JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Robin Unger on September 30, 2018, 10:20:15 PM
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Thanks to Chris for this GIF he made, his film was taken from Zapruder's Pedestal.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--pprZaness0/Wg_JD4GR9PI/AAAAAAAAAvI/tIAOICnVnXIIB7R87DG1qASJOSfCCyKjgCLcBGAs/s1600/Car.gif)
This is the Edited version i did of Chris's GIF
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xl49-YJm5to/Wg_LwEsdfPI/AAAAAAAAAvg/TLyNidWDgAMfM1JfE7bP7BhOQ6yhL4YZQCLcBGAs/s1600/Chris%2BDavidson%2BZapruder%2Bre-enactment.gif)
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If Chris is around ... I wonder the type of camera was used, & zoom setting - if any?
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If Chris is around ... I wonder the type of camera was used, & zoom setting - if any?
The Black Dog Man Nook and that wall in general are Clearly visible on this footage taken from the Zapruder Perch. Also, More of the picket fence and the area behind it.
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If Chris is around ... I wonder the type of camera was used, & zoom setting - if any?
Bell/Howell 414
Full Zoom
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Let the math formulas begin. Good luck, everyone, making sense of any of them.
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Bell/Howell 414
Full Zoom
Thanks for replying Chris. Chris do you know if Zapruder used only full zoom from the get go? I seem to remember someone once mentioned he toggled the setting? maybe I imagined it.
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@Royell, true, I have been playing around with a few interesting thing's. I'll post them here when I've finished -- re the wall's end + Shaneyfelt recreation
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A pickup truck driving down the street is a reenactment?
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Thanks to Chris for this GIF he made, his film was taken from Zapruder's Pedestal.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--pprZaness0/Wg_JD4GR9PI/AAAAAAAAAvI/tIAOICnVnXIIB7R87DG1qASJOSfCCyKjgCLcBGAs/s1600/Car.gif)
This is the Edited version i did of Chris's GIF
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xl49-YJm5to/Wg_LwEsdfPI/AAAAAAAAAvg/TLyNidWDgAMfM1JfE7bP7BhOQ6yhL4YZQCLcBGAs/s1600/Chris%2BDavidson%2BZapruder%2Bre-enactment.gif)
I wonder how static in position BDM was.
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Thanks for replying Chris. Chris do you know if Zapruder used only full zoom from the get go? I seem to remember someone once mentioned he toggled the setting? maybe I imagined it.
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@Royell, true, I have been playing around with a few interesting thing's. I'll post them here when I've finished -- re the wall's end + Shaneyfelt recreation
I will be looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Your previous work exposing the shortcomings of the Shaneyfelt recreation were groundbreaking. The Black Dog Man Nook along with The Wall being totally MIA on the Z Film will Not go away.
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What Chris Davidson did was NOT ground breaking but a joke. The Shaneyfelt recreation - the diorama that was created - was a simple mistake of measurements and nothing more. Yet, Davidson has gone on and on ad nauseum with ridiculous math formulas to try to prove that the Z film was altered in some way. It wasn't. His silly theory is so silly that on another site, they made an hilarious parody of it. Look it up.
Not everything about this case is a big, grand conspiracy. Davidson's "67% of the frames removed" theory is right up there with the stolen and altered body, the double Oswald with double Moms, and all of the other goofy theories.
If there's any proof that the film(s) are legit, all you have to do is watch this:
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What Chris Davidson did was NOT ground breaking but a joke. The Shaneyfelt recreation - the diorama that was created - was a simple mistake of measurements and nothing more. Yet, Davidson has gone on and on ad nauseum with ridiculous math formulas to try to prove that the Z film was altered in some way. It wasn't. His silly theory is so silly that on another site, they made an hilarious parody of it. Look it up.
Not everything about this case is a big, grand conspiracy. Davidson's "67% of the frames removed" theory is right up there with the stolen and altered body, the double Oswald with double Moms, and all of the other goofy theories.
If there's any proof that the film(s) are legit, all you have to do is watch this:
Everytime MW posts this sync video, I respond with my own version and ask the question " How is it possible that (Jackie with her elbow planted on the trunk deck and her rear end up in the air) she can sit down into the limo backseat in 1/3 of a second.
