JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jake Maxwell on August 11, 2018, 06:08:19 PM

Title: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 11, 2018, 06:08:19 PM
Why does this fellow seem so disinterested in the president passing by?
(https://image.ibb.co/d8SFwU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_1_05_51_PM.png)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Richard Rubio on August 11, 2018, 06:36:41 PM
The hard hat must mean something.  It could mean, he was busy doing some sort of job there. Unless, he was pointed towards the street, maybe he's working on electrical wiring, he'd only know the crowd would start cheering louder as the president came down the street.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 11, 2018, 06:40:37 PM
And this fellow from the Wiegman film... What has his interest behind him...?
(https://image.ibb.co/bM85wU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_1_36_39_PM.png)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Mike Orr on August 11, 2018, 11:29:11 PM
The Hard Hat guy and the guy at the front and the policeman could be looking in the direction of a shot being fired and if you look at John Connally , he looks like he is reacting to a shot ! Also , the motorcycle cop could be looking at JFK after he was shot with the bullet that hit him in the front of his neck which was of course an entry wound to the front of his neck . I can't buy any reasoning for LHO to be looked at as a "Lone Nut" who could not shoot worth a damn. It's time to face the fact that the murder of JFK was a conspiracy in every sense . Once the Warren Commission did it's white-wash on this case , then there were so many lies being told that the conspirators just kept tripping over each other. And unfortunately there are so many who lie these days as they also lied back then .
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 12, 2018, 12:15:50 AM
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The Hard Hat guy and the guy at the front and the policeman could be looking in the direction of a shot being fired and if you look at John Connally , he looks like he is reacting to a shot ! Also , the motorcycle cop could be looking at JFK after he was shot with the bullet that hit him in the front of his neck which was of course an entry wound to the front of his neck . I can't buy any reasoning for LHO to be looked at as a "Lone Nut" who could not shoot worth a damn. It's time to face the fact that the murder of JFK was a conspiracy in every sense . Once the Warren Commission did it's white-wash on this case , then there were so many lies being told that the conspirators just kept tripping over each other. And unfortunately there are so many who lie these days as they also lied back then .
And here's another looking away... What's up?
(https://image.ibb.co/nLzzap/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_7_13_25_PM.png)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Dave Downing on August 12, 2018, 12:38:28 AM
Could they be looking at Lyndon Johnson in the car behind the Queen Mary?
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Mytton on August 12, 2018, 04:10:55 AM
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Why does this fellow seem so disinterested in the president passing by?
(https://image.ibb.co/d8SFwU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_1_05_51_PM.png)

Altgens6 is roughly equal to Zapruder255.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/4n0oel2p7/zap255_altgens6.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Bill Brown on August 12, 2018, 07:33:55 AM
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Why does this fellow seem so disinterested in the president passing by?

I believe the fellow you're talking about (wearing the hard hat) is A.J. Millican.  He and Howard Brennan worked for the Wallace & Beard Plumbing Company.

Do you believe Mr. Millican (if I am correct in my belief that it is Millican) is suspicious for some reason?  There are plenty of other witnesses looking in the same direction as he is, yet you haven't singled them out.  Please explain.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Taylor on August 12, 2018, 11:47:04 AM
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Why does this fellow seem so disinterested in the president passing by?
(https://image.ibb.co/d8SFwU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_1_05_51_PM.png)

Jake, Millican and others appear to be looking in the direction of the DalTex where I believe the real action is occurring.  Millican shows up in other photos with odd postures.  Probably the most important is immediately after the assassination he is one of the first few people to head toward the grassy knoll. If you want me to publish them I will.  He is also odd in that he reported many gunshots in his police report (12-15?).  I'm too lazy to look it up to be exact here, but I also remember that his plumbing company was connected somehow to Republic National Bank, widely regarded by authors as a CIA front, and connected to Bush.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Royell Storing on August 12, 2018, 07:52:44 PM
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Isn't that strange....
the car appears to be much further down Elm in Z255 than A6 in relation to the lane marker near that bit of shadow...

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1838/43994086171_d1fb64d1d7_b.jpg)

        Altgens argued with the WC Attorney concerning his distance from the JFK Limo when he snapped that photo. Altgens believed he was Closer to the Limo based on the shutter speed he had his camera set to.  You claiming the Limo is further down Elm St and Altgens claiming he was closer to the Limo = the same point being made.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Mytton on August 13, 2018, 12:10:11 AM
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Isn't that strange....?
the car appears to be much further down Elm in Z255 than A6 in relation to the lane marker near that bit of shadow...

