JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on January 06, 2019, 11:38:04 PM
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Oops.
Double post.
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :(
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Note: E.C.P. = Clare Edward Petty. You know, the CI/SIG analyst who came to believe that Oswald's budd, George DeMohrenschildt, was a long-term KGB "illegal"?
Paul Garbler, for example?
(The CIA head of Moscow Station when certain things happened?)
How about all those nice people in French Intelligence back-in-the-day?
LOL
What say you, Tom Scully?
-- Mud Wrassler Tommy :)
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Are we discussing C.E.P. or E.C.P.?
....People Who Shouldn't Even Have Been Suspected?
A bit stingy with the wiggle room, aren't we? Is this not a question of competence, of reliable analysis?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/clare-edward-petty-cold-warrior-and-spycatching-cia-officer-dies-at-90/2011/04/13/AFGpYziD_story.html?utm_term=.1350674f3254
Obituaries
Clare Edward Petty, Cold Warrior and spycatching CIA officer, dies at 90
By Emma Brown April 15, 2011
......
The price of that move was Mr. Petty?s job ? he retired almost immediately ? and his reputation. His accusation against Angleton was dismissed in a CIA study, and Mr. Petty remains one of the more controversial figures in the agency?s history.
?To this day, there are people who don?t want to hear Ed Petty?s name,? said Mary Ellen Reese, who wrote a 1990 book about the CIA?s work in postwar West Germany. He may not have been right about Angleton, but ?he acted out of his conviction regardless of the consequences to him, which he knew would be grave,? she said. ?He was a man of real principle and a real patriot.?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1993/08/01/tinker-tailor-soldier-victim/50f7eb1b-dc92-44f0-aa32-ee439073a1a2/?utm_term=.7243c60c39af
TINKER, TAILOR, SOLDIER -- VICTIM
By David Wise August 1, 1993
...But so were the suspicions voiced by one of Angleton's mole hunters, Clare Edward Petty, who had been previously credited with detecting a high-level KGB mole inside West German intelligence. Petty's reason for suspecting Bennett was convoluted: Bennett had reported to Langley that a West German intelligence officer assigned to Washington as liaison with the CIA had looked frightened during a visit to Ottawa when Bennett asked him whether he had run into a certain KGB man on a trip to South America....
.....In 1972, frustrated by lack of evidence, the Mounties confronted Bennett, subjecting him to harsh interrogation for days. When Bennett was asked intimate details of his sexual relations with his wife, he realized his bedroom was bugged. He was locked out of his office and told he was through. Facing dismissal, the chief Canadian counterspy wrote in his diary: "My life has been destroyed. What more do they want of me? May God forgive them . . . ."
The strain on Bennett's marriage was too much. Three months later, his wife left him, taking their two daughters with her to Australia. Bennett also eventually moved to Australia, to Glenelg, where he eked out an existence on his small government pension. Single now, he drives to the laundromat, does his own wash and shopping and lives in a rental unit. He has managed to maintain his dignity and has tried not to become embittered. But injustice has a way of gnawing at a man.
In 1977, Canada's solicitor general told a parliamentary hearing there was "no evidence" that Bennett was anything but a loyal citizen. But his words did not clear Bennett.
The CIA put Heinz Herre, the West German, under surveillance. "A few months later, in the summer, Herre goes to Jackson Hole on vacation and two KGB guys go on the same trip," Petty said to me. In Petty's view, the KGB was trying to frame Herre by sending its officers out wherever Herre was traveling. "It was to make Herre look bad." And Bennett, Petty decided, must be part of the KGB plot. "We would not have known anything about Herre's South America trip if Bennett had not informed us," Petty said.....
....The Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the agency that took over from the Mounties in 1984, confirmed that Bennett has received his settlement. Although CSIS declined to specify the amount, Bennett indicated it was in the neighborhood of $140,000, which will net him more than $100,000 after taxes of 25 percent -- small enough recompense for two decades as a suspected spy, and a shattered life. Canada's commendable action in compensating Bennett, however belatedly, echoes the endgame of the CIA's own hunt for traitors within: Three victims of the CIA's mole hunt were compensated under an obscure act of Congress known as "The Mole Relief Act," enacted to redress the wrongs done to CIA officers whose careers were destroyed by false accusations of disloyalty. Peter Karlow, a senior officer and World War II hero, received about $500,000, and smaller amounts went to Paul Garbler, first chief of the CIA's Moscow station, and Richard Kovich, another veteran CIA officer. The three payments together totalled about $750,000.
