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Johnson Did Not Rule Out A Conspiracy
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Who cares what LBJ thought. He was getting most of his information directly from Hoover and it is clear from their recorded conversations that Hoover was completely clueless about the details of the assassination.
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Who cares what LBJ thought. He was getting most of his information directly from Hoover and it is clear from their recorded conversations that Hoover was completely clueless about the details of the assassination.
Try thinking before you write something as stupid as this.
You rely on the WC findings, right?
The WC relied completely on Hoover's FBI for the bulk of the investigation. Everything went through Hoover so if he was completely clueless than so was the WC! :D
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Try thinking before you write something as stupid as this.
You rely on the WC findings, right?
The WC relied completely on Hoover's FBI for the bulk of the investigation. Everything went through Hoover so if he was completely clueless than so was the WC! :D
You're just trolling.
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DM--
Great clip, thanks for posting.
LBJ had reason, perhaps, for his qualms. After all, LBJ more or less told WC Warren that sidestepping a nuke war with Russia was Job 1.
For you younger readers the idea of a nuke war in 1963 was fresh and real---in 1962, some people thought it was 50/50 the US and Russia would have a nuke war (the CMC).
Here, LBJ seems to be hinting at Russia and Cuba.
BTW---the US Ambassador to Mexico, Thomas Mann, and the State Department staffer in Mexico Charles Thomas, both thought there was a lot to the Cuba-LHO connection, and they were both shut down, and both lost their jobs in short order.
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DM--
Great clip, thanks for posting.
LBJ had reason, perhaps, for his qualms. After all, LBJ more or less told WC Warren that sidestepping a nuke war with Russia was Job 1.
I must have missed that one. Do you have a source for that?
For you younger readers the idea of a nuke war in 1963 was fresh and real---in 1962, some people thought it was 50/50 the US and Russia would have a nuke war (the CMC).
Here, LBJ seems to be hinting at Russia and Cuba.
BTW---the US Ambassador to Mexico, Thomas Mann, and the State Department staffer in Mexico Charles Thomas, both thought there was a lot to the Cuba-LHO connection, and they were both shut down, and both lost their jobs in short order.
It's no secret LHO was trying to get a visa to Cuba while in Mexico City. There is no evidence that had anything to do with his assassination of JFK. How could anyone, Oswald included, have known that just a few months later Oswald would be working at a building overlooking a route JFK would be taking in a slow moving open top car?
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AI Overview
Yes, President Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ) strongly persuaded Chief Justice Earl Warren to head the commission investigating President John F. Kennedy's assassination by arguing that a thorough, trusted report was necessary to prevent a potential nuclear war with the Soviet Union or Cuba.
LBJ used this fear to overcome Warren's initial reluctance to serve, arguing it was a matter of national security and patriotism.
Key Details of the Conversation:The Fear of War: Newly released White House phone transcripts and accounts from Warren show that LBJ was deeply concerned that wild conspiracy theories or rumors suggesting Soviet or Cuban involvement in the assassination could escalate into a conflict."40 Million Americans":
In a telephone conversation with Senator Richard B. Russell, who was also reluctant to serve, LBJ stated that such a war could "kill 40 million Americans in an hour".
The Pressure on Warren: According to a 1972 interview with Earl Warren, LBJ invited him to the White House and argued that "conditions around the world were so bad at the moment that he thought it might even get us into a war — a nuclear war".
LBJ mentioned to Warren that he had received estimates from Defense Secretary Robert McNamara suggesting 60 million Americans could be killed in a nuclear attack.
The Goal: LBJ wanted to avoid a "three-ring circus" of multiple investigations and ensure that the public believed Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, thereby mitigating tensions with foreign powers.Earl Warren ultimately agreed to chair the commission, putting his concerns about the separation of powers aside to serve in what he saw as a moment of national crisis.
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AI Overview
Yes, President Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ) strongly persuaded Chief Justice Earl Warren to head the commission investigating President John F. Kennedy's assassination by arguing that a thorough, trusted report was necessary to prevent a potential nuclear war with the Soviet Union or Cuba.
LBJ used this fear to overcome Warren's initial reluctance to serve, arguing it was a matter of national security and patriotism.
Key Details of the Conversation:The Fear of War: Newly released White House phone transcripts and accounts from Warren show that LBJ was deeply concerned that wild conspiracy theories or rumors suggesting Soviet or Cuban involvement in the assassination could escalate into a conflict."40 Million Americans":
In a telephone conversation with Senator Richard B. Russell, who was also reluctant to serve, LBJ stated that such a war could "kill 40 million Americans in an hour".
