JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Richard Rubio on August 04, 2018, 06:11:08 PM
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He once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
According to McMillan, Oswald wanted to help train Castro?s army in Cuba, but because he could not secure a visa, he was forced to devise an alternative plan. As McMillan told FRONTLINE:
Lee wanted to go to Cuba to help teach the Cuban army how to shoot. He decided the way to go was to skyjack an airplane. He told Marina that he would sit in the front row of the airplane cabin. She would sit in the back row with June. At a certain point, he would put a gun in the back of the pilot of the aircraft. She would stand up and keep the entire passenger contingent at bay with a pistol, and would speak to them. She would speak to the crowd and tell them to be quiet. Marina laughed at him, and said, ?Well, but I don?t speak English. How am I going to explain to them?? Eventually she laughed him out of the skyjacking plan, and she begged him to find a legal way to get to Cuba. Then he thought of going through Mexico.[/i]
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-lee-harvey-oswald/
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He once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
Prior to Lee proposing the idea ( of hijacking an airliner) to Marina, there had been a hijacking in which the hijacker was welcomed to Cuba..... Lee Oswald was trying to gain entry to Castro's bastion so he could report on what he observed there....
Lee proposed or attempted several schemes in his efforts to gain entry to Cuba.
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"According to McMillan..." when she's the only source always remember the keyword."alledgedly".
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According to author Priscilla McMillen, Oswald?s wife Marina once asked him if he chose the name ?Hidell? because of its resemblance to ?Fidel? (as in Castro). Oswald ?was embarrassed to be caught out, and he told her to shut up,?
Right :-\
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"According to McMillan..." when she's the only source always remember the keyword."alledgedly".
Worked for then Senator John F. Kennedy, always remember who she worked for:
McMillan worked for Kennedy on Capitol Hill in the mid-1950s, when he was a U.S. Senator, advising him on foreign policy matters. She then moved into journalism and in 1959 was stationed in the Soviet Union, reporting for The Progressive and the North American Newspaper Alliance. It was there that she met a 20-year-old American called Lee Harvey Oswald. He was staying in her hotel while trying to defect to the Soviet Union.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/the-only-person-who-knew-both-kennedy-and-his-killer/281712/
Met with Marina in Oct. 1964, Yeah, sure, allegedly like every journalist's interview.
More on her: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511774/The-woman-knew-Kennedy-Lee-Harvey-Oswald.html
Remember, the only person who knew both Oswald and Kennedy? Or might Mohrenschildt have met JFK before? He knew Jackie as a child.
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Right :-\
And there is some other plausible explanation?
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Oswald's 'plan to hijack a plane to gain entry into Cuba' is just one of Marina's crazy stories. He never had such a plan. He didn't need to. He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means. The notion that Lee wanted to to Cuba to train the Cuban army (single-handedly?) is ludicrous. The story falls in the same category as his alleged intent to assassinate Richard Nixon: it never happened.
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Oswald's 'plan to hijack a plane to gain entry into Cuba' is just one of Marina's crazy stories. He never had such a plan. He didn't need to. He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means. The notion that Lee wanted to to Cuba to train the Cuban army (single-handedly?) is ludicrous. The story falls in the same category as his alleged intent to assassinate Richard Nixon: it never happened.
Oh, it was easy to travel to Cuba at the height of the Cold War, after the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis. Thanks for clearing that up!
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I'm not positive of how Lee got into
Russia the Soviet Union but we do know, he attempted suicide in his hotel, desperate measures to get into the USSR.
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I'm not positive of how Lee got into Russia the Soviet Union but we do know, he attempted suicide in his hotel, desperate measures to get into the USSR.
Thank you for recalling that parallel ......And you're right. Lee was not afraid to use desprate measures if he thought it would achieve his goal.
However....I believe the wrist slash was superficial. He never intended to commit suicide....His Russian escort found him feinting unconsciousness with a bathtub with a lot of red water in it......When that wrist scar was examined at his autopsy it was found to have been a superficial wound....
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Thank you for recalling that parallel ......And you're right. Lee was not afraid to use desprate measures if he thought it would achieve his goal.
However....I believe the wrist slash was superficial. He never intended to commit suicide....His Russian escort found him feinting unconsciousness with a bathtub with a lot of red water in it......When that wrist scar was examined at his autopsy it was found to have been a superficial wound....
