JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Eddie Haymaker on December 26, 2018, 09:36:12 AM
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Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time
JDT is shot and killed
He also say's JB heard about the death of an officer at the SAME TIME
This is impossible - the first police radio reports to a shooting are
time stamped around 1.18pm and radio did not report it until @1.50pm (KLIF)
Mr Brewer observes the police reacting at around 1.18pm
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b497afe479d99e8bcadb365c9ebb889b)
LHO simply cannot make it to the TT by around 1.15pm and kill JDT
Besides that is the time JDT is shot.
LHO cannot have done it
according to dispatch records first alert to TT is 1.36pm which is reasonable
considering Mr Brewer does look through the TT for LHO before alerting police
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbfb4b73f1b279052ca303f6a350003b)
This is the direct route to the TT having gone no where near the JD crime scene and it works in perfectly with most other evidence as to the timeline. Arriving at around 1.18pm. Which is about perfect given all the eyewitness evidence and the sudden arrival of police responding to Mr Benavides call for help on JD?s radio.
Jesse Curry confirms this timeline himself in a recorded interview which is damning to the case against Oswald.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-98b9736d15cad97612bfd94c2d04e193)
This is the direct route to the JD scene. He could make it in time to shoot JD at 1.15pm If he walked fast and went directly to JD?s location. (even this is generous as the warren commission asserts 1.03pm as his official departure time)
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That STAMPS LHO at Hardy?s at around 1.16 pm and entering the TT before 1.20 pm corroborating the eye witness accounts of 4 men Burroughs,Davis,Benevidez and Curry. Just before the movie starts at 1.20pm
Its not "he didn't do it"
It's "he physically can't have done it"
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Eddie...There are a lot of posts scattered around the forum have you tried using the search function?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1352.0.html
You will see the sort of response you would get from the ODIA group.
For example... 'no matter how impossible it may seem....OSWALD DID IT ALONE'
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If ignorance is bliss
they must be ecstatic
Thats not an "opinion piece"
all the times and facts are provided by the government's case
Its funny near his first question - gives an alibi to the accused
not great lawyering but the defence attorney was so bad the whole trial
He didn't know the time JD was shot either
???
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Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time
JDT is shot and killed
He also say's JB heard about the death of an officer at the SAME TIME
This is impossible - the first police radio reports to a shooting are
time stamped around 1.18pm and radio did not report it until @1.50pm (KLIF)
Mr Brewer observes the police reacting at around 1.18pm
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b497afe479d99e8bcadb365c9ebb889b)
LHO simply cannot make it to the TT by around 1.15pm and kill JDT
Besides that is the time JDT is shot.
LHO cannot have done it
according to dispatch records first alert to TT is 1.36pm which is reasonable
considering Mr Brewer does look through the TT for LHO before alerting police
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbfb4b73f1b279052ca303f6a350003b)
This is the direct route to the TT having gone no where near the JD crime scene and it works in perfectly with most other evidence as to the timeline. Arriving at around 1.18pm. Which is about perfect given all the eyewitness evidence and the sudden arrival of police responding to Mr Benavides call for help on JD?s radio.
Jesse Curry confirms this timeline himself in a recorded interview which is damning to the case against Oswald.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-98b9736d15cad97612bfd94c2d04e193)
This is the direct route to the JD scene. He could make it in time to shoot JD at 1.15pm If he walked fast and went directly to JD?s location. (even this is generous as the warren commission asserts 1.03pm as his official departure time)
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That STAMPS LHO at Hardy?s at around 1.16 pm and entering the TT before 1.20 pm corroborating the eye witness accounts of 4 men Burroughs,Davis,Benevidez and Curry. Just before the movie starts at 1.20pm
Its not "he didn't do it"
It's "he physically can't have done it"
Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time JDT is shot and killed
Perhaps you've never read TF Bowley's or Helen Markham's affidavits,
Markham was on her way to catch a 1:12 Bus when she saw JD Tippit shot to death.... She said she left her apartment house at 1:00 and had walked one block to the corner of 10th and Patton when she spotted the police car cruising slowly along 10th street tailing a man who was walking east on the sidewalk on the south side of 10th street. Her affidavit states the time was 1:06.....And she restated that time in testifying before the warren commission...
TF Bowley said that he arrived on the scene in his car after having picked up his daughter at school ....Bowley said he looked at his watch when he got out of his car where Tippit was lying on the street... Bowley said that the time was 1:10.
Tippit was not shot at 1:15.....He was over five minutes on his way to eternity at 1:15.....
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@12:54.....
Dispatcher 78.
78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit) 78.
Dispatcher You are in the Oak Cliff area, are you not?
78 Lancaster and Eighth.
Dispatcher You will be at large for any emergency that comes in.
78 10-4.
Why would the dispatcher single out Tippit with this indication that there may be an emergency that would require his attention?
Between 12:55 and 1:03..dispatch calls Tippit... there is no response.
@1:16....Citizen Hello, police operator?
Dispatcher Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio.
Quite an instant acknowledgement from dispatch there- that a 'citizen' was using the police radio.
Citizen There's been a shooting out here...... It's a police officer. Somebody shot him.
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We can't get bogged down with all the BS witnesses at the JD crime scene
We got 10 witnesses with 11 different stories
Some change their mind about who and what they saw
But If Mr Benavides waited for the fleeing suspect to leave then checked JD
and went straight to the police radio like he say's that would fit the evidence.They get the message between 1.15pm and 1.17pm then they dispatch officer down at 1.18pm.
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Oswald leaves his rooming house at around 1.03pm
are you suggesting he sprints to east 10th arriving in around 6 minutes?
Or by 1.06pm 3 minutes
Is LHO a world class athlete now?
well he's a world class marksman too
He should have been in the Olympics
Who was closer than Mr Benavides to the crime scene?
No sorry, I trump your 2 witnesses easily with the standing evidence
We all know of Mrs Markhams credibility as a witness
As I look through the internet between 1.14-1.16 pm is widely accepted
by believers and non-believers as the time of JD's death.
Is there a famous author or personality who says otherwise?
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Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
Re 1:15
No. Bug doesn't say that.
Brewer heard about the Oak Cliff shooting at about 1:15 ..he didn't see Oswald at 1:15
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C'mon semantics bud semantics
His WR evidence is much the same
Its a shame its impossible though
Of course news of the JD shooting is not broadcast at @1.15pm
even If he was killed sooner that is way too soon
The world is waiting to hear If JFK is officially dead or not
It takes until around 1.50pm before news of the JD shooting is broadcast
on public radio (KLIF Dallas)
Brewer says he never heard the word of JFK's death on the radio
which proves between 1.15pm and 1.30om Brewer was not in his shop
when the official news broke of JFK's official demise. (@1.30pm)
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C'mon semantics bud semantics
His WR evidence is much the same
Its a shame its impossible though
Of course news of the JD shooting is not broadcast at @1.15pm
even If he was killed sooner that is way too soon
The world is waiting to hear If JFK is officially dead or not
It takes until around 1.50pm before news of the JD shooting is broadcast
on public radio (KLIF Dallas)
Brewer says he never heard the word of JFK's death on the radio
which proves between 1.15pm and 1.30om Brewer was not in his shop
when the official news broke of JFK's official demise. (@1.30pm)
???
You lost me at "Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm"
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We can't get bogged down with all the BS witnesses at the JD crime scene
We got 10 witnesses with 11 different stories
Some change their mind about who and what they saw
But If Mr Benavides waited for the fleeing suspect to leave then checked JD
and went straight to the police radio like he say's that would fit the evidence.They get the message between 1.15pm and 1.17pm then they dispatch officer down at 1.18pm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oswald leaves his rooming house at around 1.03pm
are you suggesting he sprints to east 10th arriving in around 6 minutes?
Or by 1.06pm 3 minutes
Is LHO a world class athlete now?
well he's a world class marksman too
He should have been in the Olympics
Who was closer than Mr Benavides to the crime scene?
No sorry, I trump your 2 witnesses easily with the standing evidence
We all know of Mrs Markhams credibility as a witness
As I look through the internet between 1.14-1.16 pm is widely accepted
by believers and non-believers as the time of JD's death.
Is there a famous author or personality who says otherwise?
Was there a famous author or personality at the Tippet crime scene?
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Brewer heard about the Oak Cliff shooting at about 1:15...
How can someone 'hear' about a shooting at 1:15 when the Warren Report said it didn't even happen until perhaps one minute later?
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How can someone 'hear' about a shooting at 1:15 when the Warren Report said it didn't even happen until perhaps one minute later?
you missed the "about" 1:15 in my post
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Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time
JDT is shot and killed
He also say's JB heard about the death of an officer at the SAME TIME
This is impossible - the first police radio reports to a shooting are
time stamped around 1.18pm and radio did not report it until @1.50pm (KLIF)
Mr Brewer observes the police reacting at around 1.18pm
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b497afe479d99e8bcadb365c9ebb889b)
LHO simply cannot make it to the TT by around 1.15pm and kill JDT
Besides that is the time JDT is shot.
LHO cannot have done it
according to dispatch records first alert to TT is 1.36pm which is reasonable
considering Mr Brewer does look through the TT for LHO before alerting police
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbfb4b73f1b279052ca303f6a350003b)
This is the direct route to the TT having gone no where near the JD crime scene and it works in perfectly with most other evidence as to the timeline. Arriving at around 1.18pm. Which is about perfect given all the eyewitness evidence and the sudden arrival of police responding to Mr Benavides call for help on JD?s radio.
Jesse Curry confirms this timeline himself in a recorded interview which is damning to the case against Oswald.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-98b9736d15cad97612bfd94c2d04e193)
This is the direct route to the JD scene. He could make it in time to shoot JD at 1.15pm If he walked fast and went directly to JD?s location. (even this is generous as the warren commission asserts 1.03pm as his official departure time)
-----------------------------------------------------
That STAMPS LHO at Hardy?s at around 1.16 pm and entering the TT before 1.20 pm corroborating the eye witness accounts of 4 men Burroughs,Davis,Benevidez and Curry. Just before the movie starts at 1.20pm
Its not "he didn't do it"
It's "he physically can't have done it"
Time this
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You obviously didn't watch this yourself?
It supports my conclusions 100% ;D ;D
I HAVE seen this before - I laughed out loud when I saw you posted it
11 minutes plus he left around 1.03pm so that is 1.14pm arrival time
shoots JD at around 1.15pm
He can't be at Mr Brewers store at around 1.15pm now can he?
He may be an Olympian but he cannot teleport
Hey thanks for that
Confirmed by a lone nutter
"Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mr. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it."
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How can someone 'hear' about a shooting at 1:15 when the Warren Report said it didn't even happen until perhaps one minute later?
