JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on December 20, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
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Quote from: Oscar Navarro on Today at 12:05:00 AM
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
What makes it 'solid evidence'? When you actually register, you sign a book that asks your name. And you register your name along with the list of other renters. Some registers might want more information [business..what city you are from..etc] I mean we're not talking about the Statler Hilton here..this was just an $8 a week flophouse right? Gladys Johnson was the owner.
Mr. BALL. Then you rented out rooms?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I rent out bedrooms, don't give board, just bedroom and living room privileges.
Mr. BALL. How many tenants did you have in October last year?
Mrs. JOHNSON. You know, I'm sorry I didn't bring my register. I couldn't tell you exactly; I imagine I had about 10 or 12.
Mr. BALL. Was it full?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; I don't--I most always have vacancies.
Mr. BALL. You do?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I have had more even since this happened.
Mr. BALL. Oh, you have?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have; people are funny about things like that, you know----
Mr. BALL. Well, now, you knew Lee Oswald, didn't you?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, I just knew him when I seen him. I knew him as a renter, that's all.
Mr. BALL. Where was he when you first met him, at what place?
Mrs. JOHNSON. At my home.......
Mrs Johnson mentioned nothing about an O H Lee.****
Mrs Johnson 'didn't bring the register'? If that was evidence and I think it should have been...to verify Oscars claim at least -so how does Oscar know for sure that Oswald registered as O H Lee?
Mrs Johnson did bring this receipt paper. Joe Ball was happy with that and entered it in the record as JohnsonGladys Exibit A......and just called it the "Rooming House Register" H-XX
Apparently, what Mrs Johnson forgot to bring along [what she called the register] just wasn't important after all.
Well I've looked around for that register as an exhibit ...it looks like I need some help. Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ where are you guys? I want to see the name of OH Lee written in a real register along with the names of the other renters or else it is not official that Oswald registered as OH Lee and is therefore not evidence.
This is what Joe Ball entered in. It doesn't look much like a weekly tabulated receipt book at all. It looks fake. It looks like it was the weeks that Oswald stayed there all filled out at once and somebody just wrote OH Lee on it [5 letters that couldn't be all that hard to forge] And just what in hell made this scrap of paper all that top secret ???
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
Earlene Roberts the housekeeper did testify that Oswald registered as O H Lee. In fact she repeated it about 10 times ...
Mr. BALL. Why to your sorrows?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, he was registered as O. H. Lee and I come to find out he was Oswald and I wish I had never known it.--------------------------------------
Mr. BALL. Had you ever heard of the man before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No, and he didn't register as Oswald---he registered as O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. Did he sign his name?
Mrs. ROBERTS. O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. Did he sign his own name that way ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. O. H. Lee---that's what he was registered as.
Mr. BALL. And you didn't have that name you didn't ever know his name was Lee Oswald?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Then what happened after that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. they flashed him on television, is how come us to know. Yes, that's him-that's O. H. Lee
Mr. BALL. That was the first you knew who it was?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, because he was registered as O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. And you had, of course, thought his name was what?
Mrs. ROBERTS. O. H. Lee
Earlene Roberts was an elderly lady with admitted hearing difficulty. It is possible she became confused. She 'thought' his name was O H Lee.
If someone repeats something often enough it becomes truth [whether it is or not]
That solid evidence just might have vaporized right there.
Mrs Johnson said that renters started leaving soon after Oswald did. I wonder why? Who were they?
****CORRECTION--- I meant to express that Mrs Johnson did not mention the name O H Lee in that particular statement. However as usual..the WR defenders will find any wart, booger, or dingleberry to pick at. When they error...it is of course, entirely excusable.
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Quote from: Oscar Navarro on Today at 12:05:00 AM
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
What makes it 'solid evidence'? When you actually register, you sign a book that asks your name. And you register your name along with the list of other renters. Some registers might want more information [business..what city you are from..etc] I mean we're not talking about the Statler Hilton here..this was just an $8 a week flophouse right? Gladys Johnson was the owner.
Mrs Johnson mentioned nothing about an O H Lee.
Mrs Johnson 'didn't bring the register'? If that was evidence and I think it should have been...to verify Oscars claim at least -so how does Oscar know for sure that Oswald registered as O H Lee?
Mrs Johnson did bring this receipt paper. Joe Ball was happy with that and entered it in the record as JohnsonGladys Exibit A......and just called it the "Rooming House Register" H-XX
Apparently, what Mrs Johnson forgot to bring along [what she called the register] just wasn't important after all.
Well I've looked around for that register as an exhibit ...it looks like I need some help. Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ where are you guys? I want to see the name of OH Lee written in a real register along with the names of the other renters or else it is not official that Oswald registered as OH Lee and is therefore not evidence.
This is what Joe Ball entered in. It doesn't look much like a weekly tabulated receipt book at all. It looks fake. It looks like it was the weeks that Oswald stayed there all filled out at once and somebody just wrote OH Lee on it [5 letters that couldn't be all that hard to forge] And just what in hell made this scrap of paper all that top secret ???
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
Earlene Roberts the housekeeper did testify that Oswald registered as O H Lee. In fact she repeated it about 10 times ...
Earlene Roberts was an elderly lady with admitted hearing difficulty. It is possible she became confused. She 'thought' his name was O H Lee.
If someone repeats something often enough it becomes truth [whether it is or not]
That solid evidence just might have vaporized right there.
Mrs Johnson said that renters started leaving soon after Oswald did. I wonder why? Who were they?
"Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ"
>>> ME? LOL. Thanks, but I'm only the waterboy amongst those fine, learned gentlemen
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Quote from: Oscar Navarro on Today at 12:05:00 AM
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
What makes it 'solid evidence'? When you actually register, you sign a book that asks your name. And you register your name along with the list of other renters. Some registers might want more information [business..what city you are from..etc] I mean we're not talking about the Statler Hilton here..this was just an $8 a week flophouse right? Gladys Johnson was the owner.
Mrs Johnson mentioned nothing about an O H Lee.
Mrs Johnson 'didn't bring the register'? If that was evidence and I think it should have been...to verify Oscars claim at least -so how does Oscar know for sure that Oswald registered as O H Lee?
Mrs Johnson did bring this receipt paper. Joe Ball was happy with that and entered it in the record as JohnsonGladys Exibit A......and just called it the "Rooming House Register" H-XX
Apparently, what Mrs Johnson forgot to bring along [what she called the register] just wasn't important after all.
Well I've looked around for that register as an exhibit ...it looks like I need some help. Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ where are you guys? I want to see the name of OH Lee written in a real register along with the names of the other renters or else it is not official that Oswald registered as OH Lee and is therefore not evidence.
This is what Joe Ball entered in. It doesn't look much like a weekly tabulated receipt book at all. It looks fake. It looks like it was the weeks that Oswald stayed there all filled out at once and somebody just wrote OH Lee on it [5 letters that couldn't be all that hard to forge] And just what in hell made this scrap of paper all that top secret ???
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
Earlene Roberts the housekeeper did testify that Oswald registered as O H Lee. In fact she repeated it about 10 times ...
Earlene Roberts was an elderly lady with admitted hearing difficulty. It is possible she became confused. She 'thought' his name was O H Lee.
If someone repeats something often enough it becomes truth [whether it is or not]
That solid evidence just might have vaporized right there.
Mrs Johnson said that renters started leaving soon after Oswald did. I wonder why? Who were they?
And just what in hell made this scrap of paper all that top secret
Could it be that this "register" reveals that "OH Lee" was registered, and had paid for a room, at the rooming house at 1026, North Beckley during the same period that Lee Oswald was living in Mrs Bledsoe's rooming house ??
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Once when I was playing tourist I took the tour of the Beckley house. If you are ever in Dallas I highly suggest you do so. The tour guide who knew quite a bit about the assassination said there were 16 renters living there at that time. I was amazed.
Is there any testimony from any of the other 15 about Oswald?
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Once when I was playing tourist I took the tour of the Beckley house. If you are ever in Dallas I highly suggest you do so. The tour guide who knew quite a bit about the assassination said there were 16 renters living there at that time. I was amazed.
Is there any testimony from any of the other 15 about Oswald?
Mr Earl, Perhaps you can remember.... As I recall Lee Oswald was a resident at 1026 N. Beckley for about three weeks . I believe he was living at Mrs Bledsoe's rooming house for a couple of weeks in October......
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Is there any testimony from any of the other 15 about Oswald?
I haven't ever seen a word....or who they were. I do remember hearing about one individual but nothing in the Warren Report that I recall.
Walt mentions the Marsalis room and Mary Bledsoe. The Commission really found a doozy there.
[Mary] Bledsoe was divorced in 1925 and has lived for 24 years in a home
from Which she rents rooms, 621 N. Marsalis. She rented a room to Lee Oswald.
[Not particularly an alias]
who at the time showed her a picture of his wife and child.
She said she had just started renting rooms in September and kept
her records on a calendar, that Oswald rented a room on the 4th, and
then changed this to the 7th, but it turns out that "October of 1963
has been torn out." (p.401) to show the kind of interest the Commission had in
Mrs. Bledsoe and the kind of person and witness she was. This is more
space than was devoted to some of the witnesses for their entire testimony
Mrs. Bledsoe's testimony, if you'll excuse the expression, takes up 27 pages,
The above is an excerpt from Whitewash by Harold Weisberg continue reading here.....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/Witnesses/Item%2019.pdf
Mr. BALL - Now, you have a calendar here?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is my calendar.
Mr. BALL - That is the calendar for December 1963, and I notice it has dates and names and dates. Is that the way you keep books on your rooms?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; but I don't now. I did then, because I just had started. The first one I got was in September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - He put his name on the calendar?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, got it in September. He got it, my son sold it for $5, and I didn't even know that he tore that out.
Mr. BALL - Now, let me see here in this calendar. It runs from January 1963, to December of 1963, but October of 1963, has been torn out?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh. And he said his name was Lee Oswald was what his name was, and I said, "Well, I can't think of that name Oswald, I will call you Lee."
So, he put it down on the 4th. Just rented for a week, you see, the 7th.
Mr. BALL - You said the 4th?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - On the 7th.
Mr. BALL - On the 7th of October? That is the first day you ever saw him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Ever saw him.
Mr. BALL - On the 7th of October you rented the room to him, didn't you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
If one can make it through Mary Bledsoe's transcript they would conclude that it was Helen Markham in another body. They both spoke like they were in an opium trance. I pity the court reporter that had to go through all that.
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I haven't ever seen a word....or who they were. I do remember hearing about one individual but nothing in the Warren Report that I recall.
Walt mentions the Marsalis room and Mary Bledsoe. The Commission really found a doozy there.
The above is an excerpt from Whitewash by Harold Weisberg continue reading here.....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/Witnesses/Item%2019.pdfhttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
If one can make it through Mary Bledsoe's transcript they would conclude that it was Helen Markham in another body. They both spoke like they were in an opium trance. I pity the court reporter that had to go through all that.
Walt mentions the Marsalis room and Mary Bledsoe.
The point I was trying to make is that "someone" was registered at Mary Bledsoe's rooming house as Lee Oswald....at the same time that Mrs Roberts was renting a room to OH Lee.
Your point about Mrs Bledsoe saying that she would prefer to call Lee Oswald "Lee " is interesting....because Lee Oswald told Fritz that his goofy landlady was confused and got his name wrong. We've been led to believe that Lee was referring to Mrs Roberts who thought he was Mr Lee.... And perhaps she did...but isn't it strange that it was Mary Bledsoe who wanted to call him "Lee"... Or, Since O.H. Lee had rented a room and was registered at 1026 N Beckley at the same time that Lee was renting a room at Bledsoe's.... there's a distinct possibility that there were two men involved.....
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry..... ::)
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that.
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts.
Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A. ????.
Mr. BALL. We will make a copy of this and give the original back to you and we will mark this "A." Did he sign that "O. H. Lee" in your presence?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. On that day?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; the day he rented the room, they sign the register--they sign the register before I accept any money.
294
Mr. BALL. I'm talking about this "O. H. Lee" signature on this document; he signed that on that date?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he give you the money?
Mr. BALL. $8?
Mr. BALL. Did you ever know his true name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest. So I came from the restaurant, I guess 1 or 1:30, and these officers were there 1:30 or 2, something like that, anyway, it was after this assassination, and as I drove in, well, the officers were there and they told me that they was looking for this character and I told them I didn't think I had anyone by that name there but we went through the register carefully two or three times and there was no Oswald there and I had two new tenants, rather new tenants, so we had carried them around the house to show them and we was going to start in the new tenants' rooms and my husband was sitting in the living room and seen this picture flash on the television and he said, "Please go around that house and tell him it was this guy that lived in this room here"; and it was O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. That is the first time you learned his name was Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You knew him as O. H. Lee?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I knew him as O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. The first time you knew the man to be Lee Harvey Oswald that you had known as O. H. Lee?
Mrs. JOHNSON. That's right...??
Direct solid evidence that Oswald rented the room under an assumed name, an alias, O. H. Lee. Oswald signed the document, Mrs. Johnson was present when Oswald signed the document, Mr. and Mrs. Johnson both identified Oswald as O. H. Lee. On top of that Marina testified the Oswald used the alias and that's why she was so pissed off at him. That is why Oswald went to the Paine's house on Thursday evening after work. My impression is that Oswald tried to mend fences with his wife and if that didn't work then he would take drastic action, like killing the POTUS. It was a premeditated action by Oswald that hinged on Marina's reaction to his plea for reconciliation. The little scumbag went over the edge because he was a loser with visions of grandeur who found himself unable to control his wife.
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Oswald signed the document
Document? What document? The classified Top Secret scrap that was obviously produced post Action? Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information.
Why not?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; the day he rented the room, they sign the register--they sign the register before I accept any money.
Again- Whatever happened to that register?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest. ... the officers were there and they told me that they was looking for this character and I told them I didn't think I had anyone by that name there but we went through the register carefully two or three times and there was no Oswald there and I had two new tenants, rather new tenants
Where was that stinking register? Who were the 'new tenants'?
I really meant/should have mentioned that Johnson did not correct the counsel right from the opening testimony like Roberts did.
Mr. BALL. Well, now, you knew Lee Oswald, didn't you?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, I just knew him when I seen him. I knew him as a renter, that's all.
Let us bear in mind that this was all months after the action.
Even if Oswald did in fact introduce himself as O H Lee...no one ever mentioned that they called him Mr Lee. [Maybe they called him O H or O]? The conjecture regarding why Oswald would conceal his identity at that time is weak at best.
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Document? What document? The classified Top Secret scrap that was obviously produced post Action? Why not? Again- Whatever happened to that register? Where was that stinking register? Who were the 'new tenants'?
I really meant/should have mentioned that Johnson did not correct the counsel right from the opening testimony like Roberts did.Let us bear in mind that this was all months after the action.
Even if Oswald did in fact introduce himself as O H Lee...no one ever mentioned that they called him Mr Lee. [Maybe they called him O H or O]? The conjecture regarding why Oswald would conceal his identity at that time is weak at best.
Document? What document? The classified Top Secret scrap that was obviously produced post Action?
Johnson (Gladys J.) Exhibit A
Why not?
She wanted to sell it
Again- Whatever happened to that register?
I don't know. Maybe she sold it to a collector.
Where was that stinking register? Who were the 'new tenants'?
I really meant/should have mentioned that Johnson did not correct the counsel right from the opening testimony like Roberts did.
What do you mean by Johnson not correcting counsel?
Let us bear in mind that this was all months after the action.
Even if Oswald did in fact introduce himself as O H Lee...no one ever mentioned that they called him Mr Lee. [Maybe they called him O H or O]? The conjecture regarding why Oswald would conceal his identity at that time is weak at best.
The only conjecture I see is your response.
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Document? Johnson (Gladys J.) Exhibit A... Maybe she sold it [the register] to a collector.
Exhibit A was contrived..any idiot can see that. Concealing and disposing of evidence in a federal investigation is a crime even though there was no trial involved. I suspect the actual register was destroyed. I doubt most here had even known about Exhibit A until I posted it. The Oz did it alone people merely bought the still unproven axiom.
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I think LHO was at Beckley for 5 weeks prior to the assassination. Seems like enough time for at least one person out of over a dozen to have something to say about him.
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I think LHO was at Beckley for 5 weeks prior to the assassination. Seems like enough time for at least one person out of over a dozen to have something to say about him.
Yet, according to Mrs Paine's testimony, she called the Beckley rooming house and had asked for Lee Oswald. She said the man that answered told her that there was no Lee Oswald living there.
Mr. JENNER - Did you hear from him then either on the 14th or 15th in respect to his effort to obtaining employment at the Texas School Depository?
Mrs. PAINE - He called immediately on Tuesday, the 15th, after he had been accepted and said he would start work the next day.
Mr. JENNER - When you say immediately, what time of day was that?
Mrs. PAINE - Midmorning I would say...
.....Mr. JENNER - Had you had any information that he was not residing at the YMCA?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - How did you come by that information?
Mrs. PAINE - He gave me a telephone number, possibly this same weekend.
...Mr. JENNER - This would be the weekend of what?
Mrs. PAINE - So this must have been the weekend of the 12th of October, the same weekend.
As Walt mentioned previously...something doesn't add up.
Reviewing the WC timeline...
October 7, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to the bus station, and he returns to Dallas to look for
work. Later, LHO obtains a room at 621 Marsalis St.
October 12, 1963: LHO advised his landlady that he was leaving for the weekend, and
she stated that she didn't want him to return. LHO went to Ruth's for the weekend.
October 14, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to Dallas, where he later registers as O.H. Lee at a
new rooming house on North Beckley....[She drove him to Dallas and then what? Drops him off in the middle of town? She must have known where he stayed and lied about it]
October 15, 1963: LHO applies at the TSBD and is hired.
October 16, 1963: LHO begins work at the TSBD.
At this point I wondered ...What actually occurred? What Ruth said or what the final Report says she said? Mr. JENNER - That is of importance, Mrs. Paine. Would you give us the circumstances, please?
Mrs. PAINE - He said that he was at a--
Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, where was he when he said this?
Mrs. PAINE - He was at the home so far as I remember. It might have been during one of his telephone calls to the house, but I don't think so. He rarely talked with me when he was out.
But the timeline says that he stayed in Irving that weekend, having finished his stay at the Marsalis place.
Mr. JENNER - This would be the weekend of what?
Mrs. PAINE - So this must have been the weekend of the 12th of October, the same weekend.
Mr. JENNER - That was the weekend following his return to Dallas on the 7th of October?
Mrs. PAINE - Fourth of October.
Mr. JENNER - He departed on the 7th.
Mrs. PAINE - His return to Dallas, I am sorry.
Mr. JENNER - Yes; now, give it as chronologically as you can; how you came by that telephone number, the circumstances under which it was given to you.
Mrs. PAINE - He said this is the telephone number.
Mr. JENNER - Was Marina present?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. He said of the room where he was staying, renting a room, and I could reach him here if she went into labor......
......Mr. JENNER - Did he give you more than one telephone number?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - At this occasion did he give you more than one telephone number?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Just stick to this particular occasion. What telephone number--did you record it? ... He did not give you an address?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
........Mr. JENNER - Now, relate for the Commission the circumstances under which you received a second number?
Mrs. PAINE - He gave me a second number, I suppose by phone, but I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER - When?
Mrs. PAINE - It was certainly before the birth of the baby.....
....Mr. JENNER - Which recollection serves you best, that he called or that he gave it to you in your home?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall. [an excremental memory had Mrs Paine]
Mr. JENNER - What did he say?
Mrs. PAINE - He said he moved to different rooms....
From the Shaw trial....Q: And do you know whether or not she was successful in locating him at that number?
A: She asked me to dial the number, and I did and asked for Lee Oswald, and someone answered saying he didn't know anyone of that name, and I asked was this number such and such, he said yes, it was, and was it a rooming house, he said yes, it was, so at that point I didn't know what to do and just thanked him and hung up.
Why would Oswald give out a phone number for a room where he would no longer be staying?
Why would he give out a phone number as if he may want to be called and then anyone answering the phone would not know who he really was and he wouldn't get the call? It didn't make any sense and it still doesn't. If Paine called as she said she did...who was the guy that answered?
Why were none of the other Berkley Ave boarders ever questioned?
Reference links.... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paineshaw.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r3.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r2.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r1.htm
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Exhibit A was contrived..any idiot can see that. Concealing and disposing of evidence in a federal investigation is a crime even though there was no trial involved. I suspect the actual register was destroyed. I doubt most here had even known about Exhibit A until I posted it. The Oz did it alone people merely bought the still unproven axiom.
Exhibit A was contrived..any idiot can see that
LOL
You've just admitted to being an idiot
:D
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Exhibit A was contrived..any idiot can see that
You've just admitted to being an idiot
& so did you.
