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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 07:21:10 PM

Title: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
So as the story goes...

My grandmother who suffers from Alzheimer's recently mentioned to my father to get the ?Kennedy photos out of the attic? out of the blue.  It was unknown to any family members that she had taken photo(s) that day but we all knew that she was there on Nov 22, 1963.  It was something that was never discussed in my family, in fact, I?ve never heard her mention it.  My father remembers her coming home that day and never saying another word about it, she was apparently incredibly traumatized and no one knows what she saw.  Apparently she was never interviewed or anything and has never told anyone her story (that I am aware of).

One of the photos is incredibly blurry and can not be made out but my father (who is not very familiar with the assassination) said that it looked like she was in the area when he was shot by looking at the other picture. I was just wondering what the best resource to try to identify my grandmother in would be?  Are there any 40ish year old ladies that have a camera that have not been identified?  Possibly in the area when JFK was shot?

I?m currently not in the state (I go to college out of state) but will be home next weekend and can?t wait to see the photos first hand.  I would appreciate any help you guys can give me as you seem like a pretty educated group on the subject. 

EDIT:  I changed the subject so it?s not misleading.  We know she was there... but beyond that, we shall see.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 13, 2018, 07:45:30 PM
Sounds a bit like the elusive Babushka Lady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady).

(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z250-z299/z288.jpg)

The Zapruder film showed her standing behind a man and his son, and she's apparently pointing a camera.

(http://www.historicmysteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Babuska1-e1484333128322-1024x759.jpg)

(http://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/babushka-lady-standing.jpg)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 07:55:40 PM
Thanks so much for your response.  Are there any photos showing her face?  The build and scarf around her head (my grandmother was always scared of her hair getting messed up and frequently wore scarfs and plastic rain bonnets.  We always laughed at her for it) looks kind of like her but I can?t be for certain.  My grandmother would have been 43.  Would love some more information. 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Dan DAlimonte on July 13, 2018, 08:08:16 PM
So as the story goes...

My grandmother who suffers from Alzheimer's recently mentioned to my father to get the ?Kennedy photos out of the attic? out of the blue.  It was unknown to any family members that she had taken photo(s) that day but we all knew that she was there on Nov 22, 1963.  It was something that was never discussed in my family, in fact, I?ve never heard her mention it.  My father remembers her coming home that day and never saying another word about it, she was apparently incredibly traumatized and no one knows what she saw.  Apparently she was never interviewed or anything and has never told anyone her story (that I am aware of).

One of the photos is incredibly blurry and can not be made out but my father (who is not very familiar with the assassination) said that it looked like she was in the area when he was shot by looking at the other picture.  I was just wondering what the best resource to try to identify my grandmother in would be?  Are there any 40ish year old ladies that have a camera that have not been identified?  Possibly in the area when JFK was shot?

I?m currently not in the state (I go to college out of state) but will be home next weekend and can?t wait to see the photos first hand.  I would appreciate any help you guys can give me as you seem like a pretty educated group on the subject.

Hey, Kendall ? welcome to the Forum and thx for the compliment for us being a pretty educated group on the subject.
We are ?  some more so than others.  If at all possible can you place whatever photos you do have blurry or not here.

That way we can at least figure out where your grandmother was standing when the pics were taken.  Can you also put up
pics of your grandmother when she was around the age that you mentioned.  That way we might be able to find her
in whatever pics and films we do have..
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 08:28:38 PM
Hi Dan, I live out of state for college and won?t be home until next weekend.  I?m not sure how I feel about posting a photo of her yet, I dont want to cause any stress.  As I mentioned she has never been comfortable discussing and is currently suffering from Alzheimer?s.  I?m still trying to figure out how to best handle the situation and I?m honestly still a little blown away...
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 13, 2018, 08:42:01 PM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/3689ca559fffeb7c150e48965583a0e9/tumblr_inline_ojd172beBD1t8vcwe_500.png)

(https://strangeincidents.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/southnearmorman.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/00/41/b400414760f57ac4dcee09e188031d33.jpg)

The Babushka Lady only shows up as indistinct or back-on. The scarf is said to show birds. I guess she could be 43.