Don't forget this is the busiest news time on radio...ever
The world was waiting to hear If Kennedy would pull through
or was officially dead. Between roughly 1.25-.135pm the first official
confirmation was broadcast on public radio regarding the death
No news therefore came through about the JD murder until around
1.50pm - Which is about 30 minutes after the event
Nobody heard about the JD murder at around 1.15pm on public radio
He wasn't even declared dead until around 1.28pm
(the ambulance to the Methodist hospital is a @10 minute round trip)
more evidence towards a 1.15pm shooting
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Don't forget this is the busiest news time on radio...ever
The world was waiting to hear If Kennedy would pull through
or was officially dead. Between roughly 1.25-.135pm the first official
confirmation was broadcast on public radio regarding the death
No news therefore came through about the JD murder until around
1.50pm - Which is about 30 minutes after the event
Nobody heard about the JD murder at around 1.15pm on public radio
He wasn't even declared dead until around 1.28pm
(the ambulance to the Methodist hospital is a @10 minute round trip)
more evidence towards a 1.15pm shooting
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time JDT is shot and killed
Perhaps you've never read TF Bowley's or Helen Markham's affidavits,
Markham was on her way to catch a 1:12 Bus when she saw JD Tippit shot to death.... She said she left her apartment house at 1:00 and had walked one block to the corner of 10th and Patton when she spotted the police car cruising slowly along 10th street tailing a man who was walking east on the sidewalk on the south side of 10th street. Her affidavit states the time was 1:06.....And she restated that time in testifying before the warren commission...
TF Bowley said that he arrived on the scene in his car after having picked up his daughter at school ....Bowley said he looked at his watch when he got out of his car where Tippit was lying on the street... Bowley said that the time was 1:10.
Tippit was not shot at 1:15.....
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Time this
The umpteenth time that video has been posted here. I think that is Gary Mack. Why didn't he walk it?
I don't think he could [at least in the allotted time]. The trip is uphill all the way. Also there was an agenda..get from point A to point B ASAP...after all-there was a cop to kill. I challenge anyone to take that walk. If you don't walk the walk..then don't talk the talk.
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well that is possible too (tippit being shot earlier by persons unknown)
It also rules out Oswald being that it is too soon for him to get there
I am using government evidence so I am working around their timing for
the JD shooting.
The DB witness evidence is compelling
The timing still falls apart.
I dont think Oswald went any where near east 10th
but got to Mr Brewers shop in time to hear police reacting outside
to the 1.18pm alert (Or the earlier DB call for help), officer down
He's Inside the theatre by 1.20pm
before the movie starts
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You obviously didn't watch this yourself?
It supports my conclusions 100% ;D ;D
I HAVE seen this before - I laughed out loud when I saw you posted it
11 minutes plus he left around 1.03pm so that is 1.14pm arrival time
shoots JD at around 1.15pm
He can't be at Mr Brewers store at around 1.15pm now can he?
He may be an Olympian but he cannot teleport
Hey thanks for that
Confirmed by a lone nutter
"Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mr. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it."
???
At 1:20 p.m, Oswald was walking down West Jefferson Avenue when he suddenly heard police sirens. He then ran into this store and hid behind a rack of shoes, which struck the manager as odd. When he thought the cost was clear, he left the shoe store. The manager immediately called the police.
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Bugliosi and Brewer say 1.15pm
not me
your guy
He called police immediately what from Hardy's shoes?
Or did he walk down talk to Mrs Postal
Then question other employee's then search the theatre for LHO
then Mrs Postal calls police just after 1.20pm
Oswald is arrested sometime before 1.40pm
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Re 1:15
No. Bug doesn't say that.
Brewer heard about the Oak Cliff shooting at about 1:15 ..he didn't see Oswald at 1:15
Can you show when Brewer heard about the JDT murder?
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The umpteenth time that video has been posted here. I think that is Gary Mack. Why didn't he walk it?
I don't think he could [at least in the allotted time]. The trip is uphill all the way. Also there was an agenda..get from point A to point B ASAP...after all-there was a cop to kill. I challenge anyone to take that walk. If you don't walk the walk..then don't talk the talk.
Surely you mean anyone the size of Oswald
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What's happening here is JB is telling a story that starts at 1.15pm
He hears on the radio JD has been shot (an honest mistake)
there are police reacting outside and this guy shows up
these things seem to happen at about the same time
I would guess between 1.15pm and 1.18pm
He enters the theatre before the film starts
before 1.20pm
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Can you show when Brewer heard about the JDT murder?
Not by name.
But the DPD-honoured shoe store manager did hear about a patrolman being shot in Oak Cliff somewhat before the funny-looking guy (who couldn't stand cop car sirens apparently) turned up.
Read all about it in the DPD-honoured shoe store manager's WC testimony.
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While you read his testimony check out the time
oh no questions about time huh?
that's weird?
BTW he did not hear about the JD shooting like he say's
1.50pm on public radio was the first announcements of the JD shooting
He doesn't hear about the JFK death on the radio at @1.30pm either
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Surely you mean anyone the size of Oswald
Is that a question? I mean anyone no matter who you are. No more armchair walking. No more stopping the clock and resting [like that video] :-\
There is no proof..none at all..that Oswald walked from his room to the Tippit shooting...get it?
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If ignorance is bliss
they must be ecstatic
Thats not an "opinion piece"
all the times and facts are provided by the government's case
Its funny near his first question - gives an alibi to the accused
not great lawyering but the defence attorney was so bad the whole trial
He didn't know the time JD was shot either
???
Was the Dallas Police Department involved in the assassination and/or the cover up?
Was the Warren Commission involved in the cover up?
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Right off the bat Mr Bugliosi states Mr Brewer first sights LHO at about 1.15pm
This is a problem because evidence suggests @1.15pm as the time JDT is shot and killed
Perhaps you've never read TF Bowley's or Helen Markham's affidavits,
Markham was on her way to catch a 1:12 Bus when she saw JD Tippit shot to death.... She said she left her apartment house at 1:00 and had walked one block to the corner of 10th and Patton when she spotted the police car cruising slowly along 10th street tailing a man who was walking east on the sidewalk on the south side of 10th street. Her affidavit states the time was 1:06.....And she restated that time in testifying before the warren commission...
TF Bowley said that he arrived on the scene in his car after having picked up his daughter at school ....Bowley said he looked at his watch when he got out of his car where Tippit was lying on the street... Bowley said that the time was 1:10.
Tippit was not shot at 1:15.....He was over five minutes on his way to eternity at 1:15.....
Markham was on her way to catch a 1:12 Bus...
...or the 1:22 bus.
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Was the WR a cover up?
I think this question answer's itself
The sitting president of the US himself did not believe in the MBT.
The majority of Americans do not believe in it's lone gunman conclusion
The final HSCA's ruling was a probable conspiracy
I am not sure what my opinions or POV can really add to all that
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Was the DPD involved?
IMO the evidence suggests that individuals within the DPD were involved
in this crime.
-The LHO murder
The cops know Ruby.They also know he is not a reporter.Nobody say's "hey jack,what are you doing here?" He loiters around the DPD waiting for his opportunity.Does he keep a low profile? No he answers questions.He has been arrested multiple times for carrying a firearm.He is known to police.personally.
-The rooming house
It is widely accepted by both sides of this debate that Mrs Roberts
Saw a police car pull up outside LHO's rooming house 1/2 an hour after JFK
was hit beep the horn.This evidence is quickly dismissed by the DPD who say they had to no cars in the area at that time.This is evidence of police knowledge and one of the single most overlooked and understated piece's of evidence in this case IMO.
-The Investigation
Well I think most people know the open and shut nature of this case
as described by the DPD and the DA.I don't need to go deeper into this.When you say "moral certainty" regarding his guilt on television I think your POV is clear.
The trial would have been interesting with everyone announcing his guilt before 24 hours had even elapsed. "He acted alone"
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The fact that the HSCA confirm a probable conspiracy defies the DPD investigation and therefore asks serious questions about it's competency at best.Complicity at worst.
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Good luck cherry picking
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Markham was on her way to catch a 1:12 Bus...
...or the 1:22 bus.
Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
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Markham is known to be unreliable at best
move on
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Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
It is entirely plausible that the 1:12 bus Markham usually took was late by three minutes.
It is completely implausible that the 1:22 bus usually arrived at the bus stop on Jefferson seven minutes too early.
Besides, even if Tippit was really killed at 1:15, Markham should have been at the bus stop and not one block away at 10th/Patton. This alone indicates that Tippit must have been shot several minutes prior to 1:15
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Markham is known to be unreliable at best
move on
Markham is known to be unreliable at best
Do you believe that Helen Markham was so unreliable she couldn't read a clock? Do you think she could have kept her job at the cafe if she didn't arrive on time?....
She was on her way to catch the 1:12 bus because she had to be at work at 2:00 pm.....She left her apartment at 1:00 pm and saw JD Tippit shot to death at 1:06.....
The liars have tried desperately to discredit her.... Why have you joined them Mr Hatmaker?....
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Markham is known to be unreliable at best
Do you believe that Helen Markham was so unreliable she couldn't read a clock? Do you think she could have kept her job at the cafe if she didn't arrive on time?....
She was on her way to catch the 1:12 bus because she had to be at work at 2:00 pm.....She left her apartment at 1:00 pm and saw JD Tippit shot to death at 1:06.....
The liars have tried desperately to discredit her.... Why have you joined them Mr Hatmaker?....
She left her apartment at 1:00 pm and saw JD Tippit shot to death at 1:06.....
Actually, she testified that she left at "a little after 1".
To get to 10th/Patton is only a one block walk. She IMO would have arrived there at around 1:06.
In other words, if the shooting happened at 1:15 Markham would not have seen it as she would have been at the bus stop on Jefferson.
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Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
It is entirely plausible that the 1:12 bus Markham usually took was late by three minutes.
It is completely implausible that the 1:22 bus usually arrived at the bus stop on Jefferson seven minutes too early.
Besides, even if Tippit was really killed at 1:15, Markham should have been at the bus stop and not one block away at 10th/Patton. This alone indicates that Tippit must have been shot several minutes prior to 1:15
Markham displayed her punctuality by catching a bus that took her to work at least a half hour before she was required to be at work... Likewise she would have been at the bus stop several minutes prior to the scheduled arrival of the 1:12 bus.
She confirmed this when she said the time was 1:06 when she saw JD Tippit shot to death.....
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Is that a question? I mean anyone no matter who you are. No more armchair walking. No more stopping the clock and resting [like that video] :-\
There is no proof..none at all..that Oswald walked from his room to the Tippit shooting...get it?
There is no proof..none at all..that Oswald walked from his room to the Tippit shooting...get it? Thumb1: BRAVO!! Mr Freeman....
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She left her apartment at 1:00 pm and saw JD Tippit shot to death at 1:06.....
Actually, she testified that she left at "a little after 1".
To get to 10th/Patton is only a one block walk. She IMO would have arrived there at around 1:06.
In other words, if the shooting happened at 1:15 Markham would not have seen it as she would have been at the bus stop on Jefferson.
Thumb1: Right you are... Mr Weidmann
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IMO LHO went no where near the JD crime scene
he had no time
He went directly to west Jefferson from his rooming house
where he is sighted by JB at around 1.15pm
He describes police reacting outside Hardy's at around 1.18pm
LHO knew a film started at 1.20 pm
therefore the time JD was shot really is irrelevant
LHO could not realistically have been there much sooner than 1.14pm anyway
He didnt leave his rooming house until 1.03pm
There are so many conflicting witnesses at the JD crime scene
I prefer to not get bogged down in it
We all know Mrs Markham changed her story more than once
perhaps we are cherry picking witnesses that suit our version of events?
