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General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Brian Doyle on January 18, 2019, 09:04:29 PM

Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 18, 2019, 09:04:29 PM
Richard Gilbride has written a new essay firming up the evidence in favor of the Lunch Room Encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald...Also included is a review of my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives:


http://jfkinsidejob.com/furthering-the-lunchroom-evidence/
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 18, 2019, 10:19:03 PM
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Richard Gilbride has written a new essay firming up the evidence in favor of the Lunch Room Encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald...Also included is a review of my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives:


http://jfkinsidejob.com/furthering-the-lunchroom-evidence/

When Patrolman M.L. Baker identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man that he stopped in the Texas
School Book Depository Building, Patrolman Baker was in the Homicide Bureau giving an affidavit and
Oswald was brought into the room to talk to some Secret Service men. When Baker saw Oswald he
stated, ?That is the man I stopped on the 4th floor of the School Book Depository

Last sentence page 4......."That is the man I stopped on the fourth floor"

The author attributes that statement to Marrion Baker .....There's are a couple of MAJOR problems with this statement....

A)   Baker did not "Stop" Lee Oswald on the fourth floor .....He said that encountered Lee Oswald who was  standing in front of the Coke machine in the SECOND  FLOOR lunchroom.....

(B) However, It's kool that the author confirms that Baker DID  in fact STOP a man on the fourth floor....Because that man did NOT fit the description of Lee Oswald...Baker sad that the man was "walking away" from the stairs on the dimly lit floor ( as opposed to STANDING by the coke machine in the brightly lit lunchroom) ....And the man was about thirty, weighed about 165 pounds,  with dark hair and who was wearing a tan jacket.   ( Lee Oswald was just 24 years old, with sandy colored hair, weighed 131 pounds, and was wearing dark colored gray trousers and a dark brown shirt) 
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 18, 2019, 11:14:43 PM
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Last sentence page 4......."That is the man I stopped on the fourth floor"

The author attributes that statement to Marrion Baker .....There's are a couple of MAJOR problems with this statement....

A)   Baker did not "Stop" Lee Oswald on the fourth floor .....He said that encountered Lee Oswald who was  standing in front of the Coke machine in the SECOND  FLOOR lunchroom.....

However, It's kool that the author confirms that Baker DID  in fact STOP a man on the forth floor....Because that man did NOT fit the description of Lee Oswald...Baker sad that the man was "walking away" from the stairs on the dimly lit floor ....And the man was about thirty, weighed about 165 pounds,  with dark hair and who was wearing a tan jacket.

I actually agree with you on this...I have told Gilbride before in public that I don't think Baker's location of Oswald was the mistake he is attributing it to in the article...I think it was deliberate...I also explained this to DiEugenio...I told Jim D that, if you look at the best evidence, it is established in the CT community that the conspiracy was happening long before Baker wrote his affidavit...Jim fails to recognize that his own CT scenario establishes a conspiracy that was laid out in advance and guided through-out its entirety...So why does DiEugenio have so much trouble conceiving that Baker's omission was part of the cover-up and designed to avoiding committing to a location that placed Oswald too far away from the 6th floor for him to be the shooter?...Gilbride suggests Baker's omission was a mistake that was due to Baker's lack of familiarity with the layout of the Depository...I suggest it was deliberate and designed to avoid any specifics that would commit Oswald to the 2nd floor lunch room location that would exonerate him and screw-up the conspiracy that all of Jim D's own accepted CT evidence exposes...Jim refuses to answer the point that all of his own CT evidence points to a full involvement of those same Dallas Police in the ongoing conspiracy - so why couldn't Baker's omitting Oswald's specific location not be a part of it?...

Since the evidence is pointing to a second Oswald being in the Depository it isn't too crazy a suggestion to speculate that perhaps Baker & Truly really did encounter a second Oswald on the 3rd floor landing...It is possible Baker had turned from the lunch room Oswald only to climb the next staircase and come upon another Oswald who looked just like the first...It could be that Truly OK'ed this second Oswald as an employee and they continued on upstairs...This second Oswald had descended from the 6th floor where he was framing Harvey and Baker intersected him on the 3rd floor landing on his way down...This second encounter could not have happened on the 4th floor staircase landing because if it had Mrs Garner would have seen it...Baker got back to the Police Station and resolved this serious problem by only identifying the 3rd floor staircase landing Oswald in his affidavit...Baker's choice was forced by this dilemma and when forced to pick one he chose the one closer to the Sniper's Nest...

In this light Truly's position of standing just outside the Depository front steps was not an accidental one...He was there to guide the first cops into the Depository...The dull brows of unskilled researchers like Kamp and DiEugenio fail to pick-up that Truly led the way up the stairs exactly because his job was to guide the first cops past the spooks that were working in his Depository and up to the 6th floor where the evidence that was set in place to frame Oswald was waiting...Not having been informed of his own being set-up Harvey spoiled the plan by reacting to Truly's elevator calls and going to the lunch room vestibule window to monitor what was going on...The elevator that should have been in place wasn't - another snafu...Harvey was told to stay in the 2nd floor lunch room according to Intel orders...When he heard shots and shouting he tweaked the plan slightly by looking out the vestibule window to find out what was happening, after all he could do this and not leave his post...Harvey saw Truly and watched him go by...Truly kept going in order to lead Baker past Harvey and up the stairs...When Harvey saw a cop come out of the steps and on to the landing he flinched back from the window...This guilty flinching is what Baker's cop instincts immediately zoned in on and pursued...Truly had to back-track when he heard Baker confronting Oswald...He immediately served his duty by rushing to Baker's side and clearing Harvey... The Prayer Man evidence imbeciles question why Truly would be leading on the steps?...They are too brainwashed with Prayer Man evidence contrivance to realize there's a very plausible reason...The Warren Commission avoids sorting this out because it shows motive... 

I have repeatedly explained to the evidence-obstructionist Jim DiEugenio that the reason Baker left the location of his first encounter with Oswald off his affidavit is because he could not truthfully reveal that he first saw "Oswald" standing stationary with his toes pointed outward towards the steps in the vestibule window...Baker left the true details of his 2nd floor encounter off the record because any true coverage would make it all too clear that "Oswald" was in the lunch room (where Carolyn Arnold saw him) the whole time and did not just rush down from the 6th floor...Baker & Truly also saw the same soda that Sarah Stanton witnessed on the lunch table and could also not admit this because it evidenced Oswald being there the whole time obviously eating lunch...These Prayer Man dummies ignore that Fritz acknowledged the Coke...Jim D has yet to react to the startling new evidence of Oswald with a soda in my interview of Stanton's relatives even though it came out 9 months ago...Jim was a big denier of Oswald's having a Coke and outwardly claimed it was an invention...Jim continues to ignore this and side with Kamp's claims despite my version obviously being the more sound (and more importantly, more credibly-witnessed)...I'm beginning to question who Jim D is and what his true purposes are?

This same scenario could also apply without the second Oswald being encountered on the 3rd floor and still hold true just as well...   
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Bill Chapman on January 19, 2019, 12:47:48 AM
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I actually agree with you on this...I have told Gilbride before in public that I don't think Baker's location of Oswald was the mistake he is attributing it to in the article...I think it was deliberate...I also explained this to DiEugenio...I told Jim D that, if you look at the best evidence, it is established in the CT community that the conspiracy was happening long before Baker wrote his affidavit...Jim fails to recognize that his own CT scenario establishes a conspiracy that was laid out in advance and guided through-out its entirety...So why does DiEugenio have so much trouble conceiving that Baker's omission was part of the cover-up and designed to avoiding committing to a location that placed Oswald too far away from the 6th floor for him to be the shooter?...Gilbride suggests Baker's omission was a mistake that was due to Baker's lack of familiarity with the layout of the Depository...I suggest it was deliberate and designed to avoid any specifics that would commit Oswald to the 2nd floor lunch room location that would exonerate him and screw-up the conspiracy that all of Jim D's own accepted CT evidence exposes...Jim refuses to answer the point that all of his own CT evidence points to a full involvement of those same Dallas Police in the ongoing conspiracy - so why couldn't Baker's omitting Oswald's specific location not be a part of it?...

Since the evidence is pointing to a second Oswald being in the Depository it isn't too crazy a suggestion to speculate that perhaps Baker & Truly really did encounter a second Oswald on the 3rd floor landing...It is possible Baker had turned from the lunch room Oswald only to climb the next staircase and come upon another Oswald who looked just like the first...It could be that Truly OK'ed this second Oswald as an employee and they continued on upstairs...This second Oswald had descended from the 6th floor where he was framing Harvey and Baker intersected him on the 3rd floor landing on his way down...This second encounter could not have happened on the 4th floor staircase landing because if it had Mrs Garner would have seen it...Baker got back to the Police Station and resolved this serious problem by only identifying the 3rd floor staircase landing Oswald in his affidavit...Baker's choice was forced by this dilemma and when forced to pick one he chose the one closer to the Sniper's Nest...