Oswald hacked into his wrist deep enough that the wound required stitches and the Russians were concerned enough to put Oswald in a ward with the other insane people.
Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.
Oct. 22. Hospital. I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies, and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon, I am visited by Rima. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter, she must ask me medical question, "Did you know what you were doing?" Answer "yes." "Did you blackout?" "No," etc. I then complain about poor food. The doctors laugh. Apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave, I am alone with Rima (amongst the mentally ill). She encourages me and scolds me. She says she will help me get transferred to another section of Hospital (not for insane) where food is good.
JohnM
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Oswald hacked into his wrist deep enough that the wound required stitches and the Russians were concerned enough to put Oswald in a ward with the other insane people.
Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.
Oct. 22. Hospital. I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies, and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon, I am visited by Rima. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter, she must ask me medical question, "Did you know what you were doing?" Answer "yes." "Did you blackout?" "No," etc. I then complain about poor food. The doctors laugh. Apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave, I am alone with Rima (amongst the mentally ill). She encourages me and scolds me. She says she will help me get transferred to another section of Hospital (not for insane) where food is good.
JohnM
Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.
Ha...ha...ha...ha.... :D.... So, Lee was unconscious...But he was aware that Rima found him and screamed....
Mr Mytton would you like to buy some nice seashore property in Arizona?
Lee wrote this in his "Historical Diary" on the ship while traveling back to the US 3 1/2 years after the event.
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Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.
Ha...ha...ha...ha.... :D.... So, Lee was unconscious...But he was aware that Rima found him and screamed....
Mr Mytton would you like to buy some nice seashore property in Arizona?
Lee wrote this in his "Historical Diary" on the ship while traveling back to the US 3 1/2 years after the event.
What's the problem? It's a logical progression of events, Oswald wasn't dead he was only unconscious then when Rima screamed, Oswald was awoken.
JohnM
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Oswald's 'plan to hijack a plane to gain entry into Cuba' is just one of Marina's crazy stories. He never had such a plan. He didn't need to. He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means. The notion that Lee wanted to to Cuba to train the Cuban army (single-handedly?) is ludicrous. The story falls in the same category as his alleged intent to assassinate Richard Nixon: it never happened.
He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means.
Are we talking about the same guy who didn't have the money to travel to Russia but did so nevertheless?
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He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means.
Are we talking about the same guy who didn't have the money to travel to Russia but did so nevertheless?
who didn't have the money to travel to Russia
Cite?
JohnM
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Chapter 8 ? The Diary That Wasn?t - Part 1
The writing has a continuity from page to page and line to line that is indicative of being written about, or at, the same time. It does not give the impression of being ?random?, as would be expected of a diary extended over a period of time. It appears that this diary has been written within a short period of time and not over any extensive period.
Joseph P. McNally, Fellow, American Academy of Forensic Sciences
It has been pointed out that there are significant problems with each of the sources utilized to reconstruct Oswald?s thoughts and activities while in the Soviet Union.
For many years Oswald?s ?Historic Diary? was the virtually unchallenged primary source of information on this period of his life, purporting, as it does, to be his contemporaneous documentation of events. However, some skeptics pointed to certain entries in the diary which they said reflected information which could only have become known after the supposed time of the entries.
The House Select Committee on Assassinations had a number of documents about which there were various questions; inevitably, Oswald?s diary came to be amongst them. In order to resolve these questions, the Committee first asked the President on the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners for his recommendations on the leading experts in the field of questioned document examination, specifically hand-written documents. The Committee then asked each of the people he recommended for their suggestions as to whom the Committee might retain for these purposes. Three names appeared consistently. After ascertaining that none had had a connection with the FBI or the Kennedy case, the Committee requested that this impartial panel undertake an examination of various documents. The panel members, all of whom belonged to the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners, were Joseph P. McNally, David J. Purtell and Charles C. Scott. The Committee provided the following material extracted from their qualifications:
?McNally received a BS and an MPA in police science from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, University of New York City in 1967 and 1975 respectively. He started in the field of questioned document identification in 1942 with the New York Police laboratory. He has been supervisor of the document identification section of the police laboratory, training officer in the police academy, commanding officer of the police laboratory and handwriting expert in he district attorney?s office on New York County. He retired from the police department with the rank of captain in 1972 and entered private practice. He serves as a consultant to New York?s Human Resources Administration. McNally is a fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and a member of the International Association for Identification, and the American Society for Testing and Materials. He has lectured at the University of New York City, Rockland College, and the New York Police Academy.?
