JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 02:27:04 AM

Title: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 02:27:04 AM
On page 157 of the WC Report we see the following.

Quote on

The bus ride.?According to the reconstruction of time and events which the Commission found most credible, Lee Harvey Oswald left the building approximately three minutes after the assassination. He PROBABLY walked east on Elm Street for seven blocks to the corner of Elm and Murphy where he boarded a bus which was HEADING BACK IN THE DIRECTION OF THE DEPOSITORY BUILDING, on its way to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. (Emphasis mine)

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0091a.htm

J. E. Hoover?s report of whereabouts?known as Commission Exhibit (CE) 1119A.

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0058b.htm

Quote off

A couple of things jump out after reading this paragraph. Firstly, they said PROBABLY in terms of what he did as they could NOT show he did do this. Secondly, the bus he allegedly boarded (there is NO evidence showing he ever did board this bus) was HEADED BACK to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD), so why NOT just wait there and then board the bus when it came in front of the building? Who takes a bus heading back to the crime scene IF YOU ARE THE KILLER as claimed anyway? Can any WC defender answer this question for me?

As IF this was NOT bad enough it gets worse for the WC and its defenders. On page 154 of the SAME report it goes through a litany of people that would have seen LHO INSIDE THE BUILDING, but did NOT see him leave the building. Finally on page 156 it says this.


Quote on

Although Oswald PROBABLY left the building at 12:33 p.m., his absence was NOT noticed until at least one-half hour later. (Emphasis mine)

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0090b.htm

CE-1118?diagram of second floor of TSBD.

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0058a.htm

Quote off

We see that NO one saw him or noticed him walking off as the WC claimed he did for at least 30 minutes! How can that be? The front of the TSBD was loaded with people and yet NO one saw LHO walk out and leave. Why not?

Can any WC defender explain this for me?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 16, 2018, 03:01:54 AM
Oswald's creased bus transfer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2rzYhVS/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Joe Elliott on October 16, 2018, 03:09:56 AM
How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?

That is pretty strange. It?s not like there was anything interesting on TV at the time. I don?t know.

And I don?t know about other posters but no one can walk past the house where I live without me writing down the time and a brief description. There is no way anyone can pass by unnoticed or immediately forgotten and I would guess that is generally true of most everyone.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 16, 2018, 04:05:37 AM
Still, the writers mention 'probably' [like maybe he might not have]
http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0091a.htm
Like maybe he walked south to Main..then east for three or four blocks then went back north to Elm and went on until he saw a bus?
They just may have seen the senselessness of walking against the completely stalled traffic on Elm to begin with and boarding a bus that was obviously going nowhere.
Mytton likes to copy and paste pictures and stuff but the bus transfer makes no sense either.
Been through this a dozen times. Why get a transfer..change clothes..but keep the transfer...and then not use the transfer?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 16, 2018, 04:16:35 AM
Still, the writers mention 'probably' [like maybe he might not have]
http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0091a.htm
Like maybe he walked south to Main..then east for three or four blocks then went back north to Elm and went on until he saw a bus?
They just may have seen the senselessness of walking against the completely stalled traffic on Elm to begin with and boarding a bus that was obviously going nowhere.
Mytton likes to copy and paste pictures and stuff but the bus transfer makes no sense either.
Been through this a dozen times. Why get a transfer..change clothes..but keep the transfer...and then not use the transfer?

Bledsoe's second day affidavit is way too accurate for random guesses.

Was it public knowledge that Oswald got on a Bus about Murphy Street?
Was it public knowledge that Oswald got off a Bus after a few blocks?
Was it public knowledge that while the bus was stuck in traffic at the same time as Oswald was on the Bus that a man said the President was shot?
Was it public knowledge that Oswald even caught a Bus?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe1.htm

Also in Bledsoe's testimony she goes into detail about a woman who also got off at the same time as Oswald who wanted to get to the train station which along with the above Bledsoe recollections can be confirmed by cross referencing with Bus Driver McWatters testimony.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/mcwatters.htm

(https://s15.postimg.cc/jz323pnjv/flight_zps2prfpevd.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 16, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
Was it public knowledge that Oswald even caught a Bus?
If everybody in the city saw him get on the bus...then why did they say 'probably' in the report?
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
Oswald's creased bus transfer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2rzYhVS/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM

Irrelevant to no one seeing him walking 7 blocks.  Furthermore, there is no supporting evidence that the transfer belonged to LHO.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 03:13:05 PM
How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?

That is pretty strange. It?s not like there was anything interesting on TV at the time. I don?t know.

And I don?t know about other posters but no one can walk past the house where I live without me writing down the time and a brief description. There is no way anyone can pass by unnoticed or immediately forgotten and I would guess that is generally true of most everyone.

So there are hundreds of people near your house? Because there were hundreds of people in DP, but we are asked to believe that NO one saw LHO walking 7 blocks. Sure.

Meanwhile, a teenager is seen immediately running across a lawn near the Jefferson Branch Library, and a shoe store manager notices LHO quite quickly. Good one.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 03:16:08 PM
Bledsoe's second day affidavit is way too accurate for random guesses.

Was it public knowledge that Oswald got on a Bus about Murphy Street?
Was it public knowledge that Oswald got off a Bus after a few blocks?
Was it public knowledge that while the bus was stuck in traffic at the same time as Oswald was on the Bus that a man said the President was shot?
Was it public knowledge that Oswald even caught a Bus?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe1.htm

Also in Bledsoe's testimony she goes into detail about a woman who also got off at the same time as Oswald who wanted to get to the train station which along with the above Bledsoe recollections can be confirmed by cross referencing with Bus Driver McWatters testimony.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/mcwatters.htm

(https://s15.postimg.cc/jz323pnjv/flight_zps2prfpevd.gif)

JohnM

Can you prove that Bledsoe knew LHO by sight? Otherwise her word is worthless.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?

Why not check the evidence and let us know?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 04:21:59 PM
Why not check the evidence and let us know?

Predictable response from you, sadly.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 05:58:29 PM
Predictable response from you, sadly.

The sad part is you seem to have no desire to research anything. Why is that?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 06:05:30 PM
The sad part is you seem to have no desire to research anything. Why is that?

And yet I say I have been watching interviews with Buell Frazier, which triggered my question. Not a great demonstration of reading and comprehension from a 'researcher'.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 06:20:07 PM
And yet I say I have been watching interviews with Buell Frazier, which triggered my question. Not a great demonstration of reading and comprehension from a 'researcher'.

No, you wrote this:

I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?

See the part in bold? You asked others to do the work for you. Why not research it yourself? It seems you have memory issues as you don't even remember what you write.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 06:26:29 PM
You do talk some nonsense and are so desperate to always be right that it leads you into pointless arguments which are a total waste of time. I vowed sometime back not to engage with you  but have slipped on that, so will make a greater effort to ignore you once more. Think its best all round.

So, anyone else willing to comment on the Buell Frazier interview I mentioned?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Patrick Jackson on October 16, 2018, 07:12:11 PM
Oswald's creased bus transfer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2rzYhVS/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM
Is there a record on bus ticket serial numbers? When starting their shifts, bus drivers should write next ticket serial number into their drive log and also when finishing their shift they should write the serial number of last sold ticked. Same record should exist in bus depot when drivers were taking and returning the tickets. Is there a record of this serial numbers?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 16, 2018, 09:18:05 PM
I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?

There's a 2002 C-Span interview where Buell says he saw Oswald come out the back of the building, walk right past him, go up Houston and along Elm. Decide for yourself if Buell sounds a little vague. And I don't recall Buell ever describing that Oswald 'route' in testimony or elsewhere.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Alan Hardaker on October 16, 2018, 09:46:31 PM
Wonder why Oswald didn't take his pistol to the TSBD as well as the MC. There was every chance he'd be caught red handed or recognised in the snipers nest. He knew there would be plenty of co-workers milling around outside at the time of the parade. So he stood a fair chance of being spotted as the shooter.

Wouldn't he be thinking, as a bit of a desperado to say the least..." need a gun to get the hell out of there"..

Looks like he gave little thought to his getaway....if he was getting away...
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 16, 2018, 09:51:36 PM
Quote
    I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?
Why not check the evidence and let us know?
I thought it was a fair request to locate and link the interview..I would like to see it also :)

 
 

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 16, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2 (https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2)

Comment about seeing Oswald come out the back dock area and cross Houston street is at about 13:00.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 11:22:55 PM
You do talk some nonsense and are so desperate to always be right that it leads you into pointless arguments which are a total waste of time. I vowed sometime back not to engage with you  but have slipped on that, so will make a greater effort to ignore you once more. Think its best all round.

So, anyone else willing to comment on the Buell Frazier interview I mentioned?

As I thought, you have no evidence to discuss. Instead you want to discuss hypotheticals like the WC.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 11:25:21 PM
I thought it was a fair request to locate and link the interview..I would like to see it also :)

Me too, but Mr. Turner wants us to discuss something we have not seen I guess. Instead he insults me for asking.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 11:26:14 PM
I thought it was a fair request to locate and link the interview..I would like to see it also :)

That wasn't what was requested. If it was that would have been fair enough, but it wasn't, it was a response to me asking if Frazier saying he saw Oswald leaving the TSBD was accepted or known. I hadn't seen this anywhere before, hence my question.

The  2002 C-Span interview isn't the one I saw but it was the same story, told more recently and with more certainty. I can't find the interview at the moment but will see if I can find it. Sorry. Have watched quite a few recently  :)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 16, 2018, 11:30:44 PM
That wasn't what was requested. If it was that would have been fair enough, but it wasn't, it was a response to me asking if Frazier saying he saw Oswald leaving the TSBD was accepted or known. I hadn't seen this anywhere before, hence my question.

The  2002 C-Span interview isn't the one I saw but it was the same story, told more recently and with more certainty. I can't find the interview at the moment but will see if I can find it. Sorry. Have watched quite a few recently  :)

Asking you to research what you heard him say many years later with what he said in 1963/64 is not unfair. Why haven't you done this?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 16, 2018, 11:36:18 PM
I thought it was a fair request to locate and link the interview..I would like to see it also :)

You see that was not what was being asked.

'Asking you to research what you heard him say many years later with what he said in 1963/64 is not unfair. Why haven't you done this?'
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Alan Hardaker on October 16, 2018, 11:52:57 PM
The size of the bag on the back seat of Mr. Frazier's car is an issue. Mr. Frazier said he glanced at it for brief second and estimated it a 2ft possibly slightly bigger. The MC disassembled can be no shorter than 3ft. It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.  In relation to times Mr.Frazier gives approximations, often giving quite wide variations.

If the bag did contain curtain rods, why where they not found in the TSBD. Oswald wasn't getting a lift home from Mr.Frazier that day and that's the reason why Oswald carried the " curtain rods" into the TSBD. So what happened to the curtain rods. Perhaps somebody nicked them....half inched them.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 17, 2018, 12:06:08 AM
The size of the bag on the back seat of Mr. Frazier's car is an issue. Mr. Frazier said he glanced at it for brief second and estimated it a 2ft possibly slightly bigger. The MC disassembled can be no shorter than 3ft. It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.  In relation to times Mr.Frazier gives approximations, often giving quite wide variations.

If the bag did contain curtain rods, why where they not found in the TSBD. Oswald wasn't getting a lift home from Mr.Frazier that day and that's the reason why Oswald carried the " curtain rods" into the TSBD. So what happened to the curtain rods. Perhaps somebody nicked them....half inched them.

It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.

That's possible, but how about observation? Frazier said Oswald carried that package in his cupped hand and tucked under his shoulder. If the package was 3ft or more, how tall must Oswald have been?

If the bag did contain curtain rods,

That's a very big "if" since nobody has ever seen them.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Alan Hardaker on October 17, 2018, 12:43:04 AM
It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.

That's possible, but how about observation? Frazier said Oswald carried that package in his cupped hand and tucked under his shoulder. If the package was 3ft or more, how tall must Oswald have been?

If the bag did contain curtain rods,

That's a very big "if" since nobody has ever seen them.

From a cupped hand to the tip of a shoulder could easily be 3ft. How much real attention did Mr. Frazier show and did he drop Oswald off or did they both walk from the car park to the TSBD.

Oswald had told Mr. Frazier the bag contained Curtain Rods. Oswald took them into work as he wasn't getting a lift home. That was the story he told Frazier, more or less. So what happened to the rods.

As to Mr. Frazier failing to verify the bag, he was shown under interrogation, as being the bag on the back seat of his car, that he briefly took a disinterested glance at. Well that's no big surprise as the bag would've been deconstructed by Oswald in removing whatever it was that was in it and had also been manhandled by numerous detectives.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 17, 2018, 02:14:09 AM
So how did LHO walk 7 blocks and not be seen? Or walk nearly a mile in a neighborhood loaded with stay-at-home moms and seniors and not be seen, but then is spotted by a shoe store manager who finds him suspicious?

Does any part of the official story make any sense?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 17, 2018, 02:35:32 AM
So how did LHO walk 7 blocks and not be seen? Or walk nearly a mile in a neighborhood loaded with stay-at-home moms and seniors and not be seen, but then is spotted by a shoe store manager who finds him suspicious?

Does any part of the official story make any sense?

 ::)

FFS... figure it out: People were likely inside watching/listening to the constant updates on the assassination. Or at work. Like Brewer, who was minding his own business. Not his fault that Oswald showed up.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Brian Walker on October 17, 2018, 05:42:00 PM
So how did LHO walk 7 blocks and not be seen? Or walk nearly a mile in a neighborhood loaded with stay-at-home moms and seniors and not be seen, but then is spotted by a shoe store manager who finds him suspicious?

Does any part of the official story make any sense?

How do you know he was not seen?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Brian Walker on October 17, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.

That's possible, but how about observation? Frazier said Oswald carried that package in his cupped hand and tucked under his shoulder. If the package was 3ft or more, how tall must Oswald have been?

[

This by itself sums up Martin.  He tries to make this point over and over and over again despite the fact that Frazier himself said his description is very unreliable. Martin know this yet he continues and all in his search for the truth.

3:18


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 17, 2018, 06:40:28 PM
Quick question. Why, if Reed was operating in some intel capacity, did he drop his film off at a Dallas photo lab to be developed? Wouldn't he have had access to a 'private' lab for that?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 17, 2018, 06:53:34 PM
No choice? Not sure what you mean.

How do the photographs help with the alleged framing of LHO?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 17, 2018, 08:49:09 PM

This by itself sums up Martin.  He tries to make this point over and over and over again despite the fact that Frazier himself said his description is very unreliable. Martin know this yet he continues and all in his search for the truth.

3:18



Silly Brian.... confuses an estimate that can be unreliable and an firm observation about how Oswald carried the package. Frazier never said anything like that "his description is very unreliable".

That Bugs used the "you were not paying much attention" argument to get Frazier to agree to the purely hypothetical proposition that he would not have been able to see the bag if it had been protruding out on front of Oswald's body means very little to rational people. It did however show that Frazier was being honest in his testimony. Of course, he wouldn't have been able to see the bag if it had protruded out.

The problem is (and this is where Brian gets confused) that there is not a shred of evidence that the bag actually ever did protrude out. That's just something Bugs invented! Instead we have Frazier firmly on record that he saw Oswald carry the bag cupped in his hand and under his armpit.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 17, 2018, 09:20:14 PM
I don't know if an unsigned FBI letter counts as verification, but...

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0465b.htm (https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0465b.htm)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 18, 2018, 02:24:25 AM
::)

FFS... figure it out: People were likely inside watching/listening to the constant updates on the assassination. Or at work. Like Brewer, who was minding his own business. Not his fault that Oswald showed up.

Sure. So why did none of the numerous people in DP see him walking the seven blocks? Can you answer that question?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 18, 2018, 02:27:54 AM
How do you know he was not seen?

Tell me who saw him leave the TSBD and walk the 7 blocks.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Brian Walker on October 18, 2018, 04:41:44 AM
Tell me who saw him leave the TSBD and walk the 7 blocks.

You seriously don't get how it works do you. If I claimed he was seen during his 7 black walk than it would be on me to name who saw him. I did not claim that.  You are the one making the claim so you are the one who needs to back up claim.


 I will ask again. How do you know he was not seen while walking the 7 blocks?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Patrick Jackson on October 18, 2018, 01:07:54 PM
Is there a record on bus ticket serial numbers? When starting their shifts, bus drivers should write next ticket serial number into their drive log and also when finishing their shift they should write the serial number of last sold ticked. Same record should exist in bus depot when drivers were taking and returning the tickets. Is there a record of this serial numbers?
Not the first time that simple questions does not have answers. How could anybody believe that this was Oswald ticket without simple proofs and evidences. DPD, FBI, CIA... obviously done a disastrous investigation with aim to charge Oswald no matter what.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 18, 2018, 02:37:36 PM
You seriously don't get how it works do you. If I claimed he was seen during his 7 black walk than it would be on me to name who saw him. I did not claim that.  You are the one making the claim so you are the one who needs to back up claim.


 I will ask again. How do you know he was not seen while walking the 7 blocks?

You are defending claims made in 1964! When will you get this? The WC made claims first and you choose to defend them, thus, the onus is on *you*.

Stop shifting the burden. The WC claimed that LHO "probably" walked those 7 blocks so show that he did. Well?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 18, 2018, 07:18:49 PM
More information regarding the supposed bus ride by LHO following the assassination.

************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) would have liked to have had more than Mary Bledsoe to rely on for the identification on the bus Lee LHO Harvey Oswald (LHO) allegedly took when he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) shortly after the shots were fired (a bus that was HEADING BACK to Dealey Plaza (DP) by the way) because as we have seen previously in this series they could NOT show Bledsoe ever saw or knew LHO prior to 11/22/63.

Initially the Dallas Police Department (DPD) got Cecil McWatters to say he identified Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) as the man on his bus, but he quickly recanted this statement.  The WC and its defenders make a big deal about a bus transfer allegedly found on LHO (I have to say this because it was NOT found for some time after he was arrested and searched), but this transfer was EXPIRED by the time LHO reached his rooming house and he said he changed shirts.  So why would LHO bring an EXPIRED transfer with him?  Let's look at Cecil Mcwatters' testimony regarding the transfer.


*******************************************

Senator COOPER - Was the fact then that you were shown a transfer by the police that called your attention to that?

Mr. McWATTERS - I guess that would probably be--

Senator COOPER - Another man?

Mr. McWATTERS - That would probably be the reason. I don't know of any other reason that it would be unless it was the transfer, that I can recall.

Senator COOPER - Are you absolutely certain that you did see another man on that bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Do you mean the day?

Senator COOPER - A man other than the teenager?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I picked up a man.

Senator COOPER - Where?

Mr. McWATTERS - Along about Griffin Street that knocked on the door of the bus.

--------
Senator COOPER - Why was it then that when you made this affidavit, you wouldn't remember that a man knocked on the door to get in the bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Just like I say, I guess it never did dawn on me until I just got to thinking about it and everything, and I had this boy, I mean was the one I was referring to in that affidavit right there.

In other words, he was just kind of a slight build, so far as him and Oswald, I guess they probably somewhere in the same size, I don't know. But I was mistaken in that, in other words, that was the boy right there--

So we see he says he was mistaken for saying he gave a transfer to LHO.  Let's face it, this could have been a man involved in some way that got a transfer simply to pin on LHO later on to try and show he was on this bus.

Senator COOPER - What is it about this transfer that makes you know that it was a transfer which you issued?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, you look at that old punch mark, I guess as many times as I have punched it--

Senator COOPER - Does each--does each-driver have a different punch?

Mr. BALL - When you weren't here he showed us his punch and he punched it for us. He has got his punch.

Mr. McWATTERS - Each driver has a different punch. They all are registered. In other words, regardless of how many there are--that is my punch right there--there is some shape or form different, just like I say the superintendent has every man's name and a punch mark right on down, in other words, so when-

First of all, it is quite annoying the way McWatters was constantly cut off.  Secondly, we see the transfer in evidence came from McWatters' punch gun, but since there is NO chain of custody for the transfer this is meaningless in tying it to LHO.  Furthermore, the man who would have given out this transfer said it was NOT LHO too.

It becomes clear that McWatters initially confused LHO for a teenager he has on his bus a lot.  Milton Jones.


Senator COOPER - Have you ever reported to the police the fact that you have carried as a passenger since November 22d the teenager whom you have now identified as having the name of Milton Jones?

Mr. McWATTERS - Did I ever report it to the police?

Senator COOPER - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Senator COOPER - Have they ever been back to talk to you any more about this?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

I wonder why the police never followed up with him?

Senator COOPER - Have you seen photographs of a man who is named in those photographs as being Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Have I saw them?

Senator COOPER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Well, now, you have seen this young man, Milton Jones, several times since then?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Now after having seen him several times since then, and having seen these photographs of the man who is identified as Lee Oswald--

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Senator COOPER - Does Milton Jones look like Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they both, just like I say, about the same height, and same build, and everything, as far as identifying looking at a man in the face of course, I know him now, distinctly.

So we see why he confused Jones for LHO on the day of the assassination.  Now for the issue of whether he would say LHO was on the bus and whether he gave him a transfer as the WC would claim.

Mr. BALL - You didn't--as I understand it, when you were at the police lineup, you told us that you didn't--weren't able to identify this man in the lineup as the man who got off, that you gave the transfer to.

Mr. McWATTERS - I told them to the best of my knowledge, I said the man that I picked out was the same height, about the same height, weight and description. But as far as actually saying that is the man I couldn't--

Mr. BALL - You couldn't do it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it now.

"This man" of course was LHO as they mention the "number 2 man" in other parts of the testimony.  We see that McWatters would NOT say the man who boarded his bus and got a transfer was LHO.  Again, we see the WC, and its defenders, have NO supporting evidence for their claims.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 18, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
More information regarding the supposed bus ride by LHO following the assassination.

************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) would have liked to have had more than Mary Bledsoe to rely on for the identification on the bus Lee LHO Harvey Oswald (LHO) allegedly took when he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) shortly after the shots were fired (a bus that was HEADING BACK to Dealey Plaza (DP) by the way) because as we have seen previously in this series they could NOT show Bledsoe ever saw or knew LHO prior to 11/22/63.

Initially the Dallas Police Department (DPD) got Cecil McWatters to say he identified Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) as the man on his bus, but he quickly recanted this statement.  The WC and its defenders make a big deal about a bus transfer allegedly found on LHO (I have to say this because it was NOT found for some time after he was arrested and searched), but this transfer was EXPIRED by the time LHO reached his rooming house and he said he changed shirts.  So why would LHO bring an EXPIRED transfer with him?  Let's look at Cecil Mcwatters' testimony regarding the transfer.


*******************************************

Senator COOPER - Was the fact then that you were shown a transfer by the police that called your attention to that?

Mr. McWATTERS - I guess that would probably be--

Senator COOPER - Another man?

-----Blah blah blah Warren Commission stuff...-----


How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 18, 2018, 11:26:23 PM
How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM

you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated


Hmmm? perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did Rob say that?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 18, 2018, 11:42:43 PM
you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated


Hmmm? perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did Rob say that?

Nice, isolate part of my quote without context and invent your own misrepresentation, typical!

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 18, 2018, 11:53:29 PM

Nice, isolate part of my quote without context and invent your own misrepresentation, typical!

JohnM

To avoid confusion; is it your quote or are you claiming to quote Rob?

If it is a quote from you, doesn't that mean you made it up?

And if it is a quote from Rob shouldn't you be able to show it?

And how can I misrepresent a quote when I am merely asking a question?

But let's clear this up right now, shall we? Did Rob Caprio ever say (as you claim) "that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated" or not?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 12:16:26 AM
How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM

Have I ever claimed or stated to know what happened exactly? I don't think so. It shows that a cover-up took place though and that means a conspiracy.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 12:18:05 AM
you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated


Hmmm? perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did Rob say that?

Thanks for noticing Martin as I never did. Mytton likes to make things up.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 12:19:10 AM
To avoid confusion; is it your quote or are you claiming to quote Rob?

If it is a quote from you, doesn't that mean you made it up?

And if it is a quote from Rob shouldn't you be able to show it?

And how can I misrepresent a quote when I am merely asking a question?

But let's clear this up right now, shall we? Did Rob Caprio ever say (as you claim) "that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated" or not?


Quote
But let's clear this up right now, shall we? Did Rob Caprio ever say (as you claim) "that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated" or not?

Hilarious you inadvertently have proven me right, when you quoted me you correctly used "quotation marks" but where did I "quote" Caprio?

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 12:19:30 AM
Nice, isolate part of my quote without context and invent your own misrepresentation, typical!

JohnM

You mean like you did? Typical indeed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 19, 2018, 12:35:52 AM
Hilarious you inadvertently have proven me right, when you quoted me you correctly used "quotation marks" but where did I "quote" Caprio?

JohnM

Pathetic,


How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 12:50:11 AM
Pathetic,

Ok, we agree to disagree.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 19, 2018, 03:02:11 AM
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0465b.htm (https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0465b.htm)
According to the witness [Milton Jones] account..."Oswald"? was about 30-35 yrs old.. 5 ft 11"....wearing a blue jacket...also, the bus was 'held up for about an hour by the police'

 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 04:20:24 AM
...also, the bus was 'held up for about an hour by the police'

Mr. McWATTERS - You can just take the whole thing.
Mr. BALL - All right. We will have a Xerox of this and mark it 378, a Xerox copy.
Will you identify that document and tell me what it is?
The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 378, for identification.)
Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.
Mr. BALL - That is for the Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood-Munger run?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.
Mr. BALL - Run 1213. Is this the run schedule that was in effect on November 22, 1963?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is correct.


(https://i.postimg.cc/jq9bLBfS/ce378.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 04:23:48 AM
Ok, we agree to disagree.

JohnM

Mytton misrepresents what others say quite a bit.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 04:29:28 AM

Yes the evidence confirms that a conspiracy took place but it doesn't show everyone involved in the planning, execution and cover-up.


So Rob, you've authored over 400 threads detailing what conspiracy took place and with all that information you're still clueless to what actually happened, is that right?

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 04:36:55 AM
There is no supporting evidence for the bus or cab rides. None.

This is why nobody takes you seriously, Oswald himself admitted boarding a bus and he had the Bus transfer in his possession.