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1838/43994086171_d1fb64d1d7_b.jpg)

Huh? Red circles? Do you know what you are looking at?

JohnM
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Mytton on August 13, 2018, 04:28:19 AM
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Huh? mr yellow squigglies? :D --do you?

You're not even original, but sucking off everyone else is classic Capasse.

Anyway Einstein, explain what you think you are seeing seeing in the following composite, which btw you cropped and ripped off me and then didn't even give me credit, the shame!

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1838/43994086171_d1fb64d1d7_b.jpg)

JohnM

Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Mytton on August 13, 2018, 09:53:43 PM
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poor mytton can't see the obvious mistake in his own composite
 Thumb1: -- that's classic  --thanx for the pic! --again!

This is what you said.

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Isn't that strange....?
the car appears to be much further down Elm in Z255 than A6 in relation to the lane marker near that bit of shadow...

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1838/43994086171_d1fb64d1d7_b.jpg)

Hahaha, how can frame z255 show the top end of Elm street?

You've been comparing two different Limos! Doh!

JohnM
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Doug Easterly on August 13, 2018, 10:04:02 PM
I think I see a face in the limo's mirror!!  Possibly he's involved?
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Iacoletti on August 13, 2018, 11:03:11 PM
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Anyway Einstein, explain what you think you are seeing seeing in the following composite, which btw you cropped and ripped off me and then didn't even give me credit, the shame!

LOL.  "Mytton" is trying to take credit for a panorama composite that a youtube user called "antdavisonNZ" actually did.

Anyway, the limo position at Z255 is at the far right of that panorama.

Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: John Mytton on August 13, 2018, 11:13:45 PM
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LOL.  "Mytton" is trying to take credit for a panorama composite that a youtube user called "antdavisonNZ" actually did.

Anyway, the limo position at Z255 is at the far right of that panorama.

Quote
LOL.  "Mytton" is trying to take credit for a panorama composite that a youtube user called "antdavisonNZ" actually did.

No, I blended various "antdavisonNZ" frames to make the panorama that covered the required distance and then put in a comparison to Altgens 6, so again you can't see the forest for the trees! LOLOL!

Quote
Anyway, the limo position at Z255 is at the far right of that panorama.

Precisely, so what the heck is Capasse on about?

JohnM

Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Taylor on August 14, 2018, 11:02:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bVkWvKw.png)

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Jake, Millican and others appear to be looking in the direction of the DalTex where I believe the real action is occurring.  Millican shows up in other photos with odd postures.  Probably the most important is immediately after the assassination he is one of the first few people to head toward the grassy knoll. If you want me to publish them I will.  He is also odd in that he reported many gunshots in his police report (12-15?).  I'm too lazy to look it up to be exact here, but I also remember that his plumbing company was connected somehow to Republic National Bank, widely regarded by authors as a CIA front, and connected to Bush.

A. J. Millican and Howard Brennan were fabricating pipe for Republic National Bank that day.  Here is Millican's statement to Sheriff Decker, and I note my error above.  Millican said their were only 8 shots.
file:///F:/Dallas/Documents/History%20Matters%20Archive%20-%20Warren%20Commission%20Hearings,%20Volume%20XIX,%20pg.html (http://file:///F:/Dallas/Documents/History%20Matters%20Archive%20-%20Warren%20Commission%20Hearings,%20Volume%20XIX,%20pg.html)

Ronnie Wayne
February 17, 2015 at 12:02 am
Brennan appears to be credible? ?Crossfire?, Jim Marrs, pg. 26.
?later that evening Brennan was unable to pick Lee Harvey Oswald out of a police lineup. ?it was determined Brennan had poor eyesight, and in fact a close examination of the Zapruder film shows that Brennan was not looking up at the time of the shooting. ?
Furthermore, Brennan?s job foreman, Sandy Speaker told this author
They took [Brennan] off for about three weeks. I don?t know if they were Secret Service or FBI, but they were federal people. He came back a nervous wreck, and within a year his hair had turned snow white. He wouldn?t talk about [the assassination] after that. They made him say what they wanted him to say.?
http://jfkfacts.org/what-did-the-doctor-who-examined-jfks-head-wound-say/ (http://jfkfacts.org/what-did-the-doctor-who-examined-jfks-head-wound-say/)

