JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 26, 2018, 10:11:03 PM

Title: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 26, 2018, 10:11:03 PM
 Just want all of you to be aware of the photographic, film, and written testimony evidence that is out there.

Mr. Zapruder's testimony

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm

Testimony Of Abraham Zapruder. The testimony of Abraham Zapruder was taken at 1 p.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.


https://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abraham-zapruder-film/zapruder-interview-transcript/

Zapruder Interview Transcript - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza - The Sixth Floor Museum - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey PlazaThe Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza | The Sixth Floor Museum


Here is Mr. Bill Newman's testimony:

Q: How many shots did you hear?

A: I heard at least three. I often thought of four, but I can't clearly say there were four shots; I can clearly say there were three.

Q: Do you have any impression as to the direction from which the shots came?

 A: Yes, sir. From the sound of the shots, the report of the rifle or whatever it was, it sounded like they were coming directly behind from where I was standing.

Q: Now would you push the microphone aside and step down to the aerial photograph and identify that general area, just the general area from which the sounds came.

A: In my opinion, the sounds of the shots sounded as if they had come from directly behind me (indicating). I was standing near this light standard here, and I thought the shots were coming from back here, and apparently, everybody else did because they all ran in that direction.

http://www.jfk-online.com/wnewmanshaw.html


Mary Moorman photo - NBC source -

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/streams/2013/November/131115/2D9692239-today-moorman-polaroid-jfk-assassination-131114-tz.fit-760w.jpg)

JFK 'grassy knoll' photo fails to sell at auction - TODAY.com
A pivotal piece of American history went on sale Friday morning ? but did not sell. The item ? a Polaroid photo snapped in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, the day of President John F. Kennedy?s ...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)

Look in the shelter, there are people there to the back of Mr. Zapruder.

Nix
Film -
Look at the shelter around the 5-second mark. A shot is fired from the third window and there is another shot fired from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.

Play the video in slow motion, you will see a shot from the third window and a smoke trail from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder. -

How to view the video is slow motion -
In Mr. Zapruder's original statements, he thought he was in the direct line of fire, the shots came from behind him.
In Mr. Newman's original statements, he thought the shots came from the pergola.

This information is hard to grasp, but there is no denying the truth of photographic and film evidence.  I am not asking you to change your opinion, I just want you to know the truth.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 26, 2018, 10:20:39 PM
just want all of you to be aware of the photographic, film, and written testimony evidence that is out there.

Mr. Zapruder's testimony

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm

Testimony Of Abraham Zapruder. The testimony of Abraham Zapruder was taken at 1 p.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.


https://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abraham-zapruder-film/zapruder-interview-transcript/

Zapruder Interview Transcript - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza - The Sixth Floor Museum - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey PlazaThe Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza | The Sixth Floor Museum


Here is Mr. Bill Newman's testimony:

Q: How many shots did you hear?

A: I heard at least three. I often thought of four, but I can't clearly say there were four shots; I can clearly say there were three.

Q: Do you have any impression as to the direction from which the shots came?

 A: Yes, sir. From the sound of the shots, the report of the rifle or whatever it was, it sounded like they were coming directly behind from where I was standing.

Q: Now would you push the microphone aside and step down to the aerial photograph and identify that general area, just the general area from which the sounds came.

A: In my opinion, the sounds of the shots sounded as if they had come from directly behind me (indicating). I was standing near this light standard here, and I thought the shots were coming from back here, and apparently, everybody else did because they all ran in that direction.

http://www.jfk-online.com/wnewmanshaw.html


Mary Moorman photo - NBC source -
(https://www.today.com/news/jfk-grassy-knoll-photo-fails-sell-auction-2D11599940)

JFK 'grassy knoll' photo fails to sell at auction - TODAY.com
A pivotal piece of American history went on sale Friday morning ? but did not sell. The item ? a Polaroid photo snapped in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, the day of President John F. Kennedy?s ...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)

Look in the shelter, there are people there to the back of Mr. Zapruder.

Nix
Film -
Look at the shelter around the 5-second mark. A shot is fired from the third window and there is another shot fired from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.

Play the video in slow motion, you will see a shot from the third window and a smoke trail from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder. -

How to view the video is slow motion -
In Mr. Zapruder's original statements, he thought he was in the direct line of fire, the shots came from behind him.

This information is hard to grasp, but there is no denying the truth of photographic and film evidence.  I am not asking you to change your opinion, I just want you to know the truth.


Many of us here in the forum know that President Kennedy was murdered as the result of a conspiracy.   It doesn't take a genius to understand that only the most powerful men in the U.S. ( LBJ & Hoover at the top) could have been responsible for the coup and the cover up.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 28, 2018, 12:57:29 AM
Know?  How can you possibly know for sure when no hard credible proof of such has come forward in 55 years?  Let?s be reasonable. You may believe he was killed by a conspiracy.  Belief is something one has in the absence of actual evidence.  People believe Bigfoot exists.  Actual evidence?  None.  You?re no different than those people. That?s scary huh?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 01:32:04 AM
Know?  How can you possibly know for sure when no hard credible proof of such has come forward in 55 years?  Let?s be reasonable. You may believe he was killed by a conspiracy.  Belief is something one has in the absence of actual evidence.  People believe Bigfoot exists.  Actual evidence?  None.  You?re no different than those people. That?s scary huh?

Hard photographic in the Mary Moorman photo and video evidence in the Nix film,  plus the initial testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.  It is all there for you to interpret whichever way you want.
Why don't you prove the evidence wrong!  Show supporting information on why the Mary Moorman photo and Nix film evidence is wrong and show evidence that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman never meant to say what they said minutes after the assassination.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 28, 2018, 01:52:34 AM
What specifically do you believe the Moorman photo and Nix film prove?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 02:00:01 AM
1. The Mary Moorman photo shows a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
2. The Nix film shows a smoke trail from a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
3. Mr. Zapruder said in an interview and testimony that he thought the shots came right from behind him.
4. Mr. Newman said in an interview and in his testimony that he thought the shots came from the shelter behind him.

Your job is to prove either of 1, 2, 3, or 4 wrong.  Prove that these undeniable facts are not true.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 28, 2018, 02:04:58 AM
My job?  What world of distorted reality are you living in?  The key to YOUR position is HARD and CREDIBLE proof. Do you not understand the definition? Indisputable. You people are astounding in your ignorance. Right now, you don?t belong at the table of even serious conspiracy wackos. Embarrassing.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Ross Lidell on November 28, 2018, 02:17:35 AM
My job?  What world of distorted reality are you living in?  The key to YOUR position is HARD and CREDIBLE proof. Do you not understand the definition? Indisputable. You people are astounding in your ignorance. Right now, you don?t belong at the table of even serious conspiracy wackos. Embarrassing.
Be fair Paul: He does deserve to be "under the table".
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 02:23:47 AM
My job?  What world of distorted reality are you living in?  The key to YOUR position is HARD and CREDIBLE proof. Do you not understand the definition? Indisputable. You people are astounding in your ignorance. Right now, you don?t belong at the table of even serious conspiracy wackos. Embarrassing.

You are not proving or disproving anything.  You are just talking.  Similar to a dog barking with no bite.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 28, 2018, 02:32:24 AM
Correct. There is nothing to discuss.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 02:48:24 AM
Correct. There is nothing to discuss.
Apparently so, I thought you would be the person to try to discredit my research.  Unfortunately, I was wrong.  You can't prove or disprove anything, you just know how to base your conclusions based on I don't know what.

How unfortunate.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on November 28, 2018, 03:06:43 AM
1. The Mary Moorman photo shows a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
2. The Nix film shows a smoke trail from a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
3. Mr. Zapruder said in an interview and testimony that he thought the shots came right from behind him.
4. Mr. Newman said in an interview and in his testimony that he thought the shots came from the shelter behind him.

Your job is to prove either of 1, 2, 3, or 4 wrong.  Prove that these undeniable facts are not true.

No that's not how it works. The onus is on you to provide rock solid evidence if you want to claim they are undeniable facts.

OK, over to you; show us your evidence.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 28, 2018, 03:31:48 AM
Research? You jest. If your ?research? determined your conclusions, you need to find a different way to pass your time. The crap you posted has been discredited over 55 years numerous times.  This is but one more example of a wacko CT sticking to his personal favorite theory despite the absence of hard and credible evidence. Do you believe your theory is based on hard, credible evidence?  If yes, explain to the forum members your ?research? proving so.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 04:04:29 AM
Research? You jest. If your ?research? determined your conclusions, you need to find a different way to pass your time. The crap you posted has been discredited over 55 years numerous times.  This is but one more example of a wacko CT sticking to his personal favorite theory despite the absence of hard and credible evidence. Do you believe your theory is based on hard, credible evidence?  If yes, explain to the forum members your ?research? proving so.
Obviously, you want more after you said you have had enough.

Show proof that what I have provided has been discredited over 55 years numerous times.  As I said, a barking dog has no bite.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on November 28, 2018, 04:25:43 AM
Obviously, you want more after you said you have had enough.

Show proof that what I have provided has been discredited over 55 years numerous times.  As I said, a barking dog has no bite.

Keyvan, You've got

NOTHING
ZERO
SWEET FARK ALL

It is YOUR responsibility to back up your claims of undeniable facts. Can you do that?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 28, 2018, 07:49:05 AM
1. The Mary Moorman photo shows a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
2. The Nix film shows a smoke trail from a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
3. Mr. Zapruder said in an interview and testimony that he thought the shots came right from behind him.
4. Mr. Newman said in an interview and in his testimony that he thought the shots came from the shelter behind him.

Your job is to prove either of 1, 2, 3, or 4 wrong.  Prove that these undeniable facts are not true.

#4) Bill Newman: He had no idea where the shot came from.

Here you go:

[Excerpt]

Fagin homed in on how some researchers and authors selectively interpret the Newmans? descriptions of what they heard. The third shot that the Newmans said came from ?behind? them, he pointed out, has been used ?as evidence that you heard a shot from the grassy knoll."

And that?s simply not the case, said Bill Newman.

?It was the visual impact [of the fatal shot] that made me think the shot came down over our head,? he said. ?In all honesty, I have no idea where the shot came from.?---Bill Newman

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news/2012/11/09/couple-who-witnessed-jfk-assassination-recall-infamous-day-the-shots-rang-out
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 12:54:08 PM
#4) Bill Newman: He had no idea where the shot came from.

Here you go:

[Excerpt]

Fagin homed in on how some researchers and authors selectively interpret the Newmans? descriptions of what they heard. The third shot that the Newmans said came from ?behind? them, he pointed out, has been used ?as evidence that you heard a shot from the grassy knoll."

And that?s simply not the case, said Bill Newman.

?It was the visual impact [of the fatal shot] that made me think the shot came down over our head,? he said. ?In all honesty, I have no idea where the shot came from.?---Bill Newman

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news/2012/11/09/couple-who-witnessed-jfk-assassination-recall-infamous-day-the-shots-rang-out

Bill Newman does not discredit his initial thoughts of where he thought his shots came from in this interview that is 49 years after the fact.  He just does not know.  His initial reaction is that the shots came from the shelter.

His initial interview says that the shots came from the shelter and is corroborated by Mr. Zapruder's first interview and Warren Commission testimony.

Mr. Zapruder, in 1966 changed his story and agreed with the Warren Commission findings in this interview.  I don't know why he changed his mind, but his initial interview and testimony is corroborated by Mr. Newman.


There is photographic evidence of a person behind Mr. Zapruder, there is film evidence in the Nix Film of a shot being fired, there are the two initial testimony of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.

There is a photograph that shows what is most likely gunpowder smoke in Dealey Plaza right after the assassination from the San Diego Free Press
(https://i0.wp.com/obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/JFK-assass-smokegrsyknol.jpg)

There is also testimony from law enforcement officers and secret service officers pointing to shots coming from the right front in the Warren Commission - https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pdf/WH18_CE_1024.pdf

Secret Service man - Paul E. Landis - "My immediate thought was that the President could not possibly be alive after being hit like he was. I still am not certain from which direction the second shot came, but my reaction at the time was the shot came from somewhere towards the front right-hand side of the road."

Deputy Sherriff - Harold Elkins - "I immediately ran to the area from which it sounded like the shots had been fired. This is an area between the railroad and the Texas School Book Depository which is east of the railroad."


Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 28, 2018, 03:27:33 PM

(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/newman.gif)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Organ on November 28, 2018, 04:08:11 PM

(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/underpass/wiegmansmoke-lines.jpg)  (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z445.jpg)

"Gunsmoke": Patch of discolored fall foliage. Shows up in post-assassination photos.



Bill Newman's "garden":
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/jfk-final-minutes-05.jpg)  (https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/jfk-final-minutes-06.jpg)

(Line of reddish hedges)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 28, 2018, 05:05:08 PM
Hard photographic in the Mary Moorman photo and video evidence in the Nix film,  plus the initial testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.  It is all there for you to interpret whichever way you want.
Why don't you prove the evidence wrong!  Show supporting information on why the Mary Moorman photo and Nix film evidence is wrong and show evidence that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman never meant to say what they said minutes after the assassination.

     You are Borrowing quite a bit from the Blevins presentations over on You Tube. This would include Blevins having Altered/Colorized the Moorman Photo. Do we really know ALL that he has done to the Moorman Photo? Do NOT rely on Altered Images to corroborate your position/opinion. Blevins is Now claiming that the Babushka Woman was actually Abe Zapruder's wife and she was signaling the shooters in the shelter behind Zapruder with the camera flash attachment on her camera. Choosing to tag-team with someone such as Blevins damages your position/opinion. Using Testimony and Un-Altered Images to proffer an opinion is A-OK. Also employing the props of someone with the track record of Blevins taints all the good research work you have done. 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 05:14:43 PM
     You are Borrowing quite a bit from the Blevins presentations over on You Tube. This would include Blevins having Altered/Colorized the Moorman Photo. Do we really know ALL that he has done to the Moorman Photo? Do NOT rely on Altered Images to corroborate your position/opinion. Blevins is Now claiming that the Babushka Woman was actually Abe Zapruder's wife and she was signaling the shooters in the shelter behind Zapruder with the camera flash attachment on her camera. Choosing to tag-team with someone such as Blevins damages your position/opinion. Using Testimony and Un-Altered Images to proffer an opinion is A-OK. Also employing the props of someone with the track record of Blevins taints all the good research work you have done.

Is using the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News / Today Show altered?  Is using an image of remnant smoke from the shooters guns from a sourced location such as the San Diego Free Press altered?  Stop bringing someone else into the fray with images that are sourced from National sources.

If you have information that can change our opinion on these images and accompanying interviews and testimonies, bring it forward.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 28, 2018, 05:23:24 PM
Is using the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News / Today Show altered?  Is using an image of remnant smoke from the shooters guns from a sourced location such as the San Diego Free Press altered?  Stop bringing someone else into the fray with images that are sourced from National sources.

If you have information that can change our opinion on these images and accompanying interviews and testimonies, bring it forward.

   Are you Denying using the Blevins Colorized Photo to corroborate shooter(s) inside the Shelter behind Zapruder? The use of this Altered Photo taints your other good sources. Buttressing your Smoke Photo with eyewitness Sam Holland would be wise.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 05:37:28 PM
   Are you Denying using the Blevins Colorized Photo to corroborate shooter(s) inside the Shelter behind Zapruder? The use of this Altered Photo taints your other good sources. Buttressing your Smoke Photo with eyewitness Sam Holland would be wise.
I don't know who the colored picture if from, but it corroborates the sourced image of the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News / Today Show.  This image does not taint any other good sources.  But since you bring it up, I am getting a colorization company to make one for me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 28, 2018, 05:47:38 PM
I don't know who the colored picture if from, but it corroborates the sourced image of the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News / Today Show.  This image does not taint any other good sources.  But since you bring it up, I am getting a colorization company to make one for me.

    The colorized Moorman Photo you have posted is the work of Blevins. The shooters inside the Shelter behind Zapruder = an opinion that Blevins has been putting out on You Tube for at least 3+ years. Blevins uses his colorized Moorman Photo to prove his shooters in the shelter opinion. The major problem with this theory is that both Zapruder and Sitzman would have to be part of the assassination to Never have reported rifle fire within mere feet of their Perch Position. Zapruder got $150,000 for his film = a possible pay off IF he were part of the conspiracy. I am unaware of Sitzman ever getting anything/$$$.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 06:02:06 PM
    The colorized Moorman Photo you have posted is the work of Blevins. The shooters inside the Shelter behind Zapruder = an opinion that Blevins has been putting out on You Tube for at least 3+ years. Blevins uses his colorized Moorman Photo to prove his shooters in the shelter opinion. The major problem with this theory is that both Zapruder and Sitzman would have to be part of the assassination to Never have reported rifle fire within mere feet of their Perch Position. Zapruder got $150,000 for his film = a possible pay off IF he were part of the conspiracy. I am unaware of Sitzman ever getting anything/$$$.

As I said, we have sourced information that Zapruder knew the shots came from right behind him in the form of a TV interview minutes right after the assassination and his Warren Commission testimony.  This thread is not about Mr. Blevins or what you think about Mr. Blevins.  This thread is about proof that JFL was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  I have hard evidence that shows a gunman in the pergola "shelter". 

Do you have a comment on this evidence?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 28, 2018, 06:37:50 PM
Know?  How can you possibly know for sure when no hard credible proof of such has come forward in 55 years?  Let?s be reasonable. You may believe he was killed by a conspiracy.  Belief is something one has in the absence of actual evidence.  People believe Bigfoot exists.  Actual evidence?  None.  You?re no different than those people. That?s scary huh?

