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The JFK Assassination - Genaral Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Duncan MacRae on May 26, 2026, 02:54:23 PM

Title: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Duncan MacRae on May 26, 2026, 02:54:23 PM
Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane

Lee Edward Bowers Jr. (January 12, 1925 – August 9, 1966)
On August 9, 1966, Lee Edward Bowers Jr. died at age 41 in a single-car accident near Midlothian, Texas, after his car veered off the road. Because of his unique vantage point and testimony, his sudden death fueled numerous JFK assassination conspiracy theories, with allegations that he was purposely "silenced"


Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 26, 2026, 04:02:10 PM
I can't say I was wildly impressed by this short book, but she is a former officer and did attempt an investigation of the accident:

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Assassination-Eyewitness-Conspiracy-Bowers/dp/1480803359

This site, with the unpromising name of "Conspiracy Dossiers," has some photos of the supposed crash site, and some reasonably intelligent discussion:

https://conspiracydossiers.com/2024/04/22/lee-bowers/

Yes, he was a fairly important figure in the JFKA. Yes, his one-vehicle accident three years later was odd. Any connection? Highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Jarrett Smith on May 26, 2026, 04:10:31 PM
Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane

Lee Edward Bowers Jr. (January 12, 1925 – August 9, 1966)
On August 9, 1966, Lee Edward Bowers Jr. died at age 41 in a single-car accident near Midlothian, Texas, after his car veered off the road. Because of his unique vantage point and testimony, his sudden death fueled numerous JFK assassination conspiracy theories, with allegations that he was purposely "silenced"



Why would anyone "silence" Bowers after giving his testimony? His sequence of the shots Bang......Bang Bang proves Oswald couldn't have fired that fast.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: John Corbett on May 26, 2026, 04:27:46 PM
Why would anyone "silence" Bowers after giving his testimony? His sequence of the shots Bang......Bang Bang proves Oswald couldn't have fired that fast.

It proves no such thing. A single shot can produce multiple sounds which could easily be mistaken for a separate shot. There is no forensic evidence of a second gunman. No eyewitnesses to a second gunman. No wounds which were caused by shots from any location other than the TSBD. In short, zero credible evidence of a second gunman.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 26, 2026, 04:53:26 PM

  To me, the importance of the Lee Bowers WC Testimony is his detailing seeing 2 Men  on the Knoll. 1 man wearing "...a plaid shirt or plaid coat or plaid jacket".  The 2nd man Bowers described as wearing a, "...WHITE SHIRT".  The NIX FILM shows a man wearing a man wearing a WHITE SHIRT running up The Steps. NONE of the 3 men standing at the bottom of The Steps on Willis 5, Moorman Photo, or Muchmore Film was wearing a WHITE SHIRT. Where did this WHITE SHIRT wearing man come from on the NIX FILM? The Original NIX FILM has been missing for decades.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: John Corbett on May 26, 2026, 07:30:29 PM
I can't say I was wildly impressed by this short book, but she is a former officer and did attempt an investigation of the accident:

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Assassination-Eyewitness-Conspiracy-Bowers/dp/1480803359

This site, with the unpromising name of "Conspiracy Dossiers," has some photos of the supposed crash site, and some reasonably intelligent discussion:

https://conspiracydossiers.com/2024/04/22/lee-bowers/

Yes, he was a fairly important figure in the JFKA. Yes, his one-vehicle accident three years later was odd. Any connection? Highly unlikely.

There is nothing suspicious about Lee Bowers death. He apparently fell asleep at the wheel and was unfortunate to do so as he was approaching an overpass supported by a concrete abutment. People falling asleep at the wheel is hardly an unheard of occurrence. It happened to me once. I had just stopped for lunch along the Oregon coast and had turned inland and was going up over the mountain range. Shortly after doing so, I began to get drowsy. It was a two lane highway and the shoulder was only a half a car wide so pulling off to the side was not an option. I made the decision I was going to pull off at the first opportunity. I didn't make it. The next thing I knew my rental car was plowing through some brush and running through a ditch off the side of the road. I was very lucky in that I was uninjured. Couldn't say the same for the rental car. I went off the side of the road on a left curve. Had it been a right hand curve, I likely would have gone left of center into oncoming traffic. I tore up a tire but was able swap the spare and the car was drivable. About a mile ahead of where I went off the road, there was a post office and a general store that I could have pulled off at and taken a nap. So I was both unlucky that I didn't make it another mile before nodding off but very lucky that only the car was damaged. It could have been much worse.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Benjamin Cole on May 27, 2026, 01:51:43 PM
Thanks for posting.

