JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on July 24, 2018, 01:29:58 PM
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(http://likeobscurevainefforts.com/jfk6.jpg)
Why would a sniper wait until a target is eluding a perfect kill zone ...turning off and heading away into cover of signs and trees and then open fire?
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(http://likeobscurevainefforts.com/jfk6.jpg)
Why would a sniper wait until a target is eluding a perfect kill zone ...turning off and heading away into cover of signs and trees and then open fire?
You would need to conduct a seance since only Oswald knows for sure. A couple of possible reasons though. First, he probably didn't want the SS facing him. Second, his target was JFK. To hit him from the front there was a windshield and two rows of people between him and JFK. He has a clear shot at JFK from behind. Third, Oswald was a sneaky coward. Back shooting fit his mentality.
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That would have been a hell of a shot for Oswald to make from the breakroom . You guys just don't get it.
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That would have been a hell of a shot for Oswald to make from the breakroom . You guys just don't get it.
Yes, the fantasy conspirators spent months or years setting Oswald up as the patsy and then at the moment of the assassination just let him wander off where he could have inadvertently obtained an alibi. LOL. I guess they got lucky that Oswald didn't do what most everyone else did and go outside to watch the motorcade. Or otherwise have a credible alibi by being in the presence of any of his co-workers. Just sitting alone in that breakroom eating that two plus foot long sandwich he brought to work that morning in a gigantic bag. How lucky can a conspirator get?
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(http://likeobscurevainefforts.com/jfk6.jpg)
Why would a sniper wait until a target is eluding a perfect kill zone ...turning off and heading away into cover of signs and trees and then open fire?
The real sniper, wanted to create the false impression that the shots came from the 6th floor window, so to create this from their position in the Dal Tex they did not have an arc for a shot until the limo had reached Elm.
The limo was not in the line of fire for the sniper while it was on Houston, it might have came into the sights just as it made the turn onto Elm
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You would need to conduct a seance since only Oswald knows for sure. A couple of possible reasons though. First, he probably didn't want the SS facing him. Second, his target was JFK. To hit him from the front there was a windshield and two rows of people between him and JFK. He has a clear shot at JFK from behind. Third, Oswald was a sneaky coward. Back shooting fit his mentality.
First..supposedly left $$ and ring behind ...he was ready for the end...supposedly. Hell shoot the bodyguards they were sitting ducks too.
second...there was no windshield in the way silly. What windshield from 60 ft up?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5qV3mFjaSN_GSmLkI3sagK7DEg2-4qQRaxxwZWtz5IPNFHtC1MA)
A perfectly clear shot right between the eyes.
Grip the reality for once.
Third...how would you know third? Were you there?
Oh --you must have held a seance while you were sitting in the restroom >:(
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Going into the turn... grandma could make the shot---
(https://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2013/07/13/bfeadfbb-1c4e-11e3-9918-005056850598/resize/620x465/4e9f7e49f2951193938be0db41cd2f9f/LHO_ViewFromBookDepository.jpg)
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To hit him from the front there was a windshield and two rows of people between him and JFK.
Where did you get that silly idea?
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/jfk-houston.png)
Third, Oswald was a sneaky coward. Back shooting fit his mentality.
In other words, that's what Oswald did, because that's what Oswald did.
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First..supposedly left $$ and ring behind ...he was ready for the end...supposedly. Hell shoot the bodyguards they were sitting ducks too.
second...there was no windshield in the way silly. What windshield from 60 ft up?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5qV3mFjaSN_GSmLkI3sagK7DEg2-4qQRaxxwZWtz5IPNFHtC1MA)
A perfectly clear shot right between the eyes.
Grip the reality for once.
Third...how would you know third? Were you there?
