JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: John Corbett on June 20, 2026, 02:52:45 AM
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I was reading this story online and I found one paragraph particularly interesting:
"The problem wasn't simply that people disliked the verdict. The problem was that witness accounts didn't always match. Some statements changed over time. Certain details conflicted with physical evidence. Different people seemed to remember the night differently. The more reporters examined the story, the less straightforward it appeared."
Sound familiar. We've all seen the same issues raised over and over again in this forum. Only this story wasn't about the JFKA. It was about the suicide of actor George Reeves, TV's Superman in 1959. Despite this being an open and shut case of suicide, some people didn't want to accept the obvious answer. They continued to search for an alternate explanation and conspiracy theories grew out of it. The public lost interest in this story a long time ago but for many years, people interested in the case refused to believe it was a simple a case as the investigators determined. The convinced themselves there had to be more to it, just as JFKA CTs have done for decades.
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I was reading this story online and I found one paragraph particularly interesting:
"The problem wasn't simply that people disliked the verdict. The problem was that witness accounts didn't always match. Some statements changed over time. Certain details conflicted with physical evidence. Different people seemed to remember the night differently. The more reporters examined the story, the less straightforward it appeared."
Sound familiar. We've all seen the same issues raised over and over again in this forum. Only this story wasn't about the JFKA. It was about the suicide of actor George Reeves, TV's Superman in 1959. Despite this being an open and shut case of suicide, some people didn't want to accept the obvious answer. They continued to search for an alternate explanation and conspiracy theories grew out of it. The public lost interest in this story a long time ago but for many years, people interested in the case refused to believe it was a simple a case as the investigators determined. The convinced themselves there had to be more to it, just as JFKA CTs have done for decades.
I have found that people often times just believe what they want to believe despite what the evidence shows. This happens in all walks of life, not just investigations of crimes, suicides, etc. I think the phenomenon is due mostly to the fact that a lot of folks base their beliefs on their “feelings” (emotions), while others tend to be more rational.
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You need to read more about Superman. It may have been a suicide, but it definitely was NOT an "open and shut case of suicide." Both unfortunate accident and homicide were distinct possibilities. Ditto with Marilyn Monroe, although the supposed JFK/RFK/UFO connections are highly unlikely.
Pretty good summary of the Reeves mystery from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2006/nov/18/features.weekend1
The Good Old Days:
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See what I mean.
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I was reading this story online and I found one paragraph particularly interesting:
"The problem wasn't simply that people disliked the verdict. The problem was that witness accounts didn't always match. Some statements changed over time. Certain details conflicted with physical evidence. Different people seemed to remember the night differently. The more reporters examined the story, the less straightforward it appeared."
Sound familiar. We've all seen the same issues raised over and over again in this forum. Only this story wasn't about the JFKA. It was about the suicide of actor George Reeves, TV's Superman in 1959. Despite this being an open and shut case of suicide, some people didn't want to accept the obvious answer. They continued to search for an alternate explanation and conspiracy theories grew out of it. The public lost interest in this story a long time ago but for many years, people interested in the case refused to believe it was a simple a case as the investigators determined. The convinced themselves there had to be more to it, just as JFKA CTs have done for decades.
This is silly. There was no forensic, photographic, and ballistics evidence that disproved the suicide explanation in the George Reeves case, whereas there is plenty of such evidence in the JFK case. That's part of the reason that the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded at the end of their extensive two-year investigation that JFK was killed by a conspiracy, that two gunmen were involved, that four shots were fired, that one of the shots came from the grassy knoll, that Jack Ruby had extensive Mafia ties, that there was credible evidence that anti-Castro Cubans were trying to frame Oswald for the assassination weeks before the shooting, that Ruby had help getting into the police basement to shoot Oswald, that Ruby lied about how he entered the basement and why he shot Oswald, that someone was moving boxes around in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting when Oswald could not have been there, and that the eyewitness accounts of shots from grassy knoll were credible, among other findings.
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This is silly. There was no forensic, photographic, and ballistics evidence that disproved the suicide explanation in the George Reeves case, whereas there is plenty of such evidence in the JFK case.
Only in your head.
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Well, hell, let's beat this to death. Both MTG and John C. are obviously uninformed about the Reeves case. Actually, in its own little way, it's practically a mini-JFKA. Truly, read the article in The Guardian and tell me this was an "open and shut suicide." Ironically, John C. could scarcely have picked a better story to illustrate precisely the opposite of the point he thought he was making.