The former CIA man who knew Bennett told me, "This was a Canadian tragedy. A terrible thing was done to this man. He was fired and his wife left him. His life was virtually ended at that point. He was completely innocent."
As for Bennett, dismissed after 18 years of service to Canada, he knows the lost years can never be recovered. He told Canadian television he is annoyed that his tormentors "received no formal punishment for crime against an innocent man."...
Amusing Url.....
http://www.brainsturbator.com/posts/160/a-toast-to-clare-petty
A Toast to Clare Petty
2013-01-02 03:55:00
...After destroying a few lives and wasting many thousands of pre-Nixon dollars, he concluded that no such plot existed.....
.....Petty would spend the last two years of his CIA employment covertly building a case to implicate Angleton himself as the primary KGB mole.
It should not go unremarked that Clare Petty made his case and resigned from the CIA in 1974, the same year that John Le Carre published Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, a novel advancing the premise that British intelligence had been similarly compromised on the highest level for much of the cold war. If Petty has ever been asked about this fictional synchronicity, the results remain unpublished. Strange resonance aside, his report was instrumental in giving William Colby the leverage to get Angleton out of power and radically remake the Agency.
Speaking to David Martin several baffling years later, Petty claimed that his brief was based on 25 points of evidence and he spent a week being interviewed on tape about his research. (It could also be remarked that David Blee was in the room for much of this testimony. David should not be confused with his equally ubiquitous son, Richard Blee, who figures prominently in the history of the CIA's later relationship with Bin Laden.)
Despite Petty's doubts, all of his 25 points were discarded almost immediately as a rationale to end Mother's reign. James Angleton has been cleared, at least in terms of history and the CIA's public documentation, of being the most audaciously successful KGB agent known to man. Although Petty's actions are usually described today as a cautionary tale about paranoia, I consider him to be an inspirational character, an admirably pure product of his training....
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Are we discussing C.E.P. or E.C.P.?
A bit stingy with the wiggle room, aren't we? Is this not a question of competence, of reliable analysis?
Amusing Url.....
Tom,
From the Master Debater website article you quoted:
"It should not go unremarked that Clare Petty made his case [against Angleton?] and resigned from the CIA in 1974, the same year that John Le Carre published Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, a novel advancing the premise that British intelligence had been similarly compromised on the highest level for much of the cold war. If Petty has ever been asked about this fictional synchronicity, the results remain unpublished. Strange resonance aside, his report was instrumental in giving William Colby the leverage to get Angleton out of power and radically remake the Agency."
Which report was that, Tom? Can you post a link to it, here?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS. It's interesting that another website I came across about an hour ago says Petty never seriously considered JJA to be a "mole."
If true, then Petty was quite a decent chap, after all.
PPS Can you give me any more specifics? Like the names of the people involved in that Canadian homing pidgeon case, for example?
Thanks.
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Ahhhh! William Nelson!
Cloak & Gown: Scholars in the Secret War, 1939-1961
By Robin W. Winks (https://books.google.com/books?id=a3ncweUli9UC&pg=PA403&dq=clare+petty+william++nelson&hl=en&newbks=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2vcjqv9rfAhUjmuAKHeJHDv0Q6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=clare%20petty%20william%20%20nelson&f=false)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/AngletonClarePettyReport.jpg)
On 4/17/2012 at 7:09 AM, Tom Scully said:
.......................
William Earl Nelson was the best man in the wedding of Philip Fendig, who was an usher in Nelson's wedding.:
On 4/16/2012 at 5:11 AM, Tom Scully said:
CIA Who's Where in Europe
http://cryptome.org/dirty-work/cia-who-where.htm
FENDIG, PHILIP FRANKLIN.
Ted Shackley introduces Philip F. Fendig to the HSCA :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=100555#relPageId=2
(http://jfkforum.com/images/NelsonFluorSchackleyFendig.jpg)
MISS C. JOHNSTON IS WED IN CAPITAL; Has 2 Attendants at ...