How long do you think it took DB to use the police radio after the murder?
Hey Breadman do you have a link to your personal theory please?
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Markham is known to be unreliable at best....
That really isn't true. Researcher Dale Meyers did a thorough check on her and Helen Markham was a allegrophobic. That is a fancy name for a punctuality freak. Her friends and family were interviewed about that. In her interview by Mark Lane [which he recorded] she told him .... that she was at the police station and she identified Oswald as the person who had shot Officer Tippit in the lineup, including three other persons. She said no one pointed Oswald out to her, and she said she was just shown four people, and she picked Oswald. She said when he asked her how she could identify him, she said she was able to identify him because of his clothing, a gray jacket and dark trousers."
Mr. BALL. Well, the man that you identified as the number 2 man in the lineup in the police station, you identified him as the man you had seen shoot Officer Tippit?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Oswald stood in the lineup all beaten black and blue and in a T shirt no jacket along with 3 cops in suits. Which guy was the obvious suspect?
Eddie...your obviously new at this.... tread carefully with assumptions.
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Like I've said over and over
There are so many conflicting witnesses at the JD crime scene
I prefer to not get bogged down in it
"your obviously new at this.... tread carefully with assumptions. "
An assumption of your own?
are you trying to be ironic?
IMO she is unreliable
She picked Oswald out because of police gesturing?
and in the same breath you say she is a reliable witness?
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Was the WR a cover up?
I think this question answer's itself
The sitting president of the US himself did not believe in the MBT.
The majority of Americans do not believe in it's lone gunman conclusion
The final HSCA's ruling was a probable conspiracy
I am not sure what my opinions or POV can really add to all that
---------------------------------------------------------------
Was the DPD involved?
IMO the evidence suggests that individuals within the DPD were involved
in this crime.
-The LHO murder
The cops know Ruby.They also know he is not a reporter.Nobody say's "hey jack,what are you doing here?" He loiters around the DPD waiting for his opportunity.Does he keep a low profile? No he answers questions.He has been arrested multiple times for carrying a firearm.He is known to police.personally.
-The rooming house
It is widely accepted by both sides of this debate that Mrs Roberts
Saw a police car pull up outside LHO's rooming house 1/2 an hour after JFK
was hit beep the horn.This evidence is quickly dismissed by the DPD who say they had to no cars in the area at that time.This is evidence of police knowledge and one of the single most overlooked and understated piece's of evidence in this case IMO.
-The Investigation
Well I think most people know the open and shut nature of this case
as described by the DPD and the DA.I don't need to go deeper into this.When you say "moral certainty" regarding his guilt on television I think your POV is clear.
The trial would have been interesting with everyone announcing his guilt before 24 hours had even elapsed. "He acted alone"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that the HSCA confirm a probable conspiracy defies the DPD investigation and therefore asks serious questions about it's competency at best.Complicity at worst.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck cherry picking
So if the Warren Commission (and members within the Dallas Police Department) were in on the cover up, why do we see Bowley's affidavit saying that he arrived at 1:10? If there was a cover up and Oswald couldn't have been at Tenth and Patton as early as 1:10, none of us would have ever laid our eyes on Bowley's affidavit.
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Oswald stood in the lineup all beaten black and blue and in a T shirt no jacket along with 3 cops in suits.
No. Just. No.
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What does your Oswald timeline look like Mr Brown?
Please enlighten us
Bowrey's affidavit proves no corruption?
1 statement exonerates the entire WR and the DPD?
and destroy's all the evidence I have offered
I don't think so - you can do better than that
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In my younger years, I was a daily user of public transportation. When you need to rely on a bus or a train to get to work or school, you make it your business to commit the transit schedule to memory and before you know it, you are into a daily routine that you rarely, if ever, deviate from. Helen Markham was clearly not a great witness - but she had a job that she had to arrive at within a certain time frame that required her to board a bus that left from her bus stop at a particular time each day - that time was prior to 1:15 - the fact that she was a block away from her bus stop and witnessed the murder at 10th and Patton goes a long way in exonerating Lee Harvey Oswald of the Tippit killing. When you add Markham's testimony about her bus schedule to Bowley's checking of his watch, one cannot come to any conclusion other than the inescapable one that Tippit was killed prior to 1:10 - closer to 1:06 - 1:08 - thus making Oswald's trek from his rooming house to 10th and Patton highly unlikely and perhaps impossible.
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.... why do we see Bowley's affidavit saying that he arrived at 1:10?
It tells us that if we close our eyes, ignore it, and pretend it doesn't exist...maybe it will all go away.
It seems to have worked well enough.
Oswald stood in the lineup all beaten black and blue and in a T shirt no jacket along with 3 cops in suits.
Posted by: Bill Brown....no no no
yes yes yes (https://jfkscoup.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/lholineup.png?w=616)
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In my younger years, I was a daily user of public transportation. When you need to rely on a bus or a train to get to work or school, you make it your business to commit the transit schedule to memory and before you know it, you are into a daily routine that you rarely, if ever, deviate from. Helen Markham was clearly not a great witness - but she had a job that she had to arrive at within a certain time frame that required her to board a bus that left from her bus stop at a particular time each day - that time was prior to 1:15 - the fact that she was a block away from her bus stop and witnessed the murder at 10th and Patton goes a long way in exonerating Lee Harvey Oswald of the Tippit killing. When you add Markham's testimony about her bus schedule to Bowley's checking of his watch, one cannot come to any conclusion other than the inescapable one that Tippit was killed prior to 1:10 - closer to 1:06 - 1:08 - thus making Oswald's trek from his rooming house to 10th and Patton highly unlikely and perhaps impossible.
Poor dumb cop.
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Mr Brewer and Mr Bugliosi have Oswald at Hardy's at 1.15pm regardless
So it doesn't really matter If JD was shot between 1.10pm and 1.15pm
Either way LHO could not have done it
not If he's on West Jefferson at 1.15pm
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Poor dumb cop.
Another drive-by, vacuous post
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your Silence speaks volumes
sssshhhhh...
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Mr Brewer and Mr Bugliosi have Oswald at Hardy's at 1.15pm regardless
So it doesn't really matter If JD was shot between 1.10pm and 1.15pm
Either way LHO could not have done it
not If he's on West Jefferson at 1.15pm
Mystery guest #2
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In my younger years, I was a daily user of public transportation. When you need to rely on a bus or a train to get to work or school, you make it your business to commit the transit schedule to memory and before you know it, you are into a daily routine that you rarely, if ever, deviate from. Helen Markham was clearly not a great witness - but she had a job that she had to arrive at within a certain time frame that required her to board a bus that left from her bus stop at a particular time each day - that time was prior to 1:15 - the fact that she was a block away from her bus stop and witnessed the murder at 10th and Patton goes a long way in exonerating Lee Harvey Oswald of the Tippit killing. When you add Markham's testimony about her bus schedule to Bowley's checking of his watch, one cannot come to any conclusion other than the inescapable one that Tippit was killed prior to 1:10 - closer to 1:06 - 1:08 - thus making Oswald's trek from his rooming house to 10th and Patton highly unlikely and perhaps impossible.
Hi Joe, You may be interested in listening to Domingo Benavides tell what he saw at the time officer Tippit was shot.
Here's a link to a youtube video....
Very early in the video he refers to the killer as "this other man" ...Since the video was filmed in about 1965 Mr Benevides certainly knew that " this other man" was commonly known as Lee Harvey Oswald.... So WHY wouldn't Benavides simply have said " Oswald shot him" ???
The answer is obvious....Benavides KNEW that Lee Oswald was not the killer.
Also in the video Benavides describes the killer unloading the revolver and tossing a couple of shells in the bushes and looking directly at Benevides, so there's no doubt that Benavides got a excellent look at the killer's face. ... And Benavides is NOT describing the unloading of a S&W revolver.....
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Hi Joe, You may be interested in listening to Domingo Benavides tell what he saw at the time officer Tippit was shot.
Here's a link to a youtube video....
Very early in the video he refers to the killer as "this other man" ...Since the video was filmed in about 1965 Mr Benevides certainly knew that " this other man" was commonly known as Lee Harvey Oswald.... So WHY wouldn't Benavides simply have said " Oswald shot him" ???
The answer is obvious....Benavides KNEW that Lee Oswald was not the killer.
Also in the video Benavides describes the killer unloading the revolver and tossing a couple of shells in the bushes and looking directly at Benevides, so there's no doubt that Benavides got a excellent look at the killer's face. ... And Benavides is NOT describing the unloading of a S&W revolver.....
More to the point, he didn't know Oswald's name at the time
Seems to me an honest and fair approach on Benavides' part.
Riiiiiight!!..... Dom Benavides was involved as a prime witness...and you actually believe that he wouldn't have know that Lee Oswald was the man who was known ( falsely) world wide as the assassin of JFK. IOW...Literally everybody knew the name Lee Harvey Oswald. Well,everybody except Benavides.... who was probably more attuned to the case than 99% of the population.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, Chappie?
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Now we are getting somewhere
Mr Benavides the most reliable witness at this scene was close enough to see the killer throw the shells in a bush. The other eyewitness testimony from the JD scene is confused at best IMO.He refused to ID Oswald.Look at where the vehicles are situated - this is as they were on the day.Very close.
For me the most credible witness at the scene
He even collected shells for police
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Now we are getting somewhere
Mr Benavides the most reliable witness at this scene was close enough to see the killer throw the shells in a bush. The other eyewitness testimony from the JD scene is confused at best IMO.He refused to ID Oswald.Look at where the vehicles are situated - this is as they were on the day.Very close.
For me the most credible witness at the scene
He even collected shells for police
I agree...Dom Benavides was THE prime witness....He saw the murder,... He looked directly into the face of the killer....He saw and described, the action taken by the killer in unloading the revolver ( It was NOT a S&W)
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Riiiiiight!!..... Dom Benavides was involved as a prime witness...and you actually believe that he wouldn't have know that Lee Oswald was the man who was known ( falsely) world wide as the assassin of JFK. IOW...Literally everybody knew the name Lee Harvey Oswald. Well,everybody except Benavides.... who was probably more attuned to the case than 99% of the population.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, Chappie?
I enjoy observing yours, Waldo.
It's on full display yet again:
Answer this: Did DomB know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Tell us just how more fair he could he have been to Oswald, given that he himself said he couldn't have been sure in identifying Oswald in a lineup that day...
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Maybe DB just had
I-N-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y
(the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles)
unlike most of the other JD witnesses who crumbled quickly under DPD pressure
Did DB know Oswald? god don't be so ridiculous
construct a decent argument
Don't just throw crap around and see what sticks
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Let me help you guys
You see you need 10-15 minutes for LHO to have done this crime
Now you can't go back 10 - that makes it too soon for LHO to get there
you must go 10-15 minutes forward (move the timeline)
The DPD tried doing that with the JB and JP affidavits sighting LHO at 1.30pm
At the TT. (which strangely nobody has mentioned on this thread)
you LN'ers are trying to move the timeline back - that will not work
So,when I see JB and Mr Bugliosi openly say @1.15pm at Hardy's
That interests me.
and started this thread
your welcome
-------------------------------------
DB getting on the police radio timestamps the murder at @1.16 pm (WR)
every cop in the force heard it and knows the approx time of the murder
The DPD are now "locked in" to that time- nobody thought of that
now the police must work around that timestamp - things start going wrong
fot the DPD version of events as to timing.
