JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: John Corbett on July 17, 2026, 09:23:37 PM
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I don't care about any of these items from just the first page of the forum topics:
Bart Kemp
Billy Lovelady
Pauline Sanders
Jeff Morley
CIA wallets
Babushka Lady
Why don't I care? Because none of the above had anything to do with the JFKA. They are all irrelevant distractions. I'm sure if I went back far enough, I could find dozens of other topics I don't care about. It amuses me how much people obsess about these topics. The phrase "barking up the wrong tree" comes to mind.
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I don't care about any of these items from just the first page of the forum topics:
Bart Kemp
Billy Lovelady
Pauline Sanders
Jeff Morley
CIA wallets
Babushka Lady
Why don't I care? Because none of the above had anything to do with the JFKA. They are all irrelevant distractions. I'm sure if I went back far enough, I could find dozens of other topics I don't care about. It amuses me how much people obsess about these topics. The phrase "barking up the wrong tree" comes to mind.
Is your ego so big that you think anybody cares about anything you don't care about or even anything you have to say?
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Sorting out Lovelady helps solve the conspiracy...
He's a main player...
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Sorting out Lovelady helps solve the conspiracy...
He's a main player...
That's the problem. You people assume there was a conspiracy and unable to find evidence of such, you go on all these snipe hunts in hopes of finding such evidence. If you would just take a straight forward look at the evidence and follow it to a logical conclusion, you would realize the reason there is no evidence of a conspiracy is because there was no conspiracy. But that's not the answer you people want so you go off on all these tangents that lead nowhere. 62 years of futility hasn't dissuaded you folks from your ill-conceived beliefs.
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That's the problem. You people assume there was a conspiracy and unable to find evidence of such, you go on all these snipe hunts in hopes of finding such evidence. If you would just take a straight forward look at the evidence and follow it to a logical conclusion, you would realize the reason there is no evidence of a conspiracy is because there was no conspiracy. But that's not the answer you people want so you go off on all these tangents that lead nowhere. 62 years of futility hasn't dissuaded you folks from your ill-conceived beliefs.
:D
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Such thinking causes us to miss some of the best, most subtle evidence...
I am the researcher who discovered that Lovelady told Jarman that he saw Oswald exit the front door and leave...Lovelady did that around the HSCA because he was conscious of the fact his partner Shelley was CIA...Lovelady did that in order to cover for CIA Shelley because Shelley had assisted Oswald around the police cordon and being stopped by a cop at the front door and told to step aside...This event was the most dangerous and threatening thing to the conspiracy because it showed a conscious setting up of Oswald in the Depository and knowledge by the actors of the conspiracy...It showed motives and who everyone was in the Depository...Shelley escorting Oswald out the Loading Dock and not telling about it are two of the main things that orient the conspiracy in the Depository...They were the main focus of the cover-up...
If you have a good sense of things and detective skills like myself you'll notice that HSCA did not pounce on Jarman's admission and take Lovelady to task on why he never told this important witnessing at any of the previous inquiries by the authorities...Why he didn't tell this to the FBI or Warren Commission...The reason why HSCA had an unaccountable lack of follow-through on Jarman's admission is because they knew it was a lie and knew Lovelady was covering for Shelley and his guiding of Oswald around the police restriction at the front door...Once again, this one little claim threatened to expose the whole conspiracy and threatened to cause an inquiry in to the happenings in the Lobby that the government did not want to discuss or have any skilled investigators like myself make them answer any questions over...This non-pursuit allowed the false premise that Oswald exited through the front door have its intended effect while avoiding the necessary follow-through it required versus the rest of the evidence...To make such a crude protest about Lovelady is to miss some of the most explosive important evidence that cracks the case...It is like passing up world class exotic art pieces in order to shop the WalMart shelf...
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That's the problem. You people assume there was a conspiracy and unable to find evidence of such, you go on all these snipe hunts in hopes of finding such evidence. If you would just take a straight forward look at the evidence and follow it to a logical conclusion, you would realize the reason there is no evidence of a conspiracy is because there was no conspiracy. But that's not the answer you people want so you go off on all these tangents that lead nowhere. 62 years of futility hasn't dissuaded you folks from your ill-conceived beliefs.
