JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on December 05, 2018, 05:13:12 AM
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Dougherty's Dallas Police affidavit 11-22-63 (https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/e7daf6e008c631126a441b4f9cb17152.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544576751&Signature=LcvaJbKV5mKT%2BjTmfiTDBZqCdM8%3D)
The exhibits reproduced in the Warren Report were often difficult if not nearly impossible to read.
Basically, Dougherty stated there...
He was working on the sixth floor. He claimed to have gone back to work after lunch at 12:45 but then contradicted himself, stating he had already gone back to work and had gone to the fifth floor to get stock by the time he heard the shot which in reality happened at 12:32. He then stated he went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, another employee, if he heard anything. Eddie responded that he heard three shots. Jack then claimed to have returned to work on the sixth floor, seeing everyone but Oswald. He claimed to have seen Oswald on the sixth floor shortly before noon but not after the shots were fired.
But then there is the Dougherty FBI affidavit on 11-22-63....
http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/jack-edwin-dougherty/jack-edwin-dougherty-fbi-statement-nov-22-1963-2/
` click to enlarge`
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/bbc2f14f2a5a46877431dfe636669294.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544583560&Signature=IM3H2O2DZEjVPgC9%2FY1svqI1hiU%3D)
Compare that to his recorded FBI statement made on 12-18-63 April '64....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/Witnesses/Item%2016.pdf
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/2b093bfbe2c964cc78e3bea0f4a3d9c4.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544583688&Signature=eReVEkVq5TLgWPuzAmnO7merBuo%3D)
This is a recently released memorandum from WC asst counsel attny Melvin Eisenberg to chief counsel J Lee Rankin page one
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/29d1ad435f75a4b8e8e6aebe46241b3e.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544584382&Signature=bluY%2BgWoK0uTYUSrUyQjGfpaRvM%3D)
It would seem that maybe Mr Dougherty may have suffered from what is called today as PTSD. Except one thing... he never went into combat.
The rest of that memo [about 4-5 pages] can be found here....
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7460478
It is a very interesting read. The Warren lawyer was "suspicious of Doughtery".
Basically, Roy Truly furnished information to the FBI agents that Dougherty was a good employee but that he was mentally retarded and was easily confused. He became apparently quite disoriented after the assassination. That was suspicious? This is from Jack Doughtery's testimony before the commission......
Mr. BALL - Where did you go to school?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Sunset High School.
Mr. BALL - You went through Sunset High School? [graduate?]
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What year did you get out of high school? About?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, 1937. [@ age 14?]
Mr. BALL - 1937?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What kind of work did you do after that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, of course, a year or so, you might say--just work in grocery stores until I was 19 and volunteered for the Armed Services in October--October 24, 1942.
Mr. BALL - How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact. [he remembered that exactly!]
Mr. BALL - And you were discharged from the Service, then, after the War, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did you do during the service---during your period in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you might say just about a little bit of everything, from guard duty to---
Mr. BALL - Did you have any active service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, no--I volunteered for active service, but they said you couldn't very well volunteer--you have to be drafted, so they said, they told me at the time.
Doughtery made no sense and asst counsel Ball made no sense. Ball didn't even establish what had happened to four years of JDs life after he left high school in 1937! However that might be answered with the picture below.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.
Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.
Mr. BALL - You didn't ever go outside the country to Europe?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, no.
Mr. BALL - Or to the South Seas?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You stayed in this country all the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Now, did you ever have any difficulty with your speech?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You never had any?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever have any difficulty in the Army with any medical treatment or anything of that sort?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - None at all?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
JD lied there but I believe it was due to embarrassment mostly. In the army during WW2..if someone volunteered for combat they sent them to combat unless there is some reason that would put people in battle at grave personal risk.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after you got out of the Army?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, jobs were pretty scarce about the time I got out of the service, so I just went from place to place and applied and put my application in, so I started over here at the Texas School Book Depository and put my application in there and I got it through the Suburban Employment Agency, and I been working there ever since.
Mr. BALL - And that was when--in 1940, was it, you started to work at the Texas School Book Depository? [Why did Ball say 1940?]
Mr. DOUGHERTY - September 17, 1940.
Mr. BALL - 1940 what?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see, I have been with them 11 years--that would be---
Mr. BALL - That would be 1952, wouldn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes--that's 1952.
Mr. BALL - 1952?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; that's right, to be exact.
Mr. BALL - What did you do between the time you got out of the service and 1952?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't do anything to be frank with you.
Mr. BALL - You didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You didn't work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, no.
Mr. BALL - You stayed at home?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you live with your father and mother?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Have you ever been married?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - And you still live with your father and mother?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes. [Jack's father took him to the testimony at the courthouse]
In the picture below is that really Jack Dougherty in uniform? [upper far right- you have to use the slider] and the picture is captioned '1940'. That's BS.
But didn't he actually graduate in 1941 from Dallas Sunset? Makes more sense.
(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/15/59/98545915/photos/undefined/DoughertyPossibly-SunsetHS-SophomoreCollage+LONG-FRONTAL-1941+JDCompanyD-1940+Decker&DoughertyInFrontOfTSBD+Skaggs16DoughertyHeadCrop---PENTAPTYCH.png)
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If the "Jack Dougherty" at Sunset High in 1941 is the same person as Mr Roy Truly's "great big husky fellow", then my money would be on this guy!
(https://i.imgur.com/qqFd0Py.jpg)
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The links that I provided in the opening topic are no longer available for some reason.
The only ones that I can find now are the Warren Report testimony and the undated hand written statement to the police....
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339130/
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Dougherty's Dallas Police affidavit 11-22-63 (https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/e7daf6e008c631126a441b4f9cb17152.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544576751&Signature=LcvaJbKV5mKT%2BjTmfiTDBZqCdM8%3D)
The exhibits reproduced in the Warren Report were often difficult if not nearly impossible to read.
Basically, Dougherty stated there...
He was working on the sixth floor. He claimed to have gone back to work after lunch at 12:45 but then contradicted himself, stating he had already gone back to work and had gone to the fifth floor to get stock by the time he heard the shot which in reality happened at 12:32. He then stated he went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, another employee, if he heard anything. Eddie responded that he heard three shots. Jack then claimed to have returned to work on the sixth floor, seeing everyone but Oswald. He claimed to have seen Oswald on the sixth floor shortly before noon but not after the shots were fired.
But then there is the Dougherty FBI affidavit on 11-22-63....
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/bbc2f14f2a5a46877431dfe636669294.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544583560&Signature=IM3H2O2DZEjVPgC9%2FY1svqI1hiU%3D)
Compare that to his recorded FBI statement made on 12-18-63....
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/2b093bfbe2c964cc78e3bea0f4a3d9c4.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544583688&Signature=eReVEkVq5TLgWPuzAmnO7merBuo%3D)
This is a recently released memorandum from WC asst counsel attny Melvin Eisenberg to chief counsel J Lee Rankin page one
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/29d1ad435f75a4b8e8e6aebe46241b3e.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1544584382&Signature=bluY%2BgWoK0uTYUSrUyQjGfpaRvM%3D)
It would seem that maybe Mr Dougherty may have suffered from what is called today as PTSD. Except one thing... he never went into combat.
The rest of that memo [about 4-5 pages] can be found here....
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7460478
It is a very interesting read. The Warren lawyer was "suspicious of Doughtery".