Sandy Speaker, the supervisor of Warren Commission star witness Howard Brennan, would not discuss the assassination until recently, after getting a phone call from his friend and co-worker A. J. Millican.  Speaker said he got a call from Millican early in 1964.  Millican was almost in tears and told him never to talk about the assassination.  Millican said he had just received an anonymous call threatening not only his life, but the lives of his wife and her sister.  He said the caller told him to warn Speaker to keep his mouth shut.
Recently Speaker told this author:
That call really shook me up because Millican was a former boxing champ of the Pacific fleet.  He was a scrapper, a fighter.  But he was obviously scared to death.  And I still don't understand how they got my name because I was never interviewed by the FBI, the Secret Service, the police or anyone.  They must be pretty powerful to have found out about me.
http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm (http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm)

Let me see if I can give a photo timeline in the first minutes after the assassination:

Here in Willis, Millican is physically reacting to a probable gunshot at Z202.

(https://i.imgur.com/4RdTSKgl.jpg)

Immediately after the assassination Dark Complexion Man DCM calmly communicates with his radio sitting next to Umbrella Man.

(https://i.imgur.com/20asr9jh.jpg)

DCM calmly moves down the sidewalk to the GK stairs.

(https://i.imgur.com/X1bV4XFh.jpg)

DCM continues further west with his radio in his back pocket.

(https://i.imgur.com/j7u3TzOh.jpg)

An unknown woman with a head scarf passes directly in front of Umbrella Man.  DCM continues west with radio visible.

(https://i.imgur.com/TcR1i9Dh.jpg)

Now DCM nears stairway with unknown woman following him.  A.J. Millican now appears following the other two as he passes Umbrella Man.

(https://i.imgur.com/CBD10T4h.jpg)

Unknown woman is now to the left, A.J. Millican follows, Umbrella Man to the right.  Their calm movement down the sidewalk, at near equidistant intervals, could imply a high level of discipline and purpose.  They are not sprinting across the grass in random directions.  Could they be forming some sort of security perimeter? Did Millican lie when he told Sheriff Decker that he went back to work immediately after the shots? His work was in the opposite direction. Who's the unknown woman?

(https://i.imgur.com/6cI6wI1h.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Logan on August 14, 2018, 11:36:36 PM
Another walkie talkie/ radio in Dealey Plaza? Does anybody have a copy of a list of channels that the shooting teams were using? Multiple shooters, multiple spotters and still, they could only get one shot on the bullseye.
These guys sucked.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 15, 2018, 12:37:29 AM
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Another walkie talkie/ radio in Dealey Plaza? Does anybody have a copy of a list of channels that the shooting teams were using? Multiple shooters, multiple spotters and still, they could only get one shot on the bullseye.
These guys sucked.
Yes, it does look like another walkie talkie....
(https://image.ibb.co/ipNwt9/19a46c75fcc2786fb422804be1e030a6.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/f2r36U/Walkie_Talkie_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 15, 2018, 01:09:33 AM
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Why does this fellow seem so disinterested in the president passing by?
(https://image.ibb.co/d8SFwU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_11_at_1_05_51_PM.png)

Hardhat doesn't really act like he's responding to a noise. There are also three black ladies in the picture looking in the same direction as 'Hardhat'... were they identified? A motorcycle cop was [also] sort of looking around. The DCM had been noticed in the pictures with the walkie talkie over 50 years ago. No one cared then either.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 15, 2018, 01:27:40 AM
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Hardhat doesn't really act like he's responding to a noise. There are also three black ladies in the picture looking in the same direction as 'Hardhat'... were they identified? A motorcycle cop was [also] sort of looking around. The DCM had been noticed in the pictures with the walkie talkie over 50 years ago. No one cared then either.
Wow... 50 years ago... Official investigators seem to lack necessary curiosity... and the reason.....
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 15, 2018, 01:47:54 AM
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Official investigators seem to lack ...
Integrity.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on August 15, 2018, 01:56:17 AM
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Integrity.
I think the reason is that they didn't want to draw attention to anything that might cause them to alter the accepted storyline...
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 15, 2018, 04:16:58 AM
Consider this view....
Those people shielding their eyes from the sun-
How could a gunman make any kind of an accurate shot facing into such glare?


