JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Dillon Rankine on August 29, 2018, 01:51:51 AM
-
Was JFK shot in the temple?
Malcolm Kilduff famously pointed to his right temple when describing JFK?s wound. He also clarified to reporters that he had somehow cane upon the knowledge of a right temporal injury. Dr. Malcolm Perry, as per a WOR radio broadcast, apparently agreed, as did Dr. Kemp Clark in the NBC log. JFK was apparently shot ?in the front as he faced the assailant.?
A review of the reports of the Parkland doctors, however, reveals no discussion of this wound. They did, oddly enough, talk about a left temporal wound. In CE-392, Dr. Robert McClelland claims the chase of death was of gunshot wound of the left temple. He later swore on the veracity of this report to Specter. Did he confuse left from right, and confirm what Kilduff and the famous CT entrance wound? Not at all. Firstly, Dr. Clark claimed to have never seen this wound, and Dr. Marion Jenkins made this perplexing remark:
?I don't know whether this is right or not, but I thought there was a wound on the left temporal area, right at the hairline and right above the zygomatic process.?
Here?s the zygomatic process.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Zygomatic_process_of_temporal_bone_-_lateral_view.png/1200px-Zygomatic_process_of_temporal_bone_-_lateral_view.png)
Dr. Adolph Giesecke likewise stated to the WC,
?It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from the brow? line to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cra?nium was entirely missing.?
Father Oscar Hubert stated he saw a wound near the left eye, and Boswell noted a 0.4cm something-or-other (we?re never told) at the left eye.
Per Jenkins, it looks almost like the Parkland staff only inferred the existence this wound, given its lack of presence at autopsy and its physical impossibility. The top of the zygomatic process at the hairline is, at Z-312ish, completely invisible to any assassin anywhere in the Plaza. It couldn?t have been exit wound due the lack of a dead Mrs. Kennedy. Not even a shooter on the south knoll had a line of sight to that point.
What do we make of this wound? Confusing left and right? The ER doctors haven?t been of much help recently. Despite confirming that his report was accurate to his knowledge, Dr. McClelland never mentions the wound in his testimony, and denied ever seeing such a wound in later interviews (usually when asked a right temporal wound).
The mysterious vanishing wound. First everybody saw it, then they just knew about it, then not even that.
Of course, Dr. Charles Crenshaw of Parkland and Dennis David, the mortician at Bethesda, became CT darlings after saving the day by observing a right temporal wound near the top of the head, at the Kilduff (rather than the bottom as supposed by Jenkins).
Dr. Lattimer has noted the presence of a lesion in this spot on the photos of the head and inside the skull, included in Lawrence Angel?s reconstruction. They proposed it to be an exit portal for the rearward striking bullet, but others beg to differ. Obviously.
Whatever is up with this left temporal wound seems to suggest the Parkland staff might not be as reliable as customarily asserted by CTs.
Anybody able to make heads or tails of this?
-
To make it even more perplexing, McClelland told a medical journal about three to four hours after the assassination that the head wound he saw was on JFK's right side of his head.
The quote: "The cause of death, according to Dr. McClelland, was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of the head."
But as you noted, McClelland's handwritten note, made at 4:45 the day of the assassination, reads (in part): "The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and ECG activity was gone."
So, in the same day we have McClelland saying the wound was on the left side of the head and then saying it was on right side of the head. And, of course, today and for the past several years he has stated that it was in the rear or back of JFK's head. Left, right and back.
Several of the other doctors - Perry et al. - were interviewed by the journal ("The Texas State Journal of Medicine"). To my knowledge the accounts are the earliest one given by them (yes, excluding the press conference Q-and-A).
Question: If the conspirators were trying to cover up the nature/location of these wounds, why would they allow the doctors to be interviewed in this way? Wouldn't this expose their conspiracy? I understand many of the Oswald defenders don't like questions like this but, sorry, these are legitimate ones. How else can one prove a conspiracy didn't happen - or question the claims - except by pointing to issues like this?
