JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: John Corbett on May 05, 2026, 04:55:06 AM
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I still see people using the misnomer Mannlicher-Carcano to refer to Oswald's Carcano rifle. Carcano is a family of bolt action rifles designed by Italian gunmaker Salvatore Carcano in the late 19th century. Mannlicher refers to the feeding system that used an en bloc clip to load into the fixed magazine.
The following paragraph explains the various names used for these Carcano rifles.
"Although this rifle is often called "Mannlicher−Carcano", especially in American parlance, it was officially the Fucile Modello 1891 (Model 1891 rifle).[5] The "Mannlicher" title came from the en bloc loading clips system, having nothing to do with the action itself, which was a modified Gewehr 88 action (which itself was a combination of the action from the Mauser Model 1871 with the Mannlicher en bloc loading);[6] in Italy the rifle was commonly reported by army and civilian sources as "Carcano−Mannlicher" since the action engineer is usually named before the magazine designer's in Italian nomenclatures (like with Vetterli-Vitali and others)."
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Yes, "Mannlicher" refers to the loading clip.
Some contend LHO's Carcano was actually a "carbine" or "short rifle."
The "Carbine" Label: Because the Model 91/38 (the model LH actually received) was significantly shorter than the standard WWI-era long rifles (cut down from 780mm to 540mm barrels), it fits the general modern definition of a carbine—a shorter, lighter version of a standard rifle.
But when in Rome do as Romans do.
Everyone calls LHO's weapon a "Mannlicher Carcano rifle."
One can fight the tide...
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I just wish that the Carcano model 91/38 short rifle was not as popular as it has become as a collector’s gun. It has become way too expensive and hard to find for us regular folks.
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The FBI forearms experts pretty consistently used the term Mannlicher-Carcano, so it's in a lot of documents and not that easy to get rid of.
On a related note, the pronunciation of Carcano isn't necessarily as straightforward as one might think. I've always put the stress on the second syllable, i.e. Car-KAH-no, because that sounded the most Italian to me, but it seems putting it on the first syllable is actually correct.
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The FBI forearms experts --MU
I am not much of an expert on forearms, so I will defer to the FBI.
The CAR-ka-noe carbine!
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I just wish that the Carcano model 91/38 short rifle was not as popular as it has become as a collector’s gun. It has become way too expensive and hard to find for us regular folks.
I priced them online a few weeks ago. The carbines are selling in the $400-500 range which isn't a bad price. Good luck finding a short rifle. That is the one that collectors have bought up and seem to be hanging on to. Oswald ordered the carbine but Klein's had run out of them so they substituted the short rifle for that. I would bet that if one came on the market, the asking price would be at least double, maybe more. A lot of carbines are being sold as short rifles. The key is the barrel length. The carbine had a 17.5 inch barrel while the short rifle had a 21 inch barrel. All the Carcanos I've seen offered are 17.5 inch barrels if they barrel length is stated at all or are the long rifle. I've found a few listings for the short rifle but every one I checked indicated the rifle had been sold.
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The FBI forearms experts pretty consistently used the term Mannlicher-Carcano, so it's in a lot of documents and not that easy to get rid of.
On a related note, the pronunciation of Carcano isn't necessarily as straightforward as one might think. I've always put the stress on the second syllable, i.e. Car-KAH-no, because that sounded the most Italian to me, but it seems putting it on the first syllable is actually correct.
In the recently posted Nova program, Luke Haag pronounced it CAR-cun-no which I believe is correct. I've been pronouncing it wrong all these years too. I also learned that I have been misspelling the last name of Luke and Mike Haag for as long as I have written about them. I have spelled it Haas because that was a surname I was more familiar with.
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In the recently posted Nova program, Luke Haag pronounced it CAR-cun-no which I believe is correct. I've been pronouncing it wrong all these years too. I also learned that I have been misspelling the last name of Luke and Mike Haag for as long as I have written about them. I have spelled it Haas because that was a surname I was more familiar with.
I've heard a couple of native Italian speakers pronounce the name, and they always said it with the stress on the first syllable, "CAR-can-o."
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For what it's worth, I did find a Carcano short rifle for sale but in 7.35mm, not the 6.5mm of Oswald's rifle.
https://royaltigerimports.com/shop/c-grade-m38-carcano-short-rifle-cal-7-35x51/
There made be other differences as well. I found two listings for 6.5mm short rifles but both indicated they had been sold. I think someone is going to have to get lucky to find the same model or rifle as Oswald's because the few that come on the market seem to get bought very quickly.
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My Carcano is a 7.35. Finding ammunition is harder, but finding ammunition that is the correct diameter (0.268" vs 0.264" for the 6.5mm version) is much easier.
the 7.35mm rifle is identical to CE139 in every way except for the bore.
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My Carcano is a 7.35. Finding ammunition is harder, but finding ammunition that is the correct diameter (0.268" vs 0.264" for the 6.5mm version) is much easier.
the 7.35mm rifle is identical to CE139 in every way except for the bore.
If I could find a 6.5 short rifle at a reasonable cost, I might by one, but if I'm going to spend $500 on what would be a collector's item, I want it to be the same model as Oswald's. I can't think of a practical use I would have for such a rifle. I have better choices for home defense and I'm not a hunter. Even if I was, hunting with a rifle is prohibited in Ohio except for short range ammo, the kind typically used in handguns. Ohio deer hunters hunt with shotguns. There is a separate deer season a month later for hunting deer with primitive weapons, bows or muzzle loaders.
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MT-
You raise an arcane question. Was the ammo found in the TSBD6 0.268 or 0.264?
The gun boards say you get better results, accuracy wise, with the 0.268.
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I just found this listing for a Carcano short rifle.
https://collectorsfirearms.com/1111-italian-carcano-m38-short-6-5-carcano-r27052.html/
Unfortunately, it has already been sold. Asking price was $439.95. I would have thought it would have sold for more. I don't see a date for the sale. It appears to be the same model as what Oswald used. It does show that the "Oswald model" does occasionally become available if one keeps an eye out and gets lucky. Had I seen this ad before the rifle was sold, I would have been sorely tempted. I wonder how many of these are in private hands right now.
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I just found this listing for a Carcano short rifle.
https://collectorsfirearms.com/1111-italian-carcano-m38-short-6-5-carcano-r27052.html/
Unfortunately, it has already been sold. Asking price was $439.95. I would have thought it would have sold for more. I don't see a date for the sale. It appears to be the same model as what Oswald used. It does show that the "Oswald model" does occasionally become available if one keeps an eye out and gets lucky. Had I seen this ad before the rifle was sold, I would have been sorely tempted. I wonder how many of these are in private hands right now.
Yep, that’s getting into a reasonable price range. If it sold for that price anytime recently, it might be an indication that interest in the JFK assassination is declining substantially. At least we can hope these become more affordable for us regular folks.
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Yep, that’s getting into a reasonable price range. If it sold for that price anytime recently, it might be an indication that interest in the JFK assassination is declining substantially. At least we can hope these become more affordable for us regular folks.
I've seen several more websites that listed the Carcano short rifle in 6.5 but all had been sold and most don't indicate the selling price. I'm going to keep my eye out and hope to get lucky. If I see one listed for $400 or less, I'll probably buy it. If they are asking any more, I'll have to twist my own arm to talk myself into buying it.
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MT-
You raise an arcane question. Was the ammo found in the TSBD6 0.268 or 0.264?
The gun boards say you get better results, accuracy wise, with the 0.268.
The WC ammo was made to Italian military specification, so it's the correct 0.268" diameter.
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I've seen several more websites that listed the Carcano short rifle in 6.5 but all had been sold and most don't indicate the selling price. I'm going to keep my eye out and hope to get lucky. If I see one listed for $400 or less, I'll probably buy it. If they are asking any more, I'll have to twist my own arm to talk myself into buying it.
These days, it's going to be hard to find a 91/38 FC in good shape for less than $500. I spent about $650 to get my 7.35 a few years ago, though mine came well-restored well. The Ethioipian government has been periodically coughing up crates of old Carcanos held in it's arsenals in the past few years. However, I doubt they're in very good shape. But maybe you can find a good one in the dross.
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These days, it's going to be hard to find a 91/38 FC in good shape for less than $500. I spent about $650 to get my 7.35 a few years ago, though mine came well-restored well. The Ethioipian government has been periodically coughing up crates of old Carcanos held in it's arsenals in the past few years. However, I doubt they're in very good shape. But maybe you can find a good one in the dross.
I have a .30-06 and it has quite the recoil. After a range session with that, my right shoulder feels it for a day or so. I'm guessing the 7.35mm has a similar recoil. Does it have the same cartridge size as the 6.5mm Carcano.
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I have a .30-06 and it has quite the recoil. After a range session with that, my right shoulder feels it for a day or so. I'm guessing the 7.35mm has a similar recoil. Does it have the same cartridge size as the 6.5mm Carcano.
7.35 Carcano uses the same case as the 6.5 round, just necked up to hold the larger, pointier bullet. Recoil is relatively light compared to .30-06 (or 7.65 Mauser, for a more subject-specific comparison).
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I thought that Tomlinson said that CE 399 found on the gurney had a pointed head that of course would have been different from the rounded nose that was used of the so-called CE 399 that we have been shown for years .