 :'(

Mr. BALL. I don't want you to say he admitted the transfer. I want you to tell me what he said about the transfer.
Mr. FRITZ. He told he that was the transfer the busdriver had given him when he caught the bus to go home. But he had told me if you will remember in our previous conversation that he rode the bus or on North Beckley and had walked home but in the meantime, sometime had told me about him riding a cab.
So, when I asked him about a cab ride if he had ridden in a cab he said yes, he had, he told me wrong about the bus, he had rode a cab. He said the reason he changed, that he rode the bus for a short distance, and the crowd was so heavy and traffic was so bad that he got out and caught a cab, and I asked him some other questions about the cab and I asked him what happened there when he caught the cab and he said there was a lady trying to catch a cab and he told the busdriver, the busdriver told him to tell the lady to catch the cab behind him and he said he rode that cab over near his home, he rode home in a cab.


And Bookout.

Mr. STERN - Yes. Did he ever complain that, "We have been over that ground before," or make any such statement?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - No; I don't recall anything along that line, but I can recall one subject matter probably in the first interview where he talked about his method of transportation after leaving the Texas Book Depository, having gotten on a bus, and then that subject was taken up again, as I recall, in the second interview, expressed the same answer at that time, and then subsequently to that interview he backed up and said that it wasn't actually true as to how he got home. That he had taken a bus, and due to the traffic jam he had left the bus and got a taxicab, by which means he actually arrived at his residence.


(https://i.postimg.cc/1zKCwVYK/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 19, 2018, 09:06:34 AM
Ok, we agree to disagree.

JohnM

There is nothing to disagree about.

You have attributed words to Rob Caprio which he never wrote or said in other to make a flawed strawman argument and ever since you have been trying to weasel your way out of it.

That's just simply pathetic, whether you agree with it or not.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 09:24:31 AM
There is nothing to disagree about.

You have attributed words to Rob Caprio which he never wrote or said in other to make a flawed strawman argument and ever since you have been trying to weasel your way out of it.

That's just simply pathetic, whether you agree with it or not.

Wow are you seriously deranged or what, calm down or you gonna bust a poofoo valve.

Since I didn't use any quotation marks all we are left with is your self serving guesses based on your severe lack of comprehension.

Slowly for the dummies, how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?

How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM

Btw if you reply take the time to have a Bex and a good lie down.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 09:34:52 AM
There is nothing to disagree about.

You have attributed words to Rob Caprio which he never wrote or said.....

How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM

 8)

Oops!

(https://i.postimg.cc/G3VVWsWz/caprio-lies.jpg)

Try again.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Patrick Jackson on October 19, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
Mr. BALL - Run 1213. Is this the run schedule that was in effect on November 22, 1963?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is correct.[/b]

(https://i.postimg.cc/jq9bLBfS/ce378.jpg)

JohnM

How Run 1213 can be effect on 11/22/63 when it clearly states 6-4-62 on the sheet???
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 19, 2018, 09:57:47 AM
Mytton misrepresents what others say quite a bit.
Yeah, I'll say..he had quoted me as stating [like it was a fact] something that someone else [Milton Jones] had reported [Ego Trip Reply #72]
How Run 1213 can be effect on 11/22/63 when it clearly states 6-4-62 on the sheet???
I was wondering the same thing.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 10:05:20 AM
Yeah, I'll say..he had quoted me as stating [like it was a fact] something that someone else [Milton Jones] had reported [Ego Trip Reply #72]

Why do all you CTs think you're so damn important, nobody cares what you say, I gave no opinion and only supplied evidence of McWatters time schedule and you take offence, get a life!

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 19, 2018, 10:23:12 AM
How Run 1213 can be effect on 11/22/63 when it clearly states 6-4-62 on the sheet???

Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jq9bLBfS/ce378.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 19, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
... nobody cares what you say... get a life!
Posts twice as much as anyone here and then says 'get a life'. Boo Hoo Hoo :'(
Ever notice how trolls have to come back with another last word?
So, you 'care what I said'...admit it.

To the point...that bus record was not really introduced as the official route of Nov 22 63.
It was just like the driver said... a bus schedule
Quote
Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.
Mr. BALL - That is for the Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood-Munger run?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.
Mr. BALL - Run 1213. Is this the run schedule that was in effect on November 22, 1963?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. BALL - It shows here at St. Paul you were to leave at 12:36; is that correct?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.
I see that PJ has caught that one also. Bus 1213 was definitely delayed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 19, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
Wow are you seriously deranged or what, calm down or you gonna bust a poofoo valve.

Since I didn't use any quotation marks all we are left with is your self serving guesses based on your severe lack of comprehension.

Slowly for the dummies, how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?

Btw if you reply take the time to have a Bex and a good lie down.

JohnM

Watch the weasel squirm?.

how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?


All of it between the two komma's and prior to you asking a question!


How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM


Desperate for a way out, Johnny is now trying to spin this thing by suggesting that only the first part (about the FBI and WC altering testimony, which is something Rob did indeed say) was a quote from him and the second part ("therefor the entire work is contaminated") somehow wasn't.

The problem for Johnny is that the question he asked clearly reveals that by "any of this tainted evidence" he means "the entire work" that is contaminated. So, not some of it, but all of it. This is beyond obvious because if only parts of the material of the FBI and WC were "contaminated" his question would make no sense.  In other words, he needed to attribute the quote (including "the entire contamined work" bit) to Rob Caprio to be able to ask the question!

Besides, if the bit about the "entire contaminated work" is not an (alleged) quote from Rob Caprio, as Johnny now claims, then where does it come from, who said it and why is it included in a question directed at Rob Caprio?

Now let?s watch the weasel squirm some more?.


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Patrick Jackson on October 19, 2018, 03:14:00 PM
Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jq9bLBfS/ce378.jpg)

JohnM
OK, I understand, this might be bus schedule like summer and winter schedule or schedule that will be effective from 6-4-62 until new schedule approved. But still it does not have sense it is 62. No sense this evidence has anything to do with 11/22/63.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 07:51:44 PM
So Rob, you've authored over 400 threads detailing what conspiracy took place and with all that information you're still clueless to what actually happened, is that right?

JohnM

Once again, that is not what I said. Why do you constantly misrepresent what other people say if you speak the truth as you claim?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:01:58 PM
This is why nobody takes you seriously, Oswald himself admitted boarding a bus and he had the Bus transfer in his possession.

 :'(

Mr. BALL. I don't want you to say he admitted the transfer. I want you to tell me what he said about the transfer.
Mr. FRITZ. He told he that was the transfer the busdriver had given him when he caught the bus to go home. But he had told me if you will remember in our previous conversation that he rode the bus or on North Beckley and had walked home but in the meantime, sometime had told me about him riding a cab.
So, when I asked him about a cab ride if he had ridden in a cab he said yes, he had, he told me wrong about the bus, he had rode a cab. He said the reason he changed, that he rode the bus for a short distance, and the crowd was so heavy and traffic was so bad that he got out and caught a cab, and I asked him some other questions about the cab and I asked him what happened there when he caught the cab and he said there was a lady trying to catch a cab and he told the busdriver, the busdriver told him to tell the lady to catch the cab behind him and he said he rode that cab over near his home, he rode home in a cab.


And Bookout.

Mr. STERN - Yes. Did he ever complain that, "We have been over that ground before," or make any such statement?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - No; I don't recall anything along that line, but I can recall one subject matter probably in the first interview where he talked about his method of transportation after leaving the Texas Book Depository, having gotten on a bus, and then that subject was taken up again, as I recall, in the second interview, expressed the same answer at that time, and then subsequently to that interview he backed up and said that it wasn't actually true as to how he got home. That he had taken a bus, and due to the traffic jam he had left the bus and got a taxicab, by which means he actually arrived at his residence.


(https://i.postimg.cc/1zKCwVYK/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM

It is funny that you would use those resources since they show that LHO said that he took a bus to his rooming house if valid.

***************************************

This one is short and sweet regarding the issue of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) taking a cab to his rooming house following his departure from the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building.

Note -- I should also state that the PURPOSE of this series is to show the CLAIMS of the WC are NOT supported by the actual evidence.  This series is NOT about my opinions, beliefs, or anything else regarding my thoughts.  I need to make this clear since several LNers are misleading folks as to my motive for this series!


********************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and took a bus AND A CAB to get to his rooming house room to retrieve the pistol and jacket.  But as John Mytton showed Captain Will Fritz testified to something else LHO said he did!

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

IF one believes this testimony, and LNers have to, it shows us LHO said he took the BUS NEAR TO WHERE HE WAS STAYING, and NEVER took a cab as the WC claimed! Thus, their conclusion is sunk again.

**************************************************************

McWatters, the guy driving the supposed bus LHO took per the WC, said that LHO was NEVER on his bus.

*********************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) would have liked to have had more than Mary Bledsoe to rely on for the identification on the bus Lee LHO Harvey Oswald (LHO) allegedly took when he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) shortly after the shots were fired (a bus that was HEADING BACK to Dealey Plaza (DP) by the way) because as we have seen previously in this series they could NOT show Bledsoe ever saw or knew LHO prior to 11/22/63.

Initially the Dallas Police Department (DPD) got Cecil McWatters to say he identified Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) as the man on his bus, but he quickly recanted this statement.  The WC and its defenders make a big deal about a bus transfer allegedly found on LHO (I have to say this because it was NOT found for some time after he was arrested and searched), but this transfer was EXPIRED by the time LHO reached his rooming house and he said he changed shirts.  So why would LHO bring an EXPIRED transfer with him?  Let's look at Cecil Mcwatters' testimony regarding the transfer.


*******************************************

Senator COOPER - Was the fact then that you were shown a transfer by the police that called your attention to that?

Mr. McWATTERS - I guess that would probably be--

Senator COOPER - Another man?

Mr. McWATTERS - That would probably be the reason. I don't know of any other reason that it would be unless it was the transfer, that I can recall.

Senator COOPER - Are you absolutely certain that you did see another man on that bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Do you mean the day?

Senator COOPER - A man other than the teenager?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I picked up a man.

Senator COOPER - Where?

Mr. McWATTERS - Along about Griffin Street that knocked on the door of the bus.

--------
Senator COOPER - Why was it then that when you made this affidavit, you wouldn't remember that a man knocked on the door to get in the bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Just like I say, I guess it never did dawn on me until I just got to thinking about it and everything, and I had this boy, I mean was the one I was referring to in that affidavit right there.

In other words, he was just kind of a slight build, so far as him and Oswald, I guess they probably somewhere in the same size, I don't know. But I was mistaken in that, in other words, that was the boy right there--

So we see he says he was mistaken for saying he gave a transfer to LHO.  Let's face it, this could have been a man involved in some way that got a transfer simply to pin on LHO later on to try and show he was on this bus.

Senator COOPER - What is it about this transfer that makes you know that it was a transfer which you issued?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, you look at that old punch mark, I guess as many times as I have punched it--

Senator COOPER - Does each--does each-driver have a different punch?

Mr. BALL - When you weren't here he showed us his punch and he punched it for us. He has got his punch.

Mr. McWATTERS - Each driver has a different punch. They all are registered. In other words, regardless of how many there are--that is my punch right there--there is some shape or form different, just like I say the superintendent has every man's name and a punch mark right on down, in other words, so when-

First of all, it is quite annoying the way McWatters was constantly cut off.  Secondly, we see the transfer in evidence came from McWatters' punch gun, but since there is NO chain of custody for the transfer this is meaningless in tying it to LHO.  Furthermore, the man who would have given out this transfer said it was NOT LHO too.

It becomes clear that McWatters initially confused LHO for a teenager he has on his bus a lot.  Milton Jones.


Senator COOPER - Have you ever reported to the police the fact that you have carried as a passenger since November 22d the teenager whom you have now identified as having the name of Milton Jones?

Mr. McWATTERS - Did I ever report it to the police?

Senator COOPER - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Senator COOPER - Have they ever been back to talk to you any more about this?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

I wonder why the police never followed up with him?

Senator COOPER - Have you seen photographs of a man who is named in those photographs as being Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Have I saw them?

Senator COOPER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Well, now, you have seen this young man, Milton Jones, several times since then?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Now after having seen him several times since then, and having seen these photographs of the man who is identified as Lee Oswald--

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Senator COOPER - Does Milton Jones look like Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they both, just like I say, about the same height, and same build, and everything, as far as identifying looking at a man in the face of course, I know him now, distinctly.

So we see why he confused Jones for LHO on the day of the assassination.  Now for the issue of whether he would say LHO was on the bus and whether he gave him a transfer as the WC would claim.

Mr. BALL - You didn't--as I understand it, when you were at the police lineup, you told us that you didn't--weren't able to identify this man in the lineup as the man who got off, that you gave the transfer to.

Mr. McWATTERS - I told them to the best of my knowledge, I said the man that I picked out was the same height, about the same height, weight and description. But as far as actually saying that is the man I couldn't--

Mr. BALL - You couldn't do it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it now.

"This man" of course was LHO as they mention the "number 2 man" in other parts of the testimony.  We see that McWatters would NOT say the man who boarded his bus and got a transfer was LHO.  Again, we see the WC, and its defenders, have NO supporting evidence for their claims.

**********************************************

I'll let others decide who to take seriously.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:06:25 PM
8)

Oops!

(https://i.postimg.cc/G3VVWsWz/caprio-lies.jpg)

Try again.

JohnM

You try again as that doesn't say the FBI contaminated the whole case as you falsely attributed to me. You're digging your hole deeper.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:08:45 PM
Why do all you CTs think you're so damn important, nobody cares what you say, I gave no opinion and only supplied evidence of McWatters time schedule and you take offence, get a life!

JohnM

Mytton put forth evidence and misrepresented it once again. Nothing new there.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jq9bLBfS/ce378.jpg)

JohnM

What does a bus schedule from June 4, 1962, have to do with November 22, 1963?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:13:10 PM
Watch the weasel squirm?.

how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?


All of it between the two komma's and prior to you asking a question!


Desperate for a way out, Johnny is now trying to spin this thing by suggesting that only the first part (about the FBI and WC altering testimony, which is something Rob did indeed say) was a quote from him and the second part ("therefor the entire work is contaminated") somehow wasn't.

The problem for Johnny is that the question he asked clearly reveals that by "any of this tainted evidence" he means "the entire work" that is contaminated. So, not some of it, but all of it. This is beyond obvious because if only parts of the material of the FBI and WC were "contaminated" his question would make no sense.  In other words, he needed to attribute the quote (including "the entire contamined work" bit) to Rob Caprio to be able to ask the question!

Besides, if the bit about the "entire contaminated work" is not an (alleged) quote from Rob Caprio, as Johnny now claims, then where does it come from, who said it and why is it included in a question directed at Rob Caprio?

Now let?s watch the weasel squirm some more?.

He does this constantly and then has the gall to discuss other peoples' credibility.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 19, 2018, 08:15:32 PM
OK, I understand, this might be bus schedule like summer and winter schedule or schedule that will be effective from 6-4-62 until new schedule approved. But still it does not have sense it is 62. No sense this evidence has anything to do with 11/22/63.

You're right Patrick. This shows the dishonesty needed to support the official theory. This tells us all we need to know about the validity of that theory. Good catch.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 09:23:40 AM

He does this constantly and then has the gall to discuss other peoples' credibility.


Well, he seems to be running from this one, in much the same way as he ran from the discussion about CE399 ever being at Parkland Hospital.

No credibility whatsoever!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 10:59:09 AM
You try again as that doesn't say the FBI contaminated the whole case as you falsely attributed to me. You're digging your hole deeper.

Your quote says that the FBI altered evidence and if you truly believe that you have provided proof that they actually altered evidence then how could you possibly trust anything that was presented by the FBI therefore the entire case is contaminated and if this is not what you are trying to say then what possible incentive do you have for bringing up these tiny isolated anomalies in the first place??

Anyway look at it this way, if I find a single turd in my swimming pool then the entire pool is contaminated and needs to be emptied and disinfected but it appears that you would rather swim with your turd, fair enough!


JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 11:18:25 AM
Watch the weasel squirm?.

how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?


All of it between the two komma's and prior to you asking a question!


Desperate for a way out, Johnny is now trying to spin this thing by suggesting that only the first part (about the FBI and WC altering testimony, which is something Rob did indeed say) was a quote from him and the second part ("therefor the entire work is contaminated") somehow wasn't.

The problem for Johnny is that the question he asked clearly reveals that by "any of this tainted evidence" he means "the entire work" that is contaminated. So, not some of it, but all of it. This is beyond obvious because if only parts of the material of the FBI and WC were "contaminated" his question would make no sense.  In other words, he needed to attribute the quote (including "the entire contamined work" bit) to Rob Caprio to be able to ask the question!

Besides, if the bit about the "entire contaminated work" is not an (alleged) quote from Rob Caprio, as Johnny now claims, then where does it come from, who said it and why is it included in a question directed at Rob Caprio?

Now let?s watch the weasel squirm some more?.

Quote
All of it between the two komma's and prior to you asking a question!

You're literally reinventing grammar to cover your ass, hilarious!

JohnM


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 11:31:54 AM
Mytton put forth evidence and misrepresented it once again. Nothing new there.

No worries Rob, how about you stick to your bizarre theories like Ruby firing blanks and Oswald's pubic hairs and let the big boys discuss what actually happened.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 12:17:40 PM
You're literally reinventing grammar to cover your ass, hilarious!

JohnM

Projection (Psychological)

1) An unconscious self-defence mechanism characterised by a person unconsciously attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial.

2) A way to blame others for your own negative thoughts by repressing them and then attributing them to someone else. Due to the sorrowful nature of delusion and denial it is very difficult for the target to be able to clarify the reality of the situation.

3) A way to transfer guilt for your own thoughts, emotions and actions onto another as a way of not admitting your guilt to yourself.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Projection
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
Projection (Psychological)

1) An unconscious self-defence mechanism characterised by a person unconsciously attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial.

2) A way to blame others for your own negative thoughts by repressing them and then attributing them to someone else. Due to the sorrowful nature of delusion and denial it is very difficult for the target to be able to clarify the reality of the situation.

3) A way to transfer guilt for your own thoughts, emotions and actions onto another as a way of not admitting your guilt to yourself.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Projection

The urbandictionary? You clearly have nothing left Weidmann, I never used "quotes" and when you're not heavily editing my post the context of the question I asked Caprio who by definition must know what he himself has posted, is a question that needs to be answered and btw the fact that Caprio needs you as an attack dog to help him extract himself from his self inflicted mess is beyond desperate.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 12:58:41 PM

The urbandictionary? You clearly have nothing left Weidmann, I never used "quotes" and when you're not heavily editing my post the context of the question I asked Caprio who by definition must know what he himself has posted, is a question that needs to be answered and btw the fact that Caprio needs you as an attack dog to help him extract himself from his self inflicted mess is beyond desperate.

JohnM

when you're not heavily editing my post

When nothing else works, just lie.... right Johnny? Show me where I ever edited your post!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 01:52:11 PM
when you're not heavily editing my post

When nothing else works, just lie.... right Johnny? Show me where I ever edited your post!

Without context, you can present the abridged cherry picked version just so you can deceitfully insinuate whatever you like.

you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated


Hmmm? perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did Rob say that?

What I actually said.

How does this work Caprio?, you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated, how can you justify using any of this tainted evidence as proof of what actually happened?

JohnM

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 09:11:21 PM
Without context, you can present the abridged cherry picked version just so you can deceitfully insinuate whatever you like.

What I actually said.

JohnM

Go back to my reply (message # 59 - click below) and you will see I actually quoted the entire text and then highlighted for clarity the part I wanted to ask a question about.


you say that the FBI and the WC altered testimony therefore the entire work is contaminated

Hmmm? perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did Rob say that?

So, once again you lie and misrepresent the facts. But then, what else is new?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 09:31:05 PM
Go back to my reply (message # 59 - click below) and you will see I actually quoted the entire text and then highlighted for clarity the part I wanted to ask a question about.

So, once again you lie and misrepresent the facts. But then, what else is new?

Quote
and then highlighted...

Thanks for admitting it, you took my comment, stripped it of any context and deceitfully tried to create your own narrative from this heavily abridged version. Naughty naughty.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 09:42:34 PM

Thanks for admitting it, you took my comment, stripped it of any context and deceitfully tried to create your own narrative from this heavily abridged version. Naughty naughty.

JohnM

He says, after doing exactly the same but with bad intentions. Oh the irony of it.

But so much for the diversions..... now let's get back to the issue. You didn't think I would let this rest, did you?

You still haven't told us where the "therefore the entire work is contaminated" part came from if it wasn't a quote from Rob Caprio.

Remember this;

Watch the weasel squirm?.

how much of my post after "How does this work Caprio?, you say" can be attributed to Caprio, the first few words or all of it?


All of it between the two komma's and prior to you asking a question!


Desperate for a way out, Johnny is now trying to spin this thing by suggesting that only the first part (about the FBI and WC altering testimony, which is something Rob did indeed say) was a quote from him and the second part ("therefor the entire work is contaminated") somehow wasn't.

The problem for Johnny is that the question he asked clearly reveals that by "any of this tainted evidence" he means "the entire work" that is contaminated. So, not some of it, but all of it. This is beyond obvious because if only parts of the material of the FBI and WC were "contaminated" his question would make no sense.  In other words, he needed to attribute the quote (including "the entire contamined work" bit) to Rob Caprio to be able to ask the question!

Besides, if the bit about the "entire contaminated work" is not an (alleged) quote from Rob Caprio, as Johnny now claims, then where does it come from, who said it and why is it included in a question directed at Rob Caprio?

Now let?s watch the weasel squirm some more?.

Well, Johnny.... did you try to put words in Rob Caprio's mouth to ask an invalid question or not?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 10:08:54 PM
So much for the diversions..... now let's get back to the issue. You didn't think I would let this rest, did you?

You still haven't told us where the "therefore the entire work is contaminated" part came from if it wasn't a quote from Rob Caprio.

Remember this;

Well, Johnny.... did you try to put words in Rob Caprio's mouth to ask an invalid question or not?

Quote
So much for the diversions.....

Typical Weidmann, claim the evidence is a mere "diversion".

Quote
now let's get back to the issue.

I never left this issue.

Quote
You didn't think I would let this rest, did you?

Huh? Is this juvenile threat supposed scare me? LOL! I was the one who told you to "try again", so why would I expect you to rest? I'm actually enjoying exposing your lack of grammatical skills and watching you jump through my hoops is really neat.

Quote
You still haven't told us where the "therefore the entire work is contaminated" part came from if it wasn't a quote from Rob Caprio

Just how thick are you? The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me and since then we have established that I was right about Rob admitting that he believes that the FBI altered evidence which means that by definition anything handled by the FBI cannot be trusted and "therefore the entire work is contaminated"

Btw I look forward to your next post. keep it up!

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 20, 2018, 10:30:34 PM
Typical Weidmann, claim the evidence is a mere "diversion".

I never left this issue.

Huh? Is this juvenile threat supposed scare me? LOL! I was the one who told you to "try again", so why would I expect you to rest? I'm actually enjoying exposing your lack of grammatical skills and watching you jump through my hoops is really neat.

Just how thick are you? The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me and since then we have established that I was right about Rob admitting that he believes that the FBI altered evidence which means that by definition anything handled by the FBI cannot be trusted and "therefore the entire work is contaminated"

Btw I look forward to your next post. keep it up!

JohnM

The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me

Thanks for admitting that you presented a pathetic conclusion of your own as an alleged quote to Rob Caprio!

That's all I wanted to hear from you. I'm glad you've finally admitted to your dishonesty.   Thumb1:
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 20, 2018, 10:50:53 PM
The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me

Thanks for admitting that you presented a pathetic conclusion of your own as an alleged quote to Rob Caprio!

That's all I wanted to hear from you. I'm glad you've finally admitted to your dishonesty.   Thumb1:

Since I never used quotation marks and I never once said that I quoted Caprio verbatim then clearly my initial post was simply seeking clarification for Caprio's views and this innocent request was further reinforced by my asking a question so as to give Caprio a fair a chance at a response.

Quote
That's all I wanted to hear from you.

We'll see?

Quote
I'm glad you've finally admitted to your dishonesty.

The fact that you have trouble with the English language isn't my problem.

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
Well, he seems to be running from this one, in much the same way as he ran from the discussion about CE399 ever being at Parkland Hospital.

No credibility whatsoever!

I agree.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 02:55:32 AM
Your quote says that the FBI altered evidence and if you truly believe that you have provided proof that they actually altered evidence then how could you possibly trust anything that was presented by the FBI therefore the entire case is contaminated and if this is not what you are trying to say then what possible incentive do you have for bringing up these tiny isolated anomalies in the first place??

Anyway look at it this way, if I find a single turd in my swimming pool then the entire pool is contaminated and needs to be emptied and disinfected but it appears that you would rather swim with your turd, fair enough!


JohnM

I think your hole is really deep. I didn't say what you attributed to me. Just admit that you once again made up something and attributed to someone else.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 02:58:15 AM
No worries Rob, how about you stick to your bizarre theories like Ruby firing blanks and Oswald's pubic hairs and let the big boys discuss what actually happened.

JohnM

Ruby firing blanks wasn't MY theory. You can't tell the truth about anything. You aren't a big boy in anything regarding the JFK assassination. Your lack of knowledge of the evidence is overwhelming.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:03:00 AM
The urbandictionary? You clearly have nothing left Weidmann, I never used "quotes" and when you're not heavily editing my post the context of the question I asked Caprio who by definition must know what he himself has posted, is a question that needs to be answered and btw the fact that Caprio needs you as an attack dog to help him extract himself from his self inflicted mess is beyond desperate.

JohnM

Hilarious. You attributed something to me that I never said, but somehow I need help "extracting myself" from some mess that I never created.

You were dishonest. Just admit it.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:06:26 AM
Thanks for admitting it, you took my comment, stripped it of any context and deceitfully tried to create your own narrative from this heavily abridged version. Naughty naughty.

JohnM

Says the guy who made up a statement and attributed it me and then further lied by saying that I needed to extract myself from the mess his false statement attributed to me created. Talk about layers of deception.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:09:34 AM
Typical Weidmann, claim the evidence is a mere "diversion".

