JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on March 10, 2026, 11:58:57 AM
-
Did Austin Miller just see Steam?
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_c1b21c44e1cc44f9b52fdc2d5f07c0ff~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_292,h_349,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_c1b21c44e1cc44f9b52fdc2d5f07c0ff~mv2.png)
Austin Miller was another one of Mark Lane's witnesses who claimed to have seen smoke on the grassy knoll: (page 40 in Rush to Judgment)
Austin L. Miller stated in an affidavit on November 22, 'I saw something which I thought was smoke or steam coming from a group of trees north of Elm off the railroad tracks.' He was questioned for the first time by counsel for the Commission four and a half months after the assassination. The interview was a brief one; it lasted but a few minutes. Counsel did not ask about the smoke, and Miller was dismissed before he could mention the crucial observation contained in his affidavit.
Here is Austin Miller's statement to the Sheriff's department:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_f1b170d641c1439c8e8c0b4546ce5e57~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_426,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_f1b170d641c1439c8e8c0b4546ce5e57~mv2.png)
The smoke that Austin Miller saw came from the westernmost part of the grassy knoll which is not where conspiracy theorists claim the shots came from. And there was a steam pipe right in that vicinity -- notice that Miller said it could have been steam.
Gary Mack told Vincent Bugliosi that the steam pipe "started at the north end of the Triple Underpass and extended about thirty feet parallel to the railroad tracks”
And Dallas police officer Seymour Weitzman testified about the steam pipe:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_81b6f2ac72d84a38a671b6876c54a67a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_664,h_233,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_81b6f2ac72d84a38a671b6876c54a67a~mv2.jpg)
Austin Miller also talked to the FBI:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_e75a5ed6a7f944cebfde0e2f65cf1aca~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_624,h_969,al_c,q_90,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_e75a5ed6a7f944cebfde0e2f65cf1aca~mv2.png)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_e75a5ed6a7f944cebfde0e2f65cf1aca~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_624,h_969,al_c,q_90,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_e75a5ed6a7f944cebfde0e2f65cf1aca~mv2.png)
No mention of smoke or steam, but Miller does mention "powder dust spray" which might either have been brain/blood/scalp/skull matter from the head shot, or dust from a missed shot on the pavement.
Update
Robert Wagner, in his excellent book, JFK Assassinated, references this piece of testimony from Austin Miller:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_ad03a22313d341369fb2a8481d044686~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_108,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_ad03a22313d341369fb2a8481d044686~mv2.png)
-
why would there be steam?
-
Did you read my post.
Because there was a steampipe.
-
Did you read my post.
Because there was a steampipe.
where is a steam pipe?
:D...that could blow hot air over the grassy knoll?
(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/512120375/photo/dealey-plaza.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=gi&k=20&c=i3UR8nW0Yzyzibwp2Rbz4qJVnJ8BPFBgFii0VZ7k0Sk=)
Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas, USA, circa 1963.
-
where is a steam pipe?
Starting At Video Time 1.24
-
Starting At Video Time 1.24
Thank you. Was there as break in this steam line at 12:30p that blew a puff of air?
..and it smelled like gunpowder?
Senator Ralph Yarborough: Riding in the motorcade behind Vice President Lyndon Johnson, Senator Yarborough stated, "I smelled the gunpowder…. It clung to the car nearly all the way to the hospital".
Dave Powers and Kenneth O'Donnell: These Kennedy aides were in the motorcade and reported smelling gunpowder at street level near the rail yards.
Other Witnesses: Reports indicate that as many as 13 witnesses near the street, specifically around the Grassy Knoll and Triple Underpass, reported smelling gunpowder, which some interpreted as evidence of a shooter at street level.
Earle V. Brown: A Dallas police officer stationed on the Texas and Pacific Railroad overpass reported smelling gun smoke as the limousine passed beneath him.
-
I think we can all agree there is a difference between smoke and steam and how it disperses. Steam doesn't smell like gunpowder either.
-
Thank you. Was there as break in this steam line at 12:30p that blew a puff of air?
