JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jake Maxwell on August 02, 2018, 05:33:19 PM
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Toni Foster is said to have been on the scene when JFK was assassinated. She has been identified in the Zapruder film.
In a 2000 article by Debra Conway (interview was in late 1990's), Toni says that JFK's car stopped for several seconds. She says it FOUR times!
What are we to make of her testimony?
I know the Governor and Mrs. Connally were there but I wasn?t even thinking of them. I don?t mean that in an inconsiderate way but it?s just what I saw. They were protecting themselves too. For some reason the car stopped. It did stop for seconds. I don?t ever know why it stopped and all of a sudden it sped up and they went under the underpass.
I could never figure out why the car stopped. [Mrs. Kennedy] started crawling out the back of the car crying and screaming (whatever it was she was screaming, I can?t remember).
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Oh that's right, all the films were altered.
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Well, what do you really think? Was Toni lying in the interview? And yes, all the films were confiscated by the FBI, and I suppose all but the Nix film was returned... Four times, "it stopped." Is she lying, near blind - or do we have a good case of film tampering?
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Well, what do you really think? Was Toni lying in the interview? And yes, all the films were confiscated by the FBI, and I suppose all but the Nix film was returned... Four times, "it stopped." Is she lying, near blind - or do we have a good case of film tampering?
The limo experienced rapid deceleration due to Greer lifting his foot off the accelerator while driving at parade speed in first gear. The limo never stopped but the motorcade behind it did.
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Well, what do you really think? Was Toni lying in the interview? And yes, all the films were confiscated by the FBI, and I suppose all but the Nix film was returned... Four times, "it stopped." Is she lying, near blind - or do we have a good case of film tampering?
She was wrong pure and simple. Maybe she's lying or maybe she's convinced herself that her recollection is based on reality but it's not.
Why would you wasted even 5 minutes of your life on this nonsense? You will never get out of the rabbit hole if this stuff sucks you in.
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She was wrong pure and simple. Maybe she's lying or maybe she's convinced herself that her recollection is based on reality but it's not.
You use such compelling arguments. Would you accept an argument like that?
Howard Brennan was wrong pure and simple. Maybe he's lying or maybe he's convinced himself that his recollection is based on reality but it's not.
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You use such compelling arguments. Would you accept an argument like that?
Howard Brennan was wrong pure and simple. Maybe he's lying or maybe he's convinced himself that his recollection is based on reality but it's not.
Hi John, whilst I believe Steve Howsley is essentially correct in that "she was wrong" the explanation is anything but "pure and simple". I believe Steve Logan explained it better; "The limo experienced rapid deceleration due to Greer lifting his foot off the brake while driving at parade speed in first gear. The limo never stopped but the motorcade behind it did." That may certainly have given the appearance that the lead car also stopped and explains the mistake. Unless you believe in the film alteration theory, it's quite clear the lead car did not stop but just slowed down.
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Hi John, whilst I believe Steve Howsley is essentially correct in that "she was mistaken" the explanation is anything but "pure and simple". I believe Steve Logan explained it better; "The limo experienced rapid deceleration due to Greer lifting his foot off the brake while driving at parade speed in first gear. The limo never stopped but the motorcade behind it did." That may certainly have given the appearance that the lead car also stopped and explains the mistake. Unless you believe in the film alteration theory, it's quite clear the lead car did not stop but just slowed down.
I think that explanation works fine for the people who were standing behind the presidential limo at the time, but not so much for Toni Glover because she was right alongside the limo.
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I think that explanation works fine for the people who were standing behind the presidential limo at the time, but not so much for Toni Glover because she was right alongside the limo.
John, Toni said that JFK's car stopped for several seconds. Relatively, that's a long time and the film footage shows no such thing. She's obviously not lying. The only logical explanation is that she was mistaken and, at least to me, Steve Logan gives a perfect explanation as to how that mistake was made.
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Whether in a parade or backing out of the driveway who, "Lifts their foot OFF the brake while driving...." in order to decelerate? Greer definitely Placed his foot ON the brake when all hell started breaking loose.
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Whether in a parade or backing out of the driveway who, "Lifts their foot OFF the brake while driving...." in order to decelerate? Greer definitely Placed his foot ON the brake when all hell started breaking loose.
I think he meant to say that Greer took his foot off the accelerator, not the brake.
The noted physicist Luis W. Alvarez came up with a siren-reaction theory, published in the Journal of Physics in 1976.
"The heavy car decelerated suddenly for about 0.5 sec (10 frames),
centered at about frame 299, reducing its speed from about 12 mph
to about 8 mph. Since the car was certainly being operated in some
low gear ratio, the deceleration was no doubt caused by the driver
reducing his foot pressure on the accelerator pedal. ...
"suggest that the siren, from an escorting police vehicle behind the
President's car, had come a few seconds before the fatal shot. ...
"Everyone will recognize that such a reaction on the part of the driver
would be an unavoidable conditioned reflex; we all learn that when
we hear a siren suddenly turned on just behind our car, we lift our foot
from the accelerator pedal."
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Whether in a parade or backing out of the driveway who, "Lifts their foot OFF the brake while driving...." in order to decelerate? Greer definitely Placed his foot ON the brake when all hell started breaking loose.
It is a very odd argument to make, that someone takes one's foot off the brake and the car decelerates... But I also think Greer had his foot on the brake, right before some of the hell broke loose...
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Perhaps this is why Greer had his foot on the brake... he was watching and waiting... for......... And note how he doesn't turn back toward the front of the car, until the dirty deed is done...
(https://image.ibb.co/de0f9T/ezgif_com_crop_39.gif)
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Hi John, whilst I believe Steve Howsley is essentially correct in that "she was wrong" the explanation is anything but "pure and simple". I believe Steve Logan explained it better; "The limo experienced rapid deceleration due to Greer lifting his foot off the brake while driving at parade speed in first gear. The limo never stopped but the motorcade behind it did." That may certainly have given the appearance that the lead car also stopped and explains the mistake. Unless you believe in the film alteration theory, it's quite clear the lead car did not stop but just slowed down.
I also think Steve Logan explained it better. To be honest it's an issue that is simply not worthy of discussion hence my dismissive response. Sure, there's been speculation that the car slowed down due to braking or easing of the accelerator but to suggest the car stopped for full seconds as the witness claims is simply ridiculous.
Maybe she experienced one of those intense episodes where it's like time stands still. That could at least mean she's not lying and isn't necessarily a weirdo.
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She was wrong pure and simple. Maybe she's lying or maybe she's convinced herself that her recollection is based on reality but it's not.
Why would you wasted even 5 minutes of your life on this nonsense? You will never get out of the rabbit hole if this stuff sucks you in.
Toni Foster
http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/toni.pdf
Well at least she said the shots came from the back
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Could not find accurate info is Toni still alive? Would be good to ask her about stop and the radio she was listening with her husband we are discusing in another post.
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Whether in a parade or backing out of the driveway who, "Lifts their foot OFF the brake while driving...." in order to decelerate? Greer definitely Placed his foot ON the brake when all hell started breaking loose.