The article is here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth599863/m1/105/?q=McClelland
-
Question: If the conspirators were trying to cover up the nature/location of these wounds, why would they allow the doctors to be interviewed in this way?
Allow the doctors to be interviewed? Why is it that the conspirators that you guys always make up have superhuman powers?
-
Why is it that the conspirators that you guys always make up have superhuman powers?
Your conspirators could have killed Kennedy anywhere in America and patsy's were apparently a dime a dozen, so if this was planned with an ounce of competency they would have done the crime where they had control you know like in Washington and maybe near Bethesda, so they could at least have control of the body and evidence but instead they did it on the other side of the country and then on top of that went to a lot of trouble to get the body and evidence out of there. Where does that make sense besides on Planet Kook?
But the reality is that Mohammed didn't have to go to the Mountain, the mountain came to Mohammed.
JohnM
-
Allow the doctors to be interviewed? Why is it that the conspirators that you guys always make up have superhuman powers?
Why is it that you're always incapable of understanding a point if it undermines your incessant need to defend Oswald? This almost pathological need of yours to defend him is bizarre.
Of course the conspirators couldn't control all of the doctors and witnesses and other evidence that would have been gathered. JFK was killed in broad daylight, in the middle of a street, with hundreds of people - many with cameras - watching.
After the shooting he would be taken to Parkland (the nearest hospital) where numerous nurses and doctors and spectators would see him. All of this couldn't be controlled.
It is absurd to believe that they could pull off the conspiracy that Garrison and Oliver Stone and Mark Lane and David Lifton and other leading conspiracy people say happened.
You keep complaining that the lone assassin believers make things up about what the conspiracy advocates argue. But you clearly know nothing about what they do argue since they do argue that witnesses were killed, wounds were changed, films were altered and all sorts of evidence against Oswald manipulated.
Get off the "must demand defend Oswald" obsession that you have and try to think like a normal person. Those are two things I doubt you can do but surprise us.
-
Why is it that you're always incapable of understanding a point if it undermines your incessant need to defend Oswald? This almost pathological need of yours to defend him is bizarre.
I'm defending the truth. If the best argument you have for Oswald's guilt is "hey, look how kooky conspiracy theories are", then you have no argument.
-
Maybe there wasn't a complicit / incompetent police force who hated Kennedy in Washington and maybe near Bethesda...
-
I'm defending the truth. If the best argument you have for Oswald's guilt is "hey, look how kooky conspiracy theories are", then you have no argument.
Meanwhile, they fully support the most ridiculous theory of all -- the SBT. 🤣
-
Let's not forget, or act like, Dallas was the only place the conspirators had in mind as there is evidence for places like Chicago, Miami, Tampa and Los Angeles as well.
A pliable police force was important.
-
I'm defending the truth.
LOL.
What?s the truth? By which I hope you mean the closest thing we can know, as any other definition of truth isn?t liable to be obtained by anything.
-
Your conspirators could have killed Kennedy anywhere in America and patsy's were apparently a dime a dozen, so if this was planned with an ounce of competency they would have done the crime where they had control you know like in Washington and maybe near Bethesda, so they could at least have control of the body and evidence but instead they did it on the other side of the country and then on top of that went to a lot of trouble to get the body and evidence out of there. Where does that make sense besides on Planet Kook?
But the reality is that Mohammed didn't have to go to the Mountain, the mountain came to Mohammed.
JohnM
Photos of the entrance wound at the EOP, observed and photographed at autopsy, and problematic with a
bullet fired from the 6th floor SE corner TSBD, disappeared.
Photos of JFK's right lung/chest, which would have shown the direction and path of the magic bullet also
disappeared.
The location of both those wounds were changed to fit the official narrative, courtesy of Jerry Ford and the
Clark Panel.
-
Was JFK shot in the temple?
Malcolm Kilduff famously pointed to his right temple when describing JFK?s wound. He also clarified to reporters that he had somehow cane upon the knowledge of a right temporal injury. Dr. Malcolm Perry, as per a WOR radio broadcast, apparently agreed, as did Dr. Kemp Clark in the NBC log. JFK was apparently shot ?in the front as he faced the assailant.?