New York Times - May 17, 1953
Johnston, wasl married this afternoon to Philipi Franklin Fendig, son of Mrs. Benjamin Franklin Fendig of Rensse- laer, Ind., and he late lr. Fendig,I in St. Thomas[/tt]
(http://jfkforum.com/images/NelsonFluorFendigWed1953.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/NelsonFluorResignsCIA042876.jpg)
https://www.google.com/search?ei=B6wyXJ3IJeaI_Qar-ZLICA&q=latimes.com+william+nelson+cia+fluor&oq=latimes.com+william+nelson+cia+fluor&gs_l=psy-ab.12...18199.19674..20768...0.0..0.94.363.4......0....1..gws-wiz.Ryhg5B-f3nQ (https://www.google.com/search?ei=B6wyXJ3IJeaI_Qar-ZLICA&q=latimes.com+william+nelson+cia+fluor&oq=latimes.com+william+nelson+cia+fluor&gs_l=psy-ab.12...18199.19674..20768...0.0..0.94.363.4......0....1..gws-wiz.Ryhg5B-f3nQ)
.......
Crack Cop | OC Weekly
https://ocweekly.com ? News
... of Information Act (FOIA) request to the CIA, concern Lister and William Earl Nelson, a vice ... Nelson's previous job: deputy director of operations for the CIA. ... Lister's relationship with the Fluor executive began in 1978. ..... Features release starring Jeremy Renner and the L.A. Times-bestseller Orange Sunshine: The ...
Kill the Messenger: How the CIA's Crack-Cocaine Controversy ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0786735260
Nick Schou - 2009 - Biography & Autobiography
How the CIA's Crack-Cocaine Controversy Destroyed Journalist Gary Webb ... in the words of the LA Times?was on speaking terms with retired CIA agents is ... was working at the Fluor Corp., because I had to call Ron out there a couple of times. ... Next to Scott Weekly and Roberto D'Aubuisson was the name Bill Nelson.
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To whom it may concern,
It's a pity that neither Petty nor anyone else in CIA or FBI ever uncovered the first CIA officer the KGB ever recruited (in Moscow in 1956), future Hoover Institute scholar and Crocker Bank vice president Edward Ellis Smith (d. 1982 in Redwood City, CA, in a somewhat mysterious hit-and-run accident), and even someone HE may have helped KGB to recruit, one of whom was most assuredly Peter Dale Scott's "Popov's Mole."
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS It should be realized that CIA counterintelligence efforts against the KGB and the GRU became much more difficult in 1961when KGB's first "strategic deception counterintelligence operation" (involving triple-agent Dimitri Polyakov) "went active."
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Tommy,
You certainly have an uphill battle on your hands as far as supporting your analysis with facts.
The folks you are quoting demonstrated similar discernment to that of the 81 percent of christian evangelicals
who voted for,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html?utm_term=.021d2eec3b41
...And when you're a star, they let you do it,....
24 things nobody does better than Trump (according to Trump) ? VICE ...
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/nedxnm/24-things-nobody-does-better-than-trump-according-to-trump
Feb 22, 2017 - Question: Who's better than President Tump at ?loving the Bible,? ?respecting women,? or knowing ?the game?? Answer: Nobody, at least ...
....on election day in November, 2016!
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Tommy,
You certainly have an uphill battle on your hands as far as supporting your analysis with facts.
The folks you are quoting demonstrated similar discernment to that of the 81 percent of christian evangelicals
who voted for,
....on election day in November, 2016!
Tom,
Supporting my analysis of what with facts?
That Ivan Obyedkov was a triple-agent?
That Aleksey Kulak ("Fedora") was a triple-agent, and Yuri Nosenko a false defector (even PDS believes that now, thanks to John Newman)?
That George DeMohrenschildt was a long-term KGB "illegal"?
That Donald Trump has been laundering money for the Russian Mafia since 1984, and that he, as Putin's compromised "useful idiot," was installed by KGBMAFIA-boy Putin, and his lackey-agent Julian Assange, as our president?
What, Tom?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
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Tom,
Supporting my analysis of what with facts?
That Ivan Obyedkov was a triple-agent?
That Aleksey Kulak ("Fedora") was a triple-agent, and Yuri Nosenko a false defector (even PDS believes that now, thanks to John Newman)?
That George DeMohrenschildt was a long-term KGB "illegal"?
That Donald Trump has been laundering money for the Russian Mafia since 1984, and that he, as Putin's compromised "useful idiot," was installed by KGBMAFIA-boy Putin, and his lackey-agent Julian Assange, as our president?
