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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Joe Elliott on August 27, 2018, 04:32:08 AM

Title: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Joe Elliott on August 27, 2018, 04:32:08 AM

New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape

This has been posted this month on Dale Myer?s website on the assassination.

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2018/ (http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2018/)

Does anyone here still believes the Dictabelt tape shows evidence of four or more shots?

Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 27, 2018, 06:14:36 PM
Here's what I think of the acoustics evidence.....
                                                         (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Joe Elliott on September 05, 2018, 03:21:12 AM
Here's what I think of the acoustics evidence.....
                                                         (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)
I think the same way about the acoustic evidence ?proofing? four or five shots. But some dead horses, at least dead CT horses, are pretty good at being resurrected if these bad arguments are simply ignored. And there are still a lot of CTers impressed with Donald B. Thomas.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: John Iacoletti on September 05, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
I think the same way about the acoustic evidence ?proofing? four or five shots. But some dead horses, at least dead CT horses, are pretty good at being resurrected if these bad arguments are simply ignored. And there are still a lot of CTers impressed with Donald B. Thomas.

People are always impressed by analyses that agree with what they already believe.  Including you.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Joe Elliott on September 06, 2018, 05:13:37 AM
People are always impressed by analyses that agree with what they already believe.  Including you.
Well, it appears no CT is impressed with the Dictabelt acoustic evidence either. At least no one has made any posts claiming the acoustic evidence is anything but a ?dead horse?. Perhaps no CT wishes to debate Steve Barber on the issue.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Colin Crow on September 09, 2018, 12:26:35 AM
In this 2017 presentation Donald Thomas claims there are multiple instances of crosstalk. Not sure what Steve Barber's argument is about their existence.

Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Royell Storing on September 09, 2018, 03:57:51 PM
Well, it appears no CT is impressed with the Dictabelt acoustic evidence either. At least no one has made any posts claiming the acoustic evidence is anything but a ?dead horse?. Perhaps no CT wishes to debate Steve Barber on the issue.

    The above is Exactly why POTUS Trump without fail responds to every single ridiculous slander leveled in his direction. If there is No Response, those making the ridiculous proclamation will claim the failure to respond = it being a Fact/True. Many times, a response of Silence is indicative of the obsurdity of the claim being made.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Jerry Organ on September 09, 2018, 04:09:18 PM
    The above is Exactly why POTUS Trump without fail responds to every single ridiculous slander leveled in his direction. If there is No Response, those making the ridiculous proclamation will claim the failure to respond = it being a Fact/True. Many times, a response of Silence is indicative of the obsurdity of the claim being made.
So if folks were to place you on their "Ignore" list, you wouldn't take it any particular way.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Jerry Freeman on September 09, 2018, 07:25:10 PM
I took the dead horse gif (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)based on Steve Barbers own article....
Quote
I?m not sure how many ways it can be said or how many times I have to explain it, but there is nothing to the recent allegations that the acoustics evidence offered by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979 as scientific proof of conspiracy is somehow valid - again.
[The NAS had all this equipment..Steve used his ears]
The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) cut the legs out from underneath that horse a long time ago (I should know, I helped them) and continuing to beat that horse isn?t going to make it get up and gallop away.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Colin Crow on September 10, 2018, 01:20:21 AM
Well, it appears no CT is impressed with the Dictabelt acoustic evidence either. At least no one has made any posts claiming the acoustic evidence is anything but a ?dead horse?. Perhaps no CT wishes to debate Steve Barber on the issue.

