Did Lee Oswald know that the sixth floor was the alleged scene of the crime?
Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?
And this is relevant why?
Mr May, I'm sure that you're intelligent enough to figger out why this is relevant....
It just never changes with you people. Yawn. Doesn?t matter what I can figure out. I?m asking why YOU believe it?s relevant. Doesn?t have to become a damn argument unless you choose it to.
Did Lee Oswald know that the sixth floor was the alleged scene of the crime?
Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?
Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?
There is solid reason to believe that Lee never knew that the sixth floor was being presented as the crime scene where the shots had been fired from....
On page 630 of the WR you'll find the report of Secret Service Inspector Kelley....
Kelley says that he sat in on the final interrogation of Lee Oswald which occurred at 9:30 AM on 11/24 / 63 ...( Less than two hours before Lee Oswald was lynched.)
Kelley writes:....Capt. Fritz displayed an Enco street map of Dallas which had been found among Oswald's effects at the rooming house. Oswald was asked whether the map was his and whether he had put some marks on it. He said that it was his, and remarked,
"MY God! don't tell me there's a mark where this thing happened."
The mark was pointed out to him and he said, "What about the other marks on the map?- I put a number of other marks on it. I was looking for work and marked the places where I went for jobs or where I heard there were jobs"
Captain Fritz terminated the interview at that.....
That's a very strong indication that Lee was never informed that The TSBD was being presented as the place from which the shots were fired.
And if that is true...all of the arguments about Lee telling the interrogators that he was in the first floor lunchroom was nothing but a lie and an alib.... go up in smoke..
One of the silliest arguments presented is that Lee was on the sixth floor and he saw Jarman and Norman leave the front of the TSBD building and walk to the back door.... Of course that silly argument ( apart from the fact that Lee would have had to have hung out of the window and had a neck like a giraffe ) Is based on the lie that Lee KNEW the sixth floor was being presented as the place from which the shots had been fired....
Inspector Kelley's report blows that silly idea out of the water.....
There is solid reason to believe that Lee never knew that the sixth floor was being presented as the crime scene where the shots had been fired from....
On page 630 of the WR you'll find the report of Secret Service Inspector Kelley....
Kelley says that he sat in on the final interrogation of Lee Oswald which occurred at 9:30 AM on 11/24 / 63 ...( Less than two hours before Lee Oswald was lynched.)
Kelley writes:....Capt. Fritz displayed an Enco street map of Dallas which had been found among Oswald's effects at the rooming house. Oswald was asked whether the map was his and whether he had put some marks on it. He said that it was his, and remarked,
"MY God! don't tell me there's a mark where this thing happened."
The mark was pointed out to him and he said, "What about the other marks on the map?- I put a number of other marks on it. I was looking for work and marked the places where I went for jobs or where I heard there were jobs"
Captain Fritz terminated the interview at that.....
That's a very strong indication that Lee was never informed that The TSBD was being presented as the place from which the shots were fired.
And if that is true...all of the arguments about Lee telling the interrogators that he was in the first floor lunchroom was nothing but a lie and an alib.... go up in smoke..
I've seen a photo of the Enco Map.... But I don't recall seeing it opened with the marks visible on it. Can anybody guide me to a picture of the map which reveals the marks that Lee Oswald placed on that map?
I have no doubt that Lee Oswald exclaimed ... "MY God! don't tell me there's a mark where this thing happened." And obviously that would indicate that Lee was ignorant, and did not know the facts...... OR he was feigning ignorance. But I doubt that he could have feigned ignorance and fooled Inspector Kelley.
But Kelley knew that JFK had been murdered on Elm street just a few yards west of the TSBD...and Lee would have been a damned fool to pretend that he didn't know that information. ( Feigned ignorance would indicate lying and possible guilt)
I've always accepted that Lee went out to the stub dead end street in front of the TSBD after he left the second floor lunchroom....And he stood around for a few minutes and talked to Foreman Bill Shelley and watched the police searching the railroad cars before departing the area. Based on that, It's entirely possible that Lee was never told that the official crime scene was the sixth floor of the TSBD.... And his astonishment upon Learning that the TSBD was the crime scene would be a very solid indication of innocence.....
There is an Enco map at the Dallas archives website that is purported to be Oswald's map...but there are no marks on it....
Interesting question Walt. Don?t have my resources handy at the moment but I don?t recall if he was even asked if he was on the 6th floor by anyone....he may have been. He did answer a reporter if he was in the building at the time and his reply....."of course if I work in that building"...
Others were certainly asked early on about the 6th floor and specifically whether they had sighted the accused on that floor that day.
Is there anything from Marina or Robert or Ruth in their dealings with him in custody?
Oswald was being sarcastic. Anyways, how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?
how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?
Little Rat?? Wow!!... You're still sore that Lee "ratted you out" and told RFK that the Cuban "Freedom Fighters were training on a farm on the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain near Mandeville La. And the results of his "ratting" on the Cubans got some of them tossed out of the country....
The little rat might have turned in the Cuban freedom fighters if he had known but there's absolutely no proof that he did know. Anyways, my question remains unanswered. Take your time, I'm not in any hurry.