That's what happened.
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I enjoy observing yours, Waldo.
It's on full display yet again:
Answer this: Did DomB know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Tell us just how more fair he could he have been to Oswald, given that he himself said he couldn't have been sure in identifying Oswald in a lineup that day...
Did Dom B know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Commonsense would dictate that Dom did NOT know the name of the killer....He "MAY" have recognized him from some prior encounter, but I doubt that he knew the man's name. His life wouldn't have been worth a copper cent if he knew the killer.
It's entirely possible that Dom's brother was killed because he was mistaken for Dom....
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C'mon billie boy
don't bring no more weak sauce though
bring your "A" game
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I enjoy observing yours, Waldo.
It's on full display yet again:
Answer this: Did DomB know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Tell us just how more fair he could he have been to Oswald, given that he himself said he couldn't have been sure in identifying Oswald in a lineup that day...
Do you revel in making a fool of yourself, Chappie?
Tell us just how more fair he could he have been to Oswald, given that he himself said he couldn't have been sure in identifying Oswald in a lineup that day...
The FACT is, we don't know exactly what Benavides told the DPD on the afternoon of the murder....BUT we do know that the all of the other witnesses who saw a man leaving the scene were considered "witnesses" and they had no choice about viewing a line up.... But you believe that Dom Benavides who has told us that he faced the killer face to face and saw him clearly, was give a choice about viewing a line up, and was excused because "he couldn't be sure" .... What are you using for a brain?...
Perhaps you can recall Helen Markham.... She certainly didn't want to go to the line up and she clearly said that she didn't recognize anybody in the line up....
It's obvious to me that the police did not want Benavides to view a line up, and I believe the reason they did not want him on record is because he had seen Lee Oswald on TV and like Howard Brennan, KNEW that Lee Oswald was not the killer.
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Here is what I wish could be done----The suspect's supposed white jacket allegedly found in that parking lot and was turned in as evidence. Some responsible and honest experts could take DNA from that jacket [still in storage at the Natn'l Archives] and compare it with DNA taken from Oswald's known hair and skin samples :-\
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Here is what I wish could be done----The suspect's supposed white jacket allegedly found in that parking lot and was turned in as evidence. Some responsible and honest experts could take DNA from that jacket [still in storage at the Natn'l Archives] and compare it with DNA taken from Oswald's known hair and skin samples :-\
honest experts
Now THAT would be something different in this case.
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I would like the texas theatre phone records to see
exactly when Mrs Postal called the DPD
and solve that crime
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Let me help you guys
You see you need 10-15 minutes for LHO to have done this crime
Now you can't go back 10 - that makes it too soon for LHO to get there
you must go 10-15 minutes forward (move the timeline)
The DPD tried doing that with the JB and JP affidavits sighting LHO at 1.30pm
At the TT. (which strangely nobody has mentioned on this thread)
you LN'ers are trying to move the timeline back - that will not work
So,when I see JB and Mr Bugliosi openly say @1.15pm at Hardy's
That interests me.
and started this thread
your welcome
-------------------------------------
DB getting on the police radio timestamps the murder at @1.16 pm (WR)
every cop in the force heard it and knows the approx time of the murder
The DPD are now "locked in" to that time- nobody thought of that
now the police must work around that timestamp - things start going wrong
fot the DPD version of events as to timing.
That's what happened.
what say you?
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I would like the texas theatre phone records to see
exactly when Mrs Postal called the DPD
Well Eddie, just like a Tx. Theater bag of popcorn and Snickers bar from that same day...phone records are long gone. But that white jacket is still stashed away and I want to see it along with a lab guy. So who's with me?
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Maybe DB just had
I-N-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y
(the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles)
unlike most of the other JD witnesses who crumbled quickly under DPD pressure
Did DB know Oswald? god don't be so ridiculous
construct a decent argument
Don't just throw crap around and see what sticks
Did DB know Oswald?
>>> AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME
The answer is in his statement calling (who turned out to be) Oswald 'the other guy'
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Did DB know Oswald?
>>> AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME
The answer is in his statement calling (who turned out to be) Oswald 'the other guy'
omg you doubling down?
is that the very best you can do?
super weak sauce
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Do you revel in making a fool of yourself, Chappie?
Tell us just how more fair he could he have been to Oswald, given that he himself said he couldn't have been sure in identifying Oswald in a lineup that day...
The FACT is, we don't know exactly what Benavides told the DPD on the afternoon of the murder....BUT we do know that the all of the other witnesses who saw a man leaving the scene were considered "witnesses" and they had no choice about viewing a line up.... But you believe that Dom Benavides who has told us that he faced the killer face to face and saw him clearly, was give a choice about viewing a line up, and was excused because "he couldn't be sure" .... What are you using for a brain?...
Perhaps you can recall Helen Markham.... She certainly didn't want to go to the line up and she clearly said that she didn't recognize anybody in the line up....
It's obvious to me that the police did not want Benavides to view a line up, and I believe the reason they did not want him on record is because he had seen Lee Oswald on TV and like Howard Brennan, KNEW that Lee Oswald was not the killer.
For lineup starters:
Markham: #2
Callaway: #2
(Dirty Harvey being mystery guest #2)
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omg you doubling down?
is that the very best you can do?
super weak sauce
I think you lot are on the sauce
Do you not understand my point? Maybe scroll back to my initial reply to Waldo regarding what I'll call his back-to-the-future nonsense re DomB's 1965 (?) interview referring to Oswald generically.
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Do you not understand my point? Maybe scroll back to my initial reply to Waldo regarding what I'll call his back-to-the-future nonsense.
Apparently you think Benavides could have IDed Lee Oswald ..... But you're an idiot and a fool Chappie.
You asked a really stupid question....Did Dom B know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Commonsense would dictate that Dom did NOT know the name of the killer....He "MAY" have recognized him from some prior encounter, but I doubt that he knew the man's name. His life wouldn't have been worth a copper cent if he knew the killer.
In the Video , which was filmed a couple of years after the murder....Everybody in the world knew the name of Lee Harvey Oswald....but how did Benavides Identify the man?.... Did he say Oswald shot him??
No !! He did NOT!.... Benavides identified the killer as quote: "This other man" ...
You're dumber than a garden slug ...Chappie.
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do you understand the point of this thread?
how can anybody ID LHO when he is at Hardy's shoe's
at @1.15 pm?
I have 5 good witnesses that put LHO in the TT
before 1.20pm
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do you understand the point of this thread?
how can you ID LHO when he is at Hardy's
at @1.15 pm?
I have 5 good witnesses that put LHO in the TT
before 1.20pm
You are doing what RoboCall does in order to avoid answering a direct question. Just hand wave difficult questions by claiming 'off topic' These threads cross-pollinate, you have to get used to that.
Oswald arrives at Hardy's by 1:35
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
Oswald arrested at TT by 1:50
That's my understanding
I guess you lot will have to decide for yourselves whether that info is faked, planted or altered.
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You are doing what RoboCall does in order to avoid answering a direct question. Just hand wave difficult questions by claiming 'off topic' These threads cross-pollinate, you have to get used to that.
Oswald arrives at Hardy's by 1:35
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
Oswald arrested at TT by 1:50
That's my understanding
I guess you lot will have to decide for yourselves whether that info is faked, planted or altered.
atta boy you're pushing the time forward
now you're gettin it
So you ignore Mr Bugliosi and JB on the page 1 video saying 1.15pm?
You ignore the fact that JB says he never heard of JFK's death on the radio
that was broadcast between 1.20-1.30pm onwards all day
you ignore JB saying he went to see what the police cars were doing outside
about the time LHO showed up (@1.16pm)
You ignore Mr Davis's evidence LHO was sitting before the film starts at 1.20pm
Chief Curry himself puts LHO's arrest at @ 1.15pm
Apart from police radio dispatch records
What evidence do YOU have regarding time?
Thats just off the top - I have much more
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Apparently you think Benavides could have IDed Lee Oswald ..... But you're an idiot and a fool Chappie.
You asked a really stupid question....Did Dom B know the name of the 'other guy' AT THE TIME HE WAS OBSERVING THE CRIME, OR NOT?
Commonsense would dictate that Dom did NOT know the name of the killer....He "MAY" have recognized him from some prior encounter, but I doubt that he knew the man's name. His life wouldn't have been worth a copper cent if he knew the killer.
In the Video , which was filmed a couple of years after the murder....Everybody in the world knew the name of Lee Harvey Oswald....but how did Benavides Identify the man?.... Did he say Oswald shot him??
No !! He did NOT!.... Benavides identified the killer as quote: "This other man" ...
You're dumber than a garden slug ...Chappie.
'Apparent' only to you. Change your meds, Grampa.
Point out where I claim DB 'could have' ID'd Oswald.
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'Apparent' only to you.
No - I think that too sluggo
Back here - focus
focus
answer my TT timing questions please
There's a good gentleman
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No - I think that too sluggo
>>> 'Sluggo'... me? LOL... you're the one calling yourself 'Haymaker'. Can you not connect anything at all? And point out where I claim that DB 'could have' ID'd Oswald by name during the time of the murder.
answer my TT timing questions please
>>> First cite Bugliosi and Brewer claiming 1:15 as Oswald's arrival at Hardy's
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He is telling a story that starts at 1.15pm
he listens on the radio
he hears sirens outside
He goes to investigate
LHO arrives
it's all simultaneous
Obviously within 1 minute or 2
what you think it takes 20 minutes for that?
you have him there at 1.35
No Bueno
What about your evidence? you offer nothing
That is one small part of the evidence I provided you
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Oswald stood in the lineup all beaten black and blue and in a T shirt no jacket along with 3 cops in suits.
No. Just. No.
yes yes yes
(https://jfkscoup.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/lholineup.png?w=616)
It's amazing to me that you really believe that Oswald was placed in a lineup alongside men in suits.
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Mr Brown what does your JD timeline look like?
You seem to be the man with the answers on this site
What time do you place LHO at Hardy's?
What time was JD shot?
Thankyou
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'Apparent' only to you. Change your meds, Grampa.
Point out where I claim DB 'could have' ID'd Oswald.
Walt----Apparently you think Benavides could have IDed Lee Oswald ..... But you're an idiot and a fool Chappie.
Chappie----'Apparent' only to you.
Point out where I claim DB 'could have' ID'd Oswald.
If that wasn't the point that you were sniveling about, ...then just what the hell were you whimpering about.
The only other way it could be interpreted is, that You, The Fool, Chapman are saying that you recognize that Dom Benavides could have named the murderer who was not Lee Oswald.
Is that what you blathering about Chappie?
