tired of failings. And you, as an American, you wouldn't tolerate being run by a bunch of people you do not have the power to vote in or out. And you know it's true.
BTW, I was just 30 minutes from being in the heart of 7/7. I was due to be in Tavistock Square where 13 people were blown up. It was stressful enough being in London that day, with all the chaos going on. I lay the blame for this Islamic terror that quite often visits UK shores directly at the Blair government - Blair - a pro EU remainer - a war criminal. We're being subjected to a new IRA, in my eyes, a psychological war on the people of this country. And not for something the majority of us backed in the first place. And at this critical time in the UK, with all the chaos ... the EU simply cannot be ruling this nation at a time when OUR politicians MUST be accountable to the electorate.
Plus the massive lack of confidence pro-Brexit voters will have in democracy (17m) ...this country is going to be more effed up and headed towards great strife than maybe ever before without a total Brexit, deal or no deal.
Non-related section ensuessssssssssss.
@Tom ... Your Brexit conspiracies trigger me. The linking of Brexit's coming to fruition (17m people voting for it) to Putin, specifically. I used to have long debates with my dad about the EU, or EC ... as it was then. He was youngish in 75, and he he participated in the first EVER referendum, for the people, to decide the direction this country will take. He voted Yes, to enter. He would go into great length about all the pros and cons he was subjected to in the media, just like we were bombarded with in the second referendum. In his later years the biggest gripe he's had with the EU was that he feels they've 'taking over' the country. Literally ruling us from offshore. That we're being ruled by unelected foreigners - which is mostly true. And he'd not signed onto this plan. Especially as the majority of those EU politicians ruling the parliament are extreme liberal-minded morons. One of the most interesting slogans for the Yes campaign I found when I decided to review all my dad told me about the first referendum was this one ... "Better to lose a little national sovereignty than a son or daughter". The proposition we'll be safer, no more wars! This was brought up a lot during the EC/EU 75 referendum, apparently. My dad might have missed that beauty, he obviously didn't notice he'd signed onto relieving parliament of its duties to the people.
Well the truth is we might not have had wars with our neighbours. But the UK, the people, have been subjected to countless psychological wars, since. The IRA. Home-grown radicalized Islamic terrorists (because two pricks decided to lead our two nations into places we had no business being there). Mass immigration - firstly with Eastern Europeans coming into UK by the many thousands, very cheap labor, working class people, mid to low skilled. Running a lot of British trades people out of work. My own parents employed two Polish girls. They were hard workers and never complained or gave any hassle. The mass immigration never ends. Countless wars in the middle east have flooded Europe with real refugees, fact. But it's also attracted many millions of freeloading economic predators from around the world that are simply milking the system. Eroding our social welfare system many of you in the USA would probably benefit from. The housing in UK is completely at a standstill. But yet we accept more and more migrants. Free housing is issued to them, sometimes, as a priority over nationals that have been on housing lists for a few years. Not fair. Our capital is almost the crime capital on the planet. Knife crime, acid attacks, muggings, shootings, drug gangs, etc. This country feels like it's sliding into an abyss. If we continue to allow an offshore 'parliament' ran by alcoholic morons like Juncker. Be honest, can you believe this guy is the President of the European Commission? an unelected elitist - he supported the destruction of Libya - enabling many of the migrant crisis we see in the mediterranean. The son of a war-time nazi. He and many of the fellow EU parliamentarians sowed the destruction of the EU. the imperialist actions in Libya have opened the floodgates of African migrants to Europe. Hence the Italians - Salvini.
I work with a Polish chap, and we discussed Brexit ... he's making plans to live and work in Germany. He think's it will be too expensive for him to live here. He's lived in the UK for 14 years, he was one of the original Polish 700,000 to come in the early 2000's. So he's seen pretty much all the debates about how migration and immigrants have affected UK. Well he said to me that he's now got a lot of sympathy for UK people, he can respect our hostility towards the great changes that have visited our shores. Because he recently traveled back to Poland to visit the family. He couldn't believe the changes. 1.7 million Ukrainian refugees have been accepted by Poland (courtesy of you know who). My workmate told me there are the exact same tensions going on in Poland, now, Polish people are angry with the rate of changes to their neighborhoods. They are increasingly hostile to the 'newcomers'. Cheap labor, running down rates, pushing out the locals, crime, everything the Brits were lambasted for complaining about when it came to mass immigration, that we've been subjected to. His family back home in Poland have been affected by the change and he is fearful for what will happen there.