What, Tom?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
Doesn't Putin's wealth make him an ultimate stakeholder? To paraphrase Sting, do the Russians love their (offshore)
bank accounts, too?
In your (wrassler's) opinion, were Col. S. Behn and Howard Bucknell, Jr. traitors, or simply stupified by greed?
U.S. Department of State, Office of Operations, Publishing and Reproduction Services Division., 1960 (https://books.google.com/books?id=vkLLOBbBkDMC&dq=tennent+bagley+john+bucknell&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=tennent+bagley+)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DevineBucknellBagleyBern.jpg)
PDF]The Foreign Service Journal, October 1961 - American Foreign ...
https://afsa.org/sites/default/files/fsj-1961-10-october_0.pdf
BUCKNELL. John A. C. Bucknell, a Foreign Service Reserve. Officer and son of Howard Bucknell, FSO-retired, was drowned off the island of Corsica, on June 10, 1961
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/386296753/
Body of American Attache Found
Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Jun 12, 1961 Corsica
The body of John Bucknell, 33. political attache at the U.S. Embassy in Bern miss-. ing since he went undersea fishing Friday, was found Sunday washed up on a beach near here. Bucknell, ' his wife and three ' children came here several weeks ago for a vacation. ' ; 1 ' He was appointed to his Bern post in April, 1959. Hewas a graduate of Princeton University, class of 1949..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosthenes_Behn#Puerto_Rico_Telephone_Company_and_ITT
Sosthenes Behn (January 30, 1884 ? June 6, 1957) was an American businessman widely known for founding ITT. He held the rank of lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army.
.....During the war, all of ITT's German holdings were put under Nazi control. These included a minority share in airplane manufacturer Focke-Wulf, which ITT had acquired through its contacts with German financier Kurt Baron von Schr?der. After the end of the war, the US authorities returned these assets to their rightful US owner.
Behn appointed Gerhard Westrick to the board of Focke-Wulf after the reconstitution in 1936. He was ITT's corporation chairman in Germany. After Pearl Harbour, at meetings with Baron Kurt von Schr?der and Behn in Switzerland, Westrick nervously admitted he had run into a problem. Wilhelm Ohnesorge, the elderly minister in charge of post offices, who was one of the first fifty Nazi party members, was strongly opposed to ITT's German companies continuing to function under New York management in time of war. Behn told Westrick to use Schr?der and the protection of the Gestapo against Ohnesorge. In return, Behn guaranteed that ITT would substantially increase its payments to the Gestapo through the Circle of Friends. A special board of trustees was set up by the Nazis to cooperate with Behn and his thirty thousand staff in Occupied Europe. Ohnesorge savagely fought these arrangements and tried to obtain the support of Himmler. However, Schr?der had Himmler's ear, and so, of course did his close friend and associate Walter Schellenberg. Ohnesorge appealed directly to Hitler and condemned Westrick as an American sympathiser. However, Hitler realized the importance of ITT to the German economy and proved supportive of Behn.
In 1943, ITT became majority shareholder of Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau GmbH with 29% due to Ludwig Roselius' Kaffee HAG share falling to 27% after he died on May 15.[5]
Death
Behn died on 6 June 1957. He is buried in the Arlington National Cemetery...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DevineJohnBucknellFather.jpg)
What are the odds the Sovs were responsible for the sudden death of Bagley's Bern workmate?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DevineBucknellEngaged041352.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/3999822381_77c71e4f6d_o.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=WUBRINY-1
Cryptonym: WUBRINY-1
(Allendale classmate of Tom Devine)
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/136223084/
Rochester, New York Sunday, June 15, 1952
.........