Ya, I meant accelerator. Prove he stepped on the brakes. You can't. Nobody can. Why bring it up again .
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I think he meant to say that Greer took his foot off the accelerator, not the brake.
I did. Thanks. Corrected.
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She was wrong pure and simple. Maybe she's lying or maybe she's convinced herself that her recollection is based on reality but it's not.
Why would you wasted even 5 minutes of your life on this nonsense? You will never get out of the rabbit hole if this stuff sucks you in.
I do not believe she was lying. The entire Dealy Plaza event is a rabbit hole .
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I do not believe she was lying. The entire Dealy Plaza event is a rabbit hole .
Since when is a POTUS being assassinated on a public street in broad daylight reduced to an "Event"?
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Since when is a POTUS being assassinated on a public street in broad daylight reduced to an "Event"?
You know what he meant. Cut the crap attempt to create another argument or was it an attempt at a distraction. Foster said the car stopped for seconds (plural) and she was wrong.
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You know what he meant. Cut the crap attempt to create another argument or was it an attempt at a distraction. Foster said the car stopped for seconds (plural) and she was wrong.
I laugh when I see people 54+ years after the fact calling an eyewitness "Wrong". Why not attempt to ascertain what Might be responsible for her eyewitness account? Maybe she was misquoted? Maybe she was medicated? Maybe this is Not the lady that did that side shuffle? Research needs to trump accepting the accepted party line regarding a 54+ year old Unsolved murder.
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Dillard said he was in the plaza for 2-3 minutes(can't remember the source, may even be the WC but not sure).
Anyway Foster's in the shock zone, she saw it from close range, terrible. Might have effected her recollection some, it has been known to.
That said, I think the limo clearly slows and Greer most likely tapped the brakes, it's no biggie, stuff happens, If I'd blame anyone it would be Rowley.
There's an automatic assumption that if he did tap the brakes then that suggests guilt, LNT's feel it too, that's why they get their panties in a twist over it, one of the few things we all agree on perhaps, is that it just doesn't look good if he did.
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Since when is a POTUS being assassinated on a public street in broad daylight reduced to an "Event"?
It seems English is not your first language.
e?vent
noun
a thing that happens, especially one of importance.
"one of the main political events of the late 20th century"
a planned public or social occasion.
"events to raise money for charity"
synonyms: occurrence, happening, proceeding, incident, affair, circumstance, occasion, phenomenon; function, gathering; informalbash
"an annual event"
Seems to me that the event in DP was one of importance, and indeed qualifies as 'a thing that happened'
:)
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Maybe she was misquoted? Maybe she was medicated?
Whatever, it is WRONG to think the car stopped for seconds. You do understand that don't you?
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JohnM
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It seems English is not your first language.
e?vent
noun
a thing that happens, especially one of importance.
"one of the main political events of the late 20th century"
a planned public or social occasion.
"events to raise money for charity"
synonyms: occurrence, happening, proceeding, incident, affair, circumstance, occasion, phenomenon; function, gathering; informalbash
"an annual event"
Seems to me that the event in DP was one of importance, and indeed qualifies as 'a thing that happened'
:)
You nailed that one. Pearl Harbor, a historic (and tragic of course) event, 911, a tragic event. We all know, what happened on Nov. 22, 1963 was tragic. It does not need to be stated as such. DP also, is a bit more encompassing, meaning for the whole area.
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You nailed that one. Pearl Harbor, a historic (and tragic of course) event, 911, a tragic event. We all know, what happened on Nov. 22, 1963 was tragic. It does not need to be stated as such. DP also, is a bit more encompassing, meaning for the whole area.
I'm saying nothing. ???
Kamikazeeeeee, Allahu Akbar and Viva Fidel!
Damn it!
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You nailed that one. Pearl Harbor, a historic (and tragic of course) event, 911, a tragic event. We all know, what happened on Nov. 22, 1963 was tragic. It does not need to be stated as such. DP also, is a bit more encompassing, meaning for the whole area.
Yeah. The World Series = Event. Springsteen Concert = Event. Trump Rally = Event
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JohnM
How exactly does this vid preclude the limo stopping in the original film? This vid is so far removed from the original that it redefines reality. But it looks great! So is that the bar for you?
And WTF happened to the original Z and Nix films? Only copies exist. Given the originals we could solve this case in record time! :)
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How exactly does this vid preclude the limo stopping in the original film? This vid is so far removed from the original that it redefines reality. But it looks great! So is that the bar for you?
And WTF happened to the original Z and Nix films? Only copies exist. Given the originals we could solve this case in record time! :)
How exactly does this vid preclude the limo stopping in the original film?
What makes you say that the Zapruder Film may not be the original?
This vid is so far removed from the original that it redefines reality.
No, it's the same film that's simply been stabilized but I'm glad that it is redefining your reality.
But it looks great!
The reason it looks great is because the original hand held shaky footage is mathematically perfect which just happens to be typical of the Real World.
So is that the bar for you?
Tell me Jack, how much more scientifically validated evidence do you need?
And WTF happened to the original Z and Nix films?
Decades ahead of the rest of the World "they" were spending trillions of dollars so they could produce the advanced CGI workstations with enough computer cycles to render these photorealistic fantasies, how about that!
Given the originals we could solve this case in record time! :)
So you're saying that the above films were somehow altered to create the exact same scene from two totally different angles and these alterations were accomplished back in the 60's, how?
Btw what happened to your backyard photo boasts, after I schooled you, you suddenly disappeared!? LMAO!
JohnM
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Saying something 4 times doesn't make it true.
Saying something 4 times doesn't make it true.
Saying something 4 times doesn't make it true.
Saying something 4 times doesn't make it true.
For sure... saying something 4 times doesn't it make it true - but it seems we've got at least 40 people saying something once (at least) - saying that the president's car stopped or slowed down considerably... The video comparison of NIX and Zapruder, does seem to put it in perspective, and it doesn't seem to have stopped completely from watching the film footage. The motorcycles gaining on the car quickly, does seem to indicate a bit of slowing... And yes, tampering could have taken place, but it does seem it would have been much more difficult to do something like that in 1963 than today.
What really gets me though, is driver Bill Greer rubbernecking toward JFK until the fatal shot... It's a though that point in the plaza was planned to be kill point, and Greer slowed, and waited... until the he was assassinated...
To me, Bill Greer's actions say more than about anything in the whole debate...
(https://image.ibb.co/jk34Ae/ezgif_com_crop_40.gif)
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For sure... saying something 4 times doesn't it make it true - but it seems we've got at least 40 people saying something once (at least) - saying that the president's car stopped or slowed down considerably... The video comparison of NIX and Zapruder, does seem to put it in perspective, and it doesn't seem to have stopped completely from watching the film footage. The motorcycles gaining on the car quickly, does seem to indicate a bit of slowing... And yes, tampering could have taken place, but it does seem it would have been much more difficult to do something like that in 1963 than today.