Yes, it is a small world. How come the CIA named it's building after a guy who worked for them for only one calender year?
https://www.deseret.com/1989/6/9/18810648/retired-spooks-find-their-nooks-at-kennebunk/
RETIRED `SPOOKS' FIND THEIR NOOKS AT KENNEBUNK - Deseret News
Maine winters notwithstanding, spies who come in from the cold seem drawn to the Kennebunk. This coastal town and neighboring Kennebunkport are home to a cluster of former intelligence operatives, analysts and administrators who have chosen the area as a good place to retire or to build a second
Dec. 6 specially decorated Bush '41 Train engine, was Billy Joe Lord on board?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1439.0.html
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2284.msg68148.html#msg68148
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Yes, it is a small world. How come the CIA named it's building after a guy who worked for them for only one calender year?
A perfect example of a CT focusing on trivialities instead of the evidence that tells us who shot JFK.
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A perfect example of a CT focusing on trivialities instead of the evidence that tells us who shot JFK.
A perfect example of a CT focusing on trivialities instead of the evidence that tells us who shot JFK.
....Posts the opinion of a "reader" who does not even read the rest of the words posted in the two links I included in my post.
Three amigos from Rochester, Devine, Dryer, Macomber.
Macomber just happened to be the best man in Bush's sister's 1946 wedding to Alexander Ellis, and in Tom Devine's early 1970s wedding on Jupiter Island,
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3768659684_4b5737b120_o.jpg)
Devine and Dryer hold separate meetings with DeMohrenschildt and a Haitian banker on same day in late April, 1963,
just three weeks after DeMohrenschildt wrote that he had asked, "Lee, how did you miss?"
Bemis is described by Billy Joe Lord as the person Henry Hurt told Lord had advised Hurt on how to put pressure on Lord to cooperate with the Eostein/Hurt Reader's
Digest "inquiry". Bemis, "owner of a string of hotels," matches the description of Bush's longest friend, Gerry Bemiss, who just happens to be Hurt's wife's first cousin.
Yes, it was thoughtful of them, wasn't it? :
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=39eb56e0a03d1f43&sxsrf=APpeQnuY3DKlr7b_1Pib2y4PmzLFkSVxzQ:1784332265875&q=had+a+meeting+regarding+my+political+future%E2%80%94very+thoughtful+of+them.&udm=36&source=lnms&fbs=ABfTbFVyMZGZf1hfvX9uKjN_-G8cxpBkeIeqYwoCbfNVc4vKE0nzDtz46ks8VcXZ-FAj7roWouGYoa-8wJKyeh_fRvLGc5HvMtnq86ZTdu-hT_jvMWj88Ay957L9PwGeD-onUveIkecPSkl1ew4jViPtQV_7C42DWS_wvyN3PglWF-8A5h4Nf0l0U_JnxfnM37gvhQUhNcI8offn6I8qCIn-fQQnB6E1Ag&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiih_nW89qVAxWm5ckDHS7pA8sQ0pQJegQIVBAB&biw=1600&bih=732&dpr=1
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global
Jeffrey A. Engel · 2011
FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 311
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51197490078_69a2223cac_b.jpg)
Billy Joe Lord, excerpt from his 1977 letter to President Carter,
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145503&relPageId=135&search=beamis_and%20hotels
2. FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Additional Releases, Part 3 of 3, pg 135
Found in: FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)
Beamis (?)
, chairman of the Republican Party in Virginia and owner of "a string of hotels" in that state, for help in persuading me to tell what I know about Oswald
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[...]
In the early 1970s, CIA Counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty, determined, by reading some WW II VENONA decrypts, that George DeMohrenschildt was very likely a long-term KGB "illegal."
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TG-
deM. was "very likely" or just possibly a KGB asset?
Can you cite evidence that Petty determined DeM. was, in the 1960s, "very likely" a KGB asset?
Wasn't that more of a suspicion?
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George DeMohrenschildt was "very likely" or just possibly a KGB asset?
According to Richard Russell in The Man Who Knew Too Much, Petty thought DeMohrenschildt fit the bill because, like a particular "Illegal" in the VENONA decrypts:
1. He was born "maybe in Poland" (300 miles from the Polish border in Byelorussia).
2. He emigrated to the U.S. before WW II (1938).
3. He lived in Mexico during WW II. (With his girlfriend, Lilia Pardo Larin.)
4. He was a wheeler-dealer. (sugar speculator, oil speculator, real estate salesman, marketer of his own artwork, etc.)
Take it up with Dick Russell if you want to.