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8153/7606052500_2bcd7f5df0_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Taylor on August 15, 2018, 06:16:07 AM
My apologies, the Willis picture I posted was too large and cut Millican out. I've resized it and it shows him physically reacting at Z202.  Later at Z255, the original picture in this thread, he regains his composure, and is looking towards the Dal-Tex. I should have put that one in chronological order as well, but thought it would have been understood.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Taylor on August 15, 2018, 07:54:46 AM
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Another walkie talkie/ radio in Dealey Plaza? Does anybody have a copy of a list of channels that the shooting teams were using? Multiple shooters, multiple spotters and still, they could only get one shot on the bullseye.
These guys sucked.

  Here are two more guys talking on walkie talkies in one photo indicated by red arrows.  Maybe they are talking to each other.  I think they are. The lower shooter is circled in red.  On the third floor, I circled what I used to believe were two more shooters and spotters.  However, I was told that the window was closed. But may it be possible that this appearance was caused by smoke from rifles or Havana victory cigars instead?  Otherwise, the other shooter may be firing from Zapruder's office or higher, which is not shown in this photo. Other photos show several open windows above in the DalTex that could have held excellent SN's.  This is a huge photo, so please scroll around and zoom in and out.  I beg of anyone who responds to this photo not to bring up Lovelady, Oswald or some secretary.  I agree with you, Steve Logan, on at least one thing -  These guys sucked.

(https://i.imgur.com/sKBvGaP.jpg)   
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Steve Taylor on August 19, 2018, 10:12:57 AM
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Another walkie talkie/ radio in Dealey Plaza? Does anybody have a copy of a list of channels that the shooting teams were using? Multiple shooters, multiple spotters and still, they could only get one shot on the bullseye.
These guys sucked.

Here's another walkie talkie for you officer. The photo was taken as the motorcade was still beneath the underpass.  The command post for all these frequencies was either the Dallas Civil Defense Facility or the SS command center at the Sheraton Hotel which was also hosting George H. W. Bush.

Regarding the Civil Defense Center:  An oilman with connections to the Bush family, Crichton was the failed Republican nominee in the 1964 Texas gubernatorial race.  Bush was the failed Senator in 1964.  In his book, Family of Secrets, veteran reporter Russ Baker notes: (sorry for the caps]

IN APRIL 1, 1962, DALLAS CIVIL DEFENSE, WITH CRICHTON HEADING ITS INTELLIGENCE COMPONENT, OPENED AN ELABORATE UNDERGROUND COMMAND POST UNDER THE PATIO OF THE DALLAS HEALTH AND SCIENCE MUSEUM. BECAUSE IT WAS INTENDED FOR ?CONTINUITY-OF-GOVERNMENT? OPERATIONS DURING AN ATTACK, IT WAS FULLY EQUIPPED WITH COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT.  WITH THIS SHELTER IN OPERATION ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963, IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE BASED THERE TO COMMUNICATE WITH POLICE AND OTHER EMERGENCY SERVICES. THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION OR ANY OTHER INVESTIGATIVE BODY OR EVEN JFK ASSASSINATION RESEARCHERS LOOKED INTO THIS FACILITY OR THE POLICE AND ARMY INTELLIGENCE FIGURES ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

No tapes or transcripts of these two facilities have ever been made public.  Yes, these guys sucked!

(https://i.imgur.com/7ZxiW9a.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lmV3n0ph.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4yvTQrs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dlfZqUQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 09, 2019, 03:37:58 AM
Bump... this curious thread.
I was looking again at the Altgens photo in reply #25. There is a guy that is really really tall wearing sunglasses...slide and look between the left shoulder of the SS guy on the Queen Mary and the motorcycle cop [Hargis?] He looks more like a Fed than all the Feds do. Also reply #16--the last picture---slide over between the camera and the press bus--a suit looking just as casual as can be.
How can anyone examining these photos with all the odd characters..guys with hand radios- umbrella and stuff..not suspect there might have been a coup going on?
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Zeon Mason on May 09, 2019, 08:26:15 AM

Greer. the Limo driver, looks back when JFK is hit st Z223 and STILL doesn't get it? he slows the limo down? WTF??  Sees the President slumping and :... oh well, IDK,  lets  just let off the accelerator and slow the car down to almost a stop,  and wait for another 4.8 seconds so the gunman can aim and get a head shot. HUH???

