JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on July 09, 2026, 06:03:29 PM
-
Some folks seem to believe that the dent in the neck of one of the spent Carcano cartridges found on the sixth floor of the TSBD indicates that it couldn’t have been fired on 11/22/63. However, there is a very reasonable explanation for the dent that has credible supporting evidence and is consistent with that cartridge being one of the three shots believed to have been fired on 11/22/63. Let’s start with an animated GIF showing slow-motion of a shell being ejected from a lever action rifle. You can see the ejected shell spin end for end and the neck end of the cartridge hit the rifle and bounce off. It appears to me that the neck end of the spent cartridge is flattened a bit by the impact.
(https://i.vgy.me/zBk9Da.gif)
Here is a still image from that GIF showing what appears to be a somewhat flattened neck.
(https://i.vgy.me/E6PyBf.jpg)
I had previously posted in another thread a link to a video of a Carcano M91/38 ejecting a spent cartridge that also bounced off of the rifle at the bridge to the rear of the ejection port. Here is a still frame from that video showing the cartridge just after it bounced off the rifle.
(https://i.vgy.me/7VCaHG.png)
What we cannot see in the Carcano image above is what that rear bridge looks like from the rear angle. Here’s an image from Nova’s Cold Case JFK that clearly shows the sharp edges and/or corners that could have made the dent in CE543:
(https://i.vgy.me/tvxnuq.jpg)
The FBI duplicated the dented cartridge in their tests by cycling the Carcano’s bolt very quickly and forcefully in an effort to simulate someone trying to fire consecutive shots a quickly as possible.
-
Some folks seem to believe that the dent in the neck of one of the spent Carcano cartridges found on the sixth floor of the TSBD indicates that it couldn’t have been fired on 11/22/63. However, there is a very reasonable explanation for the dent that has credible supporting evidence and is consistent with that cartridge being one of the three shots believed to have been fired on 11/22/63. Let’s start with an animated GIF showing slow-motion of a shell being ejected from a lever action rifle. You can see the ejected shell spin end for end and the neck end of the cartridge hit the rifle and bounce off. It appears to me that the neck end of the spent cartridge is flattened a bit by the impact.
(https://i.vgy.me/zBk9Da.gif)
Here is a still image from that GIF showing what appears to be a somewhat flattened neck.
(https://i.vgy.me/E6PyBf.jpg)
I had previously posted in another thread a link to a video of a Carcano M91/38 ejecting a spent cartridge that also bounced off of the rifle at the bridge to the rear of the ejection port. Here is a still frame from that video showing the cartridge just after it bounced off the rifle.
(https://i.vgy.me/7VCaHG.png)
What we cannot see in the Carcano image above is what that rear bridge looks like from the rear angle. Here’s an image from Nova’s Cold Case JFK that clearly shows the sharp edges and/or corners that could have made the dent in CE543:
(https://i.vgy.me/tvxnuq.jpg)
The FBI duplicated the dented cartridge in their tests by cycling the Carcano’s bolt very quickly and forcefully in an effort to simulate someone trying to fire consecutive shots a quickly as possible.
By raising the issue of the dented shell, the CTs demonstrate how really, really bad they are at weighing evidence. To them, the presence of a dented shell in the sniper's nest negates all the other forensic evidence that points to Oswald as the shooter. That dented shell gives them the excuse to dismiss the fact that all three of the spent shells were fired by the rifle that was found elsewhere on the 6th floor. That rifle was connected to Oswald in four different ways. By the paper trail indicating he purchased the rifle via mail order. He was photographed with the rifle. His palm print was on that rifle. The fibers on the butt plate of the rifle matched the shirt Oswald was wearing that day. Furthermore, a bag was found next to the sniper's nest that had Oswald's palm and fingerprint on the bottom of the bag and fibers matching the blanket Oswald used to store the rifle. Oswald's fingerprints were found on top of the boxes that were stacked by the window to form a rifle rest. All of this evidence points unmistakably to Oswald as the assassin. But that is not the answer the CTs want. In fact, they give no indication they are after any answers at all. What they really want are excuses to dismiss all that damning evidence that Oswald was they assassin. If they even respond to this post, we can count on them providing more excuses for each of the items I've pointed to as evidence of Oswald's guilt. They really have never shown an interest in figuring out who killed JFK. That just want excuses to deny it was Oswald.