My dear Mr May....  It's possible to know something without absolute proof....   I know there is a God.... Can I prove it to an atheist?   No probably not.   I know there was a conspiracy to murder President Kennedy and cover up the crime...It doesn't take a genius to see through the smoke and lies.....       
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 06:42:32 PM
My dear Mr May....  It's possible to know something without absolute proof....   I know there is a God.... Can I prove it to an atheist?   No probably not.   I know there was a conspiracy to murder President Kennedy and cover up the crime...It doesn't take a genius to see through the smoke and lies.....       

Strong personal beliefs are not knowing.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 06:44:12 PM
I don't know who the colored picture if from, but it corroborates the sourced image of the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News / Today Show.  This image does not taint any other good sources.  But since you bring it up, I am getting a colorization company to make one for me.

The non colourised/doctored Moorman does not show people in the pergola as far as I can see. Some random blobs have been coloured in, nothing more.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 28, 2018, 06:59:15 PM
Wondering if one of the pergola shooters was over 7ft tall or was he using a step ladder. Are there any images of somebody carrying a small ladder? Wait. Maybe there was another guy in there and the shooter was on his shoulders. Scrub the ladder search.  ::)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 07:19:03 PM
The non colourised/doctored Moorman does not show people in the pergola as far as I can see. Some random blobs have been coloured in, nothing more.

Proof that the Moorman photo from NBC News is doctored instead of just voicing your opinion, or is your opinion all you have?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 07:27:35 PM
Proof that the Moorman photo from NBC News is doctored instead of just voicing your opinion, or is your opinion all you have?

I was referring to the colourised photo as being doctored. The original shows no people in the pergola in my view.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 07:38:13 PM
I was referring to the colourised photo as being doctored. The original shows no people in the pergola in my view.

"You can't force someone to see the truth, just like you can't force a blind man to see." - Marilyn Manson wrote this quote.  It perfectly personifies you.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 07:39:34 PM
"You can't force someone to see the truth, just like you can't force a blind man to see." - Marilyn Manson wrote this quote.  It perfectly personifies you.

In your opinion. Is that all you have?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 07:48:07 PM
In your opinion. Is that all you have?

There is nothing more for me to have.  I have provided the hard evidence that is undeniable that there is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

If you choose to be blind to the truth, there is nothing to talk about.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 07:54:53 PM
There is nothing more for me to have.  I have provided the hard evidence that is undeniable that there is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

If you choose to be blind to the truth, there is nothing to talk about.

No you haven't provided any proof. You have shown a colourised/doctored photograph which attempts to show something not seen in the uncolourised version in my view.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 08:05:26 PM
You choose to be blind.  Nothing I can do.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 08:06:36 PM
I choose to be blind.  Nothing I can do.

Nice of you to admit that.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
Typo - You choose to be blind, nothing I can do.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 08:17:17 PM
Typo - You choose to be blind, nothing I can do.

Yeah, I know.

That's your opinion because you are convinced you see something. Its not a fact, its an opinion so not proof of anything.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 08:27:29 PM
Not an opinion, there is a photograph with a shooter behind Zapruder, there is the Nix film that shows a gunshot with a smoke trail from the same area where a person can be seen in the Mary Moorman photo.  You have Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman stating that they thought the gunshots came from right behind them.  You have police officers in the Warren Commission stating that the shots came from that direction.  You have film evidence of gun smoke floating in the same area.  You have a Senator stating that he smelled gun smoke in the area.

Not my opinion, it is hard and undeniable evidence that there was a shooter from the pergola.

If you choose to be blind and ignorant to these facts, that is your choice.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
Not an opinion, there is a photograph with a shooter behind Zapruder, there is the Nix film that shows a gunshot with a smoke trail from the same area where a person can be seen in the Mary Moorman photo.  You have Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman stating that they thought the gunshots came from right behind them.  You have police officers in the Warren Commission stating that the shots came from that direction.  You have film evidence of gun smoke floating in the same area.  You have a Senator stating that he smelled gun smoke in the area.

Not my opinion, it is hard and undeniable evidence that there was a shooter from the pergola.

If you choose to be blind and ignorant to these facts, that is your choice.

Nope, it is your opinion that the Moorman photo shows a shooter behind Zapruder. It is not a fact no matter how strongly you believe it.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 28, 2018, 08:40:55 PM
As I said, we have sourced information that Zapruder knew the shots came from right behind him in the form of a TV interview minutes right after the assassination and his Warren Commission testimony.  This thread is not about Mr. Blevins or what you think about Mr. Blevins.  This thread is about proof that JFL was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  I have hard evidence that shows a gunman in the pergola "shelter". 

Do you have a comment on this evidence?

      As I pointed out earlier, including the ALTERED Moorman Photo shifts the attention Away from the other evidence you posted. That ALTERED Photo has forced you into a purely Defensive position. Getting away from that Photo will find your conspiracy case having a worthy foundation.
       People in general are pretty fast & loose with their verbiage. When someone says "right behind" they do Not necessarily mean Directly Behind. Zapruder testified as to motorcycle cops being behind him also. Do you think he meant that DPD cops were running around behind him/inside the shelter?  The Willis Black Dog Man Photo gives us a pretty good view/look inside the Shelter behind Zapruder. There are other images showing pretty good looks inside that shelter seconds before the Kill Shot. Nobody is visible inside that Shelter. There could have been people hiding inside there I would guess, but if you were a shooter inside that shelter you certainly would be getting set-up for your shot(s). To believe that a hired Professional Hit Man popped out of that Shelter at the last second or 2 is silly. Sure, it is possible but really Not plausible.
       I do believe your image shows gun smoke. I also believe Holland saw this same smoke and other witnesses up wind from the TSBD smelled that same gun smoke.   
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 08:53:21 PM
Nope, it is your opinion that the Moorman photo shows a shooter behind Zapruder. It is not a fact no matter how strongly you believe it.

Nope, you are blind to the obvious.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 08:55:13 PM
There is no altered Mary Moorman photo.  Do you have proof that it is altered?  Since you keep harping about it, it must be true.  Since it is true, do you have proof that it is altered?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 28, 2018, 09:03:12 PM
Nope, you are blind to the obvious.

In your opinion.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 28, 2018, 09:14:19 PM
There is no altered Mary Moorman photo.  Do you have proof that it is altered?  Since you keep harping about it, it must be true.  Since it is true, do you have proof that it is altered?

    Taking a B/W Image and Colorizing it = ALTERED. Cropping an Image = ALTERED.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 09:17:53 PM
    Taking a B/W Image and Colorizing it = ALTERED. Cropping an Image = ALTERED.

Do you have proof that the image is altered?

You want to see what you want to see.  You cannot help anyone.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 28, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
In your opinion.
I don't have an opinion, just facts.  You have opinions without providing facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 29, 2018, 01:41:38 AM
Strong personal beliefs are not knowing.
How do you know that? Knowledge is defined  by Webster's as...
 
Quote
facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
Knowledge is acquired by an adversarial process. As Walt stated...there is God or there isn't. It is foolish to state that there is no God when no one can possibly demonstrate this. There is climate change [global warming] or there isn't. It is adversely argued that while there may be climate change, it is not caused by people. On the other hand, it can be argued that CFCs, coal, fossil fuel and other pollutants could be doing the atmosphere no benefit at all.
The Warren Commission Report approached the JFK assassination from only one direction. There was no consideration of any conclusion other than Oswald was the sole assassin. It was a blatant choice..extremely obvious and it remains so. Reasonable doubt did not take a back seat in the so called investigation ...it was not even along for the ride. For the authorities to not arrive at the conclusion that it ultimately did [right or wrong] was just simply unacceptable.
 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 04:40:50 AM
How do you know that? Knowledge is defined  by Webster's as...
  Knowledge is acquired by an adversarial process. As Walt stated...there is God or there isn't. It is foolish to state that there is no God when no one can possibly demonstrate this. There is climate change [global warming] or there isn't. It is adversely argued that while there may be climate change, it is not caused by people. On the other hand, it can be argued that CFCs, coal, fossil fuel and other pollutants could be doing the atmosphere no benefit at all.
The Warren Commission Report approached the JFK assassination from only one direction. There was no consideration of any conclusion other than Oswald was the sole assassin. It was a blatant choice..extremely obvious and it remains so. Reasonable doubt did not take a back seat in the so called investigation ...it was not even along for the ride. For the authorities to not arrive at the conclusion that it ultimately did [right or wrong] was just simply unacceptable.

You highlight theoretical so best to say what that word actually means which is, from the Oxford English Dictionary

theoretical
adjective

    1 Concerned with or involving the theory of a subject or area of study rather than its practical application.
    ?a theoretical physicist?
    ?the training is practical rather than theoretical?

    1.1 Based on or calculated through theory rather than experience or practice.
    ?the theoretical value of their work?

Theoretical understanding does not mean a belief. Something being theoretical does not mean it is not based on facts and evidence, its just that the nature of the facts and evidence is different from the case of a practical knowledge.

It is indeed foolish to state there is no God but an atheist doesn't state that - being an atheist means having no belief in God. Not sure what your comments regarding climate change has to do with this. Saying you have no belief in something or see no evidence for something does not mean you have a belief in the non existence of something or that there is evidence for the non existence of something.

Conclusions about climate change should be based on scientific evidence i.e. facts and shouldn't be a matter of belief.

If there is sufficient evidence/facts to support a conclusion then it is no longer a belief, that is true, but the statement 'I know there was a conspiracy to murder President Kennedy and cover up the crime.' is a statement of personal belief not a statement of knowledge. It is not a fact but a belief.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 29, 2018, 04:56:41 AM
Nope, it is your opinion that the Moorman photo shows a shooter behind Zapruder. It is not a fact no matter how strongly you believe it.

It is a fact that Zapruder testified that a shot came from behind him no matter how much you ignore it.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 29, 2018, 04:58:25 AM
In your opinion.

And my opinion.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 05:00:30 AM
It is a fact that Zapruder testified that a shot came from behind him no matter how much you ignore it.

Its a fact that he said he thought it came from behind him. Its not a fact that it did.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 29, 2018, 05:01:08 AM
Bill Newman does not discredit his initial thoughts of where he thought his shots came from in this interview that is 49 years after the fact.  He just does not know.  His initial reaction is that the shots came from the shelter.

His initial interview says that the shots came from the shelter and is corroborated by Mr. Zakpruder's first interview and Warren Commission testimony.

Mr. Zapruder, in 1966 changed his story and agreed with the Warren Commission findings in this interview.  I don't know why he changed his mind, but his initial interview and testimony is corroborated by Mr. Newman.


There is photographic evidence of a person behind Mr. Zapruder, there is film evidence in the Nix Film of a shot being fired, there are the two initial testimony of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.

There is a photograph that shows what is most likely gunpowder smoke in Dealey Plaza right after the assassination from the San Diego Free Press
(https://i0.wp.com/obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/JFK-assass-smokegrsyknol.jpg)

There is also testimony from law enforcement officers and secret service officers pointing to shots coming from the right front in the Warren Commission - https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pdf/WH18_CE_1024.pdf

Secret Service man - Paul E. Landis - "My immediate thought was that the President could not possibly be alive after being hit like he was. I still am not certain from which direction the second shot came, but my reaction at the time was the shot came from somewhere towards the front right-hand side of the road."

Deputy Sherriff - Harold Elkins - "I immediately ran to the area from which it sounded like the shots had been fired. This is an area between the railroad and the Texas School Book Depository which is east of the railroad."

I was addressing point #4 and yet you felt a need to include the other three. Why is that?

As far as Newman goes, he clearly recounts what made him think the shot came from over his head ?It was the visual impact [of the fatal shot] that made me think the shot came down over our head,? he said. ?In all honesty, I have no idea where the shot came from.?---Bill Newman

I'll address your claim of seeing smoke a little later; although Jerry has already shown that the shape your smoke is actually a tree.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 05:02:20 AM
And my opinion.

Who cares. Still an opinion.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
I was addressing point #4 and yet you felt a need to include the other three. Why is that?

As far as Newman goes, he clearly recounts what made him think the shot came from over his head ?It was the visual impact [of the fatal shot] that made me think the shot came down over our head,? he said. ?In all honesty, I have no idea where the shot came from.?---Bill Newman

I'll address your claim of seeing smoke a little later; although Jerry has already shown that the shape your smoke is actually a tree.

Those are your opinions not facts.  You are taking what he said 49 years later as gospel.

Mr. Newman's initial statement on TV (a couple hours after the assassination) is that the shots came from the shelter (pergola).  This is an undeniable fact.  He said so.  It is further validated by Mr. Zapruder's initial statement in the same TV newscast that the bullets came from behind him.  Also an undeniable fact.  The Mary Moorman photo shows someone behind him, an undeniable fact.
The following has been proven: 1. Mr. Zapruder said a shot came from behind him. 2. Mr. Newman said a shot came from the shelter, 3. A person is shown in the Mary Moorman photo behind Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitsman, 4. The Nix film shows a shot being fired from the shelter, and 5. Photographs show clouds of gunsmoke seconds after the assassination.

There is further proof of a shot from the shelter from testimony said in the Warren Commission by police officers and secret service men.

The five points and the statements of the Warren Commission as a collective show strong evidence of a shot from the pergola and thus strong proof that JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

Bill, you clearly show a disdain for facts.  Why is that?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 29, 2018, 03:25:33 PM
'I know there was a conspiracy to murder President Kennedy and cover up the crime.' is a statement of personal belief not a statement of knowledge. It is not a fact but a belief.
A belief that it is a fact. What is the difference? It is obvious to the discerning mind that there was a cover-up and so it is not just a theory.
 
Quote
The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial.
                            Nicholas Katzenbach Asst Attorney General November 25 1963, the day of the Kennedy funeral.       
You may have the last word there Mr Turner, but it probably won't mean too much in the long range scope of things. Cheers
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 03:55:50 PM
Those are your opinions not facts.  You are taking what he said 49 years later as gospel.

Mr. Newman's initial statement on TV (a couple hours after the assassination) is that the shots came from the shelter (pergola).  This is an undeniable fact.  He said so.  It is further validated by Mr. Zapruder's initial statement in the same TV newscast that the bullets came from behind him.  Also an undeniable fact.  The Mary Moorman photo shows someone behind him, an undeniable fact.
The following has been proven: 1. Mr. Zapruder said a shot came from behind him. 2. Mr. Newman said a shot came from the shelter, 3. A person is shown in the Mary Moorman photo behind Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitsman, 4. The Nix film shows a shot being fired from the shelter, and 5. Photographs show clouds of gunsmoke seconds after the assassination.

There is further proof of a shot from the shelter from testimony said in the Warren Commission by police officers and secret service men.

The five points and the statements of the Warren Commission as a collective show strong evidence of a shot from the pergola and thus strong proof that JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

Bill, you clearly show a disdain for facts.  Why is that?

     Are you Positive that Bill Newman SPECIFICALLY said the shot(s) "came from the SHELTER"? Paraphrasing someone and including a Specific Location as you have done is the way Urban Legends get started. I am familiar with Newman generally saying that he thought the shots came from BEHIND him, and he was afraid his family might be in the line-of-fire. I have Never heard him Specify the SHELTER as being the Specific location of a shooter.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 04:13:40 PM
Nomenclature will get you I guess.  He states in his TV interview the shots came from behind.  He further said from the mall on top of the hill.  It still all the same thing, It came from behind him.

Fact is a fact.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
Nomenclature will get you I guess.  He states in his TV interview the shots came from behind.  He further said from the mall on top of the hill.  It still all the same thing, It came from behind him.

Fact is a fact.

A couple of questions.

Were the shots fired from the pergola suppressed?
Are you familiar with sound of firing a weapon from a cement enclosure?

Did any witnesses report seeing a person or people leaving the pergola with their hands over their ears?

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 04:36:11 PM
A couple of questions.

Were the shots fired from the pergola suppressed?
Are you familiar with sound of firing a weapon from a cement enclosure?

Did any witnesses report seeing a person or people leaving the pergola with their hands over their ears?

I have not heard of such.

The closest that I have read and heard is from Lee Bowers on his interview with Mark Lane.  He stated that he saw two men, a flash of light or smoke, the immediate area of the embankment.


Regardless, if you are trying to say that the shots from there would be too loud, I would like for you to show proof instead of your opinion.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 04:57:27 PM
A couple of questions.

Were the shots fired from the pergola suppressed?
Are you familiar with sound of firing a weapon from a cement enclosure?

Did any witnesses report seeing a person or people leaving the pergola with their hands over their ears?

    Heck, allegedly Zapruder and Sitzman eventually went inside that Shelter following the Kill Shot yet there are No Images of both/either of them exiting that shelter or exiting Dealey Plaza. There are Many Missing Images in the cavalierly accepted narrative assigned to the JFK Assassination and its' aftermath.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 29, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
Its a fact that he said he thought it came from behind him. Its not a fact that it did.

If he was the only one to say this then it would be open to debate, but he wasn't. The majority of witnesses in DP said that shots originated where Zapruder said.

You can continue to ignore it, but that won't change that fact.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 29, 2018, 05:15:19 PM
Who cares. Still an opinion.

Says the guy who offers his unsupported opinion all the time. Who cares indeed?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 05:15:33 PM
I have not heard of such.

The closest that I have read and heard is from Lee Bowers on his interview with Mark Lane.  He stated that he saw two men, a flash of light or smoke, the immediate area of the embankment.


Regardless, if you are trying to say that the shots from there would be too loud, I would like for you to show proof instead of your opinion.

How would you like the proof presented to you?
You want charts of data?
A video?
Db levels of firearms both outside and within enclosures such as 12 x 12 rooms/Cement barricades?
How about testimony from former law enforcement personnel with over 1000 hours of shooting firearms?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
How would you like the proof presented to you?
You want charts of data?
A video?
Db levels of firearms both outside and within enclosures such as 12 x 12 rooms/Cement barricades?
How about testimony from former law enforcement personnel with over 1000 hours of shooting firearms?