Please show us a recreation of Jackie's extraordinary feat.
This also happens to be at a point where the Nix film is cut. Coincidence!!! I think not.
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/ZNix1.gif)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CFdpSs8Bt4f-GVJOCOl2wDXdpu-uNjQX/view?usp=sharing
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Thanks for replying Chris. Chris do you know if Zapruder used only full zoom from the get go? I seem to remember someone once mentioned he toggled the setting? maybe I imagined it.
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@Royell, true, I have been playing around with a few interesting thing's. I'll post them here when I've finished -- re the wall's end + Shaneyfelt recreation
Full zoom all the way through, based on the extant Zfilm.
I'm not saying I necessarily believe that.
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Here's the basis for Davidson's "66% of the frames removed" -
(http://www.kavaint.com/feature/2018/04/The-Sixth-Floor-Museum-Texas-School-Book-Depository-Travel.jpg)
Above is the diorama that the FBI made. The car is further down than we know where it was. But according to Davidson, the FBI was sinister with this model. Because they had the car further down, they then had to remove frames from the Z film in order to make everything sync up.
Really?
So now I ask Davidson - watch the Muchmore film:
Now, let's say that the shots really happened further down like Davidson believes. How can a completely different film of the same event, and from the opposite angle, show that old man standing on the steps looking *upward* toward Elm reacting to the head shot that supposedly took place further down the street?
If Davidson is right, you'd think the old man was looking to the left or downward toward the car when the head shot hits. But he's not - he's looking up toward Elm when the shot hits.
You simply cannot seriously think that this type of physical action can be faked in a home movie like this.
Now Davidson is also saying, "Well, the frames were removed and the proof of that is Jackie's movements are weird."
They look normal to me, Chris. You're simply seeing (imagining) things.
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24 remaining Muchmore frames after the Z313 headshot equates to approx Z337. Interesting that Muchmore stops filming after a total of approx 3.6 seconds.
When does the Muchmore film get cut, well just before this point:
I guess these people just had a delayed reaction to Z313. Not
Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Altgens_1.gif)
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Whether on wide angle, normal or telephoto, good luck reproducing this anomaly.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7845/46496376074_9e4f4ddf72_o.jpg)
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Using Math, can you figure out the problem between Myers multi film sync and Itek's input on the Nix film?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7885/47220058631_8b53c0e2c6_o.jpg)
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Here's the basis for Davidson's "66% of the frames removed" -
Above is the diorama that the FBI made. The car is further down than we know where it was. But according to Davidson, the FBI was sinister with this model. Because they had the car further down, they then had to remove frames from the Z film in order to make everything sync up.
Actually, it all started with this:
The limo traveling 2.24(public version CE884) or 3.74mph(CE884 version on final WC plat may1964) below.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/38850880920_161a77159a_o.png)
The diorama provided a distance for us.
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Do you think there was another camera man involved?
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Pedestal-Cameraman.gif)
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Wonder what would happen if I compared similar LOS's with the extant Zfilm Stemmons sign splice?
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/StemmonsSign-Poles.gif)
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Actually, it all started with this:
The limo traveling 2.24(public version CE884) or 3.74mph(CE884 version on final WC plat may1964) below.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/38850880920_161a77159a_o.png)
The diorama provided a distance for us.
When you create speed and distance reductions, you have to adjust frame counts too:
One reason why the WC created different versions of CE884, with the same physical locations (z161/168 - z166/171) applied to different frame numbers.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7848/46314853485_c97f6c3291_o.jpg)
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The question surrounding the speed of the JFK Limo is also tied into that same Limo: (1) Not being filmed turning onto Elm St and (2) Suddenly Popping into the Z film already traveling down Elm St. Both Zapruder and Sitzman said they could see the Limo traveling down Houston St and turning onto Elm St from their Elevated position standing atop the Zapurder Perch. The Current Z Film is a Sham.