I never left this issue.

Huh? Is this juvenile threat supposed scare me? LOL! I was the one who told you to "try again", so why would I expect you to rest? I'm actually enjoying exposing your lack of grammatical skills and watching you jump through my hoops is really neat.

Just how thick are you? The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me and since then we have established that I was right about Rob admitting that he believes that the FBI altered evidence which means that by definition anything handled by the FBI cannot be trusted and "therefore the entire work is contaminated"

Btw I look forward to your next post. keep it up!

JohnM

You're lying to lay your comment at my feet.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:10:30 AM
The "therefore the entire work is contaminated" when read with the surrounding context is obviously from me

Thanks for admitting that you presented a pathetic conclusion of your own as an alleged quote to Rob Caprio!

That's all I wanted to hear from you. I'm glad you've finally admitted to your dishonesty.   Thumb1:

👍
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:12:22 AM
Since I never used quotation marks and I never once said that I quoted Caprio verbatim then clearly my initial post was simply seeking clarification for Caprio's views and this innocent request was further reinforced by my asking a question so as to give Caprio a fair a chance at a response.

We'll see?

The fact that you have trouble with the English language isn't my problem.

JohnM

Your eyes must be brown because you are full of you know what.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 03:17:30 AM
Ruby firing blanks wasn't MY theory. You can't tell the truth about anything. You aren't a big boy in anything regarding the JFK assassination. Your lack of knowledge of the evidence is overwhelming.

Quote
Ruby firing blanks wasn't MY theory.

Then why endorse it?

I presented research that went outside the box (i.e. two posts looked at the issue of Jack Ruby using blanks on LHO, Marina Oswald having a double, LHO never spent time on Neeley Street, etc...) so I am not against this type of stuff.

Quote
You can't tell the truth about anything.

Well considering you have been thrown off numerous Forum's and have had all of your posts removed from here, that says a lot about your integrity.

Quote
You aren't a big boy in anything regarding the JFK assassination.

At least I have all the answers whereas you're just a disinfo agent.

Quote
Your lack of knowledge of the evidence is overwhelming.

You wish.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:37:16 AM
Then why endorse it?

Well considering you have been thrown off numerous Forum's and have had all of your posts removed from here, that says a lot about your integrity.

At least I have all the answers whereas you're just a disinfo agent.

You wish.

JohnM

Who said that I endorsed it? Why can't you cite the ballistic report that shows Ruby's pistol was the murder weapon of LHO?

Those actions say nothing about my integrity and instead show that the actual evidence sinks the WC's conclusion. That is why you didn't want it on this forum. It is interesting that a guy caught lying about what other people said would continue to talk about credibility and integrity. Hilarious.

Sure, I am the disinfo agent when I use the actual evidence. Good one.

You wish.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 03:37:42 AM
Your eyes must be brown because you are full of you know what.

This is seriously messed up, you make accusations that you supposedly know that the FBI altered evidence and now you want to play dumb as if your accusations go nowhere. It's no wonder you have no answers.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:39:16 AM
This is seriously messed up, you make accusations that you supposedly know that the FBI altered evidence and now you want to play dumb as if your accusations go nowhere. It's no wonder you have no answers.

JohnM

You lied. End of story.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 03:50:47 AM
Who said that I endorsed it? Why can't you cite the ballistic report that shows Ruby's pistol was the murder weapon of LHO?

Those actions say nothing about my integrity and instead show that the actual evidence sinks the WC's conclusion. That is why you didn't want it on this forum. It is interesting that a guy caught lying about what other people said would continue to talk about credibility and integrity. Hilarious.

Sure, I am the disinfo agent when I use the actual evidence. Good one.

You wish.

Quote
Who said that I endorsed it? Why can't you cite the ballistic report that shows Ruby's pistol was the murder weapon of LHO?

Why even post it, all you want is anarchy.

Quote
Those actions say nothing about my integrity and instead show that the actual evidence sinks the WC's conclusion

I have never been thrown off any Forum because I don't lie.

Quote
That is why you didn't want it on this forum.

Another lie, I never wanted your posts deleted from this Forum, I merely requested that your threads deserved their own sub-section.

Quote
It is interesting that a guy caught lying about what other people said would continue to talk about credibility and integrity.

Your integrity takes another beating, I never gave a "verbatim quote" and furthermore in support of my post I supplied evidence that Rob Caprio claimed that the FBI altered evidence.

Quote
Sure, I am the disinfo agent when I use the actual evidence. Good one.

Who are you trying to kid, when do you use any supporting evidence?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 03:57:18 AM
You lied. End of story.

Sorry Rob, you said that the FBI altered testimony, live with it!

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4TZxd4F/caprio-lies.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:23:20 PM
Why even post it, all you want is anarchy.

I have never been thrown off any Forum because I don't lie.

Another lie, I never wanted your posts deleted from this Forum, I merely requested that your threads deserved their own sub-section.

Your integrity takes another beating, I never gave a "verbatim quote" and furthermore in support of my post I supplied evidence that Rob Caprio claimed that the FBI altered evidence.

Who are you trying to kid, when do you use any supporting evidence?

JohnM

You lied about what I said. End of story. Your pathetic attempt at diversion involving credibility and other forums (how would Mytton know what happened there?) won't work. You displayed your true character better than I ever could.

You never called for any "sub-section" for my series. If you did then quote it. Your goal was to have it removed. Why does the evidence scare you so much?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 03:28:10 PM
Back to the topic  -- can any LNer quote/cite a witness who saw LHO leave the TSBD by the front door and walk the 7 blocks the WC said he "probably" did?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 06:41:56 PM
You lied about what I said. End of story. Your pathetic attempt at diversion involving credibility and other forums (how would Mytton know what happened there?) won't work. You displayed your true character better than I ever could.

You never called for any "sub-section" for my series. If you did then quote it. Your goal was to have it removed. Why does the evidence scare you so much?

Quote
You lied about what I said. End of story.

You said and endorsed that the FBI altered evidence and here's proof, stop running.

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4TZxd4F/caprio-lies.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/05SFwSfh/more-caprio-lies.jpg)

Quote
Your pathetic attempt at diversion involving credibility and other forums (how would Mytton know what happened there?) won't work.

This community isn't exactly huge and word gets around, you were removed from various Forums and that's that.

Quote
You displayed your true character better than I ever could.

Really??, I supplied proof to support my allegation and all you have is a deliberate misinterpretation of my post.

Quote
You never called for any "sub-section" for my series.

Hello, which Caprio am I speaking to? I made a thread with a poll about adding a Caprio sub-section which has since been removed and not long after all your posts were removed.

Quote
If you did then quote it.

Ask Duncan.

Quote
Your goal was to have it removed.

Yes it was because you were flooding the Forum with unreadable cherry picked crap, good riddance.
You do it everywhere.

(https://i.postimg.cc/28SzFTKV/robs-spam.jpg)

Quote
Why does the evidence scare you so much?

Hahaha.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 21, 2018, 10:40:38 PM
You said and endorsed that the FBI altered evidence and here's proof, stop running.

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4TZxd4F/caprio-lies.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/05SFwSfh/more-caprio-lies.jpg)

This community isn't exactly huge and word gets around, you were removed from various Forums and that's that.

Really??, I supplied proof to support my allegation and all you have is a deliberate misinterpretation of my post.

Hello, which Caprio am I speaking to? I made a thread with a poll about adding a Caprio sub-section which has since been removed and not long after all your posts were removed.

Ask Duncan.

Yes it was because you were flooding the Forum with unreadable cherry picked crap, good riddance.
You do it everywhere.

(https://i.postimg.cc/28SzFTKV/robs-spam.jpg)

Hahaha.

JohnM

You still can't answer the question of this thread, huh?  What small community are you talking about? You are exactly like May in that you claim to know everything going on in other forums. I couldn't tell you anything about other forums as I don't care. How many are you on?

My posts are loaded with evidence and that is what you really have an issue with. The evidence gets in the way of your falsehoods.

You edited that message as I never loaded 172 installments of my series on DP. If memory serves I only loaded a few before that message was posted. The real CTers had no problem with my series.

Facebook just deleted 251 alternate media sites and used the same spamming excuse.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 21, 2018, 11:18:25 PM
You still can't answer the question of this thread, huh?  What small community are you talking about? You are exactly like May in that you claim to know everything going on in other forums. I couldn't tell you anything about other forums as I don't care. How many are you on?

My posts are loaded with evidence and that is what you really have an issue with. The evidence get in the way of your falsehoods.

You edited that message as I never loaded 172 installments of my series on DP. If memory serves I only loaded a few before that message was posted. The real CTers had no problem with my series.

Facebook just deleted 251 alternate media sites and used the same spamming excuse.

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You still can't answer the question of this thread, huh?

Why would anyone have any reason to take notice of Oswald?

Quote
What small community are you talking about? You are exactly like May in that you claim to know everything going on in other forums. I couldn't tell you anything about other forums as I don't care. How many are you on?

This is real life and people talk because that's part of being human but for some reason this basic fact of life suddenly disappears when discussing the mountain of JFK conspirators.

Quote
You edited that message as I never loaded 172 installments of my series on DP. If memory serves I only loaded a few before that message was posted. The real CTers had no problem with my series.

Sorry.

https://deep politics forum.com/forums/showthread.php?12033-Statements-That-Sink-The-WC-s-Conclusions-1#.W8z5mXszZEY

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The real CTers had no problem with my series.

What's a real CTer?

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My posts are loaded with evidence and that is what you really have an issue with. The evidence get in the way of your falsehoods.

You only occasionally present evidence and even when you do as I have proven with your Fritz abridged testimony it's not always the full story.

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Facebook just deleted 251 alternate media sites and used the same spamming excuse.

What sites?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 22, 2018, 03:07:18 AM
Why would anyone have any reason to take notice of Oswald?

Then you are admitting that the WC's claim is UNSUPPORTED. That means he could have also gotten into an automobile to leave DP.

Quote
This is real life and people talk because that's part of being human but for some reason this basic fact of life suddenly disappears when discussing the mountain of JFK conspirators.

Sorry.

https://deep politics forum.com/forums/showthread.php?12033-Statements-That-Sink-The-WC-s-Conclusions-1#.W8z5mXszZEY

What's a real CTer?

You only occasionally present evidence and even when you do as I have proven with your Fritz abridged testimony it's not always the full story.

What sites?

JohnM

I didn't post 172 posts of my series on that board as I didn't even have that many finished in August 2013. Putting 464+ posts in one thread is the real spamming as no one will really be able to follow each post when you reach 50 or more. That is the real goal.

David Joseph was a disappointment as this series can teach CTers alot as I know this case pretty well and still learned a lot doing it. Why is showing exactly why the WC were incorrect "preaching to the choir?" If this philosophy applied to other things then why do CTers read books that show that there was a conspiracy? It makes no sense.

Real CTers are people who can cite the actual evidence (and not just quote testimony that was never exposed to cross-examination) and do not convert to being a LNer when they can't cite one piece of evidence that caused the conversion.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 22, 2018, 03:23:33 AM
Then you are admitting that the WC's claim is UNSUPPORTED. That means he could have also gotten into an automobile to leave DP.

I didn't post 172 posts of my series on that board as I didn't even have that many finished in August 2013. Putting 464+ posts in one thread is the real spamming as no one will really be able to follow each post when you reach 50 or more. That is the real goal.

David Joseph was a disappointment as this series can teach CTers alot as I know this case pretty well and still learned a lot doing it. Why is showing exactly why the WC were incorrect "preaching to the choir?" If this philosophy applied to other things then why do CTers read books that show that there was a conspiracy? It makes no sense.

Real CTers are people who can cite the actual evidence (and not just quote testimony that was never exposed to cross-examination) and do not convert to being a LNer when they can't cite one piece of evidence that caused the conversion.

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Then you are admitting that the WC's claim is UNSUPPORTED.

Huh?

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That means he could have also gotten into an automobile to leave DP.

Sure if;

Someone planted the Bus Transfer on Oswald
Bledsoe the day after went to the Dallas Police with accurate info that I'm not sure was public.
Whaley lied.
Fritz lied about what Oswald said
Bookout lied about what Oswald said.

Btw if Oswald did indeed get into what must have to be a getaway car then I would think that is pretty incriminating, what do you say?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Brian Walker on October 22, 2018, 05:28:53 AM

Silly Brian.... confuses an estimate that can be unreliable and an firm observation about how Oswald carried the package. Frazier never said anything like that "his description is very unreliable".

[

I see Martin is joking around again.

By him admitting that he barely paid attention to the bad and he could have been wrong about how he was carrying it is in fact admitting his description is unreliable.

Why would this have to be explained?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 22, 2018, 10:49:12 AM
I see Martin is joking around again.

By him admitting that he barely paid attention to the bad and he could have been wrong about how he was carrying it is in fact admitting his description is unreliable.

Why would this have to be explained?

it is in fact admitting his description is unreliable.

Only in your feeble mind, Brian.



Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 22, 2018, 04:09:02 PM
Huh?

Thanks for confirming that the WC had NO supporting evidence for their claim. I can do this too. I claim that LHO got into an automobile and was driven out of DP.

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Sure if;

Someone planted the Bus Transfer on Oswald

Or just said that it was on him. McWatters, the bus driver, said that he did NOT give it to LHO.

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Bledsoe the day after went to the Dallas Police with accurate info that I'm not sure was public.

First of all, you and the WC have not shown that Bledsoe knew LHO to recognize him. Secondly, you have no idea that what she said was accurate since the WC failed to support any of it.

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Whaley lied.

That's a given since he didn't record trips in 15 minute blocks as he claimed.

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Fritz lied about what Oswald said.

Agreed.

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Bookout lied about what Oswald said.

Agreed.

Quote
Btw if Oswald did indeed get into what must have to be a getaway car then I would think that is pretty incriminating, what do you say?

JohnM

Maybe, maybe not. Remember, I have never said that LHO was innocent as he may have been involved. What I have said, and shown in my series, was that he was not involved in the way that the WC claimed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 22, 2018, 04:42:37 PM
Sure. So why did none of the numerous people in DP see him walking the seven blocks? Can you answer that question?

I realize it is entirely futile to engage with you in a substantive discussion, but your question is one that reasonable people would already know the answer too.  Oswald was undoubtedly "seen" by some unknown number of people as he made his way to the bus.  None of these people, however, would have had any cause to notice or remember him.  He is just another pedestrian on the street of a major city.  And if they had, you would dismiss them as potentially part of the frame up (like anyone who places Oswald on the bus or in the cab).  A better question is why you think that your fantasy conspirators would go to the considerable time and risk of placing Oswald on a bus that takes him absolutely nowhere?  It does not seem to advance the conspiracy narrative one iota.  And the conspirators would somehow have to identify which bus would be in the area at that time, and then somehow convince all the occupants not to say otherwise or to even confirm that Oswald was on the bus, and then arrange to plant the transfer on him.  Why don't they just skip that risky and pointless task and go with the cab if the entire purpose of this charade is to cover up a getaway ride?  And why would any of your conspirators bother assisting in Oswald's escape from the TSBD with an escape car if the ultimate plan entailed his being caught or killed as part of a frame up for the assassination?  Here is where you ignore all these obvious pitfalls in your theory and thank me for providing "no evidence."  And your nutty kindred suggest it is a strawman argument that anyone here has implied a conspiracy.  Everyone is simply lying about the bus/cab ride for some unspecified reason and any evidence is planted etc.  There I've advanced the entire pointless discussion that would follow!   
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 22, 2018, 09:57:41 PM
A better question is why you think that your fantasy conspirators would go to the considerable time and risk of placing Oswald on a bus that takes him absolutely nowhere?  It does not seem to advance the conspiracy narrative one iota.

Placing Oswald on a bus doesn't advance the LN narrative one iota, yet it keeps showing up on these padded lists of so-called "evidence".
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 22, 2018, 11:39:09 PM
I realize it is entirely futile to engage with you in a substantive discussion, but your question is one that reasonable people would already know the answer too.  Oswald was undoubtedly "seen" by some unknown number of people as he made his way to the bus.  None of these people, however, would have had any cause to notice or remember him.  He is just another pedestrian on the street of a major city.  And if they had, you would dismiss them as potentially part of the frame up (like anyone who places Oswald on the bus or in the cab).  A better question is why you think that your fantasy conspirators would go to the considerable time and risk of placing Oswald on a bus that takes him absolutely nowhere?  It does not seem to advance the conspiracy narrative one iota.  And the conspirators would somehow have to identify which bus would be in the area at that time, and then somehow convince all the occupants not to say otherwise or to even confirm that Oswald was on the bus, and then arrange to plant the transfer on him.  Why don't they just skip that risky and pointless task and go with the cab if the entire purpose of this charade is to cover up a getaway ride?  And why would any of your conspirators bother assisting in Oswald's escape from the TSBD with an escape car if the ultimate plan entailed his being caught or killed as part of a frame up for the assassination?  Here is where you ignore all these obvious pitfalls in your theory and thank me for providing "no evidence."  And your nutty kindred suggest it is a strawman argument that anyone here has implied a conspiracy.  Everyone is simply lying about the bus/cab ride for some unspecified reason and any evidence is planted etc.  There I've advanced the entire pointless discussion that would follow!

So many words to say that you have NO supporting evidence for the WC's claim. Since you have none I posit a different claim  -- LHO received a ride out of DP.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 23, 2018, 01:37:19 AM
So many words to say that you have NO supporting evidence for the WC's claim. Since you have none I posit a different claim  -- LHO received a ride out of DP.

Who could have predicted this response?  Let's waste some more time going down the Caprio rabbit hole.  Put yourself in the place of your fantasy conspirators who need a plan to cover up that "LHO received a ride out of DP."  Would this plan entail both a bus ride that takes him nowhere and then a cab ride when the latter would suffice?  Why go to the risk of having to figure out what bus was in the vicinity at the time and then somehow convincing the passengers on a random bus not to undermine this fake scenario by saying no one got on when the bus takes Oswald nowhere?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned scenario because it serves no purpose and is incredibly risky when the cab ride does the trick.  I can't simplify it any further than that.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 01:57:08 AM
Who could have predicted this response?  Let's waste some more time going down the Caprio rabbit hole.  Put yourself in the place of your fantasy conspirators who need a plan to cover up that "LHO received a ride out of DP."  Would this plan entail both a bus ride that takes him nowhere and then a cab ride when the latter would suffice?  Why go to the risk of having to figure out what bus was in the vicinity at the time and then somehow convincing the passengers on a random bus not to undermine this fake scenario by saying no one got on when the bus takes Oswald nowhere?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned scenario because it serves no purpose and is incredibly risky when the cab ride does the trick.  I can't simplify it any further than that.

I present a claim that has supporting evidence (several witnesses saw LHO get into a car) and that is a "rabbit hole" to Smith, but the WC's claim with NO supporting evidence is the gospel according to him.

He has to be pulling our leg.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 23, 2018, 02:59:48 AM

Btw if Oswald did indeed get into what must have to be a getaway car then I would think that is pretty incriminating, what do you say?

Maybe, maybe not. Remember, I have never said that LHO was innocent as he may have been involved. What I have said, and shown in my series, was that he was not involved in the way that the WC claimed.

The "rambler incident" happened 10 minutes after the President was shot.

What's a plausible narrative?

How did Oswald get in contact with someone so quick so they could get through reported heavy traffic and be shrilly whistling to Oswald 10 minutes later?
Or was this Oswald's mate and they prearranged to go to lunch 5 minutes before Oswald had to get back to work?
Or was the Rambler driver a 1963 Uber type service who dropped Oswald off at the Rooming house?
Or was the Rambler driver part of the conspiracy but instead of killing Oswald or driving him very far away, decides to take Oswald to the Movies?
Or after the Rambler dropped off Oswald did it transform into a beep beeping Police car?
Or what else makes sense?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 23, 2018, 01:46:50 PM
I present a claim that has supporting evidence (several witnesses saw LHO get into a car) and that is a "rabbit hole" to Smith, but the WC's claim with NO supporting evidence is the gospel according to him.

He has to be pulling our leg.

How about addressing why your fantasy conspirators would put Oswald on a bus that takes him nowhere to cover up a ride he got from someone else?  Particularly when the cab ride alone would suffice for that purpose.  It makes absolutely no sense to fake a scenario to put Oswald on a bus that goes nowhere and risk someone on that bus undermining the story.
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 02:34:52 PM
The "rambler incident" happened 10 minutes after the President was shot.

What's a plausible narrative?

How did Oswald get in contact with someone so quick so they could get through reported heavy traffic and be shrilly whistling to Oswald 10 minutes later?
Or was this Oswald's mate and they prearranged to go to lunch 5 minutes before Oswald had to get back to work?
Or was the Rambler driver a 1963 Uber type service who dropped Oswald off at the Rooming house?
Or was the Rambler driver part of the conspiracy but instead of killing Oswald or driving him very far away, decides to take Oswald to the Movies?
Or after the Rambler dropped off Oswald did it transform into a beep beeping Police car?
Or what else makes sense?

JohnM

What is your point? The WC GUESSED that he left the TSBD at 12:33 as no one saw him doing so. They then GUESSED that he walked 7 blocks to catch a bus as no one saw this either.

Much credit to the "silly conspirators" that they can pass GUESSES off as facts and have some people believe them.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
How about addressing why your fantasy conspirators would put Oswald on a bus that takes him nowhere to cover up a ride he got from someone else?  Particularly when the cab ride alone would suffice for that purpose.  It makes absolutely no sense to fake a scenario to put Oswald on a bus that goes nowhere and risk someone on that bus undermining the story.

You clearly don't bother to read what I write. I said that LHO wasn't on McWatters' bus based on the evidence. Why do you believe UNSUPPORTED guesses?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 23, 2018, 02:57:52 PM
You clearly don't bother to read what I write. I said that LHO wasn't on McWatters' bus based on the evidence. Why do you believe UNSUPPORTED guesses?

I understand your claim.  You apparently don't comprehend my question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators FAKE a scenario that places Oswald on the bus to cover up his getting a ride from someone else when the bus takes him nowhere?  A FAKE cab ride in your fantasy would suffice to cover up Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  Why also fake a pointless bus trip that necessitates finding a bus at the right place and time and somehow ensuring a random group of bus passengers plays along with the fake story.  It's absurd.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 03:05:51 PM
I understand your claim.  You apparently don't comprehend my question.  Why would your fantasy conspirators FAKE a scenario that places Oswald on the bus to cover up his getting a ride from someone else when the bus takes him nowhere?  A FAKE cab ride in your fantasy would suffice to cover up Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  Why also fake a pointless bus trip that necessitates finding a bus at the right place and time and somehow ensuring a random group of bus passengers plays along with the fake story.  It's absurd.

First of all, they're not my fantasy conspirators as you falsely state. There were conspirators because there was a conspiracy based on the evidence.

To answer your very long question simply  -- that ridiculous scenario was better than admitting that LHO received a ride since that would show that he had people working with him.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 23, 2018, 03:28:18 PM
First of all, they're not my fantasy conspirators as you falsely state. There were conspirators because there was a conspiracy based on the evidence.

To answer your very long question simply  -- that ridiculous scenario was better than admitting that LHO received a ride since that would show that he had people working with him.

It's not a long question and you haven't answered it.   The cab ride would suffice to cover up any ride that Oswald received from someone else.  Why also fake a pointless bus ride with all the risk that entails (e.g. a random bus load of passengers that could confirm it never happened)?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 23, 2018, 07:13:59 PM
Who could have predicted this response?  Let's waste some more time going down the Caprio rabbit hole.  Put yourself in the place of your fantasy conspirators who need a plan to cover up that "LHO received a ride out of DP."  Would this plan entail both a bus ride that takes him nowhere and then a cab ride when the latter would suffice?  Why go to the risk of having to figure out what bus was in the vicinity at the time and then somehow convincing the passengers on a random bus not to undermine this fake scenario by saying no one got on when the bus takes Oswald nowhere?  It is ludicrous as part of a planned scenario because it serves no purpose and is incredibly risky when the cab ride does the trick.  I can't simplify it any further than that.

How in the world does this ridiculous "fantasy conspirators" strawman demonstrate that Oswald was actually on McWatters' bus?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 23, 2018, 07:27:06 PM
How in the world does this ridiculous "fantasy conspirators" strawman demonstrate that Oswald was actually on McWatters' bus?

Either Oswald got the Bus Transfer from McWatters or it happened another way.

(https://i.postimg.cc/02cSWTRh/front-and-back-bus-transfer.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 07:28:36 PM
It's not a long question and you haven't answered it.   The cab ride would suffice to cover up any ride that Oswald received from someone else.  Why also fake a pointless bus ride with all the risk that entails (e.g. a random bus load of passengers that could confirm it never happened)?

Go ask them since you seem to know them (I mean you are calling them silly). I prefer to deal with the evidence and that shows that LHO never boarded Mcwatters' bus.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 23, 2018, 07:39:38 PM
Either Oswald got the Bus Transfer from McWatters or it happened another way.

Well, that's a useful observation.  Also, Oswald either shot JFK or he did not.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 23, 2018, 07:46:22 PM
Well, that's a useful observation.  Also, Oswald either shot JFK or he did not.

Quote
Well, that's a useful observation.

Thanks.

Quote
Also, Oswald either shot JFK or he did not.

Exactly, now you're starting to get it, either Oswald shot Kennedy or your Fantasy Conspirators set him up.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 23, 2018, 07:53:19 PM
Go ask them since you seem to know them (I mean you are calling them silly). I prefer to deal with the evidence and that shows that LHO never boarded Mcwatters' bus.

Your fantasy theory is that Oswald was never on the bus.  And that the conspirators contrived the bus and cab ride to cover up for someone giving Oswald a ride.   Right?  I simply asked you why - in your opinion given that you are advocating this theory - the conspirators would contrive two fake scenarios when the cab ride alone would suffice for this purpose?  If you can't even come up with any explanation to fake a bus ride given that that cab ride is sufficient to provide a cover story, that should tell you something about whether this is an intentionally contrived event.   It's risky and completely unnecessary as part of any fake scenario.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 23, 2018, 08:01:28 PM
Your fantasy theory is that Oswald was never on the bus.  And that the conspirators contrived the bus and cab ride to cover up for someone giving Oswald a ride.   Right?  I simply asked you why - in your opinion given that you are advocating this theory - the conspirators would contrive two fake scenarios when the cab ride alone would suffice for this purpose?  If you can't even come up with any explanation to fake a bus ride given that that cab ride is sufficient to provide a cover story, that should tell you something about whether this is an intentionally contrived event.   It's risky and completely unnecessary as part of any fake scenario.

