JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on July 14, 2026, 04:32:50 AM
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At this point, does it really matter who killed JFK?
It seems to me that the really important thing is that the Kremlin and its KGB (today's SVR and FSB) have "made hay" from the anomaly-replete assassination literally since Day One, when some Kremlin functionaries told Morris Childs, one of the FBI's SOLO brothers who couriered $28 million from the Kremlin to the CPUSA over twenty years and who just happened to be at the Kremlin around midnight on 11/22/63, that the KGB had nothing to do with former Marine sharpshooter and U-2 radar operator Lee Harvey Oswald during the two-and-a-half years he lived in the USSR.
Three-and-a-half years later, the KGB planted an anti-CIA/anti-Clay Shaw article in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper three days after over-ambitious, scandal-plagued, and revengeful New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison had arrested the New Orleans businessman on suspicion of having masterminded a Loeb-and-Leopold-like homosexual thrill-kill assassination. The article was picked up by a far-left French newspaper, translated into English and given to Garrison by Bertrand Russell’s far-left secretary, Ralph Schoenman, and motivated Garrison to change his theory against Shaw to "He organized it for the CIA!"
Factoid:
In his 1989 book, "On the Trail of the Assassins" — which Oliver Stone integrated into his self-described mythological (“to counter the myth of the Warren Report”) film, “JFK,” Garrison lied when he said he didn't read the article until after the 1969 trial (which the jury decided against him in less than an hour). We know that he lied, though, because his assistant, Life magazine’s Richard Billings, wrote in his diary in mid-March 1967 that Garrison had received said article and was beginning to believe the CIA was behind the assassination.
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TG--
You ask a fascinating and timely question, not just about the JFKA, but so many public-political events.
The ideology writes the agenda, and the agenda writes the narrative.
There is little doubt that Western leftists, and later leftist-Islamists, seized on the JFKA platform to advance their narratives, sometimes funded and boosted by Moscow or the IRGC, and who knows what NGOs or other intermediaries.
Lately, every large public event follows this pattern.
Odd historical fact: It was President LBJ himself who perped a snuff job on an investigation into LHO links to Havana and Moscow.
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You ask a fascinating and timely question, not just about the JFKA, but so many public-political events.
Yes, like the KGB's, the GRU's, and the Saint Petersburg Professional Trolls', et als', installing pro-Putin Donald Trump as our "president" on 20 January 2017 with help from people like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Julian Assange.
I find it interesting that you rarely say anything negative about the KGB (today's SVR and FSB).
Why is that?
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TG--
I think it is possible the KGB had a tangential role in the JFKA, and directly liquidated who knows how many people globally, and successor alphabet agencies are doing the same work.
Putin is the worst Russian leader since Stalin.
There, I said bad things about the KGB and Putin.
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TG--
I think it is possible the KGB had a tangential role in the JFKA, and directly liquidated who knows how many people globally, and successor alphabet agencies are doing the same work.
Putin is the worst Russian leader since Stalin.
There, I said bad things about the KGB and Putin.
Now you can go back to "Iran! Iran! Iran! Iran!"
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It doesn't seem to matter to the CTs who killed JFK. They make no effort to find out. Their whole game is denying it was Oswald.
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It doesn't seem to matter to the CTs who killed JFK. They make no effort to find out. Their whole game is denying to was Oswald.
Which Oswald? Harvey or Lee? The Bolton Ford Oswald, or the Lincoln Mercury Oswald? The Oswald who was with Marita Lorenz on a Caravan to Dallas, or the Oswald who worked with Judyth Baker to kill Castro with cancer? The Oswald Thornley knew, or the Oswald Titovets knew? Or the Oswald who took Russia-lessons given to him in Minsk by the late head of state of Belarus Stanislav Stanislavovich Shushkevich? Choose. ;)
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Richard Case Nagel shows that KGB had nothing to do with it...
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BD-
I don't place a lot of faith in Nagell, but didn't he say LHO had been sent by Moscow to perp the JFKA, but they called off the mission, but LHO refused to end the assignment?
James Woolsey, former CIA director, has a similar narrative, that LHO was programmed in Russia.
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Extrapolate the Armstrong template and it is really all you need outside of the spy vs spy bs that was designed to confuse the issue...
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Which Oswald? Harvey or Lee? The Bolton Ford Oswald, or the Lincoln Mercury Oswald? The Oswald who was with Marita Lorenz on a Caravan to Dallas, or the Oswald who worked with Judyth Baker to kill Castro with cancer? The Oswald Thornley knew, or the Oswald Titovets knew? Or the Oswald who took Russia-lessons given to him in Minsk by the late head of state of Belarus Stanislav Stanislavovich Shushkevich? Choose. ;)
I know of only one Oswald who shot killed JFK on 11/22/1963. He killed a cop that same day.