Yes, who knows about the mysterious cars driving in and out the railroad parking lot, probably nothing.

The important part of this interview, captured on film (~5:55 forward) is Lee Bowers describing the cadence of shots. The "bang....bang-bang" cadence. Bowers knock-knocking on the table is far too rapid for shots from a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle (the M-C). 

Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman also said the second two shot reports were "almost simultaneous," and Secret Service man Kellerman said the shots arrived in a "flurry," while Gov JBC said he thought the shots were fired from an "automatic." Some of these guys were veterans, and other law enforcement officials---people familiar with gunshots.

This all lines up with JBC being shot ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313---as it appears on the Z-film.

The LNT SBT theories do require some suspensions of disbelief. 
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 27, 2026, 01:59:21 PM
Thanks for posting.

Yes, who knows about the mysterious cars driving in and out the railroad parking lot, probably nothing.

The important part of this interview, captured on film (~5:55 forward) is Lee Bowers describing the cadence of shots. The "bang....bang-bang" cadence. Bowers knock-knocking on the table is far too rapid for shots from a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle (the M-C). 

Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman also said the second two shot reports were "almost simultaneous," and Secret Service man Kellerman said the shots arrived in a "flurry," while Gov JBC said he thought the shots were fired from an "automatic." Some of these guys were veterans, and other law enforcement officials---people familiar with gunshots.

This all lines up with JBC being shot ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313---as it appears on the Z-film.

The LNT SBT theories do require some suspensions of disbelief.

   "POW.......POW/POW"! This is how an adult Amos Euins described the shots on Max Holland's "The Lost Bullet". Euins even manually demonstrated the cadence of the shots as he judo chopped down on the pedestal he hid behind on 11/22/63.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: John Corbett on May 27, 2026, 04:10:30 PM
Thanks for posting.

Yes, who knows about the mysterious cars driving in and out the railroad parking lot, probably nothing.

The important part of this interview, captured on film (~5:55 forward) is Lee Bowers describing the cadence of shots. The "bang....bang-bang" cadence. Bowers knock-knocking on the table is far too rapid for shots from a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle (the M-C). 

Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman also said the second two shot reports were "almost simultaneous," and Secret Service man Kellerman said the shots arrived in a "flurry," while Gov JBC said he thought the shots were fired from an "automatic." Some of these guys were veterans, and other law enforcement officials---people familiar with gunshots.

If the weapon was an automatic, no one would have heard individual shots. Typically full-auto weapons have a rate of fire of 600 rounds a minute or faster. That's 10 rounds a second. People sometimes use the term automatic when referring to semi-autos, which fire just one bullet for every squeeze of the trigger.
Quote

This all lines up with JBC being shot ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313---as it appears on the Z-film.

Absolutely nothing lines up with JBC being shot at Z295. It is preposterous.
Quote


The LNT SBT theories do require some suspensions of disbelief.

If you are referring to Andrew Mason's SBT, I would agree with you.

The WC's SBT requires no such "suspension of belief". It is the result of knowledge of the evidence and sound rational analysis. It is the only explanation of the evidence that meets that criteria.



Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on May 27, 2026, 05:35:39 PM
Here are two views of the fence area from Bowers' location looking South.

The first is from Dale Myers' computer simulation. The second is a photo from Thompson's "Six Seconds in Dallas."

(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID13516791277/Key3pwj1il00m8r/Screenshot 2026-05-27 122425.jpg)


(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID13516791245/Keyhj52gt91b0jp/Screenshot 2026-05-27 122518.jpg)
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 27, 2026, 10:22:15 PM
Here's are two views of the fence area from Bowers' location looking South.