Are we supposed to beleive that SS agents, would be so oblivious to 3 rifle shots. but dont recognize those as shots, spaced EVENLY over 8.5 seconds or longer? It takes Clint Hill to jump off and run to JFK Limo to get Gteer to react FINALLY??  The other SS agents.. they seem totally oblivous even AFTER its quite apparent somebody has been shooting bullets, not "firecrackers"

The vast majority of crowd DOESNT GET IT EITHER??? It take Gloria Cavalry running up and eclaiming "The Shot the President" before the crowd of person at Elm st and in front of TSBD FINALLY GET IT???

This the reason, imo that 3 shots were fired VERY RAPIDLY in less that 5 seconds just at Harold Norman and Lee Bowers have demonstrated their respective video interviews.

 3 shots in 4.5 sec and last 2 shots only 1 sec apart, would explain the confusion, and Greer. because it is NOT a 8.5 or 10 second even spacing of 3 shots but a 1...2.3 rapid fire  , the 3rd shot NOT taking 4.8 seconds from 2nd shot, but so close that Greer could not have reacted any faster.


Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Thomas Graves on May 09, 2019, 09:22:45 AM
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Greer. the Limo driver, looks back when JFK is hit st Z223 and STILL doesn't get it? he slows the limo down? WTF??  Sees the President slumping and :... oh well, IDK,  lets  just let off the accelerator and slow the car down to almost a stop,  and wait for another 4.8 seconds so the gunman can aim and get a head shot. HUH???

Are we supposed to beleive that SS agents, would be so oblivious to 3 rifle shots. but dont recognize those as shots, spaced EVENLY over 8.5 seconds or longer? It takes Clint Hill to jump off and run to JFK Limo to get Gteer to react FINALLY??  The other SS agents.. they seem totally oblivous even AFTER its quite apparent somebody has been shooting bullets, not "firecrackers"

The vast majority of crowd DOESNT GET IT EITHER??? It take Gloria Cavalry running up and eclaiming "The Shot the President" before the crowd of person at Elm st and in front of TSBD FINALLY GET IT???

This the reason, imo that 3 shots were fired VERY RAPIDLY in less that 5 seconds just at Harold Norman and Lee Bowers have demonstrated their respective video interviews.

 3 shots in 4.5 sec and last 2 shots only 1 sec apart, would explain the confusion, and Greer. because it is NOT a 8.5 or 10 second even spacing of 3 shots but a 1...2.3 rapid fire  , the 3rd shot NOT taking 4.8 seconds from 2nd shot, but so close that Greer could not have reacted any faster.

Have you ever considered the possibility that Greer slowed down because he thought the shots were coming from in front of him?
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Organ on May 12, 2019, 04:30:28 PM
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Consider this view....
Those people shielding their eyes from the sun-
How could a gunman make any kind of an accurate shot facing into such glare?


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8153/7606052500_2bcd7f5df0_b.jpg)
 

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/jfkMcIntire1.jpg)

The side of the Depository was in partial shade at 12:30, meaning the sun was relatively south, not southwest.

(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/maps/suncalc/dealey-plaza-suncalc-1230.png)

Sun wasn't shining along the length of Elm Street where the shooting occurred.

(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339152/m1/3/small_res)

Window pane and maybe some shade would have been between the sun and SN shooter.

(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/_/rsrc/1412002542766/misc/myers/secrets/myers-z224-window-view.jpg)

Myers 3D view from the Sniper's Nest showing the shadow fall on the limousine.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Anthony Clayden on May 12, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
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Have you ever considered the possibility that Greer slowed down because he thought the shots were coming from in front of him?

A moving target is almost always harder to hit then a nearly stationary one. Even if the thought the shoots came from the front the obvious action is to accelerate and put in a mild osclilating swerve as you do so, he had the whole road carriage to manevure in.

He was definitely old and slow in reaction time, he was probably tired from working so many shifts on the tour, lastly there is reasonable chance given the habits of the era,  that he was still feeling the effects of alcohol in his system.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Zeon Mason on May 13, 2019, 06:02:24 AM
Not sure if the hard hat man is "disinterested"

It is a curious phenomenon of so FEW persons seemingly not aware at the time of this photo by Altgens at frame Z225, that TWO LOUD shots have been fired already, 1 supposedly earlier than Z223, which could be anywhere between Z170 to up to Z205 by Willis photo reaction to that sound, and the 2nd shot supposedly at Z223.




Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Joe Mannix on May 13, 2019, 02:32:09 PM
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Have you ever considered the possibility that Greer slowed down because he thought the shots were coming from in front of him?