?Purtell receiver a Ph.B, with a major in mathematics and chemistry, from Northwestern University in 1949. He began his career in questioned document identification in 1942 with the Chicago Police Department, where he served as a document examiner in the scientific crime detection laboratory. He retired in 1974 as chief document examiner and captain of police, and entered private practice in 1973. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and served as chairman of the questioned document section and chairman of the program committee. He is past vice president and president of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners. Purtell has lectured at Northwestern University, the University of Illinois, the University of Indiana and St Joseph?s College, among other schools. He has presented and published numerous scientific papers.?
?Scott received an AA degree from Kansas City Junior College in 1930 and a JD from the University of Missouri School of Law in 1935, whereupon he became a member of the Missouri bar. While attending law school, he founded the University of Missouri at Kansas City Law Review and was its first editor-in-chief. He began his career as a questioned document examiner with the Federal Reserve Bank in 1935 and has been in private practice since 1946. The first edition of his three-volume-book, Photographic Evidence, was published in 1942. Now in its second edition, it has become the standard textbook on the subject. He served on the first board of directors of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners. He has conducted seminars on scientific document examination for more than 20 State bar associations, written numerous professional articles, and, since 1954, has been an adjunct professor of law at the University of Missouri School of Law.?
The panel followed standard procedures and techniques in its examinations. The writings and signatures were looked at individually and in juxtaposition with each other, taking into consideration the gross characteristics of the writing process, writing skill, slant, speed, proportions of the letters, ratio of small to capital letters; height ratio, lateral spacing, and overall writing pattern. Significant differences were looked for. A stereoscope microscope was used for minute examination and comparison of individual letters and characteristics.
One of the issues addressed to these experts queried, ?Was the ?historic diary? written in one sitting?? As to this, the panel concluded that, ?Because of the poor condition of the historical diary, they are unable to conclude firmly whether it was written at one or more than one sitting. On balance, it appears to have been written at one or a few sittings.? The problem referred to regarding the condition of the diary can best be understood from the comments of David J. Purtell: ?With respect to timespan of the historical diary, an answer cannot be provided because of the present condition of the paper. The documents had been processed by the silver nitrate method in an attempt to develop latent fingerprints. While a recognized method, the drawback is that it soils the paper: the silver nitrate which remains on the paper causes it to turn black in time. Today, the pages are in very poor condition, and though the message can be read in part, it is a very difficult task. One observation that can be reported is that one sheet of paper is of a different weight (thickness) than the other sheets.?
However, although scientifically dating the age of the writing might have proven helpful, inability to do so did not prevent addressing the truly crucial issue, which might be stated in the question: Was this document an accumulation of random entries each entry having been made on the date indicated contemporaneous with the events being recorded?
As to that very important question, the answer is most unsettling, for it appears to be rather clear that this document, upon which so much reliance has been placed in the reconstructing the defection, is a phony. In other words, Lee Harvey Oswald?s ?diary? was not a diary at all.
As Joseph P. McNally reported, ?A check was made of the historical diary. The 12 pages were written with the same type of writing instrument. The paper used for 11 of the 12 pages is similar; only the last page differs ? it is appreciably thinner. The writing has a continuity from page to page and line to line that is indicative of being written about, or at, the same time. It does not give the impression of being ?random,? as would be expected of a diary extended over a period of time. It appears that this diary has been written within a short period of time and not over any extensive period.?