Identifying the Babushka Lady would be solving the sole-remaining legitimate mystery of the JFK assassination.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 08:45:07 PM
The dark hair and her figure excites me (and makes me nervous at the same time).  I?m going to see if I can get my dad to send me a copy of the photos on his cell. 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 09:36:06 PM
So I?ve just learned they are apparently color slides and not photos.  Does that help narrow it down any?
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 13, 2018, 09:44:42 PM
So I?ve just learned they are apparently color slides and not photos.  Does that help narrow it down any?
We would need to view them to pinpoint the location where the photographs were taken from.

Being slides makes no difference, it is the visible content that is the important factor.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 09:46:38 PM
Great.  Thanks so much for your help Duncan.  I will update once I?ve seen them.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Bruce Backlund on July 13, 2018, 10:16:46 PM
If they are 35mm color slides, you have to scan them in a device capable of doing transparencies. Most reputable computer and/or photo specialist businesses can do it if you, if do not possess the equipment. In some ways, color transparencies can have better resolution than prints that have been sitting around from that era.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 13, 2018, 10:25:09 PM
Thanks Bruce.  ::fingers crossed::  I?m patiently (not so much, I?ve already called 3 times) waiting for my dad to send me a picture of them.  It?s crazy that she?s never mentioned it before but like I said, she tends to have random memories now.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Bruce Backlund on July 13, 2018, 11:48:45 PM
Kendall,
On the off-chance your grandmother indeed took colored slides on the afternoon of Nov. 22, 1963 about the time of the assassination in Dealey Plaza, and they have never been seen by the public, they could be very valuable monetarily and intellectually. There are experts on this forum who can offer assistance in time and location of said slides. Good luck on your project, and keep this forum updated!
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas
Post by: Mike Orr on July 14, 2018, 12:28:44 AM
Kendall , if you would type in  --- Images of the Babushka Lady --  you will see about 10 pictures of the lady in question and there among those photos of this lady,  there are frontal pictures of her that are very clear but also a little smaller. Maybe these pictures can be enlarged .   Good Luck Kendall
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 14, 2018, 03:43:16 AM
Thanks for your help!  I?ll post with any updates.  Have a wonderful night everyone.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Bruce Backlund on July 14, 2018, 03:52:17 AM
Good move. If it amounts to anything then develop provenance, aka the chronology of the ownership, custody or location of the historic slide/s and your family's ownership. Probably, the percentage of people here are only interested in whether any photo shows anyone on the 6th floor of the School Depository bldg. or behind the stockade fence. If it does, BE CAREFUL! But, you can at least tell us if your grandmother was the "Babushka Lady." Still, a 55-year-old mystery. If your grandmother is still of sound mind, record from her what happened that day if she is able. Might make a good book in the future.  ;)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 14, 2018, 07:03:40 AM
Kendall , if you would type in  --- Images of the Babushka Lady --  you will see about 10 pictures of the lady in question and there among those photos of this lady,  there are frontal pictures of her that are very clear but also a little smaller. Maybe these pictures can be enlarged .   Good Luck Kendall

Kendall,

There are NO known full frontal, very clear photographs of the Babushka lady. I don't know why Mike would post such a thing.

The Zapruder Film does show her full frontal, but the frames are a blurry mess and are absolutely useless for identification purposes.


Mike,

Please provide a clickable link to just ONE of these alleged very clear full frontal photos.

I hope the images below is not one of the images to which you refer, it is NOT the Babushka lady, repeat, it is NOT the Babushka lady.

The colorized image below does NOT show the Babushka lady. The myth that it does show her is widespread, and was created a few years ago by some lunatic everything is a conspiracy headcase on the internet who hasn't a clue about anything to do with the assassination.