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You are doing what RoboCall does in order to avoid answering a direct question. Just hand wave difficult questions by claiming 'off topic' These threads cross-pollinate, you have to get used to that.
Oswald arrives at Hardy's by 1:35
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
Oswald arrested at TT by 1:50
That's my understanding
I guess you lot will have to decide for yourselves whether that info is faked, planted or altered.
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
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Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
Nah... more likely a Dr. Pepper
-
By 1.27pm multiple police units on west/east Jefferson
(the police radio directs police to east Jefferson)
Units are actively searching for a suspect on foot east/west Jefferson
How he strolls past all those cops?
It takes him @20 minutes to walk the 10 minute walk
through all those officers
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me help you LNers out
LHO arrives at 1.11pm & shoots JDT
A witness see's him leave 1.10pm (his watch is 90 secs slow)
1.12pm he dumps his jacket
You just murdered a cop RUN
Now LHO is sprinting as fast as he can from East to West Jefferson
He runs twice as fast as walking so is there in 1/2 the time
He runs across the intersection to West Jefferson
He hears distant sirens approaching from the city
Tucks his gun in and walks towards Hardy's arriving at 1.17 pm
Just in time for patrol cars to react outside to a citizen on police radio
(They know car 10 and dont wait for instructions from dispatch)
JB say's "He looks like he'd been running"
Oswald wipes his brow,looks both ways from the doorwell
Then walks down to the theatre arriving before 1.20 pm
This "LNer version" is the only one that fits ALL the evidence IMO
BTW this is a fictionalised version obviously
and I do not necessarily endorse it's contents
Its theory folks, just theory
IMO there is much more evidence against LHO for the JD crime
than the Assassination by far
Perhaps thats why they charged him with that crime initially.
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Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hide
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By 1.27pm multiple police units on west/east Jefferson
(the police radio directs police to east Jefferson)
Units are actively searching for a suspect on foot east/west Jefferson
How he strolls past all those cops?
It takes him @20 minutes to walk the 10 minute walk
through all those officers
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me help you LNers out
LHO arrives at 1.11pm & shoots JDT
A witness see's him leave 1.10pm (his watch is 90 secs slow)
1.12pm he dumps his jacket
You just murdered a cop RUN
Now LHO is sprinting as fast as he can from East to West Jefferson
He runs twice as fast as walking so is there in 1/2 the time
He runs across the intersection to West Jefferson
He hears distant sirens approaching from the city
Tucks his gun in and walks towards Hardy's arriving at 1.17 pm
Just in time for patrol cars to react outside to a citizen on police radio
(They know car 10 and dont wait for instructions from dispatch)
JB say's "He looks like he'd been running"
Oswald wipes his brow,looks both ways from the doorwell
Then walks down to the theatre arriving before 1.20 pm
This "LNer version" is the only one that fits ALL the evidence IMO
BTW this is a fictionalised version obviously
and I do not necessarily endorse it's contents
Its theory folks, just theory
IMO there is much more evidence against LHO for the JD crime
than the Assassination by far
Perhaps thats why they charged him with that crime initially.
IMO there is much more evidence against LHO for the JD crime
than the Assassination by far
Perhaps thats why they charged him with that crime initially.
Now you're talkin'.
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Nah... more likely a Dr. Pepper
Oh well, at least you don't suggest that he was hiding somewhere, because that would be silly, right?
If he had already found a hiding place, why would he leave it and go down Jefferson to look for another hiding place?
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Oh well, at least you don't suggest that he was hiding somewhere, because that would be silly, right?
If he had already found a hiding place, why would he leave it and go down Jefferson to look for another hiding place?
All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think logically.
-
Even If all that is true
which it may be
He didn't fire the shot that killed Kennedy
There was a conspiracy
-
All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think logically.
All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Now here is a logical thought...
Didn't Oswald ever need use the restroom at some point? After all he's really been on the go right?
Theaters always have had the nicest facilities ;D
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All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Now here is a logical thought...
Didn't Oswald ever need use the restroom at some point? After all he's really been on the go right?
Theaters always have had the nicest facilities ;D
All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Actually, all Bill's ad hominem comment shows is that he hasn't got a credible reply to the question asked.
-
Let me help you LNers out
LHO arrives at 1.11pm & shoots JDT
A witness see's him leave 1.10pm (his watch is 90 secs slow)
1.12pm he dumps his jacket
You just murdered a cop RUN
Now LHO is sprinting as fast as he can from East to West Jefferson
He runs twice as fast as walking so is there in 1/2 the time
He runs across the intersection to West Jefferson
He hears distant sirens approaching from the city
Tucks his gun in and walks towards Hardy's arriving at 1.17 pm
Just in time for patrol cars to react outside to a citizen on police radio
(They know car 10 and dont wait for instructions from dispatch)
JB say's "He looks like he'd been running"
Oswald wipes his brow,looks both ways from the doorwell
Then walks down to the theatre arriving before 1.20 pm
This "LNer version" is the only one that fits ALL the evidence IMO
BTW this is a fictionalised version obviously
and I do not necessarily endorse it's contents
Its theory folks, just theory
IMO there is much more evidence against LHO for the JD crime
than the Assassination by far
Perhaps thats why they charged him with that crime initially.
I got sick of waiting for a LN'er JD timeline
So I made one myself
-
All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Now here is a logical thought...
Didn't Oswald ever need use the restroom at some point? After all he's really been on the go right?
Theaters always have had the nicest facilities ;D
Perhaps Oswald stopped off inside one of the shops on Jefferson looking for a suit, since ya know, he was soon to appear in police lineups alongside other men in suits.
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All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Actually, all Bill's ad hominem comment shows is that he hasn't got a credible reply to the question asked.
My reply was very credible. Just because you cannot think logically (Oswald could have hid somewhere for ten or fifteen minutes) doesn't mean others cannot.
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People demonstrating delusions of grandeur frequently convince themselves that their arguments are more logical and credible than those of others, but they fail to understand that their arguments are only mere opinions which others might accept as logical and credible if and when they make sense to them. Claiming from the outset that those others are incapable of thinking logically only exposes the extend of the delusion.
To such a person it, of course, makes perfect sense that somebody would leave a hide out to expose themselves to a busy street full of police cars going up and down in search for another hide out.
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Perhaps Oswald stopped off inside one of the shops on Jefferson looking for a suit, sine ya know, he was soon to appear in police lineups alongside other men in suits.
Perhaps...this morning, someone flushed more contribution down the toilet than you have ever made to this entire forum.
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People demonstrating delusions of grandeur frequently convince themselves that their arguments are more logical and credible than those of others, but they fail to understand that their arguments are only mere opinions which others might accept as logical and credible if and when they make sense to them. Claiming from the outset that those others are incapable of thinking logically only exposes the extend of the delusion.
To such a person it, of course, makes perfect sense that somebody would leave a hide out to expose themselves to a busy street full of police cars going up and down in search for another hide out.
Wait a minute. I thought you lot said Oswald was just out for a walk, on his way to a movie.
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People demonstrating delusions of grandeur frequently convince themselves that their arguments are more logical and credible than those of others, but they fail to understand that their arguments are only mere opinions which others might accept as logical and credible if and when they make sense to them. Claiming from the outset that those others are incapable of thinking logically only exposes the extend of the delusion.
To such a person it, of course, makes perfect sense that somebody would leave a hide out to expose themselves to a busy street full of police cars going up and down in search for another hide out.
You have this whole thing backwards. Look into a mirror.
I jumped in when YOU made some sort of stupid comment asking Bill Chapman, in your typical condescending manner, why it took Oswald so long to reach the theater.
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Oh well, at least you don't suggest that he was hiding somewhere, because that would be silly, right?
If he had already found a hiding place, why would he leave it and go down Jefferson to look for another hiding place?
Sure it would be silly. After all, he was just on his way to see a movie.
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Wait a minute. I thought you lot said Oswald was just out for a walk, on his way to a movie.
Not sure why you would reply to my post with a comment about "you lot". You do understand that only one person wrote that post, right?
As for Oswald being out for a walk, I have never made such a claim. So far, I have only responded to your claim that he arrived at the Texas Theater at 1:40 pm, which justifies the question where you think he was during (at least) 25 minutes....
But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending...... :D.
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All you're really doing right now is showing others that you don't have the ability to think at all.
Actually, all Bill's ad hominem comment shows is that he hasn't got a credible reply to the question asked.
Actually, all Bill's ad hominem comment shows is that he hasn't got a credible reply to the question asked.
It's doubtful that Bill has the material necessary to create a credible reply..... It's impossible to create a plausible reply when the material is like jello....
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Walt----Apparently you think Benavides could have IDed Lee Oswald ..... But you're an idiot and a fool Chappie.
Chappie----'Apparent' only to you.
Point out where I claim DB 'could have' ID'd Oswald.
If that wasn't the point that you were sniveling about, ...then just what the hell were you whimpering about.
The only other way it could be interpreted is, that You, The Fool, Chapman are saying that you recognize that Dom Benavides could have named the murderer who was not Lee Oswald.
Is that what you blathering about Chappie?
Where did I say that?
Stop twisting
And eat your jello
You need a nap
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Hi Joe, You may be interested in listening to Domingo Benavides tell what he saw at the time officer Tippit was shot.
Here's a link to a youtube video....
Very early in the video he refers to the killer as "this other man" ...Since the video was filmed in about 1965 Mr Benevides certainly knew that " this other man" was commonly known as Lee Harvey Oswald.... So WHY wouldn't Benavides simply have said " Oswald shot him" ???
The answer is obvious....Benavides KNEW that Lee Oswald was not the killer.
Also in the video Benavides describes the killer unloading the revolver and tossing a couple of shells in the bushes and looking directly at Benevides, so there's no doubt that Benavides got a excellent look at the killer's face. ... And Benavides is NOT describing the unloading of a S&W revolver.....
WOW!!.... Someone sure as hell didn't want us to hear Dom Benavides refute the idea that the killer was Lee Oswald when he referred to Tippit's murderer as " This other guy"...... They had the video pulled from youtube.
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People demonstrating delusions of grandeur frequently convince themselves that their arguments are more logical and credible than those of others, but they fail to understand that their arguments are only mere opinions which others might accept as logical and credible if and when they make sense to them. Claiming from the outset that those others are incapable of thinking logically only exposes the extend of the delusion.
To such a person it, of course, makes perfect sense that somebody would leave a hide out to expose themselves to a busy street full of police cars going up and down in search for another hide out.
You've just described* newest OswaldFanboy Eddie (Sluggo) Haymaker perfectly. IMHO.
*And in your usual haughty, condescending manner.
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You've just described* newest OswaldFanboy Eddie (Sluggo) Haymaker perfectly. IMHO.
*And in your usual haughty, condescending manner.
Not really the answer to my question if you too find the asking of my initial question condescending, but that's not really a surprise anymore. I didn't really expect to get a straight answer anyway.
*And in your usual haughty, condescending manner.
Oh poor boy... do you feel intimidated or are you just really insecure or could it possibly be both?
Oops, there's me being condescending.... :o
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Not sure why you would reply to my post with a comment about "you lot". You do understand that only one person wrote that post, right?