http://www.jfkbook.org/book/book-2-defector/chapter-8-the-diary-that-wasnt/part-4-was-oswalds-diary-real/
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Summary of Conclusions:
27. With the restrictions and reservations stated in each panel member's final report,* the members conclude, generally, that the signatures and handwriting purported to be by Oswald are consistently that of one person. Because of the poor condition of the historical diary, they are unable to conclude firmly whether it was written at one or more than one sitting. On balance, it appears to have been written at one or a few sittings.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/jfk8/hand.htm
Perhaps some exact references are useful
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Mr. MCNALLY - What we have here and what we have examined and compared was writing which covered a period from 1956 until 1963. And over that period of time in all of these particular documents and just to restate what I have said before, it was our considered opinion, all three members of the panel, that all of the original documents were written by one and the same individual. The photo reproductions with the exception of the so-called Hunt letter, in our opinion again, with the caveat that they are photo reproductions and cannot be microscopically examined, that we feel that these letters were written by the same individual; in other words, Lee Harvey Oswald. The Hunt letter, because of the circumstances surrounding it, it is extremely poor reproduction, and also because of the circumstances surrounding--the suspicion surrounding the signature we were unable to make any definite decision regarding that particular letter.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/mcnally2.htm
If the Diary is an "original document" with the others, the conclusion is they were still written by the same individual... except for the Hunt record. Hardly phony as the author asserts. I could be wrong though.
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If the Diary is an "original document" with the others, the conclusion is they were still written by the same individual... except for the Hunt record. Hardly phony as the author asserts. I could be wrong though.
The "Historic Diary" is actually a debriefing report that Lee wrote about his mission to the USSR. He wrote that report on the ship as he traveled back to the US in June of 1962.
"as for the fee of $__blank_ ($10,000 ? ) I was supposed to receive for this _blank_ (mission? ) I refuse it. I made pretense to accept it because otherwise I would have been considered a crack pot and not allowed to appear to express my views, after all who would refuse money??."
Lee wrote the above as part of the debriefing report.... It is written on the ships stationary ....
At the time Lee wrote the above, he was angry at the CIA agent who had accused him of working for the Russians by accepting money from them in December of 1959. The money was given to Lee under the guise of a Red Cross gift and Lee accepted it while unaware that it was money from the Russian government.
Clearly Lee had accepted the mission of infiltrating the USSR and had agreed to a lump payment for the mission when he returned to the US.... But the agent had accused him of working for the Russians and that really xxxxxx him off.....
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It has been pointed out [from this diary] that there are significant problems with each of the sources utilized to reconstruct Oswald?s thoughts and activities while in the Soviet Union.
Certain dated things had described events that had not happened yet. [time traveler Lee]
If Oswald was such a 'diary keeper' why didn't he just continue to keep a diary? ::)
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Lee's "Historic Diary"
Among Oswald's possessions originating in Russia was something he called his "Historic Diary," an account of the time he spent in that country. The use of the phrase "diary" is a misnomer, however, since Oswald did not write up the accounts contained in its twelve pages until long after the dates he wrote on each page.(8 ) The Warren Commission noticed a number of anachronisms in the document, since some entries referred to events which had not yet occurred. Also, the exceedingly melodramatic tone (and title) of the diary indicated that Oswald was attempting to spice up the events to hold the interest of future readers. For instance, the diary asserts that Oswald was offered citizenship in the Soviet Union, but he refused; similarly, it states that he was asked to address a meeting of workers in Minsk, and that he humbly declined that proposal as well.(9)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/leeslies.htm
Posting, is not directly on-topic to the OP.
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It's interesting to me that we have nothing in Oswald's writings about his views on JFK. Nothing
at all that I know of. So why didn't the "conspirators" - the FBI, CIA et cetera - who framed him (allegedly) also plant incriminating comments/statements by Oswald about JFK? Things like he hated JFK, he found JFK a fascist et cetera?
We have some conspiracy advocates who argue all or much of the evidence against Oswald is faked. So, why not have the Paines say he told them JFK was a monster? Or have Marina - who was allegedly coached - to say "Lee hated JFK". Remember, she said Lee liked the Kennedys and they cried together when the Kennedys lost their prematurely born son Patrick. Why not plant writings where Oswald says JFK must be killed?
Most of what we have on Oswald about JFK is that he, Oswald, admired JFK. Or liked him. Or praised his policies on civil rights. This is what DeMohrenschildt said Oswald said about JFK. We have an account by a German geologist, Volkmar Schmidt, who says Oswald told him he detested JFK; and it's this description, in my view, that is closer to his true feelings about JFK. But curiously that's about it.
The conspiracy advocate response will be "They just didn't" or "How do you know how they should have framed him"? Those are pretty weak responses because they would answer the question as to motive.
