JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Richard Rubio on July 21, 2018, 02:42:33 AM
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A long essay, some interesting points though. How about Jackie on the trunk? Did one film show her going further back? Or maybe that was a sort of optical illusion? As usual, no real conclusions are made but some pertinent points to think about. A few points, I had not previously seen.
JFK Assassination Film: Proof of Tampering?
Opinion
Milicent Cranor, a WhoWhatWhy senior editor with a background in forensic medical publishing, has studied the JFK assassination on and off for more than two decades. In this essay, Cranor asks readers to consider whether there is a significant discrepancy between the Nix and Zapruder films of the assassination, and if this indicates tampering. She also focuses on the Warren Commission testimony of Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who jumped onto the back of the President?s limousine. What he said seems to suggest he saw Kennedy being shot in the head ? for a second time ? immediately after the first time. This would contradict the Commission?s central finding that JFK was killed by a single shooter.
The other day I was trying to make sense of some strange discrepancies in what a Secret Service agent said about what he saw when President John F. Kennedy was shot.
I?m referring to Clint Hill, the man who jumped onto the trunk of the limousine to protect Jackie Kennedy who had gone out onto the trunk of the car.
Here?s what I can?t sort out: His stories do not agree with the films, and the films do not seem to agree with each other.
Read more at: https://whowhatwhy.org/2018/07/12/jfk-assassination-film-proof-of-tampering/
All in all, a long article and fairly open-ended as to what it means.
Something tells me really experienced researchers on the JFK assassination may find her findings to be those of a novice and amateurish. Still, maybe there's something in there to prick one's curiosity.
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It's an interesting observation. My first thought is that it's a perspective difference because of the angle from which Nix was filming.
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When viewing the Current Zapruder Film, CIA Image Expert Dino Brugioni cited the physical interaction between Jackie and SA Clint Hill as being in conflict with this same Zapruder Film segment he examined on 11/23/64. SA Hill was standing on the Extreme Left Bumper of the Limo and attempting to simultaneously: (1) reach across the Long and Wide trunk lid, (2) reach across the long and wide spare tire which extended outward from the trunk lid, and (3) hang onto/grip 1 of the 2 large handles atop the trunk lid. For Hill to come into physical contact with Jackie, she would have needed to be on the Extreme Rear portion of the trunk lid. Of course, this is Not what the Current Zapruder Film displays.
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Dino Brugioni:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_Brugioni
Off topic to the JFK assassination but being an image specialist for the CIA, it appears Dino did work in identifying the SAM (Strategic Air Missile?) sites in Cuba, so a role in what was the Cuban Missile Crisis and yes, being there with JFK:
Interview: https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//coldwar/interviews/episode-10/brugioni1.html
I'll have to look at all of this.
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Not read Dino's books, the reviews were enough but here's an example of his analysis skills.
Work this one out.
I see 3 or 4 people sitting on the ground, with their backs to us and perhaps beside a horseless cart.
Dino saw something else entirely and it's one of his proudest moments.
(https://i.imgur.com/nxV02na.jpg)
Who's right and why?
Need more of the image? No you dont but ask and I'll show it anyway, no prizes for guessing where it's from (No it's not DPD related).
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I was just mapping out the Nix and Z films line of sight for Jackie on the trunk. I found that if we place her on the trunk directly behind her seated position there seems to be a discrepancy. But the Z film shows her leaning left and her upper body is close to the center of the car/trunk. If you place her there it lines up with both Nix and Z positions. The angle of the Nix line of sight makes it look like she is back by the taillight if she is on the left side of the trunk. But if she is at the center line of the car the los puts her father back and it matches the Z film In the Z film we see her from a higher camera angle and it gives a more accurate position.
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How does one laid out, while planting an elbow onto the trunk lid, slide into the backseat within 6/18.3 (one third of a second)?
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/ZNix_1.gif)
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Jackie's return from the trunk lid to the backseat...
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/_/rsrc/1399637495232/lightbox/z350-z399/z386.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z350-z399/z394.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z407.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z416.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z427.jpg)
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I believe this discrepency is just a matter of perspective. I just did a short video on it.
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Jackie's return from the trunk lid to the backseat...
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/_/rsrc/1399637495232/lightbox/z350-z399/z386.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z350-z399/z394.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z407.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z416.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z400-z486/z427.jpg)
It would have been interesting to see how Jackie managed to retreat from the JFK Limo trunk lid and then re-enter the back seat/bench seat: (1) With her profusely bleeding husband Now stretched out across that same back/bench seat, (2) The JFK Limo simultaneously accelerating at such a rapid pace that ASAIC Kellerman's WC Testimony described it as, "...Jumped out of the G.D. street", and (3) Completely achieve this maneuver in mere seconds despite the horrific calamity unfolding all around her. The degree of difficulty in accomplishing All of this, Amidst All of this, in Mere Seconds, probably explains why All of Jackie's "activity" during this time frame is Absent from assassination images.
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I believe this discrepency is just a matter of perspective. I just did a short video on it.
Chris, these attached renderings may be a few frames from a perfect sync,but they seem consistent with the perspective differences as the root cause for the apparent discrepancies between Zapruder and Nix, as you already noted in your post..
201808151807 Z274 vs Nix Jackie on trunk half size.gif
(https://i.imgur.com/vM2G1ex.gif)
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James,
The frame count is the same, up until I stop the Zfilm, at which time the Nix film ends. Hmm!!!
The perspective does not explain the speed in which Jackie slides back into the rear seat from (z411-z417) or 6/18.3 = .327seconds.
Use a stopwatch and let .327seconds expire.
.327seconds is faster than you can say "click click" or the mimicking of starting and stopping the stopwatch.
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James,
The frame count is the same, up until I stop the Zfilm, at which time the Nix film ends. Hmm!!!
The perspective does not explain the speed in which Jackie slides back into the rear seat from (z411-z417) or 6/18.3 = .327seconds.
Use a stopwatch and let .327seconds expire.
.327seconds is faster than you can say "click click" or the mimicking of starting and stopping the stopwatch.
Sorry Chris D. I was replying to Chris Bristow's assessment of perspective differences for Jackie on the trunk. I have not looked at your observation, but I will later. :)
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I understand.
I'll make it easier on the eyes.
Jackie stabilized.
She turns away from Clint, her head facing towards the front of the limo, she plants her left hand/arm down, her movement stops ( stopwatch- click click) before she slides back into her seat in record time.
Try recreating this in a static vehicle with a stopwatch (click click).
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/J2.gif)
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I understand.
I'll make it easier on the eyes.
Jackie stabilized.
She turns away from Clint, her head facing towards the front of the limo, she plants her left hand/arm down, her movement stops ( stopwatch- click click) before she slides back into her seat in record time.
Try recreating this in a static vehicle with a stopwatch (click click).
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/J2.gif)
As mentioned on page 1 of this thread, Jackie is also working around the body of her husband who has fallen across the back seat of the Limo. Plus, if you have seen pics of the JFK Limo back/bench seat after the shooting, there is blood all over this specific area of the back seat. The amount of blood in that area was such that it spilled down off the seat onto the floor board. Jackie's skirt should have been extremely soaked/stained with blood as she came into direct contact with this section of the rear bench seat. Her skirt does Not display anything close to this degree of staining when she leaves AF1 and gets into the ambulance at Andrews Air Force Base.