-
By raising the issue of the dented shell, the CTs demonstrate how really, really bad they are at weighing evidence. To them, the presence of a dented shell in the sniper's nest negates all the other forensic evidence that points to Oswald as the shooter. That dented shell gives them the excuse to dismiss the fact that all three of the spent shells were fired by the rifle that was found elsewhere on the 6th floor. That rifle was connected to Oswald in four different ways. By the paper trail indicating he purchased the rifle via mail order. He was photographed with the rifle. His palm print was on that rifle. The fibers on the butt plate of the rifle matched the shirt Oswald was wearing that day. Furthermore, a bag was found next to the sniper's nest that had Oswald's palm and fingerprint on the bottom of the bag and fibers matching the blanket Oswald used to store the rifle. Oswald's fingerprints were found on top of the boxes that were stacked by the window to form a rifle rest. All of this evidence points unmistakably to Oswald as the assassin. But that is not the answer the CTs want. In fact, they give no indication they are after any answers at all. What they really want are excuses to dismiss all that damning evidence that Oswald was they assassin. If they even respond to this post, we can count on them providing more excuses for each of the items I've pointed to as evidence of Oswald's guilt. They really have never shown an interest in figuring out who killed JFK. That just want excuses to deny it was Oswald.
So many people were obviously involved in planting evidence against the psychologically disturbed self-described Marxist former Marine sharpshooter that it HAD to be the Deep State or Steve Bannon's Deep State-Administrative State that did it!!!
-
Some folks seem to believe that the dent in the neck of one of the spent Carcano cartridges found on the sixth floor of the TSBD indicates that it couldn’t have been fired on 11/22/63. However, there is a very reasonable explanation for the dent that has credible supporting evidence and is consistent with that cartridge being one of the three shots believed to have been fired on 11/22/63. Let’s start with an animated GIF showing slow-motion of a shell being ejected from a lever action rifle. You can see the ejected shell spin end for end and the neck end of the cartridge hit the rifle and bounce off. It appears to me that the neck end of the spent cartridge is flattened a bit by the impact.
(https://i.vgy.me/zBk9Da.gif)
Here is a still image from that GIF showing what appears to be a somewhat flattened neck.
(https://i.vgy.me/E6PyBf.jpg)
I had previously posted in another thread a link to a video of a Carcano M91/38 ejecting a spent cartridge that also bounced off of the rifle at the bridge to the rear of the ejection port. Here is a still frame from that video showing the cartridge just after it bounced off the rifle.
(https://i.vgy.me/7VCaHG.png)
What we cannot see in the Carcano image above is what that rear bridge looks like from the rear angle. Here’s an image from Nova’s Cold Case JFK that clearly shows the sharp edges and/or corners that could have made the dent in CE543:
(https://i.vgy.me/tvxnuq.jpg)
The FBI duplicated the dented cartridge in their tests by cycling the Carcano’s bolt very quickly and forcefully in an effort to simulate someone trying to fire consecutive shots a quickly as possible.
Based on the above, If the rifle was hanging out of the TSBD Window when the alleged 3 shots were fired, the ejected hulls should have clipped the 1/2 open widow behind it. If the rifle was Not hanging out of the window, the smell of gunpowder would Not have been dispelled outward into Dealey Plaza. Which way do You want it?
-
Some folks seem to believe that the dent in the neck of one of the spent Carcano cartridges found on the sixth floor of the TSBD indicates that it couldn’t have been fired on 11/22/63. However, there is a very reasonable explanation for the dent that has credible supporting evidence and is consistent with that cartridge being one of the three shots believed to have been fired on 11/22/63. Let’s start with an animated GIF showing slow-motion of a shell being ejected from a lever action rifle. You can see the ejected shell spin end for end and the neck end of the cartridge hit the rifle and bounce off. It appears to me that the neck end of the spent cartridge is flattened a bit by the impact.
(https://i.vgy.me/zBk9Da.gif)
Here is a still image from that GIF showing what appears to be a somewhat flattened neck.