Or to allow SS agents climb on to car?
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jake Maxwell on May 19, 2019, 02:14:25 AM
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Or to allow SS agents climb on to car?

I think Greer stated in one interview that he slowed thinking he had a flat tire (or backfire... I think)... and I think I recall that he also apologized to Jackie for some reason...
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Zeon Mason on May 19, 2019, 08:02:18 AM
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Or to allow SS agents climb on to car?

Apparently either about 95% of the crowd and all the SS agents, including Clint Hill, either did not hear the 1st shot fired much earlier than Z223 or they thought it was a firecracker and did not react to that by turning their heads.

No SS agents other than Hickey can be seen in Z film having turned heads to Face the TSBD, from beginning of Z film up to approx.. Z207 frame, when they are lost out of camera view.

 Governor Connally, stated that the 1st loud noise he heard, he DID recognize as a rifle shot. That's not a shot at Z170, because Connally did not attempt to turn around to look at JFK until after Z223 shot.

Charles Brehm, a WW2 combat veteran, standing right near the curb of elm st as JFK limo went past, recognized ALL 3 noises he heard, as rifle shots. If Brehm has heard a 1st shot at Z170, then a 2nd shot at Z223 and is also seeing the President slump, WHY is this WW2 combat veteran not reacting, other than seeming to keep clapping his hands? 2 other men in background behind Brehm seem also not to be aware 2 rifle shots have been fired, as the JFK limo goes past Brehm.

SS Agent George Hickey, the rear guard SS agent in followup car:

The motorcade then left the airport and proceeded along the parade route. Just prior to the shooting the Presidential car turned left at the intersection and started down an incline toward an underpass followed by 679X. After a very short distance I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker. It appeared to come from the right and rear and seemed to me to be at ground level. I stood up and looked to my right and rear in an attempt to identify it. Nothing caught my attention except people shouting and cheering. A disturbance in 679X caused me to look forward toward the President's car. Perhaps 2 or 3 seconds elapsed from the time I looked to the rear and then looked at the President. He was slumped forward and to his left, and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked. At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn't seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again. - Possibly four or five seconds elapsed from the time of the first report and the last.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Why at Z255 frame the Altgens 6 photo, are MOST of the crowd acting as though they have NOT heard 2 rifles shots?  thus only about 5% have turned their heads? This is the point in time where Clint Hill has just heard what he thought was the FIRST shot, which he thought was a firecracker. He has turned his head, and he now sees JFK has slumped, an Hill is just about to step off the followup car.

Add to this, that the closest ear witness, Harold Norman, has consistently in every one of his recorded interviews, replicated the spacing of the shots in about 4 seconds, it would appear that the answer for Greer's seeming lack of reaction for 4.8 seconds is because there WAS NOT A 4,8 second period of "silence".

If Norman is correct, and Hill's recollection if correct, and Governor Connally is correct, 3 shots were fired, in a span of time of about 4.8 seconds, beginning with 1at shot at Z223, then a missed shot following that, around Z285, then the head shot, Z313, about 1 sec after that.

Add that at 2/3rd of earwitness heard the spacing 1....2..3 and many in a space of 5 seconds or less, just as Harold Norman, one in particular, Lee Bowers , the hand rapping on the desk all 3 shots less than 5 seconds, the last too rapping, in arppox 1 sec apart. Coincidence?

 IF these witnesses are correct, and all 3 shots were fired in span of 5 seconds or less, THEN Greer IS reacting approximately as would be expected. He heard the 1st shot at Z223, and like everyone else, thought it was a firecracker. . Greer looked back, just as JFK was slumping. Greer missed seeing JFK actually hit. He only saw a JFK still upright mostly, but with his head lowered.  Greer took his foot off the accelerator here, not sure what had happened. Then in comes a shot at Z285. Greer looks forward, sees a crack in the windshield. He looks back again, at JFK, and the 3rd shot, the head shot, is fired,  1 sec later at Z313.  Greer now hits the accelerator pedal, reacting, and almost oblivious to Clint Hill about to jump on the limo.