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When you create speed and distance reductions, you have to adjust frame counts too:
One reason why the WC created different versions of CE884, with the same physical locations (z161/168 - z166/171) applied to different frame numbers.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7848/46314853485_c97f6c3291_o.jpg)
The adjustments were not reflective of the limo traveling at those speeds (2.24/3.734) at zframes (z161/168 - z166/171), they are a reflection of the reduction in speed applied to the limo.
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The diorama along with other supplied WC documents provides a distance to work with:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7877/46316653505_d2636fe430_o.jpg)
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Remember, it's not how fast the limo was moving, it's what the limo's speed was reduced to in terms of frame count. Such as the following:
zframe 168-z171 was entered as a distance of .9ft traveled.
Extend that over 1 second of time:
18.3/3 = 6.1 x .9ft = 5.49ft traveled
30ft distance via the diorama / 5.49ft per sec = 5.464sec duration
5.464sec x 18.3frames per sec = 100 frames
while:
zframe161-166 was also entered as a distance of .9ft
Extended over 1 sec:
18.3/5 =3.66 .9ft = 3.294ft traveled
30ft distance via the diorama /3.294ft per sec = 9.107...sec
9.107..sec x 18.3 frames per sec = 166.66... frames
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How might the (z168-z171=3.734mph) reduction appear in other parts of the film, look toward the headshot:
The plat (at 1"=10ft) has the limo at z301 using Moorman's inner left foot through JFK and onto Z = approx 7.2ft traveled onto z313
Using 1 second: 18.3/12 = 1.525 x 7.2ft = 10.98ft per sec / 1.47 = 7.469mph
The average speed (slip up by Shaneyfelt) is referred to as 11.2mph.
What was the average speed reduced by in terms of mph to get to the limo's speed from Z301-z313?
Does that answer ring a bell?
What is the ratio of 7.469/11.2?
What is the ratio of 3.734/11.2?
Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7906/46508628064_e3e69af467_o.png)
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Remember, it's not how fast the limo was moving, it's what the limo's speed was reduced to in terms of frame count. Such as the following:
zframe 168-z171 was entered as a distance of .9ft traveled.
Extend that over 1 second of time:
18.3/3 = 6.1 x .9ft = 5.49ft traveled
30ft distance via the diorama / 5.49ft per sec = 5.464sec duration
5.464sec x 18.3frames per sec = 100 frames
A 100 frame adjustment?
Governor CONNALLY. As we looked at them this morning, and as you related the numbers to me, it appeared to me that I was hit in the range between 130 or 131, I don't remember precisely, up to 134, in that bracket.
Mr. SPECTER. May I suggest to you that it was 231?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, 231 and 234, then.
Mr. SPECTER. The series under our numbering system starts with a higher number when the car comes around the turn, so when you come out of the sign, which was----
Governor CONNALLY. It was just after we came out of the sign, for whatever that sequence of numbers was, and if it was 200, I correct my testimony. It was 231 to about 234. It was within that range.
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Actually, it all started with this:
The limo traveling 2.24(public version CE884) or 3.74mph(CE884 version on final WC plat may1964) below.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/38850880920_161a77159a_o.png)
The diorama provided a distance for us.
Does this CE884 version reflect a continuation of data previous to z168 and back to Position A where Position A = Zframe# ?
Using the provided WC documentation, this creates a distance of 50.7ft between z168 and Position A.
From z168-z171, the limo speed is .3ft per frame = 3.734mph =5.49ft per sec
169frames x .3ft per frame = 50.7ft
Was the limo traveling 3.734 mph for that 50.7ft?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7810/46321382305_81f7b95abe_o.jpg)
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Actually, it all started with this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/38850880920_161a77159a_o.png)
What does the reduction in limo speed look like from z168-z186(red box entries).
I like converting to seconds of time:
18.3/18 = 1.01666... x 21.6ft(distanced traveled z168-z186) = 21.96ft per sec/1.47(1mph) = 14.938mph
14.938mph - 3.734mph = 11.2mph = Shaneyfelt average
14.938/2 = 7.469mph = limo speed from z301-z313
Notice a theme reoccurring throughout.