Oh --you must have held a seance while you were sitting in the restroom >:(
You asked a question that necessitates speculation since the assassin Oswald is the only one who knows for sure. Then you criticize a reasoned response for containing speculation. Typical kook. Do you really believe that photo you posted shows JFKs position on Houston St. from the 6th floor? LOL. There were two rows of people in front of JFK. Even if possible to have made the shot, why risk it when he had a clear view of JFK from behind? Oswald certainly recognized the inherent dangers of assassinating the president as evidenced by his leaving his wedding ring and money with Marina. He accepted the likelihood of arrest or death in the commission of this act but that doesn't mean he would be foolhardy by blasting away while the SS were facing him. Why do that when he had a clear shot at JFK from behind? Suggesting he would have an OK Corral type shootout with the secret service is CTer comedy gold. That's worthy of Caprio. He at least wanted to commit the act before getting killed.
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Yes, the fantasy conspirators spent months or years setting Oswald up as the patsy and then at the moment of the assassination just let him wander off where he could have inadvertently obtained an alibi. LOL.
"Richard's" fantasy conspirators strawman. LOL.
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Oswald certainly recognized the inherent dangers of assassinating the president as evidenced by his leaving his wedding ring and money with Marina.
Nobody making a silly argument like that has any business calling other people kooks.
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(http://likeobscurevainefforts.com/jfk6.jpg)
Why would a sniper wait until a target is eluding a perfect kill zone ...turning off and heading away into cover of signs and trees and then open fire?
Please study up on sniper fire and leading the target.
It is much easier to lead the target as it is heading away from you (in an almost straight direction) than it is to lead the target as it is heading towards you.
Oswald knew this. You do not, apparently.
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Please study up on sniper fire and leading the target.
It is much easier to lead the target as it is heading away from you (in an almost straight direction) than it is to lead the target as it is heading towards you.
Oswald knew this. You do not, apparently.
That's right Bill, there are a number of reasons why Oswald's rifle rest boxes along with Oswald's prints were orientated down Elm Street.
1. As you say when you're high and the target is moving towards you it quickly drops out of your sights but when the Limo was going down Elm street the limo stays in the sights longer and considering that Elm street goes downhill that only adds to the available time.
In the following gif in frames 1 and 2 you can see that the Limo when coming down Houston doesn't stay in the sights for very long.
In frame 3 when the limo is passing right in front the Limo only is in the sights for a fraction of a second
But in frame 4 when the Limo is headed away the limo is in the sights for a longer time and is the more logical shot.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/8g2dlfe2j/Angular_Velocity_zps22126e5b.gif)
2. To fire down Houston puts you in full sunlight instead of in the relative shadows.
3. In the open Oswald would be shot by a hail of machine gun bullets.
4. To shoot directly down when Kennedy was right in front would mean that Oswald would need to be virtually standing to pull off that shot.
5. The angular velocity is highest when the target is moving in a line in front of you.
JohnM
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Please study up on sniper fire and leading the target.
You guys can quit pretending that you know and that Oswald knew something about combat.
He was never engaged in any armed conflict.
If any of you critics were deployed to Viet Nam or in the Mid-east please speak up about your combat training....I will read it with interest.
A really serious gunman armed with a piece of crap loaded with four bullets?
Ridiculous!
Oswald had no history of having shot anybody except supposedly himself.....get real.
From Mad Jack Mytonn's post earlier point by point-----------------
1. That silly clip does not show a 120 degree left turn at 5-8 MPH or less-It was speeded up coming to and then slowed down going away- that was really slick ...anyone can see that- -how pitiful!
2. The sunlight actually had more glare coming from the west.
Look at the shadow on the window again and look at the kids face observing the event....how the sun is shining directly into his face.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAkC7jcrwCc7p74UNpCeHXcrBp4hP0_OyOyQWumNtApZfFJKeWcA)
3. A gunman from an elevated position could theoretically take out everybody in both cars.
4. Oswald standing? Ha! Didn't some witness say he was?
5. (http://www.petersenshunting.com/files/2015/06/prone.jpg)
A left handed shooter would take a better prone position swinging to the right. However, a righthander swinging a track to the right is awkward. No, take the shot at the turn.