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It's interesting to me that we have nothing in Oswald's writing about his views on JFK. Nothing at all. So why didn't the "conspirators" - the FBI, CIA et cetera - who framed him (allegedly) also plant incriminating comments/statements by Oswald about JFK? Things like he hated JFK, he found JFK a fascist et cetera?
We have some conspiracy advocates who argue all or much of the evidence against Oswald is faked. So, why not have the Paines say he told them JFK was a monster? Or have Marina - who was allegedly coached - to say "Lee hated JFK". Remember, she said Lee liked the Kennedys and they cried together when the Kennedys lost their prematurely born son Patrick. Why not plant writings where Oswald says JFK must be killed?
Most of what we have on Oswald about JFK is that he, Oswald, admired JFK. Or liked him. Or praised his policies on civil rights. This is what DeMohrenschildt said Oswald said about JFK. We have an account by a German geologist, Volkmar Schmidt, who says Oswald told him he detested JFK. But that's about it.
The conspiracy advocate response will be "They just didn't" or "How do you know how they should have framed him"? Those are pretty weak responses because they answer the question as to motive.
It's interesting to me that we have nothing in Oswald's writing about his views on JFK. Nothing at all. So why didn't the "conspirators" - the FBI, CIA et cetera - who framed him (allegedly) also plant incriminating comments/statements by Oswald about JFK? Things like he hated JFK, he found JFK a fascist et cetera?
"It's interesting to me that we have nothing in Oswald's writing about his views on JFK. Nothing at all."
There are no known records of Lee Oswald denouncing or criticizing JFK..... Because he held no animosity toward John Kennedy, In fact he respected JFK.... And he sure as hell didn't murder JFK.
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Yawn. Yet another "Conspirators didn't do something that I think conspirators would do, therefore Oswald killed JFK" argument. Anything to avoid actually presenting evidence that Oswald killed JFK.
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This is from the list of unsupported claims by Walt Cakebread that I made years ago.
- Walt never proved a ?signed affidavit with a notary seal? signed by LHO saying he was going to hijack a plane and make the pilot fly him to Cuba EVER existed.
I figured this thread would be right up his alley.
Rob, Why do you allow your animosity to obscure your view.......?
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From 'a diary' excerpt [mentioned earlier]
Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad)
Then Oswald leaves the USSR a couple of years later speaking Russian like a native?
Oswald wanted to go to Cuba? Prissy and Marina cook up a story that Lee [says] he wants "to train Cuban soldiers" in rifle combat or something?
Wouldn't we think that one would need to know fluent SPANISH to accomplish this?
Oh well, the fantasy continues.
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Why do you offer up one unsupported claim after another? Why do so many of them support the WC's claims?
Simply because you have your head in a most unnatural place and your vision is obscured you believe that damnedest nonsense......
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Why do you offer up one unsupported claim after another? Why do so many of them support the WC's claims?
Rob....Lee's mission was similar to his mission to Russia. He was given the task of infiltrating Castro's Bastion an learning what he could about the Russian troops and missiles on the island. He had to pretend to be a communist and a friend of the Castro revolution just as he pretended to be a disaffected US Marina when he went to Russia. ( A disaffected Marine who continued to war his beloved US Marine Corps ring at the same time he he denounced the United States.??)
If he had succeeded in hijacking an airliner and denounced the US on landing in Cuba, chances are good that he would have been accepted in Cuba...
Rob, you're so shallow in your "thinking" that you really should "hold your tongue"......
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This is from the list of unsupported claims by Walt Cakebread that I made years ago.
- Walt never proved a ?signed affidavit with a notary seal? signed by LHO saying he was going to hijack a plane and make the pilot fly him to Cuba EVER existed.
I figured this thread would be right up his alley.
At the time I rebutted your idea that there should be "proof" that Lee had proposed hijacking a airliner, I was being sarcastic, by asking "would you expect Lee to have left a signed and notarized affidavit ?"
Of course an intelligent reader would understand that such an instrument would be enough to convict a person and get him a room at the crossbar hotel.... But apparently you're not bright enough to understand simple ideas....
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🏃♂️Walt, 🏃♂️. You were dead serious. Years later spin won't help you.