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And every time I post something that rebut's Davidson's illogical "67% of the frames were removed from the Z film" theory, he'll either throw up more math fractions and formulas.
** Answer my question, Chris **
It's a simple matter:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4YWzRBRZ3kw/XHqwws4EhNI/AAAAAAAAFWs/BG92cj6sjY8n7U-STzXdGTZt7xRLBoK7wCLcBGAs/s320/plaza-marks.png)
The photo above shows the view of the old guy when he sees the head shot and panics. You can clearly see his reaction when he realizes what has happened. His reaction takes place in the Muchmore film. Here's the key:
** In the Muchmore film, his line of site toward the limo is UPWARD toward Elm Street. **
Now look at the above. I've put his line of sight with red dots. But according to your logic, the shots took place where the blue dots are, which is why the evil geniuses - according to you - had to remove frames to bring the film up to Z313. There is *NO PROOF* or any testimony anywhere that says ANY of the witnesses heard or saw any shots down where that blue mark is on the above.
So if the final "flurry of shells" as the SS driver described it took place at the Z313, and if the old guy is looking upward toward Elm at that time, how in the world did the conspirators spin the old guy's body around in Muchmore so he's looking upward in the Muchmore film?
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And every time I post something that rebut's Davidson's illogical "67% of the frames were removed from the Z film" theory, he'll either throw up more math fractions and formulas.
** Answer my question, Chris **
It's a simple matter:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4YWzRBRZ3kw/XHqwws4EhNI/AAAAAAAAFWs/BG92cj6sjY8n7U-STzXdGTZt7xRLBoK7wCLcBGAs/s320/plaza-marks.png)
The photo above shows the view of the old guy when he sees the head shot and panics. You can clearly see his reaction when he realizes what has happened. His reaction takes place in the Muchmore film. Here's the key:
** In the Muchmore film, his line of site toward the limo is UPWARD toward Elm Street. **
Now look at the above. I've put his line of sight with red dots. But according to your logic, the shots took place where the blue dots are, which is why the evil geniuses - according to you - had to remove frames to bring the film up to Z313. There is *NO PROOF* or any testimony anywhere that says ANY of the witnesses heard or saw any shots down where that blue mark is on the above.
So if the final "flurry of shells" as the SS driver described it took place at the Z313, and if the old guy is looking upward toward Elm at that time, how in the world did the conspirators spin the old guy's body around in Muchmore so he's looking upward in the Muchmore film?
(1) Which Man specifically are you referencing when you say, "Old Guy"? All 3 guys on The Steps are almost directly facing Elm St. How would 1 of them possibly look "upward Toward Elm"? Do you mean looking Down Elm/East Toward Houston St?
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And every time I post something that rebut's Davidson's illogical "67% of the frames were removed from the Z film" theory, he'll either throw up more math fractions and formulas.
** Answer my question, Chris **
It's a simple matter:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4YWzRBRZ3kw/XHqwws4EhNI/AAAAAAAAFWs/BG92cj6sjY8n7U-STzXdGTZt7xRLBoK7wCLcBGAs/s320/plaza-marks.png)
The photo above shows the view of the old guy when he sees the head shot and panics. You can clearly see his reaction when he realizes what has happened. His reaction takes place in the Muchmore film. Here's the key:
** In the Muchmore film, his line of site toward the limo is UPWARD toward Elm Street. **
Now look at the above. I've put his line of sight with red dots. But according to your logic, the shots took place where the blue dots are, which is why the evil geniuses - according to you - had to remove frames to bring the film up to Z313. There is *NO PROOF* or any testimony anywhere that says ANY of the witnesses heard or saw any shots down where that blue mark is on the above.
So if the final "flurry of shells" as the SS driver described it took place at the Z313, and if the old guy is looking upward toward Elm at that time, how in the world did the conspirators spin the old guy's body around in Muchmore so he's looking upward in the Muchmore film?
When you learn how to interpret the diorama along with the plat, then maybe you can figure out where the SS/FBI determined the last shot to be.
Until then, you just proved the SS/FBI last shot (which is not z313) scenario with your LOS "upward" toward Elm St comment.
btw, the red X is where Altgens is approx standing in the extant Zfilm.