What really gets me though, is driver Bill Greer rubbernecking toward JFK until the fatal shot... It's a though that point in the plaza was planned to be kill point, and Greer slowed, and waited... until the he was assassinated...
To me, Bill Greer's actions say more than about anything in the whole debate...
(https://image.ibb.co/jk34Ae/ezgif_com_crop_40.gif)
One factor that is seldom taken into consideration with SA Greer is he was 54 years old. His age was at least a contributing factor with regard to his tapping the brakes and Not Immediately employing evasive measures with the JFK Limo.
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So you're saying that the above films were somehow altered to create the exact same scene from two totally different angles and these alterations were accomplished back in the 60's, how?
JohnM
Don't forget Muchmore and Bronson. ::)
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Don't forget Muchmore and Bronson. ::)
We can add to the equation any undiscovered/unknown films that might be found later that would expose their alterations.
But never mind, "they" could have just re-altered the Zapruder film - and the others as well to be in sync with each other.
In conspiracy land "they" could do anything. No limits on what was possible.
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Since when is a POTUS being assassinated on a public street in broad daylight reduced to an "Event"?
I'll just do this once. Are you trying to pick a fight ? Normally I would jump on the opportunity but to show I have a modicum of compassion I will continue to ignore your repeated examples of being an assclown. I understand how punch-drunk you have become from your two year long mental beating that Craig Lamson handed to you on a daily basis. Remember those days when you hung out in the Photography section and pretended you knew something about photography? It's a shame you didn't have a cornerman or someone that could have thrown in the towel for you.
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We can add to the equation any undiscovered/unknown films that might be found later that would expose their alterations.
But never mind, "they" could have just re-altered the Zapruder film - and the others as well to be in sync with each other.
In conspiracy land "they" could do anything. No limits on what was possible.
There is No getting around the Z Film being under Private lock-n-key for its' initial 12 years of existence. No one with certainty has any idea as to what we are looking at Now. NPIC Image Expert Dino Brugioni made this clear.
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There is No getting around the Z Film being under Private lock-n-key for its' initial 12 years of existence. No one with certainty has any idea as to what we are looking at Now. NPIC Image Expert Dino Brugioni made this clear.
Did Life magazine publish some stills of the film? That would mean we still saw some of the film.
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I certainly can understand some apprehension about releasing the film. I remember watching a show Mort Sahl hosted back in the day before an audience upon the first airings of the Zapruder film in 1970-whichever year ('74-'75?) it was. People in the audience were moaning at the graphic nature of the film. Maybe? They thought that wasn't such a good thing to show the public? I would not attach anything sinister to it. Question the decision, fine. Mort Sahl, on one of the Southern California stations back then, one of the independents, I forget, like KHJ or KTTV, channel 9 and 11. Mort is still living. A few videos on Mort, that would really be something if I could find that old show. There was a Conservative on it for balance, a sort of liberal and conservative hosted show.
(http://www.bigskyfilmfest.org/2014-stills/MortFingerWEB.jpg)
Mort Sahl with Tom Brokaw, where were you when JFK was assassinated?
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Okay... the slowing is obvious to everyone. It's line with what is noticed in the films available, and in line with the testimony of quite a few witnesses... even though some say it stopped.
So, here are the questions that every investigator should want answered:
1) Why does the open-top limousine slow down in a most perfect location for an ambush, or sniper fire?
2) Why does driver Bill Greer rubberneck toward the president until the very moment of the fatal shot?
3) Is this just a coincidence... or is it a planned conspiracy to kill the president?
4) What do we really know about Bill Greer?
Those are the questions that should burn deep into our minds, and should be at the forefront of every serious investigation...IMO
In relation to SS protocol, Greer screwed up. But he likely (as many of us would in that situation) wondered WTF was going on behind him. (Did he say anything about backfires or firecrackers? I don't remember)
You lot assign agency to every little detail. But incompetence needs no plan.
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I've read that he thought there might have been a motorcycle backfire or that he had a tire blowout and tapped the brakes...
I really tend to think that is his cover... He is looking steady toward JFK up until the fatal moment...
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What makes you say that the Zapruder Film may not be the original?
Because what we see was edited and copied with an optical printer.
No, it's the same film that's simply been stabilized but I'm glad that it is redefining your reality.
Ya, the same original "edited" film. You are so naive re film analysis it's comical. Garbage in garbage out. The film was not simply stabilized it was masked. There isn't a single original, unedited frame from the Z film yet you claim it is a true representation of the film that somehow proves something.
The reason it looks great is because the original hand held shaky footage is mathematically perfect which just happens to be typical of the Real World.
Huh? WTF are you talking about?
Tell me Jack, how much more scientifically validated evidence do you need?
:D You think that video was scientifically validated evidence? You have shown over and over that science and logic are not your friends.
Decades ahead of the rest of the World "they" were spending trillions of dollars so they could produce the advanced CGI workstations with enough computer cycles to render these photorealistic fantasies, how about that!
WTF are you talking about? You think it is difficult to remove a few frames from 2 films showing the same event? Piece of cake, especially when you don't return the original films.
So you're saying that the above films were somehow altered to create the exact same scene from two totally different angles and these alterations were accomplished back in the 60's, how?
I never claimed the Z film was altered to hide the limo stopping. Speed it up maybe, but I only called you out for claiming a highly edited 4th-party youtube video proves anything. And this coming from someone who knows worse than nothing about image analysis.
The question you LNers keep dodging is why Greer slowed down the limo in the 1st place? Where in the SS handbook does it say at the 1st sign of trouble, slow down, turn around and watch the POTUS get his head blown off?
Btw what happened to your backyard photo boasts, after I schooled you, you suddenly disappeared!? LMAO!
:D YOU schooled ME? Didn't you slink away when I totally discredited you re the backyard photos and your ridiculous notion that your fade gifs proved something? And how can you school me when you know practically nothing about any of this? I don't live on this forum like you do, so why would I need to return to a thread and re-school you when a diehard LNer never learns anything? BTW, do you still think that your morph algorithm tracks facial features like facial recognition does? And do you still think that they prove anything? Mytton ≠ Scientist!
And if you are such a glutton for punishment, go ahead and bump that thread you were talking about and I'll destroy you again. Otherwise, your defeat was complete and your responses were too inconsequential for me to even remember the thread or bother to respond to your BS. LMAO.
JTrojan
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People said "firecrackers", "gunfire", "explosions" but when we find them in the evidence they are usually smiling or waving through it.
Greer and Kellerman react only to JBC screaming IMHO. Only one bullet has entered the vehicle so far and it stopped inside that same man.
So Bill is looking to see what the trouble is or, he was actually psycho.
Again an opinion but to drive from Love Field knowing your heading into an ambush, in an open top vehicle, with no protection takes some doing and summoning up a cheesy smile as you turn onto Elm, that's some bulls, with me driving the limo would be wrecked, fenders hanging off, occupants all distressed...
Assassin used the opportunity of the limo slowing to register the best shot, a gift from god after a nervey start.