You simply didn't understand that Lee wouldn't have left any documentation ( like a legal affidavit) that he intended to hijack an airliner.
Any normal intelligent person would have understood why he wouldn't have left written proof that he planned to commit a crime....
Lee knew that there had been a successful hijacking and the perpetrator had been welcomed to Cuba.....
Marina didn't know that Lee was an American intelligence agent, and she balked when he suggested that they could fly to Cuba and be welcomed to Castroland.....
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The whole idea is ridiculous as LHO would have never made it back to the U.S. if he had succeeded. If he had failed he would have been in jail. Either way he wouldn't have been of any use to anyone.
I realize that the affidavit comment is ridiculous, but *you* said it.
If you knew it was a ridiculous idea.... why did you take it seriously? The truth is:....You didn't realize that I was not seriously suggesting that Lee would have left written proof that he was going to commit a crime. If you've listened to Lee in his debates on the New Orleans Radio station (monitored in Cuba) then you should have noticed that he never ever said anything that could be construed as threatening to JFK. He was very careful in his choice of words in arguing with Carlos Bringuer on the program Latin Listening Post....
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It's interesting to me that we have nothing in Oswald's writings about his views on JFK. ............... Why not plant writings where Oswald says JFK must be killed?
Too much 'Manchurian Candidate' stuff there.
They pulled that off with Sirhan Sirhan [RFK must die]
Also...that would have put Oswald in the right wing John Bircher or Klanish end of the political spectrum.
No, they wanted to keep him a staunch communist boogey man. There was enough incriminating things [that Oswald conveniently left behind] that worked well for the prosecution.
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Too much 'Manchurian Candidate' stuff there.
They pulled that off with Sirhan Sirhan [RFK must die]
Also...that would have put Oswald in the right wing John Bircher or Klanish end of the political spectrum.
No, they wanted to keep him a staunch communist boogey man. There was enough incriminating things [that Oswald conveniently left behind] that worked well for the prosecution.
There was enough incriminating things [that Oswald conveniently left behind] that worked well for the prosecution.
Yes, you're right....about incriminating things that Lee "conveniently" left behind.....I doubt that he knew that J.Edgar Hoover was keeping a file open and compiling a record that could be used when the time was ripe.
J.Edgar Hoover had the most complete incriminating file on the Patsy.....He knew better than anybody about Lee Oswald's public record which portrayed a communist evolutionary who admired Fidel Castro.
And though there is no way to prove it.....I'd bet that Hoover knew that Lee had ordered a rifle from Klein's at the time the rifle was delivered to PO box 2915 in March of 1963....... The FBI didn't trace that rifle purchase back to Kleins in just a few hours.... Hoover had Lee Oswald's PO box under surveillance and knew that Lee had ordered that rifle from Klein's. And I'd bet that Hoover knew that the rifle was used to put a bullet through General Walker's window in the hoax attempt on Walker's life....
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The FBI were trying to track Lee Harvey Oswald before the assassination, according to memos by New Orleans division of the bureau. An agent there wrote that Oswald was of interest according to ?Cuban sources?, and that he had forwarded the information to Dallas authorities.
The FBI warned Dallas police of a death threat to Lee Harvey Oswald, according to a memo by director J Edgar Hoover, but the police failed to protect him. ?Last night we received a call in our Dallas office from a man talking in a calm voice and saying he was a member of a committee organized to kill Oswald.?
Hoover started to fear conspiracy theorizing. ?The thing I am concerned about,? Hoover said, ?is having something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.?
Soviet leaders considered Oswald a ?neurotic maniac who was disloyal to his own country and everything else?. They, too, feared a conspiracy had killed Kennedy, perhaps organized by a rightwing coup or Lyndon Johnson. They also feared that a reckless general would launch a missile and start war in the aftermath of Kennedy?s death.
Fidel Castro told American lawmakers that Cuba was not involved in the plot, when House investigators visited the island in 1978. In 1963, however, the Cuban ambassador tot the US reacted with ?happy delight? to the murder, according to a CIA memo.
The documents include a lengthy report on CIA assassination plots and programs, and scores of pages of receipts and bookkeeping, amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars in covert programs. Many were directed at Cuba, others in the Dominican Republic, Congo, and north and south Vietnam.