Seems like you passed wind and left the room. Are you not able to answer the question about Thomas' claim of multiple examples of crosstalk?
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Joe Elliott on September 10, 2018, 04:20:17 AM
Seems like you passed wind and left the room. Are you not able to answer the question about Thomas' claim of multiple examples of crosstalk?
You cannot avoid insulting someone who did not insult you?
Actually, Steve Barber is our expert on the Dictabelt recording. I think I can give good estimates on the speed of the limousine at any time, and the angular speed of the target from the sniper?s nest or anywhere else. But I don?t know a lot about the Dictabelt recordings.
My impression is that cross talk was not uncommon. So, I don?t see the relevance of Thomas claiming multiple examples of crosstalk.
Now, if Thomas can point out a single instant where a Channel 1 recording was offset by a minute from the Channel 2 recording, that would be of interest. That could explain why the ?gunshots? seemed to have been recorded a minute after the real assassination.
Question:
Has Thomas found such a case?

And just a few quibbles I have about the acoustic case.
The Dictabelt recording system was still in use in the 1970?s when the acoustic experts ran their tests at Dealey Plaza. They could have had a motorcycle recording the recreations of the shots as they were recorded on the Dictabelt machine. Recreating what they alleged happened in 1963, a motorcycle with a stuck button in Dealey Plaza (and not somewhere else, like the Trade Mart Center) recorded the gunshots.But the acoustic experts failed to do so.
Had they done so, we would have Dictabelt recordings of the gunshot recreations.
I always found it strange that the Dictabelt did not record audible gunshots. Yes, I know the experts claim that we should not expect to, because the system was not designed to do this. Had the acoustic experts done this, we would not have to wonder if it would record audible shots or not. We would definitely know. However, I am expected to give the acoustic experts the benefit of the doubt and assume that the Dictabelt would not record audible gunshots, when it is their fault that we do not have definitive proof.
Also, making a Dictabelt recording may have shown that the gunshots recorded on one Channel could be offset from the other Channel by up to a minute. Had the acoustic experts utilized the Dictabelt system, we might know for certain that the gunshots could be offset by a minute from other simultaneous voice recordings. However, once again, I am expected to give the acoustic experts the benefit of the doubt and assume that the two Channels could be offset by up to a minute, when it is their fault that they bypassed a chance to prove this assertion.
And it should be noted, that some of the Dallas police recalled that the Dictabelt system did record audible gunshots during the acoustic tests of the 1970?s. But for some reason did not in 1963. Which is yet another reason to have severe doubts about the acoustic findings.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Colin Crow on September 10, 2018, 06:24:25 AM
You cannot avoid insulting someone who did not insult you?
Actually, Steve Barber is our expert on the Dictabelt recording. I think I can give good estimates on the speed of the limousine at any time, and the angular speed of the target from the sniper?s nest or anywhere else. But I don?t know a lot about the Dictabelt recordings.
My impression is that cross talk was not uncommon. So, I don?t see the relevance of Thomas claiming multiple examples of crosstalk.
Now, if Thomas can point out a single instant where a Channel 1 recording was offset by a minute from the Channel 2 recording, that would be of interest. That could explain why the ?gunshots? seemed to have been recorded a minute after the real assassination.
Question:
Has Thomas found such a case?

And just a few quibbles I have about the acoustic case.
The Dictabelt recording system was still in use in the 1970?s when the acoustic experts ran their tests at Dealey Plaza. They could have had a motorcycle recording the recreations of the shots as they were recorded on the Dictabelt machine. Recreating what they alleged happened in 1963, a motorcycle with a stuck button in Dealey Plaza (and not somewhere else, like the Trade Mart Center) recorded the gunshots.But the acoustic experts failed to do so.
Had they done so, we would have Dictabelt recordings of the gunshot recreations.
I always found it strange that the Dictabelt did not record audible gunshots. Yes, I know the experts claim that we should not expect to, because the system was not designed to do this. Had the acoustic experts done this, we would not have to wonder if it would record audible shots or not. We would definitely know. However, I am expected to give the acoustic experts the benefit of the doubt and assume that the Dictabelt would not record audible gunshots, when it is their fault that we do not have definitive proof.
Also, making a Dictabelt recording may have shown that the gunshots recorded on one Channel could be offset from the other Channel by up to a minute. Had the acoustic experts utilized the Dictabelt system, we might know for certain that the gunshots could be offset by a minute from other simultaneous voice recordings. However, once again, I am expected to give the acoustic experts the benefit of the doubt and assume that the two Channels could be offset by up to a minute, when it is their fault that they bypassed a chance to prove this assertion.
And it should be noted, that some of the Dallas police recalled that the Dictabelt system did record audible gunshots during the acoustic tests of the 1970?s. But for some reason did not in 1963. Which is yet another reason to have severe doubts about the acoustic findings.