The first is from Dale Myers' computer simulation. The second is a photo from Thompson's "Six Seconds in Dallas."

(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID13516791277/Key3pwj1il00m8r/Screenshot 2026-05-27 122425.jpg)


(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID13516791245/Keyhj52gt91b0jp/Screenshot 2026-05-27 122518.jpg)

   Thompson's "Six Seconds...." with the photo above was published in 1967. I don't know when Thompson had that "Bowers View" photo taken. That photo looks nothing like that area above the E-W picket fence did on 11/22/63. Thompson's photo makes it look like the Black Forest was running along the E-W section of the picket fence. Not true. If you look at the Darnell Film, there is a guy that actually stops running and looks over the picket fence toward the parking lot. Based on the Thompson Photo, that guy could Not have looked over the fence without using a machete. The Thompson photo misrepresents what the area above the picket fence looked like on 11/22/63. 
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Benjamin Cole on May 28, 2026, 02:40:14 AM
JC:

re: Gov. JBC's comments.

JBC and wife were pretty steady on the  "first shot hit JFK, second hit JBC, third hit JFK." They were close-up witnesses, and both seemed sound of mind on 11.22 and succeeding dates.

It is curious that JBC, before both the WC and HSCA, described the bullets entering the cab of the limo with such rapidity, as if from an "automatic" rifle. This matches Kellerman's observation about a "flurry" of shots, which he then, under WC questioning, somewhat narrowed down to two shots in rapid succession.

I have wondered if JBC meant a "semi-automatic" rifle, but did not distinguish between a semi-automatic and an automatic rifle, or an automatic rifle, locked in semi-automatic mode (many automatic rifles can be "toggled" into semi-automatic mode, or one shot per squeeze of the trigger).

My take is JBC meant an automatic rifle, toggled into semi-automatic mode. The second and third shots entered the cab too rapidly to have been issued by a lone gunsel with a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle.

Bowers' quick second and third knocks on the table, seen in video above, are yet another example of how most witnesses recognized the sequence or cadence of shots.

The SBT LNT theories require more suspension of disbelief that I can muster.

But each to his own, caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusion.

 

Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 28, 2026, 01:26:30 PM
Thanks for posting.

Yes, who knows about the mysterious cars driving in and out the railroad parking lot, probably nothing.

The important part of this interview, captured on film (~5:55 forward) is Lee Bowers describing the cadence of shots. The "bang....bang-bang" cadence. Bowers knock-knocking on the table is far too rapid for shots from a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle (the M-C). 

Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman also said the second two shot reports were "almost simultaneous," and Secret Service man Kellerman said the shots arrived in a "flurry," while Gov JBC said he thought the shots were fired from an "automatic." Some of these guys were veterans, and other law enforcement officials---people familiar with gunshots.

This all lines up with JBC being shot ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313---as it appears on the Z-film.

The LNT SBT theories do require some suspensions of disbelief.

On the other hand, Bowers' recollections did get "better" (CT-wise) with time. His original affidavit said "at least three shots very close together." https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337259/m1/1/, https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/. At the WC, it was "One, then a slight pause, then two very close together." Once a witness was in the slimy grip of Mark Lane, all bets are off. It would have been nice if the FBI/WC had really nailed down what the witnesses who said the second and third (or first and second!) shots were "much closer together" really meant. In any of the three-shot scenarios, they were indeed closer together but scarcely simultaneous. Did those witnesses who described them as much closer together (or "bang bang") mean several seconds or no gap at all? Did any of those witnesses describe seeing those two "much closer together" shots strike JFK/JBC?
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on May 28, 2026, 02:10:17 PM
WC apologists have never been able to offer a logical, credible explanation for Bowers' account of the three cars that clearly did a recon of the area behind the grassy knoll 10-35 minutes before the shooting. Lone-gunman theorists have offered two explanations for Bowers' account: (1) he was lying, and (2) the cars were just looking for a place to park.

The claim that he was lying does not deserve further comment.

So what about the claim that the cars were merely looking for a parking spot?