That is up to you.  Whatever proof you have, it should be comparable to the shelter in the grassy knoll, with similar temperature and similar wind, wind speed, and the bullets and rifles should be the same.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 05:32:42 PM
How would you like the proof presented to you?
You want charts of data?
A video?
Db levels of firearms both outside and within enclosures such as 12 x 12 rooms/Cement barricades?
How about testimony from former law enforcement personnel with over 1000 hours of shooting firearms?

    Bottom line is IF you believe shot(s) were fired from within the Pergola behind Zapruder and Sitzman, both Zapruder and Sitzman would also have to be involved in at least the cover-up. They both would have heard shot(s) fired from within mere feet of them vs Never having reported this. I am Not even going to get into their conduct After allegedly having been within feet of the assassins/fired shots.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
    Bottom line is IF you believe shot(s) were fired from within the Pergola behind Zapruder and Sitzman, both Zapruder and Sitzman would also have to be involved in at least the cover-up. They both would have heard shot(s) fired from within mere feet of them vs Never having reported this. I am Not even going to get into their conduct After allegedly having been within feet of the assassins/fired shots.

Bottom line is I don't believe on anything JFK unless I can see proof.  I see proof of shots being fired from the pergola.  Whether Zapruder or Sitzman are involved, that is a different thread.  I am not concerned about their actions in this thread. 

BTW - Mr. Zapruder did report that he heard shots fired from right behind him.  He reported as such in the form of a TV interview minutes after the assassination and his Warren Commission testimony.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 05:50:32 PM
That is up to you.  Whatever proof you have, it should be comparable to the shelter in the grassy knoll, with similar temperature and similar wind, wind speed, and the bullets and rifles should be the same.

Documented levels of discomfort thresholds occur in decibels at 120 dB
Documented levels of pain thresholds occur in decibels 130 to 140 dB
Within an enclosure eliminates any factor of wind and or wind speed.
The impact is on the shooter.
.22 caliber rifle 130dB
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB.
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB.
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB.
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB. In 18" barrel 163.2dB.
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB.
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB. 26" barrel 150.25dB. 18" barrel 156.30dB.
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB. 22" barrel 154.75dB.
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB. 26" barrel 156.10dB. 18" barrel 161.50dB.
.25 ACP 155.0 dB.
.32 LONG 152.4 dB.
.32 ACP 153.5 dB.
.380 157.7 dB.
9mm 159.8 dB.
.38 S&W 153.5 dB.
.38 Spl 156.3 dB.
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB.
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB.
.44 Spl 155.9 dB.
.45 ACP 157.0 dB.
.45 COLT 154.7 dB.

Facts on noise levels:
1. Decibels measure sound pressure and are logarithmic. That means that only a 3db increase almost doubles sound pressure, a 6db increase quadruples sound pressure, etc.
2. Gradual hearing loss may occur after prolonged exposure to 90 decibels or above.
3. Exposure to 100 decibels for more than 15 minutes can cause hearing loss.
4. Exposure to 110 decibels for more than a minute can cause permanent hearing loss.
5. At 140 dBA noise causes immediate injury to almost any unprotected ear.
6. There is also the more extreme ?acoustic trauma?, which is an immediate loss of hearing after a sudden, exceptionally loud noise such as an explosion.

Your fakakta video of Bowers in no way addressed the questions I raised regarding the impact on the shooter(s).

So either your shooter(s) had a suppressed firearm , was wearing hearing protection or nobody fired anything from the pergola as per that phony doctored up Moorman photo that you proffered up as evidence showed.

In addition , with 30 years experience in Law Enforcement, I guarantee you if anybody fired an unsuppressed firearm or was not wearing ear protection they would have been on their knees in excruciating pain or rolling around the grassy knoll clutching their ears.





 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 06:11:20 PM
You have never been so wrong in your life.

1) Are you stating that Mr. Zapruder, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
2) Are you stating that Mr. Newman, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
3) Are you stating that the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News is a fake?  NBC News is in a conspiracy to provide fake images from Mary Moorman.
4) Are you stating that the Nix Film has been altered to show gunshots from the very place that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said they heard shots from and the Mary Moreman photo shows a man standing there?
If you believe that 1-4 are fabricated, that is your opinion, show proof that they are fabricated.

5) What type of enclosure are those guns fired in?  Are they fired in an open pergola similar to the one at the grassy knoll?  Can you share in this forum the type of enclosure being used and certify that those tests were done in that enclosure?

6) I don't know, and I suppose you don't know if the gunmen did wear any type of protection unless you have proof that states otherwise.  I know that when I went shooting with my police officer friends, we ware ear protection at the gun range.

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 06:32:39 PM
You have never been so wrong in your life.

1) Are you stating that Mr. Zapruder, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
2) Are you stating that Mr. Newman, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
3) Are you stating that the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News is a fake?  NBC News is in a conspiracy to provide fake images from Mary Moorman.
4) Are you stating that the Nix Film has been altered to show gunshots from the very place that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said they heard shots from and the Mary Moreman photo shows a man standing there?
If you believe that 1-4 are fabricated, that is your opinion, show proof that they are fabricated.

5) What type of enclosure are those guns fired in?  Are they fired in an open pergola similar to the one at the grassy knoll?  Can you share in this forum the type of enclosure being used and certify that those tests were done in that enclosure?

You have never been so wrong in your life.
 ;) oh boy.

1) Are you stating that Mr. Zapruder, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
Where did I mention Zapruder?
2) Are you stating that Mr. Newman, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
Where did I mention Newman?
3) Are you stating that the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News is a fake?  NBC News is in a conspiracy to provide fake images from Mary Moorman.
No , but that colorized POS with the insinuated human forms is pure crap.
4) Are you stating that the Nix Film has been altered to show gunshots from the very place that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said they heard shots from and the Mary Moreman photo shows a man standing there?
Did I mention Nix?
If you believe that 1-4 are fabricated, that is your opinion, show proof that they are fabricated.
So your opinions have more weight than my opinions? I'm speaking about real life professional experience. All this other kook speak is you playing detective then offering up your inexperienced opinion.
5) What type of enclosure are those guns fired in?  Are they fired in an open pergola similar to the one at the grassy knoll?  Can you share in this forum the type of enclosure being used and certify that those tests were done in that enclosure?
See the answer to number 4.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 06:43:39 PM
You have never been so wrong in your life.
 ;) oh boy.

1) Are you stating that Mr. Zapruder, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
Where did I mention Zapruder?
2) Are you stating that Mr. Newman, who was there and stated that a shot came from behind him is wrong?
Where did I mention Newman?
3) Are you stating that the Mary Moorman photo from NBC News is a fake?  NBC News is in a conspiracy to provide fake images from Mary Moorman.
No , but that colorized POS with the insinuated human forms is pure crap.
4) Are you stating that the Nix Film has been altered to show gunshots from the very place that Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said they heard shots from and the Mary Moreman photo shows a man standing there?
Did I mention Nix?
If you believe that 1-4 are fabricated, that is your opinion, show proof that they are fabricated.
So your opinions have more weight than my opinions? I'm speaking about real life professional experience. All this other kook speak is you playing detective then offering up your inexperienced opinion.
5) What type of enclosure are those guns fired in?  Are they fired in an open pergola similar to the one at the grassy knoll?  Can you share in this forum the type of enclosure being used and certify that those tests were done in that enclosure?
See the answer to number 4.

"So either your shooter(s) had a suppressed firearm , was wearing hearing protection or nobody fired anything from the pergola as per that phony doctored up Moorman photo that you proffered up as evidence showed." - These are your words, not mine, what else could you be insinuating here?  If you are talking about the colored portion of the picture, show proof that it is different from the original besides that fact that it is colorized.  Who are you kidding, you are just basing your conclusion on your opinion.  Show proof!

You have 30 years experience, act like it! - Just cause you are consumed with another belief does not mean it is so.

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 06:57:25 PM
"So either your shooter(s) had a suppressed firearm , was wearing hearing protection or nobody fired anything from the pergola as per that phony doctored up Moorman photo that you proffered up as evidence showed." - These are your words, not mine, what else could you be insinuating here?  If you are talking about the colored portion of the picture, show proof that it is different from the original besides that fact that it is colorized.  Who are you kidding, you are just basing your conclusion on your opinion.  Show proof!

You have 30 years experience, act like it! - Just cause you are consumed with another belief does not mean it is so.

If you are talking about the colored portion of the picture, show proof that it is different from the original besides that fact that it is colorized.  Who are you kidding, you are just basing your conclusion on your opinion.

No I'm basing my opinion on experience with shooting firearms. Your presenting crap from Blevins that is supported by that lunatic of lunatics Ralph Cinque. Your credibility is in question. You're silly.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 07:00:06 PM
A belief that it is a fact. What is the difference? It is obvious to the discerning mind that there was a cover-up and so it is not just a theory.
                             Nicholas Katzenbach Asst Attorney General November 25 1963, the day of the Kennedy funeral.       
You may have the last word there Mr Turner, but it probably won't mean too much in the long range scope of things. Cheers

You don't see a difference between a belief and a fact?  Surprised.

By the way, the phrase 'just a theory' is misleading. A theory is not a guess but a model which explains observations supported by evidence and which can be tested.

I have I think there was an attempt to cover up mistakes that were made in the lead up to the assassination but wouldn't say I know that to be true.

Cheers to you
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 07:03:31 PM
Says the guy who offers his unsupported opinion all the time. Who cares indeed?

My point is, which you have clearly missed, is that I and others are expressing opinions. I don't claim them to be facts unlike some.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 29, 2018, 07:04:55 PM
If he was the only one to say this then it would be open to debate, but he wasn't. The majority of witnesses in DP said that shots originated where Zapruder said.

Could you give a citation which shows this to be true please.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 07:07:53 PM
If you are talking about the colored portion of the picture, show proof that it is different from the original besides that fact that it is colorized.  Who are you kidding, you are just basing your conclusion on your opinion.

No I'm basing my opinion on experience with shooting firearms. Your presenting crap from Blevins that is supported by that lunatic of lunatics Ralph Cinque. Your credibility is in question. You're silly.

Since you have 30-years law enforcement experience, give me a nationally respected crime lab that I can use to analyze the Mary Moorman picture.

P.S. - I am not presenting anything from anyone else.  The facts are the facts, and you have not debunked this fact.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 07:18:28 PM
Bottom line is I don't believe on anything JFK unless I can see proof.  I see proof of shots being fired from the pergola.  Whether Zapruder or Sitzman are involved, that is a different thread.  I am not concerned about their actions in this thread. 

BTW - Mr. Zapruder did report that he heard shots fired from right behind him.  He reported as such in the form of a TV interview minutes after the assassination and his Warren Commission testimony.

    You claim to want PROOF, and now You are misquoting Abe Zapruder right after You misquoted Bill Newman. Zapruder did Not say he heard shots fired from "RIGHT Behind Him". Zapruder did WC Testify to DPD motorcycle cops being Right behind him, but he did Not claim the shots fired were "RIGHT Behind Him" during his WC Testimony or during his TV Interview shortly after the assassination.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 07:27:02 PM
Since you have 30-years law enforcement experience, give me a nationally respected crime lab that I can use to analyze the Mary Moorman picture.

P.S. - I am not presenting anything from anyone else.  The facts are the facts, and you have not debunked this fact.

Fact?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 07:29:53 PM
    You claim to want PROOF, and now You are misquoting Abe Zapruder right after You misquoted Bill Newman. Zapruder did Not say he heard shots fired from "RIGHT Behind Him". Zapruder did WC Testify to DPD motorcycle cops being Right behind him, but he did Not claim the shots fired were "RIGHT Behind Him".

Go in circles all you want.  He said he was in direct line of fire to paraphrase him in his TV interview and his Warren Commission testimony he stated:
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm

"I also thought it came from back of me." - Abraham Zapruder.

Fact is fact, get used to it.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 07:31:03 PM
Fact?

What is a respected crime lab that I can use?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 07:33:28 PM
Bottom line is I don't believe on anything JFK unless I can see proof.  I see proof of shots being fired from the pergola.  Whether Zapruder or Sitzman are involved, that is a different thread.  I am not concerned about their actions in this thread. 

BTW - Mr. Zapruder did report that he heard shots fired from right behind him.  He reported as such in the form of a TV interview minutes after the assassination and his Warren Commission testimony.

    Bump regarding YOU claiming, "Mr Zapruder did report that he heard shots fired from RIGHT BEHIND HIM".  Of course this claim of Yours = FALSE
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 07:40:22 PM
    Bump regarding YOU claiming, "Mr Zapruder did report that he heard shots fired from RIGHT BEHIND HIM".  Of course this claim of Yours = FALSE

Trolling......
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 29, 2018, 07:42:27 PM
It is a fact that Zapruder testified that a shot came from behind him no matter how much you ignore it.

It's a fact that Zapruder did not conclude that he knew where the shot came from, no matter how much you want to ignore the influences of others in the heat of the moment.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 29, 2018, 07:50:12 PM
Trolling......

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 08:09:28 PM
Facts are facts... You can try to change the facts whichever way you want, that does not make it so.

In the TV interview minutes after the JFK assassination, he said he thought he was in the line of fire, to paraphrase him.  In his Warren Commission testimony, he stated that they came from behind him, to paraphrase him.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 29, 2018, 08:21:06 PM
Facts are facts... You can try to change the facts whichever way you want, that does not make it so.

In the TV interview minutes after the JFK assassination, he said he thought he was in the line of fire, to paraphrase him.  In his Warren Commission testimony, he stated that they came from behind him, to paraphrase him.

    Though You might Not be aware of it, we do agree on several issues regarding the assassination. You need to clean up your loose verbiage. We get newbees looking in on this Forum quite often and they might take what you are saying as being statements of Fact. I believe your intentions are good, but your loose Quotations of Key Players/Eyewitnesses demean whatever point you are attempting to make.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 08:21:58 PM
What is a respected crime lab that I can use?

https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 08:26:04 PM
A private one, the FBI will not talk to me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 08:29:38 PM
A private one, the FBI will not talk to me.

That's what you think.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 29, 2018, 08:32:26 PM
Facts are facts... You can try to change the facts whichever way you want, that does not make it so.

In the TV interview minutes after the JFK assassination, he said he thought he was in the line of fire, to paraphrase him.  In his Warren Commission testimony, he stated that they came from behind him, to paraphrase him.

Lner's like Chappie often refer to the testimonies of the witnesses.  Those testimonials were often quite different and in many cases in direct conflict with what the witness said on the day of the coup d e'tat.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 08:34:33 PM
That's what you think.

Why don't you submit the image to the FBI and ask them if there is someone behind Zapruder?  And to colorize the image?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 08:36:55 PM
Lner's like Chappie often refer to the testimonies of the witnesses.  Those testimonials were often quite different and in many cases in direct conflict with what the witness said on the day of the coup d e'tat.

He can't be a Lner anymore with this proof.  Chappie, you will accept the truth, won't you?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 29, 2018, 08:44:34 PM
Why don't you submit the image to the FBI and ask them if there is someone behind Zapruder?  And to colorize the image?

Why don't you post the colorized version of Moorman and we'll take the forum members honest assessment of how exaggerated your perceived human forms are inside the pergola.

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat.

Why their heads are twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them.


A simple eyeball test.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 08:50:29 PM
Why don't you post the colorized version of Moorman and we'll take the forum members honest assessment of how exaggerated your perceived human forms are inside the pergola.

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat.

Why their heads are twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them.


A simple eyeball test.

You are reverting to opinions.  We need facts.

Let's get a private crime lab to tell us facts?


Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: John Mytton on November 29, 2018, 08:55:30 PM
Zapruder and the Newmans in their first day interviews describe a head explosion exactly as seen in Zapruder's film which shows matter going forward and away from Oswald's rifle and this same wound location is seen in the Autopsy photos and the Xrays. Why is this still even being discussed?

(https://i.postimg.cc/NG53ppNy/Dealey-Plaza-Eyewitnesses2-zpsc1d78c8b.gif)

Kennedy's head moves forward.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jS1DG8HD/z31234l-1.gif)

The back of Kennedy's head shows a bullet entrance.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

Besides the total absurdity of having a shooter out in full 360? public view who could be easily seen or photographed by a plethora of cameras in Dealey Plaza, then you try to setup a Patsy who was directly behind and 6 stories up? If it was me then I would pepper the upper floors of the buildings behind with snipers but putting a sniper in front or wherever at ground level in full view of anyone who cared to look is totally illogical and simply would never happen.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MpR3gLRT/Dealey-Plaza-aerial.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 09:08:15 PM
Zapruder and the Newmans in their first day interviews describe a head explosion exactly as seen in Zapruder's film which shows matter going forward and away from Oswald's rifle and this same wound location is seen in the Autopsy photos and the Xrays. Why is this still even being discussed?
...
Besides the total absurdity of having a shooter out in full 360? public view who could be easily seen or photographed by a plethora of cameras in Dealey Plaza, then you try to setup a Patsy who was directly behind and 6 stories up? If it was me then I would pepper the upper floors of the buildings behind with snipers but putting a sniper in front or wherever at ground level in full view of anyone who cared to look is totally illogical and simply would never happen.

JohnM

Opinions and more opinions coming from you.

Show me facts and debunk this undeniable evidence that there is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on November 29, 2018, 09:44:18 PM
Opinions and more opinions coming from you.

Show me facts and debunk this undeniable evidence that there is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

You are spinning like a top. You haven't advanced your argument even one inch since your original post. You are the one making ridiculous claims so how about you produce your evidence. You have nothing but wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
You are spinning like a top. You haven't advanced your argument even one inch since your original post. You are the one making ridiculous claims so how about you produce your evidence. You have nothing but wishful thinking.

Funny, now try to debunk the truth.

You don't like facts.  Why?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Martin Weidmann on November 29, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
Zapruder and the Newmans in their first day interviews describe a head explosion exactly as seen in Zapruder's film which shows matter going forward and away from Oswald's rifle and this same wound location is seen in the Autopsy photos and the Xrays. Why is this still even being discussed?