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Yet, according to Mrs Paine's testimony, she called the Beckley rooming house and had asked for Lee Oswald. She said the man that answered told her that there was no Lee Oswald living there. As Walt mentioned previously...something doesn't add up.
Reviewing the WC timeline...At this point I wondered ...What actually occurred? What Ruth said or what the final Report says she said?From the Shaw trial....Why would Oswald give out a phone number for a room where he would no longer be staying?
Why would he give out a phone number as if he may want to be called and then anyone answering the phone would not know who he really was and he wouldn't get the call? It didn't make any sense and it still doesn't. If Paine called as she said she did...who was the guy that answered?
Why were none of the other Berkley Ave boarders ever questioned?
Reference links.... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paineshaw.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r3.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r2.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r1.htm
October 14, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to Dallas, where he later registers as O.H. Lee at a
new rooming house on North Beckley....[She drove him to Dallas and then what? Drops him off in the middle of town? She must have known where he stayed and lied about it]
If the truth were known....Ruthie probably volunteered to drive him to Dallas hoping that she could learn where he was staying, so she could relay that information to her FBI agent....
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The recollection of A C Johnson
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
The whole idea was to present Oswald in the most seeming and nefarious way possible.
No one did it better than counsel for the prosecution... David Belin. Here are some excerpts from that hearing....
Mr. BELIN. Now, sometime last fall, a person came to your house to rent a room who you knew by the name of O. H. Lee. Is that correct?.... Mr. BELIN. There were already curtain rods in the room, then, when this O.H. Lee came there is that correct? ....Mr. BELIN. All right. In any case, this man, O. H. Lee, came to rent a room from you or from your wife?...Mr. BELIN. Could you describe how you came to find out that this man had another name other than O. H. Lee?
I think David Belin and Vincent Bugliosi must have been separated at birth. Seems like they had the same arrogant manner.
During his testimony, A C Johnson provided some interesting information.
Who all knew that his housekeeper --Mrs Roberts had ducked out on them without notice one night? Johnson couldn't remember what particular night though. He said she left 3 or 4 weeks before this testimony.
A C stated that he had heard that JFK had died before he got home that day. The announcement came right at 1:00 PM Dallas time. A C testified that he had come home to the 1026 Beckley house just afterwards. The police had arrived between 1:30 and 2:00 looking for Oswald...Lee Harvey Oswald.
I believe it is singular that the police are looking for LHO when they couldn't have possibly known that he had done anything criminal. Mr. BELIN. And did you hear this on the radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. No. Uh--we have a friend that is a policeman, works for Cotton Belt Railroad. And he called us--called up here and told us. Of course, we had heard all the sirens and everything, you know, going, and we couldn't imagine what it was. And Nicholson called us and told us that he had heard it over the radio.
Mr. BELIN. He had heard over the radio that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And then, did you turn on your radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. We don't have one there in the place, so we went out in the car and sat there in the car and listened.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And was it while you were sitting in the car that you heard that the President had died?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; we didn't leave until we--it was announced that he was dead.
Mr. BELIN. How soon after that announcement did you leave?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'd say 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Then, how long did it take you to get to 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. It takes us about 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. So that about 10 minutes after you heard on the radio that the President had been shot, you arrived with your wife at 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone? Was Mrs. Roberts there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; she was there at the television.
Mr. BELIN. She was watching television?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Had this man, O. H. Lee, was he there when you got there?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; he had been there--just--uh--before we got home.
Mr. BELIN. Did Mrs. Roberts tell you that he had?
Mr. JOHNSON. She told us that he come in and got a--uh--little coat or something and just walked in his room and right back out the door.
That statement was glossed over and smoothed away saying that this conversation occurred AFTER the cops came. BTW how considerate of this policeman/railroad worker friend to take time out from the all the chaos that was ensuing to call the Johnsons and re-report the news that he heard on the radio. Belin failed to specify the difference there between shot- and dead. The president was SHOT at 12:30 and he was pronounced DEAD at 1:00.
Why did the cops come to 1026 Beckley? Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket [that just couldn't be]
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right. What happened when the officers got there? They asked if Lee Harvey Oswald lived there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
The timeline as testified by A C Johnson seems totally out of kilter.
So for some reason, Oswald had the Beckley address on him...Why? And it was found when he was somehow searched by the police before [according to the clock] he was even arrested.
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The recollection of A C Johnson
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
The whole idea was to present Oswald in the most seeming and nefarious way possible.
No one did it better than counsel for the prosecution... David Belin. Here are some excerpts from that hearing.... I think David Belin and Vincent Bugliosi must have been separated at birth. Seems like they had the same arrogant manner.
During his testimony, A C Johnson provided some interesting information.
Who all knew that his housekeeper --Mrs Roberts had ducked out on them without notice one night? Johnson couldn't remember what particular night though. He said she left 3 or 4 weeks before this testimony.
A C stated that he had heard that JFK had died before he got home that day. The announcement came right at 1:00 PM Dallas time. A C testified that he had come home to the 1026 Beckley house just afterwards. The police had arrived between 1:30 and 2:00 looking for Oswald...Lee Harvey Oswald.
I believe it is singular that the police are looking for LHO when they couldn't have possibly known that he had done anything criminal. That statement was glossed over and smoothed away saying that this conversation occurred AFTER the cops came. BTW how considerate of this policeman/railroad worker friend to take time out from the all the chaos that was ensuing to call the Johnsons and re-report the news that he heard on the radio. Belin failed to specify the difference there between shot- and dead. The president was SHOT at 12:30 and he was pronounced DEAD at 1:00.
Why did the cops come to 1026 Beckley? The timeline as testified by A C Johnson seems totally out of kilter.
So for some reason, Oswald had the Beckley address on him...Why? And it was found when he was somehow searched by the police before [according to the clock] he was even arrested.
Jerry You are confused by the fact that JFJ was pronounced dead at 1:00pm ( officially for the record) but his death wan't announced to the public until 1:30.
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Jerry You are confused by the fact that JFJ was pronounced dead at 1:00pm ( officially for the record) but his death wan't announced to the public until 1:30.
Actually, it was 1:38 CT that Cronkite issued the bulletin on TV. I can't say about radio. But read the statement where Johnson said it was a little after 1:00 that he returned home having heard about JFK was dead. Therein is the confusion.
He had 4 months to prepare his testimony.
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Were they all 'mistaken'?......Mr & Mrs Johnson as well as Earlene Roberts testified that the cops showed up at around 1:30 that day. Why? Apparently on a tip that Oswald would be their man and that is where he lived. In their zeal, the DPD sucked it all down---- hook, line and sinker.
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I think LHO was at Beckley for 5 weeks prior to the assassination. Seems like enough time for at least one person out of over a dozen to have something to say about him.
John Carter lived at the N. Beckley rooming house during the time Oswald stayed there. See CE-2883 FBI Report dated 12/23 of the interview taken 12/19
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=375&tab=page
(https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=375&tab=page)
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I haven't ever seen a word....or who they were. I do remember hearing about one individual but nothing in the Warren Report that I recall.
Walt mentions the Marsalis room and Mary Bledsoe. The Commission really found a doozy there.
The above is an excerpt from Whitewash by Harold Weisberg continue reading here.....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/Witnesses/Item%2019.pdfhttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
If one can make it through Mary Bledsoe's transcript they would conclude that it was Helen Markham in another body. They both spoke like they were in an opium trance. I pity the court reporter that had to go through all that.
I haven't ever seen a word....or who they were. I do remember hearing about one individual but nothing in the Warren Report that I recall.
See WR page 363
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Walt mentions the Marsalis room and Mary Bledsoe.
The point I was trying to make is that "someone" was registered at Mary Bledsoe's rooming house as Lee Oswald....at the same time that Mrs Roberts was renting a room to OH Lee.
Your point about Mrs Bledsoe saying that she would prefer to call Lee Oswald "Lee " is interesting....because Lee Oswald told Fritz that his goofy landlady was confused and got his name wrong. We've been led to believe that Lee was referring to Mrs Roberts who thought he was Mr Lee.... And perhaps she did...but isn't it strange that it was Mary Bledsoe who wanted to call him "Lee"... Or, Since O.H. Lee had rented a room and was registered at 1026 N Beckley at the same time that Lee was renting a room at Bledsoe's.... there's a distinct possibility that there were two men involved.....
The point I was trying to make is that "someone" was registered at Mary Bledsoe's rooming house as Lee Oswald....at the same time that Mrs Roberts was renting a room to OH Lee.
There's absolutely zero evidence that Oswald was renting at Mrs. Bledsoe's rooming house at the same time he was renting at the N. Beckley rooming house. The evidence has Oswald renting from Mrs. Bledsoe from Oct 7 through 11 when Oswald was kicked out of the rooming house for being the typical jerk that he was. Oswald stayed at Mrs. Paine's house that weekend and rented from Mrs. Roberts on Oct 11 under the alias of O. H. Lee. Oswald confided to Marina that he was using an alias because he didn't want the FBI to know where he lived and that is confirmed by the fact that in his application for the TSBD job he listed the Paine's address as his home address. It wasn't until Oswald was under interrogation that Fritz found out that he lived at the Beckley address and that was at 2:25 PM. Fritz then sends Lt. Cunningham and Detectives Senkel and Potts to the N. Beckley rooming house to search rhe place. it was not until 2:58PM that the search party arrives at the N. Beckley rooming house where they are met by Mrs. Roberts and Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. The trio are then asked by the search party if a Lee Harvey Oswald or an A. J. Hidell are registered there.
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The point I was trying to make is that "someone" was registered at Mary Bledsoe's rooming house as Lee Oswald....at the same time that Mrs Roberts was renting a room to OH Lee.
There's absolutely zero evidence that Oswald was renting at Mrs. Bledsoe's rooming house at the same time he was renting at the N. Beckley rooming house. The evidence has Oswald renting from Mrs. Bledsoe from Oct 7 through 11 when Oswald was kicked out of the rooming house for being the typical jerk that he was. Oswald stayed at Mrs. Paine's house that weekend and rented from Mrs. Roberts on Oct 11 under the alias of O. H. Lee. Oswald confided to Marina that he was using an alias because he didn't want the FBI to know where he lived and that is confirmed by the fact that in his application for the TSBD job he listed the Paine's address as his home address. It wasn't until Oswald was under interrogation that Fritz found out that he lived at the Beckley address and that was at 2:25 PM. Fritz then sends Lt. Cunningham and Detectives Senkel and Potts to the N. Beckley rooming house to search rhe place. it was not until 2:58PM that the search party arrives at the N. Beckley rooming house where they are met by Mrs. Roberts and Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. The trio are then asked by the search party if a Lee Harvey Oswald or an A. J. Hidell are registered there.
Oswald was kicked out of the rooming house for being the typical jerk that he was.
Mrs Bledsoe said that she asked the tenant to vacate after she heard him talking on the phone in a foreign language.
Could it be that Lee was talking to his wife Marina . who didn't speak English? Rather innocuous wouldn't you say? But Mrs Bledsoe couldn't eavesdrop and listen to the conversation and that made her angry....
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The trio are then asked by the search party if a Lee Harvey Oswald or an A. J. Hidell are registered there
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I'll have to amend that last part as there is no evidence that I can find the trio asked Mrs. Roberts and the Johnson's if a Hidell was registered there. The actual reference to Hidell comes from CE- 2003 page 245. This is the report of Detective B. L. Senkel who writes that he "checked registration book and did not find name of Lee Harvey Oswald, or name Hidell."
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Oswald was kicked out of the rooming house for being the typical jerk that he was.
Mrs Bledsoe said that she asked the tenant to vacate after she heard him talking on the phone in a foreign language.
Could it be that Lee was talking to his wife Marina . who didn't speak English? Rather innocuous wouldn't you say? But Mrs Bledsoe couldn't eavesdrop and listen to the conversation and that made her angry....
Yes, one of the reason's Mrs. Bledsoe didn't like Oswald was his peaking a foreign language on the phone but she mentioned other reasons too. She didn't like Oswald using the "icebox", interfering with her naps, and probably the last straw was that she thought Oswald was moving on Saturday morning because he was carrying his duffel bag. When She asked Oswald if he was moving Oswald said no and "probably" demanded his bedsheets be replaced and bed made. One can just picture that little weasel sneering at Mrs. Bledsoe as he makes this demand.
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Yes, one of the reason's Mrs. Bledsoe didn't like Oswald was his peaking a foreign language on the phone but she mentioned other reasons too. She didn't like Oswald using the "icebox", interfering with her naps, and probably the last straw was that she thought Oswald was moving on Saturday morning because he was carrying his duffel bag. When She asked Oswald if he was moving Oswald said no and "probably" demanded his bedsheets be replaced and bed made. One can just picture that little weasel sneering at Mrs. Bledsoe as he makes this demand.
One can just picture that little weasel sneering at Mrs. Bledsoe as he makes this demand.
Mr Narvarro, You're so blinded by your blind bias.....I'll bet if you had been at Christ's crucifixion you would have been one of the first to start throwing stones as he hung on the cross....
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One can just picture that little weasel sneering at Mrs. Bledsoe as he makes this demand.
Mr Narvarro, You're so blinded by your blind bias.....I'll bet if you had been at Christ's crucifixion you would have been one of the first to start throwing stones as he hung on the cross....
There's that attempt to beatify Kennedy's killer again. Oswald would have pissed his pants in laughter if he knew there were people out there rooting for him and declaring his innocence and JFK would have been crushed.
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I would like to have heard from any other of Mary Bledsoe's tenants...that is if she really had any.
Mr. BALL - Did you rent rooms before your son left your home?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, let's see, now, oh, yes; uh-huh, in September I----
Mr. BALL - Except his bedroom?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - When he left you rented another bedroom, did you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well yes; I am trying to. Haven't got it rented.
Mr. BALL - Now, you have a calendar here?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is my calendar.
Mr. BALL - That is the calendar for December 1963, and I notice it has dates and names and dates. Is that the way you keep books on your rooms?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; but I don't now. I did then, because I just had started. The first one I got was in September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
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Oswald was kicked out of the rooming house for being the typical jerk that he was.
Mrs Bledsoe said that she asked the tenant to vacate after she heard him talking on the phone in a foreign language.
Could it be that Lee was talking to his wife Marina . who didn't speak English? Rather innocuous wouldn't you say? But Mrs Bledsoe couldn't eavesdrop and listen to the conversation and that made her angry....
Bledsoe was a snoop -- she admitted as much in her testimony...
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't mention it. I never did mention about that man talking to him either, because it wasn't any of my business.
Mr. JENNER - Which man?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - This man who called and talked to him in the foreign language. I never did see him.
Mr. JENNER - How did you know it was a man?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I just judged that it was.
Mr. JENNER - You heard his end of the conversation? He was talking in a foreign language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - You assumed from that that whoever was on the other line was likewise talking in a foreign language, and you assumed a man, though you didn't know?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know, so, I didn't say that, because I don't know, but I never did say anything about it.
Mr. JENNER - I believe that's about all I have.
Mr. BALL - All right.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - What time is it? I'm tired.
Time for her nap :D
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There's that attempt to beatify Kennedy's killer again. Oswald would have xxxxxx his pants in laughter if he knew there were people out there rooting for him and declaring his innocence and JFK would have been crushed.
It's more than an attempt, Steve. Cakebread has actually placed the little sneering weasel on the cross. It's no longer St. Oswald the Patsy but Oswald Christ Son of Man. This adulation of St. Weasel has become synonymous with God sending this little bastard to die for our sins. :o The irony of all this is that Cakebread accuses me of bias! What Cakebread should be accusing me of is committing blasphemy!!!!
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I would like to have heard from any other of Mary Bledsoe's tenants...that is if she really had any.
What difference would it make how many tenants she had. Are you suggesting that Mrs. Bledsoe is part of the conspiracy?
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Bledsoe was a snoop -- she admitted as much in her testimony...Time for her nap :D
Mrs. Bledsoe was a 67 year old woman who was still sharp enough to notice the type of undesirable individual St. Oswald the Patsy was and sharp enough to notice his shirt had a hole on the sleeve when he boarded the Marsalis bus.
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Mrs. Bledsoe was a 67 year old woman who was still sharp enough to notice the type of undesirable individual St. Oswald the Patsy was and sharp enough to notice his shirt had a hole on the sleeve when he boarded the Marsalis bus.
I guess we can take your word [which doesn't mean all that much] for all that.
BTW... What all is this 'St Oswald the Patsy' crap? Are you trying to be a clown in trolling training?
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It's more than an attempt, Steve. Cakebread has actually placed the little sneering weasel on the cross. It's no longer St. Oswald the Patsy but Oswald Christ Son of Man. This adulation of St. Weasel has become synonymous with God sending this little xxxxxx to die for our sins. :o The irony of all this is that Cakebread accuses me of bias! What Cakebread should be accusing me of is committing blasphemy!!!!
I'll bet there were simple minded suckers like you at the Crucifixion ....They probably were referring to Christ as " the sneering little weasel"
I'm not putting Lee Oswald as a saint ... But I am placing YOU in the crowd that sneered at Christ....
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Mrs. Bledsoe was a 67 year old woman who was still sharp enough to notice the type of undesirable individual St. Oswald the Patsy was and sharp enough to notice his shirt had a hole on the sleeve when he boarded the Marsalis bus.
Yes indeed.... Mrs Bledsoe said that the bus that she was on ( she called it a "car" ...meaning street car) was the first one to be allowed through the area after the shooting....She said that she saw the yellow crime scene barrier tape was up and she noticed that the police were leading the assassin away in handcuffs. And she said that she looked up toward where assassin had fired from. ...and she was glad they caught him.
There's little doubt that she saw those events....However....The barrier tape did not go up until about 1:00 PM ....they had not established where the shots had come from until after 1:00 PM So It seems highly unlikely that mrs Bledsoe was on Cecil Mc Watters bus....
Mc Watters said that he was allowed through the area much earlier than 1:00PM and was in Oakcliff at 1:00 pm.....
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Mrs. Bledsoe... was and sharp enough to notice his shirt had a hole on the sleeve when he boarded the Marsalis bus.
Fancy that.... However she also described this shirt as having all the buttons torn off which didn't happen until Oswald was arrested....and he had changed his shirt [another topic]
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.
Mr. BALL - What did he have on underneath that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know.
Mr. BALL - Do you know the color of any undershirt he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
.....Mr. Ball. It was unraveled?
Mrs. Bledsoe. Was a hole in it, hole ...
There is a hole in it alright ::)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
What difference would it make how many tenants she had. Are you suggesting that Mrs. Bledsoe is part of the conspiracy?
Why refer to these strawman questions I didn't even ask? Interviewing another [tenant] might have given more insight that the woman was just batty as hell. How do we know she didn't kick them out too [for waking her up from her catnap] The FBI used her. It is obvious.
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I guess we can take your word [which doesn't mean all that much] for all that.
BTW... What all is this 'St Oswald the Patsy' crap? Are you trying to be a clown in trolling training?
Mrs. Bledsoe states on her DPD affidavit that she was in her 60's see https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/ (https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/) I thought she had said 67. You got me. Anyhow, she was an older woman who had suffered a stroke who probably took a few years off her age.
Yes, I do enjoy mocking all you ABO defenders. St. Oswald the Patsy, St. Oswald the Patsy, St. Oswald the Patsy.....with Cakebread it's Oswald Christ Son of Man.
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Fancy that.... However she also described this shirt as having all the buttons torn off which didn't happen until Oswald was arrested....and he had changed his shirt [another topic] There is a hole in it alright ::)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htmWhy refer to these strawman questions I didn't even ask? Interviewing another [tenant] might have given more insight that the woman was just batty as hell. How do we know she didn't kick them out too [for waking her up from her catnap] The FBI used her. It is obvious.
It certainly is ....But not only did Hoover's extra special agents use the senile Mrs Bledsoe...So did LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee
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Fancy that.... However she also described this shirt as having all the buttons torn off which didn't happen until Oswald was arrested....and he had changed his shirt [another topic] There is a hole in it alright ::)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htmWhy refer to these strawman questions I didn't even ask? Interviewing another [tenant] might have given more insight that the woman was just batty as hell. How do we know she didn't kick them out too [for waking her up from her catnap] The FBI used her. It is obvious.
Mary Bledsoe was sitting on the side seat at the front of the bus so she got a good look at him. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in. As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie. Fibers from that shirt were found on C399, the Marsalis bus transfer was found in the shirt pocket, the shirt had a hole on the right sleeve as described by mary Bledsoe.
You're statement about the tenants was left for interpretation. There was nothing definite or manly about it. "Oh, I wonder how many tenants Mrs. Bledsoe had.....wonder if she drank coffee or tea...Oh, my"
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Mary Bledsoe was sitting on the side seat at the front of the bus so she got a good look at him. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in. As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie. Fibers from that shirt were found on C399, the Marsalis bus transfer was found in the shirt pocket, the shirt had a hole on the right sleeve as described by mary Bledsoe.