Calm down Joe, it was a metaphorical fart reference. Your original post refers to an article by Steve Barber. I assumed you read it. I also assumed you were aware of Dr Thomas' recent presentation that refers to the crosstalk issue and its implications for the offset.

Thanks for your reply.

I shall await for further developments.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Joe Elliott on September 10, 2018, 07:34:32 AM
Calm down Joe, it was a metaphorical fart reference. Your original post refers to an article by Steve Barber. I assumed you read it. I also assumed you were aware of Dr Thomas' recent presentation that refers to the crosstalk issue and its implications for the offset.

Thanks for your reply.

I shall await for further developments.
We should hear from Steven Barber at some point on your question.

On another issue, it should have been obvious to the HSCA acoustic experts that people would doubt that the sound impulses were recordings of gunshots, because they don?t sound like gunshots. Other recording devices record the sound of gunshots and the recordings do sound like gunshots or at least audible bangs. And none of these recording devices were designed to pick up the sounds of gunshots, but they still do so with no problem.
Question:
Why didn?t the acoustic experts use the Dictabelt system to record the sounds of their acoustic tests back in the 1970?s, when they could have done so?

Had they do so, we would know, beyond all doubt, that the Dictabelt system would only record sound impulses, but not audible bangs.

Question:
Have the acoustic experts ever given an explanation on why this was not done?

Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Steve Barber on May 07, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
 If I may, I refer all to this article published on Dale Myers' website, I put Don Thomas' theory to rest, and not only did Dale publish this article, Vincent Bugliosi published a piece I submitted to him (and broke the story) in Reclaiming History in 2007, in the End Notes, which are a part of the CD-Rom included in the book. The Chapter titled "Other Investigations" under "Acoustics".  Scroll up to find the beginning of the acoustics chapter to read(even though the entire section on the acoustics is not available within this link to Google Books) I am providing links to both the book and my piece.   I clearly point out that Thomas' claim that there is a segment of "crosstalk" just 3 seconds before the first BBN "gunshot" is false, and a desperate attempt to keep the acoustics experts' findings alive fails largely.
I also put the theory of there having been a "carillon bell" recorded on the Dictabelt recording to rest. 

 https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/07/of-crosstalk-and-bells-rebuttal-to-don.html


 https://books.google.com/books?id=q1VJAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT2453&lpg=PT2453&dq=Reclaiming+History+Vincent+Bugliosi%2BSteve+Barber+acoustics&source=bl&ots=6BU8W1UGrh&sig=ACfU3U3xUWWIaK4utjyPkPRY8sKNHJOtoQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6iKm56aHpAhWBGM0KHeE8BikQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Reclaiming%20History%20Vincent%20Bugliosi%2BSteve%20Barber%20acoustics&f=false

 



 
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Richard Rubio on May 07, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
If the dictabelt issue is beating a dead horse, perhaps the whole issue of the JFK assassination could be called that. I'd welcome all discussions on pertinent issues related to the assassination.  And sure, some angles of the assassination I'd believe have been largely discussed but I don't speak for all people. 

