JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Dan O'meara on August 15, 2026, 11:54:31 PM
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(https://i.postimg.cc/mDkwLpFY/Darnellearliestframe.png)
The image above is the opening frame of Jimmy Darnell's footage of the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.
I would like to determine, to the second if possible, how long after the headshot this footage started.
One thing that should be visible in this footage is Dave Weigman getting out of the car in front and sprinting towards the concrete pergola on the GK.
The only thing that catches my eye at the moment is a detail off in the distance.
In the crop below, in the red circle are Umbrella Man and Dark Complected Man sat down.
In the yellow circle is the Newman's lying flat on the grass. The reason this is important is that there are no photographers stood around them. This is something that seemed to happen really quickly and it might be possible to use this detail for a timeline:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvVbj421/Darnellearliestframecircled.png)
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[...]
Dear danny BOY o'meara,
Gloria Calvery and her dressed-in-white colleague are already standing in a lower step, one of their other colleagues has already taken the long way to the TSBD by running through the pergola and down Elm Street Extension, and Officer Baker has already parked his bike, glanced around, listened to his radio, and run to the front steps by the time Darnell's so-called "opening frame" was shot.
-- Tom
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Thanks for examining the current timestamp applied to Officer Baker running across the Island on the Darnell Film.
With your already looking at the Newman Family laying down on the grass, also keep the Couch Film in mind. The Couch Film shows Wiegman running down the knoll between the Newman Family and the Stemmons Sign. I believe we are probably seeing Wiegman near the Stemmons Sign leg post that is closest to the Elm St sidewalk. I also think that we can see a dark figure above (N) of this possible Wiegman image. That dark figure on the ground would be Mumford.
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
Gloria Calvery and her dressed-in-white colleague are already standing in a lower step, one of their other colleagues has already taken the long way to the TSBD by running through the pergola and down Elm Street Extension, and Officer Baker has already parked his bike, glanced around, listened to his radio, and run to the front steps by the time Darnell's so-called "opening frame" was shot.
-- Tom
None of that tells us how many seconds have passed before the opening frame of Darnell.
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None of that tells us how many seconds have passed before the opening frame of Darnell.
Read my lips, danny BOY o'meara.
What you've posted, above, isn't the "opening frame" of Darnell.
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Read my lips, danny BOY o'meara.
What you've posted, above, isn't the "opening frame" of Darnell.
Please tell this Forum where we can see a Darnell Frame that was filmed prior to the one posted below. NBC/The Sixth Floor Museum would also probably be very interested.
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
Gloria Calvery and her dressed-in-white colleague are already standing in a lower step, one of their other colleagues has already taken the long way to the TSBD by running through the pergola and down Elm Street Extension, and Officer Baker has already parked his bike, glanced around, listened to his radio, and run to the front steps by the time Darnell's so-called "opening frame" was shot.
-- Tom
It is AFTER the opening frame below that shows the driver of Camera Car #2 standing outside of the car, that we THEN see Officer Baker running across the Island toward the TSBD. Yet, here you are claiming that Officer Baker has already, "run to the front steps" at the time of this opening frame. Or, are you claiming that the DPD Cop we see running across the Island is Not Officer Baker?
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From Malcolm Couch WC testimony, he reached for his camera just seconds after he and Bob Jackson saw a rifle in the TSBD. He made a quick setting on the camera and raised the camera up to his eye.
If he started filming immediately, it would vertically be as fast at Dillard who reached for his camera and took a photo of TSBD in approx 10 seconds once post shots.
What is odd is why after Couch had just spotted a rifle being withdraw from the 6th floor TSBD window the he did not start his camera pointed at that window. ???
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From Malcolm Couch WC testimony, he reached for his camera just seconds after he and Bob Jackson saw a rifle in the TSBD. He made a quick setting on the camera and raised the camera up to his eye.
If he started filming immediately, it would vertically be as fast at Dillard who reached for his camera and took a photo of TSBD in approx 10 seconds once post shots.
What is odd is why after Couch had just spotted a rifle being withdraw from the 6th floor TSBD window the he did not start his camera pointed at that window. ???
I'm assuming Couch's camera car was moving. That might have complicated his getting footage of the 6th floor window after he picked up the camera and adjusted the setting.
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It is after the opening frame, below, that shows the driver of Camera Car #2 standing outside of the car, that we then see Officer Baker running across the Island toward the TSBD. Yet, here you are claiming that Officer Baker has already, "run to the front steps" at the time of this opening frame.
I stand corrected.
Congratulations.
Or are you claiming that the DPD cop we see running across the Island is not Officer Baker?
LOL!
https://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2014/11/jfk-assassination-films.html
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I stand corrected.
Congratulations.
LOL!
https://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2014/11/jfk-assassination-films.html
How about You keep your shorts on and let O'meara research this timeline issue? O'meara is very thorough and You just might learn even more than your admission above. What he is taking on is Not an easy task. He's sorting through 62+ years of BS:
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(https://i.postimg.cc/mDkwLpFY/Darnellearliestframe.png)
The purpose of this thread is to establish how long after the headshot the above image was taken.
This seems like a simple proposition but, after having looked into it, it's trickier than I'd first assumed.
I am going to use other available assassination films to form an interlocking matrix of 'common points'. I imagine Mark Tyler used a similar method when making his Motorcade Mapping program.
Each film is taken from YouTube which has a 'timing bar' at the bottom of the frame that I will be using to get approximate timings from.
I am going to start by tying the Martin Bell film to the Zapruder film.
Then tie the Bell film to the Weigman film.
If I can find enough 'common points' the films should start to corroborate each other.
Below is s still from the Bell film.
It shows the moment the Presidential limo enters the underpass and is covered completely by shadow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zB2kDFXS/Bellunderpass.png)
Note that the timing bar shows 45 seconds.
Next is the Zapruder frame that corresponds to the Bell frame above. This too shows the moment the limo is engulfed by shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/gJwnbVxC/z471cropped.png)
This is z-frame 471.
We can now work out how long after the headshot the limo was covered by shadow:
471 - 313 = 158
158 divided by 18.3 = 8.633
So, we can now say that the Bell frame showing the limo completely covered by shadow (timing bar 45 seconds) was taken 8.6 seconds after the headshot.
This is our first common point.
The next common point is also from the Bell film and connects it to the Weigman film.
In his film, Weigman gets out of his car and races towards the concrete pergola, he throws himself down on three steps and films the Hesters lying on the floor. Charles Hester gets up and heroically abandons his wife, who is lying on the floor with her bag and coat. She raises herself up and the film suddenly cuts to the Newmans who are still lying on the floor.
The still below is from Bell and it shows the moment Mrs Hester (circled yellow) has raised herself up and Weigman (circled red) is about to stop filming and get up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hs5bM9vs/Bell-Weigman.png)
Note - the timing bar shows 55 seconds.
We can now state the following - the moment Weigman stops filming the Hesters is 10 seconds after the limo passes into shadow in the Bell film (55 - 45 seconds)
The moment the limo passes into shadow is 8.6 seconds after the headshot.
Therefore, the moment Weigman stops filming the Hesters is 18.6 seconds (let's call it 19 seconds) after the headshot.
How does this relate to the Darnell frame in the OP?
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Calvery got to the steps in probably 17 to 20 seconds...
The general agreement is that Couch/Darnell is 25 to 30 seconds after the shots...
Kamp says it is 15 to 20...
The time period shown in Couch/Darnell is right after Stanton turned to Frazier to tell him what Calvery shouted...It is the precise time that Frazier said he and Stanton were "standing and staring at each other in shock for the longest time"...
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From the Bell film we have this image:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hs5bM9vs/Bell-Weigman.png)
It is the moment Mrs Hester has raised up and Weigman is about to stop filming, get up and move over to the Newmans.
It is the equivalent of this frame from the Weigman film:
(https://i.postimg.cc/CK8JJnNh/Weigman-Hester.png)
Note, the timing bar shows 23 seconds.
We will now go back in time in the Weigman film. One or two seconds after he steps out of his vehicle, Weigman points his camera towards the underpass and takes this shot:
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVn3W1CG/Weigmanunderepass.png)
Note the timing bar shows 10 seconds.
Therefore this image is taken 13 seconds before the image of Mrs Hester after she has raised up. (23 - 10 = 13 seconds)
It was established in my last post that Weigman's image of Mrs Hester was taken approximately 19 seconds after the headshot.
We can now say this - the image Weigman took towards the underpass, just after he stepped out of his vehicle, was around 6 seconds after the headshot.
Weigman's image of Mrs Hester was taken 19 seconds after the headshot.
His image towards the underpass was taken 13 seconds before this.
19 - 13 = 6 seconds after the headshot.
I will use a superior version of Weigman's underpass image from Robin Unger's gallery to show the relevance of this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXqFbVTd/Weigmanunderpassqualitycircledlimo.jpg)
The Weigman film I am using is poor quality but is important because it shows the timing bar. What it doesn't show is the detail of the above image, in particular the vehicle circled red in the image. The vehicle is thought by many to be the Presidential limo just before it enters the underpass and I can demonstrate that this is indeed the case.
As has been established, the image above was taken around 6 seconds after the headshot.
The headshot occurred at z313.
6 seconds x 18.3 = 110 zframes.
313 + 110 = zframe 423
Below is zframe 423:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kv2896Dx/z423.png)
It shows the limo about 2 seconds before it enters the underpass, demonstrating that the vehicle shown in the Weigman image is indeed the Presidential limo before it enters the underpass.
How does this relate to the Darnell image in the OP?
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Apologies for any issues.
Will make sure it's done like this from now on.
DAN - Thanks for the lengthy in-depth work you are putting in on this project. I look forward to delving into the nuts-n-bolts when said project is completed.
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at least they’re posting images to try and support their views on the matter, Albert.
all you have are words stuffed into huge paragraphs ! change your stylist maybe?
Form over substance...
No credible researcher doubts the pair going up the extension are Lovelady & Shelley...I see any elevated attempt to deny it as intentional trouble-making for the purpose of disrupting good research...Obfuscation through false rigor...
I'm surprised such a skilled researcher like Armstrong would risk his credibility by making denial of the pair as being Lovelady & Shelley a hill to die on like he does...
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Form over substance...
No credible researcher doubts the pair going up the extension are Lovelady & Shelley...I see any elevated attempt to deny it as intentional trouble-making for the purpose of disrupting good research...Obfuscation through false rigor...
I'm surprised such a skilled researcher like Armstrong would risk his credibility by making denial of the pair as being Lovelady & Shelley a hill to die on like he does...
There are several issues tying into the Darnell Film timeline. You instead concentrate on 1 single thing. Too bad.
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Form over substance...
No credible researcher doubts the pair going up the extension are Lovelady & Shelley...I see any elevated attempt to deny it as intentional trouble-making for the purpose of disrupting good research...Obfuscation through false rigor...
I'm surprised such a skilled researcher like Armstrong would risk his credibility by making denial of the pair as being Lovelady & Shelley a hill to die on like he does...
No one is interested in what you think.
You have demonstrated yourself to be a complete nobody, incapable of supporting any of the bogus claims you make.
Why do you even bother posting?
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Anyone who doubts the pair are Lovelady & Shelley is just in self-deceiving denial...
The single piece of 'evidence' identifying the men as Shelley and Lovelady is the doctored image Bart Kamp "sharpened".
It is this single piece of highly questionable 'evidence' you have based your identification on.
Unfortunately, you lack the courage to admit this, which is in keeping with the way you have conducted yourself on this forum.
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The single piece of 'evidence' identifying the men as Shelley and Lovelady is the doctored image Bart Kamp "sharpened".
It is this single piece of highly questionable 'evidence' you have based your identification on.
Unfortunately, you lack the courage to admit this, which is in keeping with the way you have conducted yourself on this forum.
I believe the Darnell still frame showing that figure standing in almost the identical position we see Lovelady standing in on Algens 6, is far more convincing than the Kamp Mickey Mouse'd image. And they never attempt to ID the other fellow walking down the Elm St Extension. Why is that? Because they can't pin a Shelley ID on him.
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If we could get the original Couch/Darnell celluloids they would repeat Kamp's enhancement exactly and show that people who doubt the pair is Lovelady & Shelley are just time-wasting evidence vandals...
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If we could get the original Couch/Darnell celluloids they would repeat Kamp's enhancement exactly and show that people who doubt the pair is Lovelady & Shelley are just time-wasting evidence vandals...
Cue "The Twilight Zone" theme music.
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Disappointingly, I can't figure out the timestamp as convincingly as I would have hoped.
I was sure there was enough overlapping assassination footage to piece a timeline together but that appears not to be the case.
The frame in Bell showing the limo entering the shadow of the underpass can be timed at approximately 9 seconds after the headshot.
10 seconds later we have this frame from Bell:
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbmBvC4z/Bell-Weigman2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Weigman has finished filming the Hesters and is in the process of standing up.
Frustratingly, the Bell film cuts here and resumes showing that Weigman has suddenly arrived near the Newmans:
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXV2YNMD/Bell-Weigman3.png) (https://postimages.org/)
At the moment I can't bridge this cut.
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;D
I posted my last REPLY expressing my disappointment at not being able to find the moment when Weigman makes his way from filming the Hesters to filming the Newmans, had a quick look at Malcom Couch's footage and instantly saw exactly what I was looking for.
The cropped still below is from Couch.
The focus is on the figure in the red circle.
This figure runs from point A to point B along the blue line.
It is Wegman running between the Hesters and the Newmans.
It takes him about 3 seconds to cover this distance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76fNBG5L/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
He can be seen in the footage below starting around the 4 second mark:
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;D
I posted my last REPLY expressing my disappointment at not being able to find the moment when Weigman makes his way from filming the Hesters to filming the Newmans, had a quick look at Malcom Couch's footage and instantly saw exactly what I was looking for.
The cropped still below is from Couch.
The focus is on the figure in the red circle.
This figure runs from point A to point B along the blue line.
It is Wegman running between the Hesters and the Newmans.
It takes him about 3 seconds to cover this distance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76fNBG5L/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
He can be seen in the footage below starting around the 4 second mark:
Where is Zapruder? The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder. He gets very close to Zapruder. Wiegman then hangs a (L) and runs down the knoll between the Stemmons Sign and the Newman Family. We should be able to see a trace of the lower body of Zapruder up atop the steps. We do Not. Why? Zapruder has moved during a "Time Gap" here. "Missing Time"! Maybe, Wiegman for whatever reason, Stopped up there before hanging a (L) and running down the knoll. Remember that in "Pictures Of The Pain" (1994), Wiegman said that he saw SA Lem Johns UP-The-Knoll. Maybe this time gap/lost time is when Wiegman saw SA Lem Johns up-the-knoll? Maybe Wiegman filmed SA Lem Johns during this "time gap"? SA Johns claimed that he Never left Elm St after he jumped out of the LBJ SS Car. The FBI has always claimed that no agents were assigned a ground position inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.
The Yellow Circled Officer Hargis is also a problem. He gave WC Testimony that he ran to that little wall that runs down from Zapruder. Hargis thought a shooter had fired from atop the Triple Underpass. He wanted to get a good look at the top of the Triple Underpass while covered by the short wall. But Hargis being behind the short wall is not on any image.
The Wiegman Film was claimed to have been shot "continuously" for 30+ years following the assassination. "Pictures Of The Pain" comes out 31 yrs after the assassination with Wiegman claiming to have seen SA Lem Johns "Up-The Knoll", and all the sudden the Wiegman Film is now claimed to NOT be filmed continuously. There is a connection.
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Where is Zapruder? The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder. He gets very close to Zapruder. Wiegman then hangs a (L) and runs down the knoll between the Stemmons Sign and the Newman Family. We should be able to see a trace of the lower body of Zapruder up atop the steps. We do Not. Why? Zapruder has moved during a "Time Gap" here. "Missing Time"! Maybe, Wiegman for whatever reason, Stopped up there before hanging a (L) and running down the knoll. Remember that in "Pictures Of The Pain" (1994), Wiegman said that he saw SA Lem Johns UP-The-Knoll. Maybe this time gap/lost time is when Wiegman saw SA Lem Johns up-the-knoll? Maybe Wiegman filmed SA Lem Johns during this "time gap"? SA Johns claimed that he Never left Elm St after he jumped out of the LBJ SS Car. The FBI has always claimed that no agents were assigned a ground position inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.
The Yellow Circled Officer Hargis is also a problem. He gave WC Testimony that he ran to that little wall that runs down from Zapruder. Hargis thought a shooter had fired from atop the Triple Underpass. He wanted to get a good look at the top of the Triple Underpass while covered by the short wall. But Hargis being behind the short wall is not on any image.
The Wiegman Film was claimed to have been shot "continuously" for 30+ years following the assassination. "Pictures Of The Pain" comes out 31 yrs after the assassination with Wiegman claiming to have seen SA Lem Johns "Up-The Knoll", and all the sudden the Wiegman Film is now claimed to NOT be filmed continuously. There is a connection.
The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder.
The Bell film shows Weigman (circled in red) lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mrs Hester circled in yellow) and is in the process of getting up.
Weigman doesn't move from this spot. He doesn't approach Zapruder at all. Note - in the bottom left of this image we can see Hargis stood by a lamp post.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hs5bM9vs/Bell-Weigman.png)
There is then a cut in the film and Weigman is suddenly down by the Newmans. Note - in this image we can see Hargis is now running across Elm Street towards his car.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXV2YNMD/Bell-Weigman3.png)
In the Couch film we see the moment Weigman runs down the knoll from his spot on the steps filming the Hesters to his spot near the Newmans where he starts to film them. We should be able to see Zapruder and Sitzman in the Couch footage but the Stemmons sign is in the way.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76fNBG5L/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg)
In the image above Weigman is about half way along his run. Hargis is still at the lamp post and is about to start his run across Elm Street.