By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD. Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor. Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been. On the third day of interrogation Oswald just about phu..ed up and admitted to Postal Inspector Holmes that he went down after the commotion and then left after the Baker incident. It's too bad Inspector Holmes didn't pursue this any further at the time but he can't be blamed as nobody knew that Ruby would kill the little SOB moments later.
By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD.
Please direct me to a single sentence that indicates that Lee Oswald had any idea that the police were telling reporters that the shots had came from the sixth floor....
Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor.
Fritz asked Le "Where were you when the parade passed by the building?... which is a totally different question than asking where he had been when the shots were fired. A question which suggests that Lee knew that shots had been fired, and he knew when they had been fired...
Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been.
How did "everybody know" ???..... When not a single person reported sighting Lee Oswald anywhere at the time of the shooting....
Did Lee Oswald know that the sixth floor was the alleged scene of the crime?
Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?
Motorcade cop tells how it happened B.W. Hargis
Sunday News (New York) 24 November 1963
?Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,? Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:
Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding
in President Kennedy?s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:
?We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was
right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President?s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.
When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been
hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.
The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.
As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head,
spinning it around.
I was splattered with blood.
Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.
Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
Then this Secret Service agent (in the President?s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The
motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that
the President had been shot.?
There was definitely a circular hole blown out at JFK's right temple which could not possibly have been caused by a shot from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_temple_blowout2.jpg)
This was likely caused by an explosive shot from the knoll. Note the fireball in JFK's head.
XP 100 Fireball
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/XP_100.jpg)
By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD. Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor. Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been. On the third day of interrogation Oswald just about phu..ed up and admitted to Postal Inspector Holmes that he went down after the commotion and then left after the Baker incident. It's too bad Inspector Holmes didn't pursue this any further at the time but he can't be blamed as nobody knew that Ruby would kill the little SOB moments later.
Did Lee Oswald know that the sixth floor was the alleged scene of the crime?
Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?
By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD.
This isn't a true statement...but even if it were....Simply because many folks believed that the shots had been fired from the sixth floor...DOES NOT prove that Lee Oswald knew that the sixth floor was being presented as the site where the shots had been fired from.
By 12:34 Dallas police had received statement shots came from TSBD
By 12:36 ?.by the 5th floor of TSBD
By 12:37 "Get some men up here to cover this school depository building. It's believed the shot came from, as you see it on Elm Street, it would be upper right hand corner, second window from the end."
"Can you give us any information as to what happened for these people out here, evidently they had - seriousness of it - the President involved - 1 is at Parkland, along with Dallas 1. We have word it is unknown - Texas Depository Store, corner of Elm and Field - officers are now surrounding and searching the building. (Garbled)"
By 12:45 "Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle..........He's thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository, here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston."
By 12:47 "Signal 19, involving the President. Suspect: white male, thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches, one hundred sixty-five pounds, believed to have used 30 caliber rifle. Believed to be in the old School Book Depository, Elm and Houston, at this time."
By 1:12 three shell cases are found on 6th floor SN. Minutes later the 6.5 mm MC c2766 is found on the NW corner of the 6th floor.
Find for me anywhere else other than the TSBD that DPD was looking for JFK's shooter. You also just ignore Fritz questioning Oswald about his whereabouts when POTUS was shot during his first interrogation. This has already been covered in a previous post. Also, since Oswald WAS the shooter nobody needed to remind him of it.
There was definitely a circular hole blown out at JFK's right temple which could not possibly have been caused by a shot from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/JFK_temple_blowout2.jpg)
This was likely caused by an explosive shot from the knoll. Note the fireball in JFK's head.
| (http://assassinationofjfk.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/A-Review-of-the-JFK-Cranial-x-Rays-and-Photographs-33.png) | (https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/xray-of-the-human-skull-lateral-view-picture-idvis308121) | (http://hdr-xray-images.com/_galleryCategories/human_anatomy/Adult_Skull.jpg) |
| (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z317.jpg) | (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z321.jpg) | (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z333.jpg) |
since Oswald WAS the shooter nobody needed to remind him of it.
Yer an idiot... using circular logic. Even if if it was common knowledge that the police were telling reporters that the shots had been fired from the sixth floor, does not mean that Lee Oswald knew.....Need I remind you he was isolated.....In Jail.
By 12:34 Dallas police had received statement shots came from TSBD
By 12:36 ?.by the 5th floor of TSBD
By 12:37 "Get some men up here to cover this school depository building. It's believed the shot came from, as you see it on Elm Street, it would be upper right hand corner, second window from the end."
"Can you give us any information as to what happened for these people out here, evidently they had - seriousness of it - the President involved - 1 is at Parkland, along with Dallas 1. We have word it is unknown - Texas Depository Store, corner of Elm and Field - officers are now surrounding and searching the building. (Garbled)"
By 12:45 "Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle..........He's thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository, here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston."
By 12:47 "Signal 19, involving the President. Suspect: white male, thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches, one hundred sixty-five pounds, believed to have used 30 caliber rifle. Believed to be in the old School Book Depository, Elm and Houston, at this time."