The Secret Service guys were impotent as far as firing into elevated windows random scam.
Do you guys suggest...
(https://dallasnews.imgix.net/GeraldHill_Window.jpg?auto=format%2Cenhance&crop=faces%2Centropy&fit=crop&q=40&or=0&w=1024&h=543)
That's DPD Sgt Jerry Hill but I think it's the wrong window. :D
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It's a very simple matter of why he didn't take the shot when the car was on Houston - because he knew that if he missed, he'd have help further down on Elm Street. That way, if he missed, he would give himself more time to put the gun between the boxes, waltz down to the 2nd floor whistling a tune, buy an ice cold Coca Cola, crack it open and take a refreshing first sip.
He knew, too, that no one would suspect him because of his casual Coca Cola drinking demeanor. And sure enough that's what happened when he was confronted by Baker.
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Prove that "Oswald knew this."
Well duh, Oswald's rifle rest boxes and Oswald prints were all orientated down Elm street therefore the only logical deduction is that "Oswald knew this".
JohnM
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That's right Bill, there are a number of reasons why Oswald's rifle rest boxes along with Oswald's prints were orientated down Elm Street.
1. As you say when you're high and the target is moving towards you it quickly drops out of your sights but when the Limo was going down Elm street the limo stays in the sights longer and considering that Elm street goes downhill that only adds to the available time.
In the following gif in frames 1 and 2 you can see that the Limo when coming down Houston doesn't stay in the sights for very long.
In frame 3 when the limo is passing right in front the Limo only is in the sights for a fraction of a second
But in frame 4 when the Limo is headed away the limo is in the sights for a longer time and is the more logical shot.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/8g2dlfe2j/Angular_Velocity_zps22126e5b.gif)
JohnM
That's great work, John.
I am always amazed to see others speak authoritatively on a subject that they really have no clue about.
This is not to discourage new members from posting. This is simply an observation on the posting characteristics of forum member Jerry Freeman.
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That presentation above is just stunning, no matter who made it, posted it, what side they are on. Probably one of the best and most convincing exhibits posted on message boards. The circumstances, "basic circumstances" of the JFK assassination are so well known, most can identify with what it says. IMHO.
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That's great work, John.
Seconded
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That presentation above is just stunning, no matter who made it, posted it, what side they are on. Probably one of the best and most convincing exhibits posted on message boards. The circumstances, "basic circumstances" of the JFK assassination are so well known, most can identify with what it says. IMHO.
Ct's have been destroyed on this issue over and over again on this forum. John just did it again and you would think Ct's would give up on the point in their search for the truth, but we all know they won't.
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It's a very simple matter of why he didn't take the shot when the car was on Houston - because he knew that if he missed, he'd have help further down on Elm Street. That way, if he missed, he would give himself more time to put the gun between the boxes, waltz down to the 2nd floor whistling a tune, buy an ice cold Coca Cola, crack it open and take a refreshing first sip.
He knew, too, that no one would suspect him because of his casual Coca Cola drinking demeanor. And sure enough that's what happened when he was confronted by Baker.
I would love to see a list of actual evidence you dismiss while at the same time posting this.
One huge problem with you theory. If Oswald
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But in frame 4 when the Limo is headed away the limo is in the sights for a longer time and is the more logical shot.
Don't you guys claim that he used the iron sights?
Whatever it takes...
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Oswald's rifle rest boxes
LOL
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That presentation above is just stunning, no matter who made it, posted it, what side they are on. Probably one of the best and most convincing exhibits posted on message boards. The circumstances, "basic circumstances" of the JFK assassination are so well known, most can identify with what it says. IMHO.
Cool use of the JFK Reloaded game. I know some people thought that it was in bad taste to make such a game, but it helps visualize things.
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That would have been a hell of a shot for Oswald to make from the breakroom
Tell that to your fellow Mensa buddies who claim Oswald was standing on the front step
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Tell that to your fellow Mensa buddies who claim Oswald was standing on the front step
Just as much evidence for either of these things as there is for Oswald being on the 6th floor with a rifle.