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Does it really matter who killed JFK?
It seems to me that the really important thing is that the Kremlin and its KGB (today's SVR and FSB) have "made hay" from the anomaly-replete assassination literally since Day One, when some Kremlin functionaries told Morris Childs, one of the FBI's SOLO brothers who couriered $28 million from the Kremlin to the CPUSA over twenty years and who just happened to be at the Kremlin around midnight on 11/22/63, that the KGB had nothing to do with former Marine sharpshooter and U-2 radar operator Lee Harvey Oswald during the two-and-a-half years he lived in the USSR.
Three-and-a-half years later, the KGB planted an anti-CIA/anti-Clay Shaw article in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper three days after over-ambitious, scandal-plagued, and revengeful New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison had arrested the New Orleans businessman on suspicion of having masterminded a Loeb-and-Leopold-like homosexual thrill-kill assassination. The article was picked up by a far-left French newspaper, translated into English and given to Garrison by Bertrand Russell’s far-left secretary, Ralph Schoenman, and motivated Garrison to change his theory against Shaw to "He organized it for the CIA!"
Factoid:
In his 1989 book, "On the Trail of the Assassins" — which Oliver Stone integrated into his self-described mythological (“to counter the myth of the Warren Report”) film, “JFK,” Garrison lied when he said he didn't read the article until after the 1969 trial (which the jury decided against him in less than an hour). We know that he lied, though, because his assistant, Life magazine’s Richard Billings, wrote in his diary in mid-March 1967 that Garrison had received said article and was beginning to believe the CIA was behind the assassination.
Has it occurred to you that the KGB knew of evidence that rogue elements of the CIA played a role in the JFK assassination and decided to try to get this information to the American people to counter the common belief that Oswald acted on behalf of the Soviets and/or their Cuban proxies?
If Richard Case Nagell was telling the truth, and there are good reasons to believe he was mostly truthful, then the KGB knew about the assassination plot before JFK was killed and tried to prevent it because they feared right-wingers in the U.S. Government would use it to persuade the government to start WWIII with the Soviets and/or the Cubans.
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Has it occurred to you that the KGB knew of evidence that rogue elements of the CIA played a role in the JFK assassination and decided to try to get this information to the American people to counter the common belief that Oswald acted on behalf of the Soviets and/or their Cuban proxies?
If Richard Case Nagell was telling the truth, and there are good reasons to believe he was mostly truthful, then the KGB knew about the assassination plot before JFK was killed and tried to prevent it because they feared right-wingers in the U.S. Government would use it to persuade the government to start WWIII with the Soviets and/or the Cubans.
Dear Michael "Useful Idiot Or Worse" Griffith,
John M. Newman, whom you probably idolized in 2008 when he was preaching, in the epilogue of his revised edition of Oswald and the CIA, that evil, evil James Angleton masterminded the JFK assassination, now says that Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior, Bruce Leonard Solie in the Office of Security, was a KGB "mole" and that he sent former Marine sharpshooter and U-2 radar operator Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a (unbeknownst to Angleton and Oswald) planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA.
Which ties in with what Nagell said.
Just substitute Bruce Leonard Solie (and Nosenko-defending Leonard V. McCoy and Russia-born Nosenko-defender George Kisevalter?) for "rogue elements of the CIA."
-- Tom
PS In October 1968, Solie "cleared" false-defector-in-place-in-Geneva-in-June-1962 / false (or perhaps rogue) physical defector to the U.S. in February, 1964 Yuri "The KGB Had Nothing To Do With Oswald In The USSR!", Nosenko via a bogus polygraph exam and a specious report, and from June 1966 to December 1975 he was instrumental in the Igor Kochnov (KITTY HAWK) case which ended tragically when former defector Nicholas Shadrin (formerly Nikolas Artamonov) was kidnapped by the KGB in Vienna, and from 1975 to 1978 he hid CIA documents from the Church Committee and the HSCA.
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They didn't fire any shots that day, but the Secret Service killed him through incompetence.
"After the shooting, one of the secret service men sitting down in the car in front of us pulled out an automatic rifle or weapon and looked backward. However, all of the secret service men seemed to me to respond very slowly, with no more than a puzzled look. In fact, until the automatic weapon was uncovered, I had been lulled into a sense of false hope for the President's safety, by the lack of motion, excitement, or apparent visible knowledge by the secret service men, that anything so dreadful was happening. Knowing something of the training that combat infantrymen and Marines receive, I am amazed at the lack of instantaneous response by the Secret Service, when the rifle fire began. I make this statement in this paragraph reluctantly, not to add to the anguish of anyone, but it is my firm opinion, and I write it out in the hope that it might be of service in the better protection of our Presidents in the future" Ralph W. Yarborough
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Dear DangerMan Tom:
Why are you still stuck in the 60’s USA spy vs USSR spy world? Do you really believe that Kruschev would risk assassinating a US President who had just made concessions to the USSR to resolve the Cuban Missile Crisis?A US president who had publicly stated he wanted cooperation with the USSR to explore outer space. A US President that Kruschev said was the best US President they had ever dealt with?
In response to the question Does it really matter who killed JFK, the answer is: YES IT DOES. Because if the Marxist Leftist Kook Oswald did it then we should beware of all the other potential Marxist Leftist Kooks out there whom might have a similar obsession with the current US President.
Or, if it was a conspiracy, then why did JFK have to be terminated and who profited and did their organization continue to exist or have they all died.
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They didn't fire any shots that day, but the Secret Service killed him through incompetence.
"After the shooting, one of the secret service men sitting down in the car in front of us pulled out an automatic rifle or weapon and looked backward. However, all of the secret service men seemed to me to respond very slowly, with no more than a puzzled look. In fact, until the automatic weapon was uncovered, I had been lulled into a sense of false hope for the President's safety, by the lack of motion, excitement, or apparent visible knowledge by the secret service men, that anything so dreadful was happening. Knowing something of the training that combat infantrymen and Marines receive, I am amazed at the lack of instantaneous response by the Secret Service, when the rifle fire began. I make this statement in this paragraph reluctantly, not to add to the anguish of anyone, but it is my firm opinion, and I write it out in the hope that it might be of service in the better protection of our Presidents in the future" Ralph W. Yarborough
Some not, not all of the Secret Service agents apparently either didn't hear or did not recognize the first shot for what it was. They believe that JFK was hit by the first shot. It has always been puzzling to me why they didn't respond to the first shot but seems to be the case. Altgens 6 shows some of the agents turning to the rear in response to the second shot which is the first one to strike JFK. Clint Hill only remembers hearing two shots and he reacted when he saw JFK had been hit. The next shot he heard was the head shot as he was racing to the limo. I heard him say that he had been told there was an intervening shot that was fired while he was trying to get to the limo but he has no memory that, with good reason. There was no intervening shot. The shot he didn't hear was the first one. The only occupant of the limo who recognized the first shot for as a gun shot was JBC. He knew instantly what it was and according to his account, he immediately thought it was an assassination attempt.
So why did the others as well as some spectators not recognize the first shot. Some said they thought at first it was a firecracker. Others thought it was a motorcycle backfire. We are left to guess as to why others didn't either not hear or recognize the first shot? My own guess is that the motorcycles accelerating coming out of the sharp turn onto Elm St. created such a roar that it muffled the sound of the gunshot. I have no way of proving that. Just an educated guess.
The agents who believed JFK was hit by the first shot are giving themselves the benefit of the doubt because that gave them less than 5 seconds to react between the first shot and the fatal head shot. Those of us who believe the first shot was the missed shot believe there was actually more than 8 seconds between the first and last shot, varying that time frame based on when we believe that first shot was fired. My own belief is there were almost 9 seconds between the first and third shots. Had any of the agents on the running board reacted to that first shot, they might have reached JFK in time to keep him from being hit by the fatal headshot. Bill Greer was in the best position to prevent the assassination as the driver of the car but I read recently he was only supposed to do that on orders from Roy Kellerman. Had Greer immediately sped away, it's doubtful Oswald could have hit JFK with his follow up shots. Unfortunately, all the agents had to make split second decisions and it is easy to second guess them, but not knowing what they actually saw and heard, I'm not ready to say whether they should have acted more quickly than they did.
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Or, if it was a conspiracy, then why did JFK have to be terminated and who profited and did their organization continue to exist or have they all died.
From my perspective, the only one responsible for the assassination died a little more than 24 hours after JFK was killed. No one else will ever be identified as complicit in the assassination.
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Dear DangerMan Tom:
Why are you still stuck in the 60’s USA spy vs USSR spy world? Do you really believe that Kruschev would risk assassinating a US President who had just made concessions to the USSR to resolve the Cuban Missile Crisis?A US president who had publicly stated he wanted cooperation with the USSR to explore outer space. A US President that Kruschev said was the best US President they had ever dealt with?
In response to the question Does it really matter who killed JFK, the answer is: YES IT DOES. Because if the Marxist Leftist Kook Oswald did it then we should beware of all the other potential Marxist Leftist Kooks out there who might have a similar obsession with the current US President.
Or, if it was a conspiracy, then why did JFK have to be terminated and who profited and did their organization continue to exist or have they all died.
