JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Robin Unger on January 12, 2018, 08:21:42 PM

Title: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Robin Unger on January 12, 2018, 08:21:42 PM
Quote: Dale Myers

Dave Wiegman was an NBC cameraman riding in Camera Car 1, the tenth automobile in the motorcade. When the shooting began, Wiegman turned on his 16mm news camera, which ran at 24 frames-per-second.

Wiegmans first frame W001 is equivalent to  Zapruder 246

Wiegman frame W015 is equivalent to  Zapruder 257

Wiegman frame W035 is equivalent to  Zapruder 272



Title: Re: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Robin Unger on January 12, 2018, 08:37:41 PM
Gary Mack comments Re: Wiegman film (Education forum 2006)

Garry Mack replies to Marcel Dehaeseleer 2006 Education forum
regarding splices in the wiegman film, and the fact that the Groden version is not the complete Wiegman film.


Gary Mack:

The original, unedited Dave Wiegman film runs 36.5 seconds according to video tapes of the film's first broadcast at about 3pm local time that day.
If Groden's version is short, it's not his fault. That film has been shown many, many times since 1963 and I always see it edited differently. You have to known news film editors and news film editing techniques. The practice in those days was to edit film so blurry or confusing sequences aren't confusing to the audience.
Groden's version is missing a second or two at the very beginning of the film and some more is missing of the Newmans on the ground. There is one splice and maybe two, so more frames are probably missing at those places, too.
Groden owns at least two 16mm prints of the Wiegman film and the one he has on his video is the better image of the two.
As for the "problems" you found, none are significant:
1) The white line splice is, indeed, a splice. Whether the film was edited to remove blurry frames or was simply repaired from having been damaged, is unknown.
2) There is what appears to be another splice a little later. It is a black horizontal line near the bottom of the frame. (Black and white splice lines are quite normal, indicating editing on two different edit blocks that are not properly aligned.)
3) There are three segments to the Wiegman film, for once he filmed the Hesters, he stopped filming and walked toward the street. Then he started again and filmed the Newmans. Then he stopped again and, stepping onto the sidewalk, filmed the oncoming motorcade before panning to his left and catching Cheryl McKinnon dropping to the ground. Wiegman exposed 36.5 seconds of film in Dealey Plaza before jumping into his camera car and riding to Parkland.
4) Your "cross dissolve" is nothing more than ordinary blur artifacts from the film-to-tape transfer process. Different telecine machines create different artifacts, for they must match the 24 frames-per- second rate of 16mm film to the 29.97fps rate of US television. Converting US television to Europe's PAL standard or to France's SECAM standard induces additional anomalies.
5) In short, the blurs in the Wiegman film were present on the original broadcast of the unedited film. The composite "overlay" images you see are not present on the actual film. I have a 16mm 3rd or 4th generation print of the camera original Wiegman film and have examined it many times. The "overlay" is merely an artifact that appears only in some video versions of the film, not on the film itself.

Gary was wrong about one thing, the woman dropping to the ground was NOT Cheryl McKinnon ?

Her name was Doris Mumford


Title: Re: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Chris Davidson on January 13, 2018, 12:15:42 AM

Wiegman15 does not sync with Z257.

You can find the Wiegman15 car in the background at Z193.

You can plot that position using the Stemmons support post as a LOS from Z's pedestal.

Then plot the Wiegman15 car in the Elm St turn.

The distance traveled by the Wiegman15 car using extant Z193-z257 = 62.5ft.

64 Zframes = 64/18.3fps = 3.497 seconds.

62.5ft / 3.497 sec = 17.87ft per sec = 12.15mph.

Myers approx speed for the motorcade down Houston is 9.3mph.

It's even slower entering the Elm St turn which is exactly where the Wiegman15 car is located.

Try 7.1 and 7.9 mph into the turn.

Average those three (7.1,7.9 and 9.3) and you get 8.1mph

As I said before, there is approx 1.8 seconds Myer's uses to speed up the scenario, which is the Towner bogus frame rate of 22.8fps instead of 18.3.

That difference of 1.8seconds when added back to the 3.5 sec (64 frames) = 5.3 seconds

Now do the math for the Wiegman15 car.

62.5ft / 5.3 seconds = 11.79ft per sec = 8.02mph

This is how sync's that don't work, are made to appear they do.

Title: Re: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Chris Davidson on January 13, 2018, 04:42:31 AM
An easier way to picture it, is using CE884 and a nearby frame span of z186-z255.

69 frames @ 65.6ft = 11.78 mph.

The limo would have to be moving slower than the motorcade on Houston St including the initial turn onto Elm St.

I don't think so.


Title: Re: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Chris Davidson on January 13, 2018, 07:06:03 PM

This is Myer's graphic.

Wiegman15 car is in the 7.1mph zone.

6.8 + 7.1 +(9.3 -Houston St) = 7.73mph average


Title: Re: Wiegman / Zapruder Frame Timeline
Post by: Chris Davidson on January 21, 2018, 06:38:29 PM
The same thought process can be applied to the Martin film also.

Do you think it's quite peculiar that two different 8mm cameras would have to run at 22.8/18 (27%) faster than they normally would in order to have proper syncing for the assassination? Not!!!

Just as the Towner camera was 8mm and shot at 18.3fps on assassination day(not 22.8), so too was the Martin film.

The accommodation would look like this:

Martin total frames =72.

72/22.8 =3.157 seconds
72/18.3 =3.934 seconds
Difference = .777 sec
Time gap listed between Towner end and Z 133 = .82sec
Difference = .043 sec = less than 1 frame

I won't belabor the point much more, the elemental importance has been provided.