He being the one that said he was how close to a headshot?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7849/40295217493_09998c9b0c_o.png)
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I think you're very confused, Chris. First, your drawing remarkably almost matches mine. I'm assuming, though, that your red X is Altgens? If so, you're wrong about that, Chris. He was up much further than that. He's out of the frame in Muchmore because he was up further on Elm.
Second, Altgens marked himself on CE 354 exactly where he was and can be seen in the Z film. Any serious researcher of this case sees Altgens as he's standing in the exact same position he points himself out (#3) in CE354 as you see him in the Z film. This further negates where you *think* he was in your diagram.
Third, he said he heard no more shots after the head shot. This is accurate and is also accurate from other witnesses. The shots stopped after Z313.
Fourth, Altgens said he was "about 15 feet away" from the head shot, which is more or less about right. If you look at CE354 where he marked himself and then allow the car to move a little bit further down to when Z313 takes place, it's exactly in the same position as the diorama, the Muchmore film, the Z film, and the Nix film. Please don't hold it against Altens though, Chris, if his "15 feet away" quote would ever be inaccurate. It's just an estimate from someone who was where he said he was but didn't go back seconds after it was all over with a measuring tape to get the exact distance.
Fifth, as your blue X marks as well as mine shows, that blue X is roughly where Altgens said he pointed his camera toward and took his final photo showing Jackie up on top of the trunk (or climbing back in rather) with Hill up there too. With no witness at all reporting, including Altgens himself, that no other shots were ever fired this far down the street and all shots ending at Z313, it's impossible for more shots to have occurred like you think they did way down by the blue X.
Sixth, people make mistakes, Chris. All kinds of crazy reports were coming in minutes after the shooting took place. Witnesses have said some pretty goofy stuff in this case. Altgens was obviously where he said he was, but we shouldn't hold him down to being exactly and precisely "...15 feet away." And yes, there was a conspiracy in this case, but just because the FBI agents made a mistake in putting cars on a diorama too far down the street, then realizing their mistake and moving them up to the actual and correct position, doesn't mean something sinister took place.
Seventh, the FBI got it right the second time around with their diorama, Chris. The first time was a simple mistake that they corrected and was not corrected because of some nefarious reason, Chris. The proof is all of the films mentioned above match up perfectly where the final shots at Z313 take place. The old guy - looking upward and facing the Muchmore camera - reacts perfectly to these final shots that took place.
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I think you're very confused, Chris. First, your drawing remarkably almost matches mine. I'm assuming, though, that your red X is Altgens? If so, you're wrong about that, Chris. He was up much further than that. He's out of the frame in Muchmore because he was up further on Elm.
Second, Altgens marked himself on CE 354 exactly where he was and can be seen in the Z film. Any serious researcher of this case sees Altgens as he's standing in the exact same position he points himself out (#3) in CE354 as you see him in the Z film. This further negates where you *think* he was in your diagram.
Third, he said he heard no more shots after the head shot. This is accurate and is also accurate from other witnesses. The shots stopped after Z313.
Fourth, Altgens said he was "about 15 feet away" from the head shot, which is more or less about right. If you look at CE354 where he marked himself and then allow the car to move a little bit further down to when Z313 takes place, it's exactly in the same position as the diorama, the Muchmore film, the Z film, and the Nix film. Please don't hold it against Altens though, Chris, if his "15 feet away" quote would ever be inaccurate. It's just an estimate from someone who was where he said he was but didn't go back seconds after it was all over with a measuring tape to get the exact distance.
Fifth, as your blue X marks as well as mine shows, that blue X is roughly where Altgens said he pointed his camera toward and took his final photo showing Jackie up on top of the trunk (or climbing back in rather) with Hill up there too. With no witness at all reporting, including Altgens himself, that no other shots were ever fired this far down the street and all shots ending at Z313, it's impossible for more shots to have occurred like you think they did way down by the blue X.