M. Harris Jr. nRICK Presbyterian Church white flowers for the all-white there at 5 p. m. yesterday when Mrs. Edwards Slocum of East Pasadena, became the wife of Rich-. ard Macy Harris Jr., http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dem...&pid=173887446
son of Mr. i and Mr. Richard Macy Harris of Klmwood Ave. The candlelight ceremony was performed by the Rev. Harold E. Nicely. The bride wore white-ribbed taffeta with collar and cuffs of heirloom lace and the full skirt fell into a court train. A cap of lace held her veil of heirhiom lace and illusion and the carried lilies of the valley with a white orchid. Mist Peggy Hargiave and Miss Barbara Slocum, lister of the bride, were the maids of honor, and the matrons of honor were Mrs. Mars-den E. Fox, also a sister of the bride, and Mrs. Thomas F. Siebcrt. ! Miss Molly Slocum, daughter of Ave. and James H. Slocum Mrs. Harris is a graduate of Miss Porter'i School, Farmington, Conn., and Briarcliff Junior College. Mr. Harris was graduated from St. Mark's School and attended the University of Rochester
Lawrence Cory Harris was best man. The ushers were John Rae of Binghamton,- Jenkins Middleton, Harper Sibley Jr., Hawlev Ward, Ciilman Perkins, Donald Clark, Thomas Siebert, Huston Hunting, John Macomher and Thomas Devine.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/137747920/
Rochester, New York Sunday, August 3, 1952.......
Louise Wolcott Devine Becomes Bride of John Bucknell
Louise Wolcott Devine, daughter of Mrs. Adrian G. Devine and the late Mr. Devine of F.lmwood Ave., became
the bride of John Adaison Cobb Bucknell, son of Mr. and Mrs Howard Bucknell 2nd of Myrtle Hall, Bluemont, Va., in a cere mony which took place at 5 p. m. yesterday at the home of her mother.The Rev. Georee Norton.the ceremony. The bride was attired in ivory taffeta, the sleeves made of heirloom rose point lace and the high neckline edged with the lace. The skirt was full, with wide panels of rosepoint lace forming panniers over the hips and falling to a deep dip in the back, and it was completed by a short train. A cap of lace held her three-quarter length veil of nylon net and she carried white orchids with stephanotis. Mrs. E. Tyler Welch of New York City was matron of honor. She wore a dress of dusty pink shantung, with a band of copper beech leaves in her hair. She carried a bouquet of white majestic daisies and deep pink daisies, with copper beech leaves. The bridesmaids were Mrs. Richard Castle and Mrs. John King of Rochester, Mrs. Howard Bucknell 3rd of Washington, D. C, and Mrs. C. Fenno Hoffman of Burlington, Vt. They were dressed in dusty pink shantung and carried white majestic daisies with copper beech leaves. Howard Bucknell of Washington, D. C, was best man. The ushers were Francis Gowan, William Macomber and William Crane, also of Washington, Peter Winants of Baltimore and Gilman Perkins of Rochester. A reception in the home followed the ceremony.
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Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable wrote:
"Doesn't Putin's wealth make him an ultimate stakeholder? To paraphrase Sting, do the Russians love their (offshore)
bank accounts, too?"
.......
Dear Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable,
Vladimir Putin is an ultimate stakeholder in what, Oh-Master-Eighteen-Degrees-Inscrutable?
1 ) Gasp ... THE EVIL, EVIL, EVIL DEEP STATE?
2 ) A healthy and happy, ecologically-viable world?
3 ) Toys-R-Us?
Gasp ... Do you think Vladimir Putin and George Soros and James Comey and Barack Obama and The Clintons and Rex Tillerson and The Bush Family are secretly cooperating with each other to control the world?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS Just wondering: Regarding the oh-so mysterious death of Tennent H. Bagley's colleague, John Addison Cobb Bucknell, a 33 year-old "political officer" at the U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland, while "undersea fishing" off Corsica in 1961, was he scuba diving at the time?
During autopsy, did they test for Polonium tea? Novichok? Ricin?
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Master Inscrutable wrote:
"Doesn't Putin's wealth make him an ultimate stakeholder? To paraphrase Sting, do the Russians love their (offshore)
bank accounts, too?"
.......
Dear Master Inscrutable,
Vladimir Putin is an ultimate stakeholder in what, Oh-Eighteenth-Degree-Master-Inscrutable?
1 ) Gasp ... THE EVIL, EVIL, EVIL DEEP STATE?
2 ) A healthy and happy, ecologically-viable world?
3 ) Toys-R-Us?
Gasp ... Do you think Vladimir Putin and George Soros and James Comey and Barack Obama and The Clintons and Rex Tillerson and The Bush Family are secretly cooperating with each other to control the world?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS Just wondering: Regarding the oh-so mysterious death of Tennent H. Bagley's colleague, John Addison Cobb Bucknell, a 33 year-old "political officer" at the U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland, while "undersea fishing" off Corsica in 1961, was he scuba diving at the time?