If the cars were looking for a parking space, why did they drive around in the small parking lot for several minutes? They would have been able to see whether there was a parking space in 20-30 seconds. I've been in that parking lot. It's quite small. Photos of the parking lot in 1963 show just how small it was. It was a parking lot for railroad employees and had railroad tracks running through it. Also, that area had been sealed off by the police since around 10:00 AM.

The first car crossed the railroad tracks, circled the area in front of the tower, and circled the area to the west of the tower. The second car spent 3-4 minutes slowly cruising around in the small parking lot and drove right next to Bowers' tower, and Bowers told the WC the driver appeared to be talking into a radio mike while he was driving. The third car spent even more time in the small parking lot than the first two cars. This doesn't sound like cars that were just looking for a parking space.

Before 11/22, Bowers had seen many cars enter the parking lot to find a parking space. Bowers noticed the three probing cars because they didn't behave like cars that were just looking for a parking place. No one got out of the cars to head toward the motorcade. Anyone who wanted parking to go see the motorcade would have gone to the large parking lot just north of Bowers' tower.

The cars that Bowers saw were clearly doing a recon of the area behind the knoll. It makes perfect sense that they would scout that area carefully before the motorcade arrived. The fact that one of the drivers appeared to be talking into a radio mike indicates this was a coordinated recon to ensure the grassy knoll team was safe.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Tommy Shanks on May 28, 2026, 02:18:14 PM
Fun to see Michael T. Griffith back here with his usual conspiracy baloney about "recon cars" behind the grassy knoll...
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 28, 2026, 02:34:58 PM
Fun to see Michael T. Griffith back here with his usual conspiracy baloney about "recon cars" behind the grassy knoll...

   SHANKS - Waiting on YOU to back up your claim of that Bogus Motorcycle Cop "mingling" inside Dealey Plaza with others. You like to Pop Off. Well how about you "back up" your claim?  Man Up, or Bow Out.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on May 28, 2026, 02:41:18 PM
Fun to see Michael T. Griffith back here with his usual conspiracy baloney about "recon cars" behind the grassy knoll...

Perhaps you would care to tell us what were those three cars doing cruising around the small parking lot behind the grassy knoll shortly before the assassination. Why would three cars "just happen" to cruise around that particular parking lot in three separate trips, with the first car arriving at 11:55, the second at 12:15, and the third at 12:20? Why was one of the driver's talking into a mic?

Just remember that your version of the assassination is accepted by only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the adults in the Western world.

You might pretend to believe that Bowers was either lying or that it is just a whopping, remarkable coincidence that three cars separately cruised around in the parking lot behind the knoll starting just 35 minutes before the shooting, but most people don't see a credible innocent explanation for the cars' actions.

 
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 28, 2026, 02:52:00 PM
Perhaps you would care to tell us what were those three cars doing cruising around the small parking lot behind the grassy knoll shortly before the assassination. Why would three cars "just happen" to cruise around that particular parking lot in three separate trips, with the first car arriving at 11:55, the second at 12:15, and the third at 12:20? Why was one of the driver's talking into a mic?

Just remember that your version of the assassination is accepted by only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the adults in the Western world.

You might pretend to believe that Bowers was either lying or that it is just a whopping, remarkable coincidence that three cars separately cruised around in the parking lot behind the knoll starting just 35 minutes before the shooting, but most people don't see a credible innocent explanation for the cars' actions.

   Like I said, the important part of the Bowers WC Testimony is his documenting the presence of a WHITE SHIRT wearing man down around the bottom of The Steps. And Bowers placed this White Shirt man with the Plaid Shirt man. The White Shirt Man can be seen for only a few frames on the NIX Film. He is running Up The Steps after the Kill Shot. I believe the Disappearance of the ORIGINAL Nix Film is connected to it showing this White Shirt Man.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on May 28, 2026, 03:34:24 PM
   Like I said, the important part of the Bowers WC Testimony is his documenting the presence of a WHITE SHIRT wearing man down around the bottom of The Steps. And Bowers placed this White Shirt man with the Plaid Shirt man. The White Shirt Man can be seen for only a few frames on the NIX Film. He is running Up The Steps after the Kill Shot. I believe the Disappearance of the ORIGINAL Nix Film is connected to it showing this White Shirt Man.

I agree that this is an important aspect of Bowers' statements. I think Bowers' account of the three-car recon of the grassy knoll parking lot is equally important as his account of the white-shirt man and the plaid-shirt man. I think both accounts are important.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 28, 2026, 03:42:56 PM
Perhaps you would care to tell us what were those three cars doing cruising around the small parking lot behind the grassy knoll shortly before the assassination. Why would three cars "just happen" to cruise around that particular parking lot in three separate trips, with the first car arriving at 11:55, the second at 12:15, and the third at 12:20? Why was one of the driver's talking into a mic?

Just remember that your version of the assassination is accepted by only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the adults in the Western world.

You might pretend to believe that Bowers was either lying or that it is just a whopping, remarkable coincidence that three cars separately cruised around in the parking lot behind the knoll starting just 35 minutes before the shooting, but most people don't see a credible innocent explanation for the cars' actions.

This is exactly what John C's thread (and my contribution) about CT "overthinking" is all about. One witness said he saw three cars. This is the reality, this and nothing more. His observations sound remarkably (suspiciously?) detailed for a railroad tower guy who was "busy" and had no reason to think there was any significance to these vehicles or that anything remarkable was going to happen at 12:30. Was he this observant every morning, every afternoon? No cars were observed between 11 AM and 11:55? None after 12:30? (I also love how, at the WC, he repeatedly referred to the cars as "probing" the area - does that sound like a typical witness' description of cars circling a parking area or someone who is already pretty deep into conspiracy-think?)

In conspiracy world, however, the cars were "clearly" on a JFKA "recon" mission. There can be no other explanation. For these to just be three cars unconnected to the JFKA would be a "whopping, remarkable coincidence." Of course, quite the opposite is true - for conspirators to send three separate cars to "case the joint" from 35 minutes before the JFKA to a mere 5 minutes before the JFKA would be a "whopping, remarkable" bit of Three Stooges lunacy. The conspiratorial plans were so iffy that three cars blatantly "casing the joint" in the last minutes were necessary? What the hell sense does that even make? NONE, other than "it sounds pretty dang conspiratorial, dude."

The second man "appeared to have a mic or telephone in the car." (At the WC, this became "or something that gave the appearance of that at least" and "he was holding something up to his mouth with one hand and he was driving with the other, and gave that appearance.") In conspiracy-think, he by God WAS holding a mic and transmitting up-to-date "recon" to ... well, I don't know who, probably the gunman preparing to assume his position? There can be no other explanation. He couldn't have been a reporter recording his impressions, just a clod eating a Hershey bar, perhaps someone connected with the railroad, or God knows what else. In 1963, both mobile phones and walkie-talkies were not in common use (the railroad being one notable exception) and were very heavy and bulky - but Bowers goes directly to this as his explanation for a guy "holding something up to his mouth" while driving with the other hand?

I would concede that Ball, fortunately for CTers, did a remarkably poor job of examining Bowers and should have grilled him on some of his statements.

FWIW:

In 1963, walkie-talkies were revolutionizing railroad operations by replacing traditional hand signals and lanterns for ground-to-crew coordination. Crews used rugged, vacuum-tube or early solid-state VHF radios (like Motorola's "Handie-Talkie" and the newly introduced HT-200) to safely manage switching in rail yards and communicate along the length of long trains

https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electronics-world/railroad-radio-electronics-world-august-1960.htm

I might add that they were not only in heavy use by train crews but by railroad yard personnel as well.