Why would the conspirators involve the driver unless the USSS were themselves at the very heart of it?
PS. Greer never admitted hitting the brakes IIRC.
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Why didn't Greer stop the limo for the first shot? Did he wait until Kennedy was shot until he decided to stop/slow down the limo ? Was he waiting for the "stickman" in the infield area to signal him :P ? Inquiring kook bags need answers.
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I've read that he thought there might have been a motorcycle backfire or that he had a tire blowout and tapped the brakes...
I really tend to think that is his cover... He is looking steady toward JFK up until the fatal moment...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Greer
[Excerpt]
Secret Service procedures in place at the time did not allow Greer to take action without orders from senior agent Roy Kellerman, who sat to Greer's right. Kellerman has stated that he shouted, "Let's get out of line, we've been hit," but that Greer apparently turned to look at Kennedy, initiating a fatal delay, before accelerating the car out of the danger zone.[6] As Roy Kellerman told author William Manchester, "Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn't believe me."[7]
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People said "firecrackers", "gunfire", "explosions" but when we find them in the evidence they are usually smiling or waving through it.
Greer and Kellerman react only to JBC screaming IMHO. Only one bullet has entered the vehicle so far and it stopped inside that same man.
So Bill is looking to see what the trouble is or, he was actually psycho.
Again an opinion but to drive from Love Field knowing your heading into an ambush, in an open top vehicle, with no protection takes some doing and summoning up a cheesy smile as you turn onto Elm, that's some bulls, with me driving the limo would be wrecked, fenders hanging off, occupants all distressed...
Assassin used the opportunity of the limo slowing to register the best shot, a gift from god after a nervey start.
Why would the conspirators involve the driver unless the USSS were themselves at the very heart of it?
PS. Greer never admitted hitting the brakes IIRC.
Seems to me Greer's foot pressure on the gas pedal might have relaxed somewhat as he twisted around to look behind. And I don't know why anyone would sign on to a plan that would require him to ride in an open-topped vehicle which would be the target of multiple snipers, world class or not.
Great plan: Get the driver to conspire, at the very real risk of having him getting last-minute cold feet and aborting the mission :D
Let's see a Greer backstory that would, plausibly, point to him as a candidate for such lunacy.
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Does the grimace into the sun caught by dad turn into cheesy grin for Tina? I still think so.
(https://i.imgur.com/mxE8InH.jpg)
But I guess with JBC looking so worried in 95% of the images the same logic would suggest he knew, or at least he was worried about something, personally I have no trouble with the latter.
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Why didn't Greer stop the limo for the first shot? Did he wait until Kennedy was shot until he decided to stop/slow down the limo ? Was he waiting for the "stickman" in the infield area to signal him :P ? Inquiring kook bags need answers.
Here are some kook bag answers for you Proctoboy. Let's begin with the most likely premise, that this was a conspiracy. All but the LNers think Oswald acted alone. The rest of the world thinks he was a patsy. The conspirators empowered you LNer shills to be the DWC (Defenders of the Warren Commission). Your mission was to extend the debate just long enough for all involved to croak. So far, so good, your efforts have managed to provide token opposition and cast doubt on the conspiracy to almost call this one a 100% successful coup d'etat. Only GHWB remains to stick a fork in this one. Once all the conspirators are dead and they get off scott-free, 100% win! But that's like a no-hitter going into the 9th. Otherwise, the conspirators won this one clean when the foxes formed the WC hen house.
Why didn't Greer stop the limo for the first shot?
Where/when was that?
- Then ask Greer why he stopped the limo when turning onto Elm?
- Then ask yourself why Oswald didn't take a shot with JFK 60 feet directly in front of him at a dead stop?
- Then ask yourself why the FBI cut out that section of the Z film?
Did he wait until Kennedy was shot until he decided to stop/slow down the limo ?
No, Greer knew the exact place on Elm to slow the limo down to, the Turkey Shoot Point (TSP). Whether Greer knew why he was slowing the limo down is unknown. Same as the SS agent that got called off of the back of the limo and responded with WTF open arms. Obviously, some SS agents were in on it and some weren't. I doubt that any of them knew how deep the rabbit hole went, they were just pawns with minimal need to know info re the coup. Once it all went down, they were committed to STFU.
So why do I claim the Z film was edited? Because there are obvious splice points in the film and Zapruder did not recall taking his finger off the camera trigger as the motorcade turned onto Elm. But the most important aspect is that the Z film is missing the "1st Overexposure Frame" when you stop then start a film camera. The Z film that we see is clearly a copy and the turn onto Elm has been erased. So what happened at the turn onto Elm and why didn't Oswald take the 1st shot?
JFK wasn't killed until he reached the TSP so the conspirators could paint the narrative that Oswald was shooting at him from the TSBD. The TSP was designed to allow the snipers full access to JFK and if you timed it right, you could make 3 or 4 shots sound like 1, which was the case. One of those shots was from the knoll and it was frangible. This shot blew out a gaping hole in the right temple of JFK. A simultaneous shot from the overpass likely created the hole in the back of JFK's head (which the medicos and Z film editors tried their darndest to erase from the records).
With so much other evidence pointing to Oswald being a patsy, why do you cling to the LN narrative, Proctoboy?
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Yet, 5, F-I-V-E governmental studies say Oswald did it (wikipedia entry for Oswald), I guess all of the studies are tainted and they are all on the take.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/poll-jfk-conspiracy/2152665/
One can say the Lone Nut or Warren Report single bullet believers are in the minority but how does it shake out when the conspiracies one puts out then are:
1. CIA, rogue government elements
2. Mafia/Organized Crime
3. Castro's Cuba....
4. Other theories
Then, the percentages may well come to be similar to those who believe in the LN.
" Five government investigations[n 1] concluded that Oswald shot and killed Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository as the President traveled by motorcade through Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald
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Because what we see was edited and copied with an optical printer.
OMG not again, with absolutely no supporting evidence whatsoever yet another Trojan claim. We have already established that you have no idea of what an "optical printer" does or what it is used for and now you are claiming that the Zapruder Film has been edited with an Optical Printer and again with only empty words.
Time to put up or shut up, what evidence do you have that the Zapruder film has been edited?
JohnM
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Here are some kook bag answers for you Proctoboy. Let's begin with the most likely premise, that this was a conspiracy. All but the LNers think Oswald acted alone. The rest of the world thinks he was a patsy. The conspirators empowered you LNer shills to be the DWC (Defenders of the Warren Commission). Your mission was to extend the debate just long enough for all involved to croak. So far, so good, your efforts have managed to provide token opposition and cast doubt on the conspiracy to almost call this one a 100% successful coup d'etat. Only GHWB remains to stick a fork in this one. Once all the conspirators are dead and they get off scott-free, 100% win! But that's like a no-hitter going into the 9th. Otherwise, the conspirators won this one clean when the foxes formed the WC hen house.
Why didn't Greer stop the limo for the first shot?
Where/when was that?
- Then ask Greer why he stopped the limo when turning onto Elm?