You're statement about the tenants was left for interpretation. There was nothing definite or manly about it. "Oh, I wonder how many tenants Mrs. Bledsoe had.....wonder if she drank coffee or tea...Oh, my"
Mary Bledsoe was sitting on the side seat at the front of the bus so she got a good look at him. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in. As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie. Fibers from that shirt were found on C399,
Wow!! This is ground breaking information... Fibers from Lee's shirt were found on the magic bullet....
Where did you find that information, Oscar... Uranus?
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OK...Is it possible to graduate from junior high school here and dispense with the impiety?
If folks here are inclined to believe that Oswald was a jerk [like they really knew him and hung out with him] this would still be immaterial to the facts. Any motive involved with these facts is pure guess work.
A word about landladys.... I've had my experiences with them and they all went south for me. One was a snoop entering the place [for no other reason than to poke around] while I was gone to work. Another was completely batty and would knock on the door in the middle of the night to voice various complaints. Ultimately I discovered the joy of owning my own home ;D
Fibers from that shirt were found on C399
Nah.
Also...why would Oswald lie about changing his shirt?
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Mrs. Bledsoe states on her DPD affidavit that she was in her 60's see https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/ (https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/) I thought she had said 67. You got me. Anyhow, she was an older woman who had suffered a stroke who probably took a few years off her age.
Yes, I do enjoy mocking all you ABO defenders. St. Oswald the Patsy, St. Oswald the Patsy, St. Oswald the Patsy.....with Cakebread it's Oswald Christ Son of Man.
You are making one mistake after another?.
Mrs. Bledsoe states on her DPD affidavit that she was in her 60's see https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/ (https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/unboxing-lee-harvey-oswald-the-kennedy-assassination/)[/url]
The link doesn't show Bledsoe's DPD affidavit. It's shows an affidavit dated 2 November 1964
Mary Bledsoe was sitting on the side seat at the front of the bus so she got a good look at him. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in. As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie. Fibers from that shirt were found on C399, the Marsalis bus transfer was found in the shirt pocket, the shirt had a hole on the right sleeve as described by mary Bledsoe.
You're statement about the tenants was left for interpretation. There was nothing definite or manly about it. "Oh, I wonder how many tenants Mrs. Bledsoe had.....wonder if she drank coffee or tea...Oh, my"
It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in.
Possible? Probable? It's equally possible that Oswald wasn't wearing the shirt he was arrested in when he was on the bus.... See how easy it is to just claim something by saying it's possible or probable? Got any proof for your claim?
As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie.
And you know this for a fact, how? Or is it just another one of your self serving claims?
Fibers from that shirt were found on C399,
Now you make yourself look foolish, as there was nothing on bullet C399... no blood, nu human tissue and most certainly no fibers!
the Marsalis bus transfer was found in the shirt pocket,
That what the DPD claimed, but it took them at least two hours to find it.... Must have been very deep pockets :D
the shirt had a hole on the right sleeve as described by mary Bledsoe.
And Bledsoe was shown the actual shirt at her house a couple of days before her WC testimony? she could have seen the hole then!
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And Bledsoe was shown the actual shirt at her house a couple of days before her WC testimony? she could have seen the hole then!
Mary Bledsoe positively identified the shirt well before her deposition. Well before she was ever asked to give a deposition actually. She was shown the shirt on Dec 4, 1963 by two FBI agents and, because of the hole in the right elbow, was able to positively identify it for them. She did not receive notification that she was required to appear before the Commission until March 1964.
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Mary Bledsoe positively identified the shirt well before her deposition.
Explain.
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Mr. BALL - But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I forget what I have to say.
Mr. BALL - When did you make those notes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - What day did I make them? ......... :-\
Mr. BALL - [He] Stayed in his room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - All the time, and stayed there that night, too.
Mr. BALL - All the time? What about Wednesday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He left about 9 o'clock, and went off dressed. Had a white shirt and white tie and white---white trousers, and looked very nice. Went off Monday about 2 o'clock.
Mr. BALL - This is Wednesday.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Wednesday. Then he got back at 1:30.
Mr. BALL - Let me see, he left at 9?
She couldn't seem to read her own notes ::)
Mr. BALL - Tell me what you see there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I saw the---no; not so much that. It was done after---that is part I recognize more than anything.
Mr. BALL - You are pointing to a hole in the right elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What about the color?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I---What do you mean?
Mr. BALL - Well----
Mrs. BLEDSOE - When he had it on?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Before he was shot? Yes; I remember it being brown.
I highlighted the seemingly senseless rambling...but was it?
"It was done after..." Done after what?
"Before he was shot..." Before who was shot? Bledsoe had clearly been coached somewhere along the line there and she evidently blew her assignment big time.
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Explain.
What needs explaining?
Mary Bledsoe positively identified the shirt well before her deposition. Well before she was ever asked to give a deposition actually. She was shown the shirt on Dec 4, 1963 by two FBI agents and, because of the hole in the right elbow, was able to positively identify it for them. She did not receive notification that she was required to appear before the Commission until March 1964.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=309&tab=page
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What difference would it make how many tenants she had. Are you suggesting that Mrs. Bledsoe is part of the conspiracy?
One can never have enough conspirators on the far shores of the lunatic fringe.
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One can just picture that little weasel sneering at Mrs. Bledsoe as he makes this demand.
Mr Narvarro, You're so blinded by your blind bias.....I'll bet if you had been at Christ's crucifixion you would have been one of the first to start throwing stones as he hung on the cross....
You would have snitched on JC in the garden
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Mary Bledsoe was sitting on the side seat at the front of the bus so she got a good look at him. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that St Oswald the Patsy had his shirt unbuttoned even though it was tucked in. As to St Oswald the Patsy having changed his shirt that's a St. Oswald the Patsy lie. Fibers from that shirt were found on C399,
Wow!! This is ground breaking information... Fibers from Lee's shirt were found on the magic bullet....
Where did you find that information, Oscar... Uranus?
Well, since you're so anxious to find mistakes you have made one yourself in pointing out mine. C399 is not the magic bullet it's CE-399. :P
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Well, since you're so anxious to find mistakes you have made one yourself in pointing out mine. C399 is not the magic bullet it's CE-399. :P
The mistake was yours. You called it C399 first. Thumb1:
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OK...Is it possible to graduate from junior high school here and dispense with the impiety?
If folks here are inclined to believe that Oswald was a jerk [like they really knew him and hung out with him] this would still be immaterial to the facts. Any motive involved with these facts is pure guess work.
A word about landladys.... I've had my experiences with them and they all went south for me. One was a snoop entering the place [for no other reason than to poke around] while I was gone to work. Another was completely batty and would knock on the door in the middle of the night to voice various complaints. Ultimately I discovered the joy of owning my own home ;DNah.
Also...why would Oswald lie about changing his shirt?
It's not that I believe that St. Oswald the Patsy was a jerk it's the view of many of those who knew him that he was a jerk. Most of the Russian expatriates who got to know St. Oswald the Patsy thought so. His wife Marina thought so on many occasions. Ruth and Michael Paine didn't think very highly of him. His fellow workers at Jaggars, Chiles and Stovall didn't think very highly of him. He was thrown out of the Cuban Embassy in MC by Azcue for being a jerk. He was both physically and mentally abusive with Marina. The letter he sent from Russia to his brother Robert declaring that he thought of both he and his mother as just workers and had no personal attachments to them and that he was willing to even kill his own brother if Robert put on a uniform and fought against the Soviet state (or something to that effect), that's a profound testament to jerkiness (and I'm putting it mildly).
Now, to Mrs. Bledsoe. It does appear to me that attacking the messenger is the only option you have in order to discredit her testimony. But you fail miserably on that account because her testimony is unassailable. It's also pathetic and inconsiderate to assail the woman's character in order to cover for a miserable individual such as St. Oswald the Patsy.
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The mistake was yours. You called it C399 first. Thumb1:
Yes, I own the mistake. But you also followed along gleefully and failed to notice that C399 is not the magic bullet. Since you guys are so fond of splitting hairs I'll join the club too. C2766 is the rifle. Mistake corrected.
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Yes, I own the mistake. But you also followed along gleefully and failed to notice that C399 is not the magic bullet. Since you guys are so fond of splitting hairs I'll join the club too. C2766 is the rifle. Mistake corrected.
But you also followed along gleefully and failed to notice
Or I just didn't feel the need to point out yet another one of your mistakes.
C399 is not the magic bullet
So you were not talking about the magic bullet?
C2766 is the rifle. Mistake corrected.
Fibers from that shirt were found on C399,
you really meant C2766... Ok... so you correct a mistake by making another one!
There is no conclusive proof whatsoever that the fibers found on C2766 were "from that shirt". This has already been pointed out to you in the past.
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But you also followed along gleefully and failed to notice
Or I just didn't feel the need to point out yet another one of your mistakes.
C399 is not the magic bullet
So you were not talking about the magic bullet?
C2766 is the rifle. Mistake corrected.
you really meant C2766... Ok... so you correct a mistake by making another one!
There is no conclusive proof whatsoever that the fibers found on C2766 were "from that shirt". This has already been pointed out to you in the past.
You mean that you don't believe the fibers came from Oswald's shirt. You cannot offer any conclusive proof those fibers did not come from that shirt. I believe the circumstances and the fiber analysis has immense probative value because it would be quite a coincidence there was another shirt not owned by Oswald that left clean fibers on C2766 that matched those of the shirt worn by Oswald when captured at the TT.
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One can never have enough conspirators on the far shores of the lunatic fringe.
So true.
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You mean that you don't believe the fibers came from Oswald's shirt. You cannot offer any conclusive proof those fibers did not come from that shirt. I believe the circumstances and the fiber analysis has immense probative value because it would be quite a coincidence there was another shirt not owned by Oswald that left clean fibers on C2766 that matched those of the shirt worn by Oswald when captured at the TT.
You mean that you don't believe the fibers came from Oswald's shirt.
It doesn't matter what I believe or not. You made the claim that the fibers came "from that shirt" when there is no supporting evidence for that conclusion.
You cannot offer any conclusive proof those fibers did not come from that shirt.
I also can not prove in any way shape or form that those fibers did not come from one of your grandparent's shirts. Fortunately, I don't have to prove anything as I do not make any claim. I know this a difficult concept for you to understand but it's the person who makes the claim that needs to provide proof for that claim.
I believe the circumstances and the fiber analysis has immense probative value because it would be quite a coincidence there was another shirt not owned by Oswald that left clean fibers on C2766 that matched those of the shirt worn by Oswald when captured at the TT.
Of course you believe that, but just because you believe it doesn't make it true or factual. The mistake you made was that you did not say that you believed that the fibers came from that shirt. Instead you presented it as a fact that they did and that was wrong.
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You mean that you don't believe the fibers came from Oswald's shirt.
It doesn't matter what I believe or not. You made the claim that the fibers came "from that shirt" when there is no supporting evidence for that conclusion.
You cannot offer any conclusive proof those fibers did not come from that shirt.
I also can not prove in any way shape or form that those fibers did not come from one of your grandparent's shirts. Fortunately, I don't have to prove anything as I do not make any claim. I know this a difficult concept for you to understand but it's the person who makes the claim that needs to provide proof for that claim.
I believe the circumstances and the fiber analysis has immense probative value because it would be quite a coincidence there was another shirt not owned by Oswald that left clean fibers on C2766 that matched those of the shirt worn by Oswald when captured at the TT.
Of course you believe that, but just because you believe it doesn't make it true or factual. The mistake you made was that you did not say that you believed that the fibers came from that shirt. Instead you presented it as a fact that they did and that was wrong.
By my believing the fibers came from Oswalds shirt it automatically makes it a fact to my satisfaction. In the WR the conclusion was the fibers "most probably" came from the shirt Oswald wore on the day he was arrested. Agent Stombaugh concluded, "there is no doubt in my mind that this fibers could have come from this shirt. There is no way, however, to eliminate the possibility of the fibers having come from another identical shirt." WR page 124
IMO, Agent Stombaugh has made as definite match as possible without having to go to the extreme level of confidence that would say to the exclusion of all other shirts. IMO, based on the circumstances and the fiber analysis there's no doubt in my mind those fibers came from Oswalds shirt.
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By my believing the fibers came from Oswalds shirt it automatically makes it a fact to my satisfaction. In the WR the conclusion was the fibers "most probably" came from the shirt Oswald wore on the day he was arrested. Agent Stombaugh concluded, "there is no doubt in my mind that this fibers could have come from this shirt. There is no way, however, to eliminate the possibility of the fibers having come from another identical shirt." WR page 124
IMO, Agent Stombaugh has made as definite match as possible without having to go to the extreme level of confidence that would say to the exclusion of all other shirts. IMO, based on the circumstances and the fiber analysis there's no doubt in my mind those fibers came from Oswalds shirt.
By my believing the fibers came from Oswalds shirt it automatically makes it a fact to my satisfaction.
And just because you believe it is a fact means that it must be a fact for everybody else as well? .... Are you really that arrogant?
IMO, Agent Stombaugh has made as definite match as possible without having to go to the extreme level of confidence that would say to the exclusion of all other shirts
And yet, you just call it a fact....pfff
IMO, based on the circumstances and the fiber analysis there's no doubt in my mind those fibers came from Oswalds shirt.
Exactly... IN YOUR OPINION! .... but an opinion isn't the same as a fact!
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Yes, I own the mistake. But you also followed along gleefully and failed to notice that C399 is not the magic bullet. Since you guys are so fond of splitting hairs I'll join the club too. C2766 is the rifle. Mistake corrected.
Wrong again, Dufuss.... CE 139 is the rifle... The serial number on the rifle is C2766.....
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Once when I was playing tourist I took the tour of the Beckley house. If you are ever in Dallas I highly suggest you do so. The tour guide who knew quite a bit about the assassination said there were 16 renters living there at that time. I was amazed.
Is there any testimony from any of the other 15 about Oswald?
A great question. I would be interested in hearing what they had to say.
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Mary Bledsoe positively identified the shirt well before her deposition. Well before she was ever asked to give a deposition actually. She was shown the shirt on Dec 4, 1963 by two FBI agents and, because of the hole in the right elbow, was able to positively identify it for them. She did not receive notification that she was required to appear before the Commission until March 1964.
Can you provide evidence showing that LHO stayed at her rooming house as claimed by the WC?
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What needs explaining?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=309&tab=page
That statement has more holes in it than any shirt does. She saw the shirt and said "no that's not the shirt" !!! Come on man!! She has to see a hole in the shirt in order to identify it? After some apparent and most obvious prompting there she then dutifully identified the shirt. The FBI used the woman who apparently had a 3rd grade mentality. I've said it before...Believe what you want.
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Believe what you want.
Thank you.
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Wrong again, Dufuss.... CE 139 is the rifle... The serial number on the rifle is C2766.....
They're both the same article, doughnut head. C399 is nothing yet you assigned it to the magic bullet which is CE-399.
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They're both the same article, doughnut head. C399 is nothing yet you assigned it to the magic bullet which is CE-399.
Yup. That he did.
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Well, since you're so anxious to find mistakes you have made one yourself in pointing out mine. C399 is not the magic bullet it's CE-399. :P
Oscar Oscar Oscar...We see that you guys are only just interested in playing the gotcha game here. One fiber or one thread was found [supposedly] and eureka the case is solved? There are threads on everything that can come from anything. Take a fiber from your underwear ....Go play with a microscope and see what walks around.
Why is the FBI so believed now when it is obvious that it was/is quite the nefarious organization along with the other alphabet-ed government arms? Why was the Kennedy hater J Edgar Hoover so trustworthy?
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Hoovers%20Official%20and%20Confidential%20Files/Item%2010.pdf
Is there any testimony from any of the other 15 about Oswald?
None. I wondered that many posts earlier. Also, read the strange testimony of A C Johnson.
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Why is the FBI so believed now when it is obvious that it was/is quite the nefarious organization along with the other alphabet-ed government arms? Why was the Kennedy hater J Edgar Hoover so trustworthy?
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Hoovers%20Official%20and%20Confidential%20Files/Item%2010.pdf.
Jerry "empty the jails" Freeman,
Why should the anonymous author of that newspaper article be considered trustworthy?
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Why should the anonymous author of that newspaper article be considered trustworthy?
Well Snickers...why should the author of any article be deemed trustworthy?
Look at all the stuff you've written.
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They're both the same article, doughnut head. C399 is nothing yet you assigned it to the magic bullet which is CE-399.
You're PATHETIC, Narvarro.... A damned sneaky coward who isn't man enough to admit he's wrong about anything....
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You're PATHETIC, Narvarro.... A damned sneaky coward who isn't man enough to admit he's wrong about anything....
You sound like Yosemite Sam when you get riled up. :D
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You sound like Yosemite Sam when you get riled up. :D
Riled up? I'm merely expressing my observations..... But maybe I should change my avatar ..... Yosemite Sam might be better...
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Oscar Oscar Oscar...We see that you guys are only just interested in playing the gotcha game here. One fiber or one thread was found [supposedly] and eureka the case is solved? There are threads on everything that can come from anything. Take a fiber from your underwear ....Go play with a microscope and see what walks around.
Why is the FBI so believed now when it is obvious that it was/is quite the nefarious organization along with the other alphabet-ed government arms? Why was the Kennedy hater J Edgar Hoover so trustworthy?
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Hoovers%20Official%20and%20Confidential%20Files/Item%2010.pdfNone. I wondered that many posts earlier. Also, read the strange testimony of A C Johnson.
Jerry, you compared our Mr Haywire to another poster that Duncan booted a year, or so, ago.... What was that guy's name?
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Oscar Oscar Oscar...We see that you guys are only just interested in playing the gotcha game here. One fiber or one thread was found [supposedly] and eureka the case is solved? There are threads on everything that can come from anything. Take a fiber from your underwear ....Go play with a microscope and see what walks around.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....To paraphrase dean Vernon Wormer of Animal House "Basing your opinions on bad information is no way to go through life, boy."
St. Oswald the Patsys' shirt CE-150 was composed of the following fibers; "Gray-black, dark blue and orange yellow cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black cotton fibers were of uniform shade and the dark blue fibers were of three different shades.. All the fibers were mercerized and of substantially uniform degree of twist." WR, page 591
".....Stombaugh found that a tiny tuft of fibers had caught on a jagged edge of the rifle's butt plate where it met the end of the wooden stock, and had adhered to this edge.....Stombaugh described these fibers as "fresh" ........Examination showed that the tuft was composed of six or seven orange- yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. These fibers were compared with fiibers from the shirt, Commission Exhibit No. 150, which was also composed of orange-yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black tuft fibers matched the comparable shirt fibers in all observable characteristics, i.e., shade and twist. The three dark-blue fibers matched two of the three shades of the dark-blue shirt fibers, and also matched the dark-blue fibers in degree of twist." WR, page 592
Contrary to your ill-advised claim that only one fiber (or thread) was found, the actual count is of the five types of fibers found in CE-150 four of the fibers found in the tuft on CE-139 matched. So, yes. The odds of a fresh tuft of fibers found on CE-139 matching 90% of the fibers found on CE-150 is so low as to be a coincidence that the only logical conclusion is that the evidence presented above points directly at St. Oswald the Patsy having handled CE-139
while wearing CE-150. Add this evidence to all the other evidence that connects ownership of CE-139 to St. Oswald the Patsy, to ownership of CE-150 and of having worn that same shirt on the day of Nov 22, 1963, and all the evidence that points to CE-139 having fired the shots that killed JFK and wounded JBC, and you have solved the crime that links LHO to the murder of JFK and the wounding of JBC.
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You're PATHETIC, Narvarro.... A damned sneaky coward who isn't man enough to admit he's wrong about anything....
It's Navarro, doughnut head.
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Riled up? I'm merely expressing my observations..... But maybe I should change my avatar ..... Yosemite Sam might be better...
Foghorn Leghorn would suit you just as good.
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I agree with one thing m.crary claims. Henry Wade was definitely in on it.
Absolutely... Henry Wade was one of the key conspirators....
Says Foghorn Leghorn. Not that there's any but I just have to ask if there's any evidence to support that ridiculous conclusion. I mean real, credible evidence based on reality.
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just have to ask if there's any evidence to support .....
Support what? That Wade was a liar? Oscar oh Oscar why do you forsake us?
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shirt CE-150 -----
Oswald was wearing shirt CE-151 to work according to the description of policeman Marion Baker that questioned him at the 'second floor' encounter and that Oswald said he changed his clothes after he got home.
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Support what? That Wade was a liar? Oscar oh Oscar why do you forsake us?
Wade was badly misinformed when he made that ill advised news conference but it neither proofs that he was a liar (intentionally misleading the public with false information) or that he was a conspirator.