Basically, Roy Truly furnished information to the FBI agents that Dougherty was a good employee but that he was mentally retarded and was easily confused. He became apparently quite disoriented after the assassination. That was suspicious? This is from Jack Doughtery's testimony before the commission...... Doughtery made no sense and asst counsel Ball made no sense. Ball didn't even establish what had happened to four years of JDs life after he left high school in 1937! However that might be answered with the picture below.
JD lied there but I believe it was due to embarrassment mostly. In the army during WW2..if someone volunteered for combat they sent them to combat unless there is some reason that would put people in battle at grave personal risk.
In the picture below is that really Jack Dougherty in uniform? [upper far right- you have to use the slider] and the picture is captioned '1940'. That's BS.
But didn't he actually graduate in 1941 from Dallas Sunset? Makes more sense.
(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/15/59/98545915/photos/undefined/DoughertyPossibly-SunsetHS-SophomoreCollage+LONG-FRONTAL-1941+JDCompanyD-1940+Decker&DoughertyInFrontOfTSBD+Skaggs16DoughertyHeadCrop---PENTAPTYCH.png)
The photo of Dougherty ( wearing neck tie) looks to be the same man who was on the sixth floor at the time the rifle was being examined ....(I believe Duncan posted that photo about a year ago)
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in american yearbooks is it supposed to show also the names of the students?
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in american yearbooks is it supposed to show also the names of the students?
The class portraits do but candid photos usually don't ;)
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Both this forum and another major one seem lately to be besieged by newer or less informed posters who tend to
be predisposed to reinventing the wheel. This tendency is aggravated, in my experience, from suspicions incompatible
with making allowance for the notion that Dougherty's medical record was not deemed to be the business of the public,
and similarly regarded records were usually only made public resulting from FOIA litigation.
Will the following have the opposite effect of influencing readers and posters to be less suspicious of Dougherty?
Would fakery not have required Truly and R.C. Dougherty and his son, Jack to have conspired, or did Truly recently
fall of the back of a turnip truck, i.e., a clueless pawn in the Doughertys' deceptions ?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490&relPageId=781&search=mr._truly%20and%20retarded
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/DoughertyConfusedTrulyToSS.jpg)
It seems the protection of medical records has since been codified into law. Those not charged with a crime should
be afforded confidentiality and those under investigation should be unknown until charged and this is the legal premise
for secrecy of grand jury deliberations. Our system once valued the standard that it is preferable to endure a thousand
guilty not held accountable vs. unjust conviction and punishment of one innocent person.
Dougherty did not testify he had graduated from high school.
Dougherty's father, Redfern, described his son's challenges to investigators.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136&relPageId=638&search=jack_and%20father
and
Also present during the interview with JACK EDWIN DOUGHERTY was his father, R. C. DOUGHERTY, who advised his son had received a medical discharge from the U. S. Army and indicated his son had considerable difficulty in coordinating his mental facilities with his speech.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0320b.htm
Immediately before employment at TSBD, Dougherty was employed by Goodwill Ind.
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/DoughertyGoodwiLL1950.png)
His military service was brief, considering the U.S. was engaged in World War in two major fronts at
the time of his discharge.
BTW, I spoke directly to a child of Dougherty's sister, five years ago. I called that individual to suggest the Dougherty
family donate a photo of uncle Jack to the Sixth Floor Museum, in consideration of the impending 50th anniversary of the
JFK Assassination. The reaction to my suggestion was "no" and the stated reason was the upset to the family in reaction
to negative opinions and suspicions about Jack posted on the internet. I was asked how the recipient of my call could be
certain I was not one of the interenet posters influencing such upset to the Doigherty family. I replied I was not one of those
posters, merely a researcher prioritizing verifiable facts and because I was asking nothing for myself since I had no connection
with the SFM and had not asked anything about Uncle Jack after I introduced myself as a researcher who had independently
determined I was calling and speaking with one of Jack's most immediate surviving relations since Jack had remained under his
mother's roof his entire life and had fathered no known children.
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Some thoughts on Dougherty.
This point can be applied to others who offer specific times in testimonies/statements. Do not take specific times stated literally. They are on many occasions estimations and should be overriden by known time stamps. Eg Dougherty says he went back to work at 12.45. This was the normal return to work time however Dougherty claimed he went back to work just before the shots....we know that they occurred around 15 minutes earlier....hence the relevant sequence is he went back to work then the shots occurred.
He was the closest known witness by foot to the SN.
He was the last known witness to be present on the 6th floor before the shots.
According to the official story he had to have moved the west elevator off the 5th floor prior to the arrival of Baker and Truly.
According to his testimony, his position at the time of the shots put him in position to notice anyone taking the stairs immediately after the shots.
He was not part of the flooring crew but was taken to City Hall along with the others who were on instruction from Fritz to Senkel. He was to gather all employees who had been on the 6th floor that day. Two were no longer in the building, Oswald and Givens. Two others were, Frazier and Norman, but somehow avoided being taken for statements with the others.
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Some thoughts on Dougherty.
This point can be applied to others who offer specific times in testimonies/statements. Do not take specific times stated literally. They are on many occasions estimations and should be overriden by known time stamps. Eg Dougherty says he went back to work at 12.45. This was the normal return to work time however Dougherty claimed he went back to work just before the shots....we know that they occurred around 15 minutes earlier....hence the relevant sequence is he went back to work then the shots occurred.
He was the closest known witness by foot to the SN.
He was the last known witness to be present on the 6th floor before the shots.
According to the official story he had to have moved the west elevator off the 5th floor prior to the arrival of Baker and Truly.
According to his testimony, his position at the time of the shots put him in position to notice anyone taking the stairs immediately after the shots.
He was not part of the flooring crew but was taken to City Hall along with the others who were on instruction from Fritz to Senkel. He was to gather all employees who had been on the 6th floor that day. Two were no longer in the building, Oswald and Givens. Two others were, Frazier and Norman, but somehow avoided being taken for statements with the others.
Colin, I believe that you've omitted one of the most important attributes of Jack Dougherty..... In that, he was the senior member of Roy Truly's crew. Thus he certainly commanded a position from which he could intimidate the junior members..... And he was a big and strong, good ol white boy. IOW... Bonnie Ray Williams would have jumped at Dougherty's command...
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FWIW, (probably not much) I posted a 1950 Dallas city directory image indicating Jack Dougherty
was employed at that time at Goodwill Industries.
Larry Crafard was questioned about the name Dalton. Crafard replied that Mr. Dalton was with Goodwill Industries
and Crafard believed Ruby purchased a suit for Crafard at Goodwill. Crafard said he believed Ruby was in contact
with Dalton in the course of Ruby's twist-board promotion.:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/crafard.htm
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyEmployeeCrafardTestimonyDaltonGoodwill.jpg)
Cecil O. Dalton seems a match for "Mr. Dalton". Cecil had an interesting personal history.
https://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/Texas/Twelight-M-Dalton_5hcmvv
Twelight M Dalton in the 1940 Census
VIEW ACTUAL RECORD
Or find other results in the 1940 census for Twelight M Dalton
Age 26, born abt 1914
Birthplace Texas
Gender Female
Race White
Home in 1940 3714 Wycliff Dallas, Dallas, Texas
Household Members Age
Head
Cecilo Dalton 32
Wife Twelight M Dalton 26
Lodger Iris Neal 23
https://obits.dallasnews.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?n=iris-dalton&pid=150495398
Iris Dalton was born September 10, 1916 in Arlington, Texas to Jack and Jane Neal. She passed away on April 18, 2011 in Grapevine, Texas. She was a lifelong resident of Dallas. She is preceded in death by her Husband: C.O. Dalton, Nephew: Richard Dalton and Sister Twilight Dalton. She is survived by her Great Niece and Nephew Kim Dalton and Chris Dalton. A Memorial Service will be held on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 12:00 p.m. at the Abbey Chapel at Restland Funeral Home. Under the Direction of Metrocrest Funeral Home in Carrollton, Texas.