In this light Truly's position of standing just outside the Depository front steps was not an accidental one...He was there to guide the first cops into the Depository...The dull brows of unskilled researchers like Kamp and DiEugenio fail to pick-up that Truly led the way up the stairs exactly because his job was to guide the first cops past the spooks that were working in his Depository and up to the 6th floor where the evidence that was set in place to frame Oswald was waiting...Not having been informed of his own being set-up Harvey spoiled the plan by reacting to Truly's elevator calls and going to the lunch room vestibule window to monitor what was going on...The elevator that should have been in place wasn't - another snafu...Harvey was told to stay in the 2nd floor lunch room according to Intel orders...When he heard shots and shouting he tweaked the plan slightly by looking out the vestibule window to find out what was happening, after all he could do this and not leave his post...Harvey saw Truly and watched him go by...Truly kept going in order to lead Baker past Harvey and up the stairs...When Harvey saw a cop come out of the steps and on to the landing he flinched back from the window...This guilty flinching is what Baker's cop instincts immediately zoned in on and pursued...Truly had to back-track when he heard Baker confronting Oswald...He immediately served his duty by rushing to Baker's side and clearing Harvey... The Prayer Man evidence imbeciles question why Truly would be leading on the steps?...They are too brainwashed with Prayer Man evidence contrivance to realize there's a very plausible reason...The Warren Commission avoids sorting this out because it shows motive... 

I have repeatedly explained to the evidence-obstructionist Jim DiEugenio that the reason Baker left the location of his first encounter with Oswald off his affidavit is because he could not truthfully reveal that he first saw "Oswald" standing stationary with his toes pointed outward towards the steps in the vestibule window...Baker left the true details of his 2nd floor encounter off the record because any true coverage would make it all too clear that "Oswald" was in the lunch room (where Carolyn Arnold saw him) the whole time and did not just rush down from the 6th floor...Baker & Truly also saw the same soda that Sarah Stanton witnessed on the lunch table and could also not admit this because it evidenced Oswald being there the whole time obviously eating lunch...These Prayer Man dummies ignore that Fritz acknowledged the Coke...Jim D has yet to react to the startling new evidence of Oswald with a soda in my interview of Stanton's relatives even though it came out 9 months ago...Jim was a big denier of Oswald's having a Coke and outwardly claimed it was an invention...Jim continues to ignore this and side with Kamp's claims despite my version obviously being the more sound (and more importantly, more credibly-witnessed)...I'm beginning to question who Jim D is and what his true purposes are?

This same scenario could also apply without the second Oswald being encountered on the 3rd floor and still hold true just as well...   

'Since the evidence is pointing to a second Oswald being in the Depository...'

While you're in the mood to point things out to us, can you also point out the name of this 'second Oswald'... and tell us how you would know this in the first place...
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 12:57:41 AM
Let's put the second Oswald to the side for now and have you respond to the rest of what I wrote...I find it highly plausible that this is what happened and is also why Truly & Baker could not honestly describe it...The second Oswald is evidenced by Roger Craig...The first by Buell Frazier...The T-shirt Oswald is witnessed by Geraldean Reid...The lunch room long-sleeved Oswald is witnessed by the Bus/Taxi witnesses...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 01:07:43 AM
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Richard Gilbride has written a new essay firming up the evidence in favor of the Lunch Room Encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald...Also included is a review of my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives:


http://jfkinsidejob.com/furthering-the-lunchroom-evidence/

Oswald never said that he was in the second floor lunchroom during the shooting. He said that he was on the first floor.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Bill Chapman on January 19, 2019, 01:30:25 AM
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Let's put the second Oswald to the side for now and have you respond to the rest of what I wrote...I find it highly plausible that this is what happened and is also why Truly & Baker could not honestly describe it...The second Oswald is evidenced by Roger Craig...The first by Buell Frazier...The T-shirt Oswald is witnessed by Geraldean Reid...The lunch room long-sleeved Oswald is witnessed by the Bus/Taxi witnesses...

Let's not

I asked about naming the second Oswald. You have failed to do so.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 01:56:58 AM
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Richard Gilbride has written a new essay firming up the evidence in favor of the Lunch Room Encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald...Also included is a review of my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives:


http://jfkinsidejob.com/furthering-the-lunchroom-evidence/

"Doyle had spoken with Wanda on a previous occasion, and learned the startling new information that, shortly before the assassination, Sarah Stanton had spoken with Oswald 'in a break room...by the stairs.'"
=========================================================================


"I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day." -- From the signed sworn affidavit of Sarah Stanton, March 18,1964
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 04:21:24 AM
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Oswald never said that he was in the second floor lunchroom during the shooting. He said that he was on the first floor.

For him to be in the Domino Room would require Piper or the black man who sat at the rear of the floor by the stairs to have seen him...Evidence that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room is seen in Fritz's Warren Commission testimony where Ball tried to bait Fritz into saying that Oswald had come up to the lunch room to get a Coke...Fritz refused to bite and responded that Oswald said he got a Coke (but did not say he went up to get it)...It is very important to pay attention to linguistic forensics...What Fritz is saying there is Oswald told him he was in the lunch room and never went up to get there:

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

My interview with Stanton's relatives establishes that Oswald was seen with a soda prior to the assassination on the staircase landing outside the 2nd floor lunch room...I see no need for Oswald to go downstairs at this point and Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald set up and eating in that lunch room at 12:25...

Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 04:29:39 AM
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"I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day." -- From the signed sworn affidavit of Sarah Stanton, March 18,1964

I see...So even though FBI has been caught lying on numerous occasions in this event, and Carolyn Arnold backs up Stanton with her witnessing, you are saying you can trust FBI and its statements and when they claim something it is always true?...

And Stanton wasn't repeating her story to relatives over guilt from this?...Or perhaps confusion over why the story she told FBI never appeared anywhere?

And Stanton's witnessing doesn't match what is even admitted in other FBI documents that say Oswald claimed he was on the 1st floor and in the lunch room where he was witnessed by Baker & Truly?...Hmm...

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Thomas Graves on January 19, 2019, 05:20:18 AM
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I see...So even though FBI has been caught lying on numerous occasions in this event, and Carolyn Arnold backs up Stanton with her witnessing, you are saying you can trust FBI and its statements and when they claim something it is always true?...

And Stanton wasn't repeating her story to relatives over guilt from this?...Or perhaps confusion over why the story she told FBI never appeared anywhere?

And Stanton's witnessing doesn't match what is even admitted in other FBI documents that say Oswald claimed he was on the 1st floor and in the lunch room where he was witnessed by Baker & Truly?...Hmm...

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

Brian,

Did the FBI lie when it said that Stella May Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons had watched the motorcade from the south side of Elm Street?

Point being:  Some apparent lies are actually just mistakes.

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 05:38:58 AM
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For him to be in the Domino Room would require Piper or the black man who sat at the rear of the floor by the stairs to have seen him...

I agree. He was not in the Domino Room. He was in the sniper's nest on the sixth floor.

Quote
Evidence that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room is seen in Fritz's Warren Commission testimony where Ball tried to bait Fritz into saying that Oswald had come up to the lunch room to get a Coke...Fritz refused to bite and responded that Oswald said he got a Coke (but did not say he went up to get it)...It is very important to pay attention to linguistic forensics...What Fritz is saying there is Oswald told him he was in the lunch room and never went up to get there:

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

My interview with Stanton's relatives establishes that Oswald was seen with a soda prior to the assassination on the staircase landing outside the 2nd floor lunch room...I see no need for Oswald to go downstairs at this point and Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald set up and eating in that lunch room at 12:25...

I can't follow your convoluted reasoning.

Mr. BALL. Look at 136B.
Mr. FRITZ. All right, sir.
Mr. BALL. The second paragraph down, 136B.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; second floor; yes, sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 05:40:59 AM
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I see...So even though FBI has been caught lying on numerous occasions in this event, and Carolyn Arnold backs up Stanton with her witnessing, you are saying you can trust FBI and its statements and when they claim something it is always true?...

So you claim anyway. I think you are full of shit. Irregardless, this isn't a statement of ,or a report by, the FBI. It's a signed sworn affidavit of Sarah Stanton herself.
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 06:12:49 AM
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I can't follow your convoluted reasoning.