This forum serves as a databank too, I may not be interested in one topic today but I might be in six months, hence, I can search the forum for any issue.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Richard Rubio on May 08, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
Colin Crow snapped at me for no reason and insulted me, rude response. All he/she offers are obscure late night comedians. I'd not worry about this.  And maybe some sort of software that works on photos.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Royell Storing on May 08, 2020, 09:10:10 PM

  The stuff about a shot coming from the picket fence is 1 thing, but I also find the dicta belt interesting due to the Time Line also applied to the DPD Cop/"open mic".
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 15, 2023, 01:38:40 AM
If I may, I refer all to this article published on Dale Myers' website, I put Don Thomas' theory to rest, and not only did Dale publish this article, Vincent Bugliosi published a piece I submitted to him (and broke the story) in Reclaiming History in 2007, in the End Notes, which are a part of the CD-Rom included in the book. The Chapter titled "Other Investigations" under "Acoustics".  Scroll up to find the beginning of the acoustics chapter to read(even though the entire section on the acoustics is not available within this link to Google Books) I am providing links to both the book and my piece.   I clearly point out that Thomas' claim that there is a segment of "crosstalk" just 3 seconds before the first BBN "gunshot" is false, and a desperate attempt to keep the acoustics experts' findings alive fails largely.
I also put the theory of there having been a "carillon bell" recorded on the Dictabelt recording to rest. 

 https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/07/of-crosstalk-and-bells-rebuttal-to-don.html


 https://books.google.com/books?id=q1VJAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT2453&lpg=PT2453&dq=Reclaiming+History+Vincent+Bugliosi%2BSteve+Barber+acoustics&source=bl&ots=6BU8W1UGrh&sig=ACfU3U3xUWWIaK4utjyPkPRY8sKNHJOtoQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6iKm56aHpAhWBGM0KHeE8BikQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Reclaiming%20History%20Vincent%20Bugliosi%2BSteve%20Barber%20acoustics&f=false
This appears to be the first proper mention of dictabelt stuff.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Richard Smith on November 15, 2023, 02:39:49 PM
Well, it appears no CT is impressed with the Dictabelt acoustic evidence either. At least no one has made any posts claiming the acoustic evidence is anything but a ?dead horse?. Perhaps no CT wishes to debate Steve Barber on the issue.

The contrarian/CTer mind is a bizarre thing to behold.  They ask for the "evidence" but when given evidence they dismiss it as the product of bias while providing no substantive rebuttal.   An endless circle of lunacy.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Steve Barber on November 16, 2023, 03:31:07 PM
The contrarian/CTer mind is a bizarre thing to behold.  They ask for the "evidence" but when given evidence they dismiss it as the product of bias while providing no substantive rebuttal.   An endless circle of lunacy.

 Slowly-ever so slowly--people are discovering the truth in what you say, Richard.  When people start claiming this or that police officer isn't really a police officer, and that J.D. Tippit was a stand infor President Kennedy, that Jackie Kennedy, Bill Greer, or John Connally shot JFK, and so on, you know that insanity has reared its hideous head regarding this topic.  It's no wonder people like Vincent Bugliosi referred to conspiracy buffs as "Kooks".  Most of the people around the world caliming conspiracy have never read the Warren Report or the 26 volumes of evidence, yet they think they know everything they know based on this or that book, movie, video, etc.  It doesn't work that way, and they know it. 
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Richard Smith on November 16, 2023, 07:53:27 PM
Slowly-ever so slowly--people are discovering the truth in what you say, Richard.  When people start claiming this or that police officer isn't really a police officer, and that J.D. Tippit was a stand infor President Kennedy, that Jackie Kennedy, Bill Greer, or John Connally shot JFK, and so on, you know that insanity has reared its hideous head regarding this topic.  It's no wonder people like Vincent Bugliosi referred to conspiracy buffs as "Kooks".  Most of the people around the world caliming conspiracy have never read the Warren Report or the 26 volumes of evidence, yet they think they know everything they know based on this or that book, movie, video, etc.  It doesn't work that way, and they know it.