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Well, hell, let's beat this to death. Both MTG and John C. are obviously uninformed about the Reeves case. Actually, in its own little way, it's practically a mini-JFKA. Truly, read the article in The Guardian and tell me this was an "open and shut suicide." Ironically, John C. could scarcely have picked a better story to illustrate precisely the opposite of the point he thought he was making.
Sorry, but this story perfectly illustrates the point. People who want something other than a straight forward explanation will seize on every little anomaly to claim things aren't what they seem. Everyone in the house that night had been drinking heavily, including Reeves. He went upstairs and a short time later, the people downstairs heard the gunshot. They immediately went upstairs and found Reeves lying on the bed with a gun at his feet. There was no evidence to indicate this was anything but a suicide. Not surprisingly, the inebriated witnesses didn't recall the evening in the same way but that's hardly an indication of anything but that this was a suicide. It's people trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
The Guardian article made some silly claims. One was that the $2500 a week Reevers made for 13 weeks wasn't much to live on for a whole year. In 1953, you could live large on $32,500 a year. That equates to over $400K in today's money. The show ran for six seasons so Reeves should have had a good chunk of change saved up. Other than he Superman series, Reeves had not exactly been an accomplished actor. He did have minor roles in two of the biggest movies of all time, Gone With the Wind and From Here to Eternity. He did a number of guest roles on other TV programs during the 1950s and was a semi-regular performer on the Kraft Theater, but producers weren't exactly beating down his door to offer him work. His last credited role other than Superman was a guest spot on I Love Lucy in 1957.
Nobody will know why Reeves took his own life. There are lots of reasons people resort to suicide and they aren't always about career failures or fractured relationships although either of these could have played role in Reeves decision. We'll never know.
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Sorry, but this story perfectly illustrates the point. People who want something other than a straight forward explanation will seize on every little anomaly to claim things aren't what they seem. Everyone in the house that night had been drinking heavily, including Reeves. He went upstairs and a short time later, the people downstairs heard the gunshot. They immediately went upstairs and found Reeves lying on the bed with a gun at his feet. There was no evidence to indicate this was anything but a suicide. Not surprisingly, the inebriated witnesses didn't recall the evening in the same way but that's hardly an indication of anything but that this was a suicide. It's people trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
The Guardian article made some silly claims. One was that the $2500 a week Reevers made for 13 weeks wasn't much to live on for a whole year. In 1953, you could live large on $32,500 a year. That equates to over $400K in today's money. The show ran for six seasons so Reeves should have had a good chunk of change saved up. Other than he Superman series, Reeves had not exactly been an accomplished actor. He did have minor roles in two of the biggest movies of all time, Gone With the Wind and From Here to Eternity. He did a number of guest roles on other TV programs during the 1950s and was a semi-regular performer on the Kraft Theater, but producers weren't exactly beating down his door to offer him work. His last credited role other than Superman was a guest spot on I Love Lucy in 1957.
Nobody will know why Reeves took his own life. There are lots of reasons people resort to suicide and they aren't always about career failures or fractured relationships although either of these could have played role in Reeves decision. We'll never know.
Now you know why John C. is an LN zealot. The entire world is black and white with no nuances. No wonder he and MTG go at it - they are peas in a pod. Read The Guardian article for yourself and see if it sounds open-and-shut to you.
The article doesn't suggest Reeves had money problems. Yes, at the peak of popularity of Superman, he was making the equivalent of $400K today - not exactly Milton Berle, I guarantee you. He had ongoing salary beefs with the production company. The point was that he was limited in his ability to work on other projects and was pretty solidly typecast by playing Superman and thus was unable to leverage his popularity into serious money.
The coroner's autopsy took place only after the corpse had been thoroughly washed. It failed to test for powder traces on Reeves' hand and, even though the top of Reeves' skull was removed, no one checked the head wound for gunpowder traces, which would have been present if he'd shot himself at close range. Nothing explained the bruises on the corpse's face and chest. Reeves showed no signs of a suicidal demeanour, left no note and died naked - extremely unusual for a suicide.
Other mysterious bullet holes were found in the house. Two were in the floor, with one bullet lodged in the wall of the downstairs living room. Lemmon claimed they'd got there after she fired the gun in an argument with Reeves. Lemmon's volatile nature and Vesuvian temper tantrums have long made her a prime suspect in projected murder scenarios, but here again there is no satisfactory evidence. She did however claim, 30 years later to a young reporter when she was in her declining years in New York, that Bliss had concocted her step-by-step "predictions" of Reeves' suicide. Her subsequent flight from the law is as readily explained by what was already known of her routinely scandalous behaviour as by any imponderable motive she may have had for bumping off Superman. Still, we might plausibly picture some stupid drunken argument over the gun, and a fatal, albeit accidental discharge. The weapon, however, was too recently oiled to retain fingerprints, hers or his.