"The Wiegman Film was claimed to have been shot "continuously" for 30+ years following the assassination."
From my own viewing it seems that the opening shot of the Weigman film is a single shot up until the point he has finished filming the Hesters. The film then clearly cuts to the Newmans. There can be zero doubt there is a cut at this point so I'm not sure how there could be a claim that it was continuous.
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The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder.
The Bell film shows Weigman (circled in red) lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mrs Hester circled in yellow) and is in the process of getting up.
Weigman doesn't move from this spot. He doesn't approach Zapruder at all. Note - in the bottom left of this image we can see Hargis stood by a lamp post.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hs5bM9vs/Bell-Weigman.png)
There is then a cut in the film and Weigman is suddenly down by the Newmans. Note - in this image we can see Hargis is now running across Elm Street towards his car.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXV2YNMD/Bell-Weigman3.png) (https://postimages.org/)
In the Couch film we see the moment Weigman runs down the knoll from his spot on the steps filming the Hesters to his spot near the Newmans where he starts to film them. We should be able to see Zapruder and Sitzman in the Couch footage but the Stemmons sign is in the way.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76fNBG5L/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
In the image above Weigman is about half way along his run. Hargis is still at the lamp post and is about to start his run across Elm Street.
"The Wiegman Film was claimed to have been shot "continuously" for 30+ years following the assassination."
From my own viewing it seems that the opening shot of the Weigman film is a single shot up until the point he has finished filming the Hesters. The film then clearly cuts to the Newmans. There can be zero doubt there is a cut at this point so I'm not sure how there could be a claim that it was continuous.
- YOU TUBE -
"Raw Footage #1: The F.M. Bell film out-of-camera original" by - The JFK Theorist (1:19)
The Bell Film still frame you have posted above is CROPPED. Zapruder is visible on the (L), on an Uncropped Bell Film. Sitzman is also visible between the sprocket holes.
I recommend you use the Bell Film I have listed above to help with your time stamping. "The JFK Theorist" posts extremely good copies of JFK assassination films on You Tube. He sometimes posts on this forum as "Alex Harris".
Altgens gave WC Testimony that he initially followed law enforcement UP the knoll. When we see Altgens above, he has come back down the knoll and is now walking laterally L-R. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
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- YOU TUBE -
"Raw Footage #1: The F.M. Bell film out-of-camera original" by - The JFK Theorist (1:19)
The Bell Film still frame you have posted above is CROPPED. Zapruder is visible on the (L), on an Uncropped Bell Film. Sitzman is also visible between the sprocket holes.
I recommend you use the Bell Film I have listed above to help with your time stamping. "The JFK Theorist" posts extremely good copies of JFK assassination films on You Tube. He sometimes posts on this forum as "Alex Harris".
Altgens gave WC Testimony that he initially followed law enforcement UP the knoll. When we see Altgens above, he has come back down the knoll and is now walking laterally L-R. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
Firstly, this version of Bell is FAR superior to the one I was using and will be far more helpful, so thanks for that.
I'd like to go slowly to piece together my thinking here. The first thing I'd like to clear up is your comment in an earlier post that in the Bell film Weigman can be seen walking towards Zapruder. As far as I can tell this is not correct but I might be misunderstanding something so I'd like to clear it up. It's not a 'gotcha' or anything, just a genuine attempt to work this timeline out.
In the Bell film we see the limo enter the underpass followed by 3 cars. The camera then quickly pans to the right and shows us the GK area, where we see Zapruder and Sitzman making their way from the plinth and, as it pans across, Weigman in a prone position from where he was filming the Hesters:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLcKkbBb/Bellnamed-Weigman1.png)
This is the moment just before there is a cut/jump in the film.
We can see Weigman lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mr Hester can be just about made out in the shadows of the pergola, Mrs Hester is getting up from her prone position). Weigman turns around and starts to get up. In the bottom left corner we can see Hargis stood by the lamp post.
The film then cuts/jumps to the scene below. There is no way to tell how much time has passed but a few things have changed - Altgens has appeared out of nowhere, Weigman is now filming the Newmans and Hargis is now running across the road:
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTjcsrfg/Bellnamed-Weigman2.png)
Do you agree that the Bell film does NOT show Wegman walking towards Zapruder?
Do you agree there is no way to tell, just by watching the Bell film, how much time has passed between these two images because of the cut/jump?
Do you agree that Weigman has moved from his position filming the Hesters to his position filming the Newmans?
Again, no 'gotchas', just honest questions.
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Firstly, this version of Bell is FAR superior to the one I was using and will be far more helpful, so thanks for that.
I'd like to go slowly to piece together my thinking here. The first thing I'd like to clear up is your comment in an earlier post that in the Bell film Weigman can be seen walking towards Zapruder. As far as I can tell this is not correct but I might be misunderstanding something so I'd like to clear it up. It's not a 'gotcha' or anything, just a genuine attempt to work this timeline out.
In the Bell film we see the limo enter the underpass followed by 3 cars. The camera then quickly pans to the right and shows us the GK area, where we see Zapruder and Sitzman making their way from the plinth and, as it pans across, Weigman in a prone position from where he was filming the Hesters:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLcKkbBb/Bellnamed-Weigman1.png)
This is the moment just before there is a cut/jump in the film.
We can see Weigman lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mr Hester can be just about made out in the shadows of the pergola, Mrs Hester is getting up from her prone position). Weigman turns around and starts to get up. In the bottom left corner we can see Hargis stood by the lamp post.
The film then cuts/jumps to the scene below. There is no way to tell how much time has passed but a few things have changed - Altgens has appeared out of nowhere, Weigman is now filming the Newmans and Hargis is now running across the road:
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTjcsrfg/Bellnamed-Weigman2.png)
Do you agree that the Bell film does NOT show Wegman walking towards Zapruder?
Do you agree there is no way to tell, just by watching the Bell film, how much time has passed between these two images because of the cut/jump?
Do you agree that Weigman has moved from his position filming the Hesters to his position filming the Newmans?
Again, no 'gotchas', just honest questions.
YOU TUBE
"Did The Umbrella Man Signal The Shot That Killed JFK?" By - WW2 Mememto (17:19)
From 10:38 - 11:31 = a panning sequence showing the Uncropped Bothun Photo. On the (L) it shows Motorcycle Officer Hargis riding away on his motorcycle. On the (R) it shows Motorcycle Officer Haygood just entering the photo. In between these 2 bookends, it shows the Newman family on the ground, Altgens walking DOWN the knoll toward Elm St, Wiegman filming Officer Haygood as he rides down Elm St, The Cuban and Umbrella Man sitting on the retaining wall, the Chism family beginning their sprint across the knoll, etc. This crystal clear image will assist you in your time stamping. Our Forum "photo gallery" also includes this Bothun Photo, but it is nowhere near as clear as this photo is displayed on YOU TUBE. And remember, the earlier a time stamp you apply to the Wiegman footage, the earlier you are also placing this Man walking down the sidewalk that runs from the Shelter to Elm St on the (E) side/TSBD side of the RL Thornton sign.
The image of Wiegman running toward Zapruder is on the Bell Film BEFORE the still frame you posted.
For the record, I do not believe that Wiegman was laying on the ground when he filmed the Hester's. Why would he lay down when filming? Do you know of any other time he laid down when filming that day? I also do Not believe that Wiegman ever climbed atop those steps. I believe Wiegman was Standing on the grass just in front of those steps when he filmed the Hester's. After filming the Hester's, Wiegman started moving (W) on the grass in the direction of Zapruder above and in front of him. What we are seeing on the Bell Film is Wiegman is FALLING. The Bell Film shows the Wiegman figure to be in the position of falling toward the ground. Who gets UP from the ground like we see Wiegman on the Bell Film? Nobody does. There are only 2 explanations for Wiegman's body position on the Bell Film still frame you posted. Either Wiegman is: (1) FALLING to the ground, (maybe he tripped?), or, (2) he is willfully DIVING to the ground. Wiegman did say he felt the "compression" of a bullet on his face during his segment on, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" (2003).
With respect to the Wiegman Film being deemed "filmed continuously" for 30 yrs, we really have no idea what was being viewed on the Wiegman Film during that time period. Dating back, on this Forum, there was a letter posted from Gary Mack directly addressing this "filmed continuously" issue. And remember, NBC has steadfastly REFUSED to release their Original Wiegman Film. Same goes for NBC and their Original Darnell Film.
Your Questions
(1) The Bell Film DOES SHOW Wiegman moving (W) toward Zapruder. Your posted Bell Film still frame is too late to show this.
(2) As to estimating the time passage between the 2 images due to the "cut/jump", this is why I mentioned Wiegman being in the process of falling to the ground on the Bell Still Frame you posted. How long was Wiegman on the ground, before he got up and then ran down the Knoll to film the Newman Family? This is yet another variable that is Unknown.
(3) Yes, I agree that Wiegman did move from filming the Hester's to filming the Newman's.
That Uncropped Bothun Photo shows Officer Hargis riding away as we see Wiegman filming Officer Haygood entering the Bothun photo on the (R). Hargis gave WC Testimony that he left his motorcycle, crossed Elm St, went up to that "little wall", eyeballed the top of the Triple Underpass where he thought a shot came from, moved to the light pole, eyeballed the TSBD, and then returned to his motorcycle on the other side of Elm St. How long do you believe it took Officer Hargis to do ALL of this? And, I thought we were seeing Officer Hargis still near his motorcycle on the early frames of the Wiegman Film that show the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass?
Thanks again for tackling this timeline issue.
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YOU TUBE
"Did The Umbrella Man Signal The Shot That Killed JFK?" By - WW2 Mememto (17:19)
From 10:38 - 11:31 = a panning sequence showing the Uncropped Bothun Photo. On the (L) it shows Motorcycle Officer Hargis riding away on his motorcycle. On the (R) it shows Motorcycle Officer Haygood just entering the photo. In between these 2 bookends, it shows the Newman family on the ground, Altgens walking DOWN the knoll toward Elm St, Wiegman filming Officer Haygood as he rides down Elm St, The Cuban and Umbrella Man sitting on the retaining wall, the Chism family beginning their sprint across the knoll, etc. This crystal clear image will assist you in your time stamping. Our Forum "photo gallery" also includes this Bothun Photo, but it is nowhere near as clear as this photo is displayed on YOU TUBE. And remember, the earlier a time stamp you apply to the Wiegman footage, the earlier you are also placing this Man walking down the sidewalk that runs from the Shelter to Elm St on the (E) side/TSBD side of the RL Thornton sign.
The image of Wiegman running toward Zapruder is on the Bell Film BEFORE the still frame you posted.
For the record, I do not believe that Wiegman was laying on the ground when he filmed the Hester's. Why would he lay down when filming? Do you know of any other time he laid down when filming that day? I also do Not believe that Wiegman ever climbed atop those steps. I believe Wiegman was Standing on the grass just in front of those steps when he filmed the Hester's. After filming the Hester's, Wiegman started moving (W) on the grass in the direction of Zapruder above and in front of him. What we are seeing on the Bell Film is Wiegman is FALLING. The Bell Film shows the Wiegman figure to be in the position of falling toward the ground. Who gets UP from the ground like we see Wiegman on the Bell Film? Nobody does. There are only 2 explanations for Wiegman's body position on the Bell Film still frame you posted. Either Wiegman is: (1) FALLING to the ground, (maybe he tripped?), or, (2) he is willfully DIVING to the ground. Wiegman did say he felt the "compression" of a bullet on his face during his segment on, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" (2003).
With respect to the Wiegman Film being deemed "filmed continuously" for 30 yrs, we really have no idea what was being viewed on the Wiegman Film during that time period. Dating back, on this Forum, there was a letter posted from Gary Mack directly addressing this "filmed continuously" issue. And remember, NBC has steadfastly REFUSED to release their Original Wiegman Film. Same goes for NBC and their Original Darnell Film.
Your Questions
(1) The Bell Film DOES SHOW Wiegman moving (W) toward Zapruder. Your posted Bell Film still frame is too late to show this.
(2) As to estimating the time passage between the 2 images due to the "cut/jump", this is why I mentioned Wiegman being in the process of falling to the ground on the Bell Still Frame you posted. How long was Wiegman on the ground, before he got up and then ran down the Knoll to film the Newman Family? This is yet another variable that is Unknown.
(3) Yes, I agree that Wiegman did move from filming the Hester's to filming the Newman's.
That Uncropped Bothun Photo shows Officer Hargis riding away as we see Wiegman filming Officer Haygood entering the Bothun photo on the (R). Hargis gave WC Testimony that he left his motorcycle, crossed Elm St, went up to that "little wall", eyeballed the top of the Triple Underpass where he thought a shot came from, moved to the light pole, eyeballed the TSBD, and then returned to his motorcycle on the other side of Elm St. How long do you believe it took Officer Hargis to do ALL of this? And, I thought we were seeing Officer Hargis still near his motorcycle on the early frames of the Wiegman Film that show the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass?
Thanks again for tackling this timeline issue.
The guy I've labelled Weigman in the Bell frames I posted is 100% Dave Weigman just after he has finished filming the Hesters. Below is a frame from Weigman's footage.The first thing to notice is how low down this shot is taken from. He is virtually on the same level as the grass. At the bottom of the frame is the concrete of the steps he is laying on.
Further proof it is Weigman is the angle of the shot in respect to the concrete pergola. The pergola structure has six columns at the front. At the time of the shooting the outward faces of two of the columns were in darkness and four of them in sunlight. In the Weigman frame below, the outward face of column A is in darkness and column B in light. Mrs Hesters head is in direct alignment with column A.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hkdjQYB/hestersinweigman-NUMBERED.jpg)
In the frame from Bell below I have labelled the same columns A and B. When we draw a line from Weigman to column A it passes through Mrs Hesters head. It is exactly the correct alignment.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qvynvbkC/Bell-Weigman-Hester-Line.png)
I have proven that the figure in Bell is Weigman.
I have proven it with photographic evidence that cannot be disputed.
Can you post the timestamp from the Bell film you pointed me towards (JFK Theorist version) so I can see who you believe Weigman is because there is no-one running towards Zapruder in the Bell film and I can't figure out what you mean.
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The guy I've labelled Weigman in the Bell frames I posted is 100% Dave Weigman just after he has finished filming the Hesters. Below is a frame from Weigman's footage.The first thing to notice is how low down this shot is taken from. He is virtually on the same level as the grass. At the bottom of the frame is the concrete of the steps he is laying on.
Further proof it is Weigman is the angle of the shot in respect to the concrete pergola. The pergola structure has six columns at the front. At the time of the shooting the outward faces of two of the columns were in darkness and four of them in sunlight. In the Weigman frame below, the outward face of column A is in darkness and column B in light. Mrs Hesters head is in direct alignment with column A.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hkdjQYB/hestersinweigman-NUMBERED.jpg)
In the frame from Bell below I have labelled the same columns A and B. When we draw a line from Weigman to column A it passes through Mrs Hesters head. It is exactly the correct alignment.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qvynvbkC/Bell-Weigman-Hester-Line.png)
I have proven that the figure in Bell is Weigman.
I have proven it with photographic evidence that cannot be disputed.
Can you post the timestamp from the Bell film you pointed me towards (JFK Theorist version) so I can see who you believe Weigman is because there is no-one running towards Zapruder in the Bell film and I can't figure out what you mean.
For future Wiegman ID'ing purposes, the Telltale article that sets Wiegman apart from ALL the other Photog's is his HAT. Of the photog's that jumped out of their camera cars and ran to the Knoll, Wiegman is the only one wearing a hat.
I agree that the figure we are discussing is Wiegman. In the Bell still frame that you posted, I see Wiegman positioned on the knoll grass. (He is Not physically on any of the Steps in the Bell still frame that you posted). Wiegman is facing/moving (W) toward the short wall that runs down from the Zapruder Perch. Why he was moving (W) across the Knoll, I do Not know. I believe this Bell still frame shows Wiegman to be stumbling/falling, maybe diving to the ground. The angle of Wiegman's body/arm(s) tells me this. Nobody gets up from the ground with their body in the position we see on this Bell still frame. Wiegman is Falling to the ground. I believe that Wiegman filmed the Hester's while Standing on the Knoll Grass. He was Not laying down across any of the steps between him and the Hesters. He was Not laying down on the grass. Wiegman was filming the Hesters while in a standing position on the Knoll grass. This placed him Lower than the Hesters.
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For future Wiegman ID'ing purposes, the Telltale article that sets Wiegman apart from ALL the other Photog's is his HAT. Of the photog's that jumped out of their camera cars and ran to the Knoll, Wiegman is the only one wearing a hat.
I agree that the figure we are discussing is Wiegman. In the Bell still frame that you posted, I see Wiegman positioned on the knoll grass. (He is Not physically on any of the Steps in the Bell still frame that you posted). Wiegman is facing/moving (W) toward the short wall that runs down from the Zapruder Perch. Why he was moving (W) across the Knoll, I do Not know. I believe this Bell still frame shows Wiegman to be stumbling/falling, maybe diving to the ground. The angle of Wiegman's body/arm(s) tells me this. Nobody gets up from the ground with their body in the position we see on this Bell still frame. Wiegman is Falling to the ground. I believe that Wiegman filmed the Hester's while Standing on the Knoll Grass. He was Not laying down across any of the steps between him and the Hesters. He was Not laying down on the grass. Wiegman was filming the Hesters while in a standing position on the Knoll grass. This placed him Lower than the Hesters.
Just so I've got this right in my mind - you've abandoned your claim that the Bell film shows Weigman running towards Zapruder. You now agree with my identification of Weigman in the Bell film. You don't believe the Bell film shows the position from which Weigman filmed the Hesters.
Am I correct so far?