I think the 'shot in the front as he faced the assailant' quote stems from the initial belief that the trachestomy incision was made over an entrance wound to the throat.
Of course, using common sense we know that the throat wound couldn't have possibly been an entrance wound, as there is no exit wound and no bullet was found in JFK's neck.
And unless you believe the Zapruder film has been altered it's pretty clear JFK was hit in the head once, and one time only. From the rear.
All this talk of perfectly synchronized head shots, entry wounds to the throat and/or right or left temple is a bunch of rubbish.
-
I think the 'shot in the front as he faced the assailant' quote stems from the initial belief that the trachestomy incision was made over an entrance wound to the throat.
Of course, using common sense we know that the throat wound couldn't have possibly been an entrance wound, as there is no exit wound and no bullet was found in JFK's neck.
And unless you believe the Zapruder film has been altered it's pretty clear JFK was hit in the head once, and one time only. From the rear.
All this talk of perfectly synchronized head shots, entry wounds to the throat and/or right or left temple is a bunch of rubbish.
The Z-film gives little indication as to the directionality of the gunshot.
The point of this post was to highlight that the ER staff aren?t quite the trustworthy ?expert witnesses? they?re often portrayed as, and to point out that we can?t judge the veracity of any perception based on the qualifications of the observer.
-
The Z-film gives little indication as to the directionality of the gunshot.
The point of this post was to highlight that the ER staff aren?t quite the trustworthy ?expert witnesses? they?re often portrayed as, and to point out that we can?t judge the veracity of any perception based on the qualifications of the observer.
Completely disagree that the Zapruder film gives little indication of directionality.
The forward movement of JFK's head at the moment of impact and the splatter is conclusive proof of a shot from the rear.
-
Completely disagree that the Zapruder film gives little indication of directionality.
The forward movement of JFK's head at the moment of impact and the splatter is conclusive proof of a shot from the rear.
-
Ford had to move the bullet wound in the Back of JFK UP to the base of JFK's neck. No way JFK's Back wound location as corroborated by the Autopsy Face Sheet, the Bullet Hole in JFK's dress jacket, and the bullet hole in JFK's dress shirt could have resulted in an exit wound via his throat. This establishes a Conspiracy being used in the assassination of JFK.
-
Completely disagree that the Zapruder film gives little indication of directionality.
The forward movement of JFK's head at the moment of impact and the splatter is conclusive proof of a shot from the rear.
It?s not that simple. First off that movement is mostly just the byproduct of a blur (or jiggle). Though still present, the movement doesn?t tell us much, as there?s some evidence that objects hit by high-velocity objects exhibit brief movements toward the force (which I think cane from either G. Pual Chambers or Sherry Fiester).
The blood in the film doesn?t help either. It?s consistent with a shot from back or front. It?s just the result of cranial pressure or other biophysical effects.
The film gives us great evidence, but nothing regarding the origin of the shot.
-
Ford had to move the bullet wound in the Back of JFK UP to the base of JFK's neck. No way JFK's Back wound location as corroborated by the Autopsy Face Sheet, the Bullet Hole in JFK's dress jacket, and the bullet hole in JFK's dress shirt could have resulted in an exit wound via his throat. This establishes a Conspiracy being used in the assassination of JFK.
Relevance to the OP?
And none of that establishes a conspiracy. It establishes that lawyers will lie to make their case because they know nothing about ballistics.
-
Relevance to the OP?
And none of that establishes a conspiracy. It establishes that lawyers will lie to make their case because they know nothing about ballistics.
Wound location confusion.
-
There was NO confusion at PH by the doctors and nurses that worked there.
**********************************************
The Warren Commission (WC) said that President John F. Kennedy (JFK) was shot from behind ONLY, thus, NO wounds should have been seen on the backside of JFK?s head (save for a small entrance wound), but many witnesses did see such a wound.
How can the WC defenders explain this?