The Pressure on Warren: According to a 1972 interview with Earl Warren, LBJ invited him to the White House and argued that "conditions around the world were so bad at the moment that he thought it might even get us into a war — a nuclear war".
LBJ mentioned to Warren that he had received estimates from Defense Secretary Robert McNamara suggesting 60 million Americans could be killed in a nuclear attack.
The Goal: LBJ wanted to avoid a "three-ring circus" of multiple investigations and ensure that the public believed Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, thereby mitigating tensions with foreign powers.Earl Warren ultimately agreed to chair the commission, putting his concerns about the separation of powers aside to serve in what he saw as a moment of national crisis.
You're using AI as I source? AI just collects its information from other websites and regurgitates them without vetting them. In another thread I wrote about trying to use AI to support a claim I had made earlier. AI confirmed what I had written. Then I looked a little closer and saw its source was www.jfkassassinationforum.com. IOW, it used my own words to confirm what I had written. Talk about circular logic.
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JC-
As a quick reply, AI is OK on certain well-known topics.
This reply sums up the situation.
LBJ wanted to avoid a nuke war.
There is also the Katzenbach memo.
That said, I have incurred some truly stupid answers on AI.
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JC-
As a quick reply, AI is OK on certain well-known topics.
This reply sums up the situation.
LBJ wanted to avoid a nuke war.
There is also the Katzenbach memo.
That said, I have incurred some truly stupid answers on AI.
The Katzenbach memo is usually quoted out of context. If one reads the entire memo, he is not asking the WC to engage in a cover up. By the time he wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion. He also believed Oswald had acted alone because they found no evidence he had any accomplices. He wanted the public to know what he already knew and he wrote the memo fully expecting that's what a fair investigation would find. He could have worded it a little better but I don't think he expected it would ever see the light of day. The staff lawyers who actually did much of the investigation to a man wanted to find evidence of a conspiracy because do so could jump start their careers. It was only after they came up empty that they were forced to conclude that Oswald had acted alone.
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By the time he wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion.
Garbage - It was written the day after Lee was murdered while he should've been protected by DPD.
...then was locked up until 1994. Do u just make stuff up?
Once again = two sides of your mouth...
Who cares what LBJ thought. He was getting most of his information directly from Hoover and it is clear from their recorded conversations that Hoover was completely clueless about the details of the assassination.
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"By the time he (Katzenbach) wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion.--JC
I agree with Michale Capasse on this one.
By Nov. 25 1963 there was no certainty about the scope and scale of the JFKA, in fact questions had just been raised by the unusual murder of LHO, suggestive of a plot to silence the one man who could squeal on confederates.
No one on Nov. 25 had done a substantial analysis of the Z-film, although some say the CIA had, and concluded there had been more than one shooter. Even if LHO had physically acted alone on Nov. 22, on Nov. 25 there was no way to ascertain if LHO had been financed, induced or guided by others.
LHO had evidently departed from TSBD6 unseen in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, meaning if he had a confederate, that individual could have also left the building unseen also.
LBJ did not want a nuke war. LBJ probably understood that elements within the KGB and G2 could have effected the JFKA without approval from higher-ups. Going to a nuke war over what some cast-off hotheads perped would have compounded the tragedy million-fold. Yet the public and military might howl for revenge, if it even appeared that KGB and G2 had a role in the JFKA.
LBJ probably made the right choice. Bury the JFKAC...better not to know.
Leads into LHO-Cuba on the JFKA were snuffed out.
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"By the time he (Katzenbach) wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion.--JC
I agree with Michale Capasse on this one.
By Nov. 25 1963 there was no certainty about the scope and scale of the JFKA, in fact questions had just been raised by the unusual murder of LHO, suggestive of a plot to silence the one man who could squeal on confederates.
No one on Nov. 25 had done a substantial analysis of the Z-film, although some say the CIA had, and concluded there had been more than one shooter. Even if LHO had physically acted alone on Nov. 22, on Nov. 25 there was no way to ascertain if LHO had been financed, induced or guided by others.
LHO had evidently departed from TSBD6 unseen in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, meaning if he had a confederate, that individual could have also left the building unseen also.
LBJ did not want a nuke war. LBJ probably understood that elements within the KGB and G2 could have effected the JFKA without approval from higher-ups. Going to a nuke war over what some cast-off hotheads perped would have compounded the tragedy million-fold. Yet the public and military might howl for revenge, if it even appeared that KGB and G2 had a role in the JFKA.
LBJ probably made the right choice. Bury the JFKAC...better not to know.
Leads into LHO-Cuba on the JFKA were snuffed out.
If they were snuffed out, how did you find out about them?
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TC-
There is literature available online now, that was not available in 1963-4. Information not available to the WC, or anyone, probably.