 
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Organ on May 19, 2019, 02:49:51 PM
(http://i58.tinypic.com/rcsuh3.jpg)  (http://i62.tinypic.com/2kosck.jpg)  (http://i61.tinypic.com/29gcti1.jpg)  (http://i61.tinypic.com/1zdab86.jpg)
Insets: Ready - Hickey - Gov. Connally - Mrs. Kennedy (all turn from their left to their right)

Far right: Rosemary Willis, the little girl running, said she stopped when she heard the first shot. She begins slowing in the Z160s.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Royell Storing on May 19, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/rcsuh3.jpg)  (http://i62.tinypic.com/2kosck.jpg)  (http://i61.tinypic.com/29gcti1.jpg)  (http://i61.tinypic.com/1zdab86.jpg)
Insets: Ready - Hickey - Gov. Connally - Mrs. Kennedy (all turn from their left to their right)

Far right: Rosemary Willis, the little girl running, said she stopped when she heard the first shot. She begins slowing in the Z160s.

     Many questions surround SA Hickey including WHY & WHAT is causing him to be Seated at a Much Higher Level than everyone else inside the Queen Mary? He also was at this elevated seating position as the Queen Mary came down Houston St and he was Not sitting atop the back seat/trunk. Hickey's elevated position places his head Above the windshield sun visors which are in an UP position = higher than the front windshield. If the Queen Mary were a hard top car, Hickey's head would be Higher than the top of the vehicle. Another point of reference is the SS Agents shoulders Standing on top of the running board to Hickey's immediate left. Hickey's head is at about the same level as these agents shoulders = Extremely High vs everyone seated inside the vehicle. Hickey's elevated position would have made it extremely awkward/difficult for him to then bend all the way down to the floorboard of the Queen Mary and pick up the Locked-N-Loaded AR-15 Rifle which was positioned there inside the Queen Mary by the SS. Hickey then needing to Quickly straighten back up/Stand Up inside the confines of the vehicle while clutching the Locked-And-Loaded AR-15 Rifle would have likewise been an extremely Awkward maneuver being simultaneously attempted while under enemy fire. The AR-15 possibly having been discharged during Hickey going through all of this is very possible. Also, the inexperience of SA Hickey can Not be Overstated. Though trained as all SS Agents are, Hickey was normally assigned to Wash-N-Wax /"Detail" the Queen Mary and the JFK Limo. He would not be confused with James Bond.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 19, 2019, 07:01:11 PM
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  The side of the Depository was in partial shade at 12:30, meaning the sun was relatively south, not southwest. Sun wasn't shining along the length of Elm Street where the shooting occurred.
So... people are shielding their eyes for no reason at all. 
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Organ on May 19, 2019, 10:21:26 PM
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So... people are shielding their eyes for no reason at all.

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Altgens6Corbisr_Crop.jpg)

Seems most of the eye-shielding people are looking towards the south. Nearly all those in the Altgens photo looking to the southwest, as the Sniper's Nest gunman would have been, are facing away from the sun and not shielding their eyes.

So when you wrote "How could a gunman make any kind of an accurate shot facing into such glare?" you either didn't think about the angle of the sun and it's relationship to the limousine position on Elm, or you think a gunman was aiming at the motorcade down Houston Street or towards the reflecting pool.

A teachable moment if you want to grasp it.  ::)
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Royell Storing on May 20, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Altgens6Corbisr_Crop.jpg)

Seems most of the eye-shielding people are looking towards the south. Nearly all those in the Altgens photo looking to the southwest, as the Sniper's Nest gunman would have been, are facing away from the sun and not shielding their eyes.

So when you wrote "How could a gunman make any kind of an accurate shot facing into such glare?" you either didn't think about the angle of the sun and it's relationship to the limousine position on Elm, or you think a gunman was aiming at the motorcade down Houston Street or towards the reflecting pool.

A teachable moment if you want to grasp it.  ::)

           If you buy into the way the boxes were set up inside the sniper's nest then Oswald would have been seated a few feet Back from the window. I would doubt the Sun would be a factor if he were seated back from the window. A difficult scenario to envision is how if Oswald was Seated a few feet Back from the window he was able to Fire DOWNWARD at a sharp angle with the 1st alleged shot. 
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 20, 2019, 11:54:01 PM
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Seems most of the eye-shielding people are looking towards the south. Nearly all those in the Altgens photo looking to the southwest, as the Sniper's Nest gunman would have been, are facing away from the sun and not shielding their eyes.
So when you wrote "How could a gunman make any kind of an accurate shot facing into such glare?" you either didn't think about the angle of the sun and it's relationship to the limousine position on Elm, or you think a gunman was aiming at the motorcade down Houston Street or towards the reflecting pool. A teachable moment if you want to grasp it.
Teachable? Meaning- just look at a map and never mind a photograph? Facing away from the sun? The person in the Altgens photo-- on the front steps apparently shielding his eyes with both hands [between Lovelady and the SS agents on the right side of their car]..  is not looking at the motorcade? 
The shadow from the running man illustrates the direction of the sun ...directly towards the suspected window--
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/Couch/normal_20160719-210542.JPG)
   