It's clear that some folks want or even need there to be a conspiracy.  That is as fascinating as the case itself.  Is it just more interesting to believe in a world with JFK conspirators, ghosts and UFOs than not?  Are some folks frightened to accept that many important events are just random acts beyond the control of even the most powerful people?  They need to believe someone is always in behind these events rather than accepting powerlessness.  Some here are plainly attention seekers who garner attention by taking positions contrary to the facts.  Ironically, not much different from Oswald himself.  I do wonder how many CTers are true believers and how many would be as surprised as anyone if it turned out that their theories had any validity. 
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 16, 2023, 09:27:21 PM
It's clear that some folks want or even need there to be a conspiracy.  That is as fascinating as the case itself.  Is it just more interesting to believe in a world with JFK conspirators, ghosts and UFOs than not?  Are some folks frightened to accept that many important events are just random acts beyond the control of even the most powerful people?  They need to believe someone is always in behind these events rather than accepting powerlessness.  Some here are plainly attention seekers who garner attention by taking positions contrary to the facts.  Ironically, not much different from Oswald himself.  I do wonder how many CTers are true believers and how many would be as surprised as anyone if it turned out that their theories had any validity.
How many Christians Muslims Jews etc say they believe in a god? How many actually  do?
How many say they are CTers? How many actually are.
Or, worse, what about the LNers?

Ditto for atheists.
Atheists believe Hickey fired the headshot. About 27% of members a while back i did read. All have left now (dont blame them), xept for lil ol me.

A university should do a poll/questionaire about this stuff.
And we need some more words -- insanity duznt do the trick no more.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 18, 2023, 03:44:43 AM
The dictabelt has zero shots, just some impulses, not shots.
And it was made at least one minute after the headshot at Z313.

Zapruder Film with Dictabelt Recording 1 Drew Techner 14.9K subscribers Share Clip Save 37,165 views  Oct 18, 2016
In this video, I combined the Zapruder film (restored with missing frames Z208 - Z212) and the dictabelt recording of Dallas Police Channel 1 as released on a flexi disc in the July 1979 issue of Gallery magazine that I transferred. In 1979, the Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives determined at least four rifle shots were fired in Dealey Plaza during the assassination. The Committee came up with two scenarios for these four shots as they related to the Zapruder film. In this version, President Kennedy's fatal head wound was from the FOURTH shot. The shots (or sound impulses on the dictabelt tape) correspond with Zapruder frames as follows:
1st shot = Z157 - Z161 TSBD
2nd shot = Z188 - Z191 TSBD
3rd shot = Z295 - Z296 Grassy Knoll
4th shot = Z312 TSBD

In each version, the Zapruder film is played twice; First with the sound of audible gunshots superimposed and then with no sound effects and only the impulses of gunshots on the dictabelt.

Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 20, 2023, 12:03:08 AM
Assassination of John F. Kennedy -- Dictabelt Channel 1 Audio UVA Center for Politics    6.07K subscribers
 Share  Download Clip   25K views 10 years ago
Audio of Dallas Police Department's Dictabelt Channel 1 captured on Nov. 22, 1963, the day President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. For a transcript, you can follow time markers at this link (starting around 10 minute mark, page 16): http://www.thekennedyhalfcentury.com/...
.
...more 197 Comments   Sort by

@traikman  6 years ago (edited)
How does one ID the motorcycle officer #38 (or is it 30?) at 11:40 calling in to warn HQ about the crowds walking along Stemmons Freeway "across from the Marriott Hotel", which was/still is across from the Trade Mart?
It seems pretty clear that it's HIS mic that is stuck open, as the jamming begins with his call and continues until after the shooting.

Why else would we hear the sounds of the sirens approaching as opposed to travelling with him? He's parked over by the Trade Mart and records the sound of the limo speeding past to Parkland. Do we know who this officer was?

Reply 6 replies   @dustyflair   6 years ago
Afterthat the recording becomeschannel 2 according to the op

Reply     @DarkLight753   6 years ago
38 was the callsign of Patrolman F. Woodrow.

Reply @traikman 6 years ago
Excellent, thank you. But from where does one get that information?