Update: The above obit displays an error. Iris Dalton's sister Twilight, first wife of Iris's husband, Cecil, had died in 1961.:
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyCrafardGoodwillCecilOdaltonFirstWifeDeathCert.jpg)
Two gentlemen of the same surname were Dallas Goodwill executices, Jasper and Millard Heath, two years after
the 1937 establishment of Goodwill Ind. in Dallas. The 1930 US census describes Millard J Heath as self employed Elevator Mechanic,
with wife Mary and son, Billy. In 1940, Millard's census entry includes wife Mary and son, Billy and Millard's position with Goodwill:
1940 US census image link.:
http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyCrafardGoodwllMillarJheathGoodwill1940Census.jpg
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyCrafardGoodwill1939DirectoryJasperD_MillardJheath.jpg)
At the time of Millard J Heath's death in 1978, his death certificate describes Heath as Executive Director of the Dallas Medical Soc.:
https://www.dallasnews.com/obituaries/obituaries/2015/09/11/bob-heath-who-built-on-legacy-of-dallas-medical-society-dies-at-83
Bob Heath, who built on legacy of Dallas Medical Society, dies at 83
Sept., 2015
Robert L. Heath built on his father?s legacy in leading the Dallas County Medical Society and Goodwill Industries. The generational team guided the medical society for a total of 60 years.
Heath, 83, died Monday of natural causes at Methodist Dallas Medical Center.
A celebration of life for Heath will be at 2 p.m. Sept. 19 at the Dallas County Medical Society, 140 E. 12th Street in Dallas. The building is named for the father and son.
?He was a fun person that people looked up to,? said his son, Steve Heath, a DeSoto psychologist.
Doctors continued to seek Bob Heath?s advice and guidance years after he retired as executive director of the medical society ? including when he was hospitalized.
?The nurses in the hospital were always amazed, because there would be a parade of doctors coming to see him, far more than most people,? his son said. ?Instead of checking on him, they would be coming in and asking, ?Hey, I?ve got a problem with this ...??
Heath was born in Dallas, where he graduated from Sunset High School in 1949. His father, Millard Heath, an ordained Methodist minister, was a leader in juvenile services and a founder of Goodwill Industries. He became executive director of the medical society in 1946.
Bob Heath attended Arlington State College, now the University of Texas at Arlington. In 1951, he married his childhood sweetheart, Vanita Dickenson.
Heath worked for two companies in Dallas after he served in the Naval Reserves during the Korean War.
He was with Goodwill Industries in Dallas in 1960, when the agency named him executive director of its operation in Jacksonville, Fla. He returned to Dallas in 1966 as director of rehabilitation and personnel of Goodwill Industries here.
In 1969, he joined the Dallas County Medical Society as assistant executive medical officer to his father, who was nearing retirement. In 1974, Bob Heath became the society?s executive director, a post he held until 1996.
The Dallas County Medical Society grew from 1,600 members to 6,000 under Bob Heath?s direction. He also increased the medical society?s presence in the community, including the Health Check program. The society also became more active in lobbying the Texas Legislature to shape public health issues, his son said.
?He was absolutely the dutiful son, who loved and honored his father, and to him there was no greater way to do that than to follow in his footsteps,? Dr. Heath said.
Heath grew up as a member of Oak Cliff United Methodist Church and had been an active member of Cliff Temple Baptist Church for 30 years, his son said. Heath was also a founding board member of the Southwest Transplant Foundation.
In addition to his wife and son, Heath is survived by ....
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BTW, was any WC witness testifying to the WC referred by the WC to the DOJ for investigation of possibly perjured testimony?
The strongest contradiction to Truly's testimony was included in a Secret Service report....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490&relPageId=781&search=mr._truly%20and%20retarded
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/DoughertyConfusedTrulyToSS.jpg)
Roy Truly and Dougherty's father seemed to influence at least the SS to "call off the dogs."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm
....Mr. BELIN. Could you tell us a little bit about Jack Dougherty?
Mr. TRULY. Jack Dougherty has been working for us 12 or 14 years. Until we moved into this building, he has been mostly in our State Department, the building at 1917 North Houston. He would fill orders for--that called for many cartons of books on a three-textbook-order basis to the various schools in Texas. And he seemed to be intelligent and smart and a hard worker. The main thing is he just worked all the time.
I have never had any occasion to have any hard words for Jack. A few times he would get a little bit---maybe do a little something wrong, and I would mention it to him, and he would just go to pieces--not anything--but anything the rest of the day or the next day would not be right. [Deletion.] He is a great big husky fellow. I think he is 39 years old. He has never been married. He has no interest in women. He gets flustered, has a small word for it, at times. He has never had any trouble. He is a good, loyal, hard working employee. He always has been.
Mr. BELIN. Would you _consider him of average intelligence?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir. I think what is wrong with him mostly is his emotional makeup. I would say that for the work he is doing, he is of average intelligence.
Mr. BELIN. When you got to the fifth floor, as I understand it, the west elevator was not there, but when you started up from the first floor, you thought it was on the fifth floor.
Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor---from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back.
Mr. BELIN. But when you got to the fifth floor that west elevator was not there?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was it on any floor below the fifth floor?
Mr. TRULY. I didn't look.
Mr. BELIN. As you were climbing up the floors, you did not see it?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. ....
This article indicates Roy Truly could not have it both ways. Dougherty appears not to have socialized, supported by Truly's own
testimony and the fact Dougherty never moved from his parent's home except during his brief military service.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/emotional-smarts-tied-to/
Emotional Smarts Tied to General IQ
The same brain regions that perform cognitive tasks may also provide social intelligence, according to a new study
By Tia Ghose, LiveScience on January 23, 2013
....Emotional smarts and general intelligence may be more closely linked than previously thought, new research suggests.
In a group of Vietnam veterans, IQ test results and emotional intelligence, or the ability to perceive, understand and deal with emotion in oneself or in others, were linked. And in brain scans, the same regions of the brain seemed to perform both emotional and cognitive tasks, the study found. The findings were published in the journal Social Cognitive & Affective Neuroscience.
"Intelligence, to a large extent, does depend on basic cognitive abilities, like attention and perception and memory and language," said study coauthor Aron Barbey, a neuroscientist at the University of Illinois, in a statement. "But it also depends on interacting with other people. We're fundamentally social beings and our understanding not only involves basic cognitive abilities but also involves productively applying those abilities to social situations so that we can navigate the social world and understand others."....
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I called that individual to suggest the Dougherty family donate a photo of uncle Jack to the Sixth Floor Museum, in consideration of the impending 50th anniversary of the JFK Assassination. The reaction to my suggestion was "no" and the stated reason was the upset to the family in reaction to negative opinions and suspicions about Jack posted on the internet. I was asked how the recipient of my call could be
certain I was not one of the interenet posters influencing such upset to the Doigherty family
Do you think the possibility that the reason was not that, but that Dougherty was not white but black or hispanic or dark skin colored or mixed race or anykind of family secret like that?
Also being in charge for checking the fire alarm system in a building full of paper and being retarded is paradox.
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Do you think the possibility that the reason was not that, but that Dougherty was not white but black or hispanic or dark skin colored or mixed race or anykind of family secret like that?