*************************************
Secret Service Agent (SS) Clint Hill was the man who ran to the limousine and climbed on the rear of the car, thus, he had a good view of the BACK of JFK's head. He would tell the WC this during his testimony.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Parkland Hospital (PH) Nurse Diana Bowron testified to the following before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition?
Miss BOWRON - He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - You saw the condition of his what?
Miss BOWRON - The back of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - And what was that condition?
Miss BOWRON - Well, it was very bad---you know.
Mr. SPECTER - How many holes did you see?
Miss BOWRON - I just saw one large hole.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you see a small bullet hole beneath that one large hole?
Miss BOWRON - No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you notice any other wound on the President's body?
Miss BOWRON - No, sir.
PH doctor Charles J. Carrico testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Would you describe as precisely for me as possible the nature of the head wound which you observed on the President?
Dr. CARRICO - The wound that I saw was a large gaping wound, located in the right occipitoparietal* area. I would estimate to be about 5 to 7 cm. in size, more or less circular, with avulsions of the calvarium and scalp tissue. As I stated before, I believe there was shredded macerated cerebral and cerebellar tissues both in the wounds and on the fragments of the skull attached to the dura.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you notice any other opening in the head besides the one you have just described?
Dr. CARRICO - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER - Specifically, did you notice a bullet wound below the large gaping hole which you described?
Dr. CARRICO - No, sir.
*The occipitoparietal is the right rear portion that includes the side of the head.
PH Nurse Patricia Hutton was NOT called by the WC, and one has to wonder why. This is from a statement given by her.
Quote on
ACTIVITIES OF PAT HUTTON
ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963
I came back from lunch, and went to the O.B.-Gynocology section where I was working. At approximately 12:30 P.M., the triage nurse called us to bring a cart out to the entrance. We took said cart out the door, and it was then that I realized who was in the car.
Several people helped put the President on the cart, and we then proceeded to the Major Surgery section of the Emergency Room to Trauma Room #1. **Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head**, and was lying there unresponsive.
As soon as we reached the room, a doctor placed an endotracheal tube, and prepared for a tracheostomy. Within a few minutes, there were numerous doctors in the room starting I.V.'s, placing chest tubes and anesthesia with O2. **A doctor asked me to place a pressure dressing on the head wound. This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.**
Blood was pumped in along with the I.V.'s running. After a period of handing instruments and equipment to the doctors as needed, it was announced that the President had expired. We then removed the tubes and I.V.'s from him. Mrs. Kennedy came in with a priest, and last rites were performed. When Mrs. Kennedy left, we removed all of the equipment from the room, and I then left at the request of the supervisor to get a plastic cover to line the coffin. I returned with it, and Mr. Kennedy was placed in the coffin to await orders to move him by ambulance. After that, I stood outside the door with Mrs. Nelson until the body was removed. When the area was clear, another nurse and I went up to the dining room for coffee. We returned to the Emergency Room where I changed clothes, and left at approximately 4:00P.M. for home.
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1963
I arrived for work at 9:30 A.M., and was told that our names had been released, and to check with administration before talking with
anyone.
I was not asked any questions by anyone, and spent an uneventful 8 hours on duty.
Patricia B. Hutton, R.N.
Quote off
PH doctor Ronald Coy Jones testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds?
Dr. JONES - As we saw him the first time, we noticed that he had a small wound at the midline of the neck, just above the superasternal notch, and this was probably no greater than a quarter of an inch in greatest diameter, and that he had a large wound in the right posterior side of the head.
PH doctor Malcom Perry testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you now describe as specifically as you can, the injury which you noted in the President's head?
Dr. PERRY - As I mentioned previously in the record, I made only a cursory examination of the President's head. I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area*, in which both scalp and portions of skull were absent, and there was severe laceration of underlying brain tissue. My examination did not go any further than that.
* Again, this is the right REAR AND SIDE of the head.
PH doctor William Kemp Clark testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?
Dr. CLARK - ...I then examined the President briefly.
My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.
I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.
PH doctor Paul Conrad Peters testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the nature of the President's wound?
Dr. PETERS - Well, as I mentioned, the neck wound had already been interfered with by the tracheotomy at the time I got there, but I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you notice in the occiput?