Reply @DarkLight753   6 years ago
No probs. I've got copies of the Dallas Police Department files and they contain the transcript of the broadcasts, along with names next to the callsign numbers. '1' was Chief Curry, 'Dallas 1' was Sheriff Bill Decker and '78' as you may know was J.D Tippit. I've got all the names and their callsigns. '300' was Captain J.W Fritz who did the interviews with Oswald.
3
Reply   @roya.cathcartjr.5042
4 years ago
Darklight 753, who was Unit Assignment #56? Unit #56 had transmitted prior to Unit #38 who had the microphone malfunction and Dispatch tried to reach Unit #56 and inquired in the units whereabouts with other units. As a former police officer I find it odd that an officer vanished and can't be reached prior to the shooting. A conspiracy theorist would suspect Unit #56 was involved whereas I would suspect that the Unit may have falsely called in a traffic or pedestrian stop to be a spectator of the motorcade.

Reply    @apointofinterest8574    1 month ago
 @roya.cathcartjr.5042  Those who labor under a pre-conceived conclusion (of conspiracy) tend to find a whole lot of things "odd" These alleged oddities help to justify the erroneous conclusion.

Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 20, 2023, 01:32:51 AM
@350mcn @350mcn 10 years ago
everything  seemed  fine  up  until  time  of  shooting,then  the  trouble began

Reply 1 reply @davidmoser3535 @davidmoser3535 2 years ago
that makes sense donnie

Reply @mtdouthit1291 @mtdouthit1291 1 year ago
13:57 the shots happen 3 seconds after this officer says “I’ll check it”

Reply @frankho99 @frankho99 1 year ago (edited)
The shots start at 15:35 and end at 15:41

Reply 3 replies @mtdouthit1291 @mtdouthit1291 1 year ago
NO, the shots happen 3 seconds after the officer at 13:57 says “I’ll check it”

Reply @bkhaskins123 @bkhaskins123 1 year ago
The sirens start immediately after 15:41. That's a little less less two minutes after 13:57

Reply  @fifiwoof1969 @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
 @bkhaskins123  the sirens are audible on the recording at that time, doesn't mean it started the, just means it's near enough to the open microphone to be captured by said microphone.

Reply @dustyflair @dustyflair 6 years ago
20:00 mins in or so all the chief, who is very very very very calm, is clearing the way for an ambulance? Huh? I thought the pres was shot in and taken to the hospital in the limo...wtf are they talking about and why is everyone so calm when the president has just been shot.

Reply  5 replies @michaelbarnhart2593 @michaelbarnhart2593 6 years ago
That is why they are police.

Reply @one2micreview846 @one2micreview846 3 years ago
Ambulance is obviously a code name for something else

Reply @davidmoser3535 @davidmoser3535 2 years ago
 @one2micreview846  BS

Reply @one2micreview846 @one2micreview846 2 year s ago
David Moser believe what u like pal

Reply @porkyfedwell @porkyfedwell 3 months ago
They didn't know how he was being transported. Probably the ambulance for Tipit
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 20, 2023, 01:54:03 AM
Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
Sounds like motorcycle microphone becomes stuck open from 11:10ish onwards.

Reply 14 replies @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
Until 17:38ish

Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
STRAIGHT after sirens can be heard.

Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
27:40-28:24 ish. Broadcast of description of suspect in shooting at Houston and Elm - long before Brennan gave his description. Who provided that description that was broadcast at about 12:44pm.

Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
30:54-31:08 is same description - time was 12:48pm.

Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
Call for #78 (Tippit) at 44:12 - no reply

Reply @fifiwoof1969 10 months ago
49:10 last description broadcast before Tippit shooting reported.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 20, 2023, 04:12:09 AM
The sirens can be heard approaching starting at dictabelt-16:08.   Sirens end at d16:48.
The open mike was across the road from the trade mart, so, the jfklimo got there at say d16:12.
The shots ended at say 60 seconds before d13:57 (not 3 seconds after d13:57), ie at d12:57.
So, Oswald's shot-1 would have been at say d12:45 (ie 0:12 before the last shot).
So, the JFK limo got to near the trade mart say  3:27 after shot-1 (ie d16:12 minus d12:45).
This 3:27 includes say 0: 30 stoppage time on the Stemmons onramp (according to Brown & Hoffman).
So, it took the JFK limo 2:57 of travel time (from shot-1 to trade mart).