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Just so I've got this right in my mind - you've abandoned your claim that the Bell film shows Weigman running towards Zapruder. You now agree with my identification of Weigman in the Bell film. You don't believe the Bell film shows the position from which Weigman filmed the Hesters.
Am I correct so far?
(1) I believe that Wiegman is generally running (W) towards Zapruder. You do see Zapruder and Wiegman both in the same Bell frames?
(2) I have always known that this is Wiegman on the Bell Film. His Hat is a dead giveaway.
(3) I believe that Wiegman's position while filming the Hester's was just to the (E) of where we see him falling to the ground on the Bell still frame you posted. I believe while standing, Wiegman filmed the Hesters, then turned to his (L), and then started to move (W) across the Knoll. Wiegman immediately stumbled and fell or maybe dove to the ground.
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(1) I believe that Wiegman is generally running (W) towards Zapruder. You do see Zapruder and Wiegman both in the same Bell frames?
(2) I have always known that this is Wiegman on the Bell Film. His Hat is a dead giveaway.
(3) I believe that Wiegman's position while filming the Hester's was just to the (E) of where we see him falling to the ground on the Bell still frame you posted. I believe while standing, Wiegman filmed the Hesters, then turned to his (L), and then started to move (W) across the Knoll. Wiegman immediately stumbled and fell or maybe dove to the ground.
This is soooo painful...
Previously you posted this - The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder.
Do you stand by this claim, that in the Bell film we can see Weigman running across the stairs toward Zapruder? Or is this something that you've made up?
Is it something you are imagining but isn't shown in the Bell film.
I'll make this easy - At any point in the Bell film do we see Weigman running?
Do you know what...just forget it...the Bell film does not show Weigman running towards Zapruder, it never did. You just made it up. Weigman stays in exactly the same spot until the film cuts and he is down by the Newmans. Why you would claim the Bell film shows him running is a complete mystery to me. I literally have no idea why you would make such a claim. But now you are trying to backtrack on it...kind of...maybe.
Your story about Weigman standing up while he filmed the Hesters and then fell over is just a fantasy you have invented. There is not a single scrap of evidence to support this made up scenario. I have no idea why you have invented this scenario. I just don't get it. I honestly don't understand why you can't just accept the obvious - the Weigman footage of the Hesters shows us it was filmed at floor level, the Bell footage shows us Weigman filming the Hesters at floor level.
Why isn't the obvious interpretation of the evidence acceptable?
Why invent pointless details?
The steps are only a few inches high...if Weigman was stood up filming the footage would be from a stood up position. But it clearly isn't......................
.....it doesn't matter.
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This is soooo painful...
Previously you posted this - The Bell Film shows Wiegman running across the stairs/directly toward Zapruder.
Do you stand by this claim, that in the Bell film we can see Weigman running across the stairs toward Zapruder? Or is this something that you've made up?
Is it something you are imagining but isn't shown in the Bell film.
I'll make this easy - At any point in the Bell film do we see Weigman running?
Do you know what...just forget it...the Bell film does not show Weigman running towards Zapruder, it never did. You just made it up. Weigman stays in exactly the same spot until the film cuts and he is down by the Newmans. Why you would claim the Bell film shows him running is a complete mystery to me. I literally have no idea why you would make such a claim. But now you are trying to backtrack on it...kind of...maybe.
Your story about Weigman standing up while he filmed the Hesters and then fell over is just a fantasy you have invented. There is not a single scrap of evidence to support this made up scenario. I have no idea why you have invented this scenario. I just don't get it. I honestly don't understand why you can't just accept the obvious - the Weigman footage of the Hesters shows us it was filmed at floor level, the Bell footage shows us Weigman filming the Hesters at floor level.
Why isn't the obvious interpretation of the evidence acceptable?
Why invent pointless details?
The steps are only a few inches high...if Weigman was stood up filming the footage would be from a stood up position. But it clearly isn't......................
.....it doesn't matter.
............. Since the above does Not matter to you ..................
Are you using the YOU TUBE "Uncropped" Bothun Photo to help with your time stamping? I find the position of Altgens coming down the knoll toward Elm St and Wiegman having finished filming the Newman Family and now being physically down on the sidewalk filming Officer Haygood, to be important factors with respect to determining the Tick/Tock. Same goes for the Chism Family now being in position to begin their run across the Knoll. Trask "Pictures Of The Pain" gives this Bothun Photo a roughly "30 Seconds" after the kill shot time stamp.
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Here's the actual first frame from the Darnell film, taken from my lossless Youtube download and not a lazy Youtube screenshot
(https://i.ibb.co/mV96F6m9/mpv-shot0011.png) (https://ibb.co/8Lr646Jr)
and NO the Bell Film does NOT SHOW WIEGMAN RUNNING, it shows a walking camera man at the bottom but not him running.
This is taken from a high quality 1080p version without the watermark.
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
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Here's the actual first frame from the Darnell film, taken from my lossless Youtube download and not a lazy Youtube screenshot
(https://i.ibb.co/mV96F6m9/mpv-shot0011.png) (https://ibb.co/8Lr646Jr)
and NO the Bell Film does NOT SHOW WIEGMAN RUNNING, it shows a walking camera man at the bottom but not him running.
This is taken from a high quality 1080p version without the watermark.
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
Thanks for posting the above Bell Film still frame.
If you look at the frames leading up to this still frame and the frames following it, you will see that the upper body of Wiegman is getting closer to the ground at the end of these frames. Why? Because Wiegman is falling to the ground. If you think of Wiegman as being a Football Running Back, he mirrors a ball carrier falling Forward to the ground. Instead of firmly holding a Football to his chest, Wiegman is instead holding his camera to his chest.
Wiegman filmed the Newman Family at the bottom of the Knoll. The Newman Family were on the ground (W) of the Street Light Post. (To the (L) of the Street Light Post). In order for Wiegman to be standing next to the Newman Family and film them, he had to of moved (W) from where we see him on the above Bell still frame. This is what Wiegman was beginning to do when he stumbled and fell to the ground. He had to of gotten UP, and then continued moving (W) across the Knoll, in order to then go Down the knoll and end up standing next to the Newman Family. The Couch Film shows Wiegman moving almost STRAIGHT DOWN the Knoll. Wiegman had to of moved (W) from where we see him on this Bell still frame in order to arrive at the bottom of the Knoll and then be standing next to the Newman Family.
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I think the reason some people have such a difficult time figuring out something as simple as the JFKA is because they obsess over irrelevancies such as this. They look for significance in the most insignificant things.
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I think the reason some people have such a difficult time figuring out something as simple as the JFKA is because they obsess over irrelevancies such as this. They look for significance in the most insignificant things.
The importance of the Wiegman movements is his movements consume time. O'meara is working on a timeline concerning the Darnell Film. Couch and Darnell were both riding inside Camera Car #3. That opening frame of the Darnell Film shows the 3 camera cars being at a dead STOP. The driver of Camera Car #2 is filmed standing outside of the car. This would be in reaction to an extended STOP. Then we see Officer Baker running across the Island and toward the TSBD. This extended stopping of the camera cars impacts the accepted Officer Baker Tick/Tock.
The same goes for Couch filming Wiegman running down the knoll. Wiegman falling down at the top of the Knoll, before he ran (W) across and then down the knoll, is yet another Tick/Tock issue
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............. Since the above does Not matter to you ..................
Are you using the YOU TUBE "Uncropped" Bothun Photo to help with your time stamping? I find the position of Altgens coming down the knoll toward Elm St and Wiegman having finished filming the Newman Family and now being physically down on the sidewalk filming Officer Haygood, to be important factors with respect to determining the Tick/Tock. Same goes for the Chism Family now being in position to begin their run across the Knoll. Trask "Pictures Of The Pain" gives this Bothun Photo a roughly "30 Seconds" after the kill shot time stamp.
The Bothun photo is of no use.
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The Bothun photo is of no use.
OK. The timestamp for the Bothun Photo is :30 seconds after the kill shot. Yet, we see Motorcycle Officer Hargis beginning to ride away. Considering everything that Hargis did, that :30 seems very quick for him to be riding away.
Also, that photo shows almost all of the Hargis motorcycle windshield. A detailed look at that windshield should reveal a lot of blood/brain matter on it. Hargis stopped his motorcycle quickly after the kill shot. Whatever was on that windshield should have remained "as is" on the Bothun Photo.
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Excellent work by this guy.
Note, as Weigman approaches the Hesters his camera momentarily points downwards showing that he is directly on top of the concrete platform and steps as I have been saying all along.
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Firstly, this version of Bell is FAR superior to the one I was using and will be far more helpful, so thanks for that.
I'd like to go slowly to piece together my thinking here. The first thing I'd like to clear up is your comment in an earlier post that in the Bell film Weigman can be seen walking towards Zapruder. As far as I can tell this is not correct but I might be misunderstanding something so I'd like to clear it up. It's not a 'gotcha' or anything, just a genuine attempt to work this timeline out.
In the Bell film we see the limo enter the underpass followed by 3 cars. The camera then quickly pans to the right and shows us the GK area, where we see Zapruder and Sitzman making their way from the plinth and, as it pans across, Weigman in a prone position from where he was filming the Hesters:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLcKkbBb/Bellnamed-Weigman1.png)
This is the moment just before there is a cut/jump in the film.
We can see Weigman lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mr Hester can be just about made out in the shadows of the pergola, Mrs Hester is getting up from her prone position). Weigman turns around and starts to get up. In the bottom left corner we can see Hargis stood by the lamp post.
The film then cuts/jumps to the scene below. There is no way to tell how much time has passed but a few things have changed - Altgens has appeared out of nowhere, Weigman is now filming the Newmans and Hargis is now running across the road:
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTjcsrfg/Bellnamed-Weigman2.png)
Do you agree that the Bell film does NOT show Wegman walking towards Zapruder?
Do you agree there is no way to tell, just by watching the Bell film, how much time has passed between these two images because of the cut/jump?
Do you agree that Weigman has moved from his position filming the Hesters to his position filming the Newmans?
Again, no 'gotchas', just honest questions.
[/quote
ALTGENS 8 VS THE WIEGMAN FILM
On "Altgens 8", we are told that we are seeing the backs of Zapruder and Sitzman having just gotten down from the pedestal. They are standing on the cement just to the (E) of this same pedestal. In the background, we see BOTH of the Hesters flat on the ground, close to the Pergola. Per Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain", "Altgens 8" was taken from the (S) side of Elm St. It was taken Immediately after Altgens took the photo of the rear of the JFK Limo as it raced toward the Triple Underpass. (Time Stamp)
On a good copy of the "Wiegman Film", there are 2-3 clear frames showing this very Same Pedestal and the cement just to the (E) of this Pedestal. There is also a frame clearly showing the inside of the Shelter behind this same pedestal. These frames were taken BEFORE Wiegman filmed Both Hesters laying on the ground, and Mr Hester then getting up and moving to the Pergola behind them. These 2-3 Wiegman Film frames showing the pedestal and the cement to the (E) of the pedestal, do Not show Zapruder. They also do Not show Sitzman. And the Wiegman Film frame clearly showing the inside of the Pergola Shelter behind the pedestal, shows the Shelter to be empty.
How is it that these 2-3 Wiegman Film still frames of the pedestal area do Not show any trace of Zapruder and Sitzman? Along with the shelter behind the pedestal being filmed empty? Zapruder and Sitzman are Not inside the shelter. This completely changes the currently accepted time lines of these images and the people captured within them. Wiegman got out of Camera Car #1 LATER than we were led to believe, and he then filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass LATER than we were led to believe. The same goes for the Darnell Film footage of Officer Baker running toward the TSBD. That currently accepted :20 second time line is Wrong. ALL of these images were incorrectly time lined in order to corroborate each other. The now much clearer JFK Assassination Images, also being readily examined/viewed online, is exposing this chicanery.
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ALTGENS 8 VS THE WIEGMAN FILM
On "Altgens 8", we are told that we are seeing the backs of Zapruder and Sitzman having just gotten down from the pedestal. They are standing on the cement just to the (E) of this same pedestal. In the background, we see BOTH of the Hesters flat on the ground, close to the Pergola. Per Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain", "Altgens 8" was taken from the (S) side of Elm St. It was taken Immediately after Altgens took the photo of the rear of the JFK Limo as it raced toward the Triple Underpass. (Time Stamp)
On a good copy of the "Wiegman Film", there are 2-3 clear frames showing this very Same Pedestal and the cement just to the (E) of this Pedestal. There is also a frame clearly showing the inside of the Shelter behind this same pedestal. These frames were taken BEFORE Wiegman filmed Both Hesters laying on the ground, and Mr Hester then getting up and moving to the Pergola behind them. These 2-3 Wiegman Film frames showing the pedestal and the cement to the (E) of the pedestal, do Not show Zapruder. They also do Not show Sitzman. And the Wiegman Film frame clearly showing the inside of the Pergola Shelter behind the pedestal, shows the Shelter to be empty.
How is it that these 2-3 Wiegman Film still frames of the pedestal area do Not show any trace of Zapruder and Sitzman? Along with the shelter behind the pedestal being filmed empty? Zapruder and Sitzman are Not inside the shelter. This completely changes the currently accepted time lines of these images and the people captured within them. Wiegman got out of Camera Car #1 LATER than we were led to believe, and he then filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass LATER than we were led to believe. The same goes for the Darnell Film footage of Officer Baker running toward the TSBD. That currently accepted :20 second time line is Wrong. ALL of these images were incorrectly time lined in order to corroborate each other. The now much clearer JFK Assassination Images, also being readily examined/viewed online, is exposing this chicanery.
Altgens 8 captures the moment Zapruder and Sitzman have just got off the pedestal and are walking away from it.
The Hesters are seen on the grass.
Why can't Zapruder and Sitzman be seen walking away in Weigman?
Look again at the synchronisation JFK Theorist did of the Zaspruder and Weigman footage. Also, look at the synchronisation I did between these two films earlier in this thread which closely parallels the work done by JFK Theorist. You will notice that as Weigman runs towards the Hesters the Zapruder film is still running meaning Zapruder is still filming meaning that Zapruder and Sitzman are still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters.
That's why you can't see them walking away in Weigman.
As Weigman reaches the spot where he starts filming the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman get down from the pedestal.
Altgens8 is taken at the same moment. It is taken a brief moment before Weigmam has the Hesters centred and stable in his footage. Mr Hester immediately gets up and runs into the pergola.
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OK. The timestamp for the Bothun Photo is :30 seconds after the kill shot. Yet, we see Motorcycle Officer Hargis beginning to ride away. Considering everything that Hargis did, that :30 seems very quick for him to be riding away.
Also, that photo shows almost all of the Hargis motorcycle windshield. A detailed look at that windshield should reveal a lot of blood/brain matter on it. Hargis stopped his motorcycle quickly after the kill shot. Whatever was on that windshield should have remained "as is" on the Bothun Photo.
Hi Royell,
This William Allen photo shows Hargis' motorcycle parked in front of and to the side of the TSBD. His motorcycle number was 347. That's DPD officer Harkness looking at the front area of the motorcycle, with his hand holding the handle bar and probably Hargis to his right talking with Harkness. You can see a white helmet right next to Harkness' own helmet. They're probably discussing the head matter, some of which I think can be seen on the windshield, but it may just be reflections. Too bad there aren't more photos closer up.
(http://)(https://i.ibb.co/JF7TG0kL/Hargis-Motorcycle.png)
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Here's the actual first frame from the Darnell film, taken from my lossless Youtube download and not a lazy Youtube screenshot
(https://i.ibb.co/mV96F6m9/mpv-shot0011.png) (https://ibb.co/8Lr646Jr)
and NO the Bell Film does NOT SHOW WIEGMAN RUNNING, it shows a walking camera man at the bottom but not him running.
This is taken from a high quality 1080p version without the watermark.
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
Hi Matt, This Bell frame is the clearest version of the film I think I've ever seen, clearer than the 6th floor museum's released copy (which doesn't include the entire frames right side as well as all of the sprocket area, sadly).
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
Gloria Calvery and her dressed-in-white colleague are already standing in a lower step, one of their other colleagues has already taken the long way to the TSBD by running through the pergola and down Elm Street Extension, and Officer Baker has already parked his bike, glanced around, listened to his radio, and run to the front steps by the time Darnell's so-called "opening frame" was shot.
-- Tom
Tom,
The Darnell frame that Dan has posted is, in fact, the opening frame of the aftermath of the assassination. Baker et.al have not been recorded by Darnell yet at this point.
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Altgens 8 captures the moment Zapruder and Sitzman have just got off the pedestal and are walking away from it.
The Hesters are seen on the grass.
Why can't Zapruder and Sitzman be seen walking away in Weigman?
Look again at the synchronisation JFK Theorist did of the Zaspruder and Weigman footage. Also, look at the synchronisation I did between these two films earlier in this thread which closely parallels the work done by JFK Theorist. You will notice that as Weigman runs towards the Hesters the Zapruder film is still running meaning Zapruder is still filming meaning that Zapruder and Sitzman are still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters.
That's why you can't see them walking away in Weigman.
As Weigman reaches the spot where he starts filming the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman get down from the pedestal.
Altgens8 is taken at the same moment. It is taken a brief moment before Weigmam has the Hesters centred and stable in his footage. Mr Hester immediately gets up and runs into the pergola.
On a good copy of the Wiegman Film, (good being relative to the early Wiegman Film Copies), you can see the Pedestal, the Top of the Pedestal, and the concrete that we see Zapruder and Sitzman walking atop on Altgens 8. There is No Zapruder & No Sitzman in any of these areas on the Wiegman Film. Same goes for the Empty Shelter behind the pedestal. Zapruder and Sitzman are not on these Wiegman Film frames that show these areas. There's a couple of these frames when Wiegman was still physically on Elm St, and 2-3 good frames when Wiegman had physically moved onto the Knoll. This is before Wiegman filmed the Hesters. One of the guys that was wearing a shirt/jacket with the white trim that encircled the shoulder, is also filmed on the knoll. I believe this is 1 of the 2 guys we see on the Bell Film near/inside the shelter behind the Bench. (Time Stamp). The absence of Zapruder and Sitzman on these Wiegman Frames calls the current timeline assigned to the Wiegman Film into question. The same goes for the Bell Film timeline being Wrong. The Bell Film shows 2 guys wearing shirts with the shoulder trim inside the shelter behind the Bench.
