CTs: what do you consider to be the best evidence of another shooter in Dealey Plaza, and why do you feel it is proof of this?This fellow looking through a scope from the Mary Moorman polaroid pic...
This fellow looking through a scope from the Mary Moorman polaroid pic...Amazing (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil3.png)It's Phil Lynott
(https://image.ibb.co/mtsaBU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_10_at_11_13_57_AM.png)
| (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil.jpg) | (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil2.jpg) |
CTs: what do you consider to be the best evidence of another shooter in Dealey Plaza, and why do you feel it is proof of this?
This fellow looking through a scope from the Mary Moorman polaroid pic...
(https://image.ibb.co/mtsaBU/Screen_Shot_2018_08_10_at_11_13_57_AM.png)
Amazing (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil3.png)It's Phil LynottNo... but maybe James Files?
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil.jpg) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Phil2.jpg)
CTs: what do you consider to be the best evidence of another shooter in Dealey Plaza, and why do you feel it is proof of this?
JFK is thrown forward in less than a 1/2 second from a shot to the back. An impossibility if the Carcano is
the only weapon used in the assassination
(http://www.jfkennedy.it/Immagini/Leprovedelcomplotto/nelfilmdiZapruder/backhit.gif)
(http://www.jfkennedy.it/Immagini/Leprovedelcomplotto/nelfilmdiZapruder/Z229-235.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/WGL0pm2h.jpg)
I don't know how to make this photo appear larger on this site. However when you see it full size, it's very clear that this is a rifle and not an arm as some have conjectured. On the 2d floor of the DalTex, the suspect has a white baseball cap and is wearing glasses.
1. Dozens of witnesses say the last two sounds were BANG-BANG
2. In the Zapruder film, we can see Gov Connally bent over very rapidly a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head
3. Gov. Connally said in many interviews that the blow to his back was enough force to bend him over. Connally is not BENT over at any time in the Zapruder film until a split second after JFK is shot in the head.
4, No blood can be seen on Connally's shirt or right sleeve even seconds after the US gov't says he was shot in the back. WHY is there NO blood anywhere on the front of Connally's white shirt? The answer is easy, Connally was NOT shot in the back until a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head.
5 When you look at frame 267, as mentioned NO BLOOD can be seen on Connally's white shirt. Look at any Zapruder frame before JFK is shot in the head and NO blood will be found on Connally's shirt. HOW THAT POSSIBLE? Nellie said John had a hole in his chest about the size of a baseball. The main point for #5 is, HOW IN THE WORLD did John Connally turn around like he is seen in #267 and he (allegedly) has a serious chest exit wound?
(https://i.imgur.com/WGL0pm2h.jpg)
I don't know how to make this photo appear larger on this site. However when you see it full size, it's very clear that this is a rifle and not an arm as some have conjectured. On the 2d floor of the DalTex, the suspect has a white baseball cap and is wearing glasses.
JFK is thrown forward in less than a 1/2 second from a shot to the back. An impossibility if the Carcano is
the only weapon used in the assassination
(http://www.jfkennedy.it/Immagini/Leprovedelcomplotto/nelfilmdiZapruder/backhit.gif)
(http://www.jfkennedy.it/Immagini/Leprovedelcomplotto/nelfilmdiZapruder/Z229-235.gif)
--------------------
The HSCA gave considerable weight to the conclusion another gunman fired from the grassy knoll.
House Select Committee on Assassinations Final Report
Current Section: (d) Witness testimony on the shots
"An analysis by the committee of the statements of witnesses in Dealy Plaza on November 22, 1963, moreover, showed that about 44 percent were not able to form an opinion about the origin of the shots, attesting to the ambiguity showed in the August 1978 experiment. Seventy percent of the witnesses in 1963 who had an opinion as to the origin said it was either the book depository or the grassy knoll. Those witnesses who thought the shots originated from the grassy knoll represented 30 percent of those who chose between the knoll and book depository and 21 percent of those who made a decision as to origin. Since most of the shots fired on November 22, 1963 (three out of four, the committee determined) came from the book depository, the fact that so many witnesses thought they heard shots from
the knoll lent additional weight to a conclusion that a shot came from there."