I think what you're really saying there is you can't show where anything I said was wrong...Ball tried to get Fritz to say that Oswald went up to the 2nd floor lunch room to get a Coke...Fritz wouldn't bite...Not wanting to contradict Ball, Fritz intimated that Oswald said he had a Coke but didn't say he went up to get it...In other words Oswald was there in the lunch room the whole time...Your answer seems to be evasive of a point that was clearly spelled out and easy to understand...

Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 06:19:09 AM
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I think what you're really saying there is you can't show where anything I said was wrong...Ball tried to get Fritz to say that Oswald went up to the 2nd floor lunch room to get a Coke...Fritz wouldn't bite...Not wanting to contradict Ball, Fritz intimated that Oswald said he had a Coke but didn't say he went up to get it...In other words Oswald was there in the lunch room the whole time...Your answer seems to be evasive of a point that was clearly spelled out and easy to understand...

Fritz was already on record on where Oswald claimed to be when the President was shot. Ball was aware of that and was merely reminding Fritz of it.

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; second floor; yes, sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 06:41:59 AM
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Brian,

Did the FBI lie when it said that Stella May Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons had watched the motorcade from the south side of Elm Street?

Point being:  Some apparent lies are actually just mistakes.

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy

Don't play dumb Thomas...We have a record of FBI lying about the time Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald...FBI altered that time to 12:15 in order to give Oswald time to get up to the Sniper's nest...There's a motive to FBI altering Carolyn Arnold's statement because it was dangerous...Plus they altered it twice, adding another lie that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the foyer of the front entrance...This shows a conscious need by FBI to remove Oswald from a dangerous place, namely the 2nd floor lunch room where they were obviously worried about his presence there being mentioned...We now have a second instance of FBI removing Oswald from that dangerous place in Sarah Stanton's statement...Could Stanton's statement being altered 180 degrees from not seeing Oswald to her telling relatives she saw him by the lunch room be accounted for by such an innocent, innocuous mistake? Patterns and motives usually separate accidental mistakes from intentional acts and since these two important witnesses both had unaccountable variations occur in their FBI statements could that truly be considered a mistake?   

It beggars belief that you would sum up changing Carolyn Arnold seeing Oswald in the lunch room at 12:24 to seeing him at 12:15 in the foyer - and then by only a glance - as a simple mistake when the ramifications are so severe...

I spoke to Gilbride and I told him the article should have included mention of Wanda Daniel telling me in another phone call that she also heard Sarah tell this story in person...Wanda told me that she thought she heard Sarah say Oswald told her he was going to go back in to the break-room...The reason Rosa says Oswald was going back upstairs is because Sarah assumed Oswald had gone back upstairs and shot the president...That's why Sarah never came forward with her story because she figured it didn't make any difference because Oswald had shot the president anyway and she was probably embarrassed about her obesity...What counts is Sarah never saw Oswald after she left him on the staircase landing so she had no idea where Oswald went after she spoke to him...We know Oswald didn't go upstairs after Sarah left because Carolyn Arnold saw him go back in to that break-room and set up eating lunch...And common sense tells you if Baker & Truly saw Oswald in that same lunch room that he was there in between like Fritz intimated...So if you want to apply Occam's Razor as you advise above, then apply it here... 
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 06:47:50 AM
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Don't play dumb Thomas...We have a record of FBI lying about the time Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald...FBI altered that time to 12:15 in order to give Oswald time to get up to the Sniper's nest..

I knew you were full of crap. How is the FBI reporting that Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald at 12:15 a record of them lying?
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 11:37:08 AM
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I agree. He was not in the Domino Room. He was in the sniper's nest on the sixth floor.

I can't follow your convoluted reasoning.

Mr. BALL. Look at 136B.
Mr. FRITZ. All right, sir.
Mr. BALL. The second paragraph down, 136B.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; second floor; yes, sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.


Mr. FRITZ. --------- I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.

I seriously doubt that Fritz would have asked this question.....Because Fritz was a cunning old experienced interrogator who would NEVER alert a suspect and put him on the defensive by tipping him off about the reason for his question....

Fritz would have asked an innocuous sounding question like ....  "Where were you when the motorcade passed by the building"....  He most certainly wouldn't have asked ..."I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot."
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 11:54:28 AM
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Let's put the second Oswald to the side for now and have you respond to the rest of what I wrote...I find it highly plausible that this is what happened and is also why Truly & Baker could not honestly describe it...The second Oswald is evidenced by Roger Craig...The first by Buell Frazier...The T-shirt Oswald is witnessed by Geraldean Reid...The lunch room long-sleeved Oswald is witnessed by the Bus/Taxi witnesses...

There was no "second Oswald" in the TSBD .....  That's ridiculous!....  However there was a man who was NOT Lee Oswald moving around behind the windows of the sixth floor in the minutes before the shooting.... This man was in his thirties, and could have weighed as much as 175 pounds, He was dressed in light colored khaki clothing.   He was carrying a high powered hunting rifle with a large scope....  and he aimed that rifle out of a window at some point.   

I believe the man was either a sheriff's deputy security guard, or masquerading  as a "security guard"and he was using the scope on the rifle as a telescope to scrutinize the spectators on the parade route.  Bonnie Ray Williams probably encountered him on the sixth floor and the "sheriff" scared the snot out of the kid and told him to get outta there and keep his mouth shut about having seen him there.......
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
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Oswald never said that he was in the second floor lunchroom during the shooting. He said that he was on the first floor.

Actually Lee Never said anything that indicated that he knew when the shooting occurred.....He told Fritz that he was eating lunch on the first floor when the parade passed by the building.    Of course everybody can be a good "Monday morning quarterback" in this case because we've accepted that the shots were fired as the motorcade traveled toward the triple underpass.   But Is there anything that proves that Lee knew that prior to Sunday morning?
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
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I actually agree with you on this...I have told Gilbride before in public that I don't think Baker's location of Oswald was the mistake he is attributing it to in the article...I think it was deliberate...I also explained this to DiEugenio...I told Jim D that, if you look at the best evidence, it is established in the CT community that the conspiracy was happening long before Baker wrote his affidavit...Jim fails to recognize that his own CT scenario establishes a conspiracy that was laid out in advance and guided through-out its entirety...So why does DiEugenio have so much trouble conceiving that Baker's omission was part of the cover-up and designed to avoiding committing to a location that placed Oswald too far away from the 6th floor for him to be the shooter?...Gilbride suggests Baker's omission was a mistake that was due to Baker's lack of familiarity with the layout of the Depository...I suggest it was deliberate and designed to avoid any specifics that would commit Oswald to the 2nd floor lunch room location that would exonerate him and screw-up the conspiracy that all of Jim D's own accepted CT evidence exposes...Jim refuses to answer the point that all of his own CT evidence points to a full involvement of those same Dallas Police in the ongoing conspiracy - so why couldn't Baker's omitting Oswald's specific location not be a part of it?...

Since the evidence is pointing to a second Oswald being in the Depository it isn't too crazy a suggestion to speculate that perhaps Baker & Truly really did encounter a second Oswald on the 3rd floor landing...It is possible Baker had turned from the lunch room Oswald only to climb the next staircase and come upon another Oswald who looked just like the first...It could be that Truly OK'ed this second Oswald as an employee and they continued on upstairs...This second Oswald had descended from the 6th floor where he was framing Harvey and Baker intersected him on the 3rd floor landing on his way down...This second encounter could not have happened on the 4th floor staircase landing because if it had Mrs Garner would have seen it...Baker got back to the Police Station and resolved this serious problem by only identifying the 3rd floor staircase landing Oswald in his affidavit...Baker's choice was forced by this dilemma and when forced to pick one he chose the one closer to the Sniper's Nest...

In this light Truly's position of standing just outside the Depository front steps was not an accidental one...He was there to guide the first cops into the Depository...The dull brows of unskilled researchers like Kamp and DiEugenio fail to pick-up that Truly led the way up the stairs exactly because his job was to guide the first cops past the spooks that were working in his Depository and up to the 6th floor where the evidence that was set in place to frame Oswald was waiting...Not having been informed of his own being set-up Harvey spoiled the plan by reacting to Truly's elevator calls and going to the lunch room vestibule window to monitor what was going on...The elevator that should have been in place wasn't - another snafu...Harvey was told to stay in the 2nd floor lunch room according to Intel orders...When he heard shots and shouting he tweaked the plan slightly by looking out the vestibule window to find out what was happening, after all he could do this and not leave his post...Harvey saw Truly and watched him go by...Truly kept going in order to lead Baker past Harvey and up the stairs...When Harvey saw a cop come out of the steps and on to the landing he flinched back from the window...This guilty flinching is what Baker's cop instincts immediately zoned in on and pursued...Truly had to back-track when he heard Baker confronting Oswald...He immediately served his duty by rushing to Baker's side and clearing Harvey... The Prayer Man evidence imbeciles question why Truly would be leading on the steps?...They are too brainwashed with Prayer Man evidence contrivance to realize there's a very plausible reason...The Warren Commission avoids sorting this out because it shows motive... 