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Don't you guys claim that he used the iron sights?
Whatever it takes...
Please take a moment to explain what difference it makes whether Oswald used the irons versus the scope, in relation to leading the target. I can't wait to hear this one.
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Please take a moment to explain what difference it makes whether Oswald used the irons versus the scope, in relation to leading the target. I can't wait to hear this one.
A non- issue it seems.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360562
But if you're going to smuggle in a rifle somewhere and not use the scope then why carry in a scope?
Wouldn't matter if it was a top of the line Bushnell...if it's not sighted in properly, then it's worthless.
Looks like we don't have any combat veterans here.
Do we have any experienced hunters?
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most of crowd is looking towards TSBD as JFK limo approaches, so more lilely shooter is seen if trying to shoot on approach.
most of crowd is looking away from TSBD, and thus away from shooter, when JFK limo moves down Elm st. so less likely shooter is seen taking shots from behind.
What is odd imo, is why the SW gunman, seen by Arnold Rowland, at 12:15pm, did not return to that same SW window. Its actually the best window to shoot from behind, because the following reasons:
1. No adjacent building nearby to the the snipers SW corner, unlike the SE window which has an East window that allows LOS from any persons on upper floors of Daltex building.
2. Allows a clear LOS to JFK in the limo, even if SS agents were riding on the rear, because the shooters angle is slighty to the side of the limo.
3. A much smaller % of the crowd would have a visual to the shooter on this side TSBD, than at the SE window.
4. The shooter can easily use the lefthand corner of the window ledge as his rifle rest with less obstruction from pipes to the left of that window, and fewer boxes stacked up.
5. The distance to the staircase, or to the west elevator is 100 ft less distance than from SE window. There is no zigzagging required either, it is a straight line to the stairs/west elevator, unobstructed.
6. there are several West windows along that west aisle that the shooter could have thrown his rfile out to an accomplice standing below, on the roof top of the loading dock annex on that side the building. That accomplice could have then taken rifle and exited off the roof or tossed it to someone in car beside edge of that side of the annex. The rifle would be gone from TSBD as quickly as 20 sec posts shots.
7. shooter could have taken West elevator down to 1st floor after having moved it to 6th floor just after Baker/Truly began up the 5th floor staircase. So when B&T go to 5th floor landing, the West elevator appeared to be gone. It was actually on the 6th floor, and because Baker failed to stop to check the 6th lfoor, allowed shooter go down on the West elevator to the 1st floor. It was not Jack Dougherty, but the shooter, who used the west elevator.
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Please take a moment to explain what difference it makes whether Oswald used the irons versus the scope, in relation to leading the target. I can't wait to hear this one.
Way to colossally miss the point. Try reading my post again and in particular pay attention to the quote I helpfully included as part of my response.
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(http://likeobscurevainefforts.com/jfk6.jpg)
Why would a sniper wait until a target is eluding a perfect kill zone ...turning off and heading away into cover of signs and trees and then open fire?
You realize that the sniper's nest is only 2 feet from the window to the wall of boxes. Try to imagine yourself getting into position for a shot at a target on Houston from the half-closed window in that narrow a space.
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Please take a moment to explain what difference it makes whether Oswald used the irons versus the scope, in relation to leading the target. I can't wait to hear this one.
From my own experience, the iron sights would be easier to use in this case. Scopes narrow your field of view, which can be problematic trying to acquire/re-acquire a moving target.
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So it easier to fire from this same cramped space down Elm Street? What's your point?
You really haven't got a clue, to fire virtually straight down you have to have the rifle pointing virtually straight down whereas to shoot down Elm street, he could be lower and more in the shadows.
JohnM
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A non- issue it seems.
Exactly... And yet some choose to try to make an issue out of it.
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~snip~
Mr. Eisenberg: Was it reported to you by the person who ran the machine-run tests whether they had difficulties with sighting the weapon in?