During the Josiah Thompson interview of Sitzman for "Six Seconds In Dallas", Sitzman said that the 1st thing she did after getting down from the Pedestal was to go down to the bottom of the Knoll to see what was going on. (paraphrasing). She said she talked with who she thought was a SS Agent down there. She then returned to the top of the knoll. Maybe Sitzman being at the bottom, or in the process of reaching the bottom of the Knoll, explains her absence from the Wiegman Film? Zapruder's absence? I don't know.
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On a good copy of the Wiegman Film, (good being relative to the early Wiegman Film Copies), you can see the Pedestal, the Top of the Pedestal, and the concrete that we see Zapruder and Sitzman walking atop on Altgens 8. There is No Zapruder & No Sitzman in any of these areas on the Wiegman Film. Same goes for the Empty Shelter behind the pedestal. Zapruder and Sitzman are not on these Wiegman Film frames that show these areas. There's a couple of these frames when Wiegman was still physically on Elm St, and 2-3 good frames when Wiegman had physically moved onto the Knoll. This is before Wiegman filmed the Hesters. One of the guys that was wearing a shirt/jacket with the white trim that encircled the shoulder, is also filmed on the knoll. I believe this is 1 of the 2 guys we see on the Bell Film near/inside the shelter behind the Bench. (Time Stamp). The absence of Zapruder and Sitzman on these Wiegman Frames calls the current timeline assigned to the Wiegman Film into question. The same goes for the Bell Film timeline being Wrong. The Bell Film shows 2 guys wearing shirts with the shoulder trim inside the shelter behind the Bench.
During the Josiah Thompson interview of Sitzman for "Six Seconds In Dallas", Sitzman said that the 1st thing she did after getting down from the Pedestal was to go down to the bottom of the Knoll to see what was going on. (paraphrasing). She said she talked with who she thought was a SS Agent down there. She then returned to the top of the knoll. Maybe Sitzman being at the bottom, or in the process of reaching the bottom of the Knoll, explains her absence from the Wiegman Film? Zapruder's absence? I don't know.
From even the best copy of Weigman I can find and the best frame I can find, it's impossible to say whether or not Zapruder and Sitzman are on top of the pedestal. Zapruder is a black smudge against a black background and the footage is blurred and grainy.
To assert that all the film/photograph has been altered because you can't make out Zapruder in such poor quality footage is unrealistic.
If I come across better quality footage that shows, without question, that Zapruder is not on the pedestal during the Weigman footage I will concede something is seriously wrong. But I'm not anywhere near that.
Remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.
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From even the best copy of Weigman I can find and the best frame I can find, it's impossible to say whether or not Zapruder and Sitzman are on top of the pedestal. Zapruder is a black smudge against a black background and the footage is blurred and grainy.
To assert that all the film/photograph has been altered because you can't make out Zapruder in such poor quality footage is unrealistic.
If I come across better quality footage that shows, without question, that Zapruder is not on the pedestal during the Weigman footage I will concede something is seriously wrong. But I'm not anywhere near that.
Remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.
I am challenging the Wiegman Film "TIME LINE". You immediately have knee jerked to alleging that I have claimed, ".... all the footage has been altered". This is simply Not True.
I am using the Wiegman Film copy on the Discovery Channel DVD, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza". Specifically, what Wiegman Film copy are you examining?
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[Royell Storing], remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.
Because Dan Rather, who got to watch the confusing Zapruder film on 11/25/63 only one time (and who, understandingly, didn't take notes while doing so), ran back to the broadcasting studio as fast as he could and proceeded to tell the whole nation that it showed (among other mistakes) "the limousine turning onto Elm Street."
LOL!
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I am challenging the Wiegman Film "TIME LINE". You immediately have knee jerked to alleging that I have claimed, ".... all the footage has been altered". This is simply Not True.
I am using the Wiegman Film copy on the Discovery Channel DVD, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza". Specifically, what Wiegman Film copy are you examining?
I'm using the Weigman version at the JFK Theorist.
Just to clarify:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.
The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?
If you can provide a version of Weigman that clearly shows Zapruder and Sitzman are NOT on top of the pedestal while Weigman is running towards the Hesters then I will gladly concede that something suspicious is happening.
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I'm using the Weigman version at the JFK Theorist.
Just to clarify:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.
The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?
If you can provide a version of Weigman that clearly shows Zapruder and Sitzman are NOT on top of the pedestal while Weigman is running towards the Hesters then I will gladly concede that something suspicious is happening.
There are several issues from credible sources that you have Not taken into consideration: (1) The Thompson interview of Sitzman and her claiming that after getting down from the pedestal, she then went Down to the BOTTOM of the Knoll. (2) Wiegman detailing in "Pictures Of The Pain" that he saw SA Lem Johns UP on the knoll. Just how firm is the Wiegman ID on the Bell Film? The figure falling/running across the top of the knoll is cavalierly accepted as being Wiegman due to his wearing a Hat. Is it possible that SA Lem Johns was wearing a Hat UP on the Knoll? That I am aware of, Wiegman NEVER ID'd himself as being this figure on the Bell Film. Nor did anyone else.
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There are several issues from credible sources that you have Not taken into consideration: (1) The Thompson interview of Sitzman and her claiming that after getting down from the pedestal, she then went Down to the BOTTOM of the Knoll. (2) Wiegman detailing in "Pictures Of The Pain" that he saw SA Lem Johns UP on the knoll. Just how firm is the Wiegman ID on the Bell Film? The figure falling/running across the top of the knoll is cavalierly accepted as being Wiegman due to his wearing a Hat. Is it possible that SA Lem Johns was wearing a Hat UP on the Knoll? That I am aware of, Wiegman NEVER ID'd himself as being this figure on the Bell Film. Nor did anyone else.
Sitzman and Johns are completely irrelevant regarding the issue being dealt with.
How firm is the Weigman ID in Bell?
It's 100& Weigman.
You already accepted this ID but are now backtracking for some reason.
YOU must do your own analysis of the Weigman footage to determine his position when he filmed the Hesters.
You will see hie is approaching the concrete platform, just before he starts filming the Hesters his camera points downwards to reveal he is lying on this platform, thge footage is taken from floor level and use the pillars in the background to determine his reletive angle to them (I've already done this in an earlier post).
When you've done this analysis you will be 100% convinced it is Weigman in Bell.
When you are convinced of that consider the following from my previous post:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.
The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?
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Sitzman and Johns are completely irrelevant regarding the issue being dealt with.
How firm is the Weigman ID in Bell?
It's 100& Weigman.
You already accepted this ID but are now backtracking for some reason.
YOU must do your own analysis of the Weigman footage to determine his position when he filmed the Hesters.
You will see hie is approaching the concrete platform, just before he starts filming the Hesters his camera points downwards to reveal he is lying on this platform, thge footage is taken from floor level and use the pillars in the background to determine his reletive angle to them (I've already done this in an earlier post).
When you've done this analysis you will be 100% convinced it is Weigman in Bell.
When you are convinced of that consider the following from my previous post:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.
The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?
I am going to stop you at your very 1st point. Sitzman was needed to steady Zapruder on the pedestal. She would have needed to help him down from that same pedestal. She is also supposed to have then gone inside the shelter with Zapruder. Based on Sitzman telling Josiah Thompson that after she got down from the pedestal, she then went DOWN to the BOTTOM of the Knoll, makes this age old stuff of Sitzman sticking to Zapruder another JFK Urban Legend. Like the bucket sitting next to the JFK Limo being stored inside the JFK Limo trunk, and Barber's thread dismantling JFK clutching at his chest/throat. If YOU are going to establish timelines, you need to stick to the FACTS. Not JFK Assassination Urban Legends that mirror the clap trap connected to the Lost Dutchman's Mine. And "snychronisations" are Not Facts. The Wiegman Film is a FACT. Sitzman and Zapruder are Not on the Pedestal or near the Pedestal on the Wiegman Film. The frames showing they are Not There are shot from Elm St and from the Knoll. 2 different views at 2 different points in time.
On "Unsolved History JFK Death In Dealey Plaza" (2003) Discovery Channel, Gary Mack takes Wiegman on a walk-through there on the Knoll. Wiegman then describes what he did on the Knoll. At NO POINT does Wiegman mention running across the knoll like that figure we see on the Bell Film. You need to establish what is FACT and what is JFK Assassination Urban Legend/Clap Trap. To this day, NOBODY including Wiegman himself has EVER verified the figure we see running across the Knoll on the Bell Film is Wiegman.
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I am going to stop you at your very 1st point. Sitzman was needed to steady Zapruder on the pedestal. She would have needed to help him down from that same pedestal. She is also supposed to have then gone inside the shelter with Zapruder. Based on Sitzman telling Josiah Thompson that after she got down from the pedestal, she then went DOWN to the BOTTOM of the Knoll, makes this age old stuff of Sitzman sticking to Zapruder another JFK Urban Legend. Like the bucket sitting next to the JFK Limo being stored inside the JFK Limo trunk, and Barber's thread dismantling JFK clutching at his chest/throat. If YOU are going to establish timelines, you need to stick to the FACTS. Not JFK Assassination Urban Legends that mirror the clap trap connected to the Lost Dutchman's Mine. And "snychronisations" are Not Facts. The Wiegman Film is a FACT. Sitzman and Zapruder are Not on the Pedestal or near the Pedestal on the Wiegman Film. The frames showing they are Not There are shot from Elm St and from the Knoll. 2 different views at 2 different points in time.
On "Unsolved History JFK Death In Dealey Plaza" (2003) Discovery Channel, Gary Mack takes Wiegman on a walk-through there on the Knoll. Wiegman then describes what he did on the Knoll. At NO POINT does Wiegman mention running across the knoll like that figure we see on the Bell Film. You need to establish what is FACT and what is JFK Assassination Urban Legend/Clap Trap. To this day, NOBODY including Wiegman himself has EVER verified the figure we see running across the Knoll on the Bell Film is Wiegman.
At NO POINT does Wiegman mention running across the knoll like that figure we see on the Bell Film.
Point out this figure running across the knoll in the Bell film.
Weigman never moves from his position.
What person are you talking about?
Give me a version of the Bell film and give me the timestamp of that film where we can see this figure you say is running across the knoll.
Have you done an analysis of the Weigman film?
Have you worked out where Weigman was when he filmed the Hesters?
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Here's the actual first frame from the Darnell film, taken from my lossless Youtube download and not a lazy Youtube screenshot
(https://i.ibb.co/mV96F6m9/mpv-shot0011.png) (https://ibb.co/8Lr646Jr)
and NO the Bell Film does NOT SHOW WIEGMAN RUNNING, it shows a walking camera man at the bottom but not him running.
This is taken from a high quality 1080p version without the watermark.
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
DAN - The Newman Family was on the ground to the (L) of the above light pole. Wiegman filmed the Newman Family while also standing on the (L) of this same light pole. How do you believe the Hatted figure/Wiegman? in the Bell still frame above, got to be on the (L) side of the light pole? He had to of moved (L) across the knoll. And, bear in mind that the Couch Film shows a figure/Wiegman? running STRAIGHT DOWN the knoll.
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DAN - The Newman Family was on the ground to the (L) of the above light pole. Wiegman filmed the Newman Family while also standing on the (L) of this same light pole. How do you believe the Hatted figure/Wiegman? in the Bell still frame above, got to be on the (L) side of the light pole? He had to of moved (L) across the knoll. And, bear in mind that the Couch Film shows a figure/Wiegman? running STRAIGHT DOWN the knoll.
You posted this: To this day, NOBODY including Wiegman himself has EVER verified the figure we see running across the Knoll on the Bell Film is Wiegman
I am asking you a very simple question - can you point out the figure running across the knoll on the Bell film?
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You posted this: To this day, NOBODY including Wiegman himself has EVER verified the figure we see running across the Knoll on the Bell Film is Wiegman
I am asking you a very simple question - can you point out the figure running across the knoll on the Bell film?
You're dodging. And for a very good reason. You know where Wiegman was standing when he filmed the Newman Family. There is image evidence to validate this physical position. Wiegman was standing well (W) of where we see this hatted figure on the Bell Film. If you believe this hatted figure on the Bell Film is Wiegman, how do you think he got down there next to the Newman Family? Magic Carpet? If you think that hatted figure is Wiegman, that figure had to move (W) and (S) to arrive alongside the Newman Family.
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You're dodging. And for a very good reason. You know where Wiegman was standing when he filmed the Newman Family. There is image evidence to validate this physical position. Wiegman was standing well (W) of where we see this hatted figure on the Bell Film. If you believe this hatted figure on the Bell Film is Wiegman, how do you think he got down there next to the Newman Family? Magic Carpet? If you think that hatted figure is Wiegman, that figure had to move (W) and (S) to arrive alongside the Newman Family.
No Royell, I'm not dodging anything.
I'm trying my hardest to work with you but you keep inventing things that aren't happening, which makes it impossible to move forward. The vast majority of my time on this thread has been trying to unravel nonsense you are making up out of thin air. Near the beginning of this thread you were insisting the Bell film showed Weigman running towards Zapruder. This turned out to be made up nonsense. Now you are again insisting there is a man running across the knoll in the Bell footage who someone has claimed is Weigman. This is complete nonsense. I'm challenging you to produce proof of the claims you have made about this person running in the Bell film. I'm starting to believe you are either lying, for some inexplicable reason, or something worse.
I'm not wasting another second on this until you clarify why you have been making these claims about Weigman running in the Bell footage when no such thing happens.
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No Royell, I'm not dodging anything.
I'm trying my hardest to work with you but you keep inventing things that aren't happening, which makes it impossible to move forward. The vast majority of my time on this thread has been trying to unravel nonsense you are making up out of thin air. Near the beginning of this thread you were insisting the Bell film showed Weigman running towards Zapruder. This turned out to be made up nonsense. Now you are again insisting there is a man running across the knoll in the Bell footage who someone has claimed is Weigman. This is complete nonsense. I'm challenging you to produce proof of the claims you have made about this person running in the Bell film. I'm starting to believe you are either lying, for some inexplicable reason, or something worse.
I'm not wasting another second on this until you clarify why you have been making these claims about Weigman running in the Bell footage when no such thing happens.
So, are you claiming the Hatted Figure on the Bell Film is standing Stock Still? I see the Bell Film showing this Hatted Figure from his side and he is moving (W). Just like we see a football running back moving on TV. Zapruder is NW of this in motion (W) bound Hatted Figure.
And you continue avoiding the SA Lem Johns issue. Why? Because once again I have raised a documented issue you were completely unaware of. Same goes for Sitzman claiming to have gone down to the bottom of the Knoll after climbing down from the Perch. Just because you are Unaware of an issue(s) I raise, does Not mean it is "complete nonsense". As the saying goes, "It's what you learn after you know-it-all that counts".
If You believe this Hatted Figure is Wiegman, at some point he HAS TO move (W) and (S) in order to eventually stand next to the Newman Family and film them on the ground at the bottom of the Knoll.
And, if you are going to seriously assign Time Lines, YOU need to shell out the $$ and buy yourself a copy of Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain". That is considered The Bible with respect to JFK Assassination Images.
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So, are you claiming the Hatted Figure on the Bell Film is standing Stock Still? I see the Bell Film showing this Hatted Figure from his side and he is moving (W). Just like we see a football running back moving on TV. Zapruder is NW of this in motion (W) bound Hatted Figure.
And you continue avoiding the SA Lem Johns issue. Why? Because once again I have raised a documented issue you were completely unaware of. Same goes for Sitzman claiming to have gone down to the bottom of the Knoll after climbing down from the Perch. Just because you are Unaware of an issue(s) I raise, does Not mean it is "complete nonsense". As the saying goes, "It's what you learn after you know-it-all that counts".
If You believe this Hatted Figure is Wiegman, at some point he HAS TO move (W) and (S) in order to eventually stand next to the Newman Family and film them on the ground at the bottom of the Knoll.
And, if you are going to seriously assign Time Lines, YOU need to shell out the $$ and buy yourself a copy of Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain". That is considered The Bible with respect to JFK Assassination Images.
I see the Bell Film showing this Hatted Figure from his side and he is moving (W).
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
Is the hatted figure you are talking about in the frame above?
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I see the Bell Film showing this Hatted Figure from his side and he is moving (W).
(https://i.ibb.co/WZN1rg9/mpv-shot0012.png) (https://ibb.co/BbHRhqD)
Is the hatted figure you are talking about in the frame above?
Yes.
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Yes.
Is it the guy I've circled in yellow?
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YpGnQHc/bellframecircle.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Is it the guy I've circled in yellow?
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YpGnQHc/bellframecircle.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Yes, that guy wearing a HAT inside the Yellow Circle has ALWAYS been accepted as being Wiegman. Yet, No eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman in this position on the Bell Film and this includes Wiegman himself.
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Yes, that guy wearing a HAT inside the Yellow Circle has ALWAYS been accepted as being Wiegman. Yet, No eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman in this position on the Bell Film and this includes Wiegman himself.
So, this is the guy you have been claiming can be seen running across the knoll in the Bell film?
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So, this is the guy you have been claiming can be seen running across the knoll in the Bell film?
YES. He is moving (W) across the grass, just below the steps.
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this is the sixth floor museum copy, actually.