Also being in charge for checking the fire alarm system in a building full of paper and being retarded is paradox.
My posts usually attract little response because I prepare to the extent I seem to leave little opportunity for challenging
No ...Your posts are long winded and boring....and the reasoning is so convoluted it's like the proverbial can of worms....
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My posts usually attract little response because I prepare to the extent I seem to leave little opportunity for challenging what I present
in them.
Uh not really. The copy and paste crap is serpentine. What is up with that? Can we put what we are trying to say in 25 words or less?
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Uh not really. The copy and paste crap is serpentine. What is up with that? Can we put what we are trying to say in 25 words or less?
It seems to require an uncurious approach to disparage well supported, original research as "The copy and paste crap".
I look for collaborators interested in attempting to build further on building blocks I present in my posts. Few and far
between there are able, open minded researchers I have encountered who are seeking accurate information unimpaired by an
ingrained agenda.
And Jerry, you could have chosen to offer a gracious thank you for finding and presenting what you were unable to locate,,,
some Evidence of Jack Dougherty's employment before military enlistmnent.
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Doughtery made no sense and asst counsel Ball made no sense. Ball didn't even establish what had happened to four years of JDs life after he left high school in 1937! However that might be answered with the picture below.
......
The bottom image in my last post includes. "Employer: A And P Store"
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/doughert.htm
...Mr. BALL - What year did you get out of high school? About?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, 1937.
Mr. BALL - 1937?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What kind of work did you do after that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, of course, a year or so, you might say--just work in grocery stores until I was 19 and volunteered for the Armed Services in October--October 24, 1942.
Mr. BALL - How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact..
LOL.... the esteemed Doug Horne, in RATHER LENGTHY reaction to proveable fact opposite his deeply ingrained beliefs.:
My (brief, in comparison) book review (User ID Rational Voice (https://books.google.com/books?id=OGOCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT378&lpg=PT378&dq=mary%27s+mosaic+rational+voice+georgia+law+professor&source=bl&ots=9nb-juMscT&sig=ACfU3U1yABOgLuPVW0tbvfJ3Cj3GkZGRFw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR4YSJu-ngAhUFGt8KHZ8vDP0Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary's%20mosaic%20rational%20voice%20georgia%20law%20professor&f=false)) at this link:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RWKKPDXQXFKPD/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1510708928
Horne's "comment" is on second page of comments located below my review.:
Not linkable, but access by clicking this at the bottom of first page of 13 comments.:
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/DougHorneReviewcommentLinkButton.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JanneyHorneReacts.jpg)
IOW, Jerry, your post indicates you are unappreciative of intricate UNIQUE, verifiable detail unearthed with considerable effort,
in favor of a comic book formatted presentation?
-
Tom?s well sourced documentation is a refreshing change from the usual speculation, opinion, and posturing that mostly goes on here.
-
Tom?s well sourced documentation is a refreshing change from the usual speculation, opinion, and posturing that mostly goes on here.
So you like Tom's posts.... What has Scully done to advance your knowledge? Are you any closer to uncovering the truth because of Scully's scholarly satire.
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is non existent.".....
-
Jack claimed to have gone back to work just before the shots. He said after a brief stop on the 6th floor he ventured down to the 5th to get some stock when he heard a loud noise. Is it possible that he originally went to the 5th to continue working and after a short period heard the loud noise and took the elevator to the 6th to investigate?
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Jack claimed to have gone back to work just before the shots. He said after a brief stop on the 6th floor he ventured down to the 5th to get some stock when he heard a loud noise. Is it possible that he originally went to the 5th to continue working and after a short period heard the loud noise and took the elevator to the 6th to investigate?
Colin....Surely you're aware that Dougherty's testimony about his whereabouts between 12:00 and 1:00 is useless. He was so scared that he couldn't respond to simple questions ..... Like if he served outside of the US during his enlistment in the Army. You should simply ignore his nonsense.... and ask yourself WHY was Jack Dougherty so terrified?? If anybody had reason to be petrified into babbling nonsense it would have been Lee Oswald. ( and particularly so if he had been guilty.
So Lee answers accusing questions put to him in a calm and rational manner....But Dougherty can't even answer innocuous questions in a rational manner.
-
If West elevator is used by a shooter or shooters on the 6th floor it had to have been boarded by 10 sec post shots in order to have any probable chance of reaching 1st floor by 45 sec posts shots, just before Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles reach the 1st floor by 60 sec post shots. This presumes an elevator avg. speed of 1 floor per 7 secs. So 35 seconds from 6th floor to 1st floor.
The West elevator would have to immediately be returned back up to 5th floor and be there by approx 75 second post shots, to be seen there by Truly looking up the elevator shaft.
From 1st to 5th floor requring about 28 seconds, is possible therefore, for the West elevator to be back on the 5th floor at 73 sec post shots. JUST IN TIME!
But can the West elevator be "sent' back up by someone just having used it, by pushing a button, and it returns itself, or does this elevator require someone be IN the elevator to operate it?
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If West elevator is used by a shooter or shooters on the 6th floor it had to have been boarded by 10 sec post shots in order to have any probable chance of reaching 1st floor by 45 sec posts shots, just before Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles reach the 1st floor by 60 sec post shots. This presumes an elevator avg. speed of 1 floor per 7 secs. So 35 seconds from 6th floor to 1st floor.
The West elevator would have to immediately be returned back up to 5th floor and be there by approx 75 second post shots, to be seen there by Truly looking up the elevator shaft.
From 1st to 5th floor requring about 28 seconds, is possible therefore, for the West elevator to be back on the 5th floor at 73 sec post shots. JUST IN TIME!
But can the West elevator be "sent' back up by someone just having used it, by pushing a button, and it returns itself, or does this elevator require someone be IN the elevator to operate it?
Jack's boss at Goodwill Ind., in 1952 might have been able to answer some of your questions.
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/OswaldDoughertyGoodwillBossHeath1930Elevator.jpg)
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/OswaldDoughertyGoodwillBossHeath1930ElevatorFirm.jpg)
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/OswaldDougherty1952GoodwillCRP.jpg)
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/OswaldDougherty1952GoodwillimediateBoss.jpg)
https://www.dallasnews.com/obituaries/obituaries/2015/09/11/bob-heath-who-built-on-legacy-of-dallas-medical-society-dies-at-83
Bob Heath, who built on legacy of Dallas Medical Society, dies at 83
Sept., 2015
...Heath was born in Dallas, where he graduated from Sunset High School in 1949. His father, Millard Heath, an ordained Methodist minister, was a leader in juvenile services and a founder of Goodwill Industries. He became executive director of the medical society in 1946.
Bob Heath attended Arlington State College, now the University of Texas at Arlington. In 1951, he married his childhood sweetheart, Vanita Dickenson.
Heath worked for two companies in Dallas after he served in the Naval Reserves during the Korean War.
He was with Goodwill Industries in Dallas in 1960, when the agency named him executive director of its operation in Jacksonville, Fla. He returned to Dallas in 1966 as director of rehabilitation and personnel of Goodwill Industries here.
...
Jack's boss Roy Truly at TSBD openly testified that Jack was intelligent. Better yet, it seems likely it is intentional
we are in the dark today as to Jack's true potential and abilities
and are unaware whether Jack was personally acquainted with his former boss, Millard J. Heath.
......