Mr. Simmons: Well, they could not sight the weapon in using the telescope, and no attempt was made to sight it in using the iron sight. We did adjust the telescope sight by the addition of two shims, one which tended to adjust the azimuth, and one which adjusted an elevation.
~snip~
Mr. EISENBERG. How did he do with the iron sight on the third target?
Mr. SIMMONS. On the third target he missed the boards completely. And we have not checked this out. It appears that for the firing posture which Mr. Miller--Specialist Miller uses, the iron sight is not zeroed for him, since his impacts on the first and second targets were quite high, and against the third target we would assume that the projectile went over the top of the target, which extended only a few inches over the top of the silhouette.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?
Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.
~snip~
Mr. Eisenberg: Do you think a marksman who is less than a highly skilled marksman under those conditions would be able to shoot in the range of 1.2 mil aiming error?
Mr. Simmons: Obviously considerable experience would have to be in one's back background to do so. And with this weapon, I think also considerable experience with this weapon, because of the amount of effort required to work the bolt.
~snip~
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So it easier to fire from this same cramped space down Elm Street? What's your point?
My point is simple to understand, if you think about it. You just don't want to.
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So you can show via supporting evidence that a person who hasn't fired a weapon in years is better off using iron sights?
Sure! You want the study where they used frangible bullets made from compressed fairy dust, or the one where they tested new propellants synthesized from rainbow-flavored unicorn poop? What about the one where the rifle had a stock lovingly crafted from the wood of one of the goalposts you keep trying to move?
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From my own experience, the iron sights would be easier to use in this case. Scopes narrow your field of view, which can be problematic trying to acquire/re-acquire a moving target.
Agreed.
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Agreed.
If you really think about it, why did he have a misaligned scope on in the first place? The shooting distance was not far. Another researcher has an excellent analysis of scope use and how it makes it very difficult to follow a moving target using one, even harder to use aiming the down at an extreme downward angle.
My take? It was there as all part of the ruse to make it look like Crazy Oswald - supposedly expert shooter - used a [misaligned] scope to get the job done.
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If you really think about it, why did he have a misaligned scope on in the first place? The shooting distance was not far.
I believe I asked that unanswered question back on post #29....
..if you're going to smuggle in a rifle somewhere and not use the scope then why carry in a scope?
Wouldn't matter if it was a top of the line Bushnell...if it's not sighted in properly, then it's worthless.
The shooting distance was not far.
Triangulation assured accomplishment..of that there no doubt.
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Jesse Ventura, a former Navy SEAL and expert marksman tried to duplicate Oswald's alleged shooting feat for one of his television shows. He couldn't do it, despite the fact that he had many tries (Oswald had only one) and the targets were stationary.
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Jesse Ventura, a former Navy SEAL and expert marksman tried to duplicate Oswald's alleged shooting feat for one of his television shows. He couldn't do it, despite the fact that he had many tries (Oswald had only one) and the targets were stationary.
What about the possibility that ex-Governor Jesse Ventura was not trying as hard as he could to duplicate the shooting feat?
Keep in mind: Jesse Ventura was a professional wrestler. He earned his living in a profession that is based on lies. The lies are that the actions in the ring are spontaneous and not predetermined.
Jesse Ventura's attempt to duplicate the shooting sequence attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald was not authentic. He never intended to make the shots as fast as he was capable of doing.
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What about the possibility that ex-Governor Jesse Ventura was not trying as hard as he could to duplicate the shooting feat?
Keep in mind: Jesse Ventura was a professional wrestler. He earned his living in a profession that is based on lies. The lies are that the actions in the ring are spontaneous and not predetermined.
Jesse Ventura's attempt to duplicate the shooting sequence attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald was not authentic. He never intended to make the shots as fast as he was capable of doing.
JohnM
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on top of the horrible odds documented by the CBS the miserable Nutters are stuck with the scoped rifle although Oswald allegedly would have found that rifle dumped on the garage floor and, as a marksman, would have had no confidence that scope being zeroed at anything.