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Oswald was wearing shirt CE-151 to work according to the description of policeman Marion Baker that questioned him at the 'second floor' encounter and that Oswald said he changed his clothes after he got home.
Which is why relying on witness statements without corroborating evidence is not the best kind of evidence. CE-150 had a hole in the right elbow which Mary Bledsoe pointed out and the bus transfer ticket was found in the CE-150 shirt pocket.
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Which is why relying on witness statements without corroborating evidence is not the best kind of evidence. CE-150 had a hole in the right elbow which Mary Bledsoe pointed out and the bus transfer ticket was found in the CE-150 shirt pocket.
Oscar, how did Mrs Bledsoe see a hole in Oswald's shirt when he was, according to witnesses, wearing two jackets?
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....To paraphrase dean Vernon Wormer of Animal House "Basing your opinions on bad information is no way to go through life, boy."
St. Oswald the Patsys' shirt CE-150 was composed of the following fibers; "Gray-black, dark blue and orange yellow cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black cotton fibers were of uniform shade and the dark blue fibers were of three different shades.. All the fibers were mercerized and of substantially uniform degree of twist." WR, page 591
".....Stombaugh found that a tiny tuft of fibers had caught on a jagged edge of the rifle's butt plate where it met the end of the wooden stock, and had adhered to this edge.....Stombaugh described these fibers as "fresh" ........Examination showed that the tuft was composed of six or seven orange- yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. These fibers were compared with fiibers from the shirt, Commission Exhibit No. 150, which was also composed of orange-yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black tuft fibers matched the comparable shirt fibers in all observable characteristics, i.e., shade and twist. The three dark-blue fibers matched two of the three shades of the dark-blue shirt fibers, and also matched the dark-blue fibers in degree of twist." WR, page 592
Contrary to your ill-advised claim that only one fiber (or thread) was found, the actual count is of the five types of fibers found in CE-150 four of the fibers found in the tuft on CE-139 matched. So, yes. The odds of a fresh tuft of fibers found on CE-139 matching 90% of the fibers found on CE-150 is so low as to be a coincidence that the only logical conclusion is that the evidence presented above points directly at St. Oswald the Patsy having handled CE-139
while wearing CE-150. Add this evidence to all the other evidence that connects ownership of CE-139 to St. Oswald the Patsy, to ownership of CE-150 and of having worn that same shirt on the day of Nov 22, 1963, and all the evidence that points to CE-139 having fired the shots that killed JFK and wounded JBC, and you have solved the crime that links LHO to the murder of JFK and the wounding of JBC.
Lee Oswald the Patsys' shirt CE-150 was composed of the following fibers; "Gray-black, dark blue and orange yellow cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black cotton fibers were of uniform shade and the dark blue fibers were of three different shades.. All the fibers were mercerized and of substantially uniform degree of twist." WR, page 591
".....Stombaugh found that a tiny tuft of fibers had caught on a jagged edge of the rifle's butt plate where it met the end of the wooden stock, and had adhered to this edge.....Stombaugh described these fibers as "fresh" ........Examination showed that the tuft was composed of six or seven orange- yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. These fibers were compared with fiibers from the shirt, Commission Exhibit No. 150, which was also composed of orange-yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black tuft fibers matched the comparable shirt fibers in all observable characteristics, i.e., shade and twist. The three dark-blue fibers matched two of the three shades of the dark-blue shirt fibers, and also matched the dark-blue fibers in degree of twist." WR, page 592
Question for you... Mr Narvarroo ( who lives in a zoo)
It is a fact that Lee went to his room and changed his shirt and trousers at about 1:00PM .... President Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM which was about a half hour prior to Lee's visit to his room to change his clothes...
The FBI claimed the tuft of fibers matched the shirt that Lee Was wearing AT THE THEATER....... They apparently didn't know that Lee had changed his shirt, and they assumed that it was the same shirt that he was wearing at the time the carcano rifle was allegedly being fired at JFK. They thought that the tuft of fibers would link Lee Oswald to the alleged murder weapon.
But even a addled brained dunce could probably understand that the tuft of fibers should have matched the shirt that Lee had left in the rooming house and NOT the shirt that he was wearing at the time of his arrest....
IF the fibers matched the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was arrested then it's obvious that those fibers got on the butt plate of the carcano AFTER both the rifle and the shirt were in the hands of the police.....
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....To paraphrase dean Vernon Wormer of Animal House "Basing your opinions on bad information is no way to go through life, boy."
St. Oswald the Patsys' shirt CE-150 was composed of the following fibers; "Gray-black, dark blue and orange yellow cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black cotton fibers were of uniform shade and the dark blue fibers were of three different shades.. All the fibers were mercerized and of substantially uniform degree of twist." WR, page 591
".....Stombaugh found that a tiny tuft of fibers had caught on a jagged edge of the rifle's butt plate where it met the end of the wooden stock, and had adhered to this edge.....Stombaugh described these fibers as "fresh" ........Examination showed that the tuft was composed of six or seven orange- yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. These fibers were compared with fiibers from the shirt, Commission Exhibit No. 150, which was also composed of orange-yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black tuft fibers matched the comparable shirt fibers in all observable characteristics, i.e., shade and twist. The three dark-blue fibers matched two of the three shades of the dark-blue shirt fibers, and also matched the dark-blue fibers in degree of twist." WR, page 592
Contrary to your ill-advised claim that only one fiber (or thread) was found, the actual count is of the five types of fibers found in CE-150 four of the fibers found in the tuft on CE-139 matched. So, yes. The odds of a fresh tuft of fibers found on CE-139 matching 90% of the fibers found on CE-150 is so low as to be a coincidence that the only logical conclusion is that the evidence presented above points directly at St. Oswald the Patsy having handled CE-139
while wearing CE-150. Add this evidence to all the other evidence that connects ownership of CE-139 to St. Oswald the Patsy, to ownership of CE-150 and of having worn that same shirt on the day of Nov 22, 1963, and all the evidence that points to CE-139 having fired the shots that killed JFK and wounded JBC, and you have solved the crime that links LHO to the murder of JFK and the wounding of JBC.
My Dear Oscar... It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to deliver to you... bad news.....
Please review the reports of the witnesses at the scene of the murder of Officer J.D. Tippit, And also check the DPD radio description of the man who was wanted for shooting JD Tippit.
I believe you'll find that the man was wearing a WHITE shirt.....
What color was Lee Oswald's shirt when he was dragged from the theater?
It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to point out that Mr Oswald's shirt was NOT WHITE.....
With deep regret and sympathy...
Walt
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What needs explaining?
Mary Bledsoe positively identified the shirt well before her deposition. Well before she was ever asked to give a deposition actually. She was shown the shirt on Dec 4, 1963 by two FBI agents and, because of the hole in the right elbow, was able to positively identify it for them. She did not receive notification that she was required to appear before the Commission until March 1964.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=309&tab=page
When was it proven that LHO wore CE 150 to the TSBD on the morning of November 22?
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When was it proven that LHO wore CE 150 to the TSBD on the morning of November 22?
When was it proven..
There was a trial?
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When was it proven..
There was a trial?
So that is a no. Got it.
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So that is a no. Got it.
'Brown shirt, silver stripes'--- William Whaley*
Got it?
*You know, the guy that drove the cab
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Oscar, how did Mrs Bledsoe see a hole in Oswald's shirt when he was, according to witnesses, wearing two jackets?
Ray,
Who were the witnesses who said that he was wearing two jackets? There were some who thought that the shirt he had on looked like a jacket, but I'd never heard of any who said he had two jackets on.
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My Dear Oscar... It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to deliver to you... bad news.....
Please review the reports of the witnesses at the scene of the murder of Officer J.D. Tippit, And also check the DPD radio description of the man who was wanted for shooting JD Tippit.
I believe you'll find that the man was wearing a WHITE shirt.....
What color was Lee Oswald's shirt when he was dragged from the theater?
It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to point out that Mr Oswald's shirt was NOT WHITE.....
With deep regret and sympathy...
Walt
You need to have your eyes checked Walt. Oswald was wearing a white shirt when he was dragged from the theatre.
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Ray,
Who were the witnesses who said that he was wearing two jackets? There were some who thought that the shirt he had on looked like a jacket, but I'd never heard of any who said he had two jackets on.
William Whaley said that the passenger in his cab was wearing two jackets....
I suspect that ol bull shippin Whaley was deeply regretting the tall tale he had created for his cabbie buddies....By making the outrageous statement about his passenger wearing all that clothing he hoped they would dismiss him....
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William Whaley said that the passenger in his cab was wearing two jackets....
I suspect that ol bull shippin Whaley was deeply regretting the tall tale he had created for his cabbie buddies....By making the outrageous statement about his passenger wearing all that clothing he hoped they would dismiss him....
Whaley was a witness. Ray used the term "witnesses".
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Redundancy ...Bledsoe upon seeing CE-150 stated that 'No No that is not the shirt' Oswald was wearing....but then could somehow identify a hole in the sleeve. How stupid is that?
She said in her statement that she had only glanced at him and then turned away not wanting him to see her. On the other hand, Wes Frazier spent the entire morning meeting with Oswald and driving him to work and then when Frazier was shown that same shirt [CE-150] he was UNABLE TO IDENTIFY IT. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=311&tab=page
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BUMP [with some addition]
During his testimony, A C Johnson [owner of 1026 Beckley rooms] provided some interesting information.
Who all knew that his housekeeper --Mrs Roberts had ducked out on them without notice one night? Johnson couldn't remember what particular night though. He said she left 3 or 4 weeks before this testimony....[just vanished?]
A C stated that he had heard that JFK had died before he got home that day that the announcement had come right at 1:00 PM Dallas time. A C testified that he had come home to the 1026 Beckley house just afterwards. The police had arrived between 1:30 and 2:00 looking for Oswald...Lee Harvey Oswald.
I believe it is singular that the police are looking for LHO when they couldn't have possibly known that he had done anything criminal.
Mr. BELIN. And did you hear this on the radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. No. Uh--we have a friend that is a policeman, works for Cotton Belt Railroad. And he called us--called up here and told us. Of course, we had heard all the sirens and everything, you know, going, and we couldn't imagine what it was. And Nicholson called us and told us that he had heard it over the radio.
Mr. BELIN. He had heard over the radio that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And then, did you turn on your radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. We don't have one there in the place, so we went out in the car and sat there in the car and listened.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And was it while you were sitting in the car that you heard that the President had died?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; we didn't leave until we--it was announced that he was dead.
Mr. BELIN. How soon after that announcement did you leave?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'd say 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Then, how long did it take you to get to 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. It takes us about 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. So that about 10 minutes after you heard on the radio that the President had been shot, you arrived with your wife at 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone? Was Mrs. Roberts there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; she was there at the television.
Mr. BELIN. She was watching television?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Had this man, O. H. Lee, was he there when you got there?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; he had been there--just--uh--before we got home.
Mr. BELIN. Did Mrs. Roberts tell you that he had?
Mr. JOHNSON. She told us that he come in and got a--uh--little coat or something and just walked in his room and right back out the door.
That statement was glossed over and smoothed away saying that this conversation occurred AFTER the cops came. BTW how considerate of this policeman/railroad worker friend to take time out from the all the chaos that was ensuing to call the Johnsons and re-report the news that he heard on the radio. Belin failed to specify the difference there between shot- and dead. The president was SHOT at 12:30 and he was pronounced DEAD at 1:00 [but not announced dead publicly for another half hour]
Why did the cops come to 1026 Beckley?
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket....comment- [that just couldn't be like Oswald had a paper in his possession stating 'I live at 1026 N Beckley'] :D
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right. What happened when the officers got there? They asked if Lee Harvey Oswald lived there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
The timeline as testified by A C Johnson seems totally out of kilter [There were four months available to prepare his story] ::)
So for some reason, Oswald had the Beckley address on him...Why? And it was found when he was somehow searched by the police before [according to the clock] he was even arrested.
[How very odd that David Belin failed to even try and correct Mr Johnson's bogus testimony]
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You need to have your eyes checked Walt. Oswald was wearing a white shirt when he was dragged from the theatre.
Oh really???.... Hmmmm that's weird..The FBI reported the shirt was composed of DARK BLUE, GRAY-BLACK, and ORANGE -YELLOW, fibers.
In what institution could those colors be called WHITE?
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Oh really???.... Hmmmm that's weird..The FBI reported the shirt was composed of DARK BLUE, GRAY-BLACK, and ORANGE -YELLOW, fibers.
In what institution could those colors be called WHITE?
You're referring to his brown shirt. I'm referring to the one he had on underneath it.
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You're referring to his brown shirt. I'm referring to the one he had on underneath it.
Oh so you're attempting to sucker some folks into believing that the witnesses were referring to Lee's white undershirt ( tee shirt)
That's really pathetic...Snickerson....it's something an elementary school kid might attempt.
The witnesses said that the killer was wearing a ( various colors, but most said GRAY) Jacket with a WHITE shirt beneath the jacket.
And as to your term "his BROWN shirt"...The photos of Lee being dragged from the theater show that the shirt was a tawny GRAY and it most certainly is NOT the vibrant BROWN shirt that was presented as his arrest shirt.
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Oh so you're attempting to sucker some folks into believing that the witnesses were referring to Lee's white undershirt ( tee shirt)
That's really pathetic...Snickerson....it's something an elementary school kid might attempt.
The witnesses said that the killer was wearing a ( various colors, but most said GRAY) Jacket with a WHITE shirt beneath the jacket.
And as to your term "his BROWN shirt"...The photos of Lee being dragged from the theater show that the shirt was a tawny GRAY and it most certainly is NOT the vibrant BROWN shirt that was presented as his arrest shirt.
You claimed that Oswald's shirt was not white. You were wrong.
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You claimed that Oswald's shirt was not white. You were wrong.
No, I was 100% correct....The witnesses reported that the killer was wearing a WHITE shirt beneath a jacket...They sure as hell were not referring to the man's underwear ( how utterly ridiculous!)
Lee Oswald was NOT wearing a white shirt ....And thank you for making an damned fool of yourself, Tim.
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Oh really???.... Hmmmm that's weird..The FBI reported the shirt was composed of DARK BLUE, GRAY-BLACK, and ORANGE -YELLOW, fibers.
In what institution could those colors be called WHITE?
Officer Baker described the shirt Oswald was wearing in the TSBD as a brown jacket.
So do I have to go look up that testimony ...AGAIN? Below is a colored photo of the shirt (designated Ce150), clearly showing that there is no stripe or white spots as Whaley claimed.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PGveZEH-L1s/UGtc478OVOI/AAAAAAAAAHE/6lHq4LBtw3w/s1600/JFK+-+Oswald+dark+brown+shirt.jpg) (http://www.patspeer.com/_/rsrc/1269013585390/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22/threads.jpg)
Here below is that thread called Oswald's shirt. CE-151 looks like the dirty shirt that Bledsoe mentions. If she was ever shown CE-151 I am not sure.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,771.msg16387.html#msg16387
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Officer Baker described the shirt Oswald was wearing in the TSBD as a brown jacket.
So do I have to go look up that testimony ...AGAIN? Below is a colored photo of the shirt (designated Ce150), clearly showing that there is no stripe or white spots as Whaley claimed.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PGveZEH-L1s/UGtc478OVOI/AAAAAAAAAHE/6lHq4LBtw3w/s1600/JFK+-+Oswald+dark+brown+shirt.jpg) (http://www.patspeer.com/_/rsrc/1269013585390/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22/threads.jpg)
Here below is that thread called Oswald's shirt. CE-151 looks like the dirty shirt that Bledsoe mentions. If she was ever shown CE-151 I am not sure.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,771.msg16387.html#msg16387
FBI Agent Bardwell Odum described the shirt that Oswald was wearing as a reddish brown jacket.
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Ray,
Who were the witnesses who said that he was wearing two jackets? There were some who thought that the shirt he had on looked like a jacket, but I'd never heard of any who said he had two jackets on.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants.
Mr. WHALEY. I am not sure about the pants. I wouldn't be sure of the shirt if it hadn't had that light stripe in it. I just noticed that.
Mr. BALL. Here is Commission No. 162 which is a gray jacket with zipper.
Mr. WHALEY. I thank that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me in the cab.
Mr. BALL. Look something like it?
And here is Commission Exhibit No. 163, does this look like anything he had on?
Mr. WHALEY. He had this one on or the other one.
Mr. BALL. That is right.
Mr. WHALEY. That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the shirt being open, he had on the two jackets with the open shirt.
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, we have got the shirt which you have identified as the rust brown shirt with the gold stripe in it.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You said that a jacket--
Mr. WHALEY. That jacket now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here on over that other jacket, I am sure, sir.
Mr. BALL. This is the blue-gray jacket, heavy blue-gray jacket.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And that is about seven or eight blocks from the Texas Book Depository Building, isn't it?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir. It would be seven, I would say that is seven, it would be about seven blocks.
Mr. BALL - From there?
Mr. McWATTERS - From there, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did the man look like who knocked on your door and got on your bus?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I didn't pay any particular attention to him. He was to me just dressed in what I would call work clothes, just some type of little old jacket on, and I didn't pay any particular attention to the man when he got on-
Mr. BALL - Paid his fare, did he?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; he just paid his fare and sat down on the second cross seat on the right.
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Oscar, how did Mrs Bledsoe see a hole in Oswald's shirt when he was, according to witnesses, wearing two jackets?
Witnesses who saw Oswald after the shootings at Dealey Plaza had different descriptions of what Oswald was wearing. Officer Baker (I'm paraphrasing here) assumed he saw Oswald wearing a light brown jacket but he also said he wasn't paying too much attention to what he was wearing as his attention was to Oswald's face. just 30 to 45 seconds later Mrs. Reid said Oswald was wearing a white T-shirt. A few minutes later Mary Bledsoe identified Oswald as wearing CE-150 as did Whaley a few minutes later. Whaley's description of what Oswald was wearing is confusing as he first states Oswald was wearing a jacket, then another jacket like the one Oswald left behind at the TSBD, and then says Oswald was wearing two jackets. Why anyone would be wearing two jackets on a mild weather day is unreasonable, IMO. I just think Whaley got confused on the jacket issue but he was very perceptive when it came to the bracelet.
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Lee Oswald the Patsys' shirt CE-150 was composed of the following fibers; "Gray-black, dark blue and orange yellow cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black cotton fibers were of uniform shade and the dark blue fibers were of three different shades.. All the fibers were mercerized and of substantially uniform degree of twist." WR, page 591
".....Stombaugh found that a tiny tuft of fibers had caught on a jagged edge of the rifle's butt plate where it met the end of the wooden stock, and had adhered to this edge.....Stombaugh described these fibers as "fresh" ........Examination showed that the tuft was composed of six or seven orange- yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. These fibers were compared with fiibers from the shirt, Commission Exhibit No. 150, which was also composed of orange-yellow, gray-black, and dark-blue cotton fibers. The orange-yellow and gray-black tuft fibers matched the comparable shirt fibers in all observable characteristics, i.e., shade and twist. The three dark-blue fibers matched two of the three shades of the dark-blue shirt fibers, and also matched the dark-blue fibers in degree of twist." WR, page 592
Question for you... Mr Narvarroo ( who lives in a zoo)
It is a fact that Lee went to his room and changed his shirt and trousers at about 1:00PM .... President Kennedy was murdered at 12:30 PM which was about a half hour prior to Lee's visit to his room to change his clothes...
The FBI claimed the tuft of fibers matched the shirt that Lee Was wearing AT THE THEATER....... They apparently didn't know that Lee had changed his shirt, and they assumed that it was the same shirt that he was wearing at the time the carcano rifle was allegedly being fired at JFK. They thought that the tuft of fibers would link Lee Oswald to the alleged murder weapon.
But even a addled brained dunce could probably understand that the tuft of fibers should have matched the shirt that Lee had left in the rooming house and NOT the shirt that he was wearing at the time of his arrest....
IF the fibers matched the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was arrested then it's obvious that those fibers got on the butt plate of the carcano AFTER both the rifle and the shirt were in the hands of the police.....
No, it is not a fact Oswald changed his shirt. That is just Oswald's claim on the second day of interrogation. The real facts are that Oswald was identified by two witnesses (Bledsoe and Whaley) as wearing CE-150 before he arrived at the N. Beckley rooming house and that the bus transfer was found on his shirt pocket after his arrest. This indicates that the DPD didn't have to go through the trouble of trying to implicate Oswald by transferring fibers from CE-150 to C2766 so you can scratch one more of your idiotic conspiracy theories from that ever expanding CT file.
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FBI Agent Bardwell Odum described the shirt that Oswald was wearing as a reddish brown jacket.
When/where did this happen?
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My Dear Oscar... It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to deliver to you... bad news.....
Please review the reports of the witnesses at the scene of the murder of Officer J.D. Tippit, And also check the DPD radio description of the man who was wanted for shooting JD Tippit.