And the CT's still have yet to explain how Bledsoe became involved?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 23, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Exactly, now you're starting to get it, either Oswald shot Kennedy or your Fantasy Conspirators set him up.

LOL
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ross Lidell on October 23, 2018, 10:33:01 PM
On page 157 of the WC Report we see the following.

Quote on

The bus ride.?According to the reconstruction of time and events which the Commission found most credible, Lee Harvey Oswald left the building approximately three minutes after the assassination. He PROBABLY walked east on Elm Street for seven blocks to the corner of Elm and Murphy where he boarded a bus which was HEADING BACK IN THE DIRECTION OF THE DEPOSITORY BUILDING, on its way to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. (Emphasis mine)

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0091a.htm

J. E. Hoover?s report of whereabouts?known as Commission Exhibit (CE) 1119A.

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0058b.htm

Quote off

A couple of things jump out after reading this paragraph. Firstly, they said PROBABLY in terms of what he did as they could NOT show he did do this. Secondly, the bus he allegedly boarded (there is NO evidence showing he ever did board this bus) was HEADED BACK to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD), so why NOT just wait there and then board the bus when it came in front of the building? Who takes a bus heading back to the crime scene IF YOU ARE THE KILLER as claimed anyway? Can any WC defender answer this question for me?

As IF this was NOT bad enough it gets worse for the WC and its defenders. On page 154 of the SAME report it goes through a litany of people that would have seen LHO INSIDE THE BUILDING, but did NOT see him leave the building. Finally on page 156 it says this.


Quote on

Although Oswald PROBABLY left the building at 12:33 p.m., his absence was NOT noticed until at least one-half hour later. (Emphasis mine)

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0090b.htm

CE-1118?diagram of second floor of TSBD.

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0058a.htm

Quote off

We see that NO one saw him or noticed him walking off as the WC claimed he did for at least 30 minutes! How can that be? The front of the TSBD was loaded with people and yet NO one saw LHO walk out and leave. Why not?

Can any WC defender explain this for me?


Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?

The simple answer is: Because nobody saw him.

By that I mean: Nobody paid "particular" attention to a man walking on the street... as is common with a lack of attention by human beings.

The people on the street might not have heard that somebody shot at the President and were simply going about their business. Additionally, people don't possess "total recall". There is nothing in the "Assassin's Rule-book" that says he (or he) has to be seen by people away from the scene of the crime.

Incidentally, there is no "Assassin's Rule-book".

Finally: In this world... anything can happen.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 11:16:33 PM
Your fantasy theory is that Oswald was never on the bus.  And that the conspirators contrived the bus and cab ride to cover up for someone giving Oswald a ride.   Right?  I simply asked you why - in your opinion given that you are advocating this theory - the conspirators would contrive two fake scenarios when the cab ride alone would suffice for this purpose?  If you can't even come up with any explanation to fake a bus ride given that that cab ride is sufficient to provide a cover story, that should tell you something about whether this is an intentionally contrived event.   It's risky and completely unnecessary as part of any fake scenario.

Smith keeps claiming that I am putting forth a theory, "a fantasy theory" to boot, when I am actually pointing out what the  evidence actually shows. Why does he keep ignoring the actual evidence?

Why does he support theories with NO supporting evidence? You'll notice that he hasn't cited one piece of evidence in all his replies.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 11:18:03 PM
And the CT's still have yet to explain how Bledsoe became involved?

JohnM

And the LNers have yet to explain why Bledsoe is relevant.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 23, 2018, 11:25:55 PM
Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?

The simple answer is: Because nobody saw him.

By that I mean: Nobody paid "particular" attention to a man walking on the street... as is common with a lack of attention by human beings.

And yet, countless others came forward after his face was put in the newspaper and on t.v. Go figure. No witness could be found for those 7 blocks, but that is okay because even the WC didn't say he walked them for sure anyway.

Quote
The people on the street might not have heard that somebody shot at the President and were simply going about their business. Additionally, people don't possess "total recall". There is nothing in the "Assassin's Rule-book" that says he (or he) has to be seen by people away from the scene of the crime.

Incidentally, there is no "Assassin's Rule-book".

Finally: In this world... anything can happen.

So why did so many people come forward to say they recognized him in other circumstances? More importantly, why did witnesses notice him getting in a car?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ross Lidell on October 24, 2018, 12:21:08 AM
And yet, countless others came forward after his face was put in the newspaper and on t.v. Go figure. No witness could be found for those 7 blocks, but that is okay because even the WC didn't say he walked them for sure anyway.

So why did so many people come forward to say they recognized him in other circumstances? More importantly, why did witnesses notice him getting in a car?

Because (in this world)... anything is possible. I admit, I'm using poetic license.

Actually: Many things are "possible". Who can say what is "impossible"?

I'm sure you think you can, Rob. So I say (mischievously): Can you provide "supporting evidence" for your theory that LHO "must have been seen by a person in the seven blocks that he walked" ... from the TSBD after the assassination of JFK?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 12:42:36 AM
And the LNers have yet to explain why Bledsoe is relevant.

Bledsoe is relevant because she saw Oswald on McWatters bus. Duh!

Now answer the question, how did Bledsoe become involved and how did she know so many details that were in her day after affidavit?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 12:50:09 AM
And yet, countless others came forward after his face was put in the newspaper and on t.v. Go figure. No witness could be found for those 7 blocks, but that is okay because even the WC didn't say he walked them for sure anyway.

Oswald was definitely on Jefferson street and besides Brewer who saw Oswald avoiding Police cars and Postal who saw Oswald outside her theater, how many eyewitnesses saw Oswald on Jefferson street?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 24, 2018, 01:25:39 AM


 Now answer the question, how did Bledsoe become involved and how did she know so many details that were in her day after affidavit?

Not exactly crammed with details is it?

(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339150/m1/1/med_res/)
 
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 24, 2018, 01:51:34 AM
Mary Bledsoe...star witness----
Here is an affidavit put together a year later to be stuffed into the report.
Mrs Bledsoe reflected a third party statement made by her son to the police.
It seems they were really sure that Oswald was the assassin [apparently before he was ever arrested] because Bledsoe was certain that Oswald was 'unbalanced'. She also states that Oswald [when he boarded the bus] was 'nervous..excited..startled'. Whaley described his Oswald cab fare as rather mild and easy going.
Mary Bledsoe lived over by Lake Cliff and stated that she was already home when she heard the gunshots that killed Tippit! Over a mile away!! It just seems that after LHO was 'convicted' and killed, anybody could say anything that would further condemn him and it would be accepted.


(https://www.ripleys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Mary-Bledsoe-affidavit.jpg)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 02:00:43 AM
Because (in this world)... anything is possible. I admit, I'm using poetic license.

Actually: Many things are "possible". Who can say what is "impossible"?

I'm sure you think you can, Rob. So I say (mischievously): Can you provide "supporting evidence" for your theory that LHO "must have been seen by a person in the seven blocks that he walked" ... from the TSBD after the assassination of JFK?

Shifting the burden again. It is clear that the LNers cannot provide supporting evidence for the WC's claim. In all fairness they did only say "probably" anyway.

No, it is more likely that he got into a car. Ross, can you provide supporting evidence that LHO didn't get into a car and leave DP?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 02:04:38 AM
Bledsoe is relevant because she saw Oswald on McWatters bus. Duh!

Now answer the question, how did Bledsoe become involved and how did she know so many details that were in her day after affidavit?

JohnM

But, you have NOT shown that Bledsoe knew LHO to recognize him. First you have to show that Bledsoe is relevant as Mcwatters said that he wasn't on his bus. Are you saying that he lied?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 02:06:49 AM
Oswald was definitely on Jefferson street and besides Brewer who saw Oswald avoiding Police cars and Postal who saw Oswald outside her theater, how many eyewitnesses saw Oswald on Jefferson street?

JohnM

So you can't produce a witness, huh?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 02:26:31 AM
So you can't produce a witness, huh?

As soon as you can produce an eyewitness who I didn't mention above, who saw Oswald on Jefferson then we can move on.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 02:55:12 AM
First you have to show that Bledsoe is relevant as Mcwatters said that he wasn't on his bus. Are you saying that he lied?

Quote
First you have to show that Bledsoe is relevant

Bledsoe's day after affidavit contained a lot of specific details, was any of the following public knowledge?

Oswald got on the bus on Elm street as verified by McWatters, and Fritz and Bookout say by Oswald himself.
Oswald got off the bus a few blocks later as verified by McWatters, and Fritz and Bookout say by Oswald himself.
Someone yelled the President was shot while Oswald was on the bus as verified by McWatters.
And coincidentally Oswald just happened to have a bus transfer with McWatters moon shaped punch.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe1.htm

Quote
as Mcwatters said that he wasn't on his bus. Are you saying that he lied?

You wouldn't be telling more porkies would you, where does McWatters specifically say that Oswald was not on his bus?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 03:04:38 AM
Mary Bledsoe...star witness----
Here is an affidavit put together a year later to be stuffed into the report.
Mrs Bledsoe reflected a third party statement made by her son to the police.
It seems they were really sure that Oswald was the assassin [apparently before he was ever arrested] because Bledsoe was certain that Oswald was 'unbalanced'. She also states that Oswald [when he boarded the bus] was 'nervous..excited..startled'. Whaley described his Oswald cab fare as rather mild and easy going.
Mary Bledsoe lived over by Lake Cliff and stated that she was already home when she heard the gunshots that killed Tippit! Over a mile away!! It just seems that after LHO was 'convicted' and killed, anybody could say anything that would further condemn him and it would be accepted.



Sure sounds like Oswald, was looking for employment which we know he was, spoke in a foreign language on the phone like later at the rooming house, he would seclude himself in his room like much of the time later at the rooming house and rarely made conservation.

(https://www.ripleys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Mary-Bledsoe-affidavit.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 24, 2018, 03:34:19 AM
I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?

I'm assuming you're referring to the Frazier interview with Gary Mack.  If so, you can see Mack's surprise when Frazier made that claim.  Frazier had never said anything like that before.  I don't give Frazier's statement (that he saw Oswald leave the building) much value, since he apparently waited decades upon decades to make that claim.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 24, 2018, 03:39:18 AM
Me too, but Mr. Turner wants us to discuss something we have not seen I guess. Instead he insults me for asking.

If you haven't seen the video interview where Buell Frazier states that he saw Oswald leave the building, then perhaps it is you (instead of Nicholas Turner) who needs to do more research.  This stuff is old news.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 24, 2018, 03:42:15 AM
It is entirely possible that Mr. Frazier was incorrect with his estimation.

That's possible, but how about observation? Frazier said Oswald carried that package in his cupped hand and tucked under his shoulder. If the package was 3ft or more, how tall must Oswald have been?

Moot point.

Frazier has admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package that morning.  Frazier also admits (quite a few times) that he wasn't paying attention to Oswald as the two walked into work that morning.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 24, 2018, 03:47:05 AM
So how did LHO walk 7 blocks and not be seen?

How do you know he was not seen?

I was wondering the same thing, Brian.

There's a big difference between being unseen and being seen but not remembered.

Kooks like Caprio won't understand that, of course.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 24, 2018, 04:46:34 AM
I realize it is entirely futile to engage with you in a substantive discussion, but your question is one that reasonable people would already know the answer too.  Oswald was undoubtedly "seen" by some unknown number of people as he made his way to the bus.  None of these people, however, would have had any cause to notice or remember him.  He is just another pedestrian on the street of a major city.  And if they had, you would dismiss them as potentially part of the frame up (like anyone who places Oswald on the bus or in the cab).

Indeed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 24, 2018, 05:33:15 AM
Sure sounds like Oswald, was looking for employment which we know he was, spoke in a foreign language on the phone like later at the rooming house, he would seclude himself in his room like much of the time later at the rooming house and rarely made conservation.
So what? Are these the 'details' you referred to earlier? They were not made on the day after affidavit they were made nearly a year after.
55 years later and no one can still seem to put the icing on the cake. If a 60 something year old Mary Bledsoe could hear the Tippit gun shots where she lived [google map 621 N Marsalis] that would would mean that everyone must have heard the shots in a one mile radius and that just didn't happen. So can we say 'exaggerate'? Or just plain fibbing?
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 07:00:10 AM
So what? Are these the 'details' you referred to earlier? They were not made on the day after affidavit they were made nearly a year after.
55 years later and no one can still seem to put the icing on the cake. If a 60 something year old Mary Bledsoe could hear the Tippit gun shots where she lived [google map 621 N Marsalis] that would would mean that everyone must have heard the shots in a one mile radius and that just didn't happen. So can we say 'exaggerate'? Or just plain fibbing?
 

Quote
So what?

Bledsoe perfectly described Oswald's behaviour that was confirmed by others.

Quote
Are these the 'details' you referred to earlier?

No, the "details" were in her 23/11/63 affidavit which I referred to on numerous occasions as the "day after affidavit" and I even linked to it.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe1.htm

Quote
They were not made on the day after affidavit they were made nearly a year after.

Yes, as your text and the affidavit itself shows.

Quote
55 years later and no one can still seem to put the icing on the cake.

No, on the first day there was enough evidence to charge Oswald with murder and by the end of the weekend there was a Mountain of Evidence which to this day has stood the test of half a century of intense scrutiny and still you can't present a plausible conspiracy narrative, waiting......  Zzzzzz......

Quote
If a 60 something year old Mary Bledsoe could hear the Tippit gun shots where she lived [google map 621 N Marsalis] that would would mean that everyone must have heard the shots in a one mile radius and that just didn't happen.

I told you a million times to not exaggerate. According to google maps the distance as the crow flies from Bledsoe to Tippit was 0.59 miles and according to McWatters schedule and allowing for the congested but moving traffic on Elm, she could have made it in time to hear the shots. But also consider it was Texas and hearing gunshots, old time cars backfiring, industry or whatever is entirely possible and maybe in all the excitement there was 6 shots or only 5 and ask yourself do you feel lucky, well do ya Punk?

JohnM



Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 08:09:38 AM
What is your point? The WC GUESSED that he left the TSBD at 12:33 as no one saw him doing so. They then GUESSED that he walked 7 blocks to catch a bus as no one saw this either.

Much credit to the "silly conspirators" that they can pass GUESSES off as facts and have some people believe them.

Quote
What is your point?

The fact that Oswald got into a car 10 minutes after the assassination and 5 minutes before he had to go back to work can only mean that in your scenario the Rambler was a getaway car which in the end was no different to Oswald's getaway bus.

Quote
The WC GUESSED that he left the TSBD at 12:33 as no one saw him doing so.

And according to your timeline Oswald was waiting till 12:40 then sped off in a car, a classic flight from the crime scene.

Quote
They then GUESSED that he walked 7 blocks to catch a bus as no one saw this either.

Yawn, learn the evidence. Oswald had McWatters Bus Transfer.

Quote
Much credit to the "silly conspirators" that they can pass GUESSES off as facts and have some people believe them.

Exactly you just shat on your own argument, your "silly conspirators" could have had dozens of people who saw Oswald in the sniper's nest, saw Oswald leave the building, saw Oswald on the bus, saw Oswald get in and out of a taxi and so on but those "silly conspirators" just relied on stuff to happen. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 08:18:38 AM
I was wondering the same thing, Brian.

There's a big difference between being unseen and being seen but not remembered.

Kooks like Caprio won't understand that, of course.

Sure if you stop and interact with someone or they're acting suspicious or a drop dead beauty walks past then you might remember but otherwise we're all just another random unmemorable face in the crowd.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IndelibleUglyHorseshoebat-size_restricted.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 24, 2018, 11:56:10 AM
Frazier never admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package.

At the mock trial, Bugs asked him a hypothetical question. He wanted to know (and I am paraphrazing) whether Frazier, walking behind Oswald, would have been able to see the package if it had protruded out. Frazier answered honestly that he could not have seen that, which is a far cry from admitting that he could have been mistaken about the way Oswald carried the package!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on October 24, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Frazier never admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package.

At the mock trial, Bugs asked him a hypothetical question. He wanted to know (and I am paraphrazing) whether Frazier, walking behind Oswald, would have been able to see the package if it had protruded out. Frazier answered honestly that he could not have seen that, which is a far cry from admitting that he could have been mistaken about the way Oswald carried the package!

If the rifle had been "cupped" in Oswald's hand, it couldn't have been protruding. It would have fallen forward onto the ground.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 05:25:11 PM
As soon as you can produce an eyewitness who I didn't mention above, who saw Oswald on Jefferson then we can move on.

JohnM

Changing the subject won't work. I didn't mention Jefferson in the OP. You've got no witness or supporting evidence for the WC's claim. Got it.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Bledsoe's day after affidavit contained a lot of specific details, was any of the following public knowledge?

Oswald got on the bus on Elm street as verified by McWatters, and Fritz and Bookout say by Oswald himself.
Oswald got off the bus a few blocks later as verified by McWatters, and Fritz and Bookout say by Oswald himself.
Someone yelled the President was shot while Oswald was on the bus as verified by McWatters.
And coincidentally Oswald just happened to have a bus transfer with McWatters moon shaped punch.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe1.htm

You wouldn't be telling more porkies would you, where does McWatters specifically say that Oswald was not on his bus?

JohnM

She claimed that she knew LHO prior to 11/22/63, but that claim was never supported with evidence. She claimed that she saw LHO on the bus, but that claim was never supported with evidence.

When are you going to cite supporting evidence for these claims?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 05:30:50 PM
If you haven't seen the video interview where Buell Frazier states that he saw Oswald leave the building, then perhaps it is you (instead of Nicholas Turner) who needs to do more research.  This stuff is old news.

Sure, I should do more research to find something that you just said you place no value in. That makes no sense.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 05:33:43 PM
I was wondering the same thing, Brian.

There's a big difference between being unseen and being seen but not remembered.

Kooks like Caprio won't understand that, of course.

You have NO evidence either way. Only kooks make a big deal out of nothing.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 24, 2018, 05:38:07 PM
The fact that Oswald got into a car 10 minutes after the assassination and 5 minutes before he had to go back to work can only mean that in your scenario the Rambler was a getaway car which in the end was no different to Oswald's getaway bus.

And according to your timeline Oswald was waiting till 12:40 then sped off in a car, a classic flight from the crime scene.

Yawn, learn the evidence. Oswald had McWatters Bus Transfer.

Exactly you just shat on your own argument, your "silly conspirators" could have had dozens of people who saw Oswald in the sniper's nest, saw Oswald leave the building, saw Oswald on the bus, saw Oswald get in and out of a taxi and so on but those "silly conspirators" just relied on stuff to happen. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

JohnM

I didn't give a timeline. Slick move on your part. The point is there are witnesses for the car ride, but no witness for him doing what the WC claimed. 🚾
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 24, 2018, 06:56:09 PM

... on the first day there was enough evidence to charge Oswald with murder and by the end of the weekend there was a Mountain of Evidence which to this day has stood the test of half a century of intense scrutiny.... 
A mountain alright...of intensely circumstantial crap. Almost like it was planned that way. "Intense scrutiny"? Ha! Covered up with a wet paper bag...you'll see someday.
 
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 24, 2018, 08:07:19 PM
If the rifle had been "cupped" in Oswald's hand, it couldn't have been protruding. It would have fallen forward onto the ground.

Bugs could just as easily have asked Frazier if he could have seen the package if there had been a tree in his line of sight. The answer would have been the same.... but, of course, there was no tree.

Just like there is no evidence whatsoever of a protruding package. There is however testimony from Frazier which says he saw Oswald carry the paper bag cupped in his hand and under his armpit, which btw also would make the package not visible for anybody behind Oswald.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ross Lidell on October 24, 2018, 09:06:15 PM
Shifting the burden again. It is clear that the LNers cannot provide supporting evidence for the WC's claim. In all fairness they did only say "probably" anyway.

No, it is more likely that he got into a car. Ross, can you provide supporting evidence that LHO didn't get into a car and leave DP?

Ross, can you provide supporting evidence that LHO didn't get into a car and leave DP?

Rob, Rob, Rob....

I never claimed Oswald didn't get into a car and leave Dealey Plaza. Even if I did: You should know that it's impossible to prove a negative to 100% certainty.

However, for you (and others) who declare that it was impossible for Lee Harvey Oswald to get from the boardinghouse on North Beckley to Tenth and Patton in time to shoot Officer JD Tippit: LHO could have been given a ride by a motorist. The motorist might not have been a conspirator.

Accordingly: Rob, can you provide "supporting evidence" that LHO didn't get a ride in a car from near the boardinghouse on North Beckley to near Tenth and Patton?

Incidentally: Why is it more likely that he (LHO) got into a car (at Dealey Plaza) rather than walked up Elm Street?

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:06:01 PM
I'm assuming you're referring to the Frazier interview with Gary Mack.  If so, you can see Mack's surprise when Frazier made that claim.  Frazier had never said anything like that before.  I don't give Frazier's statement (that he saw Oswald leave the building) much value, since he apparently waited decades upon decades to make that claim.

When did Leavelle make the claim about what Scoggins supposedly said at the lineup?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:09:30 PM
Moot point.

Frazier has admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package that morning.  Frazier also admits (quite a few times) that he wasn't paying attention to Oswald as the two walked into work that morning.

So basically the only "evidence" that Oswald carried a rifle into the TSBD is that Frazier could have been mistaken about how a bag was carried?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:12:30 PM
No, on the first day there was enough evidence to charge Oswald with murder and by the end of the weekend there was a Mountain of Evidence which to this day has stood the test of half a century of intense scrutiny

"Proof" by repeated assertion of a unsubstantiated claim.

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/roflmao.gif)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 11:31:32 PM
So basically the only "evidence" that Oswald carried a rifle into the TSBD is that Frazier could have been mistaken about how a bag was carried?

Frazier repeatedly says he payed no attention to Oswald's bag, that the fact Jack, live with it!

Mr. BALL - All right.
When you got in the car did you say anything to him or did he say anything to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

Mr. BALL - Did it look to you as if there was something heavy in the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much attention to the package because like I say before and after he told me that it was curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention to it, and he never had lied to me before so I never did have any reason to doubt his word.

Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Mr. BALL - You will notice that this bag which is the colored bag, FBI Exhibit No. 10, is folded over. Was it folded over when you saw it the first time, folded over to the end?
Mr. FRAZIER - I will say I am not sure about that, whether it was folded over or not, because, like I say, I didn't pay that much attention to it.

Mr. BALL - But are you sure that his hand was at the end of the package or at the side of the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Like I said, I remember I didn't look at the package very much, paying much attention, but when I did look at it he did have his hands on the package like that.

Mr. BALL - Mr. Frazier, we have here this Exhibit No. 364 which is a sack and in that we have put a dismantled gun. Don't pay any attention to that. Will you stand up here and put this under your arm and then take a hold of it at the side?
Now, is that anywhere near similar to the way that Oswald carried the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know, like I said now, I said I didn't pay much attention--



JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 11:41:53 PM
"Proof" by repeated assertion of a unsubstantiated claim.

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/roflmao.gif)

As I said the evidence has withstood the test of time and if any of you Kooks had even one speck of evidence that proves a conspiracy then we wouldn't be here, simple as that.

But year after year all the same regurgitated misrepresentations, misinterpretations and cherry picking which the test of time has stated proves nothing and goes nowhere, but at least all this unwarranted speculation allows the CT and LNer books to keep on selling.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:42:16 PM
Frazier repeatedly says he payed no attention to Oswald's bag, that the fact Jack, live with it!

No, he didn't say he paid no attention, Lyin' "Mytton".

But is this supposed to somehow prove there was a rifle in the bag?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:45:25 PM
As I said the evidence has withstood the test of time

What does that even mean?

Your so-called "evidence" doesn't prove that Oswald killed JFK and it never has.  Which is why your only argument is to regurgitate unsubstantiated and speculative conclusions over and over again.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 24, 2018, 11:55:03 PM
No, he didn't say he paid no attention, Lyin' "Mytton".

But is this supposed to somehow prove there was a rifle in the bag?

Quote
No, he didn't say he paid no attention, Lyin' "Mytton".

Geez, you got me what can I say. Even though I supplied the actual Frazier testimony which is odd if I was trying to deceive but anyway, Frazier said he "didn't pay any attention" to the bag which somehow has a totally different meaning to "Frazier payed no attention to the bag"

Quote
But is this supposed to somehow prove there was a rifle in the bag?

Why did Oswald allegedly say he kept the package on his lap when it was really sprawled out on the back seat?
Why did Oswald allegedly tell Frazier that the package contained curtain rods and allegedly tell the interrogators that he kept his lunch on his lap?

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 12:00:08 AM
What does that even mean?

Your so-called "evidence" doesn't prove that Oswald killed JFK and it never has.  Which is why your only argument is to regurgitate unsubstantiated and speculative conclusions over and over again.

Quote
What does that even mean?

Every investigation since the WC has proved that Oswald did it, therefore the evidence has withstood the test of time. Live with it or don't see if I care.

Quote
Your so-called "evidence" doesn't prove that Oswald killed JFK and it never has.

You sound like one of those brainwashed lunatics who belongs to one of those crazy cults, it's ok John but please don't drink the Kook-aid.

Quote
Which is why your only argument is to regurgitate unsubstantiated and speculative conclusions over and over again.

Says you.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2018, 12:04:14 AM
Geez, you got me what can I say. Even though I supplied the actual Frazier testimony which is odd if I was trying to deceive but anyway, Frazier said he "didn't pay any attention" to the bag which somehow has a totally different meaning to "Frazier payed no attention to the bag"

He said he didn't pay much attention.  5 times in your excerpt.  You even underlined them.  Not surprising that you twisted that the way you twist everything.

Quote
Why did Oswald allegedly say he kept the package on his lap when it was really sprawled out on the back seat?

Why did Oswald allegedly tell Frazier that the package contained curtain rods and allegedly tell the interrogators that he kept his lunch on his lap?