During autopsy, did they test for Polonium tea? Novichok? Ricin?
I am not persuaded the 1903 "enhancements" were an improvement to the 1856 original....
(https://yalealumnimagazine.com/uploads/images/6000060/1430427775/bones_high-st.jpg)
After 1903 expansion.:
(https://yalealumnimagazine.com/uploads/images/6000060/1430833336/bones_opener.jpg)
Why are you asking me about what Acting Obstructionist Matt Whitaker claims he believes?
Matthew Whitaker gave Trump advice on investigating Hillary Clinton
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../matthew-whitaker-gave-trump-advice-on-in...
Nov 9, 2018 - Trump wanted the Justice Department to investigate what role Clinton played in approving the controversial "Uranium One" deal while she was ...
The red flags on Trump's new attorney general pick, William Barr - The ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/06/trumps-new-top-attorney-general-pick-once-called-more-clinton-probes-downplayed-trump-russia-collusion/?utm_term=.f87958bd08f7.
Dec 7, 2018 - Last year, Barr said there was more substance to the Clinton-Uranium One ... President Trump insisted when he made Matthew G. Whitaker his ...
Esquires Santos and Payette (OMG, what will become of the unwanted but innocent fetuses PRIVATELY inhabiting the wombs of actual legal entities?) are the koolade sippers who might better explain their hysterical winger bent.*
The scuba question, for what reason I cannot pinpoint, took me back to the old question, why didn't Natalie
(Wood) take a shower on the yacht? It seems odd Bucknell apparantly dove alone, but maybe his brother-in-law
Tom Devine was at his side but not at liberty to disclose that?
It was a challenge to even discover how Bucknell reportedly died. Maybe Ernie can walk me through the FOIA
process to learn if there was an autopsy and if the report is available.
Do you understand Tom Devine is in too many places to reasonably be shelved as coincidental?
Did you know Petty reportedly suspected Bagley was compromised by the Soviets but Petty's concerns, in the hall of mirrors, were taken with a grain of polonium?
*https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/mar/30/context-transcript-donald-trump-punishing-women-ab/
.....MATTHEWS: I say, I accept your moral authority. In the United States, the people make the decision, the courts rule on what?s in the Constitution, and we live by that. That?s why I say.
TRUMP: Yes, but you don?t live by it because you don?t accept it. You can?t accept it. You can?t accept it. You can?t accept it.
MATTHEWS: Can we go back to matters of the law and running for president because matters of the law, what I?m talking about, and this is the difficult situation you?ve placed yourself in.
By saying you?re pro-life, you mean you want to ban abortion. How do you ban abortion without some kind of sanction? Then you get in that very tricky question of a sanction, a fine on human life, which you call murder?
TRUMP: It will have to be determined.
MATTHEWS: A fine, imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant?
TRUMP: It will have to be determined.
MATTHEWS: What about the guy that gets her pregnant? Is he responsible under the law for these abortions? Or is he not responsible for an abortion?
TRUMP: Well, it hasn?t -- it hasn?t -- different feelings, different people. I would say no.
MATTHEWS: Well, they?re usually involved.
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I am not persuaded the 1903 "enhancements" were an improvement to the 1856 original....
(https://yalealumnimagazine.com/uploads/images/6000060/1430427775/bones_high-st.jpg)
After 1903 expansion.:
(https://yalealumnimagazine.com/uploads/images/6000060/1430833336/bones_opener.jpg)
Why are you asking me about what Acting Obstructionist Matt Whitaker claims he believes?
Esquires Santos and Payette (OMG, what will become of the unwanted but innocent fetuses PRIVATELY inhabiting the wombs of actual legal entities?) are the koolade sippers who might better explain their hysterical winger bent.
The scuba question, for what reason I cannot pinpoint, took me back to the old question, why didn't Natalie
(Wood) take a shower on the yacht? It seems odd Bucknell apparantly dove alone, but maybe his brother-in-law
Tom Devine was at his side but not at liberty to disclose that?
It was a challenge to even discover how Bucknell reportedly died. Maybe Ernie can walk me through the FOIA
process to learn if there was an autopsy and if the report is available.
Do you understand Tom Devine is in too many places to reasonably be shelved as coincidental?