Two gentlemen of the same surname were Dallas Goodwill executices, Jasper and Millard Heath, two years after
the 1937 establishment of Goodwill Ind. in Dallas. The 1930 US census describes Millard J Heath as self employed Elevator Mechanic,
with wife Mary and son, Billy. In 1940, Millard's census entry includes wife Mary and son, Billy and Millard's position with Goodwill:
1940 US census image link.:
http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyCrafardGoodwllMillarJheathGoodwill1940Census.jpg
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/RubyCrafardGoodwill1939DirectoryJasperD_MillardJheath.jpg)
At the time of Millard J Heath's death in 1978, his death certificate describes Heath as Executive Director of the Dallas Medical Soc.:
-
Colin....Surely you're aware that Dougherty's testimony about his whereabouts between 12:00 and 1:00 is useless. He was so scared that he couldn't respond to simple questions ..... Like if he served outside of the US during his enlistment in the Army. You should simply ignore his nonsense.... and ask yourself WHY was Jack Dougherty so terrified?? If anybody had reason to be petrified into babbling nonsense it would have been Lee Oswald. ( and particularly so if he had been guilty.
So Lee answers accusing questions put to him in a calm and rational manner....But Dougherty can't even answer innocuous questions in a rational manner.
Was not the Eisenberg memo prior to his appearance before the WC? His WC testimony is not as bad as it is made out to be. Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question. Some appear to be an answer to a misheard one. One wonders if some of his mental issues might actually be due to hearing loss. (eg. only heard one shot, didn't hear Truly call for the elevator). My recollection of his WC testimony is that Ball made a complete hash of it. At times it was hard to understand either of them. At any rate he was an important witness, he afforded the lone gunman theory an innocuous movement of the west elevator after its use by Jarman and Norman. They had left it on the 5th floor but closed the gates, allowing it to be called from any floor. After the shots it was claimed to be stuck on an upper floor with gates open. This has to be because Dougherty went back to work for the WC version. He supposedly left the gates open, preventing Truly from calling it. By the time Truly and Baker reached the fifth floor it had gone. This was either via Dougherty or by unknown persons.
The question is, if Dougherty went back to work just before 12.30......where was he working just before lunch? Was it the 5th floor or the 6th? I do not think he was part of the elevator race and so it seems doubtful he was working on the 6th at that time. So, why would he go back to work on the 6th for a few moments then descend to the 5th? Both times leaving the only elevator available "locked". All he had to do was close the gates on the west elevator and work on the 5th, then take the east elevator down manually when he needed.
Walt, do not play the LN game and dismiss the guy......that's what they want. Looks like a note from dad and a word from the boss was sufficient......really?
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Was not the Eisenberg memo prior to his appearance before the WC? His WC testimony is not as bad as it is made out to be. Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question. Some appear to be an answer to a misheard one. One wonders if some of his mental issues might actually be due to hearing loss.
This! Thumb1:
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And Jerry, you could have chosen to offer a gracious thank you for finding and presenting what you were unable to locate
You would probably get one if it had anything to do with the assassination.
-
Was not the Eisenberg memo prior to his appearance before the WC? His WC testimony is not as bad as it is made out to be. Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question. Some appear to be an answer to a misheard one. One wonders if some of his mental issues might actually be due to hearing loss. (eg. only heard one shot, didn't hear Truly call for the elevator). My recollection of his WC testimony is that Ball made a complete hash of it. At times it was hard to understand either of them. At any rate he was an important witness, he afforded the lone gunman theory an innocuous movement of the west elevator after its use by Jarman and Norman. They had left it on the 5th floor but closed the gates, allowing it to be called from any floor. After the shots it was claimed to be stuck on an upper floor with gates open. This has to be because Dougherty went back to work for the WC version. He supposedly left the gates open, preventing Truly from calling it. By the time Truly and Baker reached the fifth floor it had gone. This was either via Dougherty or by unknown persons.
The question is, if Dougherty went back to work just before 12.30......where was he working just before lunch? Was it the 5th floor or the 6th? I do not think he was part of the elevator race and so it seems doubtful he was working on the 6th at that time. So, why would he go back to work on the 6th for a few moments then descend to the 5th? Both times leaving the only elevator available "locked". All he had to do was close the gates on the west elevator and work on the 5th, then take the east elevator down manually when he needed.
Walt, do not play the LN game and dismiss the guy......that's what they want. Looks like a note from dad and a word from the boss was sufficient......really?
DISMISS Dougherty???? Where did you get that idea?.... I was pointing out that Dougherty was involved in the framing of Lee Oswald UP TO HIS EYEBALLS. And he was scared to death that he was going to be caught. That's why he had a lawyer and his dad at his side during his testimony before the WC.
Dougherty family knows that he was involved and have closed ranks behind him.....
If Dougherty had been the misfit mental case that he's portrayed as...He would never have served in the US Army....
Bottom Line.... Jack Dougherty was involved in the conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy.
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This! Thumb1:
His WC testimony is not as bad as it is made out to be. Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question. Some appear to be an answer to a misheard one. One wonders if some of his mental issues might actually be due to hearing loss.
"Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question."
Yes....That's the point..... WHY was he so scared that he couldn't respond with the answer that he had been coached for.....
I believe his "mental issues" were simply a guilty conscience ...... He was not the brightest bulb on the tree and he'd been used just as many mentally deficient persons have been used throughout history. He knew that Le Oswald had not been on the sixth floor and he knew the rifle and shells had been planted...because he had planted them...Just as Mr Truly had ordered..... And he was scared to death that he was going to be caught.
-
His WC testimony is not as bad as it is made out to be. Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question. Some appear to be an answer to a misheard one. One wonders if some of his mental issues might actually be due to hearing loss.
"Some of his answers appear to be rehearsed but to the wrong question."
Yes....That's the point..... WHY was he so scared that he couldn't respond with the answer that he had been coached for.....
I believe his "mental issues" were simply a guilty conscience ...... He was not the brightest bulb on the tree and he'd been used just as many mentally deficient persons have been used throughout history. He knew that Le Oswald had not been on the sixth floor and he knew the rifle and shells had been planted...because he had planted them...Just as Mr Truly had ordered..... And he was scared to death that he was going to be caught.
He obeyed orders to plant the rifle and shells, but no one told him to say he'd seen Mr Oswald running down the stairs?
Not exactly a joined-up hypothesis, Mr Cakebread... :-[
-
So you like Tom's posts.... What has Scully done to advance your knowledge?
Well, just off the top of my head:
The info that Whaley and Davis lied about their ages. The info about the money order sequence numbers and the Kansas City vs Alexandria records centers, the vital records information he dug up on Jack Dougherty, Domingo Benavides, the Paines and many others...
What have you done other than make up a bunch of nonsense stories and false claims?
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He obeyed orders to plant the rifle and shells, but no one told him to say he'd seen Mr Oswald running down the stairs?
Not exactly a joined-up hypothesis, Mr Cakebread... :-[
I think the conspirators who had set Lee up had not anticipated the possibility of having to account for Lee's presence in the lunchroom....Both Baker and Oswald unwittingly foiled their well laid plot... If Lee had been found assuming room temperature in the TSBD after the murder of JFK....The case would have been closed right then....
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I think the conspirators who had set Lee up had not anticipated the possibility of having to account for Lee's presence in the lunchroom....Both Baker and Oswald unwittingly foiled their well laid plot... If Lee had been found assuming room temperature in the TSBD after the murder of JFK....The case would have been closed right then....
If Mr Dougherty had said he'd seen Mr Oswald running down the stairs, the case would have been closed right then.
But no-----that would have been way too much to ask of the man who had agreed to plant the rifle and shells.