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Apparently the secret to finding this type of HD frames is not being lazy and being more tech savvy (no offense, mister), but i am kinda jealous of one thing, how come you guys have all these DVDs and documentaries while i have more tech savviness and no money? seriously, this stuff is overpriced on Amazon (after taxes by the way). So unless i sell a kidney or two, i don't think i'll get to see HD Muchmore and Wiegman for myself.
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Apparently the secret to finding this type of HD frames is not being lazy and being more tech savvy (no offense, mister), but i am kinda jealous of one thing, how come you guys have all these DVDs and documentaries while i have more tech savviness and no money? seriously, this stuff is overpriced on Amazon (after taxes by the way). So unless i sell a kidney or two, i don't think i'll get to see HD Muchmore and Wiegman for myself.
I urge You and others to search through "Ebay" for your JFK Assassination Research Material. There's a library book copy of "Pictures Of The Pain" there for $35 + Free Shipping. You can also get new copies for $65. You can get a copy of Gary Mack's, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" DVD, (with the better definition Wiegman Film among many other JFK assassination films and photos), for $25 + Free Ship for a brand new copy. The vast majority of vendors on Ebay are Mom & Pop businesses and you can directly email them with any question(s) and receive a quick response.
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Alright, thanks a lot! Hope my wallet survives though, free shipping is included, but once it gets in Brazil, it gets taxed, but i'll just save money to afford the item + any surprise taxes.
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YES. He is moving (W) across the grass, just below the steps.
That is not true.
This figure is not moving across the grass.
He appears for less than two seconds and does not move from that spot.
There is a suggestion this figure is starting to get up from a prone position, that's all.
I can't understand how you are seeing him moving across the grass when it doesn't happen.
Below are three stills from the Bell film showing this figure when we first see him, half way though and the last moment we see him. The duration of his appearance is less than 2 seconds. In that time he does not move from that spot.
On top of that, he is not stood up, he is lying across the steps and about to get up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tWr3fxc/Bellwide1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX25qsBY/Bellwide2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrL91By6/Bellwide3.png)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/mDkwLpFY/Darnellearliestframe.png)
The image above is the opening frame of Jimmy Darnell's footage of the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.
I would like to determine, to the second if possible, how long after the headshot this footage started.
One thing that should be visible in this footage is Dave Weigman getting out of the car in front and sprinting towards the concrete pergola on the GK.
The only thing that catches my eye at the moment is a detail off in the distance.
In the crop below, in the red circle are Umbrella Man and Dark Complected Man sat down.
In the yellow circle is the Newman's lying flat on the grass. The reason this is important is that there are no photographers stood around them. This is something that seemed to happen really quickly and it might be possible to use this detail for a timeline:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvVbj421/Darnellearliestframecircled.png)
I've been able to successfully synchronize most of the aftermath footage within a margin of error of +/- 1 or 2 frames (1/24 of a sec) and the minimum time between Zapruder frame 313 and the beginning of Darnell's and Mal Couch's footage is 24 seconds. The work of Dale Myers supports this figure, though I assume most will not believe it simply because of his name, which I find odd.
I find Bart Kamp's claim that Darnell began filming 10 SECONDS after the headshot to be completely hysterical, since my own synchronizations, and Myers' too, have consistently shown it to be impossible for Darnell to have started filming prior to at least 24 seconds after the headshot.
I do not intend to release my synchronizations publicly any time soon because they still lack high quality versions of most footage, and due to certain disagreements I've had before, I am weary of sharing them, but if anyone would like, I can provide copies and/or clips from my synchronizations if necessary.
You're all welcome to disagree with my timing, but I'm not likely to respond, given I don't come on here often, and I find most forums to be rather hostile or mostly unhelpful anyway.
Email me at thejfktheoristmail@gmail.com if needed.
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I've been able to successfully synchronize most of the aftermath footage within a margin of error of +/- 1 or 2 frames (1/24 of a sec) and the minimum time between Zapruder frame 313 and the beginning of Darnell's and Mal Couch's footage is 24 seconds. The work of Dale Myers supports this figure, though I assume most will not believe it simply because of his name, which I find odd.
I find Bart Kamp's claim that Darnell began filming 10 SECONDS after the headshot to be completely hysterical, since my own synchronizations, and Myers' too, have consistently shown it to be impossible for Darnell to have started filming prior to at least 24 seconds after the headshot.
I do not intend to release my synchronizations publicly any time soon because they still lack high quality versions of most footage, and due to certain disagreements I've had before, I am weary of sharing them, but if anyone would like, I can provide copies and/or clips from my synchronizations if necessary.
You're all welcome to disagree with my timing, but I'm not likely to respond, given I don't come on here often, and I find most forums to be rather hostile or mostly unhelpful anyway.
Email me at thejfktheoristmail@gmail.com if needed.
Thanks for contributing to O/meara's thread here. And thanks for your many "YOU TUBE" videos.
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That is not true.
This figure is not moving across the grass.
He appears for less than two seconds and does not move from that spot.
There is a suggestion this figure is starting to get up from a prone position, that's all.
I can't understand how you are seeing him moving across the grass when it doesn't happen.
Below are three stills from the Bell film showing this figure when we first see him, half way though and the last moment we see him. The duration of his appearance is less than 2 seconds. In that time he does not move from that spot.
On top of that, he is not stood up, he is lying across the steps and about to get up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tWr3fxc/Bellwide1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX25qsBY/Bellwide2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrL91By6/Bellwide3.png)
Think it through.
You originally claimed the Wiegman figure was at the top of the steps & on level ground with the Hester's. The Top of the steps would be on-line with the Bench we see on the (R). If this figure with a hat on is Wiegman, he has to go Back Down those steps in order to eventually arrive alongside the Newman Family at the bottom of the Knoll. The Bell Film still frames posted above show Wiegman has stopped filming and gone Back Down those steps. He is now on the Knoll Grass. He has pivoted/turned to his Right/(W), and is stumbling or falling. We are seeing him stumbling/falling from his (L) side. What we are seeing is like watching a football player stumbling/falling (R-L) on a TV screen. And this figure is moving. Just look at his (L) hand. If this is Wiegman above, he eventually arrives alongside the Newman Family on the (L) of the street light pole that we see in these still frames. If this figure is Wiegman, how do you believe he eventually arrives on the (L) of this light pole? This figure has to move to our Left/(W) at some point in time to eventually be on the Left/(W) of the light pole.
The Couch Film shows what is believed to be this same figure moving STRAIGHT DOWN the knoll. This STRAIGHT DOWN the knoll would be happening after this figure moved to our Left/(W) across the top of the knoll. Please familiarize yourself with a good copy of the Couch Film. Stay away from the Couch crappola copies.
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Guys if you want more un-watermarked bell frames, just send the one you want and i'll get the HD frame.
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wait, could it be that the walking man is Thomas McAtkins?
(https://i.ibb.co/hJ6Czzv6/ic.png) (https://ibb.co/hJ6Czzv6)
unlikely those are the newmans however.
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Oh. There's Thomas McAtkins and the Newmans.
(https://i.ibb.co/k29vJkRf/mpv-shot0030.png) (https://ibb.co/TMbd1pVS)
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I've been able to successfully synchronize most of the aftermath footage within a margin of error of +/- 1 or 2 frames (1/24 of a sec) and the minimum time between Zapruder frame 313 and the beginning of Darnell's and Mal Couch's footage is 24 seconds. The work of Dale Myers supports this figure, though I assume most will not believe it simply because of his name, which I find odd.
I find Bart Kamp's claim that Darnell began filming 10 SECONDS after the headshot to be completely hysterical, since my own synchronizations, and Myers' too, have consistently shown it to be impossible for Darnell to have started filming prior to at least 24 seconds after the headshot.
Alex, in your opinion, what does the 24-second figure mean relative to Kamp's 10-second claim? And do you have any thoughts on Royell Storing's claims about fake policemen wearing only one glove while infiltrating the aftermath in Dealey Plaza?
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I've been able to successfully synchronize most of the aftermath footage within a margin of error of +/- 1 or 2 frames (1/24 of a sec) and the minimum time between Zapruder frame 313 and the beginning of Darnell's and Mal Couch's footage is 24 seconds. The work of Dale Myers supports this figure, though I assume most will not believe it simply because of his name, which I find odd.
I find Bart Kamp's claim that Darnell began filming 10 SECONDS after the headshot to be completely hysterical, since my own synchronizations, and Myers' too, have consistently shown it to be impossible for Darnell to have started filming prior to at least 24 seconds after the headshot.
I do not intend to release my synchronizations publicly any time soon because they still lack high quality versions of most footage, and due to certain disagreements I've had before, I am weary of sharing them, but if anyone would like, I can provide copies and/or clips from my synchronizations if necessary.
You're all welcome to disagree with my timing, but I'm not likely to respond, given I don't come on here often, and I find most forums to be rather hostile or mostly unhelpful anyway.
Email me at thejfktheoristmail@gmail.com if needed.
SHANKS - To be accurate, he says, "...at LEAST 24 seconds after the head shot".
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SHANKS - To be accurate, he says, "...at LEAST 24 seconds after the head shot".
I wasn't talking to you.
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Alex, in your opinion, what does the 24-second figure mean relative to Kamp's 10-second claim? And do you have any thoughts on Royell Storing's claims about fake policemen wearing only one glove while infiltrating the aftermath in Dealey Plaza?
Again, to be accurate, my claim is 1 Bogus DPD Motorcycle Cop roaming across the railroad yard and then down/toward the Elm St Ext. NOT "...fake policeMEN wearing only one glove.....".
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Alex, in your opinion, what does the 24-second figure mean relative to Kamp's 10-second claim? And do you have any thoughts on Royell Storing's claims about fake policemen wearing only one glove while infiltrating the aftermath in Dealey Plaza?
I'm not exactly sure what Kamp would gain if it were only 10 seconds, other than a slightly more impressive number, of course, though I guess it helps slightly with his claim that Prayer Man/Woman is Oswald. I originally encountered Kamp's claim somewhere on Facebook, and I replied to him, informing him of my synchronization work and the 24-second figure, and he responded by saying that I am "way off", without ever bothering to actually watch the synchronization I sent him, of course. I could gripe about Kamp for ages, but the core of it is that not only do I disagree with him, he IS factually wrong with numerous things, and frankly, after reading the few portions in his book in which he actually discusses the photographic evidence AT ALL, which you'd think to be essential to the Prayer Man theory, I get the impression that he has not bothered to do any research other than trying to get the best copy, and very obviously knows little to nothing about Darnell, or cameras in general. I have a passion for shooting on film, and have even shot 16mm film on a camera essentially identical to Darnell's, and maybe I'm showing my ego a bit, but I would say I know more than a thing or two about shooting on film, as well as many other things.
As for Royell Storing's claims, that's not really my area of expertise. There are a few things I can try to check, I guess, but I'm not sure if there's enough out there to support or disprove such claims. It's an interesting claim, but I'm not sure exactly how one would go about proving it. I'm working on obtaining a scan of a film right now that may help with and/or some of Royell's other claims, and I'd rather not say much about it right now, but it's looking like it'll be around $1500 for a scan of usable quality. I was lucky enough to get some sort of a job this summer, so I should be able to relatively soon, especially with the help of a certain researcher I am acquainted with who wishes to remain anonymous. I will try to remember to come back on here when I get the film, but if I don't, I'm sure you'll see it around.
p.s. I also put in a request for a research copy of the Darnell film (and LOTS more footage) to the 6FM, but they don't seem to check their emails anymore, so I doubt it'll get anywhere. I also have particularly enticing copies of a few films which I am unable to share here for personal and/or legal reasons, though I hope to be able to share them within a few years. It pains me that I have these things and certain knowledge that I can't share, but I'd rather not get in trouble for messing up a case such as the one I'm currently helping with, which, again, I can't say much about. The research community is on the brink of SEVERAL MAJOR releases of newly found information, photos, videos, etc., I can say that with certainty.
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I'm not exactly sure what Kamp would gain if it were only 10 seconds, other than a slightly more impressive number, of course, though I guess it helps slightly with his claim that Prayer Man/Woman is Oswald. I originally encountered Kamp's claim somewhere on Facebook, and I replied to him, informing him of my synchronization work and the 24-second figure, and he responded by saying that I am "way off", without ever bothering to actually watch the synchronization I sent him, of course. I could gripe about Kamp for ages, but the core of it is that not only do I disagree with him, he IS factually wrong with numerous things, and frankly, after reading the few portions in his book in which he actually discusses the photographic evidence AT ALL, which you'd think to be essential to the Prayer Man theory, I get the impression that he has not bothered to do any research other than trying to get the best copy, and very obviously knows little to nothing about Darnell, or cameras in general. I have a passion for shooting on film, and have even shot 16mm film on a camera essentially identical to Darnell's, and maybe I'm showing my ego a bit, but I would say I know more than a thing or two about shooting on film, as well as many other things.
As for Royell Storing's claims, that's not really my area of expertise. There are a few things I can try to check, I guess, but I'm not sure if there's enough out there to support or disprove such claims. It's an interesting claim, but I'm not sure exactly how one would go about proving it. I'm working on obtaining a scan of a film right now that may help with and/or some of Royell's other claims, and I'd rather not say much about it right now, but it's looking like it'll be around $1500 for a scan of usable quality. I was lucky enough to get some sort of a job this summer, so I should be able to relatively soon, especially with the help of a certain researcher I am acquainted with who wishes to remain anonymous. I will try to remember to come back on here when I get the film, but if I don't, I'm sure you'll see it around.
p.s. I also put in a request for a research copy of the Darnell film (and LOTS more footage) to the 6FM, but they don't seem to check their emails anymore, so I doubt it'll get anywhere. I also have particularly enticing copies of a few films which I am unable to share here for personal and/or legal reasons, though I hope to be able to share them within a few years. It pains me that I have these things and certain knowledge that I can't share, but I'd rather not get in trouble for messing up a case such as the one I'm currently helping with, which, again, I can't say much about. The research community is on the brink of SEVERAL MAJOR releases of newly found information, photos, videos, etc., I can say that with certainty.
Thanks for everything that you have done and continuing doing regarding the JFK Assassination. What you have already achieved at such at early age is unique. Considering the age of Groden, Thompson, et al, YOU will soon become the "Go To Guy" whenever the subject is the JFK Assassination.
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Thanks for everything that you have done and continuing doing regarding the JFK Assassination. What you have already achieved at such at early age is unique. Considering the age of Groden, Thompson, et al, YOU will soon become the "Go To Guy" whenever the subject is the JFK Assassination.
He has many decades of futility to look forward to.
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I've been able to successfully synchronize most of the aftermath footage within a margin of error of +/- 1 or 2 frames (1/24 of a sec) and the minimum time between Zapruder frame 313 and the beginning of Darnell's and Mal Couch's footage is 24 seconds. The work of Dale Myers supports this figure, though I assume most will not believe it simply because of his name, which I find odd.
I find Bart Kamp's claim that Darnell began filming 10 SECONDS after the headshot to be completely hysterical, since my own synchronizations, and Myers' too, have consistently shown it to be impossible for Darnell to have started filming prior to at least 24 seconds after the headshot.
I do not intend to release my synchronizations publicly any time soon because they still lack high quality versions of most footage, and due to certain disagreements I've had before, I am weary of sharing them, but if anyone would like, I can provide copies and/or clips from my synchronizations if necessary.
You're all welcome to disagree with my timing, but I'm not likely to respond, given I don't come on here often, and I find most forums to be rather hostile or mostly unhelpful anyway.
Email me at thejfktheoristmail@gmail.com if needed.
Hi Alex, to be honest, I'm coming up with an even quicker time for the beginning of the Darnell footage that begins with this frame:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtSXrd6t/Darnellearliestframe.png) (https://postimages.org/)
It's something closer to 19 seconds as I believe Weigman is in position filming the Hesters during this frame.
Whatever the case, a big thanks to yourself for providing some excellent quality footage to work with.
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I never really share this info before but, well, here goes nothing, I'm actually 14, and i never actually shot on film, i'm from Brazil, and, see, unlike Alex (great guy by the way), i don't have $1500 or anywhere near that to pay for scans, But hopefully in the future when i sell my kidneys- i mean, find a way to make money, i wanted to have a HD scan of the DCA film, yes i'm a DCA fanboy. I have done amateur multi camera syncronizations of some films before but i never really touched anything Darnell, Wiegman or Couch related (probably because all those films don't surface in the best quality), heck, i personally get tired of always seeing constant re-uploads of the Groden DVD. Which isn't ideal, since i'm looking for unique sources, but oh well, the JFKA community is one hell of a community.
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I never really share this info before but, well, here goes nothing, I'm actually 14, and i never actually shot on film, i'm from Brazil, and, see, unlike Alex (great guy by the way), i don't have $1500 or anywhere near that to pay for scans, But hopefully in the future when i sell my kidneys- i mean, find a way to make money, i wanted to have a HD scan of the DCA film, yes i'm a DCA fanboy. I have done amateur multi camera syncronizations of some films before but i never really touched anything Darnell, Wiegman or Couch related (probably because all those films don't surface in the best quality), heck, i personally get tired of always seeing constant re-uploads of the Groden DVD. Which isn't ideal, since i'm looking for unique sources, but oh well, the JFKA community is one hell of a community.
If you have access to "YOU TUBE", you can access Alex's\"The JFK Theorist" videos there. This includes many of the JFK Assassination Films in higher definition. The Groden DVD is garbage compared to what Alex has posted. There are others on YOU TUBE that have posted Hi Def JFK Assassination films too. This includes the Zapruder Film.
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Hi Alex, to be honest, I'm coming up with an even quicker time for the beginning of the Darnell footage that begins with this frame:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtSXrd6t/Darnellearliestframe.png) (https://postimages.org/)
It's something closer to 19 seconds as I believe Weigman is in position filming the Hesters during this frame.
Whatever the case, a big thanks to yourself for providing some excellent quality footage to work with.