As for Oswald being out for a walk, I have never made such a claim. So far, I have only responded to your claim that he arrived at the Texas Theater at 1:40 pm, which justifies the question where you think he was during (at least) 25 minutes....
But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending...... :D.
But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending
>>> There you go again.
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place. The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
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But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending
>>> There you go again.
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place. The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
As a test case I asked the question of a 12 year old today:
Why might someone who is hiding decide to leave their hiding place to find another place to hide? Their answer? Maybe because the first hiding place was about to be discovered. I then added to the scenario that the person was hiding from the police and asked again why they might leave and try to find another place to hide. Their answer? Maybe someone saw them hiding and the man hiding knew he'd been seen. I added that police sirens were sounding across the neighborhood and the 12 year old said if the man hiding looked suspicious someone should wave to a police car if it went past and point out the man to them.
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But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending
>>> There you go again.
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place. The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
But perhaps you too find the asking of that question condescending
>>> There you go again.
This is becoming more hilarious by the minute, but let's see if I understand this correctly? You now find it condescending of me to ask you if (as Bill Brown did) you too find that me asking my initial question was condescending. Did I understand you correctly? Or can't I even ask that without running the risk of being called condescending again?
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place.
Could it be that you have never been told that the purpose of asking questions is trying to understand what somebody else is saying? Now, really, how can that be daft?
Let's just remember what the initial "condescending" question was. Here it is again;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are doing what RoboCall does in order to avoid answering a direct question. Just hand wave difficult questions by claiming 'off topic' These threads cross-pollinate, you have to get used to that.
Oswald arrives at Hardy's by 1:35
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
Oswald arrested at TT by 1:50
That's my understanding
I guess you lot will have to decide for yourselves whether that info is faked, planted or altered.
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
It's apparently so obvious that you are unable to provide that answer?.. Go figure!
As a test case I asked the question of a 12 year old today:
Why might someone who is hiding decide to leave their hiding place to find another place to hide? Their answer? Maybe because the first hiding place was about to be discovered. I then added to the scenario that the person was hiding from the police and asked again why they might leave and try to find another place to hide. Their answer? Maybe someone saw them hiding and the man hiding knew he'd been seen. I added that police sirens were sounding across the neighborhood and the 12 year old said if the man hiding looked suspicious someone should wave to a police car if it went past and point out the man to them.
This is kinda funny, because it seems a 12 year old is giving the same answers that I have come to expect from LNs. Btw, before you say it; this is me really being condescending! ;D
Anyway, what the 12 year old came up with is nice speculation based on assumptions but it missed the point of my question entirely. So, I'll try again;
Why would a person who looks suspicious (whatever that means) and is trying to hide from police look for another hiding place by going down a busy shopping street with police cars driving up and down instead of going the other way, for instance in the direction of East Davis Street, where there would be far less people?
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This is becoming more hilarious by the minute, but let's see if I understand this correctly? You now find it condescending of me to ask you if (as Bill Brown did) you too find that me asking my initial question was condescending. Did I understand you correctly? Or can't I even ask that without running the risk of being called condescending again?
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place.
Could it be that you have never been told that the purpose of asking questions is trying to understand what somebody else is saying? Now, really, how can that be daft?
Let's just remember what the initial "condescending" question was. Here it is again;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
It's apparently so obvious that you are unable to provide that answer?.. Go figure!
This is kinda funny, because it seems a 12 year old is giving the same answers that I have come to expect from LNs. Btw, before you say it; this is me really being condescending! ;D
Anyway, what the 12 year old came up with is nice speculation based on assumptions but it missed the point of my question entirely. So, I'll try again;
Why would a person who looks suspicious (whatever that means) and is trying to hide from police look for another hiding place by going down a busy shopping street with police cars driving up and down instead of going the other way, for instance in the direction of East Davis Street, where there would be far less people?
SERE*
*Hint: Oswald was a trained Marine
And wasn't Oswald on his way to meet his handlers at the TT?
You guys want it both ways LOL
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SERE*
*Hint: Oswald was a trained Marine
Another drive-by, vacuous post
*Hint: If Oswald ever had training in evading capture, what do you think he was doing exposing himself on a busy shopping street with police cars all over the place? Do you ever think before you write?
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Another drive-by, vacuous post
*Hint: If Oswald ever had training in evading capture, what do you think he was doing exposing himself on a busy shopping street with police cars all over the place? Do you ever think before you write?
Hint: Evasion tactics can include blending into a crowd if necessary.
And it seems to me it's the cops who made the vacuous drive-by here. ;)
Oh, btw a slight timeline correction:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQq4t4RB/brewer-one.png)
Brewer states that just before Oswald showed up, at 1:34, an
announcement came on the radio saying a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXMThg2Z/Brewer-two.png)
Oswald arrived at the TT at 1:39
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Hint: Evasion tactics can include blending into a crowd if necessary.
And it seems to me it's the cops who made the vacuous drive-by here. ;)
Hint: Evasion tactics can include blending into a crowd if necessary.
If Johnny Brewer is to be believed; so much for that training (and logic), right?..... Thumb1:
Can we please start talking about the weather or something, because the pain of laughing too much is quickly becoming unbearable.
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Hint: Evasion tactics can include blending into a crowd if necessary.
If Johnny Brewer is to be believed; so much for that training (and logic), right?..... Thumb1:
Can we please start talking about the weather or something, because the pain of laughing too much is quickly becoming unbearable.
The fugitive made it all the way to Hardy's. He got by everybody including your shoppers and the DPD
Thanks to the shoe salesman, the funny-looking guy came up short.
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Bugliosi and Brewer say 1.15pm
Say what?
Brewer never once uttered 1:15 PM. In his earliest sworn statement, he said "About 1:30 pm I saw a man standing in the lobby of the shoe store." He had the radio turned on, likely tuned to KBOX station, and at about 1:31 pm heard that a police officer had been shot in Oak Cliff. A few minutes after hearing that, Oswald appeared in the lobby of the store.
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please watch the vid page 1
and read the posts - we cover that
JB's affidavit was 2 weeks after the fact
and full of inconsistency's
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please watch the vid page 1
and read the posts - we cover that
JB's affidavit was 2 weeks after the fact
and full of inconsistency's
The film footage in that video was 23 years after the fact. Bugliosi was not being precise with the timing.
What are the inconsistencies in the affidavit? Why should we adopt the imprecise language, and knowingly inaccurate timing , used by Bugliosi over the sworn statement given by Brewer on Dec 6,1963?
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well, this is key
In his testimony he says he never heard that JFK had died (until a secret service man tells him at the TT arrest and it was just a rumour and not confirmed)
Now between 1pm and 1.30 the world was waiting (especially in Dallas)
for the news.
JB had the radio on and never heard the news
A priest was confirmed to have arrived to see JFK at around 1.20pm
His death was officially confirmed at around 1.25 onward all day
but JB never heard that on the radio
There is much more evidence than that
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well, this is key
In his testimony he says he never heard that JFK had died (until a secret service man tells him at the TT arrest and it was just a rumour and not confirmed)
Now between 1pm and 1.30 the world was waiting (especially in Dallas)
for the news.
JB had the radio on and never heard the news
A priest was confirmed to have arrived to see JFK at around 1.20pm
His death was officially confirmed at around 1.25 onward all day
but JB never heard that on the radio
There is much more evidence than that
The official announcement that the President had died was made at 1:35 Pm. The radio would have reported that within a minute or two I'm sure. At the time that the radio was reporting it, Brewer was no longer in the store and he never had the radio with him. He was following Oswald. Julia Postal was listening to KLIF on a little transistor radio and she stated in her Dec 4, 1963 affidavit that they had just announced that President Kennedy was dead when Oswald ducked into the theater.
There is much more evidence than that.
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actually false
read again
she says about the time she heard
chaos broke out (LHO arrest)
tell the truth
you say 1.35? proof please (iI disagree)
I have timed it myself
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actually false
read again
she says about the time she heard
chaos broke out (LHO arrest)
tell the truth
you say 1.35? proof please (iI disagree)
I have timed it myself
What are you reading?
"At approximately 1:30 PM or a little later I was working in the ticket office at the theater. I was listening to my transistor radio, and KLIF had just announced that President Kennedy was dead. I had just seen a police car go west on Jefferson. As the police went by, a man ducked into the theater." -- From the signed affidavit of Julia Postal, Dec 4, 1963.
Re announcement of death:
https://static.lib.virginia.edu/JFK/
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I gave you the ONLY timeline that fits the evidence
There are dozens of holes If he turns up that late
It takes him 20 minutes to walk a 10 minute walk
through all those patrol cars merging on East Jefferson?
searching for a male suspect on foot
Because he's a ninja right?
you can lead a horse to water
but you can't make it grow a brain
Ducking into the Hardy's lobby seems to have been an effective tactic in at least temporarily avoiding detection.
The documentary Timeline to the Texas Theater interview has Brewer describing the fugitive as arriving just shortly after the radio report of a patrolman having been shot in Oak Cliff. This coincides with Brewer confirming Bugiosi's query about hearing the report 'about 45 minutes after the assassination'.
In no way do I claim Brewer was responsible for the time on the screen.
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well, this is key
In his testimony he says he never heard that JFK had died (until a secret service man tells him at the TT arrest and it was just a rumour and not confirmed)
Now between 1pm and 1.30 the world was waiting (especially in Dallas)
for the news.
JB had the radio on and never heard the news
A priest was confirmed to have arrived to see JFK at around 1.20pm
His death was officially confirmed at around 1.25 onward all day
but JB never heard that on the radio
There is much more evidence than that
JB had the radio on and never heard the news
>>> So what if it wasn't confirmed until later? He knew Kennedy had been shot
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As a test case I asked the question of a 12 year old today:
Why might someone who is hiding decide to leave their hiding place to find another place to hide? Their answer? Maybe because the first hiding place was about to be discovered. I then added to the scenario that the person was hiding from the police and asked again why they might leave and try to find another place to hide. Their answer? Maybe someone saw them hiding and the man hiding knew he'd been seen. I added that police sirens were sounding across the neighborhood and the 12 year old said if the man hiding looked suspicious someone should wave to a police car if it went past and point out the man to them.
So, a twelve year old gets it but Weidmann does not. Interesting but not surprising.
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This is becoming more hilarious by the minute, but let's see if I understand this correctly? You now find it condescending of me to ask you if (as Bill Brown did) you too find that me asking my initial question was condescending. Did I understand you correctly? Or can't I even ask that without running the risk of being called condescending again?
Questioning why Oswald might take more time than would be normally expected, given the distance, is a daft question in the first place.
Could it be that you have never been told that the purpose of asking questions is trying to understand what somebody else is saying? Now, really, how can that be daft?
Let's just remember what the initial "condescending" question was. Here it is again;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oswald arrives at the TT by 1:40
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer to that is abundantly obvious.
It's apparently so obvious that you are unable to provide that answer?.. Go figure!