Allegedly is right.  I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag.  Just a bunch of unanswerable questions.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2018, 12:04:48 AM
Every investigation since the WC has proved that Oswald did it,

LOL
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 25, 2018, 12:09:36 AM
Ross, can you provide supporting evidence that LHO didn't get into a car and leave DP?

Rob, Rob, Rob....

I never claimed Oswald didn't get into a car and leave Dealey Plaza. Even if I did: You should know that it's impossible to prove a negative to 100% certainty.

However, for you (and others) who declare that it was impossible for Lee Harvey Oswald to get from the boardinghouse on North Beckley to Tenth and Patton in time to shoot Officer JD Tippit: LHO could have been given a ride by a motorist. The motorist might not have been a conspirator.

Accordingly: Rob, can you provide "supporting evidence" that LHO didn't get a ride in a car from near the boardinghouse on North Beckley to near Tenth and Patton?

Incidentally: Why is it more likely that he (LHO) got into a car (at Dealey Plaza) rather than walk up Elm Street?

I didn't claim that he walked 7 blocks up Elm and got on a bus, but you insist that I produce evidence he didn't when the WC never supported their claim. How does it feel?

I haven't claimed any such thing in this thread. I simply have asked the LNers to support the WC's guess, but it seems that none of you can. Try as you might I will not go off topic.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 25, 2018, 12:14:33 AM
When did Frazier say that he saw Oswald head up Elm?

June 2002
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 12:26:43 AM

Allegedly is right.  I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag.  Just a bunch of unanswerable questions.

Quote
Allegedly is right.

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.

Quote
I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag

So?

Quote
Just a bunch of unanswerable questions.

The interrogation testimony evidence and it is evidence, was corroborated by a number of interrogators, so sure you can say they all got together and lied or whatever but you won't because that would class you as certifiable.
So we're left with Frazier and his sister who both testified that the package was on the back seat and we have several eyewitnesses who say that Oswald told a completely different story, so Hmmm this has gotta go somewhere and I'm guessing a Jury would go with Frazier and his sister being truthful and Oswald lied because his rifle was found on the 6th floor with his palm print and fibers that matched his shirt fibers.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 25, 2018, 12:39:22 AM
He said he didn't pay much attention.  5 times in your excerpt.  You even underlined them.  Not surprising that you twisted that the way you twist everything.

Allegedly is right.  I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag.  Just a bunch of unanswerable questions.

'I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag'
>>> Seems ProbablyOswald meant for no one to think there might be a rifle in that bag. Before and after.

Sounds like a plan.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 12:42:40 AM
LOL

I love these intellectual debates, keep it up.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 12:50:59 AM
'I'm still not seeing any evidence of a rifle in a bag'
>>> Seems ProbablyOswald meant for no one to think there might be a rifle in that bag. Before and after.

Sounds like a plan.

The bag contained Oswald's prints and a fiber that matched Oswald's blanket, the same blanket that was empty on the floor of the Paine garage.

(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/bag3.jpg)

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 01:01:16 AM
I didn't give a timeline. Slick move on your part. The point is there are witnesses for the car ride, but no witness for him doing what the WC claimed. 🚾

Quote
I didn't give a timeline. Slick move on your part.

The time according to Craig when Oswald jumped in the car was 12:40 which was 10 minutes after the President was killed and 5 minutes before he had to go back to work, which has to mean that this car was a getaway car.

Quote
The point is there are witnesses for the car ride, but no witness for him doing what the WC claimed. 🚾

The car stopping suddenly out the front of the Depository 10 minutes after the assassination is terrific evidence for Oswald escaping the crime scene, why would they cover this up? 

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 25, 2018, 04:16:25 AM
The time according to Craig when Oswald jumped in the car was 12:40 which was 10 minutes after the President was killed and 5 minutes before he had to go back to work, which has to mean that this car was a getaway car.

The car stopping suddenly out the front of the Depository 10 minutes after the assassination is terrific evidence for Oswald escaping the crime scene, why would they cover this up? 

JohnM

Because a getaway car signified an accomplice and they were set on the lone nut angle.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 25, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
Somebody is not keeping track of things very well...Quote from: John Iacoletti on October 24, 2018, 11:18:32 PM
    When did Frazier say that he saw Oswald head up Elm?
   Iocolleti Reply #20...Comment about seeing Oswald come out the back dock area and cross Houston street is at about 13:00.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
  Frazier stated in that video that he saw Oswald cross over Houston St.. and then he lost him in the crowd. He said nothing about Elm.
OK Chapman ...2002? Prove it.
 

He said nothing about Elm
>>> That was around 13:22

At 14:12 Buell mentions Oswald as 'starting to cross Elm'...

Iocolleti Reply #20...Comment about seeing Oswald come out the back dock area and cross Houston street is at about 13:00.

Buell said Oswald came out about 5-10 minutes after the shooting
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on October 25, 2018, 06:05:41 AM
He said nothing about Elm
>>> That was around 13:22

At 14:12 Buell mentions Oswald as 'starting to cross Elm'...

Iocolleti Reply #20...Comment about seeing Oswald come out the back dock area and cross Houston street is at about 13:00.

Buell said Oswald came out about 5-10 minutes after the shooting

Think the 13.00 is a reference to the point in the interview where that is said rather than the time on 23rd when it was said to have occurred.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 25, 2018, 06:08:42 AM
I watched an interview with Buell Frazier recently where he said he saw LHO walk from the TSBD after the shooting and walk away along Elm. I hadn't heard this before, and he didn't say it in other interviews I've watched, so is this accepted or known?

Buell did say Oswald was starting to cross Elm, but these characters need proof that he actually walked along Elm. Maybe they beamed him up. Any excuse goes to keep CT mancrush Oswald off Elm haha

https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

Here's part one of the same interview. It's interesting as well.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-1/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-1
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 25, 2018, 01:03:02 PM
Additionally ....Frazier [in his interviews] states that Oswald was calm and appeared not to be nervous when he saw him after the shooting.
This agrees with the cab driver in his statement concerning his passenger [be it Oswald or not]
In their zeal to hang it on Lee, the cops found a willing Bledsoe who expressed an apparent distaste for him. A calm Oswald was not suspicious enough. So what then if he did hop a bus?...it doesn't prove that Oswald shot JFK.
Buell said Oswald came out about 5-10 minutes after the shooting
Yeah out the back door. The Report said 3 minutes out the front door. Every minute counted in order to get Oswald over in time to shoot that cop.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 25, 2018, 04:04:30 PM
The bag contained Oswald's prints and a fiber that matched Oswald's blanket, the same blanket that was empty on the floor of the Paine garage.

(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/bag3.jpg)

JohnM

a fiber that matched Oswald's blanket


You keep claiming this, but show us where an expert actually used the word "matched"?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 25, 2018, 04:31:53 PM
Smith keeps claiming that I am putting forth a theory, "a fantasy theory" to boot, when I am actually pointing out what the  evidence actually shows. Why does he keep ignoring the actual evidence?

Why does he support theories with NO supporting evidence? You'll notice that he hasn't cited one piece of evidence in all his replies.

Translation:  although Rob has repeatedly claimed that Oswald was not on the bus and any evidence of such is the product of fakery or lies, he cannot come up with any explanation whatsoever for why his conspirators would fake Oswald's appearance on a bus that takes him nowhere.  If the purpose of Oswald's "fake" bus ride was to cover up for getting a ride from someone else, it does not do that because the bus takes him nowhere and the cab ride would suffice for that purpose.  There is no rational explanation in a conspiracy scenario for placing Oswald both on this bus and a cab, necessitating that a random group of bus passengers be convinced not to say otherwise, when the cab ride alone would have served that purpose.  Thus, the bus ride makes no sense as part of any fabricated event. 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 25, 2018, 09:20:01 PM
a fiber that matched Oswald's blanket


You keep claiming this, but show us where an expert actually used the word "matched"?

Stombaugh

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/stombaugh.htm
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 25, 2018, 10:25:20 PM
Stombaugh

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/stombaugh.htm

You mean this?

Mr. EISENBERG. Now you also said there were several fibers, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I did. There was a single brown delustered viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did this single brown viscose fiber match the fibers from the blanket, Exhibit 140?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; it did.
Mr. EISENBERG. In what characteristics were they matched?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The fibers in the blanket had a large number of brown viscose fibers, delustered and one fiber I found in the bag was also a viscose fiber of the same type and color as seen under a low-powered microscope. The delustering spots seen on the fiber were the same size, and both fibers were approximately the same diameter.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is viscose, Mr. Stombaugh, as a fiber?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Viscose is fairly common. It is used in many types of garments; it depends on the quality of the garment.
Mr. EISENBERG. And this was delustered viscose, did you say?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is delustered viscose?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. It is most common, I would say. It is more common than lustrous.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 25, 2018, 10:29:06 PM
  Chapman and Mytton must be joined at the hip. They seem to spontaneously respond to each others questions :D
 I reviewed that testimony also. Stombough mentions the word 'match' some 67 times relating to Oswald's body hairs found on the blanket [like it was never cleaned?]
  There you have it...absolute proof! Of what really? Ehhh not so sure there.
 
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 25, 2018, 10:34:30 PM
Translation:  although Rob has repeatedly claimed that Oswald was not on the bus and any evidence of such is the product of fakery or lies, he cannot come up with any explanation whatsoever for why his conspirators would fake Oswald's appearance on a bus that takes him nowhere.  If the purpose of Oswald's "fake" bus ride was to cover up for getting a ride from someone else, it does not do that because the bus takes him nowhere and the cab ride would suffice for that purpose.  There is no rational explanation in a conspiracy scenario for placing Oswald both on this bus and a cab, necessitating that a random group of bus passengers be convinced not to say otherwise, when the cab ride alone would have served that purpose.  Thus, the bus ride makes no sense as part of any fabricated event.

Translation: Richard still can't support the WC's claim so he tries to shift the burden onto me. Typical. Why does he support a theory that seems to be indefensible?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 25, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
  Chapman and Mytton must be joined at the hip. They seem to spontaneously respond to each others questions :D
 I reviewed that testimony also. Stombough mentions the word 'match' some 67 times relating to Oswald's body hairs found on the blanket [like it was never cleaned?]
  There you have it...absolute proof! Of what really? Ehhh not so sure there.
 
 

I found the use of the word "matched" without a proper explanation somewhat controversial.

Stombaugh's testimony clearly shows that with the word "matched" he merely means (and I paraphrase) "common fibers that are similar to those used in the blanket" and not a match to the exclusion of all other possible sources. Set in that context I have no problem with the word "matched" although I am sure in my mind that Mytton and Chapman did not want to convey that message by using the word.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2018, 11:50:14 PM
June 2002

No Bill, he doesn't say he saw Oswald "head up Elm".  Not in 2002 and not in 2013.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2018, 11:52:51 PM
Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.

So?

The interrogation testimony evidence and it is evidence, was corroborated by a number of interrogators, so sure you can say they all got together and lied or whatever but you won't because that would class you as certifiable.
So we're left with Frazier and his sister who both testified that the package was on the back seat and we have several eyewitnesses who say that Oswald told a completely different story, so Hmmm this has gotta go somewhere and I'm guessing a Jury would go with Frazier and his sister being truthful and Oswald lied because his rifle was found on the 6th floor with his palm print and fibers that matched his shirt fibers.

Have you lost what little remains of your faculties?  How do you get from "package on the back seat" (which Linnie Mae allegedly saw through a carport wall) to "rifle inside bag"?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 25, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
I love these intellectual debates, keep it up.

I love the way you seriously think that you have proven something merely by claiming that it has been proven.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 25, 2018, 11:59:07 PM
I found the use of the word "matched" without a proper explanation somewhat controversial.

Stombaugh's testimony clearly shows that with the word "matched" he merely means (and I paraphrase) "common fibers that are similar to those used in the blanket" and not a match to the exclusion of all other possible sources. Set in that context I have no problem with the word "matched" although I am sure in my mind that Mytton and Chapman did not want to convey that message by using the word.

Quote
although I am sure in my mind...

 ;D

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 26, 2018, 12:24:07 AM
Have you lost what little remains of your faculties?  How do you get from "package on the back seat" (which Linnie Mae allegedly saw through a carport wall) to "rifle inside bag"?

Quote
Have you lost what little remains of your faculties?

No.

Quote
How do you get from "package on the back seat" (which Linnie Mae allegedly saw through a carport wall) to "rifle inside bag"?

Seriously, this is typical Kook logic where you set some unattainable unknown standard and whenever this perceived level of proof isn't delivered then you seem to claim some sort of hollow victory. Very strange.

1. Nobody had X-Ray vision and could see through the bag.
2. Linnie describes the bag and contents as appearing heavy and bulky towards one end.
3. The bag was crumpled and while a hard unknown object perhaps a rifle caused scratches the origin couldn't be determined.
4. Either Oswald or Frazier and his sister lied about where Oswald put the package.
5. Either Oswald or Frazier lied about the contents of the package.
6. Either Frazier or Oswald lied about where Oswald was getting his lunch.
7. Oswald's prints were on the bag.
8. The bag was found in the same window that multiple eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle, Brennan testified that the man was Oswald.

Btw Frazier had no reason to lie.

JohnM



Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 12:37:24 AM

Have you lost what little remains of your faculties? 



No.


So, you agree only a little remains of your faculties and you just disagree you've lost those?


Seriously, this is typical Kook logic where you set some unattainable unknown standard and whenever this perceived level of proof isn't delivered then you seem to claim some sort of hollow victory. Very strange.

1. Nobody had X-Ray vision and could see through the bag.
2. Linnie describes the bag and contents as appearing heavy and bulky towards one end.
3. The bag was crumpled and while a hard unknown object perhaps a rifle caused scratches the origin couldn't be determined.
4. Either Oswald or Frazier and his sister lied about where Oswald put the package.
5. Either Oswald or Frazier lied about the contents of the package.
6. Either Frazier or Oswald lied about where Oswald was getting his lunch.
7. Oswald's prints were on the bag.
8. The bag was found in the same window that multiple eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle, Brennan testified that the man was Oswald.

Btw Frazier had no reason to lie.

JohnM


1. Nobody had X-Ray vision and could see through the bag.

True, so why are you claiming the bag contained a rifle?

2. Linnie describes the bag and contents as appearing heavy and bulky towards one end.

So what?

3. The bag was crumpled and while a hard unknown object perhaps a rifle caused scratches the origin couldn't be determined.


Is this you trying in vain to explain away why no scratchmarks caused by metal objects were not found in the bag?

4. Either Oswald or Frazier and his sister lied about where Oswald put the package.

Really, so there is no way they could have simply misrembered or be confused?

5. Either Oswald or Frazier lied about the contents of the package.

Frazier did not know what was in the package, so he could not have lied about that. All he knew is what (he said) Oswald told him.

6. Either Frazier or Oswald lied about where Oswald was getting his lunch.

Or somebody just made a wrong assumption.

7. Oswald's prints were on the bag.

Other prints, that could not be identified, were also on the bag. They could have belonged to other persons than Oswald which means it can't be ruled out other people also touched the bag.

8. The bag was found in the same window that multiple eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle,

Too bad there is just no conclusive evidence to support that claim

Brennan testified that the man was Oswald.

After failing completely to identify him at a line up
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 12:40:55 AM
I realized that mistake when I revisited the interview. I hadn't seen the interview in some time.

However, although Buell's 'starting to cross Elm' statement doesn't prove to a certainty that Oswald actually walked along that particular street at that particular time, it also does not rule out the possibility.


I realized that mistake when I revisited the interview

You seem to be so involved in the LN narrative that you make a lot of those mistakes lately!

However, although Buell's 'starting to cross Elm' statement doesn't prove to a certainty that Oswald actually walked along that particular street at that particular time, it also does not rule out the possibility.

Neither does it compute with the official narrative of Oswald leaving the building through the front door and within 3 minutes of the shooting to get on a bus.....


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 26, 2018, 12:42:38 AM
So, you agree only a little remains of your faculties and you just disagree you've lost those?


1. Nobody had X-Ray vision and could see through the bag.

True, so why are you claiming the bag contained a rifle?

2. Linnie describes the bag and contents as appearing heavy and bulky towards one end.

So what?

3. The bag was crumpled and while a hard unknown object perhaps a rifle caused scratches the origin couldn't be determined.


Is this you trying in vain to explain away why no scratchmarks caused by metal objects were not found in the bag?

4. Either Oswald or Frazier and his sister lied about where Oswald put the package.

Really, so there is no way they could have simply misrembered or be confused?

5. Either Oswald or Frazier lied about the contents of the package.

Frazier did not know what was in the package, so he could not have lied about that. All he knew is what (he said) Oswald told him.

6. Either Frazier or Oswald lied about where Oswald was getting his lunch.

Or somebody just made a wrong assumption.

7. Oswald's prints were on the bag.

Other prints, that could not be identified, were also on the bag. They could have belonged to other persons than Oswald which means it can't be ruled out other people also touched the bag.

8. The bag was found in the same window that multiple eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle,

Too bad there is just no conclusive evidence to support that claim

Brennan testified that the man was Oswald.

After failing completely to identify him at a line up

Yawn, your entire case seems to rely on mistaken eyewitnesses, forged evidence, planted evidence, crooked cops, crooked officials and the list goes on, but still not one shred of proof to support any of your self serving allegations. Go figure.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 01:00:16 AM
Yawn, your entire case seems to rely on mistaken eyewitnesses, forged evidence, planted evidence, crooked cops, crooked officials and the list goes on, but still not one shred of proof to support any of your self serving allegations. Go figure.

JohnM

Stop being such a drama queen!

I'm not making any allegations. I'm just showing your claims for what they really are; assumptions!

Btw, talk about "mistaken witnesses"... who is the one who claims Frazier and Randle were mistaken/wrong about the bag?

Who is the one who can not show where the paper bag was allegedly found, because there is no in situ photo?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 01:54:39 AM
Frazier never admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package.

At the mock trial, Bugs asked him a hypothetical question. He wanted to know (and I am paraphrazing) whether Frazier, walking behind Oswald, would have been able to see the package if it had protruded out. Frazier answered honestly that he could not have seen that, which is a far cry from admitting that he could have been mistaken about the way Oswald carried the package!

Vince Bugliosi:  So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body and you wouldn't have been able to see it.  Is that correct?

Buell Frazier:  That is true.


Do we really need to play the word games?  Frazier admitted that the bag could have been carried by Oswald in a manner different than he (Frazier) previously described.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 01:56:23 AM
Sure, I should do more research

Indeed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 02:01:06 AM
Frazier never admitted that he could have been mistaken about the manner in which Oswald carried the package.

At the mock trial, Bugs asked him a hypothetical question. He wanted to know (and I am paraphrazing) whether Frazier, walking behind Oswald, would have been able to see the package if it had protruded out. Frazier answered honestly that he could not have seen that, which is a far cry from admitting that he could have been mistaken about the way Oswald carried the package!

Bugs could just as easily have asked Frazier if he could have seen the package if there had been a tree in his line of sight. The answer would have been the same.... but, of course, there was no tree.

Just like there is no evidence whatsoever of a protruding package. There is however testimony from Frazier which says he saw Oswald carry the paper bag cupped in his hand and under his armpit, which btw also would make the package not visible for anybody behind Oswald.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 02:01:52 AM
When did Leavelle make the claim about what Scoggins supposedly said at the lineup?

Can you prove that Leavelle, in the weeks and months after the assassination, didn't tell family, friends and coworkers about what Scoggins said at the lineup?

You can see Mack's surprise when Frazier made that claim.  Frazier had never said anything like that before.  I don't give Frazier's statement (that he saw Oswald leave the building) much value, since he apparently waited decades upon decades to make that claim.

Can you quote Frazier ever saying anything like that before?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 26, 2018, 02:07:10 AM
Stop being such a drama queen!

I'm not making any allegations. I'm just showing your claims for what they really are; assumptions!

Btw, talk about "mistaken witnesses"... who is the one who claims Frazier and Randle were mistaken/wrong about the bag?

Who is the one who can not show where the paper bag was allegedly found, because there is no in situ photo?

Quote
Stop being such a drama queen!

Of course you can't find fault with my post because I reckon all your arguments continually revolve around "mistaken eyewitnesses, forged evidence, planted evidence, crooked cops, crooked officials and as I said the list goes on.

Quote
I'm just showing your claims for what they really are; assumptions!

I just make reasonable inferences based on the evidence whereas in return you make observations which are unreasonable.

Quote
Btw, talk about "mistaken witnesses"... who is the one who claims Frazier and Randle were mistaken/wrong about the bag?

They weren't entirely mistaken, their stories of where Oswald put the bag is corroborated, they both said that Oswald had a brown paper bag, they both said it was a long bag. The fact that they were slightly out with their overall guesstimation of an object that Frazier said he didn't pay much attention to and Linnie only saw briefly isn't really important.

JohnM


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 26, 2018, 03:32:30 AM
  Do we really need to play the word games?  Frazier admitted that the bag could have been carried by Oswald in a manner different than he (Frazier) previously described.
Quote
So, the bag could have been shoved down his pants for all I know... 
That's how I would have answered.
Brown..have you ever carried a rifle? Military..hunting? Anywhere? Be honest now :-\
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 03:32:54 AM
You mean this?

Mr. EISENBERG. Now you also said there were several fibers, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I did. There was a single brown delustered viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did this single brown viscose fiber match the fibers from the blanket, Exhibit 140?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; it did.
Mr. EISENBERG. In what characteristics were they matched?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The fibers in the blanket had a large number of brown viscose fibers, delustered and one fiber I found in the bag was also a viscose fiber of the same type and color as seen under a low-powered microscope. The delustering spots seen on the fiber were the same size, and both fibers were approximately the same diameter.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is viscose, Mr. Stombaugh, as a fiber?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Viscose is fairly common. It is used in many types of garments; it depends on the quality of the garment.
Mr. EISENBERG. And this was delustered viscose, did you say?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is delustered viscose?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. It is most common, I would say. It is more common than lustrous.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now you also said there were several fibers, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I did. There was a single brown delustered viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did this single brown viscose fiber match the fibers from the blanket, Exhibit 140?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; it did.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 03:36:35 AM


Vince Bugliosi:  So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body and you wouldn't have been able to see it.  Is that correct?

Buell Frazier:  That is true.


Frazier admitted that the bag could have been carried by Oswald in a manner different than he (Frazier) previously described.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 26, 2018, 03:46:13 AM
ignoring the fact Tippit was at the GLOCO station waiting for the bus.

What proof do you have that Tippit was "waiting for the bus"?
Tippit was waiting for something. Fifteen minutes after the assassination [12:45] he was ordered from his South Oak Cliff area to patrol Central Oak Cliff. Fifteen minutes after that, [1:00] he was seen at the GLOCO station..not Oak Cliff at all but across the Trinity River from there at the edge of downtown Dallas. Ten or so minutes after that, [1:10+-] he was seen at a record store on Jefferson in Oak Cliff making a phone call. Some minutes after that, he was dead. What was up with Tippit?
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on October 26, 2018, 03:50:41 AM
Mr. EISENBERG. Now you also said there were several fibers, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I did. There was a single brown delustered viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did this single brown viscose fiber match the fibers from the blanket, Exhibit 140?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; it did.
Now who is 'playing word games'? And you are terrible at it :D
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 03:58:03 AM
Indeed.

Parsing someone's reply and presenting it out of context shows your lack of integrity.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 06:19:01 AM
Parsing someone's reply and presenting it out of context shows your lack of integrity.

Being unaware of a 2002 interview between Gary Mack and Buell Frazier shows your lack of knowledge of the case.

This lack of knowledge would be acceptable if you hadn't just told another forum member to go back and research some more.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 26, 2018, 08:10:41 AM
You mean this?

Mr. EISENBERG. Now you also said there were several fibers, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I did. There was a single brown delustered viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did this single brown viscose fiber match the fibers from the blanket, Exhibit 140?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; it did.
Mr. EISENBERG. In what characteristics were they matched?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The fibers in the blanket had a large number of brown viscose fibers, delustered and one fiber I found in the bag was also a viscose fiber of the same type and color as seen under a low-powered microscope. The delustering spots seen on the fiber were the same size, and both fibers were approximately the same diameter.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is viscose, Mr. Stombaugh, as a fiber?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Viscose is fairly common. It is used in many types of garments; it depends on the quality of the garment.
Mr. EISENBERG. And this was delustered viscose, did you say?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. How common is delustered viscose?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. It is most common, I would say. It is more common than lustrous.

Stop deflecting. Your question was 'show us where an expert actually used the word "matched"
My link clearly shows that an expert actually used the word 'matched'.

Multiple times in fact, at times stated directly by Stombaugh, and answered in the affirmative when Eisenberg asked him if the fibers were a match, or matched.

Well?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
Stop deflecting. Your question was 'show us where an expert actually used the word "matched"
My link clearly shows that an expert actually used the word 'matched'.

Multiple times in fact, at times stated directly by Stombaugh, and answered in the affirmative when Eisenberg asked him if the fibers were a match, or matched.

Well?

Read reply 237 on page 24
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on October 26, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Vince Bugliosi:  So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body and you wouldn't have been able to see it.  Is that correct?

Buell Frazier:  That is true.


Frazier admitted that the bag could have been carried by Oswald in a manner different than he (Frazier) previously described.

This is how  the 37" package (if it ever existed) would have had to have been carried (red line) in order for it not to have been seen above Oswald's shoulder. Dotted line indicates the shoulder line. (Anybody who  thinks he would have carried a package at that angle,  needs his head examining.) The green line shows the height it would have been if it had been carried normally.

(Based on model being Oswald's height 69")
(https://i.postimg.cc/brqtyPrQ/Man-figure.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 26, 2018, 02:37:48 PM
Translation: Richard still can't support the WC's claim so he tries to shift the burden onto me. Typical. Why does he support a theory that seems to be indefensible?

Hopeless. I've laid out several times why the bus ride doesn't make sense as a "faked" event and you have responded each time with nonsense like the above.  If you can't articulate a single reason for your conspirators to fake the bus ride, what does that tell about the likelihood that they did so?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 02:58:54 PM
Being unaware of a 2002 interview between Gary Mack and Buell Frazier shows your lack of knowledge of the case.