Dear Rare Gas,
A 1954 true defector, KGB Major Pyotr Deriabin, listed several reasons why Khruschev would have wanted to kill JFK. You can read about them in Mark Riebling's 1994 book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and the CIA. Deriabin also said that Marina had to be at least a low-level KGB informant to be allowed to marry her Handsome Prince Charming and leave The Worker's Paradise with him.
Some experts think that GRU Lt. Col. Oleg Penkovsky, whom we know due to the "Zepp Incident" was betrayed by a mole in American or British intelligence within two weeks of his April 1961 recruitment by the CIA and MI6, was secretly arrested by the KGB and told to give JFK intel about the missiles in Cuba so that he would withdraw our Jupiter missiles from Italy and Turkey and abandon The Monroe Doctrine.
Why in the world would a Marxist want to kill The Traitorous Orange I could crush a Grape ooooh yummy yummy who's doing such a good job of tearing us apart?
-- Tom
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From my perspective, the only one responsible for the assassination died a little more than 24 hours after JFK was killed. No one else will ever be identified as complicit in the assassination.
From the standpoint of the actual evidence, IOW, observations of irrefutable quality, Ruby's improbable rooomate, George Senator testified that he had worked at his
brother's Gloversville, NY soda fountain. The location in Gloversville happened to be within shouting distance of the Schein Chain Theatres' corporate office.
Senator's parents and David Schine's parents are interred in the small Gloversville Jewish cemetery. See:
Cemetery search page, last name Senator or Schine. George Senator's father, Abraham's grave location.:
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/64955/knesseth-israel-cemetery
RFK and David Schine's and Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn, came to physical confrontation in the Senate cloak room when the three worked on McCarthy's witch hunt.
Schine and Cohn created a spectacle when Cohn put pressure on the army to protect Schine from the full experience of the military draft. They toured Europe together,
visiting US Embassies' libraries to find and remove books they objected to the leftist subject matter of.
Schein's sister married Lester Crown, the son of the man described as having the most to gain resulting from timely assassination of JFK because investigations at the time
exposed the conflicts of interest and ethics lapses that Henry Crown feared would result in transfer of the contracts to build the F-111B combat aircraft by the defense contractor Crown controlled, General Dynamics.
Not long after David Schine was exposed and embarrassed resulting from Cohn's efforts on his behalf, Schine married his "beard", a recent Miss Universe,
In June, 1968, Schine's family owned the Los Angeles hotel in which RFK was shot nearly to death, Schine's role was General Mgr said to either have hired
security guard Cesar Eugene Thane and or had a direct role in Thane's work assignment resulting in Thane's being investigated as the actual or back up assassin
since more shots had been fired than could have all been sourced by Sirhan's weapon. Thane owned a hand gun of compatible caliber as the claimed assassination
weapon.
Schine's dad, Junius, also owned the Roney hotel and the Gulfstream on Miami Beach where Hoover and Tolson received a comped stay each winter. Mickey Cohen enjoyed gambling concessions in Schine's east and west coast hotels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gulfstream+schine+miami+hoover+tolson&sca_esv=f82fb0e6dd84ffd6&udm=36&biw=1600&bih=732&sxsrf=APpeQnuym3JBR6fFRqZkNdxAc4rVIt3s_A%3A1784172863502&ei=P1FYao2yHo-_p84Pl5_WQQ&ved=0ahUKEwjNzfztodaVAxWP38kDHZePNQgQ4dUDCBI&uact=5&oq=gulfstream+schine+miami+hoover+tolson&gs_lp=EhBnd3Mtd2l6LW1vZGVsZXNzIiVndWxmc3RyZWFtIHNjaGluZSBtaWFtaSBob292ZXIgdG9sc29uMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wUyBRAAGO8FMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wVIhWxQgwhYiFZwAngAkAEAmAFjoAHTBKoBATe4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgagAuIDwgIIECEYoAEYwwTCAggQABiJBRiiBJgDAIgGAZIHAzQuMqAHvRCyBwMzLjK4B-ADwgcDMS41yAcKgAgB&sclient=gws-wiz-modeless
Schine put up Hoover and Tolson in his Gulfstream Hotel on Miami Beach, headquarters for the Mob's betting-parlor impresario Frank Erickson. The boys had taken to doping a nag occasionally, and mostly through Walter Winchell the word .....
Ruby's telephoned calls during the summer of 1963 included a call to Gloversville the investigation did not link to hometown boy, George Senator, but to a made mob member
Joe Cataldo, who the investigative record claimed was a call made to Cataldo's girlfriend's home where Cataldo was visiting. This suggests Ruby had more than the passing
familiarity with Cataldo that Ruby later claimed.
https://thenewyorkmafia.com/joseph-joe-the-wop-cataldo/
The New York Mafia
Genovese Soldier Joseph (Joe the Wop) Cataldo
A well-versed mafioso in nearly all street rackets, Cataldo nonetheless seemed to gravitate to and be most comfortable operating in a wide variety of bars and nightclubs, B-girl clip joints, homosexual bars as well as popular music venues throughout Manhattan....
David Schien and his wife were killed in 1996 in an airplane piloted by their son, also killed. The investigation determined that although the fatal crash occurred just after
take off the plane's fuel tanks were empty.
Lester Crown and Schine's sister near 100 years old now, are still alive. Lester, although once criminally charged, was a major influence on Obama's decision to run for President.
https://screenrant.com/fellow-travelers-david-schine-mccarthyism-true-story/
....How Fellow Travelers Changes David Schine's True Story
Schine Eventually Left Politics After Army-McCarthy Hearings
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From the standpoint of the actual evidence, IOW observations of irrefutable quality, Ruby's improbable rooomate, George Senator testified that he had worked at his
brother's Gloversville, NY soda fountain. The location in Gloversville happened to be within shouting distance of the Schein Chain Theatres' corporate offic.
Senator's parents and David Schein's parents are interred in the small Gloversville Jewish cemetery.
RFK and David Schein's and Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn, came to physical confrontation in the Senate cloak room when the three worked on McCarthy's witch hunt.
Schein and Cohn created a spectacle when Cohn put pressure on the army to protect Schein from the full experience of the military draft. They toured Europe together,
visiting US Embassies' libraries to find and remove books they objected to the leftist subject matter of.
Schein's sister married Lester Crown, the son of the man described as having the most to gain resulting from timely assassination of JFK because investigations at the time
exposed the conflicts of intererst and ethics lapses that Henry Crown feared would result in transfer of the contracts to build the F-111B combat aircraft by the defense contractor Crown controlled, General Dynamics.
Not long after David Schein was exposed and embarrassed resulting from Cohn's efforts on his behalf, Schein married his "beard", a recent Miss Universe,
In June, 1968, Schein's family owned the Los Angeles hotel in which RFK was shot nearly to death, Schein's role was General Mgr said to either have hired
security guard Cesar Eugene Thane and or had a direct role in Thane's work assignment resulting in Thane's being investigated as the actual or back up assassin
since more shots had been fired than could have all been sourced by Sirhan's weapon. Thane owned a hand gun of compatible caliber as the claimed assassination
weapon.
Schein's dad, Junius, also owned the Rony hotel on Miami Beach where Hoover and Tolson received a comped stay each winter. Mickey Cohen enjoyed gambling concessions
in Schein's east and west coast hotels.
Ruby's telephoned calls during the summer of 1963 included a call to Gloversville the investigation did not link to hometown boy, George Senator, but to a made mob member
Joe Cataldo, who the investigative record claimed was a call made to Cataldo's girlfriend's home where Cataldo was visiting. This suggests Ruby had more than the passing
familiarity with Cataldo that Ruby later claimed.
David Schein and his wife were killed in 1996 in an airplane piloted by their son, also killed. The investigation determined that although the fatal crash occurred just after
take off the plane's fuel tanks were empty.
Lester Crown and Schein's sister near 100 years old now, are still alive. Lester, although once criminally charged, was a major influence on OBama's decision to run for President.
Dear Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Skully,
BFD.
(Pardon my German)
-- Tom
PS Why was probable KGB "mole" Bruce Leonard Solie so interested in Talbot Bielefeldt?
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Some not, not all of the Secret Service agents apparently either didn't hear or did not recognize the first shot for what it was. They believe that JFK was hit by the first shot. It has always been puzzling to me why they didn't respond to the first shot but seems to be the case. Altgens 6 shows some of the agents turning to the rear in response to the second shot which is the first one to strike JFK. Clint Hill only remembers hearing two shots and he reacted when he saw JFK had been hit. The next shot he heard was the head shot as he was racing to the limo. I heard him say that he had been told there was an intervening shot that was fired while he was trying to get to the limo but he has no memory that, with good reason. There was no intervening shot. The shot he didn't hear was the first one. The only occupant of the limo who recognized the first shot for as a gun shot was JBC. He knew instantly what it was and according to his account, he immediately thought it was an assassination attempt.
So why did the others as well as some spectators not recognize the first shot. Some said they thought at first it was a firecracker. Others thought it was a motorcycle backfire. We are left to guess as to why others didn't either not hear or recognize the first shot? My own guess is that the motorcycles accelerating coming out of the sharp turn onto Elm St. created such a roar that it muffled the sound of the gunshot. I have no way of proving that. Just an educated guess.
The agents who believed JFK was hit by the first shot are giving themselves the benefit of the doubt because that gave them less than 5 seconds to react between the first shot and the fatal head shot. Those of us who believe the first shot was the missed shot believe there was actually more than 8 seconds between the first and last shot, varying that time frame based on when we believe that first shot was fired. My own belief is there were almost 9 seconds between the first and third shots. Had any of the agents on the running board reacted to that first shot, they might have reached JFK in time to keep him from being hit by the fatal headshot. Bill Greer was in the best position to prevent the assassination as the driver of the car but I read recently he was only supposed to do that on orders from Roy Kellerman. Had Greer immediately sped away, it's doubtful Oswald could have hit JFK with his follow up shots. Unfortunately, all the agents had to make split second decisions and it is easy to second guess them, but not knowing what they actually saw and heard, I'm not ready to say whether they should have acted more quickly than they did.
John, Clint Hill did not jump off the follow-up car till after the head shot. The shot he heard running to the limo sounded different he said and matches the other witnesses bang bang testimony. it also matches the two largest blur episodes on the Z film.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rzCcs7zn/Screenshot-15-7-2026-222016-www-youtube-com.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzCcs7zn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Btg94DwH/Screenshot-15-7-2026-222148-www-youtube-com.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Btg94DwH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rzhnf9H8/Screenshot-15-7-2026-222629-www-jfk-assassination-net.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzhnf9H8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9z4ZjtM0/Screenshot-15-7-2026-222954-www-youtube-com.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9z4ZjtM0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LqcRgpzx/Screenshot-15-7-2026-223432-www-youtube-com.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqcRgpzx)
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Dear Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Skully,
BFD.
(Pardon my German)
-- Tom
PS Why was probable KGB "mole" Bruce Leonard Solie so interested in Talbot Bielefeldt?
Tom G.,
I read your description of a person of interest living at a farm owned by Solie.
The 1950 US Census listed Solie still living in Wisconsin and working in the office of a bus company. Only the Solie nuclear family seemed to be listed in the
census entry.
If you will share the location of the Solie farm and the name of the person living there who you are associating with Solie, I am interested enough to look further,
or correct me if I misunderstood what you posted.
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Tom G.,
I read your description of a person of interest living at a farm owned by Solie.
The 1950 US Census listed Solie still living in Wisconsin and working in the office of a bus company. Only the Solie nuclear family seemed to be listed in the
census entry.
If you will share the location of the Solie farm and the name of the person living there who you are associating with Solie, I am interested enough to look further,
or correct me if I misunderstood what you posted.
From WikiTree:
Bruce Leonard Solie (1917 - 1992)
Born 10 Nov 1917 in Sumner, Trempealeau, Wisconsin, United States
Died 23 Dec 1992 at age 75 in Rockville, Montgomery, Maryland, United States
In the 1940 census. the name of the hired hand was Ted Karpaski, or some-such thing.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9M1-D7D1?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AK7VL-C1H&action=view&cc=2000219&lang=en
This is the article I wrote about Solie which was rejected by Wikipedia "because not enough established authors have written about him" (LOL!), and which its subsidiary, EverybodyWiki, published without my knowledge.
https://en.everybodywiki.com/Bruce_Leonard_Solie
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From WikiTree:
Bruce Leonard Solie (1917 - 1992)
Born 10 Nov 1917 in Sumner, Trempealeau, Wisconsin, United States
Died 23 Dec 1992 at age 75 in Rockville, Montgomery, Maryland, United States
In the 1940 census. the name of the hired hand was Ted Karpaski, or some-such thing.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9M1-D7D1?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AK7VL-C1H&action=view&cc=2000219&lang=en
This is the article I wrote about Solie which was rejected by Wikipedia "because not enough established authors have written about him" (LOL!), and which its subsidiary, EverybodyWiki, published without my knowledge.
https://en.everybodywiki.com/Bruce_Leonard_Solie
Thank you.
It took at least two years until other Wikipedia editors stopped deleting this from former Gov., Gray's wiki bio. The argument was it was dismissed as original research.
I kept creating other articles until it no longer was! I just felt two candidates of Nazi grandfathers in one California recall election was one too many!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Davis
....Davis's father, an advertising manager at Time Inc. and an alcoholic, was the son of businessman William Rhodes Davis.[6]...
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It took at least two years until other Wikipedia editors stopped deleting this from former Gov., Gray's wiki bio. The argument was it was dismissed as original research.
I kept creating other articles until it no longer was! I just felt two candidates of Nazi grandfathers in one California recall election was one too many!
What does that have to do with probable KGB mole Bruce Leonard Solie, father-figure-requiring James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior?
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What does that have to do with probable KGB mole Bruce Leonard Solie, father-figure-requiring James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior?
Nothing.... just reacted to your experience with Wikipedia gatekeepers.
I believe this was the wife of the Ted you are looking for, his page does not include a bio.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/145165700/sophia-kleparski
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Nothing.... just reacted to your experience with Wikipedia gatekeepers.
I believe this was the wife of the Ted you are looking for, his page does not include a bio.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/145165700/sophia-kleparski
Good work, Thomas.
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John, Clint Hill did not jump off the follow-up car till after the head shot. The shot he heard running to the limo sounded different he said and matches the other witnesses bang bang testimony. it also matches the two largest blur episodes on the Z film.
Clint Hill was running toward the limo before the headshot. Because the limo was moving forward, there wasn't much closing speed, but he was already in motion.
Although he was told differently, the only shot he heard while running was the headshot. He said the shot had a metallic sound which indicates to me one of the sounds he heard was a fragment striking the windshield frame.
To the best of my recollection, he was telling his story at the Sixth Floor Museum but I will have to find that program to verify it.
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Clint Hill was running toward the limo before the headshot. Because the limo was moving forward, there wasn't much closing speed, but he was already in motion.
Although he was told differently, the only shot he heard while running was the headshot. He said the shot had a metallic sound which indicates to me one of the sounds he heard was a fragment striking the windshield frame.
To the best of my recollection, he was telling his story at the Sixth Floor Museum but I will have to find that program to verify it.
Sorry, but that just isn't true. You can watch both the Nix and Muchmore films. There was a shot after Z-313 that Oswald could not have fired.
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Sorry, but that just isn't true. You can watch both the Nix and Muchmore films. There was a shot after Z-313 that Oswald could not have fired.
Nonsense!
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Clint Hill was running toward the limo before the headshot. Because the limo was moving forward, there wasn't much closing speed, but he was already in motion.
Although he was told differently, the only shot he heard while running was the headshot. He said the shot had a metallic sound which indicates to me one of the sounds he heard was a fragment striking the windshield frame.
To the best of my recollection, he was telling his story at the Sixth Floor Museum but I will have to find that program to verify it.
Why no "covering fire" supporting Hill running in the direction of where at least one shot had hit, even if his fellow agents in the following "Queen Mary" had just fired into the
air, above the general direction where photos captured some of them craning their necks towards? Or, were they just too hung over from the night before?
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Why no "covering fire" supporting Hill running in the direction of where at least one shot had hit, even if his fellow agents in the following "Queen Mary" had just fired into the air, above the general direction where photos captured some of them craning their necks towards? Or, were they just too hung over from the night before?
Don't be silly, Tom-Tom.
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Don't be silly, Tom-Tom.
Do you find it interesting that Joannides took the place of Bill Nelson's wedding usher,, Philip Franklin Fendig, as CIA liason to the HSCA investigation?
Fendig's best man was Bill Nelson.... :
https://www.nytimes.com/1953/05/17/archives/miss-c-johnston-is-wed-in-capital-has-2-attendants-at-marriage-to.html
Shackley "introduces" Fendig to HSCA,
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=100555#relPageId=2
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Cloak_Gown/a3ncweUli9UC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=angleton+william+nelson&pg=PA403&printsec=frontcover
loak & Gown: Scholars in the Secret War, 1939-1961 - Page 403
books.google.com › books
Robin W. Winks · 1996
Found inside – Page 403
... William Nelson , the deputy di- rector for operations , that set out all the circumstantial evidence to make the case that Angleton was a Soviet agent . That Angleton had not spotted Philby , or having spotted him had not turned him in ...
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[...]
Dear Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Skully,
Do you find it interesting that in April of 1964, probable KGB "mole" Bruce Solie (father-figure-requiring James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior) tried to talk W. David Slawson into letting Yuri "The KGB Had Nothing To Do With Oswald In The USSR" Nosenko testify to the Warren Commission even though CIA Counterintelligence and the Soviet Russia Division were convinced he'd been a false-defector-in-place in Geneva in June 1962, sent to the CIA there to protect a mole or two or three from being uncovered by recent true defector Anatoly Golitsyn's revelations?
Do you find it interesting that KGB Major Aleksey Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA at the FBI's NYC field office) had to lamely retract his two specific "confirmations" of Nosenko's bonafide-ness when Nosenko admitted during interrogations to having lied about those two things (i.e., his now being a "Lieutenant Colonel" and his having received a "return to Moscow immediately" telegram in Geneva in February 1964)?
Do you find it interesting that Solie "cleared" Nosenko in October 1968 via a bogus polygraph exam and a specious report?
Do you find it interesting that Solie hid CIA documents from the Church Committee and the HSCA?