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TG-
All that is pretty thin gruel. I have corresponded with Russell in the past.
deM. as a KGB handler of LHO actually fits into my suspicion that LHO was a de facto G2-DGI asset.
Have you a CT that deM. was an active KGB asset in 1963?
What Petty established is that deM. could have been an Iron Curtain asset in the immediate postwar period...but by the 1960s?
deM. is in interesting fellow. Was actually friends with Jackie K's family earlier on.
Was Clay Shaw a CIA asset in 1963 because he worked for the CIA in the 1950s?
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....Posts the opinion of a "reader" who does not even read the rest of the words posted in the two links I included in my post.
Why the hell would I?
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Why the hell would I?
ship
Because the "arrangement" below is queer, and an open minded person would be curious.
Oswald's shipmate from 18 years before is "shaken down" by Epstein and Hurt, advised by GHW Bush's lifelong friend, Bemiss,
They summered together in Kennebunkport, ME. GHW Bush is three months out of his job as DCI, the FBI claimed it could not find Bemiss!.
A perfect example of a CT focusing on trivialities instead of the evidence that tells us who shot JFK.
....Posts the opinion of a "reader" who does not even read the rest of the words posted in the two links I included in my post.
Three amigos from Rochester, Devine, Dryer, Macomber.
Macomber just happened to be the best man in Bush's sister's 1946 wedding to Alexander Ellis, and in Tom Devine's early 1970s wedding on Jupiter Island,
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3768659684_4b5737b120_o.jpg)
Devine and Dryer hold separate meetings with DeMohrenschildt and a Haitian banker on same day in late April, 1963,
just three weeks after DeMohrenschildt wrote that he had asked, "Lee, how did you miss?"
Bemis is described by Billy Joe Lord as the person Henry Hurt told Lord had advised Hurt on how to put pressure on Lord to cooperate with the Eostein/Hurt Reader's
Digest "inquiry". Bemis, "owner of a string of hotels," matches the description of Bush's longest friend, Gerry Bemiss, who just happens to be Hurt's wife's first cousin.
Yes, it was thoughtful of them, wasn't it? :
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=39eb56e0a03d1f43&sxsrf=APpeQnuY3DKlr7b_1Pib2y4PmzLFkSVxzQ:1784332265875&q=had+a+meeting+regarding+my+political+future%E2%80%94very+thoughtful+of+them.&udm=36&source=lnms&fbs=ABfTbFVyMZGZf1hfvX9uKjN_-G8cxpBkeIeqYwoCbfNVc4vKE0nzDtz46ks8VcXZ-FAj7roWouGYoa-8wJKyeh_fRvLGc5HvMtnq86ZTdu-hT_jvMWj88Ay957L9PwGeD-onUveIkecPSkl1ew4jViPtQV_7C42DWS_wvyN3PglWF-8A5h4Nf0l0U_JnxfnM37gvhQUhNcI8offn6I8qCIn-fQQnB6E1Ag&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiih_nW89qVAxWm5ckDHS7pA8sQ0pQJegQIVBAB&biw=1600&bih=732&dpr=1
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global
Jeffrey A. Engel · 2011
FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 311
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51197490078_69a2223cac_b.jpg)
Billy Joe Lord, excerpt from his 1977 letter to President Carter,
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145503&relPageId=135&search=beamis_and%20hotels
2. FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Additional Releases, Part 3 of 3, pg 135
Found in: FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)
Beamis (?)
, chairman of the Republican Party in Virginia and owner of "a string of hotels" in that state, for help in persuading me to tell what I know about Oswald
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitzGerald_Bemiss
...born on October 2, 1922, in Richmond, Virginia to Samuel Merrifield Bemiss and Dorothy FitzGerald Bemiss...
...was a conservative Democrat who initially was part of the Byrd Organization, but later joined the Republican Party in the 1950s when many Southern Democrats dissatisfied with the policies of desegregation enacted during the administration of Democratic President Harry Truman left the party. While serving part-time in the General Assembly as discussed below, Bemiss was vice-president of FitzGerald and Company (a family business), but ultimately resigned that legislative position because of his responsibilities as the president of Virginia Skyline Co. (another family business, that operated concessions along Skyline Drive through Shenandoah National Park and the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia)
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.....and President George H. W. Bush (a personal friend since childhood) appointed him Vice Chairman of the Board of the United States Naval Academy.[6][7]...
Langbourne Meade Williams Sr. -
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88891802/langbourne_meade-williams
Children
Langbourne Meade Williams Jr. - JOCK WHITNEY FINANCED LANGBOURNE JR'S BUYOUT OF FREEPORT SULPHUR
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88905107/langbourne_meade-williams
George Dandridge Williams HENRY HURT'S WIFE'S FATHER
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88953152/george_dandridge-williams
Siblings
Cyane Dandridge Williams Bemiss - GRANDMOTHER OF GERRY BEMISS WHO "ADVISED" HENRY HURT, per 1977 letter by Billy Joe Lord
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88850510/cyane_dandridge-bemiss
SON -
Samuel Merrifield Bemiss - FATHER OF FITZGERALD Jerry BEMISS
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/89080540/samuel_merrifield-bemiss
SON -
FitzGerald Bemiss
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/65388323/fitzgerald-bemiss
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51197174691_bf9dc62c13_c.jpg)
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[...]
BFD.
Pardon my German.
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BFD.
Pardon my German.
Except everything, and then some, that Billy Joe Lord wrote in his letter to Carter, checks out.
No one with no internet excess could learn all of this Helicopter :)!
Look at Lord's boss's obit, a year later. Lord would have had to have "God's eyes" to deliver all of this acurately, but he did it. The book project was
financed by the CIA's friend at Reader's Digest.
Later, Melvin Laird is hired as an RD executive, with no relevant experience.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/lohud/name/fulton-oursler-obituary?id=20767221
Fulton Oursler - 2016
"....He joined Reader's Digest in 1956. In 1964, he completed his father's unfinished auto-biography Behold This Dreamer. He retired from his position as executive editor in chief and vice president at Reader's Digest in 1986.,,,"
Oursler's mother was close to FBI's Nichols,
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241655500_Friends_of_the_Bureau_Personal_Correspondence_and_the_Cultivation_of_Journalist-Adjuncts_by_J_Edgar_Hoover's_FBI
https://www.researchgate.net › publication › 24165550...
Journalists like The American Magazine's Courtney Ryley Cooper, Fulton Oursler of Reader's Digest ... Nichols to Director, FBI, September 29, 1950, FBI file.
Wim and his boys dug iinto this but theu couldn't deliver,:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50336417373_82bcf8e5f5_b.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barron_(American_journalist)
.....In 1965, Barron joined the Washington bureau of Reader's Digest. There he wrote more than 100 stories on a wide variety of subjects—notably a 1980 story concerning unanswered questions surrounding the drowning death of Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick in a car driven by Ted Kennedy.
After Barron published his 1974 book KGB: The Secret Work of Soviet Secret Agents, the KGB attempted to discredit him by faking claims that Barron was part of a Zionist conspiracy as well as "...made much of his Jewish origins...".[2] In 1996, Barron published a book detailing the saga of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Operation SOLO, involving the infiltration of the top leadership of the Communist Party USA by the FBI's secret informant Morris Childs. From 1958 through 1977, Childs traveled to Moscow over 50 times, acting as a courier between the CPUSA and Communist Party of the Soviet Union.[3] Childs was instrumental in helping with the transfer of over $28 million from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union to the Communist Party of the US to help fund its activities, with each transaction painstakingly reported by Childs to his FBI handlers.[4]
https://findingaids.library.georgetown.edu/repositories/15/resources/10058/search
Collection: Fulton Oursler, Jr. Papers | Georgetown University Archival ...
The John F. Kennedy Assassination and Espionage Series contins memos, reports, correspondence and printed materials relating to the publication of articles and books by Henry Hurt, Edward J. Epstein, and others on the assassination of John F. Kennedy and Cold War spies. Oursler was the editor of two works by Henry Hurt: 'Shadrin, The Spy Who Never Came Back' and 'Reasonable Doubt', the latter .
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Do you have a conspiracy theory that DeMohrenschildt was an active KGB asset in 1963? What Petty established is that DeMohrenschildt could [sic] have been an Iron Curtain asset in the immediate postwar period ... but by the 1960s?
You're right.
NKVD/KGB/GRU/SVR/FSB "Illegals" are will-o'-the-wisp / ephemeral.
Except for people like Rudolf Abel, Jack Barsky, Elena Vavilova, Andrey Bezrukov, Gunter Guillaume, Kolon Molody, and Anna Chapman and the Eleven (or was it twelve?) Dwarfs.
Was Clay Shaw a CIA asset in 1963 because he worked for the CIA in the 1950s?
Clay Shaw was a volunteer Domestic Contacts source from 1948 to 1956.
Since workers are, by definition, paid for what they do for a company (pardon the pun), Shaw didn't "work" for the CIA -- he was a patriotic unpaid volunteer.
As to whether or not Shaw was a witting or unwitting unpaid "asset" of the evil, evil CIA in 1963, who knows?
Why?
Is he one of your favorite "perps"?
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You're right.
NKVD/KGB/SVR/FSB/GRU "Illegals" are ephemeral.
(LOL!)
Clay Shaw was a volunteer Domestic Contacts source from 1948 to 1956.
Since workers are, by definition, paid for what they do for a company (pardon the pun), Shaw didn't "work" for the evil, evil, evil CIA.
He was a patriotic unpaid volunteer.,
As to whether or not Shaw was a witting or unwitting unpaid "asset" of the evil, evil CIA in 1963, who knows?
Is he one of your favorite "perps"?
Coincidentally speaking, I am sure.... David Baldwin was kicked out of India as a CIA officer and Shaw snapped him up in the role of the Trade Mart's first PR flack.
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html (https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html)
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –
JOAN: – when (Attorney Edward) Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….
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In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw, Donald H Carpenter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knckgt3ASNI/Vrd2i7xQ1aI/AAAAAAAACvc/m_y25b9LkuA/s512-Ic42/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)
https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq="joan+mellen"... (https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq="joan+mellen"+stephen+lemann&source=bl&ots=JQ0cQ7W_xe&sig=zjEbm-HJgiFBiqsZJ_VSNijJh0U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAvsOe1YnMAhVLHD4KHdSUDKoQ6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=%20stephen%20lemann&f=false)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6e7iexAG0lM/Vrds4GJIGUI/AAAAAAAACvM/3WomDDWJrMw/s512-Ic42/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)
Fred ignored the fact that Nicholas Lemann was Thomas's son Steohen's nephew, and David Baldwin's mother-in-law (Thomas & Stephen's step-mom since 1947) was Nicholas's step-grandmother, the only fraternal grandmother Nicholas knew. :
Whoops!
GQ Magazine - "The Case Against Jim Garrison"
Writer: Fred Litwin
Fred Litwin
Oct 5, 2023
19 min read
Updated: Feb 2
The January 1992 issue of GQ featured an article by Nicholas Lemann titled "The Case Against Jim Garrison."
GQ Magazine - "The Case Against Jim Garrison"
Writer: Fred Litwin
Fred Litwin
Oct 5, 2023
19 min read
Updated: Feb 2The January 1992 issue of GQ featured an article by Nicholas Lemann titled "The Case Against Jim Garrison."
.....
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_d3433efd82a94b2dbe88d747ef43adb1~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_714,h_1055,al_c,q_85,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_d3433efd82a94b2dbe88d747ef43adb1~mv2.jpg--)
[/quote]
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Coincidentally speaking, I am sure .... David Baldwin was kicked out of India as a CIA officer and Shaw snapped him up in the role of the Trade Mart's first PR flack.
But were their garbagemen golfing partners?
Hmm?
ME: What does "PR flack" mean?
Google AI: A "PR flack" is a slang or sometimes pejorative term for a public relations professional, press agent, or spokesperson. The term is often used in American English and can range from a neutral catch-all for PR representatives to a derogatory label for someone who spins negative stories.
A question for Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Scully:
Do you think Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" who was helping the CIA bring fascism back to Italy?
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But were their garbagemen golfing partners?
Hmm?
ME: What does "PR flack" mean?
Google AI: A "PR flack" is a slang or sometimes pejorative term for a public relations professional, press agent, or spokesperson. The term is often used in American English and can range from a neutral catch-all for PR representatives to a derogatory label for someone who spins negative stories.
A question for Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Scully:
Do you think Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" who was helping the CIA bring fascism back to Italy?
No, I do not.
I am satisfied that Tom Purvis's observation that Garrison and Shaw were actually united in an effort to make further investigation of the JFKA
look foolish. It worked for a time. There was a hiatus in official inquiry from 1969 to 1975.
After Baldwin got hired as AMA "PR Flack" in 1955, Shaw hired Jesse Core, Baldwin's sidekick in Calcuitta, to take Baldwin's place.
Edwin Walker's Turtle Creek landlord hosted Core and William Ruffle's daughter's engagement party in the same house Oswald allegedly
later broke an exterior window pain, of. William Ruffle was a Dallas newspaper opinion editor who is credited with coining the oppressive phrase, "Right to Work"!
Mrs. Ruffle Core got mixed up in the protests lead by Mac Wallace in reaction to U of T's disciplining Homer Rainey because of his politics.
The CIA did not forget Mrs. Core's role.
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2326-malcolm-wallace-part-2/
By Larry Hancock
Horace Busby and Malcolm Wallace were not just schoolmates at UT; they were campus leaders, leaders allied in the same sorts of causes. Busby was the editor of the "Daily Texan", UT student newspaper, and a strong proponent of the liberal (for Texas in the 1940's) President of UT, Doctor Homer Rainey
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After Baldwin got hired as AMA "PR Flack" in 1955, Shaw hired Jesse Core, Baldwin's sidekick in Calcuitta, to take Baldwin's place.
Edwin Walker's Turtle Creek landlord hosted Core and William Ruffle's daughter's engagement party in the same house Oswald allegedly
later broke an exterior window pain, of. William Ruffle was a Dallas newspaper opinion editor who is credited with coining the oppressive phrase, "Right to Work"!
Do you think Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" who was helping the CIA bring fascism back to Italy?
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The CIA historian published a CIA-vetted report, on CIA letterhead, that Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" for the CIA in the 1950s.
You say Shaw was only a volunteer.
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The CIA historian published a CIA-vetted report, on CIA letterhead, that Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" for the CIA in the 1950s.
IIRC, that wasn't the only mistake your boy, J. Kenneth McDonnald, made in that rushed-and-cobbled-together report.
Fred Litwin has written:
As for the document's reliability, researcher Paul Hoch has found another example of where it was wrong. It refers to "records relating to Gilberto Alvarado, who maintained that he witnessed Cubans passing Oswald cash at a party on the night before the assassination." In fact, this description is obviously a confused mashup of two allegations that were separately made: one by Gilberto Alvarado in 1963 (which he ultimately retracted), and another, made later, by Elena Garro de Paz. A different page in the 1992 document correctly describes Alvarado as "the Nicaraguan who claimed he saw Lee Harvey Oswald receive cash in meetings inside Mexico City Cuban embassy." Elena Garro de Paz claimed to have seen Oswald and two companions at a "twist party" in Mexico City. The date given for this twist party (November 21) matches neither allegation and is obviously an error, thus suggesting that the 1992 document is not a completely reliable accounting of what is in the CIA's own archive. On the night before the assassination, Oswald was in Dallas with Marina at Ruth Paine's house (thus he could not have received cash in Alvarado's presence or have been at a party in Mexico City). Oswald was only in Mexico City from September 26 to October 3. If he attended a party - which is a big if - it could only have happened during this time period.
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Shaw was the only OSS agent allowed to work with British intelligence in Italy in WWII...As in the Kennedy conspiracy and Permindex, this showed special deep Intel status...British Intelligence and Permindex shared a hot Cold War front in that area of the world at the time...The same area that Jimi Hendrix manager and MI-6 member Michael Jeffery worked in during his national service in the 1950's...
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From what I've read (the Carpenter and Litwin books, primary sources, et cetera), Shaw was assigned to the SOS in the war not the OSS. The SOS was Services of Supply. He was a supply officer who, among other duties, was assigned to help stockpile supplies for the Normandy Invasion; he was not an intelligence officer. According to his military records he was stationed in England, France and Belgium during the war. He was never in Italy.
Roughly ~24,000 people worked for the OSS during the war. Including the famous chef Julia Child (her maiden name was McWilliams). I added her name just to point out that simply working for the OSS or the CIA doesn't mean you're an agent or involved in espionage.