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=800&relPageId=120
When you look at JFK BEFORE he is hidden behind the Stemmon's sign, he has his right hand raised almost to the top of his head. When he emerges from behind the sign he has quickly lowered his right hand towards his throat and quickly raised his left hand up from his lap towards his throat.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/8l4wl1typ/ZAP_RESPONSE_TO_SHOT_JFK200-225.jpg)
During that same interval, Connally is looking to his right at frame 193, frame 200 and frame 224. Connally does NOT appear to make any reaction to a shot until (starting at) frame 224.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/chi8h5p9t/ZAP_RESPONSE_TO_SHOT_Con195-200-224.jpg)
SUMMARY:
1. Kennedy reacts to a shot (probably to his neck) between frames 200 and frame 224. Because he has to move his arms so far, it had to have been several tenths of a second before frame 224. It looks like it was closer to at least a second for him to react like he did.
2. Connally makes no reaction (especially NOT a serious wound) until AFTER he has emerged from behind the sign
3. Because JFK moves both his hands towards his throat, it is reasonable to assume that JFK's first wound was to his throat.
4, A reasonable conclusion based on the reactions that can be seen in the Zapruder film is that
a. First JFK was wounded in the neck
b. The next shot (about a second after the first that hit JFK) wounded Connally for the first time.
5. If thwo shots really are closer together than about 3 seconds, it suggests that there were multiple shooters and that means a conspiracy killed JFK.
I made it larger but I don't see a rifle, white baseball cap and glasses.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/ogtqotadt/Clipboard01.jpg)
All scientific analyses of the film show clear evidence of JBC being struck at Z224.
When you look at JFK BEFORE he is hidden behind the Stemmon's sign, he has his right hand raised almost to the top of his head. When he emerges from behind the sign he has quickly lowered his right hand towards his throat and quickly raised his left hand up from his lap towards his throat.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/8l4wl1typ/ZAP_RESPONSE_TO_SHOT_JFK200-225.jpg)
| (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/mpi/z133-z199/z180.jpg) | (https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/mpi/z200-z249/z207.jpg) |
During that same interval, Connally is looking to his right at frame 193, frame 200 and frame 224. Connally does NOT appear to make any reaction to a shot until (starting at) frame 224.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/chi8h5p9t/ZAP_RESPONSE_TO_SHOT_Con195-200-224.jpg)
SUMMARY:
1. Kennedy reacts to a shot (probably to his neck) between frames 200 and frame 224. Because he has to move his arms so far, it had to have been several tenths of a second before frame 224. It looks like it was closer to at least a second for him to react like he did.
2. Connally makes no reaction (especially NOT a serious wound) until AFTER he has emerged from behind the sign
3. Because JFK moves both his hands towards his throat, it is reasonable to assume that JFK's first wound was to his throat.
4, A reasonable conclusion based on the reactions that can be seen in the Zapruder film is that
a. First JFK was wounded in the neck
b. The next shot (about a second after the first that hit JFK) wounded Connally for the first time.
5. If thwo shots really are closer together than about 3 seconds, it suggests that there were multiple shooters and that means a conspiracy killed JFK.
BS:
These "scientific" analyses amount to "looks like he's reacting to a bullet strike". Other people make the exact same arguments about different frames.
At the same time;
Kennedy violently reacts.
Connally violently reacts.
Connally's jacket violently reacts.
Both men's wounds line up
and can be traced back to the floor with Oswald's rifle was, geez what are the chances?
Like I said, the "analysis" is "looks to me like they are reacting to a bullet strike". You see what you expect to see
Like I said, the "analysis" is "looks to me like they are reacting to a bullet strike". You see what you expect to see.
LOL
"Oswald's rifle". LOL.
Like I said, the "analysis" is "looks to me like they are reacting to a bullet strike". You see what you expect to see.
LOL
"Oswald's rifle". LOL.
The advanced cgi computer analysis
and the physical evidence is that the men were lined up, their wounds were line up back towards Oswald's rifle and they violently react simultaneously,
Nice, when you got nothing you start laughing like an idiot.
You know what's idiotic? Parroting "Oswald's rifle", "Oswald's window", "Oswald's shells", "Oswald's clip" over and over again like it proves anything.
BS:
These "scientific" analyses amount to "looks like he's reacting to a bullet strike". Other people make the exact same arguments about different frames.
Like I said, the "analysis" is "looks to me like they are reacting to a bullet strike". You see what you expect to see.
LOL
"Oswald's rifle". LOL.
The movements were measured photogrammetrically with reference to neurophysiological distinctions between voluntary vs involuntary reactions. One?s shoulder dropping in 55 msec is hard to do.
John Iacoletti
LOL
So is Greer's 55 msec head turn.Yeah... Greer's rubbernecking head turn... He looks toward the president - probably while he is braking the Limo - until the fatal shot... This is some of the best evidence for me that something nefarious, and something much larger than one lone nut was going on that day....