I believe you'll find that the man was wearing a WHITE shirt.....
What color was Lee Oswald's shirt when he was dragged from the theater?
It is with deep regret that I'm compelled to point out that Mr Oswald's shirt was NOT WHITE.....
With deep regret and sympathy...
Walt
Oh, my dear Foghorn Leghorn. You never fail to amuse me with your ramblings. The witnesses at the Tippit shooting were describing the jacket Oswald had on. They gave different versions of the tone but they weren't too far of in the general description. Anyways, the color of the shirt Oswald had on played no role with the DPD when it came to the suspects description and Oswald's subsequent arrest at the TT. All you have to do is check out Julia Postal's testimony of the description of the suspect where she describes the shirt as a brown sports shirt.
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Witnesses who saw Oswald after the shootings at Dealey Plaza had different descriptions of what Oswald was wearing. Officer Baker (I'm paraphrasing here) assumed he saw Oswald wearing a light brown jacket but he also said he wasn't paying too much attention to what he was wearing as his attention was to Oswald's face. just 30 to 45 seconds later Mrs. Reid said Oswald was wearing a white T-shirt. A few minutes later Mary Bledsoe identified Oswald as wearing CE-150 as did Whaley a few minutes later. Whaley's description of what Oswald was wearing is confusing as he first states Oswald was wearing a jacket, then another jacket like the one Oswald left behind at the TSBD, and then says Oswald was wearing two jackets. Why anyone would be wearing two jackets on a mild weather day is unreasonable, IMO. I just think Whaley got confused on the jacket issue but he was very perceptive when it came to the bracelet.
So McWatters must have been mistaken, as well. Whaley did well on the bracelet but not on the jackets. Come Oscar you can do better than that.
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Witnesses who saw Oswald after the shootings at Dealey Plaza had different descriptions of what Oswald was wearing. Officer Baker (I'm paraphrasing here) assumed he saw Oswald wearing a light brown jacket but he also said he wasn't paying too much attention to what he was wearing as his attention was to Oswald's face. just 30 to 45 seconds later Mrs. Reid said Oswald was wearing a white T-shirt. A few minutes later Mary Bledsoe identified Oswald as wearing CE-150 as did Whaley a few minutes later. Whaley's description of what Oswald was wearing is confusing as he first states Oswald was wearing a jacket, then another jacket like the one Oswald left behind at the TSBD, and then says Oswald was wearing two jackets. Why anyone would be wearing two jackets on a mild weather day is unreasonable, IMO. I just think Whaley got confused on the jacket issue but he was very perceptive when it came to the bracelet.
Whaley's description of what Oswald was wearing is confusing as he first states Oswald was wearing a jacket, then another jacket like the one Oswald left behind at the TSBD, and then says Oswald was wearing two jackets. Why anyone would be wearing two jackets on a mild weather day is unreasonable, IMO. I just think Whaley got confused on the jacket issue
I believe that Whaley regretted that he had allowed his bull stuff about carrying a dangerous assassin in his cab, to escalate, and was trying to get recused by making irrational and goofy statements....(He even told the attorney, that any defense attorney could pick his tale apart)
But LBJ's cover up committee desperately needed Whaley's cock-a-manie tale, and they were not going to recuse him.
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Redundancy ...Bledsoe upon seeing CE-150 stated that 'No No that is not the shirt' Oswald was wearing....but then could somehow identify a hole in the sleeve. How stupid is that?
She said in her statement that she had only glanced at him and then turned away not wanting him to see her. On the other hand, Wes Frazier spent the entire morning meeting with Oswald and driving him to work and then when Frazier was shown that same shirt [CE-150] he was UNABLE TO IDENTIFY IT. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=311&tab=page
You are misrepresenting what Mrs. Bledsoe said.
Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
That was in a nutshell Mrs. Bledsoe's description of the shirt Oswald had when he boarded the bus. Her testimony about the description of the shirt begins with describing it as a brown shirt and ends with identifying the hole on the right elbow of the sleeve.
Using Frazier's statement to buttress your misguided argument is also a mistake. Frazier said he was not paying attention to what Oswald was wearing but was sure he was wearing a jacket that morning. It would be unreasonable to expect Frazier to identify what shirt Oswald was wearing since he had a jacket on and Frazier was not paying attention to what Oswald was wearing.
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Officer Baker described the shirt Oswald was wearing in the TSBD as a brown jacket.
So do I have to go look up that testimony ...AGAIN? Below is a colored photo of the shirt (designated Ce150), clearly showing that there is no stripe or white spots as Whaley claimed.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PGveZEH-L1s/UGtc478OVOI/AAAAAAAAAHE/6lHq4LBtw3w/s1600/JFK+-+Oswald+dark+brown+shirt.jpg) (http://www.patspeer.com/_/rsrc/1269013585390/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22/threads.jpg)
Here below is that thread called Oswald's shirt. CE-151 looks like the dirty shirt that Bledsoe mentions. If she was ever shown CE-151 I am not sure.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,771.msg16387.html#msg16387
Another Jerry misrepresentation of what a witness said. Officer Baker did not say Oswald was wearing a brown jacket. Yes, you should look up Bakers testimony and post it. You also claimed on another post that what Baker described Oswald was wearing as CE-151. Post that too!
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So McWatters must have been mistaken, as well. Whaley did well on the bracelet but not on the jackets. Come Oscar you can do better than that.
Like I've pointed out, Ray. Relying solely on witness testimony is a mistake. Look at the big picture and corroborating testimony along with the forensic evidence to arrive at a reasonable and sound conclusion.
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Whaley's description of what Oswald was wearing is confusing as he first states Oswald was wearing a jacket, then another jacket like the one Oswald left behind at the TSBD, and then says Oswald was wearing two jackets. Why anyone would be wearing two jackets on a mild weather day is unreasonable, IMO. I just think Whaley got confused on the jacket issue
I believe that Whaley regretted that he had allowed his bull stuff about carrying a dangerous assassin in his cab, to escalate, and was trying to get recused by making irrational and goofy statements....(He even told the attorney, that any defense attorney could pick his tale apart)
But LBJ's cover up committee desperately needed Whaley's cock-a-manie tale, and they were not going to recuse him.
LBJ's cover up committee (as you call it) didn't need Whaley's testimony. It was Whaley who volunteered the information. If it had not been for Whaley LBJCUC would have gone with Oswald's first day of interrogation claim that he took a bus to his rooming house.
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You are misrepresenting what Mrs. Bledsoe said.
Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
That was in a nutshell Mrs. Bledsoe's description of the shirt Oswald had when he boarded the bus. Her testimony about the description of the shirt begins with describing it as a brown shirt and ends with identifying the hole on the right elbow of the sleeve.
Using Frazier's statement to buttress your misguided argument is also a mistake. Frazier said he was not paying attention to what Oswald was wearing but was sure he was wearing a jacket that morning. It would be unreasonable to expect Frazier to identify what shirt Oswald was wearing since he had a jacket on and Frazier was not paying attention to what Oswald was wearing.
Whoa!!.... Wait jest a darned minute.... We need to account for the two Jackets that Whaley said his passenger was wearing over a brown shirt with a silver thread running through the material.....
How the hell can Bledsoe and Whaley be describing the same man?.....Bledsoe says the man was wearing a shirt and she saw a hole at the elbow of that shirt , while Whaley says the man he saw was wearing a shirt and TWO jackets.... Whaley elaborated and said that the man's Jacket was BLUE and were like his trousers ....Kind of like a blue uniform.
There is good solid reason to doubt BOTH Bledsoe and Whaley.....Bledsoe (MAY??) have seen Lee Oswald on Mc Watter's bus, but it's equally possible that she made up the story, or had seen Lee on a bus at some other time...
And William Whaley's tale is simply unbelievable.....
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Whoa!!.... Wait jest a darned minute.... We need to account for the two Jackets that Whaley said his passenger was wearing over a brown shirt with a silver thread running through the material.....
How the hell can Bledsoe and Whaley be describing the same man?.....Bledsoe says the man was wearing a shirt and she saw a hole at the elbow of that shirt , while Whaley says the man he saw was wearing a shirt and TWO jackets.... Whaley elaborated and said that the man's Jacket was BLUE and were like his trousers ....Kind of like a blue uniform.
There is good solid reason to doubt BOTH Bledsoe and Whaley.....Bledsoe (MAY??) have seen Lee Oswald on Mc Watter's bus, but it's equally possible that she made up the story, or had seen Lee on a bus at some other time...
And William Whaley's tale is simply unbelievable.....
In Mrs. Bledsoe's case she new Oswald before he entered the Marsalis bus. It wouldn't have mattered if Oswald was wearing a Cinderella costume she would have recognized him anyway because not only had she rented him a room (very nice one compared to that closet at N. Beckley) but Oswald had made a very unfavorable impression on her.
In Whaley's case there's the trip manifest (if that's what it's called) that has Whaley taking a rider to 500 N. Beckley at 12:30 p. m. Whaley testified that he did not necessarily jot down the correct times but made estimates in 15 minute increments, or when he had the time to jot down the times, so 12:30 p. m. shouldn't be taken down as the exact time Oswald got into Whaley's cab. I will agree that Whaley's testimony was imprecise and confusing that's why he had to be interviewed an additional time.
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Another Jerry misrepresentation of what a witness said. Officer Baker did not say Oswald was wearing a brown jacket. Yes, you should look up Bakers testimony and post it. You also claimed on another post that what Baker described Oswald was wearing as CE-151. Post that too!
Officer Baker did not say Oswald was wearing a brown jacket
There are two versions to Baker's tale....In the first and original version of the tale ( Baker's affidavit on 11/22/63) He said that he stopped a man on either the third or fourth floor, and he described that man as in his thirties, with dark hair, and weighing about 165 pounds, and he was wearing a tan (khaki) or light brown jacket.
He did NOT recognize Lee Oswald as that man ....At the time Baker was writing that affidavit Lee Oswald was escorted past the place he was sitting, and yet he described an entirely different man in his affidavit.
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In Mrs. Bledsoe's case she new Oswald before he entered the Marsalis bus. It wouldn't have mattered if Oswald was wearing a Cinderella costume she would have recognized him anyway because not only had she rented him a room (very nice one compared to that closet at N. Beckley) but Oswald had made a very unfavorable impression on her.
In Whaley's case there's the trip manifest (if that's what it's called) that has Whaley taking a rider to 500 N. Beckley at 12:30 p. m. Whaley testified that he did not necessarily jot down the correct times but made estimates in 15 minute increments, or when he had the time to jot down the times, so 12:30 p. m. shouldn't be taken down as the exact time Oswald got into Whaley's cab. I will agree that Whaley's testimony was imprecise and confusing that's why he had to be interviewed an additional time.
I'm intimately acquainted with an old woman who suffers from Altzheimers ..... And I know that people who suffer from this terrible disease are not reliable.... Mrs Bledsoe should never have been used as a witness.... The fact that LBJ's cover up committee used her ( literally) speaks volumes about their desperation. They had no case against Lee Oswald, but they were desperate to create something to toss to the gullible pissants...
And some of those gullible pissants refuse to accept, and admit, that they've been duped.....
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Officer Baker did not say Oswald was wearing a brown jacket
There are two versions to Baker's tale....In the first and original version of the tale ( Baker's affidavit on 11/22/63) He said that he stopped a man on either the third or fourth floor, and he described that man as in his thirties, with dark hair, and weighing about 165 pounds, and he was wearing a tan (khaki) or light brown jacket.
He did NOT recognize Lee Oswald as that man ....At the time Baker was writing that affidavit Lee Oswald was escorted past the place he was sitting, and yet he described an entirely different man in his affidavit.
I'm glad you confirm that Baker never said that Oswald was wearing a brown jacket but this insistence on an exact description of someone who is unknown and seen only fleetingly is incomprehensible to me. It also strikes me as disingenuous considering that for so many years CTers (and I'm not saying you fall into this particular category, or you may, I don't know) insisted that Billy Lovelady was Lee Oswald when in fact their faces did not match, Oswald had stated he was in the lunch room during the shooting, and I believe Lovelady was about 4" shorter than Oswald.
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I'm intimately acquainted with an old woman who suffers from Altzheimers ..... And I know that people who suffer from this terrible disease are not reliable.... Mrs Bledsoe should never have been used as a witness.... The fact that LBJ's cover up committee used her ( literally) speaks volumes about their desperation. They had no case against Lee Oswald, but they were desperate to create something to toss to the gullible pissants...
And some of those gullible pissants refuse to accept, and admit, that they've been duped.....
You have gone off the rails. First off, you have no evidence that Mrs. Bledsoe suffered from any type of dementia or from Alzheimer Decease. What is becoming increasingly clear is that it's you who suffers from that not so rare mental disorder called Delusional Disorder.
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I'm glad you confirm that Baker never said that Oswald was wearing a brown jacket but this insistence on an exact description of someone who is unknown and seen only fleetingly is incomprehensible to me. It also strikes me as disingenuous considering that for so many years CTers (and I'm not saying you fall into this particular category, or you may, I don't know) insisted that Billy Lovelady was Lee Oswald when in fact their faces did not match, Oswald had stated he was in the lunch room during the shooting, and I believe Lovelady was about 4" shorter than Oswald.
I'm glad you confirm that Baker never said that Oswald was wearing a brown jacket
That's exactly right...Baker DID NOT identify Lee Oswald as the man who he saw wearing a light brown (Khaki or tan) jacket.
this insistence on an exact description of someone who is unknown and seen only fleetingly is incomprehensible to me.
Baker DESCRIBED the man and the location where he encountered that man.....
Baker said that the man was WALKING AWAY from the stairs on the dimly lit, third or fourth floor....( Lee was STANDING, and NOT walking away, in front of the Coke machine in the brightly lit second floor lunchroom.)
Baker said the man was in his thirties and weighed about 165 pounds, with dark hair and he was wearing a light brown or tan jacket.
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I'm glad you confirm that Baker never said that Oswald was wearing a brown jacket but this insistence on an exact description of someone who is unknown and seen only fleetingly is incomprehensible to me. It also strikes me as disingenuous considering that for so many years CTers (and I'm not saying you fall into this particular category, or you may, I don't know) insisted that Billy Lovelady was Lee Oswald when in fact their faces did not match, Oswald had stated he was in the lunch room during the shooting, and I believe Lovelady was about 4" shorter than Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.
Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either one?
Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the police station?
Mr. BAKER - He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.
Mr. DULLES - You saw Oswald later in the lineup or later
Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into the building and on up what we are discussing now.
(At this point Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker
Mr. DULLES - I didn't get clearly in mind, I am trying to check up, as to whether you saw Oswald maybe in the same costume later in the day. Did you see Oswald later in the day of November 22d?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. DULLES - Under what circumstances? Don't go into detail, I just want to tie up these two situations.
Mr. BAKER - As I was in the homicide office there writing this, giving this affidavit, I got hung in one of those little small offices back there, while the Secret Service took Mr. Oswald in there and questioned him and I couldn't get out by him while they were questioning him, and I did get to see him at that time.
Mr. DULLES - You saw him for a moment at that time?
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I'm glad you confirm that Baker never said that Oswald was wearing a brown jacket
Why R U glad? Baker said the man was in his thirties and weighed about 165 pounds, with dark hair and he was wearing a light brown or tan jacket. That does not=CE-150 but does = CE-151. What is not understood there? Baker merely called the long sleeve shirt worn openly a jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there....all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Warren Commission---Witnesses! Identify this damn shirt!
Witnesses----OK if you want... but I can't be sure :-\
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Why R U glad? Baker said the man was in his thirties and weighed about 165 pounds, with dark hair and he was wearing a light brown or tan jacket. That does not=CE-150 but does = CE-151. What is not understood there? Baker merely called the long sleeve shirt worn openly a jacket.Warren Commission---Witnesses! Identify this damn shirt!
Witnesses----OK if you want... but I can't be sure :-\
It's important to point out that there are TWO individuals involved ..... The man that Baker saw WALKING AWAY FROM THE STAIRS in the DIMLY LIT third or fourth floor was wearing a tan Jacket .... This man was about thirty years old and weighed about 165 pounds with dark hair ....
The Other man was Lee Oswald who Baker saw walking by at the time he was writing his affidavit....Baker DID NOT recognize or identify Lee as the man that he saw on either third or fourth floor....and he said that the Shirt that Lee was wearing in the police station did NOT look like the jacket that he had seen the third floor man wearing.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came ( back to me when I called out and commanded him to "come here". I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw (Lee Oswald) in the homicide office there.
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.....
Oscar is departed presently but apparently he thought there are three of me :D
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; the day he rented the room, they sign the register--they sign the register before I accept any money.
Mr. BALL. I'm talking about this "O. H. Lee" signature on this document; he signed that on that date?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he give you the money?
Mr. BALL. $8?
Mr. BALL. Did you ever know his true name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest. So I came from the restaurant, I guess 1 or 1:30, and these officers were there 1:30 or 2, something like that, anyway, it was after this assassination, and as I drove in, well, the officers were there and they told me that they was looking for this character and I told them I didn't think I had anyone by that name there but we went through the register carefully two or three times and there was no Oswald there and I had two new tenants, rather new tenants, so we had carried them around the house to show them and we was going to start in the new tenants' rooms and my husband was sitting in the living room and seen this picture flash on the television and he said, "Please go around that house and tell him it was this guy that lived in this room here"; and it was O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. That is the first time you learned his name was Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You knew him as O. H. Lee?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I knew him as O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. The first time you knew the man to be Lee Harvey Oswald that you had known as O. H. Lee?
Mrs. JOHNSON. That's right...??
Direct solid evidence that Oswald rented the room under an assumed name, an alias, O. H. Lee. Oswald signed the document, Mrs. Johnson was present when Oswald signed the document, Mr. and Mrs. Johnson both identified Oswald as O. H. Lee.
But Gladys Johnson did not bring the register she mentioned. She brought a slip of paper [with payment dates] that was obviously filled out en prompt tu and just had O H Lee written on it.
Re-read this thread and see where the Johnsons were 'inaccurate' concerning their story that day.
"Mr. BALL. Did you ever know his true name was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest.....I guess 1 or 1:30, and these officers were there 1:30 or 2"
That would have been impossible. That would have meant that Oswald's picture came on TV before he was ever arrested!
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Mr. BELIN. And can you state what happened?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they just came down there looking for--uh--Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say what his full name was?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. JOHNSON. I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
There was absolutely no reason at all why Oswald would just be carrying around the Beckley address in his pocket :-\
Furthermore there is no mention of any address information being listed in the inventory of items found on Oswald's person when he was arrested...
In fact there was an alleged bus transfer right in his front shirt pocket and it wasn't found [it was said] until Oswald was being booked.
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There was absolutely no reason at all why Oswald would just be carrying around the Beckley address in his pocket :-\
Furthermore there is no mention of any address information being listed in the inventory of items found on Oswald's person when he was arrested...
In fact there was an alleged bus transfer right in his front shirt pocket and it wasn't found [it was said] until Oswald was being booked.
There was absolutely no reason at all why Oswald would just be carrying around the Beckley address in his pocket :-\
That's simply a made up story....Because according to FBI agent James Hosty Lee Oswald himself provided the address of the rooming house during the first few minutes of the interrogation...and Captain Fritz confirmed it...(though he tried to lie about Lee giving them the rooming house address)
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There was absolutely no reason at all why Oswald would just be carrying around the Beckley address in his pocket :-\
That's simply a made up story....Because according to FBI agent James Hosty Lee Oswald himself provided the address of the rooming house during the first few minutes of the interrogation...and Captain Fritz confirmed it...(though he tried to lie about Lee giving them the rooming house address)
That was very much later in the day. The cops were all over the Beckley house just like Roberts as well as the Johnsons said.
Quote from: Oscar Navarro that began the thread.
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
No one has ever demonstrated what it "is solid evidence of" anyway.
So did he actually register as O H Lee or was he just registered as O H Lee? It seems now there is a difference.
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That was very much later in the day. The cops were all over the Beckley house just like Roberts as well as the Johnsons said.
Quote from: Oscar Navarro that began the thread.No one has ever demonstrated what it "is solid evidence of" anyway.
So did he actually register as O H Lee or was he just registered as O H Lee? It seems now there is a difference.
Mrs Robert's said that she opened Lee Oswald's room for the police when they came to the house looking for lee Oswald.....HUH? Lee Oswald was in police custody at 1:40 PM..... Soooo...... If Mrs Roberts is correct then the police were there at the rooming house before 1:40. Mrs Roberts said nothing about a search warrant ...she said that she allowed the police to enter Lee's room....
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Mrs Robert's said that she opened Lee Oswald's room for the police when they came to the house looking for lee Oswald.....HUH? Lee Oswald was in police custody at 1:40 PM..... Soooo...... If Mrs Roberts is correct then the police were there at the rooming house before 1:40. Mrs Roberts said nothing about a search warrant ...she said that she allowed the police to enter Lee's room....