This lack of knowledge would be acceptable if you hadn't just told another forum member to go back and research some more.

Nice try, but no person can be aware of every interview ever conducted on the JFK assassination. It proves nothing in relation to the OP so who cares?

The fact that you feel the need to belittle others to make yourself look important says it all. Since you have joined this thread you have not even attempted to answer the question of the OP. Why is that?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 03:10:04 PM
Hopeless. I've laid out several times why the bus ride doesn't make sense as a "faked" event and you have responded each time with nonsense like the above.  If you can't articulate a single reason for your conspirators to fake the bus ride, what does that tell about the likelihood that they did so?

For the last time -- I wasn't a co-conspirator so I have no idea why they did anything that they did. Now, why are you unable to support the WC's claim with evidence? Why do you support a theory that is not supported with evidence? Do tell.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 05:49:24 PM
No.

Seriously, this is typical Kook logic where you set some unattainable unknown standard and whenever this perceived level of proof isn't delivered then you seem to claim some sort of hollow victory. Very strange.

What's kooky is concluding that there was a rifle in a bag, based on no evidence whatsoever of a rifle being in a bag.

Quote
1. Nobody had X-Ray vision and could see through the bag.
2. Linnie describes the bag and contents as appearing heavy and bulky towards one end.
3. The bag was crumpled and while a hard unknown object perhaps a rifle caused scratches the origin couldn't be determined.
4. Either Oswald or Frazier and his sister lied about where Oswald put the package.
5. Either Oswald or Frazier lied about the contents of the package.
6. Either Frazier or Oswald lied about where Oswald was getting his lunch.
7. Oswald's prints were on the bag.
8. The bag was found in the same window that multiple eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle, Brennan testified that the man was Oswald.

You're cherry-picking Linnie Mae.  She described the bag as being 27 inches long.  You don't just get to assume that CE142 was the bag that she or Buell saw.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
Yawn, your entire case seems to rely on mistaken eyewitnesses, forged evidence, planted evidence, crooked cops, crooked officials and the list goes on, but still not one shred of proof to support any of your self serving allegations. Go figure.

Says the guy without one shred of proof to support a rifle being in the bag that Frazier saw.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 05:55:44 PM
Vince Bugliosi:  So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body and you wouldn't have been able to see it.  Is that correct?

Buell Frazier:  That is true.


Do we really need to play the word games?  Frazier admitted that the bag could have been carried by Oswald in a manner different than he (Frazier) previously described.

Too bad Frazier didn't realize that Oswald would have to have held a 38-inch bag at a 45 degree angle for it not to have been visible above his shoulder.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 05:57:10 PM
Can you prove that Leavelle, in the weeks and months after the assassination, didn't tell family, friends and coworkers about what Scoggins said at the lineup?

You can see Mack's surprise when Frazier made that claim.  Frazier had never said anything like that before.  I don't give Frazier's statement (that he saw Oswald leave the building) much value, since he apparently waited decades upon decades to make that claim.

Can you quote Frazier ever saying anything like that before?

Can you quote Leavelle ever telling the Scoggins story before?

Double standard?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 06:00:05 PM
Of course you can't find fault with my post because I reckon all your arguments continually revolve around "mistaken eyewitnesses, forged evidence, planted evidence, crooked cops, crooked officials and as I said the list goes on.

Yet another "Mytton" lie.  Pointing out that you have ZERO evidence for a rifle being in the bag that Frazier saw relies on none of those things.

Quote
I just make reasonable inferences based on the evidence whereas in return you make observations which are unreasonable.

And by "reasonable inferences", you mean wild-ass guesses.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 06:12:58 PM
Hopeless. I've laid out several times why the bus ride doesn't make sense as a "faked" event and you have responded each time with nonsense like the above.

That's because "faked event" is yet another "Richard Smith" strawman.  All Caprio is saying is that the claim that Oswald was on McWatters' bus relies on Mary Bledsoe's unsubstantiated claim that she rented a room to him for a week and recognized him, and a bus transfer that was "found in his pocket" hours after his arrest.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 26, 2018, 07:02:08 PM
LOL.  Poor dishonest "John" with his same tired song and dance.  Caprio isn't just saying Oswald's bus ride is unsubstantiated.  He specifically stated that the bus ride story was a cover for Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  So take it up with him if you don't like the characterization of the bus ride as an intentionally "faked event".  The obvious problem with that, as I've pointed out, is that bus ride does not advance that objective because it took Oswald nowhere.  Caprio must have at least a dim realization of this now as he is stuck without an explanation for his silly theory and has reverted to his canned responses.    If the bus ride was not "faked," but just the product of some inexplicable mix up, why does Oswald admit being on the bus, where does his bus transfer come from etc.?  Oswald was either on the bus or there was an effort by someone to make it look as though he was on the bus (i.e. a faked event).  There is no delusion third option. 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 07:59:12 PM
LOL.  Poor dishonest "John" with his same tired song and dance.  Caprio isn't just saying Oswald's bus ride is unsubstantiated.  He specifically stated that the bus ride story was a cover for Oswald getting a ride from someone else.

The same old song and dance is your "fantasy conspirators".  Rob is suggested that the alleged bus ride was used as a cover by the Warren Commission, not by your strawman conspirators setting up a bus ride in advance.

Quote
If the bus ride was not "faked," but just the product of some inexplicable mix up, why does Oswald admit being on the bus, where does his bus transfer come from etc.?

How are you deciding which of Oswald's alleged statements are true and which are not?  He also "admitted" to changing his shirt.

And if Oswald actually had this transfer when he was arrested, why was it not "found" for 2 hours?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 26, 2018, 08:12:10 PM
The same old song and dance is your "fantasy conspirators".  Rob is suggested that the alleged bus ride was used as a cover by the Warren Commission, not by your strawman conspirators setting up a bus ride in advance.

How are you deciding which of Oswald's alleged statements are true and which are not?  He also "admitted" to changing his shirt.

And if Oswald actually had this transfer when he was arrested, why was it not "found" for 2 hours?

Robobleater suggests a lot of things. Can't wait for his press conference.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 08:18:29 PM
Robobleater suggests a lot of things. Can't wait for his press conference.

So do you.

As I recall....
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 26, 2018, 08:36:22 PM
So do you.

As I recall....

Good one

But the difference is, unlike Caprio, I don't claim my musings sink anything... or anyone.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 08:49:16 PM
Good one

But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

When did John claim such a thing?


Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on October 26, 2018, 09:07:19 PM
But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

When did John claim such a thing?

Show us where I said that he did
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 09:35:52 PM
LOL.  Poor dishonest "John" with his same tired song and dance.  Caprio isn't just saying Oswald's bus ride is unsubstantiated.  He specifically stated that the bus ride story was a cover for Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  So take it up with him if you don't like the characterization of the bus ride as an intentionally "faked event".  The obvious problem with that, as I've pointed out, is that bus ride does not advance that objective because it took Oswald nowhere.  Caprio must have at least a dim realization of this now as he is stuck without an explanation for his silly theory and has reverted to his canned responses.    If the bus ride was not "faked," but just the product of some inexplicable mix up, why does Oswald admit being on the bus, where does his bus transfer come from etc.?  Oswald was either on the bus or there was an effort by someone to make it look as though he was on the bus (i.e. a faked event).  There is no delusion third option.

Do you LNers ever tell the truth about what others say? You're UNABLE to support the WC's claims. I merely pointed out what witnesses actually said.

Newsflash  -- the WC NEVER supported their claims (you haven't either) so there is NO need for me to make anything up to counter their claims.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 09:42:20 PM
Good one

But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

The concept of my series, the one that the LNers desperately wanted off the board, was to use statements and evidence to show that the WC's claims were inaccurate and false. Mission accomplished.

Further proof came with its removal. LNers hate the actual evidence and rather love the unsupported claims found in the WCR.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 26, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

When did John claim such a thing?

He is referring to me.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 26, 2018, 09:54:36 PM
Show us where I said that he did

My mistake.  Thumb1:
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 11:48:44 PM
Too bad Frazier didn't realize that Oswald would have to have held a 38-inch bag at a 45 degree angle for it not to have been visible above his shoulder.

The bag could have been visible above Oswald's shoulder and Frazier simply didn't notice it, since ya know, he wasn't paying too much attention and all.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 26, 2018, 11:58:16 PM
The bag could have been visible above Oswald's shoulder and Frazier simply didn't notice it, since ya know, he wasn't paying too much attention and all.

Any lame excuse to jam that square peg into a round hole.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 26, 2018, 11:59:08 PM
So do you.

As I recall....

Good one

But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything


(https://i.imgur.com/89WBPht.jpg)


But the difference is I don't claim my musings sink anything

When did John claim such a thing?

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 27, 2018, 12:03:15 AM
Any lame excuse to jam that square peg into a round hole.

Calling it lame over and over again doesn't make it so.

Having said that, you lead the league in making lame excuses when trying to explain away the evidence against your boy.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 27, 2018, 12:06:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/89WBPht.jpg)

What are you babbling about now?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 27, 2018, 12:13:13 AM
What are you babbling about now?

Just a desperate cry for attention!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 27, 2018, 12:14:55 AM
Calling it lame over and over again doesn't make it so.

No, what makes it lame is that it's lame.  Frazier could have just not noticed a bag sticking up a foot and a half or so over Oswald's shoulder.  Sure.  And monkeys could have spontaneously flown out of Oswald's butt too...

Quote
Having said that, you lead the league in making lame excuses when trying to explain away the evidence against your boy.

So many shades of wrong.  What you call evidence doesn't have to be explained away.  It requires so much speculation and handwaving to even call it evidence.  And he's not my boy -- he's your fall guy.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Steve Logan on October 27, 2018, 12:16:43 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/89WBPht.jpg)
Wow it worked  ??? .
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on October 27, 2018, 12:16:57 AM
Any lame excuse to jam that square peg into a round hole.

Of course it is... Just because the package could have been protruding out doesn't mean it was, regardless if Frazier paid much attention to it or not.

Frazier saw Oswald put the package in his cupped hand and below his armpit before he started walking. A fact the LNs always prefer to ignore!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 27, 2018, 12:20:25 AM
It's time again to mention the canonical list of lame LN excuses for conflicting or contradictory evidence, including their cavalcade of "lying/mistaken" witnesses:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,100.0.html (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,100.0.html)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 27, 2018, 12:26:24 AM
Any lame excuse to jam that square peg into a round hole.

What round hole?

That Oswald bought the rifle eight months before the assassination and shortly thereafter took surveillance photos of General Walkers house and not long after a bullet that was perfectly consistent with Oswald's rifle was found in General Walker's house?
That Oswald was photographed with C2766?
That Oswald told a different story to Frazier and his sister about where he placed the rifle.
That Oswald told a different story to Frazier about the contents of the package?
That Oswald went home mid-week?
That Oswald left behind his Wedding ring
That Oswald left behind the vast majority of his wealth?
That a bag was found in the sniper's nest?
That the bag had Oswald's prints?
That the bag had fibers which matched the fibers in Oswald's blanket, the one that was found empty on the 22nd?
The rifle found on the 6th floor with Oswald's prints?
The rifle on the 6th floor found with fibers that matched Oswald's arrest shirt?

All the evidence leads to only one conclusion that Oswald carried his rifle into the Depository, therefore we are merely putting a square peg in the appropriate square hole and btw is your side ever going to tell us how Oswald's rifle ended up on the 6th floor, was it a magic rifle?

Without any supporting evidence to contradict any of these events how do you honestly believe that any investigation could come to an alternate conclusion to the Warren Commission?

JohnM

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Mytton on October 27, 2018, 01:04:02 AM

So many shades of wrong.  What you call evidence doesn't have to be explained away.  It requires so much speculation and handwaving to even call it evidence.  And he's not my boy -- he's your fall guy.


 :D

OK Iacoletti or whatever your name is, let's look at the basics of the rifle order and see who has to speculate and handwave?

Typical CT speculation and hand waving.

 Even though the Kleins microfilm evidence contains a photo of the coupon and envelope together(CE773), I'll just handwave the envelope away?

 Speculate that Oswald couldn't have received the rifle?

 Speculate that the Backyard photos are fake?

 Speculate that Oswald was photographed with some other Carcano, eight months before the assassination?

 Handwave away all the testimony from Marina and the de Mohrenschildt's?

 Speculate how the rifle ended up on the 6th floor?

 Speculate how Oswald prints ended up on the long brown paper bag found in the sniper's nest?

 Speculate how Oswald's prints ended up on the rifle?

 Speculate how fibers that matched Oswald's arrest shirt were found on the rifle?

So Iacoletti or whatever your name is, go and speculate and handwave away the evidence to your heart's content but don't accuse us of doing the same because we rely on supporting evidence.

JohnM
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on October 27, 2018, 01:10:10 AM
Wow it worked  ??? .

 :D   Indeed.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2018, 07:30:34 PM
What round hole?

That Oswald bought the rifle eight months before the assassination

You haven't proven that Oswald bought anything.

Quote
and shortly thereafter took surveillance photos of General Walkers house

You haven't proven that Oswald took surveillance photos of General Walkers house.

Quote
and not long after a bullet that was perfectly consistent with Oswald's rifle was found in General Walker's house?

You mean the steel-jacketed bullet that Walker said was not CE 573?

Quote
That Oswald was photographed with C2766?

You haven't proven that Oswald was photographed with C2766.

Quote
That Oswald told a different story to Frazier and his sister about where he placed the rifle.

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That Oswald told a different story to Frazier about the contents of the package?

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That Oswald went home mid-week?

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That Oswald left behind his Wedding ring

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That Oswald left behind the vast majority of his wealth?

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That a bag was found in the sniper's nest?

Not according to the first 6 or 7 law enforcement officers to see the "sniper's nest".

Quote
That the bag had Oswald's prints?

I don't know what you think that proves.

Quote
That the bag had fibers which matched the fibers in Oswald's blanket, the one that was found empty on the 22nd?

And by "matched", you mean not unique to any specific blanket.

P.S.:

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/blanket-bag-photo.jpeg)

Quote
The rifle found on the 6th floor with Oswald's prints?

No, the rifle had prints near the trigger guard that were useless for identification purposes, and a single partial palmprint showed up a week later on an index card.

Quote
The rifle on the 6th floor found with fibers that matched Oswald's arrest shirt?

And by "matched", you mean not unique to any specific shirt.

Quote
All the evidence leads to only one conclusion that Oswald carried his rifle into the Depository,

Only by injecting a mountain of speculation, assumption, handwaving, and flat out false claims about the evidence.

Quote
therefore we are merely putting a square peg in the appropriate square hole and btw is your side ever going to tell us how Oswald's rifle ended up on the 6th floor, was it a magic rifle?

"Oswald's rifle".  LOL.

Quote
Without any supporting evidence to contradict any of these events how do you honestly believe that any investigation could come to an alternate conclusion to the Warren Commission?

Those aren't "events", they are your usual misrepresentations of the evidence.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 28, 2018, 07:40:56 PM
  Even though the Kleins microfilm evidence contains a photo of the coupon and envelope together(CE773), I'll just handwave the envelope away?

How does that show that that coupon arrived in that envelope?  By the way, let's see the microfilm.  Oops.

Quote
Speculate that Oswald couldn't have received the rifle?

Says the guy with no evidence that Oswald received any rifle.

Quote
Speculate that the Backyard photos are fake?

I never speculated about that.

Quote
Speculate that Oswald was photographed with some other Carcano, eight months before the assassination?

Says the guy with no evidence that the rifle in the photo is C2766.

Quote
Handwave away all the testimony from Marina and the de Mohrenschildt's?

What testimony?  None of them ever identified the serial number of the rifle they saw.

Quote
Speculate how the rifle ended up on the 6th floor?

That would be you speculating (without any evidence) how that rifle ended up on the 6th floor.

Quote
Speculate how Oswald prints ended up on the long brown paper bag found in the sniper's nest?

Says the guy with no evidence that a long brown paper bag was found in the "sniper's nest".   Or when.  Or where is was located.  Or how it was folded.  Or who picked it up.

Quote
Speculate how Oswald's prints ended up on the rifle?

Says the guy with no evidence that Oswald's prints ended up on the rifle.

Quote
Speculate how fibers that matched Oswald's arrest shirt were found on the rifle?

Says the guy with no evidence as to what specific shirt the fibers came from.

Quote
So Iacoletti or whatever your name is, go and speculate and handwave away the evidence to your heart's content but don't accuse us of doing the same because we rely on supporting evidence.

I see a lot of claims here.  "Supporting evidence"...not so much.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Patrick Jackson on October 28, 2018, 08:49:44 PM
Hard to believe and understand that absolutely nobody came forward to DPD, FBI and stated that he saw Oswald crossing the Main street.
He must have stepped, walked in front of couple of dozens spectators.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vv8PVYF5/main.jpg)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 29, 2018, 02:40:28 PM
The LNers have still NOT provided one witness for showing that the WC's guess was accurate.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Zeon Mason on October 29, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
nor photographed or captured in any motion film during walking those 7 blocks, or after that, walking the 4 blocks to William Whaley taxi cab.


It does SEEM to defy probability, but then no photo or film captured the alleged event seen by Roger Craig: Oswald at 12:45 running from the SW corner of TSBD down to Elm st to get into Rambler stationwagon driven by DC man, after a whistle was blown.



Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 29, 2018, 10:48:28 PM
nor photographed or captured in any motion film during walking those 7 blocks, or after that, walking the 4 blocks to William Whaley taxi cab.


It does SEEM to defy probability, but then no photo or film captured the alleged event seen by Roger Craig: Oswald at 12:45 running from the SW corner of TSBD down to Elm st to get into Rambler stationwagon driven by DC man, after a whistle was blown.

Roger Craig was corroborated by Marvin Robinson. That's two witnesses. As you said, the WC's guess has NO supporting evidence.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 30, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
No one besides Bledsoe put LHO on that bus. The WC failed to show that Bledsoe knew LHO prior to 11/22/63 to recognize him.

Why can't you cite supporting evidence for your claim regarding JDT and the bus?

Bus transfer and Oswald's admission.  Other than that...btw still waiting for you to explain why anyone would fake Oswald getting on a bus that took him nowhere.  What was the purpose of that risky and seemingly pointless exercise again?  Your conspirators didn't have enough on their hands that day assassinating the president, getting the real assassin out of harm's way, and framing Oswald.  They also had time to arrange a false bus ride that would include locating a bus in the area at the appropriate time and somehow convincing a bus load of passengers not to say otherwise.  All for no apparent reason.   Great plan.  Very convincing.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 30, 2018, 01:51:31 PM
Bus transfer and Oswald's admission.  Other than that...btw still waiting for you to explain why anyone would fake Oswald getting on a bus that took him nowhere.  What was the purpose of that risky and seemingly pointless exercise again?  Your conspirators didn't have enough on their hands that day assassinating the president, getting the real assassin out of harm's way, and framing Oswald.  They also had time to arrange a false bus ride that would include locating a bus in the area at the appropriate time and somehow convincing a bus load of passengers not to say otherwise.  All for no apparent reason.   Great plan.  Very convincing.

Neither one was shown to be factual. Fritz did you guys a big disservice by not recording the supposed interrogations. You are left with *claims* of what LHO supposedly said.

The bus transfer wasn't found on LHO at the time of his arrest, thus, it is worthless. Especially when you add in the fact that the man who handed it out said that he didn't give it to LHO.

Face it, the WC's guess is sunk.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 30, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
It is clear by now that this claim/guess by the WC is inaccurate and unsupportable. 🚾
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 30, 2018, 02:13:10 PM
Neither one was shown to be factual. Fritz did you guys a big disservice by not recording the supposed interrogations. You are left with *claims* of what LHO supposedly said.

The bus transfer wasn't found on LHO at the time of his arrest, thus, it is worthless. Especially when you add in the fact that the man who handed it out said that he didn't give it to LHO.

Face it, the WC's guess is sunk.

Still no answer to my question?  If Fritz had recorded the interrogations, you would simply claim the recordings were false.  Why in the world would Fritz falsely claim Oswald was on a bus that took him nowhere? 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 30, 2018, 02:17:58 PM
Still no answer to my question?  If Fritz had recorded the interrogations, you would simply claim the recordings were false.  Why in the world would Fritz falsely claim Oswald was on a bus that took him nowhere?

Your question is a straw man. The evidence that you ignore shows that LHO was never on McWatters' bus or in Whaley's cab. End of story.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 30, 2018, 03:28:10 PM
Your question is a straw man. The evidence that you ignore shows that LHO was never on McWatters' bus or in Whaley's cab. End of story.

The end of the story is that you can't even articulate a single reason your fantasy conspirators or WC would fake Oswald's presence on the bus.  Oswald himself admitted being on the bus.  You are calling your hero a liar.  If there were any doubt, he has the bus transfer in his pocket. 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 30, 2018, 04:06:29 PM
Bus transfer and Oswald's admission.  Other than that...btw still waiting for you to explain why anyone would fake Oswald getting on a bus that took him nowhere.  What was the purpose of that risky and seemingly pointless exercise again?  Your conspirators didn't have enough on their hands that day assassinating the president, getting the real assassin out of harm's way, and framing Oswald.  They also had time to arrange a false bus ride that would include locating a bus in the area at the appropriate time and somehow convincing a bus load of passengers not to say otherwise.  All for no apparent reason.   Great plan.  Very convincing.

Yet another "Richard Smith" strawman.  Rob never claimed that conspirators arranged a false bus ride.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 30, 2018, 04:13:31 PM
The end of the story is that you can't even articulate a single reason your fantasy conspirators or WC would fake Oswald's presence on the bus.

Rob has already explained his position on this:  to divert from the testimony that Oswald got into a car with another individual.  Don't blame your lack of attention on him.

Quote
  Oswald himself admitted being on the bus.  You are calling your hero a liar.

Again with the "hero" rhetoric.  You don't know what Oswald admitted to.

Quote
  If there were any doubt, he has the bus transfer in his pocket.

Of course he did.  The police just couldn't find it for two hours.  Or those .38 bullets.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 30, 2018, 05:17:26 PM
Poor dishonest John can't keep up again.  I'm fully aware that Caprio is claiming that the bus ride was to cover up Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  The issue is why would Caprio's fantasy conspirators or even the WC fake Oswald's presence on a bus ride which does not achieve that purpose because the bus takes Oswald nowhere.  Can you comprehend that simple and obvious point?  The cab ride would achieve any objective to explain how Oswald got to his boardinghouse.  There would be no need and substantial risk to fake a ride on some random bus with a load of passengers.   What difference does it make how long the police took to find the bus transfer in his pocket?  It was in his pocket. This from the kooky contrarian who reverts to his strawman nonsense whenever someone indicates he is suggesting evidence has been faked or planted.  But here you not only suggest the transfer was planted on him but that Oswald's own admission that he was on the bus is suspect.  But you are not implying a conspiracy - right? 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 30, 2018, 08:15:30 PM
Poor dishonest John can't keep up again.  I'm fully aware that Caprio is claiming that the bus ride was to cover up Oswald getting a ride from someone else.

Poor dishonest Richard invokes a false bus ride that Caprio never posited to answer his own question that he claims to already know the answer to.

If the bus ride goes nowhere then why are you so attached to Oswald having been on that bus?

Quote
What difference does it make how long the police took to find the bus transfer in his pocket?  It was in his pocket.

And you know this...how?

And you know that Oswald admitted to being on McWatter's bus...how, exactly?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 30, 2018, 08:45:05 PM
The end of the story is that you can't even articulate a single reason your fantasy conspirators or WC would fake Oswald's presence on the bus.  Oswald himself admitted being on the bus.  You are calling your hero a liar.  If there were any doubt, he has the bus transfer in his pocket.

Are really dense or just dishonest? I told you that I was not involved in planning of the conspiracy so I have no idea what was planned or done, but you just ignore this.

You are taking claims that we have NO idea about in regards to them being honest or not and stating them as being facts. That is dishonest.

You cannot provide any supporting evidence for the WC's claims. NONE. For the 10th time, the bus transfer is NOT evidence of anything.

Why not answer this question? I have asked it many times and you 🏃‍♂️ from answering it everytime. Why do you choose to support a theory that has NO supporting evidence behind it?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 30, 2018, 08:56:23 PM
Poor dishonest John can't keep up again.  I'm fully aware that Caprio is claiming that the bus ride was to cover up Oswald getting a ride from someone else.  The issue is why would Caprio's fantasy conspirators or even the WC fake Oswald's presence on a bus ride which does not achieve that purpose because the bus takes Oswald nowhere.  Can you comprehend that simple and obvious point?  The cab ride would achieve any objective to explain how Oswald got to his boardinghouse.  There would be no need and substantial risk to fake a ride on some random bus with a load of passengers.   What difference does it make how long the police took to find the bus transfer in his pocket?  It was in his pocket. This from the kooky contrarian who reverts to his strawman nonsense whenever someone indicates he is suggesting evidence has been faked or planted.  But here you not only suggest the transfer was planted on him but that Oswald's own admission that he was on the bus is suspect.  But you are not implying a conspiracy - right?

You are the furthest thing away from being fully aware as you claim that I have seen. I NEVER claimed what you are attributing to me. I simply said, "Since the the WC didn't provide supporting evidence for their claim then I will make my own claim that he received a ride out of DP." I didn't get into what you are attributing to me, but it is most likely the reason that the WC felt the need to create the two scenarios that have NO supporting evidence.

The WC's main goal was to squash any thoughts of a conspiracy.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on October 31, 2018, 03:50:50 PM
First of all, they're not my fantasy conspirators as you falsely state. There were conspirators because there was a conspiracy based on the evidence.

To answer your very long question simply  -- that ridiculous scenario was better than admitting that LHO received a ride since that would show that he had people working with him.

Caprio has repeatedly claimed there was a conspiracy and the purpose of faking Oswald's presence on the bus was to cover up Oswald having gotten a ride from someone else.  He apparently now realizes that makes no sense because a fake bus ride does not explain how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the bus took him nowhere and the "fake" cab ride would have sufficed for that purpose.  Now he is running away. Dishonest John apparently knows this as well.  Here are the options:

1) Oswald was on the bus and received the transfer as the WC indicated.
2) Oswald was not on the bus and the bus transfer was planted on him by either a conspirator or the police to make it appear that he had been on the bus. 