Dr. PETERS - It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal* area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.
* Again, this is the RIGHT REAR and side of the Preident's head.
PH doctor Gene Coleman Akin testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds on him at the time you first saw him?
Dr. AKIN - There was a midline neck wound below the level of the cricoid cartilage, about 1 to 1.5 cm. in diameter, the lower part of this had been cut across when I saw the wound, it had been cut across with a knife in the performance of the tracheotomy. The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered, with brain substance extruding.
PH Dr. Charles Rufus Baxter:
Dr. Baxter - We then gave him or Dr. Perry and Dr. Clark alternated giving him closed chest cardiac massage only until we could get a cardioscope hooked up to tell us if there were any detectible heartbeat electrically present, at least, and there was none, and we discussed at that moment whether we should open the chest to attempt to revive him, while the closed chest massage was going on, and we had an opportunity to look at his head wound then and saw that the damage was beyond hope, that is, in a word-- literally the right side of his head had been blown off.
SS Agent William Greer:
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe about the President with respect to his wounds?
Mr. GREER. His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off.
Greer clearly says the top and ?right rear side of the head? was blown off.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. During the course of the autopsy did you hear any doctor say anything about the wound on the right side of Mr. Kennedy's back?
Mr. GREER. That was the first time that I had ever seen it when the doctors were performing the autopsy, they saw this hole in the right shoulder or back of the head, and in the back, and that was the first I had known that he was ever shot there, and they brought it to our attention or discussed it there a little bit.
Here he says they saw a hole in the shoulder OR the ?back of the head.?
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe in very general terms what injury you observed as to the President's head during the course of the autopsy?
Mr. GREER. I would--to the best of my recollection it was in this part of the head right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Upper right?
Mr. GREER. Upper right side.
Mr. SPECTER. Upper right side, going toward the rear. And what was the condition of the skull at that point?
Mr. GREER. The skull was completely--this part was completely gone.
Why would the wound ?go to the rear? IF it had been fired from the rear? Doesn?t the damage a bullet makes stay in FRONT of the path? I thought so, but I guess not. For those WC defenders that say he did NOT say it was the back of the head then read this.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any other opening or hole of any sort in the head itself?
Mr. GREER. No, sir; I didn't. No other one.
Mr. SPECTER. Specifically did you observe a hole which would be below the large area of skull which was absent?
Mr. GREER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to look in the back of the head immediately below where the skull was missing?
Mr. GREER. No; I can't remember even examining the head that close at that time.
He said he did NOT examine the head close at that time and doesn?t remember seeing/looking at the back of JFK?s head. He should have seen this hole since SS Agent Hill did. This brings us to the last witness.
SS Agent Roy Kellerman
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.
Kellerman saw TWO wounds to JFK?s head and this makes sense as it seems to me he was hit simultaneously from the back and front and that is why there is so much damage to his head. What does this mean?
Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches; would that be approximately correct?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the rear portion of the head.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. More to the right side of the head?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. This was removed.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The skull part was removed.
How could he see a large circular wound in the back of the head IF THE SKULL WAS REMOVED ALREADY? If it was removed, how do we know this skull part came from JFK and was NOT inserted to make it look like it had? Furthermore, who removed it IF JFK was shot as claimed by the WC? It gets more intriguing with this testimony.
Mr. SPECTER. You are now referring to the hole which you describe being below the missing part of the skull?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; it was confirmed that the entry of the shell here went right through the top and removed that piece of the skull.
Mr. SPECTER. And who confirmed that?
Mr. KELLERMAN. One of the three gentlemen; I don't recall.
Mr. SPECTER. You don't recall which one, but it was one of the three doctors doing the autopsy?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. So you are saying it confirmed that the hole that was below the piece of skull that was removed, was the point of entry of the one bullet which then passed up through the head and took off the skull?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right, sir. That is correct.
He said before this that the part that was removed was in the right rear portion of the head, but now Specter is making it sound like he was referring to the top of the head. Why? Also, how does a shot that was supposedly fired in a DOWNWARD trajectory ascend UPWARDS after entering the skull? Do we have another ?magic bullet? to deal with?