I wonder how far it is from Dealey to trade mart.
12:31:03 This is at Z312 according to Select Committee (ie the last shot).
12:30:51  This is Oswald's shot-1, if u deduct 0:12 from Z312 (ie if first shot to last shot is 12 sec).
12:36:00  JFK limo gets to Parkland hozzie (needs checking).
That’s 4:09. Deduct 0:30 of stoppage gives 3:39 of travel time overall (from shot-1 to Parkland).
Deduct  2:57 tells us that the JFK limo took  0:42 to get from trade mart to hozzie.

That duznt work. My estimate off a map says that trade mart to Parkland is half the distance of Dealey Plaza to trade mart, so, looked at simply, the time should be in the ratio 1 to 2, not 0:42 to 2:57.
If 1 to 2 then it should be 01:13 to 02:26 based on just the distances (& based on a total of 3:39 of travel time from shot-1 to Parkland).
In other words the above timings seem to suggest that the motorcade stopped for much more than 30 seconds (on the Stemmons onramp).
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 20, 2023, 04:33:54 AM
Here is what i wrote about the motorcade stopping, from another thread.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2886.msg146876.html#msg146876

............ I am thinking that the only possibly helpful bit of the whole Hoffman saga is his mention that Queen Mary stopped, & turned its warning lights off, ie turned its siren off. Hoffman would see that the lights were turned off, but being deaf would not know that the siren was turned off. So, i smell some truth here. Hoffman concocted most of his sad story by reading articles over a number of years. But, was there ever anything written about the Queen Mary stopping on the onramp? – i don’t think so. So, i think that Hoffman saw something with his own eyes. Being deaf he would not have been able to eavesdrop on (at least 6) gawkers talking amongst themselves near Hoffman's Lookout on the overpass (plus say  60 gawkers in the 3 car queues blocked at the rail bridge).

Earle Brown on the rail bridge said that the "whole motorcade" stopped on the on-ramp (access ramp) for praps 30 seconds.
The "whole motorcade" would have been (1) JFK limo, (2) Curry in lead car, (3) Queen Mary, (4) VP limo, & praps (5) the VP follow-up car with SS agents, & praps later (6) a patrol bike (if it caught up during the stoppage).
Here above i assume that (2) the lead car has a little earlier cut in between the JFK limo & Queen Mary.

Problem-1.  Hoffman "said" (in his book i think) that when the Queen Mary was below him the JFK limo had already passed the rail bridge (ie the JFK limo was over 100 yd ahead of Queen Mary). Or, praps Hoffman meant that when the Queen Mary stopped the JFK limo kept going & therefore was soon a long way ahead. In any case Hoffman's version of the stoppage is not the same as Brown's version (Brown said that the whole motorcade stopped).

Problem-2.  Hoffman duznt mention the lead car, nor the VP limo & its SS follow-up car. Or praps he duz mention them in his book (i haven’t redd his book).

I don’t remember patrolman Murphy on the overpass over the onramp ever mentioning that the lead car cut in front of Queen Mary before Queen Mary reached the eastern side of the overpass where Murphy was standing (no big deal).  Murphy (after Queen Mary had passed under him) probly ran 24 yd over to the western side of the overpass in say 7 sec to catch another glimpse of the JFK limo.
Problem-3.  Had the motorcade stopped (near say Hoffman's Lookout) then Murphy (after he ran over to the western barrier) would have had time for a good view looking down on the confusion. But Murphy never mentions running over, & duznt mention any such stoppage & confusion.