If you reject option 1 (as Caprio clearly does), then option 2 is by implication what is being suggesting.  And that brings me to the question that I have repeated multiple times without a sensible response.  Why would a conspirator or the authorities fake Oswald's presence on a bus that takes him nowhere?  It advances no apparent purpose for the conspirators or police and entails considerable risk.  So why claim he was on the bus and plant evidence to support this claim?  Again, if the bus ride was to explain how Oswald reached his boarding house and cover up assistance from someone else, the bus ride does not do that.  It serves no purpose because it took Oswald nowhere and the cab ride would suffice for that purpose.  As a result, a faked bus ride makes no sense as part of any plan to frame Oswald or cover up a conspiracy.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 31, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
Caprio has repeatedly claimed there was a conspiracy and the purpose of faking Oswald's presence on the bus was to cover up Oswald having gotten a ride from someone else.  He apparently now realizes that makes no sense because a fake bus ride does not explain how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the bus took him nowhere and the "fake" cab ride would have sufficed for that purpose.  Now he is running away. Dishonest John apparently knows this as well.  Here are the options:

1) Oswald was on the bus and received the transfer as the WC indicated.
2) Oswald was not on the bus and the bus transfer was planted on him by either a conspirator or the police to make it appear that he had been on the bus. 

If you reject option 1 (as Caprio clearly does), then option 2 is by implication what is being suggesting.  And that brings me to the question that I have repeated multiple times without a sensible response.  Why would a conspirator or the authorities fake Oswald's presence on a bus that takes him nowhere?  It advances no apparent purpose for the conspirators or police and entails considerable risk.  So why claim he was on the bus and plant evidence to support this claim?  Again, if the bus ride was to explain how Oswald reached his boarding house and cover up assistance from someone else, the bus ride does not do that.  It serves no purpose because it took Oswald nowhere and the cab ride would suffice for that purpose.  As a result, a faked bus ride makes no sense as part of any plan to frame Oswald or cover up a conspiracy.

Then quote me doing so. The main point is that you CANNOT support the WC's claim so you are trying to divert attention from that by making it about me. The question in the OP was pretty basic  but you can't answer it with supporting evidence.

This is all hot air and distraction. Thanks for proving that the WC wasn't able to support their claims/guesses.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on October 31, 2018, 06:51:16 PM
He apparently now realizes that makes no sense because a fake bus ride does not explain how Oswald got to his boardinghouse because the bus took him nowhere and the "fake" cab ride would have sufficed for that purpose.  Now he is running away. Dishonest John apparently knows this as well.

Once again, Lyin' "Richard":

Nobody is claiming that McWatters' bus trip was "faked" by anyone.  The question at hand is what is your evidence that Oswald was on that bus?  You're doing what you always do -- making up a strawman because of your inability to justify your case.

Quote
  Here are the options:

1) Oswald was on the bus and received the transfer as the WC indicated.
2) Oswald was not on the bus and the bus transfer was planted on him by either a conspirator or the police to make it appear that he had been on the bus.

What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him?

The bus trip serves a couple of purposes:

- It lends support to Oswald leaving the TSBD within minutes, which for some strange reason the LN brigade considers evidence of murder.  And also (via McWatters) that Oswald was in a hurry to get on the bus since he knocked on the door to get on mid-block.  Which the LN brigade also considers evidence of murder.

- It lends support (via Bledsoe's claims) that Oswald did not change his shirt before he was arrested.  Without that, the fiber "analysis" that tries to link the shirt with the parking lot jacket and with the rifle are worthless.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on October 31, 2018, 10:50:21 PM
The OP question has NOT been answered by the WC defenders, and they have failed to provide any supporting evidence for the WC's claim.

This was a false claim by the WC, but there are those in this thread trying to support it. Why?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on November 01, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
Again, dishonest John is not getting it.  He claims that no one has suggested that the bus trip was "faked" but without pause suggests the bus transfer was planted on Oswald!  Why would anyone plant a bus transfer on Oswald and falsely claim he admitted to being on the bus unless they were trying to "fake" his presence on the bus?  Dishonest John tries to have it both ways.  Suggesting the facts are suspect as a product of lies and fakery but then denying he is claiming any conspiracy that would necessitate some proof or least an explanation for the fakery.  It's the height of intellectual dishonesty.  The dishonest tactic of a defense attorney trying to conjure arguments to defend a guilty client.   And his possible explanations for the fake bus ride (the one nobody here is suggesting is fake LOL) are laughable. 

There is no need to fake Oswald's presence on the bus to demonstrate that he left the TSBD as John suggests.  The cab ride would do that.  And then he is seen at his boardinghouse.  That is an absurd explanation for the bus ride story.  Even Dishonest John should be embarrassed by that one.   His second attempt is slightly better but that is not saying much.  The purpose of the fake bus ride with all the risk that entailed - including convincing a random bus load of passengers not to blow the story - is to support the contention that Oswald didn't change shirts!  LOL.   This is evidence John otherwise says is meaningless because the authorities only said the fibers were consistent with the shirt.  If they went through this elaborate and risky charade just to link Oswald to the shirt, then they certainly would have found that the fibers were a match.   It's laughable.  According to dishonest John, the authorities faked and planted evidence but then they failed to confirm their own fake evidence.  Good grief.  You should be ashamed to peddle that nonsense.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Smith on November 01, 2018, 02:36:01 PM
Are really dense or just dishonest? I told you that I was not involved in planning of the conspiracy so I have no idea what was planned or done, but you just ignore this.

You are taking claims that we have NO idea about in regards to them being honest or not and stating them as being facts. That is dishonest.

You cannot provide any supporting evidence for the WC's claims. NONE. For the 10th time, the bus transfer is NOT evidence of anything.

Why not answer this question? I have asked it many times and you 🏃‍♂️ from answering it everytime. Why do you choose to support a theory that has NO supporting evidence behind it?

Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense like an automated device that is stuck?  Evidence of Oswald's presence on the bus is the bus transfer, his own admission, and the confirmation of a witness.  Do you believe that the bus transfer is genuine and that Oswald obtained it from the bus?  Do you accept Oswald's admission that he was on the bus?  The answer is no.  That means by implication that you are alleging this evidence was faked by someone.  If someone faked that evidence, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the purpose was to place Oswald on the bus.  This is not complicated even for you.  Particularly since it is your claim.  That is the direct implication that you are making by suggesting the evidence is false whether you like it or not.  I understand your reluctance to own this claim because you can't articulate a single plausible reason to fake Oswald's presence on the bus.   Just going round in circles with your silly canned responses.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 01, 2018, 07:26:58 PM
Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense like an automated device that is stuck?  Evidence of Oswald's presence on the bus is the bus transfer, his own admission, and the confirmation of a witness.  Do you believe that the bus transfer is genuine and that Oswald obtained it from the bus?  Do you accept Oswald's admission that he was on the bus?  The answer is no.  That means by implication that you are alleging this evidence was faked by someone.  If someone faked that evidence, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the purpose was to place Oswald on the bus.  This is not complicated even for you.  Particularly since it is your claim.  That is the direct implication that you are making by suggesting the evidence is false whether you like it or not.  I understand your reluctance to own this claim because you can't articulate a single plausible reason to fake Oswald's presence on the bus.   Just going round in circles with your silly canned responses.

Says the guy who repeats the same nonsense over and over again in one long paragraph.

You have NO supporting evidence. You simply regurgitate the WC's unsupported claims over and over again. You refuse to tell us why you support a theory that has NO supporting evidence (i.e. it's a made up theory). How come?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Again, dishonest John is not getting it.  He claims that no one has suggested that the bus trip was "faked" but without pause suggests the bus transfer was planted on Oswald!

The usual "Richard Smith" lying BS.  Make something up and claim that the other person "suggested" it.

Quote
  Why would anyone plant a bus transfer on Oswald

You ignored the question the first time.  Let's try again:  what makes you think that bus transfer was ever "on Oswald"?

Quote
and falsely claim he admitted to being on the bus unless they were trying to "fake" his presence on the bus?

So first the whole bus trip was faked and then that changes to just Oswald's presence being faked.  Squirming, lying, "Richard".

Quote
The purpose of the fake bus ride with all the risk that entailed - including convincing a random bus load of passengers not to blow the story

So now Lying "Richard" thinks that there was a "bus load of passengers" that place Oswald on "Richard's" fake bus.  You're the one who should be embarrassed.  Your strawmen get more absurd by the hour.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 01, 2018, 09:55:26 PM
Do you accept Oswald's admission that he was on the bus?

Lying "Richard" strikes again.  By what account did Oswald "admit" that he was on this specific bus?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on November 01, 2018, 10:32:21 PM
what makes you think that bus transfer was ever "on Oswald"?

According to Fritz, Oswald admitted receiving the transfer from the bus driver (McWatters).
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 02, 2018, 01:12:51 AM
According to Fritz, Oswald admitted receiving the transfer from the bus driver (McWatters).
Yeah -Was in his notes.....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=7&tab=page
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 02, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
Still no supporting evidence for the WC's claim in the OP.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 02, 2018, 07:57:29 PM
I don't believe Oswald protested that he was being set up as a patsy.
 
Complete nonsense ...He was asked no less than three times if he killed the president   
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on November 02, 2018, 10:43:33 PM
Complete nonsense ...He was asked no less than three times if he killed the president   
 

You're not bright enough to understand my point.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 03, 2018, 12:02:17 AM
You're not bright enough to understand my point.
sez u  ...pull your head out and watch the video.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 03, 2018, 09:06:03 PM
Complete nonsense ...He was asked no less than three times if he killed the president   
 

Oswald: I didn't shoot anyone. (Smirks).
Freeman: Okay, my darling angel... you're free to go.
Oswald: (Smirks)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 04, 2018, 04:37:54 AM
Once again, Lyin' "Richard":

Nobody is claiming that McWatters' bus trip was "faked" by anyone.  The question at hand is what is your evidence that Oswald was on that bus?  You're doing what you always do -- making up a strawman because of your inability to justify your case.

What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him?

The bus trip serves a couple of purposes:

- It lends support to Oswald leaving the TSBD within minutes, which for some strange reason the LN brigade considers evidence of murder.  And also (via McWatters) that Oswald was in a hurry to get on the bus since he knocked on the door to get on mid-block.  Which the LN brigade also considers evidence of murder.

- It lends support (via Bledsoe's claims) that Oswald did not change his shirt before he was arrested.  Without that, the fiber "analysis" that tries to link the shirt with the parking lot jacket and with the rifle are worthless.

The bus trip serves a couple of purposes
>>> Yeah, your gaslighting purposes

It lends support to Oswald leaving the TSBD within minutes, which for some strange reason the LN brigade considers evidence of murder.
>>> Abruptly leaving the scene of the crime doesn't help his case.

And also (via McWatters) that Oswald was in a hurry to get on the bus since he knocked on the door to get on mid-block. Which the LN brigade also considers evidence of murder
>>> So in the middle of a traffic jam he had to get on right away? LOL.

What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him?
>>> Fritz's notes via https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1101

BTW, you've once again demonstrated what I have been pointing out all along: That you pick out one piece of evidence at a time and claim that we hold that up as proof of murder.

For some strange reason. Gaslighter.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 05, 2018, 04:51:01 AM
Still no supporting evidence for the WC's claim in the opening post. It can be safely deduced by now that the WC was incorrect in their claim. What else where they incorrect about?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 05, 2018, 08:47:56 PM
Oswald: I didn't shoot anyone. (Smirks).
Freeman: Okay, my darling angel... you're free to go.
Oswald: (Smirks)

Speaking of smirks....this is apparently Chapman's best argument that Oswald did it.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 05, 2018, 08:56:39 PM
The bus trip serves a couple of purposes
>>> Yeah, your gaslighting purposes

Spoken like a guy who just learned a new word and wants to use it for every occasion.

Quote
>>> Abruptly leaving the scene of the crime doesn't help his case.

Lots of people abruptly left the scene of the crime.

Quote
>>> So in the middle of a traffic jam he had to get on right away? LOL.

It's your narrative -- you explain it.  Makes no sense for a murderer trying to escape either...

Quote
What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him?
>>> Fritz's notes via https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1101

LOL.  All Fritz's notes say is "got trans same out of pocket".

Quote
BTW, you've once again demonstrated what I have been pointing out all along: That you pick out one piece of evidence at a time and claim that we hold that up as proof of murder.

Quote me ever saying that anyone is holding up the bus transfer as proof of murder.  How long do you plan on lying about this?

I honestly don't know what LNs think the bus transfer is proof of.  I don't even think they know.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 06, 2018, 10:13:13 AM


Spoken like a guy who just learned a new word and wants to use it for every occasion.
>>> Nah, just where applicable. Meaning every CT on the planet. 

Lots of people abruptly left the scene of the crime.
>>> How soon and how many from his workplace? Did any have permission?

It's your narrative -- you explain it. 
>>> Okay: Fewer ?eyes on?. Need that explained too?

Makes no sense for a murderer trying to escape either...
>>> Not unless he suddenly decided he should get off the street.

LOL.  All Fritz's notes say is "got trans same out of pocket".
>>> Obviously meant got trans out of same pocket

Quote me ever saying that anyone is holding up the bus transfer as proof of murder.  How long do you plan on lying about this?
>>> Quote me saying anything about the bus transfer other than linking to Fritz?s notes re said transfer. (After all, you said ?What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him??)
? Reply #350 on: October 31, 2018, 11:51:16 PM ?

However I can quote you saying we hold up other (single) pieces up as of evidence murder. You constantly pop up and whine about that:

Reply #350 on: October 31, 2018, 11:51:16 PM ?
Iacoletti It lends support to Oswald leaving the TSBD within minutes, which for some strange reason the LN brigade considers evidence of murder.

And also (via McWatters) that Oswald was in a hurry to get on the bus since he knocked on the door to get on mid-block. Which the LN brigade also considers evidence of murder

I honestly don't know what LNs think the bus transfer is proof of.  I don't even think they know.
>>> Proof that he took a bus on Nov 22 in the PM. 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2018, 04:40:34 PM
>>> Quote me saying anything about the bus transfer other than linking to Fritz?s notes re said transfer. (After all, you said ?What makes you think that bus transfer was ever on him??)

Yes, and your answer was Fritz?s notes.  Care to explain?

Quote
However I can quote you saying we hold up other (single) pieces up as of evidence murder.

"as of evidence murder"?  Who are you, Yoda?

But you do hold other (single) pieces up as evidence of murder.  Are you denying that?  You did it just now by claiming that Oswald got on a bus to get eyes off of him, with no evidence of that whatsoever.  However, how does that justify your false claim that I accused you of holding up the bus transfer as proof of murder?

Quote
I honestly don't know what LNs think the bus transfer is proof of.  I don't even think they know.
>>> Proof that he took a bus on Nov 22 in the PM.

How does a bus transfer prove that he took anything?

But regardless, would you care to explain what that's doing on lists of "evidence" for Oswald's guilt in the assassination of JFK?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
Did Rosa or Wanda ever say that Sarah told them she saw Oswald outside the 2nd floor lunchroom?  If the answer is no, then stop claiming that she did.  It's dishonest.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 06, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
It's because you don't have the evidence, and you know it.  There's enough misinformation on this forum without you adding to it.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 07, 2018, 06:25:07 PM



Yet another claim that you have provided no evidence for.  You're a piece of work.  Why would anybody believe a single thing you say?

Nobody does, John.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 08, 2018, 05:51:58 PM
Whaley said he was parked at Lamar and Jackson (seven blocks away from the TSBD) when at 12.30pm, he saw Oswald walking towards him from the Commerce, to the North. How did Oswald get from the TSBD to that place and the time still be 12.30? Seven blocks would take at least ten minutes at a brisk walk.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 08, 2018, 06:07:17 PM
Whaley said he was parked at Lamar and Jackson (seven blocks away from the TSBD) when at 12.30pm, he saw Oswald walking towards him from the Commerce, to the North. How did Oswald get from the TSBD to that place and the time still be 12.30? Seven blocks would take at least ten minutes at a brisk walk.

Whaley didn't say it was definitely 12.30pm when Oswald walked towards him did he?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 08, 2018, 06:42:58 PM
Whaley didn't say it was definitely 12.30pm when Oswald walked towards him did he?

Yes.https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7461270

W aren testimony.
"Mr. BALL. And you put the trip ending Greyhound around 12:30?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You remember that trip, do you, you remember the fact that you took the trip to the Greyhound and parked your car at the Greyhound or your cab at the Greyhound, don't you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I remember it.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing at the Greyhound, at your cab stand at the Greyhound, long before you picked up another passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, there was no one at the Greyhound stand and when I unloaded at the door I just pulled up about 30 feet to the stand and stopped and then I wanted a package of cigarettes, I was out so I started to get out and I saw this passenger coming so I waited for him. `"
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 08, 2018, 06:47:28 PM
Yes.

Where? He said in an interview I watched it could have been as late as 12.45 as he only estimated the time in 15 minute blocks. Where did he say it was definitely 12.30?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 08, 2018, 07:00:19 PM
So put the previous trip ending around 12.30, then went on to say how he estimated times and wrote them down in 15 minute blocks so timings could be out by 10 or 15 minutes. Can't see where he says it was definitely 12.30.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 08, 2018, 07:13:27 PM
Where? He said in an interview I watched it could have been as late as 12.45 as he only estimated the time in 15 minute blocks. Where did he say it was definitely 12.30?

His own trip sheet (CE 382) refutes the claim that he only estimated the time in 15 minute blocks.

(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0500a.jpg)

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 08, 2018, 08:10:47 PM
Where? He said in an interview I watched it could have been as late as 12.45 as he only estimated the time in 15 minute blocks. Where did he say it was definitely 12.30?

see above
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 08, 2018, 10:05:13 PM
see above

You edited your post to add the testimony. But you haven't addressed my points about his testimony or shown that he said it was definitely 12.30. If you make a point relating to timings those timings need to be fairly certain don't you agree?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 08, 2018, 10:05:33 PM
Whaley said he was parked at Lamar and Jackson (seven blocks away from the TSBD) when at 12.30pm, he saw Oswald walking towards him from the Commerce, to the North. How did Oswald get from the TSBD to that place and the time still be 12.30? Seven blocks would take at least ten minutes at a brisk walk.

This would exonerate LHO of the assassination all by itself.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 08, 2018, 11:59:11 PM
Whaley said he was parked at Lamar and Jackson (seven blocks away from the TSBD) when at 12.30pm, he saw Oswald walking towards him from the Commerce, to the North. How did Oswald get from the TSBD to that place and the time still be 12.30? Seven blocks would take at least ten minutes at a brisk walk.

Try reading Whaley's testimony and find out.

WHALEY. Well, about 12:30 as you say, sir; I was at the Greyhound bus station. I have a copy of my trip sheet here.
Mr. BALL. Could I see that, please?
Mr. WHALEY. The FBI took the original and the pictures of the cab and everything.
Mr. BALL. That is what I have been waiting for.
Mr. WHALEY. I think it is supposed to be delivered to you, sir.
Mr. BALL. That is right. I am glad you have that copy.
Mr. WHALEY. I thought maybe you might need it. You look down there it says Greyhound, 500 North Beckley, I think it is marked 12:30 to 12:45. Now that could have been 10 minutes off in each direction because I didn't use a watch, I just guess, in other words, all my trips are marked about 15 minutes each.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Brown on November 09, 2018, 08:26:44 AM
Some say Oswald shot Kennedy before leaving the Depository, which he did, the little Marxist creep.  Better if he had never been born.

Agreed, but at least the wretched waif got what he deserved in the end.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 09, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
Mr. WHALEY. I thought maybe you might need it. You look down there it says Greyhound, 500 North Beckley, I think it is marked 12:30 to 12:45. Now that could have been 10 minutes off in each direction because I didn't use a watch, I just guess, in other words, all my trips are marked about 15 minutes each.

The narrative has the cab ride at 12:48.  How is this "10 minutes off" of 12:30?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 10, 2018, 12:13:59 AM
Still no evidence provided by the WC defenders to support the WC's claim in OP. Why do they support guesses?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 10, 2018, 08:07:33 AM
The narrative has the cab ride at 12:48.  How is this "10 minutes off" of 12:30?

FFS. Whalley didn't have a watch, he was guessing

Reply #452
"The trip sheet says 12:30 - 12:45"

That provides some leeway for 12:48 and a 10 minute estimate
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 10, 2018, 08:13:38 AM
Still no evidence provided by the WC defenders to support the WC's claim in OP. Why do they support guesses?

The OP itself is that of an adolescent. Tell us who would know anything about Oswald as he walked those blocks, just a few minutes after the assassination. You seem to be implying that the genpop should have already been on the lookout for him.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 10, 2018, 04:42:05 PM
The OP itself is adolescent

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 10, 2018, 09:04:16 PM
The narrative has the cab ride at 12:48.  How is this "10 minutes off" of 12:30?

Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.
Mr. BALL. Anything up to 15 minutes, you say?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir..
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 10, 2018, 09:05:29 PM
:D :D :D

Note my recent edit
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 10, 2018, 10:30:41 PM
Quote from: John Iacoletti on November 09, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
   
Quote
The narrative has the cab ride at 12:48.  How is this "10 minutes off" of 12:30?
FFS. Whalley didn't have a watch, he was guessing...That provides some leeway for 12:48 and a 10 minute estimate.
So what are we saying? According to the plug posted in reply #4..Oswald got into the cab at 12:48. That provides 12 minutes for him [according to the WC report to arrive by this cab at a location 6 blocks from his room and walk beck to his room and go in to his room and change his clothes and supposedly locate a firearm....and all these re-enactments are done utilizing fanciful speculation at best.
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 11, 2018, 02:07:41 AM
The OP itself is that of an adolescent. Tell us who would know anything about Oswald as he walked those blocks, just a few minutes after the assassination. You seem to be implying that the genpop should have already been on the lookout for him.

So you are saying that one of the largest "investigations" in history couldn't determine what LHO actually did in the minutes following the assassination? IF that is the case, why didn't they just admit this instead of inventing a false scenario?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 11, 2018, 03:57:12 AM
So you are saying that one of the largest "investigations" in history couldn't determine what LHO actually did in the minutes following the assassination? IF that is the case, why didn't they just admit this instead of inventing a false scenario?

Try reading my post carefully: I was talking about the people that might be on the street as Oswald walked away from the TSBD.

Actually the WC did eventually determine what happened in the minutes following the assassination.
You must be calling Whalley, etc a liar. 

IMHO, you lot are twisting like pretzels... misrepresenting, misunderstanding, cherrypicking & splitting hairs in a failed attempt to whittle down the evidence to fit your square pegs into round holes in order to match your speculations.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 11, 2018, 04:34:35 PM
Try reading my post carefully: I was talking about the people that might be on the street as Oswald walked away from the TSBD.

Actually the WC did eventually determine what happened in the minutes following the assassination.
You must be calling Whalley, etc a liar. 

IMHO, you lot are twisting like pretzels... misrepresenting, misunderstanding, cherrypicking & splitting hairs in a failed attempt to whittle down the evidence to fit your square pegs into round holes in order to match your speculations.

No, they didn't based on the evidence. They made up a scenario. It is ironic that they could find witnesses when it suited them, but not here. How could LHO leave by the front door and walk 7 blocks and have no one see him?

Was he as invisible as the alleged bag in the alleged SN?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Anthony Clayden on November 11, 2018, 08:20:05 PM
Once away from the TSBD and where people knew him it wasn't so much that Oswald was invisible but unremarkable, more likely people saw but took not notice and therefore didn't remember him.
However he should have been noticed by the TSBD staff when leaving the building.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 12, 2018, 03:37:16 PM
Once away from the TSBD and where people knew him it wasn't so much that Oswald was invisible but unremarkable, more likely people saw but took not notice and therefore didn't remember him.
However he should have been noticed by the TSBD staff when leaving the building.


Numerous witnesses came forward after LHO's picture was plastered all over t.v. and in the newspaper, but no one from the 7 blocks area could be found. Is this just another coincidence? I doubt it.

It was best not to find anyone since it was just a made up story anyway.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 12, 2018, 06:00:44 PM
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.
Mr. BALL. Anything up to 15 minutes, you say?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir..

So now 18 minutes is "anything up to 15 minutes".  Keep trying, Bill.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 12, 2018, 06:31:18 PM
So now 18 minutes is "anything up to 15 minutes".  Keep trying, Bill.

What, sworn testimony gives you a rash or something...?

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 12, 2018, 07:09:19 PM
No, they didn't based on the evidence. They made up a scenario. It is ironic that they could find witnesses when it suited them, but not here. How could LHO leave by the front door and walk 7 blocks and have no one see him?

Was he as invisible as the alleged bag in the alleged SN?

How do you know no one saw him   
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 12, 2018, 07:23:55 PM
No, they didn't based on the evidence. They made up a scenario. It is ironic that they could find witnesses when it suited them, but not here. How could LHO leave by the front door and walk 7 blocks and have no one see him?

Was he as invisible as the alleged bag in the alleged SN?

Andrew*just explained the walk to you in what I see as a kind of 'Common Sense for Dummies 101' fashion

*Edit: Anthony (Clayden)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on November 12, 2018, 07:52:02 PM
Andrew just explained the walk to you in what I see as a kind of 'Common Sense for Dummies 101' fashion

Who is Andrew? ;D
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 12, 2018, 10:36:41 PM
What, sworn testimony gives you a rash or something...?

No,  just think it's funny when you quote testimony that actually refutes the argument you're trying to make.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 12, 2018, 10:38:10 PM
Who is Andrew? ;D

Bill is not good at remembering details.  That's why he thinks Oswald probably did it.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 12, 2018, 11:17:34 PM
I never suggested that the trip sheet was faked.  You're just not very good at this, are you?

BS.  The trip sheet says 12:30 - 12:45.

And what is your evidence for this "Intel rendezvous" that he took this taxi to get to?  Was Earlene Roberts his "Intel rendezvous" then?  The crap you make up doesn't even make any sense.

You are "Richard Smith" in drag, because you follow the same playbook.  Make up a strawman, and then claim that I implied it.  By the way, that's the correct word:  imply, not infer.