You can read James Woolsey's book, Operation Dragon: Inside the Kremlin's Secret War on America. I do not think the book is compelling, but it does raise issues. Woolsey is a former CIA director, so he has some street cred.
You are smart guy, so do a lot on online searches for the US Ambassador to Mexico, Thomas Mann, and the State Department staffer in Mexico Charles Thomas, and what happened to them re the JFKA. Basically, they both lost their careers for merely wanting to follow leads into Cuba. Not comforting.
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Gus Russo is a prominent investigative journalist and author who has specialized in the JFK assassination, specifically advocating for a theory involving Cuban intelligence (G2) and Lee Harvey Oswald.
His research in this area was featured in a 2006 German documentary and his later books.
Key Documentary: Rendezvous with Death: JFK & the Cuban Connection
Release/Background: This German documentary, released in 2006 (German title: Rendezvous mit dem Tod: Warum John F. Kennedy sterben musste), was written by Gus Russo and directed by filmmaker Wilfried Huismann.The G2 Theory: The film claims that the Cuban secret service (G2) organized the assassination of President Kennedy as retaliation for the Kennedy brothers' attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro (Operation Mongoose).
The G2 Theory: The film claims that the Cuban secret service (G2) organized the assassination of President Kennedy as retaliation for the Kennedy brothers' attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro (Operation Mongoose).
Oswald's Role: According to the documentary, Lee Harvey Oswald was an unstable, self-styled pro-Castro marxist who was "contracted" or encouraged to kill JFK by Cuban agents after he made contact with them in Mexico City.
Evidence Cited: The film features interviews with former Cuban G2 spies, KGB files, and archival research from Mexico. A key source was former Cuban G2 official Oscar Marino, who claimed Castro "got Kennedy before Kennedy could assassinate the Cuban leader".
Key Finding: Russo argues in the film that Oswald, while acting as the lone gunman, was encouraged by Cuban Intelligence, who viewed him as a "disposable" asset to protect Cuba.
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You can find the above film on Youtube. It is a fun film to watch anyway.
Re the Katzenbach memo?
I would find more comfort if the Katzenbach memo said something to the effect: "No matter where the chips fall, the most important client is Truth, and finding out, and then disclosing, everything about the JFKA."
Instead, on Nov. 25 1963 Katzenbach was concerned about how to sell the LN theory to the public.
I have reservations about the LN JFKA theory.
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TC-
There is literature available online now, that was not available in 1963-4. Information not available to the WC, or anyone, probably.
Oh. It's on the internet. Everybody knows you can't put things on the internet that aren't true.
You can read James Woolsey's book, Operation Dragon: Inside the Kremlin's Secret War on America. I do not think the book is compelling, but it does raise issues. Woolsey is a former CIA director, so he has some street cred.
A conspiracy book. Another unimpeachable source.
You are smart guy, so do a lot on online searches for the US Ambassador to Mexico, Thomas Mann, and the State Department staffer in Mexico Charles Thomas, and what happened to them re the JFKA. Basically, they both lost their careers for merely wanting to follow leads into Cuba. Not comforting.
I will never understand why anyone would think Oswald's Mexico City trip had any connection to the assassination. NOBODY could have known at that time that fate was going to deal Oswald a chance to assassinate JFK.
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Gus Russo is a prominent investigative journalist and author who has specialized in the JFK assassination, specifically advocating for a theory involving Cuban intelligence (G2) and Lee Harvey Oswald.
Jack Anderson was "a prominent investigative journalist" who steered me wrong back in the 1980s. Why should I trust journalists now?
His research in this area was featured in a 2006 German documentary and his later books.
Are you trying to make your sources sound credible. It's not working.
Key Documentary: Rendezvous with Death: JFK & the Cuban Connection
Release/Background: This German documentary, released in 2006 (German title: Rendezvous mit dem Tod: Warum John F. Kennedy sterben musste), was written by Gus Russo and directed by filmmaker Wilfried Huismann.The G2 Theory: The film claims that the Cuban secret service (G2) organized the assassination of President Kennedy as retaliation for the Kennedy brothers' attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro (Operation Mongoose).
The G2 Theory: The film claims that the Cuban secret service (G2) organized the assassination of President Kennedy as retaliation for the Kennedy brothers' attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro (Operation Mongoose).
Oswald's Role: According to the documentary, Lee Harvey Oswald was an unstable, self-styled pro-Castro marxist who was "contracted" or encouraged to kill JFK by Cuban agents after he made contact with them in Mexico City.
How did those agents know Oswald was going to be handed the opportunity to kill JFK?
Evidence Cited: The film features interviews with former Cuban G2 spies, KGB files, and archival research from Mexico. A key source was former Cuban G2 official Oscar Marino, who claimed Castro "got Kennedy before Kennedy could assassinate the Cuban leader".
How did Castro know Oswald was going to be handed the opportunity to kill JFK?
Key Finding: Russo argues in the film that Oswald, while acting as the lone gunman, was encouraged by Cuban Intelligence, who viewed him as a "disposable" asset to protect Cuba.
Same question as above?
---30---[/i]
You can find the above film on Youtube. It is a fun film to watch anyway.
I'll pass.
Re the Katzenbach memo?
I would find more comfort if the Katzenbach memo said something to the effect: "No matter where the chips fall, the most important client is Truth, and finding out, and then disclosing, everything about the JFKA."
Maybe he should have written something like:
"It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy’s Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now."
Oh, wait. He did.
Also, the memo was not made to the WC. It was sent to Bill Moyers. The memo was not the WC's marching orders as many CTs would have us believe.
Instead, on Nov. 25 1963 Katzenbach was concerned about how to sell the LN theory to the public.
I have reservations about the LN JFKA theory.
Your reservations are not a litmus test for the credibility of the WC's findings.
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He was getting most of his information directly from Hoover and it is clear from their recorded conversations that Hoover was completely clueless about the details of the assassination.
First you claim Hoover was clueless about the details of the assassination.
The Katzenbach memo is usually quoted out of context. If one reads the entire memo, he is not asking the WC to engage in a cover up. By the time he wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion.
Then came the excuse "they" had enough evidence gathered by 11/25.
Maybe he should have written something like:
"It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy’s Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now."
Oh, wait. He did.
Also, the memo was not made to the WC. It was sent to Bill Moyers. The memo was not the WC's marching orders as many CTs would have us believe.Your reservations are not a litmus test for the credibility of the WC's findings.
You went on to claim the memo is often quoted out of context by CTs (whatever that means) - then YOU quote the memo out of context. It is Hoover to Johnson, if you can't realize that, you're either naive or simply choose to be ignorant. You're a smart guy, so I would suggest the latter. Nobody said anything about marching orders to a WC that doesn't exist yet.
Thumb1: ...omt, statements off the top of your head, followed up with such lame excuses to cover, are not a good litmus test for your credibility.
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First you claim Hoover was clueless about the details of the assassination.
Have you listened to his taped conversations with LBJ? Hoover was clueless.
Then came the excuse "they" had enough evidence gathered by 11/25.
"They" were the DPD. They did turn over the investigation to the FBI but that doesn't mean it made it up the ladder to Hoover. His conversations with LBJ indicated he didn't have a grasp of some of the most basic facts.
You went on to claim the memo is often quoted out of context by CTs (whatever that means) - then YOU quote the memo out of context. It is Hoover to Johnson, if you can't realize that, you're either naive or simply choose to be ignorant. You're a smart guy, so I would suggest the latter. Nobody said anything about marching orders to a WC that doesn't exist yet.
The memo was from Katzenbach to Moyers. What the hell does that have to do with the conversations between Hoover and LBJ?
Thumb1: ...omt, statements off the top of your head, followed up with such lame excuses to cover, are not a good litmus test for your credibility.
Neither are your opinions.
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Have you listened to his taped conversations with LBJ? Hoover was clueless."They" were the DPD. They did turn over the investigation to the FBI but that doesn't mean it made it up the ladder to Hoover. His conversations with LBJ indicated he didn't have a grasp of some of the most basic facts.The memo was from Katzenbach to Moyers. What the hell does that have to do with the conversations between Hoover and LBJ?Neither are your opinions.
How do you go from this BS: ....
"By the time he wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion."
..to some phone conversation with Hoover?
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MC-
I concur with you---there was no way anyone could know on 11.25 if the suddenly assassinated LHO had any fellow conspirators, or others who manipulated or induced LHO.
LHO's assassination was sure suspicious, and Jack Ruby had connections to the Cuba scene.
In fact, LBJ stunted any investigation into LHO ties to G2'ers or KGB.
The LN CT was a necessity in 1963-4 Washington.
Who wanted a nuke war with Russia?
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MC-
I concur with you---there was no way anyone could know on 11.25 if the suddenly assassinated LHO had any fellow conspirators, or others who manipulated or induced LHO.
LHO's assassination was sure suspicious, and Jack Ruby had connections to the Cuba scene.
In fact, LBJ stunted any investigation into LHO ties to G2'ers or KGB.
How would you know that. Oh, that's right. You read it on the internet.
The LN CT was a necessity in 1963-4 Washington.
Who wanted a nuke war with Russia?
Keep your imagination churning.