(https://i.postimg.cc/NG53ppNy/Dealey-Plaza-Eyewitnesses2-zpsc1d78c8b.gif)

Kennedy's head moves forward.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jS1DG8HD/z31234l-1.gif)

The back of Kennedy's head shows a bullet entrance.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

Besides the total absurdity of having a shooter out in full 360? public view who could be easily seen or photographed by a plethora of cameras in Dealey Plaza, then you try to setup a Patsy who was directly behind and 6 stories up? If it was me then I would pepper the upper floors of the buildings behind with snipers but putting a sniper in front or wherever at ground level in full view of anyone who cared to look is totally illogical and simply would never happen.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MpR3gLRT/Dealey-Plaza-aerial.jpg)

JohnM

putting a sniper in front or wherever at ground level in full view of anyone who cared to look is totally illogical

Just how many people do you think would care to look elsewhere when the President is passing by?

Something which appears totally illogical could well be a good way to proceed simply because it's deemed to be illogical!

Just a thought...
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 29, 2018, 11:12:10 PM
A private one, the FBI will not talk to me.

Gee, I wonder why?

Homeland Security and the FBI keep track of crackpots like you... but don't worry; Trumpty-Dumpty will pardon you. Not so sure about Duncan though.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 29, 2018, 11:20:26 PM
Gee, I wonder why?

Homeland Security and the FBI keep track of crackpots like you... but don't worry; Trumpty-Dumpty will pardon you. Not so sure about Duncan though.

So Chappy, do you like the facts?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 29, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
Quote
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me.
As close as the codless shmoe came to owning up.
Mytton's graphics might just illustrate that Kennedy was shot in the head twice explaining the pa-pow that some claim they heard.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 29, 2018, 11:39:25 PM
He can't be a Lner anymore with this proof.  Chappie, you will accept the truth, won't you?

What truth are you referring to?   That the gun that killed Kennedy was in front of him?   I've always believed that one of the guns was on the GK......
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 01:40:53 AM
As close as the codless shmoe came to owning up.
Mytton's graphics might just illustrate that Kennedy was shot in the head twice explaining the pa-pow that some claim they heard.

The JFK skull X-Ray shows a bullet entering the rear of his head.  Dr. Humes states that the entry bullet is lower and to the right of the occipital protuberance.  That would be a magic bullet if it could come out the top of the skull when the bullet enters at a downward angle.  But that is another thread.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 30, 2018, 01:54:20 AM
 Thumb1:
Why don't you submit the image to the FBI and ask them if there is someone behind Zapruder?  And to colorize the image?

What do you think is being done when the image is being colourised exactly? Are you assuming that the colourised Moorman image you posted earlier has been done in a way which brings out hidden details? I assume that this is why you keep referring to the presence of shooters behind Zapruder as being a fact. I can colourise an image on Photoshop by painting onto the image with a colour brush and produce the same result so how has that image you posted been produced?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 30, 2018, 02:04:03 AM
My point is, which you have clearly missed, is that I and others are expressing opinions. I don't claim them to be facts unlike some.

I got the point. ALL you do is express opinions. You never cite any evidence to support your opinions, and yet, you constantly call out people who believe that a conspiracy took place.

Why don't you start using the evidence?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 30, 2018, 02:10:56 AM
Could you give a citation which shows this to be true please.

Sure. Unlike you I use the evidence. In my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series I did a six posts like this. Here is the first one.

***********************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) said there were ONLY three shots fired by Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) and that they came from the eastern sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and NOWHERE else.

Really? Then why did these folks say otherwise?


********************************************


Bill Shelley

Mr. BALL - What did you hear?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together.

Mr. BALL - And then?

Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't think anything about it.

Mr. BALL - What did it sound like to you?

Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud.

Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then?

Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute.

Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound?

Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west.

Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

So he said he thought the shots came from the west (Grassy Knoll (GK) area).  How can that be when the WC said the ONLY shots came from right over his head in the TSBD?

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Yes.

Mr. SHELLEY - That little, old side street runs in front of our building and Elm Street.

Mr. BALL - It dead ends?

Mr. SHELLEY - There's concrete between the two streets.

Mr. BALL - Elm Street dead ends there just beyond the building, doesn't it?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, that's also Elm that goes under the triple underpass.

Mr. BALL - That is Elm that goes under the triple underpass?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.

Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.

Here we see confirmation of the fact cops ran to the GK area, NOT the TSBD.  WC defenders like to deny this all the time. Look at this.

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Why would they be going into the TSBD? Well the WC and its defenders say to find the man who shot the bullets at JFK?s limousine, but read this.

Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.

Three to four minutes? Why did cops run towards the GK area (Shelley and Lovelady too) almost as soon as the shots stopped, but it took up to four minutes for Baker to go into the TSBD? IF the shots were heard from there shouldn?t we have seen cops run in there almost immediately? I would think so.

Come to think of it he did NOT even see Truly and the cop go into the TSBD!


Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.

So all we have is his opinion they were ?fixin? to go in?, but we don?t know if they did right then or not, thus, the time could be way more than four minutes before they entered and this ruins the whole laid out plan the WC created for Baker and Truly meeting LHO.  This too hurts their claim.

Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.

Mr. BALL - Were they running?

Mr. SHELLEY - That, I couldn't swear to; there were so many people around.

The WC had to have Baker running to fit the timeframe for his meeting LHO in the lunchroom, but here we see a
witness say they could NOT say they were running.


Dorothy Garner

If you go to Commission Exhibit (CE) 1381, page 648, you will read the following statement from here:

Quote on

On November 22, 1963, at the moment of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, I was seated at a desk in the fourth floor offices of Scott, Foresman, and Company and I was watching the Presidential Motorcade through a window located on the south side of the Texas School Book Depository building and I know this window to be the fifth window from the east end of the building. I recall that Mrs. Elsie Dorman was sitting next to me at that time looking out sixth window and that Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles were both standing next to Mrs. Dorman and myself looking out both the fifth and sixth windows?I heard three loud reports which I first thought to be fireworks but only seconds later realized something had happened on the street below although at the time of the shots, the Presidential car was out of view behind a tree.  I thought at the time the shots or reports came from a point to the west of the building.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0339b.htm

Quote off

For the record, Ms. Garner was NOT called before the WC.  Why not?  Well it would seem she said a couple of things that did NOT jive with the WC?s conclusion.  First of all, she said she thought the shots came from WEST of the building (GK). That is not good for the WC.  She also made this interesting comment, ??but only seconds later realized something had happened on the street below although at the time of the shots, the Presidential car was out of view behind a tree.?  She is clearly saying the shots were being fired while the Presidential car was BEHIND THE VIEW OF THE TREE! How could LHO be firing if the limo was behind the view of a tree? He could be of course, but he couldn?t hope to hit anything.  Even the WC judged he would NOT fire when a ?clear shot was soon viable? to him. This is further proof someone else was shooting at the limo.

Virgie Baker

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear?

Mrs. BAKER. Three.

Mr. LIEBELER When did you first become aware that they were shots?

Mrs. BAKER. With the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any idea where they were coming from?

Mrs. BAKER. Well, the way it sounded--it sounded like it was coming from-- there was a railroad track that runs behind the building--there directly behind the building and around, so I guess it would be by the underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza--the little thing there I guess you call it a plaza-back behind there this other girl and I almost ran back over there and looked and we didn't see anything.

She thought the shots came from the triple underpass area which is next to the Grassy Knoll (GK).

Mr. LIEBELER. After you heard the shots, you ran down the little street that runs in front of the School Book
Depository?

Mrs. BAKER. Along the grass.

Mr. LIEBELER. Along the grass--alongside there, running toward the triple underpass where Elm Street goes, but
you were actually running down the little street or alongside the street on the grass, alongside the street that runs
right in front of the Texas School Book Depository?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. And you say there are some railroad tracks back in there; is that right?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. Immediately behind Dealey Plaza away from Elm Street?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. And is that where you thought the shots came from?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Here is another witness that did NOT say they thought the shots came from the TSBD.  There are many more and we will look at some of them in the next post in this series.  How can the WC, and its defenders, believe shots ONLY came from one source when so many others disagree (and they were in the plaza)? By using the standard WC trump card of course ? they were all MISTAKEN.

We again see evidence that disputes the claims of the WC, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 30, 2018, 02:11:45 AM
I got the point. ALL you do is express opinions. You never cite any evidence to support your opinions, and yet, you constantly call out people who believe that a conspiracy took place.

Why don't you start using the evidence?

I have explained this before to you and don't intend doing so again. I'll post how I choose and you accept that or not. I really don't mind because I'm not seeking your approval.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 30, 2018, 02:14:50 AM
Sure. Unlike you I use the evidence. In my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series I did a six posts like this. Here is the first one.

***********************************************


The question was could you show evidence to support your statement that the majority of witnesses in DP said that shots originated where Zapruder said. I accept that some people said they thought that but was it a majority?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 30, 2018, 02:59:36 AM
It's a fact that Zapruder did not conclude that he knew where the shot came from, no matter how much you want to ignore the influences of others in the heat of the moment.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.

You missed this.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset. Naturally, I couldn't imagine such a thing being done. I just went to my desk and stopped there until the police came and then we were required to get a place to develop the films. I knew I had something, I figured it might be of some help--I didn't know what.

As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.

Mr. LIEBELER - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - After the shots?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 30, 2018, 03:06:41 AM
I have explained this before to you and don't intend doing so again. I'll post how I choose and you accept that or not. I really don't mind because I'm not seeking your approval.

So you just come here to espouse your opinion which is NOT based on the evidence. Good of you admit it.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 30, 2018, 03:10:36 AM
The question was could you show evidence to support your statement that the majority of witnesses in DP said that shots originated where Zapruder said. I accept that some people said they thought that but was it a majority?

Some people? Nearly two-thirds of those asked said that the shots came from the GK area. In the full six parts there are a lot, but unfortunately because of LNers whining the series is no longer on the board.

I gave you three people who support Zapruder. What have you given? Nothing as usual.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset. Naturally, I couldn't imagine such a thing being done. I just went to my desk and stopped there until the police came and then we were required to get a place to develop the films. I knew I had something, I figured it might be of some help--I didn't know what.

As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.

Mr. LIEBELER - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - After the shots?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 30, 2018, 03:18:01 AM
In reality it just might take a genius as in 55 years no hard credible evidence has come forward. Believe what you wish but a belief exists when evidence does not.  That?s a fact.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 30, 2018, 03:21:25 AM
Facts?  You offer one more conspiracy amongst thousands unsupported. Are you claiming what you are offering is indisputable?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 30, 2018, 03:23:33 AM
Citation?  I dare you.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Paul May on November 30, 2018, 03:27:45 AM
Undeniable evidence? You need to learn what evidence actually is.  This entire thread is a joke.  55 years and the conspiracy ?community? is still pushing this kind of crap.  Remarkable.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 12:40:02 PM
Undeniable evidence? You need to learn what evidence actually is.  This entire thread is a joke.  55 years and the conspiracy ?community? is still pushing this kind of crap.  Remarkable.

Debunk this?  It is hard evidence.  Instead of giving your opinion, give facts and debunk this if you can.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on November 30, 2018, 07:01:40 PM
Why don't you post the colorized version of Moorman and we'll take the forum members honest assessment of how exaggerated your perceived human forms are inside the pergola.

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat.

Why their heads are twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them.


A simple eyeball test.

Your colored Moorman photo.

Ok let's not bother the forum members. How about you answering these two questions:

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat?

Why their heads are twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them?

The reason I'm asking is because you've done all the research and all. I know you must have the original specs of the pergolas to answer these buzzing gnat type questions.

Then after you swat away these questions with your facts explain how in the Betzner and Willis photos taken seconds before your colorized photo there isn't a hint of any human in that pavilion. Just looking to see if you have any clue as to how they got in there and where they came from.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 08:11:52 PM
    The colorized Moorman Pic is Leroy Blevins work & His theory as to the positioning of shooters inside the shelter behind Zapruder.  Blevins has been pushing his Shelter Shooters theory for better than 2 years that I know of. Recently, he has added to his Shelter Shooters by claiming the Babushka Woman is actually Zapruder's wife and she gives the shooters inside the shelter the "Go" signal by flashing her camera's flash bulb attachment. He also claims that film images reveal Sitzman using her hands to cover Zapruder's ears immediately after the "flash/go" signal is given.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 30, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Just want all of you to be aware of the photographic, film, and written testimony evidence that is out there.

Mr. Zapruder's testimony

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm

Testimony Of Abraham Zapruder. The testimony of Abraham Zapruder was taken at 1 p.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.


https://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abraham-zapruder-film/zapruder-interview-transcript/

Zapruder Interview Transcript - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza - The Sixth Floor Museum - The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey PlazaThe Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza | The Sixth Floor Museum


Here is Mr. Bill Newman's testimony:

Q: How many shots did you hear?

A: I heard at least three. I often thought of four, but I can't clearly say there were four shots; I can clearly say there were three.

Q: Do you have any impression as to the direction from which the shots came?

 A: Yes, sir. From the sound of the shots, the report of the rifle or whatever it was, it sounded like they were coming directly behind from where I was standing.

Q: Now would you push the microphone aside and step down to the aerial photograph and identify that general area, just the general area from which the sounds came.

A: In my opinion, the sounds of the shots sounded as if they had come from directly behind me (indicating). I was standing near this light standard here, and I thought the shots were coming from back here, and apparently, everybody else did because they all ran in that direction.

http://www.jfk-online.com/wnewmanshaw.html


Mary Moorman photo - NBC source -

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/streams/2013/November/131115/2D9692239-today-moorman-polaroid-jfk-assassination-131114-tz.fit-760w.jpg)

JFK 'grassy knoll' photo fails to sell at auction - TODAY.com
A pivotal piece of American history went on sale Friday morning ? but did not sell. The item ? a Polaroid photo snapped in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, the day of President John F. Kennedy?s ...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)

Look in the shelter, there are people there to the back of Mr. Zapruder.

Nix
Film -
Look at the shelter around the 5-second mark. A shot is fired from the third window and there is another shot fired from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.

Play the video in slow motion, you will see a shot from the third window and a smoke trail from the walkway behind Mr. Zapruder. -

How to view the video is slow motion -
In Mr. Zapruder's original statements, he thought he was in the direct line of fire, the shots came from behind him.
In Mr. Newman's original statements, he thought the shots came from the pergola.

This information is hard to grasp, but there is no denying the truth of photographic and film evidence.  I am not asking you to change your opinion, I just want you to know the truth.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)

Look in the shelter, there are people there to the back of Mr. Zapruder.

I believe that there is a man behind Zapruder and Sitzman... The man appears to the camera left of Z &S, and he maybe wearing blue jeans and a shirt with the sleeves rolled up on his forearms.....his right side is behind the concrete support for the roof of the structure.   He appears to be wearing sunglasses .... But the photo is so fuzzy and hard to see that I wouldn't bet on the details....  I do not see "people" ( plural) in the area to the rear of Z&S.... 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 08:28:04 PM
    Walt- We do Not know everything that has possibly been done to this Colorized Moorman Pic. Why are you buying into a Theory which is based on what we Know is an Altered Image?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 08:36:16 PM
    Walt- We do Not know everything that has possibly been done to this Colorized Moorman Pic. Why are you buying into a Theory which is based on what we Know is an Altered Image?

There you go again with your opinions.  Show proof of what you said.  If the Altgen image has been modified, show proof.  Where do you get all these conspiratorial theories from?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 08:43:34 PM
Your colored Moorman photo.

Ok let's not bother the forum members. How about you answering these two questions:

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat?

Why their heads are twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them?

The reason I'm asking is because you've done all the research and all. I know you must have the original specs of the pergolas to answer these buzzing gnat type questions.

Then after you swat away these questions with your facts explain how in the Betzner and Willis photos taken seconds before your colorized photo there isn't a hint of any human in that pavilion. Just looking to see if you have any clue as to how they got in there and where they came from.

You are asking me to answer your opinions.  It is very simple, the Mary Moorman photo shows that there is a person begins Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman stated that they believed the shots came behind them.  The Nix Film shows shots fired from that location.  There is testimony from Police Officers and Secret Service men in the Warren Commission about shots coming from that area.  There is film evidence of smoke floating in the area.

The above is proven by photo, film, interview, and testimony from 1st hand sources. 

Accept the truth, it is as simple as that.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 30, 2018, 08:46:39 PM
    Walt- We do Not know everything that has possibly been done to this Colorized Moorman Pic. Why are you buying into a Theory which is based on what we Know is an Altered Image?

Royell, I'm not "buying into" anything.... I'm merely relating what I see in the photo....  And IMO the man does not appear to be doing anything sinister, with the possible exception that he certainly isn't standing in full view.   His entire right side is behind the concrete support column.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
There you go again with your opinions.  Show proof of what you said.  If the Altgen image has been modified, show proof.  Where do you get all these conspiratorial theories from?

    Who said anything about an ALTGENS Image?  Blevins colorized the MOORMAN Pic. This is Altering an image by definition.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
    Who said anything about an ALTGENS Image?  Blevins colorized the MOORMAN Pic. This is Altering an image by definition.

Let's be honest, you are trying to correct yourself after you said that the colorized Moorman photo has been altered because it is altered.  You are trying to believe that and are having a hard time.  What in the colorized version is different from the NBC News copy of the Moorman photo beside the fact that it is colored?

You are spreading conspiracies theory when you speak that way.  Show proof.  Fact is fact, that is what has been presented.  If you want to debunk this, do so with facts, not opinions.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on November 30, 2018, 09:27:46 PM
There's nothing that amuses me more than watching an argument within the conspiracy crowd. They make the Keystone Cops look like a highly organized crime busting outfit.

Keep up the great work guys.   Thumb1:
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 09:37:07 PM
Let's be honest, you are trying to correct yourself after you said that the colorized Moorman photo has been altered because it is altered.  You are trying to believe that and are having a hard time.  What in the colorized version is different from the NBC News copy of the Moorman photo beside the fact that it is colored?