And this is your ultimate downfall.  You think making up a bunch of crap that you have no evidence for, and lying about what evidence there is, is somehow superior to an honest assessment of "I don't know".

Proof of what, exactly?

Catch me up: Where did Brian say you suggested the trip sheet was faked?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 12, 2018, 11:39:47 PM
Catch me up: Where did Brian say you suggested the trip sheet was faked?

Catch yourself up.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 13, 2018, 12:18:53 AM
Who is Andrew? ;D

The guy I named after two sleepless nights in a row.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Bill Chapman on November 13, 2018, 12:25:38 AM
Bill is not good at remembering details.  That's why he thinks Oswald probably did it.

Attacking typos is conspiracy-monger lifeblood.
Slip-of-the-tongue terroritory. You poor saps.
I almost feel sorry for you lot.

And try posting after two sleepless nights in a row.

Oh, by the way... I didn't see your response to the point being made. Of course as a chicken xxxx fence-sitter you can avoid having to take a stand.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on November 13, 2018, 03:50:07 AM
... try posting after two sleepless nights in a row.
A drinking problem?
 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 13, 2018, 04:29:42 AM
What, sworn testimony gives you a rash or something...?

Sworn testimony. LOL.

Was the penalty of perjury enforced? Was this testimony exposed to cross-examination?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 13, 2018, 04:31:11 AM
How do you know no one saw him

Because you have failed to cite anything showing that someone did.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 13, 2018, 04:33:24 AM
Andrew just explained the walk to you in what I see as a kind of 'Common Sense for Dummies 101' fashion

You just refuse to accept that there is more evidence for LHO getting a ride out of DP than the made up fantasy that the WC provided us with.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 13, 2018, 06:42:04 PM
Oh, by the way... I didn't see your response to the point being made. Of course as a chicken xxxx fence-sitter you can avoid having to take a stand.

Yes, it's much braver and rational to just "take a stand" that you cannot actually justify with anything besides namecalling.

And what point was being made by Andrew (whoever that is)?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 07:22:59 PM
So put the previous trip ending around 12.30, then went on to say how he estimated times and wrote them down in 15 minute blocks so timings could be out by 10 or 15 minutes. Can't see where he says it was definitely 12.30.

Dear Mr Turner..( rhymes with handicapped learner) "Around 12:30" is not the same as; around 12:25, or !2:35....."Around 12:30" covers a time period of a couple of minutes before, or after 12:30.

Whaley knew the time as about 12:30....Which means it could have been anywhere between 12:27 and 12:33.... And even a slow learner who has studied the case knows that the official government approved tale has the arch villain Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald ( Hisss,  Booo) on the sixth floor, preparing to murder the President or encountering DPD officer Marrion Baker and answering his question of..."What are you doing here?" in that time period.    It is absolutely impossible for Lee Oswald to have been answering Baker's question and walking along toward Whaley's cab while dressed in BLUE workman's clothing.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 07:49:34 PM
Dear Mr Turner..( rhymes with handicapped learner)

You seem to be I full insult mode at the moment Walt. Very unbecoming.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 08:47:16 PM
You seem to be I full insult mode at the moment Walt. Very unbecoming.

That's a very poor excuse for a rebuttal.....Can you present evidence that Lee Oswald possessed BLUE workman's clothing?   Or more to the point of this debate....Can you explain how LBJ's Blue Ribbon cover up committee arrived at the conclusion that Lee Oswald departed Mc watter's bus at 12:44 then walked five blocks to the Taxi stand at the greyhound bus depot and arrived at about 12:30.... Which is the time that Whaley said the man in the BLUE workman's uniform approached his taxi.  Perhaps you believe that Lee Harrrrrvey Osssssswald was walking backwards and changing his clothes as he walked back in time.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 08:57:07 PM
That's a very poor excuse for a rebuttal.....

That's obviously because it wasn't a rebuttal.

Quote
Can you present evidence that Lee Oswald possessed BLUE workman's clothing?   Or more to the point of this debate....Can you explain how LBJ's Blue Ribbon cover up committee arrived at the conclusion that Lee Oswald departed Mc watter's bus at 12:44 then walked five blocks to the Taxi stand at the greyhound bus depot and arrived at about 12:30.... Which is the time that Whaley said the man in the BLUE workman's uniform approached his taxi.  Perhaps you believe that Lee Harrrrrvey Osssssswald was walking backwards and changing his clothes as he walked back in time.

My post was about whether Whaley stated he definitely picked up LHO at 12.30. In the following interview he says it could have been anytime between 12.15 and 12.45.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 09:07:56 PM
That's obviously because it wasn't a rebuttal.

My post was about whether Whaley stated he definitely picked up LHO at 12.30. In the following interview he says it could have been anytime between 12.15 and 12.45.


 In the following interview he says it could have been anytime between 12.15 and 12.45.

OK...But LBJ's Blue Ribbon Cover up Committee said that Lee departed Mc Watter's bus at 12:44.....and he was wearing a dirty brown shirt with a hole in the sleeve ....   Can you explain how he could have arrived at the Taxi stand about one minute later at 12:45 and dressed in BLUE workman's clothing??? 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 09:10:22 PM
In the following interview he says it could have been anytime between 12.15 and 12.45.

OK...But LBJ's Blue Ribbon Cover up Committee said that Lee departed Mc Watter's bus at 12:44.....and he was wearing a dirty brown shirt with a hole in the sleeve ....   Can you explain how he could have arrived at the Taxi stand about one minute later at 12:45 and dressed in BLUE workman's clothing???

I'm not attempting to, but am addressing the claim that Whaley stated definitely picked up LHO at 12.30pm. Would you say that claim is inaccurate?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 13, 2018, 09:49:42 PM
My post was about whether Whaley stated he definitely picked up LHO at 12.30. In the following interview he says it could have been anytime between 12.15 and 12.45.

Since when does 12:48 constitute anytime between 12:15 and 12:45?

Also that interview was broadcast almost a year after the events.

He also says in that interview that his passenger wore gray work clothes, a brown shirt with a silver stripe, and a work jacket.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 09:54:03 PM
Since when does 12:48 constitute anytime between 12:15 and 12:45?

It doesn't. I haven't claimed it was 12.48, only that he didn't definitely state it was 12.30.

Quote
Also that interview was broadcast almost a year after the events.

Before this interview did he state it was definitely 12.30pm?

Quote
He also says in that interview that his passenger wore gray work clothes, a brown shirt with a silver stripe, and a work jacket.

Yes he did.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 09:59:15 PM
I'm not attempting to, but am addressing the claim that Whaley stated definitely picked up LHO at 12.30pm. Would you say that claim is inaccurate?

 "but am addressing the claim that Whaley stated definitely picked up LHO at 12.30pm. Would you say that claim is inaccurate?"

You seem to be a bit confused Mr Turner....Do you recall posting this...

"So put the previous trip ending around 12.30, then went on to say how he estimated times and wrote them down in 15 minute blocks so timings could be out by 10 or 15 minutes. Can't see where he says it was definitely 12.30."

Previously you were arguing that Whaley stated that "ABOUT 12:30"  he picked up a passenger at the Greyhound bus depot....And I agreed that Whaley was referring to a period of time of about 12:30 or between 12:27, and 12:33.   Why do you insist that the time was exactly 12:30? 

I could not say the time of 12:30 was inaccurate......  I doubt that even Whaley knew EXACTLY the time that the man in the BLUE work clothes approached his cab and asked for transportation.  The point is.....LBJ's  Special Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee  said that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Ossssswald departed from Mc Watters bus 14 minutes AFTER the man in the BLUE clothing got into Whaley's Taxi.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 13, 2018, 10:02:52 PM
It doesn't. I haven't claimed it was 12.48, only that he didn't definitely state it was 12.30.

He did in his affidavit.

(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/med_res_d/)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 10:05:48 PM
"but am addressing the claim that Whaley stated definitely picked up LHO at 12.30pm. Would you say that claim is inaccurate?"

You seem to be a bit confused Mr Turner....Do you recall posting this...

"So put the previous trip ending around 12.30, then went on to say how he estimated times and wrote them down in 15 minute blocks so timings could be out by 10 or 15 minutes. Can't see where he says it was definitely 12.30."

Previously you were arguing that Whaley stated that "ABOUT 12:30"  he picked up a passenger at the Greyhound bus depot....And I agreed that Whaley was referring to a period of time of about 12:30 or between 12:27, and 12:33.   Why do you insist that the time was exactly 12:30? 

I could not say the time of 12:30 was inaccurate......  I doubt that even Whaley knew EXACTLY the time that the man in the BLUE work clothes approached his cab and asked for transportation.  The point is.....LBJ's  Special Blue Ribbon Cover Up Committee  said that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Ossssswald departed from Mc Watters bus 14 minutes AFTER the man in the BLUE clothing got into Whaley's Taxi.

'Tis you who is confused Walt. You didn't make the claim that I am discussing, Ray Mitchum did. Take a look at the posts just before mine that you have quoted
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 10:28:22 PM
'Tis you who is confused Walt. You didn't make the claim that I am discussing, Ray Mitchum did. Take a look at the posts just before mine that you have quoted

The point is:....   Whaley's passenger could NOT have been Lee Oswald..... Because according to LBJ's Blue Ribbon Cover Up committee, Lee didn't depart Mc watter's bus until 12:44......   
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 13, 2018, 10:54:59 PM
The point is:....   Whaley's passenger could NOT have been Lee Oswald..... Because according to LBJ's Blue Ribbon Cover Up committee, Lee didn't depart Mc watter's bus until 12:44......

That's a different point.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on November 13, 2018, 11:59:48 PM

That's a different point.

The crux of the debate is:....   Did Lee Oswald enter Whaley's cab at the Greyhound Bus Depot at about 12:30  on 11/22/63?

Well Mr Turner....   What is your answer? 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 14, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
The crux of the debate is:....   Did Lee Oswald enter Whaley's cab at the Greyhound Bus Depot at about 12:30  on 11/22/63?

Well Mr Turner....   What is your answer?

Do you want me to guess? It may have been 12.30 on the dot, in which case LHO couldn't have shot JFK. It may have been much later, in which case it doesn't rule him out of shooting JFK. I don't think the evidence is such that it can be said for certain when it was.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Nicholas Turner on November 14, 2018, 03:12:42 AM
He did in his affidavit.

(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/med_res_d/)

Thanks.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 14, 2018, 04:37:22 AM
Do you want me to guess? It may have been 12.30 on the dot, in which case LHO couldn't have shot JFK. It may have been much later, in which case it doesn't rule him out of shooting JFK. I don't think the evidence is such that it can be said for certain when it was.

The evidence, something you continually ignore, shows that he was never in Whaley's cab.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Richard Marks on November 14, 2018, 03:32:38 PM
Not trying to defend WC, but Oswald could easily have walked away unnoticed. It was total mayhem immediately after the shots were fired. I was on the corner of Main and Houston when it happened. People were totally confused and were going every which way. A number of people, including myself, immediately left the area. (I walked back down Houston Street to the Dallas Morning News building where I had earlier gone to apply for a part-time job.)

Of course, no one could know what was going through Oswald's mind, but he probably wasn't thinking clearly. That may account for him getting on the bus. If he was trying to get to his rooming house in Oak Cliff, he had no choice but to get on the bus headed back toward Dealey Plaza. The "Marsalis" bus would have turned left (south) at Houston Street then across the Houston Street viaduct to Oak Cliff. The traffic jam on Elm Street was all the prevented his getaway on the bus.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on November 14, 2018, 05:22:56 PM
Are you the same Richard Marks who worked at the Republic National Bank?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 14, 2018, 06:53:40 PM
Not trying to defend WC, but Oswald could easily have walked away unnoticed. It was total mayhem immediately after the shots were fired. I was on the corner of Main and Houston when it happened. People were totally confused and were going every which way. A number of people, including myself, immediately left the area. (I walked back down Houston Street to the Dallas Morning News building where I had earlier gone to apply for a part-time job.)

Of course, no one could know what was going through Oswald's mind, but he probably wasn't thinking clearly. That may account for him getting on the bus. If he was trying to get to his rooming house in Oak Cliff, he had no choice but to get on the bus headed back toward Dealey Plaza. The "Marsalis" bus would have turned left (south) at Houston Street then across the Houston Street viaduct to Oak Cliff. The traffic jam on Elm Street was all the prevented his getaway on the bus.

Maybe he could have, but that still doesn't explain the lack of evidence for the WC's claim of what he did to get to his roominghouse.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 15, 2018, 03:10:47 PM
The LNers have still not provided any evidence to support the WC's claim in the OP.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 16, 2018, 04:32:23 PM
The LNers have utterly failed to provide supporting evidence for the WC's claim that LHO walked 7 blocks and entered Cecil Mcwatters' bus only to depart shortly thereafter to get into William Whaley's cab.There is a reason for this  -- there is none to provide.

This means that the WC gave us a false claim (i.e. they lied).
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 21, 2018, 10:38:55 PM
So it is settled. There is NO supporting evidence for the WC's claim regarding LHO leaving the TSBD or walking 7 blocks to catch a bus. What else did they totally make up?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Mark Ulrik on November 22, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
So it is settled. There is NO supporting evidence for the WC's claim regarding LHO leaving the TSBD or walking 7 blocks to catch a bus. What else did they totally make up?

What are you implying, Counselor? What you seem to be implying is that, unless someone reported seeing your client leave the building, he must still be in there, somewhere, 55 years later. But you don't really believe that, do you, Counselor?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Zeon Mason on November 22, 2018, 04:02:10 PM
 1: Why no fingerprints of Oswald or McWatters on the bus transfer ticket? Its paper, and it was gripped by thumb and forefinger most likely.

2. Oswald had to have doubletimed during some part of the distance after leaving McWatters bus, if he ever was on it, because otherwise, he cannot enter his boarding room until about 1:03 at the earliest.

Where did Oswald most likely "doubletime" ie: jog? Not likely after having left Wally Taxi, because the whole point supposedly of having bypassed his house by 5 blocks was concern about being followed or if someone might be actualy at his boarding room. So Oswald probably would have approached the house cautiously, not running.

So that leaves the 4 block route from McWatters to Wally Taxi, where Oswald has to doubletime cutting the time to about 2 minutes to travel 4 blocks, so that he arrives at Wally Taxi approx 12:45, and then Wally drops Oswald off 9 min later at 12:54, allowing 5 minutes to walk 5 blocks so Oswald can enter boarding house approx 1:00pm.


Even with this hypothetical doubletime, however, Oswald still is not exiting uniil 1:03 and since he must reach 10th and Patton by 12:12pm, he only has really about 9 minutes to get there. He therefore must have doubletimed part of the way.


Why would Oswald be doubletiming along a sidewalk, carrying a pistol, if he just wanted to go see a movie?


Its even questionable if Oswald was ever intending to go to the Texas theater in the 1st place, because he deviated from his southern route to go EAST and this BEFORE Tippit ever starts following him in a car. This is per the WC own diagram of the route:


(https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/e769e063e3.jpg)

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 22, 2018, 04:21:19 PM
What are you implying, Counselor? What you seem to be implying is that, unless someone reported seeing your client leave the building, he must still be in there, somewhere, 55 years later. But you don't really believe that, do you, Counselor?

I think that it is clear and I am not implying, but rather stating -- the WC made up claims regarding LHO's actions following the assassination. If you disagree then cite some supporting evidence for their claims. No other LNer has.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 22, 2018, 04:23:27 PM
1: Why no fingerprints of Oswald or McWatters on the bus transfer ticket? Its paper, and it was gripped by thumb and forefinger most likely.

2. Oswald had to have doubletimed during some part of the distance after leaving McWatters bus, if he ever was on it, because otherwise, he cannot enter his boarding room until about 1:03 at the earliest.

Where did Oswald most likely "doubletime" ie: jog? Not likely after having left Wally Taxi, because the whole point supposedly of having bypassed his house by 5 blocks was concern about being followed or if someone might be actualy at his boarding room. So Oswald probably would have approached the house cautiously, not running.

So that leaves the 4 block route from McWatters to Wally Taxi, where Oswald has to doubletime cutting the time to about 2 minutes to travel 4 blocks, so that he arrives at Wally Taxi approx 12:45, and then Wally drops Oswald off 9 min later at 12:54, allowing 5 minutes to walk 5 blocks so Oswald can enter boarding house approx 1:00pm.


Even with this hypothetical doubletime, however, Oswald still is not exiting uniil 1:03 and since he must reach 10th and Patton by 12:12pm, he only has really about 9 minutes to get there. He therefore must have doubletimed part of the way.


Why would Oswald be doubletiming along a sidewalk, carrying a pistol, if he just wanted to go see a movie?


Its even questionable if Oswald was ever intending to go to the Texas theater in the 1st place, because he deviated from his southern route to go EAST and this BEFORE Tippit ever starts following him in a car. This is per the WC own diagram of the route:


(https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/e769e063e3.jpg)

Good questions and points Zeon.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Paul May on November 23, 2018, 01:24:52 AM
Counselor?  The man is a documented internet identity chief and a cashier in a Publix supermarket. 
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on November 26, 2018, 06:27:37 PM
This thread is proof that the official narrative was a made up story. No evidence was put forth to support the WC's claims.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 18, 2019, 06:46:18 PM
Months later...still no valid answer to the OP question. 🤔
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 20, 2019, 04:42:57 AM
Months later...still no valid answer to the OP question. 🤔

🔝
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on March 04, 2019, 03:49:37 AM
It is highly unlikely, and given the *multiple* witnesses that saw LHO enter an automobile, it is apparent that the WC's claim that he took a cab and bus to the roominghouse is false and sunk.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Zeon Mason on March 05, 2019, 12:26:54 AM
Imo, the whole McWatters episode is with some other man, and somebody convinced McWatters that if must have been Oswald, when the "ticket" was presented with a punch mark. (but no fingerprints of either Oswald or McWatters!?)

They wanted to make it seem as though Oswald was "in a hurry" and anxious, impatient, desperate to return to his boarding ASAP.

But Whaley contradicts that narrative, by having observed that Oswald just appeared to be walking normally and even offered the cab to a woman 1st.

Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 01:08:42 AM
Imo, the whole McWatters episode is with some other man, and somebody convinced McWatters that if must have been Oswald, when the "ticket" was presented with a punch mark. (but no fingerprints of either Oswald or McWatters!?)

They wanted to make it seem as though Oswald was "in a hurry" and anxious, impatient, desperate to return to his boarding ASAP.

But Whaley contradicts that narrative, by having observed that Oswald just appeared to be walking normally and even offered the cab to a woman 1st.

Rob.....Have you forgot that a woman exited Mc Watter's bus and she received a transfer.....  What happened to that transfer??   Do we know that she didn't give the transfer to the FBI?   We know that passengers getting on the train were screened because the FBI grabbed Robert Croft at Denver when he arrived there from Dallas.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 05, 2019, 10:51:28 PM
Rob.....Have you forgot that a woman exited Mc Watter's bus and she received a transfer.....  What happened to that transfer??   Do we know that she didn't give the transfer to the FBI?   We know that passengers getting on the train were screened because the FBI grabbed Robert Croft at Denver when he arrived there from Dallas.

Interesting question.  Don't know if she actually used her transfer or not, but it would have been interesting to compare it with the one they allegedly found in Oswald's pocket hours after his arrest.  Did it have McWatters' "distinctive" punch mark on it?  What if CE 381 was her bus transfer?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on March 05, 2019, 11:28:56 PM
Imo, the whole McWatters episode is with some other man, and somebody convinced McWatters that if must have been Oswald, when the "ticket" was presented with a punch mark. (but no fingerprints of either Oswald or McWatters!?)

They wanted to make it seem as though Oswald was "in a hurry" and anxious, impatient, desperate to return to his boarding ASAP.

But Whaley contradicts that narrative, by having observed that Oswald just appeared to be walking normally and even offered the cab to a woman 1st.

McWatters initially said that it was LHO, but quickly recanted. He wouldn't identify LHO as the man on his bus before the WC.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Rob Caprio on March 05, 2019, 11:36:13 PM
Interesting question.  Don't know if she actually used her transfer or not, but it would have been interesting to compare it with the one they allegedly found in Oswald's pocket hours after his arrest.  Did it have McWatters' "distinctive" punch mark on it?  What if CE 381 was her bus transfer?

It is an interesting question. Also, Mcwatters said he gave a transfer to a man as well and since LHO was not on his bus we have to wonder who this was. We know it wasn't Milton Jones because of this.

Mr. BALL - Were you later called down to the--did the teenage boy ask for any transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 05, 2019, 11:43:38 PM
Interesting question.  Don't know if she actually used her transfer or not, but it would have been interesting to compare it with the one they allegedly found in Oswald's pocket hours after his arrest.  Did it have McWatters' "distinctive" punch mark on it?  What if CE 381 was her bus transfer?

 What if CE 381 was her bus transfer?

That was what I was hinting....
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Brent Moldenhauer on March 06, 2019, 04:48:36 PM
Can you prove that Bledsoe knew LHO by sight? Otherwise her word is worthless.

Bledsoe said Oswald got on the bus looking like a maniac but not one other person someone that looked like a maniac. She also described Oswalds shirt as being in a condition it wasnt in until after his arrest.

A read of McWatters testimony suggests he thought it was the young lad and not Oswald.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 06, 2019, 09:55:58 PM
Bledsoe said Oswald got on the bus looking like a maniac but not one other person someone that looked like a maniac.

No one else was familiar with Oswald.

Quote
She also described Oswalds shirt as being in a condition it wasnt in until after his arrest.

Really? How so? What condition of the shirt did she describe that wasn't present at the time of the arrest?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 10:14:00 PM
No one else was familiar with Oswald.

Really? How so? What condition of the shirt did she describe that wasn't present at the time of the arrest?

A BUTTON DOWN COLLAR......
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 10:23:15 PM
A BUTTON DOWN COLLAR......

Bledsoe described a button down collar.  When?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 10:37:35 PM
Bledsoe described a button down collar.  When?

Lee was wearing a reddish brown shirt with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR at the TSBD that morning....The Shirt that he was wearing when he was dragged from the theater did NOT have a button down collar.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 10:49:31 PM
Tim asked what condition of the shirt did Bledsoe describe that wasn't present at the time of the arrest, and you responded button-down collar.  When did Bledsoe describe a button down collar?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 10:57:56 PM
Tim asked what condition of the shirt did Bledsoe describe that wasn't present at the time of the arrest, and you responded button-down collar.  When did Bledsoe describe a button down collar?

It was an ideal moment to point out a glaring difference between the shirt that Lee wore at the TSBD that morning and the shirt he was wearing when he was dragged from the theater....  The liars have tried to sell the lie that Lee Oswald was guilty because a tuft of fibers from his arrest shirt were found on the butt plate of the rifle. 

The liars failed to take into account that Lee had changed his shirt at the rooming house.....so the fibers should have matched that reddish brown shirt with the BUTTON DOWN Collar, that the police ( Potts) found in Lee's dresser drawer.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:05:18 PM
It was an ideal moment to point out a glaring difference between the shirt that Lee wore at the TSBD that morning and the shirt he was wearing when he was dragged from the theater....

That's Walt-speak for "I made something up and got caught".

You don't know what shirt Oswald was wearing that morning either.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
That's Walt-speak for "I made something up and got caught".

You don't know what shirt Oswald was wearing that morning either.

Lee told the interrogators that he went to his room and changed his clothes because they were dirty ( Mrs Bledsoe said his clothes were ragged and dirty) Lee described the shirt as being a reddish brown color with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.....and the trousers were dark gray.   The shirt that Lee was wearing at the theater was a tawny gray color with no hole in the elbow and no BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.   Detective Potts ( see his inventory) said the shirt that he found in the dresser drawer was reddish brown with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:31:15 PM
Lee told the interrogators that he went to his room and changed his clothes because they were dirty ( Mrs Bledsoe said his clothes were ragged and dirty) Lee described the shirt as being a reddish brown color with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR

Oh, I guess it must be true then.  After all, Bledsoe also described a button down collar.  Oh wait.....

 ::)

Quote
The shirt that Lee was wearing at the theater was a tawny gray color with no hole in the elbow and no BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.

(https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/305139/content/arcmedia/media/images/33/34/33-3304a.gif)
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 06, 2019, 11:48:59 PM
Oh, I guess it must be true then.  After all, Bledsoe also described a button down collar.  Oh wait.....

 ::)

(https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/305139/content/arcmedia/media/images/33/34/33-3304a.gif)

AaaaHaaa, Ha, Ha, Hee,hee, hee,hee.....  Thank you Johnny .... Now then...would you please tell the folks WHEN that shirt sleeve became torn?....It wasn't torn when he was brought into the police station and held up his hand cuffed hands which shows the elbow ......
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 06, 2019, 11:56:06 PM
AaaaHaaa, Ha, Ha, Hee,hee, hee,hee.....  Thank you Johnny .... Now then...would you please tell the folks WHEN that shirt sleeve became torn?....It wasn't torn when he was brought into the police station and held up his hand cuffed hands which shows the elbow ......

Yes it was.

But I'm still laughing about "tawny gray color".
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2019, 12:29:11 AM
Yes it was.

But I'm still laughing about "tawny gray color".

Have you seen the color photos of Lee being dragged from the theater?
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 07, 2019, 03:48:07 PM
Have you seen the color photos of Lee being dragged from the theater?

You mean the one that's tinted blue?  Yes.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Walt Cakebread on March 07, 2019, 03:56:21 PM
You mean the one that's tinted blue?  Yes.
The photo on page 101 of the Killing of a President is not tinted blue.....nor are the photos on pages 154 & 155 of the Search for LHO....
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 07, 2019, 04:58:39 PM
The photo on page 101 of the Killing of a President is not tinted blue.....nor are the photos on pages 154 & 155 of the Search for LHO....

Yes, I remember the conversation, Walt.  You tried to claim that the ticket booth appears blue because it's in the shade and shade makes things appear blue.  That's Walt Fabrication #29.
Title: Re: How Could LHO Walk Seven Blocks Shortly After The Assassination & Not Be Seen?
Post by: Steve Logan on March 07, 2019, 06:08:06 PM
Wally believes he can fool all of the people all of the time.
Unfortunately, for him, he can't.