- Then ask yourself why Oswald didn't take a shot with JFK 60 feet directly in front of him at a dead stop?
- Then ask yourself why the FBI cut out that section of the Z film?
Did he wait until Kennedy was shot until he decided to stop/slow down the limo ?
No, Greer knew the exact place on Elm to slow the limo down to, the Turkey Shoot Point (TSP). Whether Greer knew why he was slowing the limo down is unknown. Same as the SS agent that got called off of the back of the limo and responded with WTF open arms. Obviously, some SS agents were in on it and some weren't. I doubt that any of them knew how deep the rabbit hole went, they were just pawns with minimal need to know info re the coup. Once it all went down, they were committed to STFU.
So why do I claim the Z film was edited? Because there are obvious splice points in the film and Zapruder did not recall taking his finger off the camera trigger as the motorcade turned onto Elm. But the most important aspect is that the Z film is missing the "1st Overexposure Frame" when you stop then start a film camera. The Z film that we see is clearly a copy and the turn onto Elm has been erased. So what happened at the turn onto Elm and why didn't Oswald take the 1st shot?
JFK wasn't killed until he reached the TSP so the conspirators could paint the narrative that Oswald was shooting at him from the TSBD. The TSP was designed to allow the snipers full access to JFK and if you timed it right, you could make 3 or 4 shots sound like 1, which was the case. One of those shots was from the knoll and it was frangible. This shot blew out a gaping hole in the right temple of JFK. A simultaneous shot from the overpass likely created the hole in the back of JFK's head (which the medicos and Z film editors tried their darndest to erase from the records).
With so much other evidence pointing to Oswald being a patsy, why do you cling to the LN narrative, Proctoboy?
You're a sick man Daffy. Seek advice. So you're backing about 6 or seven different kook theories and wrapping it up in what is now known as The Daffy Theory. Multiple shooters, sheep dipped, rabbit hole, films altered, SS compliance, coup d'?tat, :-\ OMFG you are one of those all-star nuts. You're a scary dude. I hope we're tracking you offline too.
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You lot assign agency to every little detail. But incompetence needs no plan.
Says the guy who assigns agency to every little thing Oswald happened to do that day.
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Yet, 5, F-I-V-E governmental studies say Oswald did it (wikipedia entry for Oswald),
LOL "Five government investigations". As if they were independent investigations. As if the Secret Service and the Dallas PD even did investigations.
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You mean like lumping "saw Tippit shot" with "saw a man nearby"?
The witnesses only "saw a man nearby"? Really?
Why did you leave out "running from the scene" and "with a gun in his hands"?
You're a joke because you're dishonest.
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LOL "Five government investigations". As if they were independent investigations. As if the Secret Service and the Dallas PD even did investigations.
:'(
If you can't even trust your own government, then why stay?
JohnM
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The witnesses only "saw a man nearby"? Really?
Why did you leave out "running from the scene" and "with a gun in his hands"?
You're a joke because you're dishonest.
You're a joke because you're dishonest.
+1
JohnM
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The witnesses only "saw a man nearby"? Really?
Why did you leave out "running from the scene" and "with a gun in his hands"?
You're a joke because you're dishonest.
Like the people on Patton or Jefferson knew what "scene" he was running from...
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Says the three most dishonest guys on the forum.
-3
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OMG not again, with absolutely no supporting evidence whatsoever yet another Trojan claim. We have already established that you have no idea of what an "optical printer" does or what it is used for and now you are claiming that the Zapruder Film has been edited with an Optical Printer and again with only empty words.
Time to put up or shut up, what evidence do you have that the Zapruder film has been edited?
JohnM
"We have already established that you have no idea of what an "optical printer" does or what it is used for"
:D Who is "we"? Every film since 1920 has used an optical printer for special effects. I have used one myself for scientific research. You are a know-nothing tard. EOS.
I already told you what evidence I have that the Z-film was edited. Let me know specifically which parts you didn't understand.
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You're a sick man Daffy. Seek advice. So you're backing about 6 or seven different kook theories and wrapping it up in what is now known as The Daffy Theory. Multiple shooters, sheep dipped, rabbit hole, films altered, SS compliance, coup d'?tat, :-\ OMFG you are one of those all-star nuts. You're a scary dude. I hope we're tracking you offline too.
So, if that's all you got then, as per usual, then check and mate, mate. :-*
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Like the people on Patton or Jefferson knew what "scene" he was running from...
William Scoggins had no idea what scene the killer was running from?
LOL
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William Scoggins had no idea what scene the killer was running from?
LOL
I wasn't talking about Scoggins.
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I wasn't talking about Scoggins.
Scoggins was on Patton.
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The witnesses only "saw a man nearby"? Really?
Why did you leave out "running from the scene" and "with a gun in his hands"?
You're a joke because you're dishonest.
John I. is the single most dishonest poster on this forum which is why I don't respond to his nonsense. My favorite example was when he posted a copy of Oswald's arrest report that was stamped "deceased" making clear that information was added to the report after 11.22. When I noted that, he removed that report and posted an earlier version without the stamp and then repeatedly asked me where I saw the word "deceased" on the report. It's one thing to be nut a job, and even worse to be a dishonest kook. It is all the more humorous that he takes himself so seriously after being humiliated so many times on this forum. Like claiming Marina MUST have known who the VP was since she had lived in the US for a couple years and could not possibly have mistaken the VP as a reference to Nixon. Apparently not realizing that Marina was asked this and confirmed she had never heard of LBJ before the assassination. And his suggestion that Oswald somehow bought a movie ticket on the morning of 11.22 to explain how he enters the Texas Theater without doing so that afternoon. Not realizing that the box office didn't open until after noon. LOL. He is a joke.
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You are a fine poster Richard. I do note, that while not outright uncivil, it seems John I does have his share of negative words to label people with.
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So, if that's all you got then, as per usual, then check and mate, mate. :-*
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1773/42173922970_cc287497ee.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27fLnYW) (https://flic.kr/p/27fLnYW) by (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152468420@N07/),
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Sure, that's why he didn't notice suspect cross Patton in front of his cab.
100% irrelevant unless you're suggesting that William Scoggins really wasn't sitting in his cab parked on Patton. Are you?
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John I. is the single most dishonest poster on this forum which is why I don't respond to his nonsense. My favorite example was when he posted a copy of Oswald's arrest report that was stamped "deceased" making clear that information was added to the report after 11.22. When I noted that, he removed that report and posted an earlier version without the stamp and then repeatedly asked me where I saw the word "deceased" on the report. It's one thing to be nut a job, and even worse to be a dishonest kook. It is all the more humorous that he takes himself so seriously after being humiliated so many times on this forum. Like claiming Marina MUST have known who the VP was since she had lived in the US for a couple years and could not possibly have mistaken the VP as a reference to Nixon. Apparently not realizing that Marina was asked this and confirmed she had never heard of LBJ before the assassination. And his suggestion that Oswald somehow bought a movie ticket on the morning of 11.22 to explain how he enters the Texas Theater without doing so that afternoon. Not realizing that the box office didn't open until after noon. LOL. He is a joke.