You are spreading conspiracies theory when you speak that way.  Show proof.  Fact is fact, that is what has been presented.  If you want to debunk this, do so with facts, not opinions.

    The Moorman Photo is a B/W Photo. Colorizing that Photo makes it ALTERED by definition. This is Not complicated. And again,  what does Altgens have to do with this discussion?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 09:40:27 PM
    The Moorman Photo is a B/W Photo. Colorizing that Photo makes it ALTERED by definition. This is Not complicated. And again,  what does Altgens have to do with this discussion?

Altgens - altered - almost the same thing.

Stop spreading conspiracy theories that the colored Moorman photo is different from the NBC News copy.  It is not!
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: John Mytton on November 30, 2018, 09:46:15 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXgJ626j/moorman-c.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5t0HT8h7/faces-ambushedbuilding-zps9cd34cd0-1.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 09:46:26 PM
Let's be honest, you are trying to correct yourself after you said that the colorized Moorman photo has been altered because it is altered.  You are trying to believe that and are having a hard time.  What in the colorized version is different from the NBC News copy of the Moorman photo beside the fact that it is colored?

You are spreading conspiracies theory when you speak that way.  Show proof.  Fact is fact, that is what has been presented.  If you want to debunk this, do so with facts, not opinions.

       What you have posted above is "Who's On 1st ?" worthy. 1st you inadvertently reference Altgens, and now the nonsensical gibberish above. Slow yourself down and think things through.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on November 30, 2018, 09:48:38 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXgJ626j/moorman-c.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5t0HT8h7/faces-ambushedbuilding-zps9cd34cd0-1.jpg)

JohnM

    John - The least you could do is put some X-Mas lights around that shelter entrance.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: John Mytton on November 30, 2018, 09:51:11 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBH2m4st/0b0a2387c179f0ffe7309eab357af432-86e16536-411d-49f9-bdfa-dad711e.png)
https://demos.algorithmia.com/colorize-photos/

JohnM
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 10:19:28 PM
       What you have posted above is "Who's On 1st ?" worthy. 1st you inadvertently reference Altgens, and now the nonsensical gibberish above. Slow yourself down and think things through.

Funny, at least you are not spreading your false conspiracy theories anymore.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 30, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
There's nothing that amuses me more than watching an argument within the conspiracy crowd. They make the Keystone Cops look like a highly organized crime busting outfit.

Keep up the great work guys.   Thumb1:

One can always expect a great deal of (unintentional) mirth from these rank amateurs at CT Comedy Central.

In this particular instance, apparently perspective and proper size relationships (Re placement of people in a scene) don't matter in the CT Twilight Zone.

In that vein, the guy apparently in sun glasses--- let's call him 'StumpyMan'-- has a noggin on him at least twice the size of Sitzman/Zap heads. Additionally, the giant to our left--- let me suggest 'Saskquatch' as an arguably accurate descriptive moniker, given the massive watermelon-sized gourd which dwarfs even that of StumpyMan.

Sluggo's 'truths' basically go up in smoke (so-to-speak) and in more ways than one.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on November 30, 2018, 11:26:54 PM
One can always expect a great deal of (unintentional) mirth from these rank amateurs at CT Comedy Central.

In this particular instance, apparently perspective and proper size relationships (Re placement of people in a scene) don't matter in the CT Twilight Zone.

In that vein, the guy apparently in sun glasses--- let's call him 'StumpyMan'-- has a noggin on him at least twice the size of Sitzman/Zap heads. Additionally, the giant to our left--- let me suggest 'Saskquatch' as an arguably accurate descriptive moniker, given the massive watermelon-sized gourd which dwarfs even that of StumpyMan.

Sluggo's 'truths' basically go up in smoke (so-to-speak) and in more ways than one.

You are pushing conspiracy theories with your opinions of what you think is going on in the picture.  How about show proof.  Facts, you have heard of it. 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: John Mytton on December 01, 2018, 12:35:50 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLDvfZTt/moorman-rec1.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qxf1svwm/4b8eefcc143db3a427601a8537e61d9a.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Joe Elliott on December 01, 2018, 01:38:46 PM
Know?  How can you possibly know for sure when no hard credible proof of such has come forward in 55 years?  Let?s be reasonable. You may believe he was killed by a conspiracy.  Belief is something one has in the absence of actual evidence.  People believe Bigfoot exists.  Actual evidence?  None.  You?re no different than those people. That?s scary huh?
1. The Mary Moorman photo shows a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
2. The Nix film shows a smoke trail from a person behind Mr. Zapruder.
3. Mr. Zapruder said in an interview and testimony that he thought the shots came right from behind him.
4. Mr. Newman said in an interview and in his testimony that he thought the shots came from the shelter behind him.

Your job is to prove either of 1, 2, 3, or 4 wrong.  Prove that these undeniable facts are not true.
On each of these 4 points the evidence of Bigfoot is more convincing than for the evidence of Bigfoot. More convincing until one contemplates the existence of an animal that always avoids being shot or run over or even leaving being a few hairs, like all other real animals do, over a wide area, decade after decade.

If one believes in the JFK assassination conspiracy, one should feel no embarrassment over believing in Bigfoot or UFOs.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 03:49:09 PM
On each of these 4 points the evidence of Bigfoot is more convincing than for the evidence of Bigfoot. More convincing until one contemplates the existence of an animal that always avoids being shot or run over or even leaving being a few hairs, like all other real animals do, over a wide area, decade after decade.

If one believes in the JFK assassination conspiracy, one should feel no embarrassment over believing in Bigfoot or UFOs.

Joe, Joe, Joe - You are a conspiracy theorist without any proof.  Show your proof instead of spewing worthless innuendoes.  Where is the proof?  You just put your worthless opinions out there against hard evidence in photo, film, interview, and testimony.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Joe Elliott on December 01, 2018, 04:00:51 PM
Keyvan, Keyvan, Keyvan. You speak falsehoods. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all.

Does the Nix film really show more proof of conspiracy than the Patterson film of Bigfoot? Does not Moorman photograph show more proof of conspiracy than various still pictures of Bigfoot? My point is, the evidence of a JFK assassination conspiracy does not even rise to the level of the very dubious evidence of Bigfoot.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 04:17:37 PM
Keyvan, Keyvan, Keyvan. You speak falsehoods. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all.

Does the Nix film really show more proof of conspiracy than the Patterson film of Bigfoot? Does not Moorman photograph show more proof of conspiracy than various still pictures of Bigfoot? My point is, the evidence of a JFK assassination conspiracy does not even rise to the level of the very dubious evidence of Bigfoot.

Not true Joe.  The Nix film shows shots fired from the pergola.  The Moorman photo shows a person standing behind Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said that they thought the shots came from right behind them.  There is film right after the assassination with what seems to be guns smoke floating around.  Police Officers and Secret Services men have testimony in the Warren Commission stating that they thought the shot came from the shelter.

Facts are facts.  You talking about Bigfoot is nothing more but your attempt at discrediting fact.

You have a problem with facts.  Why?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 01, 2018, 04:56:06 PM
You are pushing conspiracy theories with your opinions of what you think is going on in the picture.  How about show proof.  Facts, you have heard of it.

The proof is revealed by eye. No conspiracy required: Just knowledge of perspective. Or just the realization that as a figure moves further back in the picture plane, it diminishes in size.

JohnM's combo now/then pergola image shows the man in the now-pergola on the far right (in black shirt/blue pants/black shoes/proper skin tone) in proper perspective in relation to Sitzman/Zapruder. Additionally, the demonstrated floor level of the pergola clearly reveals the need of either a talent for levitation or access to ladders on the part of your giant-headed shooters.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 05:00:45 PM
If there's a conspiracy regarding the population of the pergola, blame Mother Nature

The proof is revealed by eye. No conspiracy required: Just knowledge of perspective. Or just the realization that as a figure moves further back in the picture plane, it diminishes it size.

JohnM's combo now/then pergola image shows the man in the now-pergola on the far right (in black shirt/blue pants/black shoes) in proper perspective in relation to Sitzman/Zapruder. Additionally, the demonstrated floor level of the pergola clearly reveals the need of either a talent for levitation or access to ladders on the part of your giant-headed shooters.

You are pushing more conspiracy theories.  Show proof.  You objectifying what you see with your eye is not proof.  Fact is fact.  If you have a problem with these facts, show actual proof that is fact, Chappie!  Blame mother nature, really!
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 05:07:43 PM
You are asking me to answer your opinions.  It is very simple, the Mary Moorman photo shows that there is a person begins Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman stated that they believed the shots came behind them.  The Nix Film shows shots fired from that location.  There is testimony from Police Officers and Secret Service men in the Warren Commission about shots coming from that area.  There is film evidence of smoke floating in the area.

The above is proven by photo, film, interview, and testimony from 1st hand sources. 

Accept the truth, it is as simple as that.

Oh I've accepted the truth.
Here's the facts:
1. You can't answer my questions.
2. You've been exposed as a Trash Peddler
3. You don't know the actual meaning of what research is.

If you want any more truth , give me a holler.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 01, 2018, 05:08:55 PM
You are pushing more conspiracy theories.  Show proof.  You objectifying what you see with your eye is not proof.  Fact is fact.  If you have a problem with these facts, show actual proof that is fact, Chappie!  Blame mother nature, really!

'Mother Nature' re the laws thereof
'God' if you prefer

How are the laws of nature a conspiracy theory

You have addressed neither the technical demonstration from JohnM regarding the floor level, nor the giant head sizes of your heavily-tanned shooters
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Rob Caprio on December 01, 2018, 05:19:24 PM
I can't remember where I read it years ago, but it said that there was a manhole inside the concrete structure.

Can anyone who has been there confirm or deny this? Thanks.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 05:35:35 PM
Oh I've accepted the truth.
Here's the facts:
1. You can't answer my questions.
2. You've been exposed as a Trash Peddler
3. You don't know the actual meaning of what research is.

If you want any more truth , give me a holler.

Keep up the distractions from the undeniable facts.  You are a peddler of opinions that make no sense.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 05:42:03 PM
Keep up the distractions from the undeniable facts.  You are a peddler of opinions that make no sense.

Run away Fraud.

You have no facts.

You have trash.

Grow a set and answer the questions.

C'mon Mr. Researcher.


Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
'Mother Nature' re the laws thereof
'God' if you prefer

How are the laws of nature a conspiracy theory

You have addressed neither the technical demonstration from JohnM regarding the floor level, nor the giant head sizes of your heavily-tanned shooters

I see that you modified your answer.  Why?

How about you show a technical demonstration regarding the floor level, and you show proof of the giant head sizes of the heavily-tanned shooters.  You are discussing that somehow an NBC News copy of the Mary Moorman picture is showing giant heads, well, show proof that is the fact.  Your perspective is worthless here, a proof is not.

Why do you have a problem with facts?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 05:52:31 PM
Run away Fraud.

You have no facts.

You have trash.

Grow a set and answer the questions.

C'mon Mr. Researcher.


Ha ha ha!  You can't take the truth!  Why can't you accept facts?  It does not conform to your truth?

"Fraud includes the pretense of knowledge when knowledge there is none." - Benjamin Nathan Cardozo.

You, sir, have no knowledge and you are a fraud if I ever read about one.

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 05:54:20 PM

Ha ha ha!  You can't take the truth!  Why can't you accept facts?  It does not conform to your truth?

"Fraud includes the pretense of knowledge when knowledge there is none." - Benjamin Nathan Cardozo.

You, sir, have no knowledge and you are a fraud if I ever read about one.

How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat?

Why are their heads twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them?

The reason I'm asking is because you've done all the research and all. I know you must have the original specs of the pergolas to answer these buzzing gnat type questions.

Then after you swat away these questions with your facts explain how in the Betzner and Willis photos taken seconds before your colorized photo there isn't a hint of any human in that pavilion. Just looking to see if you have any clue as to how they got in there and where they came from.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 05:59:22 PM
How tall is the guy peering out of the top open slat?

Why are their heads twice the size of Zapruders and Sitzmans even though their 12 feet behind them?

The reason I'm asking is because you've done all the research and all. I know you must have the original specs of the pergolas to answer these buzzing gnat type questions.

Then after you swat away these questions with your facts explain how in the Betzner and Willis photos taken seconds before your colorized photo there isn't a hint of any human in that pavilion. Just looking to see if you have any clue as to how they got in there and where they came from.

Again, those are questions that you have.  You need to answer them, not me.  All I know is that shots were fired from there from the photo, film, interview, and testimonies.  You want answers to those questions, it is up to you to find out, not me.  All I know is where the factual evidence that I can see takes me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 06:06:54 PM
Again, those are questions that you have.  You need to answer them, not me.  All I know is that shots were fired from there from the photo, film, interview, and testimonies.  You want answers to those questions, it is up to you to find out, not me.  All I know is where the factual evidence that I can see takes me.

That's it run away. Keep running. Don't trip on that tail between your legs. The least you could do is to install one of these when you back up to unload your trash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=0JH825sGa44
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 01, 2018, 06:08:51 PM
I can't remember where I read it years ago, but it said that there was a manhole inside the concrete structure.

Can anyone who has been there confirm or deny this? Thanks.

I doubt that there would be a manhole inside the pergola.....   But even if there were... Are you suggesting that a gunman escaped through a manhole?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 06:32:59 PM
That's it run away. Keep running. Don't trip on that tail between your legs. The least you could do is to install one of these when you back up to unload your trash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=0JH825sGa44

"The hated man is the result of his hater's pride rather than his hater's conscience." - Criss Jami

I guess your pride is hurt!  Learn to accept the truth and you will be a better person.

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 01, 2018, 06:35:49 PM
I see that you modified your answer.  Why?

How about you show a technical demonstration regarding the floor level, and you show proof of the giant head sizes of the heavily-tanned shooters.  You are discussing that somehow an NBC News copy of the Mary Moorman picture is showing giant heads, well, show proof that is the fact.  Your perspective is worthless here, a proof is not.

Why do you have a problem with facts?

I have a problem with the facts you lot ignore.

Clearly, your home-schooling has failed you.

I edit in order to clarify what I mean.... and you clearly didn't get the obvious (to educated folks, at least) reference first around. The laws of nature, So I spelled it out for you... clearly what you need to have applied to your other claims.

The only B/W Moorman photos I've seen show no figure or head. Just shadows and blobs of congealed pixels.

The colourized version presented here shows the sudden appearance of two giant-sized sunburnt noggins. Explain that, Sherlock.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 06:53:08 PM
Clearly your home-schooling has failed you.

I edit in order to clarify what I mean.... and you clearly didn't get the obvious (to educated folks, at least) reference first around. So I spelled it out for you... clearly what you need to have applied to your other claims.

The only B/W Moorman photo I've seen shows no figure or head. Just blobs of congealed pixels.

The colourized version presented here shows the sudden appearance of two giant-sized sunburnt noggins.

Sorry, never been homeschooled.  Wrong again.

Sorry, the B/W Moorman photo shows a man behind Zapruder.  - Wrong again.

What problem do you have with facts?

The B/W Moorman photo shows a man behind Mr. Zapruder.  The Nix film shows a shot being fired from the exact place where there is a man in the behind Mr. Zapruder in the B/W Moorman photo.  The interviews and testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman said the shots came from the exact place where there is a man behind Mr. Zapruder in the B/W Moorman photo.  Warren Commission testimony from Police Officers and Secret Service men state that shots came from the pergola.

Facts are facts and you are refusing to allow facts to guide you here.  Why do you dislike facts so much?

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
"The hated man is the result of his hater's pride rather than his hater's conscience." - Criss Jami

I guess your pride is hurt!  Learn to accept the truth and you will be a better person.

No answers to simple questions.

?Fear of ridicule begets the worst cowardice.?
― Andr? Gide
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 07:53:16 PM
No answers to simple questions.

?Fear of ridicule begets the worst cowardice.?
― Andr? Gide

Simple questions that you should research and get the answer.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 08:17:01 PM
Simple questions that you should research and get the answer.
Trust me I've "researched" . I have the original specs of the pergolas. You're all wet. A fraud . You've been peddling this trash on here since March. You should be ashamed of yourself. You can't answer the questions because you're inept at best or you know the answers which proves you're a fraud.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 08:26:11 PM
Trust me I've "researched" . I have the original specs of the pergolas. You're all wet. A fraud . You've been peddling this trash on here since March. You should be ashamed of yourself. You can't answer the questions because you're inept at best or you know the answers which proves you're a fraud.

Oh, so you have "researched".  You have the specs of the pergolas.
It is time that you share your "research" with us here. 

Put up or shut up.  What are the specs of the pergolas?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 08:34:17 PM
Oh, so you have "researched".  You have the specs of the pergolas.
It is time that you share your "research" with us here. 

Put up or shut up.  What are the specs of the pergolas?

Just as I said , you're inept at best. Do your own research. Fraud.

If anybody wants them , PM me.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Just as I said , you're inept at best. Do your own research. Fraud.

If anybody wants them , PM me.

Ha ha ha!  You don't want to share?

Whoever PM's Steve, PM me afterward with his research.  Feel free to write that you won't send me the information, but send it to me anyways.

Just because you can't handle the truth, does not make you right.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 08:50:12 PM
Ha ha ha!  You don't want to share?

Whoever PM's Steve, PM me afterward with his research.  Feel free to write that you won't send me the information, but send it to me anyways.

Just because you can't handle the truth, does not make you right.