(https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electronics-world/images3/railroad-radio-electronics-world-august-1960-6_small.jpg)
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 28, 2026, 04:39:56 PM


    The claim is being made that Bowers was "busy" inside the railroad tower around 12:30 PM.  Bowers noted just the Opposite during his WC Testimony. Due to the soon arriving JFK Motorcade, there were No train cars running and the streets surrounding Dealey Plaza were blocked off. This meant No Cars were traveling down Elm St. This is why the 3 cars cruising around the railroad yard and near his 2 Story Railroad Tower stood out to Bowers.
    Bowers has all 3 cars cruising around the railroad yard between roughly 12:00 and 12:20. The real question here is where did these 3 cars go after they exited the railroad yard? ALL the streets inside Dealey Plaza were blocked for the arrival of JFK Motorcade. Where could those cars possibly go? This question, reported shots from the bushes, the "getaway" car, the 2 Guys walking toward the railroad yard, etc, etc, etc, exemplify why the Elm St Extension remains virgin ground in the Assassination of JFK.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: John Corbett on May 28, 2026, 05:39:59 PM
Perhaps you would care to tell us what were those three cars doing cruising around the small parking lot behind the grassy knoll shortly before the assassination. Why would three cars "just happen" to cruise around that particular parking lot in three separate trips, with the first car arriving at 11:55, the second at 12:15, and the third at 12:20? Why was one of the driver's talking into a mic?

Just remember that your version of the assassination is accepted by only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the adults in the Western world.

You might pretend to believe that Bowers was either lying or that it is just a whopping, remarkable coincidence that three cars separately cruised around in the parking lot behind the knoll starting just 35 minutes before the shooting, but most people don't see a credible innocent explanation for the cars' actions.

I believe Bowers. What I don't buy is your assumption those cars he saw had anything to do with the assassination. There are any number of possible reasons for those cars to have driven back there. It is customary for CTs to treat every unexplained event as evidence of a conspiracy even though they have no proof of it.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 28, 2026, 06:05:29 PM
Just for orientation, this video, by genial CTer Jessica Connell, nicely illustrates the Elm Street Extension and Bower's tower in relation to it. I find it distinctly odd that Conspirator Recon Vehicles would have used this unlikely route to "case the joint" within minutes of the JFKA. Of course, the entire notion of Conspirator Recon Vehicles is fundamentally absurd, but if we overlook that detail the absurdity is only increased, it seems to me, by having them using the Elm Street Extension to Nowhere.

Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on May 28, 2026, 08:12:49 PM
Just for orientation, this video, by genial CTer Jessica Connell, nicely illustrates the Elm Street Extension and Bower's tower in relation to it. I find it distinctly odd that Conspirator Recon Vehicles would have used this unlikely route to "case the joint" within minutes of the JFKA. Of course, the entire notion of Conspirator Recon Vehicles is fundamentally absurd, but if we overlook that detail the absurdity is only increased, it seems to me, by having them using the Elm Street Extension to Nowhere.


SMH. The extension road was not a road to "nowhere." You could use the road to enter and leave the railyard parking lot. The extension road would have been a perfectly reasonable way to enter and leave the parking lot. Have you ever been to Dealey Plaza? Have you ever studied a map of the plaza?

So are you saying the three cars "just happened" to appear to be reconning the area, that all three were merely "looking for a parking place"? Are you saying Bowers was just fabricating?

Did you actually watch the video? I ask because the video shows that Bowers would have had an excellent view of the parking lot.

You do not seem to have read Bowers' accounts.

Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 28, 2026, 09:26:42 PM
SMH. The extension road was not a road to "nowhere." You could use the road to enter and leave the railyard parking lot. The extension road would have been a perfectly reasonable way to enter and leave the parking lot. Have you ever been to Dealey Plaza? Have you ever studied a map of the plaza?

Yes, I have been to Dealey Plaza. Yes, I have studied maps of Dealey Plaza. In fact, I started a thread here about the parking area and Bowers' view, to wit: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4477.msg168316.html#msg168316. (Addition: I just reviewed that thread, which was predictably derailed by Royell's silliness. Michael posted his "reconning the area" claim there as the only reasonable explanation for the three cars observed by Bowers. Ho-hum, on it goes.)

Let's say our JFKA conspiracy has a gunman shooting from the picket fence or thereabouts. Less than a half hour before the assassination, we have three separate "recon" vehicles drive directly in front of the TSBD on the Elm Street Extension, through the restricted gate and around the railroad parking area in full view of Lee Bowers and anyone else in the area, including police, with one of the drivers openly speaking on a walkie-talkie. And we do this WHY? For WHAT PURPOSE?