This is kinda funny, because it seems a 12 year old is giving the same answers that I have come to expect from LNs. Btw, before you say it; this is me really being condescending! ;D
Anyway, what the 12 year old came up with is nice speculation based on assumptions but it missed the point of my question entirely. So, I'll try again;
Why would a person who looks suspicious (whatever that means) and is trying to hide from police look for another hiding place by going down a busy shopping street with police cars driving up and down instead of going the other way, for instance in the direction of East Davis Street, where there would be far less people?
This is becoming more hilarious by the minute, but let's see if I understand this correctly? You now find it condescending of me to ask you if (as Bill Brown did) you too find that me asking my initial question was condescending. Did I understand you correctly? Or can't I even ask that without running the risk of being called condescending again?
I did not say that it was condescending of you to ask the question. I clearly said that you asked it in your typical condescending manner.
Why do these things need to be explained to you time and time again?
Have a look...
So, it must also be your understanding that Oswald needed at least 25 minutes to cover the short distance between 10th/Patton and the Texas Theater? Really?
What do you think happened? Did he stop for a coffee?
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The documentary Timeline to the Texas Theater interview has Brewer describing the fugitive as arriving just shortly after the radio report of a patrolman having been shot in Oak Cliff. This coincides with Brewer confirming Bugiosi's query about hearing the report 'about 45 minutes after the assassination'.
In no way do I claim Brewer was responsible for the time on the screen.
You Said"Brewer states that just before Oswald showed up, at 1:34, an
announcement came on the radio saying a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff. "
Which is a lie - A documentary is NOT evidence :D
---------------------------
How many times do I have to tell you guys the same goddamn thing?
The news of an officer shot did not come out until around 1.50pm
Roughly 30 minutes after the event on KLIF (again I have timed it)
There are no reporters at Methodist hospital
So JFK is pronounced dead at @1pm
It takes about 38 minutes for that news to be broadcast live on TV.
AND THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT - (roughly 30 minutes)
He also say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
which is also false
If you have proof to prove me wrong please show me
LISTEN FOR YOURSELF on the KLIF broadcast
search youtube KLIF-RADIO (11/22/63) (LONGER VERSION, WITH UNEDITED MUSIC)
22.22 - Leaving Love Field 11.50pm
1.16.16 - JFK shot reported at around 12.45pm
1.53.48 - last rites given death not official 1.24 pm
1.57.57 - Strong indication he is dead 1.28 pm
2.05.29 - Official JFK dead 1.35 pm
2.14.45 - Shot through the right temple.this was a surprise. They also mention the grassy knoll. 1.43 pm.
2.25.52 - First Reports Police Officer shot 1.55 pm.
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What are you reading?
"At approximately 1:30 PM or a little later I was working in the ticket office at the theater. I was listening to my transistor radio, and KLIF had just announced that President Kennedy was dead. I had just seen a police car go west on Jefferson. As the police went by, a man ducked into the theater." -- From the signed affidavit of Julia Postal, Dec 4, 1963.
Re announcement of death:
https://static.lib.virginia.edu/JFK/
Does anybody do any research anymore?
Mrs. POSTAL I was listening to KLIF, and I was down in the little box office, and they kept saying that Parkland hadn't issued an official report, that he had been removed from the operating table, and everyone wanted to surmise, but still hope, and it was after this that they came out and said that he was officially dead.
Mr. BALL But, you didn't hear that when you were in the box office, did you?
Mrs. POSTAL Yes, I did. In fact, I was just about----it was just about the time all chaos broke loose. (1.35 pm)
WC-Testimony
The official news came at around 1.35 pm. So Mrs Postal must be talking about chaos as the time LHO is bundled out of there. According to the DPD he is not arrested until between 1.45 - 1.52 pm. Hardly ?about that time?
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Does anybody do any research anymore?
Mrs. POSTAL I was listening to KLIF, and I was down in the little box office, and they kept saying that Parkland hadn't issued an official report, that he had been removed from the operating table, and everyone wanted to surmise, but still hope, and it was after this that they came out and said that he was officially dead.
Mr. BALL But, you didn't hear that when you were in the box office, did you?
Mrs. POSTAL Yes, I did. In fact, I was just about----it was just about the time all chaos broke loose. (1.35 pm)
WC-Testimony
The official news came at around 1.35 pm. So Mrs Postal must be talking about chaos as the time LHO is bundled out of there. According to the DPD he is not arrested until between 1.45 - 1.52 pm. Hardly ?about that time?
How do you know that Postal isn't referring to "just about the time all the chaos broke loose" as the time she was first approached by Brewer, which absolutely coincided with the time she noticed all of the police cars racing up and down Jefferson?
You basically say that Postal, by using the word "chaos", is most definitely referring to the event of "Oswald is bundled out of there".
Quite simply, you have no way of knowing what she meant by "chaos".
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Well,what seems more chaotic to you? 20 officers dragging LHO out?
Or him quietly ducking into the theatre?
Because your version does not fit all the other supporting evidence
1.35 pm arrest does
Why would JB lie on pg1 of this thread then?
they say this series of events starts at 1.15pm
another piece that fits
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Because it does not fit all the other supporting evidence
1.35 pm does
Why would JB lie on pg1 of this thread then?
they say this series of events starts at 1.15pm
another piece that fits
So, you're holding Brewer to most definitely saying that the series of events started at 1:15. I think that's faulty. Did you not read Tim Nickerson's posts to you, regarding this?
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Well,what seems more chaotic to you? 20 officers dragging LHO out?
Or him quietly ducking into the theatre?
Because your version does not fit all the other supporting evidence
1.35 pm does
Why would JB lie on pg1 of this thread then?
they say this series of events starts at 1.15pm
another piece that fits
"Just about the time all the chaos broke loose."
Again, you have it in your head what you think she meant by that. In reality, you have no way of knowing for sure, pretend as you might.
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ITS AS CLEAR AS DAY HE SAY"S 1.15pm these events started
he listens to the radio
he looks out the window to see the cops reacting (first police reactions to the JD murder ) LHO appears
(according for your version cops have been going up and down West Jefferson for over 10 minutes already but JB fails to mention that)
Its a simultaneous series of events OBVIOUSLY
You are trying to say it takes JB 20 minutes to get to the TT from Hardy's
because he does say 1.15pm at the start, Its no mistake
Which is simply laughable
come on now, shave some minutes off sure,Im reasonable
but 20 MINUTES? How can you explain that? you can't
Did he try on some shoes? LOL
:D :D :D :D
Your version 1.35 at the TT does NOT hold water
It's like swiss cheese
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ITS AS CLEAR AS DAY HE SAY"S 1.15pm these events started
he listens to the radio
he looks out the window to see the cops reacting (first police reactions to the JD murder ) LHO appears
(according for your version cops have been going up and down West Jefferson for over 10 minutes already but JB fails to mention that)
Its a simultaneous series of events OBVIOUSLY
You are trying to say it takes JB 20 minutes to get to the TT from Hardy's
because he does say 1.15pm at the start, Its no mistake
Which is simply laughable
come on now, shave some minutes off sure,Im reasonable
but 20 MINUTES? How can you explain that? you can't
Did he try on some shoes? LOL
:D :D :D :D
Your version 1.35 at the TT does NOT hold water
It's like swiss cheese
You're not making sense.
In the 1986 Showtime trial, Bugliosi says "about forty-five minutes after the assassination, around 1:15 p.m."
Brewer says he was listening to the radio and heard the news of a police officer being shot in the area.
Since we know the shooting of Tippit was not announced over the air at that point in time, it should be painfully obvious to you that 1:15 p.m. was NOT the correct time that Brewer saw Oswald.
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Its painfully obvious because I've told you 20 times
you're not making sense
are you now saying he see's LHO at 1.50 pm?
when the JD news comes out?
can you stop changing your story
mine is on the OP
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Does anybody do any research anymore?
Mrs. POSTAL I was listening to KLIF, and I was down in the little box office, and they kept saying that Parkland hadn't issued an official report, that he had been removed from the operating table, and everyone wanted to surmise, but still hope, and it was after this that they came out and said that he was officially dead.
Mr. BALL But, you didn't hear that when you were in the box office, did you?
Mrs. POSTAL Yes, I did. In fact, I was just about----it was just about the time all chaos broke loose. (1.35 pm)
WC-Testimony
The official news came at around 1.35 pm. So Mrs Postal must be talking about chaos as the time LHO is bundled out of there. According to the DPD he is not arrested until between 1.45 - 1.52 pm. Hardly ?about that time?
The chaos began as the police went by and a man ducked into the theater.
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Wrong - the police had been going by
for over 15 minutes by 1.35pm
TRY AGAIN
aim higher
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Wrong - the police had been going by
for over 15 minutes by 1.35pm
TRY AGAIN
aim higher
I already nailed it dead on. Here's more of her affidavit:
"I called the Police Department, and some woman answered,and I told her that I wanted to talk to an officer about a suspect. She referred me to a man, and I told him that this is the Texas Theater at 231 West Jefferson. I told him that I knew that you men are very busy, but that I have a man in the theater that is running form you for some reason. The officer asked me what made me think he was running from us. I told him when the police drove by, that the man ducked in. The officer asked me if the man bought a ticket, and I told him no, he did not. Then he asked me what made me so sure that he was in the theater. I told him that I knew he was in there, because he couldn't have gone by me. I told him to call it woman's intuition, or whatever he liked, but that man is in the theater, and he's running from you people, for something. I told the officer that I had just heard officially that the President had been assassinated. I told him that I didn't know if this man had anything to do with it or not, but that he was running from something."-- From the signed affidavit of Julia Postal, Dec 4, 1963
Can't get much clearer than that.
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wow
there it is
I could deny that and say it was 2 weeks later or
what about the evidence of davis and burroughs
but It is clear - she says he arrived about 1.30-1.35pm
It matches JB'ers affidavit (1.30pm)
If you cannot concede in an intelligent debate
its not an intelligent debate
you got me
touche
???
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wow
there it is
I could deny that and say it was 2 weeks later or
what about the evidence of davis and burroughs
but It is clear - she says he arrived about 1.30-1.35pm
It matches JB'ers affidavit (1.30pm)
If you cannot concede in an intelligent debate
its not an intelligent debate
you got me
touche
???
Took you long enough. But good on you just the same.
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wow
there it is
I could deny that and say it was 2 weeks later or
what about the evidence of davis and burroughs
but It is clear - she says he arrived about 1.30-1.35pm
It matches JB'ers affidavit (1.30pm)
If you cannot concede in an intelligent debate
its not an intelligent debate
you got me
touche
???
If you wish to carry on here with intelligent debate, you're going to be doing an awful lot of conceding. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. You have the evidence to deal with.
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gloating 2 posts in a row?
Its unbecoming
try and be gracious
there's a good gentleman
Oswald did not fire the final bullet
The WR was a cover up
everything else is open ended IMO
I try and keep an open mind
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gloating 2 posts in a row?
Its unbecoming
try and be gracious
there's a good gentleman
I never gloat. You are reading something into my posts that is not there.
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hell,he might have even shot JD
It is possible IMO
but he sure as heck didn't kill JFK
there were others involved
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Oswald did not fire the final bullet
The WR was a cover up
everything else is open ended IMO
I try and keep an open mind
See, that's the problem that you are confronted with. The evidence. That evidence points towards Oswald having fired all three shots.