I'm 100% sure this place will accept you. You probably qualify for a scholarship.

https://www.clowninstitute.com/clown-college.html
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 08:56:36 PM
I'm 100% sure this place will accept you. You probably qualify for a scholarship.

https://www.clowninstitute.com/clown-college.html

Fact is fact, all your childish remarks won't change the truth, JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
Fact is fact, all your childish remarks won't change the truth, JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Who is debating whether Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy? Nice trick attempting to pull away from the task you failed at. All I asked you was two questions. Pal, I've interrogated the scum of the earth. Your tactics are minor league.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 09:50:47 PM
Who is debating whether Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy? Nice trick attempting to pull away from the task you failed at. All I asked you was two questions. Pal, I've interrogated the scum of the earth. Your tactics are minor league.

And I have told you, do your own research for your questions.  It will make you smarter.

Look at the thread on the subject, this thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  You want to prove otherwise, bring evidence that shows what I have shown in wrong.  You have not.

All you have done is state your opinions, ask for additional research, and thrown insults.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 10:29:55 PM
And I have told you, do your own research for your questions.  It will make you smarter.

Look at the thread on the subject, this thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  You want to prove otherwise, bring evidence that shows what I have shown in wrong.  You have not.

All you have done is state your opinions, ask for additional research, and thrown insults.

Are you as dense as you portray to be? One last time , answer the questions put to you or STFU. You posted trash from Blevins , you were called on it, you were shown how much of a fraud you are, you were asked three simple questions. You refuse to answer a single one and you keep repeating the same regurgitated response. Stop being a coward.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 10:44:01 PM
Are you as dense as you portray to be? One last time , answer the questions put to you or STFU. You posted trash from Blevins , you were called on it, you were shown how much of a fraud you are, you were asked three simple questions. You refuse to answer a single one and you keep repeating the same regurgitated response. Stop being a coward.

You don't want to accept the truth and you are asking questions that you should research yourself. 

I am not posting anything from anyone else.  I am posting information that I have researched.  You want answers to your questions, research them and let everyone here know your findings.

The only fraud is you that refuses to share the 'research' you have done about the pergola and you keep throwing insults at me because what I have shared here does not agree with your findings.  Come clean and accept the truth.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 01, 2018, 10:52:00 PM
You don't want to accept the truth and you are asking questions that you should research yourself. 

I am not posting anything from anyone else.  I am posting information that I have researched.  You want answers to your questions, research them and let everyone here know your findings.

The only fraud is you that refuses to share the 'research' you have done about the pergola and you keep throwing insults at me because what I have shared here does not agree with your findings.  Come clean and accept the truth.

Pretty pathetic. Your OP was kind of funny . Now you shun all inquiries about your keen detective work  :D . As I've said before your evasive tactics are really lame. I'll leave you alone now . I never made fun of the kids on the small school bus, I'm too old to start now. Later, fraud.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 01, 2018, 11:16:07 PM
Pretty pathetic. Your OP was kind of funny . Now you shun all inquiries about your keen detective work  :D . As I've said before your evasive tactics are really lame. I'll leave you alone now . I never made fun of the kids on small school bus, I'm too old to start now. Later, fraud.

The truth is funny to a guy like you.  There is nothing evasive, you want answers to questions that you or someone else needs to research.
The subject of this thread is "Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy."  You have something to add, show proof, not your opinions.

Facts are facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 02, 2018, 12:34:42 AM
Again, those are questions that you have.  You need to answer them, not me.  All I know is that shots were fired from there from the photo, film, interview, and testimonies.  You want answers to those questions, it is up to you to find out, not me.  All I know is where the factual evidence that I can see takes me.

Show us where Zap confirmed that shots definitely came from behind. You lot are quick to cherrypick while ignoring the rest of the Zapruder testimony: In short, he assumed those people and the cop running up the knoll knew where the shots came from.

Until you can provide cited information that anyone else but the prime suspect knew there was to be an attempt made on Kennedy that day, by all means post it.

Otherwise, you are doing nothing but blowing smoke.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 02:55:29 AM

..... you are doing nothing but blowing smoke.
Yeah, Keyvan Shahrdar ...go back and find that smoking gun--that is 55 years old and now that everybody's dead :-[
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 03:18:33 AM
Yeah, Keyvan Shahrdar ...go back and find that smoking gun--that is 55 years old and now that everybody's dead :-[
He, like you, like all other CTers have had up to 55 years to show the smoking gun. It's a bit rich to suggest that because people are dying (of old age related issues) it makes the case harder to prove when there's been no proof during the 55 years anyway. There's not even general agreement between CTers on what the conspiracy involved. Was it CIA, SS, FBI, Big Oil, The Family, the Russians, the Cubans? The only person in the whole of the USA who has been ruled out is Oswald. That fixation that he wasn't knowingly involved is what trips CTers up at every turn.

I'd like to hear from a CTer who says that Oswald was deeply and knowingly involved but that he was just one player in a conspiracy. That might stimulate an interesting discussion.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 03:29:15 AM
He, like you, like all other CTers .......
Stop right there. I am a skeptic. Find one post where I claim any conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 04:00:29 AM
Stop right there. I am a skeptic. Find one post where I claim any conspiracy theory.

My impression was that you subscribe to many theories and the pet theory at any particular time is whatever takes your fancy. If you are a skeptic it would be interesting to know what is it you are skeptical about.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 04:07:42 AM
Show us where Zap confirmed that shots definitely came from behind. You lot are quick to cherrypick while ignoring the rest of the Zapruder testimony: In short, he assumed those people and the cop running up the knoll knew where the shots came from.

Until you can provide cited information that anyone else but the prime suspect knew there was to be an attempt made on Kennedy that day, by all means post it.

Otherwise, you are doing nothing but blowing smoke.

Chappy - There is no cherry picking, you know it.  His WC testimony states it and so does his TV interview.   You know it.

Fact is fact, why do you have a problem with facts?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 04:09:12 AM
Yeah, Keyvan Shahrdar ...go back and find that smoking gun--that is 55 years old and now that everybody's dead :-[
And what are you trying to say?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 04:11:47 AM
He, like you, like all other CTers have had up to 55 years to show the smoking gun. It's a bit rich to suggest that because people are dying (of old age related issues) it makes the case harder to prove when there's been no proof during the 55 years anyway. There's not even general agreement between CTers on what the conspiracy involved. Was it CIA, SS, FBI, Big Oil, The Family, the Russians, the Cubans? The only person in the whole of the USA who has been ruled out is Oswald. That fixation that he wasn't knowingly involved is what trips CTers up at every turn.

I'd like to hear from a CTer who says that Oswald was deeply and knowingly involved but that he was just one player in a conspiracy. That might stimulate an interesting discussion.

Steve, this thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  I showed you proof.  What are you trying to say?

Do you like to read facts about the assassination of JFK?  If you do, this thread is for you.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 04:35:06 AM
Steve, this thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  I showed you proof.  What are you trying to say?

Do you like to read facts about the assassination of JFK?  If you do, this thread is for you.


Go peddle you BS somewhere else. Surely there's a JFK For Juniors forum you could start up.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 02, 2018, 03:08:45 PM

Go peddle you BS somewhere else. Surely there's a JFK For Juniors forum you could start up.

    I do Not blame him for wanting to avoid being Tar Babied to the entire Blevins Theory. Problem is, when he posts the Blevins Colorized/Altered Moorman Photo he then must also accept the Babushka Lady nonsense that comes with it.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 03:15:50 PM

Go peddle you BS somewhere else. Surely there's a JFK For Juniors forum you could start up.

I am peddling fact and fact.

Do you have a problem with facts?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 03:17:32 PM
    I do Not blame him for wanting to avoid being Tar Babied to the entire Blevins Theory. Problem is, when he posts the Blevins Colorized/Altered Moorman Photo he then must also accept the Babushka Lady nonsense that comes with it.

Accept the facts Royell.  JFK was shot at from the Pergola.  There is a fact to back it up.

You have a problem with facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 02, 2018, 03:33:17 PM
Accept the facts Royell.  JFK was shot at from the Pergola.  There is a fact to back it up.

You have a problem with facts.

    Shots being fired from inside the Shelter would then also indict Zapruder and Sitzman as being involved in at least a cover-up. Zapruder received $150K for his film = a possible remuneration for his Not reporting alleged rifle fire coming from mere feet behind him. What Evidence is there that Sitzman ever received anything for Not reporting alleged rifle fire coming from just feet behind her? 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 03:51:22 PM
    Shots being fired from inside the Shelter would then also indict Zapruder and Sitzman as being involved in at least a cover-up. Zapruder received $150K for his film = a possible remuneration for his Not reporting alleged rifle fire coming from mere feet behind him. What Evidence is there that Sitzman ever received anything for Not reporting alleged rifle fire coming from just feet behind her?

You are a conspiracy theorist.  If you have a conspiracy to peddle, start your own thread.  This thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  There is hard undeniable evidence that proves so.  Again, there is a man behind Zapruder in the Mary Moorman photo, eyewitness interviews and testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman state the shots came from behind them.  The Nix film shows shots fired from behind Mr. Zapruder.  There is WC testimony from Secret Service men and Police officers that shots came from the pergola.

Fact is fact, and that is what readers have been presented herewith.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 02, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
You are a conspiracy theorist.  If you have a conspiracy to peddle, start your own thread.  This thread is about proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.  There is hard undeniable evidence that proves so.  Again, there is a man behind Zapruder in the Mary Moorman photo, eyewitness interviews and testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman state the shots came from behind them.  The Nix film shows shots fired from behind Mr. Zapruder.  There is WC testimony from Secret Service men and Police officers that shots came from the pergola.

Fact is fact, and that is what readers have been presented herewith.

    Alleged shots coming "from the PERGOLA" are NOT corroboration of your contention that shots were fired Specifically from Inside The SHELTER directly behind Zapruder and Sitzman. Very simple
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
    Alleged shots coming "from the PERGOLA" are NOT corroboration of your contention that shots were fired Specifically from Inside The SHELTER directly behind Zapruder and Sitzman. Very simple

Facts are facts.  They cannot be changed.  Their testimony is further validated by the Mary Moorman photo and the Nix film.  Facts are facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 02, 2018, 04:56:13 PM
Facts are facts.  They cannot be changed.  Their testimony is further validated by the Mary Moorman photo and the Nix film.  Facts are facts.

   The above is Non-Responsive regarding the vast difference between the PERGOLA vs SHELTER locations.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 02, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
Accept the facts Royell.  JFK was shot at from the Pergola.  There is a fact to back it up.

You have a problem with facts.

Are any of the wounds on the victims compatible  with a shot from the Pergola?  ....  I don't think so.... 

I do believe that JFK was caught in a crossfire and two or three shoots were fired from behind the stockade fence, But the Pergola seems to be be too far to the right hand side of the Lincoln to be the location of a sniper.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 05:00:36 PM
   The above is Non-Responsive regarding the vast difference between the PERGOLA vs SHELTER locations.

You can call it whatever you want.  Facts are facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 05:03:31 PM
Are any of the wounds on the victims compatible  with a shot from the Pergola?  ....  I don't think so.... 

I do believe that JFK was caught in a crossfire and two or three shoots were fired from behind the stockade fence, But the Pergola seems to be be too far to the right hand side of the Lincoln to be the location of a sniper.

You are stating your opinion on whether any of the wounds on the victims are compatible with a shot from the pergola.  This is another thread.  All I know is that JFK was shot at from the pergola, that is what the undeniable facts state.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 05:52:55 PM
My impression was that you subscribe to many theories...
You are not a very good impressionist.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 06:01:25 PM

Go peddle you BS somewhere else. Surely there's a JFK For Juniors forum you could start up.
Steve Howsley...Let's draw the line at demanding a member leave the forum just because you disagree with them. I mean who would you have to argue with?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 06:07:44 PM
And what are you trying to say?
   You understand Howsley's posts but didn't mine? He just enjoined you to the leave the forum.... and I just stuck up for you. Go figure ::)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 07:42:41 PM
   You understand Howsley's posts but didn't mine? He just enjoined you to the leave the forum.... and I just stuck up for you. Go figure ::)
Jerry, you wrote "Yeah, Keyvan Shahrdar ...go back and find that smoking gun--that is 55 years old and now that everybody's dead :-["

There is no question there.  It is like you made a statement.

Are you trying to add that for 55 years, nobody found this and now all of a sudden this is found? 

My reply would be, there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that proves the fact that shots were fired from the pergola.  I don't know why this has not been brought up 55-years ago.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 07:42:59 PM
Steve Howsley...Let's draw the line at demanding a member leave the forum just because you disagree with them. I mean who would you have to argue with?
I haven't demanded anything. I'm in no position to do so.

Please tell us more about your position as a skeptic as you stated yesterday.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 09:29:09 PM
 
Posted by: Steve Howsley
? on: Today at 07:42:59 PM ?
Quote
I haven't demanded anything.
Really? Start reviewing what you post.
Posted by: Steve Howsley link=topic=1416.msg38388#msg38388 date=1543725306]
Quote
Go peddle you BS somewhere else. 
Seems like direct instruction to go away to me.
 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 09:41:22 PM

Posted by: Steve Howsley
? on: Today at 07:42:59 PM ? Really? Start reviewing what you post.
Posted by: Steve Howsley link=topic=1416.msg38388#msg38388 date=1543725306] Seems like direct instruction to go away to me.
 

So if I say to you "Tell me why you consider yourself to be a skeptic?" I am demanding something of you?   

Consider it a request. I can't demand a thing around here. Only Duncan can do that.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 09:47:36 PM
My reply would be, there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that proves the fact that shots were fired from the pergola.  I don't know why this has not been brought up 55-years ago.

The reply should be...
...there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that indicates a shot or shots were probably fired from behind the wooden fence on the Grassy Knoll. It was brought up the day of the assassination. It was also confirmed [rather half-heartedly] by the House Committee in 1978.
By now you should know that there are people here who close their eyes ..put their hands over their ears ...stick their head in the sand and sense everything else with their backside.
 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 02, 2018, 09:52:54 PM
Stop right there. I am a skeptic.

I am curious. What is it you are skeptical of?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 02, 2018, 10:08:14 PM

The reply should be...
...there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that indicates a shot or shots were probably fired from behind the wooden fence on the Grassy Knoll. It was brought up the day of the assassination. It was also confirmed [rather half-heartedly] by the House Committee in 1978.
By now you should know that there are people here who close their eyes ..put their hands over their ears ...stick their head in the sand and sense everything else with their backside.

Show us the film evidence and testimony that proves that any shots other than from SN were fired that day.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 02, 2018, 10:11:27 PM
I am curious. What is it you are skeptical of?

The same thing every conspiracist on the planet is: Science.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 10:14:12 PM

The reply should be...
...there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that indicates a shot or shots were probably fired from behind the wooden fence on the Grassy Knoll. It was brought up the day of the assassination. It was also confirmed [rather half-heartedly] by the House Committee in 1978.
By now you should know that there are people here who close their eyes ..put their hands over their ears ...stick their head in the sand and sense everything else with their backside.

No, the reply should be the shots came from the pergola.  Facts are facts.  It is undeniable fact.  You have the Mooreman photo that shows a person behind Mr. Zapruder, you have the Nix film with shots being fired from the exact place where the person is seen behind Mr. Zapruder.  You have interviews and testimonies from Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman stating that it came from the pergola.

Facts are facts, they are undeniable.  You seem to have a problem with facts and the truth.  Why?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 02, 2018, 10:26:48 PM
  You seem to have a problem with facts and the truth.  Why?
Tell you what...I'm going to turn you back over to Chapman and Howsley you guys all deserve each other. You will again all ask me why? And I will reply now...you just do.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 02, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
Tell you what...I'm going to turn you back over to Chapman and Howsley you guys all deserve each other. You will again all ask me why? And I will reply now...you just do.

Because we disagree with you. Poor baby. So put-upon. Boo boo.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 10:36:56 PM
Tell you what...I'm going to turn you back over to Chapman and Howsley you guys all deserve each other. You will again all ask me why? And I will reply now...you just do.

Why are you upset?  You believe the shots came from behind the fence on the grassy knoll when the facts are undeniable that the shots came from the pergola.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Oscar Navarro on December 02, 2018, 10:48:13 PM

The reply should be...
...there is film and photographic evidence as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people from 55-years ago that indicates a shot or shots were probably fired from behind the wooden fence on the Grassy Knoll. It was brought up the day of the assassination. It was also confirmed [rather half-heartedly] by the House Committee in 1978.
By now you should know that there are people here who close their eyes ..put their hands over their ears ...stick their head in the sand and sense everything else with their backside.

In order to conform to what is regarded in the western world as a person who can function within acceptable norms of behavior the reply should be...

According to some nutcakes and fruitloops there is film and photographic evidence, as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people 55 years ago that indicate that a shot (or shots) were probably fired from places other than the 6th floor SE corner window of the TSBD. Acoustics test done at the later stages of the HSCA investigations that indicated a shot was fired (but missed) from behind a wooden fence in the Grassy Knoll was accepted by a close majority of the conspiracy minded panelist who wrote the final report. This misguided acoustic report led to the HSCA concluding that there probably was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK but could find no connection that led directly to the man the HSCA agreed fired three shots from the snipers nest in the TSBD, Lee Harvey Oswald. This acoustic report the majority of the tin foil hat wearering members of the HSCA panel was soon discredited by a real scientific analysis done by a "distinguished panel of tweleve scientist" for the National Academy of Sciences. The Ramsey Panel (named after the panels chairman, professor Norman Ramsey of Harvard) concluded that the HSCA was way off base and should be ashamed for an eternity for accepting such a flawed report as that provided by Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy and for concluding that motorcycle policeman H. B. McLain's motorcycle microphone had been the source Weiss and Aschkenasy had based their study on.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 02, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
In order to conform to what is regarded in the western world as a person who can function within acceptable norms of behavior the reply should be...

According to some nutcakes and fruitloops there is film and photographic evidence, as well as supporting interviews and testimonies from people 55 years ago that indicate that a shot (or shots) were probably fired from places other than the 6th floor SE corner window of the TSBD. Acoustics test done at the later stages of the HSCA investigations that indicated a shot was fired (but missed) from behind a wooden fence in the Grassy Knoll was accepted by a close majority of the conspiracy minded panelist who wrote the final report. This misguided acoustic report led to the HSCA concluding that there probably was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK but could find no connection that led directly to the man the HSCA agreed fired three shots from the snipers nest in the TSBD, Lee Harvey Oswald. This acoustic report the majority of the tin foil hat wearering members of the HSCA panel was soon discredited by a real scientific analysis done by a "distinguished panel of tweleve scientist" for the National Academy of Sciences. The Ramsey Panel (named after the panels chairman, professor Norman Ramsey of Harvard) concluded that the HSCA was way off base and should be ashamed for an eternity for accepting such a flawed report as that provided by Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy and for concluding that motorcycle policeman H. B. McLain's motorcycle microphone had been the source Weiss and Aschkenasy had based their study on.

Oscar, is there a problem with factual evidence that I reported here?  Do you have a problem with facts?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Oscar Navarro on December 03, 2018, 01:02:28 AM
Oscar, is there a problem with factual evidence that I reported here?  Do you have a problem with facts?


Keyvan, you're confusing was is factual with an interpretation of a photograph that has been altered and of using selected witness testimony to buttress a conclusion. A wrong one at that. Moorman's photograph is a fact. In it's original state there's nothing in that photo that shows two guys behind the pagoda shooting at anybody. Relying on an altered version of that photograph as proof there were two shooters behind the pagoda is a fools errand, but this has already been pointed out to you by numerous posters numerous times. Still, if you want to insist that the altered photo shows what you claim there's really nothing more to be said. You know the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 01:30:53 AM

Keyvan, you're confusing was is factual with an interpretation of a photograph that has been altered and of using selected witness testimony to buttress a conclusion. A wrong one at that. Moorman's photograph is a fact. In it's original state there's nothing in that photo that shows two guys behind the pagoda shooting at anybody. Relying on an altered version of that photograph as proof there were two shooters behind the pagoda is a fools errand, but this has already been pointed out to you by numerous posters numerous times. Still, if you want to insist that the altered photo shows what you claim there's really nothing more to be said. You know the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

Oscar,  I am not confusing any type of interpretation.  There is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  You are obviously talking about the colored version of the Mary Moorman photo.  What is different in the colored version of the Moorman photo?  If there is a difference besides the fact that it is colored, please let me know, I would like to know and so would everyone on this board.

On top of the Moorman photo showing a person there, the Nix film shows a smoke trail from a gunshot from the same exact place where there is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman both stated in their interview minutes after the assassination that they thought the gunshots came from the pergola.  There is film evidence of what looks like smoke in the area.  Police Officers and Secret Service men testified in the WC that shots came from the area.

This is not my interpretations, these are factual verifiable events that occurred 55 years ago.

So, you are discounting 1) The Moorman photo, 2) The gunshot in the Nix Film, 3) The interview and testimony of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman, 4) The testimony of police officers and secret service men in the WC, and 5) Film of gunsmoke floating around.  To you, even though there is evidence that shows a shot from the pergola, it is somehow not there, because all the evidence is somehow wrong.

If the evidence is wrong, show proof instead of your opinion.

You have an issue with facts, why?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Organ on December 03, 2018, 02:51:05 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-A5csLv48i1g/VLYnEt9nmII/AAAAAAABCxk/P4MR_ak7Lpc/s800/Dealey-Plaza-May-24-1964.jpg)  (http://i63.tinypic.com/2md5i6b.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 03, 2018, 02:58:43 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-A5csLv48i1g/VLYnEt9nmII/AAAAAAABCxk/P4MR_ak7Lpc/s800/Dealey-Plaza-May-24-1964.jpg)  (http://i63.tinypic.com/2md5i6b.jpg)

I believe that you've just confirmed that you  also see the figure of a man in the pergola,  to the left rear, of Zapruder
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 03, 2018, 03:10:58 PM
You are stating your opinion on whether any of the wounds on the victims are compatible with a shot from the pergola.  This is another thread.  All I know is that JFK was shot at from the pergola, that is what the undeniable facts state.

    Are you Now attempting to slither away from your original claim that shot(s) were fired from the SHELTER behind Zapruder? There is a Vast difference between that claim and your claim above of shot(s) being fired "from the PERGOLA".
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 03:43:03 PM
    Are you Now attempting to slither away from your original claim that shot(s) were fired from the SHELTER behind Zapruder? There is a Vast difference between that claim and your claim above of shot(s) being fired "from the PERGOLA".

Why do you have an issue with facts?  Everything I have presented is to the point.  There where shots fired from the pergola towards JFK, that is what the undeniable evidence shows.  What is your point?

Fact is fact, you need to accept facts instead of trying to bring up a new conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 03, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
Oscar,  I am not confusing any type of interpretation.  There is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  You are obviously talking about the colored version of the Mary Moorman photo.  What is different in the colored version of the Moorman photo?  If there is a difference besides the fact that it is colored, please let me know, I would like to know and so would everyone on this board.

On top of the Moorman photo showing a person there, the Nix film shows a smoke trail from a gunshot from the same exact place where there is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman both stated in their interview minutes after the assassination that they thought the gunshots came from the pergola.  There is film evidence of what looks like smoke in the area.  Police Officers and Secret Service men testified in the WC that shots came from the area.

This is not my interpretations, these are factual verifiable events that occurred 55 years ago.

So, you are discounting 1) The Moorman photo, 2) The gunshot in the Nix Film, 3) The interview and testimony of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman, 4) The testimony of police officers and secret service men in the WC, and 5) Film of gunsmoke floating around.  To you, even though there is evidence that shows a shot from the pergola, it is somehow not there, because all the evidence is somehow wrong.

If the evidence is wrong, show proof instead of your opinion.

You have an issue with facts, why?

Keyvan....  you have made your point that there appears to be the figure of a man bin the pergola behind Zapruder.  I believe that you're right on that observation, but how you conclude that he was a sniper who shot JFK is beyond my comprehension. 

Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Organ on December 03, 2018, 04:15:12 PM
I believe that you've just confirmed that you  also see the figure of a man in the pergola,  to the left rear, of Zapruder

You're welcome. Glad it was helpful.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/8xlcsx.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 04:22:38 PM
Keyvan....  you have made your point that there appears to be the figure of a man bin the pergola behind Zapruder.  I believe that you're right on that observation, but how you conclude that he was a sniper who shot JFK is beyond my comprehension.

Walt,

On top of the Moorman photo showing a person there, the Nix film shows a smoke trail from a gunshot from the same exact place where there is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman both stated in their interview minutes after the assassination that they thought the gunshots came from the pergola.  There is film evidence of what looks like smoke in the area.  Police Officers and Secret Service men testified in the WC that shots came from the area.

Have you looked at the Nix film, it is better to watch in slow motion.  In the third window of the pergola, you can see a shot then right after, you can see another shot with a smoke trail from the spot where there is a person standing behind Mr. Zapruder on the Moorman photo.  At about the 5-second mark, start looking at the pergola.  You may need to watch it a couple of times to see it.  It is better if you can slow down the film to .25 seconds.

To slow down a movie on YouTube, watch this video:
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 05:21:26 PM
Walt,

On top of the Moorman photo showing a person there, the Nix film shows a smoke trail from a gunshot from the same exact place where there is a person behind Mr. Zapruder.  Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman both stated in their interview minutes after the assassination that they thought the gunshots came from the pergola.  There is film evidence of what looks like smoke in the area.  Police Officers and Secret Service men testified in the WC that shots came from the area.

Have you looked at the Nix film, it is better to watch in slow motion.  In the third window of the pergola, you can see a shot then right after, you can see another shot with a smoke trail from the spot where there is a person standing behind Mr. Zapruder on the Moorman photo.  At about the 5-second mark, start looking at the pergola.  You may need to watch it a couple of times to see it.  It is better if you can slow down the film to .25 seconds.

To slow down a movie on YouTube, watch this video:

What are you seeing in the Nix film you are interpreting as shots?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 03, 2018, 06:54:09 PM
What are you seeing in the Nix film you are interpreting as shots?
I believe the reference is to 0:20 in that video.  That image is nowhere near the pergola windows. It is halfway down the steps from the pergola. Were anyone there, they would have been easily seen.
It has been studied for years.... and years ago determined to be freaky looking shadows.
If it were a person..they would have to be 3 feet high or less and have a bean shooter not a rifle. Compare with Zapruder and friend who towered over the image.
Perhaps it was a really short aborigines Amazonian with a poison dart but it was not a rifle sniper.
Notice in the video the image does not change shape. Were it a shooter it most certainly would have.
View this video from Mr Nix himself. At 2:20 he tells were he believed the shots came from.....
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:00:03 PM
What are you seeing in the Nix film you are interpreting as shots?

Are you looking at the pergola starting at the 5-sec mark of the video?  Do you see it?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:00:53 PM
I believe the reference is to 0:20 in that video.  That image is nowhere near the pergola windows. It is halfway down the steps from the pergola. Were anyone there, they would have been easily seen.
It has been studied for years.... and years ago determined to be freaky looking shadows.
If it were a person..they would have to be 3 feet high or less and have a bean shooter not a rifle. Compare with Zapruder and friend who towered over the image.
Perhaps it was a really short aborigines Amazonian with a poison dart but it was not a rifle sniper.
Notice in the video the image does not change shape. Were it a shooter it most certainly would have.
View this video from Mr Nix himself. At 2:20 he tells were he believed the shots came from.....

I think there was a reference to shots being seen rather than (or rather as well as) people. I can see a couple of white streaks, but there are other white streaks at other times in the film, and various blobs and marks seen throughout. I wonder if that was what was being referred to.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:03:39 PM
Are you looking at the pergola starting at the 5-sec mark of the video?  Do you see it?

Yes I was looking at the 5 second mark. As I just posted, there are a couple of white streaks, is that what you mean? There are a couple of horizontal white streaks at the very start of the film, what are they? There are other streaks and blobs in the film.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:04:51 PM
I believe the reference is to 0:20 in that video.  That image is nowhere near the pergola windows. It is halfway down the steps from the pergola. Were anyone there, they would have been easily seen.
It has been studied for years.... and years ago determined to be freaky looking shadows.
If it were a person..they would have to be 3 feet high or less and have a bean shooter not a rifle. Compare with Zapruder and friend who towered over the image.
Perhaps it was a really short aborigines Amazonian with a poison dart but it was not a rifle sniper.
Notice in the video the image does not change shape. Were it a shooter it most certainly would have.
View this video from Mr Nix himself. At 2:20 he tells were he believed the shots came from.....

No Jerry, look right at the 5-second mark in the pergola.  You may want to start watching it at the 4-sec mark.  Right about the 5-sec mark, a shot is fired from the third window and less than a second later a shot with a smoke trail is seen right behind Zapruder.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:06:57 PM
Yes I was looking at the 5 second mark. As I just posted, there are a couple of white streaks, is that what you mean? There are a couple of horizontal white streaks at the very start of the film, what are they? There are other streaks and blobs in the film.

Typical response from you, I wouldn't expect anything else from you.  It is there, you know it, you just don't want to accept it.  You can't hide from the truth or the facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:09:14 PM
Typical response from you, I wouldn't expect anything else from you.  It is there, you know it, you just don't want to accept it.  You can't hide from the truth or the facts.

Why won't you discuss things, this is a discussion forum isn't it? Is it the white streaks you are referring to? Do you see the earlier horizontal streaks? What do you think they are?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:14:05 PM
Why won't you discuss things, this is a discussion forum isn't it? Is it the white streaks you are referring to? Do you see the earlier horizontal streaks? What do you think they are?

Why don't you get the truth and fact glasses, you might see it then.  You can't hide from the truth, the fact is fact.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:17:14 PM
Why don't you get the truth and fact glasses, you might see it then.  You can't hide from the truth, the fact is fact.

So you don't want to discuss it?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:18:46 PM
So you don't want to discuss it?

Nothing to discuss that has already been discussed.

Accept the truth and facts.  JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
Nothing to discuss that has already been discussed.

Accept the truth and facts.  JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

I presume you meant hasn't already been discussed. If so, why are you posting? What do you want to achieve?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:25:34 PM
I presume you meant hasn't already been discussed. If so, why are you posting? What do you want to achieve?

Why are you asking?  What do you want to achieve?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:26:20 PM
Why are you asking?  What do you want to achieve?

A discussion. You?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:30:47 PM
A discussion. You?

It is just burning you up that there is evidence of a conspiracy,  I can understand that you have believed otherwise for such a long time, but you have to accept the facts, and the facts are that shots were fired from the pergola towards JFK. There is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. 

You want a discussion, bring it on...
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:35:52 PM
It is just burning you up that there is evidence of a conspiracy,

Its really not.

Quote
I can understand that you have believed otherwise for such a long time,

Its been a long time since I gave it any thought.

Quote
....but you have to accept the facts, and the facts are that shots were fired from the pergola towards JFK. There is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.

If those were the facts I would except them, but they aren't and just repeating that they are doesn't make it so.

Quote
You want a discussion, bring it on...

Are you referring to the white streaks at 5 seconds in? Do you see horizontal white streaks earlier in the film? What are they?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:42:44 PM
Its really not.

Its been a long time since I gave it any thought.

If those were the facts I would except them, but they aren't and just repeating that they are doesn't make it so.

Are you referring to the white streaks at 5 seconds in? Do you see horizontal white streaks earlier in the film? What are they?

It is burning you up and you don't know how to deal with it.  Can't help you there.
For the video, keep watching it over and over again until you finally accept that you see the gunshots.  If you can't do that, you have a serious problem with fact and truth.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 07:45:23 PM
It is burning you up and you don't know how to deal with it.  Can't help you there.
For the video, keep watching it over and over again until you finally accept that you see the gunshots.  If you can't do that, you have a serious problem with fact and truth.

Is that your idea of a discussion? You said 'bring it on' after all.

Why don't you answer the questions if the answers are so obvious?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 07:49:10 PM
Is that your idea of a discussion? You said 'bring it on' after all.

Why don't you answer the questions if the answers are so obvious?

We are having a discussion about how you have an issue with fact and truth.  Bring it on...
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 03, 2018, 08:00:55 PM
It is just burning you up that there is evidence of a conspiracy,  I can understand that you have believed otherwise for such a long time, but you have to accept the facts, and the facts are that shots were fired from the pergola towards JFK. There is proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. 

You want a discussion, bring it on...

        With "bring it on" in mind, just how does Zapruder and Sitzman fit into these alleged shots being fired Only feet behind them? They have Never said they heard shots being fired that close to them. Tink Thompson Q/A'd Sitzman regarding someone firing a rifle in close proximity to her when he interviewed her for "Six Seconds In Dallas". She denied HEARING/seeing anyone firing a gun in that general area around her and Zapruder. 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 08:15:00 PM
        With "bring it on" in mind, just how does Zapruder and Sitzman fit into these alleged shots being fired Only feet behind them? They have Never said they heard shots being fired that close to them. Tink Thompson Q/A'd Sitzman regarding someone firing a rifle in close proximity to her when he interviewed her for "Six Seconds In Dallas". She denied HEARING/seeing anyone firing a gun in that general area around her and Zapruder.

Again, for the nth time, Zapruder heard shots as he thought he was in direct line of fire in his TV interview.  He even went further in his WC testimony that the shots came from behind him.  This is what is verifiable.  As for your other questions, you are probably better off asking a psychologist about why Mrs. Sitzman did not hear anything except for a really loud report caused by a soda pop bottle that a black couple had and that no-one can verify.  She also says that after she got off the pedestal, she went down near the street and spoke to someone, when the Bell film shows that she never did go down to the street level.  Yep, a psychologist might be able to help.  I am not a psychologist, so I can't help.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 03, 2018, 08:16:24 PM
        With "bring it on" in mind, just how does Zapruder and Sitzman fit into these alleged shots being fired Only feet behind them? They have Never said they heard shots being fired that close to them. Tink Thompson Q/A'd Sitzman regarding someone firing a rifle in close proximity to her when he interviewed her for "Six Seconds In Dallas". She denied HEARING/seeing anyone firing a gun in that general area around her and Zapruder.

If the figure that appears to be a man in the pergola behind Sitzman and Z had been a man with a rifle he would have had to have fired the rifle from his left shoulder...Very few rifles are made for left hand shooters....and the firing of a right hand rifle is awkward for a south paw.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 03, 2018, 08:36:44 PM
Again, for the nth time, Zapruder heard shots as he thought he was in direct line of fire in his TV interview.  He even went further in his WC testimony that the shots came from behind him.  This is what is verifiable.  As for your other questions, you are probably better off asking a psychologist about why Mrs. Sitzman did not hear anything except for a really loud report caused by a soda pop bottle that a black couple had and that no-one can verify.  She also says that after she got off the pedestal, she went down near the street and spoke to someone, when the Bell film shows that she never did go down to the street level.  Yep, a psychologist might be able to help.  I am not a psychologist, so I can't help.

        Zapruder made the TV interview "line of fire" comment AFTER they showed the TSBD 6th floor Sniper's window on the TV screen. Zapruder then had the opportunity to say he knew of shots being fired from Only 6 feet behind/from inside the Pergola. He did Not. This is because he only had a general sense of hearing shots being fired from behind him, Not Immediately behind him from inside the Pergola. You are shooting yourself in the foot by citing that Zapruder TV Interview. 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 08:45:31 PM
If the figure that appears to be a man in the pergola behind Sitzman and Z had been a man with a rifle he would have had to have fired the rifle from his left shoulder...Very few rifles are made for left hand shooters....and the firing of a right hand rifle is awkward for a south paw.

Walt,

Maybe so, but that is an opinion of what the gunmen did.  What's if a left-hand rifle was provided, that is opinion as well.  Nobody knows, the only thing that we know, because there is factual evidence, is that shots were fired from the pergola towards JFK.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 08:49:44 PM
We are having a discussion about how you have an issue with fact and truth.  Bring it on...