Is our gunman hiding in a boxcar with a walkie-talkie, waiting to hear "It's a go, the coast is clear" or perhaps "Abort the mission, there are two goddamn little old ladies standing right behind the fence." He can't just see for himself if the coast is clear? He needs three recon vehicles staged ten minutes apart? Only to a 33rd-degree conspiracy wacko would this "recon" stuff make ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER. Yes, the Elm Street Extension would be a "perfectly reasonable" way to reach the railroad parking area, but that's not the issue; the issue is, for WHAT SANE PURPOSE would assassination conspirators want to do this? Take us through - PLEASE, TRY - exactly what a conspiracy would look like that requires three recon vehicles casing the area in the half hour before the assassination.

Because you are in the grip of conspiracy-think to a degree that borders on insanity, these vehicles simply MUST have some conspiracy-related purpose.

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So are you saying the three cars "just happened" to appear to be reconning the area, that all three were merely "looking for a parking place"? Are you saying Bowers was just fabricating?

My guess would be that, given the confusing layout of Elm Street and the Extension, the vehicles probably just blundered into the railroad parking lot and wondered how to get out. Or perhaps they intended to park but then realized it was a private lot. "Reconning the area" -  :D :D :D - is that what I do every time I hunt for a parking space at Walmart or blunder into a private lot and have to figure out how to exit? I am somewhat suspicious of the level of detail Bowers claimed to recall, but it's possible and he did provide most of it in his affidavit. He wasn't intrigued enough to keep watching (he said he didn't see what the third car finally did because he was "busy") and, despite all this activity, he saw nothing suggestive of a gunman until Mark Lane connected with him and his story unsurprisingly got "better."

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Did you actually watch the video? I ask because the video shows that Bowers would have had an excellent view of the parking lot.

You do not seem to have read Bowers' accounts.

Come on, booby. I posted the video after having previously started a thread about Bowers' view and have read and watched Bowers' accounts perhaps a hundred times over a period of many years. The difference is, I read and watch with a clear and rational mind and not one predisposed to find evidence of a conspiracy under every rock.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Lance Payette on May 28, 2026, 11:39:02 PM
In a fit of near-terminal boredom, I reviewed a number of the many "Bowers" posts at the Ed Forum.

1. The entire transcript of Lane's interview with Bowers is available for a small fee from the Wisconsin Historical Society. Bowers specifically told Lane that he saw no accomplices on his side of the fence. Lane conveniently omitted this.

2. Ed Forum members expressed surprising skepticism about Bowers' credibility. Not that he was lying, but that he was conflating what he had actually seen and what he had later heard. One pretty careful analysis of what he could actually see from his tower makes clear that he could not have seen some of what he described (nothing about the cars, which he clearly could have seen).

3. There was, of course, speculation that Bowers himself was part of the conspiracy - a "lookout" of some sort.

4. Steve Thomas identified that the two cars with black-on-white out of state plates and Goldwater stickers had to be from Virginia. Langley, the CIA headquarters, is in Virginia. Case closed.

5. The following compilation was attributed to Matt Douthit:

* Researcher David Murph interviewed Reverend Wilfred Bailey, Bowers’s minister. "Lee did discuss that day with me. He said he saw movement behind the fence. He believed something was going on, but he never got more specific than that. He did not share with me any more than he shared with the Warren Commission."

* New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison was approached by James R. Sterling, a friend and fellow employee of Bowers. Sterling said Bowers “...observed two men running from behind the fence. They ran up to a car parked behind the Pergola, opened the trunk and placed something in it and then closed the trunk. The two men then drove the car away in somewhat of a peculiar method.”

* Another friend of Bowers, Walter Rischel, came forward and revealed to reporter Morey Terry: “He said he saw a car pull up. Two men got out of the car, and they were carrying what appeared to be rifles. He said that one gunman apparently positioned himself either on their car or on a car. The other one I don’t recall where he said he was. He said he saw both men fire shots. He could tell by the puffs of smoke that it came from the rifles.” Terry: “You’re saying that Lee Bowers told you that he saw both men fire?” Rischel: “Yes, he did.”