Well said, Richard.
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You're so transparent it almost hurts...
Mr. SCOGGINS. I noticed he stopped down there, and I wasn't paying too much attention to the man, you see, just used to see him every day, but then I kind of looked down the street, saw this, someone, that looked to me like he was going west, now, I couldn't exactly say whether he was going west or was in the process of turning around, but he was facing west when I saw him.
But didn't he just cross right in front of Scoggins going east?
Oh, he also missed Markham screaming her head off...
Mr. BELIN. You never actually saw her standing on the street, did you?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I never actually observed her there.
Blah blah blah
I noticed you did not respond to my question. Are you suggesting that Scoggins was not there?
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I'm questioning when he was there.
If he was there how did he miss both the suspect crossing right in front of him and the only alleged witness to the shooting, screaming?
You only have one witness (Markham) claiming the suspect crossed Patton. One uncorroborated witness.
As expected, you couldn't deal with the quotes even though they came right out of the WC hearings.
Was Scoggins sitting in his cab on Patton at Tenth facing north when Tippit was shot? This is a simple yes or no question.
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You're a sick man Daffy. Seek advice. So you're backing about 6 or seven different kook theories and wrapping it up in what is now known as The Daffy Theory. Multiple shooters, sheep dipped, rabbit hole, films altered, SS compliance, coup d'?tat, :-\ OMFG you are one of those all-star nuts. You're a scary dude. I hope we're tracking you offline too.
Hahaha "The Daffy Theory".
You're a scary dude.
Thumb1:
JohnM
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John I. is the single most dishonest poster on this forum which is why I don't respond to his nonsense. My favorite example was when he posted a copy of Oswald's arrest report that was stamped "deceased" making clear that information was added to the report after 11.22. When I noted that, he removed that report and posted an earlier version without the stamp and then repeatedly asked me where I saw the word "deceased" on the report. It's one thing to be nut a job, and even worse to be a dishonest kook.
Patently false. I proved it at the time by noting that the post in question had no timestamp showing that it had ever been modified.
"Richard" made the false argument that since somebody later stamped the arrest report "deceased", that was proof that the arrest report was written after Oswald was killed. One look in the Dallas Police archives for the original arrest report shows that "Richard"'s argument was pure BS. But instead of being accountable for his embarrassing mistake, he tries to deflect it on me.
Then there was that embarrassing time that "Richard" tried to claim that a power outage in the TSBD would have turned off the Hertz sign, even though it was not even connected to the building's power supply. He tried to deflect that onto me too.
It is all the more humorous that he takes himself so seriously after being humiliated so many times on this forum. Like claiming Marina MUST have known who the VP was since she had lived in the US for a couple years and could not possibly have mistaken the VP as a reference to Nixon.
Hoo boy. Marina said that he said "Nixon". Get over it. Your silly argument is just a lame excuse. There is no evidence for your contention that Oswald just said "the vice-president". None.
And his suggestion that Oswald somehow bought a movie ticket on the morning of 11.22 to explain how he enters the Texas Theater without doing so that afternoon. Not realizing that the box office didn't open until after noon. LOL. He is a joke.
Another "Richard" lie. Julia Postal said she wasn't sure if he bought a ticket or not. Again, get over it. It doesn't matter when the box office opened. Your claim that he definitely didn't buy a ticket is unsupported. You're using your unfounded assumption that Oswald could only have bought a ticket when Brewer thought he entered the theater in order to support your equally unfounded assumption that he never bought a ticket.
If you have to repeatedly lie in order to make an argument that I'm dishonest, then what does that say about you?
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Only Scoggins knew; based on the evidence probably no.
Ever seen Scoggins' trip sheet or manifest?
So we can add William Scoggins to the list of those framing Saint Lee of the Oswalds?
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Another "Richard" lie. Julia Postal said she wasn't sure if he bought a ticket or not. Again, get over it.
Huh?
Julia Postal herself testified that Oswald didn't buy a ticket.
Mr. BALL. What did you see him do after became around the corner?
Mrs. POSTAL. Well, I didn't actually----because I stepped out of the box office and went to the front and was facing west. I was right at the box office facing west, because I thought .the police were stopping up quite a ways. Well, just as I turned around then Johnny Brewer was standing there and he asked me if the fellow that ducked in bought a ticket, and I said, "No; by golly, he didn't," and turned around expecting to see him.
JohnM
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I'm questioning when he was there.
If he was there how did he miss both the suspect crossing right in front of him and the only alleged witness to the shooting, screaming?
Tom, all CT's try so hard to isolate every piece of evidence but evidence doesn't exist alone.
Callaway corroborates Scoggins, see that wasn't hard.
Mr. BALL. And what did you see?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Well, I could see I was still--before I got to the sidewalk, I could see this taxicab parked down on Patton. I saw the cabdriver beside his cab, and saw a man cutting from one side of the street to the other. That would be the east side of Patton and over to the west side of Patton. And he was running. And he had a gun in his hand, his right hand.
Scoggins.
Mr. BELIN. Which man did you see fall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. The policeman. I was excited when I heard them shots, and I started to get out-- since we went back over there the other day and reenacted that scene, I must have seen him fall as I was getting out of my cab, because I got out of the cab, and in the process of getting out of the cab I seen this guy coming around, so I got out of sight. I started to cross the street, but I seen I didn't have enough time to cross the street before he got down there, so I got back behind the cab, and as he cut across that yard I heard him running into some bushes, and I looked up and seen him going south on Patton and then when I jumped back in my cab I called my dispatcher.
JohnM
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Huh?
Julia Postal herself testified that Oswald didn't buy a ticket.
Mr. BALL. What did you see him do after became around the corner?
Mrs. POSTAL. Well, I didn't actually----because I stepped out of the box office and went to the front and was facing west. I was right at the box office facing west, because I thought .the police were stopping up quite a ways. Well, just as I turned around then Johnny Brewer was standing there and he asked me if the fellow that ducked in bought a ticket, and I said, "No; by golly, he didn't," and turned around expecting to see him.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/postal-fbi.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/brewer-affidavit.jpg)
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(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/postal-fbi.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/brewer-affidavit.jpg)
Well John there is a reason that hearsay isn't allowed in court and you just proved why, thanks!
JohnM
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Well John there is a reason that hearsay isn't allowed in court and you just proved why, thanks!
You absolutely love hearsay. Like what Oswald supposedly said during interrogation, or what Linnie Mae Randle supposedly told Bookhout . . .
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Tom, all CT's try so hard to isolate every piece of evidence but evidence doesn't exist alone.
Callaway corroborates Scoggins, see that wasn't hard.
Mr. BALL. And what did you see?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Well, I could see I was still--before I got to the sidewalk, I could see this taxicab parked down on Patton. I saw the cabdriver beside his cab, and saw a man cutting from one side of the street to the other. That would be the east side of Patton and over to the west side of Patton. And he was running. And he had a gun in his hand, his right hand.