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Organ on May 21, 2019, 12:11:07 AM
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           If you buy into the way the boxes were set up inside the sniper's nest then Oswald would have been seated a few feet Back from the window. I would doubt the Sun would be a factor if he were seated back from the window. A difficult scenario to envision is how if Oswald was Seated a few feet Back from the window he was able to Fire DOWNWARD at a sharp angle with the 1st alleged shot.

(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/firstshot/WCR-Exh888.jpg) 

(https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/32600/32685/c-angle27_32685_lg.gif)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z160
  (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/hsca/canning/sbt/f145_sbtslope.gif)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z190 (HSCA)
  (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/hsca/canning/reworked/wcr-sbtslope.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z223-25
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Organ on May 21, 2019, 12:47:10 AM
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Teachable? Meaning- just look at a map and never mind a photograph? Facing away from the sun? The person in the Altgens photo-- on the front steps apparently shielding his eyes with both hands [between Lovelady and the SS agents on the right side of their car]..  is not looking at the motorcade?

Maybe he had his hands up earlier when the limousine went by and figured he'll turn back and see who else was in the motorcade. So he left his hands in place for the hell of it. Maybe the sun felt good on his forearms.

Quote
 
The shadow from the running man illustrates the direction of the sun ...directly towards the suspected window--
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/Couch/normal_20160719-210542.JPG)
   

Wrong. The sun doesn't shine directly up Elm Street until about 2:30.

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/IMAGE_2.jpg)

The picture above was taken just after the shooting, and the shadows project across Elm, not up Elm and into the SN windows.

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_AP6311220989Crop1.jpg)

If the sun was shining straight up Elm and into the SN, wouldn't the shadow on the limousine be projecting backwards from Altgens? Instead the car's shadow projects across Elm.

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_D-322.jpg)  (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Rickerby~0.jpg)

Just picture after picture of shadows projecting across Elm at about the time of the shooting.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 21, 2019, 12:50:07 AM
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           If you buy into the way the boxes were set up inside the sniper's nest then Oswald would have been seated a few feet Back from the window. I would doubt the Sun would be a factor if he were seated back from the window. A difficult scenario to envision is how if Oswald was Seated a few feet Back from the window he was able to Fire DOWNWARD at a sharp angle with the 1st alleged shot.
Lets take another look..
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xAAoxe8RDZ8/UqPdAlJqiZI/AAAAAAAAxX4/suutC3ecTxU/s1600/TSBD-Sixth-Floor-Snipers-Nest.jpg)

It was reported by witnesses that a man was standing at that spot. Well maybe so. Look at the shadows on the left side of the sill and under the box. Looks contrived/staged to me. I believe it was...at a different time of day.
What does CE 887 prove?...that with all the boxes out of the way, you can get a good angle down to the street?

They even got a guy that looks like Oswald for added effect.
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on May 21, 2019, 12:54:15 AM
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Maybe he had his hands up earlier when the limousine went by and figured he'll turn back and see who else was in the motorcade. So he left his hands in place for the hell of it. Maybe the sun felt good on his forearms.
"For the hell of it"? Who are you trying to convince?
 
Title: Re: Who is this fellow... and why does he look away from the president?
Post by: Royell Storing on May 21, 2019, 05:09:52 AM
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(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/firstshot/WCR-Exh888.jpg) 

(https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/32600/32685/c-angle27_32685_lg.gif)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z160
  (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/hsca/canning/sbt/f145_sbtslope.gif)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z190 (HSCA)
  (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/hsca/canning/reworked/wcr-sbtslope.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Z223-25

      Now show me where a Tripod which was allegedly attached to the Carcano was recovered inside the TSBD. This is the kind of Hokum that J Edgar and The Boys repeatedly threw out there during the construction of the Warren Report. Same goes for the reconstruction they filmed of Oswald alleging traveling from the snipers nest down to the 2nd floor lunch room. Unabashed  BS: