JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate => The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Benjamin Cole on May 20, 2026, 02:12:22 AM
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See memo below---
1. Part of the JFKA lore is that a JFKA suspect description went out on Dallas PD radio within moments of the assassination, that was identical to intel-state descriptions of LHO. This suggests the intel-state "planted" the radio-identification, as part of the larger Deep State JFKA plot.
But this memo below (dated 1/9/64) reports that DPD Inspector Sawyer (a senior DPD official) was told by a TSBD witness that he (the witness) had seen a white male approximately 30, slender, 5' 10," 165 "run" from the TSBD carrying a 30-30 or Winchester-type rifle, in the aftermath of the JFKA.
Sawyer called in the info and description to DPD dispatch--if this memo is correct, then Sawyer, and not the Deep State, was the source of the DPD radio LHO-ID.
Sawyer failed to get the witness' name and contact info, which seems like an improbable lapse, but perhaps Sawyer was justifiably concerned there might be armed suspects about yet who might inflict additional harm, and thought it best to secure the area first, and collect witnesses later.
2. A Winchester-type rifle is also what eyewitness Amos Euins somewhat hesitantly described as being fired from the TSBD6 sniper's nest.
3. Of course, this Sawyer report strains common sense in some regards---what assassin, in the near-immediate aftermath of the JFKA, would "run" from the TSBD, in public view, while obviously carrying a rifle?
4. Yet, sometimes ascribing logic to human behavior is not always judicious. People blunder, panic, make poor plans. And even the best laid plans of mice and men....perhaps the departing assassin, in his excitement, forgot to wear a trench-coat, but did not want to leave a traceable rifle inside the TSBD. The apparent assassin was reduced to making a run for it. Well, I have seen many a plan collapse too. Remember, whoever perped the JFKA had only three days to get ready, after the motorcade route was published on Nov. 19.
4. The date of the Sawyer memo is 1/9/64---that leans to making it a "real" memo, not some baloney ginned up for the record. That is to say, in January of 1964 the JFKA CT community hardly existed, and tracing the LHO DPD radio description back to the Deep State was not being done. There was no need in early 1964 to refute the "Deep State planted the LHO description" narrative.
I have reasonable doubts that a lone gunsel armed with a single shot per bolt action rifle accomplished the JFKA. Looks to me like Gov. JBC was shot ~Z-295. The WC LN narrative stretches credulity on several points, in its way to becoming terra incognita on a map of truth.
Interesting prospect: one JFKA sniper was armed with a Winchester, while LHO fired the M-C.
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4VPrPG3/Screen-Shot-2569-05-20-at-07-44-17.png)
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I see you started a thread about the Sawyer memo at the Ed Forum a year ago, which turned into an extended discussion: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/31442-alan-fords-sawyer-memo/.
I think Pat Speer's take on the memo is probably correct:
It's clear to me that Sawyer conflated what he heard from a number of witnesses. The general description matches Brennan's first day statements. The Winchester comes from Euins' recollection of the sounds made by the rifle. These witnesses were filmed and photographed talking to the police, moreover. Long story short, the search for a mystery witness based upon some inconsistencies is folly, much as the reliance upon Holmes' delayed recollection Oswald said he was upstairs (something seized upon by the Bugliosi crowd) is folly.
Larry Hancock noted that it would be very odd for a witness to describe the age, height and weight but say absolutely nothing about the clothing.
The only way anyone would legitimately describe a rifle as a Winchester would be by seeing a lever action. If Euins described it as a Winchester based on the sound, that would be completely irrelevant.
So now we have an assassination plot with two gunman in the TSBD and their weapons of choice are a Mannlicher-Carcano and a Winchester lever-action? And they are both white males of almost exactly the same age and size? And one leaves the rifle and runs down the stairwell while the other runs out the back entrance carrying his rifle in full view? Weird conspiracy.
Where did the 30-30 bullets go? Maybe the Winchester guy panicked and ran without firing?
As Jonathan Cohen noted on the Ed Forum thread, isn't this the standard CT modus operandi - i.e., take an obscure document citing "an unidentified individual" that no one has ever regarded as being of particular significance and declare it the "smoking gun" that "proves a conspiracy"?
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LP--
I thought Speer made a very large leap and assumption: That DPD Inspector Sawyer, a veteran officer, promoted to Inspector (and the DPD had civil service exams for hiring and promotion), made fundamental errors in calling in a lone witness statement.
I dismiss Speer's concerns as sheer speculation, lacking gravitas.
Hancock is correct as far as he goes. Yes, the eyewitness reporting to Sawyer should have noted the clothes of the man running out of the TSBD carrying a rifle. A cop might have, knowing that is ID-101. An ordinary witness might have seen the rifle and more or less focused on that.
That the Sawyer witness description roughly matched LHO, or any white-ish male between 5'6" and 6' in those non-fatso is normal days, does not worry me. So LHO's confederate was roughly same height and build.
You ask a tougher question, "So where did the Winchester slugs (likely .308) go?"
I will say this: Four DPD cops and detectives signed statements that they found a steel-jacketed slug at the Walker residence. When the FBI got the slug, it turned into a copper-jacketed slug, without the markings the DPD officers said they put on the slug.
CE-399's history is also curious.
The FBI may have leaned on the LN narrative a little too hard at times.
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I will say this: Four DPD cops and detectives signed statements that they found a steel-jacketed slug at the Walker residence. When the FBI got the slug, it turned into a copper-jacketed slug, without the markings the DPD officers said they put on the slug.
Like a dog with a bone!
Steve Roe did an excellent piece dealing with the somewhat-less-than-reasonable doubts expressed by you and Tom Gram about the Walker bullet.
Still Stuck on Steel (2023) by Steve Roe (https://steveroeconsulting.wixsite.com/website/post/still-stuck-on-steel)
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LP--
I thought Speer made a very large leap and assumption: That DPD Inspector Sawyer, a veteran officer, promoted to Inspector (and the DPD had civil service exams for hiring and promotion), made fundamental errors in calling in a lone witness statement.
I dismiss Speer's concerns as sheer speculation, lacking gravitas.
Hancock is correct as far as he goes. Yes, the eyewitness reporting to Sawyer should have noted the clothes of the man running out of the TSBD carrying a rifle. A cop might have, knowing that is ID-101. An ordinary witness might have seen the rifle and more or less focused on that.
That the Sawyer witness description roughly matched LHO, or any white-ish male between 5'6" and 6' in those non-fatso is normal days, does not worry me. So LHO's confederate was roughly same height and build.
You ask a tougher question, "So where did the Winchester slugs (likely .308) go?"
I will say this: Four DPD cops and detectives signed statements that they found a steel-jacketed slug at the Walker residence. When the FBI got the slug, it turned into a copper-jacketed slug, without the markings the DPD officers said they put on the slug.
CE-399's history is also curious.
The FBI may have leaned on the LN narrative a little too hard at times.
But wait: We don't know what Sawyer really said, do we? What you have posted is a January 1964 memo describing a telephone call from Malley to Shanklin describing what Batchelor told Drain about what Sawyer supposedly said an "unidentified individual" had told him.
In Sawyer's WC testimony, he said nothing about being told about a man running out the back with a rifle and seemed pretty vague and confused as to who had told him what: https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Sawyer.pdf.
So now, even though Belin asked Sawyer several open-ended questions ("Anything else you remember?") we must build into the equation that the WC "got to Sawyer" and made sure he didn't mention the man running out the back with a rifle.
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MU-
I stand by my statement.
The slug found in the Walker residence was described, in contemporary same-day official reports, as "steel jacketed" by two DPD officers and two DPD detectives, who recovered the bullet themselves and who were attending the most high-profile assassination attempt in Texas history (Walker being a national figure at that time).
This is a photo of CE-573 (see below), which the WC says the FBI says is the true Walker bullet recovered at the April crime scene, but which is the most obviously copper-jacketed bullet in all police annals.
I am an amateur plinker at best, and I even can tell instantly that CE-573 is a copper-jacketed slug, and almost certainly not the one recovered at the Walker residence.
I have reasonable doubts four DPD'ers would ID the CE-573 as a "steel-jacketed" slug. Cops know guns & ammo, and there were two detectives on the scene,
Last I heard, Steve Roe told the world he had dramatically uncovered an actual witness to the slug found in the Walker residence, thus incurring some rumors Roe was perhaps losing his marbles a bit.
Did Roe ever produce his witness?
(https://i.postimg.cc/CxBQ09kx/Screen-Shot-2569-05-20-at-20-25-52.png)
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LP--
I guess you missed this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/2St3bL1c/Screen-Shot-2569-05-20-at-20-44-36.png)
Sawyer confirmed to the WC the contents of the memo, and even answered why there was no clothing description.
How did you miss such an obvious part of the WC testimony?
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MU-
I stand by my statement.
The slug found in the Walker residence was described, in contemporary same-day official reports, as "steel jacketed" by two DPD officers and two DPD detectives, who recovered the bullet themselves and who were attending the most high-profile assassination attempt in Texas history (Walker being a national figure at that time).
This is a photo of CE-573 (see below), which the WC says the FBI says is the true Walker bullet recovered at the April crime scene, but which is the most obviously copper-jacketed bullet in all police annals.
I am an amateur plinker at best, and I even can tell instantly that CE-573 is a copper-jacketed slug, and almost certainly not the one recovered at the Walker residence.
I have reasonable doubts four DPD'ers would ID the CE-573 as a "steel-jacketed" slug. Cops know guns & ammo, and there were two detectives on the scene,
Well, I for one find your doubts somewhat less than reasonable.
Last I heard, Steve Roe told the world he had dramatically uncovered an actual witness to the slug found in the Walker residence, thus incurring some rumors Roe was perhaps losing his marbles a bit.
Did Roe ever produce his witness?
Losing his marbles? Hardly.
Steve is a fine researcher who has been kind enough to share certain information with me that he, out of privacy concerns, is unlikely to make public ‒ sorry (but not really).
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LP--
I guess you missed this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/2St3bL1c/Screen-Shot-2569-05-20-at-20-44-36.png)
Sawyer confirmed to the WC the contents of the memo, and even answered why there was no clothing description.
How did you miss such an obvious part of the WC testimony?
I "missed it" because I was looking for Sawyer saying ANYTHING about a witness who had seen a man running out the rear of the TSBD with a rifle in his hand. Did I miss that too? Did Sawyer just have a brain fart on that minor detail when he relayed the information?
This is what you call "confirming the WC the contents of the memo"?
Isn't it obvious that what Pat Speer says is correct - Sawyer is conflating Brennan and Euins? Where the "guy running out the rear of the TSBD" came from, we'll probably never know.
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While I am convinced Oswald took the shot at Walker, it is a moot question regarding whether he fired the shots that killed JFK. If the investigators had never connected Oswald to the Walker shooting, the case against him in the JFKA would be no less compelling. Oswald was the assassin and there is zero doubt about that. If someone want to make the case he had accomplices, show us your evidence.
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LP--
No, I do not think Pat Speer, 60 years after the fact, engaging in unfounded speculation, is more accurate about what Inspector Sawyer saw and did on 11.22 than Sawyer himself, as captured in the January memo and then in his testimony under oath to the WC.
WC'er Belin did not ask Sawyer about the man with the Winchester rifle, possibly as that was inconsistent with the LNT.
Belin's job was similar to that of a prosecuting attorney, to develop the strongest case possible against the LN defendant. We know what the WC's job was, as defined by LBJ. Come to a LN conclusion, not ties to Havana or Moscow.
It is public record that the 5' 10" 165 lbs white guy suspect description went out over DPD radio. Where did that description come from?
The CT community (and you?), contend it came from the Deep State. A planted description.
Sawyer says he phoned it in to DPD, based on what a witness told him. I lean towards Sawyer being truthful in this regard.
The witness who spoke the Sawyer may have been seeing things. Maybe not. No way to tell.
I have long puzzled how a lone gunsel with a single-shot per bolt action short rifle got off a shot at ~Z-295 and then at Z-313.
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LP--
No, I do not think Pat Speer, 60 years after the fact, engaging in unfounded speculation, is more accurate about what Inspector Sawyer saw and did on 11.22 than Sawyer himself, as captured in the January memo and then in his testimony under oath to the WC.
Ben, as collegially and respectfully as I can say this: It seems to me that you're digging in your heels on an issue that is a total loser.
The 1964 memo has essentially nothing to do with Sawyer. It is Shanklin telling Hoover what Malley told Shanklin that Batchelor had told Drain about what Sawyer supposedly was told by an unidentified individual. This sound suspiciously like the Telephone Game, in which "Shirley has a new poodle" becomes "Shirley shot her husband" by the fourth retelling in the chain. As far as I know, is this not the ONLY piece of evidence (to use the term loosely) that anyone reported a man with a rifle running out of the back of the TSBD?
Sawyer's WC testimony does not corroborate the memo AT ALL. He says nothing about the mystery man escaping the TSBD with a rifle. Nor, apparently, did he do so on 11-22 - to anyone. Doesn't this seem like a RATHER LARGE omission on his part? All he did at the WC was confirm the physical description he had phoned in.
WC'er Belin did not ask Sawyer about the man with the Winchester rifle, possibly as that was inconsistent with the LNT.
Belin's job was similar to that of a prosecuting attorney, to develop the strongest case possible against the LN defendant. We know what the WC's job was, as defined by LBJ. Come to a LN conclusion, not ties to Havana or Moscow.
So now you include in the equation that the WC "got to" Sawyer. Is that really how the WC transcript sounds? Sawyer was also informally interviewed by HSCA staff in 1978. Nothing about any mystery man here either: https://tangodown63.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/sawyer-hsca-1978.05.24.pdf.
It is public record that the 5' 10" 165 lbs white guy suspect description went out over DPD radio. Where did that description come from?
The CT community (and you?), contend it came from the Deep State. A planted description.
Sawyer says he phoned it in to DPD, based on what a witness told him. I lean towards Sawyer being truthful in this regard.
The witness who spoke the Sawyer may have been seeing things. Maybe not. No way to tell.
It clearly came from Brennan. Brennan was almost surely not in a position to provide such a detailed description, but he almost certainly did. This is an FBI report that summarizes what Sawyer said: https://tangodown63.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/fbi-105-82555-oswald-hq-file-section-224-excerpt.pdf.
For starters, there is nothing - zilch - about any mystery man running out of the back of the TSBD with a rifle.
Second, Sawyer says that when he got the physical description Forrest Sorrels was present. Sorrels was speaking to BRENNAN.
No, I don't believe the description was a plant. I think it's what Brennan told Sawyer and Sorrels. It's really just kind of a very generic description of a youngish, thinnish white guy.
I have extensive personal experience of people grossly overestimating the weight of thin white guys. When I was a serious runner, I carried 135-140 pounds on my 6-foot frame (now, alas, ballooned up to 160). People consistently estimated my weight at around 175. I was aghast. Fatties (i.e., most people) just have no clue as to what we ectomorphs actually weigh.
It seems to me this Sawyer stuff is going nowhere fast. One almost comical quadruple (or maybe quintuple) hearsay memo that apparently generated no further interest and is not backed up by anything Sawyer is known to actually have said becomes a "smoking gun."
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LP:
Evidently you contend you know more about Inspector Sawyer saw and did on 11.22 than Sawyer himself, and as he testified under oath to the WC.
Well, hubris is sometimes a trait of CT'ers and LNT'ers.
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Oh, dear me.
You mean you and Steve Roe have joined those other CT'ers, and some LNT'ers, who claim to have some sort of critical information that confirms their theories, but which they are unable to release to the public?
Shades of the Pierre Laffite datebook, and Leslie Sharp, and the Truth: Nazis waxed JFK and put Trump into power....
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LP:
Evidently you contend you know more about Inspector Sawyer saw and did on 11.22 than Sawyer himself, and as he testified under oath to the WC.
Well, hubris is sometimes a trait of CT'ers and LNT'ers.
Is this some game? Is deliberate obtuseness a new debating technique?
I don't have any problem at all with what Sawyer told the WC or with anything else that Sawyer ACTUALLY SAID. Neither I nor anyone else seems to know where the "Winchester" came from. Speculation is that Euins described the sound as being like an "automatic" rifle and that Sawyer or someone expanded this into a Winchester (not an automatic rifle!) because "Rifleman" was then extremely popular and opens with Chuck Connors firing his Winchester about 20 times in three seconds.
We have NO EVIDENCE AT ALL of Sawyer saying anything about a mystery man running from the rear of the TSBD with a rifle. The actual evidence - Sawyer's WC testimony and the FBI report I linked - is to the CONTRARY.
FWIW, Chuck's Winchester was not a 30-30 but a 44-40:
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In my quest, I reviewed the WC testimony of Sorrels, Brennan and Euins - really nothing helpful. Brennan and Euins both said "high-powered rifle." Nothing specifically suggesting a 30-30 or Winchester. Hard to believe Sawyer would just substitute that phrase for "high-powered rifle." And where did "carrying" come from? And then we have the fact that the rifle was omitted (I believe) from the description that was then transmitted more widely.
Brennan did say that he told Sawyer that those officers running toward the knoll and railroad yard were "running in the wrong direction." Could this be the source of confusion that the assassin was running out the rear of the TSBD?
I did discover at Ken Rahn's site a lengthy excerpt from Brennan's 1987 book, Eyewitness to History. https://kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Brennan/Brennan_book.html.
If we can believe him - a big if - he observed Oswald at considerable length before any shots were fired, so this could explain why he seemed to have a better description than we might expect. He also goes on at length about a mystery Oldsmobile with a white driver that was parked oddly and illegally on Houston Street near the side entrance at the rear of the TSBD before the JFKA. Even though it was parked oddly and illegally - and, Brennan obviously thinks, suspiciously - he saw a policeman approach the car and laugh with the driver. After the JFKA, Brennan immediately noticed the mystery car was gone.
One might think that this might account for the confusion about a mystery man with a rifle running from the rear of the TSBD - but, alas, Brennan never reported the illegally parked Oldsmobile.
Here is DVP's stuff on Brennan: https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/howard-brennan.html. He suggests Sawyer's conversation with Brennan had to be considerably after Sawyer's. However, the FBI report I linked seemed to have Sawyer saying Sorrels was present.
And on it goes. I see no basis for anyone, including Sawyer, actually having said a man was running from the rear of the TSBD with a Winchester. It all just sounds like understandable chaos and confusion.
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I doubt anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time around rifles could determine from sound alone whether a rifle was high powered or not. The first time I heard a gun fired was when I went to a Thanksgiving turkey shoot with my Dad. I still remember how I jumped when I first heard the crack of a rifle. They were firing a little old .22 LR. It sure sounded high powered to me.
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Mark is going to call me a dog with a bone next :D :D :D, but here's the latest ...
Reviewing the 2025 thread at the Ed Forum, I see the connection Ben is making. He is assuming that Sawyer’s WC testimony, in which he simply confirmed the physical description that he relayed, was referring to the citizen described in the 1/9/64 Airtel as having seen someone running from the TSBD with a rifle. (I was wrong in one statement above: The transmission to all units by Sgt. Henslee did refer to the suspect as “believed to be armed with a .30 caliber rifle.”) But as I have stated, the Airtel is not Sawyer speaking – it is a multiple-hearsay description of what Shanklin is telling Hoover that Malley told him that Batchelor told Drain as to what Sawyer had supposedly said (and we don’t know where Batchelor heard it). There is no compelling reason to make the connection Ben is making – i.e., that Sawyer at the WC was confirming the part about someone running from the TSBD with a rifle.
The provenance of the Airtel is odd. It stands alone, among many other documents, in FBI Oswald Headquarters File (105-82555), Section 64, page 117: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57753#relPageId=117.
At the 2025 thread, Steve Thomas provided further information (as previously gathered by Bill Simpich):
On January 19, 1964, Hoover responded to Rankin concerning the description of Oswald that was broadcast. This is in the same HQ File, page 109: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57753#relPageId=109. Hoover wrote that the DPD said that the description was “by an unidentified citizen who had observed an individual approximating Oswald’s description running from the Texas School Book Depository Building immediately after the assassination. Although this citizen was requested by Dallas authorities to proceed to the Sheriff’s Office for further questioning, he apparently never appeared as the Dallas Sheriff’s Office can locate no record on this citizen.” (How weird would that have been?)
Unless Hoover is just making stuff up to make the issue go away – entirely possible – it sounds as though he had at least a bit more information than was contained in the Airtel. Petrhaps there was a follow-up call that made clear there was nothing on whoever supposedly saw the man running from the TSBD.
On November 12, 1964 – after the WR had been issued – Hoover reiterated to Rankin that the information for the transmitted description came from an unidentified citizen and stated that he didn’t think further follow-up would be productive: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60311#relPageId=72. A follow-up letter from Rankin to Hoover refers to Hoover’s letter of November 12 and the desirability of nailing down the source of the description: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60312#relPageId=33. Simpich says there didn’t seem to be anything further.
At the WC, all that Sawyer could remember was that the information for the description came “mainly from one witness,” a “white man” who “wasn’t young” but “wasn’t old” and who “claimed to have seen the rifle barrel in the fifth or sixth floor of the building, and claimed to have been able to see the man up there.”