Here is a list of those people: https://www.archives.gov/files/iwg/declassified-records/rg-226-oss/personnel-database.pdf
Shaw is not on the list.
And, for kicks, here is Julia Child's file. She was a typist and research/administrative assistant during her service and was paid $2980 each year (she was not a "spy"): https://catalog.archives.gov/medialive/61/1806/2180661/content/arcmedia/oss/McWilliams_Child_Julia.pdf
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No...Sure...
Permindex, the Kennedy conspiracy, and Richard Helms being caught committing perjury over Shaw all point towards what you wrote...
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From what I've read (the Carpenter and Litwin books et cetera), Shaw was assigned to the SOS in the war not the OSS. The SOS was Service of Supply. He was a supply officer who, among other duties, was assigned to help stockpile supplies for the Normandy Invasion; he was not an intelligence officer. According to his military records he was stationed in England, France and Belgium during the war. He was never in Italy.
Roughly ~24,000 people worked for the OSS during the war. Including the famous chef Julia Child (her maiden name was McWilliams).
Here is a list of those people: https://www.archives.gov/files/iwg/declassified-records/rg-226-oss/personnel-database.pdf
Shaw is not on the list.
And, for kicks, here is Julia Child's file. She was a typist and administrative assistant during her service and was paid $2980 each year (she was not a "spy"): https://catalog.archives.go v/medialive/61/1806/2180661/content/arcmedia/oss/McWilliams_Child_Julia.pdf
Carpenter's research discredits Litwin, so what you took away from reading Carpenter's book were only the points that confirmed your bias.
Seeking to confirm my independent research results in early 2016,
April 12, 2016 (Archived, it takes a minute to load in your browser)
https://web.archive.org/web/20161229152232/https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223#comment-869223
....that the publicly presented, "divide" between Garrison and Shaw could have been
settled at a Sunday dinner table gathering of Garrison and his wife's first cousin David Baldwin, and his Lemann in-laws, The only source I found
that confirmed my research was in Carpenter's book.
Fred, by including images of Nicholas Lemann's GQ article, https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/gq-magazine-the-case-against-jim-garrison
exactly timed by GQ editors, and Lemann, to arrive on news stands coinciding with the release of Oliver Stone's film, in Fred's presentation
without disclosing that Nicholas Lemann's step-grandmother was the mother-in-law of David Baldwin, who had informed Shaw that he, David was the godfather and first
cousin of Garrison's wife, Leah, indicates Fred buys into the entire charade, and that you do, too. It is obvious Nicholas and Garrison were misleading both Joan Mellen
and the editor of Garrison's "On the Trail...." Zachary Sklar, who was also Oliver Stone's co-screen play writer of JFK, the movie.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,5112.msg182698.html#msg182698
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1435.msg46831.html#msg46831
.....
Tom S. June 6, 2016 at 11:37 pm
Part II of II
Oliver Stone protested :.....
......
Here is the link to Nicholas Lemann and Zachary Sklar trading letters in GQ, after the Lemann?s Jan., 1992 article was published?..
Lemann responds on pg. 2, to Sklar?s letter which begins on pg 1.:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman's%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
...
No disclosure in Nicholas?s rebuttal to Zachary Sklar, or from Sklar about Lemann?s conflicts/background:.
......
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[...]
Jefferson "Yuri Nosenko Was a True Defector" Morley's "JFK Facts" (sic).
Gag me with a KGB spoon.
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I don't care about any of these items from just the first page of the forum topics:
Bart Kemp
Billy Lovelady
Pauline Sanders
Jeff Morley
CIA wallets
Babushka Lady
Why don't I care? Because none of the above had anything to do with the JFKA. They are all irrelevant distractions. I'm sure if I went back far enough, I could find dozens of other topics I don't care about. It amuses me how much people obsess about these topics. The phrase "barking up the wrong tree" comes to mind.
You left out two major things that you don't care about:
Facts
Objectivity
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You left out two major things that you don't care about:
Facts
Objectivity
You are a stranger to both.
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Why don't the "skeptics" ever attack the Prayer Man theory?...
Is it because some CT-ers are actually Agent Provocateurs trying to discredit the genuine CT community with crazy claims?...
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Why don't the "skeptics" ever attack the Prayer Man theory?...