The simple truth is Europeans ... per se ... are each grumbling about the EU parliament's bumbling idiot leaders always getting it wrong. People are getting sick and tired of failings. And you, as an American, you wouldn't tolerate being run by a bunch of people you do not have the power to vote in or out. And you know it's true.
BTW, I was just 30 minutes from being in the heart of 7/7. I was due to be in Tavistock Square where 13 people were blown up. It was stressful enough being in London that day, with all the chaos going on. I lay the blame for this Islamic terror that quite often visits UK shores directly at the Blair government - Blair - a pro EU remainer - a war criminal. We're being subjected to a new IRA, in my eyes, a psychological war on the people of this country. And not for something the majority of us backed in the first place. And at this critical time in the UK, with all the chaos ... the EU simply cannot be ruling this nation at a time when OUR politicians MUST be accountable to the electorate.
Plus the massive lack of confidence pro-Brexit voters will have in democracy (17m) ...this country is going to be more effed up and headed towards great strife than maybe ever before without a total Brexit, deal or no deal.
Non-related section ensuessssssssssss.
Paul: I assume that was tongue in cheek? Or that you are saying it was a well stated argument but not one you believe in? Certainly you don't think Trump and Putin and "their forces" have been covering up what happened to JFK in Dallas in 1963? Earl Warren and Putin?
Connecting events today, Brexit, Trump et cetera, to the events a half a century ago is nonsensical. It's projecting one's personal grievances today of Trump et al onto the shooting of JFK.
This, at bottom, is the main problem with the conspiracy believers: they are using the shooting of JFK as a vehicle to express their anger/dislike with people, e.g., LBJ or Hoover of "them", and institutions today. Or more accurately, projecting their dislike of people today BACK on events a half century ago.
The only hatred in Dallas in 1963 that led to JFK's assassination was the personal hatred of the world of one Lee Harvey Oswald. He hated the US, he hated JFK, and he wanted to strike back at those entities.
In the final count, Hillary Clinton's lead in the popular vote of the 2016 presidential election was nearly three million votes. According to the independent, non-partisan Cook Political Report, Clinton's final tally came in at 65,844,610, compared to Donald Trump's 62,979,636, with a difference of 2,864,974.Dec 20, 2016
Hillary Clinton's Final Popular Vote Lead Is 2.8 Million | Time
http://time.com/4608555/hillary-clinton-popular-vote-final/
Truly excellent post Robert, So well written. I attempted to write a rebuttal to Tom's post several times, in the end, I gave up. I knew exactly what I wanted to say but I just didn't have the eloquence nor the vocabulary to string it together. You've written exactly what I wanted to say word for word. It was really quite uncanny to read it. Well done Robert, I truly admire your penmanship, I wish I had half your skills.
Your fathers absolutely right concerning the first referendum, we were told it would make trading easier, be good for the economy and make travelling around Europe simpler, that was basicly it! What was there not to like? Of course we voted YES. We were tricked and deliberately misled. I did not, would not have voted YES had I have known what I was truly signing up for. As for Putin influencing the Brexit/Trump vote..I just can't believe someone with Tom's obvious intelligence would fall for this BS! The people of GB and the USA were conned and kept in check for decades by the powers that be with the 'REDS UNDER THE BED' nonsense, it seems many are falling for it all over again. Brexit and Trump 'won' because the majority of the voters voted for it/him, it's as simple as that and whether we like the result or not, if both countries want to remain democratic, the results must stand without 'outside influences' being used as an excuse to undermine the votes.
Thanks again for the great post Robert, respect to you.
Truly excellent post Robert, So well written. I attempted to write a rebuttal to Tom's post several times, in the end, I gave up. I knew exactly what I wanted to say but I just didn't have the eloquence nor the vocabulary to string it together. You've written exactly what I wanted to say word for word. It was really quite uncanny to read it. Well done Robert, I truly admire your penmanship, I wish I had half your skills.
Your fathers absolutely right concerning the first referendum, we were told it would make trading easier, be good for the economy and make travelling around Europe simpler, that was basicly it! What was there not to like? Of course we voted YES. We were tricked and deliberately misled. I did not, would not have voted YES had I have known what I was truly signing up for. As for Putin influencing the Brexit/Trump vote..I just can't believe someone with Tom's obvious intelligence would fall for this BS! The people of GB and the USA were conned and kept in check for decades by the powers that be with the 'REDS UNDER THE BED' nonsense, it seems many are falling for it all over again. Brexit and Trump 'won' because the majority of the voters voted for it/him, it's as simple as that and whether we like the result or not, if both countries want to remain democratic, the results must stand without 'outside influences' being used as an excuse to undermine the votes.