It has always been a mystery to me why the Hesters would move from the Bench Area back to roughly the middle of the Pergola and THEN believe they needed to get down on the ground. Same goes for Mumford moving from the curb to up on the Knoll and THEN getting down on the ground. And the Chism Family moving from the curb/street, going well UP the knoll and THEN literally sprinting across it to the other side of Officer Haygood's motorcycle.
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It has always been a mystery to me why the Hesters would move from the Bench Area back to roughly the middle of the Pergola and THEN believe they needed to get down on the ground. Same goes for Mumford moving from the curb to up on the Knoll and THEN getting down on the ground. And the Chism Family moving from the curb/street, going well UP the knoll and THEN literally sprinting across it to the other side of Officer Haygood's motorcycle.
WOW! You really do have important stuff to fret about.
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Oh. There's Thomas McAtkins and the Newmans.
(https://i.ibb.co/k29vJkRf/mpv-shot0030.png) (https://ibb.co/TMbd1pVS)
It's Atkins, not McAtkins. Thumb1:
Thomas M. Atkins (1934–2011) was a U.S. Navy commander and official White House cinematographer who rode in the press/camera car directly behind President John F. Kennedy's motorcade in Dallas on November 22, 1963.
Immediately following the shots in Dealey Plaza, Atkins jumped out and captured crucial early color film footage of the chaotic scene.
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Oh. There's Thomas McAtkins and the Newmans.
(https://i.ibb.co/k29vJkRf/mpv-shot0030.png) (https://ibb.co/TMbd1pVS)
The suited gents are: (L) Altgens, and (R) Wiegman.
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Obviously i do have Youtube, and actually, i've been following his channel, he posts amazing stuff, the problem is, he kinda doesn't list his sources + Youtube uses compressed video format so it's not 100% lossless.
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Obviously i do have Youtube, and actually, i've been following his channel, he posts amazing stuff, the problem is, he kinda doesn't list his sources + Youtube uses compressed video format so it's not 100% lossless.
So because YOU TUBE is "not 100% lossless", you are gonna walk away from JFK Assassination Film Copies posted by "The JFK Theorist"/Alex Harris? You're cheating yourself while waiting on your coveted Golden Goose. Alex posted a snippet of the Darnell Film that is very, very seldom included in Any copy of the Darnell Film. Including a copy of the Darnell Film that was posted by this forum.
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Hi Alex, to be honest, I'm coming up with an even quicker time for the beginning of the Darnell footage that begins with this frame:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtSXrd6t/Darnellearliestframe.png) (https://postimages.org/)
It's something closer to 19 seconds as I believe Weigman is in position filming the Hesters during this frame.
Whatever the case, a big thanks to yourself for providing some excellent quality footage to work with.
Look at the background of this Darnell Film opening frame. You can see the Zapruder perch. We do Not see Zapruder and/or Sitzman anywhere. They are not On the Perch, they are Not near the perch, they are Not anywhere on the cement that is around the Perch. They are simply NOT there. And how long did it take Zapruder who was suffering from vertigo to dismount that Pedestal? Certainly more than 15 seconds. Much more. This Darnell opening frame is far later than roughly 15 seconds after the Kill Shot. And much later than the Bell Film which does show Zapruder wandering around the cement area near the Pedestal. The current time stamp of the Darnell Film is Wrong. And so is the :20 second time stamp that has been applied to this same Darnell film showing Officer Baker running across the Island.
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Look at the background of this Darnell Film opening frame. You can see the Zapruder perch. We do Not see Zapruder and/or Sitzman anywhere. They are not On the Perch, they are Not near the perch, they are Not anywhere on the cement that is around the Perch. They are simply NOT there. And how long did it take Zapruder who was suffering from vertigo to dismount that Pedestal? Certainly more than 15 seconds. Much more. This Darnell opening frame is far later than roughly 15 seconds after the Kill Shot. And much later than the Bell Film which does show Zapruder wandering around the cement area near the Pedestal. The current time stamp of the Darnell Film is Wrong. And so is the :20 second time stamp that has been applied to this same Darnell film showing Officer Baker running across the Island.
The work done synchronising the Bell and Zapruder films demonstrates Zapruder was down from the pedestal and a few steps away from it in less than 12 seconds.
The reason you can't see them near the pedestal in the Darnell frame is because the Thornton sign is in the way.
From the work I've done on this I put Baker reaching the steps of the TSBD about 19 seconds after the headshot.
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The work done synchronising the Bell and Zapruder films demonstrates Zapruder was down from the pedestal and a few steps away from it in less than 12 seconds.
The reason you can't see them near the pedestal in the Darnell frame is because the Thornton sign is in the way.
From the work I've done on this I put Baker reaching the steps of the TSBD about 19 seconds after the headshot.
That I am aware of, there are No Images of Sitzman wandering away from the Zapruder Perch to the point where our viewing of her "Might" be obscured by the Thornton Sign. The Bell Film shows Sitzman going Straight toward/into the shelter directly behind the Zapruder Perch. She's still very close to the Z pedestal. And Zapruder is in shock and meandering close by her. And we also see Wiegman moving (W) across the top of the Knoll. Just where are ALL of these people on the opening frames of the Darnell Film? And, that opening frame of the Darnell Film shows the driver of Camera Car #2 standing flat footed outside of his car. ALL of this is going on only 19 seconds after the Kill Shot? Whether it be the "Missing" Zapruder and Sitzman, the "Missing" 3rd man standing at the bottom of The Steps on Willis 5, or the "Missing" Getaway Car on the Wiegman Film. The timeline of this Darnell Film snippet is wrong. And like dominoes, so are the assigned timelines of other images. And why? Because Wiegman filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass. Which traces back to an extended "rolling Stop" or a complete "Stop" of the JFK Limo on Elm St.
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That I am aware of, there are No Images of Sitzman wandering away from the Zapruder Perch to the point where our viewing of her "Might" be obscured by the Thornton Sign. The Bell Film shows Sitzman going Straight toward/into the shelter directly behind the Zapruder Perch. She's still very close to the Z pedestal. And Zapruder is in shock and meandering close by her. And we also see Wiegman moving (W) across the top of the Knoll. Just where are ALL of these people on the opening frames of the Darnell Film? And, that opening frame of the Darnell Film shows the driver of Camera Car #2 standing flat footed outside of his car. ALL of this is going on only 19 seconds after the Kill Shot? Whether it be the "Missing" Zapruder and Sitzman, the "Missing" 3rd man standing at the bottom of The Steps on Willis 5, or the "Missing" Getaway Car on the Wiegman Film. The timeline of this Darnell Film snippet is wrong. And like dominoes, so are the assigned timelines of other images. And why? Because Wiegman filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass. Which traces back to an extended "rolling Stop" or a complete "Stop" of the JFK Limo on Elm St.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4dX88ZcB/Weigman-Thornton.png)
The Thornton sign perfectly covers where Zapruder and Sitzman are seconds after the headshot in the Darnell footage.
But it doesn't matter.
It makes no difference to any kind of discussion with you, Royell.
It's like trying to deal with someone whose dropped acid.
You make up any old xxxx you want to off the top of your head and expect others to deal with it as if its a fact.
The Darnell footage begins around 15 seconds after the headshot. Suck it up.
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Hi Alex, to be honest, I'm coming up with an even quicker time for the beginning of the Darnell footage that begins with this frame:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtSXrd6t/Darnellearliestframe.png) (https://postimages.org/)
It's something closer to 19 seconds as I believe Weigman is in position filming the Hesters during this frame.
Whatever the case, a big thanks to yourself for providing some excellent quality footage to work with.
As we can see on this opening frame of the Darnell Film, your claim, "The Thornton sign PERFECTLY COVERS where Zapruder and Sitzman are seconds after the head shot...." is just Not True. We can see the Zapruder Perch on this Darnell still frame and several feet (E) of the Zapruder Perch. But, we see absolutely No Sitzman and No Zapruder. And the Bell Film clearly shows Sitzman between the Perch and the Shelter. I appreciate your attempting to apply a timeline to the Darnell Film. That is a very difficult task to take on. Problem is, you are using the same Inaccurate JFK Assassination Image time lines and Excuses, (like the Thornton Sign baloney), that have been fed to the public for 62+ years to arrive at your Darnell Film timeline. And remember that the frames following this opening frame are Much Clearer. Don't restrict yourself to this opening frame. The Red Box you have placed around the Thornton Sign is far wider toward the Zapruder Perch than the sign extends in that (W) direction. The Darnell frames following the opening frame make this blatantly clear.
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As we can see on this opening frame of the Darnell Film, your claim, "The Thornton sign PERFECTLY COVERS where Zapruder and Sitzman are seconds after the head shot...." is just Not True. We can see the Zapruder Perch on this Darnell still frame and several feet (E) of the Zapruder Perch. But, we see absolutely No Sitzman and No Zapruder. And the Bell Film clearly shows Sitzman between the Perch and the Shelter. I appreciate your attempting to apply a timeline to the Darnell Film. That is a very difficult task to take on. Problem is, you are using the same Inaccurate JFK Assassination Image time lines and Excuses, (like the Thornton Sign baloney), that have been fed to the public for 62+ years to arrive at your Darnell Film timeline. And remember that the frames following this opening frame are Much Clearer. Don't restrict yourself to this opening frame. The Red Box you have placed around the Thornton Sign is far wider toward the Zapruder Perch than the sign extends in that (W) direction. The Darnell frames following the opening frame make this blatantly clear.
"your claim, "The Thornton sign PERFECTLY COVERS where Zapruder and Sitzman are seconds after the head shot...." is just Not True."
It is true.
What are you going to do about that?
Are you aware that you just make things up?
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"your claim, "The Thornton sign PERFECTLY COVERS where Zapruder and Sitzman are seconds after the head shot...." is just Not True."
It is true.
What are you going to do about that?
Are you aware that you just make things up?
All you have to do is look at the clearer Darnell Film frames after that 1st frame. The Bell Film clearly shows Sitzman moving between the Z Perch and the shelter opening behind that perch. Use the light pole as your landmark. The Bell Film posted by Alex clearly shows both Sitzman and Zapruder to be (W) of the light pole. And, view the Couch Film. It allegedly shows Wiegman running Down the Knoll. The Zapruder Perch, The Newman Family, and Wiegman standing next to them when filming them, are close to being in a direct N-S line. Wiegman had to move (W) across the top of the knoll in order to be in-line with the Newman Family when he ran down the Knoll toward them. This (W) movement by Wiegman would be AWAY from whatever Darnell visual obstruction you are claiming the Thornton sign provided. I don't think that you completely understand the layout of the knoll on 11/22/63. The Signs being Removed and the light post having been moved, is leading to misconceptions on your part. Which was the intention of this chicanery.
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All you have to do is look at the clearer Darnell Film frames after that 1st frame. The Bell Film clearly shows Sitzman moving between the Z Perch and the shelter opening behind that perch. Use the light pole as your landmark. The Bell Film posted by Alex clearly shows both Sitzman and Zapruder to be (W) of the light pole. And, view the Couch Film. It allegedly shows Wiegman running Down the Knoll. The Zapruder Perch, The Newman Family, and Wiegman standing next to them when filming them, are close to being in a direct N-S line. Wiegman had to move (W) across the top of the knoll in order to be in-line with the Newman Family when he ran down the Knoll toward them. This (W) movement by Wiegman would be AWAY from whatever Darnell visual obstruction you are claiming the Thornton sign provided. I don't think that you completely understand the layout of the knoll on 11/22/63. The Signs being Removed and the light post having been moved, is leading to misconceptions on your part. Which was the intention of this chicanery.
All you have to do is look at the clearer Darnell Film frames after that 1st frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYzxJVDn/Darnell-Thorntonclose.png)
Like this frame.
Like this frame that clearly shows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the Thornton sign is covering where Zapruder and Sitzman are?
Does it matter that I've shown you this frame?
Does it make any difference?
Use your eyes and a tiny portion of your brain.
Use intelligence.
Once again, for the third time, we have your claim that Weigman can be seen moving across the knoll. This is a lie. This is a deliberate falsehood. Why are you lying about this? Time and time again I have to show that you are lying about this but you carry on saying it.
Unfortunately, it appears you are a pathological liar and fantasist.
It really is a shame..
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All you have to do is look at the clearer Darnell Film frames after that 1st frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYzxJVDn/Darnell-Thorntonclose.png)
Like this frame.
Like this frame that clearly shows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the Thornton sign is covering where Zapruder and Sitzman are?
Does it matter that I've shown you this frame?
Does it make any difference?
Use your eyes and a tiny portion of your brain.
Use intelligence.
Once again, for the third time, we have your claim that Weigman can be seen moving across the knoll. This is a lie. This is a deliberate falsehood. Why are you lying about this? Time and time again I have to show that you are lying about this but you carry on saying it.
Unfortunately, it appears you are a pathological liar and fantasist.
It really is a shame..
You've done extremely good work concerning the Prayer Man and the activity around the TSBD immediately after the Kill Shot. And your theory of Shelley and Lovelady entering the TSBD via the front door is unique. All of this is to your credit. I made the mistake of thinking that your knowledge of the JFK Assassination was also this broad based. At this point, it's not even close to that level. You need to familiarize yourself with the 11/22/63 layout of the Knoll. Also, who was where, who went where, and what JFK Assassination Films and Photos document this. Start with the Couch Film. The Couch Film shows what is believed to be Wiegman running Down the (W) side of the Knoll. The Bell Film shows Wiegman on the upper (E) side of the Knoll. How much time do you think is between the Bell Film images of Wiegman on the (E) side of the Knoll vs the Couch Film showing Wiegman running down the (W) side of the Knoll? And remember that we see Officer Hargis standing alongside the Light Pole on the Bell Film. TICK/TOCK
Get to know the JFK Assassination Images, (both film and photo), and think it through. If you do this, you will Not have to rely on smokescreens like, "Zapruder, Sitzman, and Wiegman are ALL behind the sign". That is extremely weak in many ways. Especially if you Know the distance between Wiegman and Sitzman. If you substituted a Bill Board for the Thornton Sign, that bill board would Not stretch from Wiegman to Sitzman. That bill board would Not be wide enough to obscure both Sitzman and Wiegman. Again familiarize yourself with who was where, along with the 11/22/63 position of the Knoll landmarks. Especially: (1) the Light Post, (2) the Stemmons Sign, and, (3) the Thornton Sign.
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You've done extremely good work concerning the Prayer Man and the activity around the TSBD immediately after the Kill Shot. And your theory of Shelley and Lovelady entering the TSBD via the front door is unique. All of this is to your credit. I made the mistake of thinking that your knowledge of the JFK Assassination was also this broad based. At this point, it's not even close to that level. You need to familiarize yourself with the 11/22/63 layout of the Knoll. Also, who was where, who went where, and what JFK Assassination Films and Photos document this. Start with the Couch Film. The Couch Film shows what is believed to be Wiegman running Down the (W) side of the Knoll. The Bell Film shows Wiegman on the upper (E) side of the Knoll. How much time do you think is between the Bell Film images of Wiegman on the (E) side of the Knoll vs the Couch Film showing Wiegman running down the (W) side of the Knoll? And remember that we see Officer Hargis standing alongside the Light Pole on the Bell Film. TICK/TOCK
Get to know the JFK Assassination Images, (both film and photo), and think it through. If you do this, you will Not have to rely on smokescreens like, "Zapruder, Sitzman, and Wiegman are ALL behind the sign". That is extremely weak in many ways. Especially if you Know the distance between Wiegman and Sitzman. If you substituted a Bill Board for the Thornton Sign, that bill board would Not stretch from Wiegman to Sitzman. That bill board would Not be wide enough to obscure both Sitzman and Wiegman. Again familiarize yourself with who was where, along with the 11/22/63 position of the Knoll landmarks. Especially: (1) the Light Post, (2) the Stemmons Sign, and, (3) the Thornton Sign.
You make sh!t up and believe it's a fact.
You are an incredibly tiring person to deal with.
Why not post an actual fact you can back up. It's all your fantastical opinion. Your constant insistence that Weigman can be seen running across the knoll in the Bell footage DQ's you from this discussion.
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You make sh!t up and believe it's a fact.
You are an incredibly tiring person to deal with.
Why not post an actual fact you can back up. It's all your fantastical opinion. Your constant insistence that Weigman can be seen running across the knoll in the Bell footage DQ's you from this discussion.
You're frustrated because I refer to Facts that You are Not familiar with. Remember, I had to tell you which figure was Wiegman on the Bell Film.
Again, you're very good with the Prayer Man stuff. But when we move away from that, you get lost due to your limited knowledge. You need to bone up on the Assassination Films, the 11/22/63 layout of the Knoll, and the position of those on the knoll relative to each other and the Knoll landmarks. Such as the Z Perch, Stemmons Sign, Street Light Pole, & Thornton Sign.
And, from the point we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he had to move (W) across the knoll in order to arrive (W) of the street light pole where he filmed the Newman Family.
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I said "CLEARER" Darnell Film frames. You have only posted the 1st frame. There are "CLEARER" frames than the 1st frame. If for whatever reason you have Not been able to examine frames other than the 1st frame, just say so.
If you believe that Wiegman is Not moving across the Knoll on the Bell Film, just how long do you believe he stood stock still there on the Knoll? Remember that Wiegman standing still impacts the TICK/TOCK of his film footage afterward. Like his filming Officer Haygood coming down Elm Street. Changing the Haygood timeline further calls into question his 5 minute window.
You are literally unbelievable.
I have posted a frame (which is not the first frame of the Darnell footage) that clearly shows the Thornton sign.
Everyone can see it.
It's crystal clear.
I would like to see you post a clearer frame...but you can't...you're too old to understand how the technology works that would allow you to post a frame...that's why you never post any images.