I have repeatedly explained to the evidence-obstructionist Jim DiEugenio that the reason Baker left the location of his first encounter with Oswald off his affidavit is because he could not truthfully reveal that he first saw "Oswald" standing stationary with his toes pointed outward towards the steps in the vestibule window...Baker left the true details of his 2nd floor encounter off the record because any true coverage would make it all too clear that "Oswald" was in the lunch room (where Carolyn Arnold saw him) the whole time and did not just rush down from the 6th floor...Baker & Truly also saw the same soda that Sarah Stanton witnessed on the lunch table and could also not admit this because it evidenced Oswald being there the whole time obviously eating lunch...These Prayer Man dummies ignore that Fritz acknowledged the Coke...Jim D has yet to react to the startling new evidence of Oswald with a soda in my interview of Stanton's relatives even though it came out 9 months ago...Jim was a big denier of Oswald's having a Coke and outwardly claimed it was an invention...Jim continues to ignore this and side with Kamp's claims despite my version obviously being the more sound (and more importantly, more credibly-witnessed)...I'm beginning to question who Jim D is and what his true purposes are?

This same scenario could also apply without the second Oswald being encountered on the 3rd floor and still hold true just as well...   

This second encounter could not have happened on the 4th floor staircase landing because if it had Mrs Garner would have seen it...

Let's examine this idea....   I agree that it doesn't seem possible that Mrs Garner wouldn't have noticed Baker encountering a man who was walking away from the NW stairs and toward the personnel elevator on the SE corner of the fourth floor....  But,  Was Mrs Garner 100% reliable.... Is it possible that she stepped back into her office area for a moment Just as Baker dismissed the 4th floor man who Roy Truly had vouched for?

AND.... Since Baker wrote his affidavit several hours after he had dashed through the TSBD ....Is it possible that he should have said that he encountered the man on either the fourth or FIFTH  floor.....   I know The three stooges were on the fifth floor ....But they were focused on the railroad yards and not what may have been happening on the north side of the room behind many stacks of book boxes.....

Didn't Dougherty admit that he was on the fifth floor ??   Why would he admit being in close proximity to the alleged crime scene?.....Unless he knew that he had no other option, because he'd been encountered there by Officer Baker.....
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 04:33:54 PM
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This second encounter could not have happened on the 4th floor staircase landing because if it had Mrs Garner would have seen it...

Let's examine this idea....   I agree that it doesn't seem possible that Mrs Garner wouldn't have noticed Baker encountering a man who was walking away from the NW stairs and toward the personnel elevator on the SE corner of the fourth floor....  But,  Was Mrs Garner 100% reliable.... Is it possible that she stepped back into her office area for a moment Just as Baker dismissed the 4th floor man who Roy Truly had vouched for?

AND.... Since Baker wrote his affidavit several hours after he had dashed through the TSBD ....Is it possible that he should have said that he encountered the man on either the fourth or FIFTH  floor.....   I know The three stooges were on the fifth floor ....But they were focused on the railroad yards and not what may have been happening on the north side of the room behind many stacks of book boxes.....
I'm well aware that Dougherty was a confused, intimidated and frightened witness....But it is a fact that he recalled his actions at the time of the shooting....

Mr. BALL - And while you were on the fifth floor, you heard a loud noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right---it sounded like a car backfiring.
Mr. BALL - And did you hear more than one loud explosion or noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No; that was the only one I heard.
Mr. BALL - You only heard one?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And where did it sound like it came from?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It sounded like it came from overhead somewhere.
Mr. BALL - From overhead?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - How did you get to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Elevator.
Mr. BALL - You were on the fifth floor when you heard this, were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you take?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you see, there's one on this side and one on this side the one on this side is the one I took.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side," doesn't mean much when it's written down.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I know it.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Mr. BALL - I believe that is the west side, isn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I believe it is.
Mr. BALL - Now, that's the one you took up?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you take that---to what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I took it up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when I got through getting stock off of the sixth floor, I came back down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - What did you do on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I got some stock.
Mr. BALL - Then what happened then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes."
Mr. BALL - You didn't say--did you say, 'Has the President been shot?"---you told the FBI agent that you went down to the first floor and you saw a man named Eddie Piper and asked him if he heard a loud noise.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I asked him that too.
Mr. BALL - And Piper said he had heard three loud noises and told you that somebody had Just shot the President; is that right?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - Who mentioned the fact that the President had been shot first--- you or Eddie Piper?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL - Did you say anything to Piper about the President being shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - When you talked to Eddie Piper, did you know that the President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't know that at the time.
Mr. BALL - When is the first time you heard that the President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - When Eddie told me that.
Mr. BALL - Eddie told you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - You told Mr. Johnson of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that when you were on the fifth floor, you heard a loud noise and it appeared to have come from within the building, but you couldn't tell where you told him that on the 19th; did you tell him that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - On the day that this happened, on the 22d of November, you told the FBI agents Ellington and Anderson that you heard "a loud explosion which sounded like a rifle shot coming from the next floor above me."
Now, did you tell them that it sounded like a rifle shot, coming from the next floor above you, or didn't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well; I believe I told them it sounded like a car backfiring.
Mr. BALL - Well, did you tell them it sounded like it was from the floor above you, or didn't you tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You did not tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - Did it sound like it came from the floor above you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, at the time it did---yes.
Mr. BALL - Tell me this---when you heard that explosion or whatever it was--- that loud noise, where were you on the fifth floor-tell me exactly where you were?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was about 10 feet from the west elevator---the west side of the elevator.

Didn't Dougherty admit that he was on the fifth floor ??   Why would he admit being in close proximity to the alleged crime scene?.....Unless he knew that he had no other option, because he'd been encountered there by Officer Baker.....
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 05:03:08 PM
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I knew you were full of crap. How is the FBI reporting that Carolyn Arnold said she saw Oswald at 12:15 a record of them lying?

Carolyn Arnold already answered that...When Carolyn was shown her FBI report for the first time in 1978 by Dallas Morning News reporter Earl Golz she protested that she never said she saw a glimpse of Oswald in the foyer like FBI had her saying...She vehemently protested to Golz that she said 12:25 and in the lunch room and that she never said 12:15 and in the foyer...You haven't done your homework if you don't know this already...So the party that is full of crap is obviously FBI...The report that has Carolyn saying 12:15 is the first unsigned report...The signed report from March 1964 that Carolyn Arnold actually read and reviewed had her saying 12:25 for her sighting of Oswald...I personally think it takes nerve to ignore that when both witnesses Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold were left to their own memories and free will they remembered accounts that were quite different than what FBI recorded...I see a tendency in Lone Nutters to try to hold witnesses to what was written on their reports rather than what they remembered in person...I find it less than honest to pretend that there isn't a drastic conflict here between Carolyn Arnold's memory of seeing Oswald in the lunch room and catching a glimpse of him in the foyer or that it doesn't represent an equally drastic tampering of witnessing by the recording authorities...This couldn't be a simple mistake as some less than honest observers have suggested...

There's a clear issue that arises from my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives...Either Stanton held back this witnessing for reasons unknown to us or she did tell the same account that she told her relatives to FBI and FBI outright lied...The question comes up if Stanton held back and was the one who lied on her FBI report, or perhaps was convinced by persuasive agents to not tell what she really witnessed...We have an example of FBI putting pressure on a dangerous witness in the case of Ralph Yates who stood to expose his witnessing of the CIA Oswald double who was trying to set-up Oswald...So FBI did intervene directly when things got hot as far as witnesses...But in the case of Stanton we know at least that she offered her account of seeing Oswald to her relatives and was consistent in its telling...And that the truth of her story was echo-ed by Carolyn Arnold's account as well as being reinforced by FBI efforts to conceal it...

"Full of crap"...No...There's enough here for serious traction as far as action on evidence... 