Yeah... Greer's rubbernecking head turn... He looks toward the president - probably while he is braking the Limo - until the fatal shot... Some of the best evidence for me that something nefarious, and something much larger than one lone nut was going on that day....
Yeah... Greer's rubbernecking head turn... He looks toward the president - probably while he is braking the Limo - until the fatal shot... This is some of the best evidence for me that something nefarious, and something much larger than one lone nut was going on that day....
(https://image.ibb.co/jk34Ae/ezgif_com_crop_40.gif)
Best evidence of a second shooter?
How about a third and fourth shooter? :-\
You're rather dimwitted aren't you.
Yeah, you'd be just the dummy to drive the car, knowing it would be fired upon by numerous shooters
Thanks Bill, it's easy for them to dream up these impossible scenarios but when they have to actually put themselves in the hot seat, well, they suddenly don't seem so keen.
JohnM
You're rather dimwitted aren't you.
Yeah, you'd be just the dummy to drive the car, knowing it would be fired upon by numerous shooters
As I said earlier, the second floor shooter can be seen in front of the DalTex later. He is the only person in Dealey Plaza wearing a white baseball cap that I have seen. He must be very confident that he won't be arrested.
I am told that the construction worker in the background is star witness Howard Brennan, who is looking up at the 2nd floor SN. How would he know where to look? However, Brennan omitted this journey to the DalTex when describing his movements to the WC. They appear to be standing together with a group of men.
Construction men, including Brennan, the unknown man in the foreground of this photo and A.J. Millican might be the original "plumbers" of Howard Hunt and are more involved than was thought. They were working for Republic National Bank, widely reputed to be a CIA front connected to many characters in the plot including the guy they later named the CIA building after, George H.W. Bush.
(https://i.imgur.com/ygvhEnw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0S4RUKq.jpg)
I am told that the construction worker in the background is star witness Howard Brennan, who is looking up at the 2nd floor SN. How would he know where to look?
LOL
LOL
You know what's idiotic? Parroting "Oswald's rifle", "Oswald's window", "Oswald's shells", "Oswald's clip" over and over again like it proves anything.
Or thinking that stating a conclusion with confidence is somehow the same thing as evidence.
Instead of relying on Ernies cartoons, how about you set up some boxes and try it for yourself, you may be surprised.
Brennan wasn't on film for all of the shots and his eyesight at the time was good enough to recognise the black fellas on the floor below Oswald as they exited the front door.
JohnM
Right back at ya, do you think responding to every post repeatedly, ad nauseum with "LOL" for example "Oswald's rifle LOL" will make a mountain of supporting evidence just suddenly disappear, you must be joking.
Btw you want to know why you keep getting your ass kicked, it's because your arguments are not based on reality, it only happened one way and that very specific path is supported by hundreds of witnesses and thousands of exhibits but for some reason you want to debate that practically everything is not as it seems and that just makes you look Kooky.
Stop misrepresenting the evidence, and I'll stop laughing at your misrepresentations.
How about you learn the evidence and then we can have an intelligent conversation about the facts because laughing like a Loony at every piece of evidence that you clearly don't have a handle on does you no favours.
Yet another fail.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/t5fyuv.jpg)
Highest portion of three-box stack by the window isn't against the inside wall of the building.
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338712/m1/5/med_res/)
There must be a foot of open space above some parts of the window sill box.
Also, the Sixth Floor Museum window opening is a few inches lower than it was as depicted in the Hughes film and Dillard photo.
(https://jfkassassinationdocumentaries.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/tlb-64.jpg) (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_LastScan1.jpg)
Using the Museum opening as if it's the same as the day of the assassination is deceitful.
Yet another fail.
Highest portion of three-box stack by the window isn't against the inside wall of the building.
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338712/m1/5/med_res/)
Oops, CE399 exited near Connally's right nipple and Connally's wrist is in front of Connally's right nipple at that precise time when both men were lined up back to Oswald's rifle and then to add to your embarrassment we see a violent reaction from not only Connally but simultaneously with JFK. Time to give up Ernie because this evidence destroys your non supportable observations.
Stay tuned for big news later this fall that will debunk the SBT beyond a reasonable doubt....
CAPA will have a conference on Nov. 15th at the old red court house building. Tentative title is "Completing the Historic Record".we will invite key witnesses who will discuss what they knew but werent allowed to publicly share in the past. We will also plan to preview the 3D animation of Dealey Plaza that will put the final nail in the SBT coffin. announcement will be forthcoming-hopefully in next week or so.