President Donald Trump blocked the release of an unknown number of documents, saying he had ?no choice? but to bow to national security concerns of the FBI and CIA. He also ordered them to review their still secret documents over the next 180 days, setting a new deadline for releases, on 26 April 2018.
Read more...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/26/jfk-files-released-assassination-documents-conspiracy-theories
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I took it seriously because the vast majority of what you say is ridiculous, but you believe it. You believed that LHO was going to hijack a plane back then, but as usual you couldn't offer any supporting evidence for it.
You believed that LHO was going to hijack a plane back then, but as usual you couldn't offer any supporting evidence for it.
You're FOS.... I said that Lee was ENTERTAINING THE IDEA of hijacking a plane as a way to infiltrate Castro's Bastion....He knew that another hijacker had successfully hijacked a plane and had been granted asylum in Cuba.....Lee told Marina that he could hijack an airliner and they could fly to Cuba and be welcomed into the country. Marina immediately nixed the idea.
as usual you couldn't offer any supporting evidence
What would you expect Rob??...A signed and notarized affidavit from Lee that he was entertaining the idea of hijacking an airliner ??
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I took it seriously because the vast majority of what you say is ridiculous, but you believe it. You believed that LHO was going to hijack a plane back then, but as usual you couldn't offer any supporting evidence for it.
A whole bunch of people think that "Marina said so" is sufficient reason to believe something is true. Except for those things she said that they don't believe, that is.
Marina Oswald Porter's Statements of a Contradictory Nature (http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/45606)
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Yes, but the vast majority of them are LNers. Cakebread claims to be a CTer. If that were true then he should know better.
Oh, So a person must march in lockstep with all CT's or else he's an LNer.....Do I have that right Robbie?
Are you aware that being in agreement on all aspects is the hallmark of an LNer?.......
The problem is:.....You can't accept that secret agents are NOT law abiding citizens.... An agent like Lee Oswald probably violates many laws in his effort to attain his goal.... And if that goal is to eliminate another agent he will even commit murder.
If Lee Oswald thought that he could infiltrate Cuba by hijacking an airliner, he may have proposed that idea to Marina....Marina simply wouldn't agree to such a dangerous stunt.....
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Having Marina testify that Oswald hated JFK isn't anything remotely like a "Manchurian Candidate" and something that, it seems to me, obviously would have been done if you believe she was coached or coerced into testifying.
Again: if Marina said what the government wanted her to say out of fear of being deported - as many Oswald defenders claim - then why didn't she say Oswald hated JFK? It provides a clear motive and a direct line to shooting of JFK; motive, something the WC couldn't determine. In fact, Marina said he liked JFK something that makes no sense at all except to those who defend Oswald at any cost.
De Mohrenschildt said Oswald admired JFK. If De Mohrenschildt was part of the CIA plan to frame Oswald that makes no sense.
The Oswald defenders don't want to address this simple question: if the investigation was a charade, a giant lie then why not have these key witnesses provide a motive? It's understandable they don't want to answer it; if I was an apologist for him I wouldn't want to deal with it either.
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Having Marina testify that Oswald hated JFK isn't anything remotely like a "Manchurian Candidate" and something that, it seems to me, obviously would have been done if you believe she was coached or coerced into testifying.
Again: if Marina said what the government wanted her to say out of fear of being deported - as many Oswald defenders claim - then why didn't she say Oswald hated JFK? It provides a clear motive and a direct line to shooting of JFK; motive, something the WC couldn't determine. In fact, Marina said he liked JFK something that makes no sense at all except to those who defend Oswald at any cost.
De Mohrenschildt said Oswald admired JFK. If De Mohrenschildt was part of the CIA plan to frame Oswald that makes no sense.
The Oswald defenders don't want to address this simple question: if the investigation was a charade, a giant lie then why not have these key witnesses provide a motive? It's understandable they don't want to answer it; if I was an apologist for him I wouldn't want to deal with it either.
De Mohrenschildt said Oswald admired JFK. If De Mohrenschildt was part of the CIA plan to frame Oswald that makes no sense.
Who said that G. De M. was part o a plan to frame Lee Oswald??? I very much doubt that G. de M. knew that there was a serious plot afoot. And although I believe George was not of sterling character.... I doubt he would have knowingly helped to frame Lee....