The Prayer Man people make a big thing about Truly leading on the stairs in front of Baker...But they do it only to destroy the story and show that it was untrue...But their approach is very primitive and fails to offer the better criminal analysis it deserves...Truly went in front on the stairs because he was taking Baker to the Sniper's Nest...He wasn't afraid of running straight into the gun barrel of a desperate assassin because he knew there wasn't any and he was in control of the scene...Smarter, more subtle analysts will realize the Commission stayed away from inquiry on exactly who went first because they knew this question I raise here would come up and expose the game plan too clearly...Neither Baker or Truly offered any elaboration on this either for the same reason...The lunch room Oswald spoiled the plot by getting curious and wandering to the vestibule door window where he let Baker see him flinch away from the window...This CIA op Oswald blew the game plan with that one move and locked himself in to an inescapable timing that precluded any running down from the 6th floor to get there in time...The Mr Magoo Jim DiEugenio pretends there isn't a serious issue with Baker from then on where he would have to be very careful how he reported this...The world class paragon researcher DiEugenio, who offers some of the best material on the subject, then turns around and endorses some of the biggest knuckleheads to ever come upon the scene, along with their juvenile troll site, while ignoring this...
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
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There was no "second Oswald" in the TSBD .....  That's ridiculous!....  However there was a man who was NOT Lee Oswald moving around behind the windows of the sixth floor in the minutes before the shooting.... This man was in his thirties, and could have weighed as much as 175 pounds, He was dressed in light colored khaki clothing.   He was carrying a high powered hunting rifle with a large scope....  and he aimed that rifle out of a window at some point.   

I believe the man was either a sheriff's deputy security guard, or masquerading  as a "security guard"and he was using the scope on the rifle as a telescope to scrutinize the spectators on the parade route.  Bonnie Ray Williams probably encountered him on the sixth floor and the "sheriff" scared the snot out of the kid and told him to get outta there and keep his mouth shut about having seen him there.......

Nice thread hijack Walt but no...There were clearly two Oswald's according to the already-cited Roger Craig witnessing of Gerladean Reid's White T-shirt Oswald vs Buell Frazier's long sleeved Oswald who was witnessed on the bus and in the taxi...DiEugenio and the knucklehead gang try to get this down by attacking the Bus/Taxi encounter, but Armstrong already refuted that denial...As usual DiEugenio and the Prayer Man mob ignore Armstrong...Jim D is allowed to get away with murder by giving indistinct praise to Armstrong while flat-out denying some of his most important discoveries...When you demand Jim commit, his moderators come in and make quick work out of you while lying and saying they are not just fixing the playing field for Jim...They make the claim they are neutral and not fixing things for Jim only when the opposition is banned and can't show the evidence they are...

I already posted that you could omit the second Oswald being seen on the 3rd floor landing in my original post...I see you ignored the rest of what I wrote...My point was that the same scenario fits even if Baker said 3rd floor just to avoid committing to Oswald being in the 2nd floor lunch room because it was too far from the 6th floor and exonerated him...

Mrs Garner said she never moved from her observation location...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 05:28:42 PM
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Carolyn Arnold already answered that...When Carolyn was shown her FBI report for the first time in 1978 by Dallas Morning News reporter Earl Golz she protested that she never said she saw a glimpse of Oswald in the foyer like FBI had her saying...She vehemently protested to Golz that she said 12:25 and in the lunch room and that she never said 12:15 and in the foyer...You haven't done your homework if you don't know this already...So the party that is full of crap is obviously FBI...The report that has Carolyn saying 12:15 is the first unsigned report...The signed report from March 1964 that Carolyn Arnold actually read and reviewed had her saying 12:25 for her sighting of Oswald...I personally think it takes nerve to ignore that when both witnesses Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold were left to their own memories and free will they remembered accounts that were quite different than what FBI recorded...I see a tendency in Lone Nutters to try to hold witnesses to what was written on their reports rather than what they remembered in person...I find it less than honest to pretend that there isn't a drastic conflict here between Carolyn Arnold's memory of seeing Oswald in the lunch room and catching a glimpse of him in the foyer or that it doesn't represent an equally drastic tampering of witnessing by the recording authorities...This couldn't be a simple mistake as some less than honest observers have suggested...

There's a clear issue that arises from my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives...Either Stanton held back this witnessing for reasons unknown to us or she did tell the same account that she told her relatives to FBI and FBI outright lied...The question comes up if Stanton held back and was the one who lied on her FBI report, or perhaps was convinced by persuasive agents to not tell what she really witnessed...We have an example of FBI putting pressure on a dangerous witness in the case of Ralph Yates who stood to expose his witnessing of the CIA Oswald double who was trying to set-up Oswald...So FBI did intervene directly when things got hot as far as witnesses...But in the case of Stanton we know at least that she offered her account of seeing Oswald to her relatives and was consistent in its telling...And that the truth of her story was echo-ed by Carolyn Arnold's account as well as being reinforced by FBI efforts to conceal it...

"Full of crap"...No...There's enough here for serious traction as far as action on evidence... 

The Prayer Man people make a big thing about Truly leading on the stairs in front of Baker...But they do it only to destroy the story and show that it was untrue...But their approach is very primitive and fails to offer the better criminal analysis it deserves...Truly went in front on the stairs because he was taking Baker to the Sniper's Nest...He wasn't afraid of running straight into the gun barrel of a desperate assassin because he knew there wasn't any and he was in control of the scene...Smarter, more subtle analysts will realize the Commission stayed away from inquiry on exactly who went first because they knew this question I raise here would come up and expose the game plan too clearly...Neither Baker or Truly offered any elaboration on this either for the same reason...The lunch room Oswald spoiled the plot by getting curious and wandering to the vestibule door window where he let Baker see him flinch away from the window...This CIA op Oswald blew the game plan with that one move and locked himself in to an inescapable timing that precluded any running down from the 6th floor to get there in time...The Mr Magoo Jim DiEugenio pretends there isn't a serious issue with Baker from then on where he would have to be very careful how he reported this...The world class paragon researcher DiEugenio, who offers some of the best material on the subject, then turns around and endorses some of the biggest knuckleheads to ever come upon the scene, along with their juvenile troll site, while ignoring this...

You are absolutely certain that the FBI lied , and what has convinced you beyond any doubt is a reported statement by Carolyn Arnold made 15 years later? LOL! You have a very weak standard.
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 05:42:51 PM
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You are absolutely certain that the FBI lied , and what has convinced you beyond any doubt is a reported statement by Carolyn Arnold made 15 years later? LOL! You have a very weak standard.

It's not honest to suggest the 15 year delay was evidence of Carolyn's insincerity when she had no reason to see the FBI report prior...Thank you, your omission of just about everything else I wrote in order to offer that weak point is what I consider a victory...Mindlessly backing FBI while ignoring everything else is not what I would call a valid position...

I believe Stanton...Her grand daughter Wanda told me she wasn't the kind of person who decided one day to invent a nutty hoax story and keep telling it...

Meanwhile the CT community is one that is comfortable with Jim D ignoring what is probably the most important discovery in 4 decades while promoting Kamp and his nutty troll site...That's a fair playing field...Sure!
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 06:21:10 PM
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It's not honest to suggest the 15 year delay was evidence of Carolyn's insincerity when she had no reason to see the FBI report prior...Thank you, your omission of just about everything else I wrote in order to offer that weak point is what I consider a victory...Mindlessly backing FBI while ignoring everything else is not what I would call a valid position...

I believe Stanton...Her grand daughter Wanda told me she wasn't the kind of person who decided one day to invent a nutty hoax story and keep telling it...

Meanwhile the CT community is one that is comfortable with Jim D ignoring what is probably the most important discovery in 4 decades while promoting Kamp and his nutty troll site...That's a fair playing field...Sure!

Embracing a 15 year old recollection over a documented statement made three of four days after the fact is not a valid position. Embracing something that the granddaughter of Sarah Stanton said 54 plus years after the assassination over the signed sworn statement of Sarah Stanton herself is not a valid position.  You are not even being consistent. On the one hand, you reject the signed affidavit of Sarah Stanton, witnessed by SA E. J. Robertson and SA Thomas T. Trettis. With the other hand, you allude to the signed affidavit of Carolyn Arnold, witnessed by SA E. J. Robertson and SA Thomas T. Trettis.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Larry Trotter on January 19, 2019, 06:31:54 PM
During his Testimony for the WarrenCommission, DPD Captain WillFritz said:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

And, paraphrasing a portion;

"MrBall:What did he say?"
"MrFritz:Well, he told me he was eating lunch with some of the employees,..."
"MrBall:At that time didn't you know that one of your Officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?"
"MrFritz:They told me that down at the Bookstore. I believe MrTruly or someone told me about it, that they had met him..."
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 06:33:01 PM
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Nice thread hijack Walt but no...There were clearly two Oswald's according to the already-cited Roger Craig witnessing of Gerladean Reid's White T-shirt Oswald vs Buell Frazier's long sleeved Oswald who was witnessed on the bus and in the taxi...DiEugenio and the knucklehead gang try to get this down by attacking the Bus/Taxi encounter, but Armstrong already refuted that denial...As usual DiEugenio and the Prayer Man mob ignore Armstrong...Jim D is allowed to get away with murder by giving indistinct praise to Armstrong while flat-out denying some of his most important discoveries...When you demand Jim commit, his moderators come in and make quick work out of you while lying and saying they are not just fixing the playing field for Jim...They make the claim they are neutral and not fixing things for Jim only when the opposition is banned and can't show the evidence they are...