Scoggins.
Mr. BELIN. Which man did you see fall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. The policeman. I was excited when I heard them shots, and I started to get out-- since we went back over there the other day and reenacted that scene, I must have seen him fall as I was getting out of my cab, because I got out of the cab, and in the process of getting out of the cab I seen this guy coming around, so I got out of sight. I started to cross the street, but I seen I didn't have enough time to cross the street before he got down there, so I got back behind the cab, and as he cut across that yard I heard him running into some bushes, and I looked up and seen him going south on Patton and then when I jumped back in my cab I called my dispatcher.
JohnM
Great post, John. That's what I was leading up to. Will Sorenson now claim that Callaway wasn't there?
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You absolutely love hearsay.
Another typical Iacoletti exaggeration because Hearsay and I have only been on a first date and I really don't know how I feel, I really respect her but I wouldn't call it love.
Like what Oswald supposedly said during interrogation
Yep, what Oswald supposedly said during the interrogations really deserves a lot of LNer love!? Wtf?
Oswald denied killing Kennedy
Oswald denied killing Tippit.
Oswald denied owning a rifle.
Oswlad denied he was in the BY photos.
Oswald denied being on the 6th floor @12:30
Oswald denied living at Neeley Street.
Oswald denied carrying a long package.
Oswald denied putting anything on the back seat.
JohnM
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Great post, John. That's what I was leading up to. Will Sorenson now claim that Callaway wasn't there?
Yep, for some reason the CTs just can't see the big picture and keep isolating the most pathetic individual discrepancies to try and create a little doubt but what happened is more than clear.
Oswald's journey from Tippit's murder to the discarded jacket carpark is corroborated by a stack of eyewitnesses. Most of these eyewitnesses one after another all positively identified one man Lee Harvey Oswald, wearing a light colored jacket, fiddling with a hand weapon, while traveling in only one direction.
(http://blogs.denverpost.com/library/wp-content/blogs.dir/78/files/2013/10/rsz_a_tippitmap.jpg)
JohnM
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So who was arrested and taken out of the balcony and out the back door of the Texas Theater while Oswald was being taken out the front of the theater and how did this mob of people show up that wanted to tear LHO limb from limb . Don't ever sneak into a theater without paying as you will be beaten and charged with killing JFK & JD Tippit and then of course be murdered on National Television in front of millions watching. To bad they were dealing with the Keystone cops back then. I actually thought that Oswald was not supposed to make it out of the theater , alive . I hope there are never any LNer's on a jury that is trying an important case like the JFK Assassination. Jeez
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By the way, the car stopped ,as per a lot of witnesses , a whole lot of witnesses .
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By the way, the car stopped ,as per a lot of witnesses , a whole lot of witnesses .
There was a whole lot of witnesses who said the Limo only slowed.
JohnM
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So who was arrested and taken out of the balcony and out the back door of the Texas Theater while Oswald was being taken out the front of the theater and how did this mob of people show up that wanted to tear LHO limb from limb . Don't ever sneak into a theater without paying as you will be beaten and charged with killing JFK & JD Tippit and then of course be murdered on National Television in front of millions watching. To bad they were dealing with the Keystone cops back then. I actually thought that Oswald was not supposed to make it out of the theater , alive . I hope there are never any LNer's on a jury that is trying an important case like the JFK Assassination. Jeez
and out the back door of the Texas Theater
Wasn't the only guy who saw Oswald being arrested out the back of the Texas Theater the same guy who worked a couple of shops away and says he wasn't aware for over two decades that Oswald was arrested out the front? As if!
(https://s15.postimg.cc/5ch7q2swb/crossfirea_Haire.jpg)
(http://threeshotswerefired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/theatre.jpg)
JohnM
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Wasn't the only guy who saw Oswald being arrested out the back of the Texas Theater the same guy who worked a couple of shops away and says he wasn't aware for over two decades that Oswald was arrested out the front? As if!
The claim that he wasn't aware for decades that Oswald was taken to the waiting car through the front of the theatre might be the single most absurd claim in the whole of CT absurdities.
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Another typical Iacoletti exaggeration because Hearsay and I have only been on a first date and I really don't know how I feel, I really respect her but I wouldn't call it love.
Yep, what Oswald supposedly said during the interrogations really deserves a lot of LNer love!? Wtf?
Oswald denied killing Kennedy
Oswald denied killing Tippit.
Oswald denied owning a rifle.
Oswlad denied he was in the BY photos.
Oswald denied being on the 6th floor @12:30
Oswald denied living at Neeley Street.
Oswald denied carrying a long package.
Oswald denied putting anything on the back seat.
JohnM
Iacoletti dismisses hearsay, except when he doesn't.
John, great job of kicking Iacoletti's ass in this thread. He should be embarrassed.
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Iacoletti dismisses hearsay, except when he doesn't.
John, great job of kicking Iacoletti's ass in this thread. He should be embarrassed.
Mr. Oswald: I deny killing Kennedy. I deny killing Tippit. I deny owning a rifle. I deny being in the BY photos. I deny being on the 6th floor @12:30. I deny living on Neeley Street. I deny carrying a long package. I deny putting anything on the back seat. I'm innocent.
Mr. Iacoletti: Okay, so can go.
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Mr. Oswald: I deny killing Kennedy. I deny killing Tippit. I deny owning a rifle. I deny being in the BY photos. I deny being on the 6th floor @12:30. I deny living on Neeley Street. I deny carrying a long package. I deny putting anything on the back seat. I'm innocent.
Mr. Iacoletti: Okay, so can go.
Mr. Iacoletti: Is there anybody prepared to admit guilt for these crimes? I mean without an admission I don't see how we can ever bring anyone to account. Oh, by the way if you are prepared to admit guilt please come by police HQ this evening between 6 and 8 pm and bring along some eye witnesses who will swear to have seen you pointing a rifle at the car followed by some very loud bangs. Six or seven witnesses will suffice. If they are priests or nuns all the better. Thank you.
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Fifty-nine witnesses saw the limousine either come to a near stop or stopped. The odds of them all being "mistaken" are astronomical. For the full details see my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series #s 215-218.
Straw man.
I haven't seen anyone claim that the limo did not slow considerably.
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Fifty-nine witnesses saw the limousine either come to a near stop or stopped. The odds of them all being "mistaken" are astronomical. For the full details see my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series #s 215-218.
You can toss out those who say it stopped. They are WRONG.
Those who say it slowed are correct but those who say it came to a near stop show poor judgement.
To argue the car stopped is to claim that impossible film tampering went on. Anyone who continues to make that claim would have zero cred even at a convention for kooks.
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Another LNer that thinks they know better than people actually there. If you LNers knew the evidence then you would realize the predicament "slowing down" puts you in.
So you were there?
Do you not understand that if someone says the car stopped and another says the car only slowed down then they can't both be correct. This could be explained to a four year old and they'd understand. Why do you struggle with such basic logic?