Did you know Petty reportedly suspected Bagley was compromised by the Soviets but Petty's concerns, in the hall of mirrors, were taken with a grain of polonium?
Dear Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable,
My, how impressive.
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS Here's a different question: Are you bummed that John Newman convinced your beloved Peter Dale Scott last March that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector?
Is Newman now part of The Deep State in your "book" because of that?
PPS Matthew who?
PPS "Apparently, Apparently, Apparently" -- Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable
LOL
PPPS So was Bill Bright.
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Dear Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable,
No, that's not what I'm asking you about.
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS Here's a different question: Are you bummed that John Newman convinced your beloved Peter Dale Scott last March that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector?
Is Newman now part of The Deep State in your "book" because of that?
PPS Matthew who?
Commie Chris, of msnbs
PPS "Apparently, Apparently, Apparently" -- Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable
LOL
A conspiracy theory even a Lone Nutter can love ...
Lance Payette replied to Lance Payette's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
...but I voted for Trump almost entirely because I believeabortion is the single biggest moral evil in the country today and I felt Trump was the only hope for stemming the tide. Not a popular view here, I realize, but there you go. I probably should be embarrassed to admit it, but my view, at almo...
December 15, 2018
No wonder he married a Russkie vs. a liberated Murkin.
Professor Scott is having a birthday on Friday. He is more lucid and functional than my elderly father, in his 90s,
but can he still be regarded as competent? Am I? Are you? Was Weissberg, near the end?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dale_Scott
BTW, do you expect Poppy came home one evening in late 1975 and said, "I have been asked to serve as DCI.
Barb, whaddya think? Should I take the job?" Or did Rockie understand that his commission didn't have enough
curtain to put everything behind and called in a trusted family fixer?
The agency is only middleaged but FWIW, name another former DCI who advanced any further after departing the
agency, aside from GHW Bush.
Was this his SOP, on the whole ride....or mostly in advanced age?
Sixth Woman Says George H.W. Bush Groped Her When She Was 16 ...
time.com ? U.S. ? George H.W. Bush
Nov 13, 2017 - Corrigan is the sixth woman since Oct. 24 to accuse Bush publicly of grabbing her buttocks without consent. ?My initial reaction was absolute ...
George H.W. Bush Apologizes After Women Accuse Him of Grabbing ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/george-bush-women.html
Oct 27, 2017 - Four women have come forward to accuse George Bush of touching them inappropriately, including one who said this week that the ...
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I asked Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable:
"Are you bummed that John Newman convinced your beloved Peter Dale Scott last March that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector? Is Newman now part of The Deep State in your "book" because of that?"
.......
Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable replied:
"Professor Scott is having a birthday on Friday. He is more lucid and functional than my elderly father, in his 90s,
but can he still be regarded as competent?"
.......
Here are my next two questions for Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable:
Dear Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable,
Does that mean you disagree with Professor John M. Newman's assessment that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector?
If so, why?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS If you quote anything from John Hart's "Monster Plot" article, I will pick it apart, piece-by-rancid-piece.
Ditto anything by Leonard McCoy, John Scelso, or Cleveland Cram.
Oleg Kalugin and Oleg Gordievsky? They were either intentionally misinformed about Nosenko by the KGB, or they're outright disinfo agents.
Jefferson Morley? David Wise? Tommy Mangold?
Don't make me laugh.
-
I asked Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable:
"Are you bummed that John Newman convinced your beloved Peter Dale Scott last March that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector? Is Newman now part of The Deep State in your "book" because of that?"
.......
Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable replied:
"Professor Scott is having a birthday on Friday. He is more lucid and functional than my elderly father, in his 90s,
but can he still be regarded as competent?"
.......
Here are my next two questions for Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable:
Dear Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable,
Does that mean you disagree with Professor John M. Newman's assessment that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector?
If so, why?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS If you quote anything from John Hart's "Monster Plot" article, I will pick it apart, piece-by-rancid-piece.
Ditto anything by Leonard McCoy, John Scelso, or Cleveland Cram.
Oleg Kalugin and Oleg Gordievsky? They were either intentionally misinformed about Nosenko by the KGB, or they're outright disinfo agents.
Jefferson Morley? David Wise? Tommy Mangold?
Don't make me laugh.
Edited and bumped for Master Eighteen-Degrees Inscrutable
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
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codge, with all due respect, who do you think fed Suzy or Morley what they reported?