All extant photos were included along with precise laser measurements that takes into account changes in Dealey Plaza. The software engineers were independent and not paid by any organization. The incorrect wound locations relied on by the WC and others on this page were tested along with the correct wound locations. No cartoonish manipulation like that done by Dale Myers. Errors of prior renactments are also shown. The model can be used to test ANY potential shooting perch.
We have animations showing both the improper wound location of the WC and the proper location.
I don't understand why the new 3D computer model of the Dealey Plaza films isn't making big news in the research community.
| (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/books/simpleact/neck-transit-upward-deflection.png) "A Simple Act of Murder" by Mark Fuhrman (2006) | (https://i.imgur.com/bxvDodr.png) (2017) |
At the 2017 mock trial of Lee Harvey Oswald, the early version of a computer animation project was presented. Frames of the Zapruder Film traced over 3D models approximating Kennedy and Connally show an angle too steep to match the Single Bullet Theory.
| (https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/docu/coldcasejfk/animation/cold-case-neck-transit-compared-wcr.jpg) | (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_croft~0.jpg) |
All the 3D studies make subjective calls, but this 2017 study is ridiculous.
The House committee on the assassination,did acoustic test from the recordings that day in Dealy Plaza conclude,there were at least 4 shots,,and said that in itself is evidence,of conspiracy
You do realize that the acoustic evidence has been thoroughly discredited?You do realize that the
You do realize that theacoustic evidenceWarren Report has been thoroughly discredited?
You do realize that the acoustic evidence has been thoroughly discredited?
JohnM
Ok, if it's been discredited then there must be an alternative, waiting....
JohnM
Thumb1:
What are you giving a 'thumb up' to ?
Trolling down the river.
What are you giving a 'thumb up' to ?
Trolling down the river.
You mean there's no evidence implicating Saint Patsy ?
And it hasn't been listed a billion times already ?
I have to list it for you again, so you can try to dispute it piece by piece and after failing miserably go back to claiming there's no evidence of Saint Patsy's guilt ?
Who are you trying to kid? You've never listed a damn thing...
And you've never tried to dispute the evidence that's been listed over and over again, right ?
A quick perusal of your inane posts shows that just about all you do is try to dispute the evidence that's been repeatedly presented against Saint Patsy.
You do realize that the acoustic evidence has been thoroughly discredited?
JohnM
True, but this wasn?t the only shot pattern. There seemed to be a location effect on the impression of shot sequence, though I think it was quite weak. Those versed in firearms (Willis, Yarborough, etc) all reported 3 well spaced shots.Try again. Willis did say that the shots were about evenly spaced but he also said they were 2 seconds apart. According to the SBT the shots were 4 and 5 seconds apart. Yarborough said the shot spacing was 2:1 (7 H 439):
|
Try again. Willis did say that the shots were about evenly spaced but he also said they were 2 seconds apart. According to the SBT the shots were 4 and 5 seconds apart. Yarborough said the shot spacing was 2:1 (7 H 439):Your best witnesses are those that witnessed and reported on that very first day it happened. After that, the influence of hearsay has to be factored in. Stories soon change and adopt a fitting pattern, especially if you need to establish a storyline! The 2 reports by Jean Hill and Mary Moorman hold the greatest unrevised "truth" in them. No way they can be that far out to lunch unless you want to say they were part of the evidence planting process involved in the cover up! They came hours after the shooting, not days. Certainly there accounts at that time do NOT match a LN gunman.
After what I took to be about three seconds, another shot boomed out, and after what I
took to be one-half the time between the first and second shots (calculated now, this
would have put the third shot about one and one-half seconds after the second shot--
by my estimate--to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second
shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots--these were my
impressions that day), a third shot was fired.
There are over 40 witnesses who corroborate Yarborough's recollection.
Your best witnesses are those that witnessed and reported on that very first day it happened. After that, the influence of hearsay has to be factored in. Stories soon change and adopt a fitting pattern, especially if you need to establish a storyline! The 2 reports by Jean Hill and Mary Moorman hold the greatest unrevised "truth" in them.So there really was a dog in the car in the back seat??
No way they can be that far out to lunch unless you want to say they were part of the evidence planting process involved in the cover up!
They came hours after the shooting, not days. Certainly there accounts at that time do NOT match a LN gunman.Many others were taken even sooner and do not fit with Jean Hill's account. Both Moorman and Hill recalled more than three shots but weren't in agreement on how many. Were they both right?