Specter was crafty as he made it sound like he was talking about an ENTRY wound, but look at what Kellerman said again to see Specter was misleading him and us.
Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Kellerman clearly says he had a ?large wound? this size, and does NOT indicate he saw a small entry wound as Specter is trying to make it sound like.
These first hand accounts of the head wound SINK the official conclusion all by themselves, thus, the WC defenders have to claim all eyewitnesses are useless in this case in order to continue to make their WCR claims. These were professionals at Parkland Hospital (PH) and they saw a good number of gunshot wounds each year, so for them to be wrong on something this basic is just ludicrous.
Again, the WC?s conclusion is sunk.
-
Again, the WC?s conclusion is sunk.[/b]
Sorry but the Zapruder Film and the Nix Film and the Autopsy photos and the X rays and the following Dealey Plaza 1st day eyewitnesses and some Parkland doctors all agree that it only happened one way.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/n8jwxfkm3/alotofevidence2a.jpg)
JohnM
-
Sorry but the Zapruder Film and the Nix Film and the Autopsy photos and the X rays and the following Dealey Plaza 1st day eyewitnesses and some Parkland doctors all agree that it only happened one way.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/n8jwxfkm3/alotofevidence2a.jpg)
JohnM
The PH staff did agree that JFK's head was bown out at the right REAR.
-
There was NO confusion at PH by the doctors and nurses that worked there.
**********************************************
The Warren Commission (WC) said that President John F. Kennedy (JFK) was shot from behind ONLY, thus, NO wounds should have been seen on the backside of JFK?s head (save for a small entrance wound), but many witnesses did see such a wound.
How can the WC defenders explain this?
*************************************
Secret Service Agent (SS) Clint Hill was the man who ran to the limousine and climbed on the rear of the car, thus, he had a good view of the BACK of JFK's head. He would tell the WC this during his testimony.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Parkland Hospital (PH) Nurse Diana Bowron testified to the following before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition?
Miss BOWRON - He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - You saw the condition of his what?
Miss BOWRON - The back of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - And what was that condition?
Miss BOWRON - Well, it was very bad---you know.
Mr. SPECTER - How many holes did you see?
Miss BOWRON - I just saw one large hole.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you see a small bullet hole beneath that one large hole?
Miss BOWRON - No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you notice any other wound on the President's body?
Miss BOWRON - No, sir.
PH doctor Charles J. Carrico testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Would you describe as precisely for me as possible the nature of the head wound which you observed on the President?
Dr. CARRICO - The wound that I saw was a large gaping wound, located in the right occipitoparietal* area. I would estimate to be about 5 to 7 cm. in size, more or less circular, with avulsions of the calvarium and scalp tissue. As I stated before, I believe there was shredded macerated cerebral and cerebellar tissues both in the wounds and on the fragments of the skull attached to the dura.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you notice any other opening in the head besides the one you have just described?
Dr. CARRICO - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER - Specifically, did you notice a bullet wound below the large gaping hole which you described?
Dr. CARRICO - No, sir.
*The occipitoparietal is the right rear portion that includes the side of the head.
PH Nurse Patricia Hutton was NOT called by the WC, and one has to wonder why. This is from a statement given by her.
Quote on
ACTIVITIES OF PAT HUTTON
ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963
I came back from lunch, and went to the O.B.-Gynocology section where I was working. At approximately 12:30 P.M., the triage nurse called us to bring a cart out to the entrance. We took said cart out the door, and it was then that I realized who was in the car.
Several people helped put the President on the cart, and we then proceeded to the Major Surgery section of the Emergency Room to Trauma Room #1. **Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head**, and was lying there unresponsive.