I had previously posted in another thread a link to a video of a Carcano M91/38 ejecting a spent cartridge that also bounced off of the rifle at the bridge to the rear of the ejection port. Here is a still frame from that video showing the cartridge just after it bounced off the rifle.
What we cannot see in the Carcano image above is what that rear bridge looks like from the rear angle. Here’s an image from Nova’s Cold Case JFK that clearly shows the sharp edges and/or corners that could have made the dent in CE543:
The FBI duplicated the dented cartridge in their tests by cycling the Carcano’s bolt very quickly and forcefully in an effort to simulate someone trying to fire consecutive shots a quickly as possible.
Hi Charles. The dented casing could have also been the result of a short cycle, which occurs when the shooter is operating the bolt in a very hurried fashion. Basically, the casing does not get fully ejected and instead is caught and squeezed by the operation of the bolt in preparation for the next shot. The shooter would then be forced to operate the bolt a 2nd time to finally eject the spent (and now dented) casing.
I'm not saying I adhere to this theory, but it is something to consider.
-
By raising the issue of the dented shell, the CTs demonstrate how really, really bad they are at weighing evidence. To them, the presence of a dented shell in the sniper's nest negates all the other forensic evidence that points to Oswald as the shooter. That dented shell gives them the excuse to dismiss the fact that all three of the spent shells were fired by the rifle that was found elsewhere on the 6th floor. That rifle was connected to Oswald in four different ways. By the paper trail indicating he purchased the rifle via mail order. He was photographed with the rifle. His palm print was on that rifle. The fibers on the butt plate of the rifle matched the shirt Oswald was wearing that day. Furthermore, a bag was found next to the sniper's nest that had Oswald's palm and fingerprint on the bottom of the bag and fibers matching the blanket Oswald used to store the rifle. Oswald's fingerprints were found on top of the boxes that were stacked by the window to form a rifle rest. All of this evidence points unmistakably to Oswald as the assassin. But that is not the answer the CTs want. In fact, they give no indication they are after any answers at all. What they really want are excuses to dismiss all that damning evidence that Oswald was they assassin. If they even respond to this post, we can count on them providing more excuses for each of the items I've pointed to as evidence of Oswald's guilt. They really have never shown an interest in figuring out who killed JFK. That just want excuses to deny it was Oswald.
The fibers on the butt plate of the rifle matched the shirt Oswald was wearing that day.
To be clear, the tuft of fibers was found in the crevice between the metal butt plate and the wooden stock.
Other than that, your point is entirely valid.
-
Based on the above, If the rifle was hanging out of the TSBD Window when the alleged 3 shots were fired, the ejected hulls should have clipped the 1/2 open widow behind it. If the rifle was Not hanging out of the window, the smell of gunpowder would Not have been dispelled outward into Dealey Plaza. Which way do You want it?
Only the muzzle of the rifle needed to be extended out the window to discharge the gunpowder residue outside the building. With Oswald using the stacked boxes to steady his aim, the Mannlicher firing mechanism would have been inside the building and the shells would eject as they did. It would create a very awkward shooting position if Oswald had extended the firing mechanism outside the window. Did you really need that explained to you?
-
Hi Charles. The dented casing could have also been the result of a short cycle, which occurs when the shooter is operating the bolt in a very hurried fashion. Basically, the casing does not get fully ejected and instead is caught and squeezed by the operation of the bolt in preparation for the next shot. The shooter would then be forced to operate the bolt a 2nd time to finally eject the spent (and now dented) casing.
I'm not saying I adhere to this theory, but it is something to consider.
Thanks Bill, yes that does appear to be another possibility. However I would expect the dent to be different with respect to the end (or top edge if you will) of the cartridge if that were the case. Looking at a photo of CE 543, we can see the top edge appears to have no damage. The dent appears to have come from the side. I could be wrong, but if a short-cycle were the cause then I would expect the top edge to show some sign of the cartridge being squeezed. Maybe some curling or other damage. Here’s a photo of CE 543:
(https://i.vgy.me/GSM7tx.jpg)
-
It is sad to see WC defenders still posting claims that have long since been soundly refuted.