Reeves also had his new girlfriend, Leonore - a piece of work, to be sure, but lots of fun - and a holiday, if not a "honeymoon", had been arranged and was eagerly anticipated. He had been drinking heavily on the night he died, but he had the constitution of an elephant: drink never seemed to affect him anyway. The shell-casing found beneath his body suggested certain realities of ballistics not reconcilable with a verdict of suicide.
Hmmm ... sound "just a bit" like any other case you can think of? Maybe it's just me.
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Now you know why John C. is an LN zealot. The entire world is black and white with no nuances. No wonder he and MTG go at it - they are peas in a pod. Read The Guardian article for yourself and see if it sounds open-and-shut to you.
Yes, the world is black and white. There is only one truth. It's not a multiple-choice exercise. You seem to operate under the premise that there can be alternate realities.
The article doesn't suggest Reeves had money problems. Yes, at the peak of popularity of Superman, he was making the equivalent of $400K today - not exactly Milton Berle, I guarantee you. He had ongoing salary beefs with the production company. The point was that he was limited in his ability to work on other projects and was pretty solidly typecast by playing Superman and thus was unable to leverage his popularity into serious money.
A very common practice in those days. Clint Walker walked away from the hit show Cheyene because Warner Bros. wouldn't let him make extra money by doing public appearances as his TV character. During his absence while WB negotiated with Walker, they launched two replacement series, Sugarfoot and Bronco which alternated each week. When Walker returned, the three shows became part of a trilogy titled the Cheyene Hour although only the original series lasted for long. Fess Parker negotiated a deal when working on Daniel Boone in which he worked for far less money per episode than most stars in order to receive a share of the profits. When the studio tried to screw him over with creative accounting, he took them to court. James Garner had a similar experience on the Rockford Files. The point is the studios were always in a battle with their stars over money. Reeves was no exception.
The coroner's autopsy took place only after the corpse had been thoroughly washed. It failed to test for powder traces on Reeves' hand and, even though the top of Reeves' skull was removed, no one checked the head wound for gunpowder traces, which would have been present if he'd shot himself at close range. Nothing explained the bruises on the corpse's face and chest. Reeves showed no signs of a suicidal demeanour, left no note and died naked - extremely unusual for a suicide.
Is there a rule book those who commit suicide are supposed to follow? What are the consequences if they break the rules?
Other mysterious bullet holes were found in the house. Two were in the floor, with one bullet lodged in the wall of the downstairs living room. Lemmon claimed they'd got there after she fired the gun in an argument with Reeves. Lemmon's volatile nature and Vesuvian temper tantrums have long made her a prime suspect in projected murder scenarios, but here again there is no satisfactory evidence. She did however claim, 30 years later to a young reporter when she was in her declining years in New York, that Bliss had concocted her step-by-step "predictions" of Reeves' suicide. Her subsequent flight from the law is as readily explained by what was already known of her routinely scandalous behaviour as by any imponderable motive she may have had for bumping off Superman. Still, we might plausibly picture some stupid drunken argument over the gun, and a fatal, albeit accidental discharge. The weapon, however, was too recently oiled to retain fingerprints, hers or his.
Isn't it fun to speculate when you don't have any evidence this was anything more than a suicide. Similar to JFK conspiracies. They like to point a finger of suspicion at people who might have had a motive to kill JFK but for which there is zero evidence those people acted on those motives.
Reeves also had his new girlfriend, Leonore - a piece of work, to be sure, but lots of fun - and a holiday, if not a "honeymoon", had been arranged and was eagerly anticipated. He had been drinking heavily on the night he died, but he had the constitution of an elephant: drink never seemed to affect him anyway. The shell-casing found beneath his body suggested certain realities of ballistics not reconcilable with a verdict of suicide.
This one was debunked a long time ago. It was shown that when a semi-auto is placed to the temple and fired, the casing would eject behind the shooter. Reeves simply fell on top of that shell as collapsed rearward. I'm guessing it was about 40 years ago I saw that one put to bed. I'm wondering how the shell casing under the body could be reconciled with someone else pulling the trigger.
Hmmm ... sound "just a bit" like any other case you can think of? Maybe it's just me.
It sounds a lot like CT conspiracies. All sizzle. No steak.