I already posted that you could omit the second Oswald being seen on the 3rd floor landing in my original post...I see you ignored the rest of what I wrote...My point was that the same scenario fits even if Baker said 3rd floor just to avoid committing to Oswald being in the 2nd floor lunch room because it was too far from the 6th floor and exonerated him...

Mrs Garner said she never moved from her observation location...

There were clearly two Oswald's according to the already-cited Roger Craig witnessing of Gerladean Reid's White T-shirt Oswald vs Buell Frazier's long sleeved Oswald who was witnessed on the bus and in the taxi.

Utter nonsense!!....  You're basing your entire case on the flimsy account of Geraldine Reid.........Mrs Reid ( God bless her soul) Could easily have been recalling Lee Oswald's usual attire when he was working in that hot poorly ventilated building....Lee Oswald usually did not wear an outer shirt as he worked in the TSBD...So all who were acquainted with him were familiar with seeing him working in his Tee shirt....  Mrs Reid probably used that recalled image when she said that she saw him walking through the office area...   AND I might add ...Mrs Reid might have been simply making up the encounter with Lee Oswald....( Unless you can find some reference to Lee Oswald verifying her tale by saying that he walked through the office area after Baker and Truly left him standing in the second floor lunchroom. ) 

PS...The only statement That I've found that is related to Lee's departure after the Baker / Truly encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom is in FBI Agent Bookhout's report for 11/25/63 ( page 619 WR)   It simply says that Lee said that after Baker and Truly departed, he took his Coca Cola and went down to the first floor . lunchroom and stood around, and had lunch in the employees lunchroom.   He there after went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelley, and there after he went home.   You'll notice that Lee said nothing about passing through the office area or encountering Mrs Reid....BUT he definitely did say that he met a Secret Service man who was looking for a phone to use as he walked toward the front door of the TSBD....  So I'd say that Lee did not walk through the office area on his way out to the front of the building....


Obviously Lee did NOT eat lunch AFTER the encounter with Baker and Truly....  (The chronology  simply precludes this )
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 06:36:59 PM
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Embracing a 15 year old recollection over a documented statement made three of four days after the fact is not a valid position. Embracing something that the granddaughter of Sarah Stanton said 54 plus years after the assassination over the signed sworn statement of Sarah Stanton herself is not a valid position.  You are not even being consistent. On the one hand, you reject the signed affidavit of Sarah Stanton, witnessed by SA E. J. Robertson and SA Thomas T. Trettis. With the other hand, you allude to the signed affidavit of Carolyn Arnold, witnessed by SA E. J. Robertson and SA Thomas T. Trettis.

That's a false statement you are making there...Carolyn Arnold's original statement was not "documented"...It was unsigned...Her signed and reviewed document of March 1964 listed the true time of 12:25...

You're speechifying here but in my opinion you are doing it to avoid evidence you know is true...In my opinion it takes real hubris to ignore/deny what a person insists upon themselves...
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
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There were clearly two Oswald's according to the already-cited Roger Craig witnessing of Gerladean Reid's White T-shirt Oswald vs Buell Frazier's long sleeved Oswald who was witnessed on the bus and in the taxi.

Utter nonsense!!....  You're basing your entire case on the flimsy account of Geraldine Reid.........Mrs Reid ( God bless her soul) Could easily have been recalling Lee Oswald's usual attire when he was working in that hot poorly ventilated building....Lee Oswald usually did not wear an outer shirt as he worked in the TSBD...So all who were acquainted with him were familiar with seeing him working in his Tee shirt....  Mrs Reid probably used that recalled image when she said that she saw him walking through the office area...   AND I might add ...Mrs Reid might have been simply making up the encounter with Lee Oswald....( Unless you can find some reference to Lee Oswald verifying her tale by saying that he walked through the office area after Baker and Truly left him standing in the second floor lunchroom. )

He says while ignoring that the same Oswald was also identified by Roger Craig and Craig suffered a terrible fate for it...Plus there is witnessing of this Oswald being seen at a restaurant in Oak Cliff at a time that conflicted with the boarding house Oswald...What gives you the right to call Geraldean Reid's account "flimsy"? Recently Karen Westbrook came forward in her 6th Floor Museum interview and said she witnessed Reid tell this story...

Wanda gave me a photo of Gerladean Reid from Sarah's photo album of her fellow office workers...People were attacking Groden with the same gratuitous denial that you offer here...Groden confirmed to me that this was the woman who told him she saw Oswald trying to get change for the soda machine during the shots...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 06:48:18 PM
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That's a false statement you are making there...Carolyn Arnold's original statement was not "documented"..

I haven't made a false statement. FBI Agent Harrison documented what Carolyn Arnold told him.

Quote
It was unsigned...Her signed and reviewed document of March 1964 listed the true time of 12:25...

See, there it is again. You embrace the signed statement of Carolyn Arnold as valid while at the same time claiming Sarah Stanton signed statement to be invalid. That's a double standard.

Your case on this is weak in the extreme. The FBI did not lie.  Carolyn Arnold's 15 year old recollection was faulty. Sarah Stanton's signed affidavit is a rock solid piece of evidence. She did not see Oswald at any time on the day of the assassination.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 19, 2019, 06:53:08 PM
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He says while ignoring that the same Oswald was also identified by Roger Craig and Craig suffered a terrible fate for it...Plus there is witnessing of this Oswald being seen at a restaurant in Oak Cliff at a time that conflicted with the boarding house Oswald...What gives you the right to call Geraldean Reid's account "flimsy"? Recently Karen Westbrook came forward in her 6th Floor Museum interview and said she witnessed Reid tell this story...

Wanda gave me a photo of Gerladean Reid from Sarah's photo album of her fellow office workers...People were attacking Groden with the same gratuitous denial that you offer here...Groden confirmed to me that this was the woman who told him she saw Oswald trying to get change for the soda machine during the shots...

The two Oswalds theory is right up there with the body alteration theories. They are nutball theories.  Roger Craig was a prevaricator. Totally unstable and non credible. If Groden told you that Mrs Reid was the woman who told him she saw Oswald trying to get change for the soda machine during the shots, then Groden is either a liar or is delusional.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 07:09:34 PM
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He says while ignoring that the same Oswald was also identified by Roger Craig and Craig suffered a terrible fate for it...Plus there is witnessing of this Oswald being seen at a restaurant in Oak Cliff at a time that conflicted with the boarding house Oswald...What gives you the right to call Geraldean Reid's account "flimsy"? Recently Karen Westbrook came forward in her 6th Floor Museum interview and said she witnessed Reid tell this story...

Wanda gave me a photo of Gerladean Reid from Sarah's photo album of her fellow office workers...People were attacking Groden with the same gratuitous denial that you offer here...Groden confirmed to me that this was the woman who told him she saw Oswald trying to get change for the soda machine during the shots...

I'm sorry Mr Doyle....But It's very clear that you are a very confused person.....
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
He says while dodging clearly-spelled out evidence...Resorting to ad hom in response to detailed evidence is a sign of not being able to answer something you know you can't deny...

Your theory that the man Baker stopped on the 3rd floor was one of the men seen in the 6th floor window can't be so because if it was a stranger Truly would have told Baker that...

Craig was backed up by the black man Robinson who confirmed the station wagon coming to a quick stop in front of him...And now Craig turns out to be indirectly confirmed by Karen Westbrook who clearly details Gerladean Reid telling of her witnessing of Oswald while the office workers were detained for questioning in the 2nd floor office corral...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 08:21:18 PM
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He says while dodging clearly-spelled out evidence...Resorting to ad hom in response to detailed evidence is a sign of not being able to answer something you know you can't deny...

Your theory that the man Baker stopped on the 3rd floor was one of the men seen in the 6th floor window can't be so because if it was a stranger Truly would have told Baker that...

Craig was backed up by the black man Robinson who confirmed the station wagon coming to a quick stop in front of him...And now Craig turns out to be indirectly confirmed by Karen Westbrook who clearly details Gerladean Reid telling of her witnessing of Oswald while the office workers were detained for questioning in the 2nd floor office corral...