::)
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If Mr Dougherty had said he'd seen Mr Oswald running down the stairs, the case would have been closed right then.
But no-----that would have been way too much to ask of the man who had agreed to plant the rifle and shells.
::)
Dougherty had not been instructed to say he saw Lee Oswald running down the stairs....Thus he didn't say that....and he damned sure never witnessed that imaginary event.
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Dougherty had not been instructed to say he saw Lee Oswald running down the stairs....Thus he didn't say that....and he damned sure never witnessed that imaginary event.
Was he instructed to put himself in about the worst possible place for the official story of Mr Oswald's descent----------standing near the stairs on the fifth floor?
-
So you like Tom's posts.... What has Scully done to advance your knowledge? Are you any closer to uncovering the truth because of Scully's scholarly satire.
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is non existent.".....
......
Well, just off the top of What have you done other than make up a bunch of nonsense stories and false claims?
Crickets......? I am shocked.....just shocked, I tell ya! Walt, I can only lead you to water. Drinking it is entirely up to you.
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/ShelleyCakebreadWhatHasScully.jpg)
and....
https://jfkfacts.org/hardway-declaration-cia-stonewalled-jfk-investigation/#comment-880768
Tom S. June 6, 2016 at 11:37 pm
Part II of II
Oliver Stone protested :.....
......
Here is the link to Nicholas Lemann and Zachary Sklar trading letters in GQ, after the Lemann?s Jan., 1992 article was published?..
Lemann responds on pg. 2, to Sklar?s letter which begins on pg 1.:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman's%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
No disclosure in Nicholas?s rebuttal to Zachary Sklar, or from Sklar about Lemann?s conflicts/background:.....
......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Lemann
Nicholas Berthelot Lemann is the Joseph Pulitzer II and Edith Pulitzer Moore Professor of Journalism and Dean Emeritus of the Faculty of Journalism at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.[1] ......
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/#comment-853454
Tom S. January 25, 2016 at 7:24 pm
FYI, Dr. McAdams,
Angleton is presented as inquiring about Edward M. Baldwin?s partner, Quaid. Where do you suppose the document in the CIA file
including Angleton?s memo is, that advises that Quaid?s law partner, Edward Baldwin, an attorney representing Sheridan and Townley, is the brother of the officially disgraced covert agent, David G. Baldwin, or the document advising that the Baldwins are brothers-in-law of
Stephen B. Lemann?
I approach the research first from the genealogy. I found the obituaries necessary to learn the background. I found David G. Baldwin?s wife?s mother?s obit and noted her daughter, David?s wife Mildred, and her two step-sons, NIcholas?s father, Thomas B. Lemann, and his brother, Stephen B. Lemann, and then I worked to find out what I could about them, and that lead me to their father, Monte, and the last thing I did was find the documents in the John Armstrong archive on the Baylor University library website. When was the last time you discovered and presented any new, primary research?
From the names, the ?parts? fit like a glove, right down to Photon ignoring the question of why he said David G. Baldwin could not be a covert CIA
agent. I?ll be happy to revise my comment about the CIA docunents not fitting the scenario if you can tell us who ?Mrs. Lillian Baxter? was?
The CIA alleges she caused David G. Baldwin to be drummed out of covert CIA cover in India, and he came back to the U.S. to be hired by Shaw at the ITM.
She is described as of dual U.S. and Indian citizenship, formerly married to a planter, but now a prostitute possibly spying for the Soviets:
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=54933&relPageId=2&search=calcutta
Nicholas B. Lemann is either witting and disgraceful, or he is too stupid to earn his Dean position on the merits, and that won?t change, no matter
your opinion of the documents in the Garrison files. Someone came pretty close to describing what was actually going on?.I?m talking about the
memo by William Martin dated May 24, 1967, not the CIA documents telling us the sordid tale of Baldwin leaving the CIA in disgrace, or Quaid?s
letter developing into a matter under Angleton?s name on a memo when the reaction to his letter began with a routince check with a DCS rep. in NOLA.
Are you aware that the DCS chief had a special place in his heart for NOLA? He was Squirrel Ashcraft, recognized as an authority on the development
of Jazz in the first half of the 20th century. The more I consider what you do, load your website with page after page presenting, ?nothing sinister here,?
it is all just as the CIA and FBI reports say it is, the more I wonder why I reply to your comments.
You have no interest to learn anything, and you are regarded an expert in this field, but I cannot recall learning anything new from you.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1734.0
Intention Aside, Did Stone's "JFK, the Movie" Destroy Potential to be informed?
? on: February 18, 2019, by Tom Scully
Everyone likely intends to approach JFK Assassination Research with an open mind, so....what do we honestly, realistically
make of "all this"?
Why are these two CIA assets and back to back Trade Mart PR directors, David & Jesse, hired by Clay Shaw, seen here three
months apart in 1967, egging on Shaw and then Garrison in opposing directions?....
......
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knckgt3ASNI/Vrd2i7xQ1aI/AAAAAAAACvc/m_y25b9LkuA/s512-Ic42/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vuym6rw9doQ/Vrdqs-3WcEI/AAAAAAAACu0/OK-mVPFKpW0/s512-Ic42/BaldwinCousinDonaldCarpenterFootnote.jpg)
......
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Core%20Jesse/Item%2008.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonJessCoreVsShawAndBaldwinCRP.jpg)
...................
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Was he instructed to put himself in about the worst possible place for the official story of Mr Oswald's descent----------standing near the stairs on the fifth floor?
I assume that Truly simply told him to leave the spent shells by the window and hide the rifle beneath boxes of books at the top of the stairs....and he assumed that Dougherty remain out of sight ..... pretending to be filling book orders. Marrion Baker inadvertently made a mess of it all by barging into the building ......
-
Crickets......? I am shocked.....just shocked, I tell ya! Walt, I can only lead you to water. Drinking it is entirely up to you.
(http://jfkdebate.com/images/ShelleyCakebreadWhatHasScully.jpg)
and....
...................
Walt, I can only lead you to water. Drinking it is entirely up to you.
Water?.... Why isn't it clear?..... The suckers at Jonestown were told it was koolaide.....
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Walt, I can only lead you to water. Drinking it is entirely up to you.
Water?.... Why isn't it clear?..... The suckers at Jonestown were told it was koolaide.....
Flavor Aid.
You can't even get that right...
-
Flavor Aid.
You can't even get that right...
Oh, so you were there.....Well why the hell didn't you drink..... Did you think the world needed another big a--hole?
-
Oh, so you were there.....Well why the hell didn't you drink..... Did you think the world needed another big a--hole?
No, I just understand that you don't get reliable information by just making up your own stories. And watch the insults.
-
I assume that Truly simply told him to leave the spent shells by the window and hide the rifle beneath boxes of books at the top of the stairs....and he assumed that Dougherty remain out of sight ..... pretending to be filling book orders. Marrion Baker inadvertently made a mess of it all by barging into the building ......
I assume... he assumed...
Nope, Mr Cakebread, still not a joined-up theory.
-
No, I just understand that you don't get reliable information by just making up your own stories. And watch the insults.
Insults?
Let's have a poll to see how many readers think that you're an A--hole.....
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Insults?
Let's have a poll to see how many readers think that you're an A--hole.....
Sure, as long as we can do the same for you.
-
Sure, as long as we can do the same for you.
Go for it.... I'm sure that many LNer's think that I'm an a-- hole .... I wouldn't expect them to think otherwise. But I'd like to know WHY they think that I'm an AH .
I'd bet that i've gave many of them a black eye at some time or other.....