By 1:12 three shell cases are found on 6th floor SN. Minutes later the 6.5 mm MC c2766 is found on the NW corner of the 6th floor.
Find for me anywhere else other than the TSBD that DPD was looking for JFK's shooter. You also just ignore Fritz questioning Oswald about his whereabouts when POTUS was shot during his first interrogation. This has already been covered in a previous post. Also, since Oswald WAS the shooter nobody needed to remind him of it.
12:45 "Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle..........He's thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository, here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston."
By 12:47 "Signal 19, involving the President. Suspect: white male, thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches, one hundred sixty-five pounds, believed to have used 30 caliber rifle. Believed to be in the old School Book Depository, Elm and Houston, at this time."
The information in these DPD radio broadcasts came from Howard Brennan....
Howard Brennan wrote a sworn affidavit about an hour after the shooting. In that affidavit he wrote: ...quote..." I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun" ...Unquote
The barrel of a mannlicher carcano is cover by a full length wooden stock.
Brennan said he could see all of the barrel of the "HIGH POWERED RIFLE" ....Many people call big game hunting rifles "high powered rifles"
When Brennan was asked if he knew what kind of rifle the 35 year old, 175 pound, man man was armed with .....He said it might have been a 30 -30 Winchester ( a high powered rifle) And that's what was broadcast over the police radio.
And what does your reply have to do with Oswald being innocent because he said he was in the building? Nothing....it's just a really bad attempt at deflection. The classic red herring.
No, not a deflection.....YOU Mr Navarro, were the one who posted the deflection....I used YOUR post to point out that the prime witness Howard Brennan said that the 175 pound m, who was dressed in light colored khaki clothing, was armed with a 30 caliber HUNTING RIFLE possibly a 30-30 Winchester and NOT an old military rifle.
12:45 "Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle..........He's thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository, here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston."
By 12:47 "Signal 19, involving the President. Suspect: white male, thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches, one hundred sixty-five pounds, believed to have used 30 caliber rifle. Believed to be in the old School Book Depository, Elm and Houston, at this time."
The information in these DPD radio broadcasts came from Howard Brennan....
Howard Brennan wrote a sworn affidavit about an hour after the shooting. In that affidavit he wrote: ...quote..." I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun" ...Unquote
The barrel of a mannlicher carcano is cover by a full length wooden stock.
Brennan said he could see all of the barrel of the "HIGH POWERED RIFLE" ....Many people call big game hunting rifles "high powered rifles"
When Brennan was asked if he knew what kind of rifle the 35 year old, 175 pound, man man was armed with .....He said it might have been a 30 -30 Winchester ( a high powered rifle) And that's what was broadcast over the police radio.
The barrel of a mannlicher carcano is cover by a full length wooden stock.
Brennan said he could see all of the barrel of the "HIGH POWERED RIFLE" ....Many people call big game hunting rifles "high powered rifles"
When Brennan was asked if he knew what kind of rifle the 35 year old, 175 pound, man man was armed with .....He said it might have been a 30 -30 Winchester ( a high powered rifle) And that's what was broadcast over the police radio.
Could be Brennan failed to distinguish the wooden stock from the barrel.
(http://pdhomes.net/collections/orr4sale/vidcap5.jpg)
As I understand it, Brennan wasn't seeing the rifle through tripod-mounted binoculars. And he felt in fear of his life. So you expect him to function as a digital recording device?
Could be Brennan failed to distinguish the wooden stock from the barrel.
(http://pdhomes.net/collections/orr4sale/vidcap5.jpg)
As I understand it, Brennan wasn't seeing the rifle through tripod-mounted binoculars. And he felt in fear of his life. So you expect him to function as a digital recording device?
Whatta cop out!.... I suspect that you realize how stupid it is to claim that anybody would refer to an old military rifle as a "high powered rifle"
I visited Dealey Plaza again a couple of months ago and snapped this photo of the view from Brennan's position.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/brennan-view.jpg)
The area circled is not missing bone, but an area with low opacity as seen on normal x-rays.
(http://assassinationofjfk.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/A-Review-of-the-JFK-Cranial-x-Rays-and-Photographs-33.png) (https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/xray-of-the-human-skull-lateral-view-picture-idvis308121) (http://hdr-xray-images.com/_galleryCategories/human_anatomy/Adult_Skull.jpg)
The degree of darkness in that area varies with image processing and media resolution. Some samples show the area more opaque.
"Fireball in JFK's head". Good one.
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z317.jpg) (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z321.jpg) (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes//mpi/z300-z349/z333.jpg)
LOL. So you think the bright spot on JFK's right temple was reflected light off of brain matter? Doesn't there need to be a hole in his head for that? A perfectly circular one at that, just like a blow out. Regardless, doesn't that mean there was a hole in his skull as indicated on his x-ray?
Just look at the damage to the right side of JFK's head and tell me there were no blow out holes there.
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/323.png)
Sorry, but that was a frangible bullet that blew up in JFK's head. Funny how the autopsy photos stayed away from the right side view of JFK's head, otherwise, your graphics of x-ray shadows at the temple area is duly noted but irrelevant. Maybe you should have thought this one thru a little more before posting. Try some logic next time.