DOZENS of witnesses said the last sounds they heard during the shooting were BANG-BANG.
FIRST SHOT then a pause then BAM-BAM.
DOZENS of credible witnesses say BANG-BANG for the last two shots is what they heard.
If the last TWO shots were BAM-BAM as so many witnesses say they were, then what can we see in the Zapruder film that supports BAM seconds of pause then BAM-BAM (and Patricia Ann Donaldson says one of the BAM-BAM shots hit JFK)
Not a valid vimeo URL
To add more fuel to the information that makes SOLVING the JFK assassination "mystery" possible, listen to Gov. Connally tell you during his Warren Comm testimony that the force of the blow to his back bent him over. As can be seen in the Zapruder film, John Connally is NOT bent over at any time in the Zapruder film until a splt second AFTER JFK was shot in the head!
John Connally says he turned to look toward what he thought was a rifle shot (a slight delay after the sign)
When he was turning back, he was bent over by the force of the blow to his back.
Not a valid vimeo URL
The Connallys always talked about hearing the shot that hit JFK in the head AFTER John was shot in the back, but the Zapruder film shows that is NOT true. In fact, the Zapruder film shows that neither Nellie nor John was looking at JFK was he was shot in the head so they did NOT know when he was shot.
SUMMARY:
1. Dozens of witnesses say the last two sounds were BANG-BANG
2. In the Zapruder film, we can see Gov Connally bent over very rapidly a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head
3. Gov. Connally said in many interviews that the blow to his back was enough force to bend him over. Connally is not BENT over at any time in the Zapruder film until a split second after JFK is shot in the head.
4, No blood can be seen on Connally's shirt or right sleeve even seconds after the US gov't says he was shot in the back. WHY is there NO blood anywhere on the front of Connally's white shirt? The answer is easy, Connally was NOT shot in the back until a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head.
5 When you look at frame 267, as mentioned NO BLOOD can be seen on Connally's white shirt. Look at any Zapruder frame before JFK is shot in the head and NO blood will be found on Connally's shirt. HOW THAT POSSIBLE? Nellie said John had a hole in his chest about the size of a baseball. The main point for #5 is, HOW IN THE WORLD did John Connally turn around like he is seen in #267 and he (allegedly) has a serious chest exit wound?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/5k4rj9otd/SequenceZ224-Z228.png)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/mgyw8pn8h/ZCLOSEB267_CROP_CONNALLY_TURN.jpg)
6 It is so easy to fool Americans. They will believe ALMOST anything the US gubermint tells them to believe. If you want to PROVE to yourself what happened, and what I have presented so far does NOT prove the BANG-BANG premise, then you have to start thinking without the US gubermint and fools like Bugliosi telling you what to think! IF this was easy, Americans would have known the truth decades ago!
You can't just post a load of vague might be's and could be's and effectively say " there yer go...case solved".
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/newman3.jpg)
So there really was a dog in the car in the back seat??Many others were taken even sooner and do not fit with Jean Hill's account. Both Moorman and Hill recalled more than three shots but weren't in agreement on how many. Were they both right?
Yes apparently there was a puppet named "Lamb Chop" given to her earlier at Love Field. You wonder if that was poetic justice being served as sheep are often used as sacrifiicial lambs.Here's lies the proof that you're talking out of your backside.
Someone posted this below the video as an explanation to the "dog" in between them:
BigBingFan 4 years ago
At Love Field, someone presented Mrs. Kennedy with a "Lambchop" puppet or stuffed animal. I saw a photo of the grisly seat in which JFK/Jackie sat, and sure enough, before the car was sanitized by Secret Service at Parkland, the photo shows "Lambchop" laying discarded in the seat--I have some doubting Thomas friends who thought Jean's "dog" story made her testimony worthless, but I sent them the photo, and it was like WOW, for them. So, I believe she IS very trustworthy--she was extremely close.
The only thing we don't know is how much Mary Moorman and her discussed with each other before that first interview. Certainly they seemed to be interviewed separately, giving 2 differing perspectives. I have always been more puzzled with her saying "That he was on our side of the street" (referring to the President himself) and she also mentioned they were only 15 feet away. When you looked at the Zapruder Film frames, her "said" location was on the other side of the street on the island and her eye contact seems to be fixed at a point behind JFK and not looking at him - very little head movements on the frames making it hard to visualize how she could actually came up with her narrative as her gaze is elsewhere and not in snync with the car movement.
His time statement is off by 15 minutes,it happened at 12:30
Which statement by whom, Don?Newman
Thanks, Steve.Welcome , Ray.