-
Jarman, Williams, and Norman testified that they were on the 5th floor during the shooting. Dougherty's hand written affidavit said that he went back to work at 12:45 and was on the 5th floor when he heard a shot. So he must have had a delayed hearing problem of over 15 minutes. Dougherty also must have had a chronic vision problem as he didn't seem to notice the trio on the same floor. Mr Dougherty also mentioned going down to the 1st floor to report hearing the shot. This is when the power was off and the elevators were not working?
Mr. BALL - Did you see any strangers in the building that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir. *********
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package. *********
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened. **********
Mr. BALL - Are you sure you were on the fifth floor when you heard the shots?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I'm positive. *********
Mr. BALL - Did you see any other employee on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't see nobody---there wasn't nobody on the fifth floor at all---it was just myself. ******
Mr. BALL - You told me that just before you heard the shots, you had been on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And then you went down to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody on the sixth floor when you were there, before you went to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes; I did.
Mr. BALL - Who?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, there was Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady--- [Duh]
Mr. BALL - That was in the morning, wasn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - That wasn't after lunch, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - After lunch, did you ever see them on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - Now, did you hear this shot either before or after lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was before lunch it was before lunch.
Mr. BALL - You think it was before lunch you heard the shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I believe it was--yes, sir. **********
Mr. BALL - And you were alone, were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes. ********
********* = He was either lying or he was a complete idiot.
However, the Commission must have really savored the hearsay testimony about Oswald and his "package".
-
Jarman, Williams, and Norman testified that they were on the 5th floor during the shooting. Dougherty's hand written affidavit said that he went back to work at 12:45 and was on the 5th floor when he heard a shot. So he must have had a delayed hearing problem of over 15 minutes. Dougherty also must have had a chronic vision problem as he didn't seem to notice the trio on the same floor. Mr Dougherty also mentioned going down to the 1st floor to report hearing the shot. This is when the power was off and the elevators were not working?********* = He was either lying or he was a complete idiot.
However, the Commission must have really savored the hearsay testimony about Oswald and his "package".
He was either lying or he was a complete idiot.
Dougherty was mentally challenged.... Roy Truly testified that when Jack Dougherty became upset or excited he couldn't function. And that's why his Dad and lawyer were at his side when he appeared before the WC. He was so rattled when he appeared before the WC that he was a babbling idiot... Dougherty knew a whole lot more about the murder of JFK than he ever revealed....
-
Mr. BALL - What time did you go to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I got there---it was after 7 o'clock in the morning.
Mr. BALL - Do you usually get there in the morning at 7 o'clock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Why do you get there at 7 instead of 8, when the rest of the men get there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you might say, I have a little---extra chores to do.
Mr. BALL - You do that--you get there at 7 all the time, don't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I've been doing it for 11 years.
Mr. BALL - That's what Mr. Truly told me, that you get there real early.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And you did get there about 7 that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Let's see, Mr. Dougherty, you said that you have some extra chores--what are those extra chores?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I have to see to it that the water system is pumped up. In other words, the air pressure is up to where---up to 40 pounds so that if it isn't pumped up, the alarm goes off, and the ADT runs that alarm system, and we immediately call Mr. Truly and of course they call me.[ ??? say that again]
Mr. BALL - What is the ADT?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's that---I don't know too much about it---it has something to do with the alarm system they have got down there.
Mr. BALL - You mean the pressure, do you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes
Mr. BALL - Is that a fire-alarm system?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes--you could call it that.
Mr. BALL - Now, what else do you do there early in the morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, let's see, I have to check and see that there is no leaks ,in the building, that the pipes are not leaking somewhere.
Mr. BALL - Anything else you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No; I believe that just about covers it.
What is strange about that testimony is that Mr Daugherty claims to have performed this routine at the TSBD for ELEVEN years and the Depository itself had only been there for barely ONE! They had moved into the old Sexton Building just that winter before.
His testimony here and what I had posted reply #42 earlier---To have compiled and printed this garbage speaks volumes for the Commission staff. It demonstrates the whitewash given the assassination of JFK.
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I believe the man in the background on the left may be Mr Dougherty (we know he was in the Homicide Office at that exact time)----------------
(https://i.imgur.com/dF5ErAx.jpg)
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I believe the man in the background on the left may be Mr Dougherty (we know he was in the Homicide Office at that exact time)----------------
Probably a lot of people were. I copied this from another article...
(https://i.ibb.co/CVqgtWW/Screenshot-2022-03-05-at-00-51-04-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKIN-VILLAGE-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKI.png)
Possibly a typo but Dougherty didn't seem to remember his supervisor's name..
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Jack E. Dougherty w/m/40, 1827 So.Marsalis WH-6-7170 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: I am employed at the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm and have been since 1952. I was working on the sixth floor today. There was [sic] six of us working on the floor. The others were Bill Lovelady, William Shelby, Danny Arce, Bonnie Williams, and Charles Givens. I went back to work at 12:45 p.m. I had already gone back to work and I gone down on the fifth [sic] to get some stock when I heard a shot. It sounded like it was coming from inside the building, but I couldn't tell from where. I went down on the first floor, and asked a man named Eddie Piper if he had heard anything and he said yes, that he had heard three shots. I then went back on the sixth floor. I didn't see anyone on the floor except the people I named. There was another employee that is named Lee Oswald that I saw on the sixth floor. He works all over the building, but I saw him on the sixth floor shortly before noon. I didn't see Oswald in the building after lunch.
/s/ Jack E. Dougherty SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
Who told him to write something about Oswald? Still a very convoluted account.
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Probably a lot of people were.
This man is in casual short sleeves
(https://i.imgur.com/dF5ErAx.jpg)
I copied this from another article...[/b]
(https://i.ibb.co/CVqgtWW/Screenshot-2022-03-05-at-00-51-04-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKIN-VILLAGE-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKI.png)
That's not him
Possibly a typo but Dougherty didn't seem to remember his supervisor's name..Who told him to write something about Oswald?
He was just giving his affidavit statement when Mr Oswald was brought in (a scene caught on film), and so he was asked about him.
Same with Mr Bill Shelley: he is giving his statement in the small back room, into which Mr Oswald is about to be brought. He will be asked to give a second affidavit, this time about Mr Oswald. It will evade the all-important question of whether he saw Mr Oswald at the time of the P. Parade:
(https://i.postimg.cc/2Sg103c0/Shelley-not-see-lee.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
"I went outside to see the president. After the president's accident, I...": note the leap in time
Thumb1:
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I believe the man in the background on the left may be Mr Dougherty (we know he was in the Homicide Office at that exact time)----------------(https://i.imgur.com/dF5ErAx.jpg)
Photo submitted by Freeman----
(https://i.ibb.co/CVqgtWW/Screenshot-2022-03-05-at-00-51-04-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKIN-VILLAGE-BOOK-DEPOSITORY-AS-A-POTEMKI.png)
That's not him
Short sleeve man might be Jack, but short sleeves has really dark hair...did Dougherty? Why couldn't uniformed man be Dougherty?
What about this?..... "he was in the Homicide Office"? OK--How did he get there?
(https://i.ibb.co/tpxG5Wt/jd2.png)
Perhaps red arrowed man is Jack. The circled guy is Shelley [so I believe]
Jack Daugherty---the most poorly photographed guy ever.
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Jack Dougherty: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67466549/jack-edwin-dougherty
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Jack Dougherty: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67466549/jack-edwin-dougherty
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67466549/jack-edwin-dougherty
Not one of these pictures is a positively confirmed picture of Jack Dougherty.