As soon as we reached the room, a doctor placed an endotracheal tube, and prepared for a tracheostomy. Within a few minutes, there were numerous doctors in the room starting I.V.'s, placing chest tubes and anesthesia with O2. **A doctor asked me to place a pressure dressing on the head wound. This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.**
Blood was pumped in along with the I.V.'s running. After a period of handing instruments and equipment to the doctors as needed, it was announced that the President had expired. We then removed the tubes and I.V.'s from him. Mrs. Kennedy came in with a priest, and last rites were performed. When Mrs. Kennedy left, we removed all of the equipment from the room, and I then left at the request of the supervisor to get a plastic cover to line the coffin. I returned with it, and Mr. Kennedy was placed in the coffin to await orders to move him by ambulance. After that, I stood outside the door with Mrs. Nelson until the body was removed. When the area was clear, another nurse and I went up to the dining room for coffee. We returned to the Emergency Room where I changed clothes, and left at approximately 4:00P.M. for home.
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1963
I arrived for work at 9:30 A.M., and was told that our names had been released, and to check with administration before talking with
anyone.
I was not asked any questions by anyone, and spent an uneventful 8 hours on duty.
Patricia B. Hutton, R.N.
Quote off
PH doctor Ronald Coy Jones testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds?
Dr. JONES - As we saw him the first time, we noticed that he had a small wound at the midline of the neck, just above the superasternal notch, and this was probably no greater than a quarter of an inch in greatest diameter, and that he had a large wound in the right posterior side of the head.
PH doctor Malcom Perry testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you now describe as specifically as you can, the injury which you noted in the President's head?
Dr. PERRY - As I mentioned previously in the record, I made only a cursory examination of the President's head. I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area*, in which both scalp and portions of skull were absent, and there was severe laceration of underlying brain tissue. My examination did not go any further than that.
* Again, this is the right REAR AND SIDE of the head.
PH doctor William Kemp Clark testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?
Dr. CLARK - ...I then examined the President briefly.
My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.
I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.
PH doctor Paul Conrad Peters testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the nature of the President's wound?
Dr. PETERS - Well, as I mentioned, the neck wound had already been interfered with by the tracheotomy at the time I got there, but I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you notice in the occiput?
Dr. PETERS - It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal* area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.
* Again, this is the RIGHT REAR and side of the Preident's head.
PH doctor Gene Coleman Akin testified to this before the WC.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds on him at the time you first saw him?
Dr. AKIN - There was a midline neck wound below the level of the cricoid cartilage, about 1 to 1.5 cm. in diameter, the lower part of this had been cut across when I saw the wound, it had been cut across with a knife in the performance of the tracheotomy. The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered, with brain substance extruding.
PH Dr. Charles Rufus Baxter:
Dr. Baxter - We then gave him or Dr. Perry and Dr. Clark alternated giving him closed chest cardiac massage only until we could get a cardioscope hooked up to tell us if there were any detectible heartbeat electrically present, at least, and there was none, and we discussed at that moment whether we should open the chest to attempt to revive him, while the closed chest massage was going on, and we had an opportunity to look at his head wound then and saw that the damage was beyond hope, that is, in a word-- literally the right side of his head had been blown off.
SS Agent William Greer:
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe about the President with respect to his wounds?
Mr. GREER. His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off.
Greer clearly says the top and ?right rear side of the head? was blown off.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. During the course of the autopsy did you hear any doctor say anything about the wound on the right side of Mr. Kennedy's back?
Mr. GREER. That was the first time that I had ever seen it when the doctors were performing the autopsy, they saw this hole in the right shoulder or back of the head, and in the back, and that was the first I had known that he was ever shot there, and they brought it to our attention or discussed it there a little bit.
Here he says they saw a hole in the shoulder OR the ?back of the head.?
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe in very general terms what injury you observed as to the President's head during the course of the autopsy?
Mr. GREER. I would--to the best of my recollection it was in this part of the head right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Upper right?
Mr. GREER. Upper right side.
Mr. SPECTER. Upper right side, going toward the rear. And what was the condition of the skull at that point?
Mr. GREER. The skull was completely--this part was completely gone.
Why would the wound ?go to the rear? IF it had been fired from the rear? Doesn?t the damage a bullet makes stay in FRONT of the path? I thought so, but I guess not. For those WC defenders that say he did NOT say it was the back of the head then read this.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any other opening or hole of any sort in the head itself?