(https://www.ayojon.mx/galeria/2018/01/39711_m.jpg)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 14, 2018, 09:57:39 AM
Kendall,

A member posted asking you for information regarding some of your family names. I have deleted that post.

Further posts from anyone else who posts asking for such information at this moment in time will be deleted.

A Tip From Me.

Do Not give the names of any of your Family members to anyone on this Forum, or elsewhere at this moment in time, as to do so could lead to a lifetime of being pestered by all sorts of JFK assassination nuts.

Do Not give any information at all to members via the Forum's PM system.

You may PM me at any time for advice.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Alan Ford on July 14, 2018, 10:37:38 AM
Kendall,

A member posted asking you for information regarding some of your family names. I have deleted that post.

Further posts from anyone else who posts asking for such information at this moment in time will be deleted.

A Tip From Me.

Do Not give the names of any of your Family members to anyone on this Forum, or elsewhere at this moment in time, as to do so could lead to a lifetime of being pestered by all sorts of JFK assassination nuts.

Do Not give any information at all to members via the Forum's PM system.

You may PM me at any time for advice.

Kendall,

Thank you so much for reaching out! Duncan's advice above is excellent. No need to give out personal details or share personal photos of your grandmother here----if you can restrict yourself to sharing the color slides with us, then the images will do the talking for themselves!
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Mike Orr on July 14, 2018, 03:54:23 PM
That's my mistake Duncan . I thought these pictures were of the Babushka Lady from the front but at some distance as to not be able to tell exactly who she was.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Kendall Klena on July 14, 2018, 06:28:46 PM
Duncan, thank you for that. 

Thanks for all your help and I?ll be in touch soon.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Duncan MacRae on August 06, 2018, 03:49:52 PM
Wasn't Beverly Oliver the "Babuschka Lady? Is this not correct?
She's an imposter, believed only by gullibles,

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oliver.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oliver.htm)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Denis Morissette on August 06, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
The best video on the Babushka Lady.

Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Robert Reeves on August 06, 2018, 04:52:18 PM
Babushka Lady appears to have brown/dark hair ... Beverly Oliver had her dyed blonde hair in 63?

Anyway after hearing Beverly Oliver talk about the assassination I never got the impression she was there. She doesn't sound like someone that witnessed a traumatic event. She doesn't come across genuine. And if so, why does she continually milk these assassination events for promoting her absolute spombleprofglidnoctobunse singing? Where's the respect for JFK. I have often thought she sounds drunk at these events, also.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Akis Papas on August 06, 2018, 09:36:12 PM
there is one profile picture of BL among the crowd after the assasination but it is not very clear.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Akis Papas on August 06, 2018, 09:51:57 PM
it is the woman in the center and in the left
(https://frugallivingingreece.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/bl1.jpg)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 07, 2018, 12:21:37 AM
the "Babuschka Lady
I wonder who first thought up that name anyway?
BTW- babushka [бабочка] literally means butterfly...a nickname for grandma. 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Patrick Jackson on August 07, 2018, 01:01:25 AM
I wonder who first thought up that name anyway?
BTW- babushka [бабочка] literally means butterfly...a nickname for grandma.
Babushka is grandmother in Russian and Dealey plaza Babuska lady got this name because of her scarf on her head.
(https://s26.postimg.cc/7k4nmpseh/babushka-318x400.jpg)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 07, 2018, 01:16:06 AM
Babushka is grandmother in Russian and Dealey plaza Babuska lady got this name because of her scarf on her head.
 