The most clear ones are excluded because on his draft card it states he has a "mole under nose".
There is one possible picture of an elderly Dougherty where he seems to have such a mole.
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Jack Dougherty: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67466549/jack-edwin-dougherty
Thanks Denis, I found this at that site, now before I get critical I will acknowledge that my handwriting is not good but looking at the following handwriting I initially thought it was written by a 10 year old, the way he mixes capital letters with lower case especially with his own surname of his mother is a bit weird and sort of explains his wacko testimony.
(https://i.ibb.co/b7WfCfG/67466549-e6aedb62-e5e4-4568-abad-f4a4a763ebf0.jpg)
JohnM
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Jack Dougherty: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67466549/jack-edwin-dougherty
That would be this....
(https://i.ibb.co/LgyzjTB/67466549-22b09ce5-9ec9-4054-8791-abac662784f9.jpg)
I have offered to help Mr Mytton with his imaging skills but....? Anyway, below is a more accessible image if that is helpful.
(https://i.ibb.co/b7WfCfG/67466549-e6aedb62-e5e4-4568-abad-f4a4a763ebf0.jpg)
Not one of these pictures is a positively confirmed picture of Jack Dougherty.
The most clear ones are excluded because on his draft card it states he has a "mole under nose".
The most clear ones are still crappy though. The bottom right photo on the fidagrave pictures doesn't look the others at all. Note that the registration card lists color of hair as blonde. Does this not rule out some photos [unless he dyed his hair often]
ALSO---Why would an epileptic be admitted to the service ???
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Daugherty getting grilled revisited----
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't have a car---I have to ride ,the bus.
Mr. BALL - Did you see Oswald come to work that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---when he first come into the door.
Mr. BALL - When he came in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; I saw him when he first come in the door--yes.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands or arms?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, not that I could see of.
Mr. BALL - About what time of day was that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That was 8 o'clock.
Mr. BALL - That was about 8 o'clock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What door did he come in?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, he came in the back door.
Mr. BALL - Where were you then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I was---sitting on top of the wrapping table.
Mr. BALL - Now, do you remember that you gave a statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and to a man by the name of Ellington, or a Mr. Anderton, the day after---the 23d of November?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---I talked to so many of them--it is kind of hard to remember.
Mr. BALL - And there is a statement that they took when they talked to you and in it you said, "I recall vaguely, having seen Lee Oswald when he came to work at about 8 a.m. today."
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I did---that morning.
Mr. BALL - That seems to be dated the 22d day of November 1963.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - The full statement is, "I am employed by the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, as an order filler, and reside at 1827 South Marsalis Street, Dallas, Tex." Did you tell them that?
This FBI statement linked below
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - "I started to work today, 11-22-63, at about 7 a.m. o'clock".
Did you tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The statement says, "I recall vaguely having seen Lee Oswald, when he came to work at about 8 a.m. today."
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - Now, is that a very definite impression that you saw him that morning when he came to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, oh--it's like this--I'll try to explain it to you this way--- you see, I was sitting on the wrapping table and when he came in the door, I just caught him out of the corner of my eye---that's the reason why I said it that way.
Mr. BALL - Did he come in with anybody?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - He was alone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.
Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.
Mr. BALL - You saw him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The back door on the first floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was in the back door.
If this wasn't bad enough Old Joe Ball came after him again ---
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.
So...'some of the fellows' was Bill Shelley? Ball asked for no other names. Also 'the day after' was Saturday...a day when most people had stayed home.
This testimony was made on April 8, 1964 the day after William Shelley gave his 1st testimony. Shelley was examined by Joe Ball.
On May 14....one month later, Bill Shelley was recalled [mostly concerning the rifles that were brought into the TSBD by Warren Caster] The counsel was once again Joe Ball.
NOT one single question was asked about the statement that Dougherty had made about Shelley telling him Oswald was carrying a package. You call this an investigation?
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/30216/archive/fullsize/bbc2f14f2a5a46877431dfe636669294.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1647475200&Signature=geRMR%2FmafvWppoXUura7KqqC5xU%3D)
If you have read Jack Dougherty's previous statements and writings it is pretty easy to tell that he did not make that above report. It was obviously written for him to sign except I don't see his signature...do you?
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I have offered to help Mr Mytton with his imaging skills but....? Anyway, below is a more accessible image if that is helpful.
How is your image more "accessible", because all you've done is resize the image by using a Forum script(big deal) which btw I have done many times, how about you present some of your scientific graphical analysis and show us some of your technical "imaging skills" that you initiated and we'll compare that to my mountain of contributions??
And I don't recall when and where you offered to help me with my "image skills", now admittedly I rarely read your unique insights and could of missed this earth shattering post....?
JohnM
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... we'll compare that to my mountain of contributions??
I rarely read your unique insights and could of missed this earth shattering post....?
I guess I hurt his feelings [if he has any]
He has deposited a mountain of it alright. But I wouldn't call them contributions.
Yes...my insight is unique, thanks.
So then why does he waste so much space and cause people to scroll his images into the next room? :D
Dear readers... look over my previous posts and see that they are indeed unique insight.
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I guess I hurt his feelings [if he has any]
He has deposited a mountain of it alright. But I wouldn't call them contributions.
Yes...my insight is unique, thanks.
So then why does he waste so much space and cause people to scroll his images into the next room? :D
Dear readers... look over my previous posts and see that they are indeed unique insight.
I guess I hurt his feelings [if he has any]
No, your application of the term "image skills" was intentionally misleading, and has nothing to do with the creation of and scientific analysis of images but is a simple Forum script to resize a copy and pasted image.
He has deposited a mountain of it alright. But I wouldn't call them contributions.
Many have tried to refute my work and all have failed, and you are just part of the unsuccessful rabble. Ever since your numerous instances of public humiliation, it's obvious that now at every opportunity you irrationally attack me and appear to have some deep seated resentment of me, but trust me I didn't embarrass you intentionally, I was just trying to educate you. :)
Yes...my insight is unique, thanks.
It certainly is, Ollie!
So then why does he waste so much space and cause people to scroll his images into the next room? :D
As soon as someone clicks on your image so they can actually read what is written, the image becomes the same size as the image I posted, so where is the advantage? Btw you never indicate that your image can be resized so many readers will only see the tiny version.
Dear readers... look over my previous posts and see that they are indeed unique insight.
But on second thought, I rarely read your posts and this "image skill" feature would certainly help me accelerate through your paranoid rantings.
JohnM
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creation of and scientific analysis of images ...you never indicate that your image can be resized so many readers will only see the tiny version.
Tiny version? Perhaps an eye examination [creation of and scientific analysis] for glasses will help :-\
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You've provided some exemplary research in this thread, Mr. Freeman. As always, Mr. Scully has weighed in with some sensible wisdom as well. Not to mention a nice catch/attention to detail provided by Mr. O'meara too @ mole location under Mr. Dougherty's nose. Then there's the gem offered up by Mr. Crow (Colin) as well, pointing out precisely the specific location of Mr. Dougherty up on the sixth-floor during the actual shooting-sequence, not to mention his failure to hear and/or see the wrongly-accused dashing across the floor, hiding a rifle, nor scurrying down the backstairs to a phantom 2nd floor encounter amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.
The day after it happened alright, right after a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure masquerading as "truth" rears its falsehoods.
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Hmmm.......(https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Thinking_Face_Emoji-Emoji-Island.png)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/dougherty-kleins.png)