Please. Stop posting nonsense. Stop misleading readers.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_2003.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldNorthBeckleyPotts.jpg)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
.....
Mr. BELIN. This would have been on November 22, 1963?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And can you state what happened?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they just came down there looking for--uh--Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say what his full name was?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. JOHNSON. I believe they did.
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
303
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right. What happened when the officers got there? They asked if Lee Harvey Oswald lived there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get home that day from your work?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little bit after.
Mr. BELIN. At the time you had gotten home, had you heard that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. I heard that before I went home.
......
Mr. BELIN. By the way, I might .ask you one question that we forgot. When the police first came on November 22, did they have a search warrant at all or not? Or don't you remember?
Mr. JOHNSON. Uh--they didn't have one at the time; but they called and got one before they went into his room.
Mr. BELIN. They called and got a search warrant before they went in his room?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. They called over my phone.
Mr. BELIN. Over your phone? You heard them call?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN All right. I believe that's all. Thank you very much, sir.
Johnson's wife, DPD detective Potts, and Bill Alexander testified similarly, except Potts said he and other police arrived at
3:00 pm, reasonable considering where he said he was and what he was doing before arriving at 1026 N. Beckley
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/potts.htm
.....
Mr. BALL. Before you went out there, did you get a search warrant?
Mr. POTTS. No; we didn't--we didn't get a search warrant at that time. We went to the location and talked to the people there.
Mr. BALL. That's Lt. E. L. Cunningham?
Mr. POTTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And who else?
Mr. POTTS. B. L. Senkel.
Mr. BALL. And yourself?
Mr. POTTS. And myself.
Mr. BALL. And you went out to where?
Mr. POTTS. 1026 North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. What happened when you got there?
Mr. POTTS. We got there and we talked to this Mrs.--I believe her name was Johnson.
Mr. BALL Mrs. A. C. Johnson?
Mr. POTTS. Mrs. Johnson and Mrs. Roberts.
Mr. BALL. Earlene Roberts?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; and they didn't know a Lee Harvey Oswald or an Alex Hidell either one and they couldn't--they just didn't have any idea who we were talking about, so the television--it is a rooming house, and there was a television----
Mr. BALL. Did you check their registration books?
Mr. POTTS. Yes, sir; we looked at the registration book--Senkel, I think, or Cunningham--well, we all looked through the registration book and there wasn't anyone by that name, and the television was on in the living room. There's an area there where the roomers sit, I guess it's the living quarters--it flashed Oswald's picture on there and one of the women, either Mrs. Roberts or Mrs. Johnson said, "That's the man that lives here. That's Mr. Lee---O.H. Lee." She said, "His room is right here right off of the living room."
Senkel or Cunningham, one of them, called the office and they said that Turner was en route with a search warrant and we waited there until 4:30 or 5 that afternoon. We got out there about 3.
Mr. BALL. You waited there in the home?
Mr. POTTS. We waited there in the living quarters.
Mr. BALL. You did not go into the small room that had been rented by Lee?
Mr. POTTS. No; we didn't--we didn't search the room at all until we got the warrant.
Mr. BALL. Who brought the warrant out?
Mr. POTTS. Judge David Johnston.
Mr. BALL. The judge issued it, but who brought it out?
197
Mr. POTTS. Well, F. M. Turner and H. M. Moore was with him, and Judge David Johnston was there, and also Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander.
Mr. BALL. Did David L. Johnston go too, the justice of the peace?
Mr. POTTS. Yes, the judge was there in person.
Mr. BALL. He was?
Mr. POTTS. Yes; and also Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander--they all came in the same car.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. POTTS. Well, after we showed Johnson the search warrant, I think it was Johnson, we went on in the room and continued to search the room, and we took everything in there that we could find.....
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_g.htm
.....
Mr. BALL. On the day of the 22d of November, were you home around 1 o'clock?
Mrs. JOHNSON. It must have been 1:30 or 2, something like that.
Mr. BALL. When you came home?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; after serving lunch.
Mr. BALL. Did Earlene Roberts say anything to you whether or not this man had returned?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; after these officers came in, well, then she began to tell them that he did come rushing in and she had gotten a phone call or had made one, anyway, she was on the phone--no, there was someone called her, that's what she said, said someone called her and she says, "Did you know that the President had been assassinated" and she says, "Why, no" and she says, "Well, it's on the television now" and she says, "I will run and turn it on" and she run in and turned this television on to get this information and this Oswald walked in hurriedly and she said, she said to him, "You seem to be in a hurry." She was the only one in that place. She said he didn't say a word but went on in his room and she said he changed his little zip-up coat, way I understand it, and just went right back out. He evidently got the gun; now, we don't know.
Mr. BALL. Did she tell the officers that?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yeah, she told the officers that.
Mr. BALL. When they came out there, did they have a search warrant?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, surely.
Mr. BALL. Did you permit them to search his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; they taken everything immediately out of his room.
Mr. BALL. Did you look in the room while they were searching it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I certainly did. .......
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm
.....
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know. But from the description of surroundings we could tell it was North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Up to that time you hadn't sent any men out to North Beckley, had you?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I sent them out there real soon and Officer Potts called me back from out there and talked to me on the telephone and gave me a report from out there on the telephone, and I am sure that that is the time that he told me about the way he was registered, and I asked Oswald about why he was registered under this other name.
Mr. BALL. What other name?
Mr. FRITZ. Of O. L. Lee.
..............
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Mrs Robert's said that she opened Lee Oswald's room for the police when they came to the house looking for lee Oswald.....HUH? Lee Oswald was in police custody at 1:40 PM..... Soooo...... If Mrs Roberts is correct then the police were there at the rooming house before 1:40. Mrs Roberts said nothing about a search warrant ...she said that she allowed the police to enter Lee's room....
Yeah...that is what she said---So what is the problem here?=======
Please. Stop posting nonsense. Stop misleading readers. Johnson's wife, DPD detective Potts, and Bill Alexander testified similarly, except Potts said he and other police arrived at 3:00 pm, reasonable considering where he said he was and what he was doing before arriving at 1026 N. Beckley.
Mrs Roberts stated that "Fritz's men" showed up first. Bill Alexander was not Fritz's man...he was the Asst D A.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d7/0a/c8/d70ac8f41a2d966257c232f05dee3133.jpg)
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Quote from: Oscar Navarro on Today at 12:05:00 AM
That Oswald registered at N. Beckley under O. H. Lee is "solid evidence".
What makes it 'solid evidence'? When you actually register, you sign a book that asks your name. And you register your name along with the list of other renters. Some registers might want more information [business..what city you are from..etc] I mean we're not talking about the Statler Hilton here..this was just an $8 a week flophouse right? Gladys Johnson was the owner.
Mrs Johnson mentioned nothing about an O H Lee.****
Mrs Johnson 'didn't bring the register'? If that was evidence and I think it should have been...to verify Oscars claim at least -so how does Oscar know for sure that Oswald registered as O H Lee?
Mrs Johnson did bring this receipt paper. Joe Ball was happy with that and entered it in the record as JohnsonGladys Exibit A......and just called it the "Rooming House Register" H-XX
Apparently, what Mrs Johnson forgot to bring along [what she called the register] just wasn't important after all.
Well I've looked around for that register as an exhibit ...it looks like I need some help. Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ where are you guys? I want to see the name of OH Lee written in a real register along with the names of the other renters or else it is not official that Oswald registered as OH Lee and is therefore not evidence.
This is what Joe Ball entered in. It doesn't look much like a weekly tabulated receipt book at all. It looks fake. It looks like it was the weeks that Oswald stayed there all filled out at once and somebody just wrote OH Lee on it [5 letters that couldn't be all that hard to forge] And just what in hell made this scrap of paper all that top secret ???
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
Earlene Roberts the housekeeper did testify that Oswald registered as O H Lee. In fact she repeated it about 10 times ...
Earlene Roberts was an elderly lady with admitted hearing difficulty. It is possible she became confused. She 'thought' his name was O H Lee.
If someone repeats something often enough it becomes truth [whether it is or not]
That solid evidence just might have vaporized right there.
Mrs Johnson said that renters started leaving soon after Oswald did. I wonder why? Who were they?
****CORRECTION--- I meant to express that Mrs Johnson did not mention the name O H Lee in that particular statement. However as usual..the WR defenders will find any wart, booger, or dingleberry to pick at. When they error...it is of course, entirely excusable.
Well I've looked around for that register as an exhibit ...it looks like I need some help. Mytton.. Chapman.. Howsley.. Smith ..Organ where are you guys? I want to see the name of OH Lee written in a real register along with the names of the other renters or else it is not official that Oswald registered as OH Lee and is therefore not evidence.
Hugh Aynesworth writes in his book "November 22, 1963 Witness to History" on pages 50 - 51:
Earlene Roberts, the housekeeper, greeted me at the door of the rooming house at 1026 North Beckley. Peering from behind thick eyeglasses, Mrs. Roberts told me that I was the first reporter on the scene. The police and federal agents had just left after thoroughly searching the place.
She said she knew Mr. Oswald as Mr. Lee, a quiet loner who'd rented a room for eight dollars a week since October 14. She even offered to give me the rooming house register, a loose-leaf notebook in which Oswald had printed the name O.H. Lee. Like a fool, I declined.
So a "real register," in the sense that you are describing, (I assume a bound book made for that particular purpose) that you are looking for, is apparently not what they used at this particular rooming house. Only a loose-leaf notebook. By the way, Hugh Aynesworth is still around. If you really want to know more details of what exactly he remembers that the book looked like, look him up and contact him. He is very friendly and really does try to help answer questions from both sides of the fence.
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That was very much later in the day. The cops were all over the Beckley house just like Roberts as well as the Johnsons said.
Quote from: Oscar Navarro that began the thread.No one has ever demonstrated what it "is solid evidence of" anyway.
So did he actually register as O H Lee or was he just registered as O H Lee? It seems now there is a difference.
That was very much later in the day.
The ONE AND ONLY interrogation that Hosty attended began at 3:15..... But It's possible that Lee told some other cop that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley, prior to the 1st official interrogation.
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Mrs Roberts stated that "Fritz's men" showed up first. Bill Alexander was not Fritz's man...he was the Asst D A.
Alexander was everywhere that day ...at the TSBD....at the Tippit scene...at the Oswald house --Why was he all over the place?
Bill Alexander--Mr [self designated?] cop on the spot. He did not file a report...he did not submit an affidavit...he did not testify before the Commission.
However...Henry Wade did testify and he didn't witness jack crap!
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Alexander was everywhere that day ...at the TSBD....at the Tippit scene...at the Oswald house --Why was he all over the place?
Bill Alexander--Mr [self designated?] cop on the spot. He did not file a report...he did not submit an affidavit...he did not testify before the Commission.
However...Henry Wade did testify and he didn't witness jack crap!
Alexander was Henry Wades puppet.... Wade knew the details of the plot, but he wanted to be sure about what actually was happening, thus Alexander kept him abreast of events.
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Alexander was Henry Wades puppet.... Wade knew the details of the plot, but he wanted to be sure about what actually was happening, thus Alexander kept him abreast of events.
When Lee managed to escape from the TSBD where Wade and company thought he would be shot down, it sent Wade into a panic..... Thus he invoked plan "B" ( to have a angry cop shoot the patsy (LHO) in the Texas theater..... Bill Alexander kept Wade apprised of events....
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Alexander was Henry Wades puppet....
And Henry Wade was Hoover's puppet.
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And Henry Wade was Hoover's puppet.
Yes indeed, Henry Wade was one of Hoover's "EXTRA" Special agents. (Hoover's private cabal who worshiped the insane lunatic)
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If anybody else blatantly lied about the evidence like you do, I would point it out. You're just mad that I can post there and you cannot.
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Bledsoe saw a hole in the elbow part of the brown shirt sleeve?
then Oswald must Have been wearing a jacket overtop the brown shirt and had the jacket sleeves rolled up above the elbow = absurd
Or he was carrying the jacket Folded over his arm or similar way just carrying it with him ?
Can anyone show some statement from Bledsoe to resolve this dilemma?
Otherwise Bledsoe saw some other Oswald or she has mistaken some other bus passenger for Oswald like McWatters the bus driver did.
Does anyone think that someone desiring to avoid FBI surveillance would choose an alias exactly his real name in reverse order?
Or carry a fake alias ID with him after shooting JFK with a rifle ordered by mail using that fake name?
Or ordered rifle by mail order writing the fake name in his own handwriting style?
Or having rifle sent to a P.O. Box addressed to his REAL name too?
Or Drops his fake ID inside a wallet at the scene where he just shot a police officer?
Removes shells one at a time from
His revolver while still at the scene and knowing he is being observed by witnesses?
Keeps the revolver used to shoot Tippit all the way to a theater and keeps weapon on his person even when it’s obvious police are about to enter the theater?
Supposedly had plan to have shootout With police sometime after shooting Tippit , thus a reason to keep revolver, yet does not take Tippits revolver for added firepower?
Takes the bus transfer ticket from the pocket of shirt he changed from to the pocket Of the shirt he put on at the boarding room even though the ticket has expired at 1:00 pm?
a paper bus transfer ticket touched by McWatters bare fingers and also touched by Oswalds bare fingers upon receiving it and then touching it again to place in the pocket of his other shirt
Yet no fingerprints found on the ticket
Loose shells in shirt pocket and ticket apparently able to not fall out and ticket not bent while struggling with police both inside and outside of theater
And said items not “discovered” in the shirt pocket until several hours later
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Someone in authority obviously knew he was there - a police car honked while he was inside at 1pm on Nov 22nd 1963.
And the driver of that police car never came forward even though the WC were searching everywhere for the driver. Could it have been Tippit?
The sole source, of "honking police car" influencing your belief and your opinion of "the driver of that police car never came forward" was so flawed that her influence on you results in a waste of your time and of readers' time. So much distracting, unreliable influences have tainted so many minds made up under the influence of the assertions of impaired, dishonest, or merely attention craving witnesses. And then there were also the carnival barker, Penn Jones type personalities injecting themselves, turning their distractions into lifetime gigs.
Cache link to McAdams site (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1cCL1t5rdIMJ:https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/robertse.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
......Mr. BALL. Did a police car pass the house there and honked?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When was that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He came in the house.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the house ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. When he came in the house and went to his room, you know how the sidewalk runs?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Right direct in front of that door-there was a police car stopped and honked. I had worked for some policemen and sometimes they come by and tell me something that maybe their wives would want me to know, and I thought it was them, and I just glanced out and saw the number, and I said, "Oh, that's not their car," for I knew their car.
Mr. BALL. You mean, it was not the car of the policemen you knew?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It wasn't the police car I knew, because their number was 170 and it wasn't 170 and I ignored it.
Mr. BALL. And who was in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know--I didn't pay any attention to it after I noticed it wasn't them-I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Where was it parked ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It was parked in front of the house.
Mr. BALL. At 1026 North Beckley?
Mrs. ROBERTS. And then they just eased on--the way it is-it was the third house off of Zangs and they just went on around the corner that way.
Mr. BALL. Went around what corner?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Went around the corner off of Beckley on Zangs.
Mr. BALL. Going which way--toward town or away from town?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Toward town......
Cache link to McAdams site (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3phg6EFhB2QJ:https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_g.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
...Mr. BALL. Has she been working for you for that period of time?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No, sir; I let Mrs. Roberts go a time or two, then I would hire her back.
Mr. BALL. there some reason why you let her go?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, she would just get to being disagreeable with renters and I don't know, she has a lot of handicaps. She has an overweight problem and she has some habits that some people have to understand to tolerate.
298
Mr. BALL. What are they?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Talking just sitting down and making up tales, you know, have you ever seen people like that? Just have a creative mind, there's nothing to it, and just make up and keep talking until she just makes a lie out of it. Listen, I'm telling you the truth and this isn't to go any further, understand that? You have to know these things because you are going to question this lady. I will tell you, she's just as intelligent--I think she is a person that doesn't mean to do that but she just does it automatically. It seems as though that she, oh, I don't know, wants to be attractive or something at times. I just don't know; I don't understand it myself. I only wish I did.
Mr. BALL. She was working for you in October and November while Oswald was a renter with you?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, she was. This Saturday night will be 3 weeks she left.
Mr. BALL. She quit 3 weeks ago?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I didn't know she was going.
Mr. BALL. Where did she go?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I do not know. I called her sister to try to find out. I don't think she knows.
Mr. BALL. Who is her sister?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Mrs. Bertha Cheek. ....
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Someone in authority obviously knew he was there - a police car honked while he was inside at 1pm on Nov 22nd 1963.
And the driver of that police car never came forward even though the WC were searching everywhere for the driver. Could it have been Tippit?
Yeah the person who just assassinated the president was collected by a marked police car whos "signal" was to pull up in broad daylight and honk the horn.
FFS.
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Bledsoe saw a hole in the elbow part of the brown shirt sleeve?
then Oswald must Have been wearing a jacket overtop the brown shirt and had the jacket sleeves rolled up above the elbow = absurd
Or he was carrying the jacket Folded over his arm or similar way just carrying it with him ?
Can anyone show some statement from Bledsoe to resolve this dilemma?
Otherwise Bledsoe saw some other Oswald or she has mistaken some other bus passenger for Oswald like McWatters the bus driver did.
Does anyone think that someone desiring to avoid FBI surveillance would choose an alias exactly his real name in reverse order?
Or carry a fake alias ID with him after shooting JFK with a rifle ordered by mail using that fake name?
Or ordered rifle by mail order writing the fake name in his own handwriting style?
Or having rifle sent to a P.O. Box addressed to his REAL name too?
Or Drops his fake ID inside a wallet at the scene where he just shot a police officer?
Removes shells one at a time from
His revolver while still at the scene and knowing he is being observed by witnesses?
Keeps the revolver used to shoot Tippit all the way to a theater and keeps weapon on his person even when it’s obvious police are about to enter the theater?
Supposedly had plan to have shootout With police sometime after shooting Tippit , thus a reason to keep revolver, yet does not take Tippits revolver for added firepower?
Takes the bus transfer ticket from the pocket of shirt he changed from to the pocket Of the shirt he put on at the boarding room even though the ticket has expired at 1:00 pm?
a paper bus transfer ticket touched by McWatters bare fingers and also touched by Oswalds bare fingers upon receiving it and then touching it again to place in the pocket of his other shirt
Yet no fingerprints found on the ticket
Loose shells in shirt pocket and ticket apparently able to not fall out and ticket not bent while struggling with police both inside and outside of theater
And said items not “discovered” in the shirt pocket until several hours later
Takes the bus transfer ticket from the pocket of shirt he changed from to the pocket Of the shirt he put on at the boarding room even though the ticket has expired at 1:00 pm?
You're backing into a very good point here , Zeon. If Lee received a transfer when he debarked from the bus he probably would have had in the shirt pock of the shirt that he took off him his room at 1:00 O'clock. And there would have been no reason to remove it and take it with him , since it was no longer valid.
This would explain why the transfer is in pristine condition ..... If he had had the transfer in his pocket at the theater it surely would have gotten rumpled by the rough handling the police used in dragging Lee out of the theater.
a paper bus transfer ticket touched by McWatters bare fingers and also touched by Oswalds bare fingers upon receiving it and then touching it again to place in the pocket of his other shirt Yet no fingerprints found on the ticket
I'm not aware that the transfer was ever checked for finger prints.
Loose shells in shirt pocket and ticket apparently able to not fall out and ticket not bent while struggling with police both inside and outside of theater
I believe that the live 38 cartridges were allegedly found in Lee's LEFT front trouser pocket..... Which probably means they were placed there while Lee was being "searched" at the theater.... Lee wouldn't have put the shells in his LEFT pocket.... Because he was right handed, and it's very difficult to remove small object from the LEFT pocket if the person is right handed. If Lee had wanted those shells in a pocket with easy access, he would have had them in the RIGHT pocket.
And said items not “discovered” in the shirt pocket until several hours later
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Someone in authority obviously knew he was there - a police car honked while he was inside at 1pm on Nov 22nd 1963.
And the driver of that police car never came forward even though the WC were searching everywhere for the driver. Could it have been Tippit?
Are you sure that a police car was in front of the rooming house and the driver honked while Lee was inside changing his clothes?? Weren't 95% of the police cars being used at the TSBD or other emergengies ??....
I doubt that the police car story is true.....
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Mr. STERN - Was he asked his residence address in Dallas and did he give it?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; he furnished the address of 1026 North Beckley.
Mr. STERN - Did he say that he was living there under another name, or was another name and particularly the name O. H. Lee mentioned at all in this connection?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - He was asked why he was using the name Lee at this address, and he attempted to pass it off by stating that the landlord was an old lady, and his first name was Lee and she just had gotten it in her head that he was Mr. Lee. He never did explain about the initials O. H.