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It is ironic that people who support the WC's claims do NOT even know what those claims are. Thanks for admitting that the limousine slowed down. You've just sunk the WC. KUTGW.
Really? I just sunk the WC? What about the House Select Committee on Assassinations? Did I sink that too?
You need to get out into the sunlight. Years of running around in that rabbit warren has affected your mind.
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It is apparent that you are clueless about what your beloved WCR said. Thanks for showing that they were full of you know what. 👍👏
You've got nothing
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Another typical Iacoletti exaggeration because Hearsay and I have only been on a first date and I really don't know how I feel, I really respect her but I wouldn't call it love.
...and you also said you'd call her.
Yep, what Oswald supposedly said during the interrogations really deserves a lot of LNer love!? Wtf?
Oswald denied killing Kennedy
Oswald denied killing Tippit.
Oswald denied owning a rifle.
Oswlad denied he was in the BY photos.
Oswald denied being on the 6th floor @12:30
Oswald denied living at Neeley Street.
Oswald denied carrying a long package.
Oswald denied putting anything on the back seat.
Yeah, you just call those "provable" lies, and your proof is that they must be lies because he killed Kennedy.
But then when the hearsay is that he admitted carrying a revolver, or hitting a cop then all of a sudden the hearsay magically becomes reliable again. Because, you know, special pleading.
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Iacoletti dismisses hearsay, except when he doesn't.
John, great job of kicking Iacoletti's ass in this thread. He should be embarrassed.
Says the guy who dismisses hearsay except when he doesn't.
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Mr. Iacoletti: Is there anybody prepared to admit guilt for these crimes? I mean without an admission I don't see how we can ever bring anyone to account. Oh, by the way if you are prepared to admit guilt please come by police HQ this evening between 6 and 8 pm and bring along some eye witnesses who will swear to have seen you pointing a rifle at the car followed by some very loud bangs. Six or seven witnesses will suffice. If they are priests or nuns all the better. Thank you.
Since we're just making up dialog and attaching people's names to it....
Messrs Chapman, Mytton, Howsley, and Brown: We can't demonstrate that you shot the president but we just know in our hearts that you did. Only a guilty person would deny his guilt. Therefore, guilty!
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And what does any of that have to do with his positive identification of Lee Oswald as the killer?
Unfair lineups are still unreliable. And Scoggins didn't see anybody kill anybody.
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Since we're just making up dialog and attaching people's names to it....
Messrs Chapman, Mytton, Howsley, and Brown: We can't demonstrate that you shot the president but we just know in our hearts that you did. Only a guilty person would deny his guilt. Therefore, guilty!
There are no guilty prisoners
Just ask any one of them
You believe Dirty Harvey because you want to.
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If you can't even trust your own government, then why stay?
JohnM
Quote the American forefathers telling us to trust the government.
Your hero Oswald had the balls to leave a country he didn't trust but you suck up to the system and presumably hold a steady job so your taxes fund the very people you despise. Go figure!
Rob, grow a pair and be Man like your Forefathers and fight for what you believe in because so far all you are doing is polluting this Forum with an endless supply of bandwidth wasting threads that mostly just ironically "sink" out of sight without being read.
JohnM
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Here's some hearsay for ya...
"He can As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' and holler he wants to, but that's the man I saw running from the scene." - William Scoggins
(Dale Myers interview with Jim Leavelle)
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There are no guilty prisoners
Just ask any one of them
How about asking the 29 or so other people who Henry Wade and the Dallas PD falsely railroaded?
You believe Dirty Harvey because you want to.
You can either prove that what you believe on faith is true beyond a reasonable doubt or you cannot.
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Here's some hearsay for ya...
"He can As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' and holler he wants to, but that's the man I saw running from the scene." - William Scoggins
(Dale Myers interview with Jim Leavelle)
Case in point. You're happy to accept hearsay, except when you don't.
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How about asking the 29 or so other people who Henry Wade and the Dallas PD falsely railroaded?
In just one example, if a woman says that a man raped her and later 21st century DNA technology was used to prove otherwise how the heck can Henry Wade be held responsible.
JohnM
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As Wade would say , "He's guilty until proven to be guiltier" ! There is no telling how many people Wade had a hand in, putting behind bars who were innocent . If Oswald would have been found guilty of killing JFK and Tippit by himself with no help from anyone , then I would agree with the proof of LHO being the killer of both men. The evidence changed from Dallas to Bethesda . That trial never got to take place because Jack Ruby was allowed to kill LHO in front of everyone. Oswald was calm and collected during his whole time of being behind bars in Dallas. If LHO did the shootings , he sure didn't act like it. All of LBJ's problems went away the second that LHO died at the hands of Ruby . And by the way, the limo stopped for that last shot that hit JFK in the head . Greer turned and watched as JFK had the back of his head blown out. LHO shot nobody on Nov. 22nd 1963 ! That's right ! The car stopped !
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As Wade would say , "He's guilty until proven to be guiltier" ! There is no telling how many people Wade had a hand in, putting behind bars who were innocent . If Oswald would have been found guilty of killing JFK and Tippit by himself with no help from anyone , then I would agree with the proof of LHO being the killer of both men. The evidence changed from Dallas to Bethesda . That trial never got to take place because Jack Ruby was allowed to kill LHO in front of everyone. Oswald was calm and collected during his whole time of being behind bars in Dallas. If LHO did the shootings , he sure didn't act like it. All of LBJ's problems went away the second that LHO died at the hands of Ruby . And by the way, the limo stopped for that last shot that hit JFK in the head . Greer turned and watched as JFK had the back of his head blown out. LHO shot nobody on Nov. 22nd 1963 ! That's right ! The car stopped !
It always comes back to Bill Greer... rubbernecking, slowing the car, waiting to turn and speed up until JFK's head is blown off. It is the best visual proof of a conspiracy....
(https://image.ibb.co/cHs2WK/Screen_Shot_2018_08_05_at_2_52_48_PM.png)
(https://image.ibb.co/jk34Ae/ezgif_com_crop_40.gif)
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Jake , your visual of Greer turning to see the head shot at the same time speaks volumes for how JFK was murdered that day . Two frontal shots and two shots from the rear. The car stopped ! JFK was hit 4 times which is already more than the 3 shot scenario which the Warren Commission tried to sell us in their " 26 " volumes . Add the ricochet that hit Tague , the bullets that hit JC , the bullet that hit the chrome molding above the rearview mirror and a bullet that went through the front windshield from front to back. Those who don't get it , will never get it !
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Jake , your visual of Greer turning to see the head shot at the same time speaks volumes for how JFK was murdered that day . Two frontal shots and two shots from the rear. The car stopped ! JFK was hit 4 times which is already more than the 3 shot scenario which the Warren Commission tried to sell us in their " 26 " volumes . Add the ricochet that hit Tague , the bullets that hit JC , the bullet that hit the chrome molding above the rearview mirror and a bullet that went through the front windshield from front to back. Those who don't get it , will never get it !
Don't forget the 1 bullet that all by itself destroys the LN story line. The Pristine Bullet.