Sixth, people make mistakes, Chris. All kinds of crazy reports were coming in minutes after the shooting took place. Witnesses have said some pretty goofy stuff in this case. Altgens was obviously where he said he was, but we shouldn't hold him down to being exactly and precisely "...15 feet away." And yes, there was a conspiracy in this case, but just because the FBI agents made a mistake in putting cars on a diorama too far down the street, then realizing their mistake and moving them up to the actual and correct position, doesn't mean something sinister took place.
Seventh, the FBI got it right the second time around with their diorama, Chris. The first time was a simple mistake that they corrected and was not corrected because of some nefarious reason, Chris. The proof is all of the films mentioned above match up perfectly where the final shots at Z313 take place. The old guy - looking upward and facing the Muchmore camera - reacts perfectly to these final shots that took place.
When you say Altgens was "UP Much further than that", I assume you mean further East Up Elm toward Houston St. I disagree with the You and the generally accepted physical position of Altgens due to where we see the Hargis Motorcycle Stopped on Elm after the assassination. Officer Hargis Stopped and got off his motorcycle after coasting several feet West on Elm St immediately following the Kill Shot. Altgens was standing to the West of the Hargis cycle/toward the Triple Underpass. I believe the Red X is generally correct based on the Bell Film clearly showing where on Elm the Hargis Motorcycle was Stopped. Altgens was standing West of that cycle. This Altgens position is also corroborated by the Couch Film. Couch shows Altgens walking East along the sidewalk approaching/passing the Newman Family as he heads Toward the light pole that Officer Hargis is simultaneously leaving. ( The Hargis motorcycle being Behind Altgens as he moves down the sidewalk). The Couch Film also gives us a general idea as to where on the South side of Elm that Altgens was standing.
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I think you're very confused, Chris. First, your drawing remarkably almost matches mine. I'm assuming, though, that your red X is Altgens? If so, you're wrong about that, Chris. He was up much further than that. He's out of the frame in Muchmore because he was up further on Elm.
Second, Altgens marked himself on CE 354 exactly where he was and can be seen in the Z film. Any serious researcher of this case sees Altgens as he's standing in the exact same position he points himself out (#3) in CE354 as you see him in the Z film. This further negates where you *think* he was in your diagram.
Third, he said he heard no more shots after the head shot. This is accurate and is also accurate from other witnesses. The shots stopped after Z313.
Fourth, Altgens said he was "about 15 feet away" from the head shot, which is more or less about right. If you look at CE354 where he marked himself and then allow the car to move a little bit further down to when Z313 takes place, it's exactly in the same position as the diorama, the Muchmore film, the Z film, and the Nix film. Please don't hold it against Altens though, Chris, if his "15 feet away" quote would ever be inaccurate. It's just an estimate from someone who was where he said he was but didn't go back seconds after it was all over with a measuring tape to get the exact distance.
Fifth, as your blue X marks as well as mine shows, that blue X is roughly where Altgens said he pointed his camera toward and took his final photo showing Jackie up on top of the trunk (or climbing back in rather) with Hill up there too. With no witness at all reporting, including Altgens himself, that no other shots were ever fired this far down the street and all shots ending at Z313, it's impossible for more shots to have occurred like you think they did way down by the blue X.
Sixth, people make mistakes, Chris. All kinds of crazy reports were coming in minutes after the shooting took place. Witnesses have said some pretty goofy stuff in this case. Altgens was obviously where he said he was, but we shouldn't hold him down to being exactly and precisely "...15 feet away." And yes, there was a conspiracy in this case, but just because the FBI agents made a mistake in putting cars on a diorama too far down the street, then realizing their mistake and moving them up to the actual and correct position, doesn't mean something sinister took place.
Seventh, the FBI got it right the second time around with their diorama, Chris. The first time was a simple mistake that they corrected and was not corrected because of some nefarious reason, Chris. The proof is all of the films mentioned above match up perfectly where the final shots at Z313 take place. The old guy - looking upward and facing the Muchmore camera - reacts perfectly to these final shots that took place.
CE354 for orientation purposes.