No, the FBI did not duplicate the dent on CE 543 in any shell that was used to actually fire a bullet. No test has ever duplicated that dent in a shell that fired a bullet. CE 543 could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination.
This issue has been settled for years. Even some lone-gunman theorists have acknowledged that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the assassination. All those who believe in the mortal-error theory of the assassination acknowledge that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the shooting. But, most WC defenders don't want to admit this fact about CE 543 because it raises serious questions about their version of the shooting.
I would refer interested readers to my online article
"The Dented Bullet Shell: Hard Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination." (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ihue8a0GmN_Ptl38bPjpu1F99nqU0Z6f/view?usp=sharing)
I explore this issue in even more detail in chapter 17 of my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy.
Here is some of what Dr. Josiah Thompson says about the dented shell, CE 543, in his 2020 book Last Second in Dallas:
Things got really interesting when we photographed the three cartridge cases found near the corner window of the sixth floor of the depository and the live round found in the rifle.
I noticed something never mentioned in all the expert testimony or shown in any of the Warren Commission photographs. If you laid out the three cartridges alongside the live round, you could see a dent on the shoulders of two of the cases where they abutted the chamber of the rifle. The live round showed a similar but much less prominent mark. In contrast, the third cartridge case, designated CE 543, had no dent on its shoulder but a sharp dent in its lip. In its present form, this cartridge would not accept a projectile. . . .
According to Hoover, there was no mark like this on CE 543, only the magazine follower mark and the three strange marks mentioned by Nicol.
But the magazine follower mark could not have been caused on November 22 because that mark is caused by a lever under spring tension at the bottom of the magazine that presses against only the last round in the clip. Since the live round found in the rifle was the bottom round in the clip on November 22, it had its own follower mark. Even more important, Hoover’s letter mentioned that the three marks described by Nicol were absent not only from the other cartridge cases and the live round but also from the many cartridge cases produced in test firings of Oswald’s rifle. That clinched it: the cartridge case with the dented lip also had marks from a second Carcano, not Oswald’s. (Last Second in Dallas, pp. 178-179, 184-185)
In their book JFK Case Not Closed, Dave O'Brien and Johnny Cairns note some of the evidence that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the assassination:
The only marks that link CE 543 to the Carcano were produced by the magazine follower. These marks are caused by the pressure of the magazine follower on the last round in the clip, which pushes the remaining rounds in the clip upwards as their predecessors are chambered and then ejected from the rifle.
When the final round is chambered, the clip falls past the magazine follower and drops out of the bottom of the magazine well. While other cases had similar marks, the point is that these marks could not have been caused by the Carcano's magazine follower on the day of the assassination as the last round in the clip (CE 141) was unfired and still chambered in the rifle when it was found. . . .
CE 543 lacks a characteristic displayed by all the other cartridge cases (CE 544, CE 545 and CE 577) that have been chambered in the Carcano - a distinct impression along one side. Even CE 141 (the live round), showed a similar, if less pronounced, impression. . . .
If CE 543 is supposed to have been fired in the Carcano, how could it be missing this distinct impression? (JFK Case Not Closed, pp. 141-145)
-
It is sad to see WC defenders still posting claims that have long since been soundly refuted.
No, the FBI did not duplicate the dent on CE 543 in any shell that was used to actually fire a bullet. No test has ever duplicated that dent in a shell that fired a bullet. CE 543 could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination.
This issue has been settled for years. Even some lone-gunman theorists have acknowledged that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the assassination. All those who believe in the mortal-error theory of the assassination acknowledge that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the shooting. But, most WC defenders don't want to admit this fact about CE 543 because it raises serious questions about their version of the shooting.
I would refer interested readers to my online article
"The Dented Bullet Shell: Hard Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination." (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ihue8a0GmN_Ptl38bPjpu1F99nqU0Z6f/view?usp=sharing)
I explore this issue in even more detail in chapter 17 of my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy.
Here is some of what Dr. Josiah Thompson says about the dented shell, CE 543, in his 2020 book Last Second in Dallas:
Things got really interesting when we photographed the three cartridge cases found near the corner window of the sixth floor of the depository and the live round found in the rifle.