I know that's what you want it to be about but its not, as far as I'm concerned, but rather about your claim of obvious gunshots being seen in the Nix film originating from the pergola. Don't you want to discuss that?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 08:56:18 PM
I know that's what you want it to be about but its not, as far as I'm concerned, but rather about your claim of obvious gunshots being seen in the Nix film originating from the pergola. Don't you want to discuss that?

We are discussing this, I have told you to keep looking at the film starting at the 5-sec mark, for you prob at the 4-sec mark.  You need to put on some truth or factual glasses so you can see them because you already stated that you don't see them.  You are misleading.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 03, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
We are discussing this, I have told you to keep looking at the film starting at the 5-sec mark, for you prob at the 4-sec mark.  You need to put on some truth or factual glasses so you can see them because you already stated that you don't see them.  You are misleading.

Telling me to look at the film, when I have, is not having a discussion. I have not stated that I do not see them, I have asked whether you are referring to the white streaks, if you see the earlier horizontal white streaks and if so what you think they are.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 03, 2018, 10:17:02 PM
Telling me to look at the film, when I have, is not having a discussion. I have not stated that I do not see them, I have asked whether you are referring to the white streaks, if you see the earlier horizontal white streaks and if so what you think they are.

You are misleading.  You can't argue with facts.  Why don't you announce to all that you see the shots?  You won't do it, because you have an issue with facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 03, 2018, 10:32:04 PM
You are misleading.  You can't argue with facts.  Why don't you announce to all that you see the shots?  You won't do it, because you have an issue with facts.

    I also do Not see any sign of gun fire coming out of the Shelter on the Nix Film.  Just because You believe You see something does Not make it a Fact. It is individuals such as Blevins and Yourself which continue to give a Black Eye to all Valid Conspiracy Issues. Claiming Shooter(s) were inside the shelter mere feet behind Zapruder & Sitzman is Ridiculous. Further claiming this to be an absolute Fact is Delusional. 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 04, 2018, 12:00:21 AM
    I also do Not see any sign of gun fire coming out of the Shelter on the Nix Film.   
Someone who would be inside the covered pergola would be trapped and would be seen exiting...simple as that. Here is an aerial view showing this.....
 
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-T26-8cCEQX4/ULO8TLk5dJI/AAAAAAAAASU/YcOpMo64B2E/s800/Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-Circa-1967.jpg)

Those are all police cars parked behind. That was quite the secure area wouldn't you think?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on December 04, 2018, 12:04:56 AM
You are misleading.  You can't argue with facts.  Why don't you announce to all that you see the shots?  You won't do it, because you have an issue with facts.

Questions, please: If all of the shots were fired by a shooter located behind the Pergola then how did JFK and JC get shot in their backs?

And if the shooter was located there, where is the conspiracy? You have one shooter and not two. That is, if you believe Zapruder and Newman's account that all of the shots they heard sounded like they came from a location behind them?

And what about the witnesses who said the shots sounded like they came from the TSBD? What about Brennan? Norman, Jarman, Williams et al.?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 12:39:13 AM
Someone who would be inside the covered pergola would be trapped and would be seen exiting...simple as that. Here is an aerial view showing this.....
 
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-T26-8cCEQX4/ULO8TLk5dJI/AAAAAAAAASU/YcOpMo64B2E/s800/Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-Circa-1967.jpg)

Those are all police cars parked behind. That was quite the secure area wouldn't you think?

Jerry,  you are injecting your opinions about factual evidence.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 12:41:42 AM
Questions, please: If all of the shots were fired by a shooter located behind the Pergola then how did JFK and JC get shot in their backs?

And if the shooter was located there, where is the conspiracy? You have one shooter and not two. That is, if you believe Zapruder and Newman's account that all of the shots they heard sounded like they came from a location behind them?

And what about the witnesses who said the shots sounded like they came from the TSBD? What about Brennan? Norman, Jarman, Williams et al.?

Steve,
I don't know, this thread deals with the shots from the pergola toward JFK.  I do however believe that there were multiple shooters, with two being in the pergola.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 04, 2018, 12:43:41 AM
Walt,

Maybe so, but that is an opinion of what the gunmen did.  What's if a left-hand rifle was provided, that is opinion as well.  Nobody knows, the only thing that we know, because there is factual evidence, is that shots were fired from the pergola towards JFK.

Keyvan, What has happened in the Lincoln at the 5 second point?    Has Jackie already responded to JFK 's distress?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 04, 2018, 04:23:57 AM
Jerry,  you are injecting your opinions ...Steve,
I don't know, this thread deals with the shots from the pergola toward JFK.  I do however believe that there were multiple shooters, with two being in the pergola.
Keyvan...you are a terrible analyst. You should quit while you are behind.
An opinion would be like this...There are, as you claim  [which is an opinion] two gunmen within the covered pergola. One has a rifle and the other must be standing upon his shoulders with a rifle which they fire at the limo. They escape down a scuttle hole in that pergola corner which they had  dug previously and disguised with a fake concrete lid and tunneled then to a sewer pipe. ---That sir is an opinion and as and silly as it might seem, this is what you seem to propose.
 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 04, 2018, 04:29:37 AM
Keyvan...you are a terrible analyst. You should quit while you are behind.
An opinion would be like this...There are, as you claim  [which is an opinion] two gunmen within the covered pergola. One has a rifle and the other must be standing upon his shoulders with a rifle which they fire at the limo. They escape down a scuttle hole in that pergola corner which they had  dug previously and disguised with a fake concrete lid and tunneled then to a sewer pipe. ---That sir is an opinion and as and silly as it might seem, this is what you seem to propose.

I'd like to support Keyvan....  or any honest student that has logical and rational ideas.... But I agree with you Jerry, Keyvan hasn't thought this through ...
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Nicholas Turner on December 04, 2018, 04:48:50 AM
You are misleading.  You can't argue with facts.  Why don't you announce to all that you see the shots?  You won't do it, because you have an issue with facts.

I don't have an issue with facts, but what you are claiming are not facts. You have been shown facts which you are ignoring, such as the fact that someone in the position shown in the colourised Moorman image would be unrealistically tall or on a step ladder, that it is not possible to exit the shelter from the rear so any people in there would have had to exit from the front, that there are other white streaks seen in the Nix film. It is you who has the problem with facts and won't discuss or answer any questions asked. You're on your own on this one and I will leave you to your beliefs now rather than waste anymore of my time.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 04, 2018, 06:23:03 AM
Keyvan, What has happened in the Lincoln at the 5 second point?    Has Jackie already responded to JFK 's distress?

    He borrowed the bulk of this Hokum from Blevins without doing his own research to verify the Blevins  BS: Now he looks ridiculous trying to defend an utterly nonsensical scenario. Unless Zapruder and Sitzman are in on this half baked scheme, it immediately goes the banana peel route.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
Keyvan...you are a terrible analyst. You should quit while you are behind.
An opinion would be like this...There are, as you claim  [which is an opinion] two gunmen within the covered pergola. One has a rifle and the other must be standing upon his shoulders with a rifle which they fire at the limo. They escape down a scuttle hole in that pergola corner which they had  dug previously and disguised with a fake concrete lid and tunneled then to a sewer pipe. ---That sir is an opinion and as and silly as it might seem, this is what you seem to propose.

Jerry, you are starting a theory all by yourself.  Look at the evidence.  It is there.  Two shots seen by the Nix Film from the pergola that is undeniable except by those who refuse to see it.

The evidence is evidence, the fact is fact.  I showed you the evidence and the facts without an interpretation.  If you choose not to see it, that's on you.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 02:02:53 PM
I don't have an issue with facts, but what you are claiming are not facts. You have been shown facts which you are ignoring, such as the fact that someone in the position shown in the colourised Moorman image would be unrealistically tall or on a step ladder, that it is not possible to exit the shelter from the rear so any people in there would have had to exit from the front, that there are other white streaks seen in the Nix film. It is you who has the problem with facts and won't discuss or answer any questions asked. You're on your own on this one and I will leave you to your beliefs now rather than waste anymore of my time.

Fact is fact, you want to change facts to fit your narrative.  Who knows what happened where we cannot see.  I doubt that there is a person that is 9'6", but the facts are facts, there are shots from the third window and then there is a shot from the breezeway.  You can't change those facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 02:04:20 PM
    He borrowed the bulk of this Hokum from Blevins without doing his own research to verify the Blevins  BS: Now he looks ridiculous trying to defend an utterly nonsensical scenario. Unless Zapruder and Sitzman are in on this half baked scheme, it immediately goes the banana peel route.

Blah, blah, blah...  Facts are facts, you cannot change facts to fit your narrative.  Get used to facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Keyvan, What has happened in the Lincoln at the 5 second point?    Has Jackie already responded to JFK 's distress?

More opinions on your behalf.  The facts are that there are two shots from the pergola.  That is undeniable and you can't change the facts to fit your agenda.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 04, 2018, 03:58:22 PM
Fact is fact, you want to change facts to fit your narrative.  Who knows what happened where we cannot see.  I doubt that there is a person that is 9'6", but the facts are facts, there are shots from the third window and then there is a shot from the breezeway.  You can't change those facts.

     Yeah. So a shooter Looks out of the 4th Shelter Window but fires/levels his rifle out of the 3rd Window? Chuck Connors/"The Rifleman" had better things to do on 11/22/63.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 04:05:41 PM
     Yeah. So a shooter Looks out of the 4th Shelter Window but fires/levels his rifle out of the 3rd Window? Chuck Connors/"The Rifleman" had better things to do on 11/22/63.

What are you talking about, more opinions and new conspiracy?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 04, 2018, 04:32:25 PM
What are you talking about, more opinions and new conspiracy?

   Your Windows, Your Problem. Plus, you continue to run away from having Zapruder and Sitzman actively playing a part in this scene right out of, "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World". For whatever reason you have chosen to tie yourself to the mast of this Ship amidst it going down for the 4th time. It ain't even Your ship! It has been skippered by Blevins dating back 2+ years.   
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 05:21:50 PM
   Your Windows, Your Problem. Plus, you continue to run away from having Zapruder and Sitzman actively playing a part in this scene right out of, "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World". For whatever reason you have chosen to tie yourself to the mast of this Ship amidst it going down for the 4th time. It ain't even Your ship! It has been skippered by Blevins dating back 2+ years.

You can't argue with facts about the shots in the Nix Film, the Mary Moorman photo, nor can you argue about the interviews and testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.  You have nothing but personal attacks.  What a pity.  I really thought you would add value here.  How disappointing.

Keep them coming though, I want everyone to see what you are.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 04, 2018, 06:04:08 PM
You can't argue with facts about the shots in the Nix Film, the Mary Moorman photo, nor can you argue about the interviews and testimonies of Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman.  You have nothing but personal attacks.  What a pity.  I really thought you would add value here.  How disappointing.

Keep them coming though, I want everyone to see what you are.

   Nothing personal at all. You are relatively new on this Forum and right out of the box you are destroying your own credibility. You have made a mistake by following the Pied Piper of Blevins. Basing an opinion on an ALTERED JFK Assassination Image has lead to your being embarrassingly wrong.  Next time, do your own in-depth investigative research Before distributing the Theory of someone else. You got game but you're green. That green has led to your getting bamboozled. Walk away Now and regard your lumps as a lesson learned.   
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 06:42:52 PM
   Nothing personal at all. You are relatively new on this Forum and right out of the box you are destroying your own credibility. You have made a mistake by following the Pied Piper of Blevins. Basing an opinion on an ALTERED JFK Assassination Image has lead to your being embarrassingly wrong.  Next time, do your own in-depth investigative research Before distributing the Theory of someone else. You got game but you're green. That green has led to your getting bamboozled. Walk away Now and regard your lumps as a lesson learned.   

No need to back away when the facts are facts.  Not you or anyone can change facts.  Keep bringing other people to the fray, it does not matter.  Facts are facts and you cannot change facts to meet your point of view.
A couple of shots in the Nix film - Fact.
A person behind Mr. Zapruder in the Mary Photograph - Fact
Interviews and testimonies from Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Newman that shots came from the pergola - Fact
Police officers and Secret Service men testimonies in the WC that shots came from that area - Fact
Gunsmoke captured in film in Dealey Plaza right after the assassination - Fact

You can argue all you want, you can't change the facts.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 04, 2018, 07:07:10 PM
   Nothing personal at all. You are relatively new on this Forum and right out of the box you are destroying your own credibility. You have made a mistake by following the Pied Piper of Blevins. Basing an opinion on an ALTERED JFK Assassination Image has lead to your being embarrassingly wrong.  Next time, do your own in-depth investigative research Before distributing the Theory of someone else. You got game but you're green. That green has led to your getting bamboozled. Walk away Now and regard your lumps as a lesson learned.   

This Kevyan character is a classic Internet troll
Don't take the bait
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 07:28:46 PM
This Kevyan character is a classic Internet troll
Don't take the bait

I am not a troll, this is classic Chappie telling everyone that does not agree with his warped, unvetted, without any fact theories.

You can't argue with facts Chappie, you just can't.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Walt Cakebread on December 04, 2018, 07:42:41 PM
     Yeah. So a shooter Looks out of the 4th Shelter Window but fires/levels his rifle out of the 3rd Window? Chuck Connors/"The Rifleman" had better things to do on 11/22/63.

Re: "The Rifleman"....  Did you know that Whitey Bulger the convict who was murdered in prison last month was known as "The Rifleman"  in mafia circles?   Bulger was a amoral killer and a crack shot with a rifle.... He was given the moniker " The Rifleman" after the murder of JFK.... 

Is there a connection?....  I don't know.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 04, 2018, 08:15:59 PM
Re: "The Rifleman"....  Did you know that Whitey Bulger the convict who was murdered in prison last month was known as "The Rifleman"  in mafia circles?   Bulger was a amoral killer and a crack shot with a rifle.... He was given the moniker " The Rifleman" after the murder of JFK.... 

Is there a connection?....  I don't know.

I'm pretty sure the rifleman moniker was attached to his associate Stephen "The Rifleman" Flemmi.

Bulger was incarcerated 9 nine years for bank robbery and was in a number of places including Alcatraz from 1956 to 1965.

Stephen Joseph "The Rifleman" Flemmi (born June 9, 1934) is an Italian-American gangster and close associate of Winter Hill Gang boss Whitey Bulger. Beginning in 1975, Flemmi was a top echelon informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Despite delivering a great deal of intelligence about the inner workings of the Patriarca crime family, Flemmi's own criminal activities proved a public relations nightmare for the FBI. He was ultimately brought up on charges under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), and pleaded guilty in return for a sentence of life in prison.

His nickname comes from the fact that Flemmi enlisted in the Army in 1951 at the age of 17 and served two tours of duty in Korea with the 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team. He was awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star Medal decorations for valor
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 04, 2018, 10:52:39 PM
This Kevyan character is a classic Internet troll
Don't take the bait

That's good advice Bill.

One thing that's a plus out of this garbage is that on several occasions I've found myself in serious agreement with Walt and Royell.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 04, 2018, 11:02:55 PM
That's good advice Bill.

One thing that's a plus out of this garbage is that on several occasions I've found myself in serious agreement with Walt and Royell.

I guess you don't like the fact I have presented here.  You have a problem with facts.  How disappointing.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 04, 2018, 11:34:10 PM
I am not a troll, this is classic Chappie telling everyone that does not agree with his warped, unvetted, without any fact theories.

You can't argue with facts Chappie, you just can't.

You create your own. Not a good plan in any walk of life. In you, the 'fake news' era has claimed yet another victim. Even CT trolls here don't believe you.

You will eventually crash & burn here, and of your own accord.
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 04, 2018, 11:42:15 PM
That's good advice Bill.

One thing that's a plus out of this garbage is that on several occasions I've found myself in serious agreement with Walt and Royell.

That won't last

 ;)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Howsley on December 05, 2018, 12:24:24 AM
That won't last

 ;)

 :D
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 05, 2018, 12:26:53 AM
That's good advice Bill.

One thing that's a plus out of this garbage is that on several occasions I've found myself in serious agreement with Walt and Royell.

      Thumb1: (Other than the 2nd Billing)
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Keyvan Shahrdar on December 05, 2018, 01:07:13 AM
You create your own. Not a good plan in any walk of life. In you, the 'fake news' era has claimed yet another victim. Even CT trolls here don't believe you.

You will eventually crash & burn here, and of your own accord.

Fake news is you.  Fact after fact after fact, that is what has been presented to you.

You have a serious problem with facts.  Why?
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Jerry Freeman on December 05, 2018, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: Bill Chapman on December 04, 2018, 11:34:10 PM
Quote
    You create your own [facts]. Not a good plan in any walk of life. In you, the 'fake news' era has claimed yet another victim. Even CT trolls here don't believe you.     You will eventually crash & burn here, and of your own accord.
Quote from: Keyvan Shahrdar link=topic=1416.msg38628#msg38628 date=1543972033]
Quote
Fake news is you.  Fact after fact after fact, that is what has been presented to you. You have a serious problem with facts.  Why?

 Like I stated earlier...you guys really deserve each other. Now kiss and make up :-*
 

 
 
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Steve Logan on December 05, 2018, 08:01:50 PM
Word on the street is that Blevins passed away on 11/30/2018
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Bill Chapman on December 05, 2018, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: Bill Chapman on December 04, 2018, 11:34:10 PMQuote from: Keyvan Shahrdar link=topic=1416.msg38628#msg38628 date=1543972033]
 Like I stated earlier...you guys really deserve each other. Now kiss and make up :-*

I suspect you'd love to watch that...
 :P

But I think he's more your type
Title: Re: Proof JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Post by: Royell Storing on December 05, 2018, 10:53:11 PM
Word on the street is that Blevins passed away on 11/30/2018

    He's been extremely sick. He even started a Fund Me Page.