Is it because some CT-ers are actually Agent Provocateurs trying to discredit the genuine CT community with crazy claims?...
There is no genuine CT community.
You're all a bunch of zombified-by-KGB disinformation, tinfoil-hat fantasists who psychologically need to believe (and preach) that Peter Dale Scott's evil, evil "Deep State" or Jimmy DiEugenio's evil, evil "National Security State" or Steve Bannon's evil, evil "Administrative State" killed JFK.
LOL!
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Why don't the "skeptics" ever attack the Prayer Man theory?...
Is it because some CT-ers are actually Agent Provocateurs trying to discredit the genuine CT community with crazy claims?...
History would suggest - the UFO field being one notable example - that governmental disinformation agents and cognitive infiltrators would be far more likely to be promoting self-evident wackiness like Prayer Man or Harvey and Lee than trying to defend and prop up the LN narrative. It's odd that CTers seemingly never grasp this reality.
I will confess, why the LN zealots feel compelled to zealously defend the LN narrative as though it were their religion is a mystery to me, but it certainly isn't because they have been recruited by the CIA; there may have been some of that in the early days, but not 62 years later. A wacky CTer would be a far more likely candidate. On the other hand, every area of weirdness including the JFKA is rife with true wackos whose true wackiness has nothing to do with being a disiniformation agent or cognitive infiltrator - so separating the faux crazies from the genuine ones poses a bit of a challenge.
This is why, I imagine, the LN zealots tend to be the ones suspected of being cognitive infiltrators; zealously defending the LN narrative isn't self-evidently wacky, but on the other hand identifying a motive for this level of zealotry is rather difficult. To pick on John C since he started this thread, he claims to be a devout LNer who finds all this CT stuff beneath him, yet he haunts the forum like almost no one else. Why? Maybe he's being paid to do so, ya think? Some of the CTers here would fit the more likely profile of a cognitive infiltrator - but maybe they're just genuine wackos, ya think? Yep, it's a challenge.
At the Ed Forum, I always thought the CIA could not invent a better cognitive infiltrator than Dr. Niederwacky - a licensed psychiatrist who nevertheless spouts jaw-dropping nonsense about almost every topic while accusing anyone who disagrees (including little old me, for God's sake) of being a cognitive infiltrator! He has almost single-handedly destroyed the Ed Forum. He probably isn't one, but that's what a cognitive infiltrator would look like.
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History would suggest - the UFO field being one notable example - that governmental disinformation agents and cognitive infiltrators would be far more likely to be promoting self-evident wackiness like Prayer Man or Harvey and Lee than trying to defend and prop up the LN narrative. It's odd that CTers seemingly never grasp this reality.
I will confess, why the LN zealots feel compelled to zealously defend the LN narrative as though it were their religion is a mystery to me, but it certainly isn't because they have been recruited by the CIA; there may have been some of that in the early days, but not 62 years later. A wacky CTer would be a far more likely candidate. On the other hand, every area of weirdness including the JFKA is rife with true wackos whose true wackiness has nothing to do with being a disiniformation agent or cognitive infiltrator - so separating the faux crazies from the genuine ones poses a bit of a challenge.
This is why, I imagine, the LN zealots tend to be the ones suspected of being cognitive infiltrators; zealously defending the LN narrative isn't self-evidently wacky, but on the other hand identifying a motive for this level of zealotry is rather difficult. To pick on John C since he started this thread, he claims to be a devout LNer who finds all this CT stuff beneath him, yet he haunts the forum like almost no one else. Why? Maybe he's being paid to do so, ya think? Some of the CTers here would fit the more likely profile of a cognitive infiltrator - but maybe they're just genuine wackos, ya think? Yep, it's a challenge.
At the Ed Forum, I always thought the CIA could not invent a better cognitive infiltrator than Dr. Niederwacky - a licensed psychiatrist who nevertheless spouts jaw-dropping nonsense about almost every topic while accusing anyone who disagrees (including little old me, for God's sake) of being a cognitive infiltrator! He has almost single-handedly destroyed the Ed Forum. He probably isn't one, but that's what a cognitive infiltrator would look like.
Why would the CIA have ever cared what goes on in forums such as this. At their peaks these forums might have reached a few hundred people and now the regular participants number in the dozens. If people have been getting paid for posting pro-LN material, somebody owes me a shitload of back pay.