If you believe that Wiegman is Not moving across the Knoll on the Bell Film,
You need to really focus here.
Don't just assume anything.
OK...here goes...
WEIGMAN DOES NOT MOVE ACROSS THE KNOLL.
He does not move one centimetre across the knoll in the Bell footage.
It does not happen.
It's not a question of belief.
It simply does not happen.
That is a fact.
WEIGMAN DOES NOT MOVE ONE CENTIMETRE ACROSS THE KNOLL IN THE BELL FILM.
That is literally the end of that discussion as far as I'm concerned. It does not happen.
That you keep insisting it does is so weird I don't know what to think.
You clearly have mental health issues.
Or...you are so old you have nom idea what's real and what's just in your mind.
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All you have to do is look at the clearer Darnell Film frames after that 1st frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYzxJVDn/Darnell-Thorntonclose.png)
Like this frame.
Like this frame that clearly shows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the Thornton sign is covering where Zapruder and Sitzman are?
Does it matter that I've shown you this frame?
Does it make any difference?
Use your eyes and a tiny portion of your brain.
Use intelligence.
Once again, for the third time, we have your claim that Weigman can be seen moving across the knoll. This is a lie. This is a deliberate falsehood. Why are you lying about this? Time and time again I have to show that you are lying about this but you carry on saying it.
Unfortunately, it appears you are a pathological liar and fantasist.
It really is a shame..
You do see the Z Perch on this still frame, correct? We are seeing several feet to the (R) of the pedestal. There is No Sitzman, and No Zapruder. And at this point, Wiegman is running DOWN the knoll.
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You're frustrated because I refer to Facts that You are Not familiar with. Remember, I had to tell you which figure was Wiegman on the Bell Film.
Again, you're very good with the Prayer Man stuff. But when we move away from that, you get lost due to your limited knowledge. You need to bone up on the Assassination Films, the 11/22/63 layout of the Knoll, and the position of those on the knoll relative to each other and the Knoll landmarks. Such as the Z Perch, Stemmons Sign, Street Light Pole, & Thornton Sign.
And, from the point we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he had to move (W) across the knoll in order to arrive (W) of the street light pole where he filmed the Newman Family.
Remember, I had to tell you which figure was Wiegman on the Bell Film.
This is a lie.
You have now moved into new territory.
I thought you were just a doddering old fool but this is a little more sinister.
You name the post where you showed me who Weigman was.
I'm not going to let this go Royell because you really have crossed a line.
List the number of the REPLY in this thread where you told me who Weigman was in the Bell footage.
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You are literally unbelievable.
I have posted a frame (which is not the first frame of the Darnell footage) that clearly shows the Thornton sign.
Everyone can see it.
It's crystal clear.
I would like to see you post a clearer frame...but you can't...you're too old to understand how the technology works that would allow you to post a frame...that's why you never post any images.
If you believe that Wiegman is Not moving across the Knoll on the Bell Film,
You need to really focus here.
Don't just assume anything.
OK...here goes...
WEIGMAN DOES NOT MOVE ACROSS THE KNOLL.
He does not move one centimetre across the knoll in the Bell footage.
It does not happen.
It's not a question of belief.
It simply does not happen.
That is a fact.
WEIGMAN DOES NOT MOVE ONE CENTIMETRE ACROSS THE KNOLL IN THE BELL FILM.
That is literally the end of that discussion as far as I'm concerned. It does not happen.
That you keep insisting it does is so weird I don't know what to think.
You clearly have mental health issues.
Or...you are so old you have nom idea what's real and what's just in your mind.
Again, if you want to have Wiegman standing stock still and filming nothing, you are expanding his timeline. Not to mention after filming the Hester's, why would he just stand stock still? And exactly who other than Groucho Marx "stands" like we see Wiegman doing on the Bell Film?
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You do see the Z Perch on this still frame, correct? We are seeing several feet to the (R) of the pedestal. There is No Sitzman, and No Zapruder. And at this point, Wiegman is running DOWN the knoll.
More lies.
This is not the part of Darnell where Weigman is running down the hill.
This is the opening of Darnell. The guy in the hat is stood outside the vehicle. The camera then pans across to the front steps of the TSBD building where we see Baker running towards the steps. After this the camera pans back towards this vehicle but the man in the hat has now re-entered the vehicle. It is at this point we see Weigman running down the knoll.
I don't understand why you have decided to start constantly lying. It's really weird.
Are you confused or are you lying?
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Again, if you want to have Wiegman standing stock still and filming nothing, you are expanding his timeline. Not to mention after filming the Hester's, why would he just stand stock still? And exactly who other than Groucho Marx "stands" like we see Wiegman doing on the Bell Film?
In the Bell footage we do not see Weigman running or moving anywhere.
You are a liar to keep insisting he does.
Post an image of Weigman running in the Bell film.
You won't be able to.
Your constant lying has really diminished my view of you.
And state the REPLY in this thread where you told me who the Weigman figure was.
You can't.
You're just a liar.
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Is it the guy I've circled in yellow?
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YpGnQHc/bellframecircle.png) (https://postimages.org/)
"The GUY......." ?
You did Not know "The Guy" was Wiegman. I then informed you that Wiegman is supposed to be the only photog wearing a hat on the knoll. I try to help you out, and you get embarrassed.
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That is not true.
This figure is not moving across the grass.
He appears for less than two seconds and does not move from that spot.
There is a suggestion this figure is starting to get up from a prone position, that's all.
I can't understand how you are seeing him moving across the grass when it doesn't happen.
Below are three stills from the Bell film showing this figure when we first see him, half way though and the last moment we see him. The duration of his appearance is less than 2 seconds. In that time he does not move from that spot.
On top of that, he is not stood up, he is lying across the steps and about to get up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tWr3fxc/Bellwide1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX25qsBY/Bellwide2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrL91By6/Bellwide3.png)
Do you know anybody that STANDS like this? And, we are seeing Wiegman physically on the grass.
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Do you know anybody that STANDS like this? And, we are seeing Wiegman physically on the grass.
You appear to have some kind of mental health issue.
Weigman is not standing in this picture as I've been telling you all along.
I identified this man as Weigman at the very beginning of then thread.
He is lying across the couple of steps leading to the concrete walkway, as I've been telling you all along.
I've been telling you from the very beginning of this thread that the guy is Weigman and that he is lying across the steps as he films the Hesters.
I've been telling you this all along.
You are a complete waste of time.
You can barely grasp reality.
Weigman stays in this position for the couple of seconds we see him there in the Bell footage.
It appears that he is about to get up but he doesn't move anywhere.
Your insistence that he is running or stood up is disturbing. You are seeing things that just aren't there.
It was me who told you this was Weigman.
Me who has been synchronising this moment to the Z-film.
You have done nothing only waste my time with your lies and BS:
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You appear to have some kind of mental health issue.
Weigman is not standing in this picture as I've been telling you all along.
I identified this man as Weigman at the very beginning of then thread.
He is lying across the couple of steps leading to the concrete walkway, as I've been telling you all along.
I've been telling you from the very beginning of this thread that the guy is Weigman and that he is lying across the steps as he films the Hesters.
I've been telling you this all along.
You are a complete waste of time.
You can barely grasp reality.
Weigman stays in this position for the couple of seconds we see him there in the Bell footage.
It appears that he is about to get up but he doesn't move anywhere.
Your insistence that he is running or stood up is disturbing. You are seeing things that just aren't there.
It was me who told you this was Weigman.
Me who has been synchronising this moment to the Z-film.
You have done nothing only waste my time with your lies and BS:
You are revealing your lack of knowledge with respect to the knoll. You have no idea how many steps there are. Just look at the Bench on the (R) and count the steps. Also, look at the bottom step and then look at the legs of Wiegman. He is on the Knoll Grass.
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You are revealing your lack of knowledge with respect to the knoll. You have no idea how many steps there are. Just look at the Bench on the (R) and count the steps. Also, look at the bottom step and then look at the legs of Wiegman. He is on the Knoll Grass.
He is sprawled across the steps with just his feet extending beyond onto the grass is the way it looks to me. What’s the problem with thaf?
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He is sprawled across the steps with just his feet extending beyond onto the grass is the way it looks to me. What’s the problem with thaf?
The man is Weigman and, as you say, he is sprawled across the steps from where he filmed the Hesters. He is just about to get up and race down the knoll to film the Newman's.
The problem is Royell.
I am trying to synchronise various films and photographs to get as good an estimate as possible for how long after the headshot the Darnell footage begins.
Royell has constantly tried to derail these attempts and one of his tactics is to make up nonsense off the top of his head that I then have to prove wrong.
Royell believes that the figure in question is not sprawling across the steps, as is obvious to anyone with half a brain, but that he is running across the knoll towards Zapruder. It is utterly bizarre but he just keeps on insisting this is the case even though the man is not moving and is clearly sprawled across the steps.
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He is sprawled across the steps with just his feet extending beyond onto the grass is the way it looks to me. What’s the problem with thaf?
This is yet another JFK Assassination Urban Legend that has simply been repeated until being accepted as being a fact. Wiegman has NEVER said he laid down/across the steps. No eyewitness has EVER said that they saw Wiegman laying down/across the steps. And, the Bell Film shows this figure to be FACING in the direction of the (S) portion of the Zapruder Perch. That figure is Not facing Mrs Hester on the ground.
Gary Mack filmed a Knoll walk-through with Wiegman for, " Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" (2003). So, we have Gary Mack with Wiegman walking all over the Knoll, almost standing in the shadow of the Sixth Floor Museum, yet Mack did NOT bother to show Wiegman the Bell Film to detail exactly what we are seeing on the Bell film. At a minimum, Mack should have shown Wiegman the Bell Film in the hope of jogging his memory. There is a reason why the "curator" of the Sixth Floor Museum dropped the ball here.
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The man is Weigman and, as you say, he is sprawled across the steps from where he filmed the Hesters. He is just about to get up and race down the knoll to film the Newman's.
The problem is Royell.
I am trying to synchronise various films and photographs to get as good an estimate as possible for how long after the headshot the Darnell footage begins.
Royell has constantly tried to derail these attempts and one of his tactics is to make up nonsense off the top of his head that I then have to prove wrong.
Royell believes that the figure in question is not sprawling across the steps, as is obvious to anyone with half a brain, but that he is running across the knoll towards Zapruder. It is utterly bizarre but he just keeps on insisting this is the case even though the man is not moving and is clearly sprawled across the steps.
You simply do Not understand the layout of the Knoll, and Wiegman being filmed by Couch. At what point do you believe that Wiegman moves (W)? Wiegman has to move (W) from his position on the Bell Film, in order to then run Down the knoll and arrive near the Newman family. Wiegman is filmed running DOWN the knoll on the Couch Film.
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Where can i get a good quality Couch film? my copy is poor and i can't discern ANYTHING Royell mentioned there.
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You simply do Not understand the layout of the Knoll, and Wiegman being filmed by Couch. At what point do you believe that Wiegman moves (W)? Wiegman has to move (W) from his position on the Bell Film, in order to then run Down the knoll and arrive near the Newman family. Wiegman is filmed running DOWN the knoll on the Couch Film.
I don't understand the layout of the knoll?
You really do say some stupid things Royell.
And Weigman being filmed by Couch?
I have to assume you mean the moment that Weigman is seen in the distance running down the knoll towards the Newmans. I have already posted extensively about this is this thread.
The Weigman film shows him racing from his car to where the Hesters are. He sprawls across the steps and we see the top of the concrete walkway as he films them. When he is finished he gets up and races down to where the Newmans are. He is running around recording as much as he can.
In the Bell film we see Weigman sprawled across the steps. He has finished filming and is in the process of getting up when the film cuts. Immediately after this he races down the knoll towards the Newmans which is caught by both Couch and Darnell.
I have already demonstrated all of this in previous posts.
Unfortunately, having to deal with your lunacy has pretty much derailed the thread.
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Where can i get a good quality Couch film? my copy is poor and i can't discern ANYTHING Royell mentioned there.
Search "YOU TUBE" for: "Couch film in Breaking The News and Unsolved History" by - Denis Morissette (:50)
This is a very good Couch Film copy. It includes the footage that Couch shot when he made his 2nd run down Elm St only minutes after his 1st run.
It includes good footage of Officer Haygood straightening his motorcycle up at the Elm St curb and the 2 bicycles that we glimpse on the Elm St sidewalk between the Ft Worth sign and the Triple Underpass.
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I don't understand the layout of the knoll?
You really do say some stupid things Royell.
And Weigman being filmed by Couch?
I have to assume you mean the moment that Weigman is seen in the distance running down the knoll towards the Newmans. I have already posted extensively about this is this thread.
The Weigman film shows him racing from his car to where the Hesters are. He sprawls across the steps and we see the top of the concrete walkway as he films them. When he is finished he gets up and races down to where the Newmans are. He is running around recording as much as he can.
In the Bell film we see Weigman sprawled across the steps. He has finished filming and is in the process of getting up when the film cuts. Immediately after this he races down the knoll towards the Newmans which is caught by both Couch and Darnell.
I have already demonstrated all of this in previous posts.
Unfortunately, having to deal with your lunacy has pretty much derailed the thread.
Look at the layout of the knoll. There is NO WAY that Wiegman can just get up and IMMEDIATELY run down the knoll and arrive alongside the Newman Family. Where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, and the location of the Newman family, ARE NOT IN LINE. The Newman Family are close to directly below the Zapruder Perch.
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(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
Wiegman lying on the steps that lead to the pergola.
(https://i.ibb.co/Lwr6RkD/BELL-FRAME-WIEGMAN.png)
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(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
Wiegman lying on the steps that lead to the pergola.
STEVE - Thanks for posting that Bell still frame. To the (R) there is a Bench on the top of the steps. Below the bench is the Knoll Grass. Wiegman's legs/feet are on the same level as the Knoll Grass below that Bench. And there are Bell Film frames which include: (1) The Bench, (2) The Knoll Grass below the Bench, and (3) Wiegman MOVING (W) on the Knoll Grass. Wiegman never said/wrote that he was "lying on the steps" while filming the Hester's, and no eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman lying on the steps. Plus, the Image Evidence does Not show him lying on the steps, or lying down anywhere at any point in time. Why would a professional photog do this, when he could film the Hester's while standing upright on the grass and/or go up the steps and film the Hester's from up there? This lying down stuff is disproven by the image evidence and makes absolutely no sense. Which is not uncommon for yet another JFK Assassination Urban Legend.
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STEVE - Thanks for posting that Bell still frame. To the (R) there is a Bench on the top of the steps. Below the bench is the Knoll Grass. Wiegman's legs/feet are on the same level as the Knoll Grass below that Bench. And there are Bell Film frames which include: (1) The Bench, (2) The Knoll Grass below the Bench, and (3) Wiegman MOVING (W) on the Knoll Grass. Wiegman never said/wrote that he was "lying on the steps" while filming the Hester's, and no eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman lying on the steps. Plus, the Image Evidence does Not show him lying on the steps, or lying down anywhere at any point in time. Why would a professional photog do this, when he could film the Hester's while standing upright on the grass and/or go up the steps and film the Hester's from up there? This lying down stuff is disproven by the image evidence and makes absolutely no sense. Which is not uncommon for yet another JFK Assassination Urban Legend.
So you think he's standing upright? Please explain?
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So you think he's standing upright? Please explain?
No, I do Not believe he is standing. I believe we are seeing him from his (L) side as he is running/stumbling toward the (W). What we are seeing is like watching a football player running/stumbling across the TV screen from the R-To-The-L. Instead of carrying a football, Wiegman is grasping his camera. He is moving (W), but at the same time he is looking Back over his (L) shoulder. Not looking where he was going probably is responsible for the stumbling. As the assassination images become clearer, JFK Assassination Urban Legends such as this one are being dismissed
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No, I do Not believe he is standing. I believe we are seeing him from his (L) side as he is running/stumbling toward the (W). What we are seeing is like watching a football player running/stumbling across the TV screen from the R-To-The-L. Instead of carrying a football, Wiegman is grasping his camera. He is moving (W), but at the same time he is looking Back over his (L) shoulder. Not looking where he was going probably is responsible for the stumbling. As the assassination images become clearer, JFK Assassination Urban Legends such as this one are being dismissed
It doesn't matter what you believe.
As I've already proven, for the brief moment we see Weigman in the Bell footage he stays in exactly the same position. He does not move a single inch in any direction. Your constant insistence that he is running/stumbling along in the Bell film is utterly bizarre. As myself, Zeon and Steve have stated, Weigman is sprawled/lying across these steps and it is from this sprawled position that he filmed the Hesters. He is not running or stumbling in any way. He does not move an inch in any direction. You can keep on insisting on this falsehood but it reflects badly on you...to be honest, it's slightly embarrassing.
The close-up Steve posted could not be any clearer:
(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
There is the suggestion he has turned around and is sitting up...nothing more than that. We know from Weigman's actual footage that he has already finished filming the Hesters by the time we see him in the Bell film. We next see him racing down the knoll in Couch and Darnell to where the Newman's are. The image below is a crop taken from the Couch Film. Weigman is circled red. The blue line shows his movement from position A (where he was filming the hesters while sprawling/lying on the steps) to position B (where he filmed the Newmans).
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzTCCLCk/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg)
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It doesn't matter what you believe.
As I've already proven, for the brief moment we see Weigman in the Bell footage he stays in exactly the same position. He does not move a single inch in any direction. Your constant insistence that he is running/stumbling along in the Bell film is utterly bizarre. As myself, Zeon and Steve have stated, Weigman is sprawled/lying across these steps and it is from this sprawled position that he filmed the Hesters. He is not running or stumbling in any way. He does not move an inch in any direction. You can keep on insisting on this falsehood but it reflects badly on you...to be honest, it's slightly embarrassing.