Remember?.....
Mr. BALL. How many tenants did you have in October last year?
Mrs. JOHNSON. You know, I'm sorry I didn't bring my register. I couldn't tell you exactly; I imagine I had about 10 or 12.
She didn't know because I believe Mrs Roberts did all the renting anyway and there never was a "register".
It was just pay for the week and that was it. This was the register----
It looks like it was just the weeks that Oswald stayed there all filled out at once and somebody just wrote OH Lee on it ..5 letters that couldn't be all that hard to forge [and not a very good forgery at that] And just what in hell made this [COPY] of a scrap of paper all that Top Secret ?
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
RICK___BRIAN!!!! Take it please to another thread!
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Of all things to make up--Why would Ms Roberts say that?
Have you had any experience with an elderly lady who is senile or has Alzhiemers? In the early stages they will make up stuff and swear that it is true.
I suspect that Mrs Roberts made stuff up for no reason. She may have imagined that she saw and heard a police car at the curb outside....
There in lies the problem..... We just don't know that she saw a police car.... But I like your theory that it was Captain Westbrook. Do you know where Westbrook was at 1:00 PM???
In the early stages they will make up stuff and swear that it is true.
Sounds like you
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Oswald shot Kennedy and Tippit. He almost shot Walker. He almost killed himself (domage!) And PrayerDude was someone off the street to get a better shot of Kennedy's motorcade going by. Can't you tell he was holding up a camera to make his 'shot'? This is only an opinion. And if you want NBC to provide the hard copy of the film, then be polite, and not have an agenda.
Oh, Lordy. How long has has this con been goin' on ??
Oswald shot Kennedy and Tippit
Accidentally. He's a patsy, remember.
He almost shot Walker
Exactly. As a patsy, that's what he was going for.
But according to these brainiacs he was a bad shot.
He proved them right when he hit Kennedy twice despite trying to miss.
Same @Tippit, the little prick tried to fire warning shots but missed.
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But according to these brainiacs he was a bad shot.
He proved them right when he hit Kennedy twice despite trying to miss.
And this brainiac loves circular arguments.
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Testers found that the little prick could have been @Tippit on time.
And that was based solely on brisk walking. You lot avoid the fact that several quicker methods of human locomotion (trotting, jogging, running, etc) were available to the guy who had already clearly demonstrated that he was in an awful hurry to get to the movies.
According to several witnesses Tippit was shot at 1:06 ( Markham 1:06, Benavides a few minutes after 1:00, Bowley arrived at 1:10, ) Lee's landlady, Mre Roberts said that Lee was at the Rooming house at 1:04..... He could not have been at 10th & Patton at the same time(1:04) that Tippit was tailing the man who shot him.
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According to several witnesses Tippit was shot at 1:06 ( Markham 1:06, Benavides a few minutes after 1:00, Bowley arrived at 1:10, ) Lee's landlady, Mre Roberts said that Lee was at the Rooming house at 1:04..... He could not have been at 10th & Patton at the same time(1:04) that Tippit was tailing the man who shot him.
So Markham & Roberts suddenly become the Dynamic Duo after being treated at all other times by you lot as a pair of dingbats.
Testers approx 11 minutes + Roberts approx 1:04 = poor dumb cop getting in the way of warning shots approx 1:15 = Mystery Guest #2
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Testers found that the little prick could have been @Tippit on time.
And that was based solely on brisk walking. You lot avoid the fact that several quicker methods of human locomotion (trotting, jogging, running, etc) were available to the guy who had already clearly demonstrated that he was in an awful hurry to get to the movies.
The theater was in a different direction but a smart guy like Chapman would know this right?
" Testers" :D
"locomotion" :D
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(https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/17/60/28/90/receiv15.jpg)
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(https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/17/60/28/90/receiv20.jpg)
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Can the search warrant for 1026 N Beckley be located somewhere?
Because I have never seen it and can't seem to find it. But there apparently was one---
Bugliosi describes one p 134 --- https://books.google.com/books?id=7jrKTKDhvfkC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA135&dq=search+warrant+for+oswald%27s+room&source=bl&ots=WntK8ER6ix&sig=ACfU3U2cv5Ms4x4jm3oaYslvoHduGXaUjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFhuenmvjnAhUCMawKHeLiAe0Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=search%20warrant%20for%20oswald's%20room&f=false
& p 135
https://books.google.com/books?id=7jrKTKDhvfkC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=search+warrant+for+oswald%27s+room&source=bl&ots=WntK8ER6ix&sig=ACfU3U2cv5Ms4x4jm3oaYslvoHduGXaUjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFhuenmvjnAhUCMawKHeLiAe0Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=search%20warrant%20for%20oswald's%20room&f=false
The warrant for Lee's arrest [after they had already arrested him]...
What did the cops show the owners at the house?
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339480/m1/1/med_res/)
"A search warrant pronto"
One question never answered truthfully anywhere after all this time...How did the cops even know about 1026 N Beckley?
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The warrant for Lee's arrest [after they had already arrested him]...
What a joke. They had no warrant for his arrest or even probable cause for a murder arrest when they actually arrested him so they dummied one up after he was already in custody.
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What a joke. They had no warrant for his arrest or even probable cause for a murder arrest when they actually arrested him so they dummied one up after he was already in custody.
Bulls eye!!......This document is just another piece of evidence that the DPD had Lee Oswald pegged as their patsy.
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Can the search warrant for 1026 N Beckley be located somewhere?
Because I have never seen it and can't seem to find it. But there apparently was one---
Bugliosi describes one p 134 --- https://books.google.com/books?id=7jrKTKDhvfkC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA135&dq=search+warrant+for+oswald%27s+room&source=bl&ots=WntK8ER6ix&sig=ACfU3U2cv5Ms4x4jm3oaYslvoHduGXaUjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFhuenmvjnAhUCMawKHeLiAe0Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=search%20warrant%20for%20oswald's%20room&f=false
& p 135
https://books.google.com/books?id=7jrKTKDhvfkC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=search+warrant+for+oswald%27s+room&source=bl&ots=WntK8ER6ix&sig=ACfU3U2cv5Ms4x4jm3oaYslvoHduGXaUjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFhuenmvjnAhUCMawKHeLiAe0Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=search%20warrant%20for%20oswald's%20room&f=false
The warrant for Lee's arrest [after they had already arrested him]...
What did the cops show the owners at the house?
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339480/m1/1/med_res/)
"A search warrant pronto"
One question never answered truthfully anywhere after all this time...How did the cops even know about 1026 N Beckley?
This document is very interesting in the fact that it obviously been created AFTER Lee was in the custody of the police ..... WHY would they create such an obviously false document??? Why Richardson, Texas.....?? Captain Fritz was a DALLAS police officer.....
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This document is very interesting in the fact that it obviously been created AFTER Lee was in the custody of the police ..... WHY would they create such an obviously false document??? Why Richardson, Texas.....?? Captain Fritz was a DALLAS police officer.....
An officer cannot search your dwelling or car when you're arrested elsewhere, such as on the street or at the mall. To justify a search as incident to an arrest, a spatial relationship must exist between the arrest and the search. The general rule is that the police may search the arrested person and the area within that person’s immediate control. For example, an arresting officer can often search not only a suspect’s clothes, but also his or her wallet or purse. (Chimel v. California, U.S. Sup. Ct. 1969; see Cellphone Searches After Arrest.)
Did anyone read the pages I linked from RH [Reclaiming History]? According to the timing of some warrant procurement process [and Bugliosi relates a 4:20 PM time] ...by then the frigging search had supposedly already taken place at 1026 N Beckeley!!
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember.
Mr. BELIN.....How soon after you got home did the police come--approximately?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'd say within 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. 30 minutes after you got home the Police came.
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.---------------
Mr. BELIN. What did they say?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they wanted to see the records, and we showed them--the register, I mean--and we showed them the register. And then they searched his room.
The 'register' that was never produced to this day :-\
Any Dallas County judge can sign a Dallas County warrant. RH states that Alexander called Johnson. Where was Johnson? Who knows?
Apparently Bugliosi did not proof read the smelly dead fish in his book very well.
What say you...Bugliosi fans?
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What was Oswald's room number? Was it 0 [zero]? Who would stay in room zero? Was it O [as in Oswald]?
Or was it 13...17?
The officers could not perform a search until Justice of the Peace, David L, Johnston, Det. R. M. Turner, Det. H. M. Moore, and Assistant District Attorney, Bill Alexander, arrived with the search warrant at approximately 5 PM, enabling the officers to initiate their formal inquiry. Detective Potts described the scene in this way: “Well, the room was off–as you walk into the house, the living area, the room was right there at the front door, and it was off to the left of the living room. It was a real small room. It was, oh, I don’t suppose it was 6 to 8 feet wide, and maybe 10 feet long. It was a real small room. It had a half bed in there and back in the back there it had a shelf—some shelves and stuff that he had some food and stuff back there in.”
Is this what A C Johnson testified?
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Bulls eye!!......This document is just another piece of evidence that the DPD had Lee Oswald pegged as their patsy.
But how could they have known this plan would work? What if Oswald was photographed on the street when the shots were fired? How could they have guaranteed he wouldn't have an alibi?
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But how could they have known this plan would work? What if Oswald was photographed on the street when the shots were fired? How could they have guaranteed he wouldn't have an alibi?
What if Oswald was photographed on the street when the shots were fired?
Huh?.... The warrant was issued AFTER Lee was in custody. They KNEW where Lee had been after he left the TSBD. They knew that nobody had taken any photos of Lee Oswald at the time the shots were fired (1:06)
How could they have guaranteed he wouldn't have an alibi?
As a matter of fact Lee DID have an alibi..... Mrs Roberts said that she saw him standing on the sidewalk in front of the rooming house at 1:04 ...Which is the same time that JD Tippit was driving along behind the man he was tailing. Lee could not have been in front of the rooming house and at 10th & Patton at the same time.
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One question never answered truthfully anywhere after all this time...How did the cops even know about 1026 N Beckley?
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh- after he was -uh- apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
OK UH so...Oswald had a slip of paper [in his pocket?] that UH said "I live at 1026 N Beckley".
As ludicrous as that sounds...there was no such document produced in evidence...No mention of such an item was testified to by any of the arresting officers...and nothing about such an item was asked about in anyone's search or in [Oswald's interrogation] notes.
How did the cops know about 1026 N Beckley? Anyone?
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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
OK UH so...Oswald had a slip of paper [in his pocket?] that UH said "I live at 1026 N Beckley".
As ludicrous as that sounds...there was no such document produced in evidence...No mention of such an item was testified to by any of the arresting officers...and nothing about such an item was asked about in anyone's search or in [Oswald's interrogation] notes.
How did the cops know about 1026 N Beckley? Anyone?
Lee told them. He was interrogated at about 2:15 and he told the cop that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley.... Then when he was officially interrogated at 3:15 he told Captain Fritz that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley....
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Lee told them. He was interrogated at about 2:15 and he told the cop that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley.... Then when he was officially interrogated at 3:15 he told Captain Fritz that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley....
But according to the Johnsons [read their statements] ..the cops were there long before then.
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Post search...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29104#relPageId=3&tab=page
Everything all typed out real nice....the next day probably.
Besides--Why would Oswald voluntarily tell where he stayed? I really don't think he did.
On record as stating "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out."
1026 N Beckley is not mentioned in Fritz's handwritten notes that I could see....Nope---don't see it :-\
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But according to the Johnsons [read their statements] ..the cops were there long before then.
Yes, You're right, Jerry.... But I 've always dismissed the Johnson's estimate of the time that they arrived at the rooming house.... I think they were incorrect in their estimate of the time.
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Post search...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29104#relPageId=3&tab=page
Everything all typed out real nice....the next day probably.
Besides--Why would Oswald voluntarily tell where he stayed? I really don't think he did.
On record as stating "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out."
1026 N Beckley is not mentioned in Fritz's handwritten notes that I could see....Nope---don't see it :-\
Jerry, Do you have Hosty's book Assignment: Oswald ? Look in the photo section following page 152....... You'll see Hosty's hand scribbled notes for the first interrogation session which started at 3:15, 11 / 22 /63 The very fist scribbled entry is;... quote....1026 N. Beckley room ....unquote
So the very first thing Hosty entered in those notes, was Lee Oswald's rooming house address......
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Mr.BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
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Mr.BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Of course Mr Johnson was making stuff up...(or perhaps some cop told him that BS) Because Lee Oswald himself told the cops that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley.....
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Of course Mr Johnson was making stuff up...(or perhaps some cop told him that BS) Because Lee Oswald himself told the cops that he had a room at 1026 N. Beckley.....
Freeman just said 'Besides--Why would Oswald voluntarily tell where he stayed?I really don't think he did.
On record as stating "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out."
1026 N Beckley is not mentioned in Fritz's handwritten notes that I could see....Nope---don't see it
I didn't see you disagree with that... yet here you are, yet again accusing others of being liars.
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Freeman just said 'Besides--Why would Oswald voluntarily tell where he stayed?I really don't think he did.
On record as stating "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out."
1026 N Beckley is not mentioned in Fritz's handwritten notes that I could see....Nope---don't see it
I didn't see you disagree with that, yet here you are, once again accusing others of being liars.
Well to be candid with you....I don't believe that Lee made that smart ass retort...... "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out." That wise ass retort sounds like something the conspirators made up to make it look like Lee wasn't cooperating.
Virtually ALL of those who heard Lee's responses during the interrogations said that he was polite and cooperative.
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Well to be candid with you....I don't believe that Lee made that smart ass retort...... "You guys are smart...you have all the answers...you figure it out." That wise ass retort sounds like something the conspirators made up to make it look like Lee wasn't cooperating.
Virtually ALL of those who heard Lee's responses during the interrogations said that he was polite and cooperative.
Well part of the time, I heard... like whenever he was asked everyday questions like 'where do you live'. But not so friendly & forthcoming when asked questions related to the day's events, apparently.
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Well part of the time, I heard... like whenever he was asked everyday questions like 'where do you live'. But not so friendly & forthcoming when asked questions related to the day's events, apparently.
The ONLY time that Lee wasn't cooperative was after Hosty asked him if he'd been to Mexico City..... That visit to MC was something that Lee Oswald didn't want to discuss....and J. Edgar Hoover also didn't want the Mexico City episode discussed. Hosty got himself in extremely hot water with Hoover because he had mentioned the MC episode during the interrogation of Lee Oswald..
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I didn't remember the quote exactly-----
The Interrogation of Oswald
by: Weston, William
The Academic JFK Assassination Site: www.kenrahn.com/JFK/JFK.html
There were a number of key issues about which Oswald could have given essential information, but chose not to. Such issues included his whereabouts at the time Tippit was killed, the location of the place where he bought or obtained his pistol, the reason he had for bringing it into the movie theater, and his purpose for going to Mexico City. To illustrate his refusal to cooperate, I will focus on police inquiries concerning the name Hidell, which was found on three identification cards and on two mail box rental applications.
As he was being driven from the theater to the police station, he was asked what his name was. He did not answer, but sat in silence. Sgt. Hill asked Bentley to check to see if he had a wallet. Bentley reached down into his left hip pocket and pulled one out. He looked in the wallet and found a card that had the name "Lee Oswald" on it. He pulled out another card and it had the name "Alek Hidell." Since the suspect was not talking, one of the detectives said, "I guess we are going to have to wait until we get to the station to find out who he actually is."(17)
When he was brought into the station, one of the first to interview him was Gus F. Rose. He asked for the suspect's name, and the man said, "Hidell." As Rose examined his identification cards, he saw one card that had the name "Alek Hidell" and another that had "Lee Oswald." Which one was correct? he asked.
The suspect replied, "You're the cop. You figure it out."(18)
http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/weston.html
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Well part of the time, I heard... like whenever he was asked everyday questions like 'where do you live'. But not so friendly & forthcoming when asked questions related to the day's events, apparently.
Maybe because they were accusing him of spending the day murdering people.
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The suspicious, dark complected, dark haired, Cuban or Puerto Rican ...white guy ???
At the Tippit shooting------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=75&tab=page
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Maybe because they were accusing him of spending the day murdering people.
Yes, that's right John...... But I'd also suggest that It's very difficult to answer questions when you know nothing about the subject. And personally I believe that Lee had no idea that JFK had been murdered.....nor did he know any of the details about the murder of Tippit.....
He said " I've been accused of shooting a policeman...I know no more than that"
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They came as soon as Tippit was shot.
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Malcolm-Archive-Feb-2018720.jpg
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Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh- after he was -uh- apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
How did the cops know about 1026 N Beckley? Anyone?
I believe that Johnson was on the level. A cop told him that. What cop?
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A Mr H L Lee was living at that house....
CD 206, p. 140------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=145&tab=page
CD 86, pp. 559-565------
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10489#relPageId=587&tab=page
I guess no one else considers this a very strange coincidence?
3610 N Beckley was/is still not a legitimate residential address--------
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f75/19/60/91/68/beckle14.png)
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I guess no one else considers this a very strange coincidence?
3610 N Beckley was/is still not a legitimate residential address--------
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f75/19/60/91/68/beckle14.png)
On November 1st, Lee was not living at the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley...... So he must have used the address of a friend....
I believe that Lee went to that Civil Liberty meeting with Mike Paine..... Where was Mike Paine living on November 1st???
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On November 1st, Lee was not living at the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley...... So he must have used the address of a friend....
According to his timeline-Oswald moved into his 1026 N Beckley room on Oct 14 and stayed until Nov 21.
http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/chrono.htm
October 14, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to Dallas, where he later registers as O.H. Lee at a new rooming house on North Beckley.,
where he later registers as O.H. Lee at a new rooming house on North Beckley.
Later, Ruth mentions to a group of neighbors that...
LHO is having trouble finding work. One of the ladies, Linnie Mae Randle, mentioned a
possible opening at the Texas School Book Depository; and when LHO calls the Paine home that evening,
Ruth informs him of the opening.
October 15, 1963: LHO applies at the TSBD and is hired.
If Ruth Paine took Oswald to the rooming house on Beckley and he got the room...then obviously she knew where he lived.
In her testimony [one of the most verbose of all the testimony pages]...she was asked nothing about this.
At least I couldn't find it.
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According to his timeline-Oswald moved into his 1026 N Beckley room on Oct 14 and stayed until Nov 21.
http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/chrono.htm
If Ruth Paine took Oswald to the rooming house on Beckley and he got the room...then obviously she knew where he lived.
In her testimony [one of the most verbose of all the testimony pages]...she was asked nothing about this.
At least I couldn't find it.
Yes...Good Samaritan Ruthie ..... probbaly took Lee to he rooming house primarily to learn where Lee was living, so she could report that information to the FBI....
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What I am referring to as another weird coincidence is this H L Lee roomer stayed at the same time Oswald was there.
H L LEE/O H Lee?---And who stayed in what room?
Add to that coincidence the H L [Herbert] Lee statement that he moved out on NOV 1-- the same exact day that LHO opened that P O Box 6225.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=145&tab=page
I believe the 3610 N Beckley address was entered intentionally by LHO to detract from the 1026 rooming house....no idea why.
MEMORANDUM May 15, 1968 TO: JIM GARRISON, District Attorney FROM: WILLIAM R. BOXLEY, Investigator According to DR1 a recent document from the National Archives lists the following occupants as living at 1326 N. Beckley at the time of the assassination: BUDDY JOE PALMER C. C. LEHMANN ROY SAMUEL CLEGHORN FLOYD DEGRAFFENREID or DeGRAFFENRED HUGH SLOUGH JACK CODY GEORGE GIBBONEY DONALD GREEN • JOHN CARTER JAMES WATSON HERBERT LEE (It is noteworthy that 0. H. LEE does not appear on documents i nor have Dallas researchers been able to locate any of the above names at that address in 1963 or 1964 Directories. Apparently no effort was made by the FBI or other law enforcement personnel to interview any of OSWALD's co-roomers). Present research does show a BOBBY PALMER, City policeman in . 1963 at 4531 Columbia Street (already a key apartment area) and I a JAMES WATSON, a. City detective. •-•
1326 N Beckley must have been in error.
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What I am referring to as another weird coincidence is this H L Lee roomer stayed at the same time Oswald was there.
H L LEE/O H Lee?---And who stayed in what room?
Add to that coincidence the H L [Herbert] Lee statement that he moved out on NOV 1-- the same exact day that LHO opened that P O Box 6225.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=145&tab=page
I believe the 3610 N Beckley address was entered intentionally by LHO to detract from the 1026 rooming house....no idea why.