How would a stoppage look?  Praps the lead car pulled up next to the JFK limo, & praps Curry said follow us to the hospital,  & praps then the lead car took the lead again (ie it had been in the lead when it entered the triple underpass). The onramp is wide enuff for the lead car to pass the JFK limo, & in any case the left kerb has a semi-mountable profile that accommodates passing.

So, i reckon that Hoffman was indeed somewhere on the overpass next to the onramp, & saw Queen Mary (probly already) stopped, & saw Queen Mary turn its warning lights off. But Hoffman forgot about other details. I doubt that Hickey pointed the AR15 at Hoffman. I doubt that Hoffman ran towards Brown waving his arms. I doubt that Hoffman made an early exit in his Falcon, etc.

SSA Hill is still alive. Someone should ask him whether the motorcade stopped on the onramp. However, i suspect that such a stoppage would have been hushed up – koz it would have been yet another failure of the SS (say Failure-4 of 10), ie not knowing how to get to the nearest emergency hospital.

A motorcade stoppage on the onramp would do little to help our understanding of what happened in Dealey Plaza re the jfk shots (ie the attempted assassination by Oswald & the accidental homicide by Hickey).
But the existence of the stoppage might help our understanding of ….
(1)  the ensuing coverup of the accidental homicide, &
(2) the utter litany of failures re the facts & factoids, &
(3) the stupidity of many researchers & supposed experts (ie on this forum & other forums), &
(4) the ongoing hysteria of dullards with broken BS-meters arguing in ever increasing circles re their favorit dogma re the first shot & a magic bullet & a big hole in the back of the head & a shot from the front & a shooter at the paling fence etc.
Title: Re: New Article by Steve Barber on the Dictabelt Tape
Post by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 21, 2023, 06:43:17 AM
The following info re the motorcade stopping on the Stemmons onramp is from the www & forums.
DPD Officer Earle Brown, on the railway overpass above Stemmons, told Earl Golz in March 1980 that he saw the limo and 4 other cars stop on the Stemmons on-ramp for at least 30 secs.
Brown later repeated his story for Gary Mack.
Officer Doug Jackson told Mack in 1981 that he and Chaney raced after the lead car, caught up with it after about 30 secs, and Chaney spoke through the window to Curry.
Curry told another researcher in 1979 that Chaney caught up with him as they began climbing the Stemmons on-ramp.
Curry told Mack that he slowed down in order to find out if anyone had been hit, as he was unaware that anyone had been hit until Chaney told him.
He also said he then had to tell the limousine driver, Secret Service agent Bill Greer, how to get to Parkland Hospital, before issuing “Go to hospital” order.
Curry told the Warren Commission that he did not transmit on Channel 2 until after he spoke to Motorcycle Officer Jim Chaney.
DPD Officer Courson said the lead car had slowed sufficiently for him to catch it on the Stemmons access road, and Courson was 100-120 feet behind McLain in the motorcade, and McLain was himself about 140 feet behind the Presidential limo when the shots were fired. Courson was approx. 80 yds behind JFK at Z-313.

So, it makes sense that the JFK limo stopped for at least 30 sec on the onramp,
to get directions from the SSA agents on Queen Mary, which also stopped (probably side by side).

Both limos turned off their flashing lights & sirens so that they could converse (Hoffman).
Using their radios would have been quicker, but would have been public & embarrassing.
Why did Curry (in the lead car) stop on the onramp & ask Officer Chaney if anyone had been hurt?
Curry could have driven up to the rear of the 2 limos & asked them directly.
But i suppose that Curry did not suspect that JFK & Connally had been shot, Curry was probly only worried about the general public etc getting shot.
JFK & Connally ducking down out of sight was of no concern.
Anyhow, it appears that the guys in Queen Mary were no wiser re the best way to get to Parklands.
So, Greer & Kellerman must have hollered to Curry & Co when the lead car finally reached the limos.
Curry then probly told Greer to follow the lead car, & the lead car probly took the lead again (Curry was the driver).
And it makes sense that the JFK limo was stopped for at least 30 sec.