Thanks Patrick but I believe I did state in my post that I know babushka means grandma.
However, [if you re-read my post] what I was wondering is WHO had first thought up that name?
 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Duncan MacRae on August 07, 2018, 08:52:34 AM
If MacAdams is your only source then I have to wonder who the gullibles are.
Count yourself in, Rob.  :)

(https://rlv.zcache.co.uk/gullible_t_shirt-r1a6da5d478624565a2cc46a504b73b6f_k2glg_307.jpg?rvtype=content)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Patrick Jackson on August 07, 2018, 09:48:25 AM
Thanks Patrick but I believe I did state in my post that I know babushka means grandma.
However, [if you re-read my post] what I was wondering is WHO had first thought up that name?
You did write that you know but butterflies has nothing to do with this. Бабочка is butterfly and babushka is бабушка. Babushka lady was most probably first time used by some of the researchers or reporters.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Walt Cakebread on August 07, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
You did write that you know but butterflies has nothing to do with this. Бабочка is butterfly and babushka is бабушка. Babushka lady was most probably first time used by some of the researchers or reporters.

The original early plot called for blaming the assassination on the Communists and Russians....  They wanted to make it appear that he mystery woman was a Russian.....Thus they dubbed her Babushka....  In Texas a more appropriate  moniker would have been "Bandanna Lady" if it had been a spontaneous and un-contrived label.

You may recall that the early reports said that Lee Harvey Oswald was the leader of a band of communists under the banner of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee .....
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Royell Storing on August 07, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
   Even though she was Not wearing a scarf or raincoat, let's Not forget to also consider the Unknown Woman that was standing next to Mumford near the N. Curb light pole. That woman does appear to fit the 40 something age description. Maybe this lady had a camera of some kind? Also, is it possible she did Not go to Dealey Plaza alone?  Many families back in "63" did Not own 2 cars = car pooling. Getting to-and-from Dealey Plaza mid day would make car pooling likely.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Jerry Freeman on August 07, 2018, 04:02:22 PM
  They wanted to make it appear that the mystery woman was a Russian
Why?
This mystery woman... wasn't a shooter.
I guess I was asking this...Who are 'they'?
Why the search for this one scarf lady?
After looking through some pictures...There were several women wearing scarfs down there that day.
 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Walt Cakebread on August 07, 2018, 04:34:13 PM
Why?
This mystery woman... wasn't a shooter.
I guess I was asking this...Who are 'they'?
Why the search for this one scarf lady?
After looking through some pictures...There were several women wearing scarfs down there that day.

Why?
This mystery woman... wasn't a shooter.

No??   Was she holding an "instrument" and aiming it at JFK??  Are you sure it was a camera?

The point is:....  They could have easily have presented her as a "mysterious Babushka Lady" who was in cahoots with the Communist villain Lee Harrrrrrvey Ossssswald.....Boooo Hissss.   They had not been able to identify "her" ( she could have been a man) so they didn't know if that device she was aiming was in fact a camera.....
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Denis Pointing on August 07, 2018, 07:39:04 PM
Why?
This mystery woman... wasn't a shooter.

No??   Was she holding an "instrument" and aiming it at JFK??  Are you sure it was a camera?

The point is:....  They could have easily have presented her as a "mysterious Babushka Lady" who was in cahoots with the Communist villain Lee Harrrrrrvey Ossssswald.....Boooo Hissss.   They had not been able to identify "her" ( she could have been a man) so they didn't know if that device she was aiming was in fact a camera.....

No ones ever suggested that except you and you don't count because you're (https://findicons.com/files/icons/814/very_emotional/128/crazy.png)
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Royell Storing on August 07, 2018, 07:50:28 PM
No ones ever suggested that except you and you don't count because you're (https://findicons.com/files/icons/814/very_emotional/128/crazy.png)]

Blevins over on You Tube has a presentation where he claims Babushka was giving shooters in the shelter behind Zapruder a green light to open fire. His claim is Babushka used a camera flash/light to signal these alleged shooters.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Walt Cakebread on August 07, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
No ones ever suggested that except you and you don't count because you're (https://findicons.com/files/icons/814/very_emotional/128/crazy.png)

The reason nobody has pointed out that any number of devices could be a firearm in disguise,is because they are afraid of some fool ridiculing the idea. The Secret Service was well aware that cameras, binoculars, canes, or umbrellas could actually be a firearm....