Your theory that the man Baker stopped on the 3rd floor was one of the men seen in the 6th floor window can't be so because if it was a stranger Truly would have told Baker that...


Yes that's true IF IF the man was in fact a stranger...But What if the man was a fellow KKK member or a fellow Minuteman?? and well known to Truly.
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 09:10:30 PM
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He says while ignoring that the same Oswald was also identified by Roger Craig and Craig suffered a terrible fate for it...Plus there is witnessing of this Oswald being seen at a restaurant in Oak Cliff at a time that conflicted with the boarding house Oswald...What gives you the right to call Geraldean Reid's account "flimsy"? Recently Karen Westbrook came forward in her 6th Floor Museum interview and said she witnessed Reid tell this story...

Wanda gave me a photo of Gerladean Reid from Sarah's photo album of her fellow office workers...People were attacking Groden with the same gratuitous denial that you offer here...Groden confirmed to me that this was the woman who told him she saw Oswald trying to get change for the soda machine during the shots...

The only statement that I've found that is related to Lee's departure after the Baker / Truly encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom is in FBI Agent Bookhout's report for 11/25/63 ( page 619 WR)   It simply says that Lee said that after Baker and Truly departed, he took his Coca Cola and went down to the first floor . lunchroom and stood around, and had lunch in the employees lunchroom.   He there after went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelley, and there after he went home.   You'll notice that Lee said nothing about passing through the office area or encountering Mrs Reid....BUT he definitely did say that he met a Secret Service man who was looking for a phone to use as he walked toward the front door of the TSBD....  So I'd say that Lee did not walk through the office area on his way out to the front of the building....


Obviously Lee did NOT eat lunch AFTER the encounter with Baker and Truly....  (The chronology  simply precludes this )
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Steve Logan on January 19, 2019, 09:22:27 PM
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Your theory that the man Baker stopped on the 3rd floor was one of the men seen in the 6th floor window can't be so because if it was a stranger Truly would have told Baker that...


Yes that's true IF IF the man was in fact a stranger...But What if the man was a fellow KKK member or a fellow Minuteman?? and well known to Truly.
Doyle believes Oswald and his doppelganger were in the TSBD at the same time. Doyle also believes that Oswald and his doppelganger both made their way to the Texas theater and were present at the same time. Doyle is a fruitcake. Why do you bother?
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 09:36:56 PM
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Doyle believes Oswald and his doppelganger were in the TSBD at the same time. Doyle also believes that Oswald and his doppelganger both made their way to the Texas theater and were present at the same time. Doyle is a fruitcake. Why do you bother?

I like fruitcake....    Doyle may be confused, and in quicksand,  but he's still a fellow CT. ....  I'd like to help him get to solid ground.
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 10:12:40 PM
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The only statement that I've found that is related to Lee's departure after the Baker / Truly encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom is in FBI Agent Bookhout's report for 11/25/63 ( page 619 WR)   It simply says that Lee said that after Baker and Truly departed, he took his Coca Cola and went down to the first floor . lunchroom and stood around, and had lunch in the employees lunchroom.   He there after went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelley, and there after he went home.   You'll notice that Lee said nothing about passing through the office area or encountering Mrs Reid....BUT he definitely did say that he met a Secret Service man who was looking for a phone to use as he walked toward the front door of the TSBD....  So I'd say that Lee did not walk through the office area on his way out to the front of the building....


Obviously Lee did NOT eat lunch AFTER the encounter with Baker and Truly....  (The chronology  simply precludes this )

Good, you're finally getting it...The long-sleeved Oswald went to the lobby and got stopped there a second time...The reason the Prayer Man group tries to use the Holmes/Biffle statements as evidence that Oswald was witnessed by the front steps is because they are inaccurately using Holmes' confusing the 2nd floor lunch room encounter stopping of Oswald with the lobby stop...Having not been party to the actual event Biffle and Holmes confused the lunch room encounter with the lobby stop...We know this because Holmes quoted Oswald saying he had come downstairs before being stopped by the cop and told to step aside...Baker never told Oswald to step aside in the lunch room after stopping him and we know Oswald did not come downstairs to get to the lunch room encounter, so that right there proves Holmes is referring to Oswald being stopped in the lobby...The reason Oswald told Bookhout he went to the first floor to eat after the encounter is because he needed an excuse for what he really did after the lobby stop...Harvey needed to get to the Texas Theater rendezvous so he needed to get going...He went from the lobby stop to the rear of the Depository where he encountered Intel asset William Shelley...Oswald told Fritz that he went out with Shelley in front after the lunch room encounter because he could not tell him he went out the back with Shelley's cooperation and silence...This long-sleeved Harvey Oswald was then seen coming up Houston by Frazier and crossing over to Elm in order to head towards the Bus/Taxi Encounter...Harvey had an Intel rendezvous at the Texas Theater so he got off the bus and got a taxi...

Use your brain Walt...We know Oswald never stood around for 10 minutes out front with Shelley and now we have witnesses to his not being let out the front but exiting out the rear instead...What does it take to make you realize you are proving my case for me Walt? You fail to fathom that Harvey never tells of walking through the offices past Mrs Reid because that isn't Harvey...It's Lee in the White T-Shirt...He was most-likely setting-up Harvey on the 6th floor which is why Harvey was strictly assigned to the 2nd floor lunch room...The man Carr saw go get the station wagon came back and picked up Lee...Harvey is the one who speaks to the reporter who he mistakes for a Secret Service man (probably because during the set-up in the previous days he had witnessed some of the decoy Secret Service men as part of the plotters) because Harvey is the one who witnessed him...

Starting to get it yet Walt?

 
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 19, 2019, 10:33:30 PM
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Good, you're finally getting it...The long-sleeved Oswald went to the lobby and got stopped there second time...The reason the Prayer Man group tries to use the Holmes/Biffle statements as evidence that Oswald was witnessed by the front steps is because they are inaccurately using Holmes' confusing the 2nd floor lunch room encounter stopping of Oswald with the lobby stop...Having not been party to the actual event Biffle and Holmes confused the lunch room encounter with the lobby stop...We know this because Holmes quoted Oswald saying he had come downstairs before being stopped by the cop and told to step aside...Baker never told Oswald to step aside in the lunch room after stopping him and we know Oswald did not come downstairs to get to the lunch room encounter, so that right there proves Holmes is referring to Oswald being stopped in the lobby...The reason Oswald told Bookhout he went to the first floor to eat after the encounter is because he needed an excuse for what he did after the lobby stop...Harvey needed to get to the Texas Theater rendezvous so he needed to get going...He went from the lobby stop to the rear of the Depository where he encountered Intel asset William Shelley...Oswald told Fritz that he went out with Shelley in front after the lunch room encounter because he could not tell him he went out the back with Shelley's cooperation and silence...This long-sleeved Harvey Oswald was then see coming up Houston by Frazier and crossing over to Elm in order to head towards the Bus/Taxi Encounter...Harvey had an Intel rendezvous at the Texas Theater so he got off the bus and got a taxi...

Use your brain Walt...We know Oswald never stood around for 10 minutes out front with Shelley and now we have witnesses to his not being let out the front but exiting out the rear instead...What does it take to make you realize you are proving my case for me Walt? You fail to fathom that Harvey never tells of walking through the offices past Mrs Reid because that isn't Harvey...It's Lee in the White T-Shirt...He was most-likely setting-up Harvey on the 6th floor which is why Harvey was strictly assigned to the 2nd floor lunch room...The man Carr saw go get the station wagon came back and picked up Lee...Harvey is the one who speaks to the reporter who he mistakes for a Secret Service man (probably because during the set-up in the previous days he had witnessed some of the decoy Secret Service men as part of the plotters) because Harvey is the one who witnessed him...

Starting to get it yet Walt?

Mr Doyle...I told you that you are very confused...And here's proof that my observation is accurate.   You open your response to me with this statement.....
."Good, you're finally getting it"...  Then you close your post by asking...."Starting to get it yet Walt?"
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 19, 2019, 10:50:39 PM
Honestly, I meant this thread to be serious...I guess I will accept that as Walt indirectly agreeing with the rest...