I rest my case.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7805/32329283047_9d1695401e_o.png)
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/1963-AERIAL-GOOGLE1-_1.gif)
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OK, Chris, OK. I'm not going to keep quibbling with you over this. As I told you before there's no proof whatsoever that shots were fired after what we see in all of the films and the endpoint seen at Z313. The shots ended at that very point and all you have to do is read Altgens's testimony. He said he wasn't sure about a lot of things but he was definite on that. And no one else has ever claimed any more shots were fired after Z313.
After you've posted literally thousands of posts on the other forum and now here about this dumb ass theory, I don't think you'd ever have it in you anyway to at least reconsider your ridiculous theory is nothing but a crock of BS. You're a laughingstock in this JFK case. Because you have some kind of ulterior motive - what in god's name it is I have no idea but it's probably that you don't trust or "hate" the government - that you simply have lost the ability of self-analysis and to see that not everything in the Kennedy case was a conspiracy.
But you keep right on plugging away, Chris, keep right on believing whatever it is you want to believe.
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OK, Chris, OK. I'm not going to keep quibbling with you over this. As I told you before there's no proof whatsoever that shots were fired after what we see in all of the films and the endpoint seen at Z313. The shots ended at that very point and all you have to do is read Altgens's testimony. He said he wasn't sure about a lot of things but he was definite on that. And no one else has ever claimed any more shots were fired after Z313.
After you've posted literally thousands of posts on the other forum and now here about this dumb ass theory, I don't think you'd ever have it in you anyway to at least reconsider your ridiculous theory is nothing but a crock of BS. You're a laughingstock in this JFK case. Because you have some kind of ulterior motive - what in god's name it is I have no idea but it's probably that you don't trust or "hate" the government - that you simply have lost the ability of self-analysis and to see that not everything in the Kennedy case was a conspiracy.
But you keep right on plugging away, Chris, keep right on believing whatever it is you want to believe.
Let me translate this for others to enjoy:
You didn't have a clue where Altgens was standing. You just realized you didn't have a clue and/or you still don't realize.
If you don't know where Altgens was standing, how could you possibly understand any of his testimony?
Look in the mirror and start laughing at yourself.
That would be a much more constructive use of your time rather than making a fool of yourself trying to figure out a simple question about Altgen's physical location on Elm St.
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Once again, Chris, you're quibbling about this, trying to prove I'm wrong. Don't quibble, Chris.
Stick to the case, Chris, and answer the simple question - James Altgens said no more shots were fired after the head shot, which is indicated in Z313 and all of the other films.
Are you saying Altgens was wrong? Someone who said he was 15 feet (approximately) away when the head shot hit? Are you saying he's wrong and you're right when you nor anyone else on this forum were there and actually witnessed the shooting?
Are you saying, when Altgens states in his testimony that with a great degree of certainty, no more shots were fired after the head shot, that he's wrong and your theory proves otherwise, that more shots did take place after the head shot?
Answer the question, Chris. Don't quibble. Don't make it about you nor me nor anyone else.
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Once again, Chris, you're quibbling about this, trying to prove I'm wrong. Don't quibble, Chris.
Stick to the case, Chris, and answer the simple question - James Altgens said no more shots were fired after the head shot, which is indicated in Z313 and all of the other films.
Are you saying Altgens was wrong? Someone who said he was 15 feet (approximately) away when the head shot hit? Are you saying he's wrong and you're right when you nor anyone else on this forum were there and actually witnessed the shooting?
Are you saying, when Altgens states in his testimony that with a great degree of certainty, no more shots were fired after the head shot, that he's wrong and your theory proves otherwise, that more shots did take place after the head shot?
Answer the question, Chris. Don't quibble. Don't make it about you nor me nor anyone else.
It's math time for MW.
The (width of Elm St) divided by (3 lanes) + the (distance to JFK in the limo from lane marker closest to Jackie) = ?
So the SS/FBI heard Altgens description of a headshot and therefore it was plotted as shot #3. Not
Stop wasting my time.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7869/32368474897_bb4e149475_o.png)
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A more official diorama might help.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7882/33434987848_1651ac8025_o.jpg)
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Since MW was nice enough to supply a linked version of Muchmore's video, obviously not created by him, I thought I would make it a little easier to understand a problem that arises from it.