It is a well know FACT that the CIA ( and other intelligence organizations ) have used firearms disguised as innocent everyday objects since at least the days of Hitler.....
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Duncan MacRae on August 07, 2018, 09:28:54 PM
Wrong Duncan. I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that Beverly Oliver is definitely the "Babushka Lady." What I am saying is John McAdams' word alone isn't enough to show that this is incorrect for me. It may be for other people.

Next to the word "gullible" in the dictionary is a picture of a WC defender.

The information is compiled by Mcadams, and comes from many searchable sources.

The gathered and published research in his compilation is not based on his research.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Walt Cakebread on August 08, 2018, 03:14:05 PM
I'll go with ...she is not very credible.
We're a dollar short and 55 yrs too late.
Cheers

Yes....Justice delayed is justice denied...     However,  We can still know the truth...and realize and know that powerful and evil men got away with murder and at last attempt to set the history books straight.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Doug Easterly on August 18, 2018, 05:09:07 PM
and....nada!! I mean WTH I took we were going to solve the mystery of Ms Babushka!!  We did it with Doris Mumford on the eve of the 50th about 5 years ago this time! Remember for years Doris Mumford was incorrectly ID as Cynthia McKinney who wrote an eyewitness account of the assassination, stating she was on the infamous grassy knoll that day for a not well known and now long defunct paper in Chula Vista, CA on the 20th anniversary way back in Nov. 1983. I submit that published story was either a fabrication on her part OR the little known paper did sloppy journalism by inserting a stock photo of the woman who was revealed to be Doris Mumford next to the story without explanation that  this picture is NOT of our reporter but a stock photo. Anyways, isnt it odd that this supposed daughter finds the forum, engages it, and then disappears. Im sure the mother, if she has Alzheimers, is not searching the internet so impact to her psyche shouldnt be of issue!! 
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Royell Storing on August 18, 2018, 05:23:46 PM
and....nada!! I mean WTH I took we were going to solve the mystery of Ms Babushka!!  We did it with Doris Mumford on the eve of the 50th about 5 years ago this time! Remember for years Doris Mumford was incorrectly ID as Cynthia McKinnon who wrote an eyewitness account of the assassination, stating she was on the infamous grassy knoll that day for a not well known and now long defunct paper in Chula Vista, CA on the 20th anniversary way back in Nov. 1983. I submit it that published story was either a fabrication on her part OR the little known paper did sloppy journalism by inserting a stock photo of the woman who was revealed to be Doris Mumford next to the story without explanation that  this picture is NOT of our reporter but a stock photo. Anyways, isnt it odd that this daughter finds the forum, engages and then disappears. Im sure the mother, if she has Alzheimers, is not searching the internet so impact to her psyche shouldnt be of issue.

     Could be the guy is shopping around whatever photo(s) he might have. Give this time to play out one way or the other. Also, if this is true, jumping to the conclusion that his Grandma was Babushka = knee-jerk. He simply said she often wore a scarf. He did Not say the picture(s) in question included his Grandma wearing a scarf on 11/22/63. Remember, the ID of the woman standing at the light pole alongside Mumford allegedly Remains Unknown to this day.
Title: Re: My grandmother was in Dallas...
Post by: Doug Easterly on August 18, 2018, 05:36:47 PM
     Could be the guy is shopping around whatever photo(s) he might have. Give this time to play out one way or the other. Also, if this is true, jumping to the conclusion that his Grandma was Babushka = knee-jerk. He simply said she often wore a scarf. He did Not say the picture(s) in question included his Grandma wearing a scarf on 11/22/63. Remember, the ID of the woman standing at the light pole alongside Mumford allegedly Remains Unknown to this day.


Royell, maybe youre right. My bad as I assumed Kendall was a female? Yeah, you would assume as people get into twilight of their lives, they would want to reveal certain "secrets" so maybe that lightpole woman and the black Tshirt dude on the fire escape of the Dal-Tex building will eventually be identified, but I'm thinking if not for the 50th, already 5 years ago, then when?