I noticed something never mentioned in all the expert testimony or shown in any of the Warren Commission photographs. If you laid out the three cartridges alongside the live round, you could see a dent on the shoulders of two of the cases where they abutted the chamber of the rifle. The live round showed a similar but much less prominent mark. In contrast, the third cartridge case, designated CE 543, had no dent on its shoulder but a sharp dent in its lip. In its present form, this cartridge would not accept a projectile. . . .
According to Hoover, there was no mark like this on CE 543, only the magazine follower mark and the three strange marks mentioned by Nicol.
But the magazine follower mark could not have been caused on November 22 because that mark is caused by a lever under spring tension at the bottom of the magazine that presses against only the last round in the clip. Since the live round found in the rifle was the bottom round in the clip on November 22, it had its own follower mark. Even more important, Hoover’s letter mentioned that the three marks described by Nicol were absent not only from the other cartridge cases and the live round but also from the many cartridge cases produced in test firings of Oswald’s rifle. That clinched it: the cartridge case with the dented lip also had marks from a second Carcano, not Oswald’s. (Last Second in Dallas, pp. 178-179, 184-185)
In their book JFK Case Not Closed, Dave O'Brien and Johnny Cairns note some of the evidence that CE 543 could not have fired a bullet during the assassination:
The only marks that link CE 543 to the Carcano were produced by the magazine follower. These marks are caused by the pressure of the magazine follower on the last round in the clip, which pushes the remaining rounds in the clip upwards as their predecessors are chambered and then ejected from the rifle.
When the final round is chambered, the clip falls past the magazine follower and drops out of the bottom of the magazine well. While other cases had similar marks, the point is that these marks could not have been caused by the Carcano's magazine follower on the day of the assassination as the last round in the clip (CE 141) was unfired and still chambered in the rifle when it was found. . . .
CE 543 lacks a characteristic displayed by all the other cartridge cases (CE 544, CE 545 and CE 577) that have been chambered in the Carcano - a distinct impression along one side. Even CE 141 (the live round), showed a similar, if less pronounced, impression. . . .
If CE 543 is supposed to have been fired in the Carcano, how could it be missing this distinct impression? (JFK Case Not Closed, pp. 141-145)
My mistake, it was the HSCA experts who duplicated the dent.
There is no Warren Commission testimony stating that the FBI laboratory duplicated the dent in Commission Exhibit 543 (CE 543).
The original Warren Commission testimony regarding the dent in CE 543—which is one of the three cartridge cases found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository—comes from FBI firearms expert Robert A. Frazier.
The Actual Testimony (Volume III)When Frazier testified before the Commission, he explained that the dented mouth of the cartridge was a random occurrence that happens during the mechanics of loading or firing, rather than an intentional replication or a permanent defect of the rifle:
Mr. Eisenberg: “Mr. Frazier, I notice that the lip of CE 543 is dented in. Can you tell us how that dent might have occurred?”Mr. Frazier: “Yes, sir. This dent occurs when the cartridge is fired, or during the loading cycle, when the cartridge is forced into the chamber and the side of the case strikes the edge of the chamber, or upon ejection when the cartridge case is thrown out of the rifle and strikes the side of the receiver or the scope mount, or some outside object. It is a very common thing to find dented cartridge cases among fired cases, and it does not indicate any malfunction of the weapon, nor does it affect the firing of the cartridge.”— Warren Commission Hearings, Volume III, p. 433
Where the "Duplicate" Idea Comes From:
The concept of "duplicating" the dent originated later during the 1978 House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) investigation.When HSCA ballistics experts test-fired Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to examine the mechanics of the weapon, one of their four test-fired cartridges naturally duplicated the exact same type of neck dent seen on CE 543.This mechanical duplication proved to the committee that the dent on the original evidence shell was caused naturally by the rapid firing and ejection sequence of that specific rifle, rather than being damaged afterward or planted.
The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) Volume VII report, specifically the Firearms Panel Report, details that the dented cartridge case (CE 543) was a common artifact of the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle's normal ejection mechanism, not evidence of tampering. The panel concluded that test-firings (T-1 to T-4) resulted in similar, consistent dents, validating earlier FBI testimony. For more details, visit History Matters Archive.