-- Tom
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Dear Tom "A Beautiful Mind" Skully,
Do you find it interesting that in April of 1964, probable KGB "mole" Bruce Solie (father-figure-requiring James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior) tried to talk W. David Slawson into letting Yuri "The KGB Had Nothing To Do With Oswald In The USSR" Nosenko testify to the Warren Commission even though CIA Counterintelligence and the Soviet Russia Division were convinced he'd been a false-defector-in-place in Geneva in June 1962, sent to the CIA there to protect a mole or two or three from being uncovered by recent true defector Anatoly Golitsyn's revelations?
Do you find it interesting that KGB Major Aleksey Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA at the FBI's NYC field office) had to lamely retract his two specific "confirmations" of Nosenko's bonafide-ness when Nosenko admitted during interrogations to having lied about those two things (i.e., his now being a "Lieutenant Colonel" and his having received a "return to Moscow immediately" telegram in Geneva in February 1964)?
Do you find it interesting that Solie "cleared" Nosenko in October 1968 via a bogus polygraph exam and a specious report?
Do you find it interesting that Solie hid CIA documents from the Church Committee and the HSCA?
-- Tom
Yes, to all of the above.
This fellow's name was a self-reported Stanford friend by Talbot B.
Are you famiioar with his name, it remained redacted until 2018 or 2022.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_L._Jenkins
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=223891#relPageId=1&search=Bielefeldt
WA Hyde invited Bielefeldt, Dr. Jenkins, and Sylvia and her husband to spend the evening with him.
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This fellow was a self-reported Stanford friend by Talbot Bielefeldt. Are you familiar with his name? It remained redacted until 2018 or 2022.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_L._Jenkins
WA Hyde invited Bielefeldt, Dr. Jenkins, and Sylvia and her husband to spend the evening with him.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=223891#relPageId=1&search=Bielefeldt
Do you find it suspicious that Bielefeldt notified probable KGB mole Bruce Solie that he, Hyde, and Jenkins, who had been friends at Stanford, got together for dinner in 1955?
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Do you find that suspicious that Bielefeldt notified probable KGB mole Bruce Solie that he, Hyde, and Jenkins, who had been friends at Stanford, got together for dinner in 1955?
I recall you noticed that Bielefeldt had been subjected to some internal investigation. I can't give you a qualified answer unless I learn if he had failed
to make a similar disclosure and was avoiding risking Solie comning toi him again, instead of Bielefeldt heading it off.
I've read "Pete's" wiki bio and one or four others have your prints all over them! Why did Murphy's son change his last name to Mor ?
Loads slowly :
https://archive.is/cHfpm#selection-1367.139-1367.150 Or,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/david-murphy-soviet-ops-chief-at-cia-dies/2014/09/09/0e1b572e-377f-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html
....Survivors include four children from his first marriage,
son, Vincent Mor
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I can't give you a qualified answer.
Okay then, how about an unqualified answer?
I've read "Pete" Bagley's Wikipedia biography and four others that have your prints all over them!
Care to try to refute any of them?
Caveat: The articles on Bagley and Solie are the only ones I wrote. To see the edits I made in the others, click on "View History" and look for my username --"Was Kisevalter Nash?"
Why did CIA officer David E. Murphy's son, Vincent, change his last name to Mor?
Beats the heck out of me, Tom-Tom. The WaPo obituary says Vincent was one of the four children he had with his first of three wives, White Russia emigre Maria Escovy.
Maybe they adopted him, or maybe Maria had him before she married Murphy?
Maybe he found out who his real father was and changed his name to his?
Maybe his surname was always "Mor"?
Either that, or maybe Jimmy DiEugenio or someone convinced him that Murphy was the evil, evil, evil mastermind of the JFK assassination, and he changed his name to "Mor" to disassociate himself from that evil, evil man, Murphy!
By the way, did you know that on 29 June 1964, father-figure-requiring James Angleton told KGB true defector Anatoly Golitsyn -- whom Angleton and Murphy were trying to get to resume working with (probable mole) Bruce Solie -- and Murphy and Raymond Rocca (gasp . . .whose daughter married Bagley's son!!!!!) that "Bruce's office is the only one that I'm not afraid is penetrated by the KGB"?
LOL!
The WaPo obituary of Murphy says Yuri Nosenko was "treated harshly."
Question: Do you think false-defector-in-place-in-Geneva-in-June-1962 / false (or perhaps rogue) physical defector to the U.S. in February 1964, Major I mean Lt. Col. I mean Captain Yuri Nosenko was tortured by evil, evil Murphy, evil, evil Bagley, and their evil, evil "goons"?
PS Regarding your first link, this is what I get:
Hmmm… can't reach this page
It looks like the webpage at https://archive.is/cHfpm#selection-1367.139-1367.150 might be having issues, or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
ERR_ADDRESS_INVALID