Consequently, since Oswald allegedly had to disassemble the rifle to make it fit the bag, he would have gotten rid of the scope while he had the screw driver out.
The WC narrative is pure fiction.
The CBS recreation proves it was entirely possible for Oswald to perform this feat with his rifle. It's difficult to understand even how anyone can interpret it otherwise. We don't even know the exact timeframe that Oswald had to fire his three shots. It could have been as long as ten seconds or more. About double that of the recreation. Making it even easier. The rest is just rambling, baseless speculation. You have no idea what condition Oswald's scope was in when it was fired. Why would he need to get rid of the scope to disassemble the rifle? How about being more concerned with why Oswald's rifle is found at the crime scene and why fired bullet casings from his rifle are found by the window and why he denies owning a rifle? The evidence is stone cold.
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You really haven't got a clue, to fire virtually straight down you have to have the rifle pointing virtually straight down whereas to shoot down Elm street, he could be lower and more in the shadows.
...and still be seen by Brennan from the belt up! :D
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Sure! You want the study where they used frangible bullets made from compressed fairy dust, or the one where they tested new propellants synthesized from rainbow-flavored unicorn poop? What about the one where the rifle had a stock lovingly crafted from the wood of one of the goalposts you keep trying to move?
Why do ODIA devotees always end up reverting to made up nonsense instead of actually addressing what is written?
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The CBS recreation proves it was entirely possible for Oswald to perform this feat with his rifle.
None of these demonstrations tell you anything about what Oswald could do.
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Why do ODIA devotees always end up reverting to made up nonsense instead of actually addressing what is written?
Hey John,
I've influenced you. I was the one who invented the "ODIA" acronym, "Oswald did it alone".
Glad you agree it's a more accurate statement than describing Oswald as a "Lone Nut".
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Hey John,
I've influenced you. I was the one who invented the "ODIA" acronym, "Oswald did it alone".
Glad you agree it's a more accurate statement than describing Oswald as a "Lone Nut".
(https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/emoji-one/104/thumbs-up-sign_1f44d.png)
I think it's more precise, because one could be a lone-nut advocate but not believe it was Oswald.
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So even you don't know what your point is. Got it.
Oh, I do. You just don't want to think about it. You'd rather try to put words in my mouth. It's one of those things that you do in lieu of discussion, evidence, and thought. But since you can't figure it out, it's a lot easier to maneuver and aim a 40" long rifle in a long narrow space when you're facing parallel to the long axis rather than perpendicular to it.
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Jerry, I suspect firing along the long line of axis offers higher probability of connecting v firing at a right angle. If your target is on Houston moving north then the TSBD would offer that but it eliminates Records bldg and Daltex. Once turn is made on Elm, all three locations offer what I mentioned. But I want you to think about something. If this is a conspiracy then it is to seat someone in power for the foreseeable future. The last thing this new regime would want is a crippled brain dead ex president being pushed around in a wheelchair with catheter and colostomy bag tied to his side by Robert and a grieving wife for years. This would mean in my opinion someone was on sight calling just what a Justice of the Peace would call, a coroner would call. Death or unsustainable injury. If this was a conspiracy then somewhere at the opposite end of that long line of axis would be your last resort. If that limo passes beneath that RR underpass with a live target suffering anything less than lethal wounds then your done. At that point all you could do is slip a trauma room 1 MD a million dollars to put a scapel to his aorta. Mr Dodd, Mr Price and that light colored plume you see dissecting the 4th oak near the end of the fence about 5' up from the ground in the Nix film corroborate each other. However in the 60's a lot of men smoked cigars and pipes so it may be just that. One thing is for sure, if you have to fire from anywhere west of the TSBD then its gonna cause 50 or 60 years of questioning a 6th floor window and lone nut gunman. They did and it has.
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Earl Golz articles review..........witnesses ignored-------
https://kiyq.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1353-9-22-1978.pdf
What sayeth ye conspiracy deniers?