The long-sleeved Oswald went to the lobby and got stopped there a second time...The reason the Prayer Man group tries to use the Holmes/Biffle statements as evidence that Oswald was witnessed by the front steps is because they are inaccurately using Holmes' confusing the 2nd floor lunch room encounter stopping of Oswald with the lobby stop...Having not been party to the actual event Biffle and Holmes confused the lunch room encounter with the lobby stop...We know this because Holmes quoted Oswald saying he had come downstairs before being stopped by the cop and told to step aside...Baker never told Oswald to step aside in the lunch room after stopping him and we know Oswald did not come downstairs to get to the lunch room encounter, so that right there proves Holmes is referring to Oswald being stopped in the lobby...The reason Oswald told Bookhout he went to the first floor to eat after the lunch room encounter is because he needed an excuse for what he really did after the lobby stop...Harvey needed to get to the Texas Theater rendezvous so he needed to get going...He went from the lobby stop to the rear of the Depository where he encountered Intel asset William Shelley...Oswald told Fritz that he went out with Shelley in front after the lunch room encounter because he could not tell him he went out the back with Shelley's cooperation and silence...This long-sleeved Harvey Oswald was then see coming up Houston by Frazier and crossing over to Elm in order to head towards the Bus/Taxi Encounter...Harvey had an Intel rendezvous at the Texas Theater so he got off the bus and got a taxi...

   We know Oswald never stood around for 10 minutes out front with Shelley and now we have witnesses to his not being let out the front but exiting out the rear instead (Frazier: "Oswald did not go out the front")...Harvey never tells of walking through the offices past Mrs Reid because that isn't Harvey...It's Lee in the White T-Shirt...He was most-likely setting-up Harvey on the 6th floor which is why Harvey was strictly assigned to the 2nd floor lunch room...The man Carr saw go get the station wagon came back and picked up Lee...Harvey is the one who speaks to the reporter whom he mistakes for a Secret Service man because Harvey is the one who witnessed him (probably because during the set-up in the previous days he had witnessed some of the decoy Secret Service men as part of the plotters)...

   It is very likely Officer Baker witnessed Lee in the White T-Shirt on the 3rd floor staircase landing just one floor after seeing the same face in the lunch room...Truly quickly OK'ed him so Baker moved on upstairs...This could not have happened on the 4th floor landing because Mrs Garner would have seen it...Baker solves his dilemma by only mentioning the 3rd floor Oswald because it puts him closer to the Sniper's Nest and removes the Oswald who was witnessed by several employees eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room...

   Truly storms up the stairs ahead of Baker because he's guiding him to the evidence that frames Oswald...He has no fear of running straight in to the gun barrel of a desperate assassin because he knows there is no such person...Harvey blew the game by hearing shots and Truly shouting for the elevator so he went to the vestibule window to watch what was going on on the stairs...He was ordered to be in the lunch room so peeking out the door window was not leaving his post...He watches as Truly went past but then flinched from the window when he saw a cop emerge on the staircase landing...Baker's cop instincts immediately homed-in on this guilty flinching and a time period was then irreversibly established that permanently precluded Oswald having enough time to get down from the 6th floor... Baker waffles on his affidavit because he can't bear witness to the exoneration of an obviously-stationary Oswald standing toes-out to the stairs who was obviously there the whole time and hadn't just run down from the Sniper's Nest...Baker & Truly saw the Coke on the table where Harvey was obviously set up and eating in between Carolyn Arnold witnessing him and Baker...

The elevators were an unexpected snafu that were supposed to be there...

Truly was most likely right out front in order to guide the first cops in to the Depository, past the spooks, and to the framing evidence...
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 20, 2019, 07:38:57 PM
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Mr Doyle...I told you that you are very confused...And here's proof that my observation is accurate.   You open your response to me with this statement.....
."Good, you're finally getting it"...  Then you close your post by asking...."Starting to get it yet Walt?"

I mean you're not seriously trying to get away with that? It is kind of obvious that it suddenly dawned on Walt that my evidence was real so he backed off to that ridiculous cop-out he offers above and scooted...

Walt saw the part where I pointed-out to him that Harvey in the long-sleeves failing to mention Mrs Reid was actually evidence that the event was witnessed by Lee in the T-shirt, as Reid described him wearing...

The key to this is Frazier saw Harvey in the long sleeves walking up Houston St from the rear of the Depository where he exited...We know Oswald was never out front with Shelley because we would have seen him there and Shelley would be forced to mention it...We know from Holmes' account that Oswald was stopped at the front door by a cop and told to step aside...Buell Frazier said "Oswald never exited the front door"...The reason Harvey said he went out front with Shelley is because he actually went from the lobby where he was stopped to the rear where Shelley saw him go out the rear exit of the Depository...Harvey could not tell Fritz that Shelley saw him exit the rear (and probably helped him) so he told him he went out front and named Shelley...He knew Shelley would cover him...

Walt fails to fathom that Harvey's never mentioning the encounter with Mrs Reid is evidence that the T-shirt-wearing Lee was the one who walked by Mrs Reid and therefore proves what I am saying...Walt bailed-out quick from the thread when he realized this...I take particular pleasure in straightening-out presumptuous posters who patronize me...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Tim Nickerson on January 20, 2019, 07:54:44 PM
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I mean you're not seriously trying to get away with that? It is kind of obvious that it suddenly dawned on Walt that my evidence was real so he backed off to that ridiculous cop-out he offers above and scooted...

Walt saw the part where I pointed-out to him that Harvey in the long-sleeves failing to mention Mrs Reid was actually evidence that the event was witnessed by Lee in the T-shirt, as Reid described him wearing...

The key to this is Frazier saw Harvey in the long sleeves walking up Houston St from the rear of the Depository where he exited...We know Oswald was never out front with Shelley because we would have seen him there and Shelley would be forced to mention it...We know from Holmes' account that Oswald was stopped at the front door by a cop and told to step aside...Buell Frazier said "Oswald never exited the front door"...The reason Harvey said he went out front with Shelley is because he actually went from the lobby where he was stopped to the rear where Shelley saw him go out the rear exit of the Depository...Harvey could not tell Fritz that Shelley saw him exit the rear (and probably helped him) so he told him he went out front and named Shelley...He knew Shelley would cover him...

Walt fails to fathom that Harvey's never mentioning the encounter with Mrs Reid is evidence that the T-shirt-wearing Lee was the one who walked by Mrs Reid and therefore proves what I am saying...Walt bailed-out quick from the thread when he realized this...I take particular pleasure in straightening-out presumptuous posters who patronize me...

Where was Harold when all of this was going on?
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Walt Cakebread on January 20, 2019, 09:43:29 PM
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I mean you're not seriously trying to get away with that? It is kind of obvious that it suddenly dawned on Walt that my evidence was real so he backed off to that ridiculous cop-out he offers above and scooted...

Walt saw the part where I pointed-out to him that Harvey in the long-sleeves failing to mention Mrs Reid was actually evidence that the event was witnessed by Lee in the T-shirt, as Reid described him wearing...

The key to this is Frazier saw Harvey in the long sleeves walking up Houston St from the rear of the Depository where he exited...We know Oswald was never out front with Shelley because we would have seen him there and Shelley would be forced to mention it...We know from Holmes' account that Oswald was stopped at the front door by a cop and told to step aside...Buell Frazier said "Oswald never exited the front door"...The reason Harvey said he went out front with Shelley is because he actually went from the lobby where he was stopped to the rear where Shelley saw him go out the rear exit of the Depository...Harvey could not tell Fritz that Shelley saw him exit the rear (and probably helped him) so he told him he went out front and named Shelley...He knew Shelley would cover him...

Walt fails to fathom that Harvey's never mentioning the encounter with Mrs Reid is evidence that the T-shirt-wearing Lee was the one who walked by Mrs Reid and therefore proves what I am saying...Walt bailed-out quick from the thread when he realized this...I take particular pleasure in straightening-out presumptuous posters who patronize me...

.Walt bailed-out quick from the thread when he realized this.

Deflate your fat head Mr Doyle....  I realized that you're a complete loon...and there no point in trying to communicate with you.
Title: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 20, 2019, 10:47:29 PM
Good - No one can refute what I wrote...
Title: Re: Gilbride Lunch Room Encounter Essay
Post by: John Iacoletti on January 31, 2019, 07:37:54 PM
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"Doyle had spoken with Wanda on a previous occasion, and learned the startling new information that, shortly before the assassination, Sarah Stanton had spoken with Oswald 'in a break room...by the stairs.'"
=========================================================================


"I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day." -- From the signed sworn affidavit of Sarah Stanton, March 18,1964

Doyle is flat-out lying about this.  His interview with Wanda and Rosa is posted to Youtube.  They never said that Sarah spoke to Oswald in a break room by the stairs.  Rosa said he was on an unspecified staircase at an unspecified time holding a Pepsi, at which point Doyle "corrects" her by saying that she must have meant Coke because it's a Southern thing.  I guess he forgot there was a Pepsi convention in Dallas going on at the same time.  See the following at 3:16.