I took the supplied version and stabilized Clint (rest your cursor on Clint's head to understand stabilization), while creating the more appropriate real speed at which Clint ran after the limo.
Remember, to start with, Clint is a certain distance behind the back of the limo while a particular number of frames elapses as the limo continues on.
If the proper distance is determined for distance traveled via plotting, we can determine if Clint is more super human than Usain Bolt in his world record setting 100m dash.
Here's a hint, how many full/half strides does Clint take in 21 frames as he pushes off from the SS followup car?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWyrqcY8DbGqQovu9FMBfBbX5LsIQiWl/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWyrqcY8DbGqQovu9FMBfBbX5LsIQiWl/view?usp=sharing)
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You still haven't answered my question, Chris. Was James Altgens wrong about saying no more shots were fired after Z313? And if he was wrong, how can you prove he was wrong?
No math or formulas are needed, Chris. Just answer the question. Prove that Altgens was wrong when he said with a great degree of certainty that no more shots were fired after the head shot, which we can all see in Z, Muchmore, and Nix.
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Full zoom all the way through, based on the extant Zfilm.
I'm not saying I necessarily believe that.
The Zapruder film narrative of full zoom plus Z conveniently/crucially not capturing the wall (and its contents) deprives us of seeing Z413 actually looking a bit like this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBPrC6zY/cropped.png)
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Robert,
The inset was on full zoom.
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/shaneyfelt33costella.gif)
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Robert,
The inset was on full zoom.
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/shaneyfelt33costella.gif)
Chris, I saw your recreation about 3 years ago and wondered 1) if you filmed using the exact settings as Zapruder 2) if so, how could the Z-413 look like the gigantic monstrosity we see/minus the wall
How does a recreation (like yours) using the same settings as Z's FOV appear so different? Painted in scenery?
Your version is appears to be 1/6th of the Z film's. Am I missing something?
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Just out of interest, does anyone know the type of car (circled) used by Shaneyfelt? I'm curious as to the car's size in comparison to the limo
(https://i.postimg.cc/FzFYpg7T/700-limo.jpg)
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After sizing this Z411 frame via John Costella's recommendation and then scaling mine at 89% along with a 2 degree ccw rotation and pin-cushion correction of -7.0(Photoshop), this is the comparison result:
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Z411.gif)
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After sizing this Z411 frame via John Costella's recommendation and then scaling mine at 89% along with a 2 degree ccw rotation and pin-cushion correction of -7.0(Photoshop), this is the comparison result:
(https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Z411.gif)
Forget what I said about your's being 1/6th. I was kinda jumping the gun with something I was thinking myself about the frame size being. Sorta answering it myself.
Like
(https://i.postimg.cc/15FyvxVt/cropped-comaprison.gif)
Notice how the 3 tallest pyracantha bushes match where: 1) the lampost at the end of the wall 2) in the walls end area where BDM and anybody else might have been 3) the tree next to the Turnpike sign. Which would mean the car was painted in larger than normal. Where the wall should be. Camouflaging the wall/Its contents.
Also, notice how the FBI recreation, real life Turnpike sign, it fits almost exactly into a space between the dark Presidential flag and tree in the Z film. To mee, it's like a painted scene. A cover-up.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDG5K2Jh/ezgif-com-optimize.gif)
Those Z-film pyracantha bushes are unrealistic, they were NOT that height on the day of the assassination.
As this FBI recreation 5 days later shows.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2ZXz0W5/slowed-gif.gif)
Interested to know what you think. Chris. I've found some other interesting thing's which I'll post.
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You still haven't answered my question, Chris. Was James Altgens wrong about saying no more shots were fired after Z313? And if he was wrong, how can you prove he was wrong?
No math or formulas are needed, Chris. Just answer the question. Prove that Altgens was wrong when he said with a great degree of certainty that no more shots were fired after the head shot, which we can all see in Z, Muchmore, and Nix.
Bumping this because Davidson, who many, many people amazingly think this guy is some kind of expert, NEVER replied to my very simply question on this:
Was Altgens, who was there, wrong in his testimony? And is Davidson, who was not, right?