1326 N Beckley must have been in error.
Based on the FBI memo of the interview of H L Lee ...I believe that there's no connection between Lee Oswald and Herbert Lee..... Unless Lee Oswald knew that there was a man who used the name HL Lee living at the rooming house. If Lee Oswald knew that, then he might have sought a room at the rooming house and registered as OH Lee simply to create confusion for anybody who might visit the rooming house while trying to trace him. There's no doubt in my mind that Lee was a intel agent and he thought of himself as a budding Herb Philbrick. I'm also convinced that Lee Oswald was very clever and a quick witted fellow. We know from his tests when he joined the MC that he was well above the average intelligence.
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.....I believe that there's no connection between Lee Oswald and Herbert Lee.
Probably not but the confusion of having Mr Lee and Mr Lee as borders could have probably confused the landlords and their help :-\
Oswald probably said nothing when they might have told him oh we have another Mr Lee here.
Yes Ruth was very very helpful. Oswald got a room and the very next day he got a job....thanks to Ruthie ;)
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Probably not but the confusion of having Mr Lee and Mr Lee as borders could have probably confused the landlords and their help :-\
Oswald probably said nothing when they might have told him oh we have another Mr Lee here.
Yes Ruth was very very helpful. Oswald got a room and the very next day he got a job....thanks to Ruthie ;)
"the confusion of having Mr Lee and Mr Lee as borders could have probably confused" anybody who came snooping around looking for Lee....
This would be a typical intel trick..... And Lee Oswald knew many of the tricky deceptions.
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According to his timeline-Oswald moved into his 1026 N Beckley room on Oct 14 and stayed until Nov 21.
http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/chrono.htm
If Ruth Paine took Oswald to the rooming house on Beckley and he got the room...then obviously she knew where he lived.
In her testimony [one of the most verbose of all the testimony pages]...she was asked nothing about this.
At least I couldn't find it.
The timeline says Ruth drove him to Dallas-that is all. She dropped LHO off near the employment office, not at the rooming house.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=40&tab=page
He picked up his bag from Bledsoes at some point:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=417&tab=page
And rented the room at North Beckley
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44#relPageId=301&tab=page
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=446&tab=page
Do you have the ebook of Bugliosi? Very handy for this type of info and searchable.
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The timeline says Ruth drove him to Dallas-that is all. She dropped LHO off near the employment office, not at the rooming house.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=40&tab=page
not at the rooming house.
So she says...or didn't say.
Mr. JENNER - Was there an occasion in this early period that you drove him all the way into Dallas?
Mrs. PAINE - I can't recall ever driving him all the way into Dallas.
Mr. JENNER - At any time?
Mrs. PAINE - We drove, except to the Oak Cliff Station for this driver training test.
Mr. JENNER - That is the only occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; that is the only one I recall. Can you refresh my memory. I can't think of any other.
Mr. JENNER - You are clear that you drove him from your home to the bus terminal in Irving?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - And either you left immediately Or waited to see him board the bus, but it is your definite recollection you did not drive him to the Dallas downtown area on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - Oh, I did once drive him to the Dallas downtown area, because I recall where he got out. Now why I was going--yes, I think I may know why I was going.
Mr. JENNER - Fix the time first.
Mrs. PAINE - I do recall now driving him into downtown Dallas because I was already going and it was probably Monday, the 14th of October.
Mr. JENNER - This is the day before his employment began with the Texas School Book Depository?
Mrs. PAINE - It would have been 2 days before, the day before he applied. I have several recollections but which day they attach to is not quite as clear.
I recall taking him to the bus. I recall picking him up at the bus. I recall going in and dropping him off at a corner of Ross Avenue and something else, which was near the employment office.
Mrs Paine was there---- selective...evasive...and if not--downright lying.
Mrs Paine wants Mr Jenner to 'remember for her' ::)
Mr. JENNER - In downtown Dallas?
Mrs. PAINE - Near the employment office station. I was on my way to get a key fixed on my Russian typewriter which is what was taking me downtown. I hadn't been thinking--I at no time made a purposeful trip just to take him to downtown Dallas, but I was going and he went along and I am pretty sure that was a Monday and he got out at that corner and Marina was with me and we went on to get this typewriter fixed either to pick it up or to leave it. I am quite certain it was the 12th, Saturday, that I picked him up at the station.
Mr. JENNER - At the bus terminal?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. And I am pretty certain that it was the 7th I took him to the bus station. I recall it being already noon, and I thought he might well have started looking for a job earlier that day.
Mr. JENNER - When next did you hear from Mr. Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE - After the 7th. Probably on the 12th when he called again to ask if he could come out for the weekend.
Did she not converse with Oswald about the school books job...The NEXT DAY? Did he not at least call from this seclusion on N Beckley?
The chronology of the testimony is all over the place. She next hears from Oswald after Oct 14 on Oct 7th?
A better link for that entire chapter of Ruthie's yarn---- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r2.htm
The whole tale and nothing but a tale.
Mrs. PAINE - She wanted to be certain it was all right for him to come out, you know that it wasn't too much of an imposition on me. We got into discussing his efforts to find a job. Then Monday, the 14th as best as I recall, was the first time we talked about him, more than to say it was too bad he didn't find something. This is the--
Mr. JENNER - During the course of the week was there discussion between you and Marina respecting Lee Oswald's attempt at employment?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Now, there came an occasion, did there not, that weekend or the following weekend at which there was a discussion at least by you with some neighbors with respect to efforts to obtain employment for Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE - As best I can reconstruct it this was, while having coffee at my immediate neighbors....
The 15th ...the day Oswald went to the TSBD to hire in was on a Tuesday. But the opening wasn't discussed until following weekend :-\ OK
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The timeline says Ruth drove him to Dallas-that is all. She dropped LHO off near the employment office, not at the rooming house.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=40&tab=page
He picked up his bag from Bledsoes at some point:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=417&tab=page
And rented the room at North Beckley
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44#relPageId=301&tab=page
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=446&tab=page
Do you have the ebook of Bugliosi? Very handy for this type of info and searchable.
The FBI displayed the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was dragged from the theater to Mary Mrs Bledsoe. They allegedly showed her that shirt to see if she recognized it as the shirt that Lee was wearing on the bus. But in reality they showed her the shirt so she would be able to identify it when she testified before LBJ's cover up committee.
We can verify that Mrs Bledsoe did not see Lee wearing that shirt on the Bus because she said that all of the buttons had been ripped off....That happened at the theater when the cops used the shirt to drag Lee from the theater. And what's more....Mrs Bledsoe testified that they were the first bus through the intersection and she saw the barricade tapes had been stretch across the street and she said she saw a suspect being led away ....and they looked up at the building to where the shooting had occurred..... Obviously Mrs Bledsoe was NOT on Mc Watter's bus.....
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The FBI displayed the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was dragged from the theater to Mary Mrs Bledsoe. They allegedly showed her that shirt to see if she recognized it as the shirt that Lee was wearing on the bus. But in reality they showed her the shirt so she would be able to identify it when she testified before LBJ's cover up committee.
We can verify that Mrs Bledsoe did not see Lee wearing that shirt on the Bus because she said that all of the buttons had been ripped off....That happened at the theater when the cops used the shirt to drag Lee from the theater. And what's more....Mrs Bledsoe testified that they were the first bus through the intersection and she saw the barricade tapes had been stretch across the street and she said she saw a suspect being led away ....and they looked up at the building to where the shooting had occurred.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I says, "Because I am not going to rent to you any more."
Mr. BALL - Not going to what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Not going to rent to you any more. He said, "Give me back my money." Now, $2.
I said, "Well, I don't have it."
So, he left Saturday morning and, in the meantime, I think his wife was going to have a baby----
Mr. BALL - How did you know that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I found---I read it in the papers.
[started to say 'she found out later which she did...she read it in the papers]
Mr. BALL - Did you see him wait for the bus?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I just saw him go out the door. Didn't pay any attention.
[For someone who didn't 'pay any attention and she said that several times Bledsoe certainly offered up a lot of key details...but then Ball had asked----]
Mr. BALL - But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I forget what I have to say.
Mr. BALL - When did you make those notes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - What day did I make them?
Miss DOUTHIT - When Mr. Sorrels and I were talking about her going to Washington, he made the suggestion that she put all the things down on paper because she might forget something, and I said, "Mary, you put everything on a piece of paper so that you can remember it and you won't forget anything, you know, what happened," and that's when she started making notes.
Mr. BALL - You have made the notes in the last week?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT - At my suggestion and Mr. Sorrels.
Why would they have Bledsoe go to Washington for her deposition? Anyway, she made it in Dallas.
[The bus]
Mr. BALL - When Oswald got on, you then weren't facing him, were you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; but I saw that it was him.
Mr. BALL - How close did he pass to you as he boarded the bus?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Just in front of me. Just like this [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Just a matter of a foot or two?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - When he got on the bus, did he say anything to the motorman?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, the motorman? I think--I don't know. I don't know.
Mr. BALL - Where did he sit?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He sat about halfway back down.
Mr. BALL - On what side?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - On the same side I was on.
Mr. BALL - Same side
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did he look at you as he went by? Did he look at you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know. I didn't look at him. That is---I was just---he looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted.
Mr. BALL - Did he have a hat on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt.
Mr. BALL - And unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.
Mr. BALL - What did he have on underneath that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know.
Mr. BALL - Do you know the color of any undershirt he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Notice the color of his pants?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, they were gray, and they were all ragged in here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Around where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At the seam.
Mr. BALL - At the waist?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At the waist, uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - Was the shirt tucked beneath the belt in his pants, or outside the belt?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; he had it in.
Mr. BALL - Had it tucked in?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No: it was tucked in.
Mr. BALL - So, that the belt of the pants was outside the shirt?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; uh-huh.
Why did Bledsoe take it upon herself to call police?
Mr. BALL - When did you first notify the police that you believe you'd seen Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - When I got home, first thing I did I went next door and told them the President had been shot, and he said, "Why, he has got killed." Well, I turned on the radio--television--and we heard ambulances and going around and there was a little boy came in that room in the back and he turned it on, and we listened and hear about the President, only one I was interested in, so, he went on back to work and they kept talking about this boy Oswald and had on a brown shirt, and all of a sudden, well, I declare, I believe that this was this boy, and his name was Oswald---that is---give me his right name, you know, and so, about an hour my son came home, and I told him and he immediately called the police and told them, because we wanted to do all we could, and so, I went down the next night. He took me down, and I made a statement to them, what kind of---Secret Service man or something down there.
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At the police station.
Mr. BALL - Uh-huh. Now, did you ever see Oswald in a lineup?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Never did see Oswald after he was arrested?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Not after he got off the bus; no.
Mr. BALL - But, you looked at the pictures of Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Showed you the pictures of Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - The man down at the police station, he had a picture of him with a gun, and said, "Do you recognize him?"
And I said, "Yes; it is Oswald." That is the one that I remember him.
Mr. BALL - Do you know the name of the man who showed you the picture of the man with the gun?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I am so bad about names.
Mr. BALL - Was there one man or more than one man?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, about a dozen.
Mr. BALL - Oh, a dozen men?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - There sure was a lot of them. Two Secret Service men, and two to do this, and oh, I had interviewed about 9 or 10 or 12, plenty of them.
Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
Mr. BALL - I know. What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I can recognize it.
Mr. BALL - Recognize it as what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, sir; see there?
Mr. BALL - Yes. You tell me what do you see here? What permits you to recognize it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I recognize---first thing I notice the elbow is out and then I saw---when the man brought it out and let me see it?
Yup...Bledsoe viewed the line-up alright---one torn shirt. SA Sorrells and her attny provided Bledsoe's deposition.
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The 15th ...the day Oswald went to the TSBD to hire in was on a Tuesday. But the opening wasn't discussed until following weekend :-\ OK
The question is what was he doing on an unknown Saturday morning in October:
Mrs. OSWALD. I remember that there was one weekend when he didn't come on a Friday, but said that he would come on a Saturday. And he said that that was because he wanted to visit another place supposedly there was another job open, more interesting work.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say where this other job was that he thought was more interesting?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that this was also based upon an ad in a newspaper, and that it was connected--that it was related to photography. And he went there in the morning and then--on a Saturday--and then came to us, still during the morning.
Mr. RANKIN. He came home, then, on Saturday, some time before noon of that day?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, before noon.
If there was a conspiracy, this is the only unaccounted for time period before the assassination.
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Why would they have Bledsoe go to Washington for her deposition? Anyway, she made it in Dallas.
[The bus]Why did Bledsoe take it upon herself to call police?Yup...Bledsoe viewed the line-up alright---one torn shirt. SA Sorrells and her attny provided Bledsoe's deposition.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.
The buttons were torn from Lee's shirt when the police dragged him from the Texas Theater. So obviously Mrs Bledsoe saw the shirt AFTER Lee was dragged from the theater. She did not see Lee wearing that shirt on Mc Watter's bus. In her testimony Mrs Bledsoe said that she saw the barricade tapes at the corner of Houston & Elm when the bus she was on passed through that intersection. That barricade tape was erected at about 1:00 pm..... Cecil Mc Watters bus was already in Oakcliff at 1:00 pm.
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Document? What document? The classified Top Secret scrap that was obviously produced post Action?
Johnson (Gladys J.) Exhibit A
Why not?
She wanted to sell it
Again- Whatever happened to that register?
I don't know. Maybe she sold it to a collector.
Exhibit A was just a copy. The scrap I mentioned. Notice that the original had apparently been altered.
[Something] OUT
Checked out...moved out maybe.
Selling a supposed register book [evidence] would have been a crime [at least in the real world]
Also...a would have been buyer could have reproduced it--making a fortune at auction.
That obviously didn't happen.
Room 0. Is that 0 as in ziltch...zero...nada. Or is it O as in Oscar?
The room number was not discussed by the half-hearted 'investigators'.
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0148b.gif)
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And are they claiming that Oswald wrote “O.H.Lee” on this document?
Also, why is it marked “Top Secret”?
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The FBI displayed the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was dragged from the theater to Mary Mrs Bledsoe. They allegedly showed her that shirt to see if she recognized it as the shirt that Lee was wearing on the bus. But in reality they showed her the shirt so she would be able to identify it when she testified before LBJ's cover up committee.
We can verify that Mrs Bledsoe did not see Lee wearing that shirt on the Bus because she said that all of the buttons had been ripped off....That happened at the theater when the cops used the shirt to drag Lee from the theater. And what's more....Mrs Bledsoe testified that they were the first bus through the intersection and she saw the barricade tapes had been stretch across the street and she said she saw a suspect being led away ....and they looked up at the building to where the shooting had occurred..... Obviously Mrs Bledsoe was NOT on Mc Watter's bus.....
WALT PLEASE DO NOT COPY the following images in a reply if you post one. I have to pay for excess bandwith , more likely if all of the following images load twice in this same thread page!
Mrs. Mary Germany Bledsoe was an obviously flawed witness, even without my original research. Forgive me for reminding readers of the following, if nothing else, it proves the FBI and SS "investigations" were incomplete, putting it mildly. I accept I have trouble playing by the "rules," which predictably are, if Mark Lane, Penn Jones, Shirley Martin, Harold, Sylvia, or even David Lifton, did not publish "things" like the following, in the first two decades, weight (influence) is reduced to that of a feather.
It seems to matter not one wit if a particular detail attributed to any of them, even stands the test of time. You (not directed particularly at Walt) it just doesn't matter. Almost everyone knows what impressed them in books they read long ago, and of course, what Oliver Stone and finally, author James Douglass confirmed.
Even Bugliosi or Dave Perry seem to shape discussion and influence analysis much more than "late to the party," verifiable facts.
The proof that the FBI and SS "investigations" were incomplete, starts with this.:
From Jim Marrs's "Crossfire":
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BledsoeUncleJewellRDmatthewsCrossfire.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BledsoeRDmatthewsAynesworthHudkins.jpg)
My recent discovery :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanSon1919marriage.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BledsoeUncleWedToRDMatthewAuntAdelaideCrop.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census.jpg)
Mary Bledsoe's father.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnWarrenGermany1938.jpg)
Mary Bledsoe's father's "kid" brother :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MaryBledsoeUncleJRgermanyObit1958.jpg)
He happened to have the same parents as Mary Bledsoe's father....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanySonJewell1958.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanSon1919AdelaideSenterSSapp.jpg)
The two children in the 1930 US Census image above were first cousins. RD Matthews mother's sister, Adelaide Senter, was for a time, Mary Bledsoe's aunt because she had married Bledsoe's uncle, Jewell Germany. Jewell's son, Jewell, Jr. had two first cousins, RD Matthews and Mary Bledsoe !
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CousinJRgermanyJrObitCrop.jpg)
Mary Bledsoe's husband, James Euliss Bledsoe, worked for the railroad and was away from home often. A family genealogy notation states that James divorced Mary Bledsoe because he strongly suspected Porter Bledsoe was not actually his son. Source:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9482-mary-bledsoe/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-236543
Not all that long before Mary Bledsoe's father, Dr. John Germany died in 1938, he had married his former son-in-law James E. Bledsoe's first cousin, who was younger than his daughter Mary.
Dr. John Germany and his brother Jewell, Sr's sister, America Webb, is decribed in Jewell, Sr's 1958 obit, displayed above. America Webb's husband, Joe Webb, died in 1926, and his widow America was still living in 1958. Joe Webb and TSBD's OV Campbell's wife, Clarice Marie Webb, just happened to be closely related.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MaryBledsoeAuntAmeriaEllenWebbObit052760.jpg)
OV Campbell's first wife died in 1982. Shortly thereafter he married a girl almost young enough to be his grand-daughter.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/TSBDcampbellWifeWebb1982obit.jpg)
The common ancestors of OV Campbell's first wife and Marie Bledsoe's uncle, Joe Webb, from the 1850 U.S. Census.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MaryBledsoeAuntAmeriaGermanyWebbOVcampbellWifeWebb1850Census.jpg)
If Jack Ruby had not ended the need for a criminal trial, preceded by an actual criminal investigation by investigators of both the prosecution and the defense, at least some of the above "coincidences" surely would have surface long before the last few years. If RD Matthews was involved both with Ruby and the Assassination of JFK, inserting Mary Bledsoe as a key WC witness certainly did not hurt in establishing a different narrative.
http://jfkforum.com/2018/03/
MARCH 8, 2018
“Meet” the first cousin of both Mary Bledsoe and RD Matthews
.....R.D. Matthews was a ghost of Las Vegas past, but even as an octogenarian he was capable of stepping from the shadows and haunting the present.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6382620
Grace Senter Freeman
BIRTH 3 Feb 1900
DEATH 28 Apr 2002 (aged 102)
BURIAL
SparThe Lithping Larry Grayson "Oooh Shut That Door" doppleganger Hillcrest Memorial Park
Dallas, Dallas County, Texas, USA
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20316-rd-matthews-from-steve-thomas/
………
A recently deceased friend, Dallas Attorney Spider Bynum lived across the street
from R.D. Matthews’ mother and more or less took care of her in her late years
and kept in touch with R.D. , always by telephone. He flew into Dallas on a
private airplane at 2:10 a.m. the following day after his mother’s death, met
with the funeral director at Love Field, completed his business and flew back
to Las Vegas a few hours later.
Spider tried on many occasions to ascertain what R.D. was so frightened of in
Dallas, but he refused to talk about it. I do know Spider, who did a lot of
legal work for the Campisi family and offered to accompany Joe ( Joseph) Campisi
to Washington when he was called to test ify before the House Select Committee
on Assassinations . Joe told him it was not necessary, but if R.D. Matthews was
called, he sure might need him and may never see Dallas again.
Spider swore to the day he died, R.D. Matthews was somehow involved in Kennedy’s
assassination, I guess we will never know now.
Funny how evil people live so damn long—————- “
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WALT PLEASE DO NOT COPY the following images in a reply if you post one. I have to pay for excess bandwith , more likely if all of the following images load twice in this same thread page!
I have to pay for excess bandwith
You should have to------ :-\
However, I am almost willing to pay you to remove 80% of your off topic posts all over this forum.
That would provide billions of megaterrabits right there.
What in your previous post pertains to "O H Lee and the Beckley house"?
Have a good day.
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You should have to------ :-\
However, I am almost willing to pay you to remove 80% of your off topic posts all over this forum.
That would provide billions of megaterrabits right there.
What in your previous post pertains to "O H Lee and the Beckley house"?
Have a good day.
I second your opinion, Jerry.... I don't know why Mr Scully singled me out in requesting that I shouldn't copy his post.....I rarely read Scully's posts, which IMO are 99% BS......
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And are they claiming that Oswald wrote “O.H.Lee” on this document?
It seems obvious that he didn't. If Oswald was going to use an alias...why not Alek Hidell?
Supposedly, he had an ID in case one was asked for. He failed to have an O. H. Lee ID it seems.
Also, why is it marked “Top Secret”?
For the reason explained above. Any idiot can see that this is not how receipts are kept.
That it was filled out all at once when it appeared certain that Oswald would probably not be back.
That it had been altered for some reason. Also Top Secret makes things sound really important.