..and it smelled like gunpowder?
Senator Ralph Yarborough: Riding in the motorcade behind Vice President Lyndon Johnson, Senator Yarborough stated, "I smelled the gunpowder…. It clung to the car nearly all the way to the hospital".
Dave Powers and Kenneth O'Donnell: These Kennedy aides were in the motorcade and reported smelling gunpowder at street level near the rail yards.
Other Witnesses: Reports indicate that as many as 13 witnesses near the street, specifically around the Grassy Knoll and Triple Underpass, reported smelling gunpowder, which some interpreted as evidence of a shooter at street level.
Earle V. Brown: A Dallas police officer stationed on the Texas and Pacific Railroad overpass reported smelling gun smoke as the limousine passed beneath him.
Smelling gunpowder is not an indication of where the gunshots came from. Unless someone wants to argue that the shots were actually fired by someone on Elm St., we can conclude that the smell of gunpowder had traveled some distance from the source of the gunfire. That doesn't establish where the shots were fired from. Fortunately, we have ample evidence of for that. The shots were fired from the southeast corner window of the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository. There is no credible evidence of any shots fired from any other location.
-
Smelling gunpowder is not an indication of where the gunshots came from. Unless someone wants to argue that the shots were actually fired by someone on Elm St., we can conclude that the smell of gunpowder had traveled some distance from the source of the gunfire. That doesn't establish where the shots were fired from. Fortunately, we have ample evidence of for that. The shots were fired from the southeast corner window of the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository. There is no credible evidence of any shots fired from any other location.
:D we're talking about the smell of smoke that lingered in the air.
Unlike constant steam in a pressurized pipe that would dissipate
-
:D we're talking about the smell of smoke that lingered in the air.
Unlike constant steam in a pressurized pipe that would dissipate
Because when a gun fires, the smoke lingers in the same spot for hours, even days. Sometimes years! :D :D :D
-
Because when a gun fires, the smoke lingers in the same spot for hours, even days. Sometimes years! :D :D :D
Who said that?
How do u see steam from a pressurized pipeline?
-
Actually, S. M. Holland said the smoke lingered...and that is the exact word he used...
-
Starting At Video Time 1.24
Is it true, as Comrade Lane says near the end of the clip, that "The vast majority of witnesses who expressed an opinion as to the origin of the shots agreed with Mr. Holland that the shot did come from behind the fence"?
-
Who said that?
How do u see steam from a pressurized pipeline?
I'm being sarcastic. In my own experience, gunsmoke (which is mostly steam, anyway) dissipates almost instantaneously.
-
Actually, S. M. Holland said the smoke lingered...and that is the exact word he used...
Holland used both of the terms "Smoke" and "Steam"
Starting at 1.12
-
Actually, S. M. Holland said the smoke lingered...and that is the exact word he used...
That steam pipe is not close to the area of the picket fence that Skinny Holland said he saw smoke. Let's get that straight. I don't believe that Wiegman Film still frame shows smoke. But trying to attach that steam pipe to the Holland story is stretching things.
-
That steam pipe is not close to the area of the picket fence that Skinny Holland said he saw smoke. Let's get that straight. I don't believe that Wiegman Film still frame shows smoke. But trying to attach that steam pipe to the Holland story is stretching things.
You are right about Holland but some of the other supposed smoke witnesses placed the smoke closer to the steam pipe.
-
That steam pipe is very close to the grate. There are people claiming a shooter fired from the steam pipe area and then escaped by going down that grate/underground pipe. I don't believe that scenario, but claiming alleged smoke was steam only fuels this theory. I have never heard or read about steam actually leaking from that pipe. I understand they were in the process of moving that pipe, but claiming steam was leaking from it sounds as desperate as a possible shooter escaping via that grate. The Wiegman Film still frame to me, shows something high and close to the Triple Underpass. I think the, "tree leaves turning color", explanation does make sense. This does not address Holland's story, but it does put the steam pipe stuff to bed.