The close-up Steve posted could not be any clearer:
(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
There is the suggestion he has turned around and is sitting up...nothing more than that. We know from Weigman's actual footage that he has already finished filming the Hesters by the time we see him in the Bell film. We next see him racing down the knoll in Couch and Darnell to where the Newman's are. The image below is a crop taken from the Couch Film. Weigman is circled red. The blue line shows his movement from position A (where he was filming the hesters while sprawling/lying on the steps) to position B (where he filmed the Newmans).
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzTCCLCk/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg)
Hi Dan,
I was just watching the SFM copy of Bell that I have, and I tried to post a GIF of just the frames showing Wiegman, but it's too small (just under a second in length) and the GIF program I have won't even accept it since it's so small. However, I can watch it repeat play on my VLC player, and Wiegman and Mrs. Hester are both just starting to get up at the same, exact time before the clip ends. I also noticed that the first frame that shows Wiegman, he still has the camera at his eye before he moves it.
What we need is John Mytton here to work his magic and create a GIF of Wiegman in the Bell film.
I noticed in the Couch film that Wiegman's position is just a few feet from the steps as soon as Couch pans to the left, showing Wiegman running, and from the looks of it, Mr. Hester has rejoined his wife, and is helping her with her shopping bags. A large white bag, and a smaller brown(?) can be seen moving and the two dark dressed figures with the bags.
As fast as Wiegman ran from the steps to the base of the knoll, it took him no time to reach where the Newman's are located, as the Couch film reveals.
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No, I do Not believe he is standing. I believe we are seeing him from his (L) side as he is running/stumbling toward the (W). What we are seeing is like watching a football player running/stumbling across the TV screen from the R-To-The-L. Instead of carrying a football, Wiegman is grasping his camera. He is moving (W), but at the same time he is looking Back over his (L) shoulder. Not looking where he was going probably is responsible for the stumbling. As the assassination images become clearer, JFK Assassination Urban Legends such as this one are being dismissed
Hi Royell,
I noticed that in the segment showing Wiegman lying of the steps is enough to show that he is stationary on the steps. He still had his camera to his eye in the very first Bell film frame he appears in, then brings it away from his eye/face in the next frame. HE can clearly be seen beginning to rise before Bell stopped filming that sequence, and Mrs. Hester also rises up at the same time as Wiegman shows signs of getting up.
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It doesn't matter what you believe.
As I've already proven, for the brief moment we see Weigman in the Bell footage he stays in exactly the same position. He does not move a single inch in any direction. Your constant insistence that he is running/stumbling along in the Bell film is utterly bizarre. As myself, Zeon and Steve have stated, Weigman is sprawled/lying across these steps and it is from this sprawled position that he filmed the Hesters. He is not running or stumbling in any way. He does not move an inch in any direction. You can keep on insisting on this falsehood but it reflects badly on you...to be honest, it's slightly embarrassing.
The close-up Steve posted could not be any clearer:
(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
There is the suggestion he has turned around and is sitting up...nothing more than that. We know from Weigman's actual footage that he has already finished filming the Hesters by the time we see him in the Bell film. We next see him racing down the knoll in Couch and Darnell to where the Newman's are. The image below is a crop taken from the Couch Film. Weigman is circled red. The blue line shows his movement from position A (where he was filming the hesters while sprawling/lying on the steps) to position B (where he filmed the Newmans).
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzTCCLCk/Couch-Unger-Weigman.jpg)
Forget what you have been repeatedly Told/Spoon Fed over the last 62+ years. Draw on your own real life experience. Nobody, repeat Nobody, gets up from the ground and appears like we see Wiegman on the Bell Film. A living Human Body can FALL to the ground like a Cardboard Cutout. A living Human Body can Not RISE from the ground like a Cardboard Cutout. Did you look at the Morissette Couch Film I referenced earlier? The Couch still frame you posted is substandard to the Morissette Copy.
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Is it the guy I've circled in yellow?
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YpGnQHc/bellframecircle.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Wiegman circled in yellow, is Not getting up from the steps, and he is Not getting up from the ground. Why? Because he is Not a cardboard cutout. A living human body is incapable of rising from the ground as we see on the Bell Film. Just look at the straight line from the top of his hat to his lower torso. What we are seeing is Wiegman running/stumbling/falling toward the (W). Look at the grass below the Bench on the (R). Wiegman is running/stumbling/falling at this same grass level.
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(https://i.ibb.co/F49wcDzL/WIEGMAN-BLOW-UP.png)
Wiegman lying on the steps that lead to the pergola.
(https://i.ibb.co/Lwr6RkD/BELL-FRAME-WIEGMAN.png)
Thumb1:
"Wiegman" is definitely lying on the steps, there's a clear shadow under him and in the following GIF, he has not moved forward in relation to the sign.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0b1kngX/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola.gif)
And at the end he's in the process of getting up!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb1nfjhy/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola-getting-up.gif)
JohnM
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Thumb1:
"Wiegman" is definitely lying on the steps, there's a clear shadow under him and in the following GIF, he has not moved forward in relation to the sign.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0b1kngX/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola.gif)
And at the end he's in the process of getting up!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb1nfjhy/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola-getting-up.gif)
JohnM
Hi John,
Many, many thanks for posting your superb work on the Bell film, re: Wiegman!
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Thumb1:
"Wiegman" is definitely lying on the steps, there's a clear shadow under him and in the following GIF, he has not moved forward in relation to the sign.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0b1kngX/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola.gif)
And at the end he's in the process of getting up!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb1nfjhy/Wiegman-lying-on-the-steps-that-lead-to-the-pergola-getting-up.gif)
JohnM
JOHN - Thanks for the above Bell Film posting. It clearly shows Wiegman: (1) moving to the (W), (2) stumbling/falling, (3) bouncing off of a knee, (4) arms extended directly in front of him as he instinctively braces for a possible full fall forward, and, (5) has his feet on the Knoll grass.
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Hi John,
Many, many thanks for posting your superb work on the Bell film, re: Wiegman!
Really excellent work, as usual, John Thumb1:
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JOHN - Thanks for the above Bell Film posting. It clearly shows Wiegman: (1) moving to the (W), (2) stumbling/falling, (3) bouncing off of a knee, (4) arms extended directly in front of him as he instinctively braces for a possible full fall, And, (5) has his feet on the Knoll grass.
So just slip of the feet and nothing to do with any loud gunshot just heard yes?
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So just slip of the feet and nothing to do with any loud gunshot just heard yes?
I don't know what caused the Wiegman stumble/fall. Wiegman is looking back over his (L) shoulder as he ran forward, so he could have stepped into a chuckhole in the grass, or a rock on the ground, etc. When Wiegman did his piece with Gary Mack on, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" (2003), he specifically mentioned feeling the "compression" of a bullet on his face. I thought he was referring to a point in time immediately before he ran across/down the Knoll. But, we are talking about only seconds between his feeling the "compression" on his face and this Bell Film snippet showing him stumbling/falling. Wiegman detailing this "compression" on his face was recorded 40 yrs after the JFK assassination. This is the only time that I am aware of that Wiegman mentioned this bullet "compression".
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JOHN - Thanks for the above Bell Film posting. It clearly shows Wiegman: (1) moving to the (W), (2) stumbling/falling, (3) bouncing off of a knee, (4) arms extended directly in front of him as he instinctively braces for a possible full fall forward, and, (5) has his feet on the Knoll grass.
Your photo analysis skills are laughable, Royell. They really are.
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Your photo analysis skills are laughable, Royell. They really are.
Yeah, it's tough for some to admit they bought into a JFK Urban Legend. But, as the definition of the JFK assassination images improves, this is going to become more common. So you need to get used to it. This explains why NBC has Never released the Original Darnell and Wiegman Films. And, why we have been waiting for the Sixth Floor Museum to release the last half of the early generation copy of the Darnell Film. Should the Sixth Floor Museum release that last half of the Darnell Film, we are gonna clearly see a Bogus DPD Motorcycle Cop strolling across the train yard and toward the TSBD.
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Yeah, it's tough for some to admit they bought into a JFK Urban Legend. But, as the definition of the JFK assassination images improves, this is going to become more common. So you need to get used to it. This explains why NBC has Never released the Original Darnell and Wiegman Films. And, why we have been waiting for the Sixth Floor Museum to release the last half of the early generation copy of the Darnell Film. Should the Sixth Floor Museum release that last half of the Darnell Film, we are gonna clearly see a Bogus DPD Motorcycle Cop strolling across the train yard and toward the TSBD.
"Yeah, it's tough for some to admit they bought into a JFK Urban Legend" ?
Royell, I'm sorry, but this whole idea regarding Wiegman is nuts. No one-that I know of-has ever questioned the position of Dave Wiegman as he filmed the Hester couple reacting to the shooting that happened near them, and obviously nor do they care.
Some of the stuff you're saying in your posts about Wiegman's actions in a film clip lasting less than a second is nothing short of bizarre.
You say Wiegman is "running and ..." and I see nothing more than a man sprawled on three concrete stair steps connected to a terrace filming with his news camera. You say it's unusual for him to be in that position, and "Who does that?" I'll tell you who. News people do outrageous things just to get something on film, or to get a "scoop", everyday. What's so unusual about getting down on concrete stairs to be on the same level with a couple who are reacting to the assassination? It had rained that morning. The grass and ground were wet, water spots can clearly be seen on the concrete stairs inches from him. Perhaps Wiegman didn't want to ruin his suit, or get wet. It's really insulting that you stoop to the level of saying that people "Bought into an urban legend". No one has bought into anything, and why would anyone care? Clearly, Wiegman was only interested in getting the Hester couples' reaction to what they just witnessed, You insist that Wiegman tripped or ran into a chuck hole. Based on what?
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"Yeah, it's tough for some to admit they bought into a JFK Urban Legend" ?
Royell, I'm sorry, but this whole idea regarding Wiegman is nuts. No one-that I know of-has ever questioned the position of Dave Wiegman as he filmed the Hester couple reacting to the shooting that happened near them, and obviously nor do they care.
Some of the stuff you're saying in your posts about Wiegman's actions in a film clip lasting less than a second is nothing short of bizarre.
You say Wiegman is "running and ..." and I see nothing more than a man sprawled on three concrete stair steps connected to a terrace filming with his news camera. You say it's unusual for him to be in that position, and "Who does that?" I'll tell you who. News people do outrageous things just to get something on film, or to get a "scoop", everyday. What's so unusual about getting down on concrete stairs to be on the same level with a couple who are reacting to the assassination? It had rained that morning. The grass and ground were wet, water spots can clearly be seen on the concrete stairs inches from him. Perhaps Wiegman didn't want to ruin his suit, or get wet. It's really insulting that you stoop to the level of saying that people "Bought into an urban legend". No one has bought into anything, and why would anyone care? Clearly, Wiegman was only interested in getting the Hester couples' reaction to what they just witnessed, You insist that Wiegman tripped or ran into a chuck hole. Based on what?
You speculate that Wiegman might not "want to ruin his suit", so he was, "sprawled on 3 concrete stair steps". If as you claim, "the grass and ground were wet....", then the steps would also be wet. So that possible "suit" reason for being "sprawled on 3 concrete stair steps" is DOA. And for all we know, if Wiegman was standing on the top of the Knoll Grass near the bottom step, his camera at face height might have been close to level with the Hester Family sprawled across the ground in front of the Pergola. The Hester's were on higher ground than the Knoll grass. That I am aware of, Wiegman never said he was ever "sprawled" across the steps. That I am aware of, No Eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman "sprawled" across the steps. Nobody gets up from a "sprawled" position, (chest down), like we see Wiegman doing. And Wiegman's arms are not helping to push him up from a "sprawled" position. His arms are chest high in front of him. 1 arm is grasping the camera, the other arm is bracing for a possible fall forward (W). The bracing is a reflex action anytime a person seriously stumbles forward, falls forward.
And somehow, Wiegman has to arrive on the (W) side of the Street Light Pole/near the Newman Family. Where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he is nowhere close to being on the (W) side of the street light pole. Based on what we see him doing on the Couch Film, Wiegman ran across the top of the Knoll Grass until he was (W) of the street light pole. He then ran down the knoll toward the Newman Family. What we see Wiegman doing on the Bell Film, is what we see offensive football players doing all the time. "Rumbling and Stumbling".
Sure this is ALL New. This is because people have cavalierly accepted and repeated this Wiegman scenario of his being "sprawled on 3 concrete steps" for 62+ years. As the Bell Film images have become clearer, the Wiegman being "sprawled" scenario is revealed to be just another JFK Urban Legend.
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You speculate that Wiegman might not "want to ruin his suit", so he was, "sprawled on 3 concrete stair steps". If as you claim, "the grass and ground were wet....", then the steps would also be wet. So that possible "suit" reason for being "sprawled on 3 concrete stair steps" is DOA. And for all we know, if Wiegman was standing on the top of the Knoll Grass near the bottom step, his camera at face height might have been close to level with the Hester Family sprawled across the ground in front of the Pergola. The Hester's were on higher ground than the Knoll grass. That I am aware of, Wiegman never said he was ever "sprawled" across the steps. That I am aware of, No Eyewitness has ever said they saw Wiegman "sprawled" across the steps. Nobody gets up from a "sprawled" position, (chest down), like we see Wiegman doing. And Wiegman's arms are not helping to push him up from a "sprawled" position. His arms are chest high in front of him. 1 arm is grasping the camera, the other arm is bracing for a possible fall forward (W). The bracing is a reflex action anytime a person seriously stumbles forward, falls forward.
And somehow, Wiegman has to arrive on the (W) side of the Street Light Pole/near the Newman Family. Where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he is nowhere close to being on the (W) side of the street light pole. Based on what we see him doing on the Couch Film, Wiegman ran across the top of the Knoll Grass until he was (W) of the street light pole. He then ran down the knoll toward the Newman Family. What we see Wiegman doing on the Bell Film, is what we see offensive football players doing all the time. "Rumbling and Stumbling".
Sure this is ALL New. This is because people have cavalierly accepted and repeated this Wiegman scenario of his being "sprawled on 3 concrete steps" for 62+ years. As the Bell Film images have become clearer, the Wiegman being "sprawled" scenario is revealed to be just another JFK Urban Legend.
So long, Royell. I will not carry on with this any longer.
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Here's a stabilized GIF of Wiegman stumbling, bumbling and doing cartwheels across the knoll!!
But seriously, we can see a stationary Wiegman laying across the steps who then starts to get up and for reference we can see an actual moving man as the cameraman in the lower right enters the frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydqT7gBc/Bell-Wiegman-on-step-getting-up.gif)
JohnM
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Here's a stabilized GIF of Wiegman stumbling, bumbling and doing cartwheels across the knoll!!
But seriously, we can see a stationary Wiegman laying across the steps who then starts to get up and for reference we can see an actual moving man as the cameraman in the lower right enters the frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydqT7gBc/Bell-Wiegman-on-step-getting-up.gif)
JohnM
Just fantastic work John.
It is possible to discern Weigman hurriedly reaching into his pocket with his left hand as he turns from the Hesters and begins to get up.
Using the method laid out earlier in this thread it is possible to put a timestamp on Weigman in the Bell film beginning to get up - 19 seconds.
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What does any of this have to do with the question of who shot JFK.
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Zapruder and Sitzman in early Couch stabilized GIF
I made a stabilized gif from the Couch film wherein Beatrice Hester stands, Dave Wiegman stands from the cement steps and makes a run towards the Newman family, taking about 4 seconds(~90 frames). The full animation is over 14MB so I can only post a heavily cropped version. As I viewed my work I spotted what must be Zapruder after he turned back to Sitzman from his easterly walk. They stand outside the shelter for a few seconds and then begin to enter the shelter in the last few frames of the film sequence. Their upper bodies are masked by low foliage of the Cedar Elm tree near the Thornton sign. The stabilization makes their presence known.
(https://i.ibb.co/ccy0rhBY/Wiegman-Couch076-annotated-frame.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wFsQJD1H/Couch2-crop-high-contrast-pingpjong-20261001.gif)
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Is it the guy I've circled in yellow?
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YpGnQHc/bellframecircle.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This is exactly why it is vital to view the Entire Bell Film/Wiegman Snippet. No cropping, no chopping, no giffing. On the (R) we see a Bench. Directly Below that Bench are Steps. Directly Below those Steps is the Knoll Grass. Wiegman's legs/feet are on the very same level as that Knoll Grass. He is on that Knoll Grass. He is Not sprawled across the Steps. Wiegman is Facing (W) toward the bottom of the Zapruder Perch. Wiegman is running/stumbling (W) across the Top portion of the Knoll Grass.
At some point, Wiegman has to arrive (W) of the street light pole to then be standing next to the Newman Family. From where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, what route does he take to arrive at the bottom of the Knoll and stand next to the Newman Family? Is the claim being made here that from the point we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he then ran diagonally across the Knoll in order to arrive at the bottom of the Knoll and stand next to the Newman Family? That route would be contrary to the route we see him taking on the Couch Film. Wiegman had to of run (W) across the upper portion of the Knoll grass, in the direction of the bottom of the Zapruder Perch, and then turned left and ran (S) down the Knoll. This is what we see Wiegman doing on the Couch Film. Running (S) DOWN the knoll, Wiegman was then (W) of the street light pole and standing alongside the Newman Family at the bottom of the Knoll.
The old blurry Bell Film images were responsible for this old wives tale of Wiegman being sprawled across the steps as he filmed the Hester's. Technology has improved the Bell Film definition to the point that it is now clear that Wiegman was not sprawled across the steps. To the contrary, the Bell Film now clearly shows Wiegman to Not being physically on the steps in any manner.
Some of you are shocked to discover that what you cavalierly accepted as being a fact, is nothing but a 62+ yr old JFK Assassination Urban Legend. You need to accept that Technology is solving this case as it disproves 1 JFK Assassination Urban Legend at a time.