Mr. GREER. No, sir; I didn't. No other one.
Mr. SPECTER. Specifically did you observe a hole which would be below the large area of skull which was absent?
Mr. GREER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to look in the back of the head immediately below where the skull was missing?
Mr. GREER. No; I can't remember even examining the head that close at that time.
He said he did NOT examine the head close at that time and doesn?t remember seeing/looking at the back of JFK?s head. He should have seen this hole since SS Agent Hill did. This brings us to the last witness.
SS Agent Roy Kellerman
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.
Kellerman saw TWO wounds to JFK?s head and this makes sense as it seems to me he was hit simultaneously from the back and front and that is why there is so much damage to his head. What does this mean?
Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches; would that be approximately correct?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the rear portion of the head.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. More to the right side of the head?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. This was removed.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The skull part was removed.
How could he see a large circular wound in the back of the head IF THE SKULL WAS REMOVED ALREADY? If it was removed, how do we know this skull part came from JFK and was NOT inserted to make it look like it had? Furthermore, who removed it IF JFK was shot as claimed by the WC? It gets more intriguing with this testimony.
Mr. SPECTER. You are now referring to the hole which you describe being below the missing part of the skull?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; it was confirmed that the entry of the shell here went right through the top and removed that piece of the skull.
Mr. SPECTER. And who confirmed that?
Mr. KELLERMAN. One of the three gentlemen; I don't recall.
Mr. SPECTER. You don't recall which one, but it was one of the three doctors doing the autopsy?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. So you are saying it confirmed that the hole that was below the piece of skull that was removed, was the point of entry of the one bullet which then passed up through the head and took off the skull?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right, sir. That is correct.
He said before this that the part that was removed was in the right rear portion of the head, but now Specter is making it sound like he was referring to the top of the head. Why? Also, how does a shot that was supposedly fired in a DOWNWARD trajectory ascend UPWARDS after entering the skull? Do we have another ?magic bullet? to deal with?
Specter was crafty as he made it sound like he was talking about an ENTRY wound, but look at what Kellerman said again to see Specter was misleading him and us.
Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Kellerman clearly says he had a ?large wound? this size, and does NOT indicate he saw a small entry wound as Specter is trying to make it sound like.
These first hand accounts of the head wound SINK the official conclusion all by themselves, thus, the WC defenders have to claim all eyewitnesses are useless in this case in order to continue to make their WCR claims. These were professionals at Parkland Hospital (PH) and they saw a good number of gunshot wounds each year, so for them to be wrong on something this basic is just ludicrous.
Again, the WC?s conclusion is sunk.
Relevance?
Did you even read the OP?
I brought up the obvious oddity about a left temporal wound.
How about you explain to me what they were banging on about rather than bring up unrelated statements about the blowout?see my recent post on the topic: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1207.0.html (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1207.0.html)
-
I doubt that Fr. Huber said anything like that. Fr. Huber is from my hometown of Perryville Mo. I sat down and spoke to his sister. I was given access to families scrape book. Which held a lot of stuff. The only thing that stood out. Is a letter he sent to William Manchester. About the quote attributed to Fr. Huber by Manchester. About JFK being dead. He said in the latter That is wrong i never said that.
-
Relevance?
Did you even read the OP?
I brought up the obvious oddity about a left temporal wound.
How about you explain to me what they were banging on about rather than bring up unrelated statements about the blowout?see my recent post on the topic: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1207.0.html (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1207.0.html)
It is relevant in showing that there was no confusion at PH by the staff. My post is very relevant. Stop trying to edit what other people post.
-
It is relevant in showing that there was no confusion at PH by the staff. My post is very relevant. Stop trying to edit what other people post.
Then eplain what they were talking about with the left temple. You?re just ignoring inconvenient facts because your illiterate theorising necessitates they were right about the wounds you like (see the post I made that shatters your BOH nonsense). When you respond you don?t no even address questions asked don you, and leap straight into attack mode.