That’s Brennan.
My guess: The whole “man running from the rear of the TSBD with a rifle” is a red herring, all flowing from the multiple-hearsay 1/9/64 Airtel. It is inconceivable that if someone had actually said he had seen a man running from the rear of the TSBD with a rifle, Sawyer would have failed to immediately relay this critical information to anyone and would have simply said, “Go on down to the Sheriff’s Office and tell them your story, willya?” At the Ed Forum, however, the whole thing spiraled off into the conspiracy ozone.
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The phrase "Occam's razor" is a bit trite, but in this case...
Inspector Sawyer, evidently a man promoted through the ranks of the DPD, a department that used civil service exams, age 47 and thus not likely senile etc., testified under oath to Belin this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JhNVBSdg/Screen-Shot-2569-05-22-at-07-33-31.png)
Sawyer testified the witness said a white male was seen "carrying" a rifle, post JFKA. No clothing description. Sawyer called in the description. Seems clear enough.
The witness may have been unreliable, and the witness evidently then decided to not get further involved.
The word "carrying" does not describe what witnesses saw in the TSBD6 sniper window, which was a figure pointing a rifle towards the motorcade.
If I had seen figure in the TSBD6 window shooting in the direction of the motorcade, I would not say "the figure was 'carrying' a rifle."
I am not sure why, but many witnesses in Dallas back then seemed fearful of getting involved in the JFKA in any fashion. Other people are fearful of publicity or police, and dismissive of official forms and falderal. The witness may have thought, "I have discharged my civic duty, and the rest is up to them."
The most reasonable deduction is a contemporary 11.22 witness told the DPD they saw a white man, approx. 5' 10" 165 lbs, "carrying" a rifle in the aftermath of the JFKA, near or around the TSBD.
That is likely what happened.
Was the 11.22 witness accurate in his observations? Who knows?
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Was Sawyer's mysto witness accurate in his observations? Who knows? [paraphrased by "TG"]
Sawyer allegedly said that his nondescript, physically non-memorable Mysto Witness (apparently not hardhat-wearing Howard Brennan) told him the rifle-carrying person he saw was 5' 10" and weighed 165 lbs., which CIA-hating JFKA CT Bill Simpich took thirteen years ago to mean that said mysto witness was really a Deep State agent who was trying to blame the assassination on Oswald via a CIA op that involved a 5' 10" 165-lb Rand Corporation employee -- Robert Edward Webster -- who kinda looked like Oswald, who had defected in Russia right before Oswald did, and whose physical specifications some evil, evil Deep State actors in the FBI and CIA had . . . gasp . . . attached document-wise to 5' 9.5", 132-lb Oswald.
Or something like that.
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html#ftn5
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TG
You are correct, both CT'ers and LNT'ers bridle at the thought that Sawyer called in the "white man 5' 10" 165 lbs" JFKA suspect description.
CT'ers, as it has became canon that the CIA somehow planted that description.
LNT'ers, as it has become canon that only LHO was involved in the JFKA.
I think a witness told Inspector Sawyer that is what he (the witness saw), and Sawyer called it in. Simple.
---30---
In addition to your Bruce Solie CT's, are you now formulating a CT that Sawyer was part of DPD conspiracy to fabricate a witness, who gave them the "5'10" white male, 165, carrying a rifle" description?
CT'ers of the world, unite!
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In addition to your Bruce Solie CTs, ...
How does John M. Newman's and my idea that Nosenko-"clearing" Bruce Solie was a KGB mole in the CIA's mole-hunting Office of Security, that he betrayed Pyotor Popov and the U-2's secrets to the KGB in Washington, D.C., movie houses in January 1957, and that he sent (or duped his confidant, protege, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in October 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a (unbeknownst-to-Angleton and Oswald) planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA qualify as a "conspiracy theory"?
... are you now formulating a CT that Sawyer was part of DPD conspiracy to fabricate a witness, who gave them the "5'10" white male, 165, carrying a rifle" description?
Why?
Would you like for me to?
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TG-
The case against Bruce Solie is entirely based circumstantial evidence, and even there we hardly have a complete record.
There are no wiretaps, no confessions, no confirmed meetings between Solie and KGB'ers, etc. No records of financial inducement, or that Solie was blackmailed for being a homosexual, etc.
Solie was never put on trial, and is too dead now to mount a defense, or provide explanations or an alternative narrative.
Nor has anyone in the KGB ever said, "Yeah, Solie was one of ours."
You have CT against Solie, as does Newman.
I lean towards Solie being a KGB asset, but I recognize what I have is a suspicion, a CT, not a fact.
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TG-
The case against Bruce Solie is entirely based circumstantial evidence, and even there we hardly have a complete record.
There are no wiretaps, no confessions, no confirmed meetings between Solie and KGB'ers, etc. No records of financial inducement, or that Solie was blackmailed for being a homosexual, etc.
Solie was never put on trial, and is too dead now to mount a defense, or provide explanations or an alternative narrative.
Nor has anyone in the KGB ever said, "Yeah, Solie was one of ours."
You have CT against Solie, as does Newman.
I lean towards Solie being a KGB asset, but I recognize what I have is a suspicion, a CT, not a fact.
Lean towards?
Does "conspiracy theory" have the same connotation when applied to a CIA employee who conspired with the KGB to destroy the CIA and to further the goals of the Kremlin (but not to assassinate JFK) as it does when it's applied to someone who preaches that the Military Industrial Intelligence-Community Complex Deep State National Security State, perhaps in conjunction with your beloved MOSSAD, killed JFK?
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TG:
Your Solie-CT has more plausibility than other CTs, and LNT's.
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Your Solie-CT has more plausibility than other CTs and LNTs.
Gee, thanks.
All other, or just a few?
Regardless, I'll try to incorporate Castro's G2 and / or the Iranians into it for you.
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TG--
Larry Hancock thinks SAVAK may have been involved in the RFKA, manipulating Palestinian activists.
So far, no Iranians in the JFKA.
The IRGC has targeted Trump a few times.
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The IRGC has targeted Trump a few times.
How dare they!
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Larry Hancock thinks SAVAK may have been involved in the RFKA, manipulating Palestinian activists.
I'm guessing Hancock doesn't believe in the Single Bullet Hypothesis.
Pity that.
The IRGC has targeted Trump a few times.
How dare they do that to The Traitorous Orange Turd!!!
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The phrase "Occam's razor" is a bit trite, but in this case...
Inspector Sawyer, evidently a man promoted through the ranks of the DPD, a department that used civil service exams, age 47 and thus not likely senile etc., testified under oath to Belin this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JhNVBSdg/Screen-Shot-2569-05-22-at-07-33-31.png)
Sawyer testified the witness said a white male was seen "carrying" a rifle, post JFKA. No clothing description. Sawyer called in the description. Seems clear enough.
The witness may have been unreliable, and the witness evidently then decided to not get further involved.
The word "carrying" does not describe what witnesses saw in the TSBD6 sniper window, which was a figure pointing a rifle towards the motorcade.
If I had seen figure in the TSBD6 window shooting in the direction of the motorcade, I would not say "the figure was 'carrying' a rifle."
I am not sure why, but many witnesses in Dallas back then seemed fearful of getting involved in the JFKA in any fashion. Other people are fearful of publicity or police, and dismissive of official forms and falderal. The witness may have thought, "I have discharged my civic duty, and the rest is up to them."
The most reasonable deduction is a contemporary 11.22 witness told the DPD they saw a white man, approx. 5' 10" 165 lbs, "carrying" a rifle in the aftermath of the JFKA, near or around the TSBD.
That is likely what happened.
Was the 11.22 witness accurate in his observations? Who knows?
My simple answer to that is: Brennan said he saw a rifle. I don't think a DPD officer is going to assume the assassin left the building unarmed. That would be an assumption that could get his fellow officers killed. So because Oswald was seen with a rifle, Sawyer added "carrying a rifle." Pretty much the equivalent of the common "the suspect may be armed."
Sawyer said he relied "mainly on one witness" - and that was clearly Brennan. If he had relied on a second witness who said he saw someone running out the rear of the TSBD with a rifle, that surely would have been the primary witness. The omission of this witness would have been inexplicable.
Sawyer was 47 when he testified to the WC and thus only 61 when he spoke to the HSCA. I couldn't find an obituary. Once again we have one of these CT "smoking guns" that Sawyer apparently never said anything about at the time or ever again and none of the legions of CT "researchers" ever bothered to follow up on.