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yeah - NO
the headshot to the temple is undeniable
the WR is a farce
the HSCA agree's with me (probable conspiracy)
not you
most (over half) of Americans believe there was more than 1 shooter
So you are in the minority pal
so by definition aren't you guys the kooks now?
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the headshot from the front is undeniable
The headshot from the front is absolutely deniable. The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.
the WR is a farce
You mean the report itself? Whatever. I don't care. I rarely reference the 888 page Report. It's the 26 supporting volumes where it's at.
the HSCA agree's with me (probable conspiracy)
not you
They agree with you do they? You're 95% sure that there was a conspiracy? OK, here's a few other of their findings:
Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
- President Kennedy was struck by two rifle shots fired from behind him.
- The shots that struck President Kennedy from behind him were fired from the sixth floor window of the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald owned the rifle that was used to fire the shots from the sixth floor window of the southeast comer of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald, shortly before the assassination, had access to and was present on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald's other actions tend to support the conclusion that he assassinated President Kennedy
most (over half) of Americans believe there was more than 1 shooter
So you are in the minority pal
So what? How many of those Americans have read the volumes of the Warren Report or even examined any of the evidence themselves?
so by definition aren't you guys the kooks now?
LOL! What? Is that how it works?
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The headshot from the front is absolutely deniable. The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.
You mean the report itself? Whatever. I don't care. I rarely reference the 888 page Report. It's the 26 supporting volumes where it's at.
They agree with you do they? You're 95% sure that there was a conspiracy? OK, here's a few other of their findings:
Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
- President Kennedy was struck by two rifle shots fired from behind him.
- The shots that struck President Kennedy from behind him were fired from the sixth floor window of the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald owned the rifle that was used to fire the shots from the sixth floor window of the southeast comer of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald, shortly before the assassination, had access to and was present on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building.
- Lee Harvey Oswald's other actions tend to support the conclusion that he assassinated President Kennedy
So what? How many of those Americans have read the volumes of the Warren Report or even examined any of the evidence themselves?
LOL! What? Is that how it works?
The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.
Is this comment based on your own expertise?
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Not by name.
But the DPD-honoured shoe store manager did hear about a patrolman being shot in Oak Cliff somewhat before the funny-looking guy (who couldn't stand cop car sirens apparently) turned up.
Read all about it in the DPD-honoured shoe store manager's WC testimony.
If he did then you could show how, but you can't, therefore, we can say he didn't hear about JDT's murder before he allegedly saw LHO.
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Was the Dallas Police Department involved in the assassination and/or the cover up?
Was the Warren Commission involved in the cover up?
Was LHO involved in the assassination? The evidence says no.
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The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.
Is this comment based on your own expertise?
Do I detect some snarkiness from you?
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Do I detect some snarkiness from you?
No... You are reading something into my post that is not there.
I'm just asking for clarification. Why not simply answer my question?
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You Said"Brewer states that just before Oswald showed up, at 1:34, an
announcement came on the radio saying a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff. "
Which is a lie - A documentary is NOT evidence :D
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How many times do I have to tell you guys the same goddamn thing?
The news of an officer shot did not come out until around 1.50pm
Roughly 30 minutes after the event on KLIF (again I have timed it)
There are no reporters at Methodist hospital
So JFK is pronounced dead at @1pm
It takes about 38 minutes for that news to be broadcast live on TV.
AND THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT - (roughly 30 minutes)
He also say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
which is also false
If you have proof to prove me wrong please show me
LISTEN FOR YOURSELF on the KLIF broadcast
search youtube KLIF-RADIO (11/22/63) (LONGER VERSION, WITH UNEDITED MUSIC)
22.22 - Leaving Love Field 11.50pm
1.16.16 - JFK shot reported at around 12.45pm
1.53.48 - last rites given death not official 1.24 pm
1.57.57 - Strong indication he is dead 1.28 pm
2.05.29 - Official JFK dead 1.35 pm
2.14.45 - Shot through the right temple.this was a surprise. They also mention the grassy knoll. 1.43 pm.
2.25.52 - First Reports Police Officer shot 1.55 pm.
Brewer wouldn't even have to know that JFK or Tippit were even shot?let alone dead. He perceived a man to be ducking out of sight in response to rushing, sirens-wailing squad cars.
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Bump, before this drops of page 1;
The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.
Is this comment based on your own expertise?
Tim, do you have an answer to my question?
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Did anyone see a shooter falling backwards on his arse on the grassy knoll or behind the picket fence or the pergola or the trees or bushes at 12:30-ish on 11.22.63?
Pretty sure some guy named Newton said something about having equal or opposite reactions to figs or something
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Bump, before this drops of page 1;
Tim, do you have an answer to my question?
Yes I do.
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Yes I do.
Why the mystery?
It almost looks as if you don't want to answer....
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Come on Tim... just answer the question.
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Come on Tim... just answer the question.
Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise. Though, I'm familiar enough with them and with basic physics to be able to say what I said. However, you don't have to take my word for it. Here are a few experts on the matter:
From a Joel Grant interview of Duncan MacPherson:
G: It is common knowledge that, as captured by Abraham Zapruder, President Kennedy's head and upper torso lurch energetically immediately following the explosion of his head. Could this movement have been caused by the directly transferred momentum of a bullet? That is, can a bullet "push" somebody like that?
MacP: No, and no. The movement of a body due to bullet momentum cannot be greater than the movement of the same body if it was holding the gun that fired the bullet. This is a result of elementary physics and is not disputed by anyone who understands physics. The major frustrating feature of the Kennedy assassination phenomenon is the willingness of people to pretend to talk authoritatively on subjects they know absolutely nothing about, especially things related to firearms. This body recoil is one favorite. Another is the "puff of smoke from the grassy knoll"; the theory here seems to be that someone shot Kennedy with a flintlock (modern firearms don't make a puff of smoke on firing as black powder rounds do).
G: If the effects observed on the Zapruder film are not the result of a direct "push" by a bullet, what could account for JFK's movements?
MacP: In general, body movement in response to nervous system trauma is a result of contractions in body muscles. This is related to movements of your leg when a doctor raps you on the knee with his little mallet; your leg moves because a nerve induces a muscle contraction, not because it was driven into motion by the force of the tiny rap with the mallet. The slightly peculiar location of Kennedy's arms after the 399 bullet impact is known as Thorburn's position, after a description by Dr. William Thorburn in an 1889 paper on injuries to the area of the spinal chord damaged by bullet 399. In addition to this effect, simulations have shown that bullet strikes to the skull that result in blowing out a significant hole upon exit result in skull recoil towards the bullet entry direction. The dynamics of this are a little complicated, but are more related to the pressure inside the skull cavity created by the bullet passage than to effects directly related to the bullet movement. The dynamics of this kind of impact were demonstrated independently in testing by Dr. Luis Alvarez and by Dr. John K. Lattimer et al.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/macpher.htm
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From the HSCA testimony of Larry Sturdivan:
Mr. Devine: Again, as an expert in he field of ballistics, you are not troubled having seen the Zapruder picture that the head moved in an anterior direction or posterior direction, I guess, the same direction from which the bullet was allegedly fired, that does not trouble you as an expert in the field having conducted tests in ballistics?
Mr. Sturdivan: No, sir, the momentum of the bullet could not have thrown him in any direction violently. The neuromuscular reaction in which the heavy back muscles predominate over the lighter abdominal muscles would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from, whether it entered the front, the side or the back of the head.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscastur.htm
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From the Rockefeller testimony of Alfred G. Olivier, former Chief of the Wound Ballistics Branch of Biophysics Division, Biomedical Laboratory:
Robert B. Olsen: Do you have an opinion, then, based upon your work in this field over the years, as to whether President Kennedy's body would have moved in the fashion that it did after the fatal shot in the head, that movement being a consequence of the impact of the bullet?
Alfred G. Olivier: As a result of the momentum imparted to the body by the bullet?
Olsen: Yes.
Olivier: No, it wouldn't.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=31992#relPageId=32&tab=page
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Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise
That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.
I don't really follow how any of this makes a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable" if the violent back and to the left movement was indeed a neuromuscular reaction which, according to Sturdivan, "would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from".
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Brewer wouldn't even have to know that JFK or Tippit were even shot?let alone dead. He perceived a man to be ducking out of sight in response to rushing, sirens-wailing squad cars.
yeah I geddit chappie,you're right
I'm just saying his testimony is inconsistent
He say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
(which did not happen at all)
Then he comes out with Mr Bugliosi and 1.15pm in the 80's?
Thats a thread starter
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Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise
That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.
I don't really follow how any of this makes a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable" if the violent back and to the left movement was indeed a neuromuscular reaction which, according to Sturdivan, "would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from".
It doesn't make a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable". It just deflates the claim that the back and to the left movement of the head proves that a shot came from the front. What makes a headshot from the front absolutely deniable are the findings made by the forensic examination of Kennedy's body at Bethesda. Of course, the direction of the headshot spray seen in the Zapruder film adds to it but the autopsy report itself is what speaks the loudest.
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yeah I geddit chappie,you're right
I'm just saying his testimony is inconsistent
He say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
(which did not happen at all)
Then he comes out with Mr Bugliosi and 1.15pm in the 80's?
Thats a thread starter
Where in his testimony did he say he heard on the radio a description of a suspect in the Tippit shooting?
As far as I can tell, here is his only mention in his WC testimony about hearing about the shooting of an officer:
Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
Mr. BELIN - Is Oak Cliff the area in which your shoe store was located?
Mr. BREWER - Yes, sir.
Here is his complete testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm
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Where in his testimony did he say he heard on the radio a description of a suspect in the Tippit shooting?
As far as I can tell, here is his only mention in his WC testimony about hearing about the shooting of an officer:
Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
Mr. BELIN - Is Oak Cliff the area in which your shoe store was located?
Mr. BREWER - Yes, sir.
Here is his complete testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm
1-There was no description put over public radio at all for LHO
2-news did not come out about the JD crime until 1.50 pm
(at least 20min after)
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He had the radio turned on, likely tuned to KBOX station, and at about 1:31 pm heard that a police officer had been shot in Oak Cliff. A few minutes after hearing that, Oswald appeared in the lobby of the store.
Why "likely tuned to KBOX"?
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Was the Dallas Police Department involved in the assassination and/or the cover up?
Absolutely.
Was the Warren Commission involved in the cover up?
Most certainly. No one wanted to open Pandora's Box ...the can of worms that suggested a conspiracy. That was unacceptable. The cops 'had their man'.. This was the easiest solution and he was conveniently dead...let the matter rest there.
Who dare question the all powerful?
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sorry for the 6 month delay on a reply
It is his testimony here also
So If he is at Brewers store at 1.15pm
and he left his flat at (WC) 1.03
are you guys saying he left at 1.03pm
gets to the JD crime scene by 1.10pm shoots JD
then gets to brewers store by 1.15pm?
this is laughable
in 12 minutes he has travelled 1.3 miles and committed a murder
he would have to be a full sprint to achieve that
was this guy an Olympian?
am I correct this is the WC timeline?