* In addition, legendary Texas journalist Penn Jones Jr. said he also heard the complete Bowers story: “He said he saw gunmen firing at the President from their hidden position. He didn’t see all of them, but he saw two of them that were firing. At the President.”

* And finally, there is Olan Degaugh, Bowers’s boss. Researcher Debra Conway wrote: “I interviewed the supervisor for the railroad yard and Bowers’ boss's superior. He told us that Bowers told him and his direct boss that he did see the two men BEHIND THE FENCE and he thought at least one of them was shooting. He said he didn't go further with it because he was afraid. He didn't want his life threatened or ruined being the main witness against Lee Oswald being the lone shooter.” From Conway’s notes: “Degaugh felt Bowers never told the authorities about the men, the car, or what he saw these men doing immediately after the shooting because he did not want to be more involved in the assassination controversy.” A few years later, Conway re-interviewed Degaugh. “Degaugh said that Bowers told him that he saw someone running away. This person put something inside a car, get into the car and drive away. Degaugh said that Bowers told him it looked like a rifle.”

And on it goes.
Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: John Corbett on May 28, 2026, 11:47:27 PM
Isn't it strange that we have these hearsay accounts of what Bowers supposedly said, but never told the WC about it when he had the chance.

Mr. BALL - I believe you have talked this over with me before your deposition was taken, haven't we?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Is there anything that you told me that I haven't asked you about that you think of?
Mr. BOWERS - Nothing that I can recall.
Mr. BALL - You have told me all that you know about this, haven't you?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes; I believe that I have related everything which I have told the city police, and also told to the FBI.
Mr. BALL - And everything you told me before we started taking the deposition?
Mr. BOWERS - To my knowledge I can remember nothing else.

Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Benjamin Cole on May 29, 2026, 01:32:22 AM
LP-

Verily, there was a lack up of investigative follow-up on many credible witnesses who described the last two shots as nearly "simultaneous," such Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman, or Secret Service agent Kellerman, and several others.

Same, why did no one ever ask Gov JBC, "What do you mean, you were shot at by 'automatic' weapons? That is entirely inconsistent with what we theorize what happened, that a lone gunsel with a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle perped the JFKA."

I suspect JBC meant that the assassin(s) were armed with an automatic rifle, but toggled to one shot per trigger squeeze mode. But no one at either the WC or HSCA clarified that. By all accounts, JBC was a smart guy, head screwed on tight. Seems odd JBC would use the expression "automatic" rifle. Connally served in WWII on the flight deck of aircraft carriers, so I assume he had some sort of working knowledge of firearms. JBC is reported to have been an avid sport game hunter as well.

It requires a large suspension of disbelief to accept the LNT-SBT with a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle narrative.


Title: Re: Video: Lee Bowers Interview With Mark Lane
Post by: Royell Storing on May 29, 2026, 01:46:42 AM
LP-

Verily, there was a lack up of investigative follow-up on many credible witnesses who described the last two shots as nearly "simultaneous," such Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman, or Secret Service agent Kellerman, and several others.

Same, why did no one ever ask Gov JBC, "What do you mean, you were shot at by 'automatic' weapons? That is entirely inconsistent with what we theorize what happened, that a lone gunsel with a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle perped the JFKA."

I suspect JBC meant that the assassin(s) were armed with an automatic rifle, but toggled to one shot per trigger squeeze mode. But no one at either the WC or HSCA clarified that. By all accounts, JBC was a smart guy, head screwed on tight. Seems odd JBC would use the expression "automatic" rifle. Connally served in WWII on the flight deck of aircraft carriers, so I assume he had some sort of working knowledge of firearms. JBC is reported to have been an avid sport game hunter as well.

It requires a large suspension of disbelief to accept the LNT-SBT with a single-shot-per-bolt-action rifle narrative.

   This is exactly why the LN's Now claim 10+ seconds for the 3 shots to be fired. They know that WW 2 Bolt Action rifle just don't cut it. There's also the WC Testimony of ASAIC Kellerman claiming a "Flurry" of shells came into the car. That carcano rifle is incapable of sending a "flurry" of shells into the JFK Limo.