Thanks again for the great post Robert, respect to you.
Thanks for the compliments Denis. I am sure you, like me, have engaged a few hundred or more discussions about Brexit lately. So at the moment I've got a lot of thoughts going on in my head about what's happening. It gets really frustrating when someone just throws it out there that Brexit was not really something THE PEOPLE, the everyday folk wanted to happen.(not aimed at Tom). Or whenever I hear the well used "What about the younger generation, Brexit is depriving them of a future" ...wtf are they even on about? What they are forgetting, what David Cameron & Conservative party obviously miscalculated, is that people like you and my dad were the young people that originally participated in the first referendum and have harbored voter regret.----------------------------------------
@Tom My perspective on Brexit definitely comes from loyalty to my family history. My standpoint is probably a bit antiquated (I'm nearing 40 though). Both sides of my parents families originate from a little town, called Malmesbury, and its surrounding villages, in Wiltshire, -- South West England. It's rural and very traditional area that was one of the last places in England to be connected to the water, electric, sewage system, believe it or not. My fathers family side has commoner status in Malmesbury. Freemen. They're entitled to an ancient form of social welfare set up by King ?thelstan in the 10th century. ?thelstan granted forever that the townsmen of Malmesbury have an area of land to house and graze animals for their loyalty in following him up north to the Battle of Brunanburh.
From wikipedia -
"At the Battle of Brunanburh in 937, King Athelstan of Wessex defeated an army of northern English and Scots and made a claim to become the first 'King of All England'. Helped by many men from Malmesbury, in gratitude he gave the townsfolk their freedom, along with 600 hides of land to the south of the town. The status of freemen of Malmesbury was passed down through the generations and remains to this day. It is likely, however, that the title of freeman, or commoner, was given to tradesmen and craftsmen coming into the town during the early Middle Ages, so the claim of direct lineage from the men who fought with King Athelstan to the present day commoners is unlikely, though possible. Since at least the 17th century, however, the right has been only handed down from father to son or son-in-law. There is a maximum of 280 commoners. The organisation is said to be the 'most exclusive club' in the world, as to enter it one has to be born to a freeman or marry the daughter of one."
And that promise to the people of Malmesbury does still remain. About 10 years ago my mum's cousin fell on hard times when her husband died, she was able to claim commoner status, she was fortunate to qualify for one of the homes (very cheap rent) on the land ?thelstan granted to the people. The local council authority has honored a very antiquated rule. Pretty cool!
Ancient ritual and power structure that was still conducting affairs until relatively recently.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dy1c19GF/commoners3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkV5v6NN/commners2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYDMBY2j/commoners.jpg)
http://www.athelstanmuseum.org.uk/governance_warden_freemen.html
http://www.athelstanmuseum.org.uk/governance_commoners.html
To some, a secret society, secret oaths and to secret proceedings, even within a small town like Malmesbury.
A distant relative of my nans Maurice B Clark he had to flee Malmesbury in 1847. He was 20 at the time. According to his surviving American family (who we're in touch with all these years later) Maurice witnessed the local drunken copper dishing out some injustice to a market trader and apparently decided to knock the copper spark out in the town square. Maurice's parents scraped the money together quicksmart and packed him off to America to avoid certain jail time. Maurice settled in Ohio. He studied at Folsom's college with a young John D Rockefeller. Maurice and John D went into business together creating the early version of Standard Oil -- they created $500,000 of trade in their first year. John D eventually bought Maurice and his brother's out of company and Maurice remained in the oil industry making millions. Maurice was a prominent abolitionist -- he disliked injustice. He was a vocal suporter of freeing slaves. I often wonder what he'd think about his grandson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_C._Teagle who seems to have been a not only a traitor but hoping for Hitler's success. Walter Teagle was a member of the Quill and Dagger and Alpha Delta Phi. Took over the oil fields in Iran for Standard oil. He was a director in IG Farben. He was propping up the German war machine with his synthetic oil. He even screwed the USA over and prevented the military accessing exclusive patents owned by Standard oil and IG Farben. I doubt Maurice would have approved of his grandson's actions. It's kinda interesting where the loyalties lie of these secret club type members -- even when faced with the choice of family and nation. My uncle has visited the Teagle family, and they've come to the UK, a couple of times and apparently they're decent enough people. I do worry that the majority of our politicians are members of these secret societies. Some of their actions don't square up. And I think they're capable of selling out almost anything.
In a way it does come back to the Kennedy's. I believe they must have had dealings with secret societies. They were extremely rich kids from political stock.
Maybe the Kennedy's represented a secret society and they just lost out in a turf war?