Nosenko fooled some of the Langley folks and Bagley fooled all of the Langley folks except Petty.
The former Langley officers who paid Nosenko a visit late in life were better informed than I am
or can attempt to be. Maybe their recognition of Nosenko's "contribution" to U.S. counterintel was a
ruse. I am not smarter than the mirrors in that house of theirs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/08/16/foul-traitor-new-jfk-assassination-records-reveal-kgb-defectors-three-year-interrogation/?utm_term=.5d91b49529dd
?Foul traitor?: New JFK assassination records reveal KGB defector?s 3-year interrogation
By Ian Shapira August 16, 2017
.....In the end, the CIA did its best to honor him. In July 2008, several CIA officials visited him and gave him a ceremonial flag and a letter from then-agency Director Michael Hayden, thanking him for his service. The next month, Nosenko died. He was 81.
Suzy Says
DeMohrenschildt Mystery
By Suzy Knickerbocker
4/16/77 DMN
....De Mohrenschildt is constantly referred to as a mystery man and reputed member of Russian nobility.
He was neither.....In fact, this self-proclaimed society-hater, a geologist who insisted he was most comfortable amongst
intellectuals spent a lot of time hanging around the Racquet Club, the exclusive New York male
stronghold with Edward Hooker (the son of his stepaunt, the Countess Dimitri de Mohrenschildt)
and such sound social chaps as Staley Tregellas and Jake Cogswell.....
...According to family and friends DeMohrenschildt was undoubtedly a CIA stringer and periodically
made unexplained trips abroad. His Socially Registered confidant Jake Cogswell, another CIA
stringer, who established residence in Cuba before Castro. He barely made it out before the ax fell.
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Old Codger, who do you think fed Suzy or Morley what they reported?
I have no idea, Master Eighteen-Points Inscrutable.
Joseph Stalin from the grave?
James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio?
Michael "Gas-X" Clark?
Nosenko fooled some of the Langley folks ...
Yeah. Richard "Possible Mole" Kovich, Leonard McCoy, John Hart, George "Possible Mole" Kisevalter, William Colby, ...
... and Bagley fooled all of the Langley folks except Petty.
How so? In correctly claiming that Nosenko was a false defector, or in somehow "hiding" the "fact" that he (Bagley) was a "mole," Master Eighteen-Points Inscrutable? LOL
.......
Regardless, your beloved Peter Dale Scott's mind was working beautifully last March when he "got" that GRU colonel Pyotr Popov was betrayed to the KGB in early 1957 by his former dead-drop handler in Moscow, honey-trapped traitor Edward Ellis Smith, and he "got it" (with a big smile on his face and a look of wonderment in his eyes) when John Newman explained the great lengths KGB had gone to to protect Smith after that, including letting Popov continue to give valuable information to CIA for a year after he was (unbeknownst to him) uncovered, and how the KGB secretly arrested Popov in Moscow in November 1958 and "tripled" him in order to feed the CIA some Edward Ellis Smith-obfuscating/deflecting information before they finally arrested him (Popov) publicly a year later in October 1959, "tried" him, and executed him.
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS I mean, my God, man, haven't you watched John Newman's two-part "Spy Wars" presentation on youtube (from last March in San Francisco)? Why don't you watch it and judge for yourself the state of Dr. Scott's mind, based on his reaction I described, above, and on the quality of the questions he asked and the statements he made near the end of Part II (while James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio was undoubtedly still picking his nose on the other side of the table).
Caveat: I disagree, of course, with most everything PDS says at the end of Newman's presentation, and I believe he does make one factual error about what was said during "the Tuesday call" -- see if you can catch it.
Part II
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Dear Master Eighteen-Points Inscrutable,
Please just ... spit it out.
I mean, I mean, I mean ...you've been composing that "Beautiful Mind" collage of yours for about two hours now!
The whole world is waiting, Mast.
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)
PS Got enough string, rubber bands, and scotch tape to "connect" everything?
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Where-oh-where did Master-Inscrutable go?
The last time I checked (about eight hours ago) he was ... gasp ... still still still still ...
"Posting on Did C.E.P. Destroy The Lives Of People Who Shouldn't Even Have Been Suspected